| 00:01.18 | tensai | dpkg -P emacs |
| 00:03.05 | *** join/#utah wade_ (~wps@71.32.228.158) |
| 00:07.34 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 00:23.24 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~scott@216.126.221.115) |
| 00:24.30 | SpecialK | ~lart Maquis |
| 00:32.56 | Maquis | |lart SpecialK |
| 00:36.23 | hans | jakea: so I've been watching some ds9 and I noticed that a familiar actor played a few recurring characters on ds9 |
| 00:36.42 | hans | namely weyoun and the one cross-eyed ferengi that quark hates |
| 00:36.52 | jakea | hans: Oh yes, Jeffery Combs has played many parts |
| 00:37.08 | hans | what else? |
| 00:37.25 | jakea | I think he made one Voyager appearence.... |
| 00:37.42 | jakea | and I think he was someone else as well on DS9 |
| 00:39.18 | jakea | "Penk" in episode: "Tsunkatse" (episode # 6.15) 9 February 2000 |
| 00:39.27 | jakea | that was Voyager |
| 00:39.44 | jakea | "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" playing "Extra in final holodeck scene" (uncredited) in episode: "What You Leave Behind: Part 2" (episode # 7.26) 2 June 1999 |
| 00:40.07 | jakea | "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" playing "Det. Mulcahey" in episode: "Far Beyond the Stars" (episode # 6.13) 11 February 1998 |
| 00:40.28 | jakea | "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" playing "Tiron" in episode: "Meridian" (episode # 3.8) 14 November 1994 |
| 00:40.45 | jakea | so counting the extra, there is 5 on DS9 |
| 00:40.50 | jakea | are |
| 00:41.16 | jakea | oh, and two on Enterprise |
| 00:41.18 | jakea | "Enterprise" playing "Krem" in episode: "Acquisition" (episode # 1.19) 27 March 2002 |
| 00:41.43 | jakea | Star Trek: Elite Force II (2003) (VG) (voice) .... Commander Suldok |
| 00:41.54 | hans | tried out for riker |
| 00:42.49 | jakea | ya |
| 00:43.23 | jakea | I could not picture him as Riker |
| 00:43.39 | jakea | maybe a Data... |
| 00:43.44 | hans | well it would be a different riker. :) |
| 00:43.59 | hans | frakes doesn't seem much like riker in season1 either |
| 00:44.59 | jakea | lol |
| 00:46.40 | jakea | Along with J.G. Hertzler, Randy Oglesby and Thomas Kopache, he is one of only four actors to play seven different characters on "Star Trek." |
| 00:54.33 | emcnabb | jakea, always a trekie |
| 00:54.45 | hans | ~fry emcnabb |
| 00:54.47 | ibot | ACTION grabs emcnabb and fries him on his BFCooker9000 |
| 00:55.09 | emcnabb | ~fry hans |
| 00:55.14 | ibot | ACTION grabs hans and fries him on his BFCooker9000 |
| 01:00.20 | jakea | emcnabb: http://jamestkirk.byu.edu/ |
| 01:00.41 | emcnabb | NOOOO!!! |
| 01:00.43 | emcnabb | that's horrible |
| 01:01.00 | jakea | mirrored from http://www.khaaan.com |
| 01:01.06 | hans | heh |
| 01:03.23 | jakea | emcnabb: this should make up for it: http://microsoft.byu.edu/ |
| 01:03.43 | jakea | physics had it for some reason, they gave me control of the web, so I added a meta tag |
| 01:03.44 | *** join/#utah usynic (~synic@c-67-172-242-219.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:03.46 | emcnabb | nice :-) |
| 01:06.43 | hans | |spell priviledged |
| 01:07.22 | hans | ~spell privileged |
| 01:07.56 | sjansen | I love Debian! |
| 01:08.44 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:09.28 | emcnabb | the real sjansen is not happy... |
| 01:09.37 | Maquis | hans: i might have to pull him off the server |
| 01:09.37 | emcnabb | it's a good thing he doesn't have his laptop on |
| 01:09.55 | Maquis | emcnabb: you can tell him that the problem's been resolved for a bit |
| 01:10.01 | goozbach | blastphemy!!! |
| 01:10.03 | hans | that would be a pity. I'd think you'd just take control |
| 01:10.04 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 01:10.13 | goozbach | HAN SHOOTS FIRST!!! |
| 01:10.13 | hans | I did give him to you after all |
| 01:10.21 | Maquis | hans: i don't know the commands... so, i did what i could |
| 01:10.46 | Maquis | ~spell blastphemy |
| 01:10.53 | Maquis | :) |
| 01:12.43 | *** join/#utah brigham (fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 01:16.54 | *** join/#utah brigham_ (~brigham@byu074961wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 01:17.19 | Maquis | |lart goozbach |
| 01:19.08 | tensai | |forget forces $who to advertise viagria on their forehead |
| 01:19.21 | tensai | |rmlart forces $who to advertise viagria on their forehead |
| 01:19.21 | brigham_ | done |
| 01:19.22 | brigham | fine |
| 01:19.30 | tensai | |fight! |
| 01:20.12 | emcnabb | brigham |
| 01:20.14 | brigham | emcnabb: 'sup? |
| 01:20.23 | emcnabb | brigham brigham_ |
| 01:20.34 | Maquis | brigham_ |
| 01:20.34 | brigham_ | Maquis: hola :) |
| 01:20.39 | Maquis | hola... |
| 01:21.01 | Maquis | |fight is <reply>|fight |
| 01:21.02 | brigham_ | done |
| 01:21.03 | brigham | alright |
| 01:21.06 | Maquis | |fight |
| 01:21.18 | Maquis | hmmm |
| 01:21.26 | tensai | fight? |
| 01:21.26 | brigham_ | |fight |
| 01:21.28 | brigham | |fight |
| 01:21.34 | Maquis | ok... |
| 01:21.39 | tensai | `fight |
| 01:21.42 | Maquis | |forget fight |
| 01:21.43 | brigham_ | aight |
| 01:21.44 | brigham | alright |
| 01:21.53 | Maquis | |fight is <reply> fight? |
| 01:21.54 | brigham_ | beats me |
| 01:21.56 | brigham | no idea |
| 01:22.18 | hans | |fight is <reply> 'fight |
| 01:22.18 | brigham_ | alright |
| 01:22.20 | brigham | done |
| 01:22.22 | Maquis | |fight is <reply>'fight |
| 01:22.22 | brigham_ | but fight is <reply> 'fight |
| 01:22.24 | brigham | but fight is <reply> 'fight |
| 01:22.26 | Maquis | ok |
| 01:22.32 | Maquis | 'fight |
| 01:22.32 | brigham_ | 'fight |
| 01:22.34 | brigham | 'fight |
| 01:22.34 | brigham_ | 'fight |
| 01:22.35 | brigham | 'fight |
| 01:22.36 | brigham_ | 'fight |
| 01:22.38 | brigham | 'fight |
| 01:22.38 | brigham_ | 'fight |
| 01:22.39 | brigham | 'fight |
| 01:22.40 | brigham_ | 'fight |
| 01:22.41 | brigham | 'fight |
| 01:22.41 | brigham_ | 'fight |
| 01:22.43 | brigham | 'fight |
| 01:22.43 | brigham_ | 'fight |
| 01:22.45 | brigham | 'fight |
| 01:22.46 | brigham_ | 'fight |
| 01:22.47 | tensai | |forget fight |
| 01:22.47 | brigham_ | sure |
| 01:22.47 | brigham | 'fight |
| 01:22.49 | brigham | 'fight |
| 01:22.49 | brigham | lemme take care of that for you |
| 01:22.54 | Maquis | :) |
| 01:23.24 | tensai | |Maquis stinks is <reply>'Maquis stinks |
| 01:23.25 | brigham_ | alright |
| 01:23.27 | brigham | okay |
| 01:23.35 | Maquis | hey!!! |
| 01:23.49 | Maquis | |forget Maquis stinks |
| 01:23.49 | brigham | alright |
| 01:23.50 | brigham_ | sure |
| 01:24.46 | tensai | |Maquis is <reply>viva la france! |
| 01:24.46 | brigham | but Maquis is a budding Linux wizards facing distinct challenges on the path to becoming a grey beard. |
| 01:24.47 | brigham_ | but Maquis is a budding Linux wizard facing distinct challenges on the path to becoming a grey beard. |
| 01:24.56 | Maquis | tensai: don't change that... |
| 01:24.57 | Maquis | i like it |
| 01:25.08 | Maquis | i don't know who set it... but i like it :) |
| 01:25.17 | tensai | |factinfo Maquis |
| 01:25.30 | tensai | ~factinfo tensai |
| 01:25.30 | ibot | tensai -- it has been requested 9 times, last by tensai, 3d 19h 24m 15s ago; it has been locked by tensai. |
| 01:25.56 | tensai | ~factinfo Maquis |
| 01:25.56 | ibot | maquis -- last modified at Wed Jan 19 00:17:11 2005 by SpecialK!~chatzilla@128.187.254.128; it has been requested 5 times, last by xbmodder at Sun Feb 13 17:56:28 2005. |
| 01:26.06 | tensai | ~Maquis |
| 01:26.07 | ibot | i heard maquis is Maquis. Lart Happy |
| 01:26.07 | hans | brigham_: quit |
| 01:26.21 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 01:26.28 | tensai | ~Maquis is <reply>Viva la France! |
| 01:26.29 | ibot | ...but maquis is already something else... |
| 01:26.33 | tensai | ~no, Maquis is <reply>Viva la France! |
| 01:26.47 | Maquis | sprintf(buf, "s,%d", account); |
| 01:26.47 | findlay | ~Maquis |
| 01:26.48 | ibot | from memory, maquis is Maquis. Lart Happy |
| 01:26.56 | Maquis | account exists... |
| 01:26.56 | tensai | ibot: no, Maquis is <reply>Viva la France! |
| 01:26.57 | ibot | okay, tensai |
| 01:27.02 | Maquis | it's an int... |
| 01:27.07 | Maquis | buf exists |
| 01:27.17 | Maquis | and account isn't too long for buf... |
| 01:27.28 | hans | snprintf |
| 01:27.29 | Maquis | so, why is it seg-faulting??? |
| 01:27.37 | tensai | Maquis: what hans said |
| 01:27.38 | hans | 'so, why |
| 01:27.44 | findlay | is it bad if the -12V power supply voltage is at -15? |
| 01:27.51 | Maquis | this is even something that the prof wrote... |
| 01:28.04 | hans | all the more reason why it must be borked |
| 01:28.13 | goozbach | findlay: that could be a problem |
| 01:28.15 | tensai | ~lart professors who teach sprintf |
| 01:28.22 | goozbach | is it peaking at -15? |
| 01:28.30 | goozbach | or constant? |
| 01:28.32 | findlay | goozbach: what's an acceptable range? |
| 01:28.42 | findlay | it's constant at -15 |
| 01:28.53 | findlay | and -5V is at -9.69 |
| 01:28.57 | goozbach | +/- 3 is usually acceptable |
| 01:29.02 | tensai | why back in my day we were lucky to get -10V from our power supply |
| 01:29.26 | Maquis | still seg-faulting |
| 01:29.37 | hans | ulimit -c unlimited |
| 01:29.39 | hans | gdb foo core |
| 01:29.55 | Maquis | :( |
| 01:29.56 | tensai | > info buf |
| 01:30.01 | tensai | > info account |
| 01:30.05 | findlay | where can I find out about how the different voltage supplies are used? |
| 01:30.38 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 01:31.20 | Maquis | info buf says that it's an undefined info command |
| 01:31.43 | tensai | hrmm. my gdb is rusty |
| 01:31.47 | tensai | print buf? |
| 01:31.59 | hans | p for short |
| 01:32.00 | hans | p buf |
| 01:32.05 | hans | p *buf |
| 01:32.15 | hans | 0x0 is a good example of a bad value for buf. |
| 01:32.26 | Maquis | no symbol "buf' in current context |
| 01:33.04 | tensai | > where |
| 01:33.10 | tensai | are you sure it's crapping out on that line? |
| 01:33.33 | Maquis | well, the line before that one, and the line after it are both printfs |
| 01:33.40 | Maquis | and it gets one, and not the other |
| 01:33.55 | hans | bt |
| 01:33.59 | hans | for backtrace |
| 01:34.01 | tensai | that could just be due to flushing |
| 01:34.12 | Maquis | #0 0xb7f2d5ff in strlen () from /lib/libc.so.6 |
| 01:34.12 | Maquis | #1 0x0828d4ac in ?? () |
| 01:34.12 | Maquis | #2 0xb7f045b5 in vfprintf () from /lib/libc.so.6 |
| 01:34.13 | tensai | buffering rather |
| 01:34.23 | Maquis | that means nothing to me |
| 01:34.26 | tensai | did you not compile with -g? |
| 01:34.30 | Maquis | ummm... |
