| 00:03.47 | mrpull | http://www.phonemag.com/index.php/weblog/read_more/03032005_motorola_pebl_v6_gallery/ |
| 00:03.52 | mrpull | that wasn't for #utah |
| 00:03.55 | mrpull | whoops |
| 00:06.17 | *** join/#utah Revert (~Revert@122.228.dial-up.xter.net) |
| 00:29.27 | *** part/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 00:36.30 | sjansen | And so we meet again, for the first time, for the last time. |
| 00:38.32 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 00:38.57 | sjansen | And thus we see that evil will always triumph over good, because good is stupid. |
| 00:40.02 | spr | s/stupid/dumb/ |
| 00:40.16 | sjansen | oops |
| 00:44.58 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:44.59 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:45.03 | *** part/#utah joshc (~josh@65.37.125.194) |
| 00:53.18 | bonez41 | anyone know how to backup cell phone contact data? I hate to think all the stuff I enter into mine would be lost, the effort a waste...suggestions? |
| 00:56.15 | sjansen | ~hug mozilla |
| 00:56.18 | ibot | ACTION hugs mozilla |
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| 01:11.24 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 01:11.43 | sjansen | Hi, Maquis. |
| 01:11.55 | Maquis | hi |
| 01:12.00 | findlay | ~lart Maquis |
| 01:12.00 | Maquis | i'm back |
| 01:12.39 | findlay | ~Maquis |
| 01:12.40 | ibot | Viva la France! |
| 01:13.07 | findlay | ~wiki Sibelius |
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| 02:01.45 | stuporglue | Is there an easy way to delet all the files that _aren't_ of a certain type? I want to get rid of everything but pngs in a folder and it's sub folders |
| 02:12.40 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 02:12.54 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (~Hhhhh@c-67-161-218-202.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:13.05 | Hhhhh | hullo |
| 02:13.54 | hans | stuporglue: maybe with the help of find and grep -v |
| 02:14.01 | hans | (and xargs) |
| 02:14.31 | findlay | stuporglue: ls -L *.png | xargs rm |
| 02:14.42 | findlay | stuporglue: ls -I *.png | xargs rm |
| 02:14.44 | findlay | sorry |
| 02:14.56 | findlay | stands for ignore |
| 02:17.14 | findlay | OK, I don't expect anyone to be able to answer, but if I have a hardware problem and it doesn't show up as memory faults in memtest86+, then what is is? |
| 02:17.43 | tensai | what are the symptoms? |
| 02:18.03 | findlay | every time I build something now, gcc segfaults in random places |
| 02:18.12 | findlay | and it's getting *really* annoying |
| 02:18.22 | findlay | but it's not just gcc |
| 02:18.28 | hans | sound like your cpu overheating. |
| 02:18.49 | findlay | other things have gotten locked up and I have to hard reboot |
| 02:19.11 | findlay | what's a normal operating temperature for an AMD CPU? |
| 02:19.32 | tensai | 40C? |
| 02:19.58 | findlay | I have three temperatures reported by I^2C |
| 02:20.18 | findlay | M/B Temp: +38 C (low = +15 C, high = +40 C) sensor = thermistor |
| 02:20.18 | findlay | CPU Temp: +64 C (low = +15 C, high = +45 C) sensor = thermistor |
| 02:20.18 | findlay | Temp3: +119 C (low = +15 C, high = +45 C) sensor = diode |
| 02:21.21 | findlay | hans: do you mean, thermodynamical forces (entropy) actually disrupting the digital processes of the CPU? |
| 02:21.53 | findlay | not necessarily permanent heat damage to it? |
| 02:23.00 | findlay | bye |
| 02:43.23 | stuporglue | findlay: Thanks about the rm tip |
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| 04:16.36 | vontrapp | spr: who makes your laptop? |
| 04:16.42 | vontrapp | and how heavy is it? |
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| 04:25.03 | Maquis | spr: how's the meeting? |
| 04:26.48 | LeviHome | What meeting is going on? |
| 04:27.00 | Maquis | uug... |
| 04:27.42 | LeviHome | And you're not there? |
| 04:27.47 | Maquis | no... |
| 04:27.57 | LeviHome | Aww. |
| 04:28.13 | Maquis | i haven't gotten much sleep the past few nights (ranging around 3-4 hours), and i've got some homework due tomorrow |
| 04:28.29 | Maquis | so, i'm trying to catch up on homework and get some sleep tonight |
| 04:35.03 | LeviHome | Who needs sleep? ;) |
| 04:35.41 | Maquis | ummm... |
| 04:35.43 | Maquis | well... |
| 04:36.01 | Maquis | you can stay up and do my civ reading, and i'll take your sleep... |
| 04:36.02 | Maquis | how's that? |
| 04:36.50 | LeviHome | Well, I need sleep. I'm an old married working man. You're a young college student. ;) |
| 04:36.56 | Maquis | haha |
| 04:38.45 | LeviHome | It's not really that we need it more, we're just more accustomed to getting it, so our bodies complain more loudly when they don't. ;) |
| 04:38.57 | Maquis | ah... |
| 04:39.09 | LeviHome | That's my theory, at least. |
| 04:39.10 | Maquis | well, my body was complaining a bit yesterday and today |
| 04:39.10 | Maquis | :) |
| 04:40.25 | Maquis | what brands do people recommend for laptops? |
| 04:40.26 | LeviHome | Obviously you need to make your schedule more erratic. |
| 04:40.32 | Maquis | haha |
| 04:40.38 | LeviHome | Not Sony. |
| 04:40.44 | Maquis | no? why? |
| 04:40.46 | LeviHome | Apple laptops are good. :) |
| 04:41.02 | LeviHome | Sonys are expensive and flaky. |
| 04:41.03 | Maquis | yes... i know apple is good, i'm curious beyond apple what's good |
| 04:41.20 | Maquis | i haven't gotten along very well with toshiba's tech support... |
| 04:41.43 | LeviHome | I wasn't a big fan of the toshibas I've used, but they were bottom-end ones. |
| 04:42.01 | Maquis | i think the computers are good, but the support stinks |
| 04:42.11 | Maquis | generally, i've gotten the response "install windows" |
| 04:42.29 | LeviHome | Most laptop companies will probably give you that. |
| 04:42.50 | Maquis | i've heard good things about ibm, but they seem a bit pricey... |
| 04:43.14 | LeviHome | Oh, yeah, Thinkpads are nice. |
| 04:45.21 | Maquis | what's the "best" processor for a laptop? |
| 04:45.32 | LeviHome | I don't really know. |
| 04:45.39 | LeviHome | I'm not really a laptop user. |
| 04:45.43 | Maquis | hmmmm |
| 04:45.44 | hans | findlay: my old k6 used to overheat and sig11. stopped me from accomplishing linux from scratch |
| 04:46.08 | LeviHome | My laptop is an ancient Transmeta-powered Sony. |
| 04:46.14 | hans | turns out the guy before me left some garage-sale type price sticker on it, under the heat sink. |
| 04:46.32 | LeviHome | Iiiiiiiidiot. |
| 04:46.45 | hans | on a modern one it probably would have fried it, but there was no permanent damage in my case, just the occasional sig11 |
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| 04:51.40 | LeviHome | Ah, haven't been to this place in a while. I thought about getting some custom-tailored shirts from here: http://www.baronboutique.com/mensshirts.htm |
| 04:51.56 | LeviHome | They have nice suits, too. |
| 04:52.03 | LeviHome | And some movie replica stuff. |
| 05:01.53 | hans | anyone know of a good free windows antivirus thing? |
| 05:03.08 | Maquis | is there a reasonably good company where i can get a nice laptop *without* having to pay for windoze? |
| 05:03.24 | hans | apple |
| 05:03.36 | Maquis | i've already been looking at apple |
| 05:03.55 | Maquis | but they don't have a whole lot of options... just the ibook and the powerbook |
| 05:04.31 | Maquis | btw, i don't think the thinkpads look all that nice... other brands have more aesthetics... |
| 05:05.56 | hans | i would agree there |
| 05:06.12 | hans | the black theme is fine, it's the stupid buttons above the trackpad. |
| 05:08.30 | hans | and the ugly edges. |
| 05:08.53 | hans | like darth vader got run over with a steamroller. |
| 05:09.11 | Maquis | i don't see why they don't make it prettier... they have nice quality, but that's not going to help with certain groups of people |
| 05:09.22 | Maquis | a lot of people care a lot about having a nice-looking computer... |
| 05:09.30 | Maquis | apple is a great example of that |
| 05:10.10 | Maquis | the thing is, i don't think i could get used to only having 1 button on my trackpad... |
| 05:10.19 | Maquis | and they just don't have options.. |
| 05:11.24 | Maquis | anyway, i'm just oogling for now... |
| 05:11.49 | Maquis | considering possibly getting something near the end of the summer... |
| 05:13.51 | hans | a lot of business folk have warped sense of style. to them the thinkpads look "businesslike" |
| 05:13.59 | Maquis | meh |
| 05:14.05 | tensai | hans: avg has a free-for-noncommercial antivirus |
| 05:14.06 | hans | even if they think it's ugly, they think it looks like a business thing ought to look. |
| 05:14.11 | tensai | hans: clam works on winders too |
| 05:14.13 | Maquis | the sonys are the ones that look nice... |
| 05:14.31 | tensai | Maquis: I've got a sony and I'd agree with levi. over-rated, like most sony stuff. |
| 05:14.38 | tensai | my dell always worked well |
| 05:14.40 | Maquis | they're pretty though... |
| 05:14.47 | hans | and rhymed too |
| 05:18.51 | hans | so which version of clam for windows? |
| 05:20.40 | hans | clamwin has the winning website, so i'll go with that one. |
| 05:21.51 | tensai | I've never used clam on windows, just heard that it works |
| 05:22.00 | tensai | works great on linux though |
| 05:22.28 | hans | yeah. the screenshots look good. I'll let you know. |
| 05:22.52 | LeviHome | What's interesting is that, while using OS X, I don't miss the second button. |
| 05:23.16 | tensai | proof positive that OSX causes brain damage |
| 05:23.30 | LeviHome | When I hooked it up via synergy to a Linux box running Gnome, I immediately started missing it again. |
| 05:23.55 | LeviHome | tensai: No, it's proof positive of sane design. |
| 05:24.14 | hans | did you not miss it because the UI is so great that you don't need it, or because the UI was just plain designed not to use it, so there wouldn't be anything to do with it if you had it? |
| 05:24.15 | tensai | consistent, usable interface anyway |
| 05:24.16 | LeviHome | Or, rather, it's a good indication of it. |
| 05:25.05 | LeviHome | hans: It's designed so that it's not necessary. You /can/ do things with the other mouse button... there are lots of contextual menus, and you can get to them with control-click. But you can get to anything in them through other means. |
| 05:26.01 | hans | there's not a much better means to get to something with the mouse than to right-click. (if you must use the mouse) |
| 05:26.16 | hans | i know, not "usable". usability and efficiency go head to head. |
| 05:26.31 | hans | I prefer efficient, and i recognize it's no the most "usable" |
| 05:26.54 | LeviHome | Well, my left hand never leaves the keyboard, so control-click is no less efficient than right-clicking would be. And two-button mice work seamlessly. |
| 05:27.12 | LeviHome | Personally, though, I don't miss the context menus. |
| 05:27.30 | LeviHome | Anyway, it's time for bed. |
| 05:27.30 | hans | I'm guessing I wouldn't mind ctrl-click either, since I don't mind c-[ for escape in vim. |
| 05:27.36 | LeviHome | G'night! |
| 05:28.22 | hans | night |
| 05:29.37 | tensai | hans: how's your asterisk box coming? |
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| 05:41.17 | hans | fun |
| 05:41.30 | hans | not as fun as if I had an fxs device, but still fun. :) |
| 05:45.45 | tensai | what are you doing to connect locally? soft phone? |
| 05:46.45 | tensai | I think I want to get a Sipura SPA-1001. one FXS port, one ethernet port. 'bout $60 |
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| 05:56.14 | hans | i hadn't seen one that cheap. that's good to know |
| 05:56.31 | hans | i mostly don't connect locally, but I am working on the softphone situation |
| 05:56.51 | hans | mostly just use it as a glorified answering machine (emails the messages to us) |
| 05:57.31 | hans | when we move, or sooner, I plan on getting fxs. probably use some voip provier as our main service at that point. |
| 05:58.30 | tensai | http://www.voipsupply.com/index.php?cPath=96_124&ref=googlesipurapayperclick |
| 05:59.33 | findlay | hans: lol |
| 05:59.55 | findlay | garage stickers probably don't make good thermal conductors |
| 06:00.17 | tensai | or if you need a few more ports |
| 06:00.26 | tensai | http://www.voipsupply.com/index.php?cPath=99_139 |
| 06:02.35 | hans | heh |
| 06:03.13 | hans | tensai: I would probably spring for the spa-200 though, only $10 more for another port. Two ports could mean lots of fun |
| 06:04.04 | hans | sigh, but car repairs hit us hard this month so not for a couple of months anyhow. |
| 06:12.09 | tensai | hans: here's what you could do to call into voicemail. dial my asterisk box over the pstn and connect back via iax. |
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| 06:31.49 | xbmodder_lappy | hey i am back! i can do it. |
| 06:38.26 | xbmodder_lappy | Dudes and Dudetes, I made 100 dollars! |
| 07:16.03 | xbmodder_lappy | anyone? |
| 07:16.54 | tensai | ~dance |
| 07:16.55 | ibot | "ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' alive, stayin' alive" |
| 07:17.22 | tensai | ~sing |
| 07:17.23 | ibot | ACTION sings loudly |
| 07:18.39 | tensai | ~party |
| 07:18.39 | ibot | I'm too tired |
| 07:18.53 | tensai | ~rock on |
| 07:23.14 | tensai | ~sleep |
| 07:23.15 | ibot | sleep is probably overrated, and a poor substitute for caffeine |
| 07:31.34 | findlay | xbmodder_lappy: buler |
| 07:34.11 | xbmodder_lappy | buler? |
| 07:49.46 | findlay | there comes a point in tetris when the pieces fall too fast to get them into position |
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| 14:36.12 | hans | tensai: is your asterisk box local here |
| 14:36.54 | tensai | hans: heck no. that's what would be so fun about it. |
| 14:37.28 | hans | :) well I could dial my nufone number |
| 14:37.35 | hans | which is cheaper than standard long distance |
| 14:37.41 | hans | or I can just check my email |
| 14:38.53 | brailsmt_ | does imap store local copies of messages? |
| 14:39.49 | brailsmt_ | in other words, if I have thunderbird set up to use imap, can I use some biff, or write my own script to watch for new email somewhere? |
| 14:42.54 | hans | there are mail checkers that watch an imap box |
| 14:43.10 | brailsmt_ | really? you know their names/ |
| 14:43.12 | brailsmt_ | ? |
| 14:43.22 | hans | imap per se doesn't store anything locally, although many clients wisely cache messages - so if you can figure out where thunderbird keeps its cache and figure out how to tell when it sees new mail... |
| 14:43.30 | hans | not off the top of my head |
| 14:43.49 | hans | I imagine you could put fetchmail to work as a mail notifier too. |
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| 16:06.34 | ECS | ~lart Maquis |
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| 16:38.32 | jakea | Question about burning CDs / DVDs...... Burning data on a burner where the data is on a network drive. Good or bad? |
| 16:38.47 | Maquis | |lart ECS |
| 16:42.53 | hans | jakea: depends. if your drive has burnfree you're probably ok. even if not, as long as the network is stable for the duration it will be ok. |
| 16:43.07 | hans | (stable and faster than the burner) |
| 16:44.56 | jakea | okay, initial google searches not finding much, what does burnfree mean? |
| 16:45.37 | hans | just some hardware thing to keep from making coasters |
| 16:45.48 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@71.32.228.156) |
| 16:47.18 | Maquis | jakea: probably not... |
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| 17:08.36 | goozbach | you take your car to work. |
| 17:08.40 | ccc | http://www.tcpsecurity.com/ |
| 17:08.42 | *** part/#utah ccc (ghj@85.96.160.234) |
| 17:08.53 | goozbach | ok thanks ccc |
| 17:09.11 | goozbach | all along the undertow... strenthing it's hold... |
| 17:09.34 | spr | and when you're out of fuel, I'm still a float? |
| 17:09.39 | Jayce^ | now I can never go home |
| 17:09.50 | Jayce^ | mmmm, weezer |
| 17:10.08 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:11.00 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:11.12 | Jayce^ | D&D baby |
| 17:11.19 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:13.56 | goozbach | It's weezer day |
| 17:14.54 | goozbach | I've got a playlist of 93 songs... all weezer |
| 17:15.29 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:17.25 | goozbach | actually they are |
| 17:17.28 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:17.39 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@71.32.228.156) |
| 17:17.43 | goozbach | all of my weezer stuff is legal |
| 17:17.44 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:18.03 | goozbach | if I like a band, I buy their stuff |
| 17:19.20 | Jayce^ | right, and I download first to see if I like |
| 17:19.45 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:19.57 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:20.52 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.28 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.52 | Jayce^ | best thing to do for a band is go to a concert, and buy merchandise there |
| 17:22.11 | Jayce^ | that's where they get most of their money (eg directly to them) |
| 17:22.24 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:22.45 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:24.29 | spr | Hm, a live version of dope nose though |
| 17:25.29 | vontrapp | how does a 28amp power supply rate? is that a lot, hardly anything, avaerage? |
| 17:29.36 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:34.21 | goozbach | I do buy music, I just shy away from big label records |
| 17:34.57 | goozbach | I bought the new collective soul album this week because they didn't go through a big label |
| 17:35.49 | goozbach | they created/produced/distrubited this album themselves |
| 17:36.01 | shadoi | I just had a box with a load over 700 |
| 17:36.02 | shadoi | haha |
| 17:36.15 | shadoi | and it recovered |
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| 17:47.02 | vontrapp | what is psu? |
| 17:47.06 | vontrapp | oh, right |
| 17:47.09 | vontrapp | i don't know |
| 17:47.15 | vontrapp | it's gone already |
| 17:48.25 | vontrapp | i just looked at it and it had the 115V and uder that 3.3V DC and under that28A |
| 17:49.10 | vontrapp | anyway, i was wondering if it might be the power supply that was the problem |
| 17:49.18 | vontrapp | the computer wasn't coming on sometimes |
| 17:49.38 | vontrapp | it was a really fancy case with 3 fans and several LEDs |
| 17:49.53 | vontrapp | but only had one harddrive and one cdrom drive and the onboard stuff |
| 17:58.08 | hans | http://quizilla.com/users/retromex/quizzes/Which%20Napoleon%20Dynamite%2 |
| 17:58.09 | hans | 0character%20are%20you?/ |
| 17:58.14 | hans | er, that's one line. |
| 17:58.53 | hans | vontrapp: re the default routes. whichever one is listed first in ip route show is the one that will work. So figure out which order to plug things in to get the one you want on top. |
| 17:59.19 | hans | the advantage to just living with two default routes is that when the current default route interface goes away, you'll switch automatically to the other one. |
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| 18:04.23 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:05.00 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:05.07 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:06.41 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 18:06.45 | Jayce^ | he sits next to me :) |
| 18:07.02 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:07.53 | Jayce^ | and no, we dont' have an e10k here |
| 18:08.04 | Jayce^ | most stuff is clustered out |
| 18:08.16 | Jayce^ | only sparc stuff here is DB servers |
| 18:08.23 | vontrapp | hans: actually, when both are plugged in it doesn't work at all until i delete one of them, doesn't matter which |
| 18:08.25 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:08.30 | hans | vontrapp: shouldn't happen. |
| 18:08.50 | hans | what's more, I use waproamd and ifplugd together all the time with no ill effects. |
| 18:09.11 | Jayce^ | yeah, and other experiences |
| 18:09.26 | Jayce^ | probably back at excite, who overbought sparc like nothing else |
| 18:09.38 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.47 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:10.05 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:10.37 | Jayce^ | read a fun article this week, talking about how apple xserves were making inroads into IT, because of their price/performance |
| 18:10.51 | Jayce^ | the fun part was comparing a dell 1850 with an xserver |
| 18:11.02 | Jayce^ | (1850 is the current model we're getting) |
| 18:11.12 | Jayce^ | apple was almost half price, for the same power |
| 18:11.21 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:11.51 | Jayce^ | really want to get my hands on one to test out |
| 18:12.09 | goozbach | I tought a class at Lockheed/Martin last week, some of my students were working on the sonar equiptment for the navy's subs |
| 18:12.22 | goozbach | they use cut-down xservs |
| 18:12.55 | goozbach | matter of fact, I got to see one of their shipments... |
| 18:13.23 | Jayce^ | their san seems very cost-effective too |
| 18:13.36 | goozbach | there's not much cooler than seeing a pallet of about 20 Xserver g5's |
| 18:13.53 | *** join/#utah drip (~scoobmast@216.250.76.190) |
| 18:14.10 | vontrapp | nope, the two routes won't happily coexist |
| 18:14.11 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (~von@user-216.kingsley2.fiber.net) |
| 18:14.31 | vontrapp | yeah, it doesn't work |
| 18:15.07 | vontrapp | heres the entire ip route |
| 18:15.11 | vontrapp | 172.17.86.73 dev tun0 proto kernel scope link src 172.17.86.74 |
| 18:15.11 | vontrapp | 209.90.95.192/26 dev eth0 proto kernel scope link src 209.90.95.216 |
| 18:15.12 | vontrapp | 192.168.0.0/24 dev wlan0 proto kernel scope link src 192.168.0.133 |
| 18:15.12 | vontrapp | 172.17.86.0/24 via 172.17.86.73 dev tun0 |
| 18:15.12 | vontrapp | default via 192.168.0.1 dev wlan0 |
| 18:15.14 | vontrapp | default via 209.90.95.193 dev eth0 |
| 18:17.05 | hans | when I'm home I can give it a try and see what I end up with. |
| 18:28.00 | hans | cringely have a particularly pessimistic view of VOIP this week. |
| 18:28.03 | hans | http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050303.html |
| 18:32.31 | hans | http://www.defectiveyeti.com/archives/001181.html |
| 18:34.11 | xbmodder | ? |
| 18:41.28 | jsmith | hans: Problem is, cringley has a very good point. You can't control QoS outside your own network. |
| 18:42.08 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:42.14 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:42.35 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:42.50 | jsmith | joshc: Other networks aren't required to honor the QoS flags. |
| 18:43.56 | jsmith | hans: I've been to that McDonalds. Ran in, ordered a bunch of food, while two carloads of family circled the block more than twenty times trying to find a place to park. |
| 18:44.00 | vontrapp | or it could just lead to deadlock between the different isp's voip packets |
| 18:44.24 | jsmith | vontrapp: They're required not to block other's voip packets, but they don't have to play nice with them. |
| 18:44.31 | vontrapp | right |
| 18:44.41 | vontrapp | so not true deadlock |
| 18:44.42 | jsmith | vontrapp: FCC fined a telco just the other day for blocking VoIP |
| 18:44.57 | vontrapp | so you really would only have good service if both ends had the same isp |
| 18:45.24 | mrpull | better than the VOIP discussion |
| 18:45.24 | mrpull | http://news.com.com/Utah%20governor%20weighs%20antiporn%20proposal/2100-1028_3-5598912.html?tag=techdirt |
| 18:45.24 | mrpull | utah isps to censor internet? |
| 18:45.24 | vontrapp | or if they play nice |
| 18:46.56 | jsmith | vontrapp: Yup... again, you're trusting the people on the internet to play nice with your data, which is a bad assumption to make. |
| 18:48.12 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:48.36 | vontrapp | right, my point is say comcast and quest both have a voip service and prefer it strongly on the network so much that any other service is crap |
| 18:48.55 | vontrapp | then any call that between providers either way would be crap |
| 18:48.56 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:57.29 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 18:59.47 | *** join/#utah shadoi (~shadoi@zeus.bluehost.com) |
| 19:03.36 | JoshH | joshc: heh, i just barely finished reading your ownage of him |
| 19:04.42 | JoshH | i hate the kind of sun fanboys who are always referring to intel/pc hardware with terms like "junky, garbage, etc" |
| 19:04.49 | Jayce^ | back-peddled? no |
| 19:04.58 | Jayce^ | just restated the point he was making |
| 19:05.12 | Jayce^ | he definately isn't a sun fanboy, I know that |
| 19:05.22 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:05.24 | JoshH | he seems to have a similar mentality |
| 19:05.36 | Jayce^ | JoshH, I sit next to him, I know he isnt' :) |
| 19:05.41 | JoshH | lol |
| 19:05.52 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:06.30 | Jayce^ | " High end sun hardware kills PCs - On the other hand who wants to run the family site on an E10K. :) Every tool has a job." |
| 19:06.39 | Jayce^ | nah |
| 19:06.45 | JoshH | hence, why i thought he was a sun fan |
| 19:07.17 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:07.24 | Jayce^ | he's just pointing out that per box, Sun (and other monolithic systems) scale more than pc's... |
| 19:07.26 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:07.41 | Jayce^ | I disagree |
