| 00:00.54 | Bradipo | Well, the other isn't a list. |
| 00:00.56 | Bradipo | Its a file. |
| 00:01.02 | Bradipo | That just has a bunch of information in it. |
| 00:01.26 | Bradipo | So, one is a list, the other is a text file with possible matches of items in the list. |
| 00:01.30 | goozbach | ohh |
| 00:01.42 | Bradipo | I think I'll just formulate a big regexp with | separating the list elements. |
| 00:01.48 | goozbach | sounds like a regex |
| 00:01.50 | goozbach | for perl |
| 00:01.50 | Bradipo | But I wanted to see if there was a creative way for doing it. :-) |
| 00:02.01 | goozbach | sounds like a perl oneliner |
| 00:02.09 | Bradipo | Oh yeah? |
| 00:02.21 | Bradipo | I'm not a perl guru, so if you can rattle it off the top... |
| 00:02.30 | Bradipo | I could easily do it with egrep as I suggested. |
| 00:02.50 | Bradipo | Just convert all \n to | |
| 00:02.52 | goozbach | I didn't say I could rattle it off, I'd have to put some thought towards it which I cannot do at the moment |
| 00:02.59 | Bradipo | And run it through egrep. |
| 00:04.38 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 00:14.41 | findlay | ~lart manti telephone |
| 00:27.17 | bonez41 | is there any law I can hang spammers on? I get spam from Vonage..not from Vonage, but some one posing as Vonage....for VOIP... |
| 00:27.34 | mheath | bonez41: thats fraud |
| 00:27.52 | mheath | Which is illegal |
| 00:28.15 | mheath | But chances are, theres nothing you can legally do that will have much of an effect. |
| 00:36.31 | bonez41 | yeah..that's my point exactly....this group is from miami...it includes their address...and yet Vonage is based in New Jersey...I keep getting spam email from them..I want to hang them.....how do I find an attorney that will go after them? |
| 00:37.09 | bonez41 | so really not much I can do...if they don't unsubscribe me...if I respond to their unsubscribe link....aren't they obligated to unsubscribe me? |
| 00:37.59 | mheath | bonez41: contact the ISP |
| 00:38.18 | bonez41 | ok......thanks..I'll check the source for the email and contact them |
| 00:38.24 | mheath | It's not worth getting an attorney. |
| 00:38.27 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 00:38.43 | mheath | You won't get any money out of it. You'd be throwing away money to pay for the attorney. |
| 00:39.27 | mheath | If the ISP ignores you repeatedly, contact the FBI. They're the organization that handles internet-based crimes.' |
| 00:40.01 | mheath | But again, neither the ISP or FBI is likely to care or listen. |
| 00:44.02 | Bradipo | FBI won't even bother unless it involves more than $5,000 loss. |
| 00:48.23 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:58.09 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@byu074602wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 01:13.12 | *** join/#utah markl_ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 01:28.09 | mheath | Ok, moving this server. BRB. |
| 01:34.06 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@12.107.203.245) |
| 01:36.47 | goozbach | sjansen: howdy |
| 01:36.50 | goozbach | guess what... |
| 01:36.54 | sjansen | what? |
| 01:36.54 | brigham | what are they supposed to do |
| 01:37.13 | goozbach | well i got to work today and found out I'm shipping out tomorrow. |
| 01:37.20 | goozbach | for the rest of the week |
| 01:37.22 | sjansen | because of Lamont? |
| 01:37.31 | goozbach | gotta love these last minute classes |
| 01:37.33 | goozbach | yup |
| 01:37.38 | goozbach | ~lart pergrine |
| 01:37.45 | goozbach | oh yeah |
| 01:37.51 | goozbach | beat him to a pulp |
| 01:38.03 | goozbach | I did get out of the two 510 classes however |
| 01:38.19 | sjansen | heh |
| 01:47.45 | sjansen | Based on my first day, I just don't understand the whole SUV thing. |
| 01:51.06 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@c-67-161-213-34.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:53.08 | goozbach | sjansen: I can only see it if you have a large number of people to lug around |
| 01:53.21 | goozbach | my family wouldn't fit in anyting but an SUV |
| 01:54.03 | sjansen | Do stationwagons even exist anymore? |
| 01:56.15 | Maquis | sjansen: long time no see |
| 01:56.16 | goozbach | sure |
| 01:56.30 | goozbach | the audi station-wagon is still a big seller |
| 01:56.43 | Maquis | what's wrong with lamont? |
| 01:56.47 | goozbach | and I count that stupid subuaru thing as a station wagon |
| 01:56.55 | goozbach | shh don't tell fozz |
| 01:57.01 | goozbach | lamont is dead |
| 01:57.04 | sjansen | Too small to be a station wagon. |
| 01:57.10 | goozbach | er dying |
| 01:57.17 | goozbach | er something |
| 01:57.27 | goozbach | methinks he contracted SARS on his vacation |
| 01:57.48 | goozbach | or maybe he has mono/Puenomia/influenza |
| 01:57.52 | sjansen | Yeah, I think he should be forgiven for missing this week. Doesn't sound like he's having much fun, even if the timing was inconvenient. |
| 01:57.54 | Maquis | |lart goozbach |
| 01:58.12 | Maquis | he's sick? |
| 01:58.18 | goozbach | more or less |
| 01:58.18 | sjansen | something bad |
| 01:58.22 | Maquis | ick |
| 01:58.42 | goozbach | I'm just glad he didn't come into the office to get all us infected |
| 01:58.57 | Maquis | really, really sick? |
| 01:59.05 | goozbach | perl perl perl perl perl |
| 01:59.11 | goozbach | fozz: you around? |
| 01:59.54 | sjansen | Doctor thinks he has influenza A and pneumonia. |
| 02:00.00 | Maquis | ick!!!!!! |
| 02:00.03 | Maquis | not fun!! |
| 02:00.35 | goozbach | perl |
| 02:00.36 | goozbach | perl |
| 02:00.45 | goozbach | hmm doesn't seem to be working |
| 02:00.54 | Maquis | goozbach: when you overuse it, it fails... |
| 02:01.32 | goozbach | oh well |
| 02:01.55 | goozbach | sjansen: the really cool sftp client is?... |
| 02:01.59 | goozbach | lftp? |
| 02:01.59 | brigham | Sophisticated command line based FTP client. URL: http://ftp.yars.free.net/projects/lftp/ |
| 02:02.01 | sjansen | lftp |
| 02:02.04 | goozbach | ncftp? |
| 02:02.05 | brigham | UNIX application program implementing the File Transfer Protocol (FTP). URL: http://www.ncftp.com/ |
| 02:02.10 | goozbach | ok thanks |
| 02:02.31 | sjansen | lftp is also a great ftp client |
| 02:02.34 | Maquis | isn't brigham nice and helpful??? |
| 02:02.36 | sjansen | brigham is an annoying idiot |
| 02:02.44 | Maquis | sjansen: :( |
| 02:02.53 | sjansen | A bot shouldn't speak unless spoken to. |
| 02:02.55 | Maquis | brigham is my friend... |
| 02:03.05 | goozbach | brigam is a punk |
| 02:03.11 | mheath | brigham? |
| 02:03.11 | brigham | brigham is the Lion of the Lord |
| 02:03.31 | mheath | Darn :( I was hoping he'd tell me he was a punk. |
| 02:03.52 | sjansen | Say, mheath, been meaning to apologize for going over board a bit the other week. |
| 02:04.16 | Maquis | why does everybody pick on brigham??? |
| 02:04.27 | sjansen | A bot shouldn't speak unless spoken to. |
| 02:04.38 | mheath | sjansen: about what? |
| 02:04.42 | Maquis | i think it's cool that he speaks up when he knows stuff... |
| 02:04.44 | goozbach | he interjects at the most in-opportune times |
| 02:04.53 | goozbach | punk? |
| 02:05.03 | sjansen | what? |
| 02:05.03 | brigham | what are they supposed to do |
| 02:05.11 | Maquis | forget what |
| 02:05.15 | Maquis | what? |
| 02:05.15 | brigham | what are they supposed to do |
| 02:05.16 | sjansen | yeah, that was helpful |
| 02:05.18 | Maquis | |forget what |
| 02:05.19 | brigham | done |
| 02:05.22 | Maquis | there |
| 02:05.25 | goozbach | what? |
| 02:05.39 | goozbach | what is the answer |
| 02:05.42 | goozbach | what? |
| 02:05.43 | brigham | what is the answer |
| 02:05.46 | goozbach | there ya go |
| 02:05.50 | Maquis | :( |
| 02:05.52 | sjansen | |forget brigham |
| 02:05.52 | brigham | okay |
| 02:05.59 | goozbach | |forget what |
| 02:05.59 | brigham | aight |
| 02:06.00 | Maquis | brigham is a good bot |
| 02:06.04 | sjansen | brigham is a noisy punk |
| 02:06.06 | sjansen | |forget brigham |
| 02:06.07 | sjansen | brigham is a noisy punk |
| 02:06.12 | sjansen | brigham? |
| 02:06.19 | goozbach | |never remember what |
| 02:06.26 | goozbach | what? |
| 02:06.26 | Maquis | brigham is a very good bot |
| 02:06.31 | Maquis | now stop picking on him |
| 02:06.35 | sjansen | |duct tape your mouth shut |
| 02:06.36 | Maquis | brigham? |
| 02:06.38 | mheath | brigham: brigham is a noisy punk |
| 02:06.39 | brigham | fine |
| 02:06.43 | mheath | brigham? |
| 02:06.43 | brigham | brigham is a noisy punk |
| 02:06.45 | *** join/#utah javelin99 (~none@c-67-171-117-252.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:06.47 | goozbach | heh |
| 02:06.50 | goozbach | this is fun |
| 02:06.55 | goozbach | this? |
| 02:06.55 | brigham | this is our first programming project |
| 02:07.00 | goozbach | this is also fun |
| 02:07.01 | mheath | This is like.... |
| 02:07.03 | goozbach | this? |
| 02:07.04 | brigham | this is our first programming project or fun |
| 02:07.13 | mheath | I feel like a 6th grade bully |
| 02:07.19 | goozbach | heh |
| 02:07.20 | mheath | "Stop making fun of yourself" |
| 02:07.26 | mheath | brigham? |
| 02:07.27 | brigham | brigham is a noisy punk |
| 02:07.42 | mheath | brigham: stop making fun of yourself |
| 02:09.23 | goozbach | stop hitting yourself |
| 02:09.25 | goozbach | stop hitting yourself |
| 02:10.58 | goozbach | I knew it would work... fozz just showed up on MSN |
| 02:11.00 | goozbach | :) |
| 02:11.17 | Maquis | |lart goozbach and sjansen |
| 02:12.53 | goozbach | ohh tingly |
| 02:13.03 | goozbach | a little lower |
| 02:13.13 | goozbach | ohh yeah that's the spot. |
| 02:17.20 | sjansen | http://mako.yukidoke.org/copyrighteous/reflections/20050211-00.html |
| 02:18.29 | goozbach | heh |
| 02:19.30 | goozbach | ok so when visually verifying md5sums, how many digits do you all verify? |
| 02:19.40 | goozbach | how many is overkill |
| 02:19.47 | sjansen | all of them, they're short enough |
| 02:19.51 | goozbach | how many is not enough |
| 02:20.09 | goozbach | meh |
| 02:20.15 | goozbach | I just did the first 4-5 |
| 02:20.32 | goozbach | you can usually tell right away if they aren't the same |
| 02:44.35 | goozbach | quick quiz... |
| 02:44.41 | goozbach | how does one start apache? |
| 02:44.42 | *** join/#utah fishyfire (~fishyfire@65.105.158.130.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 02:45.12 | fishyfire | So I have an off topic question.... |
| 02:45.15 | sjansen | shutdown -r now? |
| 02:45.34 | fishyfire | Does anyone know of a simple way to find out who your stake missionaries are? |
| 02:45.40 | goozbach | fishyfire: I don't think we've ever benn ON topic |
| 02:45.50 | goozbach | s/benn/been/ |
| 02:45.51 | fishyfire | good then my question will be fine |
| 02:46.02 | goozbach | fishyfire: ask the stake clerk |
| 02:46.05 | fishyfire | didn't think it was too on topic so that's why i was okay asking |
| 02:46.17 | fishyfire | the reason was a couple of them stopped by tonight |
| 02:46.23 | fishyfire | and seemed a little weird |
| 02:46.26 | fishyfire | maybe it was just us |
| 02:46.49 | fishyfire | but we have had people walking into appartments and problems around the place recently |
| 02:46.52 | sjansen | Ask the stake president's assistant, maybe another stake clerks. Clerks always know the most. |
| 02:47.13 | fishyfire | do you think the ward clerk might know? |
| 02:47.32 | goozbach | they may |
| 02:47.49 | goozbach | the stake clerk has access to that information however, it'd be a safer bet |
| 02:47.50 | sjansen | Might, but I'd think the bishop's secretary would be more likely. |
| 02:48.05 | fishyfire | just feel kinda weird calling to ask |
| 02:48.13 | goozbach | don't |
| 02:48.17 | sjansen | nah, just being safe |
| 02:48.24 | goozbach | I did a stint as a ward clerk... |
| 02:48.29 | sjansen | And think of the fame and glory if you solve the mystery! |
| 02:48.31 | goozbach | trust me that question is fine |
| 02:48.35 | fishyfire | LOL |
| 02:48.39 | fishyfire | mystery? |
| 02:48.46 | goozbach | now I have SOME stories.... |
| 02:48.55 | fishyfire | to call and ask what their names are? |
| 02:48.58 | goozbach | none of which I can share |
| 02:49.05 | fishyfire | or to call and ask if these guys were really true? |
| 02:49.16 | goozbach | just call and ask who they are |
| 02:49.22 | goozbach | and leave it at that |
| 02:49.35 | goozbach | the clerk will take good care of you. |
| 02:50.02 | fishyfire | valentine's day night and all? |
| 02:50.23 | goozbach | who knows |
| 02:50.38 | goozbach | I'd think that a monday would cause you more problems than V-day |
| 02:51.30 | sjansen | Valentine's doesn't actually matter to more than 50% of BYU. |
| 02:51.30 | goozbach | tues evening would be the best time to catch the ward/stake clerk |
| 02:52.01 | goozbach | yeah but being a monday night, the clerk may not be there |
| 02:52.06 | fishyfire | yeah.... |
| 02:52.11 | sjansen | Unless you could the overhanging sense of doom and failure. |
| 02:52.29 | fishyfire | huh? |
| 02:53.39 | goozbach | guilt them into answering your question. |
| 02:54.30 | fishyfire | guilt who? |
| 02:54.53 | goozbach | Never Mind |
| 02:55.03 | fishyfire | is it normal for the missionaries to be stopping by single girls appartments? |
| 02:55.24 | *** join/#utah knoppix (~knoppix@67-41-225-193.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:56.05 | sjansen | fishyfire: How old are you? |
| 02:56.11 | fishyfire | why? |
| 02:56.11 | brigham | why is it that IBM has to show its code to AIX, when SCO won't show any code... |
| 02:56.29 | fishyfire | do you ask ? |
| 02:56.38 | fishyfire | if you don't mind me asking ? |
| 02:57.18 | goozbach | sjansen is the demographics secretary of #utah |
| 02:57.22 | sjansen | I'm guessing that you're under 19. |
| 02:57.28 | *** join/#utah markl_ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:57.34 | fishyfire | why would you guess that ? |
| 02:58.23 | goozbach | again, he's the demographics guru... he's good with statistics |
| 02:58.38 | goozbach | and that cool program called OpenLDAP |
| 02:58.38 | fishyfire | just curious what stat lead you to that belief |
| 02:58.40 | sjansen | Because a male at BYU over the age of 21 would be able to answer the question easily enough... although it's just been pointed out to me that you might be female. |
| 02:58.49 | sjansen | Which would be unusual for #utah. |
| 02:58.54 | fishyfire | i am female |
| 02:59.04 | fishyfire | which yes i know is very unusual |
| 02:59.11 | fishyfire | LOL |
| 02:59.20 | fishyfire | i know..,... it hasn't been known before now |
| 02:59.20 | sjansen | We're being invaded! |
| 02:59.26 | fishyfire | but guess the story is out now |
| 02:59.31 | goozbach | that's two females... |
| 02:59.37 | fishyfire | so how old are you guessing i am now? |
| 02:59.44 | sjansen | Under 21. |
| 02:59.47 | fishyfire | so back to the question.... |
| 03:00.08 | fishyfire | because a female over the age of 21 could have answered that question? |
| 03:00.12 | sjansen | There's a chance of over 21, but then you'd either be close to graduating or be able to answer your own question. |
| 03:00.27 | fishyfire | nope, i can't answer it |
| 03:00.33 | fishyfire | that's why i asked |
| 03:00.43 | sjansen | Anyway, I've wasted enough time. |
| 03:01.04 | fishyfire | under 21 was a good guess... and correct |
| 03:01.16 | sjansen | 1) It isn't inappropriate for them to stop by, but most would avoid it. |
| 03:01.21 | fishyfire | okay |
| 03:01.22 | fishyfire | thanks |
| 03:01.29 | goozbach | I told you .. statistics guru |
| 03:01.30 | sjansen | 2) They could both be green and over eager. |
| 03:01.39 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (~xbmodder@adsl-66-127-53-64.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 03:01.40 | xbmodder_lappy | hey |
| 03:01.56 | xbmodder_lappy | so whos home today? say 'I' |
| 03:01.59 | fishyfire | they came in and were both looking around... and didn't seem over confident |
| 03:02.39 | sjansen | 3) They could be, how can I put it, rebelde. (IOW: a headache for the president.) |
| 03:03.31 | sjansen | What did they talk about? |
| 03:04.55 | mheath | Ugh...RHEL...Heh. |
| 03:06.00 | fishyfire | then one started saying something about putting red x's on the active members doors, so we could tell who was an active member and who wasn't, and then that would make the less active want to be more active and such |
| 03:06.42 | goozbach | heh |
| 03:06.48 | mheath | xbmodder: please, grow up :) |
| 03:07.25 | goozbach | I suggest that all inactive members must wear a large scarlet I across the chest |
| 03:07.33 | mheath | Hahaha. |
| 03:07.43 | goozbach | ... whisky tango foxtrot? |
| 03:07.49 | fishyfire | the other one then suggested just putting permanent marker across their foreheads |
| 03:07.59 | fishyfire | he was joking.,... but not sure about the first one |
| 03:07.59 | goozbach | tatoos, they last longer |
| 03:08.21 | sjansen | uh, okay |
| 03:09.02 | goozbach | |addlart forces $who to advertise viagria on their forehead |
| 03:09.02 | brigham | can do! |
| 03:09.02 | sjansen | It's plausible that it coulda been a lame joke. |
| 03:09.17 | goozbach | blah I can't spell |
| 03:09.26 | sjansen | goozbach: combining viagra and alegria there? |
| 03:09.32 | goozbach | and now it's imortilized in a stupid lart |
| 03:09.43 | sjansen | ... or is alegria portuguese? I can't remember anymore. |
| 03:09.44 | Maquis | goozbach: there's always rmlart |
| 03:09.46 | goozbach | yeah it's my new idea |
| 03:09.57 | fishyfire | they just seemed a little off... |
| 03:10.11 | goozbach | not only can you perform better, you can do so without your allergies acting up :) |
| 03:10.49 | sjansen | goozbach: trying to transform #utah into #evil? |
| 03:11.45 | mheath | Ugh... |
| 03:11.55 | mheath | I've been reading docs on Wine and Windows APIs lately... |
| 03:12.13 | sjansen | fishyfire: would make a great cover for casing a place at BYU |
| 03:12.15 | mheath | Working on some Windows compatability tools, mainly for my distro... |
| 03:12.44 | mheath | I've become convinced that the APIs in Windows are the silliest, stupidest, most disorganized and randomly placed things in the world |
| 03:13.32 | fishyfire | yes that was what i was thinking |
| 03:13.43 | goozbach | mheath: wine touts itself as being bug-for-bug compatible with the windows API |
| 03:13.57 | fishyfire | and with people walking in and appartments being broken into around here... |
| 03:14.09 | goozbach | hmmm |
| 03:14.13 | goozbach | sounds a little off |
| 03:14.31 | fishyfire | i just don't want to make a big deal out of it if it isn't... |
| 03:14.32 | goozbach | of course I'm kinda still in suspisious mode |
| 03:14.34 | mheath | I'm going to work on a little taskbar |
| 03:14.51 | goozbach | checking up on things isn't gonna hurt fishyfire |
| 03:14.57 | mheath | Like explorer.exe, but not explorer.exe (if you run explorer.exe in Wine, you have to run the complete thing within a window) |
| 03:15.11 | sjansen | fishyfire: Afraid of looking silly? 'Cause it's not going to hurt to ask some questions. |
| 03:15.22 | mheath | Just a windows-compatible-(uses wine) taskbar that coexists with your Linux desktop |
| 03:15.53 | goozbach | WOW! RHEL4 is now 6GB in size for an "everything" install |
| 03:16.11 | Maquis | goozbach: why would you ever want an "everything" install? |
| 03:16.11 | mheath | Wow, thats huge |
| 03:16.24 | mheath | *massive( |
| 03:16.25 | goozbach | Maquis: I'm just doing some testing |
| 03:16.36 | Maquis | ah... |
| 03:16.52 | goozbach | the final install will be minimal |
| 03:16.53 | Maquis | someone at the uug installfest did a close-to-everything install |
| 03:17.20 | goozbach | all of our classroom machines are done with everything installs |
| 03:17.22 | Maquis | he said he didn't click "everything", but he needed disk 4, and he sure was installing a lot of things he didn't need... |
| 03:17.40 | goozbach | keeps the dependancy problems to a minimum |
| 03:17.42 | Maquis | goozbach: the classroom machines have all the games on them? |
| 03:17.43 | fishyfire | lol |
| 03:17.50 | goozbach | yup |
| 03:18.06 | goozbach | it's how we can tell if the students are done with the labs... |
| 03:18.13 | Maquis | haha |
| 03:18.13 | goozbach | "click click click" |
| 03:18.19 | goozbach | or "tappy tappy tappy" |
| 03:18.31 | goozbach | makes me say "ok lets move on." |
| 03:18.58 | sjansen | Especially convenient for the 120, makes it easy for newbies to explore. |
| 03:19.07 | Maquis | my high school put in a laptop program... with wireless throughout the entire school... |
| 03:19.08 | goozbach | that as well |
| 03:19.23 | sjansen | Also helps to avoid the problem of "let me show you this... oh, wait, we need to install soemthing first". |
| 03:19.27 | goozbach | mine did as well Maquis. |
| 03:19.33 | Maquis | wireless in a high school (and in the middle school) and requiring all students to have laptops in classes is not a very good idea... |
| 03:19.39 | sjansen | heh |
| 03:19.43 | goozbach | not the requiring part |
| 03:20.31 | Maquis | goozbach: yeah... we had them required... |
| 03:20.32 | goozbach | sjansen hasn't seen the teachers at my old school aparently |
| 03:20.53 | sjansen | Even in college. Almost 100% of my college professors that used whiteboards instead of power point taught more informative, useful classes. |
| 03:20.56 | goozbach | if it weren't for the tech. I wouldn't have shown up |
| 03:21.03 | goozbach | sjansen: true that |
| 03:21.26 | goozbach | I've got the hiccoughs |
| 03:21.27 | sjansen | Although I have to admit I road the leading wave most of the way. |
| 03:21.47 | sjansen | The worst part was elementary school when computers were just starting to become part of school. |
| 03:22.03 | sjansen | "Let's put them in front of computers and they'll magically prepare themselves for the future." |
| 03:22.04 | Maquis | sjansen: history of creativity is done well with powerpoint... |
| 03:22.07 | goozbach | I installed the first lab in my elementary school |
| 03:22.10 | sjansen | In reality, we just played games. |
| 03:22.49 | Maquis | my elementary school computer class was composed of prince of persia... |
| 03:22.56 | goozbach | by the time I was in sixth grade I was in charge of all the schools computers |
| 03:23.04 | Maquis | it was a very engaging computer class... |
| 03:24.16 | sjansen | well? or entertainingly? |
| 03:27.17 | Maquis | sjansen: ? |
| 03:27.18 | brigham | sjansen: is it ever otherwise? |
| 03:27.33 | sjansen | brigham: go delete yourself |
| 03:27.43 | Maquis | brigham: forget sjansen: |
| 03:27.43 | brigham | okay |
| 03:28.17 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:28.21 | sjansen | Ah, much better. |
| 03:28.31 | Maquis | ~lart sjansen |
| 03:29.57 | sjansen | I can see where a history class would benefit more from multi-media. |
| 03:30.19 | sjansen | As long as the professor is willing to stray from the planned presentation. |
| 03:30.52 | sjansen | I remember American Heritage. It used a lot of media, and was quite entertaining. |
| 03:31.11 | sjansen | But how much more informative would it have been if the time had been used for teaching instead of entertaining? |
| 03:32.39 | Maquis | sjansen: see, civ doesn't use it for entertainment... |
| 03:33.07 | Maquis | he shows famous paintings, and then talks about them, and shows the different things that distinguish them between periods |
| 03:33.10 | goozbach | history needs to be intertaining |
| 03:33.15 | goozbach | if not it's too boring |
| 03:33.22 | Maquis | or he plays music from the different time periods, and shows what's distinctive about each time period |
| 03:33.32 | Maquis | and he has the most important things to know up on the screen |
| 03:34.28 | goozbach | these hiccups |
| 03:34.44 | Maquis | |lart goozbach's hiccups |
| 03:34.55 | goozbach | *hic* somebody *hic* scare me *hic* already |
| 03:34.55 | Maquis | that should keep them off your back for a little... |
| 03:35.01 | Maquis | BOO!!!! |
| 03:35.07 | Maquis | *BOO!!!!* |
| 03:35.21 | goozbach | hmm I musta seen that one coming |
| 03:35.30 | goozbach | try again when I'm not expecting it. |
| 03:38.16 | goozbach | right on! a new webcomic that doesn't suck |
| 03:38.47 | Maquis | goozbach: do you think userfriendly sucks? |
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| 03:39.04 | *** part/#utah torriem (~torriem@c-67-177-53-78.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:39.13 | goozbach | sadly there's only one comic thus far |
| 03:40.04 | goozbach | userfriendly isn't new |
| 03:40.08 | Maquis | oh... |
| 03:40.10 | goozbach | and it's been better |
| 03:40.12 | Maquis | missed that word in there.. |
| 03:40.20 | Maquis | some of them are pretty funny |
| 03:40.36 | goozbach | yeah but they've gone downhill in the last year |
| 03:40.48 | goozbach | now CTRL-ALT-DELETE online is great |
| 03:41.28 | goozbach | as is some of the PVPonline |
| 03:41.44 | goozbach | but most of the new comics I discover really suck |
| 03:43.28 | goozbach | order of the stick is good |
| 03:43.35 | goozbach | Penny-arcade is great |
| 03:43.46 | goozbach | because they just don't care who they offend |
| 03:44.50 | goozbach | something positive is kinda alright |
| 03:45.01 | goozbach | it gets a little too ranchy sometimes |
| 03:46.15 | goozbach | ohh... |
| 03:46.19 | goozbach | but I don't have any |
| 03:46.20 | StoryTime | Hmmwha? |
| 03:46.23 | Maquis | :( |
| 03:46.24 | goozbach | I'm never at the office |
| 03:46.24 | StoryTime | I'm not here! |
| 03:46.26 | StoryTime | I'm away! |
| 03:46.27 | StoryTime | See? |
| 03:46.28 | Maquis | StoryTime: do you have any good stories? |
| 03:46.42 | StoryTime | A few, but I'm actually about to run off. |
| 03:46.44 | Maquis | StoryTime: are you new? or are you someone else with a different name? |
| 03:46.53 | StoryTime | I'm new, I guess. |
| 03:47.00 | goozbach | a knoppix user |
| 03:47.05 | Maquis | fun |
| 03:47.05 | goozbach | cool in my book |
| 03:47.08 | fishyfire | well seems like they were legit |
| 03:47.21 | goozbach | fishyfire: see, now you don't have to worry |
| 03:47.30 | goozbach | and did it hurt to check? no... |
| 03:47.32 | fishyfire | my roommate looked them up on the database |
| 03:48.06 | goozbach | good |
| 03:48.10 | goozbach | they're legit |
| 03:50.00 | fishyfire | course i have two different guys going to call me back about it |
| 03:50.18 | fishyfire | oh well |
| 03:53.45 | Maquis | fishyfire: you have two different guys planning on calling you on valentines day? :) |
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| 04:11.51 | mheath | Well, I think I'm going to install Slackware 10.1 on here... |
| 04:11.57 | mheath | I'll be back in a few minutes |
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| 04:29.15 | LeviHome | I need a new laptop battery. *sigh* |
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| 04:44.18 | LeviHome | Maquis: Yuck. Hope you get better soon! |
| 04:44.27 | LeviHome | Time for me to go to bed. Seeya later. |
| 04:44.50 | Maquis | gnight |
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| 04:56.37 | fishyfire | have slackware 10.1 installed now? |
| 04:56.44 | mheath | Yep |
| 04:56.56 | mheath | Going to build enlightenment DR17 now |
| 04:59.08 | sjansen | http://www.funlinked.com/critter/johnny.html |
| 05:00.04 | tensai | so sjansen, why don't you tell us what you really think about software vendors? |
| 05:01.43 | sjansen | I suppose it would have been better to phrase that as "All vendors sales people are liars." |
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| 05:12.29 | SpecialK | |lart Maquis |
| 05:12.34 | Maquis | |lart SpecialK |
| 05:14.12 | goozbach | now that's a good comic... |
| 05:14.24 | goozbach | full frontal nerdity |
| 05:21.22 | goozbach | |praise wendy's for being open late |
| 05:21.54 | Maquis | goozbach: what comic? |
| 05:22.25 | goozbach | full frontal nerdity |
| 05:22.39 | Maquis | is it a web comic? |
| 05:24.32 | sjansen | Did you know that BYU hires students to go around at night at check that on-campus-housing doors are locked? |
| 05:24.57 | sjansen | fishyfire's experience just reminded me of the time I found out |
| 05:25.26 | Maquis | sjansen: i know that the RAs do that in the dorms... |
| 05:25.28 | sjansen | Saw somebody walk up to my back door, try to open it, fail, and go onto the next. |
| 05:25.50 | sjansen | So I called the campus cops. Five minutes later they called back to say it was normal. |
| 05:25.53 | Maquis | they always got mad at our floor back in helaman, because most of our floor never locked the door |
| 05:26.09 | sjansen | Didn't recognize the person as one of our RAs. |
| 05:26.15 | sjansen | Suppose he coulda been on loan. |
| 05:26.33 | fishyfire | that wouldn't be cool |
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| 05:28.34 | sjansen | Wasn't a big deal. |
| 05:29.21 | goozbach | I'd come out swinging a baseball bat |
| 05:32.03 | Maquis | goo: that'd teach them a lesson :) |
| 05:34.49 | sjansen | Reno 911 is cool, they're actually realistic |
| 05:35.09 | sjansen | "I just stole the cover from the Sparks police department." |
| 05:35.25 | sjansen | "On peckam near..." |
| 05:36.23 | goozbach | it's good |
| 05:36.30 | Maquis | ?????? |
| 05:36.52 | goozbach | reno911 |
| 05:36.55 | goozbach | is funny |
| 05:37.07 | goozbach | it's funny because it's true |
| 05:41.18 | sjansen | ha! |
| 05:41.52 | sjansen | Just saw a clip of a guy that popped out of a box center court of a basketball game during half-time. |
| 05:42.05 | sjansen | Proposed. |
| 05:42.14 | Maquis | haha |
| 05:42.32 | sjansen | Girl said no and walked off looking very uncomfortable. |
| 05:42.38 | Maquis | haha |
| 05:43.43 | goozbach | ouch! |
| 05:43.47 | goozbach | that's great |
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| 05:49.14 | xbmodder_lappy | question for my homework: Is someone who is bisexual considered 'lesbian' |
| 05:52.34 | goozbach | homework??? |
| 05:52.51 | goozbach | what kinda class has you answering those kind of questions? |
| 05:57.35 | xbmodder_lappy | health |
| 05:57.57 | Newsome | sounds rather unhealthy |
| 05:58.03 | goozbach | no kidding |
| 05:58.54 | goozbach | all reasons aside, the short answer is no |
| 05:59.10 | sjansen | What an odd question. |
| 05:59.10 | goozbach | semantics |
| 06:00.54 | sjansen | I don't know, gooz, it's hard to guess what a person that thinks the question is important might think. |
| 06:02.51 | sjansen | And isn |
| 06:03.09 | sjansen | And isn't school really about learning to guess what the teacher wants? |
| 06:03.15 | Newsome | It's either no, or a poorly worded question. It is _definitely_ a question poor in taste. |
| 06:03.17 | Maquis | why is the stupid ' so close to the enter key anyways??? |
| 06:03.55 | Maquis | (sorry sjansen --- noticed that you have that problem too, and decided to ask) |
| 06:03.58 | Newsome | so people with really large right pinkies will accidentally hit enter sometimes, I guess. |
| 06:04.12 | Maquis | not just people with large pinkies though... |
| 06:04.41 | goozbach | sjansen: I say semantics... |
| 06:04.51 | goozbach | a male can be bisexual and not lesbian |
| 06:04.57 | goozbach | ~dict lesbian |
| 06:05.22 | goozbach | ~dict bisexual |
| 06:05.37 | goozbach | there ya go |
| 06:06.01 | goozbach | but I aggree that is an odd question |
| 06:06.09 | goozbach | esp for high school health |
| 06:08.12 | xbmodder_lappy | and also my girlfriend is bisexual :) |
| 06:08.23 | Newsome | TMI |
| 06:08.53 | goozbach | and there ya have it... |
| 06:09.02 | goozbach | the _real_ reason for the question |
| 06:11.50 | goozbach | XEN roxors |
| 06:11.57 | xbmodder_lappy | no, also it was for health |
| 06:12.13 | goozbach | yeah... |
| 06:12.24 | Newsome | nah, XEN is only sorta cool |
| 06:12.32 | Newsome | :) |
| 06:13.48 | sjansen | The fact that Xen is OSS r0x0rZ |
| 06:14.06 | Newsome | yeah, that's a good thing about it |
| 06:14.17 | goozbach | Newsome: why only sorta? |
| 06:14.20 | Newsome | goozbach, you finding it works well? |
| 06:14.42 | Newsome | Oh, I'm just working more on UML, and thought I'd give you a hard time. |
| 06:14.43 | goozbach | well I got it working... which is more than I can say for UML |
| 06:14.48 | Newsome | heh |
| 06:16.04 | Newsome | I'll have to play with xen sometime. |
| 06:19.33 | Newsome | Like VMWare, only OSS, right? |
| 06:19.46 | sjansen | Xen seems to be capturing more attention than UML did. |
| 06:19.59 | sjansen | Newsome: pretty much. |
| 06:20.30 | sjansen | But they do some stuff for speed reasons that requires that an OS be "ported" to run inside Xen. |
| 06:20.54 | Newsome | Doesn't it also sort of require a hypervisor kernel? |
| 06:22.29 | Newsome | I believe that's a bit like the way they do virtualization for the S390 |
| 06:27.02 | sjansen | It does. |
| 06:27.15 | goozbach | yup |
| 06:28.13 | sjansen | Xen is the hypervisor. Host0 is a Linux kernel that provides device drivers. |
| 06:28.38 | Newsome | oh, okay |
| 06:29.24 | Maquis | hypervisor == super supervisor? |
| 06:32.11 | sjansen | The need to port an OS to run on Xen is because of limitation with x86. Intel is going to be shipping chips with extensions that make it virtualization easier. |
| 06:32.40 | sjansen | Apparently, Xen could be ported to PPC and would already support full virtualization. |
| 06:32.49 | sjansen | Maquis: yeah |
| 06:33.19 | Maquis | doh! |
| 06:33.23 | Maquis | almost out of cough drops! |
| 06:33.50 | Maquis | i started the bag yesterday... |
| 06:36.02 | fishyfire | aren't you only supposed to have so many of those in a given time period? |
| 06:36.13 | Maquis | i dunno |
| 06:36.47 | goozbach | it's never hurt me |
| 06:36.55 | goozbach | I used to down two bags/day |
| 06:37.20 | Maquis | the back of the bag says that 10 drops == 1 fruit... |
| 06:37.28 | fishyfire | i don't know... just thought i had heard something about that |
| 06:37.37 | fishyfire | probably depends on the cough drops |
| 06:44.47 | brailsmt | i am using XML with CSS for the first time... is it possible to style the attributes of a tag? ie, I have <foo title=Bar>, can I display the foo section with the Bar title? |
| 06:48.55 | xbmodder | so... |
| 06:49.38 | goozbach | what? |
| 06:50.10 | goozbach | you've come back so I can taunt you a second thimeeee? |
| 06:50.18 | xbmodder | no |
| 06:50.33 | xbmodder | Don't be mean to bisexual people |