| 01:34.31 | Maquis | no |
| 01:34.42 | Maquis | i'm being called to dinner... i'll be back later... |
| 01:34.45 | tensai | recompile and start over. gdb won't help much without it |
| 01:35.54 | tensai | that said, I've found quite a few bug in apps not compiled with -g |
| 01:36.35 | tensai | not as easy though |
| 01:37.44 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 01:39.24 | findlay | anybody know where I would look to find information about the power supply voltages? |
| 01:40.27 | findlay | hans: have you had any luck with LADSPA? |
| 01:40.37 | hans | to do what? |
| 01:40.53 | findlay | increase the volume of microphone capture |
| 01:41.24 | hans | for what app? the app would have to support ladspa |
| 01:41.42 | Newsome | ~google |
| 01:41.43 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, google is a search engine found at http://www.google.com/ |
| 01:41.57 | Newsome | ~google atx power supply pinout |
| 01:42.31 | findlay | true, you were saying before that it's difficult to get a strong enough signal without a preamp |
| 01:42.49 | findlay | but I guess it's after all a hardware limitation |
| 01:43.12 | findlay | without having a strong enough signal pre ADC |
| 01:43.39 | hans | post adc |
| 01:43.53 | findlay | thanks Newsome, those sound like good keywords |
| 01:44.02 | hans | the mic I'm using works fine on other systems. so it's the ADC that's not giving a loud enough signal. |
| 01:44.14 | hans | but yeah, hardware |
| 01:44.52 | hans | but if you can get an app to do its own amplification (e.g. with a ladspa plugin) it would be able to overcome that, but not without cost (more noise) |
| 01:46.01 | hans | or get a preamp and get that signal high enough pre-ADC would help too |
| 01:50.37 | xbmodder_lappy | hey all. how do i print a huge (20x20 inch thing) on multiple pieces of paper so i can tape it together. whenever i print it resizes it. |
| 01:50.58 | findlay | use a big printer? |
| 01:51.11 | xbmodder_lappy | findlay, good joke |
| 01:51.24 | xbmodder_lappy | possibly the best joke ever |
| 01:51.37 | goozbach | I wouldn't go that far |
| 01:51.48 | xbmodder_lappy | well its 196x72 |
| 01:58.15 | *** part/#utah jnielsendotnet (jn@c-24-2-72-123.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:58.26 | findlay | because she can't bear to be away |
| 01:58.31 | findlay | (: |
| 01:58.52 | Maquis | findlay: ummm... sure |
| 01:58.52 | Maquis | ? |
| 02:05.53 | tensai | Maquis: so, add the -g to your CFLAGS and recompile |
| 02:05.59 | Maquis | i recompiled |
| 02:06.08 | tensai | ok. run it again and make a new core |
| 02:06.14 | Maquis | did that |
| 02:06.18 | Maquis | still can't find much info... |
| 02:06.25 | Maquis | but i can sprintf to buf before hand |
| 02:06.29 | Maquis | and then print that out, and it works fine |
| 02:06.29 | tensai | what's the backtrace show now? |
| 02:06.43 | Maquis | same thing as before |
| 02:06.50 | Maquis | still has the ?? on the second line |
| 02:07.15 | Maquis | but i cna sprintf to buf, and the print that out... so it's not a problem with buf not existing... |
| 02:07.27 | Maquis | i'm using snprintf... |
| 02:08.09 | tensai | you can never be sure unless you fflush() after you printf() |
| 02:09.36 | Maquis | tensai: do you mean flush()? |
| 02:09.38 | tensai | I don't see how it could get to vfprintf without having something further up the stack |
| 02:09.49 | Maquis | or fflush(stderr)? |
| 02:09.50 | tensai | fflush. flushes the output buffer |
| 02:09.54 | tensai | yeah |
| 02:10.05 | tensai | or stdout, depending |
| 02:10.07 | Maquis | ok.. |
| 02:10.17 | Maquis | i'm doing both right before the last printf that i'm actually getting... |
| 02:10.40 | Maquis | and i'm still getting that last printf |
| 02:10.44 | Maquis | and then the seg fault... |
| 02:12.00 | Maquis | tensai: can i /msg you with the output and code? |
| 02:12.15 | goozbach | ~pastebin |
| 02:12.16 | ibot | rumour has it, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca |
| 02:12.25 | goozbach | |pastebin |
| 02:13.35 | Maquis | goozbach: do you want to see it too? |
| 02:13.43 | Maquis | i can stick it in pastebin if others are interested... |
| 02:15.00 | Maquis | http://pastebin.ca/6696 |
| 02:16.48 | levi | What's the typedef of Message? |
| 02:18.01 | levi | And the declaration/definition of buf? |
| 02:18.33 | Maquis | levi: just a sec... |
| 02:18.43 | Maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:18.54 | Maquis | typedef struct |
| 02:18.54 | Maquis | {int from; // source |
| 02:18.54 | Maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:18.54 | Maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:18.54 | Maquis | } Message; |
| 02:19.22 | findlay | pastebin? That's a lot of paste. Oh, wait, I see. (: |
| 02:19.54 | Maquis | :) |
| 02:20.49 | levi | Hmm. |
| 02:22.51 | findlay | maybe he went to shave his beard |
| 02:22.55 | levi | Maybe it's crashing in the fprintf to stderr. |
| 02:24.02 | levi | Definitions of arg and atmDME? |
| 02:24.39 | levi | Oh, why are you trying to print buf as a %d? |
| 02:24.44 | levi | Are your args there out of order? |
| 02:24.45 | Maquis | levi: it looks (from gdb) like you might be right about the fprintf... |
| 02:25.14 | levi | Yeah, I think you're trying to print an int as a string. |
| 02:25.19 | Maquis | bah |
| 02:25.23 | levi | atmDME is an int, right? |
| 02:25.32 | Maquis | yeah... |
| 02:25.39 | tensai | it's trying to use your int as a pointer |
| 02:25.40 | Maquis | thanks for helping with that |
| 02:25.42 | levi | Dereferencing it is causing a segfault. :) |
| 02:25.54 | Maquis | stupid error! |
| 02:26.01 | tensai | aren't they all? |
| 02:26.16 | Maquis | yeah..a. |
| 02:26.31 | levi | Glad I could help. :) |
| 02:27.25 | tensai | man, I haven't coded in C for quite a while |
| 02:27.41 | findlay | I've found bugs like that in code I wrote (really ugly at that, but I think it's mostly due to the framework I had to use) that took me days to find (: |
| 02:28.27 | Maquis | :) |
| 02:28.37 | tensai | char buffer[2]; for (i=0; i<=2; i++){ ... } |
| 02:28.41 | findlay | you get used to gcc's occult errors and gdb's cryptic pronouncements after a while and can then divine what they are trying to tell you |
| 02:28.45 | tensai | that bug almost killed me once |
| 02:28.47 | Maquis | this one took me a while befre i got around to asking here.. |
| 02:29.18 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~josh@josh.dsl.aros.net) |
| 02:29.53 | levi | Heh. Off-by-one errors are annoying. |
| 02:29.56 | findlay | tensai: you mean the 'i<=2;'? |
| 02:30.15 | tensai | yeah. it was more difficult to find in the actual code |
| 02:30.42 | tensai | and I was coding in VC++ which makes everything 10x as hard |
| 02:30.45 | levi | Yeah, things like that are usually separated by a bunch of code and further obscured by macros. |
| 02:30.52 | findlay | lol |
| 02:31.08 | Maquis | as much as i despise seg faults, they're really better than the alternative (not having the computer say anything) |
| 02:31.37 | tensai | lots better than Dr. Watson. ick. |
| 02:32.00 | levi | Maquis: If you didn't get a segfault in that situation, you'd get a bunch of garbage printed out. |
| 02:32.20 | Maquis | yes... |
| 02:32.25 | findlay | I like kdevelop's graphical implementation of gdb, where it tells you what line you're on and what the current values on memory are |
| 02:32.38 | levi | Yeah, graphical frontends for gdb are nice. |
| 02:32.41 | Maquis | but in other cases, it could be very ugly... |
| 02:32.42 | tensai | levi: what happened to me was I was stomping on my own data. it would crash at a different spot every time. |
| 02:32.45 | levi | ddd is fun. |
| 02:32.46 | findlay | at least it's either a crutch for weak minded coders, or an impartial tool |
| 02:32.55 | Maquis | tensai: fun :) |
| 02:32.59 | levi | tensai: Yeah, I've had those too. I think all C programmers have. |
| 02:33.14 | tensai | and I was close to the deadline |
| 02:33.18 | tensai | of course |
| 02:33.37 | levi | Maquis: Yeah, if you write to invalid pointers without memory protection, you can easily crash the entire machine. |
| 02:33.50 | Maquis | :) |
| 02:33.58 | Maquis | wonder if that's what's wrong with my box..... |
| 02:34.07 | tensai | for reference, see Windows 9x, Mac OS <10 and Netware |
| 02:34.52 | findlay | is there a gdb frontend for vim? |
| 02:35.30 | levi | Maquis: Doubtful, since Linux does have memory protection. |
| 02:37.43 | levi | findlay: Don't think so, but there's an emacs one. :) |
| 02:38.40 | Maquis | :) |
| 02:39.23 | levi | Emacs is cool. I'm slowly re-learning it. |
| 02:39.40 | levi | Hopefully I can maintain some level of proficiency with vim and emacs at the same time. |
| 02:39.48 | findlay | I like vim's UI better |
| 02:42.40 | findlay | remembering win-98, gnome, and KDE is bad enough |
| 02:42.45 | levi | I'm currently far more proficient with vim, but I don't have a strong preference. |
| 02:43.09 | goozbach | levi: I tried that once |
| 02:43.10 | levi | Anyway, I need to get home. |
| 02:43.29 | goozbach | found all sorts of jjjjjjjjkkkkkklllllll invading files edited with emacs |
| 02:43.41 | goozbach | too big of a paridigm shift for me I think |
| 02:43.54 | goozbach | lots of :wq's as well |
| 02:44.12 | findlay | and :bd's probably |
| 02:45.05 | Maquis | goozbach: that's why i gave up openoffice |
| 02:45.28 | Maquis | i'm sticking with LaTeX now... don't have to worry about random things invading my files |
| 02:45.40 | findlay | openoffice, latex is all the openoffice I need (: |
| 02:45.46 | Maquis | :) |
| 02:46.03 | Maquis | except when profs refuse to post anything in non-doc format |
| 02:46.17 | findlay | but Maquis openoffice files are just a zipped tree of xml files |
| 02:46.38 | findlay | you can unzip them and poke around inside |
| 02:46.42 | Maquis | (a problem i *only* really have with cs profs... my religion and other profs are perfectly happy to post files in xml |
| 02:46.42 | tensai | yes, but Word files are not |
| 02:46.49 | Maquis | findlay: word files... .docs |
| 02:47.21 | Maquis | my cs profs post everything in .doc format... |
| 02:47.29 | findlay | ha |
| 02:47.37 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@128.187.234.118) |
| 02:47.38 | Maquis | anyway, back to work... |
| 02:47.41 | Maquis | need to get this done |
| 02:47.52 | *** join/#utah mrpull-hoary (~jake@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 02:53.29 | tene | I *really* need to learn more about vim. |
| 02:53.51 | goozbach | vimtutor |
| 02:53.54 | goozbach | and vim.org |
| 02:54.01 | tensai | how's this for a genius maneuver |
| 02:54.04 | tensai | iptables -P INPUT DROP |
| 02:54.07 | tensai | iptables -F INPUT |
| 02:54.44 | tene | Ooo... |
| 02:55.02 | tene | mainly I just need pratice. |
| 02:55.45 | tensai | luckily that one is only 15 feet away |
| 02:56.15 | mrpull-hoary | i did something similar 15 miles away.... |
| 02:56.17 | mrpull-hoary | once |
| 02:57.01 | tene | get someone to hard-reboot it. |
| 02:57.06 | tene | "push the button" |
| 02:57.15 | tensai | co-worker of mine did something like that from 450 miles away |
| 02:57.48 | tensai | luckily we pay somebody to be on call just for such an emergency |
| 02:59.03 | mrpull-hoary | it is a good idea to befriend the ops at the data center |
| 02:59.41 | tensai | in this case, I am the data center |
| 02:59.50 | tensai | both cases I mean |
| 03:01.08 | goozbach | always at an iptables -P ACCEPT; iptables -F |
| 03:01.25 | goozbach | I've only done that one a couple times before I learned my lesson |
| 03:02.29 | tene | you could always rig up a script to run if the network drops. |
| 03:02.46 | tensai | oops. I built a box and didn't partition off any swap space. |
| 03:02.52 | tensai | good thing I'm using LVM |
| 03:07.40 | goozbach | # at now + 15 minutes |
| 03:07.49 | goozbach | > service iptables stop |
| 03:07.56 | goozbach | > ctrl-d |
| 03:08.13 | goozbach | then start playing with your iptables rules |
| 03:08.43 | goozbach | if you break it, wait 15 minutes, and *poof* things are back to normal |
| 03:11.40 | tensai | -bash: service: command not found, you pink beanie lover |
| 03:11.42 | tensai | ??? |
| 03:13.14 | findlay | howcome the math text images from every website but wikipedia look awful? |
| 03:14.26 | findlay | how hard would it be to extend HTML to markup arbitrarily complex mathematics as good as TeX? |
| 03:15.10 | findlay | you'd think that by now it would be possible |
| 03:16.48 | goozbach | # at now + 15 minutes |
| 03:17.10 | goozbach | > `insert your firewall disable code here` |
| 03:17.18 | goozbach | > ctrl-d |
| 03:17.25 | goozbach | how's that? |
| 03:18.21 | findlay | I tried to restart a boot level service a few days ago |
| 03:18.25 | findlay | it was pretty fun |
| 03:19.40 | findlay | about halfway through the monitor started showing random colorful tesselating paterns |
| 03:20.00 | mrpull-hoary | findlay... isn't there a MathML? |
| 03:20.18 | findlay | but will firefox render it? |
| 03:21.40 | mrpull-hoary | i'd guess.... no |
| 03:22.35 | mrpull-hoary | hrrmmm... there is a w3c page for it. |
| 03:25.19 | findlay | it would be nice if wikipedia, etc. could use it |
| 03:27.02 | mrpull-hoary | http://www.mozilla.org/projects/mathml/demo/texvsmml.xhtml |
| 03:27.56 | mrpull-hoary | doesn't look too hot for me, but I ignored the warning about the needed fonts |
| 03:28.09 | findlay | cool, yeah |
| 03:28.21 | findlay | CM is a very elegant font |
| 03:34.23 | brailsmt_ | funny comments on the slashdot poll today... |
| 03:41.53 | Maquis | AAAIIIIGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!! |
| 03:43.53 | Maquis | brailsmt_: in cs324, all of our projects that involved hex manipulation involved 0xDEADBEEF |
| 03:45.49 | findlay | aha, <ctrl>+<tab> switches tabs in firefox |
| 03:45.59 | findlay | one less reason to grab for the mouse |
| 03:46.41 | Maquis | findlay: or alt-1 alt-2, alt-3, etc... |
| 03:46.52 | Maquis | at least on my machine |
| 03:51.27 | mrpull-hoary | <ALT>+1, 2,3,etc works as well (for me) |
| 03:52.52 | tensai | Maquis: that's so awesome. how did I not know about that? |
| 03:53.07 | Maquis | tensai: i have no idea... |
| 03:53.28 | Maquis | actually, it's not so much that they're ignoring it... it's just that the items waiting on the semaphore aren't getting the signal... |
| 03:55.24 | goozbach | I stumbled upon it by accident |
| 03:55.38 | goozbach | the alt-1 firefox thing |
| 03:55.42 | Maquis | me too |
| 03:57.38 | findlay | <alt>+n is the same as irssi |
| 03:58.01 | findlay | conventional probably |
| 03:58.03 | Maquis | i think that might be how i discovered it... |
| 04:02.52 | mrpull-hoary | my favorite firefox trick is right-clicking a search field and adding a keyword bookmark |
| 04:03.28 | mrpull-hoary | i have a couple for dnsstuff.com |
| 04:07.01 | mrpull-hoary | wiki <topic> is a good shortcut too |
| 04:34.25 | Maquis | grrrrrr... |
| 04:38.02 | LeviHome | Maquis: eh? |
| 04:43.24 | goozbach | like a little racoon I can't let go of the shiny thing and go about my way |
| 04:43.27 | *** join/#utah markl_ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 04:44.00 | goozbach | in other words I found a new web-comic and have been reading the back-issues and won't stop till i'm all caught up. |
| 04:50.00 | Maquis | i have something waiting on a semaphore |
| 04:50.04 | Maquis | then i signal the semaphore |
| 04:50.22 | Maquis | so, the thing waiting should get the signal |
| 04:50.25 | Maquis | but it doesn't |
| 04:50.28 | Maquis | and i don't know why |
| 04:52.49 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.192.70) |
| 04:56.52 | Maquis | what the????? |
| 04:56.54 | Maquis | [sekhmet cs345] gcc OS345.c |
| 04:56.54 | Maquis | gcc: Internal error: File size limit exceeded (program cc1) |
| 04:56.54 | Maquis | Please submit a full bug report. |
| 04:56.54 | Maquis | See <URL:http://bugs.gentoo.org/> for instructions. |
| 04:57.05 | Maquis | ?????????????????? |
| 04:57.27 | Maquis | i don't get it |
| 04:58.04 | tensai | sounds like a recursive #include |
| 04:58.25 | Maquis | i didn't change any #includes |
| 04:58.32 | Maquis | i changed 1 character |
| 04:58.54 | Maquis | and undoing that change didn't fix it |
| 04:59.10 | Maquis | the only thing i can think of is that firefox died and dumped a core, but i think i deleted it |
| 04:59.34 | Maquis | at least, i deleted the core file that appeared in the dir i was workign in |
| 04:59.50 | Maquis | but that shouldn't mess gcc up should it???? |
| 05:00.42 | tensai | did you try it again? |
| 05:00.52 | Maquis | i tried it again without the change that i had made... |
| 05:00.54 | Maquis | and it did the same thing |
| 05:01.04 | Maquis | and i had already removed the core file before attempting to use gcc |
| 05:01.19 | tensai | http://www.zmonkey.org/~tensai/snapshot2.png |
| 05:01.25 | tensai | look in the lower right hand corner |
| 05:02.14 | Maquis | ????? |
| 05:02.14 | tensai | how about gcc -E OS345.c? |
| 05:02.23 | tensai | careful, that'll make a lot of output |
| 05:02.30 | tensai | Maquis: it's the quicktime icon |
| 05:02.34 | Maquis | oh... |
| 05:03.00 | Maquis | ok... i ran that... what'd it do? |
| 05:03.06 | Maquis | it looks like it just printed out my files |
| 05:04.08 | Maquis | but if i run gcc -E OS345.c > foo.txt, it gives me that error again |
| 05:05.13 | Maquis | tensai: is that normal for it to work, but then fail when redirected to a file? |
| 05:05.31 | tensai | not that I would expect |
| 05:05.46 | Maquis | ummm... ok.... |
| 05:06.10 | Maquis | i just checked to make sure it wasn't a fluke.. |
| 05:06.26 | Maquis | it still works just outputting to the terminal, and fails when redirected... |
| 05:06.49 | Maquis | my filesystem's not full |
| 05:06.52 | Maquis | so, it's not that... |
| 05:08.39 | Maquis | ooh... |
| 05:08.49 | Maquis | gcc dumps a core each time i try it... |
| 05:08.51 | Maquis | is that helpful? |
| 05:09.16 | tensai | sounds bad. pull up the core and run a backtrace. |
| 05:09.26 | tensai | gdb $(which gcc) core |
| 05:09.33 | Maquis | ooh... |
| 05:09.36 | Maquis | more interesting things |
| 05:09.47 | Maquis | the file that i tried to pipe to exists in the folder |
| 05:09.52 | Maquis | so i tried to open it with vim |
| 05:09.53 | tensai | so quicktime works but iTunes just quits with no errors |
| 05:09.53 | Maquis | and i got: |
| 05:10.04 | Maquis | [sekhmet cs345] vim foo.txt |
| 05:10.04 | Maquis | Vim: Caught deadly signal XFSZ |
| 05:10.04 | Maquis | Vim: Finished. |
| 05:10.04 | Maquis | zsh: file size limit exceeded (core dumped) vim foo.txt |
| 05:10.15 | goozbach | you know what kills me? |
| 05:10.23 | Maquis | what? |
| 05:10.23 | brigham | what is foo? |
| 05:10.29 | tensai | |forget what |
| 05:10.29 | brigham | lemme take care of that for you |
| 05:10.40 | Maquis | and now ls gives weird output |
| 05:10.49 | goozbach | fans of a webcomic complaining to the artist about something that the artist did or did not do |
| 05:10.54 | tensai | Maquis: this is all starting to sound really bad |
| 05:11.07 | goozbach | "why didn't this charater do that?" |
| 05:11.21 | Maquis | tensai: is it time to see if a reboot makes everything magically go back the way it's supposed to? |
| 05:11.25 | tensai | any comic in particular? |
| 05:11.29 | goozbach | "you should have translated this phrase this way" |
| 05:11.33 | Maquis | (ls isn't lining up... the files are all over the place |
| 05:11.48 | goozbach | well I've seen it with many webcomics. |
| 05:12.00 | Maquis | but only weird in that particular terminal |
| 05:12.01 | tensai | Maquis: it sounds like fs corruption to me. might be a good idea to run an fsck |
| 05:12.05 | Maquis | other terminals still work |
| 05:12.08 | goozbach | the latest incarnation is www.somethingpositive.net |
| 05:12.22 | tensai | does gcc work in the other terminals too? |
| 05:12.24 | goozbach | may not be sutable for all audencies |
| 05:12.36 | Maquis | tensai: yes... |
| 05:12.38 | goozbach | pg13-R |
| 05:12.39 | Maquis | what does that mean? |
| 05:12.47 | hans | AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH |
| 05:12.52 | tensai | your terminal got b0rked |
| 05:13.03 | tensai | at least it's not your hard drive |
| 05:13.03 | Maquis | how did that cause gcc to have errors? |
| 05:13.16 | tensai | I have no idea honestly |
| 05:15.46 | Maquis | so that people don't think i'm crazy: http://students.cs.byu.edu/~sharmahd/weirdness.jpg |
| 05:16.46 | hans | type reset |
| 05:16.52 | tensai | did you dump any non-ascii data to the terminal? that can cause havok |
| 05:17.24 | Maquis | tensai: i don't think so |
| 05:17.28 | hans | ~lart norton, notes, vnc on xp, blah blah blah blah |
| 05:19.39 | tensai | somebody just yelled in the background on the news. caught the anchors off guard. |
| 05:21.09 | tensai | wow. my wife's cat just up and died tonight. |
| 05:22.54 | LeviHome | Maquis: can you ls -l the foo.txt? |
| 05:23.03 | hans | tensai: that might have been me |
| 05:23.07 | hans | grr |
| 05:23.22 | tensai | hans: you killed my wife's cat?!? |
| 05:23.32 | hans | no, I might have been the yeller they heard. |
