| 00:00.07 | mrpull | is hurd ever really going to be more than an academic project? |
| 00:00.42 | sjansen | the linux kernel developers are doing there best to help it |
| 00:01.13 | mrpull | yeah... where is 2.7 anyway :) |
| 00:01.55 | Newsome | The development model has changed |
| 00:02.32 | mrpull | i understand. can they change it back? i think the stock kernel should be stable before redhat and friends get to it. |
| 00:02.57 | Newsome | things aren't supposed to go into -linus until they've spent some time in some other tree getting the bugs out |
| 00:03.03 | mheath | mrpull: "academic project"? |
| 00:03.17 | mheath | How is a fully working, fully operational complete, stable OS used by hundreds of people an academic project? |
| 00:03.32 | sjansen | uh, because it's used by hundreds of people |
| 00:03.36 | mrpull | yeah... that wasn't a good description was it? |
| 00:03.46 | mheath | mrpull: yes it was |
| 00:04.01 | mrpull | but it seems like it used for teaching theory... and not much else |
| 00:04.06 | mheath | It boots, gives you hundreds of utilities, internet, X11, full development environment, emacs |
| 00:04.32 | mrpull | (and until recently only supported 2GB partitions) |
| 00:04.39 | *** join/#utah antiflag (serjserj@cpe-066-56-100-202.triad.rr.com) |
| 00:04.57 | *** part/#utah antiflag (serjserj@cpe-066-56-100-202.triad.rr.com) |
| 00:05.26 | mheath | mrpull: that was a decision that was very logical at the time |
| 00:05.42 | sjansen | "logical" decisions like that make it academic |
| 00:05.50 | mheath | When that decision was made, no one had partitions that were 2GB. Its a memory mapping issue. It made perfect sense at the time |
| 00:06.33 | mheath | Why didn't it get fixed before now? Because no one who uses hurd really has a use for a partition thats bigger than that (still) and the few developers had more important things to work on |
| 00:07.12 | mrpull | that's why I suppose I'm not more impressed with it. |
| 00:07.30 | mheath | mrpull: what problems do you have now with Hurd? |
| 00:07.48 | mheath | You mentioned the 2GB limit... |
| 00:08.05 | mheath | Theres been a patch to fix that for months (granted it only made its way upstream about a month ago) |
| 00:08.17 | mheath | What other problems do you have? |
| 00:09.49 | mrpull | none really. i'd probably play with some other "hobby os" before hurd.... |
| 00:09.58 | mrpull | darwin mabye? |
| 00:10.07 | mheath | Hurd is not an OS, by the way |
| 00:10.10 | *** join/#utah bonez41 (~aint@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 00:10.15 | mheath | Its a program. |
| 00:10.17 | sjansen | What does Darwin have going for it? I'd use Hurd first. |
| 00:10.17 | mrpull | oh boy... understood |
| 00:10.50 | mheath | mrpull: When you talk about Hurd as an OS>.. |
| 00:10.52 | mrpull | what does hurd have on darwin |
| 00:10.54 | mheath | You refering to GNU? |
| 00:11.03 | mheath | mrpull: it's microkernel |
| 00:11.04 | sjansen | Darwin: help Apple improve code they'll take and add to a proprietary OS they won't share. |
| 00:11.12 | mheath | everythings userland |
| 00:11.15 | mrpull | right... we don't need to start the gnu/kernel discussion |
| 00:11.37 | sjansen | mheath: no need to be pedantic, just makes you look annoying |
| 00:12.17 | mheath | sjansen: What? I just asked him to clarify, I was confused about what he was talking about |
| 00:12.29 | mheath | Some of his comments I wasn't sure if he was talking about GNU, Debian GNU/Hurd, Hurd, or what |
| 00:13.02 | mrpull | okeedookee guys... i've gotta run. i'll give debian gnu/hurd a spin before I make any more hurd comments :-) |
| 00:13.41 | mheath | mrpull: make sure you use the current base tarball |
| 00:13.44 | mheath | not the CDs |
| 00:14.27 | levi | mheath: I see that they've got HURD/L4 executing a program now. |
| 00:15.57 | mheath | levi: yeah |
| 00:16.04 | mheath | Which is a BIG step, actually... |
| 00:16.24 | mheath | Because it means that from this point on, porting the rest of Hurd to L4 will be aeasy |
| 00:18.27 | *** part/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.116) |
| 00:20.11 | mheath | levi: init stuff on microkernels can sometimes be a bit tricky |
| 00:20.47 | levi | I might toy around with OS-level stuff sometime in Movitz. |
| 00:20.48 | sjansen | so can tying ones shoes, but society is built on more than that |
| 00:24.32 | bonez41 | I am trying to open Firefox..I hit ALT-F2 and enter mozilla-firefox and NOTHING happens.... |
| 00:24.50 | bonez41 | ps ax |grep firefox finds nothing running.....why won't it load? |
| 00:25.10 | sjansen | run it from a terminal, you should see some errors |
| 00:26.11 | bonez41 | it gives me this : scott@fyrenice:~$ mozilla-firefox INTERNAL ERROR on Browser End: Expected a version > 5! Version = 4 System error?:: No such file or directory |
| 00:26.30 | bonez41 | it has run all day long..and Ihaven't take it away...that Iknow of |
| 00:26.56 | sjansen | looks like someone did an apt-get update and broke their system... but that's just a guess |
| 00:27.10 | bonez41 | damn...that coudl be... |
| 00:27.31 | bonez41 | can i be that easy? my system did a crash about 30 minutes ago..I rebooted and it all looked ok... |
| 00:27.45 | bonez41 | will apt-get update and then upgrade get it going again? |
| 00:27.53 | sjansen | maybe |
| 00:27.59 | sjansen | depends on what broke |
| 00:28.09 | bonez41 | I get so dependent upon firefox... |
| 00:28.10 | sjansen | system crashes can have nasty surprises |
| 00:28.32 | bonez41 | well, I was trying to install xrms and before that mysql ... |
| 00:28.51 | bonez41 | and it crashed, not with installations running....but with lots of other apps running |
| 00:30.05 | bonez41 | I guess at the worst I can just apt-get install firefox...right? |
| 00:30.49 | sjansen | apt-get remove, apt-get install (hopefully) |
| 00:30.57 | sjansen | assuming the problem isn't lower in the chain |
| 00:31.08 | sjansen | which it looks like it might be |
| 00:35.21 | bonez41 | hmm that worked...it's back in business |
| 00:37.10 | sjansen | yay! |
| 00:37.59 | emcnabb | mheath, you around? |
| 00:38.33 | emcnabb | I figure I should give the hurd a chance |
| 00:39.40 | emcnabb | what's the best way to try it out? |
| 00:39.41 | emcnabb | http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/ |
| 00:40.03 | emcnabb | The Hurd is under active development, but does not provide the performance and stability you would expect from a production system. Also, only about every second Debian package has been ported to the GNU/Hurd. There is a lot of work to do before we can make a release. |
| 00:41.01 | emcnabb | http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/hurd-install |
| 00:47.14 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (~von@c-67-177-11-46.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:49.27 | emcnabb | downloading the 1st CD right now |
| 00:57.39 | spig | if you have memos in irc, how does one go about checking them? |
| 00:59.07 | spig | got it |
| 00:59.10 | spig | nm |
| 01:00.34 | spig | nope, didn't get it.. |
| 01:00.37 | spig | anyone? |
| 01:05.13 | mheath | memoserv |
| 01:05.26 | mheath | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:05.30 | mheath | emcnabb: no |
| 01:05.38 | mheath | Don't use the ISOs |
| 01:05.52 | mheath | last time I use them, they were very out of date and broken (That may be fixed now..) |
| 01:06.12 | spig | thanks mheath |
| 01:06.27 | emcnabb | it's a month old |
| 01:06.33 | emcnabb | that doesn't seem too old |
| 01:07.00 | mheath | emcnabb: they were broken when I used them last |
| 01:07.02 | emcnabb | what's a better way to do it |
| 01:07.04 | *** part/#utah spig (~knoppix@translate.sento.com) |
| 01:07.04 | emcnabb | ? |
| 01:07.18 | mheath | emcnabb: follow the instructions in http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/hurd-install |
| 01:12.32 | mheath | emcnabb: its exactly the same as what the CDs do... |
| 01:12.42 | mheath | Just with a more current base tarball |
| 01:14.54 | emcnabb | it's actually the same date |
| 01:15.06 | emcnabb | ok, so I'm downloading the tarball right now |
| 01:15.10 | emcnabb | partition has been created |
| 01:16.12 | mheath | Remember that you have to get a grub bootdisk, too |
| 01:18.22 | emcnabb | so grub on the MBR won't work? |
| 01:19.29 | mheath | Oh, that will work too |
| 01:20.53 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 01:27.03 | mheath | Anyone know a tool like gtkHTML, but allows me to interact with GTK through the HTML? |
| 01:27.29 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@josh.dsl.aros.net) |
| 01:27.33 | mheath | (IE, bind clicking on a link to a GTK action, or even embedd GTK widgets in the page) |
| 01:27.34 | sjansen | what do you mean "interact with GTK through the HTML"? |
| 01:28.22 | sjansen | Uh, that's what gtkhtml let's you do. Although it's a pain. |
| 01:29.05 | mheath | sjansen: I'm looking at GTKhtml, and it seems like its just for embedding HTML in your program |
| 01:29.10 | levi | You want to layout widgets with HTML? |
| 01:29.40 | sjansen | yes, but you can have a special extension to HTML that references GTK widgets |
| 01:29.50 | levi | That sounds totally nasty. |
| 01:30.03 | sjansen | oh it isn't pretty, that's for sure |
| 01:30.06 | mheath | levi: no, thats not what I want to do |
| 01:30.11 | sjansen | leastwise it wasn't last I looked at it |
| 01:30.25 | mheath | I want to display HTML within my GTK program, and have it so clicking on a link is the same as if I had clicked on a GTK button widget |
| 01:30.39 | mheath | sjansen: I'm having trouble finding documentation on gtkHTML.. |
| 01:30.50 | sjansen | no kidding, wish I could help, been about a year |
| 01:31.09 | levi | Ah, okay. So you want a html widget in GTK that understands links. |
| 01:31.15 | levi | That sounds much less nasty. :) |
| 01:31.37 | sjansen | levi: but you can use gtkhtml to layout gtk widgets too |
| 01:32.01 | sjansen | mheath: I'd probably look at the evolution source first. They're one of its biggest users. |
| 01:32.10 | levi | sjansen: Sounds like an incredibly braindead thing to do, but hey, if someone wants to do it... |
| 01:32.14 | emcnabb | mheath, it's booting... |
| 01:32.28 | emcnabb | .... it stopped booting |
| 01:32.32 | mheath | emcnabb: nice. You have to go through the whole (horrible) debian install |
| 01:32.36 | mheath | Whats the problem? |
| 01:33.13 | emcnabb | looks like it's having a problem loading the ext2fs server |
| 01:33.24 | mheath | Give me the error |
| 01:34.35 | emcnabb | start (hd0,7)/hurd/ext2fs.static: Hurd server bootstrap: ext2fs.static[device:hd0s8] exec |
| 01:34.50 | levi | It has no CD or floppy, so it's not exactly a trivial process. |
| 01:35.45 | sjansen | levi: If it supports PXE, drop by Guru Labs and we can netboot and install FC3 real easy like. |
| 01:35.55 | sjansen | Bring SUSE disks and we can do that too. |
| 01:36.03 | mheath | emcnabb: one sec |
| 01:38.47 | emcnabb | ok, I'm rebooting, going to try something out... |
| 01:39.07 | levi | sjansen: I dunno if it supports PXE. It will boot off a USB floppy, though. I wonder if it'll boot off this 256MB USB keychain... |
| 01:39.09 | emcnabb | it could have been a typo in that nasty grub module line(s) |
| 01:39.32 | emcnabb | let me check it out |
| 01:39.44 | vontrapp | |lart cingular |
| 01:39.47 | mheath | emcnabb: yeah, thats what I was thinking |
| 01:39.51 | vontrapp | ~lart cingular |
| 01:39.58 | vontrapp | ~whaleslap cingular |
| 01:40.00 | ibot | ACTION slaps cingular upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 01:40.01 | vontrapp | ~foot cingular |
| 01:40.05 | vontrapp | ~fish cingular |
| 01:40.09 | ibot | ACTION slaps cingular around with a large trout |
| 01:40.09 | mheath | emcnabb: also... |
| 01:40.09 | vontrapp | ~kill cingular |
| 01:40.14 | ibot | ACTION shoots a inverse anti-photon gun at cingular |
| 01:40.14 | vontrapp | ~maim cingular |
| 01:40.19 | vontrapp | ~shoot cingular |
| 01:40.22 | ibot | ACTION shoots cingular in the foot with a spitwad! |
| 01:40.33 | mheath | emcnabb: you sure that when you formatted the partition as ext2 that you did so with the Hurd-specific extensions? |
| 01:40.42 | sjansen | ~console vontrapp |
| 01:40.43 | ibot | ACTION gives vontrapp the consolation moose |
| 01:40.43 | emcnabb | yeah, the -o hurd |
| 01:41.13 | mheath | emcnabb: just try booting again, making sure you get the correct HDD and that you type it correctly |
| 01:41.18 | stuporgl1e | I want to make URLs on my server that are currently accesable via "foo.com/~bar" also be available via "bar.foo.com", anyone know what I should be looking up to find out how to do that? |
| 01:41.28 | emcnabb | yeah, I'm just going to cut and paste it from the install guide |
| 01:42.07 | sjansen | stuporgl1e: sounds like you want virtual hosting |
| 01:42.42 | sjansen | stuporgl1e: specifically http://httpd.apache.org/docs/vhosts/mass.html |
| 01:42.54 | stuporgl1e | I've been trying that, but haven't been successfull *back to google...* |
| 01:43.25 | sjansen | You tried with mod_vhost_alias? |
| 01:43.37 | stuporgl1e | mod_vhost_alias, no |
| 01:44.21 | stuporgl1e | I'll look at it though |
| 01:44.38 | sjansen | that's the easy way, the hard way is mod_rewrite |
| 01:45.00 | sjansen | you don't want mod_rewrite for two reasons: slower and harder to setup |
| 01:45.11 | stuporgl1e | Well, I just want every user's public_html to be available via user.foo.com |
| 01:45.37 | stuporgl1e | Eventually I'll be hosting a friends site too, but it should just be the two domains, and that's not for a while |
| 01:45.40 | hans | bonez41: hylafax uses a faxmodem yes |
| 01:45.57 | sjansen | stuporgl1e: How many is "every"? |
| 01:46.09 | emcnabb | mheath, here we go again |
| 01:46.20 | levi | hans: Do you have your fugal.org domain hosted through your dsl line? |
| 01:46.26 | sjansen | Because if it's a small number, manually writing vhost rules will be easier. |
| 01:46.44 | emcnabb | hum |
| 01:46.53 | emcnabb | it says it was not unmounted cleanly |
| 01:46.56 | emcnabb | (the partition) |
| 01:47.04 | mheath | emcnabb: well at least its working now :) |
| 01:47.06 | emcnabb | but it got farther than last time |
| 01:47.14 | mheath | Just wait, then |
| 01:47.20 | emcnabb | well, it loocked up |
| 01:47.35 | mheath | Whats it say? |
| 01:47.36 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 01:47.45 | mheath | Just say it wasn't umounted cleanly, then hangs? |
| 01:48.07 | stuporgl1e | only about 5 or so right now, but I'll probably be hosting my sibblings on it too. I guess I was just looking for a general solution :-) |
| 01:48.21 | emcnabb | Hurd server bootstrap: ext2fs.static[device:hd0s8] exec |
| 01:48.37 | emcnabb | the slice it 1 based right? |
| 01:48.52 | emcnabb | so partition 8 would be hd0s8 |
| 01:48.53 | mheath | Yeah. |
| 01:48.53 | sjansen | stuporgl1e: mod_vhost_alias is the general solution |
| 01:49.05 | emcnabb | let me reformat it |
| 01:49.18 | mheath | emcnabb: yeah. I've never seen a problem like that before..... |
| 01:49.25 | emcnabb | I used the -o |
| 01:49.26 | emcnabb | oh well |
| 01:49.33 | emcnabb | it's 1.5 GB (under the limit) |
| 01:49.49 | mheath | The limit doesn't exist anymore |
| 01:49.51 | stuporgl1e | cool, thanks |
| 01:50.13 | mheath | But the fix may not be in that tarball, so..yeah. |
| 01:55.46 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 01:56.13 | emcnabb | when I tried to mount the partition under linux it complained about it needing to be fsck'ed, so I did. On reboot it still failed |
| 01:56.24 | emcnabb | I'll reformat it and start over |
| 01:57.28 | mheath | emcnabb: yeah, Hurd's ext2fs stuff has some weird quirks.. |
| 01:59.55 | sjansen | heh |
| 02:00.11 | levi | sjansen: This sounds even worse than installing Debian, eh? |
| 02:00.25 | levi | Debian Linux, that is. |
| 02:00.31 | sjansen | levi: Oh just wait, emcnabb still has to install Debian on top. |
| 02:04.32 | emcnabb | moment of truth... |
| 02:05.44 | emcnabb | :-( |
| 02:06.35 | sjansen | emcnabb: no joy? |
| 02:06.41 | emcnabb | nope |
| 02:06.44 | sjansen | And the truth is that Hurd is still a minor, mostly academic project. |
| 02:07.32 | emcnabb | start (hd0,7)/hurd/ext2fs.static: Hurd server bootstrap: ext2fs.static[device:hd0s8] exec |
| 02:07.36 | emcnabb | then it hangs |
| 02:09.06 | levi | Of course, many wonderful things were once just minor, mostly academic projects. And probably much more fun in that state than they are now. |
| 02:09.39 | sjansen | Yes, X is an example of something that started as an academic project. |
| 02:09.48 | sjansen | Most of them mature is less than a decade, however. |
| 02:20.37 | sjansen | "Java is preferable to C++ in exactly the same way that driving a 1994 Chevy Impala is preferable to driving a 1978 Ford LTD." |
| 02:20.44 | sjansen | -- Phil Windley |
| 02:21.05 | vontrapp | ok, what is the bash magic again for *.a -> *.b |
| 02:21.18 | emcnabb | mheath, well, I'm giving up |
| 02:21.20 | emcnabb | thanks for the help |
| 02:21.36 | sjansen | vontrapp: don't remember the "correct" one, but this works |
| 02:21.46 | tensai | vontrapp: for i in *.a; do base=`basename $i .a`; mv $i $base.b; done |
| 02:23.27 | vontrapp | good, so for i in *.xpm; do base=`basename $i .xpm`; convert $i $base.png; done |
| 02:24.10 | tensai | looks good to me |
| 02:24.14 | sjansen | for I in * do; echo ${I/.a/.b}; done |
| 02:27.49 | tensai | sjansen: that's awesome |
| 02:27.58 | sjansen | and here's the more correct way: |
| 02:30.20 | sjansen | FROM=xpm |
| 02:30.23 | sjansen | TO=png |
| 02:30.29 | sjansen | for I in *.$FROM; do echo ${I} ${I%$FROM}$TO; done |
| 02:31.08 | sjansen | adding quotes and turning this into a function is left as an exercise for the reader. |
| 02:32.49 | levi | Crap, it doesn't boot from the USB drive. |
| 02:35.28 | emcnabb | same with my laptop |
| 02:36.19 | sjansen | levi: I have a usb 2.0 laptop hard drive enclosure you could borrow |
| 02:36.33 | emcnabb | it's too bad GRUB doesn't have USB support built in (to boot from USB devices); LILO does |
| 02:36.40 | emcnabb | I think there are some patches out there for it |
| 02:36.46 | emcnabb | (GRUB) |
| 02:36.52 | levi | sjansen: If it was PCMCIA-IDE, it might be helpful. |
| 02:37.05 | sjansen | although if you do the install on you desktop and transfer the hard drive, you have a mess of hardware probing to do |
| 02:37.27 | emcnabb | I have a PCMCIA card with a 340 MB Microdrive that fits in it :-) |
| 02:37.41 | levi | Heh, nice. |
| 02:38.01 | levi | I suppose I could get a PCMCIA card that reads SD cards, and have a 1gb drive. |
| 02:38.07 | emcnabb | I actually have a 1 GB compact flash card in my camera |
| 02:38.22 | emcnabb | you can borrow mine if you want |
| 02:38.24 | levi | Mine's in my treo. |
| 02:38.30 | emcnabb | cool |
| 02:38.56 | emcnabb | I got one of the free 128 MB SD cards with my Treo |
| 02:39.09 | levi | I know I can do this via a floppy or loadlin.exe or something, but if the USB stick worked, it would have been nice. |
| 02:39.29 | emcnabb | once I get the bluetooth GPS adapter I'll need a bigger card for all those maps |
| 02:39.38 | emcnabb | (that's the plan at least) |
| 02:55.43 | vontrapp | amazing what you can do with css |
| 02:55.53 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@70-58-42-135.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:55.58 | vontrapp | http://gnat.fugal.net/chess |
| 02:56.09 | vontrapp | still under construction, of course |
| 02:56.35 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@70-58-42-135.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:59.12 | vontrapp | note the alternate style sheets |
| 03:01.29 | levi | vontrapp: Where's fugal.org hosted? |
| 03:03.04 | levi | Er, fugal.net |
| 03:04.01 | levi | Well, I answered my own question with a traceroute. |
| 03:05.33 | hans | levi: right here |
| 03:05.46 | sjansen | what's the Debian equivalent of rpm -qi package |
| 03:05.46 | levi | hans: Through your dsl, right? |
| 03:05.56 | sjansen | ? |
| 03:06.05 | vontrapp | except gnat.fugal.net is elsewhere |
| 03:06.13 | vontrapp | it's my work computer |
| 03:06.21 | levi | I'm thinking of dropping my webhosting and just running stuff off my dsl. |
| 03:06.43 | hans | sjansen: what does rpm -qi do? |
| 03:07.17 | sjansen | prints information about a currently installed package |
| 03:07.28 | hans | probably dpkg --status |
| 03:07.31 | sjansen | version, description, when it was compiled, etc. |
| 03:07.36 | vontrapp | hans: are the folks there? |
| 03:07.45 | hans | no, tomorrow |
| 03:08.29 | vontrapp | so heather's meat is tomorrow at 4? |
| 03:08.34 | hans | 11 |
| 03:08.40 | hans | 4 was today |
| 03:08.49 | vontrapp | and then they went back? |
| 03:09.01 | hans | no, dad was here and went back but mom isn't coming until tomorrow |
| 03:09.06 | vontrapp | seems like a mighty drive |
| 03:09.08 | vontrapp | oic |
| 03:09.25 | vontrapp | ttfn then |
| 03:11.28 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (~von@c-67-177-11-46.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:17.06 | goozbach | ahh the beneiftts of first class |
| 03:17.19 | goozbach | I bet there are still people trying to get off that plane. |
| 03:20.27 | Maquis | gah... the apple "earbuds" are painful! |
| 03:21.22 | sjansen | ah the benefits of don't make me jump you when you get to work Monday |
| 03:22.27 | goozbach | sjansen: I'll be in Canada |
| 03:22.35 | goozbach | visiting our neighbors to the south |
| 03:23.03 | goozbach | what's the PM meeting on come wed? |
| 03:23.42 | Maquis | ummmm |
| 03:24.28 | Maquis | i never knew that canada was south... |
| 03:24.28 | goozbach | NM I finally got to the forwarded email |
| 03:24.38 | goozbach | dammit I want to be here for that one |
| 03:24.49 | goozbach | Maquis: if you go far enough :) |
| 03:24.57 | Maquis | ah... |
| 03:25.09 | sjansen | I hope there's a blizzard and you're stuck in Canada. |
| 03:26.03 | Maquis | sjansen: you want him sitting around in canada fooling off in the snow while you're giving a class on ldap?? |
| 03:26.41 | sjansen | no, I want him stuck in Canada freezing vital body parts off while I'm landing before 7pm |
| 03:26.49 | goozbach | sjansen: sounds like a plan |
| 03:27.02 | goozbach | you create the blizzard and I'll take my snowboard |
| 03:34.04 | Maquis | http://www.star.ucl.ac.uk/~apod/apod/ |
| 03:35.00 | sjansen | It's Jabba being sucked into a worm hole trying to eat pop-rocks. |
| 03:35.54 | sjansen | Do they even sell pop-rocks anymore? |
| 03:36.21 | *** join/#utah markl_ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 03:37.39 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 03:40.59 | levi | Hrm. Loadlin just hangs my machine. |
| 03:41.19 | sjansen | How old is the machine? |
| 03:43.43 | levi | A few years. |
| 03:43.54 | levi | It's a Sony PCG-C1VN. |
| 03:53.06 | levi | I think the way I succeeded last time was to have a boot disk that had SCSI cd drivers. |
| 03:53.21 | levi | It's been a long time. That original hd is dead now. |
| 03:53.31 | levi | I have a smaller, louder, but free one in it now. |
| 03:56.55 | Maquis | Mecworks: you no touch!!! |
| 03:56.57 | Maquis | :) |
| 03:57.05 | Mecworks | 8^) |
| 03:57.08 | goozbach | BAD TOUCH!!! |
| 04:01.34 | sjansen | Maquis: sheesh, no need to be so touchy |
| 04:02.01 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 04:08.18 | Mecworks | How could sjansen miss Mecwork's dog? |
| 04:08.37 | goozbach | Mecworks: don't ask... |
| 04:08.51 | Maquis | ack! |
| 04:09.01 | goozbach | lets just say... that weekend your dog dissapeared... |
| 04:09.04 | goozbach | yeah.... |
| 04:09.10 | sjansen | Maquis: how about a cat? Every child should have a pet. |
| 04:09.21 | Mecworks | cats are evil. |
| 04:09.27 | Maquis | i had a lizard for a cople months until it went anorexic |
| 04:09.32 | sjansen | only if you're allergic to them |
| 04:09.39 | Mecworks | dogs know that, that's why they chase cats... |
| 04:09.46 | goozbach | sjansen: cats are inherently evil |
| 04:09.52 | goozbach | even if you aren't allergic |
| 04:09.59 | sjansen | lizards, fish, and other non-cuddly animals that can't destroy a living room don't count |
| 04:10.04 | Maquis | i had a gerbil for a while too, but we had to take it back to the pet store because it liked to bite people for no reason |
| 04:10.25 | goozbach | given enough time a gerbil could destroy a living room |
| 04:10.26 | sjansen | almost a real pet |
| 04:10.32 | goozbach | I say it counts |
| 04:10.50 | Maquis | the only person that ever held the gerbil without it drawing blood was my dad... and that was simply because he has really thick skin... |
| 04:10.55 | sjansen | only if it lives more than 3 months, which is hard for a gerbil |
| 04:11.18 | Maquis | and i think it drew blood once... |
| 04:11.24 | goozbach | ~addlart sicks a pack of rabid gerbils on $who |
| 04:11.33 | goozbach | meh |
| 04:11.43 | Maquis | other than that, i had the occasional garter snake from the vacant lot next door |
| 04:11.57 | Maquis | they bit occasionally, but were usually pretty mild-tempered |
| 04:12.22 | Maquis | sjansen: i'd like a cuddly pet |
| 04:12.30 | Maquis | but my mom's allergic to anything that qualifies as "cuddly" |
| 04:12.37 | Maquis | (so is my dad, actually) |
| 04:12.59 | Maquis | so, my pets were never very cuddly |
| 04:13.06 | Maquis | i really did like my lizard a lot |
| 04:14.04 | Maquis | i kinda had a pet walking-leaf... it was technically my middle school's, but it wouldn't let anybody else hold it... |
| 04:14.21 | Maquis | it's name was igor |
| 04:14.24 | sjansen | didn't know they were that smart |
| 04:14.30 | Maquis | me neither |
| 04:14.36 | goozbach | I want a pet ferret |
| 04:14.44 | Maquis | i think it's just that everyone else held it in awkward ways that made it upset |
| 04:14.44 | sjansen | If we're going to count school I had pet rats. |
| 04:14.48 | goozbach | to be my guard ferret |
| 04:14.52 | sjansen | Cleaning a rat cage isn't fun. |
| 04:15.06 | goozbach | ferrets are smart |
| 04:15.10 | Maquis | in 7th grade, the entire school year, our science class focused on insects and spiders |
| 04:15.15 | goozbach | you can teach em tricks |
| 04:15.18 | sjansen | ferrets don't strike me as very loyal |
| 04:15.19 | Maquis | we started out the year with 4 walking sticks |
| 04:15.27 | Maquis | at the end of the year, we gave up counting at 1500 |
| 04:15.30 | goozbach | like biting sjansen on the nose |
| 04:15.44 | goozbach | or tearing up sjansen pant legs |
| 04:15.49 | Maquis | goozbach: ferrets are pretty! |
| 04:16.02 | goozbach | yeah they be sneaky too |
| 04:16.20 | Maquis | hehehe |
| 04:16.22 | goozbach | sjansen: you won't see them cause they sneaky |
| 04:16.33 | goozbach | sjansen: you still at the office? |
| 04:16.43 | sjansen | yeah, working on the Plug CMS |
| 04:17.06 | goozbach | do they have my packet done for next week? |
| 04:17.09 | sjansen | goozbach: here, borrow mine |
| 04:17.17 | sjansen | goozbach: I'll check |
| 04:17.28 | goozbach | I don't want to waste a trip to bountiful for nada |
| 04:17.59 | Maquis | byron's doing his presentation for plug too? cool! |
| 04:18.22 | sjansen | goozbach: I don't see one. But you're pay stub is here. |
| 04:18.52 | Maquis | goozbach: that sounds like it'd be worth driving for! |
| 04:18.53 | goozbach | meh that's not important enough |
| 04:19.03 | sjansen | Maquis: just the stub |
| 04:19.07 | Maquis | oh :( |
| 04:19.07 | goozbach | I don't need no stinkin pay stub |
| 04:19.18 | goozbach | direct deposit baby |
| 04:19.24 | goozbach | I |
| 04:19.33 | goozbach | 'll give you the stub |
| 04:19.50 | Maquis | that'll probably just make me jealous |
| 04:20.16 | sjansen | no, asking him what he ate this week will make you jealous |
| 04:21.10 | goozbach | sjansen: applebees' a decent steakhouse steak, BBQ from a pit bbq place and wendy's |
| 04:21.17 | Maquis | umm... what could be better than lots of money? |
| 04:21.28 | goozbach | it really wasn't all that great this week |
| 04:21.29 | Maquis | applebees.... mmmm.... |
| 04:21.34 | sjansen | Maquis: we don't make lots of money |
| 04:21.41 | Maquis | more than me! |
| 04:21.46 | goozbach | I was an hour from Twin Cities |
| 04:21.54 | goozbach | so I didn't get my onion bread |
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| 04:30.26 | Maquis | if a folder is chmodded to 755, and all the directories to that point at 755, it shouldn't be given a "forbidden" error, right? |
| 04:31.38 | sjansen | apache? |
| 04:31.42 | Maquis | yup |
| 04:31.46 | Maquis | apache2 |
| 04:32.04 | sjansen | You need a <Directory> Order allow, deny Allow from all |
| 04:32.11 | goozbach | it might not be a dir permission error |
| 04:32.27 | goozbach | check your <directory> like sjansen said |
| 04:33.23 | Maquis | hmmm... i don't appear to have any <Directory> things in /etc/apache2/conf/apache2.conf |
| 04:33.30 | Maquis | is that the right place? |
| 04:33.41 | sjansen | somewhere around there |
| 04:33.49 | sjansen | although apache2.conf is strange name |
| 04:33.50 | Maquis | (i was just trying to put it under /var/www/localhost/htdocs/ |
| 04:33.55 | sjansen | usually it's httpd.conf |
| 04:34.08 | Maquis | sjansen: i don't have an httpd.conf |
| 04:34.17 | sjansen | how... odd |
| 04:34.19 | Maquis | i never have |
| 04:34.48 | Maquis | when svn said to put their thing in the httpd.conf, i stuck it in this file, and it worked great... i'm not sure if it's distro-specific, or if it's a newer version of apache, or what |
| 04:34.56 | sjansen | I think case, I can't make a very knowledgeable suggestion. |
| 04:35.07 | sjansen | distro specific |
| 04:35.40 | Maquis | so, would it be a <Location> or a <Directory>? |
| 04:35.45 | Maquis | (svn is a <location> |
| 04:35.46 | Maquis | ) |
| 04:35.57 | sjansen | depends on the error your getting |
| 04:36.03 | sjansen | check the error.log |
| 04:36.22 | sjansen | Sorry, but there's no easier answer than: you have to grok your apache conf. |
| 04:36.46 | sjansen | It could even be a Files that is blocking it, but chances are it's a Directory. |
