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| 02:03.05 | tensai | neybar: I made your rosemary bread (albiet sans rosemary) tonight with a biga start. tasted great. |
| 02:07.51 | LeviHome | Man, what good is rosemary bread without the rosemary? ;) |
| 02:09.26 | brailsmt | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:44.09 | Maquis | rosemary bread |
| 02:44.10 | Maquis | mmmm |
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| 02:56.58 | tensai | LeviHome: it keeps my marriage intact |
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| 04:06.41 | LeviHome | tensai: Well, I guess that's a good thing. |
| 04:06.51 | LeviHome | tensai: Did you know about the rosemary thing beforehand? ;) |
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| 04:50.46 | findlay | hi #utah people |
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| 04:57.41 | LeviHome | Hi, findlay. |
| 04:57.48 | LeviHome | findlay: So, you went to UVSC? |
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| 06:27.54 | tensai | LeviHome: no. can't say I really even knew what rosemary was. soon after I discovered it I learned of her dislike. |
| 06:28.19 | tensai | normally it's not such a big deal, but the pregnancy makes her hypersensitive to smells |
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| 06:50.44 | LeviHome | Ahh, that darn pregnancy stuff. :) |
| 06:56.16 | bonez39 | oh, yeah...that afflicted my mom..and wife too...both experienced hypersensitivity to various smells after 2nd or third pregnancy.. |
| 06:57.37 | LeviHome | I'm working on my Lisp blog server. |
| 06:59.20 | LeviHome | Sort of working on it, at least. |
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| 13:32.12 | Uncle_Jesse | Mark Dominus needs to put HOP on Safari |
| 13:34.21 | dataw0lf|w | why X wouldn't work if it couldn't get an outside internet connection is beyond me. |
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| 13:44.12 | vontrapp | dataw0lf|w: never heard of that before, but you might try putting your hostname in the hosts file |
| 13:45.46 | dataw0lf|w | heh. |
| 13:45.49 | dataw0lf|w | that's not the problem. |
| 13:46.01 | dataw0lf|w | it's a Tru64 machine, it has something to do with the actual libs. |
| 13:54.35 | Uncle_Jesse | Speaking of Macromedia (last week) and Adobe (from PLUG): http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=679758 |
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| 14:15.12 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: The Jedi Council has issued you a pink lightsaber |
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| 15:24.16 | Uncle_Jesse | It's quiet this morning |
| 15:24.40 | dataw0lf|w | shhh |
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| 15:29.42 | Uncle_Jesse | echo |
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| 15:35.30 | Uncle_Jesse | ~echo |
| 15:35.32 | ibot | [echo] Displays the given arguments on the screen. Syntax: echo (arg1) (arg2) ..(argN). Where arg1 through argN are the arguments to echo. Example: echo "Hello World" displays the string "Hello World". "Why echo occurs" at http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2005-February/088794.html |
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| 15:37.32 | vontrapp | let's see if it makes it through the whole day |
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| 15:37.41 | sjansen | http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/seuss.html |
| 15:38.05 | vontrapp | mmmm, paganini |
| 15:39.46 | spr | imms? |
| 15:40.06 | vontrapp | ~imms |
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| 15:41.18 | Maquis | ~lart ECS |
| 15:41.22 | vontrapp | ~imms is IMMS is an adaptive playlist framework that tracks your listening patterns and dynamically adapts to your taste. |
| 15:41.23 | ibot | I think you lost me on that one, vontrapp |
| 15:41.38 | vontrapp | ~imms is "IMMS is an adaptive playlist framework that tracks your listening patterns and dynamically adapts to your taste." |
| 15:41.39 | ibot | okay, vontrapp |
| 15:41.55 | sjansen | ~imms |
| 15:41.57 | ibot | i heard imms is "IMMS is an adaptive playlist framework that tracks your listening patterns and dynamically adapts to your taste." |
| 15:42.01 | vontrapp | ~IMMS is "an adaptive playlist framework that tracks your listening patterns and dynamically adapts to your taste." |
| 15:42.02 | ibot | ...but imms is already something else... |
| 15:42.08 | vontrapp | ~no IMMS is "an adaptive playlist framework that tracks your listening patterns and dynamically adapts to your taste." |
| 15:42.09 | ibot | vontrapp: okay |
| 15:42.51 | Maquis | ~imms |
| 15:42.52 | ibot | it has been said that imms is "an adaptive playlist framework that tracks your listening patterns and dynamically adapts to your taste." |
| 15:43.14 | vontrapp | ~lart Maquis |
| 15:43.21 | vontrapp | ~no IMMS is an adaptive playlist framework that tracks your listening patterns and dynamically adapts to your taste. |
| 15:43.22 | ibot | vontrapp: okay |
| 15:43.27 | Maquis | ~flog vontrapp |
| 15:43.29 | ibot | ACTION hog-ties vontrapp and starts the heavy punishment with a cat-o-nine-tails. |
| 15:43.29 | Uncle_Jesse | Where's hans today? |
| 15:43.32 | Uncle_Jesse | I want to play his game |
| 15:43.44 | Maquis | game? |
| 15:43.47 | Maquis | what game/ |
| 15:43.59 | Uncle_Jesse | hans's game - here's the clue: |
| 15:44.07 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: The Jedi Council has issued you a pink lightsaber |
| 15:44.24 | Maquis | oh... that's easy |
| 15:44.31 | Uncle_Jesse | it should be |
| 15:45.32 | Maquis | "now that i'm married, i'm going back to my old hairdo" |
| 15:46.44 | vontrapp | hans was here a while ago |
| 15:47.10 | levi | Yo. |
| 15:47.17 | Maquis | sup? |
| 15:47.44 | levi | Not a lot. Another week at work... more C coding to do. |
| 15:48.11 | sjansen | I see drop tile, flourescent lighting, fire sprinkler's, and a projector. |
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| 15:48.11 | sjansen | And an air vent. |
| 15:48.23 | vontrapp | oh, the monkey must of come from the vent |
| 15:49.04 | hans | today is day one of allergies |
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| 15:49.17 | vontrapp | ~lart allergies |
| 15:49.43 | flyboy^ | Allergies are lame. |
| 15:50.07 | levi | Grr. Maybe I don't get to do C coding just yet. I've got to get a kernel and filesystem running for our embedded hardware so we can do testing. |
| 15:50.35 | sjansen | hans is lame |
| 15:50.46 | Uncle_Jesse | ~praise Maquis |
| 15:50.49 | ibot | All hail Maquis! |
| 15:51.09 | Uncle_Jesse | You're not a geek unless you read that one :-) |
| 15:51.53 | Maquis | levi: that sounds fun |
| 15:52.44 | levi | Maquis: I'd rather be doing the C coding. |
| 15:52.54 | Maquis | levi: true... but it all sounds fun |
| 15:53.01 | Maquis | and just remember that you get paid for all this :) |
| 15:53.19 | levi | Maquis: I need to do a rather large context switch to get the kernel and filesystem working, and then I'll have to switch back later. |
| 15:53.27 | Maquis | levi: ah... |
| 15:54.00 | levi | Uncle_Jesse: Ew, perl. At least it's not C or C++, though. |
| 15:54.33 | Uncle_Jesse | levi: or Java would be the school's other option |
| 15:54.54 | Maquis | Uncle_Jesse: what senior project? |
| 15:55.04 | Uncle_Jesse | I'm tempted to learn lisp after reading the review for Higher Order of Perl |
| 15:55.16 | levi | Uncle_Jesse: You should learn lisp. |
| 15:55.38 | levi | Uncle_Jesse: Check out http://gigamonkeys.com/book |
| 15:55.40 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@sorenson.dsl.csolutions.net) |
| 15:55.44 | Uncle_Jesse | Maquis: My final class for school lets us pick any business-related project and write it in any language and db we choose |
| 15:56.04 | Maquis | Uncle_Jesse: very nice1 |
| 15:56.39 | levi | What's 'business-related' mean, in this context? |
| 15:57.32 | Uncle_Jesse | levi: meaning if you can translate the project to a business application you can use it as your project |
| 15:58.06 | levi | So, an application to help you run a business? |
| 15:58.08 | Uncle_Jesse | I'm writing an admin interface for my Family Management System and calling it an "Employee communications and collaboration suite" |
| 15:58.17 | Uncle_Jesse | levi: correct |
| 15:58.19 | levi | So you could to a task tracker, or something. |
| 15:58.24 | Uncle_Jesse | levi: yeah |
| 15:59.52 | levi | I'm currently writing a blog server in lisp. It's going pretty slow, as I'm still learning the language, but I'm getting a lot done in a little bit of code. |
| 16:00.22 | hans | well this is funny |
| 16:00.54 | Uncle_Jesse | my app will include a blog app - I'll be writing a web interface for Bryar.pm as part of the project |
| 16:01.31 | hans | so this guy emails support today saying he's been getting an email from "word" frequently for the past year, he thinks it's bad and has never opened it. I guess he's sick of it, so he emails us asking if we can block it, or figure out who it's from so he can ask them to stop. |
| 16:01.38 | levi | So far, I've got the blog entry classes defined and means of storing them in memory. I haven't got a persistance layer in yet, but I have hooks for it. And I have parts of the html generation done, too. |
| 16:02.07 | hans | so I have him forward a sample. It's word@m-w.com which is a Merriam Webster's Word of the Day mailing list. |
| 16:02.20 | hans | which he probably signed up for over a year ago |
| 16:02.52 | vontrapp | aah, 18th variation |
| 16:03.32 | levi | Heh. |
| 16:03.55 | Maquis | haha |
| 16:04.01 | hans | but I have to give him credit. if you're going to be dumb better to err on the safe side |
| 16:04.11 | Maquis | very true |
| 16:04.19 | Maquis | better than some of my friends |
| 16:04.26 | levi | Indeed. |
| 16:04.33 | Maquis | "ummm... this zip file i got in my email won't open" |
| 16:04.38 | levi | If only all dumb people were so wise. :) |
| 16:05.02 | Maquis | me: "ummm... what did i tell you the last 10 times you came to me with this problem?" |
| 16:05.21 | Maquis | them: "well, you said it was a virus those times..." |
| 16:05.39 | Maquis | me: "so, why are you trying to open another zip file that you got in your email?" |
| 16:05.56 | Maquis | them: "ummm... because it came to me in an email..." |
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| 16:17.20 | Uncle_Jesse | Ok - the music for this is a little weird |
| 16:36.04 | Maquis | closer to 4 times... |
| 16:37.59 | hans | what do you think of git? |
| 16:38.33 | hans | Maquis: it shouldn't, not once it has trained on those songs |
| 16:38.47 | ECS | ~lart Maquis |
| 16:38.48 | hans | but at first, it will do a spectral analysis on each song it hasn't seen before |
| 16:39.08 | Maquis | hans: that's not very nice of it, though |
| 16:39.15 | hans | so, unless your computer takes the duration of the song to do a spectral analysis, you'll see a peak of usage right after the song starts that ends shortly thereafter |
| 16:39.50 | hans | Maquis: you can force it to learn everything in one fell swoop if you want. really, I don't see the complaint coming from a gentoo user - by definition you enjoy utilizing the cpu |
| 16:40.10 | levi | Silly gentoo users. ;) |
| 16:40.24 | Maquis | well, i use my cpu a lot... which means that i like to have it available to be used by things besides my music player |
| 16:40.36 | hans | so start xmms niced |
| 16:40.42 | sjansen | ~lart programs that don't support unicode private use characters |
| 16:40.59 | hans | sjansen: and what is a private use character? enlighten us |
| 16:41.13 | Maquis | ~lart sjansen |
| 16:41.31 | sjansen | Two chunks of the Unicode space have been reserved for private use. Anything that doesn't have an official position can be put there. |
| 16:41.37 | vontrapp | Maquis: the analyses process is already niced |
| 16:42.27 | sjansen | I created a keycaps font Saturday, and the correct place to put things like "insert key" is the private use section, but it's kinda pointless if you can't use the glyph. |
| 16:42.36 | hans | oh yeah, that too. Anyway, if you don't think the benefits are worth a little extra niced cpu usage, that's up to you. |
| 16:43.06 | vontrapp | and yes, if it takes as long for your cpu to analyze the song as it takes to play the song, you'll see a constant usage, that is, until you start playing songs that have already been analized |
| 16:43.36 | Maquis | sjansen: what are you doing using OOo? |
| 16:43.39 | hans | one thing that I will agree is annoying, is that on some songs the analyzer will get stuck |
| 16:43.47 | hans | pkill sox if that happens. |
| 16:43.53 | Maquis | mmmk |
| 16:43.57 | sjansen | Maquis: see my comments about Unicode |
| 16:44.14 | hans | pretty small percentage of my music, but it has happened. |
| 16:44.21 | Maquis | sjansen: yes... i saw your comments regarding unicode... but i still despise OOo |
| 16:45.20 | hans | wonder what kind of religion they're finalizing. emacs vs vi? |
| 16:46.48 | vontrapp | hans: how do you tell if the analyzer got stuck? |
| 16:47.03 | vontrapp | cpu usage doesn't fall off? |
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| 16:47.20 | hans | right, just hang out |
| 16:47.24 | levi | hans: That one will never be finalized. :) |
| 16:47.35 | hans | on my box almost all songs are analyzed in < 5 seconds |
| 16:47.50 | hans | not to mention I've trained it on everything so imms never is using the cpu |
| 16:47.59 | hans | except on those songs that failed to analyze |
| 16:48.10 | hans | vontrapp: gremlins. |
| 16:48.20 | hans | it's just software written by a mortal, with not enough time |
| 16:48.33 | hans | but if you want to become a contributor he'll work with you, eh? |
| 16:48.36 | vontrapp | yeah, but you don't have problems |
| 16:48.56 | hans | oh, well in your case I'm blaming the hardware. |
| 16:49.16 | hans | frankly, it sounds like a loser laptop with a winning screen. |
| 16:49.35 | vontrapp | i'm using beep-media-player now, and so far it's working with alsa output |
| 16:49.46 | vontrapp | hasn't hung on the device yet |
| 16:49.54 | vontrapp | but i have lost the db once already |
| 16:50.00 | vontrapp | had to restart immsd |
| 16:50.09 | hans | good, good. maybe we can blame oss and xmms then. both scapegoats that won't be the least bit surprised at being blamed for something. |
| 16:50.15 | vontrapp | (my log tail was showing nothing at all) |
| 16:50.28 | hans | hmm |
| 16:51.16 | vontrapp | gah, bmp is now in a hard hang |
| 16:52.58 | vontrapp | must be a library issue |
| 16:53.08 | vontrapp | both bmp and xmms both refuse to run now |
| 16:55.04 | hans | vontrapp: I feel your pain. not your lot, it seems, so I recommend hacking imms to leave the soundcard alone |
| 16:55.14 | hans | and hope that xmms will behave itself after that. |
| 16:55.31 | hans | who knows, imms might even have a configure option for that |
| 16:56.13 | hans | if you're really ambitious, take it to the lad list and see if they can help you debug the problem, then send a patch to the imms author. |
| 16:58.04 | vontrapp | alsa sound still works |
| 16:58.33 | vontrapp | so it's not that alsa or the sound card went screwy |
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| 17:01.35 | levi | Hi, findlay. |
| 17:02.33 | findlay | hi |
| 17:02.46 | levi | findlay: So, you used to go to UVSC? |
| 17:02.55 | findlay | yes |
| 17:03.05 | levi | findlay: What did you think of the classes there, in general? |
| 17:04.16 | findlay | the class instructors I had were in general very good, and the subject matter was about the same as you would expect from any other college |
| 17:05.57 | findlay | the CS department is mainly a MS shop, though |
| 17:06.03 | levi | How about the workload of the classes? I took some community college classes, and they were far less work than my BYU classes. I imagine UVSC is somewhere inbetween? |
| 17:06.14 | Uncle_Jesse | I went there for a couple semesters - I was very unimpressed by a database class I took |
| 17:06.47 | Uncle_Jesse | The instructors changed half-way through and the second one felt bad for us and basically gave us a free A |
| 17:07.07 | levi | I mainly want to get a piece of paper out of the experience, but it would be nice if I learned something too. |
| 17:07.34 | Uncle_Jesse | levi: you might like University of Phoenix if you are a full-time worker |
| 17:08.14 | Uncle_Jesse | Jayce^ can probably let you know more of his experience there |
| 17:08.29 | Uncle_Jesse | I'm going to Strayer University, but they don't have any campuses out there |
| 17:09.02 | findlay | well, in a few years UVSC is projected to become the largest university in the state (yes, complete with graduate programs) and I guess you could say that the borgeois environment would passively encourage such a state, being between a community college and a well established university |
| 17:09.42 | levi | findlay: That sounds perfect for me. BYU seemed full of unnecessary work just to make things hard, while the community college seemed too easy to offer any challenge. |
| 17:10.19 | findlay | rituals from the establishment comfortable in their position and what they feel they can expect from the students |
| 17:11.15 | levi | That sentence doesn't parse. |
| 17:11.18 | findlay | I think it mainly depends on the instructor, the instructor's rigor and insight, but that's just me. I learn best by asking lots of questions |
| 17:11.55 | levi | My concern isn't being able to learn, it's being able to take several classes at once without getting overloaded with busywork I could learn just fine without. |
| 17:12.00 | findlay | I think a university can become too encumbered in polits and red tape |
| 17:12.27 | Uncle_Jesse | levi: that's why I like the Strayer/U of Phoenix mentality |
| 17:12.43 | findlay | OK, well none of the classes I took ever assigned any busywork |
| 17:12.45 | levi | Uncle_Jesse: Is there a decent U of Phoenix CS degree? |
| 17:12.56 | findlay | never, rather |
| 17:13.08 | levi | Uncle_Jesse: I don't remember seeing one when I was looking for a school. |
| 17:13.16 | Uncle_Jesse | levi: I'm not quite sure, but I think there might be based on what my cousin was telling me. Strayer's CIS degree is decent, but not CS |
| 17:13.27 | findlay | and accredited at that |
| 17:13.28 | levi | I don't want a CIS degree. |
| 17:13.41 | Uncle_Jesse | levi: yeah - they are quite different |
| 17:13.48 | levi | Every CIS degree curriculum I've seen has been full of garbage. |
| 17:14.16 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:14.22 | levi | UVSC's claims to follow the ACM's recommendations, at least. |
| 17:14.57 | Uncle_Jesse | levi: it's targeted more at business information, rather than pure science |
| 17:14.57 | findlay | I've heard their Linux classes are often taught by professors who know less about Linux than manu students in the class |
| 17:15.37 | levi | findlay: Well, I don't plan on actually taking any linux classes. The advisor I talked to said I could test out of classes. |
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| 17:16.07 | sjansen | Ha! |
| 17:16.16 | Uncle_Jesse | U of phoenix's website is terrible! |
| 17:16.37 | sjansen | So our SUSE 9.3 CD's came with an add for Linux magazine. On the cover of the magazine: Ubuntu. |
| 17:16.40 | levi | U of Phoenix also seems rather expensive for what it is. |
| 17:17.16 | Uncle_Jesse | Nope - no CS degree at U of Phoenix |
| 17:17.39 | Uncle_Jesse | levi: it's worth it if you need to work full-time and support a family while going full-time to school |
| 17:18.05 | Uncle_Jesse | At least at Strayer my professors all understand we work full-time during the day and will work with you because of that |
| 17:18.23 | Uncle_Jesse | I can also apply work-experience to classes I am already familiar with |
| 17:18.33 | Uncle_Jesse | and challenge courses |
| 17:19.54 | Uncle_Jesse | I'm pretty sure U of Phoenix is pretty similar |
| 17:20.09 | levi | I'll look into that if UVSC doesn't work out. |
| 17:20.24 | levi | But, at the moment, UVSC looks far more attractive to me. |
| 17:20.37 | vontrapp | how much is uvsc? |
| 17:22.54 | levi | http://uvsc.edu/tuition/tuition04.html |
| 17:22.58 | Uncle_Jesse | It's fairly inexpensive IIRC |
| 17:23.19 | Uncle_Jesse | Is UVSC accredited yet as a university? |
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| 17:30.22 | levi | Uncle_Jesse: What do you mean by that? They're accredited to offer 4-year degrees. |
| 17:31.30 | vontrapp | gadzooks, non-resident is expensive |
| 17:31.38 | vontrapp | good thing i'm a resident :) |
| 17:32.20 | Uncle_Jesse | levi: Are they just a community college still, or are they a full-blown University? |
| 17:32.35 | Uncle_Jesse | That was the big issue at one point |
| 17:32.45 | sjansen | I managed to survive physics, but I know people who credit transferred UVSC physics credits for they're having graduated. |
| 17:33.30 | hans | unleash the grammar nazi! |
| 17:33.46 | findlay | Uncle_Jesse: they have over 50 undergraduate degrees, but no graduate degrees yet |
| 17:34.00 | sjansen | hans: For me? They've gotten tired of beating me. |
| 17:34.28 | Uncle_Jesse | findlay: is that the credential for University vs Community College? |
| 17:35.52 | findlay | Uncle_Jesse: I think the difference between a university and a college is somewhat like that |
| 17:37.35 | hans | grep and egrep don't like \d? |
| 17:37.41 | hans | what am I supposed to do? |
| 17:38.04 | Uncle_Jesse | I thought UVSC was going to become a medical college or something like that |
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| 17:41.06 | findlay | they have a very competitive nursing program, and I remember something about them having a good dental program |
| 17:41.43 | Uncle_Jesse | I thought they were going to turn it into a College of Natural medicine at one point |
| 17:41.50 | findlay | (: |
| 17:41.53 | Uncle_Jesse | ie Homeopathic medicine,e tc |
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| 17:49.22 | hans | has he also been talking in the 3rd person forever? |
| 17:51.20 | vontrapp | great, so apparently things are still running, i just noticed an analyze spike in cpuage |
| 17:51.45 | vontrapp | but logs report nothing, as well as speakers |
| 18:01.10 | vontrapp | lyric suite? |
| 18:02.36 | findlay | Lyric Suite Op. 54 orchestrated from the original piano pieces by Edvard GRieg (No. 1), Anton Seidl (No. 2), and Seidl/Grieg (Nos. 3-5) |
| 18:03.18 | vontrapp | Seidl! Seidl! Have I got a match for you!! |
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| 18:05.06 | Uncle_Jesse | mazeltaf! |
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| 19:22.11 | sjansen | Arrived today. Haven't had a chance to install it yet, though. |
| 19:22.41 | scott | cool, haven't used suse since 5 something I think |
| 19:25.24 | levi | Anyone tried out Gnome-launch-box? |
| 19:26.05 | hans | a lunch box for gnome? |
| 19:26.17 | levi | No, it's like Quicksilver for Gnome. |
| 19:26.24 | levi | hans: Do you have Quicksilver on your Mac yet? |
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| 19:26.46 | hans | yeah, although I'm not sure it's all that yet |
| 19:26.57 | hans | but it is nifty |
| 19:27.11 | levi | Well, I'd use it a lot more if I had a laptop with it. |
| 19:27.18 | levi | I hate trackpads. |
| 19:27.28 | jsmith | levi: Amen! |
| 19:27.56 | hans | it's on my list of things to see why I need them more than fresh-baked cookies |
| 19:27.59 | jsmith | sjansen: You said that just to disagree with me, didn't you. |
| 19:28.58 | levi | jsmith: Me too, except when they decide to drift. |
| 19:29.40 | levi | jsmith: I love the interface on my Sony Picturebook. If I could have it faster and with a higher-res screen and a battery that worked, I wouldn't be considering replacing it. |
| 19:29.54 | jsmith | levi: Yeah, I had an IBM one that had a serious drift problem. Luckily, they replaced it. |
| 19:30.14 | sjansen | jsmith: Did not. |
| 19:30.41 | jsmith | sjansen: Oh yeah? Prove that I didn't! |
| 19:30.45 | sjansen | ~curse IBM for their icky nib |
| 19:30.47 | ibot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, IBM for their icky nib ! |
| 19:31.17 | Uncle_Jesse | What's the difference between QuickSilver and Google search? |
| 19:32.10 | Jayce^ | the one think I like about most dells, is that they have both |
| 19:34.11 | levi | My Picturebook has the nib and 3 buttons. |
| 19:34.37 | sjansen | emcnabb just asked a good question: "Why does Dell call it tech support? They don't provide support, and they're not very technical." |
| 19:35.04 | tensai | because /technically/ that's all the support you get |
| 19:35.57 | Uncle_Jesse | because it couldn't just be customer support because they don't care about their customers enough to give them americans to talk to |
| 19:38.22 | sjansen | We just RMAed some bad RAM. Five minutes to diagnose, two hours to get Dell to do anything. |
| 19:38.31 | Uncle_Jesse | wouldn't you have to do rm -rf ~/* to remove the contents of your home? I wouldn't think as non-root you would have permission to delete ~ |
| 19:38.40 | sjansen | A significant improvement over six hours last time. |
| 19:39.01 | sjansen | I think emcnabb should be our new Dell contact, he's learning how to work with them. |
| 19:40.20 | sjansen | Uncle_Jesse: You should just get an error for ~ at the end, I'd expect. |
| 19:40.39 | Uncle_Jesse | yeah - that's what I thought |
| 19:40.53 | Uncle_Jesse | that dude is a serious script-kiddie |
| 19:41.08 | mrpull | my experience.... |
| 19:41.10 | Uncle_Jesse | he also copied his sig from another website |
| 19:41.31 | mrpull | HP: Support how may I help you.... ME: I have a dead disk. HP: We'll send a new one... |
| 19:41.53 | mrpull | ME: I have a dead disk DELL SUPPORT: Did you reboot the box? |
| 19:42.06 | hans | mrpull: now, try to get them to send you a wireless card with a chipset that works in linux |
| 19:42.11 | mrpull | ME: You want me to reboot a production server to trouble shoot a hotswap disk? |
| 19:42.18 | sjansen | heh |
| 19:42.30 | mrpull | I refused.... I got them to send me a disk |
| 19:42.33 | mrpull | but what a pain |
| 19:42.38 | mrpull | and dell raid controllers are junk |
| 19:42.50 | mrpull | hpaq is my friend |
| 19:43.13 | mrpull | i had good luck with thinkpad support in the past... esp with linux support |
| 19:43.17 | vontrapp | speaking of which, anyone want a broadcomm^H^H^H^Hcrap internal minipci wireless card? |
| 19:43.46 | hans | vontrapp: what are you using now? do you want to buy my zyxel pcmcia card? |
| 19:43.46 | mrpull | we had a minipci card die and IBM cross shipped one with no questions |
| 19:43.53 | hans | sjansen: selling an excellent card here |
| 19:44.04 | vontrapp | right, you don't need yours anymore... |
| 19:44.16 | tensai | I just got an xseries 3u box. I like it so far. |
| 19:44.34 | vontrapp | i had hp send me a new wireless card with the what's it called chipset, when i got it, it was broadcomm |
| 19:44.42 | dataw0lf|w | Prism? |
| 19:44.43 | vontrapp | so now i have two broadcomm cards |
| 19:44.46 | hans | prism54? |
| 19:44.49 | vontrapp | dataw0lf|w: yeah, that was it |
| 19:45.02 | mrpull | i admined some xseries boxes in the past |
| 19:45.06 | dataw0lf|w | pretty good cards. |
| 19:45.06 | mrpull | they were some of my faves |
| 19:45.07 | hans | heard about that shenanigan that's been going down. pity, that. |
| 19:45.10 | vontrapp | i spent an hour on the phone with them verifying that they were going to send the right thing |
| 19:45.12 | dataw0lf|w | well, chipset I mean. |
| 19:45.14 | vontrapp | hans can attest to that |
| 19:45.38 | hans | dataw0lf|w: these days it's likely you'll get a broadcomm instead of prism54 on the cards that were prism54. no changed version number and all that jazz |
| 19:45.52 | sjansen | vontrapp: I can top that. I verified my order three times. They sent me a PCI firewire expansion card instead. |
| 19:46.00 | tensai | it's a real shame that chipset isn't listed on the outside of the box |
| 19:46.01 | dataw0lf|w | hans: huh. |
| 19:46.04 | hans | highest bidder |
| 19:46.15 | dataw0lf|w | .02 ! |
| 19:46.18 | hans | host ap mode, monitor, scan, whatnot |
| 19:46.21 | vontrapp | $5 |
| 19:46.25 | tensai | $.01! |
| 19:46.32 | hans | perfect linux support without external modules in 2.6 |
| 19:46.36 | dataw0lf|w | 20! |
| 19:46.39 | dataw0lf|w | (pesos) |
| 19:47.02 | jsmith | hans: $10.00 |
| 19:47.11 | hans | works great with kismet, air* |
| 19:47.13 | sjansen | hans: $50.00 |
| 19:47.27 | vontrapp | um $15 ? |
| 19:47.35 | sjansen | hans: $75.00 |
| 19:47.46 | vontrapp | ~lart sjansen |
| 19:47.50 | Uncle_Jesse | -$5 |
| 19:47.56 | dataw0lf|w | jeez, sjansen, what else are you expecting with that card? ... |
| 19:47.57 | tensai | I got mine at circuit city for $60 |
| 19:48.15 | dataw0lf|w | that said, I'll trade you my girlfriend for it. |
| 19:48.28 | hans | sorry, all girlfriend slots are filled |
| 19:49.12 | dataw0lf|w | yeah, same here. I'm trying to free some up. |
| 19:49.24 | hans | mine's soldered in |
| 19:49.35 | hans | sjansen: are you serious, or are you just poisoning the pot? |
| 19:49.47 | sjansen | hans: $500.00! |
| 19:50.09 | vontrapp | well, if there was any question to sjansen's sanity before, it's cleared up now |
| 19:50.21 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: -$15356890 |
| 19:50.29 | hans | sjansen: you didn't mention whether they were _good_ cards |
| 19:51.12 | sjansen | Is it a mini-pci 802.11g card that will work with an HP Bios? |
| 19:51.21 | hans | nope. pcmcia |
| 19:51.23 | hans | cardbus |
| 19:51.23 | sjansen | If not, I don't classify it as _good_. |
| 19:51.56 | hans | I don't much care how you classify this one - I was talking about the two you have. |
| 19:52.38 | hans | although I'm curious about what is sooo bad about having something sticking out the side of your laptop which is already the size of a puma |
| 19:52.50 | synic | dataw0lf|w: woot, got a new video card for the work machine. I can play bzflag again |
| 19:53.03 | sjansen | The inconvenience of removing it so it doesn't break in my bag. |
| 19:53.05 | dataw0lf|w | I guess that means you're getting owned when I get home. |
| 19:53.20 | synic | :P |
| 19:53.31 | hans | sjansen: vs the inconvenience of not having wireless, or using ndiswrapper? methinks your priorities are a little screwy |
| 19:53.41 | vontrapp | sjansen: you have mini-pci cards that work in the hp bios that aren't broadcomm? |
| 19:53.53 | sjansen | nope |
| 19:53.53 | dataw0lf|w | synic: my stealth-fu will ownz you. |
| 19:54.10 | dataw0lf|w | that's correct. 'ownz'. |
| 19:54.21 | synic | we'll see |
| 19:54.25 | dataw0lf|w | as in 'you'. |
| 19:54.28 | hans | openvpn 2.0 released! |
| 19:54.33 | vontrapp | w00t! |
| 19:54.34 | sjansen | dataw0lf: yeah, well, I'll 0wnz j00! |
| 19:55.14 | dataw0lf|w | someone who smirks that much.... don't let your kids around him. |
| 19:55.18 | jsmith | hans: Yup. And don't forget who convinced you to use it :-) |
| 19:55.31 | hans | jsmith: I owe you my second dog |
| 19:55.34 | hans | maybe even my first |
| 19:55.42 | jsmith | hans: Thanks man... |
| 19:55.58 | hans | dataw0lf|w: I think he's got the evil eye! |
| 19:57.46 | vontrapp | well i've got a laaaaaaazy eeeye |
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| 20:02.40 | sjansen | o/~ Don't mess with my Toot Toot. Don't you mess with my Toot Toot. ~/o |
| 20:03.03 | hans | ~sing |
| 20:03.04 | ibot | ACTION sings off key Whaohwooaaoooaaah! Good bye 70s! |
| 20:03.21 | hans | i hope toot toot is a hick car |
| 20:03.35 | hans | where did ibot learn that song? |
| 20:03.45 | hans | does ibot observe us singing? |
| 20:03.49 | Jayce^ | mmm, ibot like yaz :) |
| 20:04.25 | Maquis | ~sing |
| 20:04.26 | ibot | ACTION sings off key Whaohwooaaoooaaah! Good bye 70s! |
| 20:04.58 | Maquis | ~sing |
| 20:05.00 | ibot | "Night fever, night fever. You know how to do it!" |
| 20:05.19 | hans | ~literal sing |
| 20:05.20 | ibot | "sing" is "<action>sings loudly||<reply>"Night fever, night fever. You know how to do it!"||<action>sings off key Whaohwooaaoooaaah! Good bye 70s!" |
| 20:05.51 | Maquis | didn't ibot used to know "stayin' alive"? |
| 20:07.02 | sjansen | http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/john-fogerty/74048.html |
| 20:07.04 | vontrapp | gah, how come mysql refuses to do anything useful with a datetime field compared to now()? |
| 20:07.19 | sjansen | casting? |
| 20:08.43 | jsmith | Because it's MySQL? |
| 20:08.57 | sjansen | jsmith: needed to be said |
| 20:09.03 | dataw0lf|w | yes, yes it did. |
| 20:09.09 | vontrapp | select now() > datetime_field -- 1 |
| 20:09.17 | vontrapp | select now() < datetime_field -- 0 |
| 20:09.32 | jsmith | Man, I hate the date and time functions in MySQL... |
| 20:09.35 | Maquis | vontrapp: what are you expecting? |
| 20:09.49 | vontrapp | for all values of datetime_field (at least within today) |
| 20:10.02 | dataw0lf|w | there are many unimpressive things about MySQL. |
| 20:10.18 | vontrapp | Maquis: i'm expecting it to actually tell me if datetime_field is sooner or later than now |
| 20:10.43 | Maquis | select * from datetime_field where now() < datetime_field ? |
| 20:10.45 | jsmith | dataw0lf: Yes, but I'll get flamed again if I say any more :-) And since I'm stuck managing several hundred MySQL boxen at work, I'll keep my mouth shut. |
| 20:10.58 | Jayce^ | vontrapp, < works |
| 20:11.05 | dataw0lf|w | jsmith: Yeah, MySQL, unfortunately, is an evil that most have to deal with. |
| 20:11.25 | Maquis | ok... not trying to start a flame-war, but i currently have mysql on my computer... when i reformat, i'd like to stick a different db, but i'm not sure what to use... |
| 20:11.30 | Maquis | i don't use it for much... |
| 20:11.53 | Maquis | so, i want something moderately light-weight... |
| 20:12.09 | Maquis | but i want to be able to use it with moderate loads if i move that direction |
| 20:12.20 | sjansen | sqlite |
| 20:12.22 | jsmith | Maquis: Some people like SQLite... it's lightweight. Personally, I'm a PostgreSQL believer... |
| 20:12.38 | jsmith | Maquis: But it's probably overkill. |
| 20:12.44 | Maquis | what makes all these better than mysql? |
| 20:12.46 | sjansen | If you need it to be robust, postgres. |
| 20:12.50 | jsmith | Maquis: So listen to sjansen |
| 20:12.52 | levi | SQLite is pretty lightweight, indeed. It gets linked into your individual apps though, doesn't it? |
| 20:12.55 | *** join/#utah bzob (~bzob@nat.myfamilyinc.com) |
| 20:13.01 | jsmith | levi: Most often, yes. |
| 20:13.06 | sjansen | levi: It can. But it can also be stand alone. |
| 20:13.07 | jsmith | bzob: Welcome back :-) |
| 20:13.25 | sjansen | Maquis: Little things like data integrity. |
| 20:13.27 | levi | sjansen: Hmm. I don't think it could when I first looked at it. |
| 20:13.41 | Jayce^ | If you need it to be robust, s/postgres/oracle/ :) |
| 20:13.44 | sjansen | *shrug* It can now. |
| 20:13.54 | Maquis | the thing is, i learned sql on sql server at work... so, i know how to do a good bit with it... but i don't have a lot that needs to be done with it now.... |
| 20:13.54 | sjansen | s/robust/expensive/ |
| 20:14.11 | Jayce^ | postgres still lacks compared to oracle in many things |
| 20:14.12 | Maquis | is the difference between postgres and sqlite just size? |
| 20:14.16 | jsmith | Jayce^: I thought you liked MySQL? |
| 20:14.25 | Jayce^ | jsmith, I do, I also like postgres though :) |
| 20:14.29 | sjansen | Sqlite has good support for the SQL standard. In some places, actually better than MySQL. |
| 20:14.29 | jsmith | Maquis: No, PostgreSQL will do a lot of things that SQLite won't. |
| 20:14.34 | fozz | THAT IS SO WEIRD! |
| 20:14.36 | sjansen | MySQL will teach you bad habits. |
| 20:14.37 | fozz | ;-) |
| 20:14.42 | jsmith | fozz: What is so weird? |
| 20:14.47 | Maquis | sjansen: sql server teaches you bad habits |
| 20:14.58 | fozz | jsmith: That Jayce likes both. :) |
| 20:15.03 | Jayce^ | Maquis, sqlite is a nice, very light system, but in no means something you would put a large system on.. performance is *not* there |
| 20:15.05 | jsmith | fozz: Yup... |
| 20:15.06 | levi | Hey, I like both vi and emacs. |
| 20:15.06 | Maquis | i've learned that a good number of the tricks i learned don't work in standard sql |
| 20:15.10 | dataw0lf|w | Postgres > * |
| 20:15.20 | Maquis | ~flame levi |
| 20:15.22 | ibot | Maquis sux0rz d00d!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@@!!!!!!!11 |
| 20:15.24 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, far from it |
| 20:15.26 | jsmith | Maquis: Try PostgreSQL... I think you'll like it. |
| 20:15.28 | sjansen | Jayce^: Of course not. Think of Sqlite as access done right. |
| 20:15.33 | Maquis | hey! |
| 20:15.41 | Maquis | jsmith: i think i might... |
| 20:15.46 | Jayce^ | sjansen, now I wouldn't put it down that much :) |
| 20:15.47 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: what, the old Oracle argument? |
| 20:15.48 | Maquis | it'd at least be some good experience |
| 20:16.00 | jsmith | Maquis: Yes, it would be. |
| 20:16.07 | Maquis | why did ibot flame me? |
| 20:16.10 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, one of a few, to get the best info you need to talk to dan here though.. |
| 20:16.14 | levi | Maquis: I will refrain from mocking you. :) |
| 20:16.15 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: I'm not talking about huge databases here. |
| 20:16.16 | Maquis | it told him to flame levi |
| 20:16.21 | sjansen | Oracle and DB2 can still go places PG can't. |
| 20:16.24 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, I am, work requires it |
| 20:16.37 | Maquis | DB2? |
| 20:16.47 | levi | DB2 is IBM's database. |
| 20:16.54 | Jayce^ | Maquis, IBM's enterprise db system |
| 20:16.59 | Jayce^ | ~db2 |
| 20:17.00 | ibot | Universal Database for Linux. URL: http://www.software.ibm.com/data/db2/linux/. Dragon Bane 2, a role playing game in the same genre as Bard's Tale |
| 20:17.02 | sjansen | Maquis: Be a rebel. Use Firebird. |
| 20:17.17 | levi | I used to get db2 magazine, for some reason. |
| 20:17.37 | Jayce^ | firebird is free |
| 20:17.47 | Maquis | sjansen: what's different about firebird from others? |
| 20:17.51 | hans | sjansen: I thought you were suggesting an old version of firefox for a minute |
| 20:17.55 | sjansen | Maquis: Generally, enterprise means bloated and difficult to install. |
| 20:17.56 | levi | No, enterprise means 'for really big companies that need to do mission-critical stuff' or something. |
| 20:18.22 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: I'm talking about an good all around database for development and just in general. I think PG wins out. |
| 20:18.23 | sjansen | Free Enterprise software exists, like JBoss. |
| 20:18.25 | Maquis | i haven't seen much enterprise stuff that is free in both ways |
| 20:19.00 | levi | Well, typically enterprise stuff comes with some sort of really big support contract. |
| 20:19.08 | Maquis | yeah... |
| 20:19.12 | sjansen | levi: That's the theory. In practice, Enterprise just means 'big and bloated, difficult to install or admin' or 'makes mangers feel warm and fuzzy'. |
| 20:19.30 | Maquis | which stinks for those of us who don't want the support contract, and would rather just not shell out the cash |
| 20:19.36 | Jayce^ | thankfully we have a big boss that would like to see some migration from oracle. |
| 20:19.48 | hans | Maquis: it stinks for those that actually want to _use_ that support contract too |
| 20:19.49 | levi | sjansen: Well, it's the marketing aspect of the practice, too. |
| 20:19.51 | Jayce^ | but we make heavy use of Oracle, MySQL, SqLite, and PG here |
| 20:20.09 | Maquis | hans: what's wrong with using it? isn't that why you have it? |
| 20:20.22 | sjansen | true, Enterprise also generally means 'someone took a manager out for a game of golf'. |
| 20:20.23 | hans | only that more often than not it's worse than dell's "tech support" |
| 20:20.51 | Maquis | ick |
| 20:20.53 | fozz | Oracle has some nice stuff... |
| 20:21.09 | hans | of course I'm stereotyping from my limited experience |
| 20:21.09 | Maquis | actually, i did get good results from dell one time when talking to them for a girl on my floor |
| 20:21.10 | sjansen | Enterprise software is the reason I love Free Software with an undying passion. |
| 20:21.11 | fozz | like scalability and the ability to configure how the data is stored on the storage harware. |
| 20:21.51 | fozz | But there's something to be said for the fact that PostgreSQL server takes up maybe a couple dozen megabytes and Oracle server takes up half a gig. |
| 20:21.55 | Maquis | she was talking to them, and i was there to help with more technical aspects... suddenly i had the phone, and was talking with the support guy |
| 20:22.02 | Jayce^ | fozz, dan was actually pushing oracle over pg for just the backup issue (sure there were other, but that was his biggest concern) |
| 20:22.25 | fozz | Jayce^: Doesn't he know you can do live dumps? |
| 20:22.33 | Jayce^ | yes |
| 20:22.34 | Jayce^ | of course |
| 20:22.39 | sjansen | Got tired of watching obscene payments being made so that I could experience the joy of explaining our problems to a person that barely understood English, called back at 3 AM (becuase, hey, it's noon in Delhi), and was just going to file away our problem so that if it effected enough people eventually it might be looked at. |
| 20:22.44 | Jayce^ | but that's *nothing* nearly as good as the rman setup we have here |
| 20:22.55 | fozz | rman? |
| 20:23.09 | Jayce^ | oracle's recovery manager |
| 20:23.14 | hans | Jayce^ Jayce^ he's rman |
| 20:23.16 | fozz | Is that an ancient r-command I'm not familiar with? |
| 20:23.26 | Jayce^ | hans-- |
| 20:23.26 | fozz | r-commands are evil. |
| 20:23.31 | sjansen | rman is slick, but I still trust hot backups more |
| 20:23.42 | fozz | Oh I get it. Read man pages on remote computers without using a password. Slick. |
| 20:23.58 | Jayce^ | sjansen, you might think different if you met with our dba team, and the stuff they have setup |
| 20:26.48 | sjansen | Finally! |
| 20:27.10 | sjansen | That took longer than it should have. |
| 20:29.26 | sjansen | Oh, and did I mention repeatedly re-introducing old bugs? That was one of the things I hated most about Siteminder. They were good at two things: adding bullet points their feature list and re-introducing old bugs. Of course, now they're part of CA. |
| 20:29.32 | sjansen | Enterprise. Heh. |
| 20:34.13 | Uncle_Jesse | ~kick sjansen |
| 20:34.15 | ibot | bugger off sod! |
| 20:35.05 | bucky | ~hug sjansen |
| 20:35.09 | ibot | ACTION hugs sjansen |
| 20:39.15 | Uncle_Jesse | ~poke sjansen |
| 20:39.17 | ibot | but then who will poke the pokers, Uncle_Jesse? |
| 20:39.25 | sjansen | ~jab Uncle_Jesse |
| 20:39.31 | Maquis | ~mock sjansen |
| 20:39.33 | ibot | ACTION pulls sjansen's pants down and shows the world sjansen's pink spotted underwear |
| 20:39.34 | Uncle_Jesse | ~defend |
| 20:41.25 | Uncle_Jesse | haha! |
| 20:43.54 | bucky | ~spank bucky |
| 20:43.56 | ibot | ACTION bends bucky over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on bucky's pasty white buttocks. |
| 20:45.41 | xilch|w | pink spotted what? oh - just underwear |
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| 20:57.59 | hans | ~lart domino |
| 20:58.19 | bucky | ~seen Maquis |
| 20:58.21 | ibot | maquis is currently on #utah (9h 52m 21s). Has said a total of 59 messages. Is idling for 18m 50s |
| 20:58.22 | hans | what is so hard about dealing with text/plain attachments? |
| 20:58.31 | Maquis | bucky: what? |
| 20:58.39 | bucky | hi :) |
| 20:58.46 | Maquis | hi |
| 20:58.59 | hans | why does it have to go and convert them to application/octet-stream and then tell notes users that it can't figure out how to open them? |
| 21:14.22 | levi | hans: I'm sure they did that just to make your life difficult. |
| 21:14.30 | Bradipo | hans: Sure would be nice if you could just vi the file on the server and make it text/plain again. :-) |
| 21:14.56 | Bradipo | Or is it still in text/plain on the server and receives conversion in transit from server to client? |
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| 21:22.11 | Maquis | ~lart ECS |
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| 21:37.22 | vontrapp | i think i really like evilwm |
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| 21:40.41 | vontrapp | who knows anything about writing a pango language module? |
| 21:41.12 | lukfugl | wasn't pango the game where you run around squishing bees? |
| 21:43.00 | vontrapp | well maybe it was that too |
| 21:43.18 | vontrapp | but i'm talking about the font/language international pan=all go=language system |
| 21:44.17 | vontrapp | how dissapointing, evilwm doesn't support unicode |
| 21:45.00 | sjansen | I'd love to see a version of Tex built on Pango. But that'd take _a long time_. |
| 21:45.07 | vontrapp | sjansen: any pointers how to go about writing a language module? |
| 21:46.09 | vontrapp | why would it take a long time sjansen ? |
| 21:46.23 | vontrapp | it's supposed to be very transparent |
| 21:46.30 | Maquis | vontrapp: evilwm is great :) |
| 21:46.50 | vontrapp | Maquis: yeah, give it unicode and it will be even more so ;) |
| 21:46.58 | Maquis | :) |
| 21:47.16 | vontrapp | of course, programs _in_ evilwm have unicode (when they do) |
| 21:47.32 | vontrapp | but if i have a window with some cambodian title, then it doesn't show in the info |
| 21:48.20 | Maquis | hmmm... my info only gives the dimensions for the window |
| 21:48.46 | vontrapp | version 0.99.17 |
| 21:49.04 | vontrapp | i have the title, and the dimensions |
| 21:49.06 | Maquis | same for me |
| 21:49.11 | Maquis | i probably changed it someplace |
| 21:49.20 | Maquis | probably some compile-time option :) |
| 21:49.48 | vontrapp | does it have some kind of smart placement you can turn on? |
| 21:50.07 | Maquis | smart placement? as in snap? |
| 21:50.21 | Maquis | it has something like snapping... forget what it calls it |
| 21:50.21 | vontrapp | as in put a new window in an unoccupied space |
| 21:50.33 | Maquis | oh... it puts a new window under the cursor |
| 21:51.51 | vontrapp | grr, i royally messed up my terminal |
| 21:52.46 | vontrapp | Maquis: where are the config files? |
| 21:52.47 | hans | reset? |
| 21:52.58 | vontrapp | hans, not without quitting irssi |
| 21:53.32 | vontrapp | it's mostly better now |
| 21:53.51 | hans | vontrapp: you're not in screen? |
| 21:53.54 | hans | ctrl-l |
| 21:54.32 | vontrapp | i did some cursor movement stuff and overwrote part of one of Maquis' statements, for example |
| 21:55.30 | vontrapp | the thing i'll miss most is the clock on the taskbar |
| 21:55.43 | Maquis | vontrapp: config files? |
| 21:55.49 | vontrapp | si |
| 21:56.08 | Maquis | no lo tiene |
| 21:56.16 | Maquis | it's all compile-time :) |
| 21:56.21 | vontrapp | que? |
| 21:56.30 | Maquis | or stuff you stick in your .xinitrc |
| 21:56.40 | Maquis | how did you install it? |
| 21:56.48 | vontrapp | apt-get |
| 21:57.05 | Maquis | no! don't do that! just go to evilwm.sourceforge.net and get the source |
| 21:57.08 | Maquis | it's only 24K |
| 21:57.12 | Maquis | (and that's not zipped) |
| 21:57.33 | Maquis | then, you open up the makefile, and change the options around, and then make, make install, etc |
| 21:57.37 | Maquis | and it's done |
| 21:57.42 | Maquis | at 24K it's really simple |
| 22:00.29 | hans | does unicode |
| 22:00.39 | vontrapp | but hans, evilwm has orange window borders, how can you beat that? |
| 22:00.52 | hans | no, but fvwm can make orange window borders if you like. |
| 22:01.20 | vontrapp | can fvwm be titlebar-less? |
| 22:01.24 | hans | sure |
| 22:01.52 | dataw0lf|w | does it cook you dinner and do your laundry? |
| 22:01.56 | vontrapp | at 24k i should be able to get evilwm to do unicode, eh? |
| 22:02.13 | hans | huh? |
| 22:02.14 | sjansen | vontrapp: use the source, it's the evilwm way |
| 22:03.15 | hans | i don't care how big it is, the Makefile isn't a config fiel. |
| 22:03.33 | vontrapp | hans: agreed |
| 22:03.40 | hans | besides, evilwm will turn you into a vegan. You don't want that, do you? |
| 22:04.22 | Maquis | vontrapp: i didn't do it with emerge... because emerge doesn't let you mess with stuff |
| 22:04.32 | hans | vontrapp: here, tell you what. You tell me what you like about evilwm and I'll tell you that fvwm can do that. |
| 22:04.55 | Maquis | vontrapp: i know that amcnabb has been working a bit with evilwm, and i'm planning on working a bit with it this summer to add some different things that i want |
| 22:04.58 | ECS | (15:22:11) ***ibot forces ECS to use Outlook Express |
| 22:04.59 | hans | then I'll throw in at least one bonus feature evilwm can't do. |
| 22:05.18 | Maquis | hans: the thing i like about evilwm is that it's small enough to play with the source |
| 22:05.20 | hans | and maquis will implement it. |
| 22:05.25 | Maquis | does fvwm have that? |
| 22:05.34 | hans | that is indeed a great virtue, if you're interested in hacking a WM. |
| 22:05.54 | Maquis | hans: given that i'm still learning, it's great |
| 22:06.00 | Maquis | ECS: yes |
| 22:06.14 | ECS | But ECS already has to use Outlook |
| 22:07.05 | Maquis | ECS: that's too bad... :) |
| 22:07.36 | lukfugl | Jayce^: awake? |
| 22:07.48 | sjansen | ~prod Jayce^ |
| 22:07.50 | ibot | ACTION zaps Jayce^ with a high voltage cattle prod |
| 22:08.17 | hans | Maquis: yup, really cool if that's what you want to spend your time learning |
| 22:08.35 | hans | and there's certainly nothing wrong with it. We could certainly use some non-braindamaged people working on window managers. |
| 22:08.43 | Maquis | haha |
| 22:08.56 | sjansen | guess that rules me out |
| 22:09.24 | sjansen | good thing I had to intention to waste^?^?^?^?^?spend my time on it |
| 22:09.30 | hans | Maquis: I heartily agree. Find some project to contribute to this summer. |
| 22:09.38 | Maquis | :) |
| 22:09.50 | hans | whatever it is that piques your interest enough to hold it, go for it |
| 22:09.50 | sjansen | Better yet, find a bank account to contribute to. |
| 22:09.53 | Maquis | it's always hard to find a project to contribute to that doesn't require forever just to figure out what's going on |
| 22:09.54 | hans | if that's evilwm, great |
| 22:10.15 | Maquis | sjansen: thanks, but no thanks... i'll be trying to contribute to my own bank account... |
| 22:10.48 | hans | not so hard. there's lots of projects and always something at the right level/size |
| 22:10.50 | sjansen | ~prod lukfugl |
| 22:10.53 | ibot | ACTION zaps lukfugl with a high voltage cattle prod |
| 22:10.56 | hans | ~sleep Jayce^ |
| 22:10.58 | ibot | ACTION sends Jayce^ to bed without supper |
| 22:11.02 | lukfugl | Jayce^: I noticed that your machine name in the perl sig thread is 'riva' |
| 22:11.14 | lukfugl | is that fromh David Eddings books? |
| 22:11.42 | vontrapp | ~lart lag |
| 22:11.48 | Maquis | ~prod Jayce^ |
| 22:11.50 | ibot | ACTION zaps Jayce^ with a high voltage cattle prod |
| 22:11.51 | Maquis | ~sleep lukfugl |
| 22:11.54 | ibot | ACTION sends lukfugl to bed without supper |
| 22:12.09 | dataw0lf|w | ala the Belgariad, the Mallorean. |
| 22:12.25 | Maquis | sjansen: huh? |
| 22:12.41 | lukfugl | dataw0lf|w: yup |
| 22:12.46 | dataw0lf|w | Good books. |
| 22:12.47 | sjansen | trying to manually manipulate the #utah process table |
| 22:12.47 | lukfugl | I'm halfway through the Mallorean right now |
| 22:12.57 | dataw0lf|w | Read Belgarath the Sorceror when you finish. |
| 22:13.00 | lukfugl | was just wondering if that was where Jayce^ got it from |
| 22:13.02 | dataw0lf|w | best book he ever wrote. |
| 22:13.23 | lukfugl | dataw0lf|w: planning on it |
| 22:13.26 | Maquis | sjansen: i am? |
| 22:13.27 | sjansen | One of the best opening to a book is Sparhawk creeping up with a loop of wire to strangle someone. |
| 22:13.29 | Maquis | oh... |
| 22:13.32 | Maquis | i get it |
| 22:13.40 | lukfugl | sjansen: my wife's reading those ones right now |
| 22:13.50 | dataw0lf|w | Read those too. |
| 22:14.00 | dataw0lf|w | Not as good as the Belgariad world. |
| 22:16.00 | dataw0lf|w | Eddings political and religious commentary throughout all of his books is pretty entertaining, though. |
| 22:16.12 | Jayce^ | lukfugl, my sons name is Garion :) |
| 22:16.25 | lukfugl | Jayce^: really? :) |
| 22:16.30 | Jayce^ | yes |
| 22:16.44 | Jayce^ | although that wasn't special to the books, just stood out as a name I actually liked |
| 22:16.56 | lukfugl | my wife's gonna look forward to meeting you then, she's a big eddings fan (introduced me) |
| 22:17.02 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 22:17.06 | lukfugl | you coming to the 30th matinee of HHGG? |
| 22:17.19 | Jayce^ | was planning on going on the 29th |
| 22:17.37 | Jayce^ | anways, the eddings books are fun, light reads |
| 22:17.42 | levi | I was an Eddings fan until I read the same story with the same dialog for the umpteenth time. |
| 22:18.01 | Jayce^ | levi, he uses very basic patterns, agreed.. |
| 22:18.03 | sjansen | heh |
| 22:18.17 | Jayce^ | of course, not nearly as trite as the D&D specific books :) |
| 22:18.21 | levi | I was also a Robert Jordan fan for a while. |
| 22:18.33 | sjansen | If you're read the Belgariad, you've read the Mallorean. Doesn't mean they're not enjoyable. |
| 22:18.34 | levi | But I can't bring myself to read any more of his books. |
| 22:18.48 | Jayce^ | levi, until you wanted to kill him violently for introducing yet another subplot that takes it's own book? |
| 22:19.07 | levi | sjansen: I read and enjoyed both. Read a few more of his other series, but lost the desire to read any more. |
| 22:19.07 | sjansen | Thankfully, I stopped 200 pages into the first Jordan book after realizing the main character had walked one block. |
| 22:19.13 | Jayce^ | sjansen, at least his other books are different :) |
| 22:19.26 | neybar | yeah, I refuse to read another Jordan book until he prints the last book. Then I will read them all one last time and be done with it. |
| 22:19.30 | Jayce^ | just got my wife addicted to jordon... |
| 22:20.04 | Jayce^ | neybar can vouch for my sons name |
| 22:20.22 | Jayce^ | some halloween, I'll have to paint his palm blue.. see who get's the joke |
| 22:20.29 | bucky | sjansen, bricolage use php now |
| 22:20.42 | Jayce^ | bucky, now that's a generalization and a half :) |
| 22:20.43 | neybar | the problem is that he spaces his books to far apart, and they are so complicated that you really have to read the whole series each time a new book comes out. I don't have that kind of time anymore. It was entertaining when I was still in high school and had nothing better to do. |
| 22:20.50 | lukfugl | Jayce^: I was under the impression that the palm-mark was white... but maybe I just missed the adjective somewhere |
| 22:20.56 | sjansen | bucky: huh? |
| 22:21.12 | Jayce^ | lukfugl, yeah, it is, whitish blue, but the orb of course is blue |
| 22:21.19 | lukfugl | yeah, the orb is |
| 22:21.25 | bucky | sjansen, bricolage can "sandwiche php into it's perl now |
| 22:21.33 | Jayce^ | sjansen, bucky read the article when he talks about givnig a PHP module so you can use php in the templating part |
| 22:21.52 | sjansen | url? |
| 22:21.56 | Jayce^ | bucky, really, all perl can do it, they are just setting it so bricolage uses it |
| 22:21.58 | bucky | looking |
| 22:22.07 | Jayce^ | sjansen, he mentions it in that interview I sent you |
| 22:23.00 | bucky | sjansen, about half way down the page MP: What is the next big project for Bricolage? |
| 22:23.01 | bucky | http://madpenguin.org/cms/html/62/3926.html |
| 22:24.14 | sjansen | Jayce^: "Unlike the current Perl implementation of the PHP interpreter, this PHP interpreter will be able to reach back into Perl space to get access to data that has been loaded in Perl, to be able to use modules that have been loaded into Perl, and that sort of thing." |
| 22:24.31 | Jayce^ | sjansen, right, the module is on CPAN.. interesting stuff.. |
| 22:24.43 | Jayce^ | instead of INLINE type mechanisms |
| 22:25.26 | sjansen | Now people can use PHP for what it was intended for (templating) without worrying about threads (because your logic really should be Perl). |
| 22:25.28 | sjansen | I like it. |
| 22:25.39 | bucky | :) |
| 22:26.36 | Maquis | vontrapp: why? |
| 22:26.40 | Maquis | move to seattle |
| 22:26.45 | Maquis | you can do a sun-dance there :) |
| 22:26.46 | sjansen | Oh, wait, this is Utah. |
| 22:26.57 | vontrapp | if i wanted rain _all_ the time i'd move to seattle |
| 22:27.01 | Jayce^ | Maquis, heard this years things are different |
| 22:27.04 | vontrapp | i just want some rain tonight |
| 22:27.20 | Maquis | Jayce^: i've heard it's been different for the past 2 years or so... |
| 22:27.22 | Maquis | kinda weird |
| 22:27.38 | Maquis | vontrapp: why tonight? |
| 22:27.42 | Maquis | trying to get out of something? |
| 22:27.44 | bucky | it will be a good morning to go snow boarding in the off limits back country tomarrow |
| 22:27.48 | vontrapp | cuase there's already a chance from the looks of it |
| 22:27.52 | Jayce^ | yeah, when I went up last year, I couldn't believe how warm it was, and how relatively dry things were |
| 22:28.14 | Maquis | Jayce^: no kidding... not sure i like it all that much... it's less green... |
| 22:28.30 | Jayce^ | strange to see a brown tint on a spruce |
| 22:30.09 | Maquis | :) |
| 22:30.51 | Maquis | haha |
| 22:30.51 | hans | ARGH. I forgot my Route Y password again |
| 22:30.53 | *** join/#utah ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
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| 22:31.07 | hans | Jayce^: you're replacing the gpl? |
| 22:31.12 | sjansen | Did you mean to say black-box "Enterprise" billing system? |
| 22:31.19 | Jayce^ | hans, you know it :) |
| 22:31.21 | Jayce^ | sjansen, oh yeah |
| 22:32.50 | hans | ~hug firefox |
| 22:32.52 | ibot | ACTION hugs firefox |
| 22:33.02 | hans | firefox lets me see my saved passwords. lifesaver. |
| 22:34.27 | sjansen | After much weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth, I think I finally understand ConTeXt typescripts. |
| 22:35.50 | hans | snoopy with a beard |
| 22:36.10 | Jayce^ | joe cool he aint |
| 22:39.19 | vontrapp | you know what would be cool, a wm that could move groups of windows together |
| 22:39.33 | vontrapp | like a shift-drag-select move type thing |
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| 22:43.12 | hans | now, sjansen as ed grimley... |
| 22:44.51 | Jayce^ | does sjansen eat quaker oats? |
| 22:47.00 | Jayce^ | Wilfered Brimley <sp?> |
| 22:49.34 | hans | how much is the o'reilly UG discount? |
| 22:50.12 | Jayce^ | 20% |
| 22:50.22 | Jayce^ | most online retailers give about the same |
| 22:50.34 | Jayce^ | it counts best for conferences and such |
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| 23:00.28 | shadoi | vontrapp: enlightenment can do that |
| 23:00.49 | shadoi | using window groups |
| 23:02.18 | vontrapp | ah, but on the fly selected groups? |
| 23:06.32 | shadoi | vontrapp: no, you have to set them but it will remember them according to windowclass, etc. |
| 23:11.06 | vontrapp | but most times i wouldn't want to bother with creating some window group or worse classes, usually it would just be a case where i want to move these windows right now and if i had to do any special grouping that took longer than just moving them individually, it would never happen |
| 23:15.24 | shadoi | vontrapp: so you'd want a key modifier that would allow multiple window selection.. ? |
| 23:16.33 | vontrapp | yeah |
| 23:19.18 | mrpull_ | k |
| 23:20.18 | vontrapp | is there any way to configure mplayer to use one audio output plugin if available and cascade to another if the first is not available? |
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| 23:45.39 | lukfugl | ~prod hans |
| 23:45.41 | ibot | ACTION zaps hans with a high voltage cattle prod |
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