| 05:23.34 | hans | old yeller. |
| 05:23.39 | hans | curmudgeon, all that. ;-) |
| 05:23.51 | hans | but hey, if you want to blame the cat on me, it might help me feel better. sinister even. |
| 05:24.27 | LeviHome | hans: You're going left, eh? |
| 05:24.30 | tensai | pretty amazing if you can do that to a cat in Oregon |
| 05:29.28 | LeviHome | Heh, I haven't read SP in ages. |
| 05:33.22 | Maquis | LeviHome: -rw-r--r-- 1 erins users 0 Mar 1 22:07 foo.txt |
| 05:33.43 | LeviHome | Hmm. Can you vi it from another terminal? |
| 05:34.21 | Maquis | LeviHome: well, it appears to be empty |
| 05:34.36 | Maquis | (which says a lot when you take into account the fact that it was "too large" |
| 05:35.01 | LeviHome | Well, it sounds to me like there are Bad Things going on in the bowels of your computer. |
| 05:35.32 | LeviHome | Are things working right now that you've reset the terminal, or are you still getting bizarre problems? |
| 05:35.43 | Maquis | LeviHome: that's good... sounds somewhat like what Newsome and amcnabb thought when they looked at it today... |
| 05:35.52 | Maquis | things seem to be working fine on a new term |
| 05:36.00 | Maquis | so, we'll just keep going until it crashes again... |
| 05:36.14 | Maquis | (the problems earlier today were completely different problems) |
| 05:36.55 | LeviHome | Bad RAM can cause random programs to die, or do bad things. |
| 05:37.10 | Maquis | that seems to be the diagnosis at the current moment |
| 05:37.18 | Maquis | although it's been passing memtest86 |
| 05:37.23 | LeviHome | Hmm. |
| 05:37.34 | Maquis | amcnabb said that i should stick a winXP partition on and try some other tests there |
| 05:37.38 | Maquis | including one that toshiba has... |
| 05:37.44 | goozbach | almost done |
| 05:37.46 | LeviHome | That might be a good idea. |
| 05:37.58 | tensai | oh, this is the posessed laptop |
| 05:38.03 | LeviHome | Because weird stuff like that should not happen. |
| 05:40.34 | Maquis | LeviHome: the plan is to do that once i'm done with this project (which is due tonight at midnight, and probably won't be done til sometime tomorrow |
| 05:40.38 | Maquis | ) |
| 05:41.09 | LeviHome | Well, better get crackin'! |
| 05:41.16 | Maquis | i know |
| 05:41.19 | LeviHome | Signal those semaphores! |
| 05:41.21 | Maquis | i'm just stumped by a number of things |
| 05:41.31 | Maquis | i got it to signal finally |
| 05:46.16 | LeviHome | What's the problem now? |
| 05:57.22 | Maquis | it's not doing what it's supposed to do |
| 05:58.40 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (~xbmodder@adsl-66-127-52-251.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 05:58.44 | LeviHome | Maquis: Ah, that makes it all clear. Your error is on line 234. :P |
| 05:59.04 | hans | actually, it looks like line 149, if you look closely. |
| 05:59.05 | xbmodder_lappy | really cool picture (i swear to god): http://xbmodder.us/sac.jpg (its 6.6mb) |
| 06:04.38 | scott_ | was the surplus sale today? |
| 06:14.01 | Maquis | LeviHome: uh huh.. |
| 06:14.13 | Maquis | i think the atm is refusing to release the bank |
| 06:15.03 | Maquis | (if that's on either of those two lines, i'll be laughing my head off over here |
| 06:15.05 | Maquis | ) |
| 06:15.22 | stuporgl1e | Surplus was today |
| 06:16.53 | LeviHome | anything good there? |
| 06:17.11 | stuporgl1e | In the "nice" man page, it says rougly "nice [level] utility [options]". Can this utility be any program I want? |
| 06:18.24 | LeviHome | Yeah, it sets the nice level of the program it executes. |
| 06:18.44 | stuporgl1e | cool, thanks |
| 06:19.40 | Maquis | stuporgl1e: /me left a message for you... check your /msgs |
| 06:22.39 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (~xbmodder@adsl-66-127-52-251.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 06:22.41 | xbmodder_lappy | cool eh? |
| 06:24.08 | stuporgl1e | How do I check messages? |
| 06:26.28 | *** join/#utah levi_ (~levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 06:27.03 | LeviHome | So much for that irc client. |
| 06:31.13 | *** join/#utah jordo1 (~jordo1@c-24-10-177-152.client.comcast.net) |
| 06:32.25 | jordo1 | Anyone have any good ideas about which DNS is good to use instead of BIND 9? |
| 06:33.48 | goozbach | djbdns has a strong following |
| 06:42.00 | *** join/#utah jnielsendotnet (jn@c-24-2-72-123.client.comcast.net) |
| 06:44.21 | jordo1 | I need something that will be real simple to configure. Something that doesn't require too much understanding of how the system works. |
| 06:45.22 | *** join/#utah fishyfire (~fishyfire@65.105.158.130.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 06:46.39 | Maquis | ~logs |
| 06:46.40 | ibot | apt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz |
| 06:50.50 | goozbach | 35% of all people in this channel regularly check the logs* |
| 06:51.24 | goozbach | *data from the federal buereau of making up statistics |
| 07:01.45 | Maquis | |lart goozbach |
| 07:03.13 | LeviHome | Yeah, and I'm still here stuck reading more and more Something Positive strips. |
| 07:04.11 | LeviHome | I don't recommend it, by the way. It's addicting, and bad for you too. |
| 07:05.24 | goozbach | I'm finally to dec 04 |
| 07:05.34 | goozbach | gotta finish before I go hoome |
| 07:05.38 | LeviHome | Heh. |
| 07:06.00 | LeviHome | S*P is quite... off-color. |
| 07:06.15 | Maquis | well, then i probably wouldn't enjoy it anyways... |
| 07:06.45 | Maquis | now, the question is, why are you two reading something, and commenting that it's quite off-color at the same time? |
| 07:07.10 | LeviHome | Because it's also hilarious. |
| 07:09.08 | Maquis | uh huh....... |
| 07:09.28 | goozbach | better than hilarious |
| 07:09.49 | goozbach | it's going into the daily reads category |
| 07:12.07 | findlay | they better fix the colors on their web pages, or I guess I don't understand why you can be stuck so long reading them if the colors aren't right |
| 07:12.29 | LeviHome | What colors are you referring to? |
| 07:12.41 | findlay | precisely the ones that are off |
| 07:13.10 | LeviHome | It looks like black, white, red, and yellow to me. |
| 07:13.27 | Maquis | findlay: it looks like they're a tad slow... |
| 07:13.38 | Maquis | the colors must be getting to them... :) |
| 07:13.52 | findlay | hey, Maquis gets one of my jokes |
| 07:14.00 | findlay | and this time before everyone else (: |
| 07:14.02 | LeviHome | Oh, heh. Off-color. Right. |
| 07:14.13 | Maquis | :) |
| 07:14.19 | Maquis | i wasn't the one who was confused!!!!! |
| 07:14.29 | goozbach | the first to get a joke? |
| 07:14.49 | Maquis | goozbach: i'm normally the one going "???? i don't get it" |
| 07:15.17 | findlay | of course the inflection may be a little different than I meant, but nice all the same |
| 07:15.46 | goozbach | I can even point to the exact minute 00:13 |
| 07:16.49 | findlay | I usually use some kind of delibrate contradiction of meaning to distract away from the main point by removing one aspect into a humerous context |
| 07:19.01 | xbmodder_lappy | i hate my hormones sometimes |
| 07:19.42 | findlay | but hormones are nothing but chemicals, and chemicals are nothing but leptons and hadrons |
| 07:19.54 | findlay | electrons and nucleons specifically |
| 07:20.11 | findlay | and those are nothing but elementary quanta |
| 07:20.20 | findlay | which are different varieties of dirt |
| 07:20.32 | xbmodder_lappy | hah |
| 07:20.33 | LeviHome | xbmodder_lappy: Why do you hate a particular arrangement of elementary quanta?! |
| 07:20.37 | *** part/#utah jordo1 (~jordo1@c-24-10-177-152.client.comcast.net) |
| 07:20.39 | findlay | having 17 arbitrary quantum properties |
| 07:20.54 | xbmodder_lappy | they drive you crazy |
| 07:21.07 | xbmodder_lappy | findlay, your a comedian and a genius? |
| 07:21.14 | findlay | which has to do somehow with the toe |
| 07:21.17 | findlay | ~toe |
| 07:21.18 | ibot | from memory, toe is the Theory Of Everything or The Omniferous Elixer |
| 07:21.33 | findlay | whatever ibot, thanks |
| 07:21.37 | xbmodder_lappy | findlay, ummm do women like your persona? |
| 07:22.48 | LeviHome | #utah would not be a very good place to try to pick up women, so why would it matter? |
| 07:23.01 | xbmodder_lappy | LeviHome, i think findlay has a life |
| 07:23.15 | LeviHome | No doubt he does. |
| 07:23.27 | findlay | does that refer somehow to ephemeral kinds of intellect? |
| 07:23.38 | findlay | lol |
| 07:23.45 | findlay | no life over here |
| 07:23.48 | LeviHome | A life filled with classical music, mathematics, and particle physics. |
| 07:24.17 | findlay | which occasionally gets spilled into #utah |
| 07:24.39 | xbmodder_lappy | heh |
| 07:24.50 | xbmodder_lappy | and remember the humor |
| 07:25.08 | LeviHome | Better that than teen angst and failed attempts to impress girls by stalking them. |
| 07:25.32 | xbmodder_lappy | our very own bash.org quote: http://bash.org/?486246 |
| 07:25.41 | xbmodder_lappy | levi, whom did i stalk? |
| 07:26.32 | findlay | I guess all of my relationships have been nothing ever more than ephemeral |
| 07:27.08 | LeviHome | The attempts to place stuff in a girl's locker were sufficiently stalkeresque. |
| 07:28.05 | xbmodder_lappy | NO, it was stalkesque |
| 07:28.33 | Maquis | exactly |
| 07:28.36 | findlay | what are you up to now xbmodder_lappy with your girl conniving? |
| 07:28.52 | xbmodder_lappy | nothing |
| 07:28.57 | findlay | ha |
| 07:29.01 | xbmodder_lappy | i mean it was not |
| 07:29.07 | xbmodder_lappy | findlay, taking a break |
| 07:29.58 | xbmodder_lappy | omfg |
| 07:29.59 | LeviHome | Well then. |
| 07:30.04 | xbmodder_lappy | heh |
| 07:34.25 | xbmodder_lappy | one more day of being hated by everyone. one more day of being hated by the people i've loved just another day as scum of the earth |
| 07:35.32 | goozbach | yay!!! jan 05 |
| 07:35.38 | xbmodder_lappy | what? |
| 07:36.00 | LeviHome | I'm going backward. I'm on Nov 1 04 |
| 07:36.09 | xbmodder_lappy | cool |
| 07:36.11 | goozbach | you read correctly YAY!!! jan 05 |
| 07:36.18 | xbmodder_lappy | what about it? |
| 07:36.25 | goozbach | LeviHome: how do you follow the story that way? |
| 07:36.54 | goozbach | yay!! <- I feel joy |
| 07:37.05 | goozbach | Jan 05 <- I've reached this date |
| 07:37.15 | goozbach | ^^ the reason I feel joy |
| 07:37.20 | LeviHome | goozbach: Like watching that film where the guy had no short term memory and had to figure out who killed someone. |
| 07:37.41 | goozbach | not familiar with that one |
| 07:38.13 | LeviHome | It was pretty interesting. Can't remember the name, though. |
