| 00:01.39 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~sjk36@128.187.175.16) |
| 00:02.05 | SpecialK | ~lart Maquis |
| 00:05.58 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 00:05.58 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See plug.org, uug.byu.edu, sllug.org, fslc.usu.edu, etc. Utah Windows Admins Anonymous: http://utwaa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/waa |
| 00:05.58 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 00:06.28 | RyanE | I guess that's what 13 years, 5 kids and 3 houses will do to you. |
| 00:07.07 | levi | If you don't learn what's been researched in the past and how to read the literature, you're stuck way down on the totem pole. |
| 00:07.38 | levi | Or you end up trying to do things above your head, and make a real mess of them because you don't have the theory background. |
| 00:09.34 | RyanE | agreed, although I don't see where there have been so many advances since graduation that I've 'needed' to 'stay on top'. OOP, maybe, but that's about it. |
| 00:10.24 | levi | Well, not necessarily stay on top, but to explore things that you didn't cover in your education. |
| 00:10.38 | RyanE | I find that unfortunately, I don't have much time to explore if I want to produce. |
| 00:10.41 | levi | A BS degree just skims the surface of a lot of areas. |
| 00:10.45 | RyanE | agreed |
| 00:10.55 | levi | But should prepare you to read more deeply. |
| 00:11.21 | findlay | on the other hand, I find Schostakovich's 5th to be very sublime and intense |
| 00:11.29 | RyanE | hehehe |
| 00:11.30 | levi | Well, sometimes you have to take the time to study the literature in an area before producing. Or, rather, sometimes it would be beneficial if you did. :) |
| 00:12.10 | sjansen | Much easier to just form an opinion and stick with it. |
| 00:12.37 | sjansen | Ever since I was introduced to /dev/urandom, I haven't had to learn another thing. |
| 00:12.39 | findlay | and if Wheeler is right, then so are you (: |
| 00:13.06 | findlay | he believes the Universe is defined by how we look at it, and that includes thought |
| 00:13.17 | RyanE | gotta go. Later. |
| 00:13.20 | *** part/#utah RyanE (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 00:14.20 | levi | findlay: That's a nice way of looking at some things, but CS is founded on math, and if you want to do anything useful in math, you have to agree to the same fundamental theorems as everyone else, and then you're back into relative objectivity. :) |
| 00:14.47 | levi | Of course, you could disagree on some fundamental principle, but then you have a LOT of work to do before you'll be able to get anyone to listen to you. |
| 00:15.56 | findlay | well, levi there are some subtle, although important variations between different schools on the fundamentals of mathematics |
| 00:16.42 | findlay | but, Goodel applies to all |
| 00:17.33 | levi | findlay: That's what I meant by what I said. Once you differ in a fundamental principle, you have to build up your new system to where the old one is. |
| 00:18.14 | findlay | I think Tanyama-Shimura is awesome though in its implications for mathematics as a whole |
| 00:18.53 | levi | I have no idea what Tanyama-Shimura is. |
| 00:19.06 | sjansen | I think Kobiashi-Moroo was over hyped. |
| 00:19.30 | findlay | well the differences between schools didn't arise in semantic discrepacnies for mathematics |
| 00:19.43 | findlay | just different ways of coming at the same thing |
| 00:20.20 | findlay | Tanyama-Shimura is the generally the basis of the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem |
| 00:20.45 | findlay | that semsistable modular elliptic curves and modular forms are the same entity |
| 00:22.15 | findlay | An elliptic curve over Q is said to be modular if it has a finite covering by a modular curve of the form X_0(N) |
| 00:22.52 | levi | That's interesting, but it's beside the point I was trying to make, which is that there are formal systems that most CS stuff is built upon, and your perception of things is irrelevant unless you want to rebulid CS from your point of divergence. CS might as well be objective, even if reality is not. |
| 00:22.54 | findlay | -Andrew Wiles. Annals of Mathematics May, 1995 |
| 00:23.03 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@c-67-161-213-34.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:23.23 | findlay | but I question whether there is any divergence at all |
| 00:24.42 | findlay | what do you see as a typical point of divergence. I guess I'm thinking way more abstractly that you mean. (: |
| 00:27.15 | levi | I'm saying that viewing reality as subjective is not useful when considering CS. I don't know what you're talking about. |
| 00:27.55 | sjansen | levi: Don't worry, in my reality findlay is just making it up. |
| 00:30.06 | findlay | for sjansen's sake |
| 00:30.10 | bucky | reality... what a concept |
| 00:30.37 | findlay | levi: that sounds reasonable |
| 00:31.31 | bucky | sjansen, did you give up on bricolage? |
| 00:31.51 | sjansen | no, actually I think I'm close to having it the way I want it |
| 00:31.57 | bucky | cool! |
| 00:32.04 | sjansen | Just haven't had the time to play with it lately. |
| 00:32.28 | bucky | sjansen, have you heard of hula.. opensource version of NetMail ? |
| 00:32.36 | bucky | http://hula-project.org/Hula_Server |
| 00:32.51 | sjansen | Yeah, it was announced a coupla' days ago. |
| 00:33.03 | bucky | i got debs if you want em |
| 00:33.21 | sjansen | Not yet, but I'll keep that in mind. |
| 00:33.28 | bucky | ftp://hulamail.blogdns.com/pub/hula |
| 00:34.47 | bucky | they got 150 people in #hula already... including nat friedman |
| 00:36.13 | *** join/#utah joshc (~josh@65.37.125.194) |
| 00:36.30 | joshc | whew - okay, that last one wasnt so bad. |
| 00:37.21 | joshc | now i really need to eat a delicious bass |
| 00:37.27 | bucky | joshc, ask sjansen if there are any good canidates in byu uug |
| 00:37.45 | joshc | ah - i've been looking for sjansen |
| 00:37.54 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (~von@tsa-ap1.byu.edu) |
| 00:38.01 | sjansen | bucky? |
| 00:38.10 | bucky | he's good... have you asked him to interview |
| 00:39.02 | bucky | sjansen, joshc is looking for a good web devel |
| 00:40.16 | sjansen | ah, no already love my job |
| 00:40.19 | joshc | i'm actually *really* looking for a windows dev guy |
| 00:40.32 | bucky | asp ? |
| 00:40.39 | joshc | no - desktop app |
| 00:40.41 | joshc | not web |
| 00:40.49 | joshc | WTL, MFC, win32 |
| 00:40.52 | joshc | that kind of thing |
| 00:41.07 | joshc | $2K referral bonus for anyone who can help us find the right guy |
| 00:41.10 | joshc | er right gal. |
| 00:42.06 | joshc | anyway, i'm hungry - but i thought i'd just pop on and let ya'll know i'm feeling better after that last interview. |
| 00:42.15 | joshc | (not that you guys should care or anything.) |
| 00:42.18 | joshc | :-/ |
| 00:42.25 | bucky | joshc /msg me your phone number.. i'll have my cuz call you |
| 00:42.53 | joshc | your cuz doesnt have email..? |
| 00:43.13 | bucky | i don't have it handy right now... it's on my family.com |
| 00:44.02 | joshc | ok - cya l8r folks |
| 00:44.04 | *** part/#utah joshc (~josh@65.37.125.194) |
| 00:44.36 | findlay | ~congratualte joshc on feeling better after that last interview even though he says we shouldn't have to care |
| 00:46.03 | vontrapp | what about 'that last interview'? |
| 00:57.30 | fozz | Only joshc would troll an OSS IRC channel and/or Mailing list looking for a "windows dev guy." |
| 00:58.35 | bucky | lol |
| 00:59.35 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 01:00.21 | *** join/#utah friedfish (~fishyfire@128.187.175.205) |
| 01:03.04 | *** part/#utah bucky (~bucky@67-137-128-172.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 01:05.47 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@byu147137wks.byu.edu) |
| 01:12.01 | friedfish | friedfish wonders how to check if a method has been called in java |
| 01:12.04 | sjansen | Nobody knows how to polka like Al. |
| 01:12.34 | sjansen | friedfish: What do you mean "called"? |
| 01:12.47 | friedfish | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:12.53 | fozz | sjansen: Hi. |
| 01:13.00 | sjansen | fozz: howdy |
| 01:13.14 | fozz | I'm in the XMission colo right now. |
| 01:13.18 | friedfish | called as in has been previously called in the program |
| 01:13.21 | sjansen | friedfish: Sound like something the programmer is responsible for keeping track of. |
| 01:13.27 | fozz | XMission had a guy call me whose machine was compromised today. |
| 01:13.32 | fozz | Paypal phishing thing. |
| 01:13.40 | sjansen | Although maybe you can query the class/object to find out. |
| 01:14.03 | sjansen | fozz: been getting those |
| 01:14.11 | sjansen | annoying, about the only spam I do get |
| 01:14.58 | fozz | heh |
| 01:16.10 | sjansen | friedfish: Anyway, short of wrapping the object in your own class that keeps, track I don't think there's a way to find that out if the class doesn't provide it as a method or attribute. |
| 01:16.11 | levi | My bike shoes are SO muddy. |
| 01:16.27 | friedfish | hmm |
| 01:16.54 | friedfish | ok thanks sjansen |
| 01:18.01 | levi | friedfish: The only way I could see to do it is check some sort of side effect of the method. Like the dictionary being empty or something. |
| 01:18.20 | friedfish | hmm okay that makes sense |
| 01:18.24 | friedfish | thanks |
| 01:18.34 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@ip-66-80-196-194.atl.megapath.net) |
| 01:18.55 | levi | Or if there's nothing obvious, and you have control over it, you can have it set a flag when it does run. |
| 01:19.27 | sjansen | Or just wrap it in a try and loop a couple times if needed. |
| 01:19.41 | sjansen | There are those that would such a design elegant... |
| 01:19.51 | sjansen | I don't agreee, but you could do it. |
| 01:20.25 | friedfish | it doesn't matter how elegant it is |
| 01:20.30 | friedfish | as long as it doesn't take 3 years to run |
| 01:20.50 | friedfish | i think checking to see if the dictionary is empty or not will work though |
| 01:21.00 | levi | sjansen: What does a try and loop construct buy you if you want to only have a method run once? |
| 01:22.08 | jakea | ~lart emcnabb |
| 01:24.35 | sjansen | for (i=0; !sucess && i < 3; i++) { try { dict.do_magic; sucess = true; } catch (IllegalStateException e) { dict.loadDictionary(...); } } |
| 01:24.56 | friedfish | if(dictionary.isEmpty()!=true) |
| 01:24.57 | friedfish | { |
| 01:24.57 | friedfish | throw new IllegalStateException("ERROR! Load Dictionary First."); |
| 01:24.57 | friedfish | } |
| 01:25.09 | sjansen | levi: In other words, not much more than not worrying about state. |
| 01:26.26 | friedfish | time to go find some food... |
| 01:26.43 | levi | sjansen: Ahh, I see what you mean now. |
| 01:27.27 | levi | sjansen: But that is nasty. |
| 01:28.00 | sjansen | *shrug* |
| 01:30.29 | fozz | goozbach: Hi |
| 01:30.58 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (~zorb@c-24-2-80-89.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:36.37 | goozbach | howdy |
| 01:36.44 | Maquis | goozbach: sup yo? |
| 01:37.03 | findlay | ~lart Maquis |
| 01:37.14 | SpecialK | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:37.24 | levi | Yo. |
| 01:40.42 | fozz | goozbach: Yat today? |
| 01:41.18 | fozz | yat you! |
| 01:41.51 | goozbach | manasses VA |
| 01:41.59 | fozz | How are the... uhm... |
| 01:42.05 | fozz | restaurants there? |
| 01:42.29 | levi | Oh geez. This is the most awful thing ever: http://requiem.loyalty.org/~schoen/The_Eternal_Flame_God_.mp3 |
| 01:42.39 | levi | Despite its lisp advocacy. :) |
| 01:42.55 | goozbach | great stuff |
| 01:43.02 | SpecialK | goozbach, that would have been semi clean without the space in the middle |
| 01:43.27 | goozbach | I went to a good italian place tonight |
| 01:43.34 | findlay | wasn't there a civil war battle there? |
| 01:43.45 | goozbach | something like that |
| 01:43.54 | sjansen | findlay: A war between the States. |
| 01:44.02 | sjansen | Wasn't nothing civil about it, you clod. |
| 01:44.28 | findlay | fine |
| 01:45.11 | findlay | ~lart sjansen for his uncompromising political correctness |
| 01:45.22 | sjansen | ~fine findlay |
| 01:45.34 | Maquis | ~lart sjansen |
| 01:45.50 | findlay | civil war is more elegant |
| 01:46.18 | sjansen | ibot: fine $who is <action> requires $who to provide everyone else in the channel with fresh triple fudge brownies |
| 01:46.19 | ibot | sjansen: okay |
| 01:46.21 | sjansen | ~fine findlay |
| 01:46.24 | ibot | ACTION requires findlay to provide everyone else in the channel with fresh triple fudge brownies |
| 01:46.37 | Maquis | ~fine sjansen |
| 01:46.40 | ibot | ACTION requires sjansen to provide everyone else in the channel with fresh triple fudge brownies |
| 01:46.41 | SpecialK | ~find sjansen |
| 01:46.48 | Maquis | mmmmmmmmmm |
| 01:47.01 | Maquis | ~fine SpecialK |
| 01:47.03 | ibot | ACTION requires SpecialK to provide everyone else in the channel with fresh triple fudge brownies |
| 01:47.27 | Maquis | SpecialK: those better be at the meeting tonight... |
| 01:48.26 | SpecialK | If I'm done in time to make it, we'll see. .. |
| 01:48.47 | goozbach | whenever I feel like a freak I just gotta turn on the discovery channel |
| 01:49.24 | goozbach | "body modifications" |
| 01:50.30 | goozbach | FREAKS |
| 01:50.52 | sjansen | Super freak, super freak, he's super freaky. |
| 01:51.09 | dataw0lf | yay for body modification |
| 01:52.08 | goozbach | horns, scarred puzzle peices cut into your face |
| 01:52.20 | goozbach | yeah... 'yay' |
| 01:52.25 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-79-128.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:52.27 | findlay | I just changed my root passwd and have trouble remembering it, maybe I can post it here so you all can remind me when I need it |
| 01:52.30 | findlay | OK? |
| 01:53.02 | sjansen | findlay: it's gonna cost you |
| 01:53.13 | findlay | what? |
| 01:53.32 | findlay | I trust my ISP's firewall |
| 01:53.34 | sjansen | I think $10 weekly for the use of my memory is fair. |
| 01:53.40 | findlay | besides they know what's best for me |
| 01:53.40 | jakea | so Maquis.... |
| 01:53.45 | goozbach | that's what he charges me |
| 01:54.09 | findlay | I won't go a cent over $7 |
| 01:54.10 | dataw0lf | goozbach: well, they seem to be giving you amusement, so indeed: yay. |
| 01:54.39 | sjansen | goozbach: Don't forget you have an appointment Saturday to get that forehead piercing. |
| 01:55.18 | findlay | goozbach: don't do it, anybody with bach in their name has to be cool by default |
| 01:55.36 | goozbach | coo! |
| 02:05.35 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@josh.dsl.aros.net) |
| 02:37.42 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 02:41.49 | sjansen | ~lart stupid caches |
| 02:42.01 | Maquis | ~lart stupid sjansens |
| 02:42.09 | tensai | who wants to hear the story of how my son got poop all over the carpet? |
| 02:42.36 | sjansen | tensai: Uh, why? |
| 02:42.51 | Maquis | tensai: ummmm |
| 02:43.05 | tensai | sjansen: there might be people who don't have enough of their own problems |
| 02:44.39 | sjansen | ~lart stupid people who make configuration mistakes then blame proxies |
| 02:44.58 | tensai | sjansen: I was able to build openldap 2.2 and import a fixed copy of our tree, complete with ispman merged into ou=imap |
| 02:45.11 | sjansen | nice :-) |
| 02:45.55 | tensai | those debian packages have issues. I couldn't get them to install without uninstalling most everything else. instead I just compiled from source. |
| 02:48.17 | hans | openldap? |
| 02:48.23 | sjansen | yeah |
| 02:48.24 | hans | I haven't had issues installing it on debian |
| 02:48.36 | sjansen | It's really too bad that Debian ships such an old version of OpenLDAP. |
| 02:48.50 | tensai | you clearly haven't tried installing the unofficial 2.2 packages |
| 02:49.05 | tensai | 2.0 or 2.1 is easy |
| 02:49.16 | sjansen | I'm not sure they rise to even that level of legitimacy. |
| 02:51.26 | sjansen | ~hug Debian's "remove completely" option |
| 02:51.28 | ibot | ACTION hugs Debian's "remove completely" option |
| 02:57.58 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (~zorb@c-24-2-80-89.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:01.21 | levi | Yay, my root filesystem mounts! |
| 03:01.40 | sjansen | that's always ... nice |
| 03:01.51 | levi | This is on an embedded device. |
| 03:02.12 | tensai | what kind of fs? cram, squash, ...? |
| 03:02.20 | levi | So I had to figure out the right kernel options to get it to mount a jffs2 root from an mtd device. |
| 03:05.01 | levi | Apparently, you have to tell it that it's jffs2. |
| 03:07.44 | levi | Of course, now I have a lot of 'INIT: cannot fork, retry...' to deal with. |
| 03:09.01 | hans | w00t! |
| 03:10.32 | mheath | What Window Managers or Desktop Environments does everyone in here use? |
| 03:10.48 | hans | fvwm with some xfce components |
| 03:11.07 | findlay | I use raw X11 system calls |
| 03:11.13 | fozz | heh heh. |
| 03:11.17 | fozz | KDE |
| 03:11.26 | mheath | I used to use Gnome |
| 03:11.38 | goozbach | xfce |
| 03:11.42 | levi | Gnome |
| 03:11.46 | fozz | I use xfce on servers. |
| 03:11.47 | mheath | Now I tried Enlightenment DR17, and discovered that it was an incomplete, buggy thing... |
| 03:11.48 | levi | Used to use KDE |
| 03:11.54 | levi | Heh. |
| 03:12.02 | mheath | But I got a taste of some of the best eyecandy I've ever seen in my life |
| 03:12.13 | fozz | Yeah- E is that. |
| 03:12.22 | levi | E has always been great eyecandy. |
| 03:12.32 | mheath | and fell inlove with engage (the toolbar) although the transparency was screwed up.. |
| 03:12.38 | fozz | Rasterman is "E" as in eccentric. |
| 03:12.50 | mheath | Now I need a functioning, stable WM, but Gnome seems too...bland :D |
| 03:12.51 | fozz | He's... an interesting fellow. |
| 03:13.23 | fozz | mheath: Pay a visit to themes.org |
| 03:14.14 | mheath | Themes.org? Never heard of it...one sec. |
| 03:14.30 | mheath | Oh! themes.freshmeat.net |
| 03:14.41 | mheath | Yeah, I know...Theres only so much you can do with themeing though |
| 03:14.45 | levi | fozz is oldschool. ;) |
| 03:14.51 | fozz | I guess. |
| 03:15.05 | levi | mheath: Gnome will have some interesting eyecandy in a while. |
| 03:15.06 | markl_ | Jayce^: yo are you around |
| 03:15.20 | fozz | The only reason I even use a GUI is so I can have multiple xterms open. |
| 03:15.22 | mheath | I know |
| 03:15.23 | fozz | It really doesn't matter what I use. |
| 03:15.25 | mheath | I love the themes I had on GNome |
| 03:15.30 | mheath | and it was beautiful... |
| 03:15.44 | mheath | But its ugly in comparison to Enlightenment |
| 03:18.29 | levi | I don't really like my desktop to be excessively pretty. |
| 03:18.38 | mheath | E isn't |
| 03:18.59 | mheath | It's like...Mac OS X pretty, but way better |
| 03:21.22 | levi | OK, the fork error isn't coming from the kernel. Must be busybox. |
| 03:22.03 | mheath | Yeah... |
| 03:22.13 | mheath | a fork error in the kernel == seg fault :D |
| 03:23.12 | mheath | Hahah |
| 03:23.19 | mheath | Silly IRSSI |
| 03:23.30 | mheath | "Join to #utah was synced in 10795 secs" |
| 03:35.59 | levi | Oh, hrm. It's not busybox, it's sysv init. |
| 03:36.05 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-79-128.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:50.11 | levi | Apparently sysv init doesn't know not to use fork on an mmuless system. |
| 03:50.29 | levi | I wonder how many other of the programs I've got on this image are going to have the same problem. |
| 03:50.44 | findlay | have you tried spooning instead? |
| 03:51.10 | levi | That's always nice, but I'm at work and the wife is at home. |
| 03:52.51 | goozbach | ha ha |
| 03:52.55 | goozbach | that's rich |
| 03:53.24 | goozbach | "feel free to join us for some 'just friends' spooning" -- Zoidberg |
| 03:53.47 | tensai | gaaa. evolution went nuts, started eating up cpu and just about emptied my battery |
| 03:54.43 | tensai | http://www.workorspoon.com/ |
| 03:55.00 | tensai | but it's not what you think. "Attempting to answer the age old question - Which is more painful, going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon?" |
| 04:03.49 | findlay | this is to see if my irssi log works |
| 04:07.55 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-79-128.client.comcast.net) |
| 04:12.56 | levi | At least now I feel like I'm doing real embedded systems programming. :) |
| 04:17.14 | mheath | 'night, everyone |
| 04:27.31 | tensai | http://www.rc3.org/cgi-bin/less.pl?arg=6772 |
| 04:36.25 | levi | Ack, my /dev/* are not device files. No wonder I can't open a console. |
| 04:37.53 | levi | tensai: What do you think about that? |
| 04:38.04 | tensai | levi: try mknod |
| 04:38.26 | levi | tensai: I know mknod. I was asking what you thought about the link you pasted. |
| 04:38.35 | tensai | hee, hee. :) |
| 04:39.21 | tensai | that's what I've felt about soap but never realized it. I recall that it was gonna be the Next Big Thing(tm) but failed to materialize |
| 04:39.49 | tensai | I just finished writing an app that uses a REST api. it was quite simple and works great. |
| 04:40.09 | tensai | sure glad I didn't have to format some hokey xml request instead |
| 04:40.31 | tensai | (never heard the term REST before, so I hope I used it properly) |
| 04:47.57 | levi | I don't think very highly of SOAP or XML-based RPC methods either. |
| 05:18.45 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:26.44 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 05:33.00 | Maquis | gaaaaahhhhhh |
| 05:38.56 | levi | Maquis: Eh? |
| 05:40.39 | Maquis | my program still doesn't work |
| 05:40.44 | Maquis | i'm horridly behind in this class |
| 05:40.52 | Maquis | and i don't know why!!! |
| 05:40.59 | Maquis | it's not supposed to be that hard of a project!!! |
| 05:41.42 | levi | What class/program? |
| 05:41.59 | Maquis | cs345 --- dining philosophers |
| 05:43.59 | levi | Ahh. What problems are you having? |
| 05:48.18 | goozbach | sleep stupid |
| 05:49.24 | goozbach | er out |
| 05:56.43 | goozbach | Woot my priorty inversion example works |
| 05:57.01 | goozbach | not as noticeable as I'd like but it doesn't dead lock |
| 05:58.29 | levi | goozbach: You doing cs345 too? |
| 05:59.34 | goozbach | levi: no, I'm teaching about kernel scheduling tomorrow |
| 05:59.51 | levi | Oh. |
| 05:59.52 | goozbach | I'm having to come up with my own examples however... |
| 06:00.47 | xbmodder | I wish I was a vampire. |
| 06:01.25 | xbmodder | Thats Just Beautiful: Science: London Nuke Plant Loses 30 Kilos of Plutonium |
| 06:01.56 | goozbach | it probally would have helped to have gone through a couple more cs classes before I dropped out of college |
| 06:02.21 | Maquis | levi: my problems are: i'm stupid, i can't program, and i can't get thjis stupid thing to do anything it's supposed to do |
| 06:03.06 | Maquis | goozbach: i have a scheduler... |
| 06:03.11 | Maquis | priority round-robin... |
| 06:03.36 | goozbach | Maquis: I'm teaching abt the Linux kernel scheduler |
| 06:03.39 | levi | Maquis: Well, I don't think you're stupid. |
| 06:04.00 | levi | Maquis: You're probably just frustrated and have your mind in a bind. |
| 06:04.08 | levi | Which makes it difficult to think clearly. |
| 06:04.15 | goozbach | mostly the differences between SCHED_OTHER and SCHED_RR and SCHED_FIFO |
| 06:04.32 | Maquis | levi: thanks... i just wish i could get this in on time though |
| 06:04.38 | Maquis | but we're a couple days late for that so far... |
| 06:04.57 | Maquis | goozbach: SCHED_RR == round robin... |
| 06:05.06 | Maquis | SCHED_FIFO is fcfs... |
| 06:05.20 | Maquis | we learned those in cs345 |
| 06:07.45 | goozbach | stupid thing is only working 1/3 time however |
| 06:09.19 | levi | Maquis: Are you having language problems, algorithm problems, or something else? |
| 06:12.21 | Maquis | levi: i don't know what it's doing |
| 06:12.56 | Maquis | but for some reason, the task list is emptying out, and the whole thing is getting into deadlock, and i can't figure out why |
| 06:13.48 | xbmodder | goozbach, you dropped out?? |
| 06:14.35 | goozbach | yup.. abt three years ago now |
| 06:15.08 | xbmodder | cool |
| 06:15.15 | goozbach | not really |
| 06:19.08 | Maquis | @#$%!!!! |
| 06:19.29 | Maquis | i'm supposed to have read like 30+ pages worth of stuff for civ by tomorrow morning |
| 06:19.46 | levi | Maquis: I know the feeling. I feel for you. |
| 06:19.59 | levi | Maquis: What language are you using? |
| 06:20.10 | Maquis | levi: C |
| 06:20.28 | Maquis | i like C, but i don't even have a full year's experience using it yet... |
| 06:21.47 | levi | C likes to bite you. |
| 06:21.49 | Maquis | certain things like string manipulation aren't too bad for me in C (i like working with char*s), but other stuff just doesn't... |
| 06:22.06 | Maquis | all these semaphores and mutual exclusion and stuff are driving me out of my mind |
| 06:22.08 | levi | So you're using C and pthreads? |
| 06:22.15 | Maquis | not pthreads |
| 06:22.31 | levi | Some thread library, though? |
| 06:22.35 | Maquis | no |
| 06:22.53 | levi | How are you doing multiple threads? |
| 06:22.57 | Maquis | our prof set up some sort of createTask function that creates the new tasks... |
| 06:23.05 | Maquis | and then we schedule it... |
| 06:23.18 | Maquis | with good-guy swapping |
| 06:23.47 | Maquis | but the TAs are going to stick in SWAP functions wherever they think it'll break things... |
| 06:30.34 | xbmodder | Hey any gimp gods here? |
| 06:43.19 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 06:57.39 | SpecialK | being kicked out |
| 07:02.14 | goozbach | 2am and still going strong |
| 07:02.16 | goozbach | grrr |
| 07:11.22 | Maquis | goozbach: does this have to be done tomorrow? |
| 07:19.30 | goozbach | yeah |
| 07:19.33 | goozbach | for class |
| 07:20.24 | Maquis | ick |
| 07:20.34 | Maquis | it's a custom class, right? |
| 07:20.44 | Maquis | had you ever taught anything like it before? |
| 07:20.55 | goozbach | more or less |
| 07:29.36 | Maquis | more or less? |
| 07:37.47 | levi | Hopefully this is the last time I have to upload a kernel via jtag... :/ |
| 07:41.09 | goozbach | I've taught most of the material before |
| 07:54.48 | levi | *sigh* |
| 07:55.02 | levi | The kernel works now, but my filesystem still isn't sufficient to get me a prompt. |
| 07:55.13 | levi | Uploading another one... and it takes longer than the kernel. |
| 08:21.31 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 08:25.39 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 08:25.39 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See plug.org, uug.byu.edu, sllug.org, fslc.usu.edu, etc. Utah Windows Admins Anonymous: http://utwaa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/waa |
| 08:25.39 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 08:32.21 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 08:32.21 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See plug.org, uug.byu.edu, sllug.org, fslc.usu.edu, etc. Utah Windows Admins Anonymous: http://utwaa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/waa |
| 08:32.21 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 10:24.52 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 10:24.52 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See plug.org, uug.byu.edu, sllug.org, fslc.usu.edu, etc. Utah Windows Admins Anonymous: http://utwaa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/waa |
| 10:24.52 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 13:14.31 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 13:24.00 | *** join/#utah brigham (~brigham@128.187.244.164) |
| 14:19.24 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 14:50.11 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@firebat.aros.net) |
| 15:05.01 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@207.141.37.66) |
| 15:09.51 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@208.186.180.204) |
| 15:09.57 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@71.32.230.91) |
| 15:26.35 | bbeattie | Any hard core windows gamers here? I'm just wondering if building a new box, if 1GB is needed or 512MB. (dual channel ddr)? |
| 15:28.38 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 15:31.44 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 15:39.36 | xbmodder | bbeattie, 1GIG |
| 15:39.47 | xbmodder | for windows 1GIG for linux 512+ |
| 15:39.52 | xbmodder | the more the merrier |
| 15:40.43 | xbmodder | windows can take up about 256MB and each uncompressed texture is about 2MB |
| 15:40.58 | xbmodder | 2*400 |
| 15:41.02 | xbmodder | 800MB |
| 15:41.15 | xbmodder | most games have about 200-400 textures in use at a time |
| 15:44.06 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (~von@user-225.kingsley2.fiber.net) |
| 15:44.16 | erj | http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1284769.html?menu=news.quirkies.animaltales |
| 15:48.01 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@translate.sento.com) |
| 16:05.12 | *** join/#utah jinro (~jinro@c-24-2-95-30.client.comcast.net) |
| 16:11.27 | vontrapp | that's just messed up |
| 16:13.01 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 16:14.42 | vontrapp | just imagine, you're a penguin in a cage with only male penguins, you hear that some females will be joining you, but then the gay rights activists protest the "organised and forced harrasment through female seductresses" and the whole female plan is stopped cold. how would you feel? |
| 16:20.43 | *** join/#utah mknapp905 (~mknapp905@67.107.203.130.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 16:22.42 | *** join/#utah onetwig (~onetwig@66.239.8.5.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 16:22.51 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 16:41.21 | Jayce^ | 'sandwiches, next question' |
| 16:42.01 | tene | So, now I've got a job doing data entry for the tax comission |
| 16:42.07 | tene | I start sometime next week |
| 16:42.21 | tene | I hope that other guy gets back to me about that other job first... |
| 16:44.08 | tene | I sent in a resume to someone that posted a job on uug-list, and we've exchanged a couple of emails. |
| 16:44.10 | *** join/#utah joshc (~josh@jcoates.org) |
| 16:44.35 | onetwig | data entry does not sound fun at all |
| 16:45.08 | tene | it's not, but the tene needs a job badly. |
| 16:45.15 | onetwig | Id prob spend all my time trying to find ways to make it better |
| 16:45.37 | joshc | the valkery needs food badly. |
| 16:45.58 | joshc | er valkyrie |
| 16:46.00 | tene | the tene is about to die. |
| 16:46.03 | joshc | lol |
| 16:46.13 | onetwig | what are your skills tene? |
| 16:46.21 | joshc | drawing skills |
| 16:46.26 | joshc | nunchuka skills |
| 16:46.56 | onetwig | loafter skills?? Im workin on perfecting those :P |
| 16:47.11 | joshc | sweet bike jumps skills |
| 16:47.23 | vontrapp | computer hacking skills |
| 16:47.34 | joshc | irc hax0ring skills |
| 16:49.01 | tene | I don't have too much real experience with anything, but I've played around with a lot of stuff and learn quickly. |
| 16:49.22 | *** join/#utah markl_ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:49.32 | joshc | are you in school tene? |
| 16:50.05 | tene | I was in school at BYU for a couple of semesters, but had to leave because of medical and financial problems. |
| 16:50.26 | tene | the medical is fixed, but the financial isn't, so... no. |
| 16:50.43 | joshc | take out loans |
| 16:50.52 | joshc | its worth it |
| 16:51.10 | mknapp905 | we have a helpdesk position available here |
| 16:51.32 | mknapp905 | if you send me your resume I'll take a look and pass it on |
| 16:52.12 | joshc | imho the utah technology sector has a chronic problem with their employee base not getting a formal education |
| 16:53.20 | tene | one of the conditions of being readmitted to BYU after my medical withdrawl is holding a steady job for a while. |
| 16:53.46 | joshc | that sounds like a really weird policy. |
| 16:53.53 | tene | helpdesk for what, mknapp905? |
| 16:54.07 | tene | well |
| 16:54.11 | tene | it was something like that |
| 16:54.23 | joshc | uh, i'd check on that. |
| 16:54.29 | joshc | or transfer to uofu |
| 16:54.55 | tene | something like demonstrating that I can be stable enough to pursue an education |
| 16:55.34 | joshc | stable enough to pursue an education? |
| 16:55.47 | joshc | sounds like you need to sit down with a school counselor and find out the real deal. |
| 16:56.15 | tene | Specifically, I manifested bipolar disorder. |
| 16:56.22 | joshc | too much information. ;-) |
| 16:56.30 | mknapp905 | tene, helpdesk for a small company in Sandy |
| 16:56.34 | joshc | but really, you should meet with the counselor |
| 16:56.39 | joshc | and find out how to get back into school |
| 16:56.39 | tene | I did. |
| 16:57.13 | tene | and I also want to hold a job for a while to demonstrate to myself as well. |
| 16:57.22 | joshc | ok |
| 16:57.41 | joshc | i'm just big into the "finish school asap, then work" model |
| 16:57.47 | tene | yeah |
| 16:57.51 | tene | and I'd like to |
| 16:57.54 | levi | tene: I was in a place similar to you, but it's really hard to get back to school once you do have a stable job. |
| 16:58.24 | joshc | i mean, school pretty much sucks in my opinion - its hard and doesnt pay well. ;-) |
| 16:58.37 | tene | oh, levi? |
| 16:58.43 | joshc | but there is no replacing it, so methinks to get it over with asap and move on. |
| 16:59.35 | levi | tene: Won't go into the details, but I decided I needed to prove myself by getting a job, but now it's really hard to get back to school. |
| 17:00.12 | tene | to be admitted, or to focus on it? |
| 17:01.03 | levi | Well, if I want a real CS education, I pretty much have to not work full-time. Giving up my job is a hard decision. |
| 17:01.41 | mknapp905 | anyone running Mailscanner / Postifx / ClamAV on FC2? |
| 17:02.15 | levi | I mean, I could probably take programming classes somewhere at night, but they would be Info Systems type classes. |
| 17:03.56 | joshc | just so we're clear - i'm on records as saying "dropping out of school to work full-time is almost always a really bad move." |
| 17:04.23 | tene | ~logs |
| 17:04.24 | ibot | from memory, logs is http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian, or stats for some channels at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz for apt, ibot, jbot and purl. |
| 17:04.27 | onetwig | mknapp905, I setup a system with that and virtual accounts on rh9.. might be able to help |
| 17:04.37 | joshc | and i'll go on records as saying "white vinyl fences are hideous" and "UDOT doesnt know how to clear freeway accidents" |
| 17:05.20 | tene | I just really don't feel quite like I handle school just yet. |
| 17:05.27 | levi | tene: Anyway, you might consider getting your GEs finished at a community college, then transferring to a university to do your major-related classes. Might help your confidence in your ability to do schoolwork. |
| 17:05.27 | tene | I'm planning on trying again next fall |
| 17:05.41 | onetwig | agrees with Joshc.. I had to and havnt been able to get back since. Ive had alot of doors that didnt even open due to lack of edu, eventhough theres no lack of capability |
| 17:06.08 | levi | Ew, vinyl fences. |
| 17:06.42 | tene | and right now I both need to be doing something and really need the money. |
| 17:07.11 | levi | As long as you're doing temp jobs with the goal of raising money for school, you should be okay. |
| 17:07.24 | levi | The stability of a full-time job is really, really hard to leave, though. |
| 17:08.17 | onetwig | tell me about it levi.. |
| 17:08.56 | levi | The sooner you get school finished the better, though. |
| 17:09.16 | tene | nodnod |
| 17:10.57 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 17:11.39 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@jamestkirk.byu.edu) |
| 17:11.55 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 17:16.06 | goozbach | currently yes... but who knows abt 5 years from now? |
| 17:16.38 | joshc | would it be appropriate to pick on utah culture at this point? |
| 17:16.51 | joshc | or is this a sensitive subject, and in my best interest to just keep quiet? |
| 17:17.03 | tene | I say go right ahead. |
| 17:17.04 | JoshH | if the pluglist can handle it, im sure this channel can handle it :) |
| 17:17.08 | spr | I'm not orginally from here, and make fun of it all the time |
| 17:17.10 | joshc | lol |
| 17:17.14 | goozbach | spill it |
| 17:17.23 | joshc | okay, so what is it about utah that everyone drops out of school so much? |
| 17:17.26 | joshc | i mean, this is weird. |
| 17:17.54 | JoshH | i think part of it is because they get married and have kids at a young age, and its easier to work to support the family than to stay in school and get a masters degree or whatever. |
| 17:17.55 | joshc | i've never met so many software engineers that say "oh, i was in school for like 3 semester, and maybe someday i'll finish" |
| 17:17.59 | JoshH | just a wild guess. |
| 17:18.10 | joshc | but joshh - thats a lame excuse. |
| 17:18.27 | joshc | lots of people get married young and have kids, and go into debt to get through school. |
| 17:18.39 | JoshH | ya true, but then a lot of people dont. |
