| 00:00.06 | shadoi | or strace the mailman process to see where it's looking. |
| 00:00.21 | nathangg- | well... I changed the Defaults.py for mailman and everything was fine |
| 00:00.36 | nathangg- | but the README says, "DON'T CHANGE Defaults.py"... so I changed mm_cfg.py instead |
| 00:00.40 | nathangg- | but now I'm having this problem |
| 00:03.29 | nathangg- | I found some of the perpetrators.../etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0, /etc/dhclient-eth0.conf |
| 00:06.02 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.192.70) |
| 00:06.49 | vontrapp | |lart hans |
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| 00:19.53 | bucky | hi levi |
| 00:23.49 | levi | bucky: Heya. |
| 00:23.53 | bucky | hihi |
| 00:23.54 | levi | Time for me to head home! |
| 00:24.05 | bucky | way to go on the new board |
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| 01:12.52 | findlay | what's a good GPL symbolic math engine? |
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| 01:15.54 | SpecialK | ~lart Maquis |
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| 01:41.49 | findlay | nobody knows? I guess I'll have to write my own (: |
| 01:42.32 | tene | ermm... |
| 01:42.34 | goozbach | ~laart stoplights |
| 01:43.25 | goozbach | ~lart stoplights |
| 01:50.20 | findlay | at least goozbach typed that while at a stoplight rahter than zooming down I-215 at 90 MpH while cutting off the cluless tenage girl driving the little honda and talking on a cell phone |
| 01:50.49 | tene | ... |
| 01:51.07 | tene | wow, there is someting *broken* in my head today. |
| 01:51.14 | findlay | sorry tene no more |
| 01:51.25 | findlay | that's the end of the story |
| 01:51.26 | tene | I read that as... wait, actually, I don't want to reveal that in public. |
| 01:51.41 | tene | or in private, for that matter. |
| 01:55.01 | tene | 20:53 <@Wiggy> Okay, netcat for windows sucks |
| 01:55.01 | tene | 20:53 <@tene> oh? |
| 01:55.01 | tene | 20:53 <@Wiggy> It starts out with Cmd line: |
| 01:55.01 | tene | 20:53 <@tene> o.O |
| 01:55.01 | tene | 20:53 <@Wiggy> SO I enter in "I like you" |
| 01:55.03 | tene | 20:53 <@Wiggy> AND IT CRASHES |
| 02:04.34 | findlay | that's pretty funny |
| 02:15.52 | LeviHome | Mmm, steaks on the grill. |
| 02:16.48 | findlay | but still close to irc |
| 02:17.12 | findlay | close to technology, that sounds like the good life |
| 02:17.30 | tene | by "grill" he means "flames from combining #gentoo and #debian" |
| 02:18.47 | findlay | #gentoo is such a rapid flame at that |
| 02:19.23 | LeviHome | Why would anyone combine #gentoo and #debian? |
| 02:19.33 | sjansen | pure evil |
| 02:19.46 | sjansen | to kill two birds with one stone? |
| 02:19.48 | LeviHome | This is #utah, we're supposed to be good. |
| 02:20.00 | tene | sjansen: to grill a steak. |
| 02:20.09 | tene | grilling meat is always a good cause. |
| 02:21.17 | LeviHome | Why bricolage? |
| 02:21.30 | sjansen | The new Plug site is being done in Bricolage. |
| 02:22.04 | sjansen | It's a great CMS, but a beast to configure. Which is what I'm doing. Or will be doing as soon as I finishing re-screwing my courage to its sticking place. |
| 02:22.48 | findlay | why doth the drum come hither? |
| 02:24.23 | *** join/#utah jsmith (~jsmith@smithfam.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 02:25.11 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@c-67-161-219-228.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:26.25 | jsmith | Man, I thought that would at least elecit some kind of response -- I guess I'll have to mention PHP to get somebody's reaction |
| 02:26.59 | sjansen | jsmith: better? |
| 02:30.11 | tensai | jsmith: three asterisk boxes and counting |
| 02:30.54 | tensai | speaking of Trek, due to those donations are they actually running another Enterprise series? |
| 02:31.07 | tensai | s/series/season/ |
| 02:33.02 | jsmith | tensai: The verdict is still out. |
| 02:33.11 | jsmith | tensai: I'm glad to hear you're liking Asterisk. |
| 02:33.29 | jsmith | sjansen: They promised to give the money back if the 5th season doesn't run. |
| 02:40.23 | jsmith | sjansen: You're asking for trouble :-) |
| 02:52.52 | sjansen | A kind sould has distracted me by askig javascript questions. |
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| 03:53.38 | goozbach | w00t! this time no parking tickets |
| 03:53.49 | sjansen | ? |
| 03:54.03 | goozbach | lart byu parking nazis |
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| 04:40.41 | *** part/#utah spig (~spig_@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
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| 04:52.37 | Maquis | |lart SpecialK |
| 04:53.41 | Maquis | :) |
| 04:54.32 | sjansen | Argh. So now I've got a package installed that won't go away. |
| 04:54.38 | sjansen | ~lart dpkg |
| 04:55.23 | jsmith | sjansen: What, you complaining about dpkg? That's new :-) |
| 04:55.40 | sjansen | /var/lib/dpkg/info/plone-site.postrm: line 20: dzhandle: command not found |
| 04:56.21 | sjansen | rpm may not be perfect, but at least when you tell it to make a package go away it goes away |
| 04:59.35 | *** part/#utah nathangg- (user@128.187.253.44) |
| 05:02.14 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (~Hhhhh@c-67-161-218-202.client.comcast.net) |
| 05:02.22 | Hhhhh | hullo |
| 05:02.30 | sjansen | (^$(*&^)&%(^$(^$(&%(*&%(*&^ Debian )&%)&%)*&_)(&(*^$^%*YG:OUHY_)(Y*H |
| 05:03.18 | goozbach | Hhhhhullo |
| 05:03.59 | Hhhhh | any big UT fans here? |
| 05:04.07 | Hhhhh | ut = Unreal Tournament |
| 05:04.07 | goozbach | sjansen, tell us how you really feel |
| 05:04.29 | goozbach | Hhhh i play it quite a bit |
| 05:04.58 | Hhhhh | I think it is the best game ever made that runs on Linux |
| 05:05.23 | Maquis | ~mock sjansen |
| 05:05.25 | ibot | ACTION pulls sjansen's pants down and shows the world sjansen's pink spotted underwear |
| 05:05.30 | sjansen | Really, though, isn't this _my_ fault? I knew what I was getting into when I installed Debian. Then in a fit of madness I installed zope too! |
| 05:05.33 | Hhhhh | lol, distro bashing |
| 05:05.40 | Maquis | zope? |
| 05:05.41 | brigham | Web application platform used for building high-performance, dynamic web sites.. URL: http://www.zope.org/ |
| 05:05.51 | Maquis | brigham: thanks |
| 05:06.28 | goozbach | till hl2 gets ported |
| 05:06.41 | Hhhhh | well, that will happen in 79478934789342789423789234 years |
| 05:06.41 | jsmith | sjansen: You're really hating life tonight, aren't you... :-) |
| 05:06.53 | Hhhhh | and i still think Ut2k4 is better :) |
| 05:07.05 | Hhhhh | i've bee playing some mods |
| 05:07.06 | goozbach | hhhh which servers you play on? |
| 05:07.33 | Hhhhh | well, I haven't been able to play online because my connection is having problems |
| 05:07.45 | Hhhhh | Also, i don't have favorites in UT2k4 |
| 05:07.49 | Hhhhh | i do in Ut99 though |
| 05:07.53 | goozbach | played alien swarm yet? |
| 05:07.56 | sjansen | Maquis: Ha ha! Been there, done that! |
| 05:08.04 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 05:08.05 | Hhhhh | i played it once, i didn't like it |
| 05:08.15 | Hhhhh | i really liked deathball and frag.ops |
| 05:08.29 | Hhhhh | and chaosut is ok |
| 05:08.50 | goozbach | Ill have to give those a try |
| 05:09.01 | Hhhhh | any of you guys went to the BYU game development club meeting this week? |
| 05:09.15 | Hhhhh | i'm going to try to see if we can organize a UT fest |
| 05:09.16 | goozbach | the clone bandits mod is fun |
| 05:09.24 | Hhhhh | clone bandit is cool, yea |
| 05:09.35 | flyboy^ | Game development? I once made an ascii version of snake in Perl - does that count? |
| 05:09.41 | Hhhhh | i'm downloading one called eden eclipse right now |
| 05:09.44 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:09.46 | Hhhhh | sure |
| 05:09.54 | Hhhhh | it's agme, isn't it? |
| 05:09.58 | Hhhhh | i mean game |
| 05:10.03 | goozbach | Hhhhh subscribed to ut-gaming? |
| 05:10.20 | Hhhhh | although if you wanna do graphics programming, i'd suggest using something else other than perl |
| 05:10.25 | Hhhhh | no, where is that? |
| 05:10.32 | Hhhhh | goozbach, where is that? |
| 05:11.02 | goozbach | just a sec and Ill get the info |
| 05:11.07 | Hhhhh | k, thanks |
| 05:11.29 | sjansen | Bah. I don't know whether to respect the fact that I was able to hack dpkg to get the package removed, or despise the fact that I had to. |
| 05:12.17 | Hhhhh | hey, you know what's funny? i'm in a graphics class, and we had to make a ray tracer. one guy in the class made it perl, as opposed to the rest of us who used C++. His program would need 5 mins to render an image that mine would do in kless than a second, lol |
| 05:12.55 | sjansen | Yeah, be he wrote it in half an hour while you groveled over C++ for weeks. |
| 05:13.14 | Hhhhh | well, there is a catch |
| 05:13.28 | Maquis | sjansen: i'm for doing both... :) |
| 05:13.31 | Hhhhh | we had to add many features to the ray tracer that made it about 100 times slower |
| 05:13.34 | Hhhhh | imagine that in perl |
| 05:13.48 | Hhhhh | i mean, perl is nice but you don't wanna use it for graphics |
| 05:14.04 | Hhhhh | there is no such thing as a tool that is "the best for everything" |
| 05:14.06 | Maquis | AAAAIIIIIIII!!!!!!!! |
| 05:14.11 | Maquis | a pop-under!!!! |
| 05:14.12 | flyboy^ | oh brother |
| 05:14.20 | sjansen | Sure there is, it's called a hammer. |
| 05:14.24 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:14.42 | Maquis | when all you've got is a hammer, everything starts looking like a thumb |
| 05:14.45 | Hhhhh | well, try to fix a watch with a hammer |
| 05:14.51 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:15.32 | sjansen | *whack* There you go mister. Now you can buy a new watch. |
| 05:15.41 | Hhhhh | heh |
| 05:16.15 | Hhhhh | anybody here studies CS a@ BYU? |
| 05:16.25 | Maquis | Hhhhh: yup |
| 05:16.44 | Hhhhh | yea, i remember hearing your pain about CS 345 maquis |
| 05:16.53 | Hhhhh | what are you taking sjansen |
| 05:17.06 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:17.11 | sjansen | oops, missed that little matter of present tense |
| 05:17.12 | jsmith | Two heathen schools, to be precise |
| 05:17.16 | Hhhhh | don't worry, computers are atheists |
| 05:17.24 | goozbach | https://lists.gurulabs.com/mailman/listinfo/ut-gaming |
| 05:17.39 | goozbach | Hhhhh: ^^^ there ya are |
| 05:17.43 | Hhhhh | thanks man |
| 05:17.53 | goozbach | its the UT-gaming mailing lilst |
| 05:18.09 | goozbach | sorry it took soo long, I had to break out my laptop |
| 05:18.30 | goozbach | (I was connected through my phone before) |
| 05:18.35 | Hhhhh | thanks a lot |
| 05:19.18 | Hhhhh | well, i don't know if you guys heard that at CS@BYU now CS 312 is taught in C# |
| 05:19.24 | Hhhhh | what do you guys think? |
| 05:19.24 | brigham | what do you guys think is the best bluetooth mouse? I like the microsoft one that comes with the optical desktop, since it's scroll wheel is really smooth, but I don't really need the wireless keyboard and I'm wondering if there's a good one I've missed... |
| 05:19.35 | Maquis | |forget what do you guys think |
| 05:19.36 | brigham | can do! |
| 05:19.39 | Maquis | Hhhhh: i think they' |
| 05:20.06 | Maquis | heard me complaining enough last semester when i was taking cs312 (and it wasn't even c#.net then... just c++ on the .net platform) |
| 05:20.14 | Hhhhh | well, yea |
| 05:20.23 | Hhhhh | i took it last semester too, and it was tough |
| 05:20.42 | Hhhhh | i have to admit that i liked the fact that it was in VC++.NET though |
| 05:20.50 | Hhhhh | i need to force myself to learn it |
| 05:20.59 | Hhhhh | and now I love VS.NET 2003 |
| 05:21.21 | Hhhhh | I wish there was an OSS tool like it |
| 05:21.45 | sjansen | VS - the first one's free |
| 05:21.46 | Maquis | Hhhhh: who'd you have? warnick? |
| 05:21.53 | Hhhhh | warnick |
| 05:21.55 | Hhhhh | yea |
| 05:22.07 | Hhhhh | he's good, but the second half of the semester got tough |
| 05:22.15 | Hhhhh | the first one was cool though |
| 05:22.16 | sjansen | VS - now more crackalicious |
| 05:22.21 | Maquis | Hhhhh: so, we were in the same class? hmmm... |
| 05:22.26 | Hhhhh | which section? |
| 05:22.33 | sjansen | VS - we write bad code so you don't have to |
| 05:22.36 | Maquis | 11? |
| 05:22.37 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:22.41 | Hhhhh | VS is awesome man |
| 05:22.47 | Maquis | ummm... no |
| 05:22.49 | Hhhhh | ok, i think i was in that one |
| 05:23.06 | Hhhhh | you guys don't like VS? |
| 05:23.17 | Hhhhh | i've tried many tools |
| 05:23.31 | sjansen | And none of them beat good ole' Vim. |
| 05:23.34 | Hhhhh | i'm not some sort of pro-M$ freak |
| 05:23.37 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:23.39 | Maquis | Hhhhh: what time did you have class? (i might've been wrong about the time i had it) |
| 05:23.41 | Hhhhh | vim is nice |
| 05:24.05 | sjansen | Although I have to admit, if I were forced to do J2EE I'd demand and IDE. |
| 05:24.12 | Maquis | nuttin beats vim... (except possibly gvim) |
| 05:24.27 | Hhhhh | but i really mean this: i'm tried those good text editors (Emacs, Vim), i've tried many IDEs (anjuta, JBuilder, Eclipse with CDT plugin, kdevelop) |
| 05:24.47 | Hhhhh | i have to say that i can code fatser and better in VS |
| 05:24.52 | Hhhhh | faster i mean |
| 05:24.54 | Maquis | fatter? |
| 05:24.57 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:25.00 | Hhhhh | vim is nice |
| 05:25.16 | Hhhhh | but there is a point in which i think the shortcuts don't make up for the rest |
| 05:25.27 | goozbach | perl perl perl! |
| 05:25.40 | sjansen | Finally! Half an hour just to man perlsyn. |
| 05:25.43 | sjansen | ~lart Debian |
| 05:25.44 | Hhhhh | i think that for each thing there is a best tool |
| 05:25.53 | Hhhhh | for Java, Eclipse |
| 05:26.01 | goozbach | er as well |
| 05:26.05 | Hhhhh | for C++, VS.NET |
| 05:26.14 | sjansen | Nah, just don't write C++. |
| 05:26.19 | Hhhhh | well, that's myu own point of view |
| 05:26.21 | Hhhhh | ? |
| 05:26.35 | Hhhhh | can't do decent graphics w/o C++ |
| 05:26.37 | sjansen | For C, Vim + etags. For C++, a resignation letter. |
| 05:26.43 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:26.45 | Hhhhh | C is nice |
| 05:26.52 | Hhhhh | but why drop OOP altogether? |
| 05:27.01 | Maquis | sjansen: you rock! :) |
| 05:27.15 | Hhhhh | OOP in C++ has the speed of C and the ease of coding of Java and C# |
| 05:27.31 | Hhhhh | and it lets you do procedural programming too |
| 05:27.58 | Maquis | but it sucks |
| 05:28.03 | Hhhhh | W-H-Y |
| 05:28.09 | sjansen | Who said anything about completely dropping OOP? There's always C#, and Perl, and ... |
| 05:28.22 | Maquis | C is much easier to catch on to... |
| 05:28.26 | Hhhhh | why? |
| 05:28.27 | brigham | why is it that IBM has to show its code to AIX, when SCO won't show any code... |
| 05:28.35 | sjansen | C++ has the pain of C _and_ the pain of Java, and the reliability of neither. |
| 05:28.40 | Hhhhh | i don't see how C can be easier than C++ |
| 05:28.48 | Maquis | fewer commands... |
| 05:28.48 | flyboy^ | Today I asked our "top" applicant for a lead software engineering position if he could write a regex - he said no. So learn those regexs programmers. Please. |
| 05:28.51 | Hhhhh | i don't know what you're taking abouty |
| 05:28.56 | Maquis | the commands make sense... |
| 05:29.01 | Hhhhh | what? |
| 05:29.02 | brigham | what are at least 10 things an Inode tracks? (question form). |
| 05:29.13 | Hhhhh | C++ makes perfect sense man |
| 05:29.17 | Maquis | brigham: forget what |
| 05:29.18 | brigham | aight |
| 05:29.21 | Hhhhh | it's proven to be reliable |
| 05:29.24 | sjansen | Want to learn C, but the K&R book. Want to learn C++? Quit your job and go on welfare. Last I'd heard, no compiler had finished implementing the standard it's so large. |
| 05:29.34 | Hhhhh | it can make development easier to structurize |
| 05:29.41 | sjansen | ~hug perl regex |
| 05:29.43 | ibot | ACTION hugs perl regex |
| 05:29.43 | flyboy^ | lol |
| 05:29.48 | Maquis | Hhhhh: i just find C a lot easier to pick up... don't have to learn nearly as many commands, etc... |
| 05:29.49 | Hhhhh | and *the best*, you don't have to hunt functions in like 786786786786786 header files |
| 05:29.57 | Hhhhh | that's why i hate old C code |
| 05:29.59 | Hhhhh | that's why i hate old C code |
| 05:30.25 | Hhhhh | everything organized in OO structures |
| 05:30.25 | sjansen | why is brigham so annoying? |
| 05:30.28 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.192.70) |
| 05:30.31 | flyboy^ | I think Hhhhh doesn't like C code for some reason. |
| 05:30.41 | sjansen | what is brigham doing answer questions he's not asked |
| 05:30.43 | Hhhhh | well, i've nothing against C |
| 05:30.51 | sjansen | when will brigham shut up |
| 05:30.57 | sjansen | when is brigham going to shut up |
| 05:31.02 | Hhhhh | i've had VERY bad experiences reading old hack C code |
| 05:31.16 | Maquis | sjansen: leave him alone |
| 05:31.17 | Hhhhh | it's like an octopus hug |
| 05:31.23 | flyboy^ | I'm waiting to see if brigham will get a few wifes going. Then he won't be able to talk for all the yapping. |
| 05:31.26 | sjansen | That's because very few people actually know how to write C. |
| 05:31.28 | goozbach | when? |
| 05:31.29 | brigham | when is brigham going to shut up |
| 05:31.35 | goozbach | ha |
| 05:31.51 | Hhhhh | yea, but why not do C++? i agree that C is good, but why do you guys think it sucks? |
| 05:31.57 | spr | Maquis, don't you think the auto-respond to questions is a bit much |
| 05:31.59 | sjansen | Too complicated. |
| 05:32.02 | Hhhhh | i mean, why do you think C++ sucks? |
| 05:32.12 | goozbach | perl perl perl |
| 05:32.19 | sjansen | All of the disadvantages of C _and_ all of the disadvantages of Java _and_ more complicated. |
| 05:32.21 | Hhhhh | i think C++ has about 5 more keywords than C |
| 05:32.27 | goozbach | hmm it's not conjuring fozz |
| 05:32.31 | sjansen | Not thanks. C, C#, and a scripting language for me. |
| 05:32.32 | Maquis | spr: i think it's rather useful on occasion... |
| 05:32.34 | Hhhhh | i don't agree with that |
| 05:32.36 | goozbach | and I gotta go help him tomorrow |
| 05:32.40 | Hhhhh | what disadvantages of java? |
| 05:32.54 | sjansen | Maquis: And annoying alot more often. |
| 05:33.06 | Hhhhh | the only disadvantages i see in java are features that C++ has and java doesn't |
| 05:33.13 | Maquis | sjansen: hans likes it too... |
| 05:33.15 | Hhhhh | same with c |
| 05:33.16 | sjansen | is brigham being really stupid |
| 05:33.17 | sjansen | ? |
| 05:33.30 | Maquis | (and he's the one that knows how to turn it off... i don't...) |
| 05:33.31 | sjansen | Maquis: That's not exactly a strong argument. |
| 05:33.41 | sjansen | Sure you do: rm -Rf brigham |
| 05:34.08 | Hhhhh | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:34.14 | goozbach | sjansen: leave the bot be |
| 05:34.17 | sjansen | heh |
| 05:34.27 | goozbach | you're just bitter from fooling around with php all day |
| 05:34.27 | sjansen | And I think C is alot easier to debug. |
| 05:34.29 | Hhhhh | there is a lot less room for errors because of more enforced prograsmming |
| 05:34.40 | Hhhhh | heh |
| 05:35.09 | Maquis | Hhhhh: enforced programming causes errors in what ways? |
| 05:35.11 | Hhhhh | well, i think your problem seems to be more with OOP that with C++ |
| 05:35.22 | spr | you can OOP in C |
| 05:35.33 | goozbach | "you know it'll be a long day when you get up, shave and shower, start ot get dressed and your shoes are still warm." --Dean Webber |
| 05:35.37 | sjansen | Bjarne Stostroup (C++'s creator) had a nice quote: "C makes it easy to shoot your foot off. C++ makes it harder, but when you do you blow your whole leg off." |
| 05:35.38 | Hhhhh | i mean, no, enforced programming (stronger typing) in C++ gives less room for error |
| 05:35.51 | Hhhhh | well, that's his opinion |
| 05:35.57 | sjansen | I mean, how long has it taken C++ to come up with standard name mangling so that compilers will work together? |
| 05:36.16 | Hhhhh | you need to understand that those guys are from the time where procedural programming was the paradigm |
| 05:36.24 | Hhhhh | but now it's shifting to oop |
| 05:36.28 | Hhhhh | like CS 142 |
| 05:36.42 | spr | oop isn't necessarlu always the best answer |
| 05:36.43 | Hhhhh | sjansen: what do you mean? |
| 05:36.51 | Hhhhh | i agree spr, not always |
| 05:36.55 | sjansen | spr: You can OOP in C, but it often isn't much fun. |
| 05:36.58 | Hhhhh | but i'd say most of the time |
| 05:37.41 | Hhhhh | think about it, making objects is a better way of modeling real life phenomena than procedural functions (usually) |
| 05:37.46 | goozbach | looks as though I'll have to break down and _call_ fozz |
| 05:37.56 | sjansen | Hhhhh: You're just spouting propoganda. |
| 05:38.03 | flyboy^ | goozbach: What are you going to call him? |
| 05:38.11 | Hhhhh | no, i'm trying to break religiosity |
| 05:38.22 | Hhhhh | religiosity in programming is BAD |
| 05:38.24 | sjansen | I'm my experience, scripting is what I need most. Bash and Perl, baby. |
| 05:38.26 | goozbach | flyboy^: a jabberwocky |
| 05:38.44 | Maquis | Hhhhh: religiosity breaking religiosity doesn't usually work... |
| 05:38.47 | Hhhhh | sjansen, i agree, but it really comes to what is it that you're trying to do |
| 05:38.59 | Hhhhh | i would never do web progrmming in C++ |
| 05:39.05 | sjansen | You're going to have to back your assertion that OOP is inherently better, but it still hasn't been proven. |
| 05:39.16 | Hhhhh | but i would never use perl to write doom 3 |
| 05:39.36 | Hhhhh | ok, i do think OOP is better |
| 05:39.42 | sjansen | Functional programming, with a smattering of OOP, is a very compelling counter example, even for large apps. |
| 05:39.47 | Hhhhh | the learning curve might be steeper at first |
| 05:40.05 | Hhhhh | i've seen that a lot, especially when i was a CS 142 TA (for a year) |
| 05:40.36 | Hhhhh | but after you go over the bump, i've noticed that a programmer can encapsulate code and make it independet from the rest a lot easier in C++9 |
| 05:40.46 | Hhhhh | and that makes a HUGE difference |
| 05:42.17 | Hhhhh | and again, the fact that it is more straight-forward to model real-life entities in a OOP fashion also can diminish development time |
| 05:42.41 | flyboy^ | Hhhhh: How long have you been programming professionally, out of curiousity...? |
| 05:42.48 | Hhhhh | 4 years |
| 05:43.07 | Hhhhh | i've done web programming, cryptography, and other stuff |
| 05:43.09 | goozbach | or is sleep more important tonight? |
| 05:43.14 | Hhhhh | C++, C#, Java |
| 05:43.17 | Maquis | goozbach: why is there a cool blue glow coming out of your fridge? |
| 05:43.25 | Hhhhh | and some VB and VB.NET too |
| 05:43.30 | Hhhhh | and ASP, JSP |
| 05:43.31 | spr | ~lart sjansen |
| 05:43.34 | Hhhhh | ASP.NET |
| 05:43.43 | Hhhhh | i've worked at Novell and AccessData |
| 05:43.51 | goozbach | Maquis: think about it... what comes in a blue bottle |
| 05:43.54 | goozbach | ? |
| 05:43.56 | Hhhhh | plus being a TA for CS 142 for a year |
| 05:43.57 | Maquis | ummm.... |
| 05:44.10 | sjansen | Being a TA for CS 142 doesn't count. |
| 05:44.13 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:44.16 | goozbach | oh I forget, you're in the bubble |
| 05:44.16 | Maquis | :) |
| 05:44.18 | Hhhhh | it does |
| 05:44.20 | Maquis | :) |
| 05:44.28 | Hhhhh | i think that's what made the difference for me regarding OOP |
| 05:44.32 | sjansen | And being an intern only counts as quarter time, even if you work 20 hours/week. |
| 05:44.42 | Hhhhh | what!? |
| 05:45.01 | Maquis | Hhhhh: if the question is "how long have you been programming *professionally*?", i'd say that being a TA doesn't count... |
| 05:45.05 | Hhhhh | being an intern counts for 2x being a sys programmer or admin at BYU |
| 05:45.19 | Hhhhh | i feel insulted... |
| 05:45.31 | Hhhhh | ok, leave TA out if you want |
| 05:45.46 | flyboy^ | What I consider 'professionally programming' - drawing a wage programming 8 hours a day, 5 days a week (at least). That's what a professional programmer does IMO. |
| 05:45.53 | Hhhhh | so that brings me down to 3 years |
| 05:46.03 | Hhhhh | well, i'm in school |
| 05:46.19 | Hhhhh | the i guess i have no professional experience then :( |
| 05:46.29 | flyboy^ | Hhhhh: Okay - that's what I was curious about. |
| 05:46.35 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:46.49 | Hhhhh | i was working in industry, right? |
| 05:46.52 | Hhhhh | yes/no |
| 05:47.02 | Maquis | i've done 8-9 hours a day, 5 days a week for 3 summers... does that count? |
| 05:47.09 | Hhhhh | i've done that too |
| 05:47.10 | flyboy^ | Did you get paid? |
| 05:47.16 | goozbach | Maquis: it was VB |
| 05:47.18 | Hhhhh | yea, lol |
| 05:47.19 | flyboy^ | If you got paid - you were a professional. |
| 05:47.21 | goozbach | so NO! |
| 05:47.22 | Maquis | goozbach: yes... i know... |
| 05:47.22 | Hhhhh | rofl! |
| 05:47.23 | Maquis | :( |
| 05:47.25 | goozbach | :) |
| 05:47.41 | Hhhhh | no, i did JSP and java at Novell for 1 year, 20hr/week |
| 05:47.55 | sjansen | Indeed. VB doesn't count. But your last summer you broke out of that, so you can count a month or two. ;-) |
| 05:48.05 | Maquis | yay! :) |
| 05:48.10 | sjansen | JSP or J2EE? |
| 05:48.12 | Hhhhh | lol@sjansen |
| 05:48.20 | goozbach | Maquis: you know I used to be a big VB nut so take no offence |
| 05:48.24 | Maquis | and this summer i'm really breaking out of it! :) |
| 05:48.33 | Maquis | goozbach: you're more fond of it than i am :) |
| 05:48.34 | Hhhhh | JSP mainly, we didn't use full blown J2EE |
| 05:48.52 | Hhhhh | they were in the process of switching when my intership ended |
| 05:48.54 | goozbach | Maquis: you still didn't tell me what the projects you can choose from are. |
| 05:48.55 | sjansen | Good for you. J2EE is a racket. |
| 05:49.18 | Hhhhh | J2EE is nice, but I think there are very few things in which it is worth the trouble using it |
| 05:49.32 | Hhhhh | that's one kind of OOP i don't like, lol |
| 05:49.45 | Hhhhh | plain JSP or PHP would do |
| 05:49.59 | sjansen | Let me put back those words you missed: J2EE is a nice way to inflate one's salary while reducing productivity |
| 05:50.04 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:50.11 | Hhhhh | in a way, probably, lol |
| 05:50.24 | Hhhhh | *agree* |
| 05:50.27 | sjansen | JSP taglibs are just plain cool |
| 05:50.37 | Hhhhh | yea, they come in habdy |
| 05:50.47 | Hhhhh | but at novell the big pains were with PHP |
| 05:50.52 | sjansen | PHP... well, it's a great templating language |
| 05:51.09 | Hhhhh | and the special care that those developers try to stay away from OOP |
| 05:51.17 | Hhhhh | is what made it so bad for us |
| 05:52.00 | Hhhhh | about templating, i have to say, ASP.NET kicks butt on that |
| 05:52.05 | Maquis | sjansen is quite fond of PHP.... :) |
| 05:52.06 | Hhhhh | sorry for offending anyone |
| 05:52.21 | sjansen | Lack of OOP is hardly the only reason that PHP was a problem. |
| 05:52.30 | Hhhhh | in this case it was sjansen |
| 05:52.37 | Hhhhh | ASP is not bad man |
| 05:52.48 | Hhhhh | is it the fact that it is M$ that makes you hate it? |
| 05:52.56 | Maquis | Hhhhh: no... |
| 05:53.01 | Maquis | it's the fact that i had to program in it |
| 05:53.06 | Maquis | and it's ugly |
| 05:53.13 | Hhhhh | well, it IS ugly |
| 05:53.18 | Hhhhh | but it's not hard |
| 05:53.24 | Maquis | it is painful to code in.... |
| 05:53.26 | Hhhhh | it's actually really fast for development |
| 05:53.28 | Hhhhh | ? |
| 05:53.37 | Hhhhh | i don't like its syntax |
| 05:53.39 | sjansen | So's coldfusion. That doesn't make it good. |
| 05:53.44 | Hhhhh | but i think it's easy for small stuff |
| 05:54.06 | sjansen | which is where it and PHP belong |
| 05:54.28 | Maquis | PHP is beautiful after ASP... |
| 05:55.11 | Hhhhh | i have to agree, i hate ASP syntax but i think it is a lot easdier to understand ASP code that someone else wrote that PHP code written by someone else |
| 05:55.21 | sjansen | Now if there were a language with the enjoyability of PHP, the power of Perl, and the readability of Python --- I'd know I'd died and ended up in heaven. |
| 05:55.42 | Hhhhh | sjansen:you're trying to look for the Philosopher's stone |
| 05:55.54 | flyboy^ | sjansen: I'm quite sure there would be something wrong with it. Or you could find several college kids who think so. |
| 05:55.55 | Hhhhh | that never existed, that doesn't exist and that will never exist |
| 05:56.14 | sjansen | Hhhhh: Found it! |
| 05:56.15 | Hhhhh | no matter how hard M$ or any other programmer tries |
| 05:56.34 | Hhhhh | each language has its strengths and weaknesses |
| 05:56.51 | Hhhhh | and you should use the best tool for each task |
| 05:56.57 | flyboy^ | The best language is the one you create yourself. |
| 05:57.14 | Hhhhh | C/C++ for graphics and large, high performance stuff |
| 05:57.33 | Hhhhh | JSP, PHP, ASP.NET for web stuff(whichever order you prefer) |
| 05:57.44 | Hhhhh | java, perl or lisp for parsing |
| 05:57.55 | Hhhhh | C# for UIs |
| 05:58.18 | flyboy^ | So - hey - any sys admins out there? |
| 05:58.28 | Hhhhh | no matter how hard you try, perl or ruby are NOT for password cracking or graphics |
| 05:58.36 | tensai | flyboy^: sure |
| 05:58.43 | flyboy^ | tensai: What kinda system you admin? |
| 05:58.57 | tensai | why linux of course |
| 05:59.06 | flyboy^ | tensai: Sorry - size, etc. |
| 05:59.21 | tensai | size of what specifically? |
| 05:59.27 | Hhhhh | of the boxes |
| 05:59.28 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:59.36 | flyboy^ | tensai: Number of boxen, what they do most of the time, etc. |
| 05:59.46 | tensai | some 1U, some 2U, and 4U |
| 06:00.21 | tensai | bout 15 boxes. mail, dns, web, ldap, mysql. |
| 06:00.27 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (~xbmodder@adsl-67-117-130-251.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 06:00.32 | flyboy^ | Fun. Nice and diverse. |
| 06:00.33 | goozbach | only 5 of which are running at any one time |
| 06:00.49 | xbmodder_lappy | anyone here to have an engaging conversation with |
| 06:00.52 | flyboy^ | What kinda traffic they get? |
| 06:01.04 | flyboy^ | xbmodder_lappy: engaging conversation about what? |
| 06:01.18 | tensai | my mail servers get about 3 messages per second |
| 06:01.50 | flyboy^ | tensai: That's pretty swift. sendmail,exim,postfix ?? |
| 06:02.02 | goozbach | sleepy time |
| 06:02.13 | flyboy^ | It's only 11 on a Friday. |
| 06:02.16 | tensai | exim. it's a cluster of 7 boxes |
| 06:02.18 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 06:02.46 | flyboy^ | tensai: What implements the cluster? |
| 06:02.56 | tensai | exim and ldap |
| 06:04.24 | tensai | let's see, my busiest dns server gets about 5,000 queries per minute |
| 06:04.36 | goozbach | flyboy^: I'm still tired |
| 06:04.39 | xbmodder_lappy | i don't know |
| 06:04.50 | flyboy^ | tensai: That's nice. At my busiest my DNS servers can hit around 90,000/min. |
| 06:04.54 | goozbach | and I gotta get up early tomorrow |
| 06:05.04 | goozbach | on a saturday! |
| 06:05.04 | flyboy^ | tensai: Fun to run a busy DNS system. |
| 06:05.07 | goozbach | GRRRR |
| 06:05.08 | Hhhhh | ouch |
| 06:05.11 | Maquis | she has to get up early too... |
| 06:05.12 | Hhhhh | man |
| 06:05.21 | flyboy^ | Get up early for why? |
| 06:05.24 | tensai | it keeps to itself mostly. dns causes so little load |
| 06:05.24 | xbmodder_lappy | how about how to convince your neighbors to share your inet connection with you? |
| 06:05.39 | Hhhhh | that's an excellent idea xbmodder |
| 06:05.48 | Hhhhh | i do that, we have comcast |
| 06:05.54 | Hhhhh | i pay $16/mo |
| 06:05.56 | xbmodder_lappy | Hhhhh, speakeasy supports it. |
| 06:05.57 | Hhhhh | and it's legal |
| 06:06.09 | xbmodder_lappy | i know :) |
| 06:06.12 | Hhhhh | just use a wireless network |
| 06:06.16 | xbmodder_lappy | paypal pay |
| 06:06.20 | Hhhhh | and go talk to your neighbors |
| 06:06.41 | xbmodder_lappy | they don't pay much |
| 06:07.20 | xbmodder_lappy | *they don't like me much |
| 06:07.21 | flyboy^ | tensai: How many loaded zones? |
| 06:07.26 | xbmodder_lappy | i must really be tired |
| 06:07.38 | Hhhhh | ok guys, i'm out, i'm gonna try this new UT2k4 mod |
| 06:07.42 | Hhhhh | cya |
| 06:08.09 | tensai | flyboy^: not sure. I don't keep a tally. 400 or so I think. |
| 06:08.19 | flyboy^ | tensai: bind9? |
| 06:08.20 | xbmodder_lappy | would anyone here be pay to be worshipped? |
| 06:08.23 | tensai | yes |
| 06:08.36 | tensai | did the upgrade from bind 8 about 6 months ago |
| 06:08.39 | flyboy^ | xbmodder_lappy: It's called a wife/gf. |
| 06:08.54 | flyboy^ | tensai: I really like 9 - some very nice features. |
| 06:09.18 | xbmodder_lappy | dude, you've been bash.org |
| 06:09.30 | tensai | flyboy^: such as? I can't say I really do much with bind. Turn it on, reload every now and again. |
| 06:09.47 | flyboy^ | tensai: Well, I have a few more zones: number of zones: 58519 |
| 06:10.28 | tensai | I was glad to discover the $GENERATE directive |
| 06:10.38 | flyboy^ | tensai: You don't want to restart the DNS server with that many zones, unless you don't mind it being down for a good 45 minutes. |
| 06:10.53 | tensai | heh. I can imagine. |
| 06:12.55 | flyboy^ | tensai: I'd really like to see some better stats in bind9, but I hear that is coming. |
| 06:13.18 | xbmodder_lappy | 0 |
| 06:13.22 | xbmodder_lappy | /exec -o echo $? |
| 06:13.57 | tensai | yeah. I remember that now. They had those in bind8. Right now I have query logging turned on and I could entries with a perl script. |
| 06:14.04 | tensai | feed that into snmpd |
| 06:14.21 | tensai | I imagine 15x the load would make that system less usable |
| 06:14.31 | flyboy^ | tensai: There is no WAY I can turn querylog on and survive for more than about 10 minutes. :) |
| 06:14.55 | flyboy^ | I'm always whacking the Jr's in the head for leaving it on. |
| 06:16.11 | flyboy^ | tensai: Tell me more about this exim cluster you run, I didn't know exim had any native clustering support. |
| 06:16.15 | xbmodder_lappy | hey! |
| 06:16.18 | flyboy^ | tensai: Sounds kinda interesting. |
| 06:16.48 | tensai | it's not really an explicit cluster. the boxes doesn't really know about each other. it's a cool system though. wish I'd thought of it. |
| 06:17.07 | flyboy^ | tensai: how does it work? |
| 06:17.09 | tensai | we have two boxes that handle strictly outbound. that part's easy |
| 06:18.09 | tensai | three boxes handle incoming. they lookup addresses in ldap. those records have a field which tells them where to route the mailbox |
| 06:18.35 | flyboy^ | Wow - so your ldap stays pretty busy then? |
| 06:18.38 | tensai | mailRoutingAddress: mbox-foo%example.com@mailstore.example.com |
| 06:18.45 | tensai | oh yes |
| 06:18.56 | tensai | but that's what ldap is for |
| 06:19.12 | tensai | the the back end boxes have the big filesystems. each one handles about half the mail. |
| 06:19.32 | tensai | we can even bounce mailboxes back and forth between them without any service disruption |
| 06:19.32 | flyboy^ | I see, then do your users pop it off, or imap or what? |
| 06:20.07 | tensai | yeah. the incoming boxes all have pop and imap proxies (perdition) that do a similar ldap lookup to find the backend pop/imap. |
| 06:20.47 | tensai | those three boxes are all fronted by a foundry serveriron. it does round robin between them. |
| 06:21.09 | tensai | it's so nice for upgrades and testing. just turn off the daemon and the load shifts to the other two. |
| 06:21.21 | tensai | or you can manually disable that server in the foundry |
| 06:21.35 | flyboy^ | I've used a bit in our foundry, but we don't even touch the true power of it. |
| 06:21.43 | tensai | ldap is also proxied between two boxes both of which are replicas of a third master |
| 06:22.07 | tensai | I hear you. I just know enough to man our system. They are some awesome hardware. |
| 06:22.28 | flyboy^ | That is one of the most complex mail setups I've heard of. |
| 06:22.39 | flyboy^ | I'd love to see a write up on it or something. |
| 06:23.29 | flyboy^ | Do you do RR on the two outbound servers for load balancing? |
| 06:23.55 | tensai | yeah, those are on the foundry as well |
| 06:24.01 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 06:24.08 | flyboy^ | Figured, as per your previous statment. |
| 06:24.40 | tensai | the next step is to cluster the back end so that we can lose one and still have a fully functional system |
| 06:24.46 | sjansen | flyboy^: Now there's a good idea. We need to get tensai down to talk to Plug about his setup. ;-) |
| 06:25.08 | flyboy^ | sjansen: If you did, I would have to drive down and hear it. |
| 06:25.10 | tensai | we've got the design in place but haven't implemented it |
| 06:25.15 | tensai | flyboy^: where you at? |
| 06:25.20 | flyboy^ | Logan. |
| 06:25.28 | flyboy^ | I work for these guys: www.westhost.com |
| 06:25.34 | tensai | well, shoot. just come on up here and see it. I'm in Idaho Falls. |
| 06:25.42 | flyboy^ | serious? Sweet. |
| 06:25.52 | sjansen | Hence the ;-) |
| 06:25.58 | tensai | sure, I'll take you on a tour. |
| 06:26.06 | tensai | sjansen: I would love to. it's all logistics |
| 06:26.23 | flyboy^ | I saw that SLLUG tried to get a 'sys admin' night going, but it just seemed to be going in an odd direction. |
| 06:27.00 | flyboy^ | tensai: Who do you work for? |
| 06:27.07 | tensai | ~lart sam fischer |
| 06:27.14 | tensai | onewest.net |
| 06:27.59 | flyboy^ | That's great. |
| 06:29.55 | flyboy^ | tensai: Happen to know anything about melaleuca? |
| 06:30.05 | sjansen | heh |
| 06:30.12 | tensai | as little as possible |
| 06:30.23 | sjansen | Guess this is #utah after all. |
| 06:30.25 | flyboy^ | tensai: We recently hired a guy from there - I have some serious doubts. |
| 06:31.06 | flyboy^ | Just wondering if you new anything about guys who have worked there, etc. |
| 06:31.12 | flyboy^ | *knew |
| 06:31.54 | tensai | I'm new here. just since last May. and I'm an introvert (duh!) so I don't mingle much. |
| 06:32.17 | tensai | there's an IF lug that doesn't do much. I've only been once. |
| 06:33.23 | jsmith | IF has a lug? Wow... |
| 06:33.39 | flyboy^ | so do like 5 guys show up or what? |
| 06:34.03 | tensai | the time I went there were about 10 |
| 06:34.15 | flyboy^ | Pros or kids? |
| 06:34.24 | tensai | the have a mailing list that gets one message a month: the monthly reminder |
| 06:34.26 | jsmith | flyboy^: What, three from Rexburg, one from Rupert, and one from Ammon? |
| 06:34.42 | tensai | I'm the one from Ammon :) |
| 06:34.50 | jsmith | Doh! |
| 06:35.03 | tensai | flyboy^: some of each |
| 06:35.44 | flyboy^ | One thing I like about the sllug group is the first night I went I was in a room of about 20 guys all older than I was. I was about 25 at the time. |
| 06:36.01 | sjansen | Oh yeah, sllug is cool like that. |
| 06:36.24 | sjansen | Actually, Plug's pretty good too. But sllug has 'em beat. |
| 06:36.25 | flyboy^ | It's kinda nice to rub sholders with some of the guys that come - some of 'em are really brilliant. |
| 06:36.58 | flyboy^ | I have yet to hit an fslc meeting here - I hear it's mostly academic - and I don't realy fit well in that type of crowd. |
| 06:37.36 | flyboy^ | jsmith: What did you think of it? |
| 06:37.46 | flyboy^ | Or rather, what did you like about it? |
| 06:38.21 | jsmith | I only went to a couple meetings, but there was a lot of really in depth stuff discussed (especially when Roberto got started talking about PostgreSQL) |
| 06:38.35 | jsmith | This was several years ago... |
| 06:39.08 | tene | where are the sllug meetings held? |
| 06:39.21 | flyboy^ | Usually the University of Utah campus. |
| 06:39.47 | flyboy^ | It's amazing - for how much Linux is at the U how few of those guys show up for a sllug meetiing. |
| 06:40.00 | flyboy^ | You would think half the group would be students or something. |
| 06:40.24 | jsmith | Students are too busy goofing off :-) |
| 06:40.52 | sjansen | LUG meetings are for social geeks. |
| 06:41.06 | flyboy^ | Well, at a university that size you would expect quite a few to show up (or at least I did). |
| 06:41.43 | flyboy^ | So, who is going to the tour tomorrow? |
| 06:41.50 | sjansen | It'd probably do better if it were focused specifically on students. |
| 06:42.05 | sjansen | D'oh! I'd forgotten! |
| 06:42.09 | jsmith | I'll be busy... |
| 06:42.15 | jsmith | sjansen: You gonna take video? |
| 06:42.18 | tensai | tour? |
| 06:42.25 | sjansen | jsmith: No equipment. |
| 06:42.30 | jsmith | Hmmmn... what times is it at again? |
| 06:42.38 | flyboy^ | It's for the CHPC, right? |
| 06:42.46 | jsmith | flyboy^: Yes. |
| 06:42.50 | flyboy^ | The ~300 node Linux cluster. |
| 06:43.39 | flyboy^ | I worked for USI for a while and built ~80 of those nodes - and did a bit of software troubleshooting. |
| 06:44.01 | levi-laptop | Only 300 nodes? |
| 06:44.21 | flyboy^ | I took stock cases, modded the crap out of them to fit their low budget, stuck a big fat fan on the front, dumped in a bunch of AMD stuff - and shipped it out the door. |
| 06:44.37 | flyboy^ | They might be bigger now. ~500 nodes mabye? |
| 06:44.55 | flyboy^ | I think they are number 137 or something in the world top 500. |
| 06:45.18 | flyboy^ | I did this maybe 2.5 years ago - it's been a while. |
| 06:45.19 | jsmith | G'night all! |
| 06:45.23 | flyboy^ | night jsmith |
| 06:45.56 | levi-laptop | That's pretty respectable, but I've worked on some clusters that were in the top 5 before, and seen a couple more top 10 ones. |
| 06:46.13 | flyboy^ | one day they brought in some of those nodes - in one of them they had almost started a fire. |
| 06:46.33 | levi-laptop | It helps that I work for a cluster vendor. :) |
| 06:46.40 | flyboy^ | The fricken fan had stopped or something and had MELTED do the motherboard and CPU. |
| 06:46.52 | tensai | so like one time I had two of my p5 166 machines working on cracking /etc/passwd. that was a pretty awesome cluster. |
| 06:46.54 | levi-laptop | Heh. |
| 06:47.30 | tensai | seems like you get more than 100 nodes and you'd be dropping boxes every other day |
| 06:47.39 | flyboy^ | one of the guys at USI got all the old machines he could and build a 15 node one - in his front room of all places. |
| 06:47.40 | levi-laptop | We've built a couple of 1024 node dual-proc clusters. |
| 06:48.01 | flyboy^ | levi-laptop: Who do you work for? |
| 06:48.08 | levi-laptop | tensai: Sure, if you build them out of random parts. |
| 06:48.18 | levi-laptop | flyboy^: Linux Networx. |
| 06:48.25 | flyboy^ | levi-laptop: Yeah - that's what I thought. |
| 06:48.35 | flyboy^ | levi-laptop: You are sort of in a different class there dude. :0 |
| 06:48.44 | levi-laptop | Not too many cluster vendors in Utah. :) |
| 06:49.23 | flyboy^ | hehe - not to many WORLD FAMOUS ones either. |
| 06:49.51 | levi-laptop | flyboy^: Well, we weren't always, though we did have some cool Alpha-based blade clusters many years ago, on the leading edge of the whole cluster thing. |
| 06:50.28 | flyboy^ | I love the managment stuff you guys have for clusters. |
| 06:50.34 | flyboy^ | The ICE box or something you call it. |
| 06:50.43 | flyboy^ | Yeah, icebox |
| 06:50.54 | tensai | why won't these guys just DIE! |
| 06:51.07 | tensai | how many times do I have to shoot them? |
| 06:51.17 | sjansen | psdoom? |
| 06:51.34 | tensai | splinter cell: pandora tomorrow |
| 06:52.08 | sjansen | Wow, PS2 and IRC. Thought that caused neural damage or something. |
| 06:52.18 | tensai | this is the level that gave me so much trouble last time that I put it away |
| 06:52.22 | tensai | (it's a gamecube) |
| 06:52.37 | tensai | and I'm fixing my ldap tree |
| 06:52.47 | levi-laptop | flyboy^: I wrote a lot of the icebox firmware. |
| 06:53.02 | flyboy^ | levi-laptop: That's sweet dude - good job on that stuff. |
| 06:53.09 | sjansen | You mean I could have bought a system that supported Splinter Cell and Metroid?! |
| 06:53.36 | tensai | and Mario Party |
| 06:53.51 | levi-laptop | flyboy^: Glad you like it. It was my first real world programming project. ;) |
| 06:54.07 | tensai | levi-laptop: so in a 500 node cluster, how often do you lose a member? |
| 06:54.32 | levi-laptop | tensai: Depends on the hardware in the cluster, and on a lot of other things. |
| 06:55.27 | flyboy^ | I would imagine that newer clusters will have far less issues than an older one would. |
| 06:55.32 | levi-laptop | I don't know a lot of those details, as I don't really get too involved with that part of the cluster design. I work on firmware for management devices. |
| 06:55.47 | levi-laptop | flyboy^: Depends, again, on what sort of hardware. |
| 06:55.50 | flyboy^ | tensai: When I was servicing the one up at the U we got back mabye 20 boxen a month. |
| 06:55.55 | levi-laptop | And software. |
| 06:56.10 | flyboy^ | tensai: But that was built very cheaply. |
| 06:57.09 | levi-laptop | We, unfortunately, often build with bleeding edge hardware. It's server-class stuff, but not always as mature as we'd like. |
| 06:57.51 | flyboy^ | Makes me drool: http://www.linuxnetworx.com/evolocity/index.php |
| 06:58.08 | levi-laptop | We spend a lot of time debugging motherboards, high-speed interconnects, filesystems, etc. |
| 06:58.15 | *** join/#utah fishyfire (~fishyfire@65.105.158.130.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 06:58.52 | flyboy^ | levi-laptop: So were are all the secret product shots you can post some place? ;-) |
| 07:00.02 | levi-laptop | flyboy^: Well, the Xilo stuff on that page is pretty new. |
| 07:00.45 | flyboy^ | levi-laptop: Do you mess around wtih LinuxBIOS much? |
| 07:00.58 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:01.20 | levi-laptop | flyboy^: No, but some friends of mine do. |
| 07:01.35 | levi-laptop | sjansen: I said it's new, I didn't say anything about stability. |
| 07:02.05 | sjansen | levi-laptop: Just playin' witcha. |
| 07:02.21 | flyboy^ | I would imagine it's stable enough that when you drop several million $$$ on it - it works. |
| 07:02.26 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:04.26 | flyboy^ | Hey guys, it's been nice chatting with you all. I hope you all have a real nice night. |
| 07:04.29 | flyboy^ | Later. |
| 07:04.39 | levi-laptop | flyboy^: Seeya! |
| 07:05.20 | tensai | say, you guys don't happen to know who provides atm ds-3 into idaho falls do you? |
| 07:05.37 | sjansen | heh |
| 07:05.51 | sjansen | ~eightball |
| 07:05.59 | sjansen | ~8ball |
| 07:06.00 | ibot | ACTION rolls the eight ball and gets: Signs point to yes |
| 07:06.20 | sjansen | tensai: There you go. Yes Co. provides it. |
| 07:10.44 | sjansen | me ... so ... tired ... |
| 07:10.56 | levi-laptop | Time to sleep. G'night! |
| 07:56.44 | fishyfire | anyone else here using iprovo? |
| 08:01.41 | tensai | not I |
| 08:23.13 | fishyfire | the internet keeps going dow |
| 08:23.13 | fishyfire | n |
| 08:23.24 | fishyfire | and then will come back up |
| 08:23.31 | fishyfire | it's gone out like twice now |
| 08:32.19 | tensai | the longer I stay awake, the sleepier I get. I wish there was something I could do about it. |
| 09:07.52 | bonez41 | tensai: ever run postgresql? |
| 09:08.59 | bonez41 | I am trying to run something which uses postgresql and i think postgresql is not running when it should be....this other application, sql-ledger fails to run as it should....in interacting with postgresql |
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| 15:38.30 | sjansen | emcnabb: Any news for us? |
| 15:39.24 | emcnabb | yes, it's official |
| 15:39.31 | sjansen | congrats! |
| 15:39.54 | emcnabb | thanks |
| 15:40.05 | Maquis | :) |
| 15:47.21 | xbmodder | your married? |
| 15:47.27 | xbmodder | you have a kid? |
| 15:47.30 | xbmodder | what? |
| 15:47.49 | xbmodder | your outta college :)? |
| 15:48.01 | sjansen | emcnabb is engaged |
| 15:50.14 | stuporglue | Did everyone see that gmail is now available in plain HTML? Now I can read it with links! |
| 15:53.07 | jce | congrats emcnabb |
| 15:57.33 | *** join/#utah macnewbol1 (~mac@newbold.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 15:58.50 | sjansen | macnewbol1: You're image filter isn't very friendly to Web based aggregators. |
| 15:59.10 | sjansen | macnewbol1: D'oh. Please ignore. |
| 16:00.06 | macnewbol1 | huh? :) |
| 16:00.14 | macnewbol1 | darn tab complete... ;) |
| 16:00.24 | sjansen | I was aiming for Mecworks and hit you instead. |
| 16:01.20 | sjansen | This could be fun! |
| 16:02.14 | Maquis | ah... c'mon!!!! |
| 16:02.58 | Maquis | gotta keep this thing until i can get captain_power to give my lead | back |
| 16:05.05 | sjansen | limping slightly |
| 16:05.52 | Maquis | hmmm.. |
| 16:05.57 | Maquis | nothing more to juggle with.... |
| 16:26.09 | Mecworks | Happy saturday morning everyone! |
| 16:46.19 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@firebat.aros.net) |
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| 17:15.10 | tensai | Mecworks: I have problems with your blog too |
| 17:15.31 | tensai | bonez41: yes, I've run postgresql |
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| 17:53.20 | etahhhh | tensai, nice post on /. |
| 17:53.45 | JoshH | its always great to see utah getting made fun of, thanks to our idiotic legislature. |
| 17:53.56 | tensai | I just happened to load it as the story came up and I was already aware of the bill |
| 17:54.53 | JoshH | unfortunately, just like every time utah gets mentioned in the news for stuff liket his, people wont read the article, assume that its just mormons running a theocracy here, and our states reputation gets even lamer. |
| 17:55.17 | etahhhh | yeah, sadly many of the leaders aren't tech saavy or even tech friendly |
| 17:55.50 | JoshH | and honestly, many of our legislators would probably love to actually make "offensive material" on the net illegal, if they could. |
| 17:56.14 | JoshH | there is no reason to require ISP's to provide optional filtering, when most do it already anyway. plus there are plenty of free market solutions for filtering. |
| 17:56.22 | tensai | I really think it'll be a moot point within a few years. I know our customers are clammoring for content filtering. We're trying our hardest to provide it. |
| 17:56.42 | JoshH | its just another example of utah politicials pretending to support a free market, except when it comes to morals. |
| 17:57.08 | etahhhh | exact, anybody who wants that service can find it without mandating that everybody has to provide it |
| 17:57.14 | JoshH | weve got a filter, but it pretty much sucks. hardly anyone uses it though. |
| 17:58.01 | tensai | we're going to be integrating it into radius so that if the parents want it, the kids don't have a choice |
| 17:58.40 | JoshH | every year, the utah legislative session is an absolute joke. important things like education get ignored or made even worse, and all the energy is spent making sure gays cant marry (even though there are 3 laws against it already) or creating a porn czar |
| 17:59.44 | etahhhh | wow, two utah articles in a row...more SCO |
| 18:00.05 | etahhhh | I wonder if we get mentioned more per capita than any other state |
| 18:00.48 | tensai | lately Pennsylvania's been mentioned a lot for their anti municipal wifi law |
| 18:01.13 | tensai | ah, but per capita maybe |
| 18:02.06 | etahhhh | some of the anti-utah comments serioulsy make me laugh |
| 18:04.44 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@c-67-161-219-228.client.comcast.net) |
| 18:05.33 | sjansen | *sigh* I knew that my mother switching from Mac OS 8 to Windows would be a sad and painful experience. |
| 18:05.46 | JoshH | ya, they are funny, but they would be funnier if i wasnt from utah. the fanatics in this state make us all look bad. |
| 18:05.53 | tensai | sjansen: sad for her, painful for you? |
| 18:06.12 | sjansen | I've trained her to do frequent updates and virus checks. I hid IE and installed Firefox and Thunderbird. |
| 18:06.49 | JoshH | if she is a simple user like that, why not switch her to suse? |
| 18:07.00 | etahhhh | why did you go with... |
| 18:07.02 | sjansen | She finally decided to get broadband and managed to install it on her own. Yesterday. Today she found a virus and her system is mysteriously broken. |
| 18:08.15 | sjansen | etahhhh: Windows? She chose it. Mostly because the church doesn't/barely supports geneology work on anything else. |
| 18:09.11 | etahhhh | yeah, JoshH beat me to it |
| 18:09.26 | etahhhh | but that is a solid reason |
| 18:10.04 | etahhhh | hopefully the next gen family history stuff will be cross-platform |
| 18:10.05 | sjansen | Now I'm starting to wonder if I'd be able to get her onto Linux and use Wine for the few Windows only things. Wine w/o a network connection. |
| 18:10.25 | tensai | and how much geneology does she get done while her computer is hosed with viruses? |
| 18:10.53 | sjansen | Oh yes, I'm suspecting that convincing her to switch to Linux just got alot easier. |
| 18:11.31 | etahhhh | yeah, we should try running some stuff under Wine and see how well it works |
| 18:11.45 | tensai | My dad is convinced, he just can't work without Word. If he lived closer I'd probably set him up with Crossover or Xandros. |
| 18:11.51 | sjansen | Last I heard, getting PAF working was a pain. |
| 18:12.03 | tensai | last I tried it was a pain |
| 18:12.32 | etahhhh | was anybody surprised/disappointed when the new MLS computers came with winXP? |
| 18:12.33 | JoshH | is there special geneology software the church has, or do they just use some database with a web frontend or what? |
| 18:12.46 | etahhhh | I imagine the church will one day put out its own distro |
| 18:12.48 | sjansen | That's the other problem when I'm going to be able to do it. It'd basically be drive out, fix problem, turn around and drive back next day. |
| 18:13.00 | etahhhh | so it could have total control of all the machines on its network |
| 18:13.00 | tensai | JoshH: they have their own, Personal Ancestral File |
| 18:13.31 | JoshH | does it run in wine? |
| 18:13.44 | sjansen | JoshH: You're a few beat behind. |
| 18:13.54 | tensai | the next version is supposed to be tied into the web so you can easily share info with others |
| 18:14.10 | tensai | supposed to be cross platform iirc. and possibly open source |
| 18:15.39 | sjansen | http://blogs.gurulabs.com/evan/ |
| 18:16.56 | etahhhh | the new MLS portal thingy seems to be Java based |
| 18:17.43 | emcnabb | sjansen is next... |
| 18:17.57 | sjansen | emcnabb: I'm not marrying you! |
| 18:18.31 | tensai | etahhhh: it is. it can even run under Linux with a little persuasion |
| 18:18.52 | emcnabb | haha |
| 18:19.00 | emcnabb | no, you're the next one to get engaged |
| 18:19.06 | emcnabb | I'm calling it now |
| 18:21.11 | a_sexy_dame | oh, sjansen... |
| 18:21.11 | emcnabb | I got my federal tax refund |
| 18:21.16 | emcnabb | rofl |
| 18:21.18 | a_sexy_dame | I've come to tempt you |
| 18:21.19 | sjansen | tensai: forget it |
| 18:21.20 | etahhhh | tensai: nice, I haven't had time to play with it at all; do you know the policy for updating software (openoffice) on those machines? |
| 18:22.46 | tensai | etahhhh: I don't know for sure. I only know what I occasionally hear |
| 18:24.49 | etahhhh | emcnabb: congrats, now is when things get really crazy |
| 18:25.00 | emcnabb | yeah, that's what I hear |
| 18:25.26 | etahhhh | is the 'morning after' sort of a sinking feeling or a euphoric daze? |
| 18:27.39 | etahhhh | I remember it felt like I had dislodged an avalanche |
| 18:27.45 | emcnabb | haha |
| 18:27.55 | emcnabb | well, I'm feeling pretty normal |
| 18:28.17 | etahhhh | exhilarating and scary at the same time |
| 18:28.22 | sjansen | emcnabb: What you're feeling normal? That's bad. Very bad. Something's wrong. |
| 18:28.28 | emcnabb | we've been talking about it for a while |
| 18:28.47 | emcnabb | we've know we were going to get married for a while, so we've talked about it quite a bit |
| 18:29.33 | tensai | just don't let her talk you out of wearing a purple tux. I made that mistake and I've always regretted it. |
| 18:29.58 | etahhhh | purple, sweet |
| 18:29.58 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 18:30.45 | tensai | it would have been so awesome |
| 18:31.28 | spr | garage sale in provo of computer stuff! 52 E 2050 N! Now! Come! Buy Stuff! |
| 18:32.08 | etahhhh | yeah, they always want a fairy-tale wedding, why can't we do retro-chic |
| 18:32.11 | etahhhh | pimp-daddy cool |
| 18:32.11 | tensai | spr: any quad proc alpha servers? |
| 18:32.38 | spr | i doubt it, I'm actually just passing the message along |
| 18:33.04 | sjansen | tensai: I could pick up four cans of alphabet soup and put them in a box for you. |
| 18:33.21 | emcnabb | sorry about the following crap flood;you may know someone who's interested: |
| 18:33.25 | emcnabb | ============================== |
| 18:33.25 | emcnabb | BOOKKEEPING/OFFICE ASST |
| 18:33.25 | emcnabb | Guru Labs, an established |
| 18:33.25 | emcnabb | high-tech small business has |
| 18:33.25 | emcnabb | two openings for |
| 18:33.26 | emcnabb | well-organized, self-motivated |
| 18:33.28 | emcnabb | office help. Varied duties |
| 18:33.30 | emcnabb | include: AR/AP, arranging |
| 18:33.32 | emcnabb | travel, phones, printing and |
| 18:33.36 | emcnabb | binding, and keeping things |
| 18:33.38 | emcnabb | running smoothly. Two |
| 18:33.40 | emcnabb | part-time positions open |
| 18:33.42 | emcnabb | morning & afternoon. Bountiful |
| 18:33.44 | emcnabb | location. Fax or email resume: |
| 18:33.46 | emcnabb | 801-298-1149 jobs@gurulabs.com |
| 18:33.48 | emcnabb | =============================== |
| 18:35.28 | tensai | sjansen: we had one in the office. actually brandon took it home. boy was it heavy. |
| 18:36.33 | tensai | reminded me of an e10k only smaller and less purple |
| 18:46.03 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@firebat.aros.net) |
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| 18:58.57 | jce | So I stopped into a Mac stor last night and saw the 30" lcd. I don't covet many things... |
| 18:59.33 | jce | it's pretty amazing... too bad it's $3000 |
| 19:33.58 | emcnabb | jce, are you the same Joey who worked in the NCL at BYU? |
| 19:56.18 | *** join/#utah spr_ (~scott@c-24-2-72-10.client.comcast.net) |
| 19:56.51 | spr_ | Computer parts garage sale: Provo 52 E 2050 N Till 6pm |
| 19:58.22 | spr_ | SCSI drives, pci scsi controller card, isa sound cards, video cards (pci) usb pci car, socket A370 mb, AMD K6 processor(s), b wireless router, power supplies, huge printers, floppy drives, cdroms, and other stuff |
| 19:58.39 | spr_ | ~4GB hard drives |
| 20:00.02 | Mecworks_ | hm... jce on #utah ... the world is changing. 8^) |
| 20:27.20 | tewk | emcnabb: same jce, its evan right? |
| 20:28.07 | *** join/#utah scott (scott@crackaddict.com) |
| 20:29.12 | scott | anyone know, on google adsense, do you just make money when someone actually buys something? |
| 20:31.08 | emcnabb | tewk, yup |
| 20:31.35 | emcnabb | how's it going Kevin? |
| 20:32.11 | emcnabb | I haven't seen you guys for a long time |
| 20:32.22 | emcnabb | (of course we've all been gone for a long time) |
| 20:34.24 | tewk | Not bad, what are you up to these days. |
| 20:34.32 | tewk | I'm still working for Canyonbridge |
| 20:35.14 | tewk | any sugestions for an ircproxy? |
| 20:36.45 | emcnabb | just working and enjoying life |
| 20:38.01 | emcnabb | Michael Torrie is on #utah quite a bit |
| 20:38.09 | emcnabb | haven't seen him here the last few days |
| 20:40.04 | Newsome | sweet, the LKML was approved for a loan!!! |
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| 20:49.33 | *** part/#utah torriem (~torriem@c-67-177-53-78.client.comcast.net) |
| 21:11.34 | tensai | wish I could be approved for a loan. All I get is millions of dollars transferred into my bank account. |
| 21:11.54 | tensai | I have a lot of foreign relatives, you know |
| 21:16.39 | Maquis | ok... |
| 21:16.55 | Maquis | change from what spr said: the computer parts sale will actually end at 5pm... |
| 21:24.42 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 21:45.27 | emcnabb | online check-in is nice |
| 21:45.51 | emcnabb | now I'm sitting in an exit row instead of at the back of the plane near the crapper |
| 21:54.21 | *** part/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 21:57.40 | Mecworks | http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=141479&cid=11853760 |
| 21:59.30 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 22:00.43 | goozbach | emcnabb: weren't you gonna be flying first class? |
| 22:01.06 | emcnabb | next week I think |
| 22:01.14 | emcnabb | Mecworks, interesting |
| 22:01.27 | emcnabb | (I'm on the upgrade list) |
| 22:01.38 | Mecworks | yup. that's what I thought. |
| 22:02.12 | Mecworks | er...rather wrote... |
| 22:03.20 | findlay | anybody known why my SIP->POTS provider refusing my connections? |
| 22:31.41 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (~von@c-67-177-11-46.client.comcast.net) |
| 22:33.48 | findlay | ~lart VoIP providers that make changes without warning which break clients |
| 22:35.20 | vontrapp | findlay: that wouldn't be broadvoice, would it? |
| 22:35.28 | findlay | yes it would |
| 22:36.07 | vontrapp | is there a fix? |
| 22:36.12 | findlay | http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2005-March/092953.html |
| 22:39.04 | vontrapp | except i don't use asterisk |
| 22:39.40 | findlay | me neither |
| 22:41.03 | findlay | short of grudgingly setting up asterisk just to be able to use the service |
| 22:41.22 | vontrapp | same here |
| 22:42.28 | findlay | hopefully broadvoice will answer the email I sent this time |
| 22:46.34 | Maquis | so, instead, she might just make cookies |
| 22:46.37 | Maquis | :) |
| 22:48.05 | findlay | Maquis: email some over to me |
| 22:48.31 | findlay | vontrapp: let me know if you get it figured out |
| 22:55.32 | *** join/#utah mheath (~Michael@c-67-161-213-34.client.comcast.net) |
| 22:57.21 | mheath | Hey, anyone happen to be around? |
| 22:58.06 | goozbach | cookies??? |
| 22:58.09 | goozbach | hmmm |
| 22:58.49 | tensai | mheath: does that mean you graduated? |
| 22:58.57 | mheath | Hey, I just popped in to see if anyone was interested in purchasing a computer from me. Prom's coming up in a few weeks, I'm trying to get some extra money. |
| 22:59.09 | mheath | tensai, nope, just in here for a few moments :) |
| 22:59.45 | goozbach | mheath: specs? |
| 22:59.57 | goozbach | (like I need another computer) |
| 23:00.12 | goozbach | well it'd make an even 30... |
| 23:00.14 | goozbach | hmmmm |
| 23:00.18 | mheath | goozbach, processor and mainboard are older but usable (Pentium II 450) but I'm throwing in A LOT of new stuff and selling it for a low price |
| 23:01.13 | mheath | Pentium II 450 Mhz, 256 MB RAM, Rage 128 Pro Ultra Graphics, 3COM Vortex NIC, Creative Soundblaster PCI 128, Pretty new CD-RW Drive (52x), DVD-ROM, 60 GB HDD... |
| 23:01.23 | mheath | New wireless keyboard + mouse, laser printer... |
| 23:01.49 | vontrapp | findlay: i can accept incoming calls, but the remote side can't hear me |
| 23:02.02 | mheath | Asking $50, which I think is decent considering that the Keyboard+Mouse, CD-RW, DVD-rOM, and Hard drive are all very new and worth more than that alone |
| 23:02.11 | vontrapp | i just had a whole conversation with hans, him talking over the phone and me responding on jabber |
| 23:02.15 | vontrapp | it was fun |
| 23:02.54 | mheath | Anyone happen to be interested? |
| 23:03.09 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 23:03.12 | mheath | Laser Printer's decent (a bit old, but works nicely) and has a toner cartridge in it. |
| 23:10.58 | goozbach | ok _that's_ where I draw the line!!!! |
| 23:11.12 | goozbach | I just got another chain email. |
| 23:11.27 | goozbach | this one is distributed as a .pdf |
| 23:11.37 | vontrapp | goozbach: was it a cookie chain? |
| 23:11.59 | goozbach | some karma mantra or some foo like that |
| 23:13.22 | findlay | vontrapp: yeah it seems to be a problem with outbound only |
| 23:14.04 | emcnabb | goozbach, you sure do get a lot of chain letters |
| 23:14.04 | vontrapp | which is ironic considering it an INVITE auth that broke it |
| 23:14.21 | vontrapp | goozbach: what kind of friends do you havE? |
| 23:14.30 | findlay | does kphone implement the complete SIP protocol? |
| 23:14.37 | Maquis | goozbach: send it to stuart! |
| 23:15.04 | findlay | if so, would it be so difficult to adapt it to jump throught the hoops |
| 23:15.09 | vontrapp | and to the buscaluz.org webmaster, just for kicks |
| 23:15.32 | goozbach | vontrapp: it's not my friends it's my family |
| 23:15.50 | findlay | I've got to go |
| 23:15.52 | goozbach | I've tried ignoring them but they keep trying different tactis |
| 23:15.58 | goozbach | er tactics |
| 23:16.02 | findlay | vontrapp: let me know if you get anything figured out |
| 23:16.08 | vontrapp | goozbach: yeah, i have some family like that, too |
| 23:16.25 | vontrapp | findlay: ok, but i'm not going to mess with it too much today |
| 23:16.37 | mheath | *sigh* Wish I could get an account on Ebay... |
| 23:16.55 | goozbach | any good links that discuss the wrongness of chain emails? |
| 23:17.12 | goozbach | kinda like justf'inggoogleit.com? |
| 23:17.23 | mheath | Wow. I haven't got a chain e-mail in years |
| 23:17.34 | mheath | Back in my AOL days |
| 23:20.49 | mheath | Wish I could list this on Ebay. My dad refuses to let me use his account. |
| 23:24.34 | mheath | I take it no ones interested in that box + peripherals + printer? |
| 23:25.03 | vontrapp | mheath: no monitor? |
| 23:25.23 | bucky | i missed it.. what was it mheath ? |
| 23:25.36 | mheath | vontrapp, I can throw in a 17 inch, though its not the best |
| 23:25.49 | mheath | (Works fine, just a bit banged up, not visually attractive) |
| 23:25.55 | vontrapp | well, i'm decidedly poor at the time |
| 23:25.59 | mheath | bucky, I'll PM (Don't want to repeated it) |
| 23:26.02 | mheath | *repeat |
| 23:26.10 | bucky | ok |
| 23:26.29 | vontrapp | and my greatest computer need at the time is hard drive space, and perhaps a wireless bridge |
| 23:26.43 | vontrapp | wireless keyboard and mouse would be nice though |
| 23:26.50 | vontrapp | and a joystick |
| 23:27.01 | mheath | I have a joystick |
| 23:27.15 | mheath | And a motion detecting gamepad (need to find that, its around here somewhere..) |
| 23:27.22 | mheath | (Sorry, I forgot to mention those things earlier) |
| 23:27.30 | vontrapp | ooh, one of those inertial types? |
| 23:27.38 | vontrapp | what the.... my gkrellm just died |
| 23:27.44 | vontrapp | disappeared out of the blue |
| 23:28.04 | vontrapp | anyway, like i said, i'm unfortunately quite poor at the time |
| 23:28.20 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 23:28.26 | vontrapp | what with dears and windshields and alternators and dentists as of late |
| 23:28.27 | mheath | Yeah, I understand. Me too. Selling this is an effort to get some money for Prom. |
| 23:28.33 | vontrapp | *deers |
| 23:29.11 | mheath | If anyones interested, I've also got a couple of old Pentium I 166 boxes that I'll sell for $10 (Though I think that I'm far enough away from most of you that it's hardly worth the gas money) |
| 23:30.23 | bucky | a pentium II 450 cost 1099 brand new just for the processor when it came out |
| 23:38.33 | fishyfire | is there a simple way to reset a computer password? |
| 23:38.55 | tensai | password to what? |
| 23:39.08 | fishyfire | password to log into the computer |
| 23:39.17 | fishyfire | my little sister forgot her password |
| 23:39.21 | fishyfire | the logon password |
| 23:39.25 | tensai | log in as root, passwd <user> |
| 23:40.18 | fishyfire | that makes sense... thanks |
| 23:40.35 | mheath | Or, just remove it from the password shadow file and let her set it |
| 23:41.05 | fishyfire | where is the password stored? |
| 23:41.23 | tensai | /etc/shadow |
| 23:41.25 | mheath | On a typical Linux system, /etc/shadow |
| 23:41.53 | tensai | hey, how did I type that? |
| 23:42.37 | mheath | tensai, some IRC clients don't interpret things that begin with a / as a command if theres another / later on |
| 23:42.54 | tensai | I tried /foo/bar but it didn't work |
| 23:42.59 | tensai | /etc/passwd |
| 23:43.11 | tensai | hmm. doesn't make sense. |
| 23:43.13 | tensai | /usr/bin |
| 23:43.23 | tensai | /usr/foobar |
| 23:43.48 | tensai | ok, I'll stop. doesn't make sense though |
| 23:47.03 | Maquis | [sekhmet erins] svn checkout http://anubis:8080/svn/cs345 ./cs345A 1 |
| 23:47.03 | Maquis | svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svn/cs345' |
| 23:47.03 | Maquis | svn: |
| 23:47.03 | Maquis | Could not open the requested SVN filesystem |
| 23:47.22 | Maquis | but if i'm on anubis, i can check it out without problems |
| 23:47.56 | tensai | you have mod_svn loaded? |
| 23:48.26 | Maquis | it's loading it... |
| 23:48.44 | Maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:48.51 | Maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:48.56 | Maquis | right? |
| 23:49.06 | Maquis | it worked with this exact setup before i reinstalled svn... |
| 23:49.32 | fishyfire | ok so as a newbie..... i opened up my shadow file to look at it and can you just change all the symbols and letters after the username to what you want it to be |
| 23:50.12 | tensai | not exactly. those are encrypted. if you know the encrypted form, you can insert that but you can't put a plaintext password in /etc/shadow |
| 23:50.13 | Maquis | fishyfire: well, the symbols and letters should be an encrypted version of the password, so i'd say probably not |
| 23:51.14 | fishyfire | they looked encrypted... |
| 23:51.56 | Maquis | did passwd <username> (as root) not solve the problem? |
| 23:52.26 | mheath | fishyfire, just use passwd |
| 23:52.46 | mheath | Sorry, I shouldn't have confused you with the "Or just remove the password from /etc/shadow and have her set it" comment |
| 23:52.50 | fishyfire | i couldn't remember how to get to root login instead of the user login from the kde that started up |
| 23:53.03 | mheath | Then su |
| 23:53.03 | Maquis | fishyfire: su - |
| 23:53.37 | Maquis | you wouldn't be able to change /etc/passwd (shouldn't even be able to view it) without being root, though... |
| 23:53.41 | Maquis | right? |
| 23:54.11 | Maquis | ooh... |
| 23:54.14 | Maquis | different error: |
| 23:54.24 | Maquis | [sekhmet erins] svn checkout http://anubis:8080/svn/cs345 ./cs345A |
| 23:54.24 | Maquis | svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svn/cs345' |
| 23:54.24 | Maquis | svn: PROPFIND of '/svn/cs345': 500 Internal Server Error (http://anubis:8080) |
| 23:54.48 | fishyfire | the login screen that comes up doesn't give the option to change users... |
| 23:55.17 | Maquis | fishyfire: technically, you shouldn't be logging into kde as root... |
| 23:55.18 | mheath | Well, I'm taking off. If anyones interested in that computer, e-mail me at Mike.Thomas.Heath@gmail.com |
| 23:55.44 | fishyfire | i know it isn't recommended... but you can still do it... right? |
| 23:55.52 | fishyfire | i think i have done it before |
| 23:56.38 | Maquis | why would you need to? |
| 23:56.55 | tensai | on my machine root X login is disabled. that's not uncommon. |
| 23:57.06 | fishyfire | to change the password my sister forgot.... |
| 23:57.18 | Maquis | can you log in as someone else? |
| 23:57.23 | fishyfire | i don't think so |
| 23:57.26 | Maquis | ok... |
| 23:57.40 | Maquis | then, use ctrl-alt-f2 to get to a login prompt |
| 23:57.41 | fishyfire | she is the only user of the computer |
| 23:57.50 | Maquis | and then log in as root there... |
| 23:57.59 | Maquis | and run passwd <username> |
| 23:58.47 | Maquis | ~lart subversion |
| 23:58.53 | fishyfire | okay... didn't know about passwd |
| 23:59.26 | Maquis | fishyfire: that was what we were trying to say to do instead of using the /etc/shadow file... |
| 23:59.32 | fishyfire | got as far as logged in as root but it was complaining about running multiple xservers |
| 23:59.35 | Maquis | /etc/shadow is not something you want to edit by hand |
| 23:59.41 | fishyfire | sorry i got confused |
| 23:59.47 | Maquis | understandable |
| 23:59.55 | fishyfire | .... still a newbie.... |