| 07:39.12 | LeviHome | Memento. |
| 07:39.30 | xbmodder_lappy | mori |
| 07:39.35 | xbmodder_lappy | memento mori |
| 07:39.42 | xbmodder_lappy | remember death |
| 07:39.56 | LeviHome | No, just Memento. |
| 07:40.00 | xbmodder_lappy | no |
| 07:40.06 | xbmodder_lappy | just saying |
| 07:40.12 | xbmodder_lappy | remember you will die |
| 07:40.36 | LeviHome | That's nice, but I'm talking about a movie. |
| 07:43.43 | Newsome | Clean Slate |
| 07:44.06 | LeviHome | That one too, but I meant Memento. |
| 07:44.19 | xbmodder_lappy | hah |
| 07:44.47 | LeviHome | Memento actually plays the story out in reverse, at least superficially. |
| 07:45.51 | xbmodder_lappy | i am going to use big words like visa-vi visa-vi if you say visa-vi a couple times in a loop it sounds cool... like a song.. visa-vii visa-vii visa-vii visa-vii visa-vii |
| 07:55.34 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 07:59.21 | LeviHome | visa-vi is not a word. |
| 07:59.29 | LeviHome | Perhaps you meant vis a vis? |
| 07:59.51 | LeviHome | Anyway, I've finally made myself close the S*P window and the Memento plot summary, and now I'm going to bed. |
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| 08:03.17 | goozbach | LeviHome: help! |
| 08:03.22 | goozbach | I can't do either |
| 08:03.45 | goozbach | I'm at feb 05 now |
| 08:03.51 | goozbach | just a month left |
| 08:12.26 | xbmodder_lappy | major-skillz |
| 08:12.31 | xbmodder_lappy | FP on ./ |
| 08:12.35 | xbmodder_lappy | 3rd time |
| 08:26.37 | goozbach | and just think... it means absolutly nothing in the greater scheme of things. |
| 08:26.56 | goozbach | I guess it's something to put on a resume |
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| 14:41.38 | bonez41 | has mac been around lately? |
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| 15:58.28 | sjansen-treo | whitr shirt, red food, you can guess the rest |
| 15:59.01 | sjansen-treo | somewhere out there there's a law of physics laughing at me |
| 15:59.02 | bonez41 | what's a faraday cage? |
| 15:59.34 | tensai | bonez41: ever seen the grill on the front of our microwave? that's a faraday cage to prevent microwaves from escaping. |
| 15:59.56 | tensai | s/our/your/ |
| 16:00.49 | bonez41 | ah..........now I know...very cool...our microwave died..I think it's a blown fuse, but I can't see where a fuse on it might be...I'll have to tear into ours some evening with my boys... |
| 16:01.26 | bonez41 | we have the deluxe...big old sears kenmore model..biggest one they sold when we married 16 years ago.....doe microwaves burn out, or just blow a few now and then? |
| 16:01.37 | sjansen-treo | just be sure to leave it unplugged for a long time before |
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| 16:02.00 | sjansen-treo | mighty nasty capacitors in some of them |
| 16:02.21 | bonez41 | really? big capacitors? like in a television? |
| 16:02.42 | tensai | it's a physics principal discovered by, wait for it... Michael Faraday. Waves can't pass through openings smaller than their amplitude. If you make a cage out of small holes, the waves can't go anywhere. |
| 16:03.45 | bonez41 | I doubt Mr. Faraday would even convince my mother..she is sure one will get one's brain fried being around a cell phone or microwave oven......;) |
| 16:03.53 | tensai | the holes in a microwave grill are about 1/50th the size of a microwave. It's overkill but better safe than sorry. |
| 16:03.57 | bonez41 | so she goes without the benefits of mw cooking |
| 16:04.24 | tensai | just for fun I put my laptop in the microwave and closed the door. Totally lost my wireless connection. |
| 16:04.45 | tensai | then I had to clean spaghetti off the bottom... |
| 16:04.58 | bonez41 | really...so no power to the MW..just to see if the screen in there would kill the signal? |
| 16:05.17 | bonez41 | good way to show how it contains the waves.... |
| 16:05.31 | tensai | yup. as soon as I cracked the door open it picked right back up. |
| 16:06.24 | tensai | somebody makes wallpaper will tiny little wires in it. makes a faraday cage around your room. |
| 16:11.42 | bonez41 | I bet that's mentioned in "Conspiracy Theory" with what's his name...... |
| 16:12.12 | bonez41 | or with Brill in Enemy of the State |
| 16:12.50 | tene | bleh... |
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| 16:22.55 | hans | gooood morning |
| 16:23.29 | hans | So work got me a cell phone. I am utterly and completely lost - who knew these things could be so complicated? |
| 16:24.15 | hans | I understand this phone supports midi and mp3 ringtones, and I imagine I can put my own images on for the background. (the included ring tones and images are unimpressive) |
| 16:24.59 | hans | but for all my googling last night I still have no clue HOW to get those things to the cell phone - not even if I were using windows. Can anyone point me in the right direction or give me keywords to google for? it's a Motorola v180 |
| 16:29.20 | Jayce^ | usually they are trying to make you use their wap interface to buy ones |
| 16:29.22 | jnielsendotnet | if the phone has a browser on it you can go to www.3gforfree.com.. but that doesn't help you get _your_ tones and images on it. |
| 16:29.35 | Jayce^ | but look for a usb cable, that's best |
| 16:29.47 | Jayce^ | mine has bluetooth too, I just transfer with that |
| 16:29.55 | Jayce^ | obex file transfer |
| 16:30.12 | Jayce^ | nice just cropping my own mp3 to what I want |
| 16:30.30 | hans | It has a usb port, and I can dig up a cable for it. Will it just be a mass storage device, or what? |
| 16:30.50 | hans | I don't know if it has bluetooth, but I'd need a bluetooth device on my pc to do that anyway, right? |
| 16:30.56 | tensai | you wish. it's never so simple with cell phone yahoos |
| 16:30.59 | tensai | http://bitpim.sourceforge.net/ |
| 16:31.10 | tensai | that may work. it sorta worked for my lg phone |
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| 16:31.58 | Jayce^ | right.. |
| 16:34.56 | xbmodder | sleepy! |
| 16:35.35 | brailsmt_ | anyone recommend a good imap mail reader? |
| 16:35.48 | jnielsendotnet | kmail |
| 16:37.31 | brailsmt_ | non-Gnome/non-KDE would be a big plus... |
| 16:37.44 | tensai | thunderbird, silpheed, mutt |
| 16:37.46 | brailsmt_ | i tried evolution... it has issues... |
| 16:37.55 | tensai | personally I use evolution |
| 16:38.17 | brailsmt_ | can mutt do ldap too? |
| 16:39.03 | hans | brailsmt_: see little brother |
| 16:39.10 | hans | thunderbird is solid |
| 16:39.28 | hans | mutt is ok, depending on the server and your needs (I wouldn't use it on an everyday basis without the header cache patch) |
| 16:39.32 | tensai | ooh, ooh. I know. Try Outlook Express! |
| 16:40.31 | hans | that's interesting. I have never gotten IMAP to work right in Outlook* |
| 16:41.00 | brailsmt_ | staying away from WINE is a huge plus... I have outlook with CrossOver office, but it has issues too... |
| 16:41.32 | jnielsendotnet | why no kde/gnome? just want to keep your footprint small? |
| 16:41.53 | hans | 2.6.11 |
| 16:41.58 | brailsmt_ | jnielsendotnet: this is a pentiumII 350MHz... |
| 16:42.23 | brailsmt_ | kde/gnome == bring system to its knees to open a window |
| 16:42.45 | jnielsendotnet | tensai: between the broken quoting and the security flaws, I have to agree |
| 16:42.54 | hans | brailsmt_: is fetchmail an option? |
| 16:43.07 | jnielsendotnet | although there is a lovely little program called "OE-Quotefix"... |
| 16:43.37 | jnielsendotnet | for a GUI mail app you can't get much lighter-weight than sylpheed |
| 16:44.12 | brailsmt_ | hans: this is the company's exchange server... i can do pop, or imap... |
| 16:44.16 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:44.39 | brailsmt_ | so fetchmail is an option, but i would prefer imap |
| 16:46.01 | jnielsendotnet | ...tightvnc to another machine that can run your preferred mail client |
| 16:46.52 | jnielsendotnet | I actually run kmail on a headless machine.. it just starts a VNC session automatically on boot |
| 16:47.00 | tensai | jnielsendotnet: my personal favorite is how when you send a message with only BCC recipients, it puts a header of "To: <Undisclosed-Recipients;>" in. |
| 16:47.12 | tensai | ~destroy Outlook Express |
| 16:47.13 | ibot | no |
| 16:47.17 | xbmodder_lappy | sure |
| 16:47.27 | xbmodder_lappy | ~destroy xbmodder |
| 16:47.29 | ibot | no |
| 16:47.29 | tensai | ~but, but, but... it's evil! |
| 16:47.37 | tensai | ~please? |
| 16:47.38 | ibot | Do I look like an information bitch, tensai? |
| 16:47.46 | xbmodder_lappy | wtf? |
| 16:47.51 | tensai | ~yes |
| 16:47.52 | ibot | You dont say! |
| 16:48.08 | xbmodder_lappy | wait how did ibot go insane? |
| 16:48.09 | jsmith | Free ice cream today -- birthday.yahoo.com. I wonder how long the line will be? |
| 16:49.41 | jnielsendotnet | ~ibot was never sane to begin with |
| 16:50.50 | xbmodder_lappy | more sane than thy |
| 16:51.09 | xbmodder_lappy | 30MB of music |
| 16:56.02 | levi | hans: The thing about cell phones... they don't want you to put your own images and ringtones on it. You're supposed to pay exorbitant prices to get the stupid things. |
| 16:56.31 | levi | Which is why every search for 'ring tones' gives you a zillion cheezy sites trying to sell them. |
| 16:56.47 | levi | And it's nearly impossible to find one that actually sounds like a phone ringing. |
| 16:57.43 | hans | I recognize that, but surely it can't be impossible, and surely there are enough geeks with cell phones that there ought to be something on the web telling me how |
| 16:58.22 | hans | I mean if cheezy site 3125 can sell me a ring tone it's obviously not a cell phone provider's monopoly |
| 16:58.46 | levi | Well, while I was messing around with crap like that on my old phone, I found a site that lets you upload files to it and then download them again via the standard method of 'buying' them, except you don't have to pay. |
| 16:59.07 | levi | That was a long time ago, though, and I don't remember what the site is. |
| 16:59.16 | hans | brailsmt_: if you only read it on that one computer, fethcmail will probably make you happiest. if you have to read in several places, then I'd bet sylpheed or thunderbird or mutt. |
| 16:59.49 | levi | The problem is that google is nearly useless for this, thanks to all the crap out there and the way it's all linked together. |
| 17:05.17 | Jayce^ | hans, if you have wap, you can do what I used to do.. |
| 17:05.25 | Jayce^ | just put the file on your server |
| 17:05.34 | Jayce^ | then all wap browsers have a 'enter url' field.. |
| 17:05.53 | Jayce^ | just put an easy name on the file, so you are fighting with the textpad forever :) |
| 17:06.01 | brailsmt_ | hans: i need to read from here and at home for the days when i work from home... |
| 17:06.28 | brailsmt_ | i htink i will look into mutt... i really like mutt, i didn't thin it could do t he imap and ldap though... |
| 17:06.42 | brailsmt_ | but it can |
| 17:06.47 | hans | brailsmt_: fetchmail loses some of its appeal, however you can leave the messages on the server |
| 17:06.58 | hans | yeah, if mutt plays nicely with your server |
| 17:07.09 | tensai | brailsmt_: there are a few imap sync programs. they'll make a local maildir tree copy of your mail |
| 17:07.29 | tensai | doesn't help for ldap though |
| 17:08.43 | hans | lbdb does bring ldap to mutt. It's probably a matter of how much you like mutt though - you might find thunderbird just works and is less hassle |
| 17:10.04 | brailsmt_ | i am using thunderbird right now, and it just seems to be lacking... |
| 17:10.13 | hans | in what? |
| 17:10.21 | hans | what are you looking for? |
| 17:10.42 | brailsmt_ | like it doesn't automatically show new email in my folders, i have to click on the folder, and then it will say I have 3 new messages... |
| 17:11.04 | hans | just a settting. |
| 17:11.14 | brailsmt_ | i can't get it to do anything other than play sound when a message comes in... |
| 17:11.45 | brailsmt_ | i would really like to use osd_cat to display the sender and subject when a new message comes in... |
| 17:11.47 | tene | ~lart me for being sick |
| 17:12.03 | brailsmt_ | hans: which setting? I have it selected to check for mail every 5 minutes... |
| 17:12.14 | brailsmt_ | and it does, but only for my INBOX |
| 17:12.29 | hans | right-click the folder, properties |
| 17:12.34 | hans | "Check this folder for new messages" |
| 17:13.50 | brailsmt_ | ahh... |
| 17:13.57 | brailsmt_ | that is my biggest gripe.. |
| 17:14.06 | brailsmt_ | the notification would be really nice... |
| 17:16.29 | tene | find a buffer somewhere to overflow with a sound file. |
| 17:17.21 | brailsmt_ | the themes for thunderbird are lacking... *sigh* |
| 17:18.49 | tene | how... boring. |
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| 17:22.50 | hans | the phone does wap, though I'm not clear whether it's extra to do |
| 17:23.18 | hans | I think I saw the buzzword sms too, same ignorance. |
| 17:23.31 | hans | (I'm trying to get phone details from the guy who ordered the plan) |
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| 17:24.01 | tensai | imnsho, add-on ring tones and backgrounds are a waste. I hate annoying rings and I look at my wallpaper so seldom it could be goatse and I wouldn't notice. |
| 17:24.04 | vontrapp | ~lart hans |
| 17:24.31 | tensai | the current scheme feels like a total rip off to me |
| 17:24.37 | vontrapp | tensai: that's why you put on not annoying rings |
| 17:24.42 | vontrapp | like erasure's ghost |
| 17:24.49 | tensai | musical rings == annoying |
| 17:25.04 | tensai | I want my phone to sound like a phone |
| 17:25.08 | hans | tensai: I need to get at least one NOT annoying ring on there, and might as well throw a decent background on there (the only not-lame option is a plain white background which really clashes with the black phone.) |
| 17:25.28 | hans | it doesn't have to be musical. it just has to be not annoying. none of the included rings qualifies. |
| 17:25.30 | goozbach | I have strongbadtechno as my ring tone |
| 17:25.30 | tensai | as defined by 40 years of tradition. tradition is everything! |
| 17:25.50 | vontrapp | hans: nicholas has a ringtone that sounds like those old fashioned type phones |
| 17:25.55 | Jayce^ | if tensai was a rich man.... |
| 17:26.01 | vontrapp | you know, with the bell on top |
| 17:26.10 | hans | yeah, that would be cool |
| 17:26.34 | tensai | mine has a few of those. that's what I use |
| 17:26.55 | vontrapp | brailsmt_: you awake? |
| 17:27.11 | tensai | yay. I love it when people just leave money and don't ask me silly questions. |
| 17:27.39 | vontrapp | brailsmt_: hans says to ask you about bikings trails in the area |
| 17:27.43 | emcnabb | http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/002057.html |
| 17:28.07 | goozbach | now if only all judges were that tough |
| 17:29.30 | brailsmt_ | vontrapp: i am awake |
| 17:30.13 | brailsmt_ | what are you looking for? hard, easy, in between... |
| 17:30.15 | vontrapp | i want a trail that goes up really high with a great view |
| 17:30.18 | vontrapp | harder |
| 17:30.23 | vontrapp | windy type stuff |
| 17:30.52 | brailsmt_ | my favorite is the Deer Creek South Fork trail up behind Timp |
| 17:31.24 | vontrapp | do you go up af canyon to get there? |
| 17:31.24 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 17:32.34 | brailsmt_ | www.utahmountainbiking.com/trails/deercrek.htm |
| 17:32.48 | brailsmt_ | www.utahmountainbiking.com/ in general is a really great site |
| 17:32.55 | brailsmt_ | vontrapp: yes |
| 17:33.27 | brailsmt_ | the best rails in the area are up there (IMO) |
| 17:33.43 | brailsmt_ | errr...trails |
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| 17:58.19 | SpecialK | ~lart Maquis |
| 18:02.10 | goozbach | sjansen and I just got into a gibberish fight |
| 18:02.43 | shadoi | how fun |
| 18:02.59 | hans | gibberish fight? do tell |
| 18:03.31 | fozz | Kind of hard to tell, I would think. |
| 18:03.44 | fozz | Goozbach said, "jshdfljh kjhsdlfjhuyrtjhkjdhf ksdfkjh ljkshdf." |
| 18:03.56 | fozz | sjansen replied, "kjsdfh sdjfgkuyew siuywerilkj." |
| 18:04.05 | fozz | And then, they knew where each other stood. |
| 18:04.15 | goozbach | that's exactly what happened |
| 18:04.40 | goozbach | the only problem was that sjansen thought I said: "sdsfalkjhs sddsiwnnv;onsdk" |
| 18:04.50 | goozbach | and he took exception to that |
| 18:05.00 | hans | i see. not nearly as exciting as what I thought. I thought you fought over the proper gibberification of Dante's Inferno. |
| 18:05.12 | hans | goozbach: was it a C++ exception? |
| 18:05.23 | fozz | Ahh. You're going to need to communicate your gibberish better. You might need to repeat yourself for sjansen from time to time. |
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| 18:05.58 | fozz | WELCOME TO #UTAH! |
| 18:06.02 | fozz | YEEE HAHAH! |
| 18:14.42 | levi | vontrapp: A group of guys from my office ride mtb trails together every week during the season. :) |
| 18:14.44 | brailsmt_ | who use the phrase "ten fold"?... |
| 18:14.50 | levi | Deer Creek South Fork is one of our favorites, too. |
| 18:15.03 | brailsmt_ | maybe "several orders of magnitude" would have conveyed your point without sounding idiotic... |
| 18:15.07 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 18:15.18 | levi | The White Stripes do. |
| 18:15.19 | hans | what's wrong with tenfold? |
| 18:15.30 | levi | Nothing's wrong with tenfold. |
| 18:15.40 | hans | my opinion as well |
| 18:15.43 | brailsmt_ | sounds dumb to me... |
| 18:16.01 | levi | Also, 'several orders of magnitude' is not at all equivalent to 'ten fold' |
| 18:16.23 | brailsmt_ | levi: depends if you mean literal or semantic... and it depends on your base... |
| 18:16.33 | hans | unless several == 10 |
| 18:16.57 | hans | well, that was wrong. several orders of magnitude == 1 base 10 |
| 18:17.25 | brailsmt_ | 100 is one order of magnitude greater than 10 |
| 18:17.29 | levi | In base 10, multiplying by 10 increases by one order of magnitude. |
| 18:17.47 | brailsmt_ | ... |
| 18:18.04 | brailsmt_ | levi: who set the constraint to base 10? :) |
| 18:18.04 | levi | one thousand fold would be several orders of magnitude. |
| 18:18.23 | levi | brailsmt_: Now who's sounding idiotic? |
| 18:18.44 | brailsmt_ | lol |
| 18:20.08 | brailsmt_ | well, 100 decimal in binary is several orders of magnitude greater than 10 decimal in binary... |
| 18:20.41 | hans | actually, isn't the order of magnitude basically the number of digits? |
| 18:20.49 | brailsmt_ | hans: yeah |
| 18:20.58 | brailsmt_ | in laymans terms |
| 18:21.06 | goozbach | who argues abt differences of orders of magnitide? |
| 18:21.09 | hans | so if you're in binary, 100 is one order of magnitude bigger than 10 |
| 18:21.19 | goozbach | :) |
| 18:21.35 | brailsmt_ | but 100 decimal in binary is not... |
| 18:21.50 | hans | " An order of magnitude is an exponential change of plus-or-minus 1 in the value of a quantity or unit. " |
| 18:21.56 | levi | But when someone says 'ten fold', they are implying base 10. |
| 18:22.09 | brailsmt_ | convert 100 to binary... and then it is several orders of binary magnitude larger... |
| 18:22.14 | mrpull | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:22.29 | levi | "Usually, orders of magnitude refers to a series of powers of ten; this article discusses the decimal scale." |
| 18:22.32 | brailsmt_ | no, it is english... |
| 18:22.40 | brailsmt_ | an english word |
| 18:22.54 | mrpull | that implies base 10? |
| 18:23.06 | mrpull | this is about the nerdiest argument i've witnessed in a long time :) |
| 18:23.14 | levi | brailsmt_: If you think 'ten fold' sounds stupid in conversation, how does switching to binary rate? |
| 18:23.25 | goozbach | heh |
| 18:23.32 | brailsmt_ | levi: as cool :) |
| 18:23.47 | levi | brailsmt_: Only if you don't want to be understood. Which is stupid. |
| 18:23.52 | brailsmt_ | maybe, i should have made the arguemtn on base 3... |
| 18:23.53 | levi | Idiotic, even. |
| 18:24.40 | mrpull | ~wiki ten |
| 18:24.46 | brailsmt_ | i wasn't being serious by the way... |
| 18:24.58 | mrpull | rats i broke wikipedia |
| 18:25.10 | mrpull | wiki: "Ten is the base of the decimal numeral system" |
| 18:25.27 | brailsmt_ | if you will read the previous comments, they all seemed pretty silly, so I thought I would try and add to the silliness... |
| 18:25.32 | mrpull | :-) |
| 18:25.34 | brailsmt_ | apparently it didn't work... |
| 18:25.52 | brailsmt_ | speaking of work... |
| 18:25.57 | levi | Well, you started off with an invalid criticism. You thought you could just get away with that? ;) |
| 18:26.26 | hans | levi: you read these: http://www.developerdotstar.com/mag/articles/reeves_design_main.html ? |
| 18:26.36 | brailsmt_ | i think my only mistake was using the word 'idiotic' instead of something less loaded... |
| 18:27.04 | brailsmt_ | is there a tutorial somewhere on querying an LDAP server? |
| 18:28.15 | levi | hans: Haven't read them yet. |
| 18:28.36 | hans | me either. on my list |
| 18:28.50 | hans | could be interesting it seems. or at least thought-provoking |
| 18:29.02 | hans | certainly is /. fodder provoking. |