| 06:51.05 | goozbach | xbmodder: I'm quoting monty python |
| 06:51.15 | goozbach | don't take offense |
| 06:51.42 | goozbach | there are many layers of geek... |
| 06:52.10 | goozbach | a good litmus test is the ablity to quote monty python |
| 06:52.27 | Maquis | a duck! |
| 06:52.38 | goozbach | see... Maquis is a geek |
| 06:52.47 | goozbach | BURN her!!! |
| 06:53.21 | sjansen | brailsmt: you might be able to with CSS3 |
| 06:53.35 | goozbach | if you can't quote monty python... you need to have some knowledge of Office Space |
| 06:53.37 | sjansen | but really, that's more of something that XSLT would be used for |
| 06:54.11 | Maquis | anyone want a cold? |
| 06:54.19 | goozbach | not I |
| 06:54.19 | sjansen | Office Space?! You dare to compare Office Space with Monty Python?! |
| 06:54.22 | sjansen | Infidel! |
| 06:54.31 | brailsmt | ofiice space was stupid... |
| 06:54.52 | brailsmt | it had 2.3 good lines... |
| 06:55.05 | goozbach | sjansen: no, I'm just saying if you aren't at the level of geek that can quote any line of MP then if you can quote OS then you're still ok |
| 06:55.19 | brailsmt | the other 97.7 sucked... |
| 06:56.01 | goozbach | stupid hiccups are back |
| 06:56.06 | goozbach | grrr |
| 06:56.09 | Maquis | goozbach: i'll trade |
| 06:56.29 | goozbach | Maquis: no, I gotta teach a class |
| 06:56.34 | Maquis | :( |
| 06:56.47 | Maquis | or you could trade, get out of the class, and come to uug... |
| 06:59.15 | goozbach | I'll pass |
| 06:59.25 | Maquis | :( |
| 07:03.39 | brailsmt | does XML+CSS have id and class attribtes on the tags like with HTML? |
| 07:07.55 | SpecialK | There's no UUG meeting posted on the site. . . |
| 07:08.22 | Maquis | SpecialK: it's not there... but it was emailed out |
| 07:08.45 | SpecialK | nope, there's no meeting. |
| 07:16.56 | sjansen | brailsmt: yes |
| 07:20.17 | SpecialK | |lart EE380 |
| 07:31.40 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
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| 07:34.30 | brailsmt | http://brailsmt.homelinux.org/resume.xml <-- not bad for the first time doing CSS+XML |
| 07:35.00 | brailsmt | oops, i forgot to style a piece... |
| 07:43.23 | brailsmt | can i make thunderbird read my .maildir mailboxes? |
| 07:49.39 | SpecialK | I know I had trouble accessing thunderbird boxes with pine. |
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| 10:14.05 | goozbach | grr it's 3am |
| 12:58.55 | mheath | 6 AM..*sigh* |
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| 15:00.58 | hans | it's snowing |
| 15:01.05 | hans | in case you're in a basement |
| 15:01.18 | Maquis | :( |
| 15:06.29 | hans | snow makes you cough? |
| 15:06.34 | Maquis | no... |
| 15:06.49 | Maquis | i've been coughing since saturday... |
| 15:09.44 | hans | is it normal for usb drives to have reliability issues a few days after you buy them? |
| 15:13.54 | Maquis | not to my knowledge :) |
| 15:14.12 | hans | hmm, maybe it's this hub. |
| 15:15.22 | tensai | hans: send it to me. I'll use it for a year and let you know if it works. |
| 15:15.38 | hans | :) |
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| 15:40.50 | xbmodder | ? |
| 15:41.35 | tensai | ^ |
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| 16:14.45 | levi | Good morning. |
| 16:17.10 | bucky | howdy |
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| 16:20.25 | Maquis | *cough* morning... |
| 16:21.10 | levi | Aww, still sick? |
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| 16:21.35 | Maquis | :( |
| 16:22.16 | levi | I hate those colds that just don't go away. |
| 16:23.03 | bucky | a cheerleader from east high just died from bacterial meningitis |
| 16:23.23 | bucky | there's some serious gambu going around |
| 16:24.15 | Maquis | ick |
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| 16:32.12 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 16:35.11 | bucky | who went live with the wireless yesterday |
| 16:38.08 | hans | is that a question? |
| 16:39.22 | levi | hans: You read that Smalltalk thing I wrote yet? |
| 16:39.38 | hans | doh, I forgot to yesterday. I will now |
| 16:39.50 | hans | that site gabe posted really is pretty slick |
| 16:40.47 | bucky | who went live with the wireless yesterday? |
| 16:40.55 | bucky | i forgot the question mark |
| 16:41.17 | hans | maybe you're referring to my comment. Selena's Authentic Tex-Mex (3rd south and state in orem) goes wireless on monday |
| 16:41.43 | bucky | oh it's a restaurant.. cool |
| 16:42.03 | hans | not sure what time monday |
| 16:42.40 | hans | that depends on qwest and when the xmission guy comes |
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| 16:43.01 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 16:44.17 | levi | Anyway, anyone else who might be interested in a brief intro to Smalltalk syntax should look at my blog: http://lifeoflevi.com/ |
| 16:44.37 | levi | Don't forget the 'read more' link. |
| 16:48.20 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@sorenson.dsl.csolutions.net) |
| 16:52.58 | bucky | nice site levi |
| 16:53.10 | levi | Thanks. |
| 16:56.52 | hans | levi: typo after closure paragraph |
| 16:58.18 | hans | "[ foo" should be "| foo" |
| 16:58.40 | levi | Ahh, okay. |
| 16:59.17 | levi | Fixed. |
| 16:59.55 | levi | I think my next entry will be a rant on the really disgustingly poor selection of CS-related books in your average bookstore. |
| 17:00.15 | levi | I went to Borders last night while waiting for a seat at Macaroni Grill. |
| 17:00.40 | levi | As a sidenote, I will never go to a restaurant on V-day again that I don't have a reservation for. |
| 17:00.41 | bonez41 | I have a sister-in-law in who lives in Chandler./Phoenix.....we want to have her help take phone calls, and enter client /contact information.......remotely for us....is this something asterisk could help us accomplish, HANS? |
| 17:01.13 | levi | So, Borders has this HUGE computer book section. I figured I could find something interesting to read to pass the time. |
| 17:01.23 | hans | cool. nice intro |
| 17:01.55 | bucky | barnes and nobles is always good |
| 17:02.06 | levi | It turns out, although it was HUGE, it was full of crap. B&N has the same problem. |
| 17:02.30 | bucky | at least they have some linux related books in B&N |
| 17:02.39 | levi | Oh, there were plenty of linux-related books. |
| 17:02.54 | bucky | the one in sugarhouse is excellent actually |
| 17:02.58 | levi | The problem was, there were like two books on general computer science topics. |
| 17:03.24 | bucky | sugarhouse B&N has everything |
| 17:03.26 | levi | Tons of 'how to learn x' where x is some specific bit of computer software. |
| 17:04.16 | levi | Well, I guess the last B&N I went to did have tAoCP. |
| 17:04.26 | bucky | and the sugarhouse B&N encourages people to sit in the lounge and read their books |
| 17:04.34 | bucky | and they have free wireless |
| 17:04.38 | levi | bucky: All Borders and B&N are like that. |
| 17:04.52 | levi | They actually have interesting books to read in non-computer sections, too. |
| 17:05.22 | bucky | and they have starbucks |
| 17:05.53 | bucky | i've been to two movies and a county fair and never saw anything like that |
| 17:05.58 | hans | levi: I agree, there's almost no CS stuff. Generally a good O'Reilly book I haven't read though. |
| 17:06.06 | levi | I have no problem, really, with B&N and Borders. I have a problem with the poor state of CS-related literature. |
| 17:06.29 | levi | hans: O'Reilly books are just a higher grade of the same stuff as the rest of it, though. |
| 17:06.38 | hans | yup |
| 17:06.40 | bucky | nobody buys it... there's no real market for it |
| 17:06.48 | levi | They're 'how to learn technology X' books. |
| 17:06.54 | hans | most of them, anyway. there's a few cs-geared oreillys |
| 17:06.58 | hans | like POSIX.4 |
| 17:07.18 | levi | bucky: Sure, but they've got books on obscure mathematical stuff in the math/science section. |
| 17:07.23 | bucky | by the time it's on the self.. it's out of date and deprecated |
| 17:07.34 | hans | still not a theoretical treatment of realtime systems, but it delves deep enough to be interesting |
| 17:07.39 | levi | hans: What's CS-geared about POSIX? It's just another technology platform. |
| 17:08.12 | levi | Oh, I see. |
| 17:08.52 | levi | Well, there were a couple of books that were interesting. One was a book on compilers, and then there was the Design Patterns book. |
| 17:08.53 | hans | POSIX.4 is reltime stuff, the POSIX.4 book actually goes into the theory to a decent extent. you won't be an expert realtime systems programmer, but it'll take you from zero to at least being able to understand things |
| 17:09.36 | levi | But two or three books out of 8 or 9 shelves is just disgusting, and they didn't have a single general algorithms book. |
| 17:12.05 | hans | a beaver is a million-billion times more dangerous than a t-rex |
| 17:13.11 | levi | Anyway, hopefully my intro to Smalltalk syntax is sufficient to demystify random code snippets one might come across. |
| 17:13.29 | Jayce^ | http://www.comics.com/comics/sheldon/index.html |
| 17:13.38 | Jayce^ | just for the trekkie folks |
| 17:14.34 | hans | he he. actually the show did kinda stink, until this season |
| 17:14.40 | hans | now it's good, but too late. |
| 17:15.00 | levi | What I'd really like to see in the computer section of the bookstore is a 'how we got here' sort of book that talks about how and where different computer things we take for granted now were developed and brought together, and also some of the nifty things that have been left behind by the industry. |
| 17:15.56 | Jayce^ | hans, you just blew my mind :-p |
| 17:16.07 | levi | And I think such a book should be required reading for new CS students. |
| 17:16.07 | bigdog_ut | i would like to see more books on advanced topics instead of hundreds of books for the newbie |
| 17:16.33 | hans | levi: write it :) |
| 17:16.50 | levi | hans: I'd like to, someday. |
| 17:16.59 | hans | I'll buy it |
| 17:18.37 | bonez41 | hans: your monosyllabic answer...'yup'...was it in response to my query? |
| 17:20.24 | bucky | here's the 146 books on algorithms at B&N |
| 17:20.26 | bucky | http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?WRD=algorithms&userid=My7ZNuwAgA&cds2Pid=946 |
| 17:20.47 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (~von@c-67-177-11-46.client.comcast.net) |
| 17:20.47 | levi | bucky: In the online store. |
| 17:20.54 | hans | bonez41: you can do that but you need to have the hardware and bandwidth for it on both ends |
| 17:21.09 | levi | bucky: That doesn't count. I'm talking about what's stocked. |
| 17:21.25 | levi | bucky: My criticism is not of the bookstores; they're just meeting demand. |
| 17:21.26 | bucky | levi, i'm sure the individual store inventories vary according to their market |
| 17:21.45 | bucky | do you know what the average iq is out there |
| 17:21.55 | vontrapp | |lart deer |
| 17:21.55 | levi | It's average. |
| 17:21.59 | bucky | and i'm not saying i'm smart or anything |
| 17:22.07 | vontrapp | ~lart deer |
| 17:22.21 | levi | Well, if you look in the Physics section, there are a lot of books geared towards explaining theory to the layman. |
| 17:22.34 | hans | ~lart vontrapp |
| 17:22.40 | bucky | you'd be surprised at some of the mythology that smart people beleive in |
| 17:22.42 | levi | There are no books like that in the computer section. |
| 17:22.55 | hans | bucky: like cupid? |
| 17:23.02 | bucky | and santa |
