| 00:00.36 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:01.53 | levi | I know java developers who have lots of java-on-windows experience, but they're working here. |
| 00:03.29 | mheath | And a VB developer (limited experience) but I doubt anyone wants one of those :D |
| 00:03.49 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:03.56 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:04.31 | mheath | "VB is a worm under a rock in a trailer park language" |
| 00:04.35 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:04.36 | mheath | my favorite quote from me :D |
| 00:04.59 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:05.19 | mheath | Yeah, I agree. |
| 00:05.26 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:05.33 | mheath | I'm just taking a class on it in Highschool, and using it in several projects |
| 00:05.38 | mheath | mainly for the ease of portability |
| 00:05.59 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:06.22 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:06.33 | mheath | Yeah. |
| 00:06.43 | mheath | I have no interest in trying to work with java for a career. |
| 00:07.22 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:07.45 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.07 | mheath | Go talk to ITT Tech or somewhere |
| 00:08.09 | jakea | can ibot yell "khaaaaaaaaan!"? |
| 00:08.18 | mheath | a cheap technical college that offers "Job placement assistance" |
| 00:08.25 | mheath | tell them you want to higher a graduate |
| 00:08.42 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.46 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:09.06 | mheath | Haha, figured as much. Still... |
| 00:09.06 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:09.15 | mheath | Take what you can get :D |
| 00:09.43 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:09.45 | mheath | Competing in a robotics / programming competition they sponsored |
| 00:09.50 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:10.08 | mheath | I'm working with a bunch of morons on it, though |
| 00:10.22 | mheath | It uses "Lego Mindstorms" (its just a highschool thing...) |
| 00:10.39 | mheath | They've gone around for MONTHS wondering why they couldn't transfer programs to the thing via the USB IR tower |
| 00:10.59 | mheath | They never installed the drivers for the USB IR Tower on the windows box. |
| 00:11.15 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:11.24 | mheath | It even popped up every time you started it and tried to get you to install them. They never did, and wondered why it didn't work |
| 00:11.25 | mheath | Yes. |
| 00:12.05 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:12.10 | mheath | I've got to go have dinner. Perhaps we can continue this discussion in a few minutes :D |
| 00:23.41 | joshc | ibot, kill joshc now |
| 00:23.43 | ibot | ACTION shoots a hyper-charged quark gun at joshc now |
| 00:23.56 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:23.59 | *** part/#utah joshc (~josh@65.37.125.194) |
| 00:29.07 | Maquis | question: is there a way to change where a symlink is pointing without removing the symlink and recreating it? |
| 00:33.43 | shadoi | Maquis: not really, just do it with one command. |
| 00:34.02 | shadoi | rm link && ln -s blah blah |
| 00:38.50 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 00:44.50 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 00:55.59 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@sorenson.dsl.csolutions.net) |
| 01:11.50 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@ns2.digis.net) |
| 01:14.47 | Maquis | shadoi: but that requires that you have write permission on the parent directory |
| 01:22.56 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@sorenson.dsl.csolutions.net) |
| 01:23.25 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~sjk36@128.187.175.36) |
| 01:23.43 | SpecialK | ~lart Maquis |
| 01:24.26 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@209.197.11.63) |
| 01:31.32 | Maquis | ~lart SpecialK |
| 01:34.18 | *** join/#utah indessed (~ross@71-35-209-190.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 01:35.05 | indessed | Hey, does anyone know how to search Google for, e.g. "foo * bar" as a phrase, where I want to find "foo" followed by a single word (any word) followed by "bar"? |
| 01:35.20 | Maquis | ross? |
| 01:36.27 | indessed | yeah, what's up? |
| 01:36.32 | Maquis | not much... |
| 01:36.43 | indessed | How's the campaigning? |
| 01:36.56 | Maquis | ok... i just got back to my email... |
| 01:37.00 | indessed | I see you're letting the lesser sods battle it out on their own. |
| 01:37.05 | Maquis | and discovered that i've got a good bit |
| 01:37.09 | Maquis | i've been busy |
| 01:37.24 | indessed | I personally don't think they've said anything worth responding to, actually :-) |
| 01:37.32 | Maquis | :) |
| 01:38.23 | indessed | So, does anybody use Google? |
| 01:40.04 | indessed | Hm. I'll try the inflammatory version. |
| 01:40.17 | indessed | MAN!! Google sucks!!! It's like the worst search engine ever! |
| 01:40.39 | indessed | I can't even do a simple search like "foo * bar", where * is any word. |
| 01:40.43 | Maquis | ~lart indessed |
| 01:40.52 | indessed | yikes! |
| 01:41.41 | levi | I've been annoyed at google's lack of a more verbose query language, too. |
| 01:43.17 | indessed | thanks for the sympathy, at least, levi :-) |
| 01:43.31 | Maquis | i'm with levi... |
| 01:43.44 | Maquis | i have no idea how to do what you want, but if i worked for google, i'd change that |
| 01:47.18 | levi | I doubt it's something easily changed. |
| 01:48.20 | Maquis | not easily changed, but it doesn't seem like it would be *too* hard... |
| 01:48.31 | Maquis | that and/or allowing punctuation in queries |
| 01:48.34 | levi | Depends on how the indices are set up. |
| 01:49.38 | indessed | well, you can already do phrase queries, along the lines of "foo bar baz" (with quotes) |
| 01:49.46 | indessed | so I can't imagine it would be too difficult to alter that slightly. |
| 01:50.04 | Maquis | yeah |
| 01:50.35 | Maquis | it seems like it should just change something in the parsing of queries, and then in the actual sql stored procs (or queries, or whatever) |
| 01:51.44 | levi | Do they use sql databases? |
| 01:51.55 | Maquis | dunno |
| 01:52.12 | Maquis | whatever they use, it's just a query change... |
| 02:04.55 | *** part/#utah indessed (~ross@71-35-209-190.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:08.44 | *** join/#utah Mecworks (~marc@208.186.182.173) |
| 02:30.23 | tensai | ~lart Maquis |
| 02:36.56 | Maquis | ~lart tensai |
| 02:45.11 | *** join/#utah stuporglue (~stuporglu@c-67-164-196-151.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:46.29 | stuporglue | Has anyone see savetoby.com? |
| 02:47.06 | stuporglue | Bob Parson (godaddy.com owner) has a thing on his blog about it (http://www.bobparsons.com/) |
| 02:55.12 | stuporglue | ls |
| 02:55.32 | *** join/#utah stuporgl1e (~stuporglu@c-67-164-196-151.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:56.52 | Tene | http://gargravarr.cc.utexas.edu/owl/sview-lg.html |
| 03:04.52 | levi | It doesn't seem to be up to much at present. |
| 03:07.20 | Tene | It's watching you! |
| 03:09.15 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (~xbmodder@adsl-67-117-130-251.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 03:15.51 | levi | Blah, I hate C macros. |
| 03:16.01 | dawithers | pashish |
| 03:16.16 | dawithers | at least its not java |
| 03:16.45 | levi | I want some decent metaprogramming facilities! |
| 03:18.25 | levi | I have a bunch of configuration-type information that I want to be compiled in, but there's no real easy way short of making my own preprocessor to have a sane definition language for them. |
| 03:34.13 | xbmodder_lappy | hey? |
| 03:34.27 | xbmodder_lappy | ask my GCC-guy |
| 03:36.37 | tensai | ~lart Maquis |
| 03:39.01 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 03:39.13 | Tene | https://www.vmware.com/lugprex/lugPrez_login.jsp |
| 03:39.43 | Tene | free vmware for lugs. |
| 03:40.45 | xbmodder_lappy | AWESOME! |
| 03:43.20 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~josh@josh.dsl.aros.net) |
| 03:46.06 | Maquis | question: do people have /proc/kcore ? |
| 03:46.27 | Maquis | it's really big on my machine, and i'm thinking it's a kernel core file... so, i could probably rm it? |
| 03:46.28 | Tene | that's the qemu accellerator, isn't it? |
| 03:46.42 | *** join/#utah Mecworks_ (~marc@208.186.182.173) |
| 03:46.43 | Tene | wait, no, that's kemu, or something |
| 03:46.43 | *** join/#utah Peregrine (~lamontp@lrp.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:46.49 | Maquis | Peregrine: !!!! |
| 03:46.51 | Tene | and /dev |
| 03:46.55 | Peregrine | Maquis! :) |
| 03:46.57 | Maquis | Tene: yeah |
| 03:47.02 | Tene | so... /me shuts up. |
| 03:47.11 | Maquis | it's still trying to load... |
| 03:47.12 | mheath | Can someone give me some nice web hosting, for a couple of files? |
| 03:47.17 | mheath | (< 5 MB total) |
| 03:47.38 | Maquis | mheath: i would, but i'm assuming you're interested in a server that can be seen from the real world... |
| 03:47.55 | mheath | Just one .html page, a DocBook .xml file, and several converted forms of that DocBook xml file (PDF, texinfo, etc) |
| 03:48.04 | mheath | Maquis, indeed I am :D |
| 03:49.09 | mheath | We're looking with these "Lego mindstorms" robot things for a highschool thing.. |
| 03:49.27 | mheath | I kinda realized that the API documentation for NQC, one of the languages you can use with it, is horrible |
| 03:50.09 | mheath | So, I'm taking an outdated, poorly written, and horribly formatted version of the API documentation and reformatting it, modifying it, editing it, extending it, etc. |
| 03:52.45 | tensai | Maquis: are you being serious about /proc/kcore? |
| 03:54.48 | Maquis | tensai: yes |
| 03:54.51 | Maquis | is that bad? |
| 03:55.01 | JoshH | Maquis: its a virtual file, an image of your memory basically. |
| 03:55.06 | tensai | /proc/kcore is a virtual file that shows the contents of ram |
| 03:55.13 | tensai | you couldn't rm it if you tried |
| 03:55.56 | Maquis | oh |
| 03:55.58 | Maquis | o |
| 03:55.58 | Maquis | k |
| 03:56.05 | Maquis | btw, vim won't open it |
| 03:56.11 | Maquis | and it kills your term if you try |
| 03:56.17 | JoshH | heh |
| 03:56.21 | JoshH | ya, its not a text file |
| 03:56.30 | tensai | I've opened it in vim before. were you root? |
| 03:56.34 | Maquis | yeah |
| 03:56.45 | Maquis | and it made my entire system go really slow, etc... |
| 03:56.46 | tensai | selinux? |
| 03:57.00 | Maquis | i don't think i have selinux enabled |
| 03:57.28 | tensai | if vim tried to write a backup file that would have made it slow |
| 03:58.18 | tensai | try less or vim -R |
| 03:58.44 | levi | Viewing it in a text editor/viewer is not particularly useful. |
| 03:59.06 | levi | As it's mostly binary data. |
| 03:59.31 | Maquis | but with vim, couldn't you switch to hex editor mode/ |
| 04:00.01 | Maquis | why is it a full gig, though? |
| 04:00.10 | JoshH | do you have a gig of ram? |
| 04:00.13 | tensai | it's the size of your ram. you must have a gig |
| 04:00.19 | Maquis | ummm... |
| 04:00.23 | Maquis | i have 256 MB |
| 04:00.40 | tensai | you should get a refund on your kcore. it's all whacked. |
| 04:00.55 | Maquis | well... that's true of most of my system... |
| 04:01.17 | tensai | there you go. send it back with a note that the kcore is the wrong size. |
| 04:01.31 | tensai | they may not believe you about the hard drive, but that'll do it I think |
| 04:03.30 | levi | Maquis: Apparently reading /proc/kcore has a side-effect of making it grow. |
| 04:03.47 | levi | Turns it into a sparse ELF file. |
| 04:04.52 | levi | objdump -p /proc/kcore will show which offsets correspond to which symbols in the kernel. |
| 04:04.55 | Maquis | levi: really? |
| 04:05.03 | Maquis | i accidentally exploded a sparse file??? :) |
| 04:05.05 | Maquis | cool! |
| 04:05.17 | xbmodder_lappy | Maquis, hey! your wrong! my psycoligist reccomends having a girlfriend. |
| 04:05.28 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.192.70) |
| 04:07.02 | Maquis | levi: any way to reverse it?> |
| 04:07.04 | levi | xbmodder_lappy: I, on the other hand, recommend learning the difference between "your" and "you're". And how to spell words like "recommends". And various other topics relating to English. |
| 04:07.26 | levi | Maquis: No. But it doesn't matter, because it's not taking up real disk space. |
| 04:07.27 | xbmodder_lappy | levi, i know |
| 04:07.49 | levi | xbmodder_lappy, then do! |
| 04:07.50 | Tene | xbm: I recommend a long walk off a shor pier. |
| 04:09.20 | JoshH | aww |
| 04:09.27 | JoshH | poor xbmodder gets picked on |
| 04:09.29 | levi | Maquis: Nothing in /proc takes disk space. |
| 04:09.49 | Maquis | ok |
| 04:10.07 | levi | Maquis: It's just a filesystem-based interface into certain kernel functions. |
| 04:10.11 | Maquis | ok |
| 04:14.15 | levi | BTW, you can also hook gdb up to /proc/kcore to debug the kernel. |
| 04:14.29 | levi | Fun stuff, eh? |
| 04:14.33 | levi | I better head home. |
| 04:14.39 | Maquis | levi: so it is a core file? |
| 04:14.42 | mheath | Linux kernel debugging sounds like it would be a nightmare.... |
| 04:14.54 | Maquis | levi: have fun |
| 04:15.01 | Peregrine | levi: still at work!? Man. I know how it is though. |
| 04:15.24 | mheath | levi, /proc/kcore == a read only symlink to RAM. |
| 04:15.26 | mheath | er |
| 04:15.27 | levi | Maquis: Thus the name 'kcore' :) It's a live core file, though. |
| 04:15.28 | mheath | Maquis, |
| 04:15.57 | Maquis | levi: ok... see, i thought it was a core that i could rm.... |
| 04:16.09 | levi | Peregrine: Well, when I've got interesting stuff to do and my wife is busy, I don't mind staying late. |
| 04:16.46 | Peregrine | Nuts. Looks like redhat has broken up2date & yum by borking one of their central repos off the net. |
| 04:17.01 | Peregrine | levi: yeah, I know what you mean; do it from time to time myself :). |
| 04:19.42 | mheath | Those darn sharp edges of aluminum computer cases that can snag on thumbs when being thrown 10 feet into a dumpster! :D |
| 04:20.47 | JoshH | heh, ouch |
| 04:21.13 | JoshH | always throw cases by the outside :) |
| 04:21.24 | mheath | haaha, it was missing the sides |
| 04:22.11 | mheath | we're cleaning out the back room at my work |
| 04:22.15 | JoshH | lol |
| 04:22.17 | mheath | making way for it to become a warehouse |
| 04:22.22 | JoshH | got any useful hardware about to be thrown away? |
| 04:22.26 | mheath | theres some scary old computers back there |
| 04:22.36 | mheath | Nope, most of the useful stuff we're selling at a swap meet... |
| 04:22.54 | JoshH | where/when? |
| 04:22.55 | mheath | Everything > Pentium I we're selling |
| 04:22.59 | mheath | don't know |
| 04:23.12 | JoshH | i could use a pentium1 with 64m of ram, if you have one |
| 04:23.26 | JoshH | im trying to score a little firewall box like that |
| 04:23.38 | mheath | stuff ranges from AMD K6-2's to Pentium 4 motherboards, to nice cases, to nice sound cards.... |
| 04:23.54 | mheath | JoshH, you miss understood me... |
| 04:24.04 | mheath | "Everything > PEnium I we're selling" == we threw out the Penitum I's |
| 04:24.09 | mheath | Plenty of PII's, though. |
| 04:24.28 | JoshH | i thought you were in the process of throwing them away, as in, you still had some. :P |
| 04:24.36 | mheath | nah, we chucked them |
| 04:24.36 | JoshH | where do you work if you dont mind me asking? |
| 04:24.48 | mheath | Superior Computers |
| 04:24.57 | mheath | the ogden location |
| 04:25.08 | JoshH | ah |
| 04:25.14 | mheath | Creepy people kept trying to dig stuff out of our dumpster |
| 04:25.25 | mheath | and oddly enough, they weren't looking for computers |
| 04:25.29 | xbmodder_lappy | not me... |
| 04:25.31 | JoshH | lol |
| 04:25.44 | mheath | One guy was looking for food (don't know why he chose to do so at a computer store..) |
| 04:26.06 | mheath | And the other wan't to take the metal out so he could sell it and make money. |
| 04:26.06 | JoshH | he was probably mentally ill |
| 04:26.14 | JoshH | a lot of those guys are |
| 04:26.30 | xbmodder_lappy | i once saw a lot of underclothing being thrown away. |
| 04:26.38 | JoshH | one time i walked outside the front door of my work and some homeless guy was standing right in our driveway trying to take a crap |
| 04:26.42 | mheath | This box (450 Mhz PIII) I got from work. |
| 04:27.00 | JoshH | we told him to leave and he did, luckily before he was able to do his business |
| 04:27.01 | mheath | Plus a dual proc PII server.... |
| 04:27.10 | xbmodder_lappy | mheath, cool. |
| 04:27.14 | JoshH | and like 3 days later the same guy came in our door and walked back to my desk and asked me what time it was... |
| 04:27.25 | mheath | haha, weird. |
| 04:27.30 | JoshH | then like a week ago I saw him getting loaded into some van that said "homeless outreach program", lol |
| 04:27.56 | JoshH | working downtown you really see a lot of bums |
| 04:28.10 | mheath | Yeah, but this isn't really downtown, where i work.. |
| 04:28.26 | mheath | I see a lot of people who look like their hitchhikers, or say they just came from _______ |
| 04:28.33 | mheath | but we're a fair ways away from the freeway |
| 04:28.35 | JoshH | ya, i work in downtown slc, there are lots of them there. ive never seen any in our dumpster though |
| 04:30.41 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:30.53 | mheath | I've actually just got an internship at this computer co (I'm in highschool...) |
| 04:31.00 | mheath | not paid, but its basically a class in school for me. |
| 04:31.08 | JoshH | thats cool |
| 04:31.19 | mheath | and I get this free hardware :D |
| 04:31.24 | JoshH | better than sitting there listening to a teacher and then getting homework |
| 04:31.30 | mheath | Haha, yep. |
| 04:38.58 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@c-67-161-219-228.client.comcast.net) |
| 04:46.04 | Maquis | vim question: i recently changed some settings in my .vimrc, and since that point, i have noticed that, when I first open gvim, it acts as if these particular settings do not exist, but when I do :so .vimrc, it works |
| 04:46.52 | Maquis | why would that happen? |
| 04:47.42 | fozz | echo $VIMRC from the shell |
| 04:47.55 | Maquis | it's empty |
| 04:48.05 | fozz | env | grep VIM |
| 04:48.31 | Maquis | nothing |
| 04:48.34 | fozz | Only thing I could think of. |
| 04:48.38 | fozz | Sorry. |
| 04:48.44 | Maquis | thanks |
| 04:51.34 | Tene | ln -s .vimrc .gvimrc |
| 04:55.28 | levi-laptop | Hah. |
| 04:55.38 | levi-laptop | I just heard a funny story about my sister-in-law. |
| 04:55.51 | Maquis | hmmm... |
| 04:56.18 | levi-laptop | She was in the mall and walked by Prints Plus. She looked in and saw a picture, which she stared at for a while because she thought it was of me. |
| 04:56.26 | Maquis | moving /etc/vim/vimrc and /etc/vim/gvimrc to vimrc-OLD and gvimrc-OLD seems to have fixed it... |
| 04:56.47 | *** part/#utah spig (~spig_@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:56.53 | levi-laptop | So, to figure out who it really was, she took it up to the counter to ask. Apparently, she almost bought it for me. |
| 04:58.30 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@209.197.11.63) |
| 04:58.35 | levi-laptop | It was actually Orlando Bloom, not me. |
| 05:06.15 | fozz | Whoa! |
| 05:06.22 | fozz | levi-laptop: Now I need to see a picture of you. |
| 05:06.26 | *** join/#utah Tene (~tene@c-67-182-199-40.client.comcast.net) |
| 05:06.50 | Maquis | wow... levi-laptop looks like orlando bloom??? |
| 05:07.35 | levi-laptop | I'd need a long blonde wig, too. |
| 05:08.08 | Maquis | levi-laptop: wait... this was your sister-in-law |
| 05:08.13 | Maquis | and she didn't recognize orlando bloom? |
| 05:08.17 | Maquis | how old is she? |
| 05:09.38 | fozz | "I bought this poster because I like Orla... uh... because this guy, whoever he is, looks like my brother in law." |
| 05:10.07 | fozz | "No, that isn't lipstick on it." |
| 05:11.56 | levi-laptop | Heh. |
| 05:12.06 | levi-laptop | She didn't even know who it was! That's the funny part. |
| 05:12.08 | Maquis | my mom knows who orlando bloom is (and not because of me)... we were in rotk and my mom leaned over and said "he's pretty hot" |
| 05:15.28 | levi-laptop | Maquis: I was wondering if you'd know who he was, based on your lack of pop culture knowledge. ;) |
| 05:17.58 | *** join/#utah mrpull-lt (~mrpull-lt@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:18.06 | Maquis | levi-laptop: even i know who orlando bloom is |
| 05:18.14 | levi-laptop | Anyway, I get people telling me I look like him all the time. Even some random waiter at the Spaghetti Factory mentioned it. That was pretty funny, too. |
| 05:18.25 | Maquis | really? |
| 05:18.29 | Maquis | do you have a pic up someplace? |
| 05:18.42 | levi-laptop | Hmm. I don't think I do right now. |
| 05:19.15 | levi-laptop | Either my friendster or orkut profile has a picture. Not sure which. |
| 05:23.39 | levi-laptop | Must be orkut. |
| 05:26.26 | Maquis | hmmm |
| 05:26.42 | levi-laptop | Anyone remember my Orkut id? |
| 05:27.45 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~scott@216.126.221.115) |
| 05:27.52 | spr | i might be able to find it levi-laptop |
| 05:29.39 | levi-laptop | I'm in the #utah group. |
| 05:30.03 | spr | I actually found you via sjansen |
| 05:32.43 | levi-laptop | Ahh, http://lifeoflevi.com/wedding/pictures/C3R1.jpg |
| 05:32.52 | spr | levi-laptop, I can't seem to find an orkut id. |
| 05:33.33 | levi-laptop | spr: I figured it out. It's just my name. |
| 05:35.28 | Maquis | hmmm... kinda see a resemblance... but not enough that i'd get you confused with him... |
| 05:35.47 | mheath | How does one get into orkut? |
| 05:38.52 | levi-laptop | mheath: You have to get an invitation. But, like friendster, there's no real point to it. |
| 05:39.12 | mheath | Why do you say that? |
| 05:41.29 | levi-laptop | Well, let me rephrase that: I don't find either of them useful at all. |
| 05:42.03 | mheath | *cough* So you need an invite, huh? ;) |
| 05:42.52 | mheath | actually, I'm going to sleep... |
| 05:44.48 | levi-laptop | Maquis: Possibly the resemblance is more noticeable in person. |
| 05:45.31 | levi-laptop | I didn't think I resembled him too closely, but I get enough comments to make me question that judgement. |
| 05:45.50 | levi-laptop | But hey, I'm not complaining. |
| 05:45.58 | Maquis | levi-laptop: perhaps |
| 05:46.03 | Maquis | haha |
| 05:46.16 | Maquis | it's likely that the picture isn't quite the same... |
| 05:54.56 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.192.70) |
| 05:57.20 | *** join/#utah flyboy^ (~flyboy@69.20.57.22) |
| 06:58.26 | Maquis | byebye chanserv |
| 06:58.35 | fozz | Waaaaah. |
| 06:58.50 | Maquis | ~lart fozz |
| 06:59.05 | fozz | Only the nuts?! |
| 06:59.28 | fozz | Not the nuts of fozz, I hope. |
| 06:59.50 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-181.client.comcast.net) |
| 07:02.07 | fozz | Man. Those are some problems. |
| 07:03.51 | *** join/#utah Maquis (~Maquis@byu074659wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 07:04.23 | Maquis | hi |
| 07:05.00 | Maquis | stupid byu network |
| 07:06.16 | *** join/#utah dawithers (~dawithers@128.187.245.34) |
| 07:07.30 | fozz | That has to be the most poorly composed lart I've seen ibot deliver. |
| 07:07.46 | fozz | Whoever came up with that one shoudl be larted a few times. |
| 07:08.28 | Maquis | fozz: which one? squirrels? |
| 07:08.37 | fozz | yeah. And nuts. and mis-shapened logs. |
| 07:08.55 | fozz | That's not even a word! |
| 07:09.24 | fozz | It can't help but have multiple interpretations! |
| 07:09.30 | fozz | It makes no intuitive sense! |
| 07:10.22 | fozz | ~lart ibot |
| 07:13.15 | goozbach | I kinda like that lart |
| 07:13.21 | fozz | You would. |
| 07:13.23 | fozz | ;-) |
| 07:13.26 | goozbach | yeah |
| 07:13.39 | goozbach | anyone here played "deep but not profound"? |
| 07:13.46 | fozz | No. What is it? |
| 07:14.22 | Maquis | stingrays |
| 07:14.27 | Maquis | scuba divers |
| 07:14.34 | goozbach | it's a word game |
| 07:14.35 | Maquis | submarines |
| 07:14.49 | goozbach | I say something like "deep but not profound" |
| 07:14.50 | fozz | Underwater heat vents? |
| 07:14.50 | fozz | :) |
| 07:15.01 | goozbach | or |
| 07:15.06 | goozbach | cool but not hot |
| 07:15.15 | Maquis | uh huh... |
| 07:15.26 | goozbach | full but not empty |
| 07:15.48 | Maquis | and what do we do? |
| 07:15.51 | fozz | And our job, as participants, is to do... what? |
| 07:15.53 | goozbach | and it's everybody's job to figure out the rule that is being used to make the statement true |
| 07:16.06 | goozbach | if you figure out the rule |
| 07:16.11 | goozbach | you don't say what it is |
| 07:16.21 | goozbach | you just start creating your own statments |
| 07:16.40 | goozbach | and you don't have to know what the rule is to make a statment |
| 07:16.48 | Maquis | feet but not hands |
| 07:16.55 | goozbach | Maquis: true |
| 07:17.23 | goozbach | those who know the rule will tell you if you are correct |
| 07:17.35 | Maquis | rain but not sleet |
| 07:18.10 | fozz | This requires too much thinking. |
| 07:18.48 | goozbach | Maquis: false |
| 07:19.05 | goozbach | but the statment "sleet but not rain" would be true |
| 07:19.27 | fozz | You killed SpecialK with your thinky game! |
| 07:19.37 | *** join/#utah ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 07:19.38 | *** mode/#utah [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 07:19.45 | fozz | ~hail ChanServ |
| 07:19.47 | ibot | ACTION bows down to ChanServ and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 07:19.54 | Maquis | ? |
| 07:19.54 | Maquis | warm but not frozen? |
| 07:19.54 | Maquis | doh! |
| 07:19.54 | Maquis | stupid network's going crazy again! |
| 07:19.55 | Maquis | goozbach: what about the warm but not frozen? |
| 07:20.13 | Maquis | keen but not smart? |
| 07:20.29 | Maquis | mississippi but not ohio? |
| 07:20.46 | goozbach | warm but not frozen doesn't work |
| 07:20.56 | goozbach | the other two do |
| 07:21.00 | Maquis | ok... |
| 07:21.09 | Maquis | bubble but not soap |
| 07:21.17 | goozbach | very good |
| 07:21.24 | goozbach | goozbach but not maquis |
| 07:21.44 | goozbach | popper but not corn |
| 07:22.43 | Maquis | fozz but not specialk? |
| 07:22.43 | Maquis | goozbach but not maquis? |
| 07:22.43 | Maquis | no!!!! NOT AGAIN!!!!! |
| 07:22.43 | Maquis | ~lart byu network |
| 07:23.12 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-181.client.comcast.net) |
| 07:23.23 | goozbach | both work |
| 07:23.26 | Maquis | ping? |
| 07:23.32 | fozz | pong. |
| 07:23.49 | Maquis | goozbach: check jabber... :) |
| 07:24.24 | Maquis | jabber but not gaim |
| 07:25.00 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.192.70) |
| 07:25.20 | goozbach | Maquis: check your /msg that tells you to check jabber that'll tell you to check your email which will tell you to check your voicemail :) |
| 07:25.29 | Maquis | haha |
| 07:25.53 | goozbach | jabber but not gaim works |
| 07:26.33 | goozbach | probally not the best time to play this game |
| 07:26.39 | goozbach | woah |
| 07:27.00 | Maquis | goozbach: why not best time to play? |
| 07:27.12 | Maquis | hurricane but not tornado |
| 07:27.16 | goozbach | nobody on |
| 07:27.22 | Maquis | true |
| 07:27.28 | Maquis | well, we could play some other time :) |
| 07:27.45 | fozz | Yeah- choose some time when my brain is... on. |
| 07:28.01 | Maquis | haha |
| 07:28.05 | Maquis | ~spell idlely |
| 07:28.17 | Maquis | idly? really? |
| 07:29.02 | fozz | That sounds like a Ned Flanders line from The Simpsons. |
| 07:29.20 | fozz | Just stick "Neighbor" at the end of it. |
| 07:30.20 | goozbach | heh |
| 07:34.45 | fozz | Like the "droidikas" in SW Ep1? |
| 07:38.18 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-181.client.comcast.net) |
| 09:34.38 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 09:59.20 | *** join/#utah HarleyPig (~smoothsel@65.73.113.162) |
| 09:59.28 | HarleyPig | Anyone awake? |
| 09:59.40 | HarleyPig | Who can help with apache configuration? |
| 10:10.27 | HarleyPig | Nevermind. Figgered it out. |
| 10:10.35 | *** part/#utah HarleyPig (~smoothsel@65.73.113.162) |
| 13:18.06 | *** join/#utah dawithers (~dawithers@128.187.245.34) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 13:18.06 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (~aint@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 13:20.53 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (~aint@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:02.36 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@ns2.digis.net) |
| 14:08.37 | *** part/#utah mrpull-lt (~mrpull-lt@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:16.11 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 14:36.28 | bonez39 | need some advice..I currently have three domains registered at NetworkSolutions...they notified me renewal is coming up...suggestions on where to register ? I have a domain registered with Namecheap.com ... anyone have other suggestions? |
| 14:56.40 | *** join/#utah mooneroid (~mooneroid@jmoon.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 15:08.13 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 15:09.52 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@71.32.228.156) |
| 15:47.06 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:58.02 | *** join/#utah joshc (~josh@65.37.125.194) |
| 16:04.40 | *** join/#utah tensai_ (~tensai@207.141.37.66) |
| 16:09.28 | *** join/#utah resplin (~richard@65-100-253-172.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 16:17.40 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@130.128.71.244) |
| 16:19.52 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@firebat.aros.net) |
| 16:20.11 | spr | ah, Nepeloan Dynamite at Brainshare. Doesn't get better than this |
| 16:29.14 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 16:32.39 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:33.01 | sjansen | And here is why I don't feel bad about completely ignoring mainstream media: http://www.unix-girl.com/blog/archives/001732.html |
| 16:34.19 | *** join/#utah jsmith (~jsmith@pip.drs1.omniture.com) |
| 16:39.24 | *** join/#utah me (~me@67.50.46.118) |
| 16:42.00 | sjansen | I mean, it's nothing ground breaking, although I do recommend everyone do it. Just grab a copy of Fedora and install. All your Debian problems will go away. |
| 16:43.03 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-181.client.comcast.net) |
| 16:43.29 | me | ah dang someone already owns rm-rf.com |
| 16:54.33 | resplin | Here's a vim question for the audience: |
| 16:54.55 | resplin | On debian, when I press "i" to enter insert mode, it inserts a space. On redhat, no such space is inserted. |
| 16:55.08 | resplin | I have examined the .vimrc on both systems, as well as the vimrc in /etc |
| 16:55.26 | resplin | I don't see anything which would appear to affect such a setting. |
| 16:55.38 | resplin | Any ideas how I can make my debian box stop inserting the space? |
| 16:58.16 | Newsome | reinstall redhat? |
| 16:58.25 | resplin | Yuck. |
| 16:58.29 | Newsome | :) |
| 16:58.33 | resplin | I can't say I'm happy with debian though. |
| 16:58.36 | resplin | ;) |
| 16:58.40 | Bradipo | I believe it's yum, not yuck. |
| 16:58.53 | resplin | Bradipo: aren't they synonyms? |
| 16:59.19 | Bradipo | Antonyms, but I was referring to the package management. :-) |
| 16:59.25 | hans | resplin: I don't see that behavior, and never have. |
| 17:00.15 | resplin | hans: that isn't encouraging. :) |
| 17:00.31 | resplin | I guess I need to call my vim vendor tech support hotline. |
| 17:00.50 | Newsome | 1-800-FIX-4-VIM |
| 17:01.10 | resplin | :) |
| 17:01.58 | Bradipo | I've never seen it do that either. |
| 17:02.49 | hans | resplin: try vim -u NONE |
| 17:02.56 | hans | and/or vim -U NONE |
| 17:03.53 | hans | does it do the same with a as with i? |
| 17:04.52 | Newsome | resplin: does it show anything with ":map" ? |
| 17:05.02 | resplin | hans: That corrects the behavior. Let me try renaming my vimrc and see what happens. |
| 17:05.05 | Newsome | or ":imap" ? |
| 17:05.32 | resplin | Hmm, it must be in my .vimrc. |
| 17:06.10 | hans | good to hear. Always happy to clear debian's name |
| 17:06.32 | Newsome | resplin: sounds like an issue with a map statement in your .vimrc |
| 17:07.18 | resplin | hans: Thanks for the help. |
| 17:07.37 | resplin | Newsome: yes it definitely is. I found the offending line. |
| 17:08.12 | resplin | I found a vimrc recipe that clears highlighting from the last text search whenever one enters insert mode. |
| 17:08.20 | resplin | That was adding the space. |
| 17:08.25 | resplin | Any ideas how to fix it? |
| 17:08.27 | resplin | Here it is: |
| 17:08.35 | resplin | set hls |
| 17:08.35 | resplin | nnoremap i :noh<CR>i |
| 17:09.11 | hans | sounds like there was just an extra space at the end of theline |
| 17:09.55 | resplin | Hans wins the million dollar prize! |
| 17:10.11 | resplin | hans: sometimes someone needs to point out the obvious for me to see it. |
| 17:10.22 | resplin | Thanks for the help everyone. |
| 17:11.28 | hans | well an extra space at the end of a line isn't exactly obvious. logical, yes. ;-) |
| 17:13.47 | Newsome | " make trailing whitespace obvious |
| 17:13.47 | Newsome | highlight RedundantWhitespace ctermbg=red guibg=red |
| 17:13.47 | Newsome | match RedundantWhitespace /\s\+$\| \+\ze\t/ |
| 17:14.06 | Newsome | makes it _much_ more obvious |
| 17:14.16 | resplin | Newsome: that's pretty slick. |
| 17:23.11 | tensai | while we're on the topic, I've got a strange vim behavior. whenever I launch an empty gvim (ie. no file specified), it comes up with a really wide font. |
| 17:23.27 | hans | I just $jjjjjjjj when I want to see where there's extra whitespace |
| 17:23.38 | tensai | completely ignores the set guifont in my .vimrc |
| 17:23.38 | hans | or :set list if I want to look at it for a whole lot |
| 17:23.55 | hans | tensai: but it works when you specify a file? |
| 17:24.11 | tensai | yeah |
| 17:25.30 | tensai | I mapped F9 to set guifont so I could have a quick escape. that works but sucks |
| 17:26.17 | resplin | hans: thanks for the ":set list" tip. That's a nice trick. |
| 17:27.31 | hans | tensai: that is very strange |
| 17:27.55 | tensai | just started happening one day. guess I never looked in my /etc/vimrc |
| 17:28.00 | hans | I've had that font problem before but not related to whether with a file or not |
| 17:28.04 | tensai | but at the very least it should honor my .vimrc |
| 17:28.18 | tensai | it's not the same font that it uses in a terminal either |
| 17:28.20 | hans | it had to do with whether the font I specified was available. :) |
| 17:28.47 | hans | set gfn should probably be in your .gvimrc |
| 17:29.04 | tensai | there's a .gvimrc? |
| 17:29.10 | hans | oh yes |
| 17:29.14 | hans | only sourced when you run gvim |
| 17:29.18 | tensai | " This will set the default font the UTF-8 environment |
| 17:29.18 | tensai | if $LC_CTYPE.$LANG =~ "UTF-8" |
| 17:29.18 | tensai | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:29.18 | tensai | endif |
| 17:29.25 | tensai | that's the icky font |
| 17:30.11 | hans | that's from /etc/vimrc? |
| 17:30.15 | tensai | well, putting "source .vimrc" into .gvimrc did the trick |
| 17:30.20 | tensai | from /etc/vim/gvimrc |
| 17:30.29 | hans | that's a terrible default. file a bug |
| 17:30.38 | hans | hmm, you shouldn't need to source .vimrc |
| 17:30.42 | hans | it's sourced anyway |
| 17:31.14 | hans | just move your set guifont line to .gvimrc. it doesn't really belong in vimrc (sounds like it's being overrridden by /etc/vim/gvimrc) |
| 17:32.23 | tensai | it's definitely source .vimrc because my maps are set. it must do .vimrc before /etc/gvimrc |
| 17:32.42 | tensai | so sourcing it from .gvimrc is a bit redundant |
| 17:35.18 | hans | yup |
| 17:36.10 | hans | I suspect gvim can't find that font (gtk2 doesn't like the old font specification method), so it falls back on its terrible default font |
| 17:36.21 | hans | which also seems to be a side effect of gtk2 |
| 17:44.55 | hans | i must admit I still don't understand why it only does it when you don't open a file. |
| 17:52.50 | *** join/#utah PingWhat (~chatzilla@204.110.225.167) |
| 17:54.25 | hans | I've found a new timesink. http://www.tmbw.net/ complete with peoples interpretations of what the heck that tmbg song means |
| 18:12.19 | Maquis | hans: this is a totally random question, but i've seen people using hexadecimal for the line numbers in emacs, and was wondering if that's possible in vim... |
| 18:13.35 | *** join/#utah joshc (~josh@65.37.125.194) |
| 18:17.44 | dawithers | Maquis, you mean without much effort on your own part to make it so? |
| 18:18.02 | Maquis | dawithers: i was wondering if there's a setting in my vimrc that would do that... |
| 18:20.36 | hans | I don't use line numbers, sorry |
| 18:20.45 | Maquis | hmmmm... mmmk |
| 18:21.03 | hans | I find them marginally useful. primarily in printed code listings for code reviews, which has nothing to do with vim. |
| 18:22.04 | Maquis | hans: yeah... i was thinking it might be moderately interesting... |
| 18:22.12 | Maquis | might even help me learn my hex numbers :) |
| 18:23.43 | hans | I think numbering in hex is pointless and silly, and so naturally if I were into having line numbers I would want them to be hex |
| 18:23.59 | Maquis | haha |
| 18:24.07 | hans | actually, there is a benefit - roughly 50% more numbers with the same number of digits. |
| 18:24.50 | Maquis | that, and the fact that you'd learn your hex numbers, right? :) |
| 18:25.31 | hans | oh, I know my hex numbers already. :) |
| 18:27.16 | Maquis | hans: i don't know them very well... they confuse me pretty easily... |
| 18:27.38 | Maquis | if i have a hex number, i have to sit there and try to calculate things to figure out what it is... |
| 18:28.17 | hans | well the key is to not try to translate to decimal |
| 18:30.55 | dawithers | the key is using them a lot |
| 18:31.02 | Maquis | how do you figure things out with it, then? i am just having a hard time with thinking in hex |
| 18:31.19 | hans | dawithers: that too. :) |
| 18:31.25 | hans | what do you use hex for? |
| 18:31.36 | dawithers | lame programming labs |
| 18:31.40 | dawithers | memory location mappig |
| 18:31.42 | dawithers | mapping* |
| 18:32.08 | dawithers | anyone in here a CS142 TA at BYU? |
| 18:32.10 | dawithers | haha |
| 18:32.16 | dawithers | erm CS124 i mean |
| 18:32.54 | Maquis | dawithers: no, but i've taken cs124 |
| 18:33.39 | dawithers | well that is how i have learned to deal with hex. commenting the lc-3 assembly output of the lcc compiler |
| 18:33.54 | Maquis | hahaha |
| 18:33.57 | dawithers | keeping track of the stack and dynamic links etc |
| 18:34.17 | dawithers | which just happens to be the lab i am in the middle of at the moment and it is driving me nuts |
| 18:34.24 | Maquis | dawithers: so, you're starting out on the CS track??? |
| 18:34.35 | dawithers | Maquis, comp engineering actually |
| 18:34.46 | Maquis | dawithers: ah... |
| 18:34.49 | dawithers | ECEn 124 :) |
| 18:34.51 | Maquis | fun fun fun... |
| 18:34.55 | hans | Maquis: anyway, my rhetorical question was meant to provoke the response "computer stuff" and that is why you need to think in hex. hex is a more human-convenient way to deal with binary numbers, as hex maps to binary quite nicely whereas decimal doesn't |
| 18:35.14 | dawithers | true |
| 18:35.23 | Maquis | hans: yeah.... i need to work on understanding it... |
| 18:35.25 | hans | hex for ordinal stuff that humans alone care about (like line numbers) makes about as much sense as base 15 |
| 18:35.32 | dawithers | haha |
| 18:35.39 | dawithers | mmmm base 15.....*drools* |
| 18:35.41 | hans | Maquis: just memorize the bit patterns. only 16 |
| 18:36.34 | dawithers | i still think its fun to count in binary on your hands |
| 18:36.43 | dawithers | just watch out for the number 4 |
| 18:36.52 | dawithers | might offend someone |
| 18:37.10 | Maquis | hans: i know most of those (sometimes have to think a bit...), but the confusing thing is that in one of my classes, my teacher keeps switching back and forth between using hex and decimal... |
| 18:37.26 | dawithers | yes that is annoying |
| 18:37.46 | dawithers | especially when they refer to like xC000 as "C-thousand" |
| 18:37.54 | dawithers | that drives me nuts |
| 18:38.57 | Maquis | see, it's more of a thing that we're dealing with the teacher going off about 0x3000 << 6 = 192 |
| 18:39.55 | Maquis | er... |
| 18:40.00 | Maquis | 0x3000 >> 6 |
| 18:40.01 | hans | that's some funky math |
| 18:40.01 | Maquis | right... |
| 18:40.04 | dawithers | haha |
| 18:40.06 | dawithers | i was gonna say.... |
| 18:40.15 | dawithers | unless there was some overflow goin on |
| 18:40.26 | Maquis | anyway, it's math where it's using hex on one side, and expecting decimal out on the other side... |
| 18:40.32 | hans | guess you have a genius professor who does hex->binary in his head. annoying. |
| 18:40.38 | dawithers | haha |
| 18:40.48 | Maquis | yeah... it's rather annoying |
| 18:40.54 | hans | just do it hex yourself. shifting is a great example |
| 18:41.10 | Maquis | yeah |
| 18:41.42 | hans | 0x3000 >> 6 is 0x00b0, right? |
| 18:42.03 | hans | er, not b |
| 18:42.08 | dawithers | c |
| 18:42.09 | dawithers | i think |
| 18:42.12 | dawithers | xc0 |
| 18:42.20 | dawithers | we are so cool |
| 18:42.39 | Maquis | yeah... whatever that is... :) |
| 18:42.43 | dawithers | haha |
| 18:42.49 | hans | so anyway, I have hex down pat, see? |
| 18:42.52 | dawithers | hahaha |
| 18:43.15 | Maquis | hans: :) |
| 18:43.19 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:43.56 | hans | speaking of hex, there ought to be a way to make a hexadecimal number out of arbitary ASCII text, that can be done in one's head |
| 18:44.02 | hans | e.g. for wep keys |
| 18:44.15 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:44.21 | dawithers | im at byu |
| 18:44.21 | Maquis | joshc: yup |
| 18:44.52 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:45.07 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:45.11 | Maquis | hmmm... people that are graduating this spring... |
| 18:45.11 | hans | joshc: where were you last year? |
| 18:45.12 | dawithers | haha |
| 18:45.36 | Maquis | joshc: do i get 100$ if i can tell you where to find the best students in the dept that are graduating this spring? |
| 18:45.44 | Maquis | (ie, places to look?) |
| 18:45.56 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (sjk36@allspice.ee.byu.edu) |
| 18:46.05 | SpecialK | ~lart Maquis |
| 18:46.10 | Maquis | i can't think of people who are graduating this spring, but i can think of ways that you could find out... |
| 18:46.11 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:46.14 | Maquis | ~lart SpecialK |
| 18:46.50 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:47.00 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:47.06 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:47.13 | Maquis | joshc: i'll see what i can find... i just don't know too many |
| 18:47.31 | dawithers | Maquis, good students? or graduating students |
| 18:47.40 | Maquis | dawithers: graduating students |
| 18:47.55 | dawithers | Maquis, :) |
| 18:48.03 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:48.15 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:48.20 | hans | joshc: if you gave me a list of graduating students I could probably tell you which ones are the ones that stood out |
| 18:48.23 | Maquis | joshc: yeah... but the ones i know of aren't graduating |
| 18:48.35 | Maquis | bbiab |
| 18:48.39 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:48.53 | hans | trouble is I don't know who's graduating that hasn't already |
| 18:49.11 | hans | they're all "younger" |
| 18:49.47 | hans | since I was the slacker who took forever to graduate while doing fun electives |
| 18:51.41 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:51.43 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:52.05 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:52.16 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:52.34 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:52.41 | dawithers | haha |
| 18:54.53 | SpecialK | ~praise assembly |
| 18:54.55 | ibot | All hail assembly! |
| 18:55.45 | dawithers | ~lart LC-3 assembly |
| 18:56.30 | dawithers | Maquis, i spent a good 10 minutes looking for a way to display line numbers in hex in vim ;-P |
| 18:58.22 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 19:01.16 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:01.20 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:02.00 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:10.20 | *** join/#utah ECS (~ecs@ecs-dell.byu.edu) |
| 19:14.35 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:14.57 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:15.34 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:16.18 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:16.33 | tensai | I'm not on the list so they cleaned it out since 2001 |
| 19:16.46 | dawithers | joshc, it probably includes everyone that is enrolled in a cs class |
| 19:16.51 | tensai | also any student that takes a CS class gets an account |
| 19:17.00 | dawithers | tensai, right |
| 19:17.23 | dawithers | accounts get disabled at the end of the semester and they supposedly have to be reactivated each semester |
| 19:17.59 | tensai | my website was up for a while after I graduated. but while I was a student it got disabled a few times. go figure. |
| 19:18.15 | hans | I thought that changed to give a couple of semesters before deactivation |
| 19:18.26 | tensai | a while meaning at least a year |
| 19:18.27 | hans | or something. anyway, I'm sure it's not current CS majors |
| 19:19.05 | dawithers | " * All accounts will be disabled prior to fall semester. If you continue to take CS classes, then you will be able to reactivate your account. Accounts will be removed after one year of inactivity. |
| 19:19.05 | dawithers | " |
| 19:19.13 | tensai | right. to get a list of cs majors you'd have to talk to the enrollment office who would be happy to send you their names, addresses and SSNs. |
| 19:19.17 | dawithers | so its before fall sem |
| 19:19.51 | tensai | well, there you go |
| 19:20.47 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:21.17 | tensai | only a bit. when I was there they did send out a list of all seniors to somebody and it included all their SSNs |
| 19:21.55 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:22.45 | tensai | I believe there's a bot that scans all the home directories for a public_html and then creates that page |
| 19:24.05 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:24.28 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:25.11 | tensai | probably just people who got bored with their webpage |
| 19:27.42 | dawithers | joshc, being a webmaster for a similar dept. it doesnt surprise me. pages that get regularly updated are the ones that present a need at the time. we don't have time to go through every page on the site and make sure its up-to-date. we just do the ones that need it when we find out they need it. |
| 19:28.40 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:28.59 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:28.59 | dawithers | 5700 cs students who have an account. meaning 5700 students who are taking a cs class |
| 19:29.15 | dawithers | i think that is easily believable |
| 19:29.55 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:29.59 | hans | hmm. apache gurus, I have a wquestion. apache-ssl. SSLEnable in the main part, SSLDisable in the port 80 virtualhosts. I tried to make a virtual host (IP-based) that doesn't specify SSLDisable, and apache refuses to start |
| 19:30.22 | hans | include SSLDisable and everything works (except ssl on that IP, of course) |
| 19:40.55 | me | is there a fancy name for computer language to computer language translation? |
| 19:41.13 | hans | compiling? |
| 19:41.22 | me | perl -> tcl |
| 19:41.23 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:41.26 | me | tcl -> perl |
| 19:41.27 | hans | code generation |
| 19:41.29 | me | tcl -> cobol |
| 19:41.31 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:41.42 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:41.53 | hans | perhaps, in the loose sense of it |
| 19:42.05 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:42.10 | hans | I usually think of an interpreter as actually executing it |
| 19:42.24 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:42.29 | hans | code generation is the term usually used. translation might work |
| 19:42.38 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 19:43.02 | sjansen | "If we don't win the legal battle, we will still have the cash level of a typical startup, but with more customers and technology than many of those." -- Darl McBride |
| 19:43.20 | sjansen | My translation: "We've shrunk to the size of startup, but that's a good thing." |
| 19:43.34 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:43.39 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:43.44 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:44.19 | me | yeah I'm talking about tcl => some other funky language |
| 19:44.31 | me | tcl => abstract syntax tree => other funky language |
| 19:44.42 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:44.53 | me | yes |
| 19:45.00 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 19:45.12 | me | but what is it called |
| 19:45.18 | me | code generation transliteration |
| 19:45.30 | me | it is similar to compiling |
| 19:45.53 | sjansen | translation, morphing |
| 19:47.37 | hans | I'd say translation above transliteration |
| 19:47.58 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:47.59 | hans | I still think compiling fits, but to many people that implies machine code. |
| 19:48.01 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:48.29 | sjansen | I'd bet on morphing. At least that's what transmeta calls it. |
| 19:48.48 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:48.55 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.05 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.21 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:50.58 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:51.52 | me | I'm sure there is a better way to do it |
| 19:52.00 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:52.13 | me | hah |
| 19:52.15 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:52.44 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:53.09 | sjansen | s/structure/design/ |
| 19:53.11 | me | compilers are an old concept not cutting edge research |
| 19:53.11 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:53.26 | me | no polymorphism |
| 19:53.29 | me | no objects even |
| 19:53.46 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:53.51 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:54.06 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:54.18 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:54.27 | sjansen | how similar is the destination language? |
| 19:55.09 | sjansen | tcl is a pretty simple language, but very extendable so it'd depend on how fancy you're getting |
| 19:55.12 | me | it's a superset of the converting from language |
| 19:55.30 | sjansen | but translating it doesn't seem nearly as difficult as the general case joshc is arguing |
| 19:55.31 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:55.37 | me | the source language is nasl (nessus attack scripting language) |
| 19:55.41 | me | and the dest will probably be tcl |
| 19:56.03 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:56.04 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:56.07 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:56.16 | sjansen | no, that's not porting |
| 19:56.19 | me | no it's not |
| 19:56.31 | me | I mean that would be a lot of work too |
| 19:56.35 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:56.45 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:57.07 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:57.38 | me | well the grammer should be somewhere in the source |
| 19:57.44 | me | I think he did it with flex or yacc |
| 19:57.57 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:58.04 | me | the developers |
| 19:58.07 | me | or developer |