| 18:31.43 | levi | Seems interesting so far. |
| 18:36.26 | hans | |roulette |
| 18:38.56 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 18:40.12 | brailsmt_ | sjansen: and there in the abyss PHP will find a bunch of aliens... |
| 18:40.13 | tensai | sjansen: the deepest depths called. they don't want your PHP. |
| 18:40.22 | Maquis | hahahaha |
| 18:42.10 | levi | sjansen: PHP isn't /that/ bad. |
| 18:42.15 | sjansen | I used to blame PHP developers. Now I'm starting to wonder if it isn't really there fault. I'm starting to think that PHP causes brain damage. |
| 18:43.25 | brailsmt_ | php has been shown to cause tumors in lab rats |
| 18:43.36 | levi | Nah. In PHP, doing the right thing is about as easy as it is in most scripting languages. Doing the wrong thing (for large designs, at least) is even easier, though. |
| 18:43.52 | jsmith | Amen, levi! |
| 18:44.20 | sjansen | So why do Python programmers so often produce better code than PHP programmers? |
| 18:44.57 | sjansen | We won't discuss Perl because obviously to create anything large in Perl you have to be intelligent and disciplined or will collapse and kill you. |
| 18:45.03 | levi | Python doesn't have the 'easy but wrong way' optimized. |
| 18:45.26 | sjansen | Or, so this is impossible in Python: |
| 18:45.35 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:45.35 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:45.35 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:45.35 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:45.52 | Maquis | ick... |
| 18:46.01 | Maquis | there are better ways to do that.... |
| 18:46.07 | sjansen | no kidding |
| 18:46.24 | bigdog_ut | actually for a foreach most dont do that though |
| 18:46.34 | sjansen | I know. |
| 18:46.42 | brailsmt_ | what is the 'dn' in LDAP? what is its purpose? |
| 18:46.44 | bigdog_ut | they would do another foreach on the $v |
| 18:46.44 | levi | The Python philosophy is that there should be one obvious way to do things, and it should be the right way. So, naturally, people tend to do things the right way. |
| 18:46.55 | sjansen | But I've seen alot more of that sort of stupdity reading PHP code than any other code. |
| 18:47.25 | bigdog_ut | most people that learn python have some knowledge of coding and some theory about it |
| 18:47.29 | levi | What's the $k=>$v bit? |
| 18:47.36 | bigdog_ut | whereas php are script kiddies in my option |
| 18:47.39 | tensai | brailsmt_: dn is the distinguished name. it uniquely identifies an object in the tree |
| 18:47.42 | bigdog_ut | opinion |
| 18:48.39 | sjansen | levi: Extracting a key and value from the hash one at a time. Followed by repeatedly manually extracting specific values with hard coded keys. |
| 18:48.47 | bigdog_ut | is so easy to get a php book and crack it open...there are some many examples of bad programming out there in php it is unreal |
| 18:49.23 | sjansen | But you can only place so much of the blame with the community. |
| 18:49.29 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Not all PHP programmers are script-kiddies. |
| 18:49.50 | bigdog_ut | yeah, i know jsmith there are exceptions |
| 18:49.53 | sjansen | Ulitmately, much of it belongs with the designers. I mean how long did it take PHP to get decent DB abstraction? And it's still not part of the core language. |
| 18:50.12 | bigdog_ut | they do have dbx as part of the core language |
| 18:50.20 | bigdog_ut | it is okay..i use it alot |
| 18:50.45 | bigdog_ut | but the majority that i come in contact with are |
| 18:50.48 | levi | Well, PHP is also a lot newer than Perl. |
| 18:50.57 | levi | It's maturing. |
| 18:51.10 | sjansen | Or immaturing. |
| 18:51.16 | bigdog_ut | jsmith, you can write ugly code in any language |
| 18:51.26 | sjansen | PHP is the VB of Open Source. Don't know who first said it, but it is _so_ true. |
| 18:51.40 | bigdog_ut | i think sjansen is stating that it abounds in php |
| 18:51.50 | tensai | I've seen good and bad code in every language. I'll agree with sjansen that php seems to have a higher bad to good ratio. |
| 18:51.59 | sjansen | jsmith: And I've had to debug it. |
| 18:52.10 | tensai | and I've been busy writing it |
| 18:52.18 | jsmith | That being said, PHP *can* be a great language, if used properly... Look at Yahoo and how much they use it. |
| 18:52.19 | bigdog_ut | same here |
| 18:53.10 | sjansen | In fact, one of the worst was kinda like that for loop stupidity but obsfucated. Basically, several people forgot to engage brain and ended up dropping a whale named Hugh onto the stack and expecting to not notice. |
| 18:53.20 | jsmith | To says it's not a powerful language that can be used effectively in the enterprise is belittling it. But like you guys have pointed out, MOST php code I've seen on the net is awful. |
| 18:53.29 | bigdog_ut | i just think the majority of php coders are not very verse in coding methodologies |
| 18:54.11 | levi | This is so true: "Ultimately, real advances in software development depend upon advances in programming techniques, which in turn mean advances in programming languages. C++ is such an advance. It has exploded in popularity because it is a mainstream programming language that directly supports better software design." |
| 18:54.24 | levi | Note that this is from 1992. |
| 18:54.27 | sjansen | No!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought I found the base of the problem, but the code was just taunting me. |
| 18:58.20 | bigdog_ut | http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=8065 |
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| 19:07.24 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (~mac@69.2.248.251) |
| 19:07.47 | macnewbold | any bit torrent experts in here? |
| 19:08.02 | macnewbold | my client says I've got a dozen peers or more, and all the pieces of the file are available, |
| 19:08.10 | macnewbold | but my client isn't downloading anything |
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| 19:16.08 | *** part/#utah jnielsendotnet (jn@c-24-2-72-123.client.comcast.net) |
| 19:28.28 | tene | macnewbold: the first question always asked in such situations is "Have you checked for firewall/nat problems?" |
| 19:28.45 | macnewbold | yeah, no firewall |
| 19:28.53 | macnewbold | I found the problem... the tracker wasn't letting me in |
| 19:29.00 | macnewbold | cause I hadn't logged into their forum thingy |
| 19:29.08 | macnewbold | I did now, and it still won't let me in though |
| 19:31.04 | *** join/#utah xilch_ (~xilch@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 19:31.20 | hans | wsshd[25231]: Authentication refused: bad ownership or modes for directory /home/kitcorfq |
| 19:31.41 | hans | just for making ~ group writable. how can I configure ssh to just get on with life? |
| 19:32.07 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 19:34.00 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 19:35.28 | tensai | RelaxPermissionsThatAreMakingHansLifeMiserable yes |
| 19:39.35 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:40.07 | macnewbold | hans: if ~/ is group write, then they could manipulate your ~/.ssh/ directory, and basically gain access to your account |
| 19:52.53 | spr | If i ever need a group writable directory in my home dir, I just make my home directory group executable and make a directory in it group writable |
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| 20:00.54 | sjansen | official platform: "I've already graduated and have a real job, so I promise to call meetings or waste anyone's time on 'brillian' new ideas." |
| 20:01.30 | sjansen | s/to call/not to call/ |
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| 20:07.03 | *** join/#utah mooneroid (~mooneroid@jmoon.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:09.33 | tensai | |addlart sends <who> to BYUSA meetings |
| 20:09.51 | tensai | ~smack brigham's owner |
| 20:09.53 | ibot | ACTION smacks brigham's owner upside the head. |
| 20:14.28 | levi | Woo. Just did a lunchtime bike ride. |
| 20:20.43 | Newsome | "John H. Terpstra, CTO, PrimaStasys Inc., will be speaking at the eBusiness Lecture, Wednesday, 2 March, at 2:00 and 4:00, in 710 TNRB. Topic: The Leading Edge of Business and Career: Presuppositions are Inescapable" |
| 20:23.59 | Jayce^ | cool |
| 20:24.34 | tensai | Terpstra as in Samba? |
| 20:24.39 | Newsome | yeah |
| 20:24.49 | Newsome | at 2 and 4 today |
| 20:32.34 | tensai | sounds fun. doubt I'll make it |
| 20:37.58 | vontrapp | levi: where'd you go? |
| 20:38.19 | vontrapp | levi: is that usually on saturdays you do the weekly bike time? |
| 20:38.48 | levi | hans: I've read those articles now. He makes a good point: the code is the ultimate design document. Writing the code is still part of the design phase, though it's not ALL of the design phase. More expressive programming tools/languages make the design process better. |
| 20:38.57 | levi | vontrapp: Went on a 10 mile loop. |
| 20:39.40 | levi | vontrapp: We're going to do lunch rides every Wed/Fri. We've been doing indoor training every Tue/Thurs. Eventually we'll have one day a week that we do an after work mtb ride. |
| 20:40.26 | levi | The 10 mile loop was from our office at the point of the mountain (right by the prison exit) all the way to the Alpine exit and back on the other frontage road. |
| 20:40.27 | vontrapp | GAAHAHAHAH |
| 20:40.34 | vontrapp | they got the wrong alternator |
| 20:40.42 | vontrapp | |lart car troubles |
| 20:40.51 | levi | Whoops. |
| 20:40.54 | vontrapp | ~lart brigham's owner |
| 20:42.14 | vontrapp | levi: don't think i'll be able to join on those |
| 20:42.18 | vontrapp | as i work in provo |
| 20:45.18 | macnewbold | vontrapp: sure you could make it, it would just be a little longer ride :) |
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| 20:46.34 | vontrapp | grr, that means i don't have a car to get me to a trail anymore today either. |
| 20:46.51 | vontrapp | this day is just about worser as yesterday |
| 20:47.32 | levi | vontrapp: A lot of our rides are up AF Canyon. |
| 20:47.52 | levi | The mtb rides, that is. |
| 20:48.22 | levi | Maybe towards the end of the season we'll think about riding our road bikes up the canyon, but I don't think any of us are in shape to do that at the moment. |
| 20:50.56 | vontrapp | are those lunch break rides or after work/ |
| 20:50.57 | vontrapp | ? |
| 20:51.48 | levi | The MTB rides are after work. |
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| 20:52.01 | levi | Takes too long to get the bikes out to a trail to do it during lunch. |
| 20:52.08 | levi | Lunch rides are road rides. |
