| 00:19.12 | findlay | ha |
| 00:19.47 | findlay | it's the information age, come on, sjansen, geeet with it, the paperless office |
| 00:20.05 | findlay | s/geeet/get/ |
| 00:23.00 | findlay | Thompson thought atoms were like plum pudding, but then Rutherford found that some alpha particles would deflect off the nucleus |
| 00:23.27 | findlay | puddingl I guess |
| 00:37.47 | levi | Mmm, atom pudding. |
| 00:52.34 | goozbach | emcnabb around? |
| 00:52.44 | goozbach | or sjansen? |
| 00:52.54 | goozbach | or peregrine? |
| 00:52.56 | sjansen | goozbach: just walked back into the room |
| 00:53.24 | goozbach | I just wanted to gloat. |
| 00:53.40 | sjansen | go ahead |
| 00:53.51 | goozbach | i just got a medal for teaching |
| 00:54.04 | sjansen | you'll have to blog that |
| 00:54.10 | goozbach | commander's coin |
| 00:54.33 | sjansen | what makes it better than emcnabb's two cakes? |
| 00:54.33 | levi | I got a coin and certificate for volunteering at an Army office doing computer tech stuff. |
| 00:55.02 | goozbach | emcnabb didn't get a coin |
| 00:55.25 | sjansen | you can't eat a coin |
| 00:55.32 | goozbach | for teacing the same thing for the same people |
| 00:56.06 | sjansen | they probably decided you didn't need more sugar |
| 00:56.18 | sjansen | picture? |
| 00:56.49 | goozbach | not yet |
| 00:56.50 | sjansen | What the?! It's Thursday?!!! |
| 00:57.09 | goozbach | i'll take n upload one later |
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| 00:59.15 | sjansen | okay, can't really compliment you on how nice it looks until I see it |
| 00:59.18 | goozbach | so i stick my tongue @ emcnabb |
| 01:01.09 | goozbach | food |
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| 01:27.08 | findlay | mheath: glad it can hold your weight |
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| 03:20.16 | xbmodder_lappy | hey |
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| 03:48.26 | Maquis | funny quote from a friend of mine at the university of washington: "it's scary... people here get married young! i mean, they're 25 and getting married" |
| 03:49.08 | findlay | hey Maquis, want to get married? |
| 03:49.20 | Maquis | ~lart findlay |
| 03:49.35 | Maquis | :) |
| 03:50.05 | Maquis | why in the world did you emerge KDE |
| 03:50.06 | Maquis | ? |
| 03:50.14 | findlay | now it's gnome's turn |
| 03:50.15 | LeviHome | KDE is nice. |
| 03:50.22 | Maquis | findlay: wait.. |
| 03:50.25 | LeviHome | I think Gnome is nicer at the moment. |
| 03:50.32 | Maquis | you're using gentoo, and emerging gnome *and* kde??? |
| 03:50.34 | LeviHome | But they're both nice these days. |
| 03:50.36 | Maquis | are you crazy? |
| 03:50.50 | LeviHome | Maquis: obviously yes. :) |
| 03:50.53 | Maquis | but... you're using gentoo |
| 03:51.04 | findlay | yup |
| 03:51.11 | Maquis | if you're going to install both of those, why use gentoo? i mean... |
| 03:51.22 | findlay | GNOME+KDE is one of the few duplicates I still have around |
| 03:51.23 | LeviHome | gentoo users are supposed to use minimalistic window managers like EvilWM or whatever. |
| 03:51.39 | Maquis | LeviHome: exactly |
| 03:51.46 | findlay | I like lots of fancy GUI stuff |
| 03:51.47 | Maquis | or even fluxbox or fvwm |
| 03:51.51 | findlay | it makes me feel special |
| 03:52.02 | LeviHome | Because they still haven't figured out that unix is something that ought to be hidden as completely as possible. |
| 03:52.02 | Maquis | findlay: you have interesting ways of feeling special |
| 03:52.14 | findlay | therefore I use (and I do actually *use* both of them) KDE and GNOME |
| 03:52.35 | findlay | that's why I emerged evolution and openoffice and blender |
| 03:52.49 | findlay | lots of pretty wigets and stuff |
| 03:53.09 | findlay | what can I say? I love free software (: |
| 03:54.33 | Maquis | :) |
| 03:54.57 | Maquis | i mean, c'mon... they encourage people to store lots of info on their email... |
| 03:55.24 | Maquis | and now they're tracking your search history... paying attention to what you look for, and what sites you actually visit from those searches... |
| 03:55.51 | Maquis | and they have satellite images of everything... |
| 03:56.01 | findlay | Maquis: eventually the earth will be littered with hard drives so that google can keep increasing their gmail storage etc. |
| 03:56.02 | LeviHome | 1) Trying to make your search experience better, and 2) Trying to make money |
| 03:56.28 | findlay | google actually seems benevolent with information |
| 03:56.29 | Maquis | LeviHome: but what if they are doing something more... dangerous? |
| 03:56.44 | findlay | Maquis: what could they do? |
| 03:57.04 | LeviHome | Maquis: You think they're collaborating with the aliens? |
| 03:57.05 | Maquis | findlay: who knows... maybe it's a conspiracy? |
| 03:57.11 | Maquis | LeviHome: possibly... |
| 03:57.18 | Maquis | mindguard doesn't protect us against this... |
| 03:58.19 | Maquis | :) |
| 03:59.39 | findlay | but you're using tin of all things! |
| 03:59.43 | findlay | ~wiki tin |
| 04:22.14 | findlay | ooooh, look at those pretty panel tooltips |
| 04:22.28 | findlay | useless, partially annoying animation, but pretty |
| 04:23.35 | findlay | I guess I do keep enlightenment around for the sake of argument. What WM do you use Maquis? If you even get out of FB console (-: |
| 04:26.33 | LeviHome | findlay: Have you seen the Unix Haters Handbook? |
| 04:28.13 | findlay | LeviHome: no |
| 04:28.26 | LeviHome | You might find it entertaining. |
| 04:28.36 | LeviHome | It's available in pdf form online. |
| 04:37.16 | tensai | would you eat a meal if the cook was smoking a cigar the whole time? |
| 04:37.59 | tensai | these guys on pbs are not making me hungry |
| 04:38.08 | findlay | ~uptime |
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| 06:21.17 | indessed | Hey, does anyone around here get Comcast internet? I just signed up with them and want to know what sort of taxes/fees I can expect tacked onto my bill. |
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| 07:04.41 | Maquis | GAH!!! |
| 07:04.47 | Maquis | i'm never going to be all packed!!! |
| 12:42.15 | Mecworks | same here. |
| 12:42.43 | Mecworks | going camping. You always remember something you forgot to do once you get there. |
| 12:42.50 | Mecworks | Maquis, you heading home for the summer? |
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| 13:46.17 | Maquis | Mecworks: yup |
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| 14:05.20 | hans | Maquis: if you're not on IRC during the summer, remember to read some CS research papers |
| 14:05.34 | hans | especially ones published by the professors you'll have this fall |
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| 14:14.19 | hans | ~welcome tensai |
| 14:14.21 | ibot | Howdy tensai | It is good to see you tensai | tensai, Sup yo? |
| 14:16.25 | tensai | ~nullify hans |
| 14:16.27 | ibot | hans = NULL; |
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| 14:24.44 | Maquis | hans: i'll probably be logged in (i'm running this off the cs dept now, instead of ff my server), but i don't know how often i'll actually be able to come visit |
| 14:35.00 | bonez39 | I have asked about registrars for domain names (if that's even the correct term)..anyway, my wife's domain is coming up for renewal..it's currently with network solutions..any recommendations? godaddy? namecheap? |
| 14:36.59 | tensai | I've been satisfied with godaddy |
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| 14:53.55 | sjansen | hans: Can't you just go into about:config and enable opening tabs on middle click? Oh, wait... |
| 15:00.20 | sjansen | http://www.relevancellc.com/blogs/?p=36#comment-545 |
| 15:05.55 | Uncle_Jesse | my ibook crashed last night and messed up all my settings |
| 15:06.01 | Uncle_Jesse | we're on bad terms right now |
| 15:24.29 | hans | sjansen: command-click isn't all that much more work than middle click. option-command click is. |
| 15:24.56 | hans | but point well taken. but judging by von's experience I don't feel the least bit cheated with my one-button trackpad |
| 15:25.53 | hans | sjansen: that has to be the cutest database error I've seen. |
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| 15:26.08 | hans | ~lart lukfu |
| 15:26.19 | sjansen | oh, is it being slashdotted now? |
| 15:26.25 | lukfugl | ~lart hans |
| 15:28.04 | sjansen | Guess that's what you get for using PHP. ;-) |
| 15:30.09 | sjansen | Funny thing is, the comment is after a blog post asking what Rails still needs. Rails makes it very easy to static render so that you don't max DB connections under load spikes. |
| 15:30.38 | hans | heh |
| 15:31.05 | levi | You could at least cache things. You can even make apache do the work for you. |
| 15:32.10 | lukfugl | what's happened? |
| 15:32.13 | hans | hehe |
| 15:32.15 | hans | http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aKaSwoRYgZvc&refer=us |
| 15:32.30 | hans | sjansen posted a link that doesn't work. he's blaming php and slashdot. |
| 15:32.48 | sjansen | actually, planet.gnome.org probably |
| 15:33.01 | sjansen | or maybe planetsuse.org |
| 15:33.03 | sjansen | or both |
| 15:33.54 | sjansen | We have to wait until 2pm? This is the information age, I want my information now! |
| 15:35.24 | hans | it gives us time to speculate. I bet she murdered someone and is using the finger to clear herself (not very bright) |
| 15:35.49 | hans | or perhaps she cut off someone's finger and had to get rid of it in a jiffy. oh, look - there's a wendy's! |
| 15:38.19 | vontrapp | so what was the 'cute' db error? |
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| 15:39.29 | sjansen | I'm thinking something more macbre. She knows someone that works in a morgue and they hatched a plan to extort money from Wendy's--because everyone knows it has less vicious lawyers than McDonald's after the whole coffee incident. |
| 15:39.56 | hans | that's a good theory too |
| 15:40.02 | hans | vontrapp: nothing special, just looked nice. |
| 15:40.15 | vontrapp | ~spell macbre |
| 15:40.41 | vontrapp | dict macabre |
| 15:40.47 | vontrapp | ~dict macabre |
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| 15:41.57 | sjansen | vontrapp: imagine a room full of decapitated human heads with slowly growing blood pools under each head, that's macabre |
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| 15:43.38 | sjansen | disturbing, usually involving death and human body parts, strangely titillating on a level you don't want to acknowledge |
| 15:45.13 | dataw0lf|w | that sounds sexy, not macabre! |
| 15:45.48 | vontrapp | eww |
| 15:46.03 | vontrapp | i was just checking if it was the word i thought it was |
| 15:46.07 | vontrapp | it was :) |
| 15:46.19 | levi | Hmm, dataw0lf sounds like one of those goth freaks. ;) |
| 15:46.26 | dataw0lf|w | haha. |
| 15:46.36 | dataw0lf|w | Goth? *shudders* |
| 15:46.42 | dataw0lf|w | OMG I am a vampire! |
| 15:47.12 | levi | Well, getting turned on by macabre stuff is a pretty good indication. |
| 15:47.15 | vontrapp | stay off my levis! filthy vampire |
| 15:47.32 | vontrapp | "I am a vampire and ..." |
| 15:47.34 | dataw0lf|w | ha.. I'm one of those... unstakeable... vampires.. yeah.. |
| 15:48.21 | vontrapp | Oh no! they got him! |
| 15:48.30 | vontrapp | dataw0lf|w, i pine for you *sob* |
| 15:49.00 | dataw0lf|w | write all about it in your Live Journal! |
| 15:49.26 | levi | Go find a WoD MUSH, guys. ;) |
| 15:49.45 | dataw0lf|w | haha. |
| 15:49.54 | dataw0lf|w | I'll stick the Tolkien MUDs, kthnx. |
| 15:50.00 | dataw0lf|w | *with |
| 15:50.40 | beandog | Im gonna buy a pchdtv 3k |
| 15:50.43 | beandog | Anyone else want one |
| 15:51.15 | beandog | Actually I dont feel like waiting. |
| 15:51.17 | beandog | :) |
| 15:51.21 | mrpull | uh oh... the gmail honeymoon may be over for me |
| 15:51.24 | lukfugl | ~lart Ilias Lazaridis |
| 15:51.33 | lukfugl | that's not good enough ibot |
| 15:51.45 | mrpull | these new ads/feeds at the top of the inbox are annoying |
| 15:51.46 | lukfugl | ~lart Ilias Lazaridis for being a total insane git |
| 15:51.51 | vontrapp | beandog: were you the one asking on the uug list? |
| 15:52.03 | hans | and here I thought macabre had to do with tying knots in white rope |
| 15:52.04 | beandog | no |
| 15:52.16 | beandog | Im not even on there |
| 15:52.33 | vontrapp | there's someone on uug that's going to buy a bunch in bulk to save about $5-$10 per card |
| 15:52.51 | beandog | Yah, I think I saw a crosspost about that somewhere. |
| 15:52.52 | vontrapp | you can contact him to add you bulk |
| 15:52.59 | beandog | nah, Im too impatient. |
| 15:53.22 | hans | mrpull: I don't see no ads |
| 15:53.23 | vontrapp | does it work tuning coax cable channels? |
| 15:53.28 | beandog | I think the 3k does. |
| 15:53.32 | hans | but the honeymoon ended long ago for me |
| 15:53.41 | vontrapp | 3k as apposed to... |
| 15:53.48 | hans | I use it for when I don't want to give out or pollute my real box |
| 15:53.48 | beandog | http://pchdtv.com/images/image005.jpg |
| 15:53.51 | mrpull | i heard people talking about them yesterday |
| 15:53.51 | vontrapp | i never married gmail... |
| 15:53.55 | mrpull | today is the first i've seen them |
| 15:54.30 | sjansen | I just create an alias on my mail server. So far I've only had to delete one alias. |
| 15:54.41 | beandog | vontrapp: the older ones |
| 15:54.43 | beandog | vontrapp: 2k, I think. |
| 15:54.46 | vontrapp | i use the + in the address |
| 15:54.58 | vontrapp | only occasionally the forms don't take it |
| 15:56.15 | levi | I think they're slowly rolling out the new features. |
| 15:56.53 | levi | mrpull: Isn't it supposed to be an rss aggregator? |
| 15:59.16 | beandog | Hmm, I wonder if I could just go by and pick one up, since theyre in Sandy. |
| 16:01.09 | mrpull | yes... but "related ads" show up there too |
| 16:01.12 | lukfugl | mrpull: seen what? |
| 16:01.24 | hans | gcc 4 |
| 16:01.28 | mrpull | luk: ads at the top of gmail |
| 16:01.36 | mrpull | (with rss mixed in) |
| 16:01.48 | lukfugl | gcc 4 has banner ads? (I'm confused, lacking context) |
| 16:02.06 | mrpull | heheh... mixing conversations. |
| 16:02.21 | mrpull | _gmail_ has ads _for_me_ at the top of my inbox |
| 16:03.09 | hans | ooh, tridge released sourcepuller |
| 16:04.40 | mrpull | the whole linus hypocracy is very interesting to me |
| 16:06.09 | hans | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/22/tridgell_releases_sourcepuller/ |
| 16:06.10 | sjansen | What's there to discuss? Linus was wrong and everyon in #utah knows it. |
| 16:06.14 | hans | tridge++ |
| 16:09.00 | lukfugl | wrong about what? |
| 16:09.09 | lukfugl | bk? |
| 16:09.22 | Uncle_Jesse | rcs shmarsee-es |
| 16:09.39 | sjansen | His attack on Tridge. |
| 16:11.13 | mrpull | grub's menu.lst starts counting at 0 right? |
| 16:11.21 | sjansen | yes |
| 16:11.21 | hans | think so |
| 16:11.22 | mrpull | for default... |
| 16:11.30 | mrpull | cool. that's how I remember it... |
| 16:20.59 | mrpull | ok... gmail put a link for "spam primavera" at the top of my inbox |
| 16:21.24 | mrpull | even more spam recipies |
| 16:21.31 | mrpull | maybe it is a joke and I'm dense? |
| 16:22.12 | *** join/#utah ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
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| 16:22.52 | Uncle_Jesse | anyohne ever tried the Google filesystem? |
| 16:22.55 | Uncle_Jesse | anyone |
| 16:23.23 | mrpull | jesse: nope, but it looks like fun :) |
| 16:23.43 | Uncle_Jesse | I'm thinking of using it as a non-private backup |
| 16:23.47 | Uncle_Jesse | for non-secure info |
| 16:23.56 | Uncle_Jesse | for home, of course |
| 16:24.30 | mrpull | yeah. would it be possible to use all 50 of my invites to make a 100GB RAID? |
| 16:25.05 | Uncle_Jesse | mrpull: theoretically, it would seem like you might be able to - that's what I'm wondering |
| 16:26.44 | vontrapp | gah! my media directory isn't indexed in the locate db! |
| 16:26.53 | vontrapp | what's that about?! |
| 16:27.06 | Uncle_Jesse | gah! |
| 16:27.14 | beandog | Whats your media directory |
| 16:27.22 | vontrapp | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:27.27 | beandog | oh. |
| 16:27.29 | vontrapp | it's a seperate volume |
| 16:27.32 | beandog | Thast weird. |
| 16:27.35 | vontrapp | ext3 i think |
| 16:29.24 | vontrapp | i know it does scan other volumes though because i had to unmount the windows partition because it has lS5u3s |
| 16:29.56 | vontrapp | when running updatedb |
| 16:34.18 | hans | vontrapp: maybe because /media is where removeable media goes according to the fhs |
| 16:37.42 | vontrapp | ~fhs |
| 16:37.43 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, fhs is the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard and is at http://www.pathname.com/fhs/, or included in the debian-policy package |
| 16:38.22 | vontrapp | can i override that? |
| 16:39.27 | *** part/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.112) |
| 16:42.32 | beandog | pathname.com? heh |
| 16:42.39 | beandog | Should be somewhere in locate's prefs |
| 16:42.43 | beandog | er slocate |
| 16:42.45 | vontrapp | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:42.47 | beandog | has some kind of config somewhere |
| 16:42.48 | beandog | yah |
| 16:42.53 | vontrapp | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:43.34 | beandog | hmm, its not in my prune. |
| 16:43.48 | vontrapp | not anymore... now my updates are going to take twice as long or more |
| 16:44.12 | sjansen | vontrapp: /media is for removable media, it makes sense to prune it |
| 16:44.15 | hans | vontrapp: it would be easier to move your multimedia to /av I think |
| 16:44.22 | beandog | mine is /var/media |
| 16:44.45 | vontrapp | it still gets indexed and still takes twice as long |
| 16:44.46 | hans | I like "audiovisual" because media is too ambiguous |
| 16:44.53 | beandog | Hmm |
| 16:44.56 | beandog | av is easy to type, too |
| 16:44.57 | beandog | :) |
| 16:44.59 | vontrapp | removing "/media" from the prune list was quite easy :) |
| 16:45.00 | hans | and music is too restrictive |
| 16:45.16 | hans | and mp3 is silly |
| 16:45.26 | beandog | I prefer /var/media/hans |
| 16:45.29 | hans | yes, av is way easy to type. join the av revolution! |
| 16:45.37 | vontrapp | hans: /My Music |
| 16:45.51 | vontrapp | right along with /My PDFs |
| 16:45.56 | Bradipo | Anyone think its possible to swim from Norway to the U.S.A.? |
| 16:45.57 | hans | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:46.06 | vontrapp | haha |
| 16:46.10 | hans | Bradipo: sure, if you're a submarine |
| 16:46.28 | vontrapp | or a blubbery whale |
| 16:46.39 | hans | I can see that I'm going to have to configure fvwm to use the same windowmanager shortcuts that osx uses |
| 16:46.47 | Bradipo | I think if I were an employee of that company I would have rather heard something like ``if we hit our numbers you get this much $'' |
| 16:46.53 | vontrapp | actually, i think somebody did it once, or at least attempted |
| 16:46.54 | Uncle_Jesse | I don't think the Opera CEO has much faith |
| 16:47.19 | Bradipo | But maybe he has a will that gives all his employees so much money if he dies swimming. |
| 16:47.43 | levi | hans: Have you done any OS X programming yet? |
| 16:47.56 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 16:48.00 | hans | levi: worked through the currencyconverter sample |
| 16:48.10 | levi | hans: What do you think of ObjC? |
| 16:48.52 | hans | decent, for a mix of c and smalltalk. I don't know that I'd use it over java for cocoa though, what with it not doing memory management |
| 16:49.18 | vontrapp | hans, still no 1812, sorry |
| 16:49.25 | vontrapp | but it is on isengard |
| 16:49.49 | levi | hans: My sources tell me it will have garbage collection soon; probably the next OS release after Tiger. |
| 16:50.45 | levi | And it's not like it doesn't do any memory management. It's just not quite as helpful as a garbage collector. |
| 16:50.56 | levi | Anyway, the dynamic nature of it over Java is a big win for me. |
| 16:53.06 | levi | I ran across some company a while ago that's doing a Smalltalk for OS X. Looked pretty slick. |
| 16:56.13 | vontrapp | what the heck? find: missing argument to -exec |
| 16:56.34 | vontrapp | oh, excuse me, missing argument to "`-exec'" |
| 16:56.56 | lukfugl | bah, the av revolution is overrated. I've written a detailed exposé that should be posted to slashdot soon. |
| 16:57.45 | lukfugl | In short, the points I make in my article: |
| 16:57.55 | vontrapp | hans: did they give you tiger for cheap? |
| 16:58.17 | *** join/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.112) |
| 16:58.53 | lukfugl | 1) Possible misinterpretation: 'av' might mistakenly be interpreted as 'astral vagabond', resulting in your hard drive being seized by the galactic anti-vagary task force |
| 16:58.57 | vontrapp | hmm, i will have to put put windows in a stack for evilwm for quick switching between recent windows |
| 16:59.12 | lukfugl | 2) I like 'media', it has a nice three syllable ring to it |
| 16:59.32 | hans | lukfugl: but media is taken |
| 16:59.37 | hans | at least /media is |
| 17:00.14 | lukfugl | 3) My fingers are so well trained to type '/mnt/media' that any retraining would result in a loss of workplace efficiency by at least 0.2 percent |
| 17:00.17 | hans | vontrapp: I still need to call |
| 17:00.26 | hans | ln -s /av /mnt/media |
| 17:00.38 | lukfugl | ~lart hans |
| 17:00.47 | hans | or, even better, xmms /av |
| 17:01.03 | lukfugl | ~lart xmms' randomization |
| 17:01.31 | vontrapp | ~lart xmms' lameness |
| 17:01.51 | lukfugl | I like xmms generally, but it's randomization sucks |
| 17:01.54 | *** part/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.112) |
| 17:02.03 | vontrapp | find /media//music/ -exec analyzer '{}'; |
| 17:02.07 | vontrapp | why does it not work? |
| 17:02.10 | hans | sigh. you still don't have imms? |
| 17:02.18 | lukfugl | hans: nope :( |
| 17:02.21 | hans | vontrapp: you need \; |
| 17:02.27 | vontrapp | ~lart lukfugl |
| 17:02.50 | vontrapp | that's retarded |
| 17:03.12 | hans | -exec foo "{}" \; |
| 17:03.23 | vontrapp | sox: recoverable frame level error (lost synchronization). |
| 17:03.26 | vontrapp | :( |
| 17:03.55 | lukfugl | vontrapp: randomize = randomly sorts the indexes of the play list then plays straight through it |
| 17:04.21 | lukfugl | two problems: large playlists = large pause when turning random on; predictablity |
| 17:04.42 | vontrapp | lukfugl: what verstion are you using? |
| 17:04.49 | vontrapp | you don't have to randomize the playlist |
| 17:05.01 | vontrapp | oh, it does that internally |
| 17:05.08 | lukfugl | vontrapp: it doesn't mess with the playlist order, but that's all it's doing internally |
| 17:05.15 | *** join/#utah jsmith (~jsmith@pip.drs1.omniture.com) |
| 17:05.22 | vontrapp | no pause for me |
| 17:05.45 | lukfugl | If I have 20000 songs in the playlist, it hangs for several seconds when I hit randomize. Playlist stays the same, but it jumps through it in a *set* order |
| 17:06.33 | vontrapp | 1077 songs |
| 17:06.40 | lukfugl | e.g. I like Bjork's Army of Me, and want to listen to it again after an hour or so -- unless I rerandomize, I'm going to get exactly the same sequence of songs after that one as I did last time |
| 17:07.01 | vontrapp | not with imms |
| 17:07.12 | lukfugl | vontrapp: yes, but I wasn't larting imms :) |
| 17:07.12 | vontrapp | but you would still have the wait anytime you switched i imagine |
| 17:07.27 | hans | i've never seen that behavior with default xmms random |
| 17:08.00 | lukfugl | vontrapp: how hard is it to implement (for pure randomization, not fuzzy like imms) next_song_index = (int)(rand * num_songs) |
| 17:08.05 | lukfugl | no wait |
| 17:08.25 | lukfugl | hans: that's the way it's always been for me in my experience |
| 17:08.45 | vontrapp | i guess they wanted to eliminate dups |
| 17:09.05 | *** join/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.112) |
| 17:09.10 | hans | I just got different orders |
| 17:09.13 | vontrapp | better to keep a hash of played songs since random was turned on though |
| 17:09.32 | vontrapp | hans: you're using imms |
| 17:09.33 | hans | play one song, skip to the next and skip a few more, then jump to the original song, hit next and I get a different song |
| 17:09.37 | hans | I turned off imms |
| 17:09.44 | *** part/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.112) |
| 17:10.00 | vontrapp | i've experienced lukfugl's described behaviour before |
| 17:10.21 | lukfugl | hans: not for me |
| 17:10.53 | lukfugl | vontrapp: why? then it's not random (hash of played songs) |
| 17:11.16 | vontrapp | in case you don't want dups? |
| 17:11.32 | lukfugl | or sure, have a fixed-length queue of the last N played songs, and check against that queue when choosing a new random song, still not a big time hit |
| 17:12.01 | vontrapp | which is the _only_ reason i can concieve they would have implemented it with a reorderd list rather than like you said |
| 17:12.09 | lukfugl | I just don't see why it can't choose the next song on the fly, rather than having the order of songs fixed, if randomized |
| 17:12.16 | *** join/#utah zombie-m (mt@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 17:13.41 | Jayce^ | wow, he really has converted :) |
| 17:13.51 | levi | lukfugl: The time to randomly select a new song increases when you want to exclude ones you've already played. |
| 17:14.10 | vontrapp | it is a little--less cool--knowing that the song i will hear 1 hour from now has been pre-determined |
| 17:14.15 | levi | lukfugl: So you end up taking a much bigger hit when you're almost done with your playlist, and not even a deterministic one. |
| 17:14.20 | lukfugl | levi: not if you only exclude a fixed length queue of the last N songs, rather than all the songs played |
| 17:14.47 | levi | Well, if that works for you, code it up. |
| 17:14.49 | hans | lukfugl: although theoretically you could always get a random selection that has been played in that timeframe |
| 17:15.09 | levi | I prefer a list that's randomized up front. |
| 17:16.38 | *** join/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.112) |
| 17:17.25 | levi | lukfugl: I'm sure there are other mp3 players that take that route than WMP9, and it's not even WMP9's defining feature. Don't cast aspersions on my design choices by associating them with MS products. |
| 17:18.03 | levi | This is mildly disturbing: http://www.abountifulharvest.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ABH&Product_Code=SFDPR&Category_Code=CDS |
| 17:18.03 | lukfugl | levi: I wasn't, I was just being facetious :) |
| 17:19.08 | levi | As hans noted, with your scheme you end up with a random number of calculations between each song. |
| 17:19.11 | lukfugl | gags, rather |
| 17:19.24 | hans | random, yes, but likely to be small |
| 17:19.34 | levi | Which could, even if it's not likely, create a pause longer than randomizng up front. |
| 17:19.56 | hans | levi: not statistically |
| 17:20.32 | hans | especially when the only time you get a noticeable pause in up-front generation is when you have a long playlist |
| 17:21.04 | levi | Right, it's not a very strong argument against it. |
| 17:21.19 | hans | unless you keep track of all played songs from the beginning, then as you get nearer the end it could be potentially very hard to randomly fall upon one that hasn't played |
| 17:21.28 | hans | but as long as n << playlist_size, you're ok. |
| 17:21.36 | vontrapp | when a random number fails to fall without a queue of 25 songs of a pool of 20000, i'll be very impressed |
| 17:23.08 | lukfugl | ok, how about this: store the collection of songs from the playlist in a data structure with efficient random access. Store recently played songs in a fixed length queue (initially empty). To select the next song, choose a song from the store and remove it from the store, appending to the queue. The least recently played song from the queue is readded to the hash |
| 17:23.10 | levi | It's probably a reasonable design if you do enough statistical analysis up front to get a large enough queue that you don't get repeats very often, but small enough that you aren't likely to get significant pauses searching for an unplayed track. |
| 17:23.25 | lukfugl | fixed length access time (no chance of choosing a bad song over and over and over again) |
| 17:23.26 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 17:24.02 | vontrapp | lukfugl: great idea, i was struggling with reconciling not having an initial queue, and emptying one |
| 17:25.04 | findlay | Schubert wrote over 600 songs |
| 17:25.05 | levi | I hate repeats in random play, though, so I would want a rather largue queue. Actually, I really want an up-front randomization. |
| 17:25.16 | findlay | and some very good symphonies as well |
| 17:25.26 | levi | Perhaps the calculation of the randomization could be calculated in chunks, too. |
| 17:25.49 | hans | levi: sure, even if it starts playing one song while another thread randomizes |
| 17:25.58 | levi | So the first song starts playing as soon as it's chosen, and the remainder of the list is filled |
| 17:26.34 | scott | I don't know if you guys mentioned this, but I hate it when I go back and then forward again and the song is different. chunks would fix that . |
| 17:26.39 | hans | levi: but really, randomization is so last decade. :) This is the time of adaptive shuffle |
| 17:26.47 | lukfugl | levi: you could have the queue be 50 songs @ ~4 minutes each (for pop) -> at least 3 hours before you hear it again |
| 17:27.06 | hans | scott: yeah, I don't like that so much. in my just-now experiment xmms (cvs) does that correctly. |
| 17:27.22 | scott | is there a difference between suffle and random? |
| 17:27.29 | hans | nah |
| 17:27.32 | findlay | levi: you mean a binary method of selection, or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisson_distribution |
| 17:27.40 | hans | unless the developers of a particular player apply one |
| 17:28.01 | hans | well, I guess technically, shuffle would imply a non-repeating randomization while random would not |
| 17:28.12 | scott | xmms is so last century--I hate that darned winamp interface |
| 17:28.22 | hans | what would you prefer? |
| 17:28.43 | findlay | that is a well known idea in the theory of probability |
| 17:28.46 | lukfugl | what would be optimal would be to choose your randomization method via plugins, so levi and I can use the same player each with our preferred method |
| 17:29.14 | hans | or imms, yes I agree. xmms has _better_ facility for that in CVS |
| 17:29.23 | findlay | in distreet sets, once a song is chosen it no longer lives in the sample space |
| 17:29.32 | scott | hans, helixplayer has an interface I like, but it lacks playlists. totem w/o the visualization would be nice. sometimes I use muine or rhythmbox which are nice |
| 17:33.04 | scott | actually, one thing windows media player did correctly that iTunes and Rhythmbox messed up on is the placement of pause, stop, next etc and the progress bar. it's much nicer to have them on the bottom of the window because you normally switch windows from the bottom of the screen not the top |
| 17:33.13 | hans | so you like big and silly? perhaps you could distill what it is that you like into words |
| 17:33.33 | hans | on windows, yes |
| 17:34.03 | sjansen | scott: no, you normally do |
| 17:34.08 | scott | on gnome too, and I think the mac dock can be used to switch windows and it's on the bottom |
| 17:34.18 | sjansen | I just alt-tab or ctrl+arrow key |
| 17:34.25 | Uncle_Jesse | crap! Verizon blocks port 80 |
| 17:34.41 | hans | scott: I guess you're right |
| 17:34.54 | levi | I like a primary interface that's consistent with the platform's UI guidelines, and possibly a minimal secondary interface in a toolbar. |
| 17:34.56 | hans | I just use cmd-tab on my mac |
| 17:35.02 | scott | sure, some people move the default placement of the bars, but the default is bottom |
| 17:35.15 | sjansen | I like it at the top cause that's where my mouse spends most of its time: near menus. |
| 17:35.21 | lukfugl | although I do have kpager at the bottom-right |
| 17:35.53 | findlay | ha, heathens |
| 17:36.22 | hans | oh my |
| 17:36.23 | findlay | screen will keep your mplayer playing with or without X |
| 17:36.32 | lukfugl | in fact, that's the only reason kicker is at the top, so the more frequently used kpager can occupy the precious bottom-right realestate |
| 17:37.17 | scott | sjansen, mine spends it's time at the bottom. irc, bottom, when I'm writing anything longer than a paragraph it's normally near the bottom, terminal after a short time it's at the bototom. actually it would be interesting to flip the interface and put all the buttons and titlebar at the bottom. |
| 17:37.45 | findlay | or have your terminal scroll upwards |
| 17:37.56 | findlay | *that* would be interesting |
| 17:37.59 | vontrapp | if mplayer weren't so verbose in it's output, that might be ok |
| 17:38.05 | scott | hehe |
| 17:38.22 | scott | an IRC that did that would be cool |
| 17:38.38 | tensai | I like the foxytunes firefox extension |
| 17:38.44 | scott | have the font get smaller and change color (weaker colors) as it goes down |
| 17:38.48 | lukfugl | ~lart scott for trying to make irc top-posted |
| 17:39.02 | hans | findlay: so how does one translate a probability distribution into code? I used to know but I'm drawing a blank |
| 17:39.13 | hans | as in, into code for which song is playlist[i] |
| 17:39.24 | vontrapp | but a player in screen would definately be uber cool |
| 17:39.59 | findlay | hans: don't you just want to get the Poission formula? |
| 17:41.05 | hans | poission formula is P(N=k) = some equation |
| 17:41.32 | findlay | P(N=k)=\frac{e^{-\lambda} \lambda^k}{k!} |
| 17:42.14 | hans | so you get some 0<=p<1 right? |
| 17:42.21 | findlay | but it seems all you would want to do is just throw out each song from the domain as it is played |
| 17:42.37 | hans | so then you need to get from that P to an index into your array of songs |
| 17:42.44 | findlay | that shouldn't be too hard to pick a random one from the remaining songs |
| 17:43.30 | hans | unplayed = all.dup; played = []; |
| 17:43.57 | *** join/#utah tapH20guru (~tapH20gur@204.110.227.64) |
| 17:44.46 | hans | while unplayed.size > 0 { song = unplayed.delete_at(rand(unplayed.size); play(song); played.push song} |
| 17:45.01 | hans | that would follow poisson then, is what you're saying? |
| 17:47.09 | lukfugl | hans: that's the general idea. You' want a better storage structure than array however for unplayed :) |
| 17:48.00 | Uncle_Jesse | anyone here have naked dsl? |
| 17:48.12 | lukfugl | also, played = FixedLengthQueue.new, not [] |
| 17:48.22 | lukfugl | you don't want that to grow indefinitely |
| 17:48.49 | hans | lukfugl: if you're removing from unplayed, you don't need a fixed size queue |
| 17:48.57 | hans | you'll get levi's behavior for free |
| 17:49.04 | Uncle_Jesse | tapH20guru: naked dsl=dsl without phone service |
| 17:49.09 | hans | why wouldn't array be good for that? you're doing array operations. |
| 17:49.47 | hans | findlay: why? |
| 17:49.57 | lukfugl | hans: I prefer that a song *can* be played again, so it needs to be reinserted after a while, just that there's some delay |
| 17:50.03 | findlay | don't remember, hans, and it's greatly troubling me |
| 17:50.14 | Uncle_Jesse | hahaha |
| 17:50.18 | lukfugl | think of it like the rotation in volleyball when you have more than 6 players :) |
| 17:50.20 | hans | findlay: it does sound like the sort of nonsensical thing you'd have to do in statistics |
| 17:50.53 | findlay | hans: probably wouldn't matter anyway if all you cared about is not to play the same song twice in a sequence |
| 17:51.23 | lukfugl | i.e. if I have 20000 songs, I don't want to have to wait 80000 minutes before hearing a song I like again |
| 17:51.28 | tapH20guru | astrisk@home or Ubuntu w/asterisk? |
| 17:51.32 | hans | lukfugl: enter imms |
| 17:51.38 | hans | ;-) |
| 17:51.40 | findlay | lukfugl: exactly, so weight the songs |
| 17:51.48 | hans | because there are probably songs on there you _do_ want to wait 80000 minutes to hear |
| 17:51.55 | vontrapp | ahem: enter imms |
| 17:52.05 | lukfugl | findlay: waight doesn't matter if the entire playlist has to be exhausted before a song can come up again |
| 17:52.05 | tapH20guru | hans: Milli Vanilli? |
| 17:52.06 | Uncle_Jesse | tapH20guru: just looking for good broadband phone service |
| 17:52.18 | findlay | in that case, you have a cron job that removes them |
| 17:52.19 | lukfugl | hans: I'm arguing in absense of adaptive shuffling :) |
| 17:52.29 | Maquis | farewell all... i'm shutting down for a while... |
| 17:52.49 | Maquis | i probably won't be around for about a week |
| 17:52.57 | findlay | lukfugl: I was assuming that you would weight the songs in terms of desired repitition |
| 17:53.17 | findlay | ~farewell Maquis |
| 17:53.18 | hans | lukfugl: I agree though. we need a simple screenable (or mutli-UI) player that has an easy playlist plugin arch |
| 17:53.20 | lukfugl | findlay: absense of adaptive repetition |
| 17:53.26 | scott | how about this: motion sensors in your headphones and based on the amount of head bobbing the song gets rated up or down? |
| 17:53.27 | findlay | lukfugl: why? |
| 17:53.38 | vontrapp | analyzer is still cranking away... |
| 17:53.39 | hans | findlay: ever tried to rate 20000 songs? |
| 17:53.51 | lukfugl | findlay: for arguments sake. Because once you allow adaptive repetition, you're in imms' realm |
| 17:53.57 | lukfugl | for which imms is already a good solution |
| 17:54.11 | vontrapp | scott: awesome idea |
| 17:54.12 | lukfugl | I'm just talking about a good default randomization |
| 17:54.20 | findlay | hans: no, have the rating adjusted on the fly |
| 17:54.22 | findlay | lukfugl: OK |
| 17:54.38 | hans | findlay: yes, exactly. imms |
| 17:54.53 | hans | http://www.luminal.org/wiki/index.php/IMMS/IMMS |
| 17:54.56 | hans | ~imms |
| 17:54.57 | ibot | from memory, imms is an adaptive playlist framework that tracks your listening patterns and dynamically adapts to your taste. |
| 17:55.07 | tapH20guru | Uncle_Jesse: broadvoice is cheap -> $19.95 unlimited calling to 21 countries |
| 17:55.18 | lukfugl | saying a song isn't allowed to play again until all other songs have played isn't random, it's shuffled |
| 17:55.25 | findlay | I would rather it dynamically adjusted to my olfaction |
| 17:55.29 | vontrapp | does imms have architecture for rating plugins? |
| 17:55.49 | hans | it's awesome. when I'm in the mood for depeche mode-like music, I pick a depeche mode song or two and it follows suit |
| 17:56.11 | hans | if I'm in a bach mood, it leans toward bach |
| 17:56.44 | hans | imms' primary problem is that it depends on xmms, and xmms stinks |
| 17:56.53 | levi | Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I prefer to choose and album and listen through it. |
| 17:56.55 | vontrapp | ~lart xmms |
| 17:57.00 | findlay | so it does try to guess your mood them |
| 17:57.04 | scott | how does it know what's like bach and what's like depeche? |
| 17:57.12 | hans | does frequency analysis |
| 17:57.13 | vontrapp | enter analyzer |
| 17:57.25 | hans | levi: I do that too sometimes. Just turn off random and there you go |
| 17:57.31 | vontrapp | what /me is doing now to his hd |
| 17:57.41 | hans | imms notices too - so it knows you like that album, and that you like to listen to it consecutively |
| 17:57.44 | findlay | levi: I guess I'm old fasioned too, I like to pick a composer and listen thorugh his complete works |
| 17:57.58 | hans | findlay: that sounds expensive |
| 17:58.03 | vontrapp | very |
| 17:58.04 | lukfugl | so it involves bayesian learning as well? |
| 17:58.05 | hans | why, just bach's organ music was $100+ |
| 17:58.21 | levi | findlay: Sometimes I do that for a particular band, but I generally change my mood somewhere in the middle. |
| 17:58.45 | levi | I don't have an extensive enough classical collection or enough desire to listen to the complete works of any particular composer. |
| 17:58.55 | findlay | hans: not necessarily, Deutsche Grammphon has a Bach Complete Organ Works that is quite good for less than that IIRC |
| 17:59.25 | hans | I did extensive research. $70 is about as cheap s you get short of ebay |
| 18:03.26 | findlay | but as far as the classical labels go, Deutsche Grammophon, which is the best IMO, is the most liberal with their stuff |
| 18:05.22 | findlay | ideally there would be this huge repository of music somewhere on the internet of all the public domain recordings in high resolution |
| 18:06.28 | findlay | when fiber comes all the way to everybody's computer |
| 18:08.08 | levi | That would be nice. |
| 18:08.18 | levi | I would listen to a lot more classical music in that case, I'm sure. |
| 18:08.34 | vontrapp | would need a distributed repository |
| 18:09.35 | findlay | hmm, maybe it's closer than we know, could you imagine music.google.com? (: |
| 18:09.56 | lukfugl | take that, stupid library writers |
| 18:10.09 | lukfugl | ~lart lack of documentation |
| 18:10.45 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 18:11.09 | findlay | but then, again, google tends to serve information about every other person's stuff rather than host their own original content |
| 18:12.07 | findlay | Maquis: what will we do this whole week that you're gone? |
| 18:12.27 | vontrapp | party |
| 18:14.11 | findlay | ~party |
| 18:14.12 | ibot | I'm too tired |
| 18:14.36 | findlay | ~sleep |
| 18:14.37 | ibot | it has been said that sleep is overrated, and a poor substitute for caffeine. |
| 18:20.46 | tapH20guru | ~lart google |
| 18:20.59 | tapH20guru | ~google |
| 18:21.00 | ibot | it has been said that google is a search engine found at http://www.google.com/ |
| 18:22.53 | *** join/#utah carlito (~mturk2192@dsl81-215-28652.adsl.ttnet.net.tr) |
| 18:23.19 | lukfugl | why lart google? |
| 18:25.13 | *** part/#utah carlito (~mturk2192@dsl81-215-28652.adsl.ttnet.net.tr) |
| 18:25.19 | *** join/#utah emcnabb-treo (~upirc@001-762-102.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 18:25.57 | emcnabb-treo | this graduation ceremony is BORING |
| 18:26.56 | emcnabb-treo | I've read all my daily computer news sites. |
| 18:27.18 | tapH20guru | graduation ceremonies suck |
| 18:28.08 | emcnabb-treo | it's almost over |
| 18:28.59 | *** join/#utah scott (~scott@atypedigital.ischool.washington.edu) |
| 18:36.05 | Uncle_Jesse | I hate web interfaces that have image submit buttons - you can't submit the forms in lynx! |
| 18:37.07 | fozz | Yeah- that kinda sucks. |
| 18:37.12 | JoshH | heh, why are you using lynx? |
| 18:37.13 | fozz | There should be a graceful degradation on that. |
| 18:37.21 | hans | Uncle_Jesse: does your boss know you're using lynx? |
| 18:37.26 | fozz | heh heh. |
| 18:37.45 | JoshH | lynx is for downloading stuff from the command line when you dont have a direct url for wget, and nothing else. |
| 18:38.20 | mrpull | i had a wrestling match with an oracle download with lynx |
| 18:38.32 | neybar | I use it fairly frequently actually. It is nice for googling with when you don't want to fire up a browser |
| 18:38.36 | tapH20guru | links2 ain't bad |
| 18:38.43 | mrpull | i think i ended up downloading in IE underwindows and scp'ing the darn thing to the server |
| 18:39.03 | JoshH | i pretty much have firefox open whenever i have X running |
| 18:40.07 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 18:40.59 | JoshH | and if i dont have it open, it only takes a second or two to fire up |
| 18:42.09 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: lol - no, and I don't use it frequently enough for him to care probably |
| 18:42.37 | Uncle_Jesse | JoshH: I'm trying to access my router's web interface from my Linux machine |
| 18:42.48 | Uncle_Jesse | I haven't figured out the ssh interface yet |
| 18:43.00 | JoshH | ah, ive tried that. it doesnt work too well on my actiontec. telnet does though. |
| 18:43.44 | Uncle_Jesse | I've messed with ssh on openwrt but I just changed router distros so I'm still familiarizing myself |
| 18:43.53 | Uncle_Jesse | I don't want to mess it up quite yet |
| 18:44.35 | JoshH | i need to get a real router |
| 18:44.39 | tapH20guru | sveasoft? |
| 18:44.54 | Uncle_Jesse | tapH20guru: it's a fork from sveasoft - dd-wrt |
| 18:45.06 | Uncle_Jesse | the writer combined alchemy with openwrt |
| 18:45.29 | tapH20guru | Uncle_Jesse: yeah - ran that one for awhile |
| 18:45.38 | tapH20guru | i love the wondershaper support |
| 18:45.43 | tapH20guru | kicks bootie |
| 18:45.46 | Uncle_Jesse | I love it - my favorite one so far |
| 18:46.01 | Uncle_Jesse | yeah - haven't played with all the little gizmos yet |
| 18:46.34 | Uncle_Jesse | I'm thinking of seeing if my neighbors want to run their internet through it as a hotspot |
| 18:46.46 | Uncle_Jesse | make some money on the side |
| 18:48.33 | tapH20guru | tsk tsk - you wouldn't be sharing your connection illegaly, eh? ;) |
| 18:49.14 | Uncle_Jesse | tapH20guru: not yet at least. I'll probably upgrade to a business connection if I do it. |
| 18:51.35 | *** join/#utah xilch|h (~xilch@c-67-166-119-0.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:52.05 | tapH20guru | I have a little "neighborhood" wireless connection going |
| 18:52.22 | tapH20guru | all bought wrts and we modded them out |
| 18:52.29 | tapH20guru | i works great |
| 18:53.10 | tapH20guru | hoping to get a decent ISP out... then on to VOIP accounts for everyone |
| 18:53.43 | tapH20guru | just dial an extention to call your neighbour |
| 18:54.06 | Uncle_Jesse | tapH20guru: How will people outside the network call your neighbors? |
| 18:54.33 | tapH20guru | we'll get a Broadvoice number that'll talk to an asterisk server |
| 18:55.00 | Uncle_Jesse | are you a student? |
| 18:55.06 | tapH20guru | each house can get their own number... or an extension off the base number |
| 18:55.19 | tapH20guru | I am a student of Life |
| 18:55.24 | tapH20guru | lol |
| 18:55.34 | Uncle_Jesse | lol - you've got highly technical neighbors I take it |
| 18:56.07 | tapH20guru | nope - just give em a VOIP phone hooked to thier wrt and off they go |
| 18:56.24 | tapH20guru | I'mnot sure how nerdy we'll all get |
| 18:56.40 | Uncle_Jesse | I don't think I could convince my neighbors to that |
| 18:56.55 | Uncle_Jesse | I'll be lucky if I get them to share my internet |
| 18:57.03 | tapH20guru | lol |
| 18:57.13 | tapH20guru | price is the motivating factor |
| 18:57.35 | Uncle_Jesse | I wonder how much it is just to add an additional phone number to Broadvoice or the like |
| 18:57.49 | tapH20guru | ~ 4 bucks |
| 18:57.50 | Uncle_Jesse | since you're not using additional lines it can't be too expensive |
| 18:57.53 | Uncle_Jesse | nice |
| 18:58.08 | Uncle_Jesse | so you could set up asterix, and charge way less for phone service |
| 18:58.13 | tapH20guru | just goota make sure you're using a good QoS like wondershaper |
| 18:58.21 | Uncle_Jesse | yeah |
| 18:58.24 | tapH20guru | yup ... building the server asap |
| 18:58.27 | Uncle_Jesse | I've got to figure that out sometime |
| 18:58.43 | hans | how'd you get them to drop the capital for wrtgs? |
| 18:58.44 | tapH20guru | there's a lurker in here that is an expert |
| 18:59.14 | tapH20guru | new housing deverlopment - no one can get DSL or Comcast |
| 18:59.28 | tapH20guru | we're using a WISP to get out... |
| 18:59.38 | tapH20guru | I'm a little worried about latency using a WISP |
| 18:59.46 | tapH20guru | got no other choice |
| 19:00.00 | Uncle_Jesse | with enough people you might be able to arrange for a T1, couldn't you? |
| 19:00.04 | hans | are you within line of sight of dsl people? |
| 19:00.17 | tapH20guru | quest wants too much for setup... lots of digging |
| 19:01.07 | tapH20guru | possibly.. need to throw kismet back on the wrt and scan some more |
| 19:02.20 | Uncle_Jesse | my neighbors all broadcast their open ssids - some even have the default unames/passwords in the admin |
| 19:02.27 | Uncle_Jesse | not that I've tried or anything |
| 19:02.31 | tapH20guru | lol |
| 19:02.35 | tapH20guru | noooo.. no |
| 19:02.43 | Uncle_Jesse | It's just fun to find out |
| 19:02.47 | tapH20guru | I'd kill for an open ssid with internet |
| 19:03.14 | Uncle_Jesse | It would be so tempting to just use their internet connection to host my web server out of. :-) |
| 19:03.56 | Uncle_Jesse | There needs to be way more education on the security of wireless networks |
| 19:04.12 | tapH20guru | yeah.... good luck with that |
| 19:04.58 | *** join/#utah flyfisher65 (~mike@12.160.33.128) |
| 19:08.13 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-67-161-242-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:14.55 | lukfugl | sjansen: who's that? |
| 19:15.03 | sjansen | J. Random Blogger |
| 19:15.16 | lukfugl | oh, ok |
| 19:17.53 | Jayce^ | sjansen, they've actually had the working view code for over a year... that's the funny part |
| 19:22.56 | sjansen | how now brown cow? |
| 19:24.24 | levi | Pretty pictures: http://fract.ygingras.net/top |
| 19:25.12 | sjansen | fractals are _so_ ten years ago |
| 19:25.27 | levi | They still look cool. :P |
| 19:25.34 | Uncle_Jesse | yeah, I was confused |
| 19:39.15 | hans | anyone know the mysqld package name on rhel? |
| 19:39.24 | hans | I'm having a hard time believing it didn't get installed. |
| 19:41.22 | sjansen | mysql-server, IIRC |
| 19:41.59 | sjansen | And it wouldn't surprise me to find out it was installed if it wasn't specifically selected. RH has a strong preference for PG. |
| 19:43.12 | hans | could be. I would mostly be surprised at me not selecting it at the time of installation |
| 19:43.17 | hans | but it sure doesn't seem to be here |
| 19:48.25 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 19:50.12 | *** join/#utah xbmodder-treo (~upirc@001-721-886.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 19:50.37 | xbmodder-treo | hey |
| 19:53.29 | xbmodder-treo | have a simple o |
| 19:58.43 | hans | hmm. there doesn't seem to be a mysql server package on the rhel CDs |
| 19:59.01 | hans | and now I'm chest-deep in rpm hell |
| 19:59.10 | jsmith | hans: Which RHEL? |
| 19:59.12 | hans | 3 |
| 20:00.41 | sjansen | hans: How are you checking? |
| 20:00.42 | hans | can I get a list of installed packages from rpm? |
| 20:00.50 | sjansen | rpm -qa |
| 20:00.53 | hans | find /cdrom/ -iname '*mysql*' |
| 20:02.13 | hans | repeated across all 4 cds, of course. |
| 20:02.51 | sjansen | Name : mysql Relocations: (not relocatable) |
| 20:02.51 | sjansen | Version : 3.23.58 Vendor: Red Hat, Inc. |
| 20:03.03 | hans | right, I have that |
| 20:03.12 | hans | rpm -ql mysql | grep mysqld |
| 20:03.13 | jsmith | Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3 does not ship with the mysql-server package and is therefore not affected by these issues |
| 20:03.30 | sjansen | hans: yeah, just noticed that |
| 20:03.43 | hans | unfortunately lots of stuff depends on this mysql package, which conflicts with the rpms from mysql's site. |
| 20:03.47 | hans | looks like source for me |
| 20:04.12 | jsmith | Try updating with all the RPMs from RHEL 4? |
| 20:11.36 | hans | nah |
| 20:11.41 | hans | I'll just go from source. |
| 20:11.51 | jsmith | Fair 'nuff... |
| 20:13.40 | mrpull | hans... it is in the extras |
| 20:13.52 | mrpull | if you RHN, you need to subscribe to the extras channel |
| 20:16.13 | mrpull | it is CD9 of (my) boxed edition |
| 20:23.03 | *** join/#utah fungus_ (~fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 20:31.57 | hans | one of us might lose his hair, but you're reminded that it once was there |
| 20:34.33 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf|w (~dataw0lf@66.219.227.114) |
| 20:34.52 | dataw0lf|w | hey, you can't beat a power outage to get you off your butt, and then send you right back on it. |
| 20:47.45 | levi | Curse these stupid programmers who stuffed crap into a perl hash when key order matters! |
| 20:48.56 | vontrapp | eh, who needs |
| 20:49.00 | vontrapp | order |
| 20:50.51 | levi | I do. |
| 20:50.58 | sjansen | No you don't. |
| 20:51.12 | levi | Yes, I do. |
| 20:51.17 | sjansen | You only think you do. |
| 20:51.32 | levi | You only think you know what I need. |
| 20:51.47 | sjansen | I know you are, but what am I? |
| 20:52.55 | sjansen | I know you are, but what am I? |
| 20:52.55 | sjansen | I know you are, but what am I? |
| 20:52.56 | sjansen | I know you are, but what am I? |
| 20:54.38 | dataw0lf|w | a retard? |
| 20:55.11 | sjansen | I'm rubber, you're glue. |
| 20:55.57 | dataw0lf|w | no, no, no, we already decided you're a retard. |
| 20:57.05 | sjansen | You're a big meany! |
| 21:04.13 | levi | I so hate having to deal with perl. |
| 21:05.04 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@byu074700wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 21:07.24 | jsmith | levi: :-) |
| 21:08.24 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 21:12.46 | vontrapp | return mheath; |
| 21:16.51 | spr | Does anyone know a good howto for serial consoles and kermit? |
| 21:17.55 | levi | spr: start kermit, type help. :) |
| 21:19.27 | spr | levi, it's a bit much considering everything else I'm doing right now |
| 21:19.44 | levi | spr: What do you want to do with serial consoles and kermit? |
| 21:20.21 | spr | mainly connect to one that's running (grub and linux) |
| 21:21.16 | levi | Start kermit, set the line, set the speed, set your flow control, tell it to ignore carrier, and then connect |
| 21:21.19 | levi | More or less. |
| 21:21.31 | levi | If you forget one of the steps before connect, it will complain and tell you what to do. |
| 21:29.05 | spr | I've bene forgeting those, but it hasn't been complaining. |
| 21:29.51 | mheath | Argh. ProFTPd is giving me troubles. |
| 21:29.54 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf|w (~dataw0lf@66.219.227.114) |
| 21:35.53 | mheath | BRB |
| 21:39.08 | jsmith | MMMmmnnn... BBQ... |
| 21:43.21 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~Bob@216.126.221.115) |
| 22:01.10 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf|w (~dataw0lf@66.219.227.114) |
| 22:17.27 | spr | ~lart mail systems |
| 22:17.47 | *** join/#utah mheath (~Michael@c-67-161-213-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:18.19 | mheath | Will someone do me a favor and check http://revolution.datamachine.net/ ? (Should get an Apache directory listing) |
| 22:18.25 | mheath | Just want to make sure it works from Elsewhere. |
| 22:18.48 | mrpull | works for me |
| 22:18.59 | mheath | Ok, cool. Thanks, mrpull |
| 22:21.26 | levi | Works for me, too. |
| 22:23.48 | *** join/#utah slag (~test2@67-41-183-61.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:24.18 | slag | so where's the hot chicks ? |
| 22:26.00 | mrpull | slag: not here :) |
| 22:26.06 | mrpull | look elsewhere |
| 22:27.16 | slag | shit |
| 22:27.26 | slag | bit on mormons here? |
| 22:27.34 | mrpull | slag: did you happen to see the topic? |
| 22:27.49 | slag | i dont read those. |
| 22:28.18 | slag | fucking tardwits |
| 22:28.31 | slag | so Brigham was a pedophile right? |
| 22:28.39 | slag | and joe smith a fraud? |
| 22:28.44 | slag | stupid fuckers |
| 22:28.46 | *** part/#utah slag (~test2@67-41-183-61.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:28.57 | mheath | Ah. Bliss. |
| 22:28.58 | mrpull | heh... thanks for visiting |
| 22:29.11 | sjansen | A QWest user in SL. |
| 22:29.21 | mheath | Explains a lot :) |
| 22:30.47 | mheath | Wow |
| 22:30.52 | mheath | Newegg.com changed their layout |
| 22:33.44 | SpecialK | they've been talking about their new site for a while |
| 22:34.08 | *** join/#utah usynic (~synic@cpe-66-108-254-99.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:34.12 | mheath | Didn't notice. Don't go there too often |
| 22:34.27 | mheath | Just kinda took me by surprise. I visited it a day or too ago.... |
| 22:35.35 | vontrapp | so why would you want scan line interleave mode on a video card? |
| 22:35.46 | mrpull | mheath... cant you get better deals from your employer? |
| 22:36.06 | sjansen | vontrapp: TV's do that. |
| 22:36.15 | mheath | mrpull, actually, probably not. (It's just an internship and my boss saves money wherever he can) |
| 22:36.25 | vontrapp | so it makes it display better on a tv? or display on a tv at all? |
| 22:36.37 | mheath | I'm looking to purchase a very highend machine in about 3-4 months... |
| 22:36.46 | mheath | Just kinda curiously looking around |
| 22:37.38 | mrpull | buy a dual core amd64 and let us know how you like it ;-) |
| 22:37.54 | mheath | I think I will |
| 22:38.02 | mheath | Right now, I'm looking at FX55's |
| 22:38.24 | mheath | (Thats why I'm thinking newegg is cheaper.....Superior charges $1,000 for that, while newegg is $800-something) |
| 22:38.31 | mheath | *About $1000 |
| 22:38.34 | sjansen | vontrapp: Don't remember if it's all or some. |
| 22:38.43 | mheath | Granted, our lowerend parts/systems are cheaper than newegg |
| 22:38.54 | mheath | and we have a 3 year parts and 4 year labor warranty |
| 22:39.15 | bonez39 | what's that little applet that lets you send an im or pm to someone else on the same network? |
| 22:39.21 | vontrapp | cause other cards have "TV Out" without sli |
| 22:39.23 | bonez39 | talk or something? |
| 22:39.44 | vontrapp | talk |
| 22:39.47 | vontrapp | maybe ytalk |
| 22:40.06 | bonez39 | ok... |
| 22:40.11 | bonez39 | talk doesn't wokr |
| 22:40.12 | bonez39 | work |
| 22:40.15 | mheath | The host would have to be running the talk daemon, though |
| 22:40.48 | bonez39 | nmmm no luck with talk or ytalk |
| 22:43.38 | levi | How are you invoking it? |
| 22:45.23 | mrpull | write may do the trick too |
| 22:47.00 | bonez39 | I am ssh'd to my home computer...and my sitter is on it..chatting with her friends..I want to send a message to pop up on her screen there...;) |
| 22:47.09 | bonez39 | so I am connected to the same machine she is using... |
| 22:48.29 | sjansen | Ah, the old "I know what you're doing, so you'd better make sure my kids aren't chasing each other with knives" ploy. |
| 22:48.31 | JoshH | lol |
| 22:49.37 | JoshH | just kill the im prog over and over again until she gets the message, then when you get home, be like "so, did you have any problems with chatting earlier?" |
| 22:50.03 | mrpull | is she logged in as you? |
| 23:00.14 | mheath | Mmmm. |
| 23:00.40 | vontrapp | well, for talk and family to work, she'd have to have a terminal window open already |
| 23:00.44 | mheath | With shipping charges - $2,838.90 |
| 23:08.31 | SpecialK | write will do it for a *nix terminal |
| 23:08.37 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (~von@user-213.kingsley2.fiber.net) |
| 23:08.47 | SpecialK | there's a message command for windows |
| 23:08.54 | SpecialK | cna't recall syntax |
| 23:16.18 | bonez39 | sjansen: yeah, that's sort of it |
| 23:16.35 | bonez39 | I just want to spook her.....let her know I am right there..staring out at her from the machine..; |
| 23:22.25 | sjansen | use festival |
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| 23:33.52 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