| 17:23.46 | vontrapp | anyone know the quickest way to get at the windshield wiper motors on a Ford Festiva? |
| 17:23.50 | bucky | levi, meet me at the sugarhouse B&N and i'll find you one |
| 17:24.06 | vontrapp | being able to put it back together is a prerequisite |
| 17:24.19 | bucky | that rules out a cutting torch |
| 17:24.57 | JoshH | bucky: i go to that B&N all the time |
| 17:25.08 | levi | bucky: You're totally missing my point. |
| 17:25.19 | bucky | JoshH, do they have a book on algorithms |
| 17:25.26 | JoshH | their computer book section is kinda weak though.. i like the borders at crossroads better |
| 17:25.32 | JoshH | im not sure, i havent looked for one |
| 17:25.46 | bucky | ok... where is the *good* book store |
| 17:25.59 | levi | bucky: I'm not complaining about bookstores! |
| 17:26.14 | JoshH | borders at crossroads mall |
| 17:26.26 | bucky | aha |
| 17:26.46 | bucky | do they have any books about the ford Festiva? |
| 17:27.08 | levi | The selection of books in the bookstore is an indicator of the sort of books that people are likely to buy and read. |
| 17:27.14 | hans | nifty made-with-linux song |
| 17:27.15 | hans | http://mattematik.is-a-geek.com/audio/made_with_linux/Lunar_Shuttle_Disaster-Computerville_v4.ogg |
| 17:27.21 | hans | Jayce^: you'll like that one |
| 17:27.37 | bucky | does it mention dittmore? |
| 17:27.48 | JoshH | they have 7 books about the ford festiva, all of them excellent. :) |
| 17:27.53 | bucky | lol |
| 17:28.27 | JoshH | B&N is a good bookstore, i just think borders is better for computer books. |
| 17:29.39 | bucky | JoshH, i'll have to check it out the next time i'm in the city |
| 17:29.40 | levi | I think B&N and Borders are about the same, and vary based on location. |
| 17:29.44 | bonez41 | hans: let's say she has a relatively new pc....,and cable modem.....and I have same or similar here...is that enough to make that work? |
| 17:29.59 | hans | if you use a softphone, and like the quality from it |
| 17:30.08 | hans | and you both have some sort of broadband |
| 17:30.27 | hans | otherwise you're gonna want some digium carads |
| 17:30.30 | hans | cards. |
| 17:31.11 | hans | (otherwise than softphone. still need bandwidth) |
| 17:33.34 | bucky | hans, i like that music but i didn't understand the words |
| 17:33.48 | hans | words schmurds |
| 17:33.56 | hans | :) |
| 17:34.07 | hans | I never listen to the words while working anyway |
| 17:34.09 | bucky | was it really about the shuttle disaster |
| 17:34.30 | hans | probably not |
| 17:34.30 | hans | I don't know about a lunar shuttle, anyhow. |
| 17:34.38 | hans | I think that was the name of the "group" |
| 17:34.40 | hans | (one guy) |
| 17:34.45 | bucky | ic |
| 17:37.40 | levi | I'll listen to it as soon as The Box finishes. |
| 17:38.45 | bucky | heck.. weber state's internet radio stream is down |
| 17:39.36 | bucky | is there anyother internet radio from northern utah.. no AM |
| 17:39.52 | hans | why northern utah? you want local news? |
| 17:40.07 | bucky | why not.. and traffic |
| 17:40.24 | hans | why not - perhaps they all suck. |
| 17:40.40 | hans | I don't know. traffic - you have the ability to stream an internet radio site in your car? |
| 17:41.08 | bucky | i like listening to the radio i spent most of my adult life listening to |
| 17:41.38 | bucky | like kber |
| 17:41.59 | JoshH | kber isnt as good as it used to be though |
| 17:41.59 | bucky | which says they're going to start a stream |
| 17:42.11 | JoshH | i think the blaze has actually been a tad better lately |
| 17:42.20 | bucky | well the RIAA killed all of the internet radio except for non-profits |
| 17:43.12 | bucky | hans, i don't have any traffic here and we only have one four way stop sign |
| 17:43.16 | levi | Harpsichord goes well with electronic music. |
| 17:43.20 | bucky | i miss it |
| 17:43.52 | bucky | i like sitting in my car for six hours in woods cross while they clear away body parts |
| 17:44.18 | levi | bucky: You have been permanently warped. |
| 17:46.20 | bucky | i wish i was back on I-15 driving at 90 mph with the baby seats stapped down in my suburban |
| 17:46.55 | bucky | Ford Festivas... be afraid... be very afraid |
| 17:47.26 | Jayce^ | saw a small, maybe accord, that rear ended a garbage truck today.. |
| 17:47.33 | Jayce^ | quite nice, totally wedged underneath it |
| 17:47.49 | bucky | fog ? |
| 17:48.08 | bucky | or just didn't see the garbage truck |
| 17:49.39 | Jayce^ | maybe the slight dusting of snow.. dunno.. |
| 17:49.42 | Jayce^ | just morons |
| 17:51.11 | levi | hans: These guys sound like they should be on ADD's label. |
| 17:51.30 | hans | ADD? |
| 17:54.11 | levi | A Different Drum |
| 17:54.39 | bucky | guess i could always listen to albuquerque |
| 17:54.45 | Jayce^ | was going to look it up, but I got distracted.... :-p |
| 17:55.06 | hans | albuquerque has more than one station |
| 17:55.13 | bucky | mi corazon.. porqe esta malla ... quando quando quando quando |
| 17:55.46 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (~zorb@c-24-2-80-89.client.comcast.net) |
| 17:55.48 | levi | hans: Started out as a store in downtown Provo selling synthpop and world music... now they're a synthpop record label. Or they were last time I cared to check. |
| 17:56.08 | hans | are they still in downtown provo? |
| 17:56.11 | hans | do they still sell stuff? |
| 17:56.45 | levi | Nope, they closed the storefront years ago. I think they're totally based online now. |
| 17:57.12 | Jayce^ | yeah.. |
| 17:57.15 | levi | http://www.adifferentdrum.com/ |
| 17:57.24 | Jayce^ | hans, they didn't that synth fest I showed you last year |
| 17:57.47 | levi | It's too bad. I got some good stuff at their store. |
| 17:58.14 | hans | judging by their phone numbe,r looks like they've moved out of the valleys |
| 17:58.17 | levi | A New Order bootleg and a Joy Division book. They also had a bunch of 80's vinyl. |
| 18:00.42 | *** join/#utah joshc_ (~josh@jcoates.org) |
| 18:00.49 | levi | Anyway, I lost interest in the synthpop scene. Just doesn't do much for me anymore. |
| 18:02.36 | levi | Hey, this is kind of cool... hope for Windowsland: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/02/ghostbuster.html |
| 18:15.50 | hans | i haven't lost interest in synth pop, I've just gained interest in other areas as well |
| 18:16.10 | hans | speaking of other genres, where's stuart? |
| 18:17.05 | Jayce^ | he ever make it back from tensai's place? |
| 18:17.46 | hans | tensai: do you have him locked in a closet? |
| 18:19.04 | tensai | ~seen sjansen |
| 18:19.05 | ibot | sjansen <~sjansen@12.107.203.245> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 11h 2m 9s ago, saying: 'brailsmt: yes'. |
| 18:19.28 | tensai | as you can see, I am no stuartnapper |
| 18:24.17 | joshc_ | i just saw unbreakable last night. anyone seen it? |
| 18:25.06 | joshc_ | it's a night shyamalan movie |
| 18:25.16 | fozz | Seen it |
| 18:25.19 | joshc_ | i really like all his movies |
| 18:25.27 | fozz | M. Night Shymalayanayanayanayannnayanan |
| 18:25.54 | fozz | I liked unbreakable and 6th Sense. |
| 18:26.00 | fozz | Everything after that was... predictable. |
| 18:26.16 | joshc_ | signs was a good one |
| 18:26.23 | fozz | I didn't think so. |
| 18:26.33 | joshc_ | yeah, a lot of folks didnt like it much |
| 18:26.40 | joshc_ | but its hard to beat the tinfoil hat scene |
| 18:27.00 | levi | Signs was okay while watching it, but kind of fell apart upon further reflection. |
| 18:27.06 | fozz | EXACTLY! |
| 18:27.53 | hans | how? I saw it once |
| 18:28.05 | hans | don't recall reflecting much |
| 18:28.28 | levi | Well, for one thing... aliens that can't handle water landing on Earth? |
| 18:28.41 | joshc_ | i dont see that as being a big deal |
| 18:28.48 | fozz | heh heh. |
| 18:29.02 | joshc_ | its hard to put limits on a fantastic alien race |
| 18:29.13 | fozz | Not to mention midwest farm country is like... 50+% humidity in the summer. |
| 18:29.37 | hans | no weirder than aliens who are deathly allergic to earthlings trying to take over the world (war of the worlds) |
| 18:29.39 | levi | How incredibly IDIOTIC would such aliens have to be? We have the technology to tell that distant worlds have water in their atmospheres, certainly these aliens that can travel across the galaxy would be able to tell such things. |
| 18:29.41 | dataw0lf | if they were so sensitive to water, even a lower amount of humidity would attack their skin like caustic acid fog. |
| 18:29.43 | joshc_ | so maybe gas & ice is okay - but not liquid water.. |
| 18:29.45 | dataw0lf | mmm 'caustic acid fog' |
| 18:30.04 | dataw0lf | joshc_: how is there a difference? |
| 18:30.09 | levi | joshc_: dew in the cornfields at night. |
| 18:30.10 | fozz | Sounds like the next hypercaffeinated drink. |
| 18:30.18 | dataw0lf | Caustic Acid Fog (tm) |
| 18:30.22 | fozz | :-) |
| 18:30.26 | dataw0lf | ;) |
| 18:30.31 | joshc_ | you guys are making wild assumptions about some alient biological reaction to water |
| 18:30.44 | fozz | They're not bad assumptions. |
| 18:30.55 | dataw0lf | I don't have to make wild assumptions, I saw his skin peel off like melting plastic. |
| 18:31.01 | joshc_ | LOL |
| 18:31.27 | dataw0lf | you think you'd have invented some type of suit for that. |
| 18:31.33 | dataw0lf | I mean, they had to have known they were sensitive to water. |
| 18:31.36 | joshc_ | it's certainly conceivable that they'd have a good reason to come to earth, even w/ the water problem |
| 18:32.00 | levi | joshc_: Then why'd they leave? |
| 18:32.01 | hans | right, to star in the movie. |
| 18:32.08 | hans | levi: their contract ended. |
| 18:32.14 | dataw0lf | Signs was the worst movie by M. Night. |
| 18:32.18 | joshc_ | they left because the were getting hit by super-soakers |
| 18:32.35 | dataw0lf | screw a super soaker, I would've had the fire truck out there. |
| 18:32.41 | joshc_ | clearly they came for our women |
| 18:32.45 | joshc_ | but it didnt work out |
| 18:32.47 | dataw0lf | they can have em. |
| 18:32.54 | hans | good v-day? |
| 18:33.02 | dataw0lf | hehe, that apparent? |
| 18:33.04 | joshc_ | the movie was really about faith and all that |
| 18:33.07 | joshc_ | i thought it was pretty good |
| 18:33.10 | Jayce^ | saw 'hitch' last night... good movie to take the wife too |
| 18:33.18 | Jayce^ | enjoyable, yet they'll get the romance side of it |
| 18:33.20 | dataw0lf | ah, see, I'm not religious, joshc_. |
| 18:33.25 | joshc_ | and i like the subtle approach they had - not too heavy on the special fx |
| 18:33.29 | dataw0lf | I liked the Village, that was a good one. |
| 18:33.35 | joshc_ | you dont have to be religious to appreciate the theme |
| 18:33.49 | joshc_ | havent seen village |
| 18:33.51 | dataw0lf | joshc_: I didn't appreciate the theme. |
| 18:33.59 | joshc_ | obviously. ;-) |
| 18:34.00 | dataw0lf | I thought it was cheesy. |
| 18:34.10 | dataw0lf | Especially the scene where he's talking to his wife while she's pinned by a car. |
| 18:34.23 | dataw0lf | Could've been made in Wisconsin, with that amount of cheese. |
| 18:34.25 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 18:34.29 | levi | I thought that was pretty cheesy, too. |
| 18:34.34 | hans | wisconson has too much water |
| 18:34.46 | joshc_ | i thought it was fine. i've seen lots of cheeze, and i thought it passed. |
| 18:35.25 | levi | Eh. It was fun while I watched it, but it really annoyed me that it didn't seem to hold up to any scrutiny afterward. |
| 18:35.56 | joshc_ | i must be jaded or something. |