| 20:52.28 | vontrapp | that's what i thought |
| 20:53.45 | brailsmt_ | (pun fully intended) |
| 20:54.10 | levi | Heh. |
| 20:54.29 | brailsmt_ | *crap* |
| 20:54.38 | brailsmt_ | i'll try again tomorrow |
| 20:54.54 | brailsmt_ | of course with that kind of faith, i will keep failing... |
| 20:55.03 | levi | How about you make copies of them instead of moving them? |
| 20:55.05 | brailsmt_ | i will do it tomorrow |
| 20:59.36 | vontrapp | cp /utah/timpanooke /montana/brailsmt/backyard |
| 21:00.57 | levi | He's in Missouri, not Montana. Montana has its own mountains. :) |
| 21:01.46 | brailsmt_ | montana is a wee bit north :) |
| 21:01.55 | brailsmt_ | ans west |
| 21:02.16 | vontrapp | hmm, i thought MO was montana |
| 21:02.53 | tensai | mt is montana |
| 21:03.39 | vontrapp | how much is a clutch kit? |
| 21:04.09 | jsmith | vontrapp: My thoughts exactly... I need one too. |
| 21:04.30 | vontrapp | at this rate, i'll have a new car before long |
| 21:05.07 | vontrapp | new cv joint, new tires, new alternator, new windshield, new side mirror... |
| 21:05.20 | vontrapp | things should be less expensive |
| 21:05.33 | levi | I wish car parts were less expensive, too. |
| 21:05.59 | levi | I need a new clutch before too long, too. And a new, upgraded radiator. |
| 21:06.14 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 21:06.43 | vontrapp | i even got a new valve cover, and it didn't even stop the oil leak like it was supposed to |
| 21:08.35 | brailsmt_ | MS == Mississippi, MI == Michigan, MN == Minnesota, MT == Montana, MD == Maryland, MO == Missouri... |
| 21:08.47 | brailsmt_ | Those are the commonly confused abbreviations... |
| 21:09.07 | vontrapp | too many M's |
| 21:14.36 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:14.42 | sjansen | And that is why I love Linux. |
| 21:17.30 | tensai | sjansen: grep -vE '(original|admin)' |
| 21:17.44 | sjansen | good idea, oh tensai |
| 21:25.03 | vontrapp | which would you have to replace, the pressure plate or the disc? |
| 21:25.46 | brailsmt_ | is there a command that does a difference between two files? not diff, I mean a set difference, so if you have a word in two files, it is removed from the output, and only the ones that are uniq are in the output? |
| 21:25.52 | brailsmt_ | uniq doesn't do it... |
| 21:26.50 | sjansen | pretty sure uniq can be convinced to do it |
| 21:27.28 | sjansen | hmmmmmmm... so it isn't uniq |
| 21:27.46 | sjansen | I remember a command that does... |
| 21:28.11 | goozbach | vimdiff? |
| 21:28.49 | vontrapp | no, not vimdiff |
| 21:29.47 | sjansen | Oh my. We're getting a new printer that will be capable of participating in a grid computing sytem. |
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| 21:30.48 | sjansen | brailsmt_: Sorry, can't remember it now. |
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| 21:38.44 | *** part/#utah ECS (~ecs@ecs-dell.byu.edu) |
| 21:40.53 | vontrapp | hmm, echo doesn't preserve newlines |
| 21:41.05 | vontrapp | is there something that does? |
| 21:42.12 | vontrapp | i guess it's not echo but rather bash that is delimiting the newlines |
| 21:44.15 | sjansen | bash doesn't preserve newlines unless you put the string in quotes |
| 21:44.50 | sjansen | when shell scripting, always put variables in quotes unless you have a reason not to |
| 21:45.10 | sjansen | that's a rule of thumb that will save you frustration and even data loss |
| 21:45.21 | vontrapp | echo "$(tr \ \\n < 1 | sort | uniq) |
| 21:45.21 | vontrapp | $(tr \ \\n < 2 | sort | uniq)" | sort | uniq -u |
| 21:45.35 | vontrapp | that is, if all your words are delimited by spaces |
| 21:45.57 | vontrapp | you may want to erase punctuation first |
| 21:48.50 | sjansen | argh |
| 21:50.45 | vontrapp | oh, and "1" and "2" are the two files |
| 21:50.58 | brailsmt_ | wtf would someone do this instead of cp: tar cf - $DIR | (cd $OUT_PATH; tar xf -)? |
| 21:51.58 | hans | don't trust cp not to mess it up, probably |
| 21:52.30 | hans | depending on the version of cp and the options you pass it, cp doesn't get all the attributes, permissions, etc. |
| 21:54.53 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 21:55.27 | brailsmt_ | perhaps, that is more cross-platform, across various versions of cp on various unices... |
| 21:55.52 | brailsmt_ | that about all i could think of... |
| 21:56.38 | hans | well, exactly. many tools are crippled on proprietary unices, compared to what we have in linux. |
| 21:57.14 | hans | I wouldn't be surprised if cp is one. in fact I wouldn't be too surprised that even with gnu tools the tar method has an advantage over cp. |
| 21:58.19 | brailsmt_ | ok... |
| 21:58.56 | brailsmt_ | most of what I do everyday is curse the crappy (compared to GNU) tools the proprietary unices have... |
| 21:59.21 | brailsmt_ | at least solaris 10 includes most of the GNU utilities... |
| 22:00.30 | brailsmt_ | if only hpux would wake up and pull its head out... |
| 22:00.34 | brailsmt_ | ... |
| 22:00.54 | tensai | there's no hpuxfreeware.com? |
| 22:00.58 | brailsmt_ | anyway, thx for the input |
| 22:01.02 | brailsmt_ | tensai: beats me... |
| 22:01.13 | brailsmt_ | its not like I can go around to client |
| 22:01.21 | brailsmt_ | 's machines and install them... |
| 22:21.02 | jsmith | http://unix.rulez.org/~calver/pictures/stupid_users/sct001.html <--- stupid computer users |
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| 22:36.24 | mooneroid | i wish those pictures didn't look so much like what my mother-in-law has on her desk.... |
| 22:36.29 | sjansen | tensai: not really |
| 22:37.05 | sjansen | You can get some free software from HP itself. There's a smattering of community produced packages. |
| 22:37.37 | sjansen | But they're hard to find and often old. |
| 22:37.51 | emcnabb | |lart sjansen |
| 22:37.58 | emcnabb | ~lart sjansen |
| 22:44.45 | sjansen | Somewhere there's a "Web developer" (not the term I would apply to him) that's proud of himself for using lots of CSS and not using tables for layout. |
| 22:45.23 | sjansen | Peer pressue made him do it, and now he thinks he's "professional" because he was able to. |
| 22:45.34 | sjansen | Sadly, he forgot to engage his brain. |
| 22:47.39 | sjansen | Cleaning up after him is threatening to turn me into a gun nut. Going out into the deseret and blasting something to smithereens is starting to sound not only cathartic but necessary. |
| 22:51.58 | levi | Heh. Poor sjansen. |
| 23:07.43 | levi | This looks like an interesting CS textbook: http://www1.idc.ac.il/tecs/ |
| 23:09.24 | levi | Looks like it's the same sort of idea as BYU's CS143. You build up a computer from logic gates, and then write some software for it. |
| 23:12.39 | levi | Except it goes way farther, including implementing a virtual machine, a high-level language, a compiler, and an OS. |
| 23:14.33 | tyce | anyone get a hold of the liveCD for looking glass yet? |
| 23:14.58 | tyce | sun's site is at a crawl after being slashdotted. |
| 23:26.55 | sjansen | ~lart stripslashes and the broken-ness that spawned it |
| 23:28.03 | jsmith | sjansen: Lack of standards will do that to ya :-) |
| 23:29.02 | jsmith | sjansen: What about ADOdb? |
| 23:29.12 | sjansen | You're kidding, right? |
| 23:29.36 | sjansen | Unless it has improved alot in the last 6 months, ADOdb doesn't even compare. |
| 23:30.00 | jsmith | Alright, if you say so... |
| 23:30.10 | sjansen | ADOdb choked on even simple things |
| 23:30.47 | jsmith | sjansen: Then you obviously didn't know how to use it. |
| 23:31.00 | tensai | jsmith: speaking of adodb, there's still no support for it in my christmas wishlist program. *nudge* *nudge* |
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| 23:33.22 | sjansen | A basic requirement of a DB abstraction is that it should make it easy (easier) to convert an app to a different DB. |
| 23:34.09 | jsmith | sjansen: Yes, and if used properly, ADOdb does just that. |
| 23:34.09 | sjansen | I tried converting two different ADOdb apps from MySQL to Postgresql and quit in frustration. |
| 23:34.40 | Jayce^ | Class::DBI :) |
| 23:34.47 | sjansen | You can try to lay blame with the developers that tied their apps too closesly to MySQL, but ADOdb shouldn't have let them do so in the first place. Not so tightly, any way. |
| 23:34.50 | jsmith | sjansen: I've converted quite a few apps myself. Most of the problems were from writing things in MySQL-specific SQL instead of using the ADOdb functions. |
| 23:35.03 | jsmith | sjansen: Again, it's all in using the tool properly. |
| 23:35.14 | sjansen | Which PHP developers rarely do. |
| 23:35.29 | jsmith | I'd whole-heartedly agree with that statement. |
| 23:35.46 | jsmith | I know too many database abstraction layers that are just another level on indirection. |
| 23:35.51 | sjansen | And we come full circle to stripslashes. It should never have existed. It was a hack instead of a solution. |
| 23:35.54 | jsmith | And are *VERY* MySQL specific. |
| 23:36.10 | jsmith | sjansen: And I agree with you. |
| 23:36.21 | jsmith | sjansen: Again, a lack of standardization led to a mess. Imagine that. |
| 23:36.49 | sjansen | A lack of standardizaion on the part of PHP. Not a lack of standardization on the part of databases. |
| 23:37.03 | sjansen | Although, to be fair, MySQL deserves part of the blame for corrupting so many developers. |
| 23:37.11 | jsmith | Blame who you want to. I blame both. |
| 23:37.49 | jsmith | I'm tired of trying to defend PHP from people who associate it only with script-kiddies / can't-follow-a-linked-list coders. |
| 23:39.25 | sjansen | I've recognized before that PHP can be powerful and used well. |
| 23:39.33 | sjansen | But it sure doesn't make it easy. |
| 23:40.30 | sjansen | I mean just to create a truly portable app, you have to have some type of front-end filter checking magic_quotes (two different versions, if you want to support informix), register_globals, and a bunch of other gunk. |
| 23:40.38 | hans | bah, nvidia + 2.6.11 = 0 |
| 23:40.59 | sjansen | well of course, you're using too new a kernel |
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| 23:41.15 | sjansen | Proprietary drivers, right? |
| 23:42.18 | Jayce^ | hans, what's wrong? I'm using that |
| 23:43.29 | hans | sjansen: it was released today if you didn't hear. |
| 23:43.45 | hans | Jayce^: compilation fails |
| 23:45.03 | hans | supposedly it worked up through rc1, and there are patches |
| 23:45.20 | hans | I'm trying to decide whether to jump the patch hoops or just stay on 2.6.10 |
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