| 00:01.33 | vontrapp | heh, it's cool to watch the disk throughput increase linearly on a cd burn |
| 00:01.49 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 00:03.05 | vontrapp | or is it linear? |
| 00:04.02 | findlay | maybe it's parabolic |
| 00:04.08 | findlay | or diabolic |
| 00:10.41 | findlay | vontrapp doesn't realize that the diabolic disk usage is just one small outward indication of my diabolical plans to take over his computer |
| 00:11.11 | findlay | today one computer, tomorrow the world |
| 00:13.16 | Maquis | findlay: hahaha |
| 00:13.17 | findlay | all I could say to that was ``lol'' |
| 00:15.10 | findlay | honestly what they must indoctrinate these kids in high school with these days about copyright and the freedom of infromation is alarming |
| 00:15.54 | beandog | Copyright and freedom of information never came up in my high school. |
| 00:17.40 | beandog | Of course, we didnt have computers either. |
| 00:17.48 | Maquis | beandog: oh |
| 00:17.51 | beandog | except Macs. They dont count. |
| 00:18.09 | beandog | Oh wait, yah we did.... I remember playing Solitaire on Windows 3.0 |
| 00:18.26 | beandog | That was a long time ago. |
| 00:20.45 | findlay | like 1930, when I was in high school we had windows 95/98 in 1996-1999 |
| 00:23.24 | Newsome | whoa |
| 00:23.33 | findlay | ~lart Maquis |
| 00:24.48 | Maquis | findlay: ?? |
| 00:24.56 | Maquis | Newsome: yes... i'm a young'un... |
| 00:25.01 | findlay | Maquis: ?? |
| 00:25.13 | Maquis | findlay: why'dya haveta lart me? |
| 00:25.24 | beandog | Maquis is ayoung'un |
| 00:25.31 | beandog | Oh, already said that, doh. |
| 00:25.42 | Maquis | beandog: :) |
| 00:26.12 | beandog | Norcross High. I'll bet you've never heard of it. ;) |
| 00:26.38 | Maquis | nope... but if it wasn't in the seattle area, that doesn't say much |
| 00:26.42 | beandog | Ah well, time to go home. |
| 00:26.45 | findlay | Maquis: because you're too fun to tease |
| 00:30.19 | vontrapp | how do you install from the live cd, anyways? |
| 00:30.36 | findlay | Maquis: when you find out let me know |
| 00:30.46 | Maquis | findlay: hmmm... mmk |
| 00:31.05 | Maquis | people like emcnabb |
| 00:31.14 | Maquis | and apparently, me |
| 00:31.43 | findlay | vontrapp: I don't know, perhaps you could just do 'cp -r / /mnt/hda1' (: |
| 00:32.17 | Maquis | vontrapp: my guess is that you give it different options at mount |
| 00:32.34 | vontrapp | at boot you mean? |
| 00:32.59 | findlay | then too |
| 00:33.03 | findlay | (: |
| 00:33.06 | Maquis | vontrapp: yeah... that would be my guess |
| 00:33.13 | Maquis | sorry... mount was the wrong word |
| 00:42.45 | Newsome | is it possible to see the results before voting? |
| 00:47.34 | Maquis | Newsome: vote for me!!! |
| 00:47.45 | vontrapp | and me! |
| 00:47.53 | sjansen | and goozbach! |
| 00:47.59 | Maquis | Newsome: not technically... |
| 00:48.02 | findlay | and meeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11@@!!! |
| 00:48.06 | Maquis | ~lart sjansen |
| 00:49.01 | Maquis | Newsome: if you vote for either spr or for topher, you're going to have to deal with them complaining that you favored one over the other... |
| 00:49.10 | Newsome | hmm, good point. |
| 00:49.14 | Maquis | so, you should avoid that issue, and vote for me :) |
| 00:49.20 | Newsome | I understand that spr needs more votes, though. |
| 00:49.28 | Maquis | yeah... |
| 00:49.34 | Maquis | if you vote for one of them, you should vote for spr |
| 00:50.01 | Newsome | and if I vote for you, maybe they can get more done while at work... :) |
| 00:50.39 | shadoi | what's the contest? |
| 00:51.02 | sjansen | who to throw rotten tomatoes at |
| 00:51.10 | findlay | we're trying to see who can beat sjansen at chess |
| 00:51.29 | findlay | and Newsome is voting on the handicap weights |
| 00:52.03 | findlay | which will probably give me at least five extra queens |
| 00:52.06 | Newsome | findlay, you want to be webmaster? |
| 00:52.18 | findlay | no, (: |
| 00:52.41 | Newsome | hmm |
| 00:53.35 | findlay | yeah, some people spell it wrong (: |
| 00:54.24 | Newsome | Maquis probably has all the positions in the bag anyway. |
| 00:55.34 | findlay | howcome sjansen's hyperbole is always better than mine? |
| 01:08.10 | sjansen | "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" — Blair Houghton |
| 01:11.48 | Maquis | Newsome: haha |
| 01:12.27 | Maquis | Newsome: i should've mentioned: jake albretson isn't actually running for librarian... |
| 01:12.43 | spr | He's going to win anyways |
| 01:12.43 | Maquis | yay! jamie's in the lead for PR rep! |
| 01:12.50 | Maquis | spr: maybe |
| 01:13.08 | Maquis | he's still down by 1 right now |
| 01:16.21 | sjansen | If I had five extra queens? I might be able to win. Assuming I didn't do something stupid. |
| 01:16.33 | Maquis | sjansen: no... if i had 5 extra queens... |
| 01:16.34 | Maquis | :) |
| 01:17.03 | Maquis | my friend could probably beat you if you had 5 extra queens, though |
| 01:17.13 | Maquis | he took 3rd in nationals in high school... |
| 01:17.18 | sjansen | ~hug Firefox's "block images from" |
| 01:17.20 | ibot | ACTION hugs Firefox's "block images from" |
| 01:18.29 | Maquis | anybody else notice that userfriendly.org has occasionally had inappropriate ads recently? |
| 01:18.30 | neybar | you stirred up quite the hornets nest there sjansen |
| 01:18.39 | sjansen | Did I? Where? |
| 01:18.43 | neybar | UUG |
| 01:19.29 | neybar | I'd have to say it was for the worst though... seems like most everyone wants to start using forums now. :) |
| 01:19.39 | Maquis | ah.. yeah.. |
| 01:19.43 | Maquis | that's all your fault sjansen |
| 01:19.58 | Maquis | neybar: my hope is that it's a very small, yet vocal minority |
| 01:20.13 | neybar | those are the worst kind. |
| 01:20.47 | Maquis | neybar: yes, but a well-done poll can silence them rather quickly |
| 01:20.59 | neybar | one can hope |
| 01:21.18 | sjansen | 1) No PHP based solution will be used if UUG is moving its site to the Plug server. |
| 01:21.26 | neybar | lol |
| 01:21.30 | sjansen | 2) This is PHP's fault. |
| 01:21.45 | sjansen | 3) This is kinda Debian's fault (for listening to PHP developers). |
| 01:23.34 | spr | sjansen, what's up? I thought it could |
| 01:24.53 | spr | or are you just referring to a seperate thing like a forum, not the actual site? |
| 01:25.17 | Maquis | spr: he's referring to the forum issue |
| 01:25.21 | spr | ah |
| 01:25.36 | sjansen | mod_php for Debian demands the prefork, replacing worker |
| 01:26.11 | sjansen | That's because the PHP aren't really interested in supporting Apache2, they think 1.3 is good enough. |
| 01:26.24 | Maquis | even after reading each email on the subject, i still don't get it |
| 01:26.35 | sjansen | I personally will strongly oppose castrating the Plug server just to use PHP. |
| 01:26.49 | neybar | if you don't apt-get the apache-php you can keep the worker model. |
| 01:27.03 | sjansen | What do you mean? |
| 01:27.19 | Maquis | sjansen: can you explain what you mean by the "mod_php for Debian demands the prefork, replacing worker" comment? |
| 01:27.22 | sjansen | The only way I saw was to use PHP as a CGI. |
| 01:27.33 | neybar | nm, I miss-read you last few statements. I am using apache2/mod-perl2 and worker. |
| 01:27.57 | sjansen | Maquis: worker = threaded, prefork = forking |
| 01:28.48 | sjansen | PHP isn't thread safe. The PHP developers just say "it isn't our fault, it's the non-safe libraries we link". |
| 01:28.50 | Maquis | sjansen: so, if you were to add mod_php, you would have to use forking rather than a threads? |
| 01:29.14 | Maquis | is that true of all instances where php is used? or just with debian? |
| 01:29.27 | sjansen | Perl has to deal with similar problems. They just deal with it better/don't think their developers are so mornic they can't watch for problems. |
| 01:29.54 | sjansen | RH just ignores the PHP developers and let's you use whatever engine you want. |
| 01:30.01 | Maquis | ack! |
| 01:30.21 | Maquis | toupper only does one char at a time? |
| 01:30.24 | sjansen | Debian strives to "do things the right way" and "respect the wishes of the developers" so their package hard codes incompatiblity with worker. |
| 01:30.44 | usynic | sjansen, making your own package is not an option? |
| 01:30.53 | sjansen | of course not |
| 01:31.00 | usynic | oh? |
| 01:31.06 | sjansen | This is a volunteer work. I don't want to have to watch for security updates, etc. |
| 01:31.13 | usynic | ah. |
| 01:31.17 | sjansen | Now if the sysadmin does... But I'm not going to ask him to. |
| 01:31.30 | shadoi | Make a patch, and automate a build. :) |
| 01:31.34 | shadoi | I do it all the time. |
| 01:31.45 | neybar | huh, what do you know... I guess my installation of apache2 is running prefork after all. That's no good... |
| 01:35.22 | shadoi | prefork is fine unless you have extreme performance considerations. |
| 01:37.18 | neybar | agreed |
| 01:37.35 | sjansen | it's the principle of the thing |
| 01:37.50 | sjansen | (and a secret desire to be slashdotted) |
| 01:38.02 | vontrapp | what do you use for more packages on ubuntu? |
| 01:38.18 | scott | vontrapp, multiverse/universe |
| 01:38.30 | scott | vontrapp, is that what you mean? |
| 01:38.47 | vontrapp | i guess |
| 01:38.57 | scott | it's on the ubuntu wiki |
| 01:39.09 | scott | installing ubuntu atm so I can't check the url for you |
| 01:39.14 | sjansen | basically, any unstable feed, although universe should be preferred |
| 01:39.59 | vontrapp | ubuntu wiki turned it up in a heartbeat |
| 01:40.08 | sjansen | scott: heh, you're just getting started |
| 01:40.33 | Maquis | scott: that's not nearly the whole gentoo install :) |
| 01:40.38 | Maquis | scott: did you do stage 1? |
| 01:41.44 | usynic | not nice :P |
| 01:41.57 | Maquis | actually, quite nice |
| 01:42.24 | Maquis | it's called a trade |
| 01:42.40 | sjansen | ~laugh at the silly gentoo users |
| 01:42.42 | ibot | HAHAHA! AH-HAHA! the silly gentoo users just cracks me up! |
| 01:42.43 | usynic | ah. very well then. |
| 01:43.05 | neybar | ~lart gentoo |
| 01:43.29 | sjansen | neybar: At least you can run it on NT. |
| 01:43.30 | usynic | heh |
| 01:43.38 | scott | Maquis, I did some stage 3 thing |
| 01:43.58 | Maquis | scott: oh... |
| 01:44.03 | sjansen | you know, sometimes I wonder if TimRiker isnn't sitting at home eagerly waiting to repond to larts personally |
| 01:44.08 | neybar | gentoo is the r0x0rz |
| 01:44.23 | usynic | scott, if you haven't done stage 1 then you haven't waisted enough time |
| 01:44.31 | usynic | scott, and therefore, aren't a "real" ricer. |
| 01:44.39 | scott | but I gave up when grub didn't work and I didn't imagine having the patient to wait for X and gnome and a million other things to compile. |
| 01:44.59 | usynic | hehe :) |
| 01:45.04 | scott | the thing I did like about gentoo was the cool bootup screen :) |
| 01:45.07 | vontrapp | got universe and still no scorched3d |
| 01:45.21 | scott | vontrapp, there's some marillat or something |
| 01:45.43 | sjansen | vontrapp: it's there, I swear (64bit and all) |
| 01:47.15 | vontrapp | nope, it's not there |
| 01:47.52 | vontrapp | where is that? |
| 01:48.15 | usynic | looks like it's not in warty, only in hoary |
| 01:48.36 | vontrapp | so do i just change it to hoary and do an update/upgrade? |
| 01:48.41 | sjansen | vontrapp: You actually got warty working? |
| 01:48.50 | vontrapp | this is not on my laptop |
| 01:48.54 | sjansen | ah |
| 01:48.59 | sjansen | that explains it then |
| 01:49.35 | scott | why are you using warty? |
| 01:49.43 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@209.197.11.63) |
| 01:49.52 | vontrapp | i dunno |
| 01:49.56 | vontrapp | i just got warty is all |
| 01:50.32 | sjansen | scott: Most people don't like to run "experimental" "development" "unstable" distros. |
| 01:50.59 | usynic | but... that was a month or two ago |
| 01:51.14 | sjansen | byronc: on the nose |
| 01:51.26 | sjansen | The good news is that hoary is weeks away from "stable". |
| 01:51.33 | scott | sjansen, warty is going to be released tomorrow; today it's hardly unstable |
| 01:51.44 | byronc | hoary is set for release tomorrow |
| 01:52.03 | sjansen | tomorrow? I hadn't heard; knew it was some time the start of this month |
| 01:52.45 | sjansen | Releasing roughly every six months is some much better than ever other ice age. |
| 01:53.16 | byronc | sjansen: debian has releases? :) |
| 01:53.37 | sjansen | byronc: I hear they had one just before we were born. |
| 01:54.48 | byronc | I guess that's what you get for being born late |
| 01:56.54 | sjansen | So exactly how many version of Arch are there? |
| 01:57.37 | byronc | are there more than three (tla, baz, and bazaar)? |
| 01:57.49 | usynic | 7 |
| 01:57.57 | *** join/#utah mheath (~Michael@c-67-161-213-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:58.59 | usynic | if we're both talking about archlinux, then I'm not kidding. |
| 02:01.01 | usynic | http://archlinux.org/ |
| 02:01.33 | sjansen | nope, Arch the CVS replacement |
| 02:01.43 | usynic | ah, never heard of it. |
| 02:02.04 | sjansen | then you're not down with the hep cats |
| 02:02.17 | sjansen | svn is so, like, for the masses |
| 02:02.38 | usynic | I guess I'm part of the masses then |
| 02:04.16 | byronc | arch is for those who missed out on emacs induced carpal tunnel injuries |
| 02:04.37 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (bradipo@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 02:05.54 | usynic | I'm so awesome at pool... |
| 02:05.57 | sjansen | Anyone here have IPv6 experience? |
| 02:06.19 | sjansen | Bradipo perhaps? |
| 02:12.06 | Maquis | sjansen: if it's a yes or no question, i could pretend... ;) |
| 02:12.35 | Maquis | (well, i could pretend regardless of the question... it just might be more obvious with non-yes-or-no questions |
| 02:13.28 | sjansen | Maquis: Would you be willing to present Plug on your experience using IPv6, specifically on Linux, but generally with a medium to large network? |
| 02:14.08 | scott | ehe |
| 02:14.50 | Maquis | sjansen: ummm... you know... i think i'm busy on plug night for the next few years... |
| 02:15.04 | sjansen | too bad :-( |
| 02:15.08 | Maquis | yeah... |
| 02:15.58 | sjansen | How'z about we meet another day? |
| 02:17.05 | Maquis | ummm... i'm sure i can be horribly busy then too... |
| 02:17.34 | sjansen | We'll let you present over IRC. |
| 02:17.53 | Maquis | ummm... uh... ummm... |
| 02:18.03 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf (~dataw0lf@dataw0lf.org) |
| 02:19.59 | *** join/#utah Lars-UT (~Lars-UT@67.137.22.94) |
| 02:20.04 | vontrapp | er, chicken |
| 02:20.34 | Lars-UT | from chiclets? Ouch |
| 02:20.35 | brailsmt | and once more for good measure |
| 02:20.55 | sjansen | chiclets aren't worth the time, too small |
| 02:21.02 | sjansen | and not enough chocolate |
| 02:21.38 | brailsmt | its ok to swear if you are quoting shakespeare... right? |
| 02:21.43 | brailsmt | :D |
| 02:22.07 | brailsmt | oops too much culture for xbmodder |
| 02:22.11 | brailsmt | :D |
| 02:22.14 | Lars-UT | lol |
| 02:23.33 | byronc | ghosts are always better when they can be /ignore'd |
| 02:23.58 | Maquis|dead | *sniff* |
| 02:25.51 | byronc | ~lart projects that only have documentation on the website |
| 02:26.00 | byronc | ~lart broken project websites |
| 02:26.10 | brailsmt | ibot: your larts suck |
| 02:27.06 | Maquis | ~lart brailsmt |
| 02:27.33 | brailsmt | that was decent... |
| 02:27.53 | sjansen | ~bzfrag Maquis |
| 02:27.55 | ibot | ACTION fries Maquis with a laser |
| 02:28.32 | Maquis | ~go eat worms |
| 02:28.33 | ibot | o/~ nobody likes me, everybody hates me, i guess i'll go eat worms o/~ |
| 02:28.37 | sjansen | Don't cry Maquis. Look at the pretty lights. |
| 02:28.41 | sjansen | ~travolta Maquis |
| 02:28.44 | ibot | ACTION replaces Maquis with several craters in a multi-colored display of superior fire power |
| 02:29.03 | Lars-UT | How many lights are there Maquis? |
| 02:29.19 | brailsmt | travolta?!? |
| 02:29.29 | sjansen | ~scorched3d |
| 02:29.30 | ibot | scorched3d is, like, the super-uber-awesome successor to scorched earth |
| 02:29.34 | brailsmt | my opinion of ibot keeps sinking |
| 02:29.48 | sjansen | ~strangelove brailsmt |
| 02:29.50 | ibot | ACTION destroys half the channel just to get rid of brailsmt |
| 02:29.52 | Maquis | brigham has better larts |
| 02:30.13 | brailsmt | my 5 year old has better larts |
| 02:30.25 | *** join/#utah xbmodder-oldlapp (~xbmodder@adsl-67-119-14-234.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 02:30.29 | *** join/#utah brigham (~brigham@byu074659wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 02:30.36 | *** join/#utah xbmodder (~xbmodder@adsl-67-119-14-234.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 02:30.42 | Maquis | |lart brailsmt |
| 02:30.48 | Maquis | |lart brailsmt |
| 02:30.52 | Maquis | |lart brailsmt |
| 02:31.07 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 02:31.11 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 02:31.15 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 02:31.36 | sjansen | sticks and stones, and /ignoring brigham long ago |
| 02:32.51 | Maquis | sjansen's just a cranky old man who doesn't like nice little bots |
| 02:32.58 | Lars-UT | quit "Could you describe the ruckus, sir?" |
| 02:33.19 | sjansen | ~ruckus Lars-UT |
| 02:36.20 | vontrapp | can i just delete gnome-terminal and link it to uxterm? |
| 02:36.39 | sjansen | depends on how you use gnome-terminal |
| 02:36.48 | byronc | ~lart gnome-terminal for not having any Xresources settings |
| 02:36.48 | vontrapp | i tried to change the terminal to uxterm in the menu, and now it disappeared |
| 02:37.00 | vontrapp | add new item doesn't seem to work either |
| 02:37.09 | Maquis | ack... that was a frighteningly appropriate lart! |
| 02:37.21 | vontrapp | ~redead Maquis |
| 02:37.22 | sjansen | Applications > System Tools > Configuration Editor |
| 02:37.32 | byronc | funny, that's exactly what I was trying to get gnome-terminal to do |
| 02:42.04 | vontrapp | ah, now i got it |
| 02:43.58 | byronc | anyone know how to find all the debian packages built from a source package? |
| 02:44.36 | sjansen | build the package? |
| 02:45.24 | byronc | there must be an easier way :) |
| 02:46.03 | sjansen | haven't been using debian long enough, you'll have to ask a debian head like hans, tensai, or byronc |
| 02:46.08 | sjansen | oh... wait... |
| 02:46.19 | byronc | doh |
| 02:46.44 | byronc | I guess there is always the packages.debian.org method |
| 02:57.49 | *** join/#utah markl_ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:58.00 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 03:20.21 | usynic | spr, hrmm? |
| 03:20.43 | dataw0lf | Didn't Zelda already get screwed up by Nintendo? |
| 03:21.08 | usynic | if you ask me, Zelda has never been screwed up. |
| 03:21.25 | dataw0lf | what about the GameCube version? |
| 03:21.54 | tensai | wind waker? |
| 03:22.04 | dataw0lf | Whatever it was called. |
| 03:22.09 | spr | wind waker great |
| 03:22.31 | spr | I'm actually play minish cap right now. Good, but still seems weird to see "capcom" on the startup screen |
| 03:22.32 | dataw0lf | me beat wind waker with club |
| 03:22.41 | spr | why? the graphics? |
| 03:22.55 | tensai | ugh, ugh. me eat ice cream |
| 03:23.01 | usynic | I loved wind waker. |
| 03:23.19 | tensai | I heard it was good but nobody got it for me for Christmas :( |
| 03:23.45 | usynic | sure, the graphics looked like some anime, but the game was fun. |
| 03:23.45 | dataw0lf | spr: I was just mocking you. Sorry. |
| 03:23.54 | dataw0lf | Exactly. |
| 03:23.58 | dataw0lf | the graphics looked like anime. |
| 03:23.59 | dataw0lf | enough said. |
| 03:24.19 | spr | hmm.. I probably shouldn't mention my anime collection... d'oh |
| 03:24.39 | dataw0lf | I'm just waiting for NWN 2 to come out so I can once again go against my better instincts and dual boot Windows. |
| 03:24.57 | dataw0lf | well, Akira. |
| 03:25.12 | vontrapp | my share of anime is none |
| 03:25.18 | dataw0lf | but I don't really classify a classic like Akira with what Crapan is producing. |
| 03:25.54 | spr | There are the good shows, and the reall really really crappy ones. |
| 03:26.19 | usynic | hey, I'll go against any anime to play zelda... though I like most anime.... |
| 03:26.28 | tensai | miyazaki is a genius |
| 03:26.56 | dataw0lf | this is degenerating into 'Return of the Wannabe Japanese Nerds Part XXXXXIIIII' |
| 03:27.03 | dataw0lf | NOOOooooooo.... |
| 03:27.43 | *** join/#utah mrpull_ (~mrpull@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:27.46 | sjansen | I liked that Wind Waker experimented instead of going down the same realism path as everyone else. That's the Zelda spirit in my book. |
| 03:27.50 | tensai | I quite enjoyed Splinter Cell as well. die terrorists, die. |
| 03:27.52 | usynic | I've never seen an episode of "Cowboy Bepop", so my opinion is still valid to you anime haters. |
| 03:28.43 | dataw0lf | usynic jump on bzflag and tell me what server you're on. |
| 03:29.36 | tensai | dataw0lf: did you ever get your ldap question answered? |
| 03:30.24 | dataw0lf | I figured it out. |
| 03:30.24 | dataw0lf | Thanks though. |
| 03:30.24 | tensai | sure. if you've got any other questions, feel free to ask sjansen |
| 03:30.40 | dataw0lf | hehe. |
| 03:30.50 | sjansen | Assuming I'm even around. |
| 03:31.50 | tensai | he taught an ldap class for my company. it was highly enlightening. I always struggled with ldap before but it makes sense now. |
| 03:31.50 | dataw0lf | I'll inject a tracking device into your neck. |
| 03:31.50 | sjansen | ack! |
| 03:32.33 | dataw0lf | Hey, sjansen, does this rag smell like chloroform to you? |
| 03:32.58 | sjansen | Ha! I've got you know. |
| 03:33.29 | dataw0lf | Feisty, are we? |
| 03:33.30 | sjansen | Eat styrofoam death you fiend! |
| 03:33.46 | dataw0lf | is it the biodegradable kind? |
| 03:34.08 | sjansen | yup |
| 03:34.12 | dataw0lf | mmm, gimme a handful. |
| 03:34.30 | dataw0lf | as you can see, I challenge usynic to bzflag, and he runs like a coward. |
| 03:34.33 | dataw0lf | A COWARD I TELL YOu |
| 03:34.37 | dataw0lf | s/u/U |
| 03:34.40 | dataw0lf | :) |
| 03:40.39 | sjansen | bah |
| 03:46.21 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-67-161-242-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:53.36 | *** topic/#utah by tensai -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, etc. | utwaa.org for Utah windows Admins Anonymous | UUG Elections now open... Vote Maquis/TuxGirl/Erin for cheese head! |
| 03:53.49 | *** join/#utah mheath (~Michael@c-67-161-213-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:54.03 | mrpull_ | hrrrmmm... does the UUG campaign have to spill into #utah |
| 03:54.04 | brailsmt | what! 3 girls? |
| 03:54.12 | brailsmt | wow... |
| 03:54.30 | brailsmt | that the whole female CS student body :D |
| 03:55.09 | LeviHome | Except that they're all the same girl. |
| 03:55.46 | tensai | mrpull_: not much so far, at least aside from the topic I haven't seen anything else |
| 03:56.31 | mrpull_ | a was just a lurker... but I unsubscribed today. |
| 03:56.38 | mrpull_ | s/a/I/ |
| 03:56.47 | tensai | I left over a year ago. I'm sure the reasons were similar |
| 03:56.56 | LeviHome | I left a long time ago. |
| 03:57.41 | LeviHome | But it was because people were making dubious moral judgements of things, and I didn't want anything to do with that part of BYU anymore. |
| 03:57.47 | mrpull_ | there are (were) a lot of clever people on that list. it has gone down hill quickly the last couple months |
| 03:58.32 | mheath | Would people in here be willing to read over a RFC document I have outlining my new software packaging format? |
| 03:58.47 | mheath | Don't have it yet, but I'll have it finished by saturday evening, hopefully. |
| 03:59.21 | LeviHome | I might, if it's not too long. |
| 03:59.36 | mrpull_ | are you open to criticism? |
| 03:59.40 | mheath | Yes. |
| 04:00.11 | mheath | The entire system is designed to be *very* extensible |
| 04:00.11 | mrpull_ | post it to the plug list... they'll beat it up. but it'll be better for it |
| 04:00.26 | mheath | Packagers have complete control over every aspect of everything.. |
| 04:00.27 | *** join/#utah markl_ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 04:01.11 | mrpull_ | mheath: have you seen bitrock installbuilder? |
| 04:01.20 | mheath | No. |
| 04:01.33 | mrpull_ | http://www.bitrock.com/products_installbuilder_overview.html |
| 04:01.59 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~scott@216.126.221.115) |
| 04:02.22 | mrpull_ | it is comercial, but it is crossplatform. |
| 04:02.35 | mrpull_ | perhaps they have some good ideas |
| 04:03.33 | mheath | Programs like that tend to lock you in, at least to some things |
| 04:04.04 | tensai | LeviHome: did you take 460 or 455 with Ammon? |
| 04:05.43 | mheath | While you can make some lower-level decissions that can make it operate differently, the core of XMLPKG lies in an XML metainfo file |
| 04:06.15 | tensai | I expect you'll get a lot of people who'll hate it just because it's XML |
| 04:06.16 | mheath | The metainfo file operates on a variety of keys, which are essentially plugins to the installer |
| 04:06.21 | tensai | ~nudge sjansen |
| 04:07.01 | mheath | To give a very crude example (don't take this too seriously, this is very crude and vague): |
| 04:07.08 | mrpull_ | looking deeper, bitrock is freely available to Open Source projects |
| 04:07.54 | mheath | <if key="system.distro" value="redhat"><if key="system.distro.version" value="9.0"><run key="do.something"/></if></if> |
| 04:08.19 | mheath | Like the general concept? Hate it? |
| 04:10.06 | *** join/#utah markl_ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 04:11.14 | mheath | I'll take that as a "hate it". |
| 04:11.39 | mrpull_ | i'll reserve judgment until I see the big picture |
| 04:11.45 | tensai | I'm not against it just from that, but I don't think I have much to contribute |
| 04:12.49 | mrpull_ | remember, you need to add something to what is already out there to win people over |
| 04:13.52 | mrpull_ | if it is just a wrapper around the package manager I already use, why should I bother? |
| 04:13.58 | mrpull_ | who benefits? |
| 04:14.29 | mheath | The complete extensibility. Meta-packages that are 100% cross platform. Adds features to package managers that don't exist. |
| 04:15.13 | mrpull_ | so your package includes win32, amd64, osx, and solaris binaries when I only really want i386? |
| 04:15.23 | mheath | *meta* packages. |
| 04:15.50 | mheath | Say your packaging software, and rather than sticking a billion download links on your website....all you need is one. |
| 04:16.06 | tensai | just today I decided not to build a .deb package that I could have used because it would have taken a while to remember all the details |
| 04:16.45 | mheath | Also, I'm working on a set of tools that will help you generate custom packages, quickly and easily. |
| 04:18.02 | mheath | And anyway, I'm not too concerned if it gains widespread acceptance. This is the package format that's going to eventually go into a software distro I'm working on. |
| 04:18.50 | mrpull_ | if it is for a custom distro, some of my concerns dont matter |
| 04:18.56 | tensai | what about package conversion tools? is that on the roadmap? rpm2xmlpkg, deb2xmlpkg, etc. |
| 04:19.02 | mheath | Thats the main reason I'm creating it........ |
| 04:19.08 | mheath | tensai, yep. |
| 04:19.20 | mheath | And say you want to create a metapackage, like what I was talking about |
| 04:19.25 | mrpull_ | are you familiar with autopackage? |
| 04:19.29 | mheath | the "one download link" thing |
| 04:19.58 | mheath | just stick all the package formats you want to use in your metapackge in a directory (The .rpm, the .deb, the .tgz, etc) and run a utility. |
| 04:21.22 | mheath | mrpull_, not particularly |
| 04:23.06 | mrpull_ | http://autopackage.org/faq.html#1_4 |
| 04:23.25 | mrpull_ | some of the goals you have mentioned in the past seem in line with autopackages goals |