| 18:36.18 | joshc_ | i've seen so many idiotic movies, if it's even *possible* for me to rationalize a movie, i'm fine with it |
| 18:36.33 | levi | Well, I think it was the fact that it presented itself as a thought provoking movie. |
| 18:36.46 | joshc_ | well, here we are discussing it |
| 18:36.50 | joshc_ | ;-) |
| 18:37.06 | hans | hah. good point |
| 18:37.25 | levi | Yeah, but not discussing the things that the director was interested in. |
| 18:37.35 | dataw0lf | We're not talking about any thought provoking moments. |
| 18:37.41 | dataw0lf | we're talking about water acting as acid and cheese. |
| 18:37.49 | joshc_ | how do you know what the director wanted us to discuss? |
| 18:38.01 | dataw0lf | well, by the level of cheese, I have a pretty good idea. |
| 18:38.15 | dataw0lf | I'm assuming the faith element, forgiveness, etc. |
| 18:38.16 | joshc_ | of course, i liked dawn/day of the dead |
| 18:38.22 | joshc_ | really good remakes |
| 18:38.29 | levi | I liked Army of Darkness. |
| 18:38.35 | dataw0lf | Army of Darkness rocks. |
| 18:38.44 | dataw0lf | they're making a fourth Evil Dead. |
| 18:38.47 | joshc_ | er, i meant night/dawn - they havent remade day yet |
| 18:38.49 | levi | Heh, really? |
| 18:38.52 | dataw0lf | Yeah. |
| 18:39.23 | dataw0lf | I want to see Bogeyman (sp?) |
| 18:39.29 | joshc_ | thats the one with the kmart shotgun guy, eh? |
| 18:39.31 | dataw0lf | Hopefully it isn't as dreadfully disappointing as White Noise. |
| 18:39.42 | dataw0lf | joshc_: S-Mart. |
| 18:39.48 | joshc_ | there you go |
| 18:39.50 | dataw0lf | Shop Smart, Shop S-Mart. |
| 18:39.50 | joshc_ | s-mart |
| 18:40.08 | joshc_ | what was that line? it was great - where you talks about his 'boom stick' |
| 18:40.34 | joshc_ | what did he call the villagers? |
| 18:40.47 | joshc_ | i just remember it was a bust up. |
| 18:41.04 | dataw0lf | See this? *This* is my *boom stick*! The 12-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about $109.95. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. *You got that*? |
| 18:41.23 | dataw0lf | He called em primitive screw heads before that. |
| 18:41.47 | dataw0lf | I like how the villagers are ooohing and aahing. |
| 18:42.08 | Jayce^ | "that's what we call pillow talk baby" |
| 18:42.14 | Jayce^ | "good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" |
| 18:42.19 | Jayce^ | mmm, quotes |
| 18:42.29 | dataw0lf | First you wanna kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow. |
| 18:43.05 | dataw0lf | What? Were you raised in a barn? Shut the door! Probably was raised in a barn, along with the other primates. |
| 18:43.32 | joshc_ | lol |
| 18:43.47 | joshc_ | so when are they going to make a 1st person shooter out of this? |
| 18:43.51 | dataw0lf | Bruce Campbell is awesome. |
| 18:43.53 | dataw0lf | They already did. |
| 18:43.57 | dataw0lf | Fistful of Boomstick. |
| 18:44.04 | dataw0lf | Not a fps, it was over the shoulder. |
| 18:44.15 | joshc_ | 3rd person |
| 18:44.26 | dataw0lf | I'm really glad that Raimi made it big with the Spidermans. |
| 18:44.26 | joshc_ | what engine did they use? |
| 18:44.33 | dataw0lf | I'm not sure, I never played it. |
| 18:45.01 | joshc_ | you guys ever play 'shadow warrior'? it was done on the duke-nuke'em engine |
| 18:45.05 | hans | spiderman2 is a fun game |
| 18:45.07 | dataw0lf | hm, the upgrade to PHP 5 seems to be worth it just for SimpleXML. |
| 18:45.07 | joshc_ | funniest one-liners ever |
| 18:45.35 | dataw0lf | never played it. |
| 18:45.49 | joshc_ | fun stuff. |
| 18:46.17 | joshc_ | s-mart quotes are very duke-nuke'em-ish |
| 18:46.48 | joshc_ | isnt it strange how you remember graphics looking so much better than they actually were? |
| 18:46.59 | dataw0lf | heh, yeah. |
| 18:47.09 | joshc_ | about a year ago i downloaded duke nuke'em and i couldnt believe what blocky crap it was |
| 18:47.17 | dataw0lf | I remember playing Wolfenstein 3d for the first time and being like 'O... M... G' |
| 18:47.18 | joshc_ | i remember them looking amazing |
| 18:47.22 | dataw0lf | or even movies. |
| 18:47.28 | dataw0lf | watch Independence Day, it looks so fake. |
| 18:47.35 | dataw0lf | but when it came out you were like, 'oooh, ahhh' |
| 18:47.37 | joshc_ | now that was a crappy movie |
| 18:47.47 | levi | You must be talking about Duke Nukem 3d. When I heard Duke Nukem, I think of the original. |
| 18:47.59 | joshc_ | i'm scarred to go back and look at c64 games on emulators now |
| 18:48.01 | joshc_ | i dont want to ruin my childhood memories |
| 18:48.20 | dataw0lf | psh, I still own my nintendo and about 60 games. |
| 18:48.21 | joshc_ | yeah, i only played the 3d one |
| 18:48.54 | joshc_ | i had castle wolfenstein on c64 (the original one) |
| 18:48.57 | joshc_ | it rocked |
| 18:49.11 | joshc_ | but it was kinda stupid - you'd die if you touch any walls |
| 18:49.20 | dataw0lf | mm, original Prince of Persia. |
| 18:49.21 | joshc_ | er, you wouldnt die, but the alarm would go off |
| 18:49.49 | joshc_ | yeah, that was a good one |
| 18:50.03 | joshc_ | there was airwolf game too |
| 18:50.13 | joshc_ | there were like a zillion commodore games |
| 18:50.31 | dataw0lf | nethack was my first *nix game. |
| 18:50.34 | dataw0lf | oh, how I loved nethack. |
| 18:50.55 | dataw0lf | @g |
| 18:50.57 | dataw0lf | Die goblin! |
| 18:50.59 | dataw0lf | DIE! |
| 18:51.28 | joshc_ | graphics dont have much to do with playability |
| 18:51.31 | JoshH | original prince of persia was awesome |
| 18:52.19 | dataw0lf | joshc_: agreed, which is why I can trace back why I fell in love with *nix in the first place when I was 12: MUDs. |
| 18:53.05 | dataw0lf | If it wasn't for muds, I wouldn't have started programming. |
| 18:53.38 | joshc_ | i never got into the mud scene |
| 18:53.40 | dataw0lf | but, one fateful day I wanted to figure out how they worked, so I asked for a C programming book for Christmas, and got the K&R. |
| 18:54.02 | joshc_ | thats the only book you need for c. |
| 18:54.24 | dataw0lf | It's true. |
| 18:54.47 | dataw0lf | I can't believe my parents got that one for me. I could've been stuck with the 'Absolute Beginner's Guide to C' or whatever. |
| 18:55.07 | joshc_ | yep - thats lucky |
| 18:55.10 | dataw0lf | I didn't have my own computer for a year, so all I did was read and reread that book. |
| 18:55.24 | joshc_ | LOl |
| 18:55.27 | joshc_ | thats sad |
| 18:55.36 | dataw0lf | Yeah. |
| 18:56.13 | dataw0lf | I'd go to my middle school library during lunch, log onto my free shell account, and utilize the power of gcc. But, 30 minutes every day doens't help too much. |
| 18:56.14 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~chatzilla@byu081064wks.byu.edu) |
| 18:57.11 | hans | i got dear johned over a freenet email account that I checked at the libray |
| 18:57.13 | dataw0lf | well, my Dad's free shell account through Northwestern, but he never used it. |
| 18:57.53 | SpecialK | ~lart Maquis |
| 18:59.18 | joshc_ | i'm going to pretend to go back to work now |
| 18:59.40 | joshc_ | i'll ttyl all |
| 18:59.42 | *** part/#utah joshc_ (~josh@jcoates.org) |
| 19:03.14 | *** join/#utah Lars-UT (~Lars-UT@67.137.22.94) |
| 19:03.22 | Maquis | |lart SpecialK |
| 19:03.28 | Maquis | ~lart SpecialK |
| 19:03.43 | Maquis | ok... |
| 19:03.45 | Maquis | weird problem... |
| 19:04.28 | Maquis | i only have this problem when i'm in gdb... sometimes when, i'm continuing from one breakpoint to the next, it suddenly jumps into an infinite loop and sits there, taking up 100% cpu |
| 19:04.47 | Maquis | the location changes each time i do it... |
| 19:04.49 | SpecialK | gee, valgrind was doing that for me last night |
| 19:04.55 | Maquis | and it never happens when i'm not in gdb... |
| 19:05.44 | hans | man, the bk people are a true conundrum |
| 19:05.57 | Maquis | bk? |
| 19:06.36 | Maquis | has anybody seen anything like that, or know where i could check to see if i can resolve the problem? |
| 19:06.47 | hans | bitkeeper |
| 19:06.57 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:09.34 | Maquis | hans: ??? |
| 19:09.38 | hans | http://kerneltrap.org/node/4723 |
| 19:09.47 | Maquis | yes... but how would that help? |
| 19:09.53 | hans | not one bit |
| 19:09.56 | Maquis | oh... |
| 19:10.04 | Maquis | ok... |
| 19:11.52 | tensai | Maquis: is this a multithreaded application? |
| 19:12.13 | Maquis | tensai: nope |
| 19:14.30 | tensai | have you recently upset a medicane man who may have hexed you? |
| 19:15.41 | hans | maybe you offended sjansen? |
| 19:17.22 | tensai | to whoever did that to Jayce^: don't stop |
| 19:17.45 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~jayce@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 19:17.45 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 19:19.44 | hans | http://www.fysh.org/~katie/computing/methodologies.txt |
| 19:22.47 | tensai | Maquis: what happens when you Ctrl-C gdb? where is it stuck? can you step at that point and see what it's doing? |
| 19:23.57 | brailsmt | tensai: hist control-c the issue the bt command and it will tell you where you are in the call stack... |
| 19:24.35 | brailsmt | and then you can use 'up' to navigate up the call stack |
| 19:24.51 | brailsmt | at each step you can view the state of the variables |
| 19:25.20 | goozbach | ok so I'm tired |
| 19:25.58 | tensai | Maquis: yes, what brailsmt said |
| 19:27.31 | *** part/#utah Lars-UT (~Lars-UT@67.137.22.94) |
| 19:45.51 | scott_ | anyone seen a rss reader that combines a bunch of feeds into one slashdot-like page? |
| 19:51.46 | scott_ | hmm, I wonder if that would violate copyright. |
| 19:56.35 | levi | scott_: There are a bunch of such things. |
| 19:56.56 | levi | scott_: See 'X Planet' pages, where X is something you're interested in. |
| 19:57.06 | levi | Or Planet X. |
| 19:57.58 | scott_ | I've only looked at the games, like planetquake, but they appear to have editors like slashdot |
| 19:58.01 | levi | hans: People actually use the 'mappers/packers' terminology? |
| 19:58.23 | levi | scott_: Planet Lisp and Planet Smalltalk are just blog aggregators. |
| 19:59.35 | mrpull | bloglines has a view that shows all of your subscribed feeds |
| 19:59.47 | mrpull | they are grouped by feed, but it shows all of them. |
| 19:59.55 | scott_ | yeah, I don't want grouped by feed |
| 20:00.00 | levi | Drupal has an aggregator module that does that, too. |
| 20:00.22 | levi | Tell it a bunch of feeds, and it republishes them in chronological order on your Drupal site. |
| 20:01.15 | levi | The whole point of Syndication is republishing, so I don't know how you could conceive of republishing an RSS feed as a violation of copyright. |
| 20:01.43 | levi | Unless you do it without attribution, of course. |
| 20:01.51 | mrpull | i'm afraid with time it will just be a way to drive traffic |
| 20:02.12 | mrpull | syndicate just the headline...come to my site for the rest |
| 20:02.13 | levi | And, again of course, you will have people who don't understand and will try to sue someone anyway. |
| 20:02.26 | levi | mrpull: Don't see anything wrong with that, either. |
| 20:02.35 | scott_ | levi, I think doing rss feeds is so other can read your blog, not distribute it |
| 20:02.37 | mrpull | I guess it is legitimate |
| 20:02.48 | mrpull | but I think it will become less useful with time |
| 20:02.58 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 20:03.57 | levi | scott_: RSS has syndication in the name. The idea of RSS was initially to use it for syndication. If people don't understand that now, it's their fault. |
| 20:04.38 | levi | mrpull: It's still useful just to have the titles. Lets you know when there's new content there, what it is, and how to get to it. |
| 20:04.54 | levi | It's like getting abstracts for academic papers. |
| 20:05.05 | mrpull | levi: agreed, but I'm greedy |
| 20:05.07 | levi | (except not nearly as enlightening, usually) |
| 20:05.25 | mrpull | levi: I like to get the whole article including images |
| 20:05.39 | mrpull | levi: I don't think i'm entitled to, but I like it when I can |
| 20:05.44 | scott_ | have you used the drupal module to aggregate? does it come w/ drupal? |
| 20:05.45 | levi | And that should be an option for someone publishing a syndication feed. |
| 20:05.59 | levi | scott_: It does come with Drupal, and I use Drupal, but I haven't used the aggregator module. |
| 20:06.36 | levi | But the feed publisher should have the option of choosing what gets published, whether it be full content or an abstract. |
| 20:07.00 | levi | Most academic journals don't freely publish their entire content, as much as I would like them to. |
| 20:07.23 | scott_ | levi, is it really easy to change how drupal looks? |
| 20:07.57 | levi | scott_: It's not too hard. |
| 20:08.19 | levi | There may also be an aggregator module for Your Favorite CMS, so you might want to check that too. |
| 20:08.31 | scott_ | levi, what's your site using drupal? |
| 20:08.39 | levi | Yes, my site is currently using drupal. |
| 20:09.12 | *** join/#utah alphahawk (~alphahawk@70.56.105.158) |
| 20:09.15 | scott_ | well, I just wrote my blog/site from scratch in php and I haven't even gotten around to writing my own rss feed, so I could write an aggregator, but I figured I'd see what there is already available |
| 20:09.24 | levi | I will probably switch it to some custom system at some point, because I need a practice project, I don't like how drupal does some things, and I don't feel like hacking PHP to fix it. |
| 20:09.47 | levi | s/hacking PHP/modifying the PHP-based drupal source code/ |
| 20:10.43 | levi | scott_: Google knows more about it than I do. You've reached the limit of my RSS aggregator knowledge. |
| 20:11.06 | scott_ | yeah, I'm installing drupal atm to see how it works |
| 20:11.30 | scott_ | I just think it would be great to have one site I could go to that had all the news, blog entries, my emails, etc. |
| 20:11.39 | scott_ | but from a dozen different sites |
| 20:11.47 | scott_ | all ordered by date |
| 20:14.15 | levi | scott_: Yeah, Drupal would probably work for that. And if you like programming in PHP, it's a good base to write custom modules from. |
| 20:14.45 | levi | hans: That methodologies.txt file is good sense. What's RUP, though? |
| 20:16.07 | hans | levi: heh, I don't know. I don't much care. I just figured it was Yet Another Overhyped Obfuscation |
| 20:16.11 | bucky | Drupal has a large user base and an active forum |
| 20:17.24 | hans | scott_: I'm not a bloglines user, but I think it would perhaps do it. |
| 20:17.24 | levi | hans: Yeah. I figure it's the same sort of thing as UML. And I have similar thoughts about UML. |
| 20:18.27 | levi | I.e., it's great as a common language you can use to describe things so others will clearly understand you, but imparts no magic ability to actually design something to the user. |
| 20:19.47 | hans | exactly |
| 20:23.50 | levi | That's all I ever really understood UML as, since I haven't read too much about it aside from some simple tutorials. Didn't understand why people seemed standoffish about it. |
| 20:24.29 | levi | I mean, people draw UML-like diagrams on their whiteboards all the time. |
| 20:24.44 | hans | uml proper is overly large and about as impossible to learn as C++. But like C++ a subset of the thing is useful |
| 20:25.07 | hans | I do psuedo-uml. You don't have to be a genius to understand UML, just to argue about it. |
| 20:25.14 | levi | Yeah. |
| 20:25.33 | levi | I don't see the point of formalizing diagrams to the point that they can be directly converted to code. |
| 20:25.47 | levi | If you're writing diagrams with that level of detail, you should be writing code instead! |
| 20:26.20 | hans | the reverse might be useful |
| 20:26.20 | levi | Maybe not in the final implementation language, but certainly a rapid-prototyping language. |
| 20:27.30 | bucky | is there a python cms ? |
| 20:27.58 | levi | bucky: Yeah, in fact, it's a python 'killer app' |
| 20:28.07 | bucky | really |
| 20:28.31 | levi | Zope |
| 20:28.45 | bucky | that's a framework |
| 20:29.03 | levi | Well, it's a CMS framework. |
| 20:29.04 | bucky | oh.. i forgot about plone |
| 20:31.37 | levi | I'm sort-of designing a web-based knowlege-management app in the back of my head. |
| 20:32.07 | bucky | what kind levi? |
| 20:32.09 | levi | Going to implement it, unless I change my mind later, in Common Lisp. |
| 20:33.35 | levi | Well, the idea behind it is to be able to easily capture the random bits of insight, interesting links, and design brainstorming sessions I have into a central online location, and be able to browse/search/view them in interesting and varied ways. |
| 20:34.14 | levi | So, whenever I sit down at an internet-connected computer, I can pull up research I did on something and continue on. |
| 20:35.31 | bucky | ever see www.afterstep.org |
| 20:35.45 | levi | I haven't got a really concrete vision of it yet, but it's starting to solidify. |
| 20:36.10 | bucky | it's pretty |
| 20:36.26 | levi | ...? I haven't wanted an OpenStep-like window manager for years. But I did use afterstep at one point. |
| 20:37.49 | bucky | their website is pretty |
| 20:38.57 | bucky | php has a lot of frameworks now right? |
| 20:39.32 | bucky | levi afterstep is written in lisp right? |
| 20:42.29 | levi | Afterstep is in C, as far as I know. |
| 20:43.10 | levi | gnustep has lots of Objective-C code, if that's what you're thinking of. |
| 20:43.57 | levi | But that's only distantly related to Lisp. |
| 20:44.39 | bucky | maybe it was sawfish |
| 20:45.26 | levi | Ah, yeah. You can configure sawfish via a Lisp of some sort. |
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| 20:46.13 | bucky | there are two new python frameworks.. relatively new |
| 20:46.27 | levi | Looks like sawfish's lisp is scheme with special vars. |
| 20:46.39 | bucky | one is Myghty which is billed a HTML:Mason for python |
| 20:47.13 | bucky | and the other in called newvow based on the twisted server |
| 20:48.34 | bucky | sorry nevow |
| 20:48.59 | bucky | which has java-script glue for sending client side events to the server and server side events to the client after the page has loaded |
| 20:50.51 | levi | bucky: This is a really interesting web framework: http://seaside.st/ |
| 20:51.56 | levi | There are now frameworks in other languages that use that model, but Seaside was one of the forerunners of the continuation-based web framework space. |
| 20:52.26 | bucky | ic |
| 20:53.48 | levi | Smalltalk is a really nice environment to do development in, but it's rather unlike the typical unix programming environment. |
| 20:55.39 | bucky | so you run this in comanche |
| 20:57.26 | levi | Are you familiar with Squeak/Smalltalk? |
| 20:57.47 | scott_ | Hula looks very cool (http://www.hula-project.org/index.php/Screenshots) |
| 20:58.31 | hans | heh. rather unlike. that's an understatement |
| 20:58.36 | bucky | levi, not really |
| 20:59.23 | levi | Hula looks cool if you want a web-based PIM. |
| 21:00.09 | levi | bucky: Seaside works along with a Smalltalk-based web browser. It can also work, via mod_proxy or something, along with apache as well. |
| 21:00.28 | levi | Er, s/web browser/web server/ |
| 21:00.46 | levi | Comanche is one of the Smalltalk web servers, but there are a couple others. |
| 21:03.21 | bucky | levi, i like it... but i need something that _many_ other people are working on so i can get support and have other benifits of a so called mature project |
| 21:04.00 | levi | bucky: Like I said, lots of other frameworks are running with the continuation-based server thing. |
| 21:04.42 | bucky | oh i hear ya.. i just don't have the tech skills to be dropped off in that environment and swim |
| 21:05.52 | bucky | not by myself anyway |
| 21:07.06 | levi | Apache Cocoon, for example. See: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-contin.html |
| 21:08.19 | bucky | oh don't take me there.. i'm trying to get away from java |
| 21:08.37 | levi | If you're going to be dropped off and asked to swim in any unfamiliar environment, Smalltalk is probably the one to do it in. But if you're already familiar with something... |
| 21:10.09 | levi | I don't think PHP is equipped to do that sort of thing. Nor is perl. |
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| 21:11.06 | Jayce^ | to do what sort of thing? |
| 21:11.08 | levi | You could do it in Ruby, though. There are a couple of Ruby frameworks that are based on Seaside. |
| 21:11.14 | levi | Jayce^: Continuation-based web frameworks. |
| 21:11.34 | Jayce^ | IIRC there is something, but I can't remember what it was.. |
| 21:11.41 | Jayce^ | been a while since I was looking at frameworks.. |
| 21:11.49 | levi | Unless I'm mistaken, Perl 5 doesn't have continuations nor the requisite access to the stack needed to implement them. |
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| 21:12.28 | Jayce^ | there are, but perl 6 will be vastly improved.. |
| 21:12.48 | Jayce^ | Damian had a presentation on it a year or so ago |
| 21:13.15 | bucky | scott_, that hula project is interesting and they have a channel here #hula with 80 people in it |
| 21:13.29 | levi | Jayce^: Yeah, I'm aware of that. |
| 21:13.51 | levi | I guess someone's hacked a perl module to simulate continuations, so you can use a continuation-based web framework in perl. |
| 21:13.57 | levi | I don't know if anyone's done it for PHP, though. |
| 21:13.58 | Jayce^ | correct |
| 21:14.06 | Jayce^ | just do it in PHP in perl :-p |
| 21:14.30 | Jayce^ | orbit was just joking about that with me.. instead of using INLINE:: for internal code, do : |
| 21:14.33 | scott_ | bucky, yeah, I think they shut down access to the subversion site |
| 21:14.45 | Jayce^ | http://search.cpan.org/~karasik/PHP-0.02/PHP.pm |
| 21:15.04 | bucky | scott_, novell is hosting the code now afaik from what the site said |
| 21:15.46 | hans | it's amusing. the big boss occasionally needs to know what versin of glibc we're running. why, I don't know. every tim I have to google how to find out, since I'm not about to keep something like what glibc version we have in my head |
| 21:15.58 | hans | just another silly dance of the corporate world. |
| 21:16.15 | levi | I'm looking at example code for some Contize module that's supposed to simulate continuations, but I can't figure out for the life of me what the Perl code is supposed to be doing. |
| 21:16.47 | levi | I hate Perl. It's opaque unless you spend a lot of time learning it. |
| 21:17.45 | Jayce^ | or you fit the mentality :) |
| 21:17.53 | Jayce^ | that's the biggest part of it |
| 21:18.16 | bucky | scott_, svn checkout svn+ssh://anonymous@forgesvn1.novell.com/svn/hula/trunk/hula |
| 21:18.36 | levi | No, it doesn't matter if you fit the mentality if you don't know what all the funky little sigils are, and what assumptions the interpreter is making. |
| 21:19.05 | Jayce^ | yes it does.. for me sigils make things very obvious, whereas the lack is more difficult |