| 17:18.53 | JoshH | its not a valid excuse, but it is an excuse. |
| 17:18.54 | joshc | right - those lots of people that dont live here. ;-) |
| 17:19.00 | joshc | or so it seems to me. |
| 17:19.05 | joshc | and i'm just wondering why that is. |
| 17:19.08 | mknapp905 | I'm a network guy who went to school for 2 semesters, got bored and dropped, but I've been working in the field for 10 years without too many issues |
| 17:19.23 | goozbach | there are 2 josh's |
| 17:19.33 | JoshH | think of the kind of jobs available in utah too |
| 17:19.40 | JoshH | 99 percent of the tech jobs here can he had without a degree |
| 17:19.44 | goozbach | for a second I thought this was a monoolouge |
| 17:19.45 | JoshH | *be had |
| 17:19.53 | JoshH | we are like the india or mexico of the country |
| 17:19.57 | joshc | lol. |
| 17:20.09 | joshc | agreed, lots of tech jobs dont need a degree |
| 17:20.16 | Jayce^ | joshc, I was that way for a while (well, 3 years, not semesters)... finally finished though |
| 17:20.32 | joshc | but its a stunting career move to skip the degree |
| 17:20.52 | joshc | i've met lots of peopel that would be 10X the engineer they are now if they had their degree, imo. |
| 17:21.29 | joshc | it seems like utah will always be the mexico/india/bulgaria of the software industry if the work force is educated for the bare-minimum skill set. |
| 17:21.40 | joshc | doesnt seem like a good long term strategy to me. |
| 17:21.46 | goozbach | sometimes an engeneer isnt what is needed |
| 17:21.49 | Jayce^ | or they are exported, or they are already employed.. |
| 17:22.18 | Jayce^ | joshc, I think you just happened on a rebound in the industry, I know lots of people who just recently changed jobs, and don't want to move again |
| 17:22.19 | tensai | I wanted to drop out, work for a while maybe. School really sucked that semester. My mom convinced me not to and I'm sure glad now that I listend. |
| 17:22.23 | joshc | there are lots of *smart* people here - i just see LOTS more possible. |
| 17:22.29 | Jayce^ | the highest end people |
| 17:22.54 | joshc | jayce, i'm not talking about recruiting.. |
| 17:23.05 | joshc | i'm just talking about what i've seen |
| 17:23.13 | Jayce^ | I left school for a startup... got burned hard. |
| 17:23.14 | joshc | and maybe my sample pool is slanted one particular way |
| 17:23.15 | goozbach | but yes being looked over just because of the lack of a paper sucks |
| 17:23.36 | joshc | goozbach, i dont know anyone who actually skips over people b/c they dont have paper |
| 17:23.56 | joshc | 2 of the best engineers i have EVER known, and probably will ever know actually dropped out 1 semester shy of graduating. |
| 17:23.59 | Jayce^ | not in IT anymore, most will go for quality over paper now. |
| 17:24.14 | joshc | so, no - they dont have the paper, but they got a phenomenal education. |
| 17:24.24 | joshc | one was at cornell and the other at berkeley |
| 17:25.23 | joshc | LOL |
| 17:25.33 | Jayce^ | nah, monday is a holiday |
| 17:25.42 | WoodsDog | ahh..he will take the day off |
| 17:25.42 | joshc | sorry guys, but #utah has become my decompression chamber |
| 17:25.53 | Jayce^ | welcome to irc :) |
| 17:26.04 | WoodsDog | joshc: i really don't mind...you bring up intersting points |
| 17:26.06 | goozbach | meh! |
| 17:26.18 | Jayce^ | ~lart interesting points |
| 17:26.22 | goozbach | the discussion is great |
| 17:26.39 | joshc | well, thats good - i like discussions |
| 17:26.53 | JoshH | ya |
| 17:27.06 | JoshH | ive seen some fine discussions in here |
| 17:27.15 | joshc | who writes these larts? they are pretty funny. |
| 17:27.34 | tene | ~help addlart |
| 17:27.45 | tene | hmm, guess that wasn't ibot... |
| 17:27.49 | Jayce^ | all the channels that the bot is in.. which is quite a few |
| 17:28.02 | joshc | actually, aside from the occasional interview disaster, things are going really well on my end. i think this "utah thing" is going to work out. |
| 17:28.14 | Jayce^ | coolio |
| 17:28.51 | joshc | ~lart brigham |
| 17:29.04 | joshc | brigham, destroy ibot |
| 17:29.20 | joshc | i cant seem to figure out how to get those two guys to fight each other |
| 17:29.39 | joshc | hey, i went to a battle bots tourney a couple years ago on treasure island |
| 17:29.43 | joshc | it was uber fun |
| 17:29.53 | joshc | the bots are lots bigger than they seem on tv |
| 17:29.57 | levi | "vacuum cleaner sucks up budgie.... ooooooh! byebye!" |
| 17:30.06 | JoshH | are you not from utah joshc? |
| 17:30.14 | joshc | no, im from sf,ca |
| 17:30.29 | JoshH | lol, that must be quite a culture shock |
| 17:30.35 | joshc | a little bit |
| 17:31.03 | levi | I just visited sf a couple of weeks ago. |
| 17:31.17 | joshc | fun. business or pleasure? |
| 17:31.28 | levi | Business, but I had time for pleasure in the evenings. |
| 17:31.41 | levi | I was at a workshop in Sonoma, but I drove down to SF to visit a friend. |
| 17:31.53 | JoshH | you came from a place where men have husbands, to a place where men have 10 wives. :) |
| 17:31.56 | joshc | cool. sonoma is where the race track is. ;-) |
| 17:32.03 | joshc | lol joshh |
| 17:32.20 | joshc | it used to be sear point raceway, but they changed the name - i cant remember |
| 17:32.31 | joshc | did you go anywhere fun in sf? |
| 17:32.49 | levi | Didn't see the track, but it would have been fun to drive on, I'm sure, if I had something other than a beat up Sentra. |
| 17:32.49 | joshc | btw, they are called 'life partners' not husbands. ;-) |
| 17:33.03 | JoshH | heh |
| 17:33.06 | joshc | you can your sentra down the 1/4 mile for $7 |
| 17:33.20 | joshc | i used to race there when i was in highschool |
| 17:33.33 | levi | Just some crazy place on Haight St. There was an Indian restuarant we went to. |
| 17:33.55 | levi | Ended up parking next to some Medicinal Marijuana club or something. |
| 17:34.02 | joshc | yep. that's home. |
| 17:34.03 | JoshH | i wanna go to SF and check out chinatown, the bridge, alcatraz, and the restaraunts. |
| 17:34.12 | JoshH | and the MM club |
| 17:34.26 | JoshH | this glaucoma is killing me |
| 17:34.30 | neybar | I am most likely heading to the bay area around easter |
| 17:34.37 | joshc | lol - i hope you're kidding |
| 17:35.02 | JoshH | half kidding |
| 17:35.08 | levi | It's absolutely insane how many restaurants there are in SF. |
| 17:35.55 | joshc | lots of people to feed |
| 17:36.08 | joshc | but there are actually only about 700,000 people that live in the city |
| 17:36.12 | onetwig | lots of MUNCHIES |
| 17:36.13 | onetwig | lol |
| 17:36.19 | JoshH | lol |
| 17:36.22 | joshc | but during the day it swells to 2-3x that many |
| 17:36.51 | joshc | and if you include the peninsula, southbay and eastbay you are looking at 10M or so |
| 17:37.54 | JoshH | so about the same number as utah, idaho, nevada, wyoming, and new mexico combined, maybe |
| 17:38.20 | JoshH | thats crowded |
| 17:39.07 | levi | The nice thing about SF is that there are restaurants everywhere, and they're not chain restaurants. |
| 17:39.43 | levi | Stupid suburbs, full of chain restaurants. |
| 17:39.47 | JoshH | i think i read somewhere that the wasatch front had the highest number of eating establishments per capita in the country, but its mostly chains. |
| 17:39.54 | joshc | sf still has the chains, but they are well hidden |
| 17:40.07 | JoshH | SLC has gotten quite a bit better as far as restaraunts over the last few years though. |
| 17:40.13 | levi | Sometimes it's comforting to eat at a chain, but only occasionally. |
| 17:40.27 | joshc | i like wendys |
| 17:40.55 | onetwig | I dont like fast food.. It makes me tired. |
| 17:41.04 | onetwig | slows down my brain |
| 17:41.06 | levi | I wouldn't want them to not exist, but it's frustrating when good restaurants get replaced by chains around here, or new developments go in full of chain restaurants. |
| 17:41.29 | joshc | its a function of the population. |
| 17:41.31 | levi | The Wasatch Front has got to have one of the highest theater seat per capita counts, too. |
| 17:41.36 | joshc | if more people lived here, it'd be different |
| 17:42.07 | onetwig | its also a matter of what the "gen pub" can afford.. |
| 17:42.12 | joshc | chains have their business model already optimized, so even in a low population area, it will usually work |
| 17:42.32 | levi | The restuarant I went to in SF wasn't very expensive. |
| 17:42.37 | joshc | nice eateries dont need to be expensive |
| 17:42.52 | levi | Certainly there are expensive ones, but plenty are priced about the same, or less, than chains. |
| 17:42.59 | joshc | its just that if you open a new establishment in a low population area, you're going down |
| 17:43.00 | onetwig | true, but how often can you get a whole meal for $5, and not have to pay a tip? |
| 17:43.23 | levi | That's not just a chain, that's a fast food chain. |
| 17:43.41 | onetwig | sorry. I guess I missed that part.. |
| 17:44.18 | levi | And I'm sure there are places that will get you a whole meal for $5 in SF that are not chains, too. |
| 17:44.28 | joshc | in chinatown |
| 17:44.55 | vontrapp | you can get a whole meal here at selena's for $5 |
| 17:45.03 | vontrapp | and that aint no chain |
| 17:45.27 | joshc | i heard someone bought out rio's for $26M here in utah |
| 17:45.36 | JoshH | lunch specials are what to look for |
| 17:45.38 | joshc | i understand there are 5-6 of em |
| 17:45.50 | levi | I'm not saying chains are bad. They've got consistency, and you can find one you like that's everywhere. But I wish the ratio of chains to independants was different. |
| 17:45.58 | levi | joshc: Cafe Rio? That place is booming. |
| 17:46.10 | joshc | yeah, thats what i heard. cafe rio just got sold |
| 17:46.21 | JoshH | indeed they are. i actually like barbacoa better though. |
| 17:46.28 | JoshH | barbacoa has the best burrito on earth IMO. |
| 17:46.29 | levi | They've just built a ton of them, and they're always packed. |
| 17:46.56 | tensai | there's a great independent sandwich place here. so much better and cheaper than subway. |
| 17:47.02 | joshc | there a bunch of really great burrito shops in sfbay that are holes in the wall |
| 17:47.12 | joshc | cafe rio just jazzed it up and franchised it |
| 17:47.15 | joshc | so good for them |
| 17:47.51 | onetwig | good hole in the wall... Red Iguana in north slc.. |
| 17:47.56 | JoshH | oh ya |
| 17:47.59 | JoshH | red iguana is awesome |
| 17:48.20 | JoshH | caputos by pioneer park is a great place for a sandwich too. |
| 17:48.27 | joshc | i guess i meant 'hole in the wall' more literally. like closet-size establishments. |
| 17:48.28 | JoshH | they have the best meatball sandwich i know of. |
| 17:48.40 | levi | There was an independant sandwich shop nearby here, but it died during the 123rd S. construction. :( |
| 17:48.41 | joshc | but i'll have to go check out red iguana sometime, i've heard its good |
| 17:49.21 | JoshH | su casa is good for a lunch, you can get a burrito, tostada, rice/beans, and unlimited chips and salsa for like 4 bucks at lunch. |
| 17:49.26 | levi | Downtown is too far away for me to go for lunch. I'm stuck in chain-land. |
| 17:49.47 | levi | Actually, Thanksgiving Point's deli has some good sandwiches. |
| 17:49.51 | Jayce^ | I'm sure if hans was listening, he'd be plugging selena's :) |
| 17:49.56 | levi | I usually just bring lunch, though. |
| 17:50.06 | hans | von already did, and I just got here |
| 17:50.09 | Jayce^ | ah |
| 17:50.16 | hans | wireless as of monday. but it's still a bit far for levi |
| 17:50.20 | joshc | thanksgiving point is so weird. |
| 17:50.31 | Jayce^ | can't wait for the cabela's to go in there.. |
| 17:50.36 | Jayce^ | venison steaks :) |
| 17:50.41 | JoshH | mmmm |
| 17:50.54 | JoshH | now thats what i call a reason to go to utah county. :) |
| 17:51.01 | levi | joshc: What do you mean? |
| 17:51.06 | Jayce^ | going to be great when that's open.. |
| 17:51.14 | JoshH | Jayce^: when is it supposed to open anyway? |
| 17:51.16 | joshc | isnt it obvious why thanksgiving point is weird? |
| 17:51.17 | Jayce^ | it'll suck for the first month though, will be way crowded.. |
| 17:51.21 | onetwig | fricken massive |
| 17:51.21 | Jayce^ | end of year isn't it? |
| 17:51.24 | JoshH | ive been to the cabelas in nebraska |
| 17:51.56 | joshc | first off, the names is bizzare. |
| 17:51.58 | Jayce^ | I've been to the PA one |
| 17:52.04 | JoshH | its crazy... this HUGE awesome store just out in the middle of the plains. |
| 17:52.36 | joshc | and its kinda like "hi, we just spend a zillion dollars on this upscale "mall" place, um - please spend money here." |
| 17:52.44 | joshc | i dunno - it's weird. |
| 17:53.00 | joshc | someone must have some kind of vision i dont see i guess |
| 17:53.05 | onetwig | someday the cities will become giant malls just so we can breath decent oxygen |
| 17:53.15 | joshc | ooh - like judge dredd? |
| 17:53.24 | joshc | that was a great comic books |
| 17:53.29 | vontrapp | joshc: was there chipotle's in sf? |
| 17:53.30 | joshc | er, book. i never saw the movie though. |
| 17:53.42 | vontrapp | good place |
| 17:53.44 | joshc | von - maybe. i dont recall. |
| 17:54.06 | vontrapp | sweet burritos |
| 17:54.13 | spr | ~lart windows boxen compiling java |
| 17:54.30 | mknapp905 | grrr not lunch time yet... knock it off making me hungry!!! |
| 17:54.35 | spr | ~lart windows boxen compiling java |
| 17:54.35 | levi | joshc: Well, I think the story behind it is that the WordPerfect founders were thankful for their millions and wanted to make something beautiful. |
| 17:54.49 | spr | ibot's just not working for me today.. |
| 17:55.26 | joshc | levi - well, i'm not sure that was the best use of their money. :-/ |
| 17:55.44 | joshc | but that garden thing w/ the noahs ark water playground is kind of cool. |
| 17:55.55 | levi | joshc: I dunno, it seems to be doing pretty well. |
| 17:56.27 | joshc | levi - you're kidding, right? they must be losing money like a sieve |
| 17:56.36 | neybar | joshc: I agree on the Thanksgiving Point thing. I still haven't figured out why they are there. |
| 17:57.32 | onetwig | Ive spoken with someone who is into the devel of TP and was told they are working on plans to put in an amusement park, larger than lagoon behind TP |
| 17:57.37 | joshc | do some quick math, and you'll find it hard to believe that they are even coming close to covering their costs |
| 17:57.42 | levi | joshc: Well, maybe they are, but they keep adding to it anyway. |
| 17:58.03 | tensai | hans: so who broke utwaa.org website? |
| 17:58.11 | joshc | levi, yes - they must have a big budget, and long term plans |
| 17:58.14 | Jayce^ | joshc, they made a lot off the sale of the land around it (tract housing, etc.) |
| 17:59.14 | joshc | jayce, yep - i'm sure they are covering the costs somehow, but its certainly not selling museum and theatre tickets or selling nicknacks at their gift shop. |
| 17:59.34 | joshc | xango is building another building out there |
| 17:59.45 | joshc | is xango like another MLM based on herbs? |
| 17:59.55 | Jayce^ | they just sold to a couple of hotels who are now going to build there |
| 18:00.03 | joshc | hey, and whats with utah and MLMs?? i guess thats a whole other subject. |
| 18:00.28 | joshc | okay, maybe we'll save the utah-MLM topic for monday. :-) |
| 18:00.33 | joshc | i should get back to work. |
| 18:00.40 | onetwig | thinks of scenes from "my big fat utah wedding" at western star dinner/theater.. |
| 18:00.47 | joshc | ttyl |
| 18:00.50 | Jayce^ | joshc, you can't do that, that's one of my big rants :) |
| 18:00.53 | joshc | lol |
| 18:00.56 | joshc | aw c'mon.. |
| 18:01.22 | joshc | ok, lets hear it. |
| 18:01.27 | joshc | why are there so many MLMs in utah? |
| 18:01.30 | mrpull | joshc... just complain about the utah drivers and you'll complete the california-transplant-trifecta |
| 18:01.47 | Jayce^ | first, coprorate friendly towards that type of business |
| 18:02.00 | Jayce^ | second, mlm's made it big in the LDS family/ward type functions at first |
| 18:02.08 | joshc | that type? like the state doessnt prosecutre fraud? |
| 18:02.11 | Jayce^ | third, #$@4 cheap labor for building the stuff |
| 18:02.16 | joshc | hehe |
| 18:02.44 | Jayce^ | nah, more of one that's friendly to a smaller company with 'distributors' |
| 18:02.48 | levi | onetwig: Desert Star, you mean? |
| 18:02.50 | Jayce^ | that aren't really paid |
| 18:03.02 | onetwig | lol, yeah.. |
| 18:03.31 | joshc | http://www.mlmwatch.org/ |
| 18:03.46 | *** join/#utah RyanE (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 18:03.46 | joshc | there are a bunch of utah companies listed here |
| 18:04.00 | Jayce^ | huge number of them based here |
| 18:04.11 | Jayce^ | a very large number are splits/startups from some of the early ones.. |
| 18:04.31 | joshc | but IIRC melaluca (sp?) was idaho based |
| 18:04.39 | Jayce^ | that's another reason.. Utah tends to trap people (they stay here), and people who made a lot of money with one older mlm, often start their own |
| 18:05.43 | joshc | so it sounds like your theory is basically "a while back, a few folks started them, and they sort of self-propogate" |
| 18:05.54 | joshc | is that right? |
| 18:06.00 | onetwig | MLM of and MLM! |
| 18:06.08 | onetwig | and = an |
| 18:06.30 | Jayce^ | joshc, for quite a few, that's not *all* of it, but it is responsible for a large number of them |
| 18:06.56 | tensai | melaluca is based in Idaho Falls |
| 18:07.04 | levi | I think that the culture here is not very skeptical, so exaggerated claims of MLM products get taken seriously. |
| 18:07.10 | Jayce^ | every MLM builds on the concept of making your own business, so when somebody made a lot with one decides to go out, they do what they know best,and start their own |
| 18:07.50 | joshc | do you think this ties into the 'drop out of school' thing at all? |
| 18:08.07 | joshc | not being facetious. |
| 18:08.12 | Jayce^ | not really.. |
| 18:08.20 | joshc | i mean, in a cultural sense |
| 18:08.24 | neybar | plus your ward is an instant "network" so you can hit up all the suckers^H^H^H^H^H^H^H your friends there |
| 18:08.38 | mknapp905 | sure you could drop out of school and get a job duing MLM and make $244,000 next week, just like the sign says! |
| 18:08.41 | Jayce^ | neybar, BTW, you comign over to the 'party' this weekend? :-p |
| 18:08.54 | Jayce^ | work at home mom's is a big utah reason. |
| 18:09.28 | joshc | we've offended brigham |
| 18:09.37 | *** part/#utah mknapp905 (~mknapp905@67.107.203.130.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:09.41 | *** join/#utah mknapp905 (~mknapp905@67.107.203.130.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:09.50 | neybar | utah seems to attact more then just MLM's though, there are lots of spammers and scammers here too. |
| 18:10.27 | Jayce^ | "it is by sad experience that neybar must relate this".. :) |
| 18:10.29 | joshc | a trusting culture |
| 18:10.45 | joshc | thats the "brigham city" theme |
| 18:10.46 | mknapp905 | ~lart MLM |
| 18:11.59 | joshc | offtopic - does anyone know any professional skiptracers? |
| 18:12.13 | joshc | i got $10K for someone if they can collect a judgement for me. |
| 18:12.30 | vontrapp | [OT] drag racing on the salt flats, can anyone do it? would you use your own cars or what? |
| 18:12.45 | joshc | it would chew your car up pretty bad i imagine. |
| 18:12.51 | joshc | salt + car = bad |
| 18:13.01 | levi | vontrapp: There are events where anyone can run... you just have to sign up and meet their safety regs. |
| 18:13.22 | levi | There are 'clubs' for people who exceed certain speeds. |
| 18:13.49 | levi | But you have to have certain safety features to make attempts at different speeds. |
| 18:13.53 | joshc | i guess thats a 'no' on the skiptrace thing. |
| 18:13.57 | joshc | lol |
| 18:14.07 | joshc | its a sad story, involving fraud. :-( |
| 18:14.19 | mknapp905 | does it involve an evil female? |
| 18:14.22 | joshc | lol |
| 18:14.22 | vontrapp | so these events.. they have cars or what? |
| 18:14.32 | joshc | there is an evil female that co-stars in the drama |
| 18:15.04 | Jayce^ | (salt + flat) + car * JATO = awesome |
| 18:15.23 | levi | vontrapp: You bring your own car. |
| 18:15.37 | levi | vontrapp: And you get to drive it really fast in a straight line for a while. |
| 18:15.39 | vontrapp | woohoo, ford festiva on the salt flats!! |
| 18:16.04 | levi | I doubt an unmodified Ford Festiva will give you a very satisfying top speed. |
| 18:16.16 | vontrapp | who do the flats belong to? private company, government? |
| 18:16.28 | levi | If you just want to drag race, might as well use RMR. |
| 18:16.30 | RyanE | http://www.americanpopularculture.com/journal/articles/fall_2003/embry.htm |
| 18:16.49 | joshc | it'd be fun if they did slot car racing |
| 18:16.56 | Jayce^ | vontrapp, I'll race you, I've got my mom's old 86 tercel wagon this weekend (prepping it for inspection) |
| 18:17.04 | joshc | then it doesnt matter how slow your car is |
| 18:17.07 | joshc | it's still super fun |
| 18:17.44 | levi | Yeah, if you're racing against cars of a similar class. |
| 18:17.57 | levi | But if you're just attempting to make your car go fast, and it tops out at 130... |
| 18:18.24 | joshc | i dont recall the terminology - its a type of bracket racing |
| 18:18.32 | joshc | you run your initial race |
| 18:18.33 | vontrapp | a festiva can go that fast?! |
| 18:18.36 | levi | Actually, I drove a Ford Escort that wouldn't go over 70. |
| 18:18.40 | joshc | and mark your car w/ a time |
| 18:18.59 | joshc | then you go up against another car, and the tree light goes green at different times for each of you |
| 18:19.03 | vontrapp | levi: what is RMR? |
| 18:19.03 | joshc | based on your previous runs |
| 18:19.10 | levi | vontrapp: Rocky Mountain Raceway. |
| 18:19.16 | Jayce^ | drag |
| 18:19.28 | joshc | that way it's a real race, ya know? even a festiva vs. mustang is really fun - because the festiva could win. |
| 18:19.38 | levi | Sounds interesting. |
| 18:19.42 | RyanE | http://www.saltflats.com/ |
| 18:19.54 | RyanE | all your salt flats racing info |
| 18:20.36 | joshc | ttyl folks. :-) |
| 18:20.36 | *** part/#utah joshc (~josh@jcoates.org) |
| 18:20.37 | onetwig | Ive thought about taking my R1 out there, but I dont want to be cleaning to salt out of it for days after.. |
| 18:20.49 | RyanE | so you keep it in the garage all winter also? |
| 18:20.50 | RyanE | : |
| 18:20.51 | RyanE | : |
| 18:20.59 | Jayce^ | get the turbo kit for my tahoe and go out there :) |
| 18:21.01 | RyanE | dang paren... :) |
| 18:21.33 | Jayce^ | they have a kit for my engine, it'll make the suburban do a sub 6-second 0-60... |
| 18:21.38 | Jayce^ | put that in the tahoe, and watch the fun |
| 18:21.39 | onetwig | r1 is a motorcyle so I dont ride it in the winter.. Its in storage now :( cant wait to let it out again! |
| 18:21.47 | levi | Turbo kits are fun! |
| 18:21.51 | RyanE | aha. Makes sense now. |
| 18:22.27 | onetwig | check dis out: |
| 18:22.28 | onetwig | http://www.gonetstat.com/gallery/Pahrump |
| 18:22.29 | levi | If you are skilled enough with fabrication and EFI tuning techniques, you can put a turbo on anything. |
| 18:22.40 | Jayce^ | yeah, that would *not* be me :) |
| 18:22.57 | hans | tensai: broke? |
| 18:22.58 | onetwig | I can turbo my bike and get over 250hp, but I think 160 is enough for it |
| 18:23.20 | tensai | hans: /cgi-bin/mailman doesn't work anymore :( |
| 18:23.25 | levi | I have a book that explains a bunch of theory and implementation details for turbocharging. |
| 18:23.39 | hans | is everyone ready for the mystery of the day? |
| 18:23.40 | levi | It's very interesting. |
| 18:23.44 | levi | hans: Sure! |
| 18:23.49 | hans | tensai: sweet! I have something to blame on sjansen! |
| 18:24.26 | hans | one customer on dsl in arizona (qwest dsl) can't get to our website which is on a colocated box at xmission |
| 18:24.45 | onetwig | traceroute |
| 18:24.53 | hans | I called up xmission, they can't see anything wrong. we had her do a traceroute, it makes it to er3-colo.slc.xmission.net which is the last hop before our webserver |
| 18:25.17 | hans | I've taken down the firewall and had her try, to no effect. xmission has looked through qwest's "looking glass" and seems fine. |
| 18:25.45 | hans | every place out of xmission's network that I and the xmission guys have tried has no trouble getting to the website (www.wencor.com) |
| 18:26.24 | onetwig | did you try having her use the IP instead of DN to get to the site? |
| 18:26.32 | hans | tensai: but /mailman without the /cgi-bin does work |
| 18:26.35 | levi | "Heh heh... he said wencor!" |
| 18:26.55 | tensai | The requested URL /mailman was not found on this server. |
| 18:26.59 | hans | onetwig: hmm, no I didn't try that. doh |
| 18:27.13 | tensai | hans: you mean like this: |
| 18:27.14 | tensai | 13 cr1-border.slc.xmission.net (166.70.4.10) 145.405 ms 128.112 ms 133.958 ms |
| 18:27.14 | tensai | 14 er3-colo.slc.xmission.net (166.70.4.81) 137.342 ms 151.150 ms 132.051 ms |
| 18:27.14 | tensai | 15 * * * |
| 18:27.22 | hans | you're having the same trouble? |
| 18:27.25 | tensai | yup |
| 18:27.40 | hans | that's good to hear. would you mind a 3-way call with xmission? |
| 18:27.49 | RyanE | sounds like some routing through their colo router is broken... |
| 18:28.15 | hans | oh wait, now I am having the same problem with traceroute |
| 18:28.18 | JoshH | just talk to them on irc |
| 18:28.37 | hans | it's such a pain to find the info on what the other server is. :) |
| 18:28.40 | vontrapp | same traceroute problem here |
| 18:28.59 | hans | if only they had a freenode channel. :) |
| 18:29.11 | JoshH | ircd.xmission.com #xminfo or something |
| 18:29.45 | JoshH | bonez39 got some help from them there the other day |
| 18:30.39 | Maquis | http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/children/kidtalk.mspx |
| 18:30.46 | bonez41 | JoshH: they are pretty responsive..in the #xmlounge |
| 18:31.10 | bonez41 | at irc.xmission.com #xmlounge |
| 18:33.22 | *** join/#utah hans (fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 18:41.20 | *** join/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.116) |
| 18:49.27 | Maquis | for all of the doom fans/sysadmins out there: http://psdoom.sourceforge.net/ |
| 18:49.34 | Maquis | that's one of the coolest ideas i've seen |
| 18:50.27 | levi | Maquis: Obviously you weren't reading Slashdot several years ago. ;) |
| 18:50.42 | Maquis | no... i wasn't reading it several years ago... |
| 18:50.53 | Maquis | i didn't know that it existed back then... |
| 18:51.59 | Jayce^ | remember when you could kill pid 1 ? :) |
| 18:52.58 | levi | Won't let you do that anymore? |
| 18:53.25 | Jayce^ | supposedly they fixed it... because it would always be there, and ready to kill, easily.. |
| 18:58.05 | levi | 1 = init |
| 18:58.13 | levi | The parent of all processes. |
| 18:58.38 | mrpull | and when you kill it, it kills all of the child processes with it |
| 18:59.16 | vontrapp | when you wound a process, that nices it, right? |
| 18:59.17 | mrpull | and your production server that you are admining remotely is no longer reachable |
| 19:00.47 | Maquis | oh...right... |
| 19:00.50 | Maquis | vontrapp: yup |
| 19:00.57 | Maquis | just be careful not to kill it... |
| 19:03.34 | hans | it was the firewall after all |
| 19:03.52 | hans | when I "took down" the firewall I didn't notice that shorewall had left the policy as drop. man I hate shorewall. |
| 19:04.49 | hans | "Please unblock qwestdex.com, we were told last year that due to phonebook |
| 19:04.51 | hans | shortages we should utilize this website" |
| 19:05.05 | hans | well if there's a phonebook shortage it hasn't made it to my house! |
| 19:05.13 | RyanE | and it's dexonline.com now |
| 19:05.45 | hans | doh, I accidentally removed my proxy switcher extesion |
| 19:07.19 | Bradipo | hans: No problem doing traceroute to www.wencor.com here. |
| 19:07.48 | Bradipo | I assume that is because you took down the firewall, I didn't test before you did that. |
