| 00:10.00 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 00:27.34 | Maquis | ~hug jabber |
| 00:27.39 | ibot | ACTION hugs jabber |
| 00:34.59 | levi | hans: Why did you decide it was time to grok dependency injection? |
| 00:36.12 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~chatzilla@128.187.254.128) |
| 00:39.29 | hans | levi: because I think it might be useful in something I'm writing |
| 00:39.36 | hans | but I couldn't be sure until I grokked it. |
| 00:39.38 | *** part/#utah hatchmt (~hatchmt@host62-52.nersc.us) |
| 00:39.46 | levi | Have you grokked it, then? |
| 00:39.53 | hans | yes, but now I have to go. |
| 00:40.32 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 00:40.34 | levi | Alas. |
| 00:40.54 | levi | hans: Maybe you can explain how it will/will not be useful to you some other time, then. |
| 00:49.12 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 01:26.55 | emcnabb | I'm syncing my Treo over the 'net to mcnabbs.org |
| 01:27.06 | emcnabb | it's slow though |
| 01:27.09 | emcnabb | very |
| 01:27.21 | Maquis | :) |
| 01:29.36 | emcnabb | it's sad when tranfer speeds are in bytes / sec |
| 01:29.44 | Maquis | ick!!! |
| 01:29.57 | Maquis | ~lart virtual memory |
| 01:34.39 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@c-67-161-213-34.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:36.52 | mheath | https://sourceforge.net/projects/jxmlpkg/ |
| 01:38.23 | mheath | all the existing source code is stuck on my computer at school, it will be on there tomorrow |
| 01:38.40 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (~xbmodder@adsl-67-117-130-251.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 01:38.46 | xbmodder_lappy | where is joshc |
| 01:39.02 | mheath | He disappeared. |
| 01:39.20 | xbmodder_lappy | really? |
| 01:45.09 | xbmodder_lappy | irony a hacker working for: Javelin Strategy & Research provides research-based strategic direction for financial services, payments, e-commerce, and identity fraud. Javelin rigorously researches technology issues, industry trends, attitudes and activities of consumers, small businesses, institutions, processors, merchants, billers, and other organizations in order to deliver relevant, high-impact strategic guidance. |
| 01:50.46 | *** join/#utah Tene (~tene@c-67-182-199-40.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:51.07 | mheath | I'll return in just a moment |
| 01:54.53 | xbmodder_lappy | sure |
| 01:59.58 | Maquis | hmmm.. |
| 02:00.12 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 02:00.39 | Maquis | on the side of the cheez-it box, there's a picture of a cheez-it with the note "not actual size" |
| 02:00.50 | Maquis | however, it is exactly the same size as a cheez-it... |
| 02:04.43 | findlay | $ identify -format %w:%h:%x:%y 46.rotated.big.tiff |
| 02:04.44 | findlay | 4725:6750:600 PixelsPerInch:600 PixelsPerInch |
| 02:04.48 | findlay | $ ls -lh 44.rotated.big.tiff |
| 02:04.48 | findlay | -rw-r--r-- 1 justin justin 3.9M Mar 14 14:01 44.rotated.big.tiff |
| 02:04.51 | findlay | why??? |
| 02:05.04 | findlay | it's black and white |
| 02:10.15 | findlay | what image format should I store a B&W image as so that it minimizes memory? |
| 02:10.29 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:14.49 | Maquis | findlay: i think if you open it up in the Gimp, you can set it as a "b&w" image... |
| 02:14.51 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@c-67-161-213-34.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:15.08 | Maquis | it probably is encoded as a color image that happens to only have black and white... |
| 02:15.16 | findlay | looks like I'll try png Maquis |
| 02:15.24 | Maquis | mmk |
| 02:15.36 | findlay | I'm thinking it's something to do with it being a tiff |
| 02:15.48 | Maquis | possibly... |
| 02:16.08 | findlay | 659K Mar 14 19:14 46.rotated.little.png |
| 02:16.41 | findlay | pretty big, but a few times smaller than 3.6 M |
| 02:19.21 | findlay | hans: I may have finally solved my microphone difficulties (: |
| 02:19.41 | findlay | at least for my specialized purposes |
| 02:20.42 | findlay | I just need a 1/8" patch cord to splice with the phone handset I got (: |
| 02:21.18 | findlay | well, two 1/8" ends actually... |
| 02:29.15 | Tene | okay, I've got a problem here |
| 02:29.48 | Tene | some autosomething isn't setting something up right with regards to some X library |
| 02:30.03 | Tene | specifically, It's complaining about this: |
| 02:30.09 | Tene | undefined reference to `XF86VidModeQueryVersion' |
| 02:30.17 | Tene | undefined reference to `XF86VidModeGetModeLine' |
| 02:31.48 | Tene | [LDFLAGS="-L/usr/X11R6/lib" ./configure] is a suggestion I recieved, but it didn't change anything. |
| 02:34.29 | *** join/#utah markl_ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:37.30 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 02:37.47 | *** join/#utah beandog (~steve@c-67-182-214-140.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:37.58 | *** join/#utah markl_ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:43.51 | Maquis | hmmm... |
| 02:43.52 | Maquis | that's odd... |
| 02:44.01 | beandog | Not really. |
| 02:44.24 | beandog | I'm only using bleeding edge software, loading weird modules, and spending hundreds of dollars on hardware that just might possibly work on Linux. |
| 02:44.25 | beandog | :) |
| 02:44.29 | beandog | I'm glad I got even this far. |
| 02:44.52 | Maquis | oh... i wasn't actually referring to your problem... |
| 02:44.59 | beandog | Oh |
| 02:45.04 | Maquis | but yeah... it is good that you got this far... |
| 02:45.05 | Maquis | :) |
| 02:45.11 | Maquis | sorry... |
| 02:45.12 | Maquis | :) |
| 02:45.14 | beandog | heh |
| 02:45.17 | beandog | s'all good. |
| 02:46.28 | beandog | Oh |
| 02:46.30 | beandog | Whats your project? |
| 02:46.37 | Maquis | virtual memory implementation |
| 02:46.42 | tensai | did you hear her? it's a puzzle. |
| 02:46.55 | Maquis | ~lart tensai |
| 02:49.01 | beandog | heh |
| 02:50.46 | findlay | beandog: could be something simple, like unmuting the microphone capture channel |
| 02:51.07 | mheath | Argh, I hate gentoo's mirrorselect |
| 02:51.15 | xbmodder_lappy | helo? |
| 02:51.36 | beandog | No, its not that. |
| 02:51.40 | mheath | Seems like it randomly decides to choose some random mirror in France or _________, which, at all other times, is either A) not available/timesout or B) Very Slow |
| 02:51.46 | beandog | I can't figure out how to pass the adevice argument |
| 02:51.56 | beandog | mheath, use mine |
| 02:52.06 | beandog | GENTOO_MIRRORS="ftp://gentoo.chem.wisc.edu/gentoo/ ftp://gentoo.mirrors.pair.com/ ftp://gentoo.ccccom.com ftp://mirrors.tds.net/gentoo ftp://gentoo.netnitco.net/pub/mirrors/gentoo/source/ ftp://ftp.ndlug.nd.edu/pub/gentoo/ ftp://chod.cwru.edu/gentoo ftp://linux.cs.lewisu.edu/gentoo/" |
| 02:52.22 | mheath | Nah, I just won't worry about it |
| 02:54.05 | mheath | While gentoo doesn't tend to provide that much speed increase over generic compiled-for-486 stuff.... |
| 02:54.24 | mheath | I'm doing some 3d development and rendering, and since this is a slow box I want to squeeze every last drop of preformance I can get out of it |
| 02:54.48 | beandog | tweak your kernel |
| 02:54.53 | findlay | mheath: you can setup your make.conf with mirrorselect to select the fastest mirrors |
| 02:54.56 | mheath | I will. |
| 02:55.15 | mheath | findlay: I know this |
| 02:55.29 | beandog | tweak your USE flags. :) |
| 02:55.33 | findlay | incidentally, my main mirror _is_ in Europe |
| 02:56.00 | mheath | I'm just frustrated, because random mirrors decide to be fast for me at the one moment in time I'm running mirrorselect |
| 02:56.01 | findlay | -march=<arch> -O3, etc. |
| 02:56.18 | findlay | mheath: use the -D deep option |
| 02:56.26 | mheath | I did. |
| 02:56.34 | beandog | That only works half the time. |
| 02:57.07 | mheath | I'm trying to decide if I should go with Gnome or not. |
| 02:57.18 | mheath | Gnome doesn't create that much overhead, but it creates some... |
| 02:57.21 | beandog | Do you even need X? |
| 02:57.24 | findlay | it downloads 100 k from each mirror |
| 02:57.38 | mheath | beandog: I just mentioned the main purpose of this box is going to be 3d modeling and rendering :) |
| 02:57.45 | beandog | Oh. |
| 02:57.52 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 02:57.58 | mheath | Well, and programming |
| 02:57.59 | beandog | Is that a yes? :) |
| 02:58.03 | findlay | nah, you want performance? nothing beats xterm on TWM (: |
| 02:58.18 | mheath | (https://www.sourceforge.net/projects/jxmlpkg/ :D ) |
| 02:58.55 | beandog | hmm |
| 02:59.26 | mheath | What? |
| 02:59.36 | Maquis | evilwm |
| 02:59.41 | mheath | No |
| 02:59.46 | mheath | Either fluxbox or Gnome for me |
| 02:59.46 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@209.197.11.63) |
| 02:59.52 | Maquis | fluxbox |
| 02:59.54 | Maquis | gnome is evil |
| 02:59.57 | beandog | I would use fluxbox if I could ifnd a good toolbar |
| 03:00.01 | mheath | Maquis: why is it evil? |
| 03:00.10 | Maquis | bloatware is evil |
| 03:00.12 | sjansen | mheath: Maquis is touched in the head |
| 03:00.15 | beandog | er, not toolbar.. icon-bar whatever.. |
| 03:00.30 | sjansen | Gnome r0x0rz j00r s0x0rz! |
| 03:00.34 | levi | Gnome is nice. |
| 03:00.37 | beandog | Heh |
| 03:00.40 | mheath | I like gnome (granted I'm just waiting for Enlightenment DR17...once that goes stable, I'll be using it only) |
| 03:00.53 | mheath | beandog: iconbar? Perhaps Engage? :) |
| 03:01.02 | beandog | engage? |
| 03:01.10 | beandog | Ooh its in portage. |
| 03:01.12 | beandog | Must be good. |
| 03:01.15 | mheath | Engage = Mac OS X ToolBar + Better |
| 03:01.33 | Maquis | who needs toolbars? |
| 03:01.34 | beandog | with only 50 deps, too |
| 03:01.37 | mheath | Looks rather similar to Mac OS X's icon bar, but has a lot of feature enhancements |
| 03:01.41 | beandog | Im addicted to them. |
| 03:01.46 | mheath | beandog: thats because its part of Enlightenment |
| 03:01.51 | xbmodder_lappy | heh, gnome is the shizit. |
| 03:02.06 | beandog | oh. |
| 03:02.07 | mheath | So, it dpeends on the Enlightenment foundation libraries |
| 03:02.16 | beandog | bueno. |
| 03:02.19 | mheath | most of those deps are tiny |
| 03:02.22 | beandog | I was trying one the other day ... what was it. |
| 03:02.27 | beandog | adesklets something. |
| 03:02.33 | mheath | gdesklets? |
| 03:02.35 | beandog | no |
| 03:02.39 | beandog | adesklets, yab |
| 03:02.48 | mheath | Engage is wonderful....try it... |
| 03:02.50 | mheath | Only one problem. |
| 03:02.52 | beandog | http://adesklets.sf.net/ |
| 03:02.57 | xbmodder_lappy | like maquis=XFCE4 (geeky WM) gnome=pamela anderson KDE=pamela anderson+50 pounds of fat |
| 03:03.03 | mheath | The file format for the icons and stuff.... |
| 03:03.19 | beandog | http://adesklets.sourceforge.net/PRIVOXY-FORCE/images/yab_screen.jpg |
| 03:03.20 | mheath | Makes it integrate very nicely with Enlightenment DR17, but makes integration with another desktop environment a little messy' |
| 03:03.31 | mheath | beandog: I'll look at that in a bit, don't have a graphical browser |
| 03:03.55 | beandog | Ive got to have some kind of icon toolbar. I'm too used to em. |
| 03:04.06 | beandog | Using IceWM right now. |
| 03:04.29 | mheath | Take a look at Enlightenment |
| 03:04.37 | mheath | DR17 has a minimal Icon bar built in |
| 03:04.46 | mheath | then it has Engage, too |
| 03:05.09 | mheath | Or look at FVWM. A good configuration for that can give you a nice icon bar |
| 03:05.13 | beandog | http://wonkabar.org/2005-03-14-200546_1280x1024_scrot.png |
| 03:05.20 | mheath | sjansen: Englightenment can do that |
| 03:05.23 | beandog | Ive tried Enlightment.. didnt like it. |
| 03:05.30 | sjansen | mheath: hence my comment |
| 03:05.31 | beandog | Ill give fvwm a whirl |
| 03:05.41 | mheath | sjansen: Enlightenment has support for animated backgrounds |
| 03:05.48 | sjansen | mheath: hence my comment |
| 03:05.52 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@ns2.digis.net) |
| 03:05.52 | mheath | or interactive backgrounds, or basically whatever you want to do with your background |
| 03:05.55 | mheath | heh, I know |
| 03:06.14 | beandog | hey wade |
| 03:06.30 | sjansen | sunflowers that follow my mouse like it's the sun |
| 03:07.04 | sjansen | photo realistic clouds that are blown away proportional to the speed of my passing mouse |
| 03:07.28 | mheath | Yeah, they can. |
| 03:07.48 | mheath | A good show, though, of how an animated background can be really nice is the E DR17 startup sequence |
| 03:07.49 | sjansen | subtlely blended with the characters from the matrix just enough to hint they're there without being obvious |
| 03:08.45 | sjansen | or hundreds of cute little ewok like creatures that worship me and periodically parade across the desktop in my honor |
| 03:09.32 | beandog | ewoks? |
| 03:10.01 | beandog | If I had any kind of animal prancing about my desktop worshipping me, I'm not sure I'd choose ewoks. |
| 03:10.18 | beandog | But i cant think of anything much better either. |
| 03:10.20 | xbmodder_lappy | anyone here have a teenage daughter 12-16 years old? |
| 03:10.31 | xbmodder_lappy | or son |
| 03:10.35 | Maquis | dragons... unicorns... |
| 03:10.46 | Maquis | penguins... |
| 03:11.03 | xbmodder_lappy | heh |
| 03:11.15 | beandog | I need a good wallpaper. |
| 03:11.23 | mheath | xbmodder_lappy: I really don't know where you're going with a question like that, and I don't care to know |
| 03:11.26 | beandog | Mine disappeared when I started tweaking X. |
| 03:11.50 | xbmodder_lappy | mheath, i am 14 |
| 03:11.55 | xbmodder_lappy | i need some friends my age. |
| 03:11.59 | xbmodder_lappy | :-/ |
| 03:12.00 | mheath | ....... |
| 03:12.18 | beandog | Hes gonna push the AIBUD. |
| 03:12.31 | Maquis | beandog: ??? |
| 03:12.38 | mheath | So you get those friends by coming onto IRC channels and trying to get men to let you hit on their "teenage daugter 12-16 years old" |
| 03:12.39 | Maquis | oh... |
| 03:12.43 | beandog | HEh |
| 03:12.44 | beandog | :) |
| 03:12.45 | Maquis | nm... i get it... |
| 03:12.48 | mheath | ? |
| 03:12.56 | sjansen | beandog: I've got Johny Bravo on my desktop right now. Highly recommened. Inspirational even. |
| 03:13.01 | beandog | mheath: Id wager he's just bored. |
| 03:13.20 | Maquis | my desktop changes every 10 minutes... |
| 03:13.47 | mheath | I'm a fan of the type of subtle or abstract photography desktop wallpaper thats in Mac OS X |
| 03:14.02 | beandog | Maybe I should just run mplayer tv:// and set it to display fullscreen on the desktop and use that as my background |
| 03:14.17 | mheath | Theres a collection I like taht game with Dropline Gnome (I think it was originally part of some commercial Linux distro) |
| 03:14.20 | beandog | Ooh Ive got one |
| 03:14.46 | mheath | sjansen: then you can design a website for my project! :D |
| 03:15.14 | beandog | I need some Star Trek wallpaper. Can't have enough Star Trek in your life. |
| 03:15.50 | xbmodder_lappy | mheath, umm no. |
| 03:17.00 | sjansen | I don't know. Just having a co-worker that likes star wrek is more than enough for me. |
| 03:17.03 | xbmodder_lappy | just talk to them. |
| 03:17.14 | xbmodder_lappy | wrek? |
| 03:17.25 | xbmodder_lappy | whats star wrek? a parody? |
| 03:17.42 | beandog | I watched 8 hours of TNG yesterday. |
| 03:17.46 | beandog | It was glorious. |
| 03:17.54 | xbmodder_lappy | ping sjansen |
| 03:17.57 | mheath | Yes. It's called the "Finger slipping over two keys" parody, xbmodder_lappy. |
| 03:18.05 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (~chatzilla@c-67-161-243-72.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:18.15 | sjansen | Pain! Anger! Pain! Pain! Pain! |
| 03:18.19 | beandog | You know she was my English teacher's sister. |
| 03:18.22 | sjansen | Anger! Anger! Anger! |
| 03:18.34 | beandog | Not that that makes *me* anything important. |
| 03:18.37 | sjansen | Pain! Ice cream! Jeoulosy! Overacting! Pain! |
| 03:18.46 | beandog | LOL sjansen |
| 03:18.59 | xbmodder_lappy | mheath, that'd be a funny parody. |
| 03:19.15 | mheath | Agh.. |
| 03:19.28 | mheath | I'm going to have no time tomorrow to merge my code into CVS for the first time |
| 03:20.12 | xbmodder_lappy | hah! |
| 03:20.20 | mheath | It's all on the school workstations, and I won't get time to work with those tomorrow.. |
| 03:20.23 | Lone_Wanderer | They should have nuked her entire character and replaced her with another cute redhead. |
| 03:20.41 | Lone_Wanderer | Is anyone here sort of familiar with philosophy? |
| 03:21.30 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm looking for the name for the idea that everything is relative and/or subjective |
| 03:21.51 | Lone_Wanderer | (the idea being that if I can find a name for it, I can find a proof that it's a load of crap) |
| 03:22.30 | xbmodder_lappy | who's? |
| 03:23.35 | xbmodder_lappy | mheath, you have a sister? |
| 03:23.52 | beandog | Im gonna go watch some more TNG |
| 03:24.04 | xbmodder_lappy | rm -rf Lone_Wanderer |
| 03:24.14 | xbmodder_lappy | not neccerally dating..... |
| 03:24.20 | xbmodder_lappy | and its me. |
| 03:24.30 | xbmodder_lappy | describe me in 10 words or less. |
| 03:24.49 | mheath | Aggravating and annoying. |
| 03:24.54 | xbmodder_lappy | ..... |
| 03:24.58 | Lone_Wanderer | spammy (that's just one) |
| 03:25.12 | xbmodder_lappy | Mr. How am i annoying? |
| 03:26.16 | mheath | You're annoying now because you asked how you were annoying. |
| 03:26.31 | Maquis | Lone_Wanderer: relativism? |
| 03:26.50 | Maquis | cultural relativism is one of the versions of relativism... |
| 03:27.08 | Lone_Wanderer | That's too easy :p |
| 03:27.20 | Maquis | :) |
| 03:27.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Do you know of any proof that relativism is a load of baloney? |
| 03:27.42 | mheath | And in response to your "rm -rf Lone_Wanderer" ..... |
| 03:27.54 | Maquis | Lone_Wanderer: well, i wasn't able to come up with any good ones |
| 03:28.16 | mheath | $ PATH=xbmodder! /usr/bin/which intelligence |
| 03:28.18 | Lone_Wanderer | That's tragic :( |
| 03:28.25 | mheath | no intelligence in xbmodder |
| 03:28.25 | Maquis | and i was the only one that disagreed with it in my high school philosophy class (the teacher didn't bother to provide any conter-arguments...) |
| 03:30.10 | Maquis | mheath: it's much easier if you just use /ignore |
| 03:30.19 | mheath | Maquis: but this is so much fun! :D |
| 03:30.30 | Maquis | as you wish... |
| 03:31.17 | mheath | Hah, I'm just waiting for him to privmsg me asking for my sisters phone number. |
| 03:33.10 | mheath | maps.google.com only works in, what, 3 browsers? |
| 03:33.39 | sjansen | like you're expecting to get a map out of links |
| 03:36.29 | mheath | Yeah. |
| 03:36.37 | mheath | Mapquest works in links -g, doesn't it? |
| 03:38.07 | sjansen | not a compelling argument |
| 03:39.28 | mheath | Wow. newegg.com works well in links -g |
| 03:44.43 | tensai | o/~ drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip ... |
| 03:45.43 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.01 | sjansen | hmmmmmmmmmmm..... |
| 03:49.11 | Maquis | sjansen: you trying the water torture there? |
| 03:49.32 | *** join/#utah beandog (~steve@c-67-182-214-140.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:49.36 | beandog | I got my sound recording :D |
| 03:49.37 | sjansen | tensai started it |
| 03:49.40 | beandog | Man this thingy is nice. |
| 03:49.43 | Maquis | sjansen: you dont need route y login? |
| 03:49.54 | tensai | Maquis: it's the cure! |
| 03:50.02 | Maquis | umm... sure... |
| 03:50.11 | tensai | uncouth |
| 03:57.27 | sjansen | neato, OOo2 supports XForms |
| 04:04.00 | *** join/#utah stuporglue (~stuporglu@c-67-164-196-151.client.comcast.net) |
| 04:13.08 | beandog | Is there a way to run a command for a certain length of time |
| 04:13.50 | sjansen | beandog: you could plug the computer into one of those mechanical light timers |
| 04:13.57 | beandog | LOL |
| 04:14.26 | beandog | Thanks for the timely useless advice. :) |
| 04:14.30 | sjansen | actually, I what I normally do is background the process then start another command with a sleep followed by a kill to end the backgrounded process |
| 04:14.59 | beandog | Hmm |
| 04:15.03 | beandog | Good idea |
| 04:15.30 | sjansen | you have a good sense of humor, I like you |
| 04:15.48 | beandog | gum is of the devil |
| 04:16.02 | sjansen | perhaps that's why it tried to choke you |
| 04:16.06 | beandog | Heh |
| 04:16.15 | beandog | I would recite the Oompa Loompa song, but the words aren't coming. |
| 04:16.44 | Maquis | oompa loompa doompedi doo... o/~ |
| 04:17.56 | beandog | Ah here we go |
| 04:18.24 | beandog | meh. |
| 04:18.27 | beandog | not that entertaining. |
| 04:18.28 | beandog | oh well. |
| 04:18.59 | beandog | sjansen: so do you kill the pid or the command |
| 04:19.15 | Maquis | beandog: kill the pid... |
| 04:19.17 | beandog | That is, is there anyway to get the pid of the process you just started so you know specifically which one to kill after sleeping? |
| 04:19.19 | Maquis | or killall the command |
| 04:20.04 | Tene | oh, wouldn't you like to know. |
| 04:20.26 | sjansen | I haven't tried to do it scripted. Would only a tiny bit of creativity, though. |
| 04:20.55 | sjansen | usually killall the command |
| 04:21.01 | Maquis | ~mock sjansen for his poor grammar |
| 04:21.04 | ibot | ACTION pulls sjansen for his poor grammar's pants down and shows the world sjansen for his poor grammar's pink spotted underwear |
| 04:21.06 | beandog | heh |
| 04:21.17 | Maquis | ibot: you're an idiot |
| 04:21.21 | beandog | Hmm, ibot's not too good either. |
| 04:21.40 | sjansen | It's a trick I often doing when I'm about to run something dangerous that'll lock me out of the system. |
| 04:21.55 | beandog | Hmm |
| 04:21.56 | beandog | How about this |
| 04:22.00 | beandog | while sleep <time> do |
| 04:24.18 | Maquis | ~\o let me share this whole new world with you... o/~ |
| 04:24.25 | sjansen | sleep 30 && killall destroy_my_system.sh |
| 04:24.34 | sjansen | destroy_my_system.sh & |
| 04:24.44 | sjansen | better background that first one too |
| 04:25.32 | Maquis | sjansen: where'd you get that script? |
| 04:25.39 | Maquis | sounds like it could be entertaining |
| 04:25.42 | Maquis | does it require root? |
| 04:26.46 | Maquis | certain as the sun rising in the east... tale as old as time... song as old as rhyme...... |
| 04:26.56 | beandog | no |
| 04:27.13 | beandog | ARe you doing Beauty and the Beast or Little Mermaid |
| 04:27.35 | Maquis | beandog: that was beauty and the beast... |
| 04:27.40 | Maquis | the one before was aladdin |
| 04:27.40 | Tene | the former |
| 04:27.43 | beandog | Doh. |
| 04:27.45 | Maquis | now i'm on mulan |
| 04:27.51 | beandog | Skip to Pete's Dragon |
| 04:28.07 | Maquis | i have puff the magic dragon... |
| 04:28.07 | beandog | I'll be your candle on the water |
| 04:28.10 | beandog | la la la la |
| 04:28.15 | beandog | That ones a classic |
| 04:28.35 | beandog | Mulan stinks though. |
| 04:28.46 | sjansen | mulan is great, just no memorable songs |
| 04:28.56 | beandog | sjansen: exactly |
| 04:29.05 | Maquis | reflections is good |
| 04:29.09 | Tene | I actually think that mulan is rather nice |
| 04:29.11 | Maquis | a girl worth fighting for is good |
| 04:29.11 | beandog | Good movie, terrible soundtrack |
| 04:29.29 | Maquis | i'll make a man out of you is pretty good too |
| 04:29.33 | Maquis | they're all better in chinese... |
| 04:29.46 | beandog | hahha |
| 04:29.58 | sjansen | no they're not, listening to them just makes you feel superior |
| 04:30.28 | sjansen | I admit, though, Mulan was more enjoyable in Portuguese. Couldn't find a copy when I went back last summer, though. |
| 04:30.29 | Maquis | sjansen: they are really cool in chinese... i can't understand most of it... but it sounds cool |
| 04:30.41 | Maquis | "kiss the girl" |
| 04:30.59 | sjansen | Der you see her. Sitting der across the way. She don't got a lot to say. |
| 04:30.59 | Maquis | "look at that... the guy too shy... won't kiss the girl" |
| 04:31.07 | beandog | http://wonkabar.org/music.php |
| 04:31.11 | beandog | Theres all my many soundtracks |
| 04:31.34 | sjansen | Der you see her. Sitting der across the way. She don't got even less to say. |
| 04:31.41 | sjansen | oops |
| 04:31.45 | sjansen | Der you see her. Sitting der across the way. She got even less to say. |
| 04:31.48 | sjansen | better |
| 04:31.54 | beandog | sjansen: the killall didnt start til after uh |
| 04:32.00 | beandog | after sleep finished. |
| 04:32.09 | sjansen | beandog: exactly |
| 04:32.09 | Maquis | beandog: that's the point, right? |
| 04:32.15 | beandog | No |
| 04:32.17 | beandog | Er. |
| 04:32.22 | beandog | I had the commands backwords. |
| 04:32.30 | beandog | heh |
| 04:32.47 | beandog | That makes sense. |
| 04:33.42 | beandog | except it didnt work. |
| 04:34.32 | Maquis | "close your eyes --- it's better" |
| 04:34.32 | beandog | bah. |
| 04:34.51 | beandog | Whoops. |
| 04:34.54 | Tene | Maquis: go throw a brick through a window of a guys' dorm somewhere |
| 04:34.56 | beandog | Forgot the & |
| 04:35.03 | Tene | it'll make you feel better |
| 04:35.21 | Maquis | Tene: don't give me ideas like that... |
| 04:35.24 | beandog | Yay it worked. Thanks sjansen |
| 04:35.37 | sjansen | Maquis: And you won't have to do any homework afterwards! |
| 04:35.53 | Tene | Hey, at least I didn't suggest something burning. |
| 04:36.04 | beandog | ah crap. |
| 04:36.15 | beandog | Not gonna work. |
| 04:36.16 | beandog | Durnit. |
| 04:36.35 | mheath | Hey, anyone by chance use a Logitech/Connectix Color QuickCam V2 in Linux before? |
| 04:37.10 | beandog | What are you working on Maquis ? |
| 04:37.17 | mheath | Maquis: thats the spirit |
| 04:37.24 | Maquis | beandog: cs345 |
| 04:37.31 | beandog | Im sure your roommate will appreciate you staying up late |
| 04:37.36 | beandog | Whats that |
| 04:37.37 | sjansen | beandog: Hello world in Algol |
| 04:37.42 | Maquis | operating systems |
| 04:37.50 | beandog | Oh. |
| 04:38.10 | sjansen | She's got the Hello part, but can't remember how to spell World. |
| 04:38.27 | beandog | heh |
| 04:38.45 | Maquis | goozbach_: you around????? |
| 04:38.46 | mheath | Maquis: does your professor say that a "protected"/"kernel"/whatever mode needs to exist in a modern Operating System? |
| 04:39.27 | Maquis | mheath: if i understood your question better, i'd answer it |
| 04:39.54 | sjansen | mheath: Of course not! Why take my PDA running Palm OS |
| 04:40.18 | Tene | sweet, free PDA |
| 04:40.36 | Maquis | wow... |
| 04:40.39 | Maquis | that was a mistyping |
| 04:41.11 | mheath | Maquis: has your teacher taught that modern operating systems are all divided into two segments, Kernelland and Userland? |
| 04:41.28 | Maquis | yeah... and that most OSes have both |
| 04:41.54 | Maquis | RTOSs need to have pre-emptible kernels to be truly real-time... |
| 04:41.57 | Maquis | but yeah... |
| 04:42.03 | sjansen | Maquis: great, you took the bate |
| 04:42.10 | sjansen | bait, even |
| 04:42.27 | Maquis | sjansen: i don't care |
| 04:42.35 | Tene | mheath: how do *you* feel about that? |
| 04:43.02 | mheath | Thanks for answering, Maquis :) |
| 04:43.42 | sjansen | Oh, good. Me was afraid of findaly on music, or levi on functional programming. |
| 04:43.47 | mheath | Took the bait for what? Fight? |
| 04:44.08 | sjansen | ... Or himself in when he's filling liking changing the signal to noise ratio. |
| 04:44.32 | Maquis | what kinda filling? cherry pie filling? |
| 04:44.42 | Maquis | (speaking of pie... happy pi day) |
| 04:44.47 | mheath | Pecan pie. |
| 04:44.54 | mheath | Though I'm not sure you can consider that a filling. |
| 04:44.56 | beandog | ~lart stupid eharmony commercials |
| 04:44.58 | Tene | Maquis: I hate you! You have an opinion about something that's different than mine! |
| 04:45.07 | mheath | eharmony......dot COM! |
| 04:45.27 | Tene | You don't give me candy and ice cream, therefore you're a big meanie! |
| 04:45.58 | mheath | out of curiosity, what does everything in here think of Andrew Tannenbaum? |
| 04:46.18 | sjansen | o/~ They're comging to take me away, ha ha! They're coming to take me away. ~\0 |
| 04:46.28 | mheath | I'm looking at a couple potential universities, and a big plus for one small place is that Andrew Tannenbuam is a professor there... |
| 04:46.38 | mheath | Just wondering what some of you thought of the guy. |
| 04:46.39 | beandog | who? |
| 04:46.52 | beandog | was he on that Hercules show? |
| 04:46.53 | sjansen | o/~ To the funny farm.. murph smoggle mumumph ~\0 |
| 04:47.13 | mheath | Andrew Tannenbuam...wrote like 5 very influential books on Operating System design... |
| 04:47.16 | sjansen | beandog: The creator of Minix, IIRC. |
| 04:47.16 | mheath | Wrote Minix..... |
| 04:47.19 | Tene | he's some old unix-type celebrity among old unix-types, I think |
| 04:47.33 | mheath | Tene: LOL thats kinda funny |
| 04:47.46 | Maquis | does he have a nice, working implementation of virtual memory that i can steal???? |
| 04:47.47 | mheath | main reason he wrote Minix was because he was pissed off with Unix. He hated Unix :D |
| 04:48.23 | Tene | Actually, I was under the impression that he wrote it as an appendix to one of his books on OS design. |
| 04:48.40 | beandog | Ok im off to bed. Before I break something. |
| 04:48.42 | mheath | (He taught a course on OS design and used Unix's code as an example.....they made it closed source after a while, and so he went and coded his own OS, Minix) |
| 04:48.51 | Tene | ahh |
| 04:48.55 | sjansen | There are thinkers, and their are doers. Tannenbuam is a thinker. Linux is a doer. Listen to the thinkers, but don't let them get in your way. |
| 04:49.07 | mheath | Uh... |
| 04:49.16 | Maquis | is Minix a thinker or a doer? |
| 04:49.20 | mheath | Tannenbuam coded an OS that was popular for a decade... |
| 04:49.21 | sjansen | Microkernels are nice and all, but open source working code is better. |
| 04:49.29 | mheath | Linux started as a drop in replacement for the Minix kernel. |
| 04:49.35 | mheath | And Minix doesn't have a microkernel, really. |
| 04:49.46 | sjansen | yep, and as soon as Linux came along Minix was dropped |
| 04:49.56 | mheath | Uh... |
| 04:50.07 | sjansen | largely because the Minix license was a pain |
| 04:50.25 | sjansen | Linux was ugly and monolithic, but it was open and easy to hack on. |
| 04:50.31 | mheath | Yeah, after it replaced all of Minix's tools. For over a year after Linux development started, the kernel was dependent on a Minix host OS to do anything useful |
| 04:51.27 | sjansen | which is more than can be said for the hurd |
| 04:51.50 | mheath | sjansen: the Hurd is part of the Operating System that Linux still relies on today. |
| 04:52.26 | Tene | duel with halberds? Interesting... |
| 04:52.46 | Maquis | sjansen: why in the world is it getting an illegal instruction in a frame that doesn't exist? |
| 04:53.17 | mheath | Just remember, GNU Libc, GCC, Binutils, Coreutils, .... are all part of the GNU operating system :) |
| 04:53.42 | sjansen | Uhm, uhm, uhm.... Your mother was a hamster... uhm... and.. uhm... your father... your father... oh, yes! Your father smelt of elderberries! |
| 04:53.49 | Tene | a compiler is part of an operating system? |
| 04:53.54 | mheath | Tene: yes. |
| 04:54.05 | Tene | I suppose if you compile code on the fly... |
| 04:54.09 | sjansen | mheath: We already got on! |
| 04:54.20 | sjansen | Tene: Heh, I told him we already got one. |
| 04:54.23 | mheath | What good would an Operating System be without an assembler, a linker, and a compiler? |
| 04:54.42 | sjansen | Or a browser. Therefore, a browser is part of every OS. |
| 04:55.04 | Tene | and a music player |
| 04:55.19 | mheath | You can code a browser and compile it with your compiler. |
| 04:55.32 | mheath | Whereas if you don't have a compiler or an assembler, you can't create anything. |
| 04:55.39 | Maquis | mheath: well, you can code a kernel and compile it with your compiler |
| 04:55.53 | sjansen | mheath: sure you do, you still have toggle switches |
| 04:55.53 | Maquis | so, apparently, the kernel isn't part of the Operating System either... |
| 04:55.54 | Tene | mheath: cross-compile from a different operating system |
| 04:56.00 | Tene | or just write it all in machine code |
| 04:56.23 | Maquis | plenty of people run an operating system without a compiler, etc... |
| 04:56.27 | mheath | Maquis: yes, but your compiler runs on your kernel. |
| 04:56.30 | mheath | Maquis: like what? |
| 04:56.31 | mheath | Name one. |
| 04:56.34 | sjansen | Windows. |
| 04:56.41 | mheath | That has an assembler built in |
| 04:56.43 | Maquis | i'm the only one in my apartment that has a compiler on her computer... |
| 04:56.46 | mheath | and libraries for compiling |
| 04:56.47 | mheath | next? |
| 04:56.51 | Tene | built in? |
| 04:56.54 | mheath | Yes. |
| 04:56.55 | Maquis | where? |
| 04:57.01 | Tene | do you mean shipped with? |
| 04:57.10 | mheath | System libraries. Microsoft has included an assembler with their OS since MS-DOS |
| 04:57.12 | sjansen | mheath: Next? But I haven't had my beating yet. |
| 04:57.28 | Tene | 'cause if you're referring to "debug", then that's not "built in" at all |
| 04:57.36 | Maquis | what if i decide to use a different compiler on my linux box? does that make it not linux? |
| 04:57.43 | sjansen | I distinctly remember paying for a real drubbing, and I shall have it I tell you! |
| 04:57.54 | Maquis | it doesn't make it a different operating system... |
| 04:58.26 | Tene | mheath: if all my binaries are cross-compiled from a different operating system, is that other operating system part of mine? |
| 04:59.13 | mheath | The point is, your argument against a compiler is about as good as an argument against "cp" |
| 04:59.30 | sjansen | cp also isn't needed |
| 04:59.31 | Maquis | i'm not sure that cp is part of the operating system... |
| 04:59.32 | mheath | "Oh, it's not necessary. We could just remove files by issuing commands to the IDE controller via binary switches." |
| 04:59.48 | Maquis | file management isn't necessarily a part of an operating system... |
| 04:59.50 | sjansen | Mac OS < 10 got by just fine without cp. |
| 05:00.03 | Tene | just use cat and > |
| 05:00.03 | sjansen | Palm OS didn't have files for some time. |
| 05:00.33 | Tene | did PalmOS have a compiler, though? |
| 05:00.35 | sjansen | And that's a major OS. Minor OSen don't need them either. |
| 05:00.46 | sjansen | Not at first, no. Cross compiler only. |
| 05:01.00 | sjansen | And even today, you really don't want to do it. Too slow. |
| 05:01.32 | mheath | So, lets see here... |
| 05:01.46 | Maquis | operating systems provide management of hardware, and scheduling of processes |
| 05:01.47 | mheath | rm -rf /lib/ld-linux-so.2 |
| 05:01.50 | sjansen | mheath: Was DOS an OS? |
| 05:01.55 | mheath | THats not necessary...don't need a linker... |
| 05:01.57 | mheath | Hmm... |
| 05:02.01 | mheath | rm -rf /bin/rm |
| 05:02.05 | mheath | Won't be needing that... |
| 05:02.12 | sjansen | Nope, no linker needed. Everything'll be monolithic. |
| 05:02.32 | mheath | sjansen: no, DOS was not an operating system. |
| 05:02.36 | mheath | It was a shell. |
| 05:02.37 | sjansen | Nope, don't need files. Just some structs in memory. Better to save the space on an embedded system. |
| 05:02.37 | Maquis | mheath: there's a distinction between programs that you need and the actual operating system |
| 05:02.55 | mheath | Maquis: what is an operating system then? |
| 05:03.08 | mheath | Apparently I was mistaken in thinking that it was a system that operated your computer. |
| 05:03.12 | Maquis | an operating system is pretty much a scheduler, and something that controls the hardware... |
| 05:03.18 | Maquis | ie, manages memory, etc |
| 05:03.23 | sjansen | mheath: Could I offer you that cp you were eyeing? Maybe ls too? Really wouldn't mind to see them go. |
| 05:03.39 | mheath | So, Operating System == Kernel? |
| 05:03.41 | Maquis | manages processes |
| 05:03.42 | Maquis | yes |
| 05:03.44 | sjansen | pretty much, yes |
| 05:03.46 | Maquis | operating system == kernel |
| 05:03.59 | sjansen | Everything else is layered on top of it. |
| 05:04.27 | sjansen | That's why DOS wasn't really an OS. It was more like a collection of libraries and shell to launch stuff. |
| 05:04.39 | mheath | Lets see here.... |
| 05:04.45 | mheath | looking at dictionary.com |
| 05:05.18 | sjansen | mheath: Why don't you check a CS text book instead? |
| 05:05.28 | sjansen | hmmm... Maybe wikipedia. |
| 05:05.35 | mheath | Kernel == The essential part of Unix or other operating systems, responsible for for resource allocation, lowl-level hardware interfaces ..... |
| 05:05.43 | mheath | So since operating systems == kernel, then... |
| 05:05.55 | mheath | Kernel == The essential part of Unix or other kernel, responsible ...... |
| 05:06.09 | *** join/#utah Tene_ (~tene@c-67-164-198-164.client.comcast.net) |
| 05:06.28 | sjansen | ~wikipedia operating system |
| 05:06.31 | Maquis | an operating system (OS) is the system software responsible for the direct control and management of hardware and basic system operations. |
| 05:07.18 | Maquis | mheath: cs text books will tell you that operating system == kernel... |
| 05:07.35 | mheath | Also on wikipedia... |
| 05:07.58 | sjansen | bah |
| 05:08.02 | mheath | These common core services include, but are not limited to: ......., and user interfacing. |
| 05:08.27 | sjansen | Maquis: Your shoe's untied. |
| 05:08.31 | mheath | How does the Linux Kernel interface with users? |
| 05:08.42 | Maquis | sjansen: yes... it is... in fact, it's sitting next to my bed |
| 05:08.46 | mheath | An operating system is supposed to provide user interfacing |
| 05:08.51 | Tene_ | sjansen: did you respond to my question about PalmOS having a compiler? |
| 05:08.55 | sjansen | No, a shell provides user interface. |
| 05:09.04 | sjansen | Tene_: I did. |
| 05:09.16 | Maquis | shell == user interface... programs operate inside shell... |
| 05:09.19 | Tene_ | what was the anser? |
| 05:09.22 | sjansen | However, certain companies have decided to move part of their shell into their kernel. |
| 05:09.46 | mheath | It is also noteworthy that some poeple use "kernel" to mean the core piece of the OS that deals most directly with the hardware, and have a slightly broader definition of "Operating System". |
| 05:09.50 | sjansen | bash is a shell, so is X windows, neither define a specific OS |
| 05:10.08 | Maquis | mheath: it's great that "some people" use those terms |
| 05:10.08 | mheath | What was that about Wikipedia saying Kernel == OS? |
| 05:10.15 | Maquis | but CS textbooks don't... |
| 05:10.39 | mheath | Uh.. |
| 05:11.05 | mheath | "It should be stressed that neither definition is completely accepted among the Computer Science community" |
| 05:11.22 | Maquis | "some people" will claim that the gui is part of the operating system... that doesn't make that view correct |
| 05:11.34 | sjansen | Ask Maquis about Squeak. |
| 05:12.19 | sjansen | Linux has three major interfaces: command line, X, and frame buffer with something like Qtopia |
| 05:12.35 | sjansen | So does that make it three different OSes? |
| 05:12.54 | mheath | "An operating system is conceptually broken into three components: a user interface (... ), low-level system utilities, and a kernel--which is the heart of every operating system." |
| 05:13.31 | mheath | (That's from Wikipedia) |
| 05:13.53 | sjansen | Maquis: Squeak is kinda a counter example that mheath could be using. Smalltalk too. |
| 05:14.41 | sjansen | Personally, however, I don't find it useful to refer to anything other than the kernel as the OS. Everything else is very interchangeable on a well designed system. |
| 05:15.16 | sjansen | Look at libc. In recent memory, there's glibc, and libc5. And you don't get much more vital than them. |
| 05:15.20 | mheath | So what if it's interchangeable? |
| 05:15.46 | Maquis | is it the interface to the user interface , or is it the user interface itself that determines the OS |
| 05:15.46 | mheath | The pennies in my jar of pennies are interchangeable. Doesn't mean it isn't a jar of pennies. |
| 05:15.48 | Maquis | ? |
| 05:15.52 | sjansen | So you argue that Linux + glibc is different from Linxu + libc5? |
| 05:16.28 | mheath | I agree that Operating Systems should be categorized by the software contained within them. |
| 05:16.45 | sjansen | How about a busybox system? Is that a different OS? |
| 05:17.14 | mheath | Yes. |
| 05:17.20 | sjansen | Far as I'm concerned, their all running on the same OS. The common thread is the kernel and it's collection of traps. |
| 05:17.48 | mheath | You could call it a Busybox+uClibC / Linux system vs. a GNU / Linux system. |
| 05:18.02 | sjansen | Or I could just call it Linux. |
| 05:18.21 | mheath | Why? |
| 05:18.32 | sjansen | Why ask why? |
| 05:18.48 | mheath | Linux is very nondescriptive. |
| 05:19.39 | mheath | But I really should be getting to sleep... |
| 05:19.58 | tene | Oh! Oh! I could call it Firefox Linux / Opera Linux / Links Linux! |
| 05:20.03 | tene | That's even more descriptive! |
| 05:20.17 | mheath | "An operating system is conceptually broken into three components: a user interface (... ), low-level system utilities, and a kernel--which is the heart of every operating system." |
| 05:21.08 | mheath | Firefox and Opera don't fall into any of those categories. |
| 05:21.29 | mheath | Whereas GNU Binutils, Coreutils, etc. do. |
| 05:23.23 | sjansen | coreutils does not |
| 05:23.29 | sjansen | much of binutils doesn't either |
| 05:23.42 | findlay | exactly |
| 05:24.13 | sjansen | findlay: doesn't matter, you agreed with the right person |
| 05:24.26 | sjansen | findlay: Now get back out their an show'm what for! |
| 05:24.59 | mheath | Excuse me? A linker, an assembler? These aren't low-level system utilities? |
| 05:25.11 | findlay | me is a little unsure how to proceed under sjansen's directions |
| 05:25.32 | sjansen | findlay: just be creative, I'm sure that what ever you do will be fine |
| 05:25.51 | sjansen | Just try not to get into the flower garden. We'll catch heck from our neighbor if you do. |
| 05:27.27 | mheath | Anyway, as much fun as repetively arguing semantics is, I have to head to sleep |
| 05:27.54 | sjansen | mheath: don't worry, I'll fill in for you |
| 05:28.00 | mheath | Thank you. |
| 05:28.10 | sjansen | while `true`; do echo "Is not!"; done |
| 05:28.14 | sjansen | while `true`; do echo "Is too!"; done |
| 05:29.05 | findlay | I prefer the simpler and more direct 'yes Is not; Is too' because it seems to be unconditional |
| 05:29.49 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@ns2.digis.net) |
| 05:30.11 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 05:33.32 | findlay | Maquis: gcc will never fall! gcc forever!!!@@!11 |
| 05:38.17 | goozbach_ | sjansen: finish your presentation and go home |
| 05:39.27 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:39.35 | sjansen | probably just better to go home and not worry about the presentation |
| 05:39.37 | *** part/#utah spig (~spig_@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:40.22 | Maquis | goo!!! |
| 05:41.13 | Maquis | ok... so, my roommate and i are on very different sleep schedules |
| 05:41.31 | Maquis | when i manage to get to bed on time, she's up late... when she gets to bed on time, i'm up late... |
| 05:41.52 | Maquis | the difference is, when i'm the one getting to bed, her desk light is on, and such... |
| 05:42.15 | Maquis | when she's the one getting to bed, i swear the only reason i'm allowed to keep my laptop on is that i have a dark background |
| 05:42.47 | Maquis | i had the room completely set up so that my desk lamp was hidden behind a bookcase, and pointed directly into the wall that it was half an inch from |
| 05:42.54 | Maquis | she complained that it was too bright... |
| 05:44.21 | sjansen | sounds like you need to do more complaining |
| 05:44.32 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 05:44.44 | sjansen | if her lamp bothers you, say something |
| 05:45.13 | Maquis | sjansen: it only bothers me for about 5 minutes... |
| 05:45.19 | Maquis | then i go to sleep |
| 05:45.49 | sjansen | perhaps your lamp bothers her more |
| 05:45.50 | Maquis | i just don't get why i can't have a little light when i'm up late |
| 05:45.55 | findlay | or better yet have something said |
| 05:46.15 | findlay | /usr/bin/fortune | /usr/bin/festival or something |
| 05:46.31 | sjansen | different people are affected differently by light when they're trying to sleep |
| 05:46.39 | Maquis | sjansen: true... |
| 05:46.58 | Maquis | i've just never had a roommate that had problems with a tiny bit of lite that was blocked by another object |
| 05:47.07 | friocorte | neither can I |
| 05:47.45 | findlay | goozbach: don't go outside too much? |
| 05:48.13 | goozbach | no, I don't like that day star thingy |
| 05:48.26 | Maquis | the evil day star... |
| 05:48.37 | goozbach | yes very evil |
| 05:48.54 | friocorte | I agree |
| 05:48.59 | findlay | the death star? What? |
| 05:49.07 | goozbach | DAY star |
| 05:50.25 | tene | Maquis: doesn't your roommate have eyelids? |
| 05:50.33 | Maquis | tene: i thought so... |
| 05:51.07 | tene | get her a pair of eye-covering-things and next time she complains, throw them at her and tell her to shut up |
| 05:51.15 | Maquis | :) |
| 05:52.10 | tene | and if she doesn't, tell her that you'll gladly offer her a discounted rate on your guaranteed sleep service, A-Brick-To-The-Head. |
| 05:52.26 | Maquis | hahaha |
| 05:53.53 | tene | or something like "If you don't like it, go sleep in the kitchen. |
| 05:55.08 | tene | or find a photographer friend and get a light meter, so that you can show her numerically just how insignificant the light level is. |
| 05:55.32 | tene | and then ask her just exactly how many lumens are permissable. |
| 05:56.22 | Maquis | gnight goo |
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| 05:59.09 | SpecialK | ~lart Maquis |
| 05:59.19 | Maquis | ~lart SpecialK |
| 06:02.20 | Maquis | what the... ????? |
| 06:04.01 | levi-laptop | ?????! |
| 06:04.14 | Maquis | ERROR: memory address 0xa95ab out range |
| 06:05.15 | levi-laptop | Well then. |
| 06:05.28 | levi-laptop | Get that pointer back in bounds! |
| 06:06.39 | Maquis | well, i'm not sure if i'm supposed to be able to handle that memory range... |
| 06:07.55 | Maquis | when i put that large of a value in manually, it drops the a at the beginning |
| 06:08.09 | levi-laptop | Hmm. |
| 06:08.11 | Maquis | just pretends that it's 0x95ab |
| 06:14.59 | levi-laptop | Maquis: That's a pretty significant change in value |
| 06:15.10 | Maquis | levi-laptop: yeah... i noticed |
| 06:15.40 | Maquis | i'm just not quite sure what i'm supposed to do... |
| 06:16.08 | levi-laptop | Where'd the value come from> |
| 06:16.13 | levi-laptop | ? |
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| 06:16.32 | Maquis | the value is coming from a program that we have to run from our shell |
| 06:16.56 | Maquis | but the error message seems to be coming from an area that i'm pretty sure is called before anything that i wrote... |
| 06:20.06 | tensai | Maquis: it sounds like you're keeping just the low 16 bits |
| 06:20.24 | Maquis | tensai: i know what i'm doing... i'm just not sure what i'm |
| 06:20.30 | Maquis | *supposed* to be doing |
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| 06:28.16 | levi-laptop | Don't you have some sort of spec? |
| 06:28.29 | Maquis | yeah... but it doesn't talk about that... |
| 06:28.46 | Maquis | i emailed the TA... and i'll just see what i can do about it... |
| 06:31.58 | findlay | ~lart manti telephone as many times as you like |
| 06:33.43 | Maquis | hmmmm.... |
| 06:33.45 | Maquis | question... |
| 06:34.03 | findlay | question? |
| 06:34.14 | findlay | no brigham? |
| 06:34.20 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.192.70) |
| 06:34.25 | Maquis | so, if i pulled in a previous version from my svn repository, is there a clean way to get it to let me commit back? |
| 06:34.33 | Maquis | it seems to want to make me do an update... |
| 06:37.50 | Maquis | but... i don't want to do an update... i specifically went back a revision to undo some changes.. and i don't want svn to merge those changes back in... |
| 06:37.52 | tensai | you basically want to revert back a few versions? |
| 06:38.03 | Maquis | mostly |
| 06:38.09 | Maquis | i made a few changes from the reverted version |
| 06:38.12 | Maquis | and want to recommit |
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| 06:38.26 | tensai | svn di -r 100 >/tmp/100.patch; patch </tmp/100.patch. svn ci |
| 06:38.45 | tensai | so diff from -r 100 to current. apply that patch. then commit. |
| 06:38.45 | Maquis | hmmm... |
| 06:39.00 | Maquis | just came up with a simpler solution (albeit not nearly as elegant) |
| 06:39.11 | tensai | but you can't commit until you've updated. svn won't let you. |
| 06:39.21 | Maquis | checked out a current copy fo the repository, and copied the version i wanted into that folder |
| 06:39.25 | Maquis | and committed |
| 06:39.34 | tensai | that was my other thought |
| 06:40.56 | levi-laptop | findlay: Are you going to share your thoughts about them? |
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| 06:41.42 | decriptor | anyone in here a PIX guy at all |
| 06:42.23 | tensai | findlay: do these notions relate to Vivaldi, Bach or Ravel? |
| 06:42.27 | decriptor | I have to make a change to a live PIX firewall and want to double check it with someone |
| 06:44.36 | tensai | sorry, I'm a sonicwall guy |
| 06:47.53 | decriptor | are they any good I've seen them on and off but haven't had a chance to look at one |
| 06:48.21 | *** part/#utah spig (~spig_@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 06:48.45 | tensai | they're expensive but I'm sure you're used to that with a pix. we have stability issues with them. They're not rock solid like I'd prefer. But they get the job done. |
| 06:49.06 | tensai | I would like a CLI but at least the web interface works very well |
| 06:49.31 | decriptor | we aren't that big on pix in fact I don't think we ever sold one this client that we picked up happened to have two we are big openBSD guys |
| 06:49.41 | tensai | the new enhanced os adds a lot of great features that I'd love to use but I'm not ready to spend $$$ for |
| 06:50.18 | decriptor | yeah that's what has stopped us from really persuing the sonicwall |
| 06:50.21 | decriptor | solution |
| 06:50.54 | tensai | my biggest complaint is that they cost per user. That really just rubs me the wrong way. I prefer a good Linux box with iptables for myself. |
| 06:51.39 | decriptor | I've been interested in using a iptables some more however openBSD is sooooo easy to work with |
| 06:51.51 | tensai | I've heard pf is really nice |
| 06:52.33 | decriptor | I don't think that we have ever had a security issue with them this far and the ipsec stuff is a joke if it's between two OpenBSD machines I haven't tried it with anything else so far |
| 06:53.35 | tensai | ipsec is a beast on linux, imho. I've never had too much luck. between two linux boxes it's decent, but nothing compared to between two sonicwalls. |
| 06:53.39 | decriptor | I think I found a confirmation on my problem but yeah openbsd make life really really easy for a quick and good firewall |
| 06:54.16 | decriptor | I think you have about 6 maybe 8 things you have to set on each box and you are done |
| 06:54.39 | decriptor | the hardest thing is creating the keys (easy) and making sure you have all the right ip addresses |
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| 11:55.03 | Lone_Wanderer | Is anyone still up? |
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| 13:25.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Anyone up yet? |
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| 15:08.02 | kpettit | Can anybody recommend a good PHP based Message Board? I'm setting up one for my gamming group |
| 15:12.54 | osynic | kpettit, http://newsboard.unclassified.de/ - it's cool because it has jabber notifications |
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| 15:56.18 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:56.24 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:56.26 | ibot | ACTION shoots joshc in the eye with a spitwad! |
| 15:56.48 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:01.38 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:01.51 | Jayce^ | always here to help |
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| 16:11.06 | tensai | ~lart qwest |
| 16:11.16 | hans | tensai: what's the score? |
| 16:11.44 | Jayce^ | wow, those mac mini's are smaller than they appear on the site.. |
| 16:11.54 | Jayce^ | guy here just picked one up... very nice |
| 16:12.51 | tensai | hans: my dsl is out. looks like it's qwest's fault. |
| 16:16.17 | hans | tensai: oh, picking on you at home now, too. not a good sign |
| 16:23.33 | levi | Jayce^: I've heard they're really freakin' teeny. |
| 16:24.25 | hans | levi: ready to talk DI? |
| 16:25.43 | levi | hans: Sure. |
| 16:26.02 | hans | ok, here goes. ;-) |
| 16:26.58 | hans | First off, I want to be clear that I think dependcy injection is a useful pattern but I would categorize it stiffly in the "non-magic" group and further in the group of patterns that should not be used until the complexity warrants it |
| 16:27.47 | Jayce^ | levi, they are.. |
| 16:28.18 | hans | on the other hand, the essence of DI is in fact so simple and natural that I was already doing it without realizing it. |
| 16:28.56 | hans | Everywhere you try to read about DI online and every framework implementing it makes it way too hard. I think there are advantages to that for heavy-duty stuff that benefits from all the features of the frameworks |
| 16:29.44 | hans | but mostly in its essence it is a pattern that requires no framework and is easily done and useful for even the smallest patterns. but in that case I don't know that I'd say you "did" DI, just that DI describes what you did |
| 16:30.17 | hans | that's the long answer. The short answer is yes it looks useful for this app but not in the form of using a framework. |
| 16:30.40 | levi | Sounds reasonable. :) |
| 16:32.03 | hans | I am a little disillusioned that I had to set out on a half-hour crusade to grok DI only to find that in essence it's a pattern that I already use. |
| 16:32.43 | levi | Heh. |
| 16:33.12 | levi | You should set out to learn call/cc. I can pretty much guarantee you haven't been using it. ;) |
| 16:36.40 | levi | Of course, your chances of actually using it in a near-term project are also pretty slim. |
| 16:36.51 | hans | :) |
| 16:37.16 | levi | There seem to be some nice Scheme-to-C compilers, though. |
| 16:37.52 | levi | Did you ever look at that 'Cheney on the MTA' document I mentioned a while back? |
| 16:38.27 | hans | what was it on? |
| 16:40.36 | kpettit | thanks osynic, that board looks pretty sweet |
| 16:41.10 | levi | On a method of translating a continuation-passing-style program to C for compilation. |
| 16:42.01 | levi | A CPS-style program never returns, each function explicitly calls its continuation. |
| 16:42.26 | levi | Which, as you can imagine, is not a very obvious thing to do in C. |
| 16:43.28 | hans | oh yeah, I read that. or skimmed it anyhow |
| 16:43.34 | hans | cool. a hack, but cool |
| 16:43.39 | levi | Anyway, translating a scheme program to CPS is pretty straightforward, and then you get the call/cc function for free. |
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| 16:44.08 | levi | Definitely a hack, but a hack that's compliant with the language spec, so it's not too evil. |
| 16:45.41 | levi | The C coroutines and the lightweight thread things from Contiki are definitely hacks, too. But cool ones. |
| 16:46.05 | levi | They're the same sort of thing as Duff's Device. |
| 16:47.28 | levi | Anyway, Chicken Scheme is built based on that paper. |
| 16:49.27 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:51.36 | Maquis | joshc: i could fake LAMP and javascript... |
| 16:51.49 | Maquis | but i'm assuming you're looking for someone with real experience... :) |
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| 17:01.11 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:03.02 | spig | joshc: you looking for your generalists yet? |
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| 17:10.46 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:12.38 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:13.03 | indessed | anybody know a way to check postgres databases for errors? (like mysql's isamchk) |
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| 17:16.09 | spig | it's good |
| 17:16.43 | spig | keeping me busy |
| 17:17.09 | shadoi | indessed: run the vacuum |
| 17:17.55 | indessed | thanks, shadoi. i'll give that a try. |
| 17:20.59 | shadoi | http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.4/interactive/sql-vacuum.html |
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| 17:48.04 | xbmodder_ | hey all |
| 17:48.20 | xbmodder_ | 2supppy! |
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| 17:57.33 | tensai | ~lart Qwest |
| 17:57.37 | tensai | ~lart qwest |
| 17:57.43 | tensai | ~lart QWEST |
| 17:57.53 | tensai | ~lart Qwest! |
| 17:58.00 | hans | Maquis: try now |
| 17:58.18 | Maquis | great... |
| 17:58.21 | Maquis | thanks :) |
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| 17:58.42 | tensai | we order a bandwidth upgrade in Montana. They performed the upgrade on our Wyoming circuit which took out both MT & WY. |
| 17:58.57 | tensai | then they do the same to Idaho before we're ready and that one goes down |
| 17:59.29 | tensai | they managed to cause outages for every single one of our customers within an hour. that's impressive. |
| 18:00.05 | Maquis | haha... |
| 18:00.10 | Maquis | "impressive" |
| 18:01.44 | shadoi | OUTAGE-ALITY |
| 18:01.58 | tensai | I'm just glad they waited till 9:30am when none of our customers are trying to use the internet |
| 18:02.32 | tensai | ~lart qwest |
| 18:03.50 | levi | Hmm. I thought it would be cool to see if I could get one of the scheme-to-C compilers to output some code that'd run on my embedded board, but my cross-compiler chokes on their output. :( |
| 18:04.07 | levi | Oh well. I guess I'm stuck with C! |
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| 18:22.06 | Maquis | virtual_memory has been winning... |
| 18:22.25 | virtual_memory | haha! I 0wnz j00! |
| 18:23.11 | joshc | just corrupt his TLB |
| 18:23.17 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:23.29 | virtual_memory | I'm melting.... 2n3ioj23 saliw. r2 3la; |
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| 18:28.26 | virtual_memory | Fortunately, all it take is a reboot to clean things up. |
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| 18:39.13 | tensai | virtual_memory: malloc(256) |
| 18:39.27 | virtual_memory | -1 |
| 18:40.04 | tensai | virtual_memory: free(0x8ccc1034) |
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| 18:41.03 | virtual_memory | $)(&p08-[086-[ |
| 18:41.38 | Bradipo | http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/00feb/20000213.html |
| 19:36.56 | Maquis | GRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 19:37.13 | jsmith | Maquis: My feeling exactly.... |
| 19:38.12 | Maquis | i can't get it to run in 16 frames |
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| 19:38.50 | Maquis | and i don't know why! |
| 19:39.58 | hans | I can't figure out why nagios thinks I'm logging in as "?" |
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| 19:55.02 | jsmith | hans: That's a great question... are you going to "http:?@nagiosbox.tld" |
| 19:55.21 | jsmith | hans: Or do you have your default user set to ? in cgi.cfg? |
| 19:55.36 | hans | jsmith: no default user set, but if there is, that's what nagios thinks I'm logged in as |
| 19:56.15 | hans | http://nagios@tea/nagios/ doesn't help either |
| 19:56.39 | hans | I do the basic auth and log in as the user, but nagios isn't getting the message. |
| 20:03.13 | hans | ~nslookup irc.freenode.net |
| 20:03.24 | hans | anyone know the real ip? poor levi can't get in. |
| 20:03.41 | mrpull | isn't it dns round robin'ed? |
| 20:04.08 | hans | they've got dns pointing to 127.0.0.1 for everytihg now, I guess to keep out the bad old script kiddies |
| 20:04.15 | mrpull | odd. |
| 20:05.41 | Jayce^ | Name: irc.freenode.net |
| 20:05.41 | Jayce^ | Address: 140.211.166.3 |
| 20:05.41 | Jayce^ | Name: irc.freenode.net |
| 20:05.41 | Jayce^ | Address: 140.211.166.4 |
| 20:05.41 | Jayce^ | Name: irc.freenode.net |
| 20:05.41 | Jayce^ | Address: 212.204.214.114 |
| 20:05.42 | jsmith | hans: Yup, they did. |
| 20:05.44 | Jayce^ | Name: irc.freenode.net |
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| 20:05.50 | Jayce^ | Address: 217.172.187.182 |
| 20:06.04 | hans | guess it's back to normal now |
| 20:07.15 | mrpull | strange. I saw the 127.0.0.1 from dnsstuff too. |
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| 20:08.46 | SpecialK | ~lart Maquis |
| 20:09.43 | Maquis | ~lart SpecialK |
| 20:30.52 | spig | exit |
| 20:31.00 | hans | exito |
| 20:31.16 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 20:38.48 | Jayce^ | wal-mart has incredibles for $15.87, for those interested.. |
| 20:40.23 | *** join/#utah beandog (~sdibb@64.50.56.200) |
| 20:45.55 | Bradipo | Way to go WalMart, bring those prices down. |
| 20:46.14 | Bradipo | Seems that DVDs often cost less than CDs, I wonder why that is. |
| 20:46.27 | sjansen | Because DVD makers are less corrupt. |
| 20:46.35 | sjansen | plain |
| 20:46.36 | sjansen | and |
| 20:46.37 | sjansen | simple |
| 20:47.00 | *** join/#utah rehatalpha (~al@c-24-10-202-248.client.comcast.net) |
| 20:48.19 | beandog | what did walmart do? |
| 20:48.55 | sjansen | beandog: Walmart is giving away copies of the Incredibles. Just go in, grab your copy, and walk out. |
| 20:49.12 | beandog | hmm |
| 20:49.16 | beandog | Too bad I already took my lunch break. |
| 20:49.19 | sjansen | But act calm, it's viral marketing and Walmart is afraid of too many people finding out. |
| 20:49.56 | sjansen | If security accuses you of "shop lifting" tell them you have Sam Walton's permission and they can call him if they don't believe you. |
| 20:50.28 | beandog | Its easier than that. Just buy one DVD, stick another in your jacket. |
| 20:50.47 | beandog | Youll set off the beeper, but when they scan you, youre already past the checkpoint. |
| 20:51.38 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@firebat.aros.net) |
| 20:52.51 | beandog | Or just go into the garden section and chuck it over the fence |
| 20:53.54 | beandog | or just swing your bag over your head while youre walking past the checkpoint |
| 20:54.08 | sjansen | Hide it in the purse of a mother with at least three children. When she sets off the alarm, tackle her, act like a hero, and demand a free copy of the movie as your reward. |
| 20:54.28 | beandog | and the purse |
| 20:58.56 | Bradipo | beandog: WalMart has The Incredibles on DVD for $15.87 (according to Jayce^) |
| 21:00.55 | *** join/#utah levi (~levi@208.177.141.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:02.48 | levi | Ahh, I can connect again. |
| 21:03.04 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 21:03.38 | beandog | Bradipo: Ah, thanks |
| 21:05.06 | beandog | Tomorrow it'll be $22 Im sure. |
| 21:05.21 | sjansen | http://metaatem.net/words.php |
| 21:06.12 | beandog | now thats interesting |
| 21:07.38 | Jayce^ | quite cool |
| 21:07.41 | Jayce^ | flikr is fun |
| 21:08.07 | beandog | Jayce^: are you gonna buy me the DVD for my birthday :D |
| 21:08.22 | Jayce^ | beandog, only if you buy me one first:) |
| 21:09.59 | beandog | Hmm. |
| 21:14.34 | beandog | Ill buy you a mousepad |
| 21:15.15 | hans | yeah, like disco |
| 21:15.27 | sjansen | Don't you mean, grab you one off the top of the reproducing pile of mouse pads in the supply closet? |
| 21:15.56 | beandog | I meant an increidbles mousepad |
| 21:16.05 | hans | Bradipo: now you've got me hacking daemons to provide a switch to not "daemonize" |
| 21:21.12 | mrpull | i saw that flickr trick the other day with yahoo images... |
| 21:21.28 | mrpull | i'm guessing this guy was "inspired" by that hack |
| 21:21.48 | sjansen | So how do I do the equivalent of rpm -qi <package> on Debian? |
| 21:23.54 | fozz | Is there an rpm4deb somewhere? :) |
| 21:24.14 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:24.40 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:25.11 | sjansen | joshc: no |
| 21:25.35 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:25.36 | sjansen | fozz: actually, IIRC, there is, but I want to learn to do things the "Debian way" |
| 21:25.54 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:26.20 | sjansen | I want package information: description, build date, signatures, size, etc. |
| 21:26.54 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:27.16 | Bradipo | hans: That's great. |
| 21:27.31 | Bradipo | I do that too on those daemons that I need running and which don't already have one. |
| 21:27.31 | mrpull | dpkg -s <package> |
| 21:27.33 | mrpull | ? |
| 21:27.41 | Bradipo | I think openssh finally added one and so did apache 2.x |
| 21:28.44 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.09 | mrpull | ahh... I assumed it was already installed. |
| 21:29.42 | hans | joshc: not so |
| 21:29.48 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.20 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.53 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.53 | sjansen | joshc: rpm -qi only works on installed packages too |
| 21:31.12 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:31.18 | jsmith | sjansen: But rpm -qpi should work on an uninstalled package |
| 21:31.38 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:31.39 | sjansen | right, if you had it available |
| 21:31.57 | jsmith | sjansen: Or, if you have yum, you could do "yum info <package>" |
| 21:32.07 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:32.26 | sjansen | jsmith: Not to be rude, but I'm very familiar with RPM systems. Trying to learn Debian. |
| 21:32.30 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:32.52 | sjansen | joshc: that's an effective argument you've got there |
| 21:32.56 | jsmith | sjansen: Don't let me stand in your way! |
| 21:33.04 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:34.35 | sjansen | Okay, now how do I find out if a package is stable/unstable/testing? Any way to find out the source repository? |
| 21:35.12 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:35.25 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:35.40 | hans | apt-cache show will tell you |
| 21:35.59 | hans | or packages.debian.org/packagename |
| 21:36.54 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:37.33 | *** join/#utah sncs (yrc@206.53.63.2) |
| 21:37.34 | sjansen | I'm not seeing it in apt-cache show. |
| 21:37.39 | sjansen | clear |
| 21:38.53 | hans | you're right, it's not there. I was thinking about version numbers I guess |
| 21:39.03 | hans | the web site is easier to see anyway, if you have a browser handy |
| 21:39.14 | hans | as in, less copious |
| 21:39.16 | sjansen | slower and less scriptable too |
| 21:41.47 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:42.02 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:42.12 | sjansen | canopy has cut sco loose! |
| 21:43.35 | Jayce^ | really? |
| 21:45.31 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:47.39 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:48.10 | sjansen | of course, it also means the chances of sco ever returning to its senses are approximating nil |
| 21:50.39 | mrpull | so who is going to buy SCO and make all this madness go away? |
| 21:50.47 | sjansen | hopefully no one |
| 21:50.48 | Newsome | nobody |
| 21:50.55 | sjansen | total implosion would be better for Linux |
| 21:51.02 | mrpull | what happens to their IP? |
| 21:51.09 | sjansen | heh |
| 21:51.16 | Newsome | what IP? |
| 21:51.17 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:51.18 | sjansen | What IP? |
| 21:51.46 | sjansen | joshc: How do you figure. It's hard to stay in business without customers. |
| 21:52.07 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:52.18 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:52.38 | Jayce^ | last year they also got most of that as one-time payouts from a couple of large profile people |
| 21:53.32 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:53.35 | mrpull | (unfortunately, our company bought a bunch of Linux licenses) |
| 21:53.55 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:54.05 | Jayce^ | mrpull, what company? |
| 21:54.19 | Newsome | Questar? |
| 21:54.35 | mrpull | I shouldn't talk about it :) |
| 21:54.43 | Jayce^ | microsoft :) |
| 21:55.11 | Jayce^ | that hosting company, and sun |
| 21:55.21 | mrpull | lets just say I threw a fit when I heard the news |
| 21:55.24 | Newsome | Questar, Leggett & Platt, EV1, Sun, M$, ... |
| 21:56.29 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 21:56.46 | Newsome | SCO's last reported quarter ended July 31, 2004. |
| 21:57.35 | Newsome | Revenue about $10.5 million, operating expenses $8.7 million...Income from operations about $183,000 |
| 21:57.45 | Jayce^ | that's why they are ready to be delisted |
| 21:57.57 | sjansen | joshc: Would you continue as a SCO customer knowing their track record? |
| 21:58.24 | Newsome | That's from the "UNIX business" |
| 21:58.26 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:58.45 | Newsome | The "SCOSource business": loss of $7.5 million |
| 21:59.05 | Newsome | http://biz.yahoo.com/e/040914/scoxe10-q.html |
| 21:59.45 | sjansen | joshc: That they do, but the death of Unixware/OpenServer has been seen coming for some time. |
| 22:00.14 | sjansen | I'd not be surprised that most former/current SCO customers are transitioning off, and have probably had a few years to think about it. |
| 22:02.12 | Newsome | "Revenue from our UNIX business decreased by $2,248,000, or 18 percent, for the third quarter of fiscal year 2004 compared to the third quarter of fiscal year 2003, and revenue from our UNIX business decreased by $7,409,000, or 19 percent, for the first three quarters of fiscal year 2004 compared to the first three quarters of fiscal year 2003." |
| 22:04.50 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:05.17 | sjansen | Because, like Enron, they're too large to disappear over night? |
| 22:05.29 | Newsome | heh. |
| 22:05.33 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:05.33 | Newsome | We shall see. |
| 22:06.00 | sjansen | And mounting legal fees, disappearing customers, and diminishing credibility. |
| 22:06.02 | mrpull | there are a bunch of pluggers that work for SCO... |
| 22:06.02 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:06.14 | mrpull | let's hope for the best for their families |
| 22:06.31 | sjansen | They could last years while things play out in the courts, or thing could go sour very quickly. |
| 22:06.33 | mrpull | I would like to see SCO be less scummy. |
| 22:06.42 | sjansen | I would like to see SCO gone. |
| 22:06.53 | sjansen | Time for anyone with sense to be looking for another job. |
| 22:07.05 | mrpull | some speculated that IBM would buy them rather than fight them. Is that good or bad? |
| 22:07.13 | sjansen | Bad. |
| 22:07.34 | sjansen | Better for IBM to show that they can't be bullied, and that Linux is on a secure foundation. |
| 22:07.40 | *** join/#utah Pedlar (~xbox@65.174.25.15) |
| 22:07.52 | Newsome | IBM hasn't bought them in the last 2 years. I don't see why they would now. |
| 22:07.57 | sjansen | At this point, it makes no sense for IBM to buy SCO. |
| 22:08.03 | Pedlar | Hello |
| 22:08.04 | mrpull | agreed |
| 22:08.25 | sjansen | Maybe two years ago, but after so much expense the only way to get a return on their investment is see the case out and pound SCO into the ground. |
| 22:08.35 | sjansen | Discourage anyone trying the same thing ever again. |
| 22:08.38 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:08.52 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:08.52 | hans | sunken costs |
| 22:10.02 | Newsome | No, it's increased awareness of Linux, shown that Linux is good for business, and proven that Linux is free of anyone else's IP. |
| 22:10.46 | Newsome | It's brought in business for IBM, so it's a win for them. |
| 22:10.59 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:11.07 | Jayce^ | supposedly |
| 22:11.36 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:11.45 | sjansen | Sucessfully defending themselves has removed concerns that prevented more conservative customers from considering Linux. |
| 22:11.50 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:11.57 | Jayce^ | supposedly a lot of people have sought them about it (consulting, products, etc) |
| 22:12.51 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:13.00 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:13.06 | sjansen | heh |
| 22:13.08 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:13.23 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:13.52 | sjansen | joshc: You did strike me as the type that would base important IT decisions on chack images painted onto sidewalks. |
| 22:13.57 | sjansen | s/did/didn't/ |
| 22:14.05 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:18.27 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:19.36 | hans | i make all my important it decisions on irc |
| 22:20.12 | Newsome | <subliminal>hans, you should lart sjansen</subliminal> |
| 22:20.20 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:20.59 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:21.00 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:21.06 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:21.50 | sjansen | With exception of Oracle, the best software I ever used has been free, and the worst has been quite expensive. |
| 22:21.51 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:22.18 | sjansen | joshc: Sadly, you're right. But even a partial victory is a victory none the less. |
| 22:22.59 | sjansen | It's not the sales people I mind so much as the enormous expenses their incure to sell their product, increasing the bottom line without increasing the quality. |
| 22:23.20 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:23.47 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:24.30 | sjansen | I'v rarely had to deal with them, just their sucky products. |
| 22:24.53 | sjansen | Those few times I have, I had to budget. They were just buttering me up with freebies so I'd complain to my boss less. |
| 22:25.03 | sjansen | s/to budget/no budget/ |
| 22:25.26 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:25.30 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:25.36 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:25.55 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:26.32 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:26.37 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:30.54 | mrpull | ~seen fozz |
| 22:31.04 | ibot | fozz <~fozz@166.70.238.250> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 1h 7m 10s ago, saying: 'Is there an rpm4deb somewhere? :)'. |
| 22:31.56 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@208.252.172.98) |
| 22:44.16 | Pedlar | Anyone here help me? |
| 22:45.34 | sjansen | Pedlar: Depends on what type of help you need. |
| 22:49.31 | neybar | did I miss the sales persons bashing? |
| 23:36.40 | *** join/#utah lukfugl (~lukfugl@host-19.pl107798-3.fiber.net) |
| 23:37.16 | lukfugl | any perl CGI experts in here who can tell me how to get the POST content *not* interpreted as either 'keywords' or name/value pairs? |
| 23:38.04 | lukfugl | I'm writing a ReST interface and want to send data to the create/update actions using POST, but in XML, not html-form |
| 23:39.38 | lukfugl | I've figured out how to generate the generic POST on the client side with LWP::UserAgent and HTTP::Request, but the $request object returned by CGI::Fast->new doesn't have any handle to the raw POST data |
| 23:39.59 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~jayce@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 23:40.00 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 23:40.54 | lukfugl | hey Jayce, perl question |
| 23:41.44 | lukfugl | how can I get raw POST data while using CGI::Fast? ie. I don't want the post data interpreted as name=value pairs or space delimited keywords |
| 23:42.07 | emcnabb | http://samba.org/ppp/features.html |
| 23:42.32 | emcnabb | this feature list is scary |
| 23:42.40 | mrpull | it describes me well :) |
| 23:48.56 | lukfugl | ~wave Jayce^ |
| 23:48.58 | ibot | Bye, Jayce^ |
| 23:49.35 | sjansen | ~headbut Jayce^ |
| 23:50.32 | Maquis | emcnabb: :) |
| 23:59.30 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@71.32.228.156) |