| 19:58.09 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:58.20 | me | weren't you talking about the grammer? |
| 19:58.25 | me | and how I could find it |
| 19:58.32 | me | what was "find it" |
| 19:58.32 | sjansen | the macarena with it next to it |
| 19:58.51 | me | da me tu cuerpo alegria ibot |
| 19:58.55 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:59.09 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:59.13 | me | oh yeah I don't think I would find one either |
| 19:59.15 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:59.35 | sjansen | depending on the size of the code base, that's a stupid suggestion joshc |
| 19:59.38 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:59.54 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:59.57 | me | sjansen: good point the code base is somewhat big |
| 20:00.12 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:00.27 | me | nasl is pretty simple though |
| 20:00.37 | sjansen | in addition, it's going to be easier to verify that an automatted translation is correct (for sufficiently simple grammars like nasl appears to be) |
| 20:01.05 | sjansen | whereas a human translation, while more flexible is also more error prone |
| 20:01.31 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:01.47 | me | holy cow I'm agreeing with sjansen on this one |
| 20:02.13 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:02.22 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:02.42 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:02.45 | me | ok well thanks you guys were a lot more helpful than #texas |
| 20:02.50 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:02.52 | sjansen | you're assuming the translator isn't simple and the code base is |
| 20:03.08 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:03.15 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:03.53 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:03.58 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:04.03 | sjansen | no, I don't |
| 20:04.11 | me | master thesis? |
| 20:04.23 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:04.23 | sjansen | depends on the language |
| 20:04.52 | brailsmt | i have not read many phd thesis, but i have fed phds feces... |
| 20:04.59 | brailsmt | :D |
| 20:05.17 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:05.24 | sjansen | I wrote a very simple translator as an undergrad. Multiple that times what would have been possible as a full-time employee, compare to the cost of manually translating. Make a decision. |
| 20:05.33 | brailsmt | as in, fed feces to phds... |
| 20:05.33 | me | is cs431 the compiler class? |
| 20:05.46 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:06.06 | sjansen | me: yes |
| 20:06.27 | me | sjansen: don't you mean evidently (romanian accent) |
| 20:06.45 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:06.48 | sjansen | even if you can't make it 100%, an automated translator can handle grunt work |
| 20:06.52 | sjansen | witness asp2php |
| 20:07.29 | sjansen | I haven't closely examines nasl, but it looks pretty simple itself. |
| 20:07.49 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:08.44 | sjansen | asp has some pretty tricky features, I'm not talking about how long it took to write but the fact that it is useful for the grunt work of translating asp to php |
| 20:08.54 | sjansen | two languages with roughly similar design |
| 20:10.09 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:10.25 | sjansen | exactly |
| 20:10.33 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:11.02 | *** join/#utah RyanE (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:11.29 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:12.17 | sjansen | roughly 8000 lines of code, although written in C |
| 20:12.25 | sjansen | in perl, that coulda been much shorter |
| 20:13.23 | sjansen | but I seriously doubt that nasl is as complex as asp (asp2php has support for not just vbscript but also some support for jscript) |
| 20:13.38 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:14.50 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:15.48 | me | ahem I'm working here |
| 20:15.53 | me | on the first man hour anyway |
| 20:16.11 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:16.32 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:16.53 | *** join/#utah beandog (~sdibb@64.50.56.200) |
| 20:16.58 | beandog | ~lart tar |
| 20:17.01 | beandog | meh. |
| 20:17.05 | beandog | death to backups. |
| 20:21.36 | tensai | beandog: tar cf backup.tar $(find / -name \*.csv) |
| 20:21.40 | sjansen | Death do to code comments in German... or Dutch... whatever language that is! Death to it! |
| 20:22.36 | sjansen | tensai: coupla' problems with that |
| 20:22.54 | sjansen | 1) command length potentiall exceeding shell maximum |
| 20:23.08 | sjansen | 2) improper handling of filenames with spaces in them |
| 20:23.31 | sjansen | It'd be better to use xargs and null delimit the list, but I'm too lazy to give an example |
| 20:23.51 | tensai | in my defense, 1) not my problem and 2) not my problem |
| 20:41.19 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@thelances.net) |
| 20:44.57 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:45.12 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:45.15 | ibot | ACTION shoots joshc in the ear with a phase pistol! |
| 20:49.49 | *** part/#utah RyanE (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:04.22 | beandog | tensai: thanks, but I settled on zip |
| 21:13.01 | beandog | I dont see why tar makes it so complicated. |
| 21:13.54 | beandog | enlighten me |
| 21:15.01 | brailsmt | how do I get the length of a string in shell? |
| 21:16.42 | sjansen | man bash (search by typing /length) |
| 21:18.40 | sjansen | btw, I know the answers there because I'm staring at it, took < 5 seconds to find |
| 21:19.38 | brailsmt | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:19.39 | brailsmt | ? |
| 21:19.44 | sjansen | ay yup |
| 21:19.47 | beandog | I never get answers staring at sjansen either |
| 21:21.03 | brailsmt | [brailsmt]$ foo=`which ypcat` |
| 21:21.03 | brailsmt | cwd: /opt/MTenav_share/etc |
| 21:21.03 | brailsmt | [brailsmt]$ if [ ${#$foo} -gt 1 ]; then echo foo; fi |
| 21:21.03 | brailsmt | -bash: ${#$foo}: bad substitution |
| 21:22.24 | sjansen | [ "z$foo" != "z" ] && echo foo |
| 21:22.48 | brailsmt | sjansen: that is too sly... |
| 21:22.57 | sjansen | that's the traditional way of doing what you're trying, with the advantage of being more portable |
| 21:23.19 | brailsmt | foo=`which ypcat`; if [ ${#foo} -gt 1 ]; then echo foo; fi |
| 21:23.27 | brailsmt | that works :) |
| 21:23.31 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (~chatzilla@c-67-161-243-72.client.comcast.net) |
| 21:23.42 | brailsmt | foo=which; if [ ${#foo} -gt 1 ]; then echo foo; fi |
| 21:23.49 | brailsmt | that being the other case... |
| 21:23.58 | brailsmt | now I have that solved, your solution is better... |
| 21:24.02 | brailsmt | :) |
| 21:25.31 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:25.42 | brailsmt | GI BLOWS!!! |
| 21:26.16 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:28.55 | Lone_Wanderer | Anyone here know javascript? |
| 21:29.10 | hans | met him once |
| 21:29.54 | sjansen | fun at parties |
| 21:30.17 | hans | when you get him worked up, he'll do cool things like dynamic menus |
| 21:30.18 | sjansen | Lone_Wanderer: A better approach would just be to just ask your question. |
| 21:30.49 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah, I'm actually having several conversations at the moment though |
| 21:30.57 | sjansen | That way no one has to say the do, then ignore you if they get busy. Or avoid saying they do in case the question is too complex. |
| 21:31.07 | Lone_Wanderer | how do I include javascript in with my html? <script language="javascript"> ? |
| 21:31.20 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-181.client.comcast.net) |
| 21:32.48 | sjansen | Could you restate the question? As it stands, look like your question includes the answer, so there's got to be some qualifiers. |
| 21:33.23 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm just wondering if that's the correct way to do it or not. Is it language="javascript" ? type="javascript" ? |
| 21:33.50 | sjansen | If you want a syntax question, consult the standard at w3c.org |
| 21:34.27 | sjansen | It'll take me just as long to double check as it'll take you to find the answer yourself. |
| 21:34.35 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 21:35.28 | Lone_Wanderer | would it be under html? |
| 21:35.38 | sjansen | There's some subtelties, but you're probably best just going with the generic answer. |
| 21:36.44 | sjansen | that'll get you there |
| 21:36.58 | Lone_Wanderer | eh? that a yes then? |
| 21:38.52 | sjansen | you'll have to drill down a bit, but the experience'll put hair on your chest |
| 21:39.42 | sjansen | the answers in multiple places, so don't worry about figure out which is "the right one" |
| 21:40.37 | tensai | what he means is yes, <script language="javascript"> is correct |
| 21:40.38 | sjansen | although starting to ask yourself questions like "am I using html 4.01 or xhtml 1.0?" and "what is xhtml 1.1?" will be good for you |
| 21:41.02 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:41.03 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:41.05 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:41.07 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:41.14 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:41.18 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:41.27 | sjansen | and you'll get alot of trash |
| 21:41.32 | hans | even better, search for "tcl tk tutorial" |
| 21:41.42 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:41.43 | sjansen | although with the recent rise of ajax that should change over the course of this year |
| 21:41.48 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:42.04 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:43.00 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:43.11 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:43.41 | sjansen | no relation |
| 21:43.44 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:43.45 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:43.52 | sjansen | in addtion, he asked for the correct answer |
| 21:44.05 | sjansen | if he wanted any answer, he could just grabbed that from anywhere |
| 21:44.09 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:44.13 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:44.48 | sjansen | if you're doing Web development, the first thing you should do is become familiar with w3.org |
| 21:44.57 | sjansen | otherwise you'll lay a trail of carnage behind you for years |
| 21:45.14 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:45.36 | Lone_Wanderer | all I want is to total up some values and stick it into a field, after the submit button is clicked but before the form actually gets submitted |
| 21:45.36 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:46.23 | sjansen | the problem is that the Web is wasteland of bad advice and misleading books written by people stuck in 1995 |
| 21:46.30 | goozbach | joshc: and with web-devlopment? |
| 21:46.46 | tensai | Lone_Wanderer: just don't rely on that value for anything important. very easy to forge. |
| 21:46.48 | goozbach | I agree that the first place to go is w3c |
| 21:46.58 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:47.09 | Lone_Wanderer | sjansen: the html I'm working with is so far from validating, under any standard, that the question currently is not "Am I using 4.01 or xhtml 1.0" but "Which of the horrible broken parts do I fix first?" |
| 21:47.25 | tensai | the place most likely to have the correct answer in a form you'll never be able to decipher is w3c |
| 21:47.34 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:47.46 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm not worried about anyone forging anything. This is all going on a corporate intranet. |
| 21:48.06 | sjansen | actually, I find w3c very approachable, but then I also enjoy RFCs |
| 21:48.22 | goozbach | I enjoy rfcs as well |
| 21:48.30 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:48.47 | tensai | Lone_Wanderer: just something to keep in mind then. since javascript is run client side it can always go wrong. |
| 21:48.50 | Lone_Wanderer | w3c is a great resource if you're interested in the specs, but if you're trying to actually get something *done*, in a reasonable amount of time, and are starting from scratch |
| 21:49.04 | dataw0lf | what exactly are you trying to do? |
| 21:49.21 | hans | w3c is like the nutshell books. some of us prefer that |
| 21:49.32 | Lone_Wanderer | all I want is to total up some values and stick it into a field, after the submit button is clicked but before the form actually gets submitted |
| 21:49.53 | Lone_Wanderer | oh, and if I could conditionally enable or disable a checkbox, that would be fantastic. |
| 21:50.27 | Lone_Wanderer | but if push comes to shove I could do that server side |
| 21:50.48 | dataw0lf | write a function in javascript to add up the values, and then call it through onclick. |
| 21:51.08 | Lone_Wanderer | right |
| 21:51.26 | sjansen | I'd argue that onsubmit would be better. |
| 21:51.39 | sjansen | onclick assumes the use of the mouse |
| 21:53.18 | *** part/#utah resplin (~richard@65-100-253-172.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 21:53.21 | Lone_Wanderer | how do I assign the value of the variable I use to tally up the value to the field in question? Is a simple "document.total.value = mmr_total;" sufficient, or do I need something else in there? |
| 21:53.44 | sjansen | almost there |
| 21:54.03 | sjansen | document.form.field.value should do it for you, unless you've got something wacky going on |
| 21:55.27 | *** part/#utah ECS (~ecs@ecs-dell.byu.edu) |
| 21:55.29 | Lone_Wanderer | form = the name of whatever <form> tag this particular field is within? |
| 21:56.32 | Lone_Wanderer | well, it's not dying horribly. now to get more than one value in on the action. |
| 21:58.19 | *** join/#utah lukfugl (~lukfugl@host-19.pl107798-3.fiber.net) |
| 21:58.25 | lukfugl | hey'all |
| 21:58.26 | hans | ~lart lukfugl |
| 21:58.31 | lukfugl | ~lart hans |
| 21:58.36 | tensai | ~lart slackware |
| 21:59.48 | lukfugl | anyone in here know where I can get an up-to-date libxml2 ( >= 2.6.12 ) for SuSE? rpmfind.net only has up to 2.6.7 for SuSE, but 2.6.18 for Fedora |
| 22:01.10 | Lone_Wanderer | bugger all. it's adding them as strings, not as ints. |
| 22:01.43 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:02.12 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:02.21 | lukfugl | ~lart SuSE |
| 22:02.33 | lukfugl | that's not good enough, ibot |
| 22:02.39 | lukfugl | ~kill SuSE |
| 22:02.41 | ibot | ACTION shoots a magneto-ionized positrino gun at SuSE |
| 22:02.55 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:03.03 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:03.18 | Lone_Wanderer | I bet it doesn't even know what a magneto-ionized positrino gun is. |
| 22:05.23 | sjansen | Sure you don't want to just learn JS? |
| 22:05.26 | Lone_Wanderer | how do you use parseint, joshc ? |
| 22:05.39 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm more or less learning it as we speak. |
| 22:05.44 | sjansen | poorly |
| 22:05.49 | Lone_Wanderer | yes |
| 22:05.52 | Lone_Wanderer | poorly |
| 22:06.28 | sjansen | You'd learn better by finding a good book. Too bad Mozilla doesn't have the old DevEdge content up yet. |
| 22:06.31 | Lone_Wanderer | reading through the w3schools tutorial though, which I hope is better than nothing. it doesn't seem to tell me how to force this to be an int instead of a string though. |
| 22:06.46 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't have time to pick up a good book on the subject :( |
| 22:06.51 | sjansen | w3schools barely scratches the surface, I rarely find them useful |
| 22:06.55 | *** join/#utah HarleyPig (~smoothsel@65.73.113.162) |
| 22:06.59 | lukfugl | Lone_Wanderer: var intValue = parseInt( stringValue ); |
| 22:07.19 | lukfugl | isNaN( intValue ) to test whether the conversion failed |
| 22:07.20 | HarleyPig | Is nickserv down? |
| 22:07.44 | Lone_Wanderer | thanks |
| 22:07.51 | HarleyPig | And does anyone know of a good j2me jabber client I can install on a Blackberry and tell me how to install it? |
| 22:08.17 | lukfugl | ~lart SuSE more |
| 22:08.26 | sjansen | heh, at least HarleyPig knows how to ask a specific question |
| 22:08.30 | lukfugl | more in half, as opposed to less in half |
| 22:08.45 | Lone_Wanderer | well, now it's making it an int, but it's chopping off the decimal places |
| 22:08.53 | HarleyPig | heh |
| 22:08.54 | lukfugl | parseFloat then |
| 22:08.58 | Lone_Wanderer | thanks |
| 22:09.50 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:09.53 | Lone_Wanderer | yay! it works |
| 22:09.57 | sjansen | no kidding |
| 22:10.18 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:10.32 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:12.05 | lukfugl | gah. Doesn't rpmfind have *any* up-to-date SuSE rpms? |
| 22:12.30 | lukfugl | newest readline is 4.3, I need 5.0 |
| 22:12.38 | Lone_Wanderer | thanks for the help folks |
| 22:12.54 | lukfugl | I am soooo ready to take this stupid box home and install a real distrobution over the weekend |
| 22:13.19 | hans | I'll bring my ubuntu CD! |
| 22:14.40 | sjansen | rpmfind has, sadly, become largely irrelevant |
| 22:15.07 | *** join/#utah ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 22:15.07 | *** mode/#utah [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 22:15.09 | sjansen | thankfully services like apt4rpm and yum make it less important |
| 22:15.14 | lukfugl | sjansen: what's the favored site now? |
| 22:15.18 | sjansen | oh, wait, you're using SUSE? |
| 22:15.43 | HarleyPig | I found mjabber but it's just a jar and a jad ... I seem to need an alx and a cod file. Anyone know how to convert a jad/jar to a alx/cod ? |
| 22:16.13 | hans | I can make a prd out of a slb but I don't know about jad and alx |
| 22:16.14 | lukfugl | yeah, tell me about it |
| 22:16.21 | HarleyPig | heh |
| 22:17.12 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:17.15 | *** part/#utah joshc (~josh@65.37.125.194) |
| 22:17.19 | HarleyPig | My boss bought me a Blackberry so I could stay in touch (fix things, support, that kind of thing) and I've been able to get a ssh session over the phone, now I'd like to get a IM going (but not SMS ... that's expensive--if I can get a GPRS client it'll be free). |
| 22:18.11 | tensai | btlbee? |
| 22:19.50 | HarleyPig | hmmm.... hadn't thought of that ... i'd still have to instal an IRC client on my phone ... wonder if I can find a GPRS based irc client. |
| 22:20.55 | tensai | I was figured you would ssh and use irsii or bitchx |
| 22:22.49 | lukfugl | Ok, so I can't upgrade to readline-5.0, since I've got about a bajillion packages that seem to think they need 4 explicitly |
| 22:22.56 | lukfugl | can I just go home now? :( |
| 22:23.42 | sjansen | lukfugl: yes, if you punch your boss on the way out he won't mind your leaving |
| 22:23.46 | HarleyPig | tensai: ssh over the phone is ... less than interesting. Only reason I set it up is so I could restart services, for which I wrote shell scripts. |
| 22:24.49 | HarleyPig | keystrokes are limited to a-z0-9 and some symbols. Remaining charset is available but at increasing depths. |
| 22:25.40 | lukfugl | anyone see potential drawbacks to ignoring the dependencies and installing 5.0, then symlink libreadline.so.5 as libreadline.so.4? |
| 22:26.01 | tensai | lukfugl: I doubt it'll work |
| 22:26.19 | tensai | HarleyPig: well that blows. finding an irc client might be easier than an IM one. |
| 22:27.50 | HarleyPig | well, finding any client that uses GPRS instead of SMS would be required ... .05 a message would get expensive quick. |
| 22:28.04 | HarleyPig | Especially with irc. |
| 22:28.10 | sjansen | how about going the other way? extract the readline5 files and --nodeps the package that needs 5 (since you're on the edge of insanity anyway) |
| 22:29.34 | lukfugl | sjansen: how do I do that? I have about ->||<- that much experience with rpms |
| 22:30.01 | sjansen | rpm2cpio will get you started |
| 22:30.12 | lukfugl | rpm -i and rpmbuild -ba are all I've ever used, aside from yast's %!$@ gui |
| 22:32.00 | lukfugl | (baffled) so what do I do with a cpio archive, now? |
| 22:33.55 | sjansen | the same thing you'd do with any cpio archive |
| 22:35.29 | sjansen | curse the developers of cpio a couple of times, then read the man page to rediscover what flag extracts files |
| 22:35.54 | lukfugl | yeah, I found the archiver command -- that's the part I wasn't sure about |
| 22:45.15 | lukfugl | ok, I think I got that, and now I forced libxml-2.6.17 to install |
| 22:45.38 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@c-67-161-213-34.client.comcast.net) |
| 22:45.54 | hans | will... not... bash... redhat... |
| 22:46.10 | hans | ^redhat^rpm-based distros^ |
| 22:46.36 | hans | is that when you give it tome? |
| 22:46.47 | mheath | Haha. |
| 22:46.51 | mheath | Ugh, RPM is horrible. |
| 22:47.49 | lukfugl | and now I can go back to the ./configure that required libxml2 >= 2.6.12 |
| 22:47.54 | me | ~lart RPM |
| 22:48.07 | mheath | jxmlpkg > * :D |
| 22:48.08 | lukfugl | 90 minutes later, grrr |
| 22:48.38 | lukfugl | gah |
| 22:49.09 | lukfugl | before it was saying need libxml2 libraries >= 2.6.12, found 2.6.7, now it says it can't find any |
| 22:50.37 | mheath | for all you RPM haters: http://sourceforge.net/projects/jxmlpkg |
| 22:50.53 | mheath | I've been busy, and have a bunch of code done that needs to be checked into CVS... |
| 22:51.20 | mheath | should be a testing release by the end of April |
| 22:51.23 | hans | hmm. I dont' know if I'd rather deal with RPM or deal with installing java |
| 22:51.42 | hans | unless of course it works with gcj |
| 22:51.54 | mheath | hans, I plan to make a C-based variant of the installer tool |
| 22:51.57 | me | hehe gcj yeah! |
| 22:52.17 | mheath | I just found java best to work with right now, because A) coding it in java gets me credit for a class, and B) porting is easier |
| 22:53.13 | mheath | These packages will work in Windows, Linux, Mac OS X (eventually), and others |
| 22:54.04 | mheath | Obviously, either A) The package has to be made to support all those OS's / arches, or B) You'd have to make multiple packages |
| 22:54.22 | sjansen | like debian is any better |
| 22:54.31 | sjansen | each has it's strengths |
| 22:55.19 | mheath | sjansen, what does debian have to do with anything? Who mentioned debian? |
| 22:55.25 | sjansen | hans |
| 22:55.45 | mheath | xmlpkg has all their strenghts combined. |
| 22:55.55 | tensai | he didn't come right out and say it, but you knew hans was thinking it |
| 22:56.03 | sjansen | any time hans mentions rpm or rh, he appends a silent comment about debian at the end |
| 22:56.32 | mheath | xmlpkg > deb :) |
| 22:56.52 | sjansen | mheath: except for one, lots of packages };-) |
| 22:57.45 | sjansen | of course, trowing around comments like "Ugh, RPM is horrible." doesn't exactly give you much credibility in my book |
| 22:57.46 | mheath | sjansen, with my tools you'll be able to convert most other package formats into xmlpkg |
| 22:58.06 | me | you writing a book? |
| 22:58.18 | mheath | sjansen, RPM is ok, I used kinda strong words. |
| 22:58.39 | tensai | MSI is the way to go |
| 22:58.40 | mheath | Can't help saying that. I'm writing a program almost entirely because I got pissed off with RPM. |
| 22:58.58 | mheath | Too messy and limiting. |
| 23:02.08 | hans | I blogged the gpg-agent setup |
| 23:16.24 | lukfugl | 1.1.13 > 1.1.2, right? |
| 23:17.02 | lukfugl | in versioning |
| 23:18.27 | mheath | yep |
| 23:18.38 | *** join/#utah nathangg- (~nathangg-@nathan.byu.edu) |
| 23:19.35 | nathangg- | question: i try to install mysql using yum (on FC3), but it intsalls mysql 3.23.X. The latest recommended version of mysql on mysql.com is 4.1.X. How come yum doesn't install 4.1.X? |
| 23:21.51 | *** join/#utah Peregrine (~lamontp@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 23:22.15 | sjansen | because redhat/the fedora project don't package it |
| 23:22.26 | sjansen | licensing issues that've only recently been resolved |
| 23:23.08 | goozbach | and yet people are going to blame rh/fc for that problem... |
| 23:23.14 | lukfugl | ok, libgcrypt.so.7 exists (in /usr/lib/) but rpm claims I can't install dirmngr-... because it needs libgcrypt.so.7? |
| 23:23.25 | nathangg- | okay... well, here is the root of my problem, I'm trying to install the php-mysql package using yum, but I get the following error: --> Processing Conflict: mysql conflicts MySQL (I think it is because yum is wanting to install mysql 3.23 when I already have mysql 4.1) |
| 23:23.28 | nathangg- | how do I get around that? |
| 23:23.51 | sjansen | by not using mysql? |
| 23:24.20 | nathangg- | I want to use mysql 4.1... but yum is trying to install mysql 3.23 (when I already have mysql 4.1 installed) |
| 23:24.26 | nathangg- | how do I tell yum not to do that? |
| 23:24.39 | sjansen | by not installing a version of php the requires it |
| 23:25.08 | nathangg- | so, the php-mysql requires mysql 3.23 ? |
| 23:25.16 | mrpull | or grab the php-mysql rpm by hand and do rpm -Uvh --nodeps |
| 23:25.18 | nathangg- | (the php-mysql package i mean) |
| 23:25.30 | sjansen | or rebuilt the php-mysql package |
| 23:25.35 | nathangg- | hmmm |
| 23:25.41 | nathangg- | or use mysql 3.23 |
| 23:25.51 | nathangg- | what version of mysql do you guys use? |
| 23:25.57 | mrpull | FWIW, FC4 test packages mysql4.1 |
| 23:26.03 | sjansen | or point out to the mysql developers that they should be calling their software mysql not MySQL if they're going to claim it workins on rh/fc |
| 23:26.36 | mrpull | sjansen: I don't get it? why do the caps matter? <missing the boat> |
| 23:26.46 | sjansen | just the way rpm works |
| 23:28.35 | goozbach | most people bash rpm and just leave it at that |
| 23:29.04 | goozbach | and the problem isn't entirely rpm's fault |
| 23:29.50 | goozbach | what you should be upset at is the fact that all installs are not monolithic on UNIX/Linux |
| 23:30.07 | goozbach | which IMO is a good thing |
| 23:33.16 | nathangg- | okay, I did some searching, it appears that the default install of php on FC3 doesn't have mysql enabled... So when I try to enable it, it chokes because yum is wanting to install msyql 3.23 when I already have mysql 4.1... i'm kind of new at this... so, if I re-compile php to work with mysql 4.1, is that going to cause problems in the future when I use yum to upgrade stuff? |
| 23:33.35 | nathangg- | specifically, when I try to upgrade php? |
| 23:34.07 | sjansen | depends, security update or distro upgrade? |
| 23:34.24 | goozbach | re-compiling an rpm... not if you do the release/version correctly |
| 23:34.30 | Peregrine | nathangg-: I have MySQL 4.1.10 packages (need to build the 4.1.10a) for FC/RHEL. I have been building my own since 4.0.4 or something like that. The big problem is that there was a slight change in the C function call for the shutdown the connection function, as of 4.1.4 (IIRC). If you already have mysql 4.1 packages, then all you need to do is build your own php packages (against the mysql-devel-4.1.x package) and install the php-mysql you get |
| 23:34.30 | Peregrine | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.31 | sjansen | you'll be on your own for security, but now that the legal issues have been resolved fc4 will use mysql 4.1 also |
| 23:34.50 | goozbach | compiling from source... good luck. |
| 23:34.56 | nathangg- | I don't know the difference... |
| 23:35.24 | sjansen | just ask Peregrine nicely for his packages |
| 23:35.44 | nathangg- | okay, looks like it might be easier if I just use mysql 3.23, I won't have to compile my own stuff and upgrading using yum in the future should be relatively simple, right? |
| 23:35.45 | sjansen | and if you're using fc on a server you're crazy, btw |
| 23:36.09 | nathangg- | sjansen: what should I be using the a server? Debian? |
| 23:36.24 | sjansen | or cent os |
| 23:36.44 | sjansen | or rhel or suse if you have the money |
| 23:36.50 | Peregrine | NO. Not deb. OK, seriously though, what distro are you using for development? For desktop? Which do you know the best? |
| 23:36.54 | sjansen | s/suse/sles/ |
| 23:36.59 | nathangg- | hmmm... here's my problem, I'm a windows user trying to become proficient at linux server stuff |
| 23:37.12 | Peregrine | CentOS 4 is pretty good. |
| 23:37.14 | nathangg- | someone said "FC3" is a good start |
| 23:37.20 | nathangg- | so, i put FC3 on my server |
| 23:37.23 | sjansen | for desktop use, not for server |
| 23:37.30 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@byu074602wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 23:38.00 | Peregrine | The only problem with FC3 for server is that you will have to upgrade the distro release or stop getting security updates in about another 5 months (I would guess). |
| 23:38.40 | Peregrine | sjansen: I am planning on putting my MySQL 4.1 & PHP 5 packages up, once a certain piece of hardware makes it int oa certain data center :). |
| 23:38.45 | sjansen | which is a major problem for any server used as much more than a toy |
| 23:38.53 | lukfugl | ok, what fedora package do I need for libldap-2.2 and/or liblber-2.2? I've been feeding Fedora packages to rpm command line and it's been eating them right up, but the only libldap packages on rpmfind are mandrake |
| 23:39.15 | lukfugl | and even there they're only 2.1 |
| 23:39.23 | nathangg- | does centos come with something to make installation of other packages easy? my experience with yum has been a positive one |
| 23:40.06 | emcnabb | nathangg-, look into up2date |
| 23:40.15 | *** join/#utah mooneroid (~mooneroid@jmoon.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 23:40.20 | nathangg- | k |
| 23:40.28 | emcnabb | that's what RHEL uses; up2date is actually based off of yum |
| 23:40.34 | sjansen | libldap? that's not a rh naming style |
| 23:41.04 | sjansen | openldap and openldap-server is more rh style |
| 23:41.09 | lukfugl | sjansen: libldap-2.2.so.7 is needed by dirmngr-0.5.5-3.1 |
| 23:41.15 | Peregrine | nathangg-: I use yum with CentOS, works great. |
| 23:41.24 | lukfugl | so libldap is the file, not package. I needed to know what package |
| 23:41.32 | sjansen | ah |
| 23:41.37 | Peregrine | brb. |
| 23:41.52 | sjansen | openldap-client perhaps? |
| 23:41.57 | lukfugl | just straight ldap didn't work, but openldap looks like what I need |
| 23:43.04 | nathangg- | do I want centos 4 or centos 4.0? |
| 23:45.49 | mrpull | does anyone have a Cisco WIC-1ENET card I can buy/borrow? |
| 23:47.38 | Tene | I have an empty water bottle. |
| 23:48.18 | sjansen | with a little tin foil and a mcgyver that might just work |
| 23:48.34 | mrpull | sweet. thanks for the heads up :) |
| 23:52.07 | sjansen | "No native WebEx client is available for your platform. |
| 23:52.07 | sjansen | What does this mean? |
| 23:52.08 | sjansen | It means we have not yet released WebEx software specifically for your platform." |
| 23:54.04 | lukfugl | HALLELUJAH |
| 23:54.36 | lukfugl | I finally got it to work (the ./configure) anyways... that shouldn't have taken > 2 hours |
| 23:56.47 | lukfugl | nooo... the make failed with undefined references in libxml2.so :( |