| 04:24.43 | mheath | mrpull, that plus utter extensibility. Add dependency support to package formats that don't support it....use whatever tools you want, as a package maintainer, rather than autopackage's or whats available on the end system |
| 04:26.17 | mheath | Nothing needs to be hardcoded into the installer or tools. The operation of almost everything is controlled by crossplatform plugins. |
| 04:26.43 | mrpull_ | what is the lowest common denominator? sh? |
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| 04:28.13 | mheath | Uh, the current tools I'm working on use Java. However, I am working (for version 2...) on a truly crossplatform plugin mechanism that will allow other languages to be used for the installer and tools |
| 04:28.35 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 04:28.43 | sjansen | http://images.43things.com/entry/00/00/0c/3141l.jpg |
| 04:30.16 | sjansen | glass homes, rocks... |
| 04:33.17 | mheath | I'll return. I'll have a copy of that document hopefully by Saturday night. |
| 04:33.47 | mheath | mrpull_, the document (and specifically the introduction) will better explain my intentions and motivations for it |
| 04:42.01 | LeviHome | tensai: Never got to those classes, unfortunately. |
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| 05:20.36 | Maquis | vim gurus: i've got a line in my .vimrc that causes problems if i'm in vim rather than gvim... i was wondering if there's any type of if statement i can stick around it so that it's only run if it's being loaded in gvim, and not when it's in vim... |
| 05:22.06 | tensai | LeviHome: I remember he was in my class. thought maybe you were too. |
| 05:23.06 | tensai | Maquis: yes, indeed. there's two ways. best is to use .gvimrc instead of .vimrc |
| 05:23.16 | Maquis | tensai: and if i don't want to have 2 files? |
| 05:23.28 | tensai | slow down. I can't answer that fast. |
| 05:23.35 | Maquis | ok... |
| 05:23.39 | tensai | if has("gui_running") |
| 05:23.46 | tensai | I think. lemme finish checking |
| 05:23.46 | Maquis | ok |
| 05:24.08 | tensai | if has("gui_running") |
| 05:24.08 | tensai | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:24.08 | tensai | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:24.08 | tensai | else |
| 05:24.08 | tensai | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:24.09 | tensai | endif |
| 05:25.02 | Maquis | ah... mk... thanks!! |
| 05:25.28 | tensai | I only recently learned that there was even a .gvimrc |
| 05:25.55 | Maquis | (for some reason, ever since i added a 'set co' and a 'set lines', whenever i use vim in a term, it has killed my term so that i had to run reset and set tty=sane to get it working again |
| 05:27.17 | Maquis | yay!!! |
| 05:27.23 | Maquis | thanks a ton!!!!! it worked!!!! :) |
| 05:28.41 | Maquis | tensai: i did have a gvimrc for a while, but it kept getting things messed up because i'd change a setting in either the .vimrc or the .gvimrc, and not change it in the other... |
| 05:29.16 | tensai | .vimrc is read every time, even when .gvimrc is read |
| 05:29.25 | Maquis | tensai: really? |
| 05:29.26 | tensai | there's no need to be redundant |
| 05:29.31 | Maquis | knowign that could've made things easier... |
| 05:29.34 | tensai | yes |
| 05:30.40 | Maquis | hmmm |
| 05:31.07 | tensai | the order is /etc/vim/vimrc, .vimrc, /etc/vim/gvimrc, .gvimrc |
| 05:31.14 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.192.70) |
| 05:31.34 | Maquis | so, if i have two keys both mapped to escape, only one of them ever actually works for the ctrl-alt-escape key command to close windows... |
| 05:31.56 | Maquis | but they both work as escape for just about everything else |
| 05:32.09 | xbmodder | i got banned from #debian-women |
| 05:32.10 | xbmodder | lol |
| 05:32.49 | Maquis | (people keep complaining that escape isn't escape, and so since i never use caps_lock, i set it so that caps_lock and escape are both escape so that the vim users who haven't remapped don't get overly confused) |
| 05:33.32 | xbmodder | No "Ohh, Xbmodder how could you get banned? Your the greatest, nicest, smartest person I've ever met"s |
| 05:48.52 | LeviHome | xbmodder: Apparently no one is surprised. |
| 05:49.20 | LeviHome | Maquis: I need to remap my capslock to something more useful. |
| 05:49.37 | LeviHome | Maybe I'll make it my meta key, for emacs use! |
| 05:58.25 | xbmodder | a bad joke? |
| 06:01.38 | Maquis | LeviHome: haha |
| 06:19.36 | Maquis | grr... |
| 06:19.42 | Maquis | gmail and ssmtp aren't playing nicely |
| 06:21.49 | LeviHome | xbmodder: No, I do use emacs, and meta is a very useful emacs key. |
| 06:22.02 | LeviHome | Most emacs users remap capslock to control, though. |
| 06:22.40 | xbmodder | what? |
| 06:22.50 | xbmodder | No "Ohh, Xbmodder how could you get banned? Your the greatest, nicest, smartest person I've ever met"s < a bad joke? |
| 06:23.06 | xbmodder | xbmodder.us/mediawiki :) |
| 06:23.12 | LeviHome | Yes, a bad joke. |
| 06:23.26 | xbmodder | my friend has a cool story eh? |
| 06:37.57 | Maquis | ??? |
| 06:38.05 | Maquis | what was the bad joke? |
| 06:38.08 | xbmodder | at xbmodder.us/mediawiki |
| 06:38.15 | xbmodder | don't insult her please |
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| 06:47.07 | scottj | anyone know about declination and right ascension? |
| 06:48.04 | Maquis | scottj: a very tiny bit... |
| 06:48.16 | Maquis | if jakea were here, i'd recommend you to him... but i can see what i can do to help |
| 06:49.20 | scottj | are they essentially like coordinates? can you conver longitude/latitude to them, or am I misunderstanding what they are? |
| 06:50.58 | Maquis | they are kind of like coordinates, but you can't use them (from my understanding) to find a place on the earth... you use them to find stars and such... |
| 06:52.05 | Maquis | and the reason why they are not straight lines is because they follow the meridian in the sky... so, for example, i'm pretty sure that during the course of a night of stargazing, you can keep the declination constant, and only change the right ascension as the stars go across the sky... |
| 06:53.27 | Maquis | there are two ways to mount your telescope |
| 06:54.00 | Maquis | i forget what they're called... but one of them uses a system of altitude and direction, while the other uses right-ascension and declination |
| 06:54.09 | Maquis | scottj: is any of this making sense? |
| 06:54.57 | scottj | yeah, makes sense |
| 06:55.08 | Maquis | if the telescope is mounted to use right-ascension and declination, then it's really easy to track a star or planet across the sky... if it's using altitude and direction, it makes it a lot harder to track, and not nearly as smooth because you have to adjust both directions when tracking... |
| 06:55.11 | scottj | just trying to get xplanet to show the time really big right above provo :) |
| 06:55.24 | Maquis | but altitude and directions make a lot more sense to people |
| 06:55.40 | Maquis | hmmmm.... doesn't sound like any of what i'm saying is actually helpful to you then... |
| 06:55.47 | Maquis | Newsome: what type of telescope? |
| 06:56.39 | Newsome | an old refracting telescope |
| 06:56.43 | Maquis | nice :) |
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| 07:08.54 | Maquis | scottj: you should've told me earlier that it wasn't what you were looking for :) |
| 07:32.04 | scottj | sorry :) |
| 07:33.04 | Maquis | scottj: no prob... |
| 07:33.14 | Maquis | it was interesting to see how much i did and didn't remember... |
| 07:33.23 | Maquis | just probably made things more confusing on some level :) |
| 07:35.29 | scottj | night everyone |
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| 13:41.03 | dw|w | top o the morning to you guys. |
| 13:42.45 | Maquis | morning dw|w |
| 13:42.58 | dw|w | g'morning |
| 13:44.12 | dw|w | stacking up on the caffeine as early as possible |
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| 13:49.47 | brailsmt | does debian not have a package for mplayer? |
| 13:50.26 | brailsmt | i can'tfind anything named mplayer |
| 13:50.44 | brailsmt | so, is debian hiding it, or does it not exist? |
| 13:51.00 | dw|w | there are some (unofficial) at marillat I believe. |
| 13:51.09 | dw|w | However, I usually advise that people just compile their own mplayer. |
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| 14:04.09 | dw|w | sup usynic |
| 14:04.25 | usynic | not much.... getting ready for work |
| 14:04.32 | usynic | ... at my computer |
| 14:04.40 | usynic | <-- geek |
| 14:04.52 | usynic | what about yourself? |
| 14:07.23 | dw|w | at work |
| 14:07.37 | dw|w | <-- played bzflag last night |
| 14:08.36 | usynic | got your butt whooped again? |
| 14:08.48 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@207.141.37.66) |
| 14:09.07 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@jamestkirk.byu.edu) |
| 14:10.08 | dw|w | usynic: pssh.. |
| 14:10.12 | dw|w | of course. |
| 14:10.16 | usynic | hehe |
| 14:11.00 | dw|w | I like the 3 shot, no jump, games. |
| 14:11.07 | dw|w | more strategy. |
| 14:12.47 | usynic | bzflag has quite a bit of strategy |
| 14:31.31 | Maquis | dw|w: 3 shots until? |
| 14:33.00 | dw|w | until you reload. |
| 14:36.01 | Maquis | ah... |
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| 14:53.00 | hans | ~frag Maquis |
| 14:53.03 | ibot | ACTION readies the nuke launcher and fires some rounds at Maquis |
| 14:53.25 | Maquis | ~bzfrag hans |
| 14:53.28 | ibot | ACTION fries hans with a laser |
| 14:55.24 | bonez39 | how does one list all current environment variables? |
| 14:56.26 | hans | set |
| 14:57.25 | Maquis | env |
| 14:57.26 | Maquis | ? |
| 14:57.48 | Maquis | hmm... |
| 14:57.58 | Maquis | hans: what's the difference between set and env? |
| 14:58.33 | bonez39 | ok, set shows the variables... |
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| 14:59.44 | Maquis | looks like set shows more info than env |
| 14:59.58 | dw|w | man env |
| 14:59.59 | bonez39 | I am trying to do something with jpilot.... I issued this: export JPILOT_HOME=/home/deby/jpilot .. all that did was change the variable to that directory, right? it won't create a new installation of jpilot though....right? |
| 14:59.59 | dw|w | man set |
| 15:00.36 | dw|w | bonez39, that's correct. |
| 15:00.41 | Maquis | bonez39: if i'm understanding your quesiton, you're right |
| 15:00.54 | dw|w | all an environmental variable is is something used by the application in question. |
| 15:01.23 | bonez39 | do either of you us jpilot or pilot-link? |
| 15:01.29 | Maquis | not me |
| 15:01.49 | dw|w | Negative. |
| 15:02.25 | dw|w | I just write notes, phone numbers, etc on my hands and arms |
| 15:03.34 | dw|w | I might do a fresh install with some soapy water and a rag later tonight. Depends on how I feel. |
| 15:05.19 | bonez39 | great....I come for answers..and I get stand up comedy....thanks...at least I am laughing....sans answers.. |
| 15:05.41 | Maquis | hmmm... |
| 15:05.47 | Maquis | so i was just boring and unhelpful |
| 15:05.58 | Maquis | while dw|w was interesting and unhelpful... |
| 15:05.59 | bonez39 | Maquis: your responses are always appreciated.... |
| 15:06.06 | bonez39 | of course....;) |
| 15:06.08 | Maquis | bonez39: :) |
| 15:06.39 | Maquis | bonez39: i like your questions |
| 15:06.51 | Maquis | sometimes i can actually answer them :) |
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| 15:14.32 | levi | Good morning. |
| 15:16.01 | dw|w | morning. |
| 15:20.38 | bonez39 | Maquis: you have been very helpful to me.......thus the gratitude...;) |
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| 15:31.04 | hans | "Cardinals set date for secret papal vote" |
| 15:31.17 | hans | I hope the result isn't what's secret |
| 15:31.25 | hans | because that's bound to get out. |
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| 15:41.27 | hans | snicker. http://lwn.net/Articles/130631/ |
| 15:43.09 | levi | Oops! |
| 15:43.42 | hans | that penultimate comment is funny |
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| 15:46.43 | levi | Heh, it's really sad that a version control system has to have another higher-level front end in order to be used by developers. |
| 15:47.01 | levi | (speaking of GNU Arch) |
| 15:47.07 | levi | (and Bazaar) |
| 15:47.48 | hans | arch. shudder. still, if that's what linus decides to go with I bet it matures fairly quickly. |
| 15:48.00 | hans | smae for whichever rcs is chosen |
| 15:49.36 | levi | I dunno how darcs would handle a project the size of the kernel, but it'd be nice to put it on the 'rapid maturity' freight train of linux kernel development. |
| 15:50.01 | hans | now might be a good time to check out the kernel tree in darcs. it's out there |
| 15:50.07 | hans | I've been meaning to do it |
| 15:50.15 | hans | just to see how it performs (or doesn't) |
| 15:51.19 | hans | I just hope mcvoy doesn't back out |
| 15:51.31 | hans | and use that to prove what a nice guy he is |
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| 15:56.28 | xbmodder-oldlapp | ~google some wierd guy dancing website 2005 |
| 16:12.06 | levi | Whoa, funky: http://pugscode.org/ |
| 16:14.46 | Jayce^ | yeah, artuijis wrote it over a weekend |
| 16:15.04 | Jayce^ | very cool way to test the language development |
| 16:16.52 | hans | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:16.55 | hans | er, |
| 16:17.04 | hans | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:17.09 | hans | tack time on the front |
| 16:20.08 | levi | I wonder if Haskell is going to make a transition to mainstream. |
| 16:20.33 | lukfugl | what have you done, Hans!? I've got hundreds of patches flying by on my screen now |
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| 16:36.51 | hans | lukfugl: that's the linux source tree yo |
| 16:37.12 | lukfugl | so why'd you do an open invitation to time it? :) |
| 16:37.51 | hans | you missed the news. http://lwn.net/Articles/130631/ |
| 16:40.01 | hans | is there a prog similar to time that will report the max memory usage, wall time, cpu time? |
| 16:45.44 | brailsmt | that was posted on /. |
| 16:47.47 | mrpull | whoa. bitkeeper os going away? |
| 16:47.56 | mrpull | (for linux kernel) |
| 16:48.41 | hans | brailsmt: sure, but some of us are weaning /. |
| 16:49.36 | brailsmt | the problem is when you start reading the comments... |
| 16:49.49 | hans | brailsmt: not too much harm in that, until you see an interesting link and get drawn into the comments. :) |
| 16:50.01 | mrpull | i'm sure Linus is going to hear a few "I told you so"'s |
| 16:50.03 | brailsmt | hans: not a problem here :) |
| 16:50.13 | hans | I just subscribed to the technocrat feed. we'll see if perens has a good replacement |
| 16:50.35 | hans | mrpull: one of the comments at that LWN link is funny. "Too bad nobody said this would happen earlier" |
| 16:50.45 | mrpull | yeah. I saw that. |
| 16:50.55 | mrpull | it cracked me up. |
| 16:51.24 | mrpull | i'm not a kernel hacker (obviously), but I always thought it odd that they choose BK |
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| 16:53.17 | brailsmt | i mean c'mon 16 bit limit on the number of changes... |
| 16:53.26 | brailsmt | thats ridiculous |
| 16:53.57 | brailsmt | at least the limit is unsigned... :) |
| 16:54.05 | hans | well, mcvoy has claimed over and over that bk was such a hugemungous task that nobody could do it in open source |
| 16:54.15 | brailsmt | otherwise, we would have been here 30K changes earlier |
| 16:54.18 | hans | but using a 16-bit counter, I can see that they're just dolts |
| 16:54.28 | hans | smart people could probably do it in a reasonable amount of time. |
| 16:57.31 | lukfugl | oh my goodness... I didn't realize there was Wierd Al which I hadn't heard... |
| 16:58.16 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:58.27 | lukfugl | dunno |
| 17:00.09 | hans | mexico, probably |
| 17:00.37 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:00.45 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:00.55 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:01.00 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:01.03 | hans | made some delish sourdough bread yesterday |
| 17:01.14 | lukfugl | from "The Much Music Tc Music Album" according to the ID3 tag |
| 17:01.29 | lukfugl | s/Tc/Tv/ |
| 17:01.32 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:01.53 | hans | tensai: it wasn't too sour. just the right natural leaven flavor |
| 17:02.09 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:02.16 | lukfugl | yeah |
| 17:02.28 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:02.36 | lukfugl | it is |
| 17:02.46 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:02.55 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:04.42 | lukfugl | Midnight Star is from "Weird Al Yankovic in 3D" (again, according to the ID3 tag) |
| 17:04.59 | lukfugl | dunno where "I Lost on Jeopardy" is from, since I've got it from the GRatest Hits album |
| 17:05.08 | Jayce^ | in 3d also |
| 17:05.12 | lukfugl | man, my typing sucks today |
| 17:05.29 | jakea | Weird Al :D |
| 17:05.41 | Maquis | so, we just had a guy from m$ research in my cs345 class today |
| 17:05.43 | Maquis | very interesting |
| 17:05.56 | jakea | did you protest? |
| 17:06.12 | Maquis | he was talking about an OS idea that they're working on (not longhorn, but another research one) |
| 17:06.17 | jakea | did you yell "LINUX RULES!" |
| 17:06.19 | Maquis | i gave him some pretty rough questions |
| 17:06.27 | jakea | what did you ask? |
| 17:06.44 | jakea | the other research project they are working on is called "Longwait" |
| 17:07.01 | mrpull | joshc: just recently I saw a post on some popculture site (maybe boing boing) that there are torrents for every dr. demento show |
| 17:07.02 | Maquis | turns out that he failed to mention the fact that all existing programs that load linked libraries (office, etc) all have to be rewritten before they will work on this OS |
| 17:07.35 | Maquis | and he said that "all user code running on the OS is type-safe" |
| 17:08.11 | Maquis | i asked "does that mean that all programs have to be written under the .net platform?" |
| 17:08.20 | Maquis | he said something on the order of "umm... kind of" |
| 17:08.23 | jakea | lol |
| 17:08.36 | jakea | it must all be written in SCO C# |
| 17:08.40 | Maquis | i then muttered something on the order of "*cough* vendor lock-in *cough*" |
| 17:09.44 | Maquis | anyway, it was entertaining... |
| 17:10.24 | Maquis | he said something about bro. roper mentioning that there were some linux zealots (ok he used other words, but i don't remember his wording) in the class... i think he figured out that i was probably one of those |
| 17:11.25 | jakea | lol |
| 17:11.37 | jakea | what is cs345? |
| 17:11.53 | Jayce^ | hehe.... Bro. Roper 'eh? |
| 17:12.02 | Jayce^ | his son is a good friend of mine |
| 17:12.37 | hans | Maquis: maybe, but those questions aren't necessarily linux zealot questions. Even windows programmers would be concerned about rewriting their stuff in .net just to make it run on the new os |
| 17:13.18 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@65.37.125.194) |
| 17:13.42 | brailsmt | anyone who hates reading 300+ lines of undocumented perl code with function names like 'time_to_make_the_donuts', raise your hands |
| 17:13.51 | lukfugl | jakea: Operating Systems :) |
| 17:13.59 | Maquis | hans: true... but i don't know that too many windoze people would be complaining about "vendor lockin" |
| 17:14.17 | hans | that's mostly because the smart ones left windows long ago |
| 17:14.19 | lukfugl | I was fortunate enough to take it from Snell in aa semester where it was linux based |
| 17:14.25 | Maquis | hans: :) |
| 17:14.29 | lukfugl | the majority of the projects were under UML |
| 17:14.46 | Maquis | lukfugl: cs345 is no longer based under anything |
| 17:15.08 | Maquis | a little over half the class is running windows, at least one person is running it under a mac |
| 17:15.12 | Maquis | lukfugl: what? |
| 17:15.25 | lukfugl | brailsmt at 11:13 |
| 17:16.09 | brailsmt | btw, in case you were wondering, time_to_make_the_donuts, determines whether or not a generated file should be updated... |
| 17:16.34 | Maquis | oh... |
| 17:16.40 | brailsmt | i mean time_to_make_the_<generated file> ismn't so hard to think up... |
| 17:17.00 | brailsmt | and it would actually be self-documenting... |
| 17:17.14 | hans | donuts are more fun |
| 17:17.41 | brailsmt | i guess i just don't like reading this code written by someone that doesn't adhere to any sort of consistent coding/formatting/commenting style |
| 17:18.27 | brailsmt | not to mention the fact that I had to argue with him that just because there are no bugs in bugzilla, doesn't mean the project is bug free, except on a very superficial level... |
| 17:18.38 | brailsmt | *sigh* |
| 17:19.41 | hans | sounds like life |
| 17:19.43 | brailsmt | its what happens when a person has never had training on writing software, and then spends 5 years as the only one maintaining/writing an application... |
| 17:19.50 | Maquis | wow! |
| 17:20.11 | Maquis | according to my civ teacher's slides, the polish invasion in WWII was on september 1, 1339 |
| 17:20.18 | Maquis | i didn't know that wwii was that long ago! |
| 17:20.19 | brailsmt | lol |
| 17:27.21 | *** join/#utah jsmith (~jsmith2@64.50.35.114.2O7.net) |
| 17:28.11 | SpecialK | America didn't enter the war for 602 years |
| 17:30.45 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:32.12 | lukfugl | well, though nothing logistically happened until 1942, we probably "entered" the war in December 1941 after Pearl Harbor |
| 17:32.20 | lukfugl | that's not authoritative though, just my guess |
| 17:34.49 | SpecialK | that's pretty much official. |
| 17:35.45 | SpecialK | My dad's the son of Polish immigrants, and he was born March of '41 |
| 17:36.09 | Maquis | this is pretty interesting... |
| 17:36.14 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:36.35 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:36.38 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 17:37.45 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:37.46 | Maquis | "any of you who are megalomaniac out there, never fight a land war in russia. that's your secret for today" ~dr strong |
| 17:38.22 | SpecialK | Maquis still needs to see the Princess Bride. |
| 17:39.00 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:40.05 | SpecialK | quite inconceivable that she could live in happy valley and not have seen it. |
| 17:42.34 | hans | real 43m4.166s |
| 17:42.34 | hans | user 14m45.758s |
| 17:42.34 | hans | sys 2m5.640s |
| 17:42.44 | Maquis | huh? |
| 17:42.56 | hans | darcs get --partial for the linux tree |
| 17:44.38 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 17:45.44 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:46.19 | findlay | there's a IBM LTC in Australia, right? |
| 17:47.13 | Maquis | so, japan attacked pearl harbor in an attempt to keep the US out of the war between japan and china |
| 17:47.41 | lukfugl | smart move :) |
| 17:47.50 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:48.03 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:48.06 | Maquis | this is what our prof says |
| 17:48.36 | findlay | yeah, and you spelled 'perl' wrong |
| 17:48.40 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:48.41 | neybar | "no more rhymes and I mean it" |
| 17:48.42 | lukfugl | any Axis&Allies players out there? :) |
| 17:48.45 | Newsome | What about the invasion of Alaska? |
| 17:49.00 | jsmith | neybar: Would anybody like a peanut? |
| 17:49.31 | lukfugl | one of my favorite tactics as Japan in that game is to try and take Alaska before the US know's what hit 'em |
| 17:49.35 | neybar | lukfugl: I like Axis and Allies, the problem is that I can never get anyone to play it, much less a whole game. I think I've only ever played it to completion once. |
| 17:49.52 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:49.54 | lukfugl | neybar: I've played to completion a few times more, but have the same recruitment problem |
| 17:51.42 | Jayce^ | I used to play it to completion all the time when I was in high school (read no outside cares) |
| 17:52.53 | Jayce^ | joshc, there are a few good reasons why japan attacked, a lot of them were documented in the 1920's, in a book (I forget the name) that actually spelled out almost exactly what happened.. |
| 17:53.02 | lukfugl | me friends and I (also in high school) would plan to start at 8:00pm on a Friday night with tons of snacks, finish about 2 in the morning, then just crash overnight |
| 17:53.08 | Jayce^ | from the authors view of what *would* happen in the next 15 to 20 years |
| 17:53.43 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:55.59 | Jayce^ | actually it was quite good |
| 17:56.10 | Jayce^ | he saw japans rise, and the eventual confrontation.. |
| 17:56.45 | findlay | maybe his name was Hari Seldon |
| 17:57.11 | Jayce^ | analyzed the strengths etc.. |
| 17:57.24 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:57.29 | Jayce^ | Yamamoto actually used him as a reference when preparing for the harbor attack |
| 17:57.43 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:57.46 | Jayce^ | wish I could remember the dar name |
| 17:57.48 | Jayce^ | oh yeah |
| 17:58.02 | dw|w | the reason why Japan attacked Pearl Harbor was to rid themselves (temporarily) of problems with the US Pacific Navy |
| 17:58.05 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:59.01 | Jayce^ | yes, but there were some other options discussed as to how to do it, and how effective it would be |
| 17:59.08 | dw|w | Isoroku (sp?) thought it might buy him 6 or so months. |
| 17:59.26 | Jayce^ | sad thing is Germany pales in comparisin to what russia (stalin) did |
| 17:59.35 | dw|w | which it did. |
| 18:00.10 | findlay | actually Yammomoto really wanted to take out the US carriesr, because Yammamoto himself believed, when not many else at the time did, that the carriers were to become the great strength of naval power |
| 18:00.26 | dw|w | correct. |
| 18:00.27 | Jayce^ | right |
| 18:00.34 | dw|w | But it still crippled our Pacific fleet for the majority of the war. |
| 18:00.40 | findlay | and considered Perl Harbor a failure because the carriers weren't at bay there |
| 18:00.42 | Jayce^ | our admirals where still in the battleship idea |
| 18:00.49 | brailsmt | one, among many, of the reasons japan attacked pearl harbor is because they wanted to take out the entire US Naval presence in the Pacific, that is why they attacked on near a holiday when, according to their intel reports, all the pacific fleet carriers and their escorts where moored for the holidays... |
| 18:01.10 | brailsmt | they actually dealt a very severe blow to our pacific fleet... |
| 18:01.16 | Jayce^ | what's sad, is he won it for us with the attack, not only did he miss the carriers (forcing nimitz and halsey to understand their value).. |
| 18:01.18 | dw|w | Pearl Harbor was a pretty damn good success. |
| 18:01.32 | Jayce^ | but he also passed over the sub/sub yards, which changed out opinion on them also |
| 18:01.57 | brailsmt | fortunately, there was one carrier group out doing exercizes, and they were able to counter attack, hence the battle of wae island... |
| 18:02.09 | Jayce^ | before that we also were only willing to use subs as escorts and scouts, they were the lowest of the low |
| 18:02.28 | Jayce^ | no, wake island was not attacked by carriers |
| 18:02.29 | findlay | the battle of the Coral Sea (I think?) and Midway were the real deciding showdowns in the Pacific navy theater |
| 18:02.38 | findlay | as far as the carriers go |
| 18:02.50 | Jayce^ | coral sea was the next big one, it was a draw, but that was good for us because it stalled their advance |
| 18:02.57 | Jayce^ | so a technical win |
| 18:02.58 | brailsmt | which was the battle shortly after pearl harbor, that is the one i meant... |
| 18:03.04 | brailsmt | i thought it was wake island... |
| 18:03.11 | dw|w | see Tora! Tora! Tora! excellent film. |
| 18:03.16 | brailsmt | midway, destroyed japans navy |
| 18:03.17 | Jayce^ | then midway which crippled them, because of their inability to rebuild |
| 18:03.26 | Jayce^ | and lost all their experienced pilots |
| 18:03.31 | findlay | and read "At Dawn We Slept", a huge book (: |
| 18:03.48 | Jayce^ | Wake island was attacked after pearl harbor, had a small marine contingent there |
| 18:03.59 | brailsmt | up until pearl harbor, carriers were seen as part of a battleships escort fleet, for the most part... |
| 18:04.01 | Jayce^ | they held off well, but finally surrendered (unlike the movie's ending) |
| 18:04.19 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:04.25 | Jayce^ | there was going to be a relief force, led by the carriers, but the admiral at the time called it off en route |
| 18:04.37 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:04.38 | Jayce^ | helping his downfall |
| 18:04.58 | brailsmt | Jayce^: after pearl harbor we launched a counter attack on the japanese fleet off wake island, unless i am terribly mistaken... |
| 18:05.05 | Jayce^ | no, we didn't |
| 18:05.12 | dw|w | doesn't matter. it gave us a good reason to test our nukes. |
| 18:05.26 | brailsmt | dw|w: we didn't have nukes |
| 18:05.38 | Jayce^ | wake was used as a targeting/training ground, because japan left a huge force there, and it wasn't worth it to us |
| 18:05.39 | brailsmt | for another 3 years |
| 18:05.40 | dw|w | I'm talking about when we bombed Japan. |
| 18:05.56 | dw|w | 3 years down the road, people were still steaming about Pearl Harbor. |
| 18:06.07 | Jayce^ | they would stop by on the way to the South pacific, train with some bombing runs, and move along |
| 18:06.10 | brailsmt | i would too... |
| 18:06.17 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:06.24 | dw|w | that's why I said it gave us a good reason to test our nukes. |
| 18:06.32 | Jayce^ | we didn't take it until after the armistice |
| 18:06.44 | brailsmt | dw|w: the test was in a desert... |
| 18:06.54 | brailsmt | :) |
| 18:07.05 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:07.44 | dw|w | I didn't see thousands of japanese in the desert. |
| 18:07.47 | Jayce^ | brailsmt, the battle of wake island was just after pearl harbor, but was a series of landings by Japanese naval forces against a small marine force |
| 18:07.53 | brailsmt | also iirc, there were 4 a-bombs at the time, one was a dud, one was a test, and noone knew if the bombs would actually explode when they were dropped |
| 18:07.54 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:08.46 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:08.51 | dw|w | seriously, though, people have argued that we dropped the nuke partly to warn the Soviets off |
| 18:08.52 | brailsmt | did you know there was an attempt on hitlers life, but because of a strong oak table, he survived? |
| 18:08.52 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:08.55 | brailsmt | :) |
| 18:09.27 | brailsmt | did you know hitler was a pervert? :) |
| 18:09.30 | brailsmt | really he was... |
| 18:09.38 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.45 | dw|w | He was an idiot. |
| 18:09.47 | brailsmt | Eva Braun's life must've sucked |
| 18:09.55 | brailsmt | joshc: no, not gay |
| 18:09.59 | brailsmt | just perverted |
| 18:10.04 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:10.06 | dw|w | If he'd listened to his incredible generals, he 1) wouldn't have declared war on the U.S. 2) attacked Russia |
| 18:10.49 | findlay | brailsmt: I know, I read it in a book that does some psychoanalysis on Hitler |
| 18:10.59 | brailsmt | err... if he had listened he would have done those things, but only after taking britain |
| 18:11.06 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:11.38 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:11.44 | findlay | and exterminating millions of people, mass genocide |
| 18:11.46 | brailsmt | no, his mistake was invading russia before britain was taken... it opened up two fronts and he could sustain two fronts... |
| 18:11.56 | dw|w | Well, he had to attack Russia. |
| 18:11.58 | brailsmt | could not |
| 18:12.02 | dw|w | but he shouldn't have done it so soon. |
| 18:12.02 | brailsmt | no he didn't |
| 18:12.06 | dw|w | Yes, he did. |
| 18:12.16 | dw|w | The Russians were busy bees building up their forces. The Germans knew they were coming. |
| 18:12.17 | brailsmt | not when he did |
| 18:12.21 | dw|w | Plus, the whole Mein Kampf thing. |
| 18:12.29 | dw|w | brailsmt: read my messages correctly. |
| 18:12.42 | dw|w | 'he shouldn't have done it so soon' |
| 18:13.03 | dw|w | The Russians knew, from Mein Kampf, that Hitler wanted a piece. |
| 18:13.08 | brailsmt | read my messages carefully... |
| 18:13.17 | brailsmt | "his mistake was invading russia before britain was taken" |
| 18:13.29 | dw|w | I never debated your message. |
| 18:13.32 | dw|w | You're debating mine. |
| 18:13.40 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:13.44 | brailsmt | anyway, when it is all said and done, i am glad he didn't listen... |
| 18:14.14 | dw|w | oops, lunch time. |
| 18:14.16 | brailsmt | but if he had only taken russia and killed stalin before he was conquered... |
| 18:14.23 | brailsmt | it could have ended a whole lot of the cold war |
| 18:14.23 | Jayce^ | Stalin firmly believed (before the attack) that russia and germany were like 'brothers' and would be a dominant power together |
| 18:14.57 | Jayce^ | that explains part of his paranoid reaction in setting up the soviet bloc afterwards, as a buffer against a new germany |
| 18:15.24 | Jayce^ | russia was attacked (timing wise)for one main reason, oil |
| 18:15.30 | brailsmt | what i always found interesting is the dynamic between the "big three" when they met... |
| 18:15.35 | Jayce^ | hence the heavy push into the ukraine |
| 18:15.43 | brailsmt | the cold war beegan long before wwii was over |
| 18:16.04 | Jayce^ | oh yeah |
| 18:16.43 | brailsmt | lend-lease with russia was as much to keep stalin neutral, as it was anything else |
| 18:17.15 | brailsmt | because there wasa real fear that he would align himself with germany |
| 18:17.33 | Jayce^ | he was allied with germany at first |
| 18:17.44 | Jayce^ | if it wasn't for japan, they would have been a lot closer |
| 18:17.50 | brailsmt | so we offered him arms in turn for his neutrality |
| 18:17.53 | Jayce^ | but hitler always had russia as a goal |
| 18:17.59 | Jayce^ | stalin just didn't believe it |
| 18:18.35 | brailsmt | yup, if germany had been aligned with japan it could have been a soviet/german axis... *shudder* |
| 18:18.49 | brailsmt | at least until either hitler or stalin got tired and conquered the other... |
| 18:19.03 | Jayce^ | and, as anybody who's played axis&allies with mixed countries knows, that's a *very* powerful combo :) |
| 18:19.24 | Jayce^ | they always would wind up fighting based on market beliefs.. |
| 18:19.30 | Jayce^ | extreme right vs extreme left |
| 18:20.23 | brailsmt | gtg |
| 18:20.36 | Jayce^ | yeah, I'm a big interwar buff |
| 18:21.01 | brailsmt | interwar? |
| 18:21.12 | Jayce^ | WWI <-> WWII |
| 18:21.39 | Jayce^ | how WWII was really just a finalization of the first one |
| 18:22.18 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:22.22 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:22.28 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:22.34 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:22.59 | findlay | Versailes (or however you spell it) made a lot of mistakes |
| 18:23.00 | Jayce^ | I wrote a paper in school once that summarized just pointed out that the French created WWII based on their actions in WWI |
| 18:23.05 | Jayce^ | versailles |
| 18:23.06 | findlay | like the league of nations |
| 18:23.11 | findlay | and Ho Chi Min |
| 18:23.31 | findlay | and Yugoslavia |
| 18:23.50 | Jayce^ | French taxation of the banrupt german republic |
| 18:23.59 | Jayce^ | french annexation of german territory |
| 18:24.28 | findlay | did you know that after WWII, the US poured billions into postwar Europe? |
| 18:24.33 | Jayce^ | castration of german culture |
| 18:24.36 | Jayce^ | oh yeah |
| 18:24.38 | findlay | which has never been repaid |
| 18:24.44 | Jayce^ | they did the opposite of what was done in WWI |
| 18:25.19 | brailsmt | the same goes for Japan |
| 18:25.53 | brailsmt | japan is what it is because of the post-wwii money the US dumped into it |
| 18:26.15 | brailsmt | well, and the people are hard working too |
| 18:26.21 | brailsmt | that usually helps... |
| 18:26.42 | Jayce^ | yeah, but building a friend is better than sucking your enemy dry after the war |
| 18:27.17 | brailsmt | and hopefully we have the same results as we got from germany and japan post war efforts |
| 18:28.11 | brailsmt | Jayce^: i agree, did I say something you thought meant i was taking issue with that? the treaty of versailles was a huge mistake |
| 18:28.25 | Jayce^ | brailsmt, no, just expounding |
| 18:28.29 | brailsmt | ok |
| 18:28.35 | brailsmt | *phew* |
| 18:28.53 | Jayce^ | the treaty of versailles led to WWII |
| 18:30.05 | brailsmt | adjusted for inflation we poured something along the lines of trillions of dollars into japan and germany/europe post WWII |
| 18:30.16 | brailsmt | not just billions |
| 18:30.19 | Jayce^ | yeah, the creation of healthy/friendly economies alone was worth it in future business.. |
| 18:31.05 | findlay | that's true, a good way to look at it |
| 18:31.28 | brailsmt | it should also be noted that we are the only nation to ever win a war without laying claim to the countries we conquered... |
| 18:31.50 | brailsmt | and we have done it more than once... |
| 18:32.02 | findlay | both countries have contributed greatly to the modern economy |
| 18:32.16 | findlay | and to technology |
| 18:32.26 | brailsmt | George Washington set the stage, when he declined to be president, and then stepped down after his second term, even though people wanted to be president until he died... |
| 18:32.35 | findlay | and science |
| 18:32.38 | brailsmt | its a part of us :) |
| 18:32.44 | brailsmt | anyway... |
| 18:32.49 | brailsmt | i gotta get back t work... |
| 18:51.56 | *** join/#utah tensai_ (~tensai@199.104.81.99) |
| 18:52.29 | tensai_ | ~lart filesystem corruption |
| 18:55.14 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 18:55.46 | lukfugl | 'lo stuart |
| 18:55.54 | hans | see the bk news |
| 18:58.22 | sjansen | for lo the coming of the sjansen is nigh, and behold verily that he shall herald the coming of the IPv6 |
| 18:58.36 | Jayce^ | oh yeah, sjansen is going to *love* that bk topic |
| 18:58.44 | sjansen | ~bk |
| 18:58.45 | ibot | hmm... bk is see bitkeeper or under a really crappy license |
| 18:59.12 | sjansen | gotta agree with you there, ibot |
| 18:59.14 | Jayce^ | http://kerneltrap.org/node/4966 |
| 18:59.18 | Jayce^ | read that |
| 19:00.19 | sjansen | ha! |
| 19:00.28 | lukfugl | ssh, it's starting! |
| 19:00.39 | Jayce^ | ssh to where? |
| 19:00.40 | hans | you named a host "it's starting" |
| 19:00.41 | hans | ? |
| 19:01.05 | Jayce^ | -bash: ssh,: command not found |
| 19:04.06 | lukfugl | awww |
| 19:04.13 | sjansen | Well... maybe just a couple... |
| 19:04.25 | sjansen | Told you so! Told you so! Neener neener neener! |
| 19:06.35 | brailsmt | i blinked, and I missed it... |
| 19:09.06 | sjansen | ibot: proprietary is <reply> I don't like it when people swear. Please stop. |
| 19:09.07 | ibot | sjansen: okay |
| 19:09.12 | sjansen | ~proprietary |
| 19:09.13 | ibot | I don't like it when people swear. Please stop. |
| 19:13.38 | hans | sjansen: " Now, if only someone had warned that using a proprietary SCM system could you you at the whim of the vendor should they ever decide to unilaterally change the licensing terms. |
| 19:13.42 | hans | Gosh darn it." |
| 19:14.38 | sjansen | I'm assuming you made that up, hans, but it does a wonderful job of capturing my coherence. |
| 19:14.59 | hans | sjansen: it's a comment from lwn.net |
| 19:15.11 | sjansen | url? |
| 19:15.17 | hans | http://lwn.net/Articles/130631/ |
| 19:15.52 | hans | so, I wonder why cups is sending out broadcasts to 172.16.255.255 when the netmask for the interface is /24 |
| 19:16.32 | sjansen | I'm up to 4 version of Arch, btw. Can't wait to find more! |
| 19:17.49 | hans | I get a kick out of bazaar-ng. I didn't know bazaar was old enough to have a ng |
| 19:18.47 | *** join/#utah Lars-UT (~Lars-UT@67.137.22.94) |
| 19:19.50 | lukfugl | hmmm. Just installed bzflag-2.0 -- it doesn't seem to like my dual monitor setup |
| 19:20.01 | Lars-UT | I've decided to buy my patch cable instead of make them. Can anyone suggest a Utah Valley supplier? |
| 19:23.58 | hans | do you run with -window? |
| 19:24.24 | hans | Lars-UT: you can get them most anywhere |
| 19:24.30 | lukfugl | that works |
| 19:24.31 | hans | can I have your crimping tool then? |
| 19:26.10 | brailsmt | no, send me the crimping tool |
| 19:26.25 | lukfugl | sjansen: no, you don't |
| 19:26.27 | hans | sjansen: for bk? |
| 19:26.33 | sjansen | yeah |
| 19:26.34 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@byu147137wks.byu.edu) |
| 19:27.07 | sjansen | brailsmt, hans: if the two of you are going to fight about it, I'm just going to have to take the crimping tool myself, even though I don't need it |
| 19:27.26 | hans | brailsmt can't fight for it properly, he's too far away |
| 19:27.51 | hans | unless UT stands for uptown kansas city |
| 19:30.57 | sjansen | ~advfs |
| 19:31.07 | sjansen | ~AdvFS |
| 19:31.24 | dw|w | Tru64 |
| 19:31.24 | lukfugl | Advertisement File System? |
| 19:32.32 | dw|w | http://h30097.www3.hp.com/unix/advfs.html |
| 19:32.33 | sjansen | Wow. First Tru64 users I've met. Up until now, I've only seen the license plates. |
| 19:32.33 | tensai_ | adventurous file system |
| 19:32.33 | sjansen | file systems I distinctly do not want to be adventurous |
| 19:32.33 | hans | speaking of esoterica, I hear hurd has a livecd now |
| 19:32.38 | dw|w | sjansen: you don't use XFS then I take it. |
| 19:32.40 | tensai_ | heh. I read that as "hurd has a live cow" |
| 19:32.54 | sjansen | nope, no need |
| 19:33.03 | dw|w | agreed. |
| 19:33.16 | sjansen | starting to dislike ext3, but don't trust reiserfs |
| 19:33.22 | dw|w | another agreed. |
| 19:33.54 | dw|w | But I'm not moving from ext3 until something that's actually.. stable.. comes out. |
| 19:33.54 | tensai_ | sjansen: I won't mention that I've spent the last 3 hours running a reiserfsck then |
| 19:34.02 | brailsmt | hans: that was a cheap shot... |
| 19:34.10 | brailsmt | :) |
| 19:34.37 | lukfugl | since Hans' shipping will likely be $0, your 2X doesn't amount to much... ;) |
| 19:34.39 | hans | ok, I'll make a crimper out of a rusty fork. |
| 19:34.47 | tensai_ | but it is the first time I've ever had to, and the raid controller underneath it was dying |
| 19:34.47 | Jayce^ | had a nasty ext3 blowout on a box last night |
| 19:34.51 | hans | and send it to you for 2x shipping |
| 19:35.02 | Jayce^ | only time I had resier go was for the same reason tensai_ |
| 19:35.06 | brailsmt | lukfugl: you miss the point... i will pay 2x shipping to send it to 8ME* |
| 19:35.09 | brailsmt | errr... |
| 19:35.13 | brailsmt | *ME* |
| 19:35.25 | hans | 8ME, is that like minime, but 8x bigger? |
| 19:35.26 | *** join/#utah mheath (~Michael@c-67-161-213-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:35.28 | tensai_ | with it being a mail server, reiser handles the multitudes of small files *much* better |
| 19:35.38 | brailsmt | gah... |
| 19:36.03 | sjansen | gotten love a technical writer that uses servers named "ford" and "marvin" |
| 19:36.17 | tensai_ | ext3's 2GB file limit has bitten me a few times too |
| 19:36.21 | brailsmt | sjansen: has gotten love |
| 19:36.24 | mheath | Speaking of that, that movies coming out soon, isn't it? |
| 19:36.26 | hans | sjansen: we have servers with those names here. but I'm not a technical writer by profession. am I still cool? |
| 19:36.27 | brailsmt | s/:// |
| 19:36.33 | spr | april 29th |
| 19:36.51 | sjansen | hans: you were already cool the day your parents named you |
| 19:36.51 | lukfugl | 3 weeks |
| 19:36.55 | tensai_ | my grandpa's name is Marvin. does that make me cool? |
| 19:37.12 | hans | aw, shucks |
| 19:37.19 | brailsmt | my favorite cartoon character is marvin the martion... does that count? |
| 19:37.20 | hans | are we gonna have a party? |
| 19:37.32 | hans | do you think that one will have lines and stuff? or can we just show up opening day and get tickets? |
| 19:37.41 | lukfugl | brailsmt: only if you learn to spell (or in your case, probably type) martian :) |
| 19:37.43 | hans | martian martian martian |
| 19:37.46 | mheath | I'd at least get them a day or two before |
| 19:37.55 | sjansen | tensai_: has he travelled through time or in circles in a swamp full of living mattresses? |
| 19:38.05 | lukfugl | hans: I plan on getting my tickets as soon as fandango's got'em |
| 19:38.11 | sjansen | pretty sure we can just showup |
| 19:38.24 | mheath | He has to travel in circles for *millions of years* there. Doesn't count otherwise :) |
| 19:38.26 | hans | well check here first eh |
| 19:38.26 | lukfugl | don't want to take any chances :) |
| 19:39.00 | mheath | Gah, talking about Hitchhiker opening... |
| 19:39.01 | sjansen | mheath: some people are just born lucky |
| 19:39.17 | hans | heh, you don't want to take chances missing day 1. I just don't want to take chances in doing the lotr thing for every cool movie that comes along |
| 19:39.21 | sjansen | admit it, wouldn't you be miserable if you weren't? |
| 19:39.30 | mheath | Hahaha, probably. |
| 19:39.36 | Lars-UT | BTW nobody gets my crimping tool. Aside from "pretty much anywhere", you guys have any preferred local stores for patch cable? |
| 19:40.02 | dw|w | I'll tell you if you give me your crimping tool. |
| 19:40.02 | Lars-UT | Anybody like the new Dr Who? |
| 19:40.11 | sjansen | As usual, the BYU bookstore and Compusa are generally best avoided. |
| 19:40.17 | lukfugl | well I'm not standing in line for hours no. I don't think that'll be a problem. However, going opening night would be fun |
| 19:40.24 | Lars-UT | dw|w: no soup for you. |
| 19:40.38 | dw|w | Lars-UT: oh, in that case, I hear CompUSA has some _great_ deals. |
| 19:40.46 | sjansen | lukfugl: don't forget your towel |
| 19:40.51 | lukfugl | I'm bringin a towel at least |
| 19:40.55 | lukfugl | sjansen: yeah :) |
| 19:40.58 | mheath | Yeah, I will too |
| 19:42.07 | mheath | Whats the UTF character usually used to to end a segment? Just null? |
| 19:42.30 | *** join/#utah markl__ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:42.36 | Bradipo | Lars-UT: When was the new Dr Who on? |
| 19:42.38 | Lars-UT | On another sci-fi note: A friend & I will be renting a THX theatre for Revenge of The Sith. Tickets will be 7 bucks. |
| 19:43.04 | Lars-UT | to a select few geeks |
| 19:43.11 | mheath | "THX"? |
| 19:43.12 | Bradipo | Oh. |
| 19:43.14 | Lars-UT | well 203 to be exact. |
| 19:43.17 | lukfugl | Lars-UT: what day? opening? |
| 19:43.27 | Lars-UT | yep midnite. |
| 19:43.33 | dw|w | where at? |
| 19:43.36 | lukfugl | which theater? |
| 19:43.45 | Lars-UT | Stadium Theatres in Payson. |
| 19:43.55 | mheath | Where is Payson? |
| 19:43.59 | Lars-UT | south |
| 19:44.05 | Lars-UT | yet north of Nephi. |
| 19:44.19 | mheath | Lars-UT, could I get a ticket, perhaps? |
| 19:44.29 | lukfugl | a bit south (about 15-20 minutes?) of Provo |
| 19:44.51 | brailsmt | lukfugl: payson is not 15 minutes from provo... |
| 19:44.58 | brailsmt | maybe 10 |
| 19:45.02 | lukfugl | less? ok |
| 19:45.11 | lukfugl | I just knew it was down there, but not how far |
| 19:45.14 | brailsmt | and even less if you speed :) |
| 19:45.20 | mheath | Lars-UT, I also have like......2-5 other people who would be interestd |
| 19:45.21 | lukfugl | I figured spanish fork extended for a bit |
| 19:45.32 | Lars-UT | Send an email with # of tickets to lars.rasmussen@gmail.com if you want a ticket. There should be enough for you and your fellow geeks. |
| 19:45.47 | brailsmt | wrong state |
| 19:45.54 | Lars-UT | We're still designing the tickets. |
| 19:46.16 | brailsmt | when does it open, May 15th? |
| 19:46.25 | mheath | Lars-UT, can I wait until next monday? I'm leaving for california and won't see the other people i know who would be interested for a few days. |
| 19:47.19 | mheath | Wait until monday to give you a #, that is |
| 19:47.20 | dw|w | waitaminute... |
| 19:47.34 | dw|w | mheath, are you aka Elimist? |
| 19:48.01 | Lars-UT | that's fine, I'll reserve the # of tickets if you email me. |
| 19:48.05 | mheath | dw|w, haven't used that name in ages, but yes. Who are you? |
| 19:48.15 | Jayce^ | goozbach, you going to the opening party with everybody? |
| 19:48.16 | dw|w | hahahaha. |
| 19:48.59 | mheath | dw|w, who are you? |
| 19:49.11 | dw|w | |w usually tends to mean 'work' |
| 19:49.14 | dw|w | so it'd be dw |
| 19:49.19 | dw|w | aka dataw0lf |
| 19:49.34 | dw|w | oh, that's funny. |
| 19:49.55 | Lars-UT | Here's a the theatre location: http://tinyurl.com/5347s Showtime is midnight on Thursday, May 19. |
| 19:50.32 | mheath | dw|w, believe me, there are others who would find meeting me on here again to be a lot funnier / a lot more annoying. |
| 19:50.43 | mheath | I've pissed off several people in my day. |
| 19:50.55 | Lars-UT | We haven't officially announced this yet - we're still working on our website & tickets, but I wanted to let you guys know about it. |
| 19:51.00 | dw|w | I wouldn't say you angered them... it was more of you just embarrassing yourself. |
| 19:51.33 | mheath | dw|w, no, you don't know who I'm talking about :) |
| 19:51.50 | Lars-UT | mheath: I'm angry at you right now. |
| 19:51.58 | mheath | Lars-UT, hahaha. |
| 19:52.27 | dw|w | mheath: I'm sure. I do know that alot of people have ridiculed you! muhaha. That's great, I thought you left the internet forever. |
| 19:52.42 | mheath | ....... |
| 19:52.42 | lukfugl | holy brap |
| 19:52.47 | dw|w | it's good to see you back on board though. |
| 19:52.49 | sjansen | mheath: assuming it's just null isn't safe, because it isn't |
| 19:53.03 | lukfugl | has anyone else seen the new Satellite feature of google maps? |
| 19:53.24 | Lars-UT | From 2005-04-01? |
| 19:53.24 | mheath | dw|w, "left the internet forever"? Huh? You thought that because I stoped frequenting #ut2600? |
| 19:53.38 | mheath | sjansen, huh? |
| 19:53.54 | sjansen | <mheath> Whats the UTF character usually used to to end a segment? Just null? |
| 19:54.03 | dw|w | well, that and the site they put up for you, I thought you might've left in pure embarrassment. |
| 19:54.15 | dw|w | I think we had a bet going whether you'd committed suicide or not. But I can't remember. |
| 19:54.15 | levi | sjansen: Good show on leaving the UUG list, btw. :) |
| 19:54.31 | mheath | dw|w, um, what site is this? |
| 19:54.38 | levi | Geez. I can sure feel the love in here. |
| 19:55.52 | dw|w | mheath: I can't remember. I don't pay attention that much. |
| 19:56.04 | dw|w | I just make randomly semi witty comments in that channel. |
| 19:56.05 | sjansen | lukfugl: that's like so two days ago |
| 19:56.08 | brailsmt | in other words, he doesn't want to say :) |
| 19:56.14 | mheath | dw|w, I think your confusing me with someone else. |
| 19:56.21 | dw|w | mheath: I don't think so. |
| 19:56.46 | dw|w | unless at the same time you were in #ut2600 there was another annoying prepubescent named Elimist. |
| 19:56.54 | mheath | In #ut2600, I mainly just lurked, got in a couple arguments (with you, mainly, I belive :D ). Don't remember any website. And don't remember going away angry or anything. |
| 19:57.28 | dw|w | http://qdb.zzq.org/?search,1 |
| 19:57.34 | sjansen | mheath: BTW, the question wasn't clear |
| 19:57.56 | sjansen | Did you mean utf-8? utf-16? perhaps you meant ucs-32? |
| 19:58.36 | *** join/#utah ECS (~ecs@ecs-dell.byu.edu) |
| 19:58.43 | ECS | ~lart Maquis |
| 19:58.46 | mheath | UTF-8 |
| 19:59.15 | dw|w | eh, well, just search for Elimist, you'll get the picture. |
| 19:59.32 | sjansen | hmmm, I've read two confliting statements about utf-8 |
| 20:00.25 | sjansen | One as that utf-8 was designed to be compatible with existing string handling (hence the 8 bit encoding), the other was that nulls may be embedded. |
| 20:00.39 | levi | Hah, sweet! An IBM Developerworks document advocating Scheme: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-highfunc.html?ca=dgr-lnxw07Functions |
| 20:00.41 | mheath | The reason I ask is I'm working on a header for XMLPKG files |
| 20:00.52 | mheath | what I'm thinking of at the moment is something similar to: |
| 20:00.54 | sjansen | All other unicode encodings are unsafe/can contain nulls for sure. |
| 20:01.15 | sjansen | I'd just suggesting using unicode safe/unicode specific handlers. |
| 20:01.21 | mheath | xmlpkg<devider>version1<devider>version2<devider>version3<devider> ... and so on |
| 20:01.29 | mheath | I need something to use for "<devider>' |
| 20:01.37 | dw|w | *divider |
| 20:01.41 | sjansen | ah, the old delmiter problem |
| 20:02.09 | sjansen | If you're using XML, do things the XML way. Don't try to define a new delimter. |
| 20:02.22 | sjansen | make it attributes or wrap it in tags |
| 20:02.27 | mheath | sjansen, its not XML |
| 20:02.35 | mheath | Sorry, I shouldn't have used <>'s. That was just confusing. |
| 20:02.47 | sjansen | actually, the name XMLPKG is more confusing |
| 20:02.53 | dw|w | yeah. |
| 20:02.57 | mheath | It's an acronym. |
| 20:02.57 | levi | You're calling it XMLPKG, but it's not XML? |
| 20:03.04 | mheath | levi, it is. |
| 20:03.06 | dw|w | does the delimiter have to be a single character? |
| 20:03.12 | sjansen | pick a new acronym, they're all contrived anyway |
| 20:03.14 | mheath | Just not this specific spot (the first 10 characters of the header) |
| 20:03.33 | mheath | dw|w, yeah. |
| 20:03.36 | dw|w | you already know exactly how many characters the header is going to be? |
| 20:03.44 | dw|w | then a delimiter should be easy to find. |
| 20:03.57 | mheath | just use the null character? |
| 20:04.09 | sjansen | dw|w: untill someone tries putting chinese in it |
| 20:04.10 | dw|w | I wouldn't use NULL. |
| 20:04.23 | mheath | dw|w, well, the first couple of characters I do know. |
| 20:04.31 | dw|w | what about the others? |
| 20:04.32 | mheath | Thats just "xmlpkg" and the package format version |
| 20:04.44 | dw|w | are you going to have any commas in the versions? |
| 20:04.48 | dw|w | or |'s? |
| 20:04.50 | mheath | After that comes a number telling it the length of the next segment |
| 20:04.52 | dw|w | or `'s? |
| 20:05.07 | sjansen | so if everything else is xml, why not make the header xml |
| 20:05.09 | mheath | dw|w, the version is just 3 seperate numbers. |
| 20:05.24 | dw|w | if it's just 3 separate numbers use a comma. |
| 20:05.25 | sjansen | that's what <?xml ?> and other processing directives are for |
| 20:06.28 | sjansen | dw|w: commie european! the one true integer sperator is the period! |
| 20:06.38 | sjansen | and if you call it a full stop I'll have to slap you! |
| 20:06.41 | mheath | sjansen, well, the name XMLPKG isn't perfect because while the "default" builtin system uses an XML metainfo file, with plugins you can do anything. |
| 20:07.19 | dw|w | sjansen: I am a commie. And a European. Please send money. |
| 20:07.25 | mheath | Basically, the format of the file at the moment is: header, then instruction handler key ID, then instructions, then data. |
| 20:07.52 | mheath | (I don't know if you were around when I was discussing keys....) |
| 20:08.08 | mheath | Bascically, the instructions are handed to the instruction handler key |
| 20:08.46 | sjansen | mheath: if you insiste on a semi-binary header, check out the PNG header format |
| 20:08.56 | sjansen | very cool |
| 20:09.14 | mheath | While you can do anything here, its intended for you to tell the system what your package is compatable with (so it can exit before doing long operations if it isn't compatible) and to handle the data in the data section |
| 20:09.38 | dw|w | PNG format.. psh.. it's so chunky! |
| 20:09.40 | dw|w | ;) |
| 20:09.46 | sjansen | heh |
| 20:10.02 | dw|w | sorry, bad joke. |
| 20:10.40 | mheath | Basically, in english, "This package is a metapackage for Slackware, Debian, and Redhat systems.......unpack the data section by unbzip2ing it and untarring it, then parse metainfo.xml in it" |
| 20:11.21 | mheath | While the "preffered" main instruction handler key is an XML instruction parser, you could use anything. |
| 20:12.27 | dw|w | a 'metapackage'? a generic wrapper or something? |
| 20:12.56 | mheath | dw|w, yes. This package format supports binary, source, and meta packages. |
| 20:12.56 | mheath | And, of course, blends of the two. |
| 20:12.57 | mheath | *three |
| 20:13.48 | mheath | IE, I could make a binary package for Slackware Linux that only contains the Slackware Linux data within it, but is also capable of fetching the correct package for other operating systems or distros if someone tries to install it on them |
| 20:14.58 | *** part/#utah joshc (~joshc@65.37.125.194) |
| 20:15.39 | sjansen | the world doesn't really need another package format |
| 20:15.44 | sjansen | what it needs is another scm |
| 20:16.46 | sjansen | maybe based on Arch |
| 20:16.47 | mheath | sjansen, this isn't necessarily for the world. |
| 20:17.22 | mheath | Though I've designed it to fill every design flaw that users complain about frequently for other package formats. |
| 20:17.50 | mheath | It's eventually going to be the package format for a Linux software dsitrobution I plan to work on. |
| 20:18.57 | mheath | Already have worked on, actually. Put that on hold because I was getting fed up with package management.] |
| 20:19.39 | sjansen | the world definetly needs another distro |
| 20:19.55 | dw|w | Tru65! |
| 20:19.56 | levi | The world needs more of everything, because more is better! |
| 20:20.32 | ECS | better is better!! |
| 20:20.32 | mheath | sjansen, this one is going to have some very nice, unique features. |
| 20:20.41 | sjansen | VMS -> WNT -> XNU |
| 20:20.48 | sjansen | It could be Gnu based! |
| 20:21.02 | mheath | It is. |
| 20:21.07 | mheath | GNU/Linux.] |
| 20:21.35 | sjansen | oops |
| 20:21.43 | sjansen | VMS -> WNT -> XOU |
| 20:21.45 | dw|w | SysV or BSD? that's the real question. |
| 20:22.19 | mheath | Anyway, I've got to take off. Picking up my brother from the airport. |
| 20:22.20 | sjansen | hmm, XOU, maybe it's based on Darwin/Mac OS X |
| 20:22.40 | mheath | As I said last night, I'll have the RFC for XMLPKG's format finished by saturday or sunday evening. |
| 20:22.47 | mheath | You can read it then. |
| 20:23.13 | dw|w | that kid always tries so hard. that's why it's even funnier when he fails miserably. |
| 20:24.28 | sjansen | trying hard is a good trait, ignoring the advice of other's generally isn't |
| 20:25.08 | dw|w | he's more of the kind of person who's like 'Look at me, I'm special!!!' but never follows up on it. |
| 20:26.16 | dw|w | I think it's just a general problem with the operating system. |
| 20:28.48 | sjansen | My OS has a pretty good definition of the protocol, but in an attempt to increase throughput the implementation is imperfect. |
| 20:29.38 | levi | Heh. |
| 20:29.52 | levi | So, did anyone look at the IBM DeveloperWorks link? |
| 20:29.59 | sjansen | ~links |
| 20:30.00 | ibot | Lynx-like text WWW browser. URL: http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~mikulas/links/ |
| 20:30.03 | sjansen | ~urls |
| 20:30.24 | sjansen | bah, musta come by just as I did a clear |
| 20:32.23 | levi | http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-highfunc.html?ca=dgr-lnxw07Functions |
| 20:34.07 | levi | You were engrossed in your discussion with mheath. |
| 20:41.10 | *** join/#utah beandog (~sdibb@64.50.56.200) |
| 20:41.21 | sjansen | levi: what about it? |
| 20:45.07 | levi | The article? |
| 20:46.44 | levi | I thought it was cool that an IBM DeveloperWorks article was advocating Scheme. |
| 20:47.13 | sjansen | I think it's strange every time I see back tech covered in an article. |
| 20:48.18 | levi | Back tech? |
| 20:48.34 | sjansen | basic tech |
| 20:48.56 | levi | Well, it's basic, but not necessarily common knowledge. |
| 20:49.51 | sjansen | Just makes me wonder how much I could be making writing basic introductions into stuff everyone should know at least the basics of. |
| 20:54.01 | levi | I just like to see positive exposure of underappreciated languages. |
| 20:54.17 | sjansen | ~appreciate levi |
| 20:58.58 | beandog | like perl? |
| 20:59.21 | levi | Perl is not exactly underappreciated in the sense that scheme, lisp, etc. are. |
| 20:59.43 | beandog | lisp ... that's really old, isn't it? |
| 21:00.34 | levi | Old in the sense that it was originally developed around the same time as Fortran. But it's very up-to-date otherwise. |
| 21:00.39 | levi_ | Thank you, beandog, you've just proven my point. |
| 21:02.03 | levi | Unix is old, too, but it gets plenty of love from the kids these days. |
| 21:03.20 | dw|w | oh, no, not a LISP debacle again. |
| 21:03.45 | beandog | Well I didnt mean old as in outdated |
| 21:03.48 | beandog | Just been around very long |
| 21:04.05 | levi | Yes, indeed. |
| 21:04.38 | dw|w | beandog: word of warning: if you think Debian and Gentoo fanatics are bad, get a LISP programmer started. |
| 21:05.00 | beandog | There are Gentoo fanatics? |
| 21:05.13 | dw|w | yeah, they're called ricers. |
| 21:05.41 | beandog | Ah, yes. |
| 21:05.58 | sjansen | Gentoo rocked! (then life came along and I didn't have time anymore) |
| 21:06.01 | levi | I make no claims that Lisp is the only good language, just that it /is/ a good language, and still has some unique features that are worth looking at. |
| 21:06.22 | dw|w | sjansen: hehe. |
| 21:06.29 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 21:06.35 | dw|w | levi: yeah, but I've had a LISP fanatic almost kill me one time. |
| 21:06.37 | beandog | sjansen: I'm still waiting |
| 21:06.56 | sjansen | waiting? |
| 21:07.16 | beandog | For life to come along |
| 21:07.30 | dw|w | wait, you're a Gentoo user and you're on the internet? |
| 21:07.37 | dw|w | YOU MEAN YOU FINALLY GOT IT INSTALLED?! |
| 21:07.40 | beandog | Heh |
| 21:07.48 | beandog | I got it installed a LONG time ago. |
| 21:07.58 | midnight_bomber | And so he says to me, you want to be a bad guy? and I say Yeah Baby! I want to be bad! I says Churchill space ponies I'm making gravy without the lumps! Ah ha ha ha ha haaaaa!!!!! |
| 21:08.01 | beandog | Besides, it only takes 15 minutes if you know what youre doing. |
| 21:08.09 | beandog | Actually I take that back. |
| 21:08.27 | dw|w | Gentoo users know what they're doing? |
| 21:08.35 | dw|w | ;) |
| 21:08.54 | beandog | Some of us do |
| 21:08.55 | beandog | :D |
| 21:09.10 | Jayce^ | beandog, don't include yourself in that group, we know you better than that |
| 21:09.12 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 21:09.20 | beandog | heh |
| 21:09.23 | dw|w | oh... burn. |
| 21:10.28 | beandog | Oh man .. I tell you what, one time I foobarred ncurses... I couldnt even run ls. |
| 21:10.31 | beandog | That was a fun day. |
| 21:10.34 | *** join/#utah ggundy (~ggundy@66.236.68.169.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:12.26 | hans | levi: I'm going to have to make a bookmark folder just for stuff you post that I can't read right away |
| 21:12.38 | hans | or you could start a blog and I can get it with rss. ;-) |
| 21:12.49 | hans | hey, that gives me an idea. a bot that makes an rss feed of posted links |
| 21:13.03 | dw|w | that's a pretty good idea. |
| 21:13.22 | bonez39 | any of you ever get this: a call comes in....marked Private Number or something else, but not with any number..you pick up and the voice says..The number YOU are CALLING...does not accept unsolicited calls...blah blah blah....(keeping in mind that some private number called YOU)? |
| 21:13.25 | dw|w | or just an x-chat plugin that automagickally throws links into said bookmark folder. |
| 21:13.39 | hans | heh, sounds like a phone phish |
| 21:13.47 | hans | not as cool as rss. |
| 21:13.57 | hans | maybe I could write one, in lisp |
| 21:14.03 | beandog | a phone phish? |
| 21:14.35 | hans | sounds like a phishing attack, but on the phone. they want him to enter his phone number |
| 21:14.53 | jsmith | Yup. |
| 21:15.02 | jsmith | I'd say it's a phone phish too. |
| 21:15.41 | levi | hans: Hmm, maybe I should blog all these links. It'd be a very different blog than my current one, though. |
| 21:15.58 | levi | Not that I have more than two or three regular readers to alienate. |
| 21:16.27 | beandog | You have a blog? Whats the url |
| 21:16.28 | bonez39 | hans: I suppose those sort of calls make asterisk all the moe attractive |
| 21:16.44 | levi | I've got part of the core of a blog engine implemented in Common Lisp right now, but given the small amount of free time I've had lately, it will probably remain unusable for a while yet. |
| 21:16.51 | levi | beandog: http://lifeoflevi.com/ |
| 21:17.10 | bonez39 | hans: egads..all these damned phishy physhermonsters ...after my information.. |
| 21:17.27 | jsmith | bonez39: Yup. |
| 21:17.34 | beandog | What is that green thing |
| 21:17.37 | jsmith | bonez39: (Of course, I'm the Asterisk bigot here) |
| 21:17.50 | bonez39 | who is stupid enough to give them informaiton....I guess someone does cause it keeps coming 'round |
| 21:18.01 | bonez39 | jsmith: NOT an asterisk proponent? |
| 21:18.14 | bonez39 | jsmith: prefer just the regular? |
| 21:18.28 | bonez39 | I don't run asterisk yet, but am more curious today than a few minutes ago |
| 21:19.18 | midnight_bomber | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:19.29 | beandog | levi: what blog sw are you running |
| 21:19.38 | levi | beandog: drupal |
| 21:20.37 | levi | hans: This probably isn't something you could attend, but it sounds like it's up your alley: http://summer.ucsc.edu/wacm/index.html |
| 21:21.06 | bucky | hi levi |
| 21:21.11 | beandog | Hmm, that's cool. |
| 21:21.26 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (~hatchmt@66.239.25.59.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:21.31 | levi | bucky: Heya. |
| 21:22.03 | hans | looks cool |
| 21:22.07 | bucky | levi so if you can?t express pi i as a simple ratio of two integers that means you can't say it's 22 7th's ? |
| 21:22.11 | beandog | Definately too bright. |
| 21:22.33 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog@166.70.34.182) |
| 21:22.41 | bucky | levi.. i'm not trying to be a smart alec |
| 21:22.47 | levi | beandog: Too bright? |
| 21:23.00 | beandog | too pastelly? |
| 21:23.22 | hans | bucky: 22/7 is only an approximation of pi |
| 21:23.27 | levi | bucky: Right. No integer divided into another integer will yield pi. |
| 21:23.36 | bucky | really ? |
| 21:23.42 | levi | Really. |
| 21:23.43 | bucky | i did not know that |
| 21:24.16 | levi | Also, pi is not the root of any quadratic equation with intger or rational coefficients. |
| 21:24.26 | *** join/#utah ggundy (~ggundy@66.236.68.169.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:24.36 | bucky | that's what it says on your website |
| 21:24.49 | levi | Well, it said the other thing on my website too. :) |
| 21:24.55 | hans | pi = 3.14159265, 22/7 = 3.14285714 |
| 21:25.04 | hans | so it only makes it two decimal places |
| 21:26.16 | bonez39 | KANSAS is coming this summer..right here to Sandy.....Carry On! |
| 21:26.25 | bucky | i have been demystified... it really is the end of the world... as i know it |
| 21:26.25 | bonez39 | any KANSAS fans ? |
| 21:26.44 | Jayce^ | bonez39, you're showing your age :) |
| 21:26.47 | hans | brailsmt lives there doesn't he? |
| 21:27.12 | levi | He lives in Missouri. |
| 21:27.24 | levi | Kansas City, though. |
| 21:27.51 | levi | I live in Sandy, which would also work as an antecedent to 'there' in your sentence. :) |
| 21:28.32 | levi | It's a more logical antecedent, even, since it's a place-name while 'KANSAS' was used as a band-name. |
| 21:28.54 | bucky | hans, if you were trying to land the rovers on mars and you used my pi.. you'd miss by a long way! |
| 21:29.26 | bucky | sandy as in soil... |
| 21:32.11 | bucky | levi, concerning "How to Destroy the Earth" what are we going to do when the caldera underneath Yellow Stone finally blows? |
| 21:33.59 | midnight_bomber | Yeah! Keep playing with fire, superpants, you don't know how much fire you're playing with! Ah ha ha ha ha ha! |
| 21:34.02 | levi | I suspect a lot of us will go about dying in fairly unpleasnt manners, but the planet will still be around. |
| 21:34.19 | bonez39 | Jayce^: glad to show my age....30 years plus making music and still going strong qualifies as classic..in my book; I'd like to see how the current crop of rappers and grunge and industrial bands....are doing in 30 years..... |
| 21:34.28 | bonez39 | time'll tell.....I suppose |
| 21:34.31 | bucky | mother earth is a self cleaning oven |
| 21:35.04 | levi | The idea in "How to Destroy the Earth" is to completely destroy the planet; i.e. break it into many smaller pieces. |
| 21:35.21 | midnight_bomber | Oh, that's just uh, Boom Baby Boom! I'm the Evil Midnight Bomber what Bombs at Midnight! |
| 21:35.22 | levi | Simply killing everyone on it, or wiping out all life, is a much easier problem. |
| 21:35.59 | bucky | hans, WifiFred in #wireless retreives rss feeds from several sources like / . for example |
| 21:36.10 | bucky | but he's written in php |
| 21:36.52 | bucky | levi, wasn't Dr Evil working on that... it was called the Alan Parsons Project.. |
| 21:36.53 | levi | bucky: The idea isn't to parse RSS to text, it's to parse stuff from the channel into RSS and serve it. |
| 21:37.11 | midnight_bomber | And so he says to me, you got legs, baby, you're everywhere…you're all over the place! Yeah! |
| 21:37.28 | bucky | midnight_bomber, ? |
| 21:37.38 | bucky | too much ipod? |
| 21:37.49 | midnight_bomber | Oh, that's just uh, Boom Baby Boom! I'm the Evil Midnight Bomber what Bombs at Midnight! |
| 21:37.51 | levi | Will someone put sjansen out of his misery? |
| 21:38.24 | sjansen | bucky: You have proven yourself unworthy by demonstrating a lack of familiarity with The Tick. |
| 21:39.09 | bucky | the tick.. are they the warm up band for KANSAS ? |
| 21:39.19 | hans | jsmith: thoughts on opennms? |
| 21:39.38 | jsmith | hans: I like it... mostly... |
| 21:39.47 | midnight_bomber | Ah ha ha ha ha ha! Sixty seconds till midnight…sixty seconds to nowhere, baby! You have all become victims of the Evil Midnight Bomber what bombs…Hey! Pay attention! |
| 21:39.52 | Jayce^ | sjansen, you been watching those episodes I copied for you? |
| 21:39.54 | hans | do elaborate |
| 21:40.00 | midnight_bomber | You'll never prove a thing, copper, I'm just a part time electrician…bad is good, baby! Down with government! |
| 21:40.05 | jsmith | hans: It's a little kludgy, but it seems well thought out. |
| 21:40.31 | jsmith | hans: I'm not sure about the Java stuff... but the postgresql tables look right. |
| 21:41.46 | Jayce^ | jsmith, speaking of which, you working on your 'mysql skills' that your company is looking for :-p |
| 21:42.03 | Maquis | huh??? |
| 21:42.14 | Jayce^ | omniture's new billboard |
| 21:43.40 | hans | jsmith: yeah, the java thing is keeping me from downloading it and trying it on a whim |
| 21:44.09 | hans | configuring tomcat and postgres just to try it out is a little much |
| 21:44.12 | jsmith | Jayce^: Nope... wrong department. |
| 21:44.20 | jsmith | hans: Amen. |
| 21:44.37 | jsmith | hans: I had a co-worker try it out, and then I poked around at the database schema. |
| 21:44.56 | hans | is it just a web interface, or does it have a UI or what? |
| 21:44.58 | jsmith | Jayce^: Looks like the ad is working though -- lots of people have noticed the new billboard. |
| 21:45.03 | jsmith | hans: Web-based. |
| 21:45.07 | jsmith | hans: (Which is stupid) |
| 21:45.42 | bucky | oh here's a nice accessory to go with your cell phone |
| 21:45.44 | bucky | AnzenBio, best known for its hand-held PDS-8 electrochemical detection device |
| 21:45.54 | bucky | http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_2642264 |
| 21:46.23 | Jayce^ | jsmith, strange, I hate that billboard location, you can't actually read it most of the drive because of the overpass in front of it |
| 21:46.49 | hans | is there any openview-esque snmp NMS out there? or are they all web-based nagios-style things? |
| 21:46.50 | jsmith | Jayce^: I know, it's stupid. In fact, both billboards are in terrible locations. |
| 21:47.12 | jsmith | hans: Sounds like it's time to start working on Krull again. |
| 21:47.32 | jsmith | Jayce^: I'll bet someone here thought they were getting a steal, and didn't realize where the billboards were. |
| 21:47.33 | hans | :) |
| 21:48.12 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 21:48.23 | sjansen | Maquis: that's because you to are unworthy |
| 21:48.42 | levi | bucky: Sweet, now I don't have to fear the bio-terrorists anymore! |
| 21:49.17 | levi | bucky: Actually, wake me up when they successfully detect flu and cold viruses, so we can use them to send sick people home. |
| 21:49.39 | midnight_bomber | Maquis: An object at rest, cannot be stopped! |
| 21:50.03 | bucky | or a melt down out at Dugway |
| 21:50.29 | levi | I used to live out at Dugway. |
| 21:50.42 | levi | Poor Maquis. |
| 21:50.44 | bucky | nice views... |
| 21:50.58 | levi | I kind of liked it, but I'm not exactly eager to go back. |
| 21:51.27 | bucky | actually day care centers in utah are are really government labs coming up with the perfect flu strain |
| 21:53.40 | levi | Not to mention the hospitals all over the country/world. |
| 21:56.19 | Maquis | GRRRRRR!!!!! |
| 21:56.57 | Maquis | else if (a = strlen(mask) && (b = strlen(name) || name[b] == ' ')){ <--- that's always true.... and gcc didn't warn me about that fact... |
| 21:57.17 | Maquis | (ok... almost always true) |
| 22:00.52 | jsmith | Maquis: One way to get warned about (a = foo) instead of (a == foo) is to turn them around, and do something like this: |
| 22:01.10 | jsmith | Maquis: if ( ' ' == name[b] ) |
| 22:01.22 | jsmith | Maquis: That way, if you type an = instead of ==, it won't compile :-) |
| 22:01.26 | Maquis | jsmith: good point.. |
| 22:02.03 | jsmith | Maquis: That little trick has saved me many an hour. |
| 22:02.03 | Bradipo | But did you mean to do a == strlen(mask) |
| 22:02.03 | Maquis | Bradipo: yeah... |
| 22:02.06 | Bradipo | Because a = strlen(mask) is also useful depending on your intent. |
| 22:02.19 | Maquis | Bradipo: that's the problem |
| 22:02.28 | Maquis | only... it means different things |
| 22:03.32 | *** join/#utah tapH20guru (~tapH20gur@204.110.228.193) |
| 22:03.40 | Bradipo | Especially if you are writing obscure code. :-) |
| 22:03.41 | Jayce^ | also learn to say = as 'gets' and == as equals |
| 22:04.05 | Bradipo | Jayce^: Going back to pascal days? :-) |
| 22:04.19 | tapH20guru | anyone do asterisk PBX work? |
| 22:04.24 | jsmith | sjansen: Wrong! |
| 22:04.29 | Bradipo | Yeah, I believe I got into the habit of using ``gets'' from my pascal days. |
| 22:04.35 | jsmith | sjansen: But I'm sure Code Complete would say to do the same thing. |
| 22:04.40 | jsmith | tapH20guru: Yes, I do. |
| 22:05.12 | tapH20guru | kewl - looking for someone to do some pro asterisk consulting |
| 22:05.28 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, not sure which language I learned it in first, but it holds true for most C syntax |
| 22:06.43 | sjansen | "Jayce^ wore his caret proudly like a scar. 'I got this wrangling Pascal' he said shrugging. 'Keep it to remind myself never to go back.' Jayce^ paused, then smirked. 'Besides, chicks dig it.'" |
| 22:06.57 | Jayce^ | hey, I never said that last part :) |
| 22:07.12 | bucky | hans, are you using pgaccess ? |
| 22:08.14 | levi | Going back to Pascal would be silly, but one of its systems programming descendants wouldn't be horrible. |
| 22:09.05 | bucky | i just hate getting cussed out by a lisp user.. i mean the way they pronounce cuss words.. |
| 22:09.24 | Jayce^ | thit? :) |
| 22:09.28 | bucky | lol |
| 22:10.25 | Jayce^ | peeth of... |
| 22:11.03 | Jayce^ | here he goes agian |
| 22:11.03 | midnight_bomber | Excuse me…excuse me…and then I says tell me I'm wrong, and he says I can't baby 'cause you're not ! |
| 22:13.35 | bucky | Maquis, i've felt a lot better ever since i completely gave up hope |
| 22:14.13 | Maquis | bucky: that's not all that comforting |
| 22:15.32 | bucky | oh goody.. a PC Laptop commercial... that means Super Dell will be on next |
| 22:15.37 | sjansen | Maquis: pass or fail the semster's almost over |
| 22:15.50 | *** part/#utah hatchmt (~hatchmt@66.239.25.59.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:16.09 | hans | yikes |
| 22:16.11 | hans | Apr 6 16:15:53 gwythaint last message repeated 429983 times |
| 22:16.56 | bucky | I Found the Cure for Hope |
| 22:17.22 | jsmith | hans: Yikes is right! |
| 22:17.37 | levi | What was the message? |
| 22:20.12 | sjansen | levi: Fr333 V14g|^/\ !!!!!!!! |
| 22:21.33 | bucky | free martha ? |
| 22:24.10 | *** part/#utah jsmith (~jsmith2@64.50.35.114.2O7.net) |
| 22:27.59 | bucky | Super Dell is on.. time to watch Jane Pauley |
| 22:34.27 | mrpull | pop quiz.... |
| 22:34.51 | mrpull | what happens when a customer deletes the /initrd directory and reboots? |
| 22:36.05 | levi | Assuming you're using the initrd to boot and the initrd image is in /initrd, you'd get a kernel panic and not boot due to a failure to mount the root fs, I think. |
| 22:36.08 | bucky | nothing |
| 22:36.54 | mrpull | ding ding ding.... levi is the winner! |
| 22:37.15 | bucky | my /initrd directory is empty.. but my /initrd.img is a soft link to /boot/initrd.img |
| 22:37.40 | bucky | depends on the distro i guess |
| 22:37.40 | levi | mrpull: What's my prize? |
| 22:38.13 | bucky | here's the real question.. how do you fix it? |
| 22:38.26 | mrpull | mkdir /initrd |
| 22:38.42 | mrpull | (after booting to a rescue cd and mounting the root filesystem rw) |
| 22:38.59 | mrpull | levi: a brand new.... |
| 22:39.07 | mrpull | levi: errr.... nothing I guess |
| 22:40.01 | sjansen | exit |
| 22:40.13 | bucky | i don't think a simple mkdir /initrd is going to fix it |
| 22:40.49 | mrpull | in this case (an old RH7.3), it is just a mount point that is used during bootup |
| 22:41.11 | bucky | that is old |
| 22:41.18 | mrpull | yup. not my machine. |
| 22:41.44 | levi | Is that like tossing salt over your shoulder? |
| 22:42.04 | bucky | it's like typing exit |
| 22:42.44 | Bradipo | RH7.3 isn't old. My desktop at home is Slackware 3.4 |
| 22:43.01 | sjansen | Bradipo: Did you buy a license for that? |
| 22:43.24 | Bradipo | mrpull: Is the error that you're getting a failure to load the initrd? |
| 22:46.15 | bucky | yep /initrd is a critical mount point during boot up |
| 22:46.52 | *** join/#utah a (~a@learn.cs.byu.edu) |
| 22:47.05 | mrpull | Bradipo: correct... |
| 22:47.21 | mrpull | (BTW, adding /initrd did fix the problem) |
| 22:47.24 | sjansen | you may not actually need the initrd |
| 22:55.34 | bucky | levi, why is Dennis Ritchie's favorite progamming language Alef ? |
| 22:58.27 | bucky | NPR is a mild sedative. Do not drive or operate machinery while listening to NPR. |
| 22:58.47 | brailsmt | better yet, don't listen to NPR |
| 23:00.09 | bucky | well.. i've always said "If you can't do it while on drugs.. don't do it" |
| 23:00.41 | bonez39 | it's ok if you listen to the Diane Ream/Rheem/Riem/Reame/however you spell it show....her voice, bless her heart, will keep anyone awake.... |
| 23:00.44 | hans | bucky: maybe because he likes Alf. |
| 23:00.58 | bucky | hans, what's so good about Alf |
| 23:01.09 | hans | he's cuddly? |
| 23:01.12 | levi | bucky: Well, probably because he's moved on from C, as we all should eventually. |
| 23:01.19 | bucky | ic |
| 23:01.20 | sjansen | What's not to like about a furry cat eating alien? |
| 23:01.34 | Bradipo | Gotta love our United States Postal Service. Last Tuesday, I ordered a product and paid extra to have it shipped ``express''. It arrived today in the West Jordan Post Office and we have to drive out there to get it. |
| 23:01.51 | Bradipo | That's service for you care of the USPS! |
| 23:02.08 | bucky | that's pretty bad :( |
| 23:02.34 | Bradipo | Yeah, I live in Pleasant Grove. |
| 23:02.39 | bucky | right |
| 23:02.51 | Bradipo | Why they didn't deliver it to Pleasant Grove Post Office, I'll never know I suppose. |
| 23:03.26 | bucky | you should file a complaint.. i mean that can't be right |
| 23:03.34 | Bradipo | lol |
| 23:03.57 | bucky | they delivered it 40 miles away? |
| 23:04.02 | Bradipo | Complain about the government, that's too extreme, and I certainly wouldn't want to be labeled an extremist. |
| 23:04.07 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 23:04.16 | bucky | amazing |
| 23:05.09 | *** join/#utah scottj (~scott@128.187.246.184) |
| 23:05.33 | Bradipo | Amazing... absurd. |
| 23:05.59 | bucky | that will teach you to have anything sent "express" |
| 23:06.10 | Bradipo | Yep. |
| 23:06.38 | levi | Alef sounds like it'd be a nicer language to do interesting things in than C, though it pretty much only exists in Plan 9 systems. |
| 23:06.40 | bucky | that's going to cost $10 in gasoline to go get it |
| 23:06.58 | bucky | Plan 9 is the future |
| 23:07.14 | levi | I find that unlikely. |
| 23:07.22 | bucky | and two hours of your time |
| 23:07.56 | bucky | levi, you'll see.. when they outlaw linux |
| 23:08.08 | levi | Heh. Even then... |
| 23:08.35 | levi | Plan 9 doesn't exactly have a lot of mindshare these days. |
| 23:09.10 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 23:09.14 | bucky | a few good apps could change that |
| 23:09.28 | levi | No, I don't think so. |
| 23:10.49 | levi | Not that Plan 9 isn't cool, in a unixy kind of way. |
| 23:10.50 | sjansen | BeOS had a few good apps, didn't do it much good. |
| 23:10.51 | bucky | I'm afraid I can't do that Dave. |
| 23:14.04 | scottj | sjansen, even in beos' strengths, it never had any apps that were even comparible to the windows/mac apps, except one radio app |
| 23:15.34 | levi | scottj: Do you think it's likely that Plan 9 is going to get those apps? |
| 23:16.22 | bucky | levi, i was just joking |
| 23:16.45 | levi | bucky: I figured so, but playing along is more fun. |
| 23:16.53 | scottj | levi, no, but I think a couple good apps (namely a decent web browser and a good video editor/image editor) could have done wonders for beos |
| 23:16.56 | levi | Time for me to go home, eat, and go see Stomp! |
| 23:17.01 | bucky | but it is interesting.. and dennis ritchie's path is of note |
| 23:17.11 | bucky | have fun! |
| 23:17.23 | sjansen | what the?! |
| 23:17.41 | Bradipo | Ok, I called the Post Office in West Jordan. |
| 23:17.46 | sjansen | How did... It's after 5 already?! |
| 23:17.59 | bucky | Bradipo, can they deliver it to you? |
| 23:18.01 | Bradipo | They said that the Pleasant Grove office borrowed a delivery truck from West Jordan and has been using the West Jordan slips. |
| 23:18.25 | Bradipo | So, while the slip says the package is in West Jordan, it is most likely in Pleasant Grove. |
| 23:18.32 | Bradipo | lol |
| 23:19.18 | bucky | ah.. those freight tracking systems arent very accurate |
| 23:19.25 | Bradipo | And indeed the tracking says that is was delivered to PG. |
| 23:19.26 | Bradipo | What a pain. |
| 23:19.36 | Bradipo | My wife is going to kill me (she is driving out there to get it). |
| 23:19.51 | Bradipo | But I did tell her to call the Post Office before she went, so hopefully she did. :-) |
| 23:20.07 | bucky | oh noooo..... :(( |
| 23:20.41 | bucky | you know.. abstence is a lot easier than a lot of people realize |
| 23:26.05 | *** part/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 23:29.15 | bonez39 | Does this message "dpkg: failed to write available record about `imagefs' to `/var/lib/dpkg/available': No space left on device E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)" appear ominous? I run apt-get upgrade and get this..... |
| 23:29.32 | bonez39 | there is about 100 meg free on this drive... |
| 23:33.39 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~sjk36@128.187.175.109) |
| 23:34.21 | SpecialK | ~lart Maquis |