| 21:19.27 | Jayce^ | knowing the interpreters assumptions is something you'll have to get into *any* language for |
| 21:19.37 | levi | Jayce^: Did you not read what I said? If you don't know the sigils... |
| 21:20.23 | levi | Some interpreters make more assumptions than others. Perl lets you leave out a bunch of stuff and assumes defaults. Most other languages require you to be more explicit. |
| 21:21.05 | scott_ | bucky, yeah, I'm doing that, but it's just sitting there until it finally times out |
| 21:21.11 | scott_ | bucky, did it download for you? |
| 21:21.26 | levi | Jayce^: None of this is an issue once you've sufficiently learned Perl. |
| 21:22.30 | jinro | quick awk question: $0 means entire line, but when evoked after a $1, etc, it acts pretty much like a wild card, right? When evoked after |
| 21:22.45 | Jayce^ | same goes for any language though, that's all I'm saying |
| 21:23.00 | hans | to write. he's takling about reading |
| 21:23.31 | jinro | quick awk question: $0 means entire line, but when evoked after a $1, etc, it acts pretty much like a wild card, right? When evoked after another $arg it will just print from that field to the end of line? |
| 21:23.40 | Jayce^ | goes the same.. didn't learn to write english without learning to read it also |
| 21:24.16 | hans | a lot of people can read english that can't write it worth a darn. same with other languages, computer or no. |
| 21:24.27 | hans | perl seems to close that gap somewhat. |
| 21:25.24 | Jayce^ | seems more of a problem of expression, than of comprehension.. |
| 21:28.58 | bucky | scott_, novells got their paths all messed up.. it happens.. i can't browse or get anything from their website |
| 21:29.07 | bucky | http://forge.novell.com/modules/xfmod/svn/svnbrowse.php?repname=hula |
| 21:30.06 | Jayce^ | rofl... |
| 21:30.12 | Jayce^ | "..while employed by Novell I was not allowed to voice ANY sort of opinion about SCO's lawsuits even though as an IT industry insider it's obvious that I HELD an opinion. Following my departure from Novell, I cheerfully mocked SCO and McBride with impunity, expressing an opinion formed from publicly available facts and the application of the same intelligence available to any primate capable of walking upright." |
| 21:35.01 | bucky | i have no opinion on that |
| 21:42.19 | bucky | scott_, it worked for me.. i had to type in anonymous as the passwd it wouldn't let me paste it in |
| 21:42.34 | bucky | svn checkout svn+ssh://anonymous@forgesvn1.novell.com/svn/hula/trunk/hula |
| 21:47.54 | tene | gah, my pocketpc is being a jerk again |
| 21:47.58 | tene | that is to say |
| 21:48.05 | tene | gah, windows is being stupid about usb devices again |
| 21:50.05 | bucky | scott_, if you want it i tarred it up for you here ftp://huckfinn.mine.nu/pub/hula |
| 21:53.48 | Jayce^ | man, jamiroqui - canned heat pops up and the playlist, and I can't keep from laughing... |
| 21:53.57 | Jayce^ | "Just Dance..." |
| 21:59.12 | levi | Jayce^: I've probably spent as much effort trying to learn Perl as I have trying to learn Java, which is not a lot. Yet, I can understand what Java code is doing much more often than Perl code. This is my point: Perl has a lot of implicit stuff that you must have a good knowledge of the Perl interpreter to understand. It's just totally invisible in the code. |
| 22:01.16 | levi | This is not necessarily a bad thing once you know Perl well. It is, however, a severe impediment to understanding Perl code if you do not know Perl well. |
| 22:02.41 | levi | I've read enough about Perl to know that this sort of thing is going on, but not enough to actually remember specific examples or actually understand a random chunk of Perl code very well. |
| 22:04.22 | levi | And again, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the utility of Perl to Perl programmers. |
| 22:04.51 | levi | So don't bother trying to defend against some attack I'm not making. |
| 22:05.03 | bucky | lol |
| 22:11.36 | levi | Wow, that Contize thing creates an internal call stack in each object to keep track of method invocations. |
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| 22:11.43 | levi | As far as I can tell, at least. |
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| 22:12.25 | Jayce^ | you seem to be missing the point I was making.. you learning java fast vs perl (your example) is largely because you a) have experience/preference in the style b) already have an aptitude to it's style, etc.. |
| 22:12.33 | Jayce^ | I was commenting on user style in learning.. |
| 22:13.14 | Jayce^ | example would be say people who learn perl easier might have a tendency to use 'it' when talking... why, because of the style (implicit usage, etc) |
| 22:13.38 | Jayce^ | not an argument of language value, but of user style making langage x easier for that person to grok |
| 22:14.09 | levi | I'm just saying that there's a lot of context in a perl script that's not in the language of the script itself, but provided by the language. There's also a lot of syntax, too. |
| 22:14.23 | levi | Er, provided by the interpreter. |
| 22:14.45 | Jayce^ | right, because in perls case it was designed by a linguist.. and that's something that makes it easier for some people to get, and harder for others.. |
| 22:14.51 | levi | Using 'it' in natural language usually requires an antecedent that's been mentioned in conversation before. |
| 22:15.14 | stuporglue | Does anyone have a sample latex file they could send me? |
| 22:15.20 | Jayce^ | often, yes, and same with perl, but not *always*.. |
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| 22:15.41 | levi | I get Perl just fine when I bother to refresh myself with all the little quirks of the interpreter. I just tend to forget them, because I don't use Perl often. |
| 22:16.18 | Jayce^ | if something *seems* obvious, in english, you don't necessarily have to define it, at least in spoken english... the context is given with the environment.. |
| 22:16.25 | levi | Right. |
| 22:16.41 | levi | English is not particularly friendly to outsiders, either. |
| 22:16.53 | Jayce^ | right, you've taken the time to learn, and you have the capability... I can say the same with languages I've studied, and havent' used for a while.. |
| 22:17.08 | Jayce^ | it isnt', but it is a powerful, colorful language |
| 22:17.14 | levi | I'm not saying it's not! |
| 22:17.38 | Jayce^ | I'm not saying you are :) I'm carrying the analogy out .. |
| 22:17.53 | levi | With a more explicit language, it's easier for an outsider to reason from the context of the source code itself. |
| 22:18.16 | levi | There's less knowledge outside of the source code that's necessary to understand the flow of the program. |
| 22:19.18 | levi | Anyway, I agree that Perl is a powerful, colorful language. |
| 22:19.40 | levi | If I invested the time to learn it really well and kept up with practicing it, I might even find it pleasant. |
| 22:21.16 | levi | I just don't have any incentive to do so, and so bumping up against the (unintentional, I'm sure) barriers it has to outsider understanding is annoying to me. |
| 22:21.42 | levi | It is interesting that you can intercept method invocations on an object, though. |
| 22:24.10 | levi | Jayce^: Is there any way to actually get at the call stack of the interpreter itself, though? Is Perl 5 implemented as a virtual machine? |
| 22:24.29 | Jayce^ | yes |
| 22:24.36 | levi | Yes to which? |
| 22:24.42 | Jayce^ | VM |
| 22:24.55 | Jayce^ | can do a lot with it in mid-run |
| 22:25.04 | Jayce^ | deep magic is very accessible |
| 22:25.14 | levi | But can you get to the call stack? I suspect not, if these attempts to make continuations are creating their own. |
| 22:25.27 | Jayce^ | I haven't played with it.. |
| 22:25.40 | Jayce^ | would have to forward that on to other folks :) |
| 22:25.51 | Jayce^ | seems like you could though |
| 22:25.57 | levi | Real continuations save the call stack and restore it later. |
| 22:25.57 | Jayce^ | I know you can play with it in the debugger |
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| 22:30.25 | levi | I see that you can get the contents of the stack, but I haven't found any evidence of a way to modify it. |
| 22:42.12 | levi | Anyway, Perl 6 will have first-class continuations. I wonder if they'll be serializable? Of unlimited extent? |
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| 22:57.33 | Jayce^ | autrijis tang was talking about that.. |
| 22:57.46 | scott_ | how fast is the dvd portion of a 24x cd/dvd combo drives? |
| 22:58.00 | scott_ | does it vary? |
| 22:58.05 | Jayce^ | there was a big discussion about how to allow that, without big penalties or anything, especially with all the different languages |
| 23:00.35 | levi | The way scheme works, you can do a call/cc, save the continuation, and then invoke it any number of times and at any point in a program's execution. |
| 23:01.03 | levi | Which has its good points and bad points. |
| 23:01.22 | Jayce^ | yeah, they were discussing a few models, but I'm only on the summary version of that list |
| 23:01.30 | Jayce^ | not my forte |
| 23:02.16 | levi | The advantage of that is that they're serializable, so you can save it to disk, or send it off to a remote client and get it back later, etc. |
| 23:02.38 | Jayce^ | yeah, the network callback stack is somethign that scares a lot of people |
| 23:03.50 | levi | So a scheme-based web framework can actually store the continuation in a hidden field on the page. This eliminates the session-locked load balancing problem of continuation-based web servers that store the continuation on the server. |
| 23:04.20 | levi | Also avoids the need to time out sessions, since they take no storage space. |
| 23:05.15 | levi | I imagine you could simulate this stuff with perl 5 using a method similar to the one Contize uses. |
| 23:25.30 | *** part/#utah orbit (~hanksdc_n@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 23:25.50 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (~hatchmt@216.48.31.42) |
| 23:31.34 | tensai | about:config is *awesome* |
| 23:31.57 | Jayce^ | http://www.shockerz.net/wowresource/ <-- for all wow folks |
| 23:32.04 | hatchmt | agreed. :) |
| 23:32.05 | Jayce^ | a reverse engineered WOW server! |
| 23:33.52 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_ (~xbmodder@adsl-66-127-53-64.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 23:33.55 | xbmodder_ | hello ums? |
| 23:34.23 | xbmodder_remote | wasup all!? |
| 23:35.33 | hans | iq. you? |
| 23:36.30 | vontrapp | what is the acpi embeded controller? |
| 23:38.01 | xbmodder_remote | iq? |
| 23:38.09 | xbmodder_remote | IQ you mean? |
| 23:38.36 | xbmodder_remote | vontrapp: what is not xbmodder? |
| 23:39.04 | scott_ | Jayce^, that's pretty quick, normally takes longer |
| 23:40.44 | xbmodder_remote | what does? Kernel COMPILE?! |
| 23:41.49 | hans | kernel deletion. |
| 23:46.55 | xbmodder_remote | kernel deletion is really quick.. rm -rf /boot/ker* |
| 23:49.53 | vontrapp | haha, /me calls up hp and asks them for the manufacturer/chipset/controller of the card reader |
| 23:51.23 | *** part/#utah RyanE (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 23:51.28 | vontrapp | ah, just rm -rf /boot just to make sure you get any funny naming convetion kernels |
| 23:52.00 | vontrapp | like mine, i have the compile date at the beginning |
| 23:55.08 | hans | ~lart backorders |
| 23:56.58 | *** join/#utah L3hi8rk5 (~L3hi8rk5@CPE00045af32e95-CM00080d863044.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |