| 00:05.06 | sjansen | emcnabb: Run! Run while you still can! |
| 00:06.42 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 00:07.17 | emcnabb | no more WOW!!! please! for the love of all that is good... |
| 00:08.22 | Maquis | emcnabb: question regarding some dmesg items |
| 00:08.36 | Maquis | FAT: Filesystem panic (dev loop0) |
| 00:08.37 | Maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.37 | Maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.48 | Maquis | ??? why in the world is that in dmesg? |
| 00:08.58 | Maquis | (it's in there twice) |
| 00:09.10 | Maquis | and then i've got a full page of: |
| 00:09.16 | Maquis | atkbd.c: Keyboard on isa0060/serio0 reports too many keys pressed. |
| 00:11.06 | mheath | Maquis, heh, were you pressing too many keys? :D |
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| 00:11.29 | emcnabb | what version of the kernel is it? |
| 00:11.50 | Newsome | sounds like something I've seen with pretty recent kernels |
| 00:12.11 | Maquis | emcnabb: 2.6.10 |
| 00:12.30 | Maquis | i keep meaning to upgrade to 2.6.11 to get rid of the stupid sync error (that's what stuart said to do) |
| 00:12.42 | emcnabb | there's a lot on Google about the keyboard error |
| 00:12.50 | emcnabb | I'm looking into it right now |
| 00:13.02 | Maquis | the keyboard error is less worrisome to me than the filesystem panic |
| 00:13.09 | Maquis | and my filesystem wasn't read-only |
| 00:13.18 | Maquis | even though it said it had set it read-only |
| 00:13.25 | Maquis | oh... |
| 00:13.26 | Maquis | wait... |
| 00:13.35 | Maquis | i think i know what that one's from, come to think of it |
| 00:13.36 | Newsome | filesystem image |
| 00:13.55 | Maquis | i think that's when i was testing something with the filesystem image after making changes to it with project 7 |
| 00:14.05 | Maquis | ok... |
| 00:14.06 | emcnabb | yeah, I was going to ask you that |
| 00:14.09 | Maquis | so, that explains that one |
| 00:14.11 | Newsome | sounds right |
| 00:14.16 | emcnabb | since you said your were messing with the FAT lab recently |
| 00:14.23 | Maquis | yeah... |
| 00:14.44 | Newsome | are these messages on your laptop? |
| 00:14.51 | Maquis | Newsome: yup |
| 00:15.14 | Newsome | are you suspending, or shutting down & rebooting? |
| 00:15.22 | Maquis | my computer can't suspend |
| 00:15.35 | Maquis | so, i use /sbin/halt and /sbin/reboot when i need to shut down |
| 00:15.59 | Newsome | k |
| 00:16.22 | Maquis | at least, i do that except when i have the fsync() error... at which point i have to use the power-button |
| 00:16.31 | Maquis | the fsync() error causes other issues |
| 00:18.30 | Maquis | hmmm... the bug listed at redhat.com doesn't seem to be the same one... same output, but i can't reproduce it the way they do |
| 00:18.55 | Newsome | does the laptop have any of those "special keys"? (like volume controls, etc.) |
| 00:19.15 | Maquis | it has a few... |
| 00:19.20 | Maquis | i can check to see if any of them cause it |
| 00:20.31 | Maquis | none of those cause it |
| 00:20.47 | Maquis | closing the lid doesn't cause it |
| 00:21.08 | Maquis | randomly hitting all the keys on my keyboard at once does cause it |
| 00:21.14 | Newsome | haha |
| 00:21.16 | Maquis | but i don't normally do that |
| 00:21.25 | scott | re slashdot's apple vs. microsoft who came up with super-fast searching first--give me a break, it was BeOS. |
| 00:22.23 | Newsome | how about waving a rubber chicken above it while chanting "Must lart Stuart" ? |
| 00:22.33 | Maquis | never tried that one |
| 00:22.45 | Newsome | yeah, it's not very common |
| 00:23.02 | Maquis | hmmm... here's a post to lkml that says in essence that it's something that is neither critical nor going to ever be fixed |
| 00:23.05 | scott | ha! apparently the guy behind beos's searching stuff is behind spotlight |
| 00:23.26 | *** part/#utah resplin (~richard@208.186.180.204) |
| 00:25.00 | Maquis | well, i suppose it's just not important... i can just deal with this... |
| 00:25.07 | Maquis | as long as the filesystem panic wasn't anything serious....... (silly me) |
| 00:25.15 | Maquis | thanks for the help, though! |
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| 02:04.39 | Maquis | vontrapp: what you trying to do? |
| 02:04.51 | vontrapp | directional resizing |
| 02:05.07 | Maquis | hmmm |
| 02:05.09 | vontrapp | if i click in the upper left corner of the window, that's the corner i want to move |
| 02:05.35 | vontrapp | i already got it to move the window if i click in the center :) |
| 02:07.29 | Maquis | oh |
| 02:08.33 | vontrapp | i saw somewhere that it was changed to make the mouse jump to the border in a resize... wish i could find where that is to disable it |
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| 02:13.39 | LeviHome | Oops. |
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| 02:14.38 | findlay | Maquis: use git (-: |
| 02:15.24 | Maquis | findlay: git? |
| 02:15.47 | Maquis | it says that the bdb database needs to be recovered |
| 02:21.33 | findlay | of all the SCMs Linus could have chosen why did he have to name his something wierd like git? |
| 02:22.07 | findlay | Bazaar-ng? Huh? Who comes up with these names? |
| 02:22.31 | Newsome | http://pasky.or.cz/~pasky/dev/git/ |
| 02:22.38 | findlay | arch, subversion, now those are decent names |
| 02:23.11 | Newsome | well, Bazaar-ng is better than Cathedral-ng, isn't it? |
| 02:23.45 | findlay | not |
| 02:23.50 | findlay | actually used by any common UNIX command |
| 02:23.56 | findlay | I guess that's a good reason |
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| 02:24.23 | Maquis | svn: bdb: fatal region error detected; run recovery |
| 02:24.30 | Maquis | not happy |
| 02:24.40 | Maquis | amcnabb: how ya doin? |
| 02:26.40 | Maquis | ooh... if anybody else has had this problem, they certainly haven't bothered to post it anywhere... isn't that exciting? |
| 02:27.06 | findlay | Maquis: I am happy for you (: |
| 02:27.26 | Maquis | the only people who've even gotten the bdb error were using mysql |
| 02:27.42 | Maquis | why does mysql care about bdb? |
| 02:27.59 | Maquis | LeviHome: :) |
| 02:28.29 | LeviHome | It's amusing. :) |
| 02:28.34 | Maquis | ok... |
| 02:28.53 | Maquis | so, aside from arch, cvs and svn... there's git... anything else? |
| 02:29.00 | Maquis | (free in both senses, preferrably) |
| 02:30.04 | findlay | Maquis: you're just in luck to try out my super proprietary SCM |
| 02:30.33 | Maquis | ~lart findlay |
| 02:30.41 | findlay | the trial version lasts 10 minutes at which time you must enter your credit card number or your computer will explode in 5 seconds |
| 02:31.26 | findlay | it auto merges changes from across the world using psychic powers discovered by Tesla |
| 02:34.12 | amcnabb | Maquis: have you run recovery? |
| 02:34.42 | Maquis | amcnabb: i'm trying to figure out how to |
| 02:35.09 | Maquis | i thought perhaps a good bit of googling would tell me how, but since i'm not really getting any results, and the few i am don't have any resolution.... |
| 02:35.42 | amcnabb | svnadmin recover |
| 02:35.51 | amcnabb | or something like that |
| 02:36.28 | Maquis | svn: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery |
| 02:37.52 | amcnabb | Use LDDB??? I don't know. |
| 02:38.06 | Maquis | LDDB? |
| 02:39.32 | Maquis | are there any "good" version control systems out there? |
| 02:40.33 | findlay | Maquis: aside from CVS/suversion I think arch looks pretty good, but I believe few of them including arch are very mature |
| 02:40.34 | Maquis | i have everything checked out someplace, so i could just ditch subversion and go with something else |
| 02:41.02 | Maquis | i tried arch for a week or two, and didn't really catch on to its philosophy that much |
| 02:41.21 | Maquis | now that i understand svn it might be worth trying again, but i'm not certain... |
| 02:43.18 | Maquis | do people generally like cvs? i mean, i know that a bunch of things are being made to replace it... |
| 02:43.34 | scott | cool show, even though I normally don't like animated films |
| 02:43.58 | Maquis | but... should i stick with something simple like cvs? or should i give svn another try??? |
| 02:44.08 | *** part/#utah mrpull_ (~mrpull@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 02:47.48 | findlay | Maquis: do you really need an SCM? |
| 02:48.02 | Maquis | findlay: with the way i treat my computer.... yeah |
| 02:49.16 | Maquis | findlay: i started using svn in january, and was startled to realize how often it saved me |
| 02:49.28 | Maquis | now i'm scared to not have an SCM |
| 02:49.31 | findlay | (: |
| 02:50.07 | findlay | I remember a few times when I was using Linux for the first time at work and accidentally removing my home directory a couple of times |
| 02:50.50 | Maquis | haven't done that yet |
| 02:51.02 | Maquis | but i've done some pretty stupid things... |
| 02:51.22 | Maquis | the big question is, did you have root at that point? |
| 02:51.38 | findlay | no, thankfully (: |
| 02:52.20 | Maquis | :) |
| 02:52.31 | Maquis | see, all my mistakes are on my box |
| 02:52.33 | findlay | but when I first got my computer I installed redhad-8.0 on it and in a fit of anger deliberately did 'rm -rf /' as root |
| 02:52.33 | Maquis | where i have root |
| 02:52.41 | Maquis | ooh! |
| 02:52.59 | Maquis | i don't think i've ever gotten *that* mad |
| 02:53.00 | findlay | I ended up reinstalling it about 15 times before I stopped messing things up |
| 02:58.12 | vontrapp | halelujah!! |
| 02:58.19 | Maquis | vontrapp: ??? |
| 02:58.29 | vontrapp | ~spell halelujah |
| 02:58.41 | vontrapp | ah, two ll |
| 02:58.56 | vontrapp | i got the directional resizing |
| 02:58.58 | findlay | 2 eleven? |
| 02:59.46 | Maquis | vontrapp: sweet :) |
| 02:59.54 | vontrapp | it's especially good when you only want to strech a window one way (vert|hor) |
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| 03:14.07 | findlay | ~lart manti telephone, please |
| 03:14.18 | goozbach | my shoes are filled with beer, my ears are ringing, and my eyes are burning |
| 03:14.29 | goozbach | awesome concert |
| 03:15.30 | LeviHome | What concert? |
| 03:15.44 | goozbach | less than jake |
| 03:17.37 | LeviHome | Hmm. Why would you want less than jake? Why not the real Jake? Or Better than Jake? |
| 03:17.53 | LeviHome | Or Better than Ezra for that matter. |
| 03:18.56 | goozbach | because lessthanjake roxors |
| 03:19.43 | LeviHome | If less than jake is good, wouldn't jake be better? |
| 03:19.53 | Maquis | LeviHome: maybe he's a minimalist |
| 03:19.54 | LeviHome | Or is this a 'less is more' thing? |
| 03:20.09 | goozbach | yup |
| 03:25.58 | LeviHome | 'worse is better'? |
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| 03:48.27 | findlay | killall |
| 03:48.31 | findlay | whatever |
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| 04:01.19 | LeviHome | findlay: Violent, eh? |
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| 04:01.54 | findlay | wrong window |
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| 06:34.44 | LeviHome | Ahh, the Unix Haters Handbook is good reading. :) |
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| 13:59.08 | dataw0lf|w | "Pope Emerges From Chrysalis A Beautiful Butterfly" rofl |
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| 14:48.55 | Uncle_Jesse | cool! someone just mispelled "perplexed" as "perlexed" - that's my type of typo! |
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| 15:10.49 | hans | ~lart vontrapp |
| 15:12.45 | Uncle_Jesse | ~lart tigris for being down |
| 15:13.36 | Uncle_Jesse | How am I supposed to rtfm if their site isn't even available? |
| 15:13.49 | Uncle_Jesse | any svn users here? |
| 15:14.35 | Uncle_Jesse | ~lart the lack of svn users in #utah |
| 15:14.45 | Uncle_Jesse | ~lart lart lart! |
| 15:17.48 | spr | Uncle_Jesse, http://svnbook.red-bean.com/ is still up |
| 15:18.16 | dataw0lf|w | I use svn |
| 15:18.22 | spr | THat's all I ever use as a reference |
| 15:18.47 | hans | bleh. notes has its client but not the admin client available for mac |
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| 15:25.11 | Uncle_Jesse | spr: thanks |
| 15:25.51 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: as in Lotus notes? |
| 15:26.12 | hans | ya |
| 15:26.34 | levi | Uncle_Jesse: Someone who's perlexed something is very likely to be perplexed as well. ;) |
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| 15:26.58 | hans | ~lart lukfugl |
| 15:33.54 | Uncle_Jesse | ~lart levi |
| 15:34.24 | Uncle_Jesse | alright - I've created a repository called PDFArchive, but when I do svn checkout on it I get: |
| 15:35.10 | Uncle_Jesse | svn: URL 'http://localhost/repos/PDFArchive' doesn't exist |
| 15:35.22 | Uncle_Jesse | yet it is now in /var/svnrepos |
| 15:35.43 | levi | I spent way too long last night reading the Unix Haters Handbook. |
| 15:36.19 | Uncle_Jesse | weird - PDFArchive is the only repository listed in that directory |
| 15:36.29 | Uncle_Jesse | my other repositories aren't showing |
| 15:36.34 | Uncle_Jesse | but I can access them |
| 15:46.21 | emcnabb | here goes the WOW talk again... |
| 15:47.02 | lukfugl | I don't see it |
| 15:48.38 | emcnabb | in our office |
| 15:49.04 | lukfugl | ah |
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| 15:55.32 | hans | emcnabb: just bring in a boar and let it attack them. |
| 15:57.01 | Uncle_Jesse | k - now I'm really ticked |
| 15:57.08 | Uncle_Jesse | so much for Subversion |
| 15:57.35 | Uncle_Jesse | My boss just put an end to my using it for personal use because "a formal process" hasn't been established for using it yet |
| 15:57.48 | Uncle_Jesse | so now I have no revision control |
| 15:58.01 | asynic | .... how does your boss have any control over what you use for personal use? |
| 15:58.02 | vontrapp | "a formal process"? |
| 15:58.16 | hans | so write a formal process |
| 16:00.25 | vontrapp | is there any way to configure the special chars xterm inserts with the alt key? |
| 16:03.30 | Uncle_Jesse | asynic: he's my boss - he controls everything |
| 16:04.05 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: you don't realize what that involves. The reason I've been running this is so I had a temporary solution in place until the "formal process" was developed |
| 16:05.46 | hans | he tells you what editor to use and where to save your files too? |
| 16:05.50 | Uncle_Jesse | This sucks - I've had bosses before that would fire me for *not* having a revision control system |
| 16:06.16 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: technically, those are supposed to be approved as well |
| 16:06.34 | Uncle_Jesse | in fact our admin rights are supposed to be taken from our computers in the near future - even in IT |
| 16:06.53 | hans | sounds like a fun place to work |
| 16:07.17 | Uncle_Jesse | My department isn't allowed to even have sudo on the Linux machines, despite that being our primary development environment |
| 16:07.33 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: it's getting more fun by the day :-) |
| 16:07.34 | levi | This is interesting: http://www.windley.com/archives/2005/04/vint_cerf_on_in.shtml |
| 16:07.35 | hans | well I wouldn't give sudo to developers either |
| 16:07.49 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: why not? |
| 16:08.12 | Uncle_Jesse | even on dev machines? |
| 16:08.20 | Jayce^ | Uncle_Jesse, a dev doesn't need sudo, doubly so for anything production |
| 16:08.41 | tensai | root passwords for everyone! |
| 16:09.09 | Uncle_Jesse | Jayce^: I agree, but you must have some sort of sandbox environment you can afford to mess up don't you think? |
| 16:09.47 | asynic | there I go... |
| 16:10.05 | hans | Uncle_Jesse: I don't see why you'd need sudo on a dev box where you wouldn't on a production box |
| 16:10.17 | hans | it's not like you can practice something to do on production, since you can't do it on production |
| 16:10.30 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: it's just harder w/o root or sudo |
| 16:10.40 | hans | what makes it harder? |
| 16:11.00 | Uncle_Jesse | perl by default needs root access for most CPAN modules to install |
| 16:11.26 | hans | and what then? those modules will need to be installed on the production box, but you're not the one doing it |
| 16:11.47 | hans | and what if your admins won't for security reasons or others, but your code is tied to the modules you installed? |
| 16:11.53 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: to me I think it should be the developer's responsibility to provide packages for IT to install easily on the production box |
| 16:12.08 | Jayce^ | Uncle_Jesse, you can do them in your own section |
| 16:12.12 | Jayce^ | your own user |
| 16:12.20 | Jayce^ | proper dev env would use that |
| 16:12.33 | Uncle_Jesse | Jayce^: but not by default - you have to set env variables to do wo |
| 16:12.35 | Uncle_Jesse | so |
| 16:12.40 | hans | so set them |
| 16:12.48 | Jayce^ | yeah, any user can set that |
| 16:13.09 | Uncle_Jesse | Jayce^: come on - you should be defending the long developer vs IT argument :-) |
| 16:13.59 | Jayce^ | Uncle_Jesse, heck know, I've had to do that at too many places, gimmie proper seperation |
| 16:14.10 | hans | I'm both in different places. I wouldn't expect special privileges as a developer and wouldn't trust a developer with special privileges as IT. I don't see the big deal. |
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| 16:15.12 | Uncle_Jesse | I'd be more trusting if IT were more knowledgable in Linux environments |
| 16:15.45 | hans | well that's a separate issue |
| 16:16.26 | Uncle_Jesse | that's really my issue - I agree it would be nice to have separation, but there's also the trust and respect for the code I write issue I have to worry about |
| 16:17.03 | Uncle_Jesse | I want to be sure my code is always working and I always have a backup plan |
| 16:18.47 | Uncle_Jesse | I'm mainly just complaining about not having a version control system in place though :-) |
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| 16:31.28 | hans | I'm def |
| 16:33.03 | lukfugl | I'm end |
| 16:33.20 | vontrapp | I'm fed (/me rubs tummy) |
| 16:33.43 | hans | got a job as a test pilot |
| 16:33.51 | lukfugl | wha? |
| 16:33.56 | vontrapp | so you get to fly me places? |
| 16:34.00 | hans | tmbg |
| 16:35.24 | hans | http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/index.php/I%27m_Def |
| 16:40.10 | levi | I was just listening to 'Then and Now' today. |
| 16:40.40 | levi | I'm goin' down to cow town; the cows are friends of me. |
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| 16:48.34 | bucky | ~moo |
| 16:48.35 | ibot | mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass, or http://www.linuks.mine.nu/moo/ |
| 16:49.08 | Jayce^ | hrm, does ibot have cowsay? |
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| 16:57.03 | hans | anyone versed in how zenworks is licensed? |
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| 16:59.49 | Uncle_Jesse | oops - sorry |
| 16:59.53 | Uncle_Jesse | did you guys get that? |
| 17:03.10 | levi | Unless you mean your disconnect message or apology, no. |
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| 17:04.12 | Uncle_Jesse | good |
| 17:04.26 | Uncle_Jesse | I was trying figlet but it crashed me |
| 17:06.58 | Maquis | /bin/sh: line 1: cowspeak: command not found |
| 17:07.13 | Maquis | hmmm.. |
| 17:07.31 | lukfugl | hey, anyone in here playing the tradewars game that was announced on UUG recently? |
| 17:07.31 | Maquis | i have figlet |
| 17:07.43 | Maquis | lukfugl: haven't had time to try it out |
| 17:07.46 | vontrapp | ~figlet |
| 17:07.47 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, figlet is a nice program to make big ASCII characters out of normal text using nice fonts. There is a debian package available, just run \"apt-get install figlet\" :D |
| 17:08.05 | lukfugl | I was just noticing that since the 10 minutes I played this morning I've suddenly acquired 10,000 credits and 30 extra cargo holds |
| 17:08.08 | Maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:08.08 | Maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:08.08 | Maquis | | |_| |/ _` | |/ _ \ __| |
| 17:08.08 | Maquis | | _| | (_| | | __/ |_ |
| 17:08.08 | Maquis | |_| |_|\__, |_|\___|\__| |
| 17:08.11 | Maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:08.15 | levi | Whoa, tradewars. |
| 17:08.21 | lukfugl | just wondering if that's due to a server reconfig or what |
| 17:08.30 | Maquis | lukfugl: that's sweet |
| 17:08.43 | lukfugl | Maquis: yeah, I just wish I knew where it came from :) |
| 17:08.48 | levi | I used to play a game that was kind of like tradewars, but I liked it a lot more. |
| 17:08.51 | Maquis | i wouldn't complain |
| 17:08.56 | levi | I think it was called Galactic Warzone or something. |
| 17:09.53 | Jayce^ | levi was that the one where you controlled various planets, and built industry/armies to expand? |
| 17:09.55 | vontrapp | darn, figlet doesn't do unicode |
| 17:10.22 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:10.36 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:10.42 | Maquis | ~lart sjansen |
| 17:10.46 | sjansen | So who here doubts that XSLT is a painful language? |
| 17:10.54 | Jayce^ | no doubts here |
| 17:10.56 | vontrapp | heh, speaking of cows... |
| 17:11.07 | Jayce^ | try doing recursion in it :) |
| 17:11.14 | levi | Jayce^: Hmm. Maybe it is, but I really meant a different one. |
| 17:11.46 | Jayce^ | levi, dunno, the game I described I loved, but can't remember the name for it :) |
| 17:12.00 | sjansen | I just wrote three substring replaces. In any sane language, that'd take three lines. In XSLT it took me 48. |
| 17:12.25 | Jayce^ | sjansen, I just about gave a coworker a conniption once by using xslt.. |
| 17:12.33 | sjansen | Jayce^: Do you mean iteration? 'Cause recursion is very easy. |
| 17:12.55 | Jayce^ | built a survey system, which dumped an xml version of the survey object, then xslt mapped it to various formats |
| 17:12.58 | Jayce^ | sjansen, yeah |
| 17:13.22 | Jayce^ | should find that stuff, was a crazy xslt doc |
| 17:17.51 | lukfugl | end of what test? |
| 17:17.57 | Maquis | the test i took yesterday |
| 17:18.08 | bucky | fat12 filesystem? |
| 17:18.20 | Maquis | bucky: that's over and i'm never thinking about it again |
| 17:18.46 | dataw0lf|w | what about fat12 ? |
| 17:18.46 | emcnabb | http://msdn.microsoft.com/coding4fun/ |
| 17:19.32 | bucky | dataw0lf, maquis doesn't want to talk about it |
| 17:19.42 | dataw0lf|w | ah, I see. |
| 17:20.22 | Maquis | emcnabb: what are they trying to say with this site? |
| 17:20.45 | emcnabb | not sure |
| 17:20.56 | emcnabb | I just found it funny |
| 17:21.00 | levi | Despite not having love for Microsoft, it seems like a cool page. |
| 17:21.13 | sjansen | emcnabb wants to get a tatoo, so he's doing research |
| 17:21.36 | bucky | emcnabb, that guy with the headphones is stoned |
| 17:21.38 | lukfugl | emcnabb: you'll need the soul patch to go with it though, just keep that in mind |
| 17:22.12 | bucky | sjansen, a tattoo of the bsd devil ? |
| 17:22.44 | dataw0lf|w | how is the guy stoned? |
| 17:22.55 | bucky | look at his eyes |
| 17:23.01 | bucky | he's loaded |
| 17:23.16 | dataw0lf|w | No, he's just got weird blue eyes. |
| 17:23.20 | levi | Jayce^: I think the door game was Galactic Warzone. Here's the zip: http://www.sb-software.com/old/galwar.html |
| 17:23.24 | dataw0lf|w | Unless marijuana affects your eye color. |
| 17:23.31 | dataw0lf|w | I think you're making a presumption based on his tattoos. |
| 17:23.37 | bucky | lol |
| 17:23.39 | sjansen | bucky must have a higher resolution monitor |
| 17:23.57 | dataw0lf|w | I doubt it. |
| 17:24.01 | sjansen | all I see is reflection off his glasses |
| 17:25.20 | hans | oh, my favorite part of the semester. the point bartering |
| 17:35.07 | levi | Jayce^: A friend and I were the only ones playing a GalWar game, and we got excessively powerful. We started making plans to relink the universe to make the perfect trade routes, etc. |
| 17:35.47 | JoshH | if i were to ever get stoned, my eyes would be nice and white, thanks to clear eyes/visine |
| 17:36.12 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-67-161-242-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:36.53 | dataw0lf|w | that surely works. |
| 17:37.08 | JoshH | indeed |
| 17:41.03 | bucky | ~news slashdot 5 |
| 17:41.36 | bucky | bbl |
| 17:50.29 | levi | There were a couple of other really cool door games that were space sims of different sorts, but I can't remember their names at all. |
| 17:50.53 | vontrapp | opints? |
| 17:51.01 | vontrapp | er, points? |
| 17:55.26 | *** join/#utah xilch|w (~xilch@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:57.11 | *** join/#utah Uncle_Jesse (~Uncle_Jes@pool-70-105-1-245.rich.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:58.39 | *** join/#utah sjansen_ (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 18:05.57 | *** join/#utah respli1 (~richard@208.186.180.204) |
| 18:09.38 | levi | Jayce^: There's another old unix game called Galactic Bloodshed that I've been interested in for a long time. I'm trying to track down the source to it. |
| 18:10.32 | *** join/#utah RyanE (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 18:10.49 | Jayce^ | has anybody played with http://www.greenplum.com before? |
| 18:10.55 | Jayce^ | specifically their MPP product? |
| 18:11.04 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@thelances.net) |
| 18:11.19 | Jayce^ | basically, they claim to have a RAC type setup with postgres |
| 18:19.11 | fozz | RAC? |
| 18:20.48 | Jayce^ | Oracle RAC, their big linux cluster system |
| 18:21.05 | Jayce^ | this is a similar, built a shared-nothing cluster with PG |
| 18:21.11 | Jayce^ | interesting if it really does as advertised |
| 18:21.17 | Jayce^ | and does it well :) |
| 18:21.37 | fozz | No kidding. |
| 18:21.42 | fozz | Sounds cool. |
| 18:21.49 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 18:27.36 | findlay | ~feed sjansen-hungry |
| 18:27.39 | ibot | offers sjansen-hungry some |
| 18:30.00 | fozz | ~feed sjansen-hungry hairy spiders |
| 18:30.04 | ibot | offers sjansen-hungry hairy spiders some herring |
| 18:30.20 | fozz | bleh. |
| 18:33.33 | Uncle_Jesse | doesn't MySQL have a cluster option? |
| 18:35.15 | Jayce^ | different type of cluster |
| 18:36.06 | Uncle_Jesse | ah |
| 18:36.19 | Uncle_Jesse | I'll admit I haven't researched much on clusters |
| 18:36.37 | Jayce^ | this one is specifically tuned for parallel sql, so data warehousing, computational stuff |
| 18:36.54 | Jayce^ | it wouldn't help nearly as much for a web app style interface |
| 18:37.18 | Uncle_Jesse | yeah |
| 18:49.15 | dataw0lf|w | Sampan any good? |
| 18:51.43 | Uncle_Jesse | Sampan? |
| 18:51.54 | dataw0lf|w | Chinese place. |
| 18:51.58 | Uncle_Jesse | lol |
| 18:52.10 | Uncle_Jesse | Sampan is the Thai word for sex |
| 18:52.17 | dataw0lf|w | damn. |
| 18:52.20 | dataw0lf|w | it must be good then. |
| 18:52.21 | Uncle_Jesse | in case anyone wanted to know |
| 18:53.55 | vontrapp | wow, that's worthy of bash.org |
| 18:54.12 | Uncle_Jesse | lol |
| 19:01.02 | mrpull | hey mac geeks.... |
| 19:01.24 | mrpull | what do you use for console connections to network gear? |
| 19:01.33 | mrpull | (cisco switches in particular) |
| 19:02.13 | Uncle_Jesse | mrpull: if I remember it's not easy on a Mac - there are a couple howtos online, but you must buy accessories to make it work |
| 19:02.41 | mrpull | links? it is for a friend... he has a usb/serial converter |
| 19:04.14 | Uncle_Jesse | http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20040521145713551 |
| 19:04.33 | mrpull | i was afraid that was going to be the answer |
| 19:04.50 | Uncle_Jesse | I haven't tried it though - that seemed to be the only answer I could find when I was looking though |
| 19:05.03 | Uncle_Jesse | Best to use an intel for Cisco routers |
| 19:05.23 | sjansen | Or not use Cisco... |
| 19:06.00 | Jayce^ | cage |
| 19:06.01 | Jayce^ | ugh |
| 19:06.08 | Jayce^ | having trouble typing today |
| 19:06.13 | Jayce^ | too tired |
| 19:06.39 | Uncle_Jesse | sjansen: yeah - I gave up very quickly on Cisco, but I was trying to use it for home use |
| 19:06.40 | hans | you were afraid of what? |
| 19:06.51 | Uncle_Jesse | Cisco was not built for a home network |
| 19:07.38 | hans | mrpull: if you have the usb-serial adapter, then you should be able to just cable up and run a terminal emulator on the serial port. minicom is an example (install with fink) or it wouldn't surprise me if there's mac native ones |
| 19:07.48 | mrpull | i was afraid that fink+minicom was the answer |
| 19:07.54 | hans | if you don't have the cable, you can make one |
| 19:07.55 | mrpull | it's for a unix newbie |
| 19:08.46 | mrpull | i'll do a little leg work now... I was being lazy and hoping you guys knew a one-click solution |
| 19:08.52 | hans | mrpull: then, zterm |
| 19:08.57 | Uncle_Jesse | Why is a unix newbie trying to use a cisco router? |
| 19:09.03 | hans | that's what a quick google search indicates anyway. |
| 19:09.12 | mrpull | because he is a pure network admin |
| 19:09.16 | mrpull | ahhh zterm is working. |
| 19:09.17 | mrpull | nm |
| 19:09.30 | dataw0lf|w | and he doesn't know unix? |
| 19:09.36 | mrpull | he can afford the 20 bucks for zterm |
| 19:09.39 | *** join/#utah flyboy^ (~flyboy@69.20.57.22) |
| 19:09.48 | flyboy^ | huh - 1:00pm up 442 days, 12:32, 1 user, load average: 0.50, 0.36, 0.13 |
| 19:09.56 | flyboy^ | And I have to reboot. :( |
| 19:09.59 | sjansen | dataw0lf: I've worked with plenty of network admins that couldn't survive outside of Windows or Cisco hardware. |
| 19:10.01 | mrpull | i know he makes twice what I do... :) |
| 19:10.05 | hans | seems to me he could afford learning a bit about unix too |
| 19:10.14 | dataw0lf|w | sjansen: odd. |
| 19:10.24 | hans | fink+minicom isn't all that hard |
| 19:10.41 | mrpull | for me an you... easy |
| 19:10.58 | mrpull | for him..... a total mac newbie w/ no unix background? |
| 19:11.27 | hans | it's not like he has to shell script. installing fink is only an excercise in following instructions, (and not a lot at that) |
| 19:11.40 | hans | and using minicom is no worse than procomm was |
| 19:11.45 | hans | back in the dos days |
| 19:11.58 | mrpull | no worries. all is well now. |
| 19:12.16 | Uncle_Jesse | brings back a lot of bbs memories |
| 19:12.27 | hans | all is well except that he's still in his little "I can be an IT professional and a computer idiot at the same time" bubble. ;-) |
| 19:12.48 | mrpull | yup. such is life. |
| 19:12.53 | hans | indeed |
| 19:13.02 | hans | more room for us at the top, right? :) |
| 19:13.08 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 19:13.39 | sjansen | heh |
| 19:16.14 | hans | burlington coat factory uses linux. maybe I'll go buy a hat. |
| 19:16.33 | Uncle_Jesse | Doesn't walmart use linux? |
| 19:16.42 | Uncle_Jesse | I know papa johns does |
| 19:17.09 | sjansen | You want to make good money? Get certified as an Oracle DBA and a Cisco (whatever the step is above their easy lower level). |
| 19:17.23 | Uncle_Jesse | ccne |
| 19:17.44 | sjansen | There's too many people for whom Linux is such a joy they'd do it even for peanuts. |
| 19:18.15 | hans | sjansen: that's bad? |
| 19:18.27 | Uncle_Jesse | I just don't like Oracle or Cisco enough to make it my primary job |
| 19:18.45 | sjansen | hans: No. But it doesn't exact help thos of us "at the top". |
| 19:19.30 | hans | I think we passed eachother in the hall somewhere |
| 19:19.49 | Uncle_Jesse | do you guys work at the same place? |
| 19:20.01 | hans | yeah, utah |
| 19:20.06 | Uncle_Jesse | I know that |
| 19:20.20 | Uncle_Jesse | ~lart hans |
| 19:22.00 | hans | right. I think we are using different definitions of top |
| 19:22.14 | hans | or, different comparison functions, if you like. |
| 19:22.36 | hans | images of stl usage are swarming my mind |
| 19:23.28 | hans | thanks. wasn't sure whether to scream, smile, or laugh |
| 19:25.05 | hans | I'm not quite sure why, but this wacko jacko song (Man in the Mirror) is reminding me of the barge scene at the beginning of RoTJ |
| 19:27.47 | levi | hans, that's very strange. |
| 19:28.10 | hans | yeah, I was getting disturbed by images of llando and han dancing to MJ, so I skipped the song. |
| 19:29.05 | sjansen | hans daydreams about dancing with Michael Jackson? |
| 19:29.30 | hans | han, not hans. many people can tell the difference between us, but not all |
| 19:30.44 | levi | It disturbs me that the only real OS architectures that fledgeling programmers have to look at these days are Unix and NT. |
| 19:30.57 | vontrapp | is this a ipv6 address? |
| 19:31.04 | vontrapp | Connecting to ftp.nerim.net (2001:7a8:1:5::14) |
| 19:31.46 | sjansen | vontrapp: yup |
| 19:31.48 | levi | They both suck a lot less now than DOS, but there's a lot lacking in them as well. |
| 19:33.09 | hans | levi: so your dismay is that something better didn't reach critical mass, or that nothing better has been invented? |
| 19:33.14 | vontrapp | odd that it would resolve to an ipv6 for me, then fail |
| 19:33.29 | levi | hans: Well, a combination of both. |
| 19:34.08 | levi | hans: There are lots of things in the past that had great features that few 'Linux roxxors!' kids will see and want to emulate in the future. |
| 19:34.51 | levi | hans: And there's really a lot of brain-dead stuff in unix that made a lot of sense at the time, but is far from optimal now. |
| 19:35.30 | hans | I think technology evolution is fascinating |
| 19:35.55 | levi | hans: This is part of my general rant that there's not a lot of looking back amongst computer folks. |
| 19:35.59 | hans | how some things can be rapidly deserted and other things persist across all time, like the width of ruts in roman roads |
| 19:36.32 | hans | I don't think we're in danger of not having enough innovative ideas though |
| 19:36.58 | hans | it is a pity that some might rethink up the same things that were already thought up before their time, but if it's really the right thing it will be thought of |
| 19:37.14 | levi | hans: A lot of problems were solved elegantly in systems that don't exist in common use anymore, but there's not a lot of looking at history. |
| 19:39.26 | levi | hans: And there's a lot of worship of Unix and its subsystems that isn't really deserved on technical merits. |
| 19:40.34 | hans | I agree. I think it's comparative superlation. unix is the best forerunning technology so it is therefore the best possible |
| 19:41.12 | vontrapp | eventually the "Yes! we're free from microsoft et al" will blow over and people will start to reflect on what we really have |
| 19:48.38 | levi | I don't know, the whole free software movement is pretty full of zealotry. |
| 19:48.52 | hans | everybody is |
| 19:50.00 | levi | Well, the difference is that in the free software movement, the zealots drive the development to a much larger degree than they do in the rest of the software world. |
| 19:51.51 | hans | i meant everybody is full of zealotry in something. it's human nature |
| 19:52.42 | hans | you can even see it here in #utah! yes, it's true! |
| 19:57.53 | sjansen | Quiver and bow before my gmake sKiLlZ! |
| 19:58.30 | Jayce^ | quiver and bow, sjansen you playing WoW now? |
| 19:58.45 | Jayce^ | sword too? |
| 19:58.57 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 19:59.03 | Maquis | quiver and bow? YAY! |
| 19:59.20 | Jayce^ | or are you just hyping those bowhunting skills of yours |
| 20:00.24 | sjansen | Jayce^: Reverence me you unworthy mortal! |
| 20:00.46 | sjansen | ls |
| 20:01.06 | Jayce^ | unworthy of that 'eh? |
| 20:01.11 | vontrapp | man, hotkeys won't stay running |
| 20:01.49 | Jayce^ | err, friends :) |
| 20:01.59 | Jayce^ | anyone up to try paintball on saturday AM? |
| 20:04.02 | dataw0lf|w | what type of gun do you have? :) |
| 20:04.19 | Jayce^ | my main is an autococker trilogy pro |
| 20:04.30 | Jayce^ | I'm cheap :) |
| 20:05.52 | dataw0lf|w | heh. |
| 20:05.56 | dataw0lf|w | yeah, I'll play you. |
| 20:06.02 | dataw0lf|w | and anybody else who's got the guts. |
| 20:06.13 | *** join/#utah mheath (~Michael@c-67-161-213-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:06.19 | Jayce^ | hehe, got a lot of folks around that play |
| 20:06.33 | vontrapp | i'd like to... |
| 20:07.19 | Jayce^ | for first timers |
| 20:07.20 | vontrapp | and is leaving for the weekend besides |
| 20:07.21 | dataw0lf|w | yeah, so do I. |
| 20:07.22 | bbeattie | Just hunting around for a cell phone.. I'll likely go with cingular since it's what the family has. Anyone know of a good cell phone with an ssh client? |
| 20:07.29 | dataw0lf|w | I got a tournament ready gun that I could loan somebody. |
| 20:07.43 | sjansen | bbeattie: treo 650 ;-) |
| 20:07.52 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, what gun you shoot |
| 20:08.00 | dataw0lf|w | I have two SP Impulses. |
| 20:08.09 | sjansen | Jayce^: Maybe... |
| 20:08.10 | Jayce^ | good old impulses |
| 20:08.16 | emcnabb | pssh on the Treo 650 |
| 20:08.48 | Jayce^ | sjansen, going to be playing in provo this time, one of the common grounds (airport, squaw peak, or south provo |
| 20:08.49 | bbeattie | okay, that's going to cost somewhere under $150 for the phone after rebate? :) |
| 20:09.01 | emcnabb | haha |
| 20:09.06 | Uncle_Jesse | bbeattie: any of the pocketpc ones can have pocket putty |
| 20:09.20 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: yeah, I used to be the leader of my unit's paintball team, been playing for a while, but haven't played really since the move to utah. |
| 20:09.34 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, a lot of good groups around here |
| 20:09.38 | emcnabb | bbeattie: http://treocentral.com/content/Stories/587-1.htm |
| 20:09.42 | emcnabb | a day late though |
| 20:09.46 | vontrapp | i managed to lose a phone in shipping from cingular, and the whole thing ended up in a deadlock where nobody could get me the phone or my money |
| 20:09.52 | Jayce^ | used to do more tourney stuff, but too many hotheads, so I do more stickball now |
| 20:09.53 | vontrapp | had to file a charge dispute with the bank |
| 20:10.02 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: word. |
| 20:10.33 | Jayce^ | parapalegic turtles is high class, they tend to be real fun |
| 20:10.46 | Jayce^ | inazuma and such tend to be pricks if they lose |
| 20:10.55 | dataw0lf|w | that's a shame for them. |
| 20:10.59 | dataw0lf|w | because it's about that time. |
| 20:11.10 | Jayce^ | oh yeah, spring tourney's starting up |
| 20:11.23 | Jayce^ | several indoor places have them, and nppl should come back |
| 20:12.02 | hans | snow never stopped Jayce^ |
| 20:12.02 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: you use nitro or CO2? |
| 20:12.02 | Jayce^ | nitro |
| 20:12.02 | Jayce^ | of course |
| 20:12.02 | hans | his is a blow gun |
| 20:12.07 | Jayce^ | hans, I do have one of those too :) |
| 20:12.08 | sjansen | Jayce^: has good lungs |
| 20:12.15 | sjansen | all that hot air, you see |
| 20:13.14 | Jayce^ | pegleg is in negotiations to open an outdoor field again, at the ranches :) |
| 20:13.15 | dataw0lf|w | now you got me all excited about paintball again. |
| 20:13.28 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, around hear, especially summer, you'll hear a lot about it :) |
| 20:13.33 | Jayce^ | here... grrr |
| 20:14.03 | Jayce^ | a friend just picked up the new wgp super stock... very nice setup for the price |
| 20:14.19 | Jayce^ | nice mid-level cocker |
| 20:14.33 | dataw0lf|w | I'm going to get a SP Nerve here soon. |
| 20:14.45 | Jayce^ | why the nerve? |
| 20:15.00 | dataw0lf|w | best gun SP makes, imho. |
| 20:15.14 | Jayce^ | the new bko's and such are really getting some better specs and great prices.. |
| 20:15.27 | dataw0lf|w | I dunno, I'm a SP man. |
| 20:15.27 | Jayce^ | the newest bko has some sweet speed |
| 20:15.38 | dataw0lf|w | that Nerve fires around 25-30 bps |
| 20:15.51 | Jayce^ | tourney trigger? |
| 20:15.58 | dataw0lf|w | and SP of course has minimal ball breakage |
| 20:16.03 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 20:16.06 | dataw0lf|w | 4 point magno |
| 20:16.32 | Jayce^ | I'm hoping pegleg does another pump tourney when they reopen |
| 20:16.43 | Jayce^ | I'm a classic kinda guy |
| 20:17.16 | Jayce^ | vontrapp, depends on the type of game you are playing |
| 20:17.23 | vontrapp | yeah, that's true |
| 20:17.24 | Jayce^ | speedball/hyperball, that's not an option |
| 20:17.28 | dataw0lf|w | I know all about stealth and accuracy. |
| 20:17.36 | dataw0lf|w | <-- ex 19d Pathfinder |
| 20:17.39 | Jayce^ | most tourney's just play that type of game |
| 20:18.01 | dataw0lf|w | and the SPs are a bit loud, comparatively. |
| 20:18.04 | Jayce^ | which means 1-4 minute games :) and a *lot* of paint |
| 20:18.20 | dataw0lf|w | what's the best outdoor arena around here? |
| 20:18.38 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@71.32.228.156) |
| 20:18.42 | Jayce^ | dunno north slc, I stick south.. and showdown closed, so waiting for pegleg.. |
| 20:19.01 | Jayce^ | but I play more stick, so there are a lot of unofficial places (no pay/no service) |
| 20:19.05 | dataw0lf|w | where is pegleg ? |
| 20:19.18 | vontrapp | if i were to go paintballing it would be for a crawling in the dirt, ducking behind trees kinda game |
| 20:19.26 | Jayce^ | pegleg has a store in west valley I think, but they have AF and Orem also |
| 20:19.35 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: word, we should start our own tourney. |
| 20:19.35 | Jayce^ | vontrapp, that's stickball |
| 20:20.12 | Jayce^ | http://www.utahpaintball.com/ |
| 20:20.13 | dataw0lf|w | my personal fave, especially if you have a decent league that you can organize stickball meets. |
| 20:20.22 | dataw0lf|w | word |
| 20:20.31 | emcnabb | Jayce^ is scared of me joining the tourney |
| 20:20.32 | sjansen | What the? There's an rm that's suddently appeared in my makefile. |
| 20:21.48 | Jayce^ | sjansen, I did it |
| 20:22.03 | Jayce^ | emcnabb, bring it, I'll treat you like I treated your coworker :) |
| 20:22.17 | emcnabb | haha |
| 20:22.18 | jsmith | sjansen: That's a feature, not a bug |
| 20:22.33 | emcnabb | I remember how someone that day had key problems |
| 20:22.47 | sjansen | jsmith: It might very well be. Just one I hadn't run into yet. |
| 20:23.27 | Jayce^ | emcnabb, do it, my wife plays now |
| 20:23.50 | sjansen | emcnabb's afraid of being schooled |
| 20:24.05 | emcnabb | we'll see; her family is in town for her graduation; I know sometime on Saturday they have a family birthday party for her Grandpa |
| 20:24.11 | dataw0lf|w | I don't think any of you realize the anguish and frustration you shall meet at my hands. |
| 20:25.42 | emcnabb | sjansen can't even survive for 1 minute in bzblag |
| 20:25.46 | emcnabb | bzflag |
| 20:25.58 | emcnabb | I've seen his bzflag skills |
| 20:26.14 | Maquis | they've gotta be better than mine |
| 20:26.33 | emcnabb | um... no |
| 20:26.46 | dataw0lf|w | I'm not very good at bzflag, to be honest. |
| 20:27.12 | sjansen | Maquis: Considering I've devoted about five minutes of my life to bzflag, I'm pretty sure they are. |
| 20:27.48 | Maquis | sjansen: :) |
| 20:28.07 | Maquis | the people who'd never played before were doing better than me at the uug fragfest |
| 20:28.08 | Maquis | :) |
| 20:32.45 | hans | dataw0lf|w: you used to be an SUV? |
| 20:33.16 | Maquis | that was a disaster :) |
| 20:35.35 | mheath | Gah! I have a curse. |
| 20:35.42 | dataw0lf|w | hans: huh? |
| 20:36.06 | hans | dataw0lf|w: you said you were a pathfinder |
| 20:36.27 | dataw0lf|w | hans: 19d == cavalry scout Pathfinder == sf school for cavalry scouts |
| 20:36.37 | sjansen | dataw0lf: pathfinder == SUV |
| 20:36.48 | dataw0lf|w | hans: I was an Attack Pathfinder in the 1/1 cav. |
| 20:36.49 | sjansen | You gas guzzling, earth destroyer. |
| 20:37.03 | hans | ong live suburbans! |
| 20:37.27 | hans | dataw0lf|w: so military? I'm still having a hard time with the acronyms and jargon. |
| 20:37.31 | dataw0lf|w | sjansen: that's a bit disrespectful. Three of my pathfinder friends died in Iraq so people could guzzle gas over here. |
| 20:37.32 | sjansen | hans: Bet you he tells himself "it's for the kids". |
| 20:37.41 | hans | I didn't know we still had a cavalry, or do they just drive jeeps and tanks now? |
| 20:37.50 | dataw0lf|w | hans: US Army, yes. I ETSed last June. |
| 20:37.56 | dataw0lf|w | hans: Choppers |
| 20:38.03 | sjansen | dataw0lf: I don't mean to be dis-respectful. Just the standard #utah deliberate misinterpretation. |
| 20:38.13 | hans | ah, so chopers is cavalry? I love flying things |
| 20:38.26 | dataw0lf|w | which I found rather rude, sjansen. |
| 20:38.31 | dataw0lf|w | and inappropriate. |
| 20:38.46 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 20:38.59 | hans | so a pathfinder goes ahead and finds a path, I'm guessing? sounds stealthy indeed |
| 20:39.01 | Jayce^ | Big Red 'eh? |
| 20:39.35 | dataw0lf|w | hans: Yes, I went to 19d school at Ft. Knox and Ft. Bragg, Pathfinder school at Ft. Bragg / Ft. Bliss, and Air Assault school at Ft. Bragg. Basically, a pathfinder is dropped (air assault) from a helicopter and/or rappels behind enemy lines and sets up various crap for the choppers |
| 20:40.21 | Jayce^ | Pathfinders started in WWII, guys who were dropped ahead of time in Normandy to guide the paratroopers to the right spot |
| 20:40.32 | Uncle_Jesse | So tell me - do you all buy new servers for every new app/project you install or do you share apps under one server? |
| 20:40.40 | vontrapp | in sjansen's defense, i think you got the wrong context. the gas guzzling, earth destroying was refering to SUV's |
| 20:40.41 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: that's the 1st ID. |
| 20:40.45 | sjansen | dataw0lf: Well than, I will apologize. |
| 20:40.57 | RyanE | besides, a *Nissan* Pathfinder which I would suppose sjansen is talking about is *hardly* an SUV... teeny thing. |
| 20:41.02 | hans | Uncle_Jesse: I'm detecting a hint of flamebait. as in, you want to flame your work again |
| 20:41.15 | mheath | dataw0lf|w, what have you thought of the military? I've considered enlisting |
| 20:41.18 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: not necessarily - just trying to understand their ways |
| 20:41.23 | dataw0lf|w | mheath: go AF. |
| 20:41.23 | hans | the SUV misclassification would have been my fault. |
| 20:41.26 | dataw0lf|w | or Marines. |
| 20:41.33 | mheath | dataw0lf, yeah, I was looking at AF or Navy |
| 20:41.38 | dataw0lf|w | no, don't go Navy. |
| 20:41.44 | Jayce^ | hehe.. |
| 20:41.50 | mheath | Why? I have a friend in the navy |
| 20:42.01 | mheath | Doesn't sound too bad. |
| 20:42.02 | hans | my f-i-l is navy. captain |
| 20:42.03 | dataw0lf|w | the Navy/Army officers like to step on the enlisted on their way up. |
| 20:42.18 | dataw0lf|w | whilst AF and Marines take care of the troops. |
| 20:42.36 | mheath | Er, If I enlist I'm going to do ROTC in college |
| 20:42.38 | sjansen | My dad was a Navy officer, his advice was to go AF if I did joy the military. |
| 20:42.42 | mheath | Help pay for college. |
| 20:42.54 | mheath | So I will be one of those officers :D |
| 20:42.54 | Uncle_Jesse | This is my first large beuracracy I've worked for - trying to understand the whole "large company" IT framework |
| 20:42.56 | Jayce^ | that's not enlisting :) |
| 20:42.59 | levi | sjansen: joy the military? |
| 20:43.06 | sjansen | join |
| 20:43.08 | dataw0lf|w | mheath: well then you'll be a commissioned officer, not enlisted (unless you count while you're in college, which is like some type of vacation deal) |
| 20:43.22 | mheath | Good point. |
| 20:43.27 | dataw0lf|w | sjansen: he was correct. |
| 20:43.31 | hans | Uncle_Jesse: if you use a new server for every app, you obviously have too big of a budget |
| 20:43.37 | dataw0lf|w | airmen get it really, really easy. |
| 20:43.38 | hans | unless you know you're going to need it |
| 20:43.41 | dataw0lf|w | it's basically a 9-5 job. |
| 20:43.57 | levi | My dad was an officer in the Army. He loved it. |
| 20:43.59 | mheath | dataw0lf, how many people do you know who have enlisted and worked from E-1 to officer ranks? |
| 20:44.07 | dataw0lf|w | in the Army, and Navy, you'll regularly work 12-18 hour days, 7 days a week. |
| 20:44.10 | levi | Did ROTC, etc. |
| 20:44.12 | dataw0lf|w | mheath: few. |
| 20:44.17 | mheath | My dad made it from E-1 to O-5, but it seems rare. |
| 20:44.21 | dataw0lf|w | mheath: Green to Gold is very, very hard to do. |
| 20:44.24 | Jayce^ | and get paid crap for your hours :) |
| 20:44.26 | dataw0lf|w | it's better just to go enlisted. |
| 20:44.28 | dataw0lf|w | then get out |
| 20:44.29 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: that's my thinking |
| 20:44.34 | dataw0lf|w | go to college |
| 20:44.36 | dataw0lf|w | then go officer |
| 20:44.39 | Uncle_Jesse | Go AF btw |
| 20:44.41 | dataw0lf|w | *shrug* |
| 20:44.49 | mheath | My only real motivation to enlist would be college money |
| 20:44.50 | hans | but if you have the money to throw at it, why not? |
| 20:44.54 | spr | yay! I might not flunk out of school! |
| 20:45.03 | dataw0lf|w | mheath: well, they'll give you the GI bill. |
| 20:45.06 | sjansen | ~flunk spr |
| 20:45.11 | ibot | ACTION gives spr a big fat F |
| 20:45.12 | levi | spr: Flunking out of school sucks. Congrats for not doing it. ;) |
| 20:45.12 | dataw0lf|w | so if you're just going for college money, definitely go AF. |
| 20:45.21 | dataw0lf|w | you won't have the spunk to make it in the Army. |
| 20:45.26 | dataw0lf|w | or Marines. |
| 20:45.27 | mheath | My dad was in the AF |
| 20:45.28 | Jayce^ | or marines |
| 20:45.29 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 20:45.32 | dataw0lf|w | ;) |
| 20:45.39 | Jayce^ | AF is a cakewalk compared to the other branches |
| 20:45.42 | mheath | Joined it because he was about to get drafted |
| 20:45.46 | Uncle_Jesse | one Grandfather in AF, one in Army, both kernels |
| 20:45.51 | Uncle_Jesse | lol |
| 20:45.55 | Uncle_Jesse | colnels |
| 20:45.56 | hans | me, I'm probably not ever going to be military, but if I were it would be AF. although my eeys probably aren't good enough |
| 20:46.02 | Uncle_Jesse | ~spell colnel |
| 20:46.03 | mheath | Got a letter at home from the draft board....his parents called him up at college, let him know, and he went and joined the AF |
| 20:46.06 | Jayce^ | first gen of non-military even in my family |
| 20:46.08 | Uncle_Jesse | doh |
| 20:46.11 | mheath | It was meant to be a temporary thing....... |
| 20:46.13 | dataw0lf|w | I went to Pathfinder, E&E, and SFAS with some Marines/ex Marines, good guys. |
| 20:46.14 | Uncle_Jesse | colonel? |
| 20:46.21 | mheath | Ended up staying in there 20+ years, and retired as Lieutenant Colonel. |
| 20:46.32 | *** join/#utah ggundy (~ggundy@66.236.68.169.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:46.57 | mheath | spr, you in college? |
| 20:47.17 | Jayce^ | he likes to think so |
| 20:47.20 | levi | My dad retired as a Lt. Col. too. |
| 20:47.25 | levi | From the Army, though. |
| 20:47.32 | mheath | Agh. I need to turn off c-span..... |
| 20:47.50 | mheath | Before I used to just hate president bush. Now I hate the entire federal government. We elect stupid people. |
| 20:48.17 | dataw0lf|w | speak to your Utahn brothers, they helped the guy get elected in the first place. |
| 20:48.36 | mheath | Eh, none of the ones I've heard are from Utah |
| 20:49.03 | spr | mheath, yep |
| 20:49.05 | dataw0lf|w | I'm speaking more of the fact that Utah had the highest % of republicans in the elections. More so than Texas. |
| 20:49.14 | dataw0lf|w | I don't mind real republicans. |
| 20:49.23 | mheath | These people vary a lot.... |
| 20:49.39 | mheath | YOu'll have some polite lady who will speak quietly and slowly... |
| 20:49.52 | dataw0lf|w | ala McCain |
| 20:50.08 | Jayce^ | mccain '08 :) |
| 20:50.08 | mheath | Then some guy who will yell at half the room and speak as fast as he can. |
| 20:50.27 | mheath | This bill does NOTHING to benefit the AMERICAN PEOPLE! |
| 20:50.33 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: Agreed. Of course, the republican party trashed him so much in the past 5 years that's probably not a possibility. |
| 20:50.40 | dataw0lf|w | I don't much like Democrats either. |
| 20:50.51 | dataw0lf|w | Well, I just hate republicans. |
| 20:50.52 | mheath | "When it costs nearly $50 for an American worker to fill his gas tank, it's time for relief." |
| 20:50.58 | dataw0lf|w | But I reserve a special place in my heart for Bush. |
| 20:51.04 | mheath | Yes. Because, unlike the rest of the world, are gas prices are SO high. |
| 20:51.12 | sjansen | heh |
| 20:51.37 | levi | Said American worker needs a smaller vehicle. |
| 20:51.42 | sjansen | Although that's mostly because they're trying to fund socialism with gas taxes. |
| 20:51.48 | mheath | (They're talking about some policies to make the US self-seficient as far as oil) |
| 20:52.04 | dataw0lf|w | YAY! Let's dig into our national parks! WHOOPEE! |
| 20:52.07 | dataw0lf|w | gimme a break. |
| 20:52.22 | dataw0lf|w | Let's just bomb the real threats this time. Saudi and Iran. |
| 20:52.30 | Uncle_Jesse | YAY! Let's dig into someone else's national parks! WHOOPEE! |
| 20:52.35 | dataw0lf|w | Exactly. |
| 20:52.40 | mheath | It's your standard bill. Makes it look like some nice, good intentioned thing.... |
| 20:52.51 | mheath | Then it does that horribly, and also sticks in a ton of extra unrelated crap |
| 20:52.56 | Uncle_Jesse | what's the difference if you're worried about the environment? |
| 20:53.05 | dataw0lf|w | I'm not worried about the environment. |
| 20:53.09 | dataw0lf|w | The environment is gone. |
| 20:53.12 | Jayce^ | mheath, they are called 'riders' |
| 20:53.14 | dataw0lf|w | I'm talking about care for the United States. |
| 20:53.20 | dataw0lf|w | I couldn't care less about another country. |
| 20:53.30 | dataw0lf|w | I didn't oppose the Iraqi war because I like Iraqis. |
| 20:53.42 | Uncle_Jesse | why are you worried about our national parks then - how does that help the US if it doesn't help the environment? |
| 20:53.44 | dataw0lf|w | I opposed the Iraqi war because Saddam had a cinch hold on religion there and we can't do it any better. |
| 20:53.52 | dataw0lf|w | And now we have a hornets nest, and americans are dying. |
| 20:54.13 | dataw0lf|w | Uncle_Jesse: National parks were established for a reason. It's a 'patriotic' thing. |
| 20:54.24 | Uncle_Jesse | dataw0lf|w: um, yeah, that's the reason |
| 20:54.26 | dataw0lf|w | I don't want to see my homeland 100% concrete. |
| 20:54.28 | dataw0lf|w | No thanks. |
| 20:54.39 | Uncle_Jesse | dataw0lf|w: so, environment is the reason |
| 20:54.52 | dataw0lf|w | no, it's more of a respect for my country. |
| 20:54.53 | mheath | No. |
| 20:54.56 | dataw0lf|w | have you been listening? |
| 20:54.59 | Uncle_Jesse | respect how? |
| 20:54.59 | dataw0lf|w | I love my country. |
| 20:55.05 | dataw0lf|w | And I love the scenery. |
| 20:55.09 | Uncle_Jesse | respect for the environment? |
| 20:55.16 | Uncle_Jesse | scenery = environment |
| 20:55.18 | mheath | When you gate off some little area, destroy everything around it, and build giant cities around it....how is that little gated off area protecting hte environment? |
| 20:55.38 | dataw0lf|w | Uncle_Jesse: What, you're taking the dictionary term of environment? |
| 20:55.46 | mheath | It's not protecting the environment. It's some little portion of the environment we haven't screwed up quite so badly because we like to look at it. |
| 20:55.49 | dataw0lf|w | I couldn't care less about: aerosol, exhaust, blah, blah, blah. |
| 20:55.58 | Uncle_Jesse | dataw0lf|w: what other term is there? |
| 20:56.00 | dataw0lf|w | I'm speaking of the 'political' definition of environment. |
| 20:56.13 | dataw0lf|w | ala greenpeace. |
| 20:56.23 | Uncle_Jesse | mheath: so we'll go screw up other areas of the world we also like to look at? |
| 20:56.37 | mheath | Huh? |
| 20:56.37 | sjansen | Uncle_Jesse: You like to look at deserts? |
| 20:56.37 | dataw0lf|w | Uncle_Jesse: ever been to Iraq? Iran? Saudi? |
| 20:56.45 | dataw0lf|w | there's nothing to see. |
| 20:56.51 | mheath | Uncle_Jesse, how did I say or even imply that? |
| 20:56.52 | dataw0lf|w | I assure you. |
| 20:57.01 | Uncle_Jesse | dataw0lf|w: my uncle was a contractor in Iraq - helped build the Baghdad govt |
| 20:57.10 | dataw0lf|w | did I ask about your uncle? |
| 20:57.13 | dataw0lf|w | who cares? |
| 20:57.16 | dataw0lf|w | I'm asking you. |
| 20:57.20 | sjansen | You seen one sand dune, you pretty much seen 'em all. |
| 20:57.30 | Uncle_Jesse | I'm just saying I have 2nd-hand experience at least. There's lots to protect around there |
| 20:57.41 | mheath | ...... |
| 20:57.43 | dataw0lf|w | Well, I've been there, 1st hand. |
| 20:57.45 | Uncle_Jesse | my point is you're going to destroy the land no matter where you dig |
| 20:57.49 | mheath | "2nd-hand experience". |
| 20:57.50 | mheath | Heh. |
| 20:57.56 | dataw0lf|w | it's the old cop out. |
| 20:58.10 | levi | Uncle_Jesse: Unless you're destroying an ocean ecosystem instead. |
| 20:58.11 | Uncle_Jesse | Alaska doesn't have much either |
| 20:58.19 | dataw0lf|w | my mom's sister's husband's niece's cat was near the WTC when it got destroyed. |
| 20:58.28 | dataw0lf|w | I've been to Alaska. |
| 20:58.30 | dataw0lf|w | It certainly has alot. |
| 20:58.39 | Uncle_Jesse | There's deserts in Utah |
| 20:58.51 | mheath | Do you care about those deserts? |
| 20:59.13 | mheath | Would you care if, next time you drove through southern utah, you saw huge housing devleopments rather than open, flat deserts? |
| 20:59.19 | Uncle_Jesse | I care about the environment all over - my point is you're going to destroy something no matter where you dig |
| 20:59.25 | dataw0lf|w | the point being, why waste our energy and personal national resources when we already have taken the step to a foothold in the middle east? |
| 20:59.35 | Uncle_Jesse | There are plenty of places in the US no one visits frequently that have oil |
| 20:59.37 | dataw0lf|w | let's just put those aside for right now. |
| 20:59.48 | dataw0lf|w | and kill ourselves some Iranians. |
| 20:59.53 | Uncle_Jesse | lol |
| 21:00.12 | mheath | How about we do neither, and get a decent amount of troops back in South Korea? |
| 21:00.34 | dataw0lf|w | it doesn't matter how many troops we have in South Korea. |
| 21:00.44 | dataw0lf|w | we have the same amount of Patriot missiles, is what matters. |
| 21:00.57 | dataw0lf|w | and they can still all be taken out with the massive amount of SCUDs located in NK. |
| 21:01.13 | dataw0lf|w | so troop count in SK isn't vital. |
| 21:01.21 | dataw0lf|w | Now that we're in Iraq, we're screwed. |
| 21:01.24 | dataw0lf|w | We have to stay there. |
| 21:01.37 | dataw0lf|w | We shouldn't have gone in in the first place... but that's history, now. |
| 21:01.47 | mheath | I just find it funny that during the time when North Korea is most dangerous, President Bush has been relocating many of the troops that are near enough to quickly respond to any crisis. |
| 21:02.05 | dataw0lf|w | any attack perpetrated by NK will be a massive SCUD basket emptying. |
| 21:02.14 | dataw0lf|w | And we are not prepared for that no matter how many troops we have over there. |
| 21:02.25 | dataw0lf|w | Trust me. |
| 21:02.35 | mheath | I have a question, something I've never been clear on. Does NK have ICBMs? |
| 21:02.47 | dataw0lf|w | supposedly. |
| 21:02.51 | dataw0lf|w | I doubt it though. |
| 21:03.14 | mheath | So, supposedly (I'm assuming that you're "supposedly" means "They say they do), they could nuke *us*? |
| 21:03.28 | dataw0lf|w | ICBM isn't necessarily a nuke. |
| 21:03.39 | dataw0lf|w | the CIA says they have ICBMs. |
| 21:03.50 | dataw0lf|w | Taepodong II or whatever it's called. |
| 21:04.01 | dataw0lf|w | but I think that's smoke up our collective... *ahem* |
| 21:04.25 | mheath | Well, it can have any payload, I know. But why would a 3rd world country with limited resources waste the most expensive, advanced type of missile they have by sending explosives over here? |
| 21:04.31 | Jayce^ | not a true iCbm, supposedly more with a japan distance |
| 21:04.55 | Jayce^ | mheath, because the leader is a psycho, and hates us with a passion |
| 21:05.14 | mheath | If he hates us with a passion he'd said a nuclear weapon |
| 21:05.34 | dataw0lf|w | he says he has em, and he says he doesn't. |
| 21:05.39 | dataw0lf|w | don't worry about ICBMs |
| 21:05.52 | dataw0lf|w | it's the Soviet and Chinese SCUDs they have that need to be worried about. |
| 21:05.53 | Uncle_Jesse | I think he'd rather hit Japan than us |
| 21:05.57 | Jayce^ | they'll be sending more ordinance at SK and japan |
| 21:05.57 | dataw0lf|w | Because we're pulling out of Germany. |
| 21:06.08 | dataw0lf|w | yeah, SK will get the most of it. |
| 21:06.11 | Uncle_Jesse | Jayce^: agreed |
| 21:06.22 | Uncle_Jesse | China hates Japan |
| 21:06.40 | dataw0lf|w | Japan... if they keep on going with this militarization thing they're on, SK might waste some missiles. But they'll probably assume China will take care of them |
| 21:06.42 | mheath | My biggest concern, actually: With the Iraq conflict and how stretched our troops our, any move by NK would most likely cause a draft. |
| 21:06.45 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, at least we're switching the armored units with strykers... don't exactly need heavy armor in there anymore |
| 21:07.03 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: Yeah, I was down there for some field exercises, it's really chewed up, they need better organization. |
| 21:07.19 | dataw0lf|w | and we don't even have any Pac-3 units down there, just Pac-2. |
| 21:07.25 | Jayce^ | that's part of the move, thankfully, we should have done it mid-90's |
| 21:07.37 | dataw0lf|w | yeah. |
| 21:07.46 | dataw0lf|w | supposedly we're supposed to be out of Germany in 08 or so. |
| 21:07.52 | dataw0lf|w | I doubt it for some reason. |
| 21:08.00 | Jayce^ | my concern is the chineese sub fleet that's growing exponentially |
| 21:08.06 | Jayce^ | new d/e's |
| 21:08.08 | dataw0lf|w | but I know my old unit is moving to Grafenwoehr, a preliminary setup to leave. |
| 21:08.19 | dataw0lf|w | we need to approach the Chinese very, very diplomatically. |
| 21:08.23 | Jayce^ | oh yeah |
| 21:08.34 | dataw0lf|w | Bush needs to get that straight in his head right now. |
| 21:08.37 | Jayce^ | problem is, they are using it hard... getting everything they want, and still going on |
| 21:08.59 | dataw0lf|w | Yeah, they are pushing the limits. |
| 21:09.03 | Jayce^ | last 15 years they've been going headlong into it |
| 21:09.09 | dataw0lf|w | and their limits are being pushed by Japanese militarization. |
| 21:09.14 | dataw0lf|w | which I understand. |
| 21:09.16 | mheath | I'm wondering if the Chinese are working with the NK behind our back...... |
| 21:09.20 | dataw0lf|w | I really, really can't stand the japanese, btw. |
| 21:09.25 | mheath | They were supposed to be talking to NK for us, since they won't talk to us |
| 21:09.28 | dataw0lf|w | eine moment, server problem |
| 21:09.34 | Jayce^ | I think the smart japanese are getting scared... |
| 21:09.54 | mheath | They've come out of the talks with no progression on the issues we wanted them to discuss, but with some changes in trade policy that favor NK. |
| 21:10.05 | Jayce^ | mheath, the chinese are getting ticked off at NK, they've been saving them for years, now NK is doing stuff that really pisses them off |
| 21:10.30 | Jayce^ | our big stalemate with them was it was always us vs China via the korea's, now china is partially in support of us |
| 21:10.39 | Jayce^ | problem is, with their leader, that kinda makes things worse |
| 21:11.00 | Jayce^ | mheath, that's just it, NK really only makes talks to get what they want, they won't give in for anything |
| 21:11.46 | sjansen | XML is riddled with security holes? |
| 21:12.03 | mheath | Eh? |
| 21:12.21 | Jayce^ | sjansen, yeah, that text can overflow :) |
| 21:12.26 | sjansen | Somebody just told a co-worker that. |
| 21:12.42 | Jayce^ | heh |
| 21:12.48 | hans | you gotta watch those angle brckets too. they're sharp |
| 21:12.54 | sjansen | My parser is stuck in an infinite loop trying to aside semantic meaning to the statement. |
| 21:13.17 | sjansen | heh, semantic meaning |
| 21:13.32 | sjansen | kinda like duplicated replication |
| 21:14.11 | sjansen | Whew. I think that broke the loop. Or at least niced it. |
| 21:17.55 | RyanE | Any MythTV users have a problem with showing no listings for tomorrow (and ONLY tomorrow)? |
| 21:19.55 | RyanE | weirdest thing. Listing data for today... fine. Listing data for Friday and forward, fine... Listing data for tomorrow... "NO DATA" |
| 21:19.56 | dataw0lf|w | XML? security? eh? |
| 21:20.11 | RyanE | probably an XML security hole... :) |
| 21:20.23 | sjansen | heh |
| 21:32.35 | spr | RyanE, let me check |
| 21:33.56 | spr | holy crap! |
| 21:34.00 | spr | I'm missing it too |
| 21:34.12 | RyanE | wife won't be happy if ER doesn't record tomorrow... |
| 21:34.34 | RyanE | I may have to setup a manual record... I looked on the forums when I discovered it last night, and didn't see anything. |
| 21:35.45 | spr | RyanE, have you run mythfilldatabase yet? |
| 21:35.52 | RyanE | runs daily |
| 21:35.58 | RyanE | and I ran it again last night to see if it'd fill. |
| 21:35.58 | RyanE | no go |
| 21:36.44 | spr | I just ran it, and got data |
| 21:37.02 | RyanE | mine *said* it got data for tomorrow, but didn't fill anything. |
| 21:37.05 | RyanE | maybe I'll try again |
| 21:37.32 | RyanE | did you run any special switches on mythfilldatabase? |
| 21:38.50 | spr | nope |
| 21:42.21 | RyanE | well, nice to see it filled it, but now I'm curious why the big 24 hour hole. |
| 21:42.44 | RyanE | thanks spr |
| 21:43.41 | spr | no problem |
| 21:49.55 | spr | cool, a google search history feature |
| 22:05.56 | *** part/#utah RyanE (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:20.35 | sjansen | I'm blanking a word. It means a test suite you run to make sure no bugs have been introduced. |
| 22:20.49 | sjansen | The perl code base has a good one of these. |
| 22:21.20 | Jayce^ | regression |
| 22:21.25 | sjansen | bingo! |
| 22:21.56 | sjansen | ~thank Jayce^ |
| 22:21.56 | ibot | bitte, sjansen |
| 22:22.12 | sjansen | not me, you silly bot |
| 22:22.31 | sjansen | ~give Jayce^ a botsnack |
| 22:22.31 | ibot | aw, gee, sjansen |
| 22:41.08 | *** join/#utah tifozi (~tifozi@ip-69-33-192-245.iad.megapath.net) |
| 22:48.42 | tifozi | fozz check ur pm |
| 22:50.47 | vontrapp | can the pchdtv card be used to tune stations on coaxial input as well as airwaves? |
| 22:53.03 | sjansen | bbeattie'd probably be able to answer that |
| 23:07.35 | jsmith | bbeattie: I want to know too :-) |
| 23:39.05 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (~aint@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |