| 00:17.05 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@pool-68-160-144-239.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:26.09 | SpecialK | ~lart emcnabb |
| 00:28.04 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-67-161-242-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:34.12 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@sorenson.dsl.csolutions.net) |
| 00:41.50 | Maquis | ~lart emcnabb |
| 00:44.29 | *** join/#utah ggundy (~ggundy@206.173.158.222.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 01:01.53 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 01:01.56 | sjansen | http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/4351749/detail.html |
| 01:06.04 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@209.197.11.63) |
| 01:15.56 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~josh@josh.dsl.aros.net) |
| 02:28.47 | findlay | ~lart emcnabb |
| 02:28.58 | findlay | ~lart Maquis |
| 02:30.55 | findlay | bonez39: try df -h |
| 02:31.52 | Maquis | ~lart findlay |
| 02:33.21 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@128.187.249.188) |
| 02:33.32 | findlay | bonez39: 100 Mb may not be enough for apt-get's business |
| 02:33.33 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-67-161-242-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:34.12 | Maquis | from uug-list: |
| 02:34.14 | Maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:34.15 | Maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:35.22 | findlay | my gmail auto-trims everything that would be offensive to my ego |
| 02:35.45 | sjansen | findlay is a poo poo pants |
| 02:36.35 | findlay | so if people slip in phrases like ``you arrogant pessimist'' all it shows it the friendly ``show asinine text'' |
| 02:37.02 | sjansen | findly is a doo doo face |
| 02:37.38 | findlay | sjansen needs a spell checker |
| 02:37.44 | findlay | ha |
| 02:37.53 | sjansen | and a grammar checker |
| 02:37.57 | sjansen | and a maid |
| 02:38.00 | sjansen | and a personal secretary |
| 02:38.11 | Maquis | and a girlfriend :) |
| 02:38.13 | findlay | doens't word offer all of those? |
| 02:38.16 | Maquis | and a life :) |
| 02:38.45 | findlay | that's it, sjansen, you should switch back from OO.o to MS Word |
| 02:39.05 | findlay | what Maquis, the girlfriend or the life, ... or both |
| 02:39.14 | findlay | is there something you're trying to tell us here? |
| 02:39.24 | findlay | (: |
| 02:39.49 | Maquis | i was running away from sjansen's wrath |
| 02:39.58 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:40.31 | sjansen | yep, real site |
| 02:40.34 | findlay | the almighty threat of sjansen's wrath satire |
| 02:43.13 | sjansen | Maquis: your message implies that I'm lurking, which I'm not |
| 02:43.19 | findlay | nor inculcate his tyranical whim |
| 02:43.32 | Maquis | sjansen: how does my message imply that you are lurking? |
| 02:43.56 | sjansen | and stuart's response to reading your post -- I haven't read his post |
| 02:44.17 | Maquis | sjansen: hmmm... poor wording on my part... |
| 02:44.33 | sjansen | Although when jakea asked me to confirm, I was curious to see how you quoted me. |
| 02:44.34 | Maquis | comments? |
| 02:44.50 | findlay | and indigent grammar |
| 02:44.53 | sjansen | findlay: liar |
| 02:45.26 | sjansen | You know you like to hide your $.50 education behind $5 words. |
| 02:45.52 | findlay | at least it can be occluded that way |
| 02:46.07 | sjansen | "inculcate" "tyranical" "rubber chicken" |
| 02:46.08 | jakea | man, sjansen, you're getting mean. I better not make any more beeping jokes |
| 02:46.43 | findlay | plastic turley |
| 02:46.51 | Maquis | jakea: for not running, you're still doing quite well in the elections |
| 02:47.22 | jakea | lol, ya, I was thinking I should announce I'm dead. That'll help me win votes for sure |
| 02:47.38 | Maquis | jakea: i don't quite understand... |
| 02:47.51 | Maquis | unless people just didn't see your email saying you dropped out... |
| 02:48.16 | jakea | who was it... some guy running for something died months before the election, and he still won |
| 02:49.08 | sjansen | ahem |
| 02:49.18 | Maquis | uh oh |
| 02:49.19 | midnight_bomber | So he says to me, you gotta do something smart, baby, something big! He says you want to be a supervillain, right, and I go yeah baby, yeah yeah! What do I gotta do? He says you got bombs, blow up the Comet Club, it's packed with superheroes…you'll go down in supervillain history and I go Yeah baby 'cause I'm the Evil Midnight Bomber what Bombs at Midnight!!! Ah ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! |
| 02:49.51 | fozz | That was .... whoa. |
| 02:50.27 | Maquis | the mighty fozz appears unsummoned |
| 02:50.54 | sjansen | perl perl perl |
| 02:53.02 | sjansen | findlay: you look awfully funny holding a light saber but sounding like something out of roughly post-Renaissance |
| 02:55.08 | findlay | Keep up your bright swords, for the dew will rust them! |
| 02:56.11 | *** join/#utah Peregrine (~lamontp@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 02:56.21 | jakea | php php php |
| 02:56.31 | Maquis | Peregrine: sup? |
| 02:56.35 | findlay | you can't really appreciate Shakespeare until you've read him in the original wookie |
| 02:56.36 | sjansen | ~muzzle jakea |
| 02:56.44 | jakea | hmmm |
| 02:56.57 | jakea | ~force_lightning sjansen |
| 02:57.05 | Peregrine | For those of you who are enjoying sjansen's quotes, I feel truly sorry that you could not also have enjoyed the "live" version as I have just done. |
| 02:57.27 | findlay | ooooh, do tell |
| 02:57.30 | Peregrine | Maquis: not much. Just whacking away at some web pages. |
| 02:57.31 | sjansen | Peregrine: oh, you should have said you enjoyed it |
| 02:57.56 | Maquis | sjansen: depending on how you parse the sentence, i think he did sya he enjoyed it |
| 02:58.09 | Peregrine | Probably the most interesting maniachal laugh I have ever heard. |
| 02:58.11 | Peregrine | :) |
| 02:58.43 | Peregrine | ~wtf ~force_lightning ?? |
| 02:58.48 | midnight_bomber | I just, uh, I just uh, wanted to use, the uh, and so he says Evil's OK in by my book what about yours and I go Yeah Baby Yeah! Yeah! I just wanted to uh, wash my hands… |
| 02:59.00 | findlay | aha! I always knew midnight_bomber was a villian |
| 02:59.16 | Peregrine | He's back! |
| 03:01.04 | sjansen | your light saber smacks of King Lear? |
| 03:01.21 | findlay | vaguely |
| 03:01.30 | sjansen | ah |
| 03:01.34 | sjansen | well, yess than |
| 03:01.37 | sjansen | quite |
| 03:05.40 | findlay | Peregrine: can you perhaps reproduce such an interesting maniachal laugh in ASCII? |
| 03:10.27 | jakea | Peregrine: You don't like my force lightning? |
| 03:10.43 | jakea | maybe I should use grease lightning instead |
| 03:13.47 | Peregrine | Oh, now I get (the force lightning) sorry. |
| 03:14.15 | Peregrine | Reproduce that in ASCII...hmm...don't think I should attempt it without my slide rule. |
| 03:14.34 | sjansen | 7-char nicks are for weenies |
| 03:14.52 | Maquis | literally... |
| 03:15.37 | sjansen | yeah, I could help but notice that "weenies" is 7 chars long myself |
| 03:16.12 | findlay | dramatic irony that is |
| 03:17.32 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@c-67-161-219-228.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:21.19 | findlay | that would be a fun GUI to code |
| 03:21.23 | findlay | (: |
| 03:22.09 | sjansen | and useful because the slide rule wouldn't be subject to physical limits on its length |
| 03:23.10 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~scott@216.126.221.115) |
| 03:24.44 | findlay | slide rules have something to do with Euler's number, Euler was not only the most prolific mathemetician, but also had a prolific family |
| 03:27.06 | findlay | I have to go home this weekend to see my family, so I need to find a ride tonight, therefore bye |
| 03:27.20 | findlay | until the next offtopic conversation |
| 03:31.20 | sjansen | almost nobody under the age of 60 would |
| 03:32.16 | sjansen | although I hear they're quite elegant |
| 03:32.16 | Maquis | sjansen: you wanna teach us, then? |
| 03:33.58 | sjansen | gonna have to try harder to be less obvious |
| 03:42.47 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.192.70) |
| 03:53.55 | *** join/#utah indessed (~ross@71-36-72-174.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 03:55.41 | Maquis | wow! |
| 03:55.52 | Maquis | the edge of the earth is right outside that door??? |
| 03:56.05 | indessed | When I hit backspace in a terminal, it works normally, unless I'm using some command such as "rm" where it results in: |
| 03:56.05 | indessed | remove regular file `foo'? no^H^Hyes dangit! |
| 03:56.23 | indessed | (resulting in one very-not-removed-file, obviously) |
| 03:56.44 | sjansen | ~hug strace |
| 03:56.46 | ibot | ACTION hugs strace |
| 03:57.14 | indessed | hey stuart, sad to see you depart from the uug-list |
| 03:57.48 | sjansen | indessed: Was enjoying your posts. |
| 03:58.21 | indessed | ah well. i've been thinking of "moving on" for a while too. |
| 03:58.34 | indessed | how does the plug list compare to the uug? |
| 03:58.47 | indessed | i tried subscribing once but it apparently only lasted for a week. |
| 03:58.54 | indessed | haven't bothered to resubscribe after that. |
| 03:59.46 | sjansen | less BYU but still pretty social |
| 04:00.02 | indessed | Sorry Maquis :-) |
| 04:00.44 | Maquis | ~go eat worms |
| 04:00.45 | ibot | o/~ nobody likes me, everybody hates me, i guess i'll go eat worms o/~ |
| 04:00.48 | indessed | poor maquis. please don't think it's your fault. |
| 04:00.54 | indessed | (at least not *all* your fault ;-) |
| 04:01.06 | sjansen | But it will be if you become pres. |
| 04:01.15 | indessed | byu uug just ain't for everyone. it's been changing for a while now, |
| 04:01.30 | indessed | you just happen to be coming into power during a transitional period. |
| 04:01.36 | Maquis | indessed: will you at least keep coming to installfests and such? |
| 04:01.42 | Maquis | (same for you sjansen) |
| 04:01.55 | sjansen | nope |
| 04:02.03 | Maquis | :( |
| 04:02.14 | indessed | it depends. if the plug installfests are way more fun i may have to plead the 5th. |
| 04:02.31 | Maquis | does plug have installfests? |
| 04:02.36 | sjansen | I live in NSL now. No way I'm driving an hour to help. |
| 04:02.47 | Maquis | the only one i've heard of is the xmission one last summer |
| 04:02.52 | indessed | i like helping poor ignorant byu-ers though. |
| 04:03.12 | indessed | sjansen: that's right, you darn bountifuller! |
| 04:06.32 | midnight_bomber | Yeah baby! and you've only got twenty seconds before you all…Eat Ceiling!!! |
| 04:06.43 | *** join/#utah mrpull_ (~mrpull@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:06.49 | Maquis | ~lart midnight_bomber |
| 04:10.17 | sjansen | ~hug ltrace |
| 04:10.19 | ibot | ACTION hugs ltrace |
| 04:10.36 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 04:19.21 | indessed | welcome to the club ;-) |
| 04:21.34 | indessed | sjansen: ./configure rm --withlargeheavyandbluntopts |
| 04:23.06 | Maquis | sjansen: ask goo if he still keeps a baseball bat in his trunk :) |
| 04:23.18 | sjansen | goo is gone and will be for the next month |
| 04:23.27 | Maquis | where to? |
| 04:23.37 | indessed | So does anybody have a solution to my ^H^H^H problem? |
| 04:23.50 | sjansen | besides stty erase? |
| 04:24.07 | Maquis | indessed: make sure you don't start typing yes, and then try to delete it and chane it to no |
| 04:24.24 | Newsome | indessed: "stty erase" is your friend. |
| 04:24.26 | indessed | sjansen: that's only used for the case when backspace won't work in the terminal at all, isn't it? |
| 04:24.39 | sjansen | yeah |
| 04:25.02 | Newsome | is his problem different? |
| 04:25.04 | indessed | Yeah, this is the case where backspace works normally unless I'm in some other command like rm or mv or something that asks for confirmation. |
| 04:25.22 | indessed | I can hit backspace in the terminal all day long, no prob, |
| 04:25.44 | sjansen | well, actually, I'd call that indicative of a problem |
| 04:25.46 | indessed | but if I try, say, to remove a file: remove regular file `foo'? no^H^Hyes dangit! |
| 04:25.57 | sjansen | although with the right meds you'd be able to control it |
| 04:26.11 | Maquis | like i said... just be sure you do no first... |
| 04:26.19 | Maquis | don't type yes, and then try to remove it :) |
| 04:26.22 | indessed | thanks maquis ;-) |
| 04:26.24 | indessed | so helpful. |
| 04:26.31 | Maquis | well, it is a good point |
| 04:26.32 | Maquis | :) |
| 04:26.42 | indessed | ooooh |
| 04:26.46 | indessed | stty erase worked! |
| 04:26.57 | indessed | for reasons that are unknown to me. |
| 04:27.31 | indessed | is there a way to see what stty erase currently is? (instead of changing it?) |
| 04:27.47 | Newsome | type "stty" |
| 04:28.02 | indessed | hm. interesting. |
| 04:28.08 | indessed | it's not set at all. |
| 04:28.21 | Newsome | then: stty -a |
| 04:28.34 | indessed | ^? |
| 04:28.43 | indessed | so if I set it to ^H, it works all the time. |
| 04:28.52 | indessed | when it's set to ^?, it only works when not inside a program. |
| 04:29.21 | Newsome | sounds like a term type problem |
| 04:29.26 | indessed | anyone know a way to copy-paste from OS X into X11-running-on-OS-X? |
| 04:29.40 | indessed | (in particular, from textedit into ooffice) |
| 04:29.45 | Maquis | ummmm... |
| 04:30.17 | Maquis | Newsome: none of those commands are working for me |
| 04:30.25 | Maquis | [sekhmet cs345] stty |
| 04:30.26 | Maquis | speed 38400 baud; line = 12; |
| 04:30.36 | indessed | yeah, that's what it's supposed to do maquis :-) |
| 04:30.55 | Maquis | where's the stuff that you're getting then? |
| 04:31.06 | indessed | stty -a |
| 04:31.09 | sjansen | then set it on fire |
| 04:31.20 | indessed | look for the part that says "erase" |
| 04:31.28 | Maquis | indessed: oh.... |
| 04:31.50 | indessed | to set it to something different, use: stty erase ^H |
| 04:31.50 | indessed | (for example) |
| 04:32.27 | Maquis | why does it default to ^? |
| 04:33.10 | Newsome | Maquis, that's what most clients pass to the terminal program |
| 04:33.31 | Maquis | Newsome: why? |
| 04:35.52 | Newsome | hmm |
| 04:36.26 | Maquis | (sorry if it's a stupid question...) |
| 04:36.57 | sjansen | Maquis: because IBM ruled the world and they decreed that it was thus and thus it was thus |
| 04:37.04 | Newsome | no, it's okay. I'm just trying to remember. |
| 04:37.34 | Maquis | does ^? have some inherent advantage over ^H? |
| 04:37.45 | indessed | maquis: they're just two different keys, "delete" and "backspace" |
| 04:37.53 | sjansen | My understanding is its just the same as cr, lf, and crlf |
| 04:38.13 | indessed | different terminals map the little thingy on your keyboard that says "Back Space" to send ^? or ^H depending. |
| 04:38.24 | Newsome | ^H is technically backspace |
| 04:38.37 | Maquis | doesn't "delete" remove the character under the cursor while "backspace" removes the character before the cursor? |
| 04:38.57 | Maquis | sjansen: i don't understand the difference between those either |
| 04:39.00 | sjansen | delete? there is no delete (said the former Mac user) |
| 04:39.00 | indessed | that's what most people use them for today, but that ain't always how it's been. |
| 04:39.14 | Newsome | I think ^? is often implemented as "Backspace, space, backspace" |
| 04:39.29 | sjansen | aka, erase |
| 04:39.40 | Maquis | Newsome: cool... that's how i got delete working on my shell for cs345... :) |
| 04:39.42 | indessed | maquis: macs, unixes, etc., didn't have the distinction between backspace and delete that currently exists. |
| 04:39.52 | Newsome | Maquis: You did it right, then! :) |
| 04:39.53 | Maquis | it works so long as i don't accidentally hit tab |
| 04:40.09 | Maquis | indessed: if they didn't have the distinction, why did they have different signals to send? |
| 04:40.14 | Maquis | Newsome: yay! |
| 04:40.16 | Newsome | what does it do if you hit Control-G? |
| 04:40.31 | Maquis | Newsome: ??? |
| 04:40.34 | sjansen | it dances |
| 04:40.39 | indessed | maquis: it's just like cr/lf, like sjansen said |
| 04:40.45 | sjansen | I hacked her laptop and added that feature last week. |
| 04:41.12 | Maquis | indessed: isn't one of those the reason why if you move files from a win computer to linux it gets the annoying ^M at the end of every line? |
| 04:41.18 | sjansen | yep |
| 04:41.25 | Newsome | oh, probably nothing anymore...should be the terminal bell |
| 04:41.28 | Maquis | so that was you sending all those ssh attacks? |
| 04:41.35 | Maquis | |
| 04:41.51 | sjansen | cr = Mac, lf = Unix, crlf = Windows (IIRC) |
| 04:42.10 | sjansen | cr = carriage return |
| 04:42.15 | sjansen | lf = line feed |
| 04:42.35 | sjansen | now image you have no screen, only a printer |
| 04:42.48 | Maquis | can i imagine it instead? |
| 04:42.51 | indessed | yeah, so when you open up a mac text file you get everything on one line :-) |
| 04:43.08 | *** join/#utah levi-laptop (~levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:43.12 | Maquis | indessed: with ^Ms where the linebreaks are supposed to be? |
| 04:43.25 | indessed | maquis: yup |
| 04:43.26 | levi-laptop | Good evening. :) |
| 04:43.29 | Maquis | who came up with that whole system? |
| 04:43.32 | indessed | ack! levi-laptop! |
| 04:43.39 | Maquis | i mean, honestly... |
| 04:43.46 | indessed | get it over with quickly tonight ;-) |
| 04:43.59 | levi-laptop | I wasn't going to bring it up. :) |
| 04:44.00 | Maquis | how hard would it be to standardize that??? |
| 04:44.06 | indessed | nobody "comes up" with these standards |
| 04:44.14 | indessed | they just evolve to the point where it would be too difficult to change them. |
| 04:44.16 | levi-laptop | I was going to bring up how cool Stomp was, though. |
| 04:44.20 | indessed | like endianness. |
| 04:44.21 | Maquis | but... |
| 04:44.25 | Maquis | bah |
| 04:44.33 | Maquis | they're so stupid though |
| 04:44.34 | indessed | yes, yes, I think it's stupid too. |
| 04:44.41 | indessed | But "that's the way it is"[tm]. |
| 04:44.48 | levi-laptop | What, that different systems use different conventions for the end of the line? |
| 04:45.02 | Maquis | levi-laptop: yup |
| 04:45.12 | indessed | yeah. or for backspace (^H, ^?) which is how originally we got on the subject. |
| 04:45.15 | levi-laptop | Maquis: Which one is not stupid, and why? |
| 04:45.34 | Newsome | indessed: what do you get when you do "echo $TERM" ? |
| 04:45.34 | Maquis | levi-laptop: what's stupid is that they didn't just pick one and use it instead of making 3 |
| 04:45.34 | indessed | levi: standardizing on One is not stupid. It doesn't matter which :-) |
| 04:45.51 | indessed | Newsome: Eterm |
| 04:46.02 | levi-laptop | Maquis: Who is 'they'? |
| 04:46.12 | Maquis | levi-laptop: i don't know |
| 04:46.23 | Maquis | the companies |
| 04:46.28 | Maquis | that make the computers |
| 04:46.33 | indessed | the same "they" that could have standardized on backspaces, or endianness, etc. |
| 04:46.33 | Maquis | s/computers/oss |
| 04:46.48 | sjansen | at least they created ASCII (eventually) |
| 04:46.58 | Maquis | the stupid people who decided to each do it their own way without caring what everyone else was doing |
| 04:47.07 | indessed | But like I said, nobody "comes up" with these things, they just evolve that way to the point where they're too hard to change. |
| 04:47.21 | indessed | Unfortunately. A good upfront design can solve many problems :-) |
| 04:47.31 | Maquis | speaking of which... it seems like it would've made much more sense to start the numbers in the ascii system at 1 |
| 04:47.32 | levi-laptop | It happened that way because different companies were developing computer systems at the same time. |
| 04:47.38 | Maquis | so that ascii 1 == 1 |
| 04:48.07 | Maquis | levi-laptop: yeah.. but... |
| 04:48.08 | levi-laptop | Complaining about different conventions like that is like complaining that people in different countries speak different languages. |
| 04:48.19 | Maquis | levi-laptop: that's annoying too, though |
| 04:48.24 | levi-laptop | Waah. |
| 04:48.30 | indessed | levi: I don't know about that. I'm a linguist at heart, |
| 04:48.37 | indessed | and I like having lots of languages around. |
| 04:48.45 | levi-laptop | Whatever you have to say about the French, at least their language sounds cool. |
| 04:48.48 | sjansen | me too\r |
| 04:48.55 | levi-laptop | indessed: I don't have any problem with it, either. |
| 04:48.57 | indessed | But I think there's a big difference between having different languages and having different linefeed characters. |
| 04:48.59 | sjansen | i like diversity\n\r |
| 04:49.06 | levi-laptop | indessed: But it does make communication difficult. |
| 04:49.16 | levi-laptop | indessed: Not really. |
| 04:49.22 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-67-161-242-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:49.22 | sjansen | so does talking to red necks |
| 04:49.35 | levi-laptop | Maquis: Life is going to really annoy you, I'm afraid. |
| 04:49.40 | indessed | levi: You don't think it would make things easier, without losing any expressive power, to simply standardize on a single endianness, say? |
| 04:49.41 | sjansen | oops, \r\n |
| 04:50.08 | indessed | if I could go back in time and make it so that everyone spoke a single language, I wouldn't do it. I don't think it would be possible. |
| 04:50.16 | sjansen | indessed: there is a standard, network format |
| 04:50.32 | indessed | but if I could go back in time and make sure everyone used the same endianness, I think it would be possible, |
| 04:50.40 | indessed | and I'd certainly do it. |
| 04:50.57 | levi-laptop | indessed: People would change it for the same reasons they change language. |
| 04:51.07 | indessed | I'm not certain how you can argue that having multiple endian-ness is an /advantage/. |
| 04:51.20 | sjansen | more robust |
| 04:51.25 | sjansen | virus resistant |
| 04:51.46 | indessed | levi: I totally and entirely disagree :-) endianness was an accident of evolution, not somebody being different because they wanted more expressive power. |
| 04:51.52 | Newsome | reading the manpage for termcap, and checking out the various options for the various terminal types in /etc/termcap can give a more interesting picture of everything |
| 04:51.59 | levi-laptop | Leaving the option to change things open leads to innovation. |
| 04:52.09 | indessed | similarly for linefeed characters. |
| 04:52.32 | indessed | I can't believe you're seriously arguing that having two different endian systems leads to innovation! |
| 04:52.45 | levi-laptop | That's not what I'm saying. |
| 04:52.52 | sjansen | it did |
| 04:53.17 | levi-laptop | I'm saying that letting people change things leads to innovation. Maybe the change in the endianness is an unfortunate side-effect. |
| 04:53.25 | sjansen | being able to cheat and spare a few transistors led to the rise of an insignificant company called Intel |
| 04:54.18 | indessed | levi: all i'm saying is that endianness differences (and linefeed differences) are unfortunate, |
| 04:54.28 | indessed | i'm not arguing that we shouldn't allow people to change things, for heaven's sake! |
| 04:54.40 | sjansen | indessed: commie |
| 04:54.48 | levi-laptop | indessed: The fact that I'd have to study for years to communicate with someone who only speaks another language is unfortunate, too. |
| 04:54.55 | indessed | it's not true! I've never been a member of that party, |
| 04:55.02 | indessed | or had any association, |
| 04:55.07 | indessed | or, um ... uh ... |
| 04:55.16 | levi-laptop | indessed: But it's a side-effect of diversity, which is good for us as a whole. |
| 04:55.36 | indessed | levi: but I believe that multiple languages are good in and of themselves, |
| 04:55.46 | indessed | not only that they're a side effect of a good thing. |
| 04:56.02 | levi-laptop | indessed: But even if they are, there are unfortunate side-effects! |
| 04:56.09 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (~amcnabb@c-67-161-219-228.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:56.17 | indessed | levi: ? |
| 04:56.19 | Maquis | amcnabb: thanks a ton :) |
| 04:56.27 | levi-laptop | indessed: My above example. |
| 04:56.27 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:56.51 | amcnabb | maquis: no problem |
| 04:56.53 | indessed | levi: Sorry, I'm missing something here. |
| 04:57.00 | levi-laptop | indessed: There are a lot of people I can't communicate with. That's unfortunate. |
| 04:57.08 | levi-laptop | Geez, pay attention. :) |
| 04:57.13 | sjansen | levi-laptop: fascist |
| 04:57.26 | levi-laptop | sjansen: commie |
| 04:57.46 | indessed | levi: Okay. Cool. There are a lot of people you can't communicate with. That's unfortunate. |
| 04:57.46 | sjansen | nope |
| 04:57.48 | sjansen | try again |
| 04:58.08 | levi-laptop | sjansen: Not interested in silly labeling games. |
| 04:58.16 | indessed | sjansen: libertarian tree-hugging left-winger! |
| 04:58.23 | sjansen | closer |
| 04:58.26 | indessed | hehehe. |
| 04:58.53 | sjansen | independent libertarian neo-luddite |
| 04:58.55 | indessed | sjansen: bearded suspender-wearing stallman-look-alike unix-user! |
| 04:58.56 | levi-laptop | indessed: Okay then. The communication barrier can be worked around, just as the unfortunate communication barrier of endianness can. |
| 04:59.08 | indessed | levi: Cool. True enough. |
| 04:59.16 | indessed | levi: I totally and entirely agree. |
| 04:59.28 | sjansen | indessed: you're just trying to shut levi-laptop up |
| 04:59.33 | Maquis | levi-laptop: what are the advantages of having to work around it? |
| 04:59.37 | sjansen | levi-laptop: you're wrong |
| 05:00.07 | indessed | sjansen: no, it's just that this whole time he's been saying stuff that's totally orthogonal to what i was talking about |
| 05:00.09 | levi-laptop | Maquis: There aren't, necessarily. But standardizing everything stifles innovation. |
| 05:00.19 | Maquis | levi-laptop: how? |
| 05:00.30 | indessed | so instead of pointing out that it's orthogonal, i'm now just agreeing with the points i agree with. |
| 05:00.54 | levi-laptop | Maquis: You can't come up with something different and better if it conflicts with a standard. |
| 05:01.11 | indessed | levi: Why not? |
| 05:01.13 | sjansen | Orthogonal is an unusual computer language in which your program flow can go sideways. -- http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/orth/ |
| 05:01.29 | levi-laptop | Anyway, all this stuff arose out of a totally different computing environment than exists today. |
| 05:01.43 | Maquis | levi-laptop: and having 2 conflicting standards makes it better? |
| 05:01.55 | levi-laptop | Just as differing languages arose out of a totally different world than we live in today. |
| 05:02.08 | Maquis | yeah... |
| 05:02.26 | Maquis | they arose out ofa world where people thought they could build a big tower to walk up to heaven |
| 05:02.40 | indessed | levi: I really wish you'd stop using that analogy. It's the worst one I've ever heard :-) |
| 05:02.49 | levi-laptop | indessed; Says you. |
| 05:03.28 | indessed | levi: The extent of your defense for it has been "unfortunate things come out of having conflicting standards; unfortunate things come out of having multiple languages". |
| 05:03.56 | levi-laptop | indessed: No, the basis of my comparison is that we're speaking of languages in both cases. |
| 05:04.00 | midnight_bomber | Hi! |
| 05:04.14 | indessed | linefeed characters aren't "languages". |
| 05:04.16 | midnight_bomber | I just, uh, I just uh, wanted to use, the uh, and so he says Evil's OK in by my book what about yours and I go Yeah Baby Yeah! Yeah! I just wanted to uh, wash my hands… |
| 05:04.24 | levi-laptop | indessed: They are part of language. |
| 05:04.34 | indessed | if this discussion was about programming languages I'd agree with your analogy. |
| 05:04.38 | indessed | but it's not, so I don't :-) |
| 05:04.53 | levi-laptop | indessed: But it's a different kind of language! |
| 05:05.13 | midnight_bomber | You'll never prove a thing, copper, I'm just a part time electrician…bad is good, baby! Down with government! |
| 05:05.19 | indessed | Show me one advantage of having different linefeed characters, and I'll show you ten advantages of having different human langauges :-) |
| 05:05.42 | levi-laptop | indessed: You're comparing elements of a language with languages. |
| 05:05.52 | indessed | Ha ha, no, you are! That's my point :-) |
| 05:06.11 | levi-laptop | indessed: You're misunderstanding me, then. |
| 05:06.20 | indessed | Apparently so :-) |
| 05:06.24 | levi-laptop | You want to concentrate on specific points, like endianness or linefeed characters. |
| 05:06.24 | indessed | This is how I understand you: |
| 05:06.42 | levi-laptop | I'm saying those are not things that arose by themselves, but in the context of 'languages' |
| 05:06.49 | indessed | "Having different linefeed characters is like having different human languages." |
| 05:06.52 | levi-laptop | Ways to communicate with the computer. |
| 05:07.10 | levi-laptop | indessed: I'm sorry I wasn't clear, then. |
| 05:07.14 | indessed | "It may be inconvenient, but there are ways around it, and it's a natural result of human creativity and expression." |
| 05:07.20 | indessed | levi: You are forgiven :-) |
| 05:10.16 | levi-laptop | So, to clarify: These annoying differences arose out of different approaches to computer interation description languages. This is because there were several isolated groups working on developing these things. There were no networks at the time, so intercommunication wasn't an issue. |
| 05:10.44 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-67-161-242-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:11.08 | levi-laptop | I think this is similar to natural language development, where isolated groups specialize their interaction according to their needs, culture, and surroundings. |
| 05:11.36 | indessed | Just to clarify: saying things like "Complaining about different conventions like [linefeed differences] is like complaining that people in different countries speak different languages" seems like you're saying something you're not. :-) |
| 05:11.39 | levi-laptop | But the unfortunate thing in both cases is that when the isolated groups are brought together, communication becomes difficult. |
| 05:12.35 | levi-laptop | indessed: I guess there was a lot of context in my head that wasn't shared with you guys. |
| 05:12.46 | indessed | Yeah, you kind of came in in the middle of the conversation :-) |
| 05:12.54 | levi-laptop | But what I just said is what I meant from the beginning. |
| 05:13.10 | indessed | Thanks for the clarification. One small note though, |
| 05:13.47 | indessed | I agree that both arbitrary conventions and human languages come out of isolated groups and can cause communication problems when those groups are brought into contact. |
| 05:14.03 | *** join/#utah fishyfire (~fishyfire@65.105.158.130.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 05:14.19 | indessed | However, I believe if I had a magic wand and could magically change all the arbitrary conventions to use a single convention, that would be "A Good Thing"[tm]. |
| 05:14.39 | indessed | But if I had a magic wand and could magically change all the human languages into a single human language, that would be "A Bad Thing"[tm]. |
| 05:14.51 | indessed | Hence the center of my disapproval at your analogy :-) |
| 05:15.45 | levi-laptop | Okay, I've got a little point of disagreement with the 'arbitrary conventions' thing, but it's mainly due to a difficulty in defining 'arbitrary'. |
| 05:16.40 | levi-laptop | Things that seem arbitrary now may have had good reasons for them in the past. |
| 05:17.02 | levi-laptop | And there has to be some level at which your standardization stops, so innovation can happen outside of it. |
| 05:17.02 | fishyfire | anyone having trouble connecting with the cs labs? |
| 05:17.27 | fishyfire | i can connect but can't get anything to run once there |
| 05:17.43 | indessed | As long as we agree that the three different linefeed standards are, by both of our definitions, "arbitrary" and could be standardized on any of the three and be "A Good Thing"[tm]. |
| 05:18.28 | sjansen | crlf is not equal with cr and lf |
| 05:18.49 | indessed | sjansen: I suppose you might have a small, tiny, (8-bit) point there :-) |
| 05:18.54 | sjansen | the last two are more compact while the first is more logical |
| 05:19.16 | levi-laptop | Well, the reason they were originally different is not arbitrary, so I have trouble calling it arbitrary just because the original reasons have faded in history. |
| 05:19.29 | sjansen | and with that, I'm going to go cry myself to sleep |
| 05:19.35 | indessed | fishyfire: I don't have any problems connecting or running stuff. |
| 05:19.35 | sjansen | ~lart inn2-ssl |
| 05:19.58 | levi-laptop | And I would be happy to have a single 'network line delimiter' or something, but there are market forces and legacy systems to be reckoned with. |
| 05:20.22 | indessed | levi: Which is exactly what I was saying when you stepped into #utah :-) |
| 05:20.27 | levi-laptop | I'm not saying that I wouldn't want more uniformity in things like this, just that it's not all stupid and arbitrary. |
| 05:20.48 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.192.70) |
| 05:21.12 | indessed | So, Maquis, have we put you to sleep already? or at least destroyed your desire to ask questions? |
| 05:21.23 | levi-laptop | indessed: And at that point, I was talking more to Maquis than you. She seemed to not understand the reasons why things are the way they are. |
| 05:22.17 | levi-laptop | All I really wanted to say, originally, was that Stomp was way cool. :) |
| 05:22.18 | indessed | levi: she also seemed to have the same notion as I did, namely that you were saying that it was inherently a good thing to have three different linefeed characters for some reason. |
| 05:22.27 | indessed | Oh, right :-) I forgot about that part. |
| 05:23.57 | levi-laptop | Well, I meant to be saying that three different ways of ending a line were due to a very fertile and fast-growing computing market, which I think was generally a good thing, though some inconveniences arose from it. |
| 05:24.53 | indessed | If your "which" refers to the "very fertile and fast-growing computing market" and not the earlier noun phrase "three different ways of ending a line," I think both Maquis and I are in heart agreement with you :-) |
| 05:25.10 | indessed | *hearty |
| 05:25.28 | indessed | unless Maquis returns from her project-workings-on and tells me otherwise :-) |
| 05:26.23 | levi-laptop | Okay, so we're really all somewhat in agreement. |
| 05:26.41 | fishyfire | so i try starting a console inside of my ssh and it tells me "X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication. konsole: Fatal IO error: client killed" |
| 05:26.50 | indessed | Yeah, I find that's usually how it is. |
| 05:27.06 | indessed | (The "people generally being in agreement" part, not the remote-X stuff dying part.) |
| 05:27.12 | fishyfire | does that make sense to anyone else? |
| 05:27.22 | fishyfire | yeah i understood |
| 05:27.34 | indessed | I'll give it a shot and see if it works for me. |
| 05:27.38 | levi-laptop | fishyfire: So, you ssh'd to a remote box and you want to open a konsole on your local box? |
| 05:27.40 | fishyfire | thanks |
| 05:27.44 | fishyfire | yes |
| 05:27.52 | fishyfire | and it is giving me those errors |
| 05:27.56 | levi-laptop | Oh, you're referring to the CS labs in particular? |
| 05:27.59 | indessed | the real question here is: why on earth?? :-) |
| 05:28.00 | fishyfire | yes |
| 05:28.12 | fishyfire | would i want to do that? |
| 05:28.14 | indessed | yeah. |
| 05:28.20 | *** join/#utah niquil (~niquil@office-nat.singleedge.com) |
| 05:28.28 | indessed | why not open Konsole on your local box and shell in with that? |
| 05:28.38 | indessed | Or *gasp* are you running a non-Free[tm] system!!! |
| 05:28.46 | fishyfire | no i am in mandrake |
| 05:28.57 | levi-laptop | If you use multiple Konsole tabs, there's less typing of 'ssh <hostname>' to do. |
| 05:29.06 | fishyfire | i have a konsole open with my ssh client |
| 05:29.11 | indessed | yeah, but depending on your latency it might be well worth it. |
| 05:29.17 | fishyfire | running inside |
| 05:29.31 | fishyfire | so what i like to do is open a konsole on the ssh'ed box |
| 05:29.41 | fishyfire | and then open kwrite from there to do my programming |
| 05:29.44 | levi-laptop | Depending on your latency, yeah. But it is a reason you might want to do it. |
| 05:30.06 | indessed | it works for me as long as I shell in with the -X flag |
| 05:30.08 | levi-laptop | indessed: You like to find reason to disagree with me, don't you? :) |
| 05:30.30 | indessed | they might have changed the default to not forward X connections |
| 05:30.38 | indessed | levi: funny, I was going to say the same thing about you :-) |
| 05:30.43 | fishyfire | okay i think i misunderstood the question back there a little ways |
| 05:31.03 | fishyfire | i don't want to open a new konsole on my local box, but on the ssh'ed one |
| 05:31.09 | fishyfire | was that clear? |
| 05:31.25 | indessed | levi: please notice how I made a joking remark about why he would want to run konsole over ssh instead of vice-versa, and you disagreed with *me* :-) |
| 05:31.45 | indessed | fishyfire: yup, try: ssh -X username@somecomputer.cs.byu.edu |
| 05:31.54 | indessed | then: konsole |
| 05:31.58 | indessed | should work. |
| 05:32.33 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-67-161-242-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:32.34 | levi-laptop | fishyfire: The -X tells it to do its funky X tunneling & authentication stuff. |
| 05:33.08 | fishyfire | i tried that and got the same error message |
| 05:35.37 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (~von@c-67-177-47-220.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:35.42 | fishyfire | is it working for you? |
| 05:35.55 | levi-laptop | I don't have access to BYU machines anymore. |
| 05:36.15 | fishyfire | oh... ok |
| 05:36.36 | fishyfire | so the -X should fix any changes they made? |
| 05:37.07 | levi-laptop | The -X just sets up X11 forwarding through the secure channel. |
| 05:37.53 | levi-laptop | Try looking at your DISPLAY variable after you ssh -X over. |
| 05:37.57 | indessed | sorry, i'm back |
| 05:38.10 | fishyfire | how would i do that? |
| 05:38.14 | indessed | echo $DISPLAY |
| 05:38.31 | fishyfire | localhost: 10.0 |
| 05:38.45 | indessed | try running xterm |
| 05:38.49 | levi-laptop | Okay, that part got set up properly. |
| 05:38.50 | indessed | do you get the same error message? |
| 05:39.19 | fishyfire | no trying to run xterm fives me a different error |
| 05:39.21 | fishyfire | it says: |
| 05:39.26 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-67-161-242-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:40.03 | fishyfire | "X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication. X connection to localhost:10.0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdown). |
| 05:40.54 | levi-laptop | Hmm. |
| 05:40.59 | levi-laptop | Has this worked before for you? |
| 05:41.04 | fishyfire | yes |
| 05:41.04 | indessed | weird. and you're running mandrake on the computer you're sshing from. |
| 05:41.08 | fishyfire | worked fine just last night |
| 05:41.11 | fishyfire | yes |
| 05:41.22 | levi-laptop | From the same machine and everything? |
| 05:41.23 | indessed | are you on-campus or whatnot? |
| 05:41.37 | fishyfire | same machine as i was working from last night |
| 05:41.43 | fishyfire | i am off-campus |
| 05:41.59 | indessed | total weirdness. ssh should tunnel everything through, so it shouldn't matter if he's natted or anything like that, right? |
| 05:42.16 | indessed | and if it works peachy for me, it can't be anything fishy with the CS computer setup ... |
| 05:42.20 | levi-laptop | Well, it does munge the authentication stuff when it does X tunnelling. |
| 05:42.39 | levi-laptop | I don't know why it might munge it improperly this time, though. |
| 05:42.51 | indessed | levi: nat does, or what? i thought it only did that if it ran over the clear (like xdmcp), not through ssh? |
| 05:43.12 | indessed | fishyfire: what exact CS box are you sshing to? i'll try on that specific one. |
| 05:43.41 | fishyfire | skiing |
| 05:43.52 | levi-laptop | indessed: When you ssh -X, it creates a new authentication key as well as setting your DISPLAY. It checks for that key on the remote end, and if it passes, it uses the real key on the home end. |
| 05:43.53 | fishyfire | and discus |
| 05:43.59 | fishyfire | neither one is working |
| 05:44.30 | fishyfire | Newsome using discus also? |
| 05:44.35 | indessed | levi: right, but that shouldn't be affected by any NATting or any other network issues in-between, right? |
| 05:44.44 | levi-laptop | indessed: I don't think so. |
| 05:44.46 | indessed | levi: I mean, if the ssh connection itself is working fine, it shouldn't affect that part. |
| 05:45.11 | levi-laptop | NAT shouldn't affect it, no. |
| 05:45.12 | indessed | just shelled into skiing. works fine. |
| 05:45.24 | indessed | brought up an xterm successfully. |
| 05:45.24 | fishyfire | konsole works fine? |
| 05:45.28 | fishyfire | hmm |
| 05:45.33 | levi-laptop | I was just wondering if something weird happened to the xauth keys. |
| 05:45.37 | Newsome | Works For Me |
| 05:45.52 | fishyfire | so something is messed up on my machine? |
| 05:45.58 | indessed | yeah, looks like it. |
| 05:46.01 | fishyfire | or with my cs account? |
| 05:46.05 | indessed | or they're specifically blocking you :-) |
| 05:46.11 | indessed | (I'd bet on the former.) |
| 05:46.21 | fishyfire | but could i ssh in if they were blocking me? |
| 05:46.34 | indessed | change any settings on your box since last time you successfully ran konsole remotely? |
| 05:46.48 | levi-laptop | You can turn off X11 tunneling on a per-key basis. |
| 05:46.52 | fishyfire | i think i had to release and renew the dhcp |
| 05:46.56 | levi-laptop | But I don't think that's what's happening. |
| 05:47.20 | fishyfire | but that's a whole other issue |
| 05:47.33 | fishyfire | i got up this morning and my internet wasn't working |
| 05:47.44 | fishyfire | so i released and renewed the dhcp and it worked again |
| 05:48.01 | fishyfire | i don't understand why that is repeatedly happening either |
| 05:48.13 | indessed | have you ever specifically done anything with xauth? (put xauth stuff in your .bashrc or anything like that)? |
| 05:48.18 | indessed | or has it always just "magically worked"? |
| 05:48.26 | Maquis | ~lart life |
| 05:48.33 | fishyfire | i think it has pretty much just worked |
| 05:48.45 | indessed | what a weeeeird problem. |
| 05:48.46 | fishyfire | i don't think i have messed with anything like that |
| 05:49.02 | indessed | is it possible for you to try it from any other machine? |
| 05:49.02 | levi-laptop | Maquis: Life will (probably) get better after the semester is over. :) |
| 05:49.31 | fishyfire | i could try from another (free) operating system on this same machine |
| 05:49.33 | levi-laptop | Maquis: If not immediately after, at least at some point in the future. |
| 05:49.40 | fishyfire | but not another machine... |
| 05:49.48 | levi-laptop | Maquis: My life got WAY better after school. |
| 05:49.57 | Maquis | levi-laptop: yeah... when i'm 25, out of school, and off on my own? |
| 05:50.00 | fishyfire | should i reboot into my other os? |
| 05:50.01 | Maquis | when i'm married?" |
| 05:50.02 | Maquis | when? |
| 05:50.26 | fishyfire | when you have 8 kids running around screaming all needing something at the same time |
| 05:50.27 | fishyfire | then |
| 05:50.32 | indessed | fishyfire: feel free, although no guarantees that'll solve the problem. |
| 05:50.45 | fishyfire | okay i'll be back in a sec in the other os |
| 05:50.49 | indessed | maquis: Not when you're married. That makes your life just as busy as school. |
| 05:51.01 | levi-laptop | Maquis: Out of school and off on your own is when it can start to get good. Don't rush to get married if you don't feel ready for it. :) |
| 05:51.03 | Maquis | i'm not worried about being too busy right now |
| 05:51.23 | Maquis | i'm just tired of a lot of issues |
| 05:51.29 | indessed | out of school + on your own is definitely a good combination. |
| 05:51.42 | levi-laptop | My wife spent her post-college pre-marriage days backpacking in Europe and doing cool stuff like that. |
| 05:51.47 | indessed | tired of a lot of issues might even get better at that point :-) |
| 05:51.55 | indessed | (esp. backpacking in europe.) |
| 05:52.01 | amcnabb | For anyone who wants to groan, I put up a new screenshot on uug.byu.edu. |
| 05:52.18 | levi-laptop | amcnabb: Why, does it feature emacs? |
| 05:52.19 | Maquis | amcnabb: the hurricane one? |
| 05:52.31 | amcnabb | maquis: yes |
| 05:52.35 | amcnabb | levi-laptop: huh? |
| 05:52.50 | levi-laptop | I just thought that might make people here groan. |
| 05:52.59 | amcnabb | :) |
| 05:53.07 | amcnabb | It would. |
| 05:53.16 | Maquis | amcnabb: i saw that earlier today... my reaction was something on the order of "wow... andrew manages to consistently have the most random screenshots ever" |
| 05:53.38 | levi-laptop | I should make a screenshot showing emacs running SLIME connected to a Common Lisp REPL. ;) |
| 05:53.45 | amcnabb | I'm so proud. |
| 05:53.58 | levi-laptop | With Squeak running beside it. |
| 05:54.09 | Newsome | dang. I thought I'd uploaded that screenshot. Wonder if I've still got it. |
| 05:54.21 | levi-laptop | And a web browser open to the Seaside homepage. |
| 05:54.35 | amcnabb | :) |
| 05:54.41 | levi-laptop | And a Dr. Scheme window for good measure. |
| 05:55.00 | Maquis | amcnabb: you're going to have to keep coming up with random things like that |
| 05:55.02 | *** join/#utah fishyfire (~fishyfire@65.105.158.130.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 05:55.30 | fishyfire | nope |
| 05:55.30 | Maquis | random humor (even groaner humor) keeps me alive |
| 05:55.33 | fishyfire | no such luck |
| 05:55.39 | fishyfire | this os didn't work either |
| 05:55.43 | indessed | fishyfire: nuts |
| 05:55.53 | fishyfire | yeah.. |
| 05:55.58 | levi-laptop | fishyfire: It must just hate you. |
| 05:56.07 | indessed | whine to amcnabb. |
| 05:56.08 | fishyfire | probably |
| 05:56.12 | indessed | he gets paid to fix stuff like this ;-) |
| 05:56.29 | fishyfire | so does that mean he isn't doing his job? |
| 05:56.48 | fishyfire | ~lart dumb problems giving me grief when trying to get homework done |
| 05:57.03 | indessed | I think that's definitely what's happening. amcnabb! Somebody can't do what they want to with the CS computers! You're not doing your job! |
| 05:57.13 | fishyfire | lol |
| 05:57.19 | levi-laptop | indessed: For humor value only: http://igwe.vub.ac.be/GodWroteInLisp |
| 05:57.25 | indessed | Just learn how to use vi and then you don't have to forward X :-) |
| 05:57.49 | indessed | Uh oh, next thing you know you're going to find evidence of chiasmus in Lisp! |
| 05:58.03 | levi-laptop | There's even an mp3! |
| 05:58.10 | indessed | how frightening! |
| 05:58.15 | amcnabb | fishyfire: Can they do it with other computers? |
| 05:58.17 | levi-laptop | It's mildly amusing. Apparently a parody of some real song. |
| 05:58.20 | indessed | what language is that? what's .be ? belgium? |
| 05:58.23 | indessed | flemish? |
| 05:58.28 | fishyfire | i did it just last night and it worked fine |
| 05:58.43 | fishyfire | jk about you not doing your job... :) |
| 05:58.58 | amcnabb | Have you tried it on another machine today? |
| 05:59.02 | amcnabb | What if you ssh to localhost? |
| 05:59.10 | fishyfire | can't fix problems that haven't even been brought up |
| 05:59.22 | fishyfire | i haven't tried it from another machine |
| 05:59.35 | fishyfire | just have the one machine at home right now that i can work from |
| 05:59.53 | amcnabb | Try localhost. |
| 05:59.55 | levi-laptop | .be is indeed Belgium. |
| 06:00.09 | fishyfire | what password do you use with that? |
| 06:00.14 | fishyfire | root? user? |
| 06:00.33 | Maquis | ssh mynormalusername@localhost |
| 06:00.41 | fishyfire | thanks |
| 06:00.43 | Maquis | Password: mynormalpassword |
| 06:01.14 | amcnabb | When I enter "mynormalpassword" it says invalid password! |
| 06:01.26 | indessed | maquis: I use that for my password too! |
| 06:01.32 | indessed | what a coincidence! |
| 06:01.57 | Maquis | :) |
| 06:02.04 | levi-laptop | The combination is 1... 2... 3... 4... |
| 06:02.25 | fishyfire | oops..... it won't work from the remote box |
| 06:02.36 | Maquis | fishyfire: what remote box? |
| 06:02.45 | Maquis | oh... wait... |
| 06:03.03 | Maquis | are you sshing into localhost while on localhost? or from the remote box? |
| 06:03.08 | fishyfire | okay i ssh'ed into localhost |
| 06:03.12 | Maquis | ok |
| 06:03.12 | fishyfire | yeah that was the prob |
| 06:03.14 | levi-laptop | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:03.19 | Maquis | now do whatever andrew says to do |
| 06:03.25 | fishyfire | ok... |
| 06:04.54 | amcnabb | So if you ssh -X localhost, can you start your konsole? |
| 06:05.33 | fishyfire | yes |
| 06:06.37 | amcnabb | Which CS machine are you trying it on? |
| 06:06.49 | fishyfire | skiing |
| 06:07.01 | fishyfire | i tried on discus and it didn't work there either |
| 06:07.32 | amcnabb | Are you ca253? |
| 06:07.38 | fishyfire | yes |
| 06:07.53 | amcnabb | You're over-quota. That might not be helping. |
| 06:08.06 | fishyfire | hmm okay |
| 06:08.08 | indessed | hmmm, maybe it can't write the .xauth file |
| 06:08.13 | indessed | darn quotas! |
| 06:08.22 | Maquis | amcnabb: aren't you proud, i wasn't over-quota when they re-instituted quotas!!! |
| 06:08.24 | indessed | why doesn't the cs dept. supply unlimited hard drive space to every student, huh? |
| 06:08.27 | Maquis | )we |
| 06:08.43 | indessed | maquis: i wasn't either, but only because I got an extra 50mb 'cos of cs100 :-) |
| 06:08.45 | Maquis | (we'll briefly ignore certain periods during which the quota didn't exist) |
| 06:08.51 | Maquis | indessed: haha |
| 06:09.00 | Maquis | why do the cs100 students get extra? |
| 06:09.14 | amcnabb | Because they make videos. |
| 06:09.18 | indessed | because of these huge freaking files we have |
| 06:09.19 | amcnabb | For class. |
| 06:09.32 | indessed | sound files, video files, large photoshop files |
| 06:09.43 | indessed | i'm always running over quota because of that stupid class :-P |
| 06:09.55 | indessed | I mean, that Fun, Entertaining, Lively, and Education Class! CS100!! |
| 06:09.57 | indessed | Woohooo! |
| 06:12.04 | levi-laptop | Why are you taking CS100? |
| 06:14.31 | indessed | Scholarship purposes. |
| 06:14.54 | indessed | (i.e. # of credit hours) |
| 06:15.10 | fishyfire | amcnabb: how much over am i? |
| 06:15.20 | fishyfire | or how do i tell how much i need to delete? |
| 06:15.27 | indessed | fishyfire: use the "quota" command |
| 06:15.45 | fishyfire | thanks |
| 06:15.49 | fishyfire | guess i have more to delete |
| 06:16.03 | fishyfire | at 93,952 out of quota of 85000 |
| 06:16.25 | indessed | i'm perpetually over quota. |
| 06:16.39 | levi-laptop | Running out of space tends to make all sorts of programs behave very badly. |
| 06:16.57 | fishyfire | yeah makes sense |
| 06:17.16 | indessed | yeah. I had config files delete themselves when logging into the labs over quota. |
| 06:17.24 | levi-laptop | Back in the days of tiny hard drives, I'd lose my entire desktop configuration sometimes if the drive filled up and I didn't notice. |
| 06:18.14 | levi-laptop | Ahh, those were the days... |
| 06:18.25 | levi-laptop | Now I need to go to sleep. |
| 06:18.29 | levi-laptop | Good night! |
| 06:18.33 | indessed | night |
| 06:18.38 | indessed | i'm also off to bed |
| 06:18.43 | indessed | 'night everyone |
| 06:18.49 | indessed | good luck fishyfire |
| 06:19.26 | Maquis | amcnabb: where's the mozilla cache and the thumbnails from the file explorer? |
| 06:19.53 | Maquis | oh wait... |
| 06:20.06 | Maquis | the mozilla cache is easier to delete from inside mozilla... |
| 06:20.10 | indessed | i delete my cache stuff daily and still end up over quota :-P |
| 06:20.16 | Maquis | which won't help at the moment... |
| 06:20.25 | Maquis | indessed: graphical file explorer? |
| 06:20.30 | indessed | half the time I delete it and still don't end up under quota. |
| 06:20.45 | indessed | depends on which file explorer. i think .thumbnails is the "standard" place nowadays. |
| 06:21.04 | indessed | (I don't use such fancy-shmancy things as graphical file explorers.) |
| 06:21.12 | Maquis | me neither... which is why i'm asking |
| 06:22.02 | indessed | k, i'm really leaving this time |
| 06:22.05 | indessed | cheers everyone :-) |
| 06:22.11 | *** part/#utah indessed (~ross@71-36-72-174.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 06:22.11 | Maquis | gnight indessed |
| 06:22.15 | fishyfire | night |
| 06:27.15 | Maquis | yay for being under quota! |
| 06:27.25 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.192.70) |
| 06:27.27 | fishyfire | amcnabb: it still isn't working |
| 06:27.32 | fishyfire | and i am under quota now |
| 06:27.51 | SpecialK | du -k | sort -n | tail -n 40 |
| 06:28.18 | Maquis | is that the one on amcnabb's website? |
| 06:28.22 | SpecialK | fishyfire: run that command to find your largest files |
| 06:28.35 | Maquis | SpecialK: she's under quota now... :) |
| 06:28.44 | SpecialK | more or less, I recreated what I remembered of it following man pages |
| 06:28.53 | fishyfire | 8 ./extensions/{641d8d09-7dda-4850-8228-ac0ab65e2ac9} |
| 06:28.53 | fishyfire | 8 ./extensions/{972ce4c6-7e08-4474-a285-3208198ce6fd} |
| 06:28.53 | fishyfire | 12 ./US/chrome |
| 06:28.53 | fishyfire | 16 ./chrome |
| 06:28.53 | fishyfire | 28 ./extensions |
| 06:28.54 | fishyfire | 32 ./US |
| 06:28.56 | fishyfire | 1364 . |
| 06:31.20 | SpecialK | 39252 ./.mozilla/Scott/3biv9.slt/Mail/mail.byu.edu |
| 06:31.35 | SpecialK | That right there won't let me log out of CS windows machines |
| 06:31.49 | Maquis | SpecialK: that's something you should fix |
| 06:32.11 | SpecialK | I could back it up at home |
| 06:32.39 | SpecialK | I'd then be forced to wait for a 40mb download |
| 06:36.57 | fishyfire | it works now! |
| 06:36.58 | vontrapp | go to sleep you loons! |
| 06:37.05 | fishyfire | just had to log out and log back in |
| 06:37.13 | Maquis | cool!!! |
| 06:37.43 | vontrapp | not that i would care, just curious |
| 06:38.15 | vontrapp | i got to play pool all night at an end of season ski school party :) |
| 06:43.40 | vontrapp | ummm, i wasn't serious when i said go to bed |
| 06:47.08 | xbmodder-oldlapp | lol |
| 06:50.17 | Maquis | vontrapp: too bad... looks like amcnabb believed you |
| 06:52.28 | vontrapp | :( "Come back, amcnabb... Come back, amcnabb's brother..." |
| 06:53.15 | Maquis | vontrapp: amcnabb's brother is still here |
| 06:53.43 | Maquis | granted, he's in boston, so he probably will be waking up soon... |
| 06:53.46 | Maquis | but... hey... |
| 06:55.06 | vontrapp | wait, he's here, but he's in boston... /me wonders where to get a spacial vortex |
| 07:21.32 | xbmodder-oldlapp | ummm |
| 07:22.56 | xbmodder-oldlapp | This is kinda cool/crap: A girl thinks I like her, I don't and she treats me all wierd now she thinks I like her. The girl I like I am gunna meet after about 8 months. Yay! who wakes up at 4 am? |
| 07:23.11 | xbmodder-oldlapp | i usually sleep at 4 on weekends :) |
| 08:19.39 | *** join/#utah xbmodder-lappy (~xbmodder@adsl-67-119-14-234.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 08:19.46 | xbmodder-lappy | GO Maquis! |
| 12:36.54 | hans | morning |
| 13:11.15 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 13:36.38 | Maquis | hans: mornin |
| 13:40.30 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 13:42.19 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-67-161-242-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:24.00 | hans | I'm drawing a blank here. what's that phase called where you read lots of papers and try to figure out what people have already done in the field of research? |
| 14:24.10 | hans | there's a name with something like "survey" in it I think |
| 14:26.43 | hans | literature survey maybe? |
| 14:37.13 | Maquis | hans: research? |
| 14:38.06 | hans | well research is the term often used for the actual task - the experiments if you're in physics or chemistry for example. |
| 14:38.23 | hans | but before you go out and do the "research" you do library-like research on what has already been done |
| 14:38.25 | Maquis | survey of existing work? |
| 14:38.31 | hans | literature search. I think that's it. |
| 14:38.53 | hans | but I'm not sure. there's a phrase for it though |
| 14:38.59 | hans | that's used pretty much across disciplines |
| 14:40.31 | Maquis | hmmm... |
| 14:40.36 | Maquis | what's he purpose? |
| 14:40.52 | Maquis | (i would usually refer to it as "research" or "googling") :) |
| 14:46.06 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (~von@user-212.kingsley2.fiber.net) |
| 14:47.59 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@firebat.aros.net) |
| 14:51.14 | hans | ~lart vontrapp |
| 14:55.54 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 15:00.19 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 15:05.12 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog@166.70.34.182) |
| 15:15.37 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 15:23.26 | *** join/#utah alphahawk (~alphahawk@70.56.105.158) |
| 15:24.32 | synic | ok, who needs a job programming perl and lives in SLC? |
| 15:24.45 | Jayce^ | don't need a job, and don't live in SLC :) |
| 15:24.49 | Jayce^ | but like the perl part |
| 15:25.00 | Jayce^ | but I'm about to put out a post for the same thing |
| 15:25.28 | synic | business is hoppin' :) |
| 15:25.41 | synic | but we get first dibs :P |
| 15:25.47 | synic | I posted first! |
| 15:26.11 | Jayce^ | we'll probalby offer better pay :) |
| 15:26.19 | Jayce^ | along with some other jobs too |
| 15:26.46 | Jayce^ | synic, don't forget to post to the lists though, plug, nupm, sllug, etc.. |
| 15:27.13 | synic | plug probably isn't going to do us any good, but I'll hit sllug |
| 15:27.33 | *** join/#utah Peregrine (~lamontp@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:27.34 | Jayce^ | dunno, several pluggers that live in SLC, and others that might make the commute |
| 15:28.28 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (~hatchmt@66.239.25.59.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:29.16 | Jayce^ | maybe it'll be worth it for neybar :) |
| 15:30.37 | synic | neybar: yo. |
| 15:31.13 | synic | where is harleypig? I don't care if he knows perl... I just want to work with him :) |
| 15:31.22 | Jayce^ | oh, he knows perl |
| 15:31.26 | Jayce^ | that's his fav |
| 15:31.29 | synic | ah |
| 15:31.39 | Jayce^ | he's doing part time at night right now.. transportation and family issues |
| 15:32.21 | *** part/#utah hatchmt (~hatchmt@66.239.25.59.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:33.17 | goozbach | arch++ |
| 15:35.49 | *** join/#utah markl__ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 15:57.10 | *** join/#utah RyanE (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 15:58.35 | neybar | synic: eh? |
| 15:58.51 | synic | neybar: want to commute for a perl job? |
| 15:58.59 | neybar | depends |
| 15:59.14 | neybar | my commute is pretty sweet right now... |
| 16:01.18 | RyanE | hey -- does anyone know any more info about LS Micro going out of business? I hadn't heard about it until checking their website this morning... http://www.lsmicro.com/ |
| 16:02.22 | hans | sigh |
| 16:02.34 | hans | why is it that no decent computer store can stay open in this valley? |
| 16:02.56 | RyanE | I dunno. They always seemed busy whenever I was in there. |
| 16:03.26 | hans | goozbach: been slacking on your caffeine intake, eh? |
| 16:03.27 | neybar | probably cause they started selling pc-chips motherboards... returns probably killed them. |
| 16:04.15 | RyanE | I know when I had a return issue with them, the return got sent to the manufacturer for repair / replacement, so I'd think they shouldn't take too much of a hit for that. |
| 16:04.42 | levi | Perhaps their margins were just too slim. |
| 16:06.18 | Jayce^ | they've been on their way out for a long time |
| 16:06.37 | Jayce^ | synic, neybar is up in slc right now anyways |
| 16:07.02 | levi | SLC is the place to be! |
| 16:07.13 | hans | ~lart slc |
| 16:07.27 | goozbach | it' not the lack of caffiene |
| 16:07.59 | goozbach | it's that my only net acceee is through my phone |
| 16:08.16 | levi | So, Stomp was really cool. :) |
| 16:08.21 | RyanE | yes it was |
| 16:08.29 | RyanE | levi: were you there last night? |
| 16:08.42 | goozbach | and I didn't see the --more-- flag on irssi |
| 16:08.42 | levi | I was in the very front row. :) |
| 16:08.49 | hans | hehe |
| 16:08.50 | levi | Last night, yes. |
| 16:08.52 | RyanE | I was in the 3rd row, left side. |
| 16:08.53 | hans | mmm, kipper snacks |
| 16:09.10 | goozbach | stomp was in utah???! |
| 16:09.13 | Maquis | ~lart goozbach |
| 16:09.14 | levi | RyanE: My wife and I had the far left pair of seats on the front row. |
| 16:09.15 | RyanE | through the 10th |
| 16:09.21 | RyanE | you were directly in front of me |
| 16:09.26 | synic | Maquis: they still are. |
| 16:09.27 | RyanE | cool |
| 16:09.35 | synic | Maquis: you haven't missed it quite yet. |
| 16:09.41 | Maquis | synic: what still is where? |
| 16:09.47 | RyanE | I think gooz was asking |
| 16:09.49 | RyanE | not maquis |
| 16:09.49 | synic | er... goozbach |
| 16:09.55 | levi | RyanE: Sorry if my head was in your way. Seating at Kingsbury sucks. :) |
| 16:09.57 | goozbach | he thinks i'm you |
| 16:09.58 | Maquis | oh... |
| 16:10.05 | synic | or reads like one |
| 16:10.10 | synic | or is just plain an idiot. |
| 16:10.16 | goozbach | are they honna be there till may? |
| 16:10.27 | goozbach | er gonna |
| 16:10.28 | RyanE | gooz: through the 10th of April |
| 16:10.29 | synic | I think they'll be gone after this weekend. |
| 16:10.29 | Maquis | goozbach: where are you? |
| 16:10.49 | goozbach | I'l miss them then |
| 16:10.50 | Maquis | wow! jayce quit? |
| 16:11.13 | goozbach | I'm in ohio till may |
| 16:11.25 | Maquis | ohio? ick... |
| 16:11.37 | goozbach | WITHOUT INTERNET ACCESS!!! |
| 16:11.44 | Maquis | double-ick |
| 16:11.47 | Maquis | why without internet? |
| 16:11.52 | levi | goozbach: What'd you do to get sent into purgatory like that? |
| 16:11.53 | RyanE | goozbach: the whole state is without internet access? |
| 16:12.05 | *** join/#utah markl__ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:12.08 | goozbach | no, just me |
| 16:12.13 | Maquis | goozbach: why????? |
| 16:12.27 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~jayce@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:12.27 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 16:12.31 | goozbach | no access onsite at DISA |
| 16:12.34 | Maquis | Jayce^: welcome back |
| 16:12.36 | Jayce^ | wow, funky x error |
| 16:12.36 | Maquis | DISA? |
| 16:12.47 | Maquis | Jayce^: what was the error? |
| 16:12.49 | goozbach | and no access at the hotel |
| 16:13.07 | Maquis | goozbach: what's DISA? |
| 16:13.17 | Jayce^ | some strange characters, you know, happy faces and such.. |
| 16:13.29 | goozbach | Defense information sistems agency |
| 16:13.44 | Maquis | and why can't you get switched to a hotel that does do internet? is it gl that schedules the hotel, or the company? |
| 16:13.44 | goozbach | IT fot the military |
| 16:13.51 | goozbach | gl |
| 16:13.52 | Maquis | goozbach: that's at least really cool |
| 16:14.05 | goozbach | and it's prepaid |
| 16:14.20 | goozbach | so I cant switch this week |
| 16:14.24 | Maquis | why'd they put you someplace without internet, then? |
| 16:14.49 | goozbach | hopefully they'll put me in a different place next week |
| 16:15.32 | Maquis | ~hug goozbach |
| 16:15.34 | ibot | ACTION hugs goozbach |
| 16:21.24 | *** join/#utah lukfugl (~lukfugl@host-19.pl107798-3.fiber.net) |
| 16:33.51 | levi | Hmm, this looks interesting: http://perl.plover.com/hop/ |
| 16:34.30 | Jayce^ | mjd |
| 16:34.47 | Jayce^ | he's a very interesting guy |
| 16:35.51 | levi | From the list of topics covered by the book, it sounds like it. |
| 16:36.24 | Jayce^ | I've been to a few presentation by him, had some interesting thoughts on rewriting the hashing modules in perl, and parts of the regex engine |
| 16:36.29 | Jayce^ | a very good presenter |
| 16:36.34 | Jayce^ | strange for a geek of his level |
| 16:40.09 | levi | Eventually, I'm going to have to take a look at Perl again. Maybe I'll wait for Perl 6. |
| 16:40.24 | Jayce^ | quite a new way of thinking about perl there |
| 16:40.32 | Jayce^ | of course you don't have to wait, just use Pugs :) |
| 16:41.25 | levi | Well, maybe I'll look at Haskell first and use Pugs to transition to Perl. I don't really have a lot of time, though, and I'm still working on Common Lisp. |
| 16:43.12 | levi | And I'm not sure if I want to learn OCaml or Haskell first. Both look interesting. |
| 16:50.22 | Jayce^ | synic, looks like perlhoser (Joe Hall) is interested in your position.. |
| 16:52.34 | Peregrine | goozbach: are you not gonna be home weekends? |
| 16:54.56 | Peregrine | OK. So I'm only a wee bit behind (at least not three days :). |
| 16:56.29 | Peregrine | Levi: I don't know anything about OCaml, but Haskell will be pretty cool, I never really liked Lisp enough (what little I did eons ago) to truly learn it. Probably should give a chance though before condeming it. |
| 16:56.52 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog@166.70.34.182) |
| 16:58.02 | levi | Peregrine: I'm liking liking Lisp quite a bit so far. If you want to take another look at it, http://gigamonkeys.com/book is a good place to start. |
| 17:00.37 | levi | It's the most flexible language I've started learning so far. Forth may equal it in flexibility, but I'm not sure. |
| 17:01.42 | levi | But after all my playing around with very dynamic languages, I want to see what strong, static typing has to offer in OCaml or Haskell. |
| 17:12.33 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-67-161-242-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:12.44 | Peregrine | I think Fourth comes very close to the flexibility of Lisp, if not actually hitting the target. I did like Forth better than Lisp for ease of use. |
| 17:14.45 | levi | I haven't actually used forth, but it seems like you have to hold a lot more context (the state of the stack) in your head. |
| 17:15.34 | mrpull | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:15.38 | mrpull | whoops |
| 17:16.39 | levi | Peregrine: Which Lisp did you use, when you were using it? I've found that although they all look superfically alike, the semantics differ quite a bit. |
| 17:22.12 | Peregrine | I don't remember, it was back in the pre-Linux days (as in, before Linus wrote email #1). |
| 17:22.23 | Peregrine | That book looks interesting. I mat have to pick it up. |
| 17:22.49 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 17:23.21 | Peregrine | Back then, I played with Lisp, Forth & Prolog a bit and decided I liked Prolog the best (which, these days, everyone calls Haskell). |
| 17:24.14 | levi | I think that may have been before ANSI Common Lisp, but Scheme was probably around. |
| 17:24.46 | Peregrine | I think you're right. I have never looked at Scheme. |
| 17:28.16 | levi | Some nifty features of Scheme, like lexical scoping, were integrated back into Common Lisp. I'm not sure if other, earlier lisps had them. Though Common Lisp did exist for a while before it was officially standardized, so who knows? |
| 17:33.47 | hans | is Flickr a good thing? Or should I look at some gallery software for my webserver? |
| 17:34.10 | levi | I'd say Flickr is a good thing, but you may or may not want to use it. |
| 17:37.12 | hans | for technical reasons or otherwise? |
| 17:39.23 | levi | Well, if you just want a good way to get photos up, I think Flickr is probably a good choice. I'd keep backups, of course. |
| 17:39.53 | *** join/#utah wps_ (~wps@207.108.169.214) |
| 17:39.59 | hans | yup, that's basically what I want to do |
| 17:40.58 | levi | If you already had some sort of an authentication scheme you wanted to integrate your photo viewing permissions into, it might not be a good choice |
| 17:46.24 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:48.40 | levi | Yo, sjansen. |
| 17:49.07 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, etc. | utwaa.org for Utah windows Admins Anonymous | UUG Elections now open... Give Maquis/TuxGirl/Erin your cheese! |
| 17:49.12 | sjansen | levi: Yo |
| 17:49.50 | lukfugl | Maquis === TuxGirl? That I did not know... |
| 17:50.31 | hans | The sharmahadian |
| 18:07.06 | mrpull | mandriva? sounds like a april fools joke a few days late. |
| 18:07.30 | mrpull | does anyone still use mandrake? |
| 18:07.57 | sjansen | strangely, yes |
| 18:08.02 | sjansen | they even like it |
| 18:08.10 | sjansen | jakea does |
| 18:08.17 | sjansen | neybar did, don't know if he does now |
| 18:08.23 | mrpull | ok. i was being harsh. I tried out mandrake when KDE was a baby. |
| 18:08.32 | mrpull | it was cool (and probably still is) |
| 18:08.42 | sjansen | no it wasn't |
| 18:09.02 | sjansen | it was almost as frustrating as suse and more purple |
| 18:09.37 | mrpull | heheh. I remember thinking the installer was pretty decent (at the time)... I don't' think anaconda was graphical yet |
| 18:10.53 | Maquis | lukfugl: yes |
| 18:17.26 | findlay | Maquis ======================== tuxgirl? |
| 18:20.28 | Maquis | findlay: yup |
| 18:21.32 | findlay | Maquis ============================================== tuxgirl? |
| 18:21.57 | findlay | ~lart me for being retarded |
| 18:24.37 | lukfugl | findlay: I used === instead of == because it's used as a more lax form of equality in some languages |
| 18:25.58 | sjansen | http://www.sxc.hu/browse.phtml?f=view&id=213412 |
| 18:26.16 | lukfugl | because obviously, TuxGirl and Maquis are not the same thing -- they're different alter-egos. But they are related :) |
| 18:28.33 | findlay | Maquis eq tuxgirl? |
| 18:28.36 | findlay | Maquis cmp tuxgirl? |
| 18:29.09 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@207.108.169.214) |
| 18:35.46 | *** part/#utah RyanE (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 18:35.47 | sjansen | clear |
| 18:37.31 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 18:37.40 | findlay | reset |
| 18:42.23 | Maquis | uh oh |
| 18:43.08 | findlay | ~lart midnight_bomber |
| 18:43.53 | midnight_bomber | http://www.geocities.com/crimemonkey/embwbam/media/bomber2.jpg |
| 18:44.17 | midnight_bomber | This could happen to you, baby…this could happen to anybody! |
| 18:53.28 | hans | oh my |
| 18:53.33 | hans | I just got an email. |
| 18:53.34 | hans | I am not receiving emails or able to send. |
| 18:53.48 | hans | (unquote) |
| 18:54.00 | *** join/#utah ToadStule (~stevej@neutralzone.parlant.com) |
| 18:54.08 | sjansen | I say you pretend you never saw it. |
| 18:57.46 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@207.108.169.214) |
| 18:58.39 | lukfugl | lol |
| 18:58.39 | sjansen | What the?! |
| 18:59.11 | hans | !?eht tahW |
| 18:59.25 | Jayce^ | ToadStule, what are you doing here :-p |
| 18:59.29 | sjansen | just found the magic incantation to get ssl working |
| 18:59.30 | Jayce^ | long time no see |
| 18:59.35 | lukfugl | hWtat eh!? |
| 18:59.57 | ToadStule | just, um, i dunno |
| 19:00.02 | Jayce^ | slap it, it's good for it, and you'll feel better |
| 19:01.31 | hans | grant all on cacti.* to cacti@??? identified by 'somepassword'; |
| 19:01.42 | hans | what do I use for ??? if I want to grant access to all hosts? |
| 19:03.17 | lukfugl | * |
| 19:03.20 | lukfugl | I believe |
| 19:03.22 | vontrapp | i think if you just ommit the @ that works |
| 19:03.32 | lukfugl | you have to quote the pieces though |
| 19:03.44 | vontrapp | yeah, like 'cacti'@'foo.com' |
| 19:03.44 | lukfugl | grant all on cacti.* to 'cacti'@'*' ... |
| 19:04.00 | hans | I think you're smoking something |
| 19:04.03 | lukfugl | you may be able to leave off the @ like vontrapp sez |
| 19:04.50 | findlay | ~steal lukfugl|lunch's lunch |
| 19:04.52 | vontrapp | any web page applet type jabber programs out there? |
| 19:05.02 | vontrapp | lukfugl|lunch: where you going? |
| 19:05.49 | vontrapp | uop, guess i'm too late |
| 19:06.00 | vontrapp | hans, want some molé? |
| 19:06.45 | hans | you have mole to bring me? |
| 19:06.59 | Maquis | mole! |
| 19:07.04 | vontrapp | no, you have to come to said resteraunt |
| 19:07.14 | vontrapp | Maquis: it's molé |
| 19:07.33 | Maquis | vontrapp: molé :) |
| 19:07.33 | sjansen | Maquis: fiend, what did the mole people ever do to you? |
| 19:08.06 | hans | leftovers today |
| 19:08.17 | hans | too bad you missed the xcellent sourdough loaf a couple days back. |
| 19:08.24 | vontrapp | !? |
| 19:08.28 | Maquis | sjansen: obviously quite a bit |
| 19:08.43 | vontrapp | why did you not tell me? |
| 19:10.45 | sjansen | vontrapp: obviously because he didn't want to reduce his chances of getting molé |
| 19:11.21 | vontrapp | well, he succeeded in backfiring his plan |
| 19:11.28 | vontrapp | he'll never get molé now |
| 19:11.42 | sjansen | where's the love? |
| 19:12.02 | vontrapp | my sentiments exactly |
| 19:12.28 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@firebat.aros.net) |
| 19:13.30 | vontrapp | i'll decide on the way if needs be |
| 19:17.43 | hans | actually it was because I wanted it all to myself. that was our dinner that day. bread and water. |
| 19:25.55 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog@166.70.34.182) |
| 19:32.33 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 19:35.51 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 19:39.26 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (bradipo@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 19:51.43 | hans | I'm impressed with cacti |
| 19:51.47 | hans | for what it does |
| 19:54.02 | Jayce^ | lives in a desert? |
| 19:54.17 | hans | makes cool graphs |
| 19:57.52 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 19:58.33 | *** part/#utah kpettit (~keith@user-0cet2fu.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 20:02.52 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@byu147137wks.byu.edu) |
| 20:03.06 | levi | Hmm, the lime flavor in this Diet Coke with Lime goes a long way towards masking the artificial sweetener flavor. |
| 20:05.10 | mrpull | cacti is dope. |
| 20:05.16 | sjansen | Lime Diet Coke turned me into a coke drinker. |
| 20:05.22 | mrpull | http://forums.cacti.net/about4160.html was important to me though |
| 20:05.41 | mrpull | check it if you have need 95% on 64 counters |
| 20:11.22 | neybar | I still really don't like the taste of just about anything diet, but lime diet coke is the only one that I can drink. |
| 20:23.12 | lukfugl|lunch | or rather, molé |
| 20:23.48 | lukfugl|w | and sourdough breaaad |
| 20:26.04 | bonez39 | how does one purge one's firefox cache? I can't seem to browse a page at broadvoice.com without firefox filling in information there, that should be cleared... |
| 20:26.35 | lukfugl|w | Edit|Preferences|Privacy |
| 20:31.22 | jakea | oh my |
| 20:31.26 | jakea | I'm winning |
| 20:32.14 | bonez39 | lukfugl|w: not to disbelieve you, but I do that...and yet when I surf to this page again, the fields are still filled in |
| 20:32.45 | lukfugl|w | blame it on the site? :) Try purgin any cookies associated with that site first |
| 20:33.04 | lukfugl|w | e.g. view page source and see if the values are as defaults there |
| 20:36.10 | ToadStule | what you really want to purge is the 'saved form information' on that same Edit|Preferences|Privacy page |
| 20:38.32 | bonez39 | lukfugl|w: ok... |
| 20:45.26 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@71.32.228.156) |
| 20:51.54 | vontrapp | didn't someone just barely have that issue? |
| 20:52.08 | vontrapp | forms filled on broadvoice, that is |
| 20:58.09 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~Scott@128.187.254.128) |
| 20:58.29 | SpecialK | ~lart Maquis |
| 21:04.03 | lukfugl|w | drive-by larting |
| 21:18.29 | brailsmt | that's actually a half decent lart... |
| 21:18.39 | brailsmt | ibot is generally know to have really bad larts... |
| 21:25.03 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@65.37.125.194) |
| 21:30.18 | *** join/#utah xbmodder-treo (~upirc@001-733-620.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 21:30.52 | xbmodder-treo | maquis my cheese? |
| 21:31.32 | xbmodder-treo | give it to her? |
| 21:31.47 | xbmodder-treo | where do I get cheese |
| 21:32.24 | levi | Someone must have moved his cheese. |
| 21:34.11 | Jayce^ | where's the cheese grommit?! |
| 21:37.36 | Newsome | http://engadget.com/entry/1234000753039317/ |
| 21:37.44 | vontrapp | that was a refreshing brain excercies |
| 21:39.13 | vontrapp | deploying well crafted queries to find anomolies |
| 21:42.21 | Jayce^ | Newsome, very cool |
| 21:43.55 | Jayce^ | home centralization |
| 21:45.32 | Newsome | sjansen: Finding a good reason to buy a MiniMac |
| 21:48.07 | *** join/#utah bzob_ (~bzob@nat.myfamilyinc.com) |
| 21:51.16 | *** join/#utah shadoi (~shadoi@zeus.bluehost.com) |
| 21:56.45 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@thelances.net) |
| 21:57.50 | goozbach | gaaaaaaa!!! |
| 21:57.57 | Jayce^ | goooo |
| 21:59.54 | goozbach | i just found out i got outbid on my RG helmet auction |
| 22:00.03 | hans | Red Guard? |
| 22:00.23 | goozbach | royal , but yes |
| 22:01.27 | goozbach | now I dont think I'll have a good costume for next month |
| 22:03.15 | goozbach | and this lack of internet is killing me |
| 22:03.52 | goozbach | ~lart cross country inn |
| 22:04.10 | goozbach | ~praise treo |
| 22:04.12 | ibot | All hail treo! |
| 22:06.42 | Jayce^ | goozbach, you going to try to borrow mikes? |
| 22:12.54 | sjansen | goozbach: Bryan says there's gotta be a starbucks or something. |
| 22:14.44 | levi | sjansen: Starbucks?! What about avoiding the appearance of evil? ;) |
| 22:15.19 | Jayce^ | levi, this is goozbach, he already appears evil.. |
| 22:15.43 | levi | Oh, well, no problem then. |
| 22:15.52 | levi | Is Starbucks wifi free? |
| 22:16.42 | jakea | I like Starbuck on BattleStar Galactica. |
| 22:17.26 | levi | My cousin married a guy named Starbuck. |
| 22:17.37 | goozbach | buhahahah |
| 22:18.24 | levi | He was a freak. Went to jail for dealing drugs. They're divorced now, thank goodness. |
| 22:18.51 | goozbach | the LARGE selection of resturants at this mall nearby almost makes up for the crappy hotel |
| 22:19.44 | goozbach | I'm glad i've got 3 weeks to hit them all |
| 22:19.57 | lukfugl|w | goozbach: where are you and why? |
| 22:20.16 | goozbach | columbus oh |
| 22:20.28 | Jayce^ | at a town w/o a good theater at that |
| 22:20.32 | *** part/#utah ToadStule (~stevej@neutralzone.parlant.com) |
| 22:20.38 | goozbach | and teaching a class |
| 22:20.50 | lukfugl|w | ah, for Gurus? |
| 22:21.21 | goozbach | jayce it's already been requested off for abt 6 months |
| 22:21.36 | goozbach | luk yup |
| 22:21.54 | Jayce^ | goozbach, they'll make it up for you, they promise |
| 22:22.55 | Newsome | lucky goozbach. Is EP3 going to be worth seeing? |
| 22:23.28 | goozbach | theres no way i'd see it the first time without the ff |
| 22:23.52 | goozbach | well the trailer sounded pretty cool |
| 22:24.18 | lukfugl|w | ff? |
| 22:24.20 | Jayce^ | 'sounded'... you hoser |
| 22:24.22 | goozbach | (I left the teater when it started) |
| 22:24.26 | Jayce^ | get over it :) |
| 22:24.42 | goozbach | fanforce |
| 22:24.46 | lukfugl|w | ah :) |
| 22:24.58 | goozbach | boards.theforce.net |
| 22:28.42 | jakea | EP3 :) |
| 22:29.25 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 22:29.48 | bucky | ok.. who's trying to smuggle arsine on to the airliner? |
| 22:30.25 | Newsome | sjansen: Attack of the PineClones |
| 22:31.03 | vontrapp | lol |
| 22:31.14 | lukfugl|w | vontrapp: where's my mole? |
| 22:31.34 | goozbach | molé? |
| 22:31.43 | vontrapp | molé |
| 22:32.24 | vontrapp | that's twice now, at this rate you'll be lucky to ever get some |
| 22:32.28 | jakea | you want to see EP3 |
| 22:33.00 | lukfugl|w | vontrapp: I don't have spiffy keys like you |
| 22:33.01 | vontrapp | or is that hhgttg |
| 22:33.03 | goozbach | now that looks good |
| 22:33.07 | Jayce^ | it does |
| 22:33.12 | vontrapp | lukfugl|w: you using xterm? |
| 22:33.16 | vontrapp | Alt+i |
| 22:33.22 | lukfugl|w | I don't know how to make the é without copy-paste |
| 22:33.32 | lukfugl|w | vontrapp: rxvt |
| 22:33.39 | vontrapp | :( |
| 22:34.23 | goozbach | time for food |
| 22:34.33 | goozbach | mexican |
| 22:34.49 | lukfugl|w | Is the é even correct, though? I was in Mexico two years and always heard it pronounced MOL-e |
| 22:34.52 | lukfugl|w | never saw it written |
| 22:35.41 | vontrapp | hmm, good question, i've seen it molé, and i've probably seen it mole as well, not sure though as the é is what sticks out when i see it |
| 22:35.50 | goozbach | hope that hawt waitress i sesterday will be serving me :) |
| 22:36.12 | Jayce^ | sounds like goozbach's drinking has gotten to his typing |
| 22:36.27 | goozbach | er saw yesterday |
| 22:36.47 | lukfugl|w | "sesterday", v. - to pine for, as in "the waitress I sesterday" |
| 22:36.56 | vontrapp | lol |
| 22:37.29 | goozbach | sup i cnt type well with crappy lag |
| 22:37.56 | lukfugl|w | All my spanish google results lack the accent |
| 22:38.14 | goozbach | aparently |
| 22:38.46 | vontrapp | i also did a search for mol(e|é) a while ago, and mole gave me little furries and molé produced useful results *shrug* |
| 22:39.19 | lukfugl|w | google mole mexicano => lots of recipes in Spanish |
| 22:39.38 | lukfugl|w | google molé mexicano => A few proper names and english pages |
| 22:40.15 | vontrapp | well, my excuse is i never knew spanish |
| 22:40.51 | vontrapp | but it is fun to use thé accent |
| 22:41.17 | Jayce^ | qué coisa |
| 22:41.34 | lukfugl|w | you got an extra letter in there Jayce^ ;) |
| 22:41.36 | goozbach | no accent check wikipedia |
| 22:41.45 | vontrapp | lukfugl|w: do the unicode chars even show up right in rxvt? they don't for me |
| 22:42.28 | goozbach | nor here, but I had blaimed pssh |
| 22:42.36 | lukfugl|w | vontrapp: nope, that's why I see à then © |
| 22:42.55 | vontrapp | ah, you should really run xterm then |
| 22:43.00 | vontrapp | uxterm, to be precise |
| 22:43.06 | lukfugl|w | but if I open a xterm, type Alt-i then past the resulting é, it's obviously and é |
| 22:43.28 | vontrapp | that's because rxvt maims it |
| 22:43.48 | vontrapp | or maybe your point was something different, but i see just a box |
| 22:46.09 | *** join/#utah lukfugl (~lukfugl@host-19.pl107798-3.fiber.net) |
| 22:46.13 | lukfugl | aquà estoy |
| 22:46.16 | lukfugl | in uxterm |
| 22:46.29 | vontrapp | w00t |
| 22:47.11 | Jayce^ | lukfugl, your U in estou looks kinda funny, must be some error :-p |
| 22:52.06 | lukfugl | anyone else in here (aside from vontrapp) know the group pApAs fritAs? |
| 22:56.41 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@pool-68-160-144-239.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:04.58 | bucky | ~tell Jayce^ about u |
| 23:06.52 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 23:07.50 | vontrapp | ~tell bucky about µ |
| 23:08.01 | lukfugl | ~tell me about u |
| 23:08.02 | bucky | about what? |
| 23:08.11 | bucky | who's on second |
| 23:08.13 | vontrapp | ~tell me about u |
| 23:08.20 | vontrapp | oh, that one |
| 23:08.24 | lukfugl | ~tell me about µ |
| 23:43.54 | *** part/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 23:59.31 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
