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| 01:21.44 | levi | It is quiet here. |
| 01:27.33 | Tene | Yep. |
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| 01:43.14 | levi | Where is everyone? |
| 01:53.01 | tensai | watching a retarded episode of Lost |
| 01:53.48 | levi | I saw one episode of that. Looked a little interesting, but not enough to make me want to watch it again. |
| 02:02.53 | tensai | tonight was a flashback episode |
| 02:04.56 | levi | The one I saw was mostly about the dude with all the knives and his history, and everyone thought he died when he went with a small group to find water. |
| 02:05.06 | levi | Lots of flashbacks in it. |
| 02:05.23 | levi | And hints at some sort of a scary creature. |
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| 03:18.30 | Hhhhh | hello |
| 03:30.13 | Hhhhh | hey guys, anybody knows about configuration for nForce chipsets? |
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| 03:57.45 | vontrapp | Hhhhh: is that from napolean dynamite? |
| 03:57.56 | vontrapp | i think it's been asked before but i don't remember |
| 03:58.34 | vontrapp | who here is stuck behind OCT? (off campus telecummunications) |
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| 04:02.10 | findlay | darn, I was hoping for a fake intellectual debate with sjansen |
| 04:02.23 | indessed | This place is dead, unfortunately. |
| 04:02.26 | indessed | Where is everybody? |
| 04:03.10 | findlay | oh yeah, Maquis isn't here, I guess that means we can party |
| 04:03.17 | indessed | can a char ever equal 0xff ? |
| 04:03.39 | Hhhhh | vontrapp: no, I just made it up |
| 04:03.41 | indessed | ah. never mind. i guess a char can't but an unsigned char can. |
| 04:03.42 | findlay | isn't that the same as 1111 1111 |
| 04:03.55 | findlay | yes, I think |
| 04:04.51 | indessed | So what's the purpose of a (signed) char, then? |
| 04:05.23 | findlay | in order to have signed numbers fit into it? |
| 04:05.46 | indessed | i thought chars were supposed to be characters, not numbers? |
| 04:06.14 | indessed | (you can still fit a signed number into a char anyway, you just have to cast it, right?) |
| 04:06.17 | findlay | not necessarily, a storage location is a storage location, you can access it however you want I think |
| 04:06.32 | findlay | char number = 5; |
| 04:06.52 | indessed | hm. so what happens if you do: |
| 04:06.52 | indessed | char number = 0xff; |
| 04:07.52 | indessed | hm. |
| 04:08.01 | indessed | char a = 0xff; unsigned char b = 0xff; |
| 04:08.14 | indessed | printf'em both and you get ffffffff and ff. |
| 04:08.18 | findlay | yes, you have to cast it as an int to print it at least |
| 04:08.35 | findlay | otherwise, operators work the same as ints |
| 04:08.53 | findlay | 2*number; // returns 10 |
| 04:09.30 | indessed | that's kind of bizarre. |
| 04:09.42 | indessed | i mean, not that it works that way, but that there's such a thing as a signed char at all. |
| 04:09.52 | findlay | just think of it as a 2 byte integer |
| 04:09.54 | indessed | why not just have a datatype called "really short int" instead? |
| 04:10.29 | findlay | this is not a satisfactory answer, but because when you print it it prints out a char |
| 04:10.38 | indessed | wait, "short int"s are 2 bytes ... |
| 04:10.43 | indessed | hmmmm. |
| 04:10.55 | findlay | indessed: depends on your archtecture |
| 04:11.09 | indessed | still quite strange. if you want to do arithmetic on something, seems like it should be a numeric datatype. |
| 04:11.21 | indessed | if you'd like it to print out as a char, just cast it as one later. |
| 04:11.32 | findlay | I don't think either the C/C++ standard has standard type sizes |
| 04:11.34 | indessed | Oh well. I guess somebody had a good reason for it :-) |
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| 04:22.21 | tensai | ~lart Hanuman |
| 04:23.28 | findlay | ibot: Haunmann aint even here |
| 04:23.39 | findlay | neither is Haunman |
| 04:24.00 | tensai | ~lart Rama |
| 04:25.43 | findlay | indessed: I think it would be more bizarre for 2*number not to return 10, or its ASCII equivalent |
| 04:26.12 | indessed | findlay: that's not what I think is bizarre, i think it's perfectly fine to say ('a' + 2) or similar |
| 04:26.40 | indessed | what I think is bizarre is that you could overflow at seven bits instead of eight bits where you'd expect it. |
| 04:28.09 | findlay | but wouldn't that be the same for any singed type? |
| 04:28.09 | indessed | right, it would, |
| 04:28.09 | indessed | but it doesn't seem to make sense for a character datatype. |
| 04:28.09 | indessed | (despite the fact that you could, if you felt so inclined, put numeric data in it.) |
| 04:30.26 | findlay | I think the idea for signed characters was to make them consistent with the other builtin data types |
| 04:31.05 | indessed | but why not just leave out signed characters altogether? |
| 04:31.14 | indessed | why have them? |
| 04:31.22 | indessed | why are they useful? |
| 04:31.36 | findlay | because it's aesthetic (: |
| 04:31.44 | indessed | heh. i guess :-) |
| 04:31.52 | findlay | it's aesthetic to have a symmetric system |
| 04:32.13 | findlay | there may be times when you need to use a char to store a signed number |
| 04:32.41 | indessed | if it's a number, shouldn't it be better (or more readably) stored in a numeric datatype? |
| 04:33.41 | indessed | Hm. This is quite fascinating. |
| 04:33.49 | findlay | well there are some places you may want to use just one byte (char) for an integer for space constraints or other reasons |
| 04:34.22 | findlay | a char is one byte, not two, I was wrong before |
| 04:34.53 | indessed | then why not have, like i said earlier, a "reallyshort int" datatype? |
| 04:35.02 | indessed | then it could be unsigned or signed and represent numerical data, |
| 04:35.18 | indessed | and char could be left undisturbed for characters :-) |
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| 04:36.06 | findlay | I guess you could fork C and have it that way if you wanted |
| 04:36.15 | indessed | Nah, I hate C too much ;-) |
| 04:36.35 | indessed | Anyone here done X11 programming before? |
| 04:36.50 | findlay | because it makes you feel clever to use a char to store an integer |
| 04:37.34 | findlay | because you're not 1334 until you've done so |
| 04:38.11 | indessed | i'm trying to get this program to send keypresses to X11 |
| 04:38.21 | indessed | but it appears as if X11 is buffering or something bizarro like that. |
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| 04:38.42 | findlay | indessed: ever looked at xev? |
| 04:39.06 | goozbach | emcnabb: around? |
| 04:39.13 | goozbach | sjansen: around? |
| 04:39.26 | goozbach | peregrine: around? |
| 04:39.45 | findlay | I'm here, I'm here!@!!!1 |
| 04:39.48 | indessed | findlay: yeah, but i'm looking for something a little more complex than xev |
| 04:40.17 | goozbach | findlay: unfortunatly I'm looking for a guru :) |
| 04:40.20 | findlay | indessed: it's what I thought of first, maybe you could look at its source (: |
| 04:40.49 | indessed | thanks for the idea :-) Right now I'm looking at the source to the function I'm using, |
| 04:40.52 | indessed | XTestFakeKeyEvent ... |
| 04:41.04 | indessed | it sends the keypresses, but only after I close the display, I think. |
| 04:41.12 | findlay | hmm |
| 04:41.29 | indessed | i'm wondering if there's some way to flush it without closing the display and reopening it again a bazillion times. |
| 04:41.34 | indessed | (not like it matters that much i suppose.) |
| 04:42.12 | findlay | I don't know what they really are, but isn't that the role of signal/slots? |
| 04:42.20 | indessed | no idea. |
| 04:44.30 | findlay | goozbach: how did you link my /. nick to me? |
| 04:47.02 | indessed | Hoorah! |
| 04:47.14 | indessed | A peek at xvkbd's source did the trick. |
| 04:47.24 | indessed | XFlush(Display*) |
| 04:47.27 | indessed | that's all it took :-) |
| 04:47.36 | findlay | told ya (: |
| 04:47.44 | findlay | oh |
| 04:48.03 | indessed | xvkbd, slightly different. |
| 04:48.13 | indessed | more like what i'm writing than xev, |
| 04:48.31 | indessed | i want something like xvkbd but that can be controlled with other things, like a remote control or a joystick. |
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| 04:48.43 | findlay | I knew all those X apps were good for something |
| 04:48.56 | indessed | just never knew what ;-) |
| 04:49.02 | findlay | indessed: why not use a toolkit? |
| 04:49.11 | indessed | what sort of toolkit? |
| 04:49.26 | findlay | a GUI tookkit |
| 04:49.48 | indessed | I don't want a gui, I just want to send keypresses to the current focused window. |
| 04:49.52 | indessed | have you ever used xvkbd? |
| 04:50.19 | findlay | briefly, in one or two short fits of simple amusement |
| 04:50.45 | indessed | basically imagine the virtual keyboard, but instead of having to click on the keys with the mouse, |
| 04:50.46 | goozbach | findlay: I think it was a friend of a friend thing |
| 04:50.59 | indessed | there's no gui, and you just use some other input source. |
| 04:51.29 | findlay | indessed: looks like it's something different than I was thinking of |
| 04:51.40 | indessed | yes, but still way cool :-) |
| 04:53.59 | findlay | indessed: so X is in charge of the keyboard? It's not handled directly through a kernel interface? |
| 04:54.30 | indessed | findlay: no, the keyboard still sends stuff through the kernel (or however linux handles it) |
| 04:54.44 | indessed | but then the kernel (or whatever) hands off the even to something else, which hands it off in turn to X, |
| 04:54.52 | indessed | which processes the event (i.e. sends it to whatever window). |
| 04:55.02 | findlay | I guess you could talk to it at the kernel level if you wanted |
| 04:55.13 | indessed | so XTestFakeKeyEvent (which is what xvkbd uses) just fakes the final hand-off to X |
| 04:55.28 | indessed | makes X think that it got a keyboard event from the kernel/whatever level is next lowest down. |
| 04:59.23 | goozbach | damn I shoulda gone to the hot tub tonight! |
| 04:59.26 | goozbach | all sorts of ladies just walked through the lobby |
| 04:59.43 | Tene | indessed: evrouter |
| 04:59.52 | indessed | Tene: huh? |
| 05:00.08 | Tene | crap, that's not the right name. |
| 05:01.02 | Tene | wait, yes it is |
| 05:01.04 | Tene | http://www.bedroomlan.org/~alexios/coding_evrouter.html |
| 05:03.05 | indessed | I actually don't need an event router, XTestFakeKeyEvent does exactly what I need. |
| 05:03.07 | indessed | Thanks though :-) |
| 05:03.57 | Tene | np |
| 05:04.13 | indessed | I'll have to take a look at the source to that though if I get stuck again. |
| 05:05.34 | Tene | indessed: this is an existing application, not a library. |
| 05:06.11 | indessed | Tene: right, I just meant i could take a look at the source to see how they do things (since it seems there is some overlap in what they're doing and what i want to do) |
| 05:06.18 | Tene | ahh |
| 05:06.23 | Tene | okay then. |
| 05:06.35 | Tene | good luck. |
| 05:06.42 | indessed | thanks :-) it's going quite well so far. |
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| 05:07.10 | levi | I just spent way too long trying to figure out how to do someone else's homework assignment. |
| 05:07.21 | indessed | lol. you're not a TA, are you? |
| 05:07.46 | findlay | heh, with the new kernel had to switch from /dev/input/mouse0 to /dev/misc/psaux |
| 05:07.46 | levi | No. Someone just came on #lisp and asked for some help, and I wanted to see if I could figure out how to do it. |
| 05:08.10 | indessed | see what happens when you hang out with those lispers? |
| 05:08.25 | indessed | oh, speaking of which, i was very disappointed with my CS prof today |
| 05:08.54 | levi | It was an interesting problem, though. You are given a lisp program, and you have to walk it to find all the function names in it that aren't user-defined. |
| 05:08.54 | indessed | he had a very good chance to point out that Lisp had garbage collection, and utterly failed to do so. |
| 05:09.13 | levi | indessed: What was the context? |
| 05:10.20 | indessed | cs 324, talking about how C and C++ don't provide any memory protection, |
| 05:10.31 | indessed | you can abuse malloc/free, memory leaks, nasty bugs, etc. |
| 05:10.58 | indessed | so on the lecture slides it says, "How can I deal with this?" and one of the options was "Program in Java, Lisp, or ML" |
| 05:11.27 | findlay | there are garbage collection schemes you can plug into C++ |
| 05:11.29 | indessed | He didn't even know what ML was, and his only comment to the other two was, "They have bounds checking" or some such nonsense. |
| 05:11.58 | levi | Heh. |
| 05:12.15 | levi | The Boehm GC actually seems to be included with g++. |
| 05:12.33 | levi | I want to learn ocaml eventually, too. |
| 05:12.45 | indessed | Anyway, perfect place to say, "Java and Lisp have automatic garbage collection so you don't have to worry [so much] about malloc/free stuff." |
| 05:13.05 | levi | ML also has automatic memory management. |
| 05:13.08 | indessed | At least he could have said that, much less "Lisp was the first to implement [a lot of this stuff]" |
| 05:13.16 | indessed | Well, yes, but he didn't know what that was :-) |
| 05:13.36 | indessed | (Somebody offered the helpful suggestion, "Machine Language?") |
| 05:14.04 | indessed | At any rate, I suppose his whole point is to tell us about how we have to understand assembly and machine code in order to program properly, |
| 05:14.13 | levi | This ML implementation looks like it does some interesting non-gc automatic memory management: http://www.it-c.dk/research/mlkit/ |
| 05:14.17 | indessed | so telling us about Lisp and so forth wouldn't exactly be beneficial to his cause :-) |
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| 05:15.27 | levi | Well, knowing assembly is still valuable when programming in Lisp. Common Lisp has a disassemble function with which you can examime the code the compiler has generated for you. |
| 05:16.10 | levi | You can make some type declarations and give some other compiler hints and see how they helped. |
| 05:17.00 | indessed | Man, does Firefox have [or have an extension to give you] a "trash" with all your recently closed browser windows? |
| 05:17.07 | indessed | It's stuff like this that still have me hooked on Opera. |
| 05:17.16 | levi | Opera is really nice that way. |
| 05:17.29 | findlay | indessed: what do you mean? |
| 05:17.38 | levi | Especially on my laptop with a dead battery. I can restore my browser state across accidental unplugs. :) |
| 05:17.53 | findlay | oh, like automatic bookmarks |
| 05:17.59 | indessed | findlay: with opera 8, there's a trashcan on the toolbar, |
| 05:18.05 | indessed | let's say I close a dozen tabs, |
| 05:18.14 | indessed | and I'm like, "oops, I didn't mean to close one of those," |
| 05:18.16 | findlay | that would be nice when you're opened to multiple sites simultaneously |
| 05:18.22 | scott_ | indessed: what it should do is have the history and order it by last closed |
| 05:18.31 | indessed | I can click on the trashcan and it creates a pull-down list ordered by last closed, |
| 05:18.35 | indessed | like scott_ says :-) |
| 05:18.47 | indessed | i just click on whichever one I want and it restores it lickety split. |
| 05:18.57 | scott_ | that would be very useful |
| 05:19.00 | indessed | (and because of opera's great caching system, barely noticeable delay) |
| 05:19.43 | indessed | okay, problem time for all you wizards out there ... |
| 05:19.46 | zombie-m | levi: SessionSaver is nice for re-opening tabs you had when you close FF (intentionally or otherwise) |
| 05:20.18 | levi | zombie-m: opera is also usably fast on my laptop, while firefox is not. |
| 05:20.45 | indessed | I have a list of two or three-digit strings that I want to map to characters, and I get the two/three digit strings one at a time. |
| 05:21.05 | indessed | So for example, "15" might map to "a" |
| 05:21.09 | scott_ | I haven't used it much yet but it should be nice for storing information I always go back to pages to check for |
| 05:21.16 | indessed | and "125" might map to "t". |
| 05:21.33 | indessed | what would be the best/easiest way to do this in C? |
| 05:21.51 | indessed | all the strings end with "5", so I wouldn't have to store that. |
| 05:22.01 | findlay | indessed: cast your chars as ints |
| 05:22.12 | findlay | automatic mapping |
| 05:22.33 | indessed | findlay: and then use #define statements or what? |
| 05:23.03 | indessed | (i.e. to get 12 -> "t" and 13 -> "n" and so forth) |
| 05:23.17 | findlay | char ch = 'a'; int i = ch; |
| 05:24.04 | indessed | no, see, what I'm going to get is, say, a "1". I don't want to do anything with that until I get a "5", so I just save it away. |
| 05:24.15 | indessed | So next I get a "3", save that away too, so now I have "13". |
| 05:24.29 | indessed | Next I get a "5", so I want to look up "13" in my list and see if I've got a mapping for it, |
| 05:24.38 | indessed | yup I do, it maps to "n", so I want to return "n". |
| 05:25.37 | Tene | atoi |
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| 05:26.12 | levi | indessed: Are the numbers sparse or grouped together? |
| 05:26.22 | indessed | levi: not sure what you mean? |
| 05:27.12 | indessed | they just come from a function. imagine: |
| 05:27.12 | indessed | while ( key = read_key() ) { /* do stuff */ } |
| 05:27.36 | indessed | (where read_key returns an int between 1-9) |
| 05:27.41 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:27.46 | levi | indessed: If you plotted the numeric codes along a line, what would it look like? Are they all grouped together, or spread out? |
| 05:28.13 | indessed | hm. i dunno. good question. |
| 05:28.20 | levi | indessed: And do you want to optimize for space, search time, or what? |
| 05:28.35 | indessed | levi: don't care. doesn't have to be particularly fast or anything. |
| 05:28.38 | findlay | if he's only got 10 should it matter? |
| 05:28.40 | indessed | optimize for ease of code-writing :-) |
| 05:29.39 | indessed | Here's half my list: |
| 05:29.39 | indessed | 1 12 13 14 17 2 21 23 31 32 3 36 39 |
| 05:29.58 | indessed | Or maybe a fourth of it. |
| 05:30.18 | indessed | (you can imagine those terminated by 5s if you like) |
| 05:30.25 | levi | Easiest would be to create an array of pointers to char the size of your largest number. Do an atoi and look it up in the array. |
| 05:30.40 | findlay | symbol table |
| 05:30.48 | indessed | cool, and just forget about the wasted space for the numbers that aren't used? |
| 05:30.53 | levi | Yeah. |
| 05:30.57 | indessed | peachy. |
| 05:31.01 | indessed | I can live with that. |
| 05:31.19 | levi | It's no worse than a hash table. |
| 05:32.30 | indessed | hm. crap. how do I define an array like that? |
| 05:32.57 | indessed | foo = array(12 => "a", 13 => "n" ... ); |
| 05:33.40 | findlay | char* array[256] = {0}; |
| 05:33.59 | findlay | oh |
| 05:34.34 | indessed | oh, wait, I can just do: |
| 05:34.34 | indessed | char map { 'a' /*0*/, 'n' /*1*/ }; |
| 05:34.39 | indessed | thx all :-) |
| 05:34.47 | indessed | I really do know how to program, I promise! |
| 05:34.52 | indessed | (Despite being in CS 324.) |
| 05:35.08 | findlay | precisely |
| 05:36.04 | levi | indessed: Multi-digit numbers may throw you off there. |
| 05:36.45 | indessed | levi: nah, my array will just be size 100 |
| 05:38.31 | levi | Hmm. It's late and I was not thinking straight. |
| 05:38.49 | levi | You are mapping a 1-2 digit number to a single character? |
| 05:38.58 | indessed | levi: yup. |
| 05:40.09 | indessed | Is there a "more better way"? |
| 05:40.17 | levi | Okay. You can make a function that sets up the array for you. char array[100]; array[12] = 'a'; array[13] = 'n'; etc. |
| 05:40.41 | indessed | hm. that might be easier. |
| 05:42.13 | levi | Just pass the address of the array into the initializer function and have it add in all the mappings. |
| 05:42.22 | indessed | bingo :-) |
| 05:44.56 | levi | I don't really like C. But it pays my bills. |
| 05:45.13 | indessed | I really don't like C either. But occasionally it's the best tool for the job :-) |
| 05:45.18 | indessed | (Unfortunately. Heh.) |
| 05:46.59 | levi | I spend a lot of time writing things that should really be in a language's standard library. |
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| 10:32.42 | bonez39 | anyone ? |
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| 13:37.44 | dataw0lf|w | g'morning gents. |
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| 13:52.57 | Uncle_Jesse | morning |
| 13:54.10 | Uncle_Jesse | Well, it took 3 hours of trying to connect my cable modem last night with Comcast before I decided I'm sticking with my DSL |
| 13:54.22 | Uncle_Jesse | This is the second time it took that long with them |
| 13:54.31 | Uncle_Jesse | Their service is horrible |
| 13:58.13 | dataw0lf|w | anyone here want to weigh in on iRiver support (specifically the H320) with Linux ? |
| 14:01.13 | dataw0lf|w | and does anyone have any advice on a decent digital camera? |
| 14:03.40 | *** join/#utah RyanBE (~ryan@001-720-458.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 14:06.33 | Uncle_Jesse | dataw0lf|w: go for the Canon 20D |
| 14:06.58 | Uncle_Jesse | If you don't like SLR there's a 7MP mini canon that's really good |
| 14:10.19 | dataw0lf|w | the 20D is a bit too expensive for my tastes. |
| 14:11.08 | dataw0lf|w | with the 7mp, you're talking about the PowerShot? |
| 14:12.17 | RyanBE | I have an older 1.2MP PowerShot, it's been very good, for a lot of years. |
| 14:12.24 | RyanBE | or 2.1, I can't remember |
| 14:12.57 | RyanBE | small enough that we take it pretty much everywhere, and take a lot more pictures because of that. |
| 14:13.36 | Uncle_Jesse | Can't remember which one it was - there was a good review in the latest PCMag |
| 14:13.41 | dataw0lf|w | word. |
| 14:13.47 | dataw0lf|w | appreciate the help guys. |
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| 15:10.09 | hans | flightgear is nifty |
| 15:11.17 | tapH20guru | mmmm... new 7960 VOIP phones at work. time to change the ringtone :) |
| 15:11.54 | hans | tapH20guru: you can smuggle one of those my way, if you want |
| 15:11.59 | tapH20guru | lol |
| 15:12.00 | tapH20guru | i wish |
| 15:12.17 | tapH20guru | er.. you wish |
| 15:14.32 | hans | yes, yes I do |
| 15:16.18 | tapH20guru | http://www.sys-security.com/archive/papers/The_Trivial_Cisco_IP_Phones_Compromise.pdf |
| 15:16.23 | tapH20guru | tsk tsk tsk |
| 15:16.34 | tapH20guru | I hope my company isn't using the SIP firmware |
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| 15:18.27 | tensai | we, of course, do |
| 15:18.41 | Uncle_Jesse | all right - I'm picking up a radio station on my amplified computer speakers. Where should I place a filter - would it be on the power line or at the speaker jacks themselves? |
| 15:19.00 | hans | Uncle_Jesse: you should just smile. I can't get any reception in my office |
| 15:19.07 | Uncle_Jesse | lol |
| 15:19.08 | dataw0lf|w | speaker jacks. |
| 15:19.21 | Uncle_Jesse | do they have filters for the speaker jacks? |
| 15:19.52 | dataw0lf|w | I dunno, I'm just talking out my ass. |
| 15:20.38 | Uncle_Jesse | ~lart dataw0lf|w |
| 15:21.07 | Uncle_Jesse | The ham radio operator in me says do it at the power source |
| 15:23.10 | tapH20guru | Uncle_Jesse: I think you're right |
| 15:23.21 | tapH20guru | along the power lines |
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| 15:32.48 | *** part/#utah furby (~fugalh@2.wencor.com) |
| 15:39.06 | emcnabb | http://www.ericharshbarger.org/lego/penguin.html |
| 15:39.35 | tapH20guru | sweet penguin |
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| 15:51.36 | mrpull | for the treo geeks... |
| 15:51.37 | mrpull | http://digital-lifestyles.info/display_page.asp?section=platforms&id=2152 |
| 15:51.45 | Uncle_Jesse | (penguin) |
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| 16:04.46 | vontrapp | ~lart fugln |
| 16:04.58 | vontrapp | ibot: could you have picked a more lame lart? |
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| 16:18.13 | Hhhhh | hello |
| 16:18.50 | Jayce^ | hi |
| 16:18.53 | mrpull | Hhhhh: i've been agonizing for weeks how you came up with such a creative nick... can you tell us? |
| 16:19.02 | mrpull | ;) |
| 16:20.46 | mrpull | seriously... i gotta know |
| 16:25.07 | Hhhhh | oh |
| 16:25.08 | Hhhhh | hehe |
| 16:25.16 | Hhhhh | I was playing a MUD a few years ago |
| 16:25.33 | Hhhhh | and there was this n00b who started just yell stupid and obscene comments |
| 16:25.47 | Hhhhh | so they kicked him out, and he would log in with different names |
| 16:25.53 | Hhhhh | one of them was Hhhhh |
| 16:25.58 | Hhhhh | and I liked it a lot :) |
| 16:26.26 | Hhhhh | it fits because I usually play with an Alien model in UT2k4 |
| 16:26.38 | Hhhhh | and Hhhhh is the sound that Giger's aliens make |
| 16:26.41 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 16:32.48 | mrpull | perfect |
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| 16:42.33 | hans | hear ye, hear ye. hhgg Cinemark American Fork 10:55 Saturday morning. |
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| 16:44.01 | hans | use your own discretion as to how early to show and all that |
| 16:44.07 | hans | or else discuss coordination here |
| 16:45.16 | hans | ~towel Jayce^ |
| 16:45.56 | mrpull | heheh |
| 16:46.22 | mrpull | marvin was always a C3P0 style robot for me |
| 16:46.25 | mrpull | not a golf ball |
| 16:46.50 | mrpull | i think it was about the 3rd book when I realized i had been misreading prefect |
| 16:47.49 | mrpull | errr.. and not until right now that there was a truck |
| 16:48.16 | Jayce^ | reading the intro are we? :) |
| 16:49.38 | mrpull | it's been some time since I read the trilogy 7/8 years I suppose |
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| 16:54.01 | hans | misreading prefect? were you thinking perfect? |
| 16:54.16 | hans | or did you have an epiphany about his character? |
| 16:55.14 | mrpull | I read it as perfect |
| 16:55.24 | mrpull | i guess my mind was wired to see perfect |
| 16:55.42 | mrpull | epiphany time! my whole family is dyslexic but me... |
| 16:55.47 | mrpull | until now! |
| 16:59.16 | levi | Marvin looks like a golf ball in the movie? |
| 16:59.26 | mrpull | have you seen the preview? |
| 16:59.41 | mrpull | isn't that bulbous white thing marvin? |
| 16:59.45 | levi | My first exposure to HHGG was the miniseries, so that's what Marvin always looked like to me. |
| 17:00.20 | mrpull | oddly, i wasn't aware of the miniseries or the radio plays until after I read the books |
| 17:00.21 | levi | I think I may have seen it, but I didn't realize it and wasn't paying attention. |
| 17:00.51 | levi | mrpull: That's not too odd. I was introduced to it by a babysitter when I was a little kid, which is why I saw the miniseries first. |
| 17:01.18 | mrpull | ahh Alan Rickman is the voice of marvin. He should do a good job |
| 17:01.23 | JoshH | i hate to admit it, but my first exposure to HHGG will be this movie... :( |
| 17:01.55 | vontrapp | my first (and only) exposure thus far was the text adventure game |
| 17:02.30 | levi | Weirdos. |
| 17:02.54 | levi | The books are the best version. |
| 17:03.03 | Bradipo | Can ssh be used as a replacement for rcmd? |
| 17:03.05 | vontrapp | i believe it |
| 17:03.20 | mrpull | i enjoyed the books... never looked into the other versions |
| 17:03.56 | mrpull | Bradipo: you just want to execute a command remotely? |
| 17:03.56 | xilch|w | JoshH: read the books first. trust me |
| 17:04.03 | xilch|w | JoshH: at least the first one |
| 17:04.08 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog@166.70.34.182) |
| 17:04.19 | JoshH | i dont know if ill have time before this weekend... when im scheduled to see the flick |
| 17:04.35 | mrpull | ssh user@host command |
| 17:04.37 | mrpull | should do that |
| 17:04.50 | vontrapp | it does |
| 17:04.56 | xilch|w | JoshH: I hope they do a good job with the movie then - the books are great |
| 17:05.02 | vontrapp | and if you need terminal interaction for <command> use -t |
| 17:05.37 | JoshH | i guess i could stop at the library later and maybe cram them in by sunday |
| 17:06.40 | Bradipo | mrpull: No. |
| 17:06.47 | Bradipo | I want to return a stream to a remote command. |
| 17:06.52 | Bradipo | As the rcmd man page indicates. |
| 17:07.01 | Bradipo | To write to a tape drive on a remote system. |
| 17:07.04 | vontrapp | like a pipe? |
| 17:07.25 | vontrapp | ssh will redirect a pipe to the remote command |
| 17:07.38 | Bradipo | As in: rcmd hostname "find /path -print" | cpio -ovcO /dev/tape |
| 17:08.43 | vontrapp | where the entire line following rcmd is run on the remote host? including cpie? |
| 17:08.54 | vontrapp | s/cpie/cpio/ |
| 17:10.55 | Bradipo | It is run on the server with the tape drive in it. |
| 17:11.21 | Bradipo | The remote host has the files. |
| 17:11.57 | mrpull | i see where you are going... |
| 17:15.07 | vontrapp | i *think* ssh hostname "find ... | cpio ..." will do what you want |
| 17:15.19 | Bradipo | vontrapp: That's what I was thinking... |
| 17:15.28 | mrpull | give it a try with a test directory :) |
| 17:15.31 | Bradipo | I mean, ssh is supposed to be a direct replacement. |
| 17:15.47 | Bradipo | Right, the intended directory is 37GB, don't want to test with that. |
| 17:16.56 | mrpull | i'm glad I have decent backup software :) |
| 17:17.05 | mrpull | and a big tape library |
| 17:22.31 | vontrapp | gah, |
| 17:22.41 | vontrapp | ~lart xmms |
| 17:24.17 | hans | fitting |
| 17:29.36 | JoshH | lol |
| 17:29.43 | JoshH | vontrapp, you lart xmms about twice a day |
| 17:29.51 | Bradipo | mrpull: I have that too. |
| 17:29.56 | Bradipo | This isn't for backup purposes... |
| 17:30.04 | Bradipo | Someone wants a copy of information on a DLT tape. |
| 17:30.32 | Bradipo | Not sure why they don't just copy it over the weekend... |
| 17:30.53 | vontrapp | JoshH: fortunately not so much these days |
| 17:31.11 | vontrapp | doing a batch analyzing of all my music did wonders |
| 17:31.19 | vontrapp | now it only occasionaly craps out |
| 17:31.27 | JoshH | i just use it play mp3's, and nothing else. it works for that. :) |
| 17:31.49 | vontrapp | this time it crapped on a .mpg file |
| 17:32.00 | vontrapp | i think it may be ubuntus fault |
| 17:32.03 | vontrapp | used to work |
| 17:32.24 | vontrapp | so did double size, which doesn't work now since upgrading to ubuntu |
| 17:33.14 | JoshH | ah, i see. if its not mp3 or ogg, i dont use xmms for it. thats my rule. |
| 17:33.43 | vontrapp | it was a music video, i guess i'll just take it out of my playlist |
| 17:40.29 | Bradipo | Nope, no go. |
| 17:40.35 | Bradipo | I get no such file or directory. |
| 17:40.53 | vontrapp | what was the commanD? |
| 17:41.09 | Bradipo | ssh root@host "find /home/filename" | cpio -ovO /tmp/something.cpio |
| 17:42.11 | vontrapp | unless you want cpio to be run on the local host, you need to extend the quottage to include the whole line |
| 17:42.12 | hans | Bradipo: I'm pretty sure the pipe applies to the top level |
| 17:42.44 | vontrapp | ssh root@host "find /home/filename | cpio -ov0 /tmp/something.cpio" |
| 17:43.03 | Bradipo | vontrapp: No, there is no tape on the remote system. |
| 17:43.17 | Bradipo | The tape is on the local system. |
| 17:43.37 | vontrapp | then ssh root@host "find /home/filename | cpio -ov0" > /tmp/something.cpio |
| 17:44.05 | vontrapp | assuming cpio will output to stdout |
| 17:44.10 | Bradipo | vontrapp: Yeah, it does. |
| 17:44.12 | Bradipo | Without -O |
| 17:44.48 | Bradipo | I figured I could do it that way but I wanted to avoid using redirection. |
| 17:47.10 | Bradipo | Ok, I think I've got it figured out. |
| 17:48.38 | Bradipo | ssh root@host "find /home/filename | cpio -ov" | dd of=/tmp/something.cpio |
| 17:48.44 | Bradipo | Without redirection. |
| 17:49.04 | vontrapp | why do you want to avoid redirection? |
| 17:49.26 | Bradipo | I don't necessarily. |
| 17:49.57 | Bradipo | But when writing to a tape, I can specify block size information, etc... with dd. |
| 17:50.04 | Bradipo | You can't do that with > unless I'm mistaken. |
| 17:50.41 | hans | so /tmp/something.cpio is a link to /dev/mt0 or something? |
| 17:51.02 | Bradipo | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:51.13 | Bradipo | The real device is /dev/tape |
| 17:51.35 | vontrapp | you probably would be better off with dd then going directly to the tape |
| 17:51.40 | Bradipo | Which is a soft link to /dev/st0 |
| 17:51.56 | Bradipo | Its just faster to read an archive from a file than from the tape. |
| 17:52.07 | Bradipo | So I was using /tmp/something.cpio as a testing ground. |
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| 18:47.56 | fozz | Bradipo: If cpio acts like tar, it doesn't store absolute paths by default |
| 18:48.27 | fozz | Just a thought that popped into my head as I was catching up. |
| 18:49.03 | goozbach | cpio doesn't act like tar |
| 18:49.24 | goozbach | cpio by default does not recurse |
| 18:49.35 | goozbach | and it does store aboslute paths |
| 18:51.35 | fozz | goozbach: I was just talking about the way it stores paths. |
| 18:51.51 | fozz | tar does everything relatively. |
| 18:52.14 | goozbach | yup |
| 19:00.04 | jce | So what's the best machine I could build for $1200 |
| 19:00.59 | fozz | desktop? |
| 19:01.03 | jce | yep. |
| 19:01.08 | jce | devel machine. |
| 19:01.19 | fozz | INcluding monitor? |
| 19:01.35 | fozz | Or monitorS. :) |
| 19:01.39 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@jamestkirk.byu.edu) |
| 19:01.50 | jce | with. |
| 19:02.02 | fozz | CRT? LCD? WHat size? |
| 19:02.14 | fugln | heck, just forget the computer and go all out on the monitor |
| 19:02.20 | fozz | YEAH! |
| 19:02.22 | fugln | you can get a nice projector for that much |
| 19:02.44 | jce | I still couldn't get one of those 30" apple monitors, so what's the point. |
| 19:03.11 | jce | Ok, so 800-900 on the computer... |
| 19:03.24 | fugln | MiniMac |
| 19:04.02 | jce | a MacMini doesn't have any pci slots does it? |
| 19:04.29 | fugln | no... |
| 19:04.43 | fugln | but USB and FireWire |
| 19:05.02 | jce | probably want a dual... |
| 19:06.22 | fugln | hrmm.. probably out of luck then |
| 19:14.10 | fozz | jce: Operating system? |
| 19:16.17 | fozz | http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16883102621 |
| 19:16.22 | fozz | That gives you some idea. |
| 19:26.16 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (~Hhhhhhhh@c-67-169-244-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:26.29 | Hhhhh | hey guys, i've a problem with the new nForce drivers |
| 19:28.43 | dataw0lf|w | well, don't leave us in suspense. |
| 19:29.19 | Hhhhh | lol, i installed them, did everything that the Release notes say, and it's not working right |
| 19:29.42 | Hhhhh | when I login, I get a message saying that there was an error initializing the sound device |
| 19:29.46 | Hhhhh | i'm running FC3 |
| 19:31.21 | dataw0lf|w | oh, that's an easy problem to fix. |
| 19:31.24 | dataw0lf|w | uninstall FC3. |
| 19:31.57 | Hhhhh | well... |
| 19:33.14 | *** join/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.112) |
| 19:41.57 | spr | Hhhhh, does the new nForce driver work in 2.6 kernels? |
| 19:43.30 | Hhhhh | spr: it does |
| 19:43.41 | Hhhhh | spr: I followed the directions here |
| 19:43.50 | Hhhhh | http://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/nforce/1.0-0301/ReleaseNotes.html#Configuration |
| 19:44.13 | amcnabb | Is sound supported? |
| 19:44.16 | Hhhhh | yes |
| 19:44.20 | amcnabb | wow |
| 19:45.26 | Hhhhh | i edited the modprobe file |
| 19:46.14 | Hhhhh | and changed what I needed in /etc/rc.d/init.d/halt and /etc/rc.local |
| 19:46.22 | Hhhhh | but I get this error |
| 19:46.29 | Hhhhh | Sound server informational message: |
| 19:46.29 | Hhhhh | Error while initializing the sound driver: |
| 19:46.29 | Hhhhh | device: default can't be opened for playback (No such file or directory) |
| 19:46.29 | Hhhhh | The sound server will continue, using the null output device. |
| 19:47.41 | Hhhhh | in a window that pops up when I log in |
| 19:47.56 | hans | o/~ this precious declaration means ... |
| 19:48.11 | Bradipo | fozz: I don't believe cpio stores absolute paths, but that isn't entirely critical for this job. |
| 19:50.04 | Hhhhh | any ideas? I want to have the sound driver working for BZFlag in CS 470 |
| 19:56.43 | *** join/#utah bzob (~bzob@nat.myfamilyinc.com) |
| 19:59.59 | hans | oh my, Darth Vader has a blog now |
| 20:01.14 | *** join/#utah tapH20guru (~tapH20gur@204.110.228.110) |
| 20:01.45 | hans | that is so dumb. "Kevin Smith Previews Revenge of the Sith" - it says "serious spoilers" so obviously you don't want to go read it, but then the poster doesn't even say if this Smith guy even liked it |
| 20:01.58 | hans | "someone wrote a review. it has spoilers so don't read it." |
| 20:02.03 | hans | thanks, I needed to know that. |
| 20:02.30 | hans | wow, /. is on a roll today. Apparently Nuclear Fusion was just discovered. |
| 20:05.06 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@thelances.net) |
| 20:05.19 | levi | Gotta love /. |
| 20:06.49 | Jayce^ | that review is quite good :) |
| 20:06.56 | Jayce^ | and yes, full spoilage |
| 20:08.36 | tensai | days /. free: 53 |
| 20:09.58 | jsmith | I thought the "Stupid Slashdot Article of the Day" award went to the "Gee -- this is what Google's homepage looked like a number of years ago" post |
| 20:10.00 | dataw0lf|w | hans: 'this Smith guy' |
| 20:10.06 | dataw0lf|w | hans: you don't know who Kevin Smith is? |
| 20:10.18 | hans | apparently he's a bigwig director |
| 20:10.40 | JoshH | tensai: http://tinyurl.com/87d |
| 20:10.41 | dataw0lf|w | he's the director/writer of Mallrats, Clerks, Dogma, etc. |
| 20:10.49 | dataw0lf|w | very clever dialogue writer. |
| 20:10.57 | dataw0lf|w | and a huge Star Wars fan (thus the review by him) |
| 20:11.07 | hans | haven't heard of any of those films |
| 20:11.12 | JoshH | :O |
| 20:11.15 | Jayce^ | tensai, I didn't read /., the link was given to me :) |
| 20:11.19 | JoshH | clerks and dogma are classics |
| 20:11.30 | dataw0lf|w | wow. |
| 20:11.35 | dataw0lf|w | All of his films are classics. |
| 20:11.46 | dataw0lf|w | I can't believe you've never heard of them. |
| 20:11.48 | dataw0lf|w | eh. |
| 20:11.51 | dataw0lf|w | Utahns. |
| 20:13.25 | hans | I didn't grow up in utah |
| 20:13.32 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (~aint@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:13.37 | Tene | are you certain? |
| 20:13.56 | hans | unless my memory has been altered |
| 20:15.39 | tensai | Jayce^: slashdot.org has address 127.0.0.1 |
| 20:16.59 | dataw0lf|w | hans: are you LDS. |
| 20:17.00 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (~Hhhhhhhh@c-67-169-244-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:17.22 | dataw0lf|w | I must say, if Kevin Smith is giving the thumbs up to Revenge of the Sith, the future looks bright. |
| 20:17.32 | hans | I am |
| 20:19.35 | dataw0lf|w | hans: Which explains your lack of knowledge of Kevin Smith's films. |
| 20:19.57 | Hhhhh | anyone has played with modprobe.conf a lot? I'm having problems configuring it for nvsound |
| 20:19.58 | dataw0lf|w | I know maybe 3 or 4 Mormons who would find his films humorous. |
| 20:20.55 | bonez39 | dataw0lf: what sort of films does Kevin Smith produce? |
| 20:21.48 | dataw0lf|w | films with a high level of vulgarity and a tradition of mocking organized religion. |
| 20:21.48 | dataw0lf|w | thus the film 'Dogma' |
| 20:21.48 | dataw0lf|w | Excellent flick. |
| 20:21.48 | dataw0lf|w | for someone who isn't into organized religion. |
| 20:23.18 | dataw0lf|w | course, if you are into organized religion, you'll probably be offended, especially if you take yourself (or your religion) too seriously (which is the point Smith tends to try to get across, unsuccessfully of course) |
| 20:28.12 | JoshH | i know a lot of people though who are quite religious and still loved dogma |
| 20:28.26 | JoshH | it depends if youre the type of religious person who can laugh at mockery, or the type who gets offended easily. |
| 20:29.15 | JoshH | i probably laughed longer and harder at clerks the first time i saw it than any other movie ive seen. |
| 20:30.08 | dataw0lf|w | JoshH: No offense to any LDS people here, but I've noticed that there is alot higher percentage of Mormons who 'take offense easily' than in most other religions. |
| 20:30.57 | dataw0lf|w | although I guess if someone here got offended they'd just be proving my point. I should've left out the precursor. Damn! |
| 20:31.01 | JoshH | maybe, but ive known enough mormons to know they cover the full spectrum. there are all types. |
| 20:31.15 | hans | dataw0lf|w: I'll give you that, and a hypothesis. I think more LDS take their religion seriously than other religions, on the whole. |
| 20:31.45 | dataw0lf|w | hans: Sure. However, taking your religion seriously, and taking offense easily, certainly are not the same. |
| 20:31.56 | dataw0lf|w | And I wouldn't say on the whole. |
| 20:32.03 | hans | the "take offense easily", while not a good trait, does seem to come along with the take things seriously part |
| 20:32.26 | hans | more than people who don't take things seriously anyway. it's all very fascinating |
| 20:32.27 | vontrapp | not the same thing, but one often leads to the other |
| 20:32.34 | dataw0lf|w | And I probably wouldn't agree that more LDS people take their religion seriously than alot of other religions. |
| 20:32.49 | JoshH | dataw0lf: how long have you been in utah? |
| 20:33.00 | dataw0lf|w | Hm... 8 months? |
| 20:33.35 | hans | dataw0lf|w: well, I wouldn't bet my life on it either. My perspective isn't exactly objective |
| 20:33.47 | dataw0lf|w | Visit Turkey. |
| 20:33.50 | dataw0lf|w | or Israel. |
| 20:33.57 | dataw0lf|w | That's 'taking your religion serious' |
| 20:34.11 | hans | ko, I hadn't even thought of them. I was thinking US. :) |
| 20:34.22 | hans | also notice the take offense easily tendency in the middle east |
| 20:34.29 | JoshH | give yourself time to meet and get to know more mormons. there are a lot who are a bit uptight, but there are also a lot who are totally cool. do you live in the SLC area or closer to utah county? |
| 20:34.36 | *** join/#utah flyfisher65 (~mike@translate.sento.com) |
| 20:34.55 | tapH20guru | are there mormons in utah? |
| 20:34.57 | tapH20guru | ;) |
| 20:35.06 | JoshH | ya, when people in the middle east get offended, they burn bush effigies in the streets. |
| 20:35.07 | dataw0lf|w | JoshH: right smack dab in the middle of SLC. I've certainly met several open minded Mormons, which I have a _great_ deal of respect for, but they're lost in the waves of ... others. |
| 20:35.33 | hans | SLC mormons are even weirder than Utah County Mormons |
| 20:35.34 | JoshH | dataw0lf: just dont ever go to cedar hills, heh. they just barely lost a smiths grocery store because they didnt any beer sold at all in the town. |
| 20:36.15 | hans | smiths pulled out because they couldn't sell enough beer? that's silly - didn't they still sell groceries? is there that much profit margin in beer? |
| 20:36.22 | dataw0lf|w | JoshH: Oh, I'm not leaving SLC. I'm too scared of the fascists. |
| 20:37.01 | hans | dataw0lf|w: most of us are from utah county. ;-) |
| 20:37.06 | dataw0lf|w | ACK! |
| 20:37.14 | JoshH | hans: its been covered in the trib/dnews quite a bit, basically there was a lot of debate about beer sales, being open on sunday, etc and smiths just got tired of waiting and cancelled their plans. |
| 20:37.16 | dataw0lf|w | Don't send the secret police, I didn't mean it!! |
| 20:37.19 | dataw0lf|w | ;) |
| 20:37.22 | hans | or, in utah county, I mean |
| 20:38.01 | hans | JoshH: oh, smiths pulled out from building there because they didn't want to deal with their customers. that's fair enough |
| 20:38.06 | dataw0lf|w | wasn't there a high ranking LDS bishop or prophet or some high up guy who had predicted the end times were coming last week or something. |
| 20:38.38 | hans | nobody told me |
| 20:38.52 | JoshH | honestly, the only thing that bugs me about the mormon church (not individual mormons) is how it gets so involved in utah politics. like how the church "previewed" the revisions made to the liquor laws a while back before the bill was voted on, that kind of stuff just bothers me. |
| 20:38.55 | hans | I wouldn't have fixed the fax modems on Saturday in that case. |
| 20:39.21 | JoshH | dataw0lf: that was the fundamentalist prophet, they arent official mormons. |
| 20:39.26 | dataw0lf|w | when are the end times coming? does anybody know? |
| 20:39.35 | dataw0lf|w | I need at least a month's notice. |
| 20:39.44 | hans | dataw0lf|w: when they get here |
| 20:40.39 | hans | "when does the bread come out of the oven?" "When it's done" |
| 20:40.40 | hans | same thing |
| 20:40.47 | JoshH | mormon or not though, dogma is a hilarious movie and should not be missed. |
| 20:41.50 | JoshH | honestly it doesnt even try to mock religion really... some people just think it does because it features god as a woman who loves skeeball, a black jesus, etc |
| 20:43.23 | vontrapp | it's not that one where whoopi goldberg plays god, is it? |
| 20:43.30 | hans | actually now that you mention it I seem to remember a preview for dogma. looked vaguely funny |
| 20:43.34 | JoshH | no, alanis morrisette does |
| 20:44.30 | Bradipo | JoshH: But we are just living up to the name that Bush and the rest of the political leaders are saying. |
| 20:44.44 | Bradipo | Aren't we a democracy? Isn't democracy what we are selling to the rest of the world? |
| 20:44.50 | Bradipo | Might as well become democratic. |
| 20:45.16 | JoshH | Bradipo: its one thing for mormons to go and vote, its another for the church headquarters to be given special access to an early version of the bill that wasnt even public |
| 20:45.26 | Bradipo | JoshH: That's Democracy. |
| 20:45.31 | Bradipo | That's how Democracy works. |
| 20:45.48 | Bradipo | You want rule by laws or majority rules? |
| 20:45.54 | Bradipo | Democracy is the latter. |
| 20:46.27 | dataw0lf|w | It's called checks and balances, Bradipo. |
| 20:46.30 | JoshH | i want rule by laws, but i dont want a church's leadership to give legislators a a yes or no on whether a bill is ready to be voted on yet. |
| 20:46.32 | dataw0lf|w | Not to mention separation of church and state. |
| 20:46.51 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: How about separation of school and state? |
| 20:46.58 | JoshH | im all for private schools |
| 20:47.06 | Bradipo | Aren't people belonging to the LDS church people? |
| 20:47.09 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: Is that in the constitution or declaration of independences? |
| 20:47.25 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: No, but it should be. |
| 20:47.35 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: The whole point is, regardless whether or not the majority of Utah voters are LDS, the church has no right to grab the bill before it's voted on. |
| 20:47.41 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, so a senator can't ask the major leadership of his main constituancy if it meets their critirea? |
| 20:47.49 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: Alot of stuff 'should be' |
| 20:48.07 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: 'meets their criteria' ? Explain. |
| 20:48.21 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: So, the Church stepped in? Who was representing the Church in this? |
| 20:48.47 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: I don't know, I'm just commenting on what JoshH has been arguing. |
| 20:49.02 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, when writing a law that touches on a major foundation of the local majority, usually it's a good idea to ask their opinion.. that's part of a representative government |
| 20:49.03 | JoshH | Bradipo: you dont remember that? gimme a minute to find an article |
| 20:49.07 | Bradipo | JoshH: Was it a bishop of a ward? Was it the prophet (president of the church)? |
| 20:49.14 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: That's what 'voting' is for. |
| 20:49.31 | Bradipo | JoshH: I don't remember it, but then I don't pay that much attention to Utah politics. In fact, most politics focus on the wrong issues. |
| 20:49.35 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: ie, to find out who the majority is, and find out their position on said law. |
| 20:49.37 | JoshH | Bradipo: it was a people from HQ, i cant remember exactly who but im looking |
| 20:49.42 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, so a legislator shouldn't ask his constituancy what their opinion is during his term? |
| 20:50.03 | Jayce^ | that's what they *should* be doing.. I wish they'd do it more |
| 20:50.06 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: What I'm saying is, I don't care who the majority is. Laws should be written without respect to majority or minority and protect the individual. |
| 20:50.08 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: He certainly should, however, he shouldn't give them laws that have not been offered up for legislation yet for review. |
| 20:50.16 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: isn't that the whole point? |
| 20:50.31 | Jayce^ | I think they should.. less closed doors |
| 20:50.36 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: Yes, but why complain about it when all of our leaders are saying we're a Democracy? |
| 20:50.48 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: I find it odd a member of the LDS church is commenting on 'closed doors' |
| 20:50.58 | Bradipo | I'm saying, you can't blame the sheep for being misled... |
| 20:51.03 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, how can that be considered odd?? |
| 20:51.19 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: The incredible amount of documents your church has kept hidden for years. |
| 20:51.32 | Jayce^ | 'documents'... uhh |
| 20:51.49 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: Especially the original letter Brigham Young wrote to the Generals overseeing the Mountain Meadow Massacre. That'd be an interesting read. |
| 20:51.58 | dataw0lf|w | well, for me anyway. |
| 20:52.11 | Jayce^ | ah yes, the wonderful meadow consipracy stuff... |
| 20:52.17 | dataw0lf|w | *conspiracy |
| 20:52.18 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: How about the > 300,000 undocumented volumes of work in the Library of Congress? |
| 20:52.22 | Jayce^ | 'generals' |
| 20:52.27 | JoshH | bah, the sltrib charges for the archives |
| 20:52.29 | Bradipo | That is what would interest me. |
| 20:52.30 | JoshH | hang on |
| 20:52.35 | Bradipo | Who knows what kind of goodies we might find in there. |
| 20:52.37 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: Certainly, they should be open too. I don't see how that reflects on my argument though. |
| 20:52.48 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: They are open, just not indexed or documented. |
| 20:52.56 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 20:52.57 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: LDS documents are? |
| 20:53.04 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: Really? |
| 20:53.09 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: I'm talking books, documents, etc... |
| 20:53.12 | Bradipo | Not LDS. |
| 20:53.15 | Bradipo | Just in general. |
| 20:53.36 | dataw0lf|w | Ah, I see. |
| 20:53.43 | Bradipo | My point is, there are thousands, hundreds of thousands of documents, books, papers, all out there just waiting for someone to discover. |
| 20:53.49 | dataw0lf|w | Sure. |
| 20:54.12 | Bradipo | Can the LDS church possibly have more hidden or otherwise unknown documents than the rest of the world? |
| 20:54.12 | dataw0lf|w | There are thousands of LDS documents _already_ discovered, yet your church holds onto them like they're.... guilty.... of something. |
| 20:54.33 | dataw0lf|w | I don't see where you're getting with this argument. |
| 20:54.48 | dataw0lf|w | I certainly don't think the LDS church is worse than many organizations in the world. |
| 20:54.49 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: If I had the only copy of a certain document, I would be wary of sharing it with someone too, not necessarily for its content, but rather the possibility that it gets lost or stolen. |
| 20:54.51 | dataw0lf|w | Just an observation. |
| 20:55.10 | Jayce^ | so you believe we're hiding supposedly incriminating documents on history |
| 20:55.26 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: If there are documents, however, I too would be interested in them. |
| 20:55.33 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: How about if people claimed vicious things about your church? Wouldn't, if you were innocent, provide the necessary documents, books, etc for review by impartial parties to clear you? |
| 20:55.36 | Bradipo | Regardless of their content; I like to see the truth. |
| 20:55.47 | dataw0lf|w | I agree. |
| 20:55.51 | bucky | Bradipo, the problem is that Jeremiah 52 and the rest of Jeremiah and most of Isaiah order all of the population of Israel to submit to the Babylonian Captivity and expressly said that no one would escape |
| 20:56.38 | bucky | and thanks to BYU we found out we have the same Jeremiah and Isaiah as Jesus did |
| 20:57.14 | Bradipo | bucky: I'm not following, please explain. |
| 20:57.24 | dataw0lf|w | However, I do have some issues with the LDS church, such as ostracizing members who speak out, however fairly, 'against' the church, or attacking any writer who casts the Mormons in even the slightest negative light. |
| 20:57.28 | bucky | Bradipo, the problem is that Jeremiah 52 and the rest of Jeremiah and most of Isaiah order all of the population of Israel to submit to the Babylonian Captivity and expressly said that no one would escape |
| 20:57.51 | hans | bucky: you said that |
| 20:57.52 | JoshH | Bradipo: how do you feel about the church suing salt lake city about the dead goat saloon (a bar that has women in pasties) because they claim it is too close a religious building (a coffee shop on main street where a group of baptists read the bible together once a month)? |
| 20:58.10 | dataw0lf|w | I can recognize that most LDS members have a sense of having to defend themselves rigorously because of previous persecution, and it's interesting how that translates modern day, common members of the church. |
| 20:58.15 | bucky | hans, so there was no migration to this continent |
| 20:58.18 | dataw0lf|w | +to |
| 20:58.20 | JoshH | or about the church getting involved in california's gay marriage lawsuit a few years ago |
| 20:58.45 | JoshH | do you think that tax free organizations like churches should get involved in politics like that? |
| 20:58.52 | JoshH | personally i dont |
| 20:59.14 | JoshH | thats just my only gripe, i have no problem with mormons personally. |
| 20:59.19 | dataw0lf|w | I'm going to go smoke a cigarette and ponder conspiracies some more, brb. |
| 20:59.21 | Uncle_Jesse | religion != politics |
| 20:59.34 | hans | bucky: whatever you say. your argument is so solid that there is no possible defyment |
| 20:59.42 | hans | ~dict defyment |
| 20:59.50 | hans | defiance I guess its the word |
| 20:59.56 | Bradipo | JoshH: Interesting, do you have any references on that? |
| 21:00.03 | hans | Uncle_Jesse: more often than not, it is |
| 21:00.30 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: I'm just stating that people don't dictate what religion should do, or they shouldn't |
| 21:00.41 | Uncle_Jesse | if their religion is lead by God at least |
| 21:00.45 | hans | right |
| 21:00.57 | JoshH | i mean, i can handle driving to wyoming to buy a keg, going to nevada to gamble, going to idaho to buy a lottery ticket, etc, those things are because individual mormons vote, and thats fine. |
| 21:01.07 | JoshH | Bradipo: hang on, ill get some info |
| 21:01.14 | Bradipo | JoshH: To be honest, I think a number of laws we have are rediculous. |
| 21:02.25 | Bradipo | But that is what happens when we give up our God given rights and let the government take over. |
| 21:02.29 | bucky | hans, that's right because BYU put the dead sea scrolls back together and proved we have the same, "to the letter", book of Isaiah and book of Jeremiah |
| 21:02.52 | JoshH | Bradipo: im probably almost as libertarian as you are, i know what you mean. |
| 21:02.57 | hans | the dead sea scrolls are in english? |
| 21:03.42 | JoshH | Bradipo: http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595046853,00.html |
| 21:03.53 | bucky | hans, someone was saying in here the other day that accurate transcritions were impossible.. but the jews did it over thousand of years |
| 21:04.02 | dataw0lf|w | according to who? |
| 21:04.09 | dataw0lf|w | do you have any references for this blather? |
| 21:04.21 | JoshH | that article says the baptists meet there a bit more often than other sources ive seen, but oh well. |
| 21:04.28 | Bradipo | JoshH: Well, is there a law that says how far a strip bar should be? |
| 21:05.01 | JoshH | but A: it has nothing to do with the LDS church, and B: calling a coffee house a place of worship just because some people choose to read the bible there is a stretch. |
| 21:05.05 | Bradipo | And why didn't the Baptist church take this one up... |
| 21:05.07 | Bradipo | That's interesting. |
| 21:05.12 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 21:05.12 | JoshH | because baptists dont care |
| 21:05.15 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, yes, there is a law, and zoning |
| 21:05.29 | JoshH | the baptist church is not involved in the lawsuit at all |
| 21:05.44 | Jayce^ | they've had the same issue with a certain store opening within a block of an elementry school in slc too |
| 21:06.02 | dataw0lf|w | 'certain store' ? |
| 21:06.10 | Bradipo | If one where to open up next to my school, I would stop sending my children to that school. |
| 21:06.26 | Bradipo | s/where/were/ |
| 21:06.52 | Bradipo | JoshH: I guess the real question comes down to, who owns the land where that baptist church is... |
| 21:06.56 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, adult entertainment, lingerie, etc.. although less overly adult stuff |
| 21:07.07 | JoshH | the owner of the coffee shop |
| 21:07.08 | Jayce^ | eg really really bad stuff (around kids) |
| 21:07.09 | Bradipo | Is the land owned by the Church? Or is it owned by someone else. |
| 21:07.14 | Bradipo | JoshH: Are you sure? |
| 21:07.14 | JoshH | and he isnt involved in the suit either. |
| 21:07.17 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: what's the fear there? |
| 21:07.27 | dataw0lf|w | that some porn stars will jump out of the store and steal the kids away? |
| 21:07.29 | JoshH | the lds church is suing salt lake city, saying salt lake city shouldnt have given the dead goat its SOB license. |
| 21:07.39 | JoshH | because its too close to that coffee house. |
| 21:08.05 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, kids have to walk in front of the store windows, with teddy's etc up in the windows, to get to the school |
| 21:08.08 | JoshH | Bradipo: its the main street coffee house in downtown slc |
| 21:08.10 | hans | JoshH: a lot of organizations take action on behalf of others. I don't see what's morally wrong with that |
| 21:08.24 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: I guess I don't see the terrible thing about that. |
| 21:08.24 | Bradipo | JoshH: But who owns the rights to the land? |
| 21:08.39 | Jayce^ | hans, it's the same attitude the aclu takes in all their lawsuits |
| 21:08.40 | JoshH | well i dont know who the owner is, but i know its not the lds church, or a baptist church. |
| 21:08.49 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, how many kids do you have? |
| 21:09.07 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: none, why? |
| 21:09.14 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, that makes a difference.. |
| 21:09.20 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: I truly doubt if it does. |
| 21:09.26 | Jayce^ | that's a whole lot of stuff I don't want my kids seeing while they are young |
| 21:09.34 | dataw0lf|w | When are you going to allow them to see it then? |
| 21:09.37 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, oh it makes a huge difference |
| 21:09.38 | hans | Jayce^: yes, that's the organization I was thinking of |
| 21:09.39 | dataw0lf|w | a Teddy? |
| 21:09.51 | hans | I often don't jive with the aclu, but the approach is the same |
| 21:09.52 | JoshH | i dont think there is anything inherently wrong with zoning laws, but a church shouldnt go to such extraordinary and absurd lengths to take away the ability of adults to go to a strip club |
| 21:10.01 | JoshH | especially where the girls arent even nude |
| 21:10.06 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, when they are old enough, which as a parent it's my responsibility to judge |
| 21:10.45 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: Your perspective on life changes quite a bit once you have children that you alone (and your wife of course) are responsible for. |
| 21:10.46 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: Obviously. Although I believe you're judging wrong. But keep your kids insulated for as long as possible (a teddy?? gimme a break), that's a great idea. |
| 21:11.04 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: I doubt if my honesty will change though. |
| 21:11.12 | dataw0lf|w | I certainly am not going to be showing my kids porn. |
| 21:11.26 | dataw0lf|w | But I'm not going to be afraid of sexual knowledge, nor of a 'teddy'. |
| 21:11.29 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, as a parent, it's my right and responsibility to keep my kids from being exposed to things too far above them |
| 21:11.29 | dataw0lf|w | It's clothing. |
| 21:11.34 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: No. But what does nudy bars and schools have to do with honesty? |
| 21:11.39 | dataw0lf|w | And if you assign morality to that, you might be starting your kids on the wrong foot. |
| 21:11.54 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, it's a *whole* lot more than clothing |
| 21:12.01 | JoshH | Jayce^: what store were you talking about? |
| 21:12.10 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: And that's your problem. |
| 21:12.26 | Jayce^ | JoshH, don't remember the name, but it's a adult store in west slc |
| 21:12.30 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: honesty, as in, not attempting to keep my kids in a fairytale land til they're 16. |
| 21:12.46 | dataw0lf|w | JoshH: Probably Blue Boutique. |
| 21:12.47 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: Uhh, that's not quite accurate. |
| 21:12.49 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, no, it's the purpose of the clothing, it does very specific things, that my kids don't need to worry about until they are older |
| 21:12.55 | JoshH | if its like the blue boutique, i know all the dildos and stuff are in a completely separate part of the store behind a curtain that you have to show id to get into, nothing you can see from walking past the store. |
| 21:12.59 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: it turns you on? |
| 21:13.02 | dataw0lf|w | That's cool. |
| 21:13.13 | dataw0lf|w | Not my thing, but I can see where you're coming from. |
| 21:13.55 | JoshH | but i dont have a problem with zoning laws... i simply dont think that the lds church should sue the city i live in to prevent me from having the right to go to a strip club, if i want to. for the record, i dont go to any strip clubs. |
| 21:14.11 | dataw0lf|w | However, you do realize that YOU'RE the one assigning these sexual ties to that piece of cloth. |
| 21:14.13 | dataw0lf|w | No kid is doing it |
| 21:14.18 | Jayce^ | JoshH, so it's ok if the *really* bad stuff is hidden, but the teaser stuff is fine? |
| 21:14.32 | dataw0lf|w | For the record, I do go to strip clubs. |
| 21:14.37 | dataw0lf|w | But just to pick up my girlfriend from work. |
| 21:14.38 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, bull.. plain and simple... it's the absolutely whole point of the stuff |
| 21:14.40 | JoshH | Jayce^: all you can see from the window is lingerie, the same kind of stuff they have at victorias secret in the mall |
| 21:14.58 | JoshH | and nobody throws a fit when their kid can walk past a victorias secret |
| 21:15.00 | hans | and obviously since it's in the mall it must be ok |
| 21:15.16 | Jayce^ | JoshH, hehe, actually, a lot of people do |
| 21:15.20 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: You're telling me that if you walked your kids past a store like that they'd be like 'Damn, Dad, that stuff is SEXXXXXY!!!' |
| 21:15.23 | Bradipo | Since we're on the topic, any of you read: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0761516638/qid=1114722749/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/103-2773588-7752626?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 |
| 21:15.27 | JoshH | lol, ive never noticed it then. :P |
| 21:15.30 | hans | a lot of (non-member) new mexicans have issues with the mall in general. we didn't even have a victoria's secret |
| 21:15.33 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: Again, you're the one who is assigning the morality to the lingerie. |
| 21:15.47 | dataw0lf|w | Alot of people don't believe it's evil. |
| 21:15.56 | dataw0lf|w | Nor unfit for kids to see in a window some place. |
| 21:16.07 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, wrong again.. |
| 21:16.19 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: You're telling me I'm wrong? |
| 21:16.49 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: Eye of the beholder. I see lingerie, I say 'meh, whatever' you see it and you seem to have a rather horny reaction. Let's calm down the hormones, pal. |
| 21:17.19 | Jayce^ | yes, I'm not assigning morality to the lingerie, I'm assigning it to the purpose of the store, and it's sales, especially to the locality |
| 21:17.20 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: Certainly the clothes themselves aren't evil, neither is a gun, neither is a rope, neither is a knife... It's how they are used that makes them morally right or wrong. |
| 21:17.30 | hans | dataw0lf|w: psychic powers of knowing Jayce^'s state of mind aside, it's probably just a case of desensitization |
| 21:17.39 | Jayce^ | hans++ |
| 21:17.47 | dataw0lf|w | hans: 'Desensitization' ? |
| 21:17.53 | dataw0lf|w | No I'm unsensitive? |
| 21:17.56 | dataw0lf|w | Now* |
| 21:18.02 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: Its what we do with them. mankind has a morality problem, not the earth. |
| 21:18.03 | hans | not unsensitive |
| 21:18.08 | levi | I think it's more a matter of cultural value differences. |
| 21:18.10 | hans | or insensitive |
| 21:18.12 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: So.... if I have sex with my girlfriend whilst she is wearing the lingerie, the lingerie is evil. |
| 21:18.17 | JoshH | everyones morals are different. personally, i just think that anyone who has a problem with victorias secret should just keep their kids away from the mall. |
| 21:18.25 | JoshH | anyone who has a problem with guns should keep their kids out of cabelas |
| 21:18.44 | dataw0lf|w | I still don't see how lingerie is evil in any sense, whatsoever. |
| 21:18.56 | dataw0lf|w | Unless, like, it gets possessed by an evil spirit and goes on a murderous rampage. |
| 21:18.59 | Bradipo | JoshH: Hard to do unless we return to our Christian roots. |
| 21:19.06 | dataw0lf|w | Now, if that were the case, sure, let's pull the damn store away from the school. |
| 21:19.18 | hans | dataw0lf|w: I'm not passing judgement on you, I'm just making an observation. you told us you go to strip clubs, so are we surprised that lingerie in a window doesn't seem like a big deal to you? |
| 21:19.23 | JoshH | christian roots? i thought most of the founding fathers actually leaned agnostic. |
| 21:19.43 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, because you see no problem with the message it conveys, hence hans' comment |
| 21:19.51 | dataw0lf|w | What message does it convey?? |
| 21:19.52 | hans | whether you call that desensitization or "becoming accustomed" or "healthy sexuality" is beside the point. it's a real phenomenon |
| 21:20.07 | Jayce^ | JoshH, you really should read a bit more of washington and jefferson's writings |
| 21:20.29 | dataw0lf|w | you're telling me, that if your kids walk past lingerie every day, you have a fear that they'll turn out 1) bad 2) abnormal 3) weird forms of sexual fetish as they get older ? |
| 21:20.38 | JoshH | Jayce^: from what ive read, i dont think they would want morality to be legislated, at least not to the extent that it is. |
| 21:20.39 | dataw0lf|w | That's ridiculous. |
| 21:20.41 | Bradipo | JoshH: Actually, I don't know for certain. Would be an interesting discussion given the right set of facts. But documents I have read seem to indicate that our current laws were based on Biblical Laws, Common Law and then Commercial Law. |
| 21:21.06 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, that' they'll learn about important things form a world view, instead of where they should learn it (parents).. |
| 21:21.09 | hans | dataw0lf|w: and yet you object to violent TV and movies (iirc) |
| 21:21.15 | Bradipo | How can our laws be based on Biblical laws if they were agnostic... |
| 21:21.23 | Jayce^ | and at an age when they are unprepared for it |
| 21:21.39 | hans | it's just that you find violence despicable but you do not find extramarital sex descpicable. Some here do |
| 21:21.43 | hans | as in many of us |
| 21:21.44 | dataw0lf|w | hans: I don't really object, I just think that violence is much, much worse on a child / person / animal then sexuality is. |
| 21:21.56 | JoshH | Bradipo: do you mean like the 10 commandments, or some other biblical law... im not too familiar with the bible. :) |
| 21:21.58 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: what are they learning from the lingerie though? |
| 21:22.03 | hans | dataw0lf|w: right. and some of us believe it's just as bad |
| 21:22.03 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, why worse, driven by the same r-complex |
| 21:22.03 | Bradipo | JoshH: :-) |
| 21:22.16 | JoshH | but the ten commandments are basically common sense... dont kill, dont steal, etc |
| 21:22.16 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: Ever had sex before? |
| 21:22.25 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, objectification |
| 21:22.26 | Bradipo | JoshH: Exactly what I mean, we need to learn. Get back to understanding. This is stuff they don't teach you anymore. |
| 21:22.27 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: Ever seen someone's head blown off in front of you? |
| 21:22.31 | *** part/#utah spr (~spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 21:22.35 | dataw0lf|w | I can guarantee, from personal experience, the latter is worse. |
| 21:22.41 | dataw0lf|w | mentally / emotionally. |
| 21:22.45 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, I'm a parent, and I haven't seen a head, but seen plenty of violence |
| 21:22.54 | Jayce^ | try walking the favelas sometime |
| 21:22.58 | JoshH | Bradipo: i do think the bible should be taught in church, not school. i have owned bibles before, just never bothered to read much of them. |
| 21:23.03 | Jayce^ | you'll see the worst of both of those |
| 21:23.24 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: I was in several combat situations, and grew up in East Chicago and Gary, I've seen both as well. |
| 21:23.43 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, the worst of the US has *nothing* on a favela |
| 21:23.45 | dataw0lf|w | Yet, see, there is a form of 'healthy' sex. I don't see an equivalent in violence. |
| 21:23.52 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: What about Iraq? |
| 21:23.54 | Jayce^ | or most of the philipenes for that case |
| 21:23.55 | dataw0lf|w | or Afghanistan? |
| 21:23.56 | dataw0lf|w | or Israel? |
| 21:24.15 | JoshH | actually i think a huge reason that the middle east is so messed up is because of the sexual repression |
| 21:24.16 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, very different in the sexual part of the favela |
| 21:24.27 | JoshH | the guys there arent even allowed to see an uncovered woman until they get married |
| 21:24.30 | JoshH | man, can you imagine that? |
| 21:24.41 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: the 'sexual' part? Explain. |
| 21:24.44 | dataw0lf|w | Do you mean a red light? |
| 21:24.46 | Jayce^ | JoshH, most of them do, but only the woman will get punished for doing it |
| 21:24.52 | dataw0lf|w | I've seen various red lights throughout Africa and Europe. |
| 21:24.58 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, something you'd have to see, very different from a red light |
| 21:25.20 | Jayce^ | yeah, I've seen asian and south american red-lights, a favela contains something *very* different |
| 21:25.25 | JoshH | Jayce^: it is screwed up, definitely. |
| 21:26.02 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: You do understand my point of 'healthy sex' versus 'healthy violence' though? |
| 21:26.08 | Jayce^ | JoshH, yeah, my in-laws have lived in Saudi several times, being an american there (non-military) gives some new perspectives |
| 21:26.27 | hans | ~nslookup ns.wencor.com |
| 21:26.43 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, I know that difference, what you experience in one of these areas though is the bad side of so called 'healthy sex' |
| 21:27.00 | Jayce^ | what happens to societies after that has taken over |
| 21:27.00 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: Why, obviously there is forms of bad sex. |
| 21:27.12 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: but there isn't a form of healthy violence, correct? |
| 21:27.14 | JoshH | like rape or incest, child abuse, etc |
| 21:27.17 | dataw0lf|w | unless you can point one out. |
| 21:27.17 | Bradipo | Hmm, reminds me a lot of Pompei... |
| 21:27.20 | JoshH | but thats nothing to do with lingerie or porn |
| 21:27.39 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: I never argued that sex can be destructive, of course it can. |
| 21:27.40 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, healthy violence, like boxing, judo, etc.. |
| 21:27.49 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: That's not violence. |
| 21:28.05 | hans | boxing looks a lot like violence to me. |
| 21:28.12 | Jayce^ | sure it is, same emotions, same brain involvement |
| 21:28.15 | Jayce^ | (r-complex) |
| 21:28.32 | dataw0lf|w | Alot of crap comes from the same source, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the same thing. |
| 21:28.44 | dataw0lf|w | And I certainly don't categorize boxing or anything of that nature in with violence. |
| 21:28.48 | Jayce^ | basically, you look at the parts of the brain, and the chemicals used in your body during sex and violence, and voila, it's the exact same core section |
| 21:28.50 | dataw0lf|w | Apparently you haven't seen 'violence' before. |
| 21:29.12 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, actually, I have, very bad stuff at that.. |
| 21:29.16 | hans | you have convenient definitions |
| 21:29.28 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: Do we need to see violence? |
| 21:29.34 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: Certainly not. |
| 21:29.49 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: and you'd categorize boxing as 'violence' then? |
| 21:29.58 | dataw0lf|w | hans: I have convenient definitions? How so? |
| 21:30.03 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, for the competitors, most definately |
| 21:30.39 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: I've boxed for the past 5 years. I do NOT feel the same thing when I'm boxing (which is competitive, exhilirating, etc) as I do when I'm under fire, or firing at somebody in return. |
| 21:31.17 | dataw0lf|w | And I wouldn't categorize it even remotely as the same. |
| 21:31.44 | dataw0lf|w | I'm leaving you guys some openings, c'mon. |
| 21:31.49 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: And hopefully, I will be able to shield my children from the kind of sex and violence you describe. |
| 21:32.16 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: But not from all sex and violence, correct? |
| 21:32.18 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: Just because you may have witnessed those things, doesn't mean they need to, nor do I feel it is necessary for their progression. |
| 21:32.31 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: Of course not! I never said that. |
| 21:32.40 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: And hopefully, if I have taught them well, they will feel the same. |
| 21:32.54 | hans | dataw0lf|w: of course you did. you said you would be honest |
| 21:32.55 | dataw0lf|w | I'm attempting to prove the difference between something that can be emotionally and mentally destructive as opposed to something harmless (lingerie, boxing) |
| 21:33.16 | hans | so you're saying you'll protect your children from what you believe to be harmful? |
| 21:33.27 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: I'm not saying you said that, but I'm pointing out that I will do what I can to provide the best life for my children. That doesn't mean sheltered. |
| 21:33.42 | dataw0lf|w | hans: that wasn't the argument. The argument was over what WAS harmful. |
| 21:33.44 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, that's like saying "hey, I'm not drinking, it's light beer" |
| 21:33.45 | JoshH | Bradipo: you should be able to shield your children from whatever you want, but you should not be able to shield adults from whatever you want. |
| 21:33.54 | hans | dataw0lf|w: I think we all agree that we have different opinions on that |
| 21:34.00 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: You mean watching boxing is harmless? |
| 21:34.04 | dataw0lf|w | hans: well that's all we were arguing about. |
| 21:34.10 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: would you let your kids watch boxing? |
| 21:34.13 | dataw0lf|w | or football? |
| 21:34.15 | hans | no, that's what you were arguing about |
| 21:34.43 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: I would inform them as to how stupid it is to get your brains knocked out and then show them how stupid it is. |
| 21:35.01 | JoshH | basically, anyone who wants to shield their kids from boxing or victorias secret should be allowed to, but any adult who wants to see strippers or buy a keg should be allowed to. |
| 21:35.02 | dataw0lf|w | hans: apparently I've been talking to bots the whole time. |
| 21:35.11 | Bradipo | But watching two people box is not quite the same thing as watching two people engaged in sex. |
| 21:35.21 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: Which I respect, yet you won't educate your kids on the teddy? |
| 21:35.32 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: who said anything about letting your kids watch sex? |
| 21:35.35 | dataw0lf|w | I never said that. |
| 21:35.40 | dataw0lf|w | this whole argument was over a teddy. |
| 21:35.44 | dataw0lf|w | and whether it was destructive or not. |
| 21:35.55 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: What's a teddy? |
| 21:36.00 | dataw0lf|w | lingerie. |
| 21:36.08 | Bradipo | When I grew up, a teddy was a teddy bear that you took to bed with you. |
| 21:36.13 | bonez39 | leen guuurrrrr eeee.. |
| 21:36.14 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, unless it's a little kid... first time my kid saw fighting on tv, we had to have some serious time with him to keep him from doing it himself |
| 21:36.16 | bonez39 | gotta love it.. |
| 21:36.28 | Bradipo | See, we have this whole problem of terminologies getting mixed up. |
| 21:36.45 | Bradipo | Right becomes wrong, wrong becomes right. |
| 21:36.51 | bonez39 | it's the french that mess it all up with their funny sounding words |
| 21:36.55 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: that you still don't know what a teddy is seems like a personal problem. |
| 21:37.01 | Bradipo | Jayce^: Right, I meant once they arrived at an age where they could actually understand it. |
| 21:37.11 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: I was making a point. |
| 21:37.12 | bonez39 | right becomes left, left becomes fascist... |
| 21:37.26 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: it's ok, I forgive you. |
| 21:37.40 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, exactly |
| 21:37.42 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: For what, have I sinned? |
| 21:37.55 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: Yes, come for your salvation, my son. |
| 21:38.09 | Bradipo | dataw0lf|w: Are you purporting to be a God? |
| 21:38.10 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, and that's my point, it's the parents job to monitor, and judge when their kids are ready for things |
| 21:38.28 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: No! |
| 21:38.32 | dataw0lf|w | I'm purporting to be Jesus. |
| 21:38.36 | dataw0lf|w | Thank you, come again. |
| 21:39.07 | levi | So... um... how about that OSS stuff? Pretty cool, isn't it. |
| 21:39.30 | Bradipo | levi: What is OSS? |
| 21:39.42 | hans | open salad sandwiches |
| 21:39.57 | vontrapp | s/open/oyster/ |
| 21:40.01 | levi | Bradipo: See the topic, purportedly what this channel is about. |
| 21:40.02 | Jayce^ | eww |
| 21:40.28 | vontrapp | s/salad/squid |
| 21:40.38 | levi | Mmm, squid. |
| 21:40.41 | Jayce^ | speaking of oyster, what is it with people from utah|other landlocked states and their fascination with seafood... |
| 21:40.42 | levi | How about snails? |
| 21:40.51 | Jayce^ | it's *nothing* like it should be |
| 21:41.04 | Jayce^ | squid == good when fresh and cooked right |
| 21:41.08 | Bradipo | Jayce^: We don't get enough of it here. |
| 21:41.19 | vontrapp | Jayce^: i hate seafood of the landlocked variety |
| 21:41.28 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, have my share, I won't touch the stuff here |
| 21:41.40 | Bradipo | Well, it isn't any good here. |
| 21:41.43 | Bradipo | I don't blame you. |
| 21:42.17 | Jayce^ | of course, I've lost the taste, and am afraid to eat it when I go home |
| 21:42.38 | Bradipo | And yes, squid is good. The first time I had squid in Italy it was tough to take in, but after that I learned to enjoy it. |
| 21:42.55 | Bradipo | In fact, I've been craving some good stuffed squid for a long time now. |
| 21:43.18 | Bradipo | levi: Sorry, we're talking about food instead of OSS. |
| 21:43.23 | Jayce^ | remember feeding missionaries tempura squid, they told us they'd never eat the stuff, after the fact :) |
| 21:43.23 | hans | i had an oyster once and the next day every single muscle in my body ached. I'm not exaggerating |
| 21:43.24 | Bradipo | :-) |
| 21:43.28 | hans | I think it was an allergic reaction |
| 21:43.33 | Jayce^ | hans, likely |
| 21:44.13 | levi | hans: You should probably not eat any more oysters. |
| 21:44.28 | Jayce^ | especially when there are 'red tide' warnings out :) |
| 21:44.33 | hans | that's the plan |
| 21:44.55 | bonez39 | hans: you are bonefied allergic...stay away from the oysters.. |
| 21:45.31 | bonez39 | hans: did your lips even feel sore? literally every muscle...eyes....nose? ... |
| 21:46.19 | hans | no eye ear nose stuff, but iirc thing like my cheeks were sore |
| 21:46.33 | hans | it wasn't so bad I couldn't go out tracting |
| 21:46.41 | hans | just way uncomfortable |
| 21:49.19 | Jayce^ | hey hans, did you install gvim/ cocoa vim on your box yet? or just keep the default? |
| 21:49.24 | Jayce^ | and did you do it with fink or ports? |
| 21:50.06 | hans | I got the gvim from vim.org (which was a link to some macvim site or something) |
| 21:50.13 | hans | not fink or ports |
| 21:50.17 | Jayce^ | ok, the binary then |
| 21:50.22 | Jayce^ | can you edit via scp? |
| 21:50.31 | hans | so far, I'm liking ports more than fink |
| 21:50.35 | Jayce^ | the ports one seems to be giving me problems with that, not sure if I didn't enable |
| 21:50.37 | Jayce^ | ditto |
| 21:50.38 | hans | Jayce^: haven't tried. I don't really do that much |
| 21:51.35 | hans | I like ports variants. seems like USE flag done right. does BSD do the same thing? |
| 21:51.54 | Jayce^ | yes |
| 21:52.20 | hans | pretty slick. one of these days I'll try a BSD |
| 21:52.52 | Jayce^ | hopefully before you leave, we're having a lug on "*BSD for Linux Users" |
| 21:52.58 | hans | compile time is a downer though. I wonder if some sort of p2p binary distribution could work |
| 21:53.11 | Jayce^ | hans, you've seen the -b (binary) flag haven't you? |
| 21:53.34 | hans | no, but I'm guessing it just downloads a binary? does that work for variants? |
| 21:53.44 | hans | although compiling in the case when you want a variant is ok |
| 21:54.05 | Jayce^ | it should download that variant type |
| 21:54.16 | Jayce^ | if one is available |
| 21:54.55 | hans | cool |
| 22:00.32 | hans | I'm a little dissapointed I can't find a place to say "open all text documents with vim by default" instead of textedit |
| 22:00.39 | hans | textedit seems better than notepad, but still |
| 22:03.54 | levi | hans: I think there's a way to do it... |
| 22:04.17 | levi | hans: Try getting info on a text file, and see if there's something to change it there. |
| 22:04.32 | hans | levi: I've managed to get all .txt files and all files created by gvim |
| 22:05.08 | hans | but random text files with different extensions for example - it says "text file" in the 3rd panel but isn't associated with vim |
| 22:06.34 | vontrapp | how would i use mplayer to record an audio stream from the internet? |
| 22:12.49 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 22:13.16 | vontrapp | mencoder mms://url -o debate.wmv gives me Video stream is mandatory! |
| 22:13.22 | vontrapp | it's an audio stream |
| 22:13.26 | vontrapp | ~lart mplayer |
| 22:14.03 | vontrapp | why can't mplayer be easy, like convert |
| 22:14.36 | findlay | how does everyone feel about this sublime symphony by Saint-Saëns we're listening to |
| 22:14.48 | hans | findlay: subtle bondage |
| 22:14.56 | fungus | mplayer -cache 32 -vc dummy -vo null -ao pcm -aofile fifo$DATE $URL |
| 22:15.20 | findlay | hans: i guess you're right (: |
| 22:16.59 | *** join/#utah RyanBE (~ryan@001-720-458.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:16.59 | fungus | then read the fifo with lame |
| 22:17.30 | findlay | that's lame |
| 22:19.05 | vontrapp | is that fifo raw audio? |
| 22:19.20 | fungus | PCM wav file. |
| 22:21.51 | fungus | http://grimthing.com/archives/2004/05/20/recording-streaming-audio-with-mplayer/ |
| 22:21.52 | vontrapp | fungus: how could i direct that to stdout? |
| 22:22.20 | fungus | mplayer can't output to stdout. that is why a fifo is required. |
| 22:22.21 | RyanBE | you're just trying to capture wav output from mplayer? |
| 22:22.33 | findlay | slower than ext3 in some things |
| 22:22.48 | vontrapp | RyanBE: yes |
| 22:22.51 | RyanBE | reiser: good for many small files, bad for few large files. |
| 22:22.55 | hans | fungus: that's just messed up |
| 22:23.00 | RyanBE | I used some program to do that... Let me see if I can locate it. |
| 22:23.05 | fungus | hans, agreed |
| 22:23.13 | vontrapp | ~lart mplayer again |
| 22:24.49 | fungus | you could also use mplayer -dumpstream -dumpfile filename.wmv if you don't want to re-encode it. |
| 22:25.09 | vontrapp | can i pipe stderr to a program? |
| 22:26.29 | findlay | ibot: how many times have you eaten mplayer? |
| 22:27.34 | fungus | not unless you combine it with stdout. |
| 22:27.44 | fungus | or use another fifo. :) |
| 22:28.05 | vontrapp | ~lart another fifo |
| 22:28.22 | vontrapp | go ibot! |
| 22:28.28 | hans | on a roll today |
| 22:29.02 | fungus | I just start lame on a brand new empty fifo in the background and fire off mplayer outputting the wav file to it. It works ok. |
| 22:30.37 | vontrapp | yeah, but you should be able to use pipes |
| 22:30.42 | RyanBE | trplayer |
| 22:30.49 | RyanBE | oops |
| 22:30.50 | RyanBE | sorry |
| 22:31.18 | RyanBE | you run vsound, then you run your player, and it puts it out as a wav. |
| 22:31.29 | RyanBE | that's how I did it with some RealAudio streams. |
| 22:31.45 | RyanBE | vsound 'captures' the wav output for the program you run on it's commandline. |
| 22:33.37 | vontrapp | but then i can't listen to music while it goes |
| 22:33.58 | RyanBE | sorry |
| 22:34.07 | RyanBE | I think you could run aplay on the wav output as it goes |
| 22:34.17 | vontrapp | is there a switch to make mplayer not care about realtime and playback just as fast as it can get it? |
| 22:34.21 | RyanBE | but I don't know if I did that. |
| 22:34.36 | RyanBE | vontrapp: good luck with that. |
| 22:34.39 | *** part/#utah RyanBE (~ryan@001-720-458.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:34.41 | vontrapp | :( |
| 22:35.16 | fungus | AFAIK streams will only output in realtime. that is the point of a stream. |
| 22:36.23 | vontrapp | but it's not a live stream |
| 22:36.40 | fungus | hmm, then I am not sure. |
| 22:38.34 | fungus | This is what I do to record live radio streams. |
| 22:38.36 | fungus | http://www.kittypee.com/recordstream.txt |
| 22:40.16 | fungus | my script fires off at the beginning of the radio show and a `killall mplayer` fires off at the end. |
| 22:45.58 | vontrapp | speaking of mplayer |
| 22:46.08 | vontrapp | has anyone had any success ripping dvd's with mplayer? |
| 22:46.14 | vontrapp | i always get the sound way off |
| 22:47.40 | vontrapp | and i mean WAY off |
| 22:48.02 | findlay | maybe you need to spin your hard drove faster |
| 22:48.24 | findlay | something like /sbin/hdparm --spin-it-faster=1000000 RPMs |
| 22:48.34 | vontrapp | how does that matter? |
| 22:48.35 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 22:48.42 | findlay | ? |
| 22:48.48 | findlay | don't know |
| 22:48.56 | vontrapp | the video and sound should be written together |
| 22:48.57 | findlay | just a suggestion |
| 22:49.37 | *** part/#utah fungus (~fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 22:49.53 | vontrapp | ah, there goes the resident mplayer guru |
| 22:50.11 | findlay | maybe your hard drive is tired and needs a rest |
| 22:50.41 | vontrapp | it plays properly encoded videos just fine |
| 22:52.28 | vontrapp | but my hard drive does need a rest, it needs a 250G hard drive to spill it for a (very long) while |
| 22:53.03 | findlay | why not just mount the DVD and copy the files off? |
| 22:56.17 | vontrapp | i just get a bunch of special stuff for computers |
| 22:56.33 | vontrapp | e.g. fun flash programs and images |
| 22:57.25 | bonez39 | anyone know why BYU doesn't do credit cards? |
| 22:57.51 | bonez39 | my wife and a friend went to wymens conference there today...said they wouldn't take any plastic, only checks or cash.. |
| 22:58.30 | bucky | credit cards charge a transaction fee |
| 22:58.51 | bonez39 | checks bounce sometimes..with cc..it's there now....verified.. |
| 22:58.54 | vontrapp | i guess it depends on where you go, i've been places at byu that take card |
| 22:58.57 | vontrapp | like the bookstore |
| 22:59.15 | bonez39 | so it's just in keeping with traditional utah 'cheapness'? they don't want to afford customers that convenience..... |
| 22:59.16 | findlay | vontrapp: you don't get AUDIO_TS or VIDEO_TS direcories |
| 22:59.34 | vontrapp | i have a video_ts |
| 22:59.43 | bucky | 'cheapness'? you mean thrift? |
| 23:00.10 | findlay | the audio/video data should be there |
| 23:00.22 | findlay | look at the files by size |
| 23:00.42 | findlay | find /mnt/dvd/ | xargs du -h |
| 23:00.46 | vontrapp | ah, but what do i do with a bunch of .vob .ifo .bup .goo .mig .figlgy files? |
| 23:00.49 | findlay | or something |
| 23:01.06 | findlay | mplayer can understand them somehow |
| 23:01.22 | findlay | I guess that's probably not the complete solution |
| 23:01.43 | vontrapp | yaeah, we're back to mplayer again |
| 23:02.27 | bucky | bonez39, don't they have something like green jello tickets? |
| 23:03.06 | bonez39 | bucky: yeah, I'd think so.... |
| 23:03.30 | findlay | great |
| 23:03.34 | bucky | i need to use up that cottage cheese |
| 23:03.44 | findlay | (: |
| 23:03.47 | bonez39 | I know that when I finally bought a card terminal and printer..and started accepting cards in my office, it's been a big boost..and I am glad to pay the transaction fee....... |
| 23:04.11 | bonez39 | but I guess if you are BYU...then you can get greedy and demand only certain financial instruments....to be used. |
| 23:07.52 | vontrapp | ah, blessed dvdcss |
| 23:08.25 | jce | I think it's only the food places that don't take cards. |
| 23:10.17 | findlay | vontrapp: really, I'll have to look at it |
| 23:11.40 | vontrapp | findlay: i was talking about the fact that it has encryption, and sarcastically |
| 23:12.38 | vontrapp | i would have said just blessed css, but then you'ld have thought i was talking about stylesheets |
| 23:12.46 | findlay | oh, I thought you meant a DVD reader (: |
| 23:21.14 | bucky | ~slashdot 3 |
| 23:21.39 | bucky | levi, that link you gave me is on /. |
| 23:21.51 | levi | Yup, I saw. |
| 23:22.55 | findlay | one more day and I'll be forever free of the bandwidth nazis |
| 23:23.07 | levi | Forever? |
| 23:23.15 | findlay | well, I can hole |
| 23:23.17 | findlay | hope |
| 23:23.27 | levi | Good luck on that. :) |
| 23:23.50 | findlay | thanks |
| 23:25.28 | levi | So, UVSC finally processed my BYU credits, and most everything applied usefully. I only have one class to argue. |
| 23:25.49 | bucky | which class? |
| 23:26.04 | bucky | anthropology? |
| 23:26.17 | bucky | excel 98? |
| 23:26.17 | findlay | hopefully they won't make you take that dreaded philosophy class |
| 23:27.12 | levi | Well, the religion ones didn't, of course. The one that I want to transfer was my Intro to Comp. Theory class. |
| 23:28.28 | findlay | levi: take care of yourself, they are a nest of MS fanboys over at UVSC |
| 23:30.07 | levi | findlay: My feelings against MS aren't so strong that I can't tolerate using Windows now and again for assignments. |
| 23:30.27 | bucky | "To be is to do" ? Socrates |
| 23:30.31 | bucky | "To do is to be" ? Sartre |
| 23:30.36 | bucky | "Do be do be do" ? Sinatra |
| 23:30.48 | levi | findlay: And, given my taste in programming languages and the like, do you think they're really going to sway me? ;) |
| 23:31.55 | bucky | It's good bike weather!! |
| 23:32.21 | levi | Right now? Isn't it kind of cold and windy? |
| 23:32.23 | findlay | I don't know, just be sure you aren't subliminally indoctrinated in C# |
| 23:32.27 | findlay | (: |
| 23:32.53 | levi | findlay: Why would I be swayed by C# when I've got Lisp?! ;) |
| 23:33.18 | findlay | true, but is there a lisp compiler for mono? |
| 23:33.41 | levi | I think there are some sort of lisp variants for the CLR. |
| 23:33.57 | bucky | C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg |
| 23:34.00 | bucky | Bjarne Stroustrup |
| 23:34.29 | findlay | that's one of my favorite quotes (: |
| 23:35.58 | bucky | Within C++, there is a much smaller and cleaner language struggling to get out. (Bjarne Stroustrup) |
| 23:36.18 | bucky | C++: Simula in wolf's clothing. (Bjarne Stroustrup) |
| 23:37.20 | bucky | You needed a cool name to put on a T-shirt, and you needed a T-shirt to give to people. It was part of getting people excited enough to work 70 hours a week. (Erich Ringewald of Apple) |
| 23:38.30 | bucky | Pessimists, we're told, look at a glass containing 50% air and 50% water and see it as half empty. Optimists, in contrast, see it as half full. Engineers, of course, understand the glass is twice as big as it needs to be. (Bob Lewis) |
| 23:38.36 | findlay | bucky: fortune? |
| 23:38.47 | bucky | i should put these in fortune |
| 23:39.04 | findlay | fortune-mod-bucky |
| 23:39.36 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-67-161-242-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:40.01 | bucky | i won one of those RSA shirts - "It's only an algorihm" |
| 23:46.09 | bucky | my shirts come from DI |
| 23:46.25 | mrpull | single? ;-) |
| 23:46.38 | levi | Heh, my friends who are mountain biking at the moment are getting drenched, I think. |
| 23:47.11 | bucky | matcho matcho men |
| 23:48.06 | findlay | window? |
| 23:48.29 | findlay | oh, the viewport to the Out-Side |
| 23:48.44 | mrpull | there is only one window in this entire building |
| 23:49.16 | bucky | utah state mental hospital ? |
| 23:49.30 | mrpull | kind of |
| 23:49.39 | mrpull | windows are a security hazard |
| 23:49.54 | bucky | but the inmates run the place, right? |
| 23:50.20 | mrpull | exactly |
| 23:51.17 | findlay | levi: someone I know at UVSC showed me once this script he wrote to rip off all the school mandated spyware and sureveillance software without the lab aide even knowing about it, it was really cool |
| 23:51.36 | findlay | at least disable it temporarily for the session |
| 23:51.48 | levi | Heh, nice. |
| 23:52.01 | levi | I hope to not need to use the labs there much. |
| 23:52.49 | findlay | yeah, they've also got wireless, and the ubiquitous ethernet ports you would expect at a school |
| 23:52.53 | mrpull | levi... they have wifi and ethernet |
| 23:53.05 | mrpull | you've got a ibook right? |
| 23:53.15 | levi | No, I have an eMac. |
| 23:53.22 | mrpull | ooohh..nm then |
| 23:53.35 | levi | I also have a Sony Vaio Picturebook, but its battery is dead. |
| 23:58.16 | levi | I wouldn't mind having an iBook, though. Or a Powerbook, even. |
| 23:59.05 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (~chatzilla@c-67-161-243-72.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:59.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Does anyone know of any open source payroll-running-type software? |