| 04:36.49 | Maquis | symbolic link not allowed? |
| 04:36.59 | Maquis | why aren't they allowed??? |
| 04:37.01 | sjansen | depends on the apache conf |
| 04:37.16 | sjansen | FollowSymLinks is the setting name (IIRC) |
| 04:37.32 | sjansen | It varies by directory and distro. |
| 04:37.43 | Maquis | ok... |
| 04:37.45 | Maquis | well, thanks :) |
| 04:37.53 | sjansen | (symlink following isn't always a good idea, think cgi-bin) |
| 04:39.08 | Maquis | sjansen: can you expoud a bit? i don't understand why symlinks would be bad |
| 04:39.42 | LeviHome | A symlink can point to places outside your http root. |
| 04:40.00 | Maquis | LeviHome: yes, that's what i'm using it for... |
| 04:41.15 | goozbach | Maquis: that file is the correct location for gentoo |
| 04:41.21 | sjansen | In the case of cgi's, it could be something you don't want run. |
| 04:41.30 | Maquis | goozbach: ok... thakns :) |
| 04:41.31 | sjansen | There's other attacks too, but I don't remember them now. |
| 04:41.36 | Maquis | sjansen: ok... |
| 04:41.43 | goozbach | and just be aware and take care to protect the dir you symlink to |
| 04:42.26 | goozbach | probally easier/safer to use an alias or a vhost with a different documentroot directive |
| 04:43.02 | goozbach | this time remembering his pants |
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| 05:06.07 | tene | got a problem installing ubuntu here... |
| 05:19.18 | tene | grr... |
| 05:19.23 | sjansen | Do you have an AddHandler? |
| 05:19.28 | tene | it's freaking out about install the "locales" package |
| 05:19.33 | tene | because it can't load locales |
| 05:19.46 | tene | which, I'm guessing, is because they aren't installed |
| 05:20.20 | Maquis | sjansen: ??? |
| 05:21.07 | sjansen | I've never done PHP on gentoo, but _somewhere_ in your apache configuration you've gotta have a LoadModule and AddHandler statement. |
| 05:21.13 | Maquis | ok... |
| 05:21.19 | Maquis | i'll figure those out then :) |
| 05:21.26 | Maquis | grrr |
| 05:21.47 | tene | sjansen: any ideas? |
| 05:21.50 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 05:21.54 | sjansen | tene: nope |
| 05:21.58 | Maquis | oh... right |
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| 05:22.16 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 05:22.18 | goozbach | Maquis: something like this: |
| 05:22.20 | goozbach | LoadModule php4_module modules/libphp4.so |
| 05:22.31 | goozbach | DirectoryIndex index.php |
| 05:22.33 | *** part/#utah spig (~spig_@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:22.49 | goozbach | AddType application/x-httpd-php .php |
| 05:23.21 | goozbach | those three lines in your apache config should do php for ya |
| 05:23.38 | sjansen | oh, yeah, AddType not AddHandler |
| 05:23.44 | goozbach | considering that the mod_php is compiled and installed correctly |
| 05:24.26 | Maquis | goozbach: i'm pretty sure it's installed correctly... |
| 05:27.30 | sjansen | Bricolage sure isn't designed for virtual hosting. |
| 05:27.43 | Maquis | goozbach: didn't work after an apache restart, so i'm trying reinstalling mod_php to see if maybe that'll get things working... |
| 05:28.24 | goozbach | sjansen: hardcoded ip address stuff? |
| 05:28.43 | sjansen | No, just a stinking lot of setup. |
| 05:30.00 | goozbach | now THIS is a good dinner |
| 05:30.15 | goozbach | jam sandwiches dunked in milk |
| 05:30.17 | goozbach | mmmmmm |
| 05:30.45 | Maquis | :) |
| 05:30.49 | goozbach | I went out for food and went to the grocery store and bought groceries. |
| 05:31.06 | goozbach | instead of hitting the drive-through |
| 05:31.11 | Maquis | that is impressive! |
| 05:31.50 | sjansen | groceries? are those like cold take out? |
| 05:32.48 | goozbach | sjansen: they are what your mom uses to make dinner |
| 05:33.12 | goozbach | the big collection of plastic bags that fills up the entire trunk of your car... |
| 05:35.13 | Maquis | goozbach: i still don't have anything that looks like mod_php4.so in /usr/lib/apache2/modules |
| 05:35.22 | goozbach | hmm |
| 05:35.26 | goozbach | no idea then |
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| 05:35.41 | *** part/#utah spig (~spig_@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:39.18 | mheath | emcnabb: you around? |
| 05:41.05 | goozbach | so I was walking around best buy last night... |
| 05:41.16 | goozbach | I meandered into the dvd section |
| 05:41.45 | goozbach | I decided to pull out my treo and make a list of all the dvds I want to purchace |
| 05:42.13 | goozbach | I ended up with a list that's 52 long |
| 05:42.36 | mheath | Our school just got a grant from best buy :) |
| 05:43.01 | mheath | Well, one teacher at our school |
| 05:44.01 | mheath | He teaches Computer Programming, Yearbook, and Desktop publishing so he's been getting stuff for both |
| 05:44.05 | mheath | Er, for all |
| 05:47.25 | Maquis | gnight goo |
| 05:51.40 | mheath | emcnabb: if your up to giving Hurd another try, I was discussing some things with the developers and I think I know the problem |
| 05:53.54 | emcnabb | what's that? |
| 05:54.55 | mheath | emcnabb: depending on what exact size of partition you made, mke2fs's automaticly-determine-the-block-size-to-use stuff might have chosen some values Hurd didn't like |
| 05:55.15 | mheath | I was told to recommend to you that you format with mke2fs -b 4096 -o hurd |
| 05:55.37 | mheath | And to *make sure* that, when booting mach, you specify -s so it goes into single user mode (required for the install)( |
| 05:56.32 | emcnabb | I did do the -b 4096 |
| 05:56.38 | emcnabb | and I think I'm doing -s too |
| 05:56.58 | Maquis | |lart stupid "how-to"s that don't work!!! |
| 05:57.06 | Maquis | |lart stupid "how-to"s that don't work!!! |
| 05:57.19 | mheath | emcnabb: hold, please ;) |
| 05:57.25 | emcnabb | ok :-) |
| 05:58.08 | Maquis | apache2 hates me :( |
| 05:58.20 | mheath | emcnabb: how big is the HDD? |
| 05:58.25 | mheath | (not the partition) |
| 05:58.30 | emcnabb | hum |
| 05:58.39 | emcnabb | let me see |
| 05:59.15 | emcnabb | about 80GB |
| 05:59.35 | emcnabb | and it's on a partition a ways in |
| 06:00.44 | sjansen | emcnabb: maybe you need to find some decade old hardware to go with that decade old attempt at an OS |
| 06:01.50 | mheath | sjansen: Me and hundreds of other people have used this and not experieced this software |
| 06:01.54 | mheath | er |
| 06:01.55 | mheath | This error |
| 06:02.18 | mheath | Which means either 1) He's doing something wrong, or 2) He's the first one to discover a bug |
| 06:02.41 | mheath | If your holding out for perfect, bug free code, I'm afraid you'll be disappointed. |
| 06:02.50 | mheath | Its kind of hard to fix a bug no ones ever experienced. |
| 06:03.35 | mheath | emcnabb: you still have your grub config file setup for it? |
| 06:04.42 | mheath | I need to double check the info in it |
| 06:10.38 | emcnabb | ok, let me get it |
| 06:10.47 | emcnabb | (the grub file) |
| 06:11.45 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 06:12.13 | findlay | mheath: why is GNU/Hurd switching to L4? |
| 06:12.29 | mheath | findlay: because L4 is Much, Much, MUCH faster than Mach.... |
| 06:12.46 | mheath | And in Mach, all the hardware drivers had to [mostly] be within the microkernel |
| 06:12.51 | mheath | In L4, they can be userland |
| 06:13.11 | emcnabb | title Hurd |
| 06:13.11 | emcnabb | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:13.11 | emcnabb | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:13.11 | emcnabb | --host-priv-port=${host-port} --device-master-port=${device-port} --exec-server-task=${exe |
| 06:13.11 | emcnabb | c-task} -T typed ${root} $(task-create) $(task-resume) |
| 06:13.12 | emcnabb | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:13.15 | emcnabb | there it is |
| 06:13.37 | sjansen | emcnabb: paste.lisp.org next time |
| 06:14.03 | findlay | emcnabb: cool |
| 06:14.12 | findlay | oh |
| 06:14.19 | emcnabb | http://paste.lisp.org/display/5547 |
| 06:14.42 | emcnabb | sjansen, I still haven't caught up to your crapflooding abilities :-) |
| 06:15.00 | findlay | I thought you were boasting your running Hurd kernel |
| 06:15.02 | sjansen | emcnabb: I could train you. |
| 06:15.09 | emcnabb | sjansen, no thanks |
| 06:15.18 | emcnabb | findlay, I'm working on it right now |
| 06:15.30 | emcnabb | it boots, but hangs before fully loading |
| 06:15.51 | emcnabb | mheath, most likely I'm making a mistake somewhere |
| 06:16.35 | mheath | Out of curiosity |
| 06:16.54 | mheath | Would any of you be interested if I was to set up another Hurd box and give you SSH access? |
| 06:17.14 | emcnabb | sure, it would be cool to look around |
| 06:17.22 | emcnabb | the machine I'm doing it on is pretty new |
| 06:17.38 | emcnabb | hyperthreading, etc |
| 06:17.49 | mheath | Shouldn't be an issue |
| 06:18.56 | emcnabb | this is on a FC3 box by the way |
| 06:19.24 | emcnabb | (that's what I used to create the partition, create the filesystem, etc) |
| 06:20.34 | sjansen | emcnabb: I vaguely recall some problems with Gentoo reading filesystems created by FC3. |
| 06:21.05 | sjansen | Seemed to be related to selinux. Think I had to use the Gentoo mke2fs instead. |
| 06:22.05 | sjansen | Although I could be confusing details... yeah I am. It was fsck that had problems. |
| 06:22.24 | sjansen | Gentoo fsck couldn't check FC3 ext3. |
| 06:22.46 | sjansen | Because of the FC3 selinux extended attributes. |
| 06:22.50 | Newsome | the FC3 mkfs.ext3 creates with an extra field |
| 06:23.30 | Newsome | I ran into that problem when creating a UML filesystem |
| 06:24.18 | emcnabb | for extended attributes? |
| 06:25.09 | mheath | emcnabb: its not an issue with the filesystem |
| 06:25.16 | mheath | I'm heading to sleep, I'lll help you tomorrow |
| 06:25.22 | emcnabb | ok, that's cool |
| 06:25.33 | emcnabb | I'll be gone a lot of tomorrow afternoon / evening |
| 06:25.36 | emcnabb | thanks for the help |
| 06:25.39 | emcnabb | it's fun to try new things |
| 06:26.04 | mheath | I hope you all believe me that this *Does* work for most people :) |