| 19:07.48 | hans | yeah. I still don't know why she was getting filtered by our firewall. I blame shorewall. |
| 19:08.16 | hans | Bradipo: au contraire, tensai couldn't after I "took down" the firewall, but could after. |
| 19:08.29 | hans | I brought it back up. actually I haven't brought it back up, just fixed the policy |
| 19:15.14 | Maquis | ummmmm. |
| 19:15.53 | Maquis | so, i was looking around at scholar.google.com, and i did a search for "Open Source Software"... |
| 19:16.04 | Maquis | apparently that's on BYU's "Custom Block List" |
| 19:16.09 | levi | Heh. |
| 19:16.38 | Maquis | i'm at a loss as to what i should think about this.... |
| 19:16.57 | Maquis | "Open Source" is blocked too...' |
| 19:17.09 | Maquis | but i can search for Linux without a problem |
| 19:17.42 | Maquis | ooh... |
| 19:17.46 | Maquis | now this is interesting... |
| 19:17.59 | Maquis | actually, it's only blocked if you search from the toolbar on a page of results |
| 19:18.05 | levi | Bizarre. |
| 19:18.07 | Maquis | if you search from the main page, it works fine... |
| 19:18.50 | Maquis | and if you click the button to get the next page of results, it's blocked |
| 19:20.40 | levi | This is why I hate content filters. |
| 19:20.45 | Maquis | yeah... |
| 19:21.06 | Maquis | byu's is particularly bad |
| 19:38.26 | hans | Maquis: try this |
| 19:38.26 | hans | https://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=firefox&version=1.0&os=Windows&category=Privacy%20and%20Security&numpg=10&id=448 |
| 19:43.28 | Maquis | hans: doesn't work against byu's filtering... |
| 19:48.03 | Maquis | does anybody here have a bookmark list at del.icio.us? |
| 19:48.14 | Maquis | i'm looking for new things to add to mine |
| 19:49.06 | hans | no, all I know of delicious is that it looks terrible in rss aggregators so I haven't bothered |
| 19:49.38 | Maquis | ah... |
| 19:49.38 | Jayce^ | ~lart msnbot for ignoring robots directives |
| 19:49.48 | Jayce^ | ~kill msnbot for ignoring robots directives |
| 19:49.50 | ibot | ACTION shoots a anti-neutrino gun at msnbot for ignoring robots directives |
| 19:50.09 | Maquis | i'm liking it, because a week ago i accidentally broke firefox in such a way that it deleted all my bookmarks again... |
| 19:50.31 | Maquis | this'll prevent that from happening again |
| 20:07.18 | *** join/#utah brailsmt (~michael@adsl-66-142-236-67.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 20:14.31 | hans | did sjansen ever spring to life? |
| 20:21.03 | tensai | hans: he was here last night |
| 20:22.21 | RyanE | they said he was training, so I'd expect him back at nights only |
| 20:34.07 | *** join/#utah beandog (~sdibb@64.50.56.200) |
| 20:39.24 | *** topic/#utah by beandog -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See plug.org, uug.byu.edu, sllug.org, fslc.usu.edu, etc. Utah Windows Admins Anonymous: http://plug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/waa |
| 20:50.14 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@67-137-128-172.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 20:54.56 | *** join/#utah flyboy^ (~flyboy@69.20.57.22) |
| 20:55.02 | *** join/#utah spr_ (~spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 20:55.03 | *** join/#utah spr__ (~spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 21:01.14 | hans | beandog: what's going on with the urls? |
| 21:33.49 | sncs | http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,59305,00.html :o |
| 21:38.49 | Jayce^ | yeah, that was from quite a while ago |
| 21:39.21 | hans | sweet. I found a Better Aggregator |
| 21:39.36 | hans | Sage firefox extension. you want it. |
| 21:39.46 | Jayce^ | link? |
| 21:41.41 | hans | http://www.google.com/search?q=sage+firefox+extension&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial |
| 21:41.47 | hans | ;-) |
| 21:42.21 | hans | auto discovery of links on most sites, and a spiffy newspaper-like overview |
| 21:43.35 | hans | www.xmission.com/~fugalh/ss.jpg |
| 21:44.36 | beandog | hans: waiting for sjansen to fix it |
| 21:44.42 | beandog | What port does svnserver listen on |
| 21:45.14 | beandog | er, n/m. Its not even running. |
| 21:47.02 | Jayce^ | very nice |
| 21:56.32 | hans | heh, xmlounge is fun. some crazy guy comes in trying to pick a fight about utah, comes and goes a couple of times. they tell him to go to #utah on freenode.net (looks like he didn't) and finally: |
| 21:56.50 | hans | 12:36 -!- User462 [www@chat.xmission.com] has quit [Client Quit] |
| 21:56.51 | hans | 12:38 <@mp> damn. somehow that guy fell into a null route. i wonder how that |
| 21:56.51 | hans | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:57.22 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 21:57.33 | Jayce^ | funny how they tried to send him here.. |
| 21:57.44 | hans | tht1guy was the one |
| 21:58.40 | Bradipo | tht1guy was the one what? |
| 21:58.53 | hans | that tried to pawn him off on us. ;-) |
| 21:59.00 | Bradipo | Haha. |
| 21:59.25 | Bradipo | I went to high school with tht1guy, but he doesn't work for Xmission. |
| 21:59.50 | hans | must be like me, just hanging out in xmlounge |
| 21:59.55 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 22:00.02 | Bradipo | I hang out there sometimes too. |
| 22:00.07 | Bradipo | xmlounge is great. |
| 22:00.51 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@translate.sento.com) |
| 22:01.12 | *** join/#utah fishtaco (~gabe@208.187.28.250) |
| 22:02.07 | hans | xmission is great. like a dream |
| 22:02.45 | levi | I don't know if I'd go that far... |
| 22:03.49 | JoshH | they are definitely up there with the best |
| 22:04.52 | hans | levi: I would. I deal with them for my home account (very little) and at work (more often) and now for the restaurant |
| 22:05.12 | hans | never seen better customer service in any field, let alone network/isp |
| 22:05.19 | levi | Yeah, but I don't generally dream about interacting with ISPs. :) |
| 22:05.31 | levi | I certainly have no complaints, though. |
| 22:07.09 | hans | and most people don't dream about writing lisp, either. ;-) |
| 22:07.38 | scott_ | hans, is there a way to get sage to show you all posts from all feeds on one page ordered by date? |
| 22:07.38 | JoshH | if i didnt have arosnet, i would probably have xmission |
| 22:07.49 | scott_ | or, not divide by feed source |
| 22:26.31 | hans | brailsmt: what's cool about it? it didn't have any user feedback |
| 22:26.45 | hans | scott_: not that I'm aware of, but sounds like a good idea. |
| 22:37.49 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@71.32.230.91) |
| 22:49.49 | *** join/#utah emcnabb-treo (~upirc@001-737-266.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:54.24 | *** part/#utah emcnabb-treo (~upirc@001-737-266.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:54.44 | *** join/#utah emcnabb-treo (~upirc@001-737-266.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 23:02.40 | *** join/#utah natester (~me@67.50.46.118) |
| 23:03.09 | natester | anyone know how to get the splash screen to show without showing startup messages? |
| 23:03.24 | natester | not windows... |
| 23:06.24 | spr | splash=silent for the kernel options for me |
| 23:07.35 | natester | spr: yes works for me too |
| 23:08.07 | natester | spr: but there are still messages about daemons starting |
| 23:09.36 | spr | oh. hm. To me that's pretty silent i guess. I think there's a way to edit the splash image, but that's out of my area |
| 23:11.32 | *** part/#utah bucky (~bucky@67-137-128-172.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 23:13.21 | Bradipo | debug=quiet |
| 23:13.39 | Bradipo | Or maybe even vga=none or something like that. :-) |
| 23:13.56 | Bradipo | Unless of course you need a non X console. |
| 23:22.03 | tensai | I like booting with a serial console coupled with bios console redirection. not quite like an ip kvm but pretty close. |
| 23:22.51 | onetwig | need some help w/hardware for sata raid 1 |
| 23:23.15 | onetwig | got a board and found it used fake-raid, & doesnt have drivers for fc3 |
| 23:23.36 | onetwig | tried an adaptec raid 1210sa and its fakeraid also, no drivers for fc3 |
| 23:24.26 | onetwig | for an athlon 64 processor, (intel ichr5 has sort of real raid) does the nforce3 chipset support non-software raid? |
| 23:35.14 | scott_ | you can even read your gmail with sage |
| 23:40.20 | *** part/#utah RyanE (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 23:43.27 | scott_ | cool, it's as easy as making a css stylesheet to customize sage's look |
| 23:44.16 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 23:50.36 | Newsome | Jayce^: Is someone having a heart attack at your place of employment? |
| 23:51.41 | Newsome | Isn't it Jayce^ that works at IDI in Orem? |
| 23:52.11 | Newsome | Just saw an ambulance and fire truck there. |
| 23:52.16 | hans | how to dump an object in perl? |
| 23:52.27 | hans | e.g. for debugging |
| 23:53.04 | tensai | hans: there's a really good way but I don't recall what it is |
| 23:53.14 | tensai | none of my programs ever have bugs |
| 23:53.23 | hans | ah, that explains it |
| 23:53.35 | tensai | data dumper? |
| 23:53.44 | hans | sounds familiar. how do you use it? |
| 23:54.12 | vontrapp | ~lart logistically cramped problems |
| 23:54.15 | tensai | http://www.xav.com/perl/lib/Data/Dumper.html |
| 23:56.13 | hans | thx |
| 23:56.52 | tensai | print Data::Dumper->Dump($foo); |