| 19:07.42 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:08.00 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:08.15 | Jayce^ | sure they do, it's just cheaper to engineer a multi-box system out of pc hardware to scale to the same limits |
| 19:08.22 | Jayce^ | which is why that's what we do here |
| 19:08.56 | Jayce^ | but you compare a single 32-proc sun vs Intel, and I'm really betting the sun is going to rock out the intel.. |
| 19:09.08 | Jayce^ | but the price of a 32-proc cluster, intel wins |
| 19:09.27 | Jayce^ | and you get rid of a lot of the problems with 32-procs in a single intel box |
| 19:09.58 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:10.32 | Jayce^ | hey, I'll agree with you on it, I'm all over going beyond a single box |
| 19:11.14 | Jayce^ | really wish we'd been able to get RAQ here instead of just regular Oracle/sun setup.. |
| 19:11.42 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:12.08 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:13.04 | tene | This morning while trying to wake up, I hallucinated that "Jayce^" was on irc inside of my alarm clock. |
| 19:13.10 | tene | it was... strange. |
| 19:14.17 | hans | jsmith: definitely true, and probably will be a problem when the phone company starts playing dirty |
| 19:14.27 | Jayce^ | not a fan myself either, but our main system runs on it here |
| 19:14.35 | hans | but I'm also thinking, internet access, qos, etc. is only improving |
| 19:14.39 | Jayce^ | and while moving, it would have been a better setup for us, and the growth plan |
| 19:14.49 | Jayce^ | tene, WAKE UP |
| 19:15.00 | hans | and if phone companies behave like phone companies always do, there's always going to be a way to undersell them |
| 19:15.07 | tene | just these floating letters speaking, somehow inside my clock. |
| 19:16.00 | Jayce^ | mm, nice day.. |
| 19:16.09 | Jayce^ | later folks |
| 19:16.13 | tene | byebye |
| 19:19.22 | *** join/#utah mooneroid (~mooneroid@jmoon.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:19.25 | *** join/#utah alphahawk (~alphahawk@70.56.105.158) |
| 19:35.00 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (~xbmodder@adsl-67-117-130-251.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 19:35.02 | xbmodder_lappy | hey ums |
| 19:35.11 | vontrapp | why does Jayce^ get a half day? |
| 19:36.00 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:37.05 | xbmodder_lappy | i wana see hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy |
| 19:37.55 | xbmodder_lappy | and and and splinter cell |
| 19:42.12 | vontrapp | heh, a property manager says a space was forgotten about, and asks us to see what's up |
| 19:42.40 | vontrapp | then doesn't give what space it was |
| 19:51.16 | hans | vontrapp: outer space, of course. |
| 20:01.07 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 20:32.30 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 20:34.35 | tene | vontrapp: maybe he forgot about it. |
| 20:37.59 | vontrapp | :) |
| 20:40.09 | tene | gah... |
| 20:40.33 | tene | "zip+4" does *NOT* mean "the first part of your zip code followed by the number 4" |
| 20:40.42 | hans | hehe |
| 20:41.23 | tene | and I don't know *why* people would want to write their name in incomprehensible script on a form that's supposed to get them money. |
| 20:41.29 | vontrapp | Phone # + area - 7362451 area |
| 20:41.56 | tene | girls with the looping and the made-up letters and stuff. |
| 20:42.16 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 20:56.38 | brailsmt_ | what is the non-greedy version of * in perl regex? |
| 21:00.23 | tene | one more thing: |
| 21:00.25 | tene | "salt lake" and "wasatch" are *NOT* foreign countries! |
| 21:03.17 | Maquis | tene: hahaha... |
| 21:07.23 | jsmith | brailsmt_: *? maybe... I don't remember, but that's what comes to mind |
| 21:08.32 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@71.32.228.156) |
| 21:26.32 | Maquis | yay! |
| 21:26.55 | goozbach | ~lart Maquis |
| 21:36.10 | Maquis | |lart goozbach |
| 21:36.19 | Maquis | mmmm... cheese!!! :) |
| 21:37.47 | goozbach | heh |
| 21:49.54 | Maquis | hmmm... |
| 21:49.57 | Maquis | now this is weird |
| 21:51.22 | Maquis | so, i'm connected to irc, and i can ssh/scp files around... |
| 21:51.28 | Maquis | but i can't get online... |
| 21:51.53 | goozbach | Maquis: you _are_ online |
| 21:52.07 | Maquis | bah.. that's not what i meant to say |
| 21:52.13 | goozbach | :) |
| 21:52.14 | Maquis | i mean, i can't ping, i can't go to websites, etc |
| 21:52.36 | Maquis | solved the problem though |
| 21:52.46 | synic | any of you use request tracker? |
| 21:53.01 | vontrapp | Maquis: dns problems? |
| 21:53.13 | Maquis | no... just stupidity problems |
| 21:53.44 | synic | Jayce^? |
| 21:53.45 | brigham | Jayce^ is going to hate this design, but I'm really liking the direction it's going. |
| 21:53.59 | Maquis | brigham: forget Jayce^ |
| 21:53.59 | brigham | alright |
| 21:54.10 | goozbach | brigam working on design... |
| 21:54.18 | goozbach | what an advanced bot |
| 21:54.54 | goozbach | Jayce^ is his perlness |
| 21:55.07 | goozbach | Jayce^? |
| 21:55.07 | brigham | Jayce^ is his perlness |
| 21:55.23 | hans | hehe |
| 21:55.31 | synic | debian? |
| 21:55.31 | brigham | debian is very solid |
| 21:55.37 | hans | synic? |
| 21:55.47 | synic | brigham: debian =~ s/is/is/ |
| 21:55.48 | hans | synic is synical |
| 21:56.05 | synic | oh yeah. |
| 21:56.30 | synic | is brigham basically a ruby port of blootbot? |
| 22:00.00 | joshc | brigham, be my friend |
| 22:00.09 | joshc | ibot, be my friend |
| 22:00.11 | ibot | ACTION hugs joshc |
| 22:00.17 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:00.26 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:01.20 | *** join/#utah me_ (~me@67.50.46.118) |
| 22:01.28 | me_ | hello |
| 22:01.39 | shadoi | hi me |
| 22:02.41 | me_ | shadoi: do you know a good source for learning about fourier transforms? |
| 22:02.57 | me_ | besides google |
| 22:03.07 | Maquis | wikipedia? |
| 22:03.07 | brigham | wikipedia is rather engrossing isn't it |
| 22:03.16 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 22:03.23 | me_ | ok |
| 22:03.39 | hans | me_: mathworld |
| 22:04.02 | Maquis | me_: looks like wikipedia has a good bit of explanation.... don't know if it's what you're looking for, though |
| 22:04.32 | me_ | mathworld has too much math |
| 22:04.57 | hans | heh. you ain't gonna learn fourier without math |
| 22:05.15 | hans | the fftw docs might help |
| 22:05.17 | me_ | yes well it's not a good intro |
| 22:05.21 | hans | depends on what you're trying to do |
| 22:05.22 | me_ | for me |
| 22:05.24 | hans | or learn |
| 22:05.33 | Maquis | wikipedia might be a better intro...??? |
| 22:05.39 | me_ | yeah I'm reading it |
| 22:05.55 | Maquis | :) |
| 22:06.14 | shadoi | holy crap yum is slow |
| 22:06.15 | me_ | and then I'll dl a fortran compiler |
| 22:10.12 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@67.137.148.11) |
| 22:10.27 | sjansen | Amazing. Absa-freaking-mazing. |
| 22:12.18 | shadoi | do tell |
| 22:12.36 | me_ | and? |
| 22:13.01 | hans | he's busy driving an oil tanker now, please leave a message and he will reply at his earliest convenience. |
| 22:13.07 | sjansen | No, I won't tell. But it sure is a good thing we haven't gone live with the new site. |
| 22:13.20 | me_ | it doesn't count if it's not live |
| 22:13.33 | hans | is it home code or some project? at least tell us what software it is :) |
| 22:13.48 | me_ | and is the tanker a boat or a truck? |
| 22:13.59 | vontrapp | and? |
| 22:14.31 | sjansen | It was contracted. PHP. Security was a specific requirement. They requested register globals be enabled. We refused. So they peppered the code with import_request_variables("pg", ""). |
| 22:14.53 | sjansen | Of course they don't validate anything. Just shove it into straight SQL. |
| 22:15.05 | neybar | lol |
| 22:15.11 | me_ | oooh you and tmobile |
| 22:15.17 | sjansen | I'm starting to wonder how stupid one can be and continue to breathe. |
| 22:15.25 | vontrapp | haha, they're firx0rd |
| 22:15.56 | neybar | what did you expect with PHP? |
| 22:16.09 | me_ | and when are you going live? |
| 22:18.24 | hans | anyone know how to get OOo to shut up about not saving a .doc in OOo format? |
| 22:18.45 | hans | I don't want to be prompted to save it in OOo format, and I don't want to be asked whether I'm sure I want to close when closing. |
| 22:19.25 | sjansen | me_: When are we going live? At this rate, who knows. |
| 22:20.17 | me_ | speaking of php security |
| 22:20.24 | me_ | is there anything wrong with using sessions? |
| 22:20.32 | me_ | over ssl? |
| 22:20.35 | sjansen | For the last three days I've been concentrating on "just getting it out the door". Each day seems to put me deeper in the whole as I discover an amazing new level of stupidity. |
| 22:21.01 | sjansen | me_: Maybe. Do you share the machine with untrusted users? |
| 22:21.01 | me_ | dang... well just think how good it will be when you finally get it out the door ;) |
| 22:21.20 | me_ | sjansen: well the security of the session isn't paramount |
| 22:21.42 | me_ | is the better way to do it in cookies? |
| 22:21.58 | me_ | I mean have the session_use_cookies turned on? |
| 22:22.21 | sjansen | I personally don't like URL rewriting, so I'd only use cookies. |
| 22:22.58 | sjansen | But if the security of the session doesn't matter, than the main objection against rewriting is that's it's not very user friendly. |
| 22:23.36 | sjansen | In my experience, PHP sessions are kinda fragile. But they work for quick and simple stuff. |
| 22:24.01 | me_ | fragile how? |
| 22:24.24 | sjansen | Lost sessions. |
| 22:28.08 | jsmith | sjansen: Some of us save sessions to a database, so we can use load-balanced firewalls. |
| 22:29.46 | me_ | jsmith: php supports that? cool... |
| 22:31.05 | joshc | l8r sk8rs |
| 22:31.07 | *** part/#utah joshc (~josh@65.37.125.194) |
| 22:34.02 | vontrapp | i don't even know why |
| 22:37.03 | shadoi | that's very very uninteresting. |
| 22:37.29 | phphound | unless an alien comes out of your chapped lips |
| 22:38.27 | phphound | vontrapps |
| 22:42.13 | vontrapp | but my lips hurt real bad! |
| 22:43.12 | hans | just borrow some chapstick from the school nurse. I know she has like 5 sticks in her drawer. |
| 22:43.29 | phphound | yeah, galll |
| 22:44.05 | vontrapp | freakin' idiot! |
| 22:45.55 | hans | galll? dukat? |
| 22:46.47 | hans | jakea: is tonight a flippin' rerun? |
| 22:49.12 | bonez41 | I just rm'd something I shouldn't have..it was /etc/rc0.d/K20postfix |
| 22:49.26 | bonez41 | is there any way to undelete it? or is it likely not a bit deal? |
| 22:49.47 | sjansen | jsmith: That's the right way to do things. |
| 22:49.52 | hans | there's no way worth bothering with for that file |
| 22:50.05 | hans | just ask someone to send you their copy, or reinstall postfix |
| 22:50.15 | bonez41 | ok..... |
| 22:50.22 | hans | actually, hello, it's not even a file, it's a symlink to /etc/init.d/postfix |
| 22:50.44 | hans | ln -s /etc/init.d/postfix /etc/rc0.d/K20postfix |
| 22:51.32 | bonez41 | if I am running exim4 for my MTA..then I don't want postfix around anyway, right? |
| 22:51.38 | bonez41 | they compete? those two? |
| 22:51.43 | shadoi | ja |
| 22:51.50 | hans | yes, they compete. in that case you don't need to worry about it. |
| 22:55.24 | bonez41 | so if I ran apt-get install postfix, but I really shouldn't have..and it was planning to remove exim, et al..but it never showed removing exim et al and I halted that process..exim should all still intact, right? |
| 22:55.56 | jakea | hans: Yes, no new eps till April |
| 22:56.08 | shadoi | bonez41: did you tell it "yes" to the remove? |
| 22:56.58 | shadoi | might wanna run "dpkg -C" just to see if it broke it |
| 22:57.05 | bonez41 | shadoi: I simply launched apt-get install postfix, IN ERRO..but once I noticed as part of installing that it was going to REMOVE exim et al I halted it before it finished downloading the needed postfix packages.. |
| 22:57.27 | shadoi | bonez41: yeah you're fine. |
| 22:57.47 | shadoi | bonez41: I always recommend adding "-u" to your apt-get commands |
| 22:58.21 | bonez41 | shadoi: what does the -u do? |
| 22:58.28 | shadoi | er.. well that's only for upgrades |
| 22:58.32 | shadoi | nevermind |
| 22:58.37 | shadoi | shows you what's going to be upgraded |
| 22:59.36 | bonez41 | ok..the dpkg -C reported nothing... |
| 23:00.02 | shadoi | yeah you never got far enough to worry about it |
| 23:00.08 | bonez41 | ok....thanks |
| 23:01.28 | bucky | apt-get install -s will give you a dry run of the process before you commit to a change |
| 23:01.55 | bucky | but you can't have two MTA's on your system, that's why it was replacing exim with postfix |
| 23:02.03 | shadoi | apt-get -s install |
| 23:02.21 | bonez41 | ok.. |
| 23:02.56 | shadoi | -s, --simulate, --just-print, --dry-run, --recon, --no-act |
| 23:02.59 | shadoi | for the indecisive.. haha |
| 23:15.26 | *** join/#utah Nadie (~kvirc@gw.vintela.com) |
| 23:21.25 | levi | Yay, my board is up and running again! |
| 23:22.03 | shadoi | as in.. BBS? |
| 23:22.52 | levi | No. |
| 23:23.09 | levi | As in my development board for an embedded systems project. |
| 23:23.22 | shadoi | ah... hrmm |
| 23:23.23 | shadoi | ok |
| 23:23.39 | shadoi | reference from someoen? |
| 23:23.42 | levi | I switched boards to one with a different flash chip, and I had to modify the bootloader's flash driver. |
| 23:23.53 | shadoi | hehe.. brings back memories |
| 23:23.59 | shadoi | I used to do that crap for work |
| 23:27.18 | levi | I like it a lot better than most of the other things I've done for work. |
| 23:27.56 | shadoi | I designed an online development lab site so people could work on hard-to-get reference boards. |
| 23:28.22 | shadoi | techonline bought it and still uses it I think. |
| 23:30.39 | goozbach | the php is infecting sjansen's mind |
| 23:31.18 | hans | heheh |
| 23:36.30 | goozbach | what was the hand waving then? |
| 23:36.38 | goozbach | and the chanting? |
| 23:46.39 | hans | "I need a new phone. This phone randomly does not ring. It is not my |
| 23:46.40 | hans | imagination." |
| 23:50.48 | shadoi | I think I said those very words once. |
| 23:53.21 | *** join/#utah nathangg- (user@128.187.253.44) |
| 23:54.22 | nathangg- | I have a problem (I'm using FC3): I changed my hostname in /etc/sysconfig/network, but for some reason, mailman is using my old hostname (I just installed mailman today)... any ideas where mailman is pulling my old hostname from? |
| 23:54.44 | nathangg- | PS I changed my hostname 3 days ago |
| 23:54.48 | nathangg- | and installed mailman today |
| 23:54.57 | hans | /etc/mailname perhaps |
| 23:55.19 | nathangg- | I'll check... |
| 23:56.19 | nathangg- | does linux have a "find in files" type of program? |
| 23:56.27 | nathangg- | i could search my entire HD for my old hostname |
| 23:56.35 | hans | that would take a while, but yes |
| 23:56.48 | hans | find / | xargs grep oldhostname |
| 23:56.53 | shadoi | doodle will index files |
| 23:56.58 | shadoi | takes a while the first time |
| 23:57.16 | hans | the other place to check is /etc/hosts |
| 23:59.00 | shadoi | I wouldn't recommend grepping files in /dev, or proc. :) |
| 23:59.26 | hans | you could throw in a -type f to find |
| 23:59.39 | hans | or you could ask sjansen how to convince mailman which hostname to use. he's an expert on that. |
| 23:59.59 | nathangg- | that type -f looks good |