| 06:26.16 | mheath | Kind of bad, the first one of you that tries it yourself has problems |
| 06:26.18 | mheath | 'night |
| 06:26.18 | sjansen | for certain definitions of most |
| 06:26.38 | emcnabb | maybe I'll try it on a different box tomorrow |
| 06:28.18 | Newsome | emcnabb, the FC3 mkfs.ext3 creates filesystems with the resize_inode flag, which older versions of fsck.ext3 don't understand |
| 06:28.56 | emcnabb | interesting |
| 06:29.22 | Newsome | dumpe2fs /dev/hda1|grep features |
| 06:33.56 | emcnabb | yup; it's set on this FC3 box but not on my laptop (Gentoo) |
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| 06:37.52 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@70-58-42-135.slkc.qwest.net) |
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| 07:12.47 | findlay | Phil feels licky, Huh? |
| 07:12.52 | findlay | lucky |
| 07:13.04 | findlay | ~lart Maquis |
| 07:15.12 | sjansen | bah, bricolage does have quite as strong fences as I'd hoped |
| 07:16.52 | tene | so... I'm going to be in Provo on Monday. |
| 07:16.58 | tene | anyone want some hardware? |
| 07:17.20 | sjansen | I want a HUD. |
| 07:18.42 | tene | NIC, power supply, case, mobo? |
| 07:19.16 | findlay | SIP phone? |
| 07:20.35 | tene | if I had one, I wouldn't be giving it away. |
| 07:20.42 | findlay | *: |
| 07:20.46 | findlay | (: |
| 07:27.55 | sjansen | In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, practice and theory are not. |
| 07:37.15 | Maquis | sjansen: good quote! |
| 07:44.25 | Newsome | one of my favorites |
| 07:44.59 | sjansen | but an unfortunate reality for the plug server |
| 07:45.30 | Newsome | not going well? |
| 07:45.48 | sjansen | the nirvana I was promised is rapidly receeding |
| 07:46.26 | Newsome | that's not good |
| 07:49.28 | sjansen | ah well, time to go home |
| 07:50.25 | Maquis | heading home from work that late... |
| 07:50.29 | Maquis | with a commute... |
| 07:57.42 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 08:19.33 | xbmodder | ouch |
| 09:01.58 | *** join/#utah ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 09:01.58 | *** mode/#utah [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 09:28.24 | findlay | ha |
| 09:54.46 | xbmodder | hey |
| 13:44.57 | hans | gooood morning |
| 14:43.38 | *** join/#utah sjansen-treo (~upirc@001-782-448.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 14:44.21 | sjansen-treo | last night I dreamt I was in a car accident |
| 14:44.43 | sjansen-treo | so I setup an ldap server to track parts |
| 14:45.07 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@209.197.11.63) |
| 14:45.18 | sjansen-treo | then I woke up and discovered I'd received a phone bill |
| 14:45.55 | sjansen-treo | I was so happy about not being in an accident I didn't care about the bill |
| 14:46.40 | sjansen-treo | then I woke up and discovered I'd dreamed the accideny AND the bill |
| 14:46.49 | sjansen-treo | I was even happier |
| 14:50.27 | sjansen-treo | anywho |
| 15:29.43 | hans | I have a toll-free number now |
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| 15:45.23 | *** join/#utah bonez41 (~aint@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 15:47.57 | Mecworks | I do not |
| 15:49.01 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
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| 15:55.14 | bonez41 | I had mozilla-firefox working just grea.t.then my system froze..and had to power down..and since then, firefox won't run....it says it's looking for version > 5 but finds version 4...I think I have dependency trouble...how to proceed? |
| 15:55.16 | bonez41 | ideas? |
| 15:55.36 | Mecworks | none here... |
| 15:59.24 | Newsome | bonez41: as a test, maybe try running firefox without any user config to see if it's a user or system problem |
| 16:00.09 | Newsome | like 'mv .mozilla .mozilla-bak' |
| 16:02.28 | bonez41 | oh, that's in my home/user folder, right? |
| 16:03.42 | bonez41 | I don't even have any .mozilla-firefox config file..that's been purged too... |
| 16:09.03 | bonez41 | Newsome: ok, I reinstalled with apt-get and it runs from console... |
| 16:09.19 | bonez41 | says "loading the extensions datasource" |
| 16:09.50 | bonez41 | how do I protect this from getting hosed in the future? back up the .mozilla-firefox folder, for starters? |
| 16:14.00 | Newsome | not sure. I don't think I've had that sort of problem |
| 16:16.22 | bonez41 | ok...never a crash ? |
| 16:18.59 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 16:23.58 | Newsome | oh, firefox crashes all the time...I just don't remember it getting so hosed before |
| 16:26.31 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:31.56 | *** part/#utah spig (~spig_@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:47.12 | emcnabb | I can't remember when I had Firefox crash on me last |
| 16:47.36 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@dhcp176.openinternet.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:59.53 | sjansen | http://nermal.org/gallery/?aid=17 |
| 16:59.54 | sjansen | in |
| 16:59.56 | sjansen | sane |
| 17:06.41 | emcnabb | awe |
| 17:06.42 | emcnabb | some |
| 17:06.52 | mheath | emcnabb: I'm going to get a Hurd box setup and running SSH later today |
| 17:06.59 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@firebat.aros.net) |
| 17:07.01 | mheath | A Debian GNU/Hurd box, that is |
| 17:09.49 | sjansen | Don't you mean a Debian GNU/BSD/X11/Joe's Crab Shack Hurd box? |
| 17:10.20 | sjansen | Or are you really planning on only putting GNU software on it? |
| 17:11.12 | emcnabb | mheath, I was planning on giving it another shot, this time on my home box |
| 17:11.27 | emcnabb | I'm going to be taking off in the early afternoon, so I may need to mess with it tomorrow |
| 17:11.30 | mheath | sjansen: all the core components, software, tools, etc. are GNU |
| 17:11.44 | mheath | emcnabb: ah. |
| 17:12.18 | sjansen | mheath: so? |
| 17:12.18 | mheath | sjansen: GNU stuff is required for it's operation/usefulness. It is part of the OS. The other things you mentioned are not. |
| 17:12.41 | sjansen | Oh, so that SSH you're planning on put on isn't vital? I thought that was the whole point. |
| 17:13.09 | mheath | It's not part of the operating system. |
| 17:13.33 | sjansen | Neither are most of the GNU utils. |
| 17:13.59 | sjansen | And in fact, on a Linux box, glibc C (which in my opinion is a pretty vital part of the OS) also isn't GNU. |
| 17:14.01 | mheath | sjansen: could you explain to me how you could have a functioning Hurd+Mach system without GNU Coreutils? |
| 17:14.03 | sjansen | Don't know about Hurd. |
| 17:14.27 | sjansen | Should we be calling it a GNU/glibc/Linux? |
| 17:14.34 | sjansen | And what about libc5? |
| 17:14.42 | mheath | GNU Lib C is part of the GNU project. |
| 17:14.51 | sjansen | mheath: Can you explain to me why Hurd isn't good enough? |
| 17:15.07 | sjansen | Unless it has changed recently, glibc isn't. And that annoyed Stallman greatly. |
| 17:15.30 | sjansen | But the glibc maintainer refused to make sign over to the FSF because Stallman was making such a prick of himself. |
| 17:15.48 | mheath | sjansen: because calling GNU "Hurd" is comparable to calling Linux "ReiserFS+Multitasker" |
| 17:15.50 | sjansen | Nobody expects you to by running BSD on Hurd. |
| 17:16.41 | sjansen | mheath: Whatever. It's pointless arguing. If you want to make yourself look anal by arguing a pedantic detail, be my guest. |
| 17:16.49 | sjansen | But it'll make people take you less seriously. |
| 17:17.11 | mheath | http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/libc.html |
| 17:17.15 | mheath | Excuse me? |
| 17:17.18 | mheath | Who started the argument? |
| 17:17.34 | mheath | <sjansen> Don't you mean a Debian GNU/BSD/X11/Joe's Crab Shack Hurd box? |
| 17:18.06 | mheath | sjansen: LIbc was coded by Rolan McGrath, a *friend* of Stallman, and a major supporter of Free Software |
| 17:18.21 | mheath | It's been part of the GNU project for almost 2 decades, I believe |
| 17:18.31 | mheath | *Roland |
| 17:19.05 | sjansen | I'm obviously going to have to go back and find the right library, but the generals of the point I was making are still true. |
| 17:19.31 | goozbach | morning |
| 17:19.38 | mheath | Well, yes, if you say "<A library that isn't part of GNU> isn't part of GNU" its a true statement |
| 17:19.45 | emcnabb | how was the trip goozbach |
| 17:19.51 | goozbach | alright |
| 17:19.59 | goozbach | a little spur of the moment |
| 17:20.01 | goozbach | but fun |
| 17:20.05 | emcnabb | cool |
| 17:20.23 | mheath | Hahaha. |
| 17:21.33 | goozbach | Maquis: that's what saturday is for |
| 17:21.39 | Maquis | mheath: question: if you want to use GNU, are you locked into only using the GNU filesystems, etc? or is there a similar amount of flexibility to switch things around as linux has? |
| 17:21.39 | goozbach | I just woke up |
| 17:21.56 | mheath | Maquis: right now, it just supports ext2fs |
| 17:21.59 | Maquis | goozbach: yeah, but i have an awful lot of things that need to get done |
| 17:22.08 | goozbach | me too |
| 17:22.19 | mheath | But, with GNU, all the filesystem drivers are userland |
| 17:22.24 | Maquis | mheath: what about things besides filesystems? |
| 17:22.26 | mheath | So you can code your own FS translator |
| 17:22.29 | goozbach | laundry, ... and that one thing and the otherone |
| 17:22.37 | mheath | Maquis: like what? |
| 17:22.46 | Maquis | i don't know... |
| 17:23.21 | Maquis | goozbach: i have a ton of homework... :( |
| 17:23.30 | mheath | Especially after this coming switch to l4..... |
| 17:23.42 | mheath | Everything in Hurd is modular |
| 17:23.54 | goozbach | wow! I just got a "message from jefri" |
| 17:23.58 | mheath | You can replace any component, any driver, any feature with whatever you want |
| 17:24.12 | Maquis | mheath: ok... |
| 17:24.16 | goozbach | jefri needs my help laundering money |
| 17:24.23 | goozbach | from nigeria |
| 17:24.35 | Maquis | hahaha |
| 17:24.42 | mheath | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:25.07 | goozbach | I want to take a large caliber rifle into nigeria and go 419 hunting |
| 17:25.07 | mheath | And easy to install any new feature, too |
| 17:25.40 | mheath | Say you wanted to install a new filesystem |
| 17:25.49 | mheath | Someday it will be as easy as, for example: |
| 17:26.29 | mheath | cd reiserfs; ./configure; make; make installl; settrans /mnt/point /hurd/reiserfs /dev/hd0s1 |
| 17:27.25 | mheath | No reboots, no hassle, no mess |
| 17:27.44 | *** join/#utah xbmodder (~xbmodder@adsl-67-119-13-192.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 17:30.50 | sjansen | Maquis: Just don't forget to end all of that with "in theory". |
| 17:31.22 | sjansen | mheath: I'm having no luck finding the original reference, but I do have a similar question? |
| 17:31.23 | xbmodder | Maquis, guess what? |
| 17:31.32 | Maquis | what? |
| 17:31.41 | mheath | sjansen: no, it should be ended with "though the previous commands don't really work since theres no reiserfs driver for Hurd yet" |
| 17:31.49 | sjansen | Should Gentoo be called Gentoo GNU/Python/Linux? |
| 17:32.11 | Maquis | i can testify to the fact that gentoo does not work without python! |
| 17:32.30 | sjansen | mheath: I was talking about the easy part. The Hurd sure isn't turning out to be easy. |
| 17:32.39 | mheath | sjansen: http://www.gnu.org/gnu/why-gnu-linux.html |
| 17:32.51 | sjansen | mheath: I've read it. And I used to be a zealot. |
| 17:33.02 | xbmodder | Maquis, someone asked me out :) and i said 'yes' |
| 17:33.10 | Maquis | xbmodder: cool |
| 17:33.18 | sjansen | Until I used Linux a little longer, saw some of the other philospohies, and met Stallman. |
| 17:33.23 | sjansen | He's a pric, by the way. |
| 17:33.25 | Newsome | Everyone knows "Why Gnu Linux," the real question is "Why Gnold Linux". |
| 17:33.30 | xbmodder | yeah... and she does not think i am crazy |
| 17:33.38 | xbmodder | sjansen, i am a pric? |
| 17:33.38 | Maquis | xbmodder: coo! |
| 17:33.43 | mheath | sjansen: yes, he is. |
| 17:33.56 | sjansen | xbmodder: When the girl doesn't think you're crazy, that's always a positive. ;-) |
| 17:34.00 | xbmodder | hahaha |
| 17:34.02 | xbmodder | i hope |
| 17:34.04 | sjansen | xbmodder: No, Stallman is. |
| 17:34.18 | mheath | sjansen: let me ask you a question.... |
| 17:34.32 | sjansen | mheath: Basically, it comes down to marketing? Why id IHOP change it's name? |
| 17:34.33 | mheath | Why was AT&T Unix called "Unix" rather than "AT&T Unix Kernel" |
| 17:34.50 | sjansen | Nobody called it Internatial House of Pancakes, IHOP was easier to market. |
| 17:35.09 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@c-67-161-219-228.client.comcast.net) |
| 17:35.22 | mheath | sjansen: answer my question :) |
| 17:35.24 | xbmodder | sjansen, thats good |
| 17:35.54 | xbmodder | i am so happy |
| 17:35.55 | sjansen | mheath: I'm not sure what you're getting at. And if you planning on using Unix as a reference point you're going to have a hard time. |
| 17:36.00 | xbmodder | i wanna celebrate |
| 17:36.01 | xbmodder | :) |
| 17:36.07 | sjansen | The name has a very messy history. |
| 17:36.59 | mheath | sjansen: let me explain it to you this way... |
| 17:37.13 | sjansen | Unix was called Unix to contrast it with Multics. A failed project because it tried to over extend itself. |
| 17:37.19 | mheath | When Linux came around, most distros took the GNU OS, sliced off Hurd, and stuck everything else onto the Linux kernel |
| 17:37.46 | sjansen | Sliced off Hurd? There' wasn't much of a Hurd at the time. |
| 17:37.59 | sjansen | If there had been, there wouldn't have been a Linux. |
| 17:38.09 | mheath | Theres nothing wrong with this, but your essentially arguing that the GNU OS deserves no recognition for providing the core utilities required for most linux distrobutions |
| 17:38.55 | sjansen | I didn't say it deserves no recognition. I have alot of respect for Stallman, the FSF, and the Gnu project. |
| 17:39.06 | mheath | It's not like they just wget'd coreutils and ran make, make install on it |
| 17:39.36 | mheath | Every linux distro in existance (except for a couple that are BusyBox based) run most of the GNU OS |
| 17:39.40 | sjansen | I'm saying that calling it GNU/Linux is stupid. As is calling it GNU/Hurd. |
| 17:40.15 | sjansen | As far as I'm concerned a *nix box is useless without SSH. |
| 17:40.20 | mheath | So? |
| 17:40.32 | sjansen | Some of the GNU code was based on BSD and relicensed. |
| 17:40.32 | xbmodder | that last slashdot story is scary |
| 17:40.34 | mheath | You can't even boot without GNU tools. |
| 17:40.40 | sjansen | So why doesn't BSD deserve more recognition? |
| 17:40.49 | mheath | sjansen: what code? |
| 17:40.55 | sjansen | mheath: And Gentoo can't even boot without Python. |
| 17:41.14 | mheath | sjansen: yes, it can. It complains, but it can |
| 17:43.22 | sjansen | Let's go back to how this all started. |
| 17:43.32 | sjansen | Yes, I took a pot shot at you this morning. |
| 17:44.02 | sjansen | But it started yesterday when you asked emcnabb to clarify if he meant Debian GNU/Hurd when he sent Hurd. |
| 17:44.27 | sjansen | s/sent/said/ |
| 17:44.35 | mheath | sjansen: yes. Hurd is a program. Debian GNU/Hurd is a software distrobution. |
| 17:44.38 | sjansen | It was a stupid, anal question. |
| 17:44.40 | mheath | GNU is an operating system. |
| 17:44.44 | mheath | I wasn't sure what he was talking about |
| 17:44.51 | mheath | It was a matter of clarification |
| 17:45.16 | sjansen | It was perfectly understandable to those of us willing to use short cuts. |
| 17:45.41 | mheath | sjansen: no...He was mentioning some bad things he thought about "Hurd" |
| 17:45.45 | sjansen | How often is someone going to talk about Linux and not be talking about the gestalt? |
| 17:45.48 | mheath | Some of the things he mentioned are problems with Debian GNU/Hurd |
| 17:46.09 | mheath | I asked for clarrification so I could better explain to him whats actually causing those problems |
| 17:46.16 | sjansen | We're going in circles. |
| 17:47.25 | mheath | IE, "Thats not a problem with Hurd, it's a problem with Debian GNU/Hurd" versus "Yes, Debian GNU/Hurd has that problem" |
| 17:47.57 | goozbach | hand me that torch so that |
| 17:48.13 | goozbach | I might go look in the potatoe cellar |
| 17:48.46 | *** join/#utah jsmith (~jsmith@smithfam.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 17:51.55 | bonez41 | if my debian system crashed and hosed my mozilla-firefox which was apt-got....will installing firefox without apt-get cause it to work.....where perhaps apt-get won't until I figure out where things are broken? |
| 17:52.15 | sjansen | bonez41: broke again, did it? |
| 17:52.17 | bonez41 | is there any advantage to installing it without apt-get? to get around such problems? |
| 17:52.52 | bonez41 | sjansen, well, I broke it yesterday....watched a movie and it took over my system and had to reboot, ....cold boot..and when it came back..no work for the firefox.. |
| 17:53.11 | sjansen | bonez41: You can install it into another location and it might work. |
| 17:53.27 | sjansen | I wouldn't recommend installing it on top of the existing install. |
| 17:53.40 | bonez41 | but if I use apt-get the installation location is just set...I will apt-get remove it..and then install it manually... |
| 17:53.42 | goozbach | apt-get remove then apt-get install doesn't fix it? |
| 17:54.00 | goozbach | that should re-initilize it |
| 17:54.02 | bonez41 | goozbach: no, it still won't function, just launched..has to be launched from console... |
| 17:54.06 | sjansen | bonez41: If it lets you do that, you should be fine. |
| 17:54.34 | sjansen | Some of the Mozilla libraries are needed by other applications, but I don't know how Debian handles the packaging of those libraries. |
| 17:54.35 | goozbach | bonez41: sounds like it's more than likely your settings that have been hosed |
| 17:54.42 | bonez41 | I just don't understand why it runs from console, from a terminal, but not if I just get a prompt with Alt-F2 and launch.. |
| 17:54.57 | sjansen | bonez41: Oh, so it will work from console but not from the icon? |
| 17:55.13 | sjansen | bonez41: Do other programs have problems launching? |
| 17:55.13 | bonez41 | but...there is no .mozilla-firefox settings file in $HOME...but there are those for firebird and thunderbird and just plan mozilla |
| 17:55.22 | bonez41 | no, it's the only one so far that has trouble.. |
| 17:55.35 | sjansen | firefox usually puts it's prefs nested in .mozilla |
| 17:55.54 | sjansen | So it's not a hostname change confusing X. |
| 17:56.13 | bonez41 | really, so if I mv .mozilla .mozilla.bak and retry it...maybe that would then work? |
| 17:56.25 | bonez41 | no hostname changes....at least none that I know about |
| 17:56.54 | sjansen | give it a try |
| 17:57.15 | bonez41 | ok.. |
| 17:58.45 | sjansen | Are you using Gnome or KDE? |
| 17:59.04 | bonez41 | gnome 2.2 |
| 17:59.20 | sjansen | did moving .mozilla work? |
| 18:00.10 | bonez41 | I just invoked it...takes a few seconds to load, if it will |
| 18:01.13 | sjansen | Okay, looks like it's probably not working. Try this: |
| 18:01.14 | bonez41 | hmm no start..now from terminal |
| 18:01.32 | goozbach | cool I was just looking at the link-0-the day on userfriendly |
| 18:01.36 | bonez41 | ready |
| 18:01.53 | goozbach | it was featuring really slick screensavers |
| 18:02.04 | bonez41 | sjansen: what's the next to try? |
| 18:02.04 | sjansen | <alt-f2>, 'firefox ; sleep 60', check "Run in terminal", then hit the run button |
| 18:02.39 | goozbach | I clicked the links page... and they had a link to GuruLabs and the rpm we created for RH9 |
| 18:02.56 | bonez41 | what does the : sleep 60 do? |
| 18:03.18 | sjansen | keeps the terminal window open even if firefox dies |
| 18:03.24 | bonez41 | sjansen: here's the output > INTERNAL ERROR on Browser End: Expected a version > 5! Version = 4 System error?:: No such file or directory |
| 18:03.49 | sjansen | Weren't you getting that in the terminal earlier? |
| 18:04.38 | bonez41 | yeah...same error |
| 18:05.00 | sjansen | And now it has gone away in the terminal, but not in the run dialog ... |
| 18:05.10 | bonez41 | so i am thinking of just apt-get removing it..and installing from source...or tarball |
| 18:05.26 | sjansen | Might not solve the problem. |
| 18:05.37 | *** part/#utah jsmith (~jsmith@smithfam.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 18:05.39 | bonez41 | hmmm I am grateful for your helping through this |
| 18:05.41 | sjansen | Have you logged out and back in since it started working in the terminal? |
| 18:06.08 | sjansen | I starting to think maybe a path problem... or environment. |
| 18:06.10 | bonez41 | no....havne't logged out since then... |
| 18:06.32 | sjansen | There's two possibilities, but of which boil down to environment problems. |
| 18:07.03 | sjansen | Unfortunately, the easiest way to change your X session environment variables is to log out and back in. |
| 18:08.17 | sjansen | Could be $PATH is pointing a bad firefox script, or it could be that Debian is using one of the $MOZILLA* variables and the rc file that sets it got refreshed when you did a re-install. |
| 18:09.06 | bonez41 | so I'll just log out and back in...don't need reboot,r ight? just relog in? |
| 18:09.22 | sjansen | correct |
| 18:09.33 | sjansen | I think. |
| 18:09.35 | bonez41 | back in a few |
| 18:09.47 | sjansen | Depending on how Debian handles their X session startup... |
| 18:10.03 | bonez41 | ok... |
| 18:14.43 | sjansen | hmmmm, sure it taking bonez41 a long time to return |
| 18:15.04 | sjansen | wonder if his system was really horked |
| 18:17.16 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~Bob@216.126.221.115) |
| 18:18.03 | SpecialK | |lart Maquis |
| 18:18.23 | emcnabb | haha |
| 18:18.27 | emcnabb | ~lart SpecialK |
| 18:18.30 | Maquis | |lart SpecialK |
| 18:18.58 | *** join/#utah brigham (~brigham@128.187.244.16) |
| 18:19.01 | Maquis | |lart SpecialK |
| 18:21.08 | SpecialK | ~lart emcnabb |
| 18:21.13 | SpecialK | ~shoot Maquis |
| 18:21.15 | ibot | ACTION shoots Maquis in the head with a spitwad! |
| 18:21.53 | xbmodder | ~praise xbmodder |
| 18:21.55 | ibot | All hail xbmodder! |
| 18:22.25 | xbmodder | yeah |
| 18:24.01 | Maquis | ~lart brigham for constantly disconnecting |
| 18:24.34 | Maquis | |lart emcnabb for fun |
| 18:24.53 | goozbach | laundry is so boring |
| 18:24.54 | xbmodder | |megalart Maquis for larting emcnabb |
| 18:24.57 | xbmodder | ~megalart Maquis for larting emcnabb |
| 18:25.00 | xbmodder | ~lart Maquis for larting emcnabb |
| 18:25.23 | goozbach | ~lart xbmodder for larting Maquis |
| 18:26.39 | sjansen | ~fish goozbach |
| 18:26.41 | ibot | ACTION slaps goozbach around with a large trout |
| 18:26.55 | sjansen | There's a taste of your own medicine, fiend! |
| 18:27.11 | emcnabb | sjansen, get back to work |
| 18:28.11 | Maquis | emcnabb: stop being a party-pooper! |
| 18:28.34 | goozbach | sjansen: what are you doing at the office on a saturday? |
| 18:28.42 | SpecialK | ~fish emcnabb |
| 18:28.44 | ibot | ACTION slaps emcnabb around with a large trout |
| 18:28.44 | goozbach | freakin weirdo |
| 18:28.58 | sjansen | well... I was planning on working on ldap some more, but instead I'm playing with the Plug site |
| 18:29.15 | Maquis | sjansen: that's why you're so behind on ldap |
| 18:29.16 | Maquis | ! |
| 18:29.19 | goozbach | how long ya gonna be there? |
| 18:29.31 | sjansen | don't know |
| 18:29.33 | goozbach | I need to come drop off my recptis |
| 18:29.36 | emcnabb | I'm no longer wanted in the state of New Jersey! |
| 18:29.44 | Maquis | sjansen: is ldap hard? |
| 18:29.50 | goozbach | and maybe I'm up for a game of scorched3d |
| 18:29.51 | sjansen | ldap is big |
| 18:30.07 | Maquis | sjansen: is it worth learning? |
| 18:30.22 | sjansen | Depending on one's needs, yes. |
| 18:30.32 | Maquis | hmmmm... |
| 18:30.39 | Maquis | what would one's needs need to be? |
| 18:31.20 | emcnabb | Maquis, it is a good thing to know; knowing LDAP well opens up a lot of opportunities (since most organizations use some form of it) |
| 18:31.22 | sjansen | A fast, centralized mostly read information source over a commonly used protocol. |
| 18:31.32 | Maquis | mmmk |
| 18:32.02 | sjansen | It's biggest use is a centralized user store. |
| 18:32.05 | Maquis | (i'm guessing perl is more important to learn than ldap?) :) |
| 18:32.12 | sjansen | yeah, it is |
| 18:32.16 | Maquis | yeah |
| 18:32.44 | Maquis | the job i'm interviewing for is looking for someone with php/perl experience (along with a lot of other things)... |
| 18:33.56 | goozbach | ~praise perl |
| 18:33.58 | ibot | All hail perl! |
| 18:34.17 | Maquis | :) |
| 18:35.48 | goozbach | fozz, the powerlurker |
| 18:35.56 | fozz | Jayce has been talking to me about doing something like an all-day Perl workshop on a Saturday. |
| 18:36.03 | fozz | For PLUG. |
| 18:36.06 | Maquis | fozz: beginning level? |
| 18:36.10 | goozbach | methinks that the word to summon fozz is 'perl' |
| 18:36.12 | fozz | Yeah. |
| 18:36.23 | goozbach | he keeps poping up when somebody says perl |
| 18:36.29 | fozz | heh heh. |
| 18:36.35 | Maquis | hmmm... if you do, i might actually make it to something plug-ish |
| 18:36.47 | sjansen | Oo! I have a name for it: "Perl 'til you drop." |
| 18:37.28 | sjansen | Oo! I have a name for it: "Perl-a-thon 2005." |
| 18:37.39 | fozz | Or "Perl 'til you upchuck." |
| 18:37.43 | Maquis | i like the second-name better... |
| 18:38.08 | sjansen | Oo! I have a name for it: "Perl: The first one's free." |
| 18:38.16 | Maquis | haha |
| 18:38.40 | xbmodder | PERLs are cute |
| 18:39.32 | xbmodder | ooo |
| 18:39.43 | xbmodder | i have heard there really hard and tiring |
| 18:39.48 | xbmodder | like a waste of a day |
| 18:39.56 | xbmodder | you mean move between dorms right? |
| 18:40.24 | Maquis | fozz said he's going to get a move on... |
| 18:40.52 | sjansen | but what he really meant was the bath water was getting cold, so he needed to draw a new bath |
| 18:41.06 | xbmodder | hahaha |
| 18:41.15 | fozz | Not to be confused with a moveon.org. |
| 18:41.22 | goozbach | heh |
| 18:41.24 | sjansen | although I still don't know how hanging up a picture of a tub ever made anyone cleaner |
| 18:41.57 | goozbach | sjansen: it tends to do the oppisite to me.. ink everywhere... not to mention the paint... |
| 18:42.24 | goozbach | this 3d desktop switcher is neato |
| 18:42.34 | xbmodder | sjansen, it does i think. because your body thinks its being cleansed so it helps |
| 18:43.49 | sjansen | So while your body reaks so offensively that no one can stand to be near you, the meditative state of drawing has brought such peace to your mind that it doesn't notice? |
| 18:48.21 | fozz | Personal experience? |
| 18:48.30 | xbmodder | fozz, sister |
| 18:48.35 | fozz | heh heh. |
| 18:50.00 | tene | So... I'm coming down to Provo on Monday, anyone want any hardware? |
| 18:50.19 | xbmodder | tene, what kinda hardware? |
| 18:50.38 | tene | xbm: the same stuff I've been trying to pawn off for quite a while. |
| 18:50.39 | xbmodder | tene, where do you work? |
| 18:50.43 | xbmodder | hahaha |
| 18:50.50 | tene | xbm: I'm unemployed at the moment. |
| 18:50.57 | xbmodder | that sucks... |
| 18:51.12 | xbmodder | btw: type xbm[tab] and your IRC client should expand my name |
| 18:51.17 | sjansen | that's what happens when you have a machine named slacker |
| 18:51.39 | Maquis | tene: cat5? |
| 18:51.49 | Maquis | rj45? |
| 18:52.35 | tene | yes, it will expand your name, xbmodder, I know that. |
| 18:52.41 | tene | Maquis: how much? |
| 18:52.53 | Maquis | how much do you have? |
| 18:53.29 | tene | sjansen: my machine isn't named slacker, that's just the hostmask the person who roped me into helping with his linux distro chose for me when he got hostmasks assigned for everyone that's helping. |
| 18:53.35 | tene | 'cause I don't do much. |
| 18:53.40 | tene | Maquis: how much do you want? |
| 18:54.06 | Maquis | tene: 100ft? 150ft? some? |
| 18:54.36 | tene | I don't think that I've got any single cable much over 150 |
| 18:54.41 | tene | lemme check |
| 18:55.58 | sjansen | that's alot of cable |
| 18:56.24 | Maquis | sjansen: i was thinking about making some ethernet cords, and undercutting the bookstore :) |
| 18:58.09 | tene | oh, in that case I've got a big spool of it here |
| 18:58.17 | tene | but it doesn't have length markings on it |
| 18:58.24 | tene | so I don't know how long it is |
| 18:58.48 | Maquis | hmmm.. |
| 18:59.02 | tene | I'll take a picture of it in just a bit. |
| 18:59.05 | Maquis | k |
| 19:01.12 | tene | this one's 86ft |
| 19:01.47 | tene | and looks to be the longest loose cable I've got |
| 19:05.34 | *** join/#utah Uncle_Je1se (~Uncle_Jes@66.173.148.4) |
| 19:06.55 | tene | hmm... don't want to hunt down batteries for my camera. |
| 19:07.03 | tene | let's just say that it's well over 100ft |
| 19:07.18 | tene | probably over 150 |
| 19:07.50 | sjansen | caveat Maquis |
| 19:08.46 | sjansen | I've heard the old "my camera doesn't have fresh batteries, I'd be glad if you'd pay me Tuesday for a hamburge I deliver someday" line before. ;-) |
| 19:09.08 | tene | hehe |
| 19:09.21 | tene | well |
| 19:10.02 | tene | it's not like I'll even accept anything right now. |
| 19:10.13 | tene | I'll just bring down my box of network cable |
| 19:16.35 | goozbach | RHEL-4 is now in release canidate stage |
| 19:16.40 | goozbach | w00t |
| 19:17.41 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 19:29.10 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 19:37.13 | *** join/#utah Mecworks (~marc@208.186.182.173) |
| 19:39.38 | *** join/#utah Uncle_Je1se (~Uncle_Jes@66.173.148.4) |
| 19:46.17 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@209.197.11.63) |
| 19:46.31 | emcnabb | goozbach, it should be out Linuxworld week |
| 19:46.38 | emcnabb | (a week from monday) |
| 19:46.47 | emcnabb | at least those are the rumors I heard |
| 19:47.38 | byronc | what's coming out during linuxworld? |
| 19:47.56 | goozbach | rhel 4 |
| 19:48.03 | emcnabb | MS is buying the OSDL |
| 19:48.10 | goozbach | oh yeah that too |
| 19:48.15 | byronc | ahh, vaya |
| 19:48.27 | emcnabb | which one? |
| 19:48.28 | brigham | which one is that? |
| 19:48.57 | Maquis | osdl? |
| 19:49.08 | goozbach | ~dict osdl |
| 19:49.17 | sjansen | osdl.org |
| 19:49.18 | goozbach | ~wikipedia osdl |
| 19:49.51 | emcnabb | they employ a lot of the big-wigs |
| 19:50.06 | Maquis | m$ is buying them? |
| 19:50.16 | emcnabb | that was a joke |
| 19:50.20 | goozbach | Maquis: emcnabb is being facetious |
| 19:50.27 | Maquis | oh |
| 19:50.28 | sjansen | I for one welcome our new M$ overlords. Long live the reboot! |
| 19:50.29 | Maquis | ok... |
| 19:50.41 | Maquis | |lart emcnabb for being facetious |
| 19:50.55 | emcnabb | it's nice to have these GB games on my Treo |
| 19:51.02 | emcnabb | I just got to level 14 on Tetris |
| 19:51.08 | emcnabb | brain overload |
| 19:51.31 | goozbach | emcnabb: a gameboy emulator for the Treo? |
| 19:51.39 | emcnabb | yup |
| 19:51.40 | goozbach | w00t! |
| 19:51.51 | emcnabb | I have tetris and tecmo bowl right now |
| 19:52.08 | emcnabb | I haven't gotten around to installing any others |
| 19:52.41 | goozbach | complete with sound? |
| 19:52.48 | goozbach | that'd be neato |
| 19:53.04 | emcnabb | no sound (it should have it though) |
| 19:53.07 | emcnabb | haven't looked into it |
| 19:53.10 | sjansen | "I could get out of bed today... or I could finish the wikipedia reading I was doing, hop on #utah for a bit, check slashdot, then play some gameboy on my phone.... Bed it is!" |
| 19:54.30 | emcnabb | I'm using Phoinix |
| 19:54.47 | goozbach | Maquis: shh! don't tell anyone... |
| 19:55.02 | Maquis | :) |
| 20:06.41 | *** join/#utah Uncle_Je1se (~Uncle_Jes@66.173.148.4) |
| 20:20.27 | *** join/#utah Uncle_Je1se (~Uncle_Jes@66.173.148.4) |
| 20:26.08 | *** join/#utah Uncle_Je1se (~Uncle_Jes@66.173.148.4) |
| 20:35.09 | byronc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:35.45 | sjansen | byronc: maybe this will help --> http://www.wesclark.com/ubn/ |
| 20:37.27 | byronc | sjansen: an indicator of whether I hit my space bar before typing an irc command might be more helpful :) |
| 20:37.28 | byronc | sjansen: great site though |
| 20:40.05 | goozbach | "maybe they're in the klingon ward" |
| 20:40.09 | goozbach | lol |
| 20:44.15 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 20:53.32 | fozz | x |
| 20:53.34 | fozz | :) |
| 20:58.14 | goozbach | fozz: what are you doing posting something? |
| 20:58.19 | goozbach | nobody said perl |
| 20:58.21 | goozbach | perl |
| 20:58.27 | goozbach | now you can post |
| 21:22.27 | sjansen | Shoot, I hope groklaw isn't right about a strong Sun influence at OSI. |
| 21:51.30 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 22:12.38 | spr | I've actually found a bag that is meant to fit my laptop! |
| 22:13.08 | sjansen | I think I've figured out how to securely use Bricolage for multiple sites! |
| 22:13.12 | sjansen | spr: congrats |
| 22:13.50 | spr | sjansen, congrats |
| 22:14.07 | spr | http://www.sfbags.com/index.htm is the site. They have some slick bags |
| 22:14.17 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 22:16.15 | sjansen | heh, bet I know where you got that link from |
| 22:17.39 | spr | byronc, it might.. I'm getting the feed from monologue |
| 22:18.54 | byronc | ahh, yes, that blog would be on both of them |
| 22:24.20 | *** join/#utah emcnabb-treo (~upirc@001-726-366.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:25.51 | emcnabb-treo | spr says: i'm talking on a phone! |
| 22:26.32 | emcnabb-treo | he wants my phone now... |
| 22:26.37 | *** part/#utah emcnabb-treo (~upirc@001-726-366.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:37.52 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf (~dataw0lf@dataw0lf.org) |
| 22:39.31 | Uncle_Je1se | I need a sample iptables entry that will take all requests coming into the machine on say port 80 and forward them to a particular ip address on the lan - anyone have an example I can use? It's been awhile since I've used iptables. |
| 22:44.30 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The source for OSS focused communication in Utah. Check out sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, etc. |
| 22:46.50 | drewbono | iptables -A PREROUTING -t nat -p tcp --dport 80 -i eth0 -j DNAT --to-destination 192.168.20.5 |
| 22:46.53 | drewbono | You mean like that? |
| 22:47.03 | Uncle_Jesse | yeah - perfect. thanks! |
| 22:49.42 | Uncle_Jesse | I think I had the to-destination wrong. I just had "to" |
| 22:50.46 | Uncle_Jesse | does PREROUTING come before or after INPUT? |
| 22:56.19 | Maquis | http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/02/04/costly.cookies.ap/index.html <-- what a WITCH!!! |
| 22:57.06 | *** join/#utah Uncle_Jesse (~Uncle_Jes@66.173.148.4) |
| 23:05.18 | wps | any action script gurus in there? |
| 23:05.21 | wps | here? |
| 23:05.21 | brigham | here is the deal, I cann connect to it just fine from work, but when I tried just now from sf.net shell, or byu cs account, it would not work... |
| 23:05.35 | wps | I am trying to dynamically stuff an array and am about to jump off a bridge |
| 23:05.47 | *** join/#utah Uncle_Je4se (~Uncle_Jes@66.173.148.4) |
| 23:15.11 | Maquis | wps: i'd recommend not jumping off the bridge |
| 23:15.24 | wps | :( |
| 23:15.25 | Maquis | what do you mean by an "action script"? |
| 23:15.44 | wps | you mean, what is action script? |
| 23:15.49 | Maquis | yup |
| 23:16.01 | wps | the scripting language used for Flash |
| 23:16.05 | Maquis | oh... |
| 23:16.10 | Maquis | hmmmm |
| 23:16.20 | Maquis | i'm assuming you've tried google? |
| 23:16.27 | wps | oh... yeah... |
| 23:16.35 | wps | been working on this one thing for two days noe |
| 23:16.36 | wps | now |
| 23:16.52 | Maquis | :( |
| 23:16.55 | wps | I been through all of the help... my manual... my advanced AS book... google... everywhere |
| 23:16.59 | wps | it's rediculous |
| 23:17.13 | Maquis | i wish i could help, but i doubt i know anything that'd help... |
| 23:17.31 | wps | no problem |
| 23:17.50 | wps | it's nice to at least have someone respond |
| 23:17.54 | Maquis | :) |
| 23:17.55 | sjansen | isn't actiona script basically ecmascript (nee' javascript)? |
| 23:17.58 | wps | the people in #flash don't even respond |
| 23:18.04 | Maquis | i'm sorry... |
| 23:18.08 | wps | similar, yes |
| 23:18.14 | wps | both written from the same standard |
| 23:18.32 | sjansen | Suppose I could take a stab at it. |
| 23:19.30 | sjansen | What exactly are you trying to do? |
| 23:21.38 | wps | http://pastebin.com/238238 |
| 23:22.06 | wps | I am parsing an XML file and then using this.firstChild.childNodes to create an array |
| 23:22.54 | wps | that array has the tags around the text though, so I am doing a for loop to get just the text and stuff that into another array, but no matter what I do, I cannot populate the second array |
| 23:26.20 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (~xbmodder@c-24-5-235-60.client.comcast.net) |
| 23:26.20 | xbmodder_lappy | hey |
| 23:26.23 | xbmodder_lappy | sup guys |
| 23:29.49 | sjansen | okay, so what I'm getting out of this is that it reads the XML file into nested arrays |
| 23:30.24 | wps | well, just one array, it's not multi-dimensional |
| 23:30.25 | sjansen | you're trying to loop through the top of the document, but you don't seem to be getting anything it all |
| 23:30.57 | sjansen | have you tried doing a === null or typeof check? |
| 23:31.30 | sjansen | I'm thinking you might just be getting getting empty content. |
| 23:31.30 | wps | well, what doesn't make sense is when I trace it out, I get exactly the data that I want, but when I try to assign the exact same data into the second, empty array, I get nothing |
| 23:31.30 | wps | no, that's kid of what I am trying now |
| 23:31.45 | xbmodder_lappy | someone made there password 'tiger91' |
| 23:31.53 | wps | I copied just that second out of the larger script, and am placing it in a second, new FLA, so that I have it isolated |
| 23:31.58 | xbmodder_lappy | some poeople sadden me |
| 23:32.04 | wps | I think that there might be other things that are affecting this |
| 23:33.16 | sjansen | does actionscript have the equivalent of of the php recursive array dumper? |
| 23:34.10 | sjansen | I'd probably switch this to recursive extraction of the data instead of iterative, other than that I don't know enough about actionscript. |
| 23:34.12 | sjansen | Sorry. |
| 23:35.20 | wps | no, it doesn't have a "print_r" |
| 23:35.25 | wps | I'd give my left leg for one |
| 23:37.31 | goozbach | picklebot can now ping me |
| 23:38.00 | goozbach | he sends my phone an sms email when you run the appropiate command |
| 23:38.05 | goozbach | that's neato |
| 23:39.27 | goozbach | woo... |
| 23:39.46 | goozbach | what would compell my bowels to generate such an odor |
| 23:39.51 | goozbach | ? |
| 23:40.03 | wps | sjansen: I got this isolated example to work: http://pastebin.com/238248 |
| 23:40.22 | wps | so, now I just have to figure out what the difference is between my isolated example and my real script |
| 23:40.48 | sjansen | it's got to be the structure of that array |
| 23:41.07 | sjansen | I'm betting it's something like: |
| 23:41.08 | wps | yeah, that's what I am thinking |
| 23:41.38 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 23:42.00 | sjansen | Array(Array("tag", "ul", Array("tag", "li"))) |
| 23:42.13 | sjansen | but messier and better designed |
| 23:42.18 | wps | yeah |
| 23:42.25 | wps | man, I need a "print_r"!! |
| 23:43.05 | sjansen | should be able write one using typeof |
| 23:44.00 | sjansen | wps: http://www.actionscript.com/flashweek/00000670.html |
| 23:44.11 | sjansen | scroll down to traceEverything |
| 23:44.53 | wps | ooo... much-thank-you |
| 23:45.22 | sjansen | although it's possible to write on that's more readable |
| 23:47.32 | sjansen | so about that left leg... |
| 23:47.50 | wps | is FedEx alright? |
| 23:48.14 | sjansen | Only if you can get it here by Monday afternoon. I won't be around the rest of the week. |
| 23:50.30 | wps | overnighting will cost you |