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| 00:00.07 | Bradipo | hans? |
| 00:00.12 | joshc | bottom posting is when you quote the entire previous message |
| 00:00.13 | Bradipo | I could be mistaken. |
| 00:00.20 | joshc | i find that irritating personally |
| 00:00.32 | joshc | i only quote a little piece of the previous message |
| 00:00.33 | Bradipo | I rarely get involved in such arguments and always call what I did bottom posting, because I, the poster, was putting my reply below the quote. |
| 00:00.35 | joshc | its a hybrid |
| 00:00.39 | joshc | im gonna patent it |
| 00:00.57 | Bradipo | Oh, I got prior art in that arena. |
| 00:01.00 | Bradipo | Look at most of my posts. :-) |
| 00:01.26 | joshc | what do you post under? |
| 00:01.30 | joshc | i mean, your name |
| 00:01.51 | Bradipo | I posted the follow up to hans' mail-archive.com announcement. |
| 00:02.21 | joshc | ah - that's how i usually do it too |
| 00:02.26 | joshc | i dont know what to call it though |
| 00:02.35 | Bradipo | I've always thought it was a bottom post. |
| 00:02.42 | Bradipo | Because I posted my reply on the bottom. |
| 00:02.55 | Bradipo | But I also trimmed it. |
| 00:03.16 | joshc | yeah, i guess bottom posting w/o trimming is not so good |
| 00:03.17 | Bradipo | I think top/bottom posting is a moot point unless you trim it. |
| 00:03.21 | Bradipo | Both are bad without trimming. |
| 00:03.26 | joshc | right on |
| 00:03.31 | joshc | okay, we got this thing nailed |
| 00:05.26 | synic | what's a good vim colorscheme with a while background? |
| 00:05.36 | hans | bradipo? |
| 00:06.05 | Bradipo | Just wondering if I was off on the discussion between top/bottom. |
| 00:06.30 | hans | joshc: fwiw I think a trimmed or even unquoted top post makes more sense too. But the prevailing groupthink is trimmed bottompost. It gives me a weapon to annoy people with. |
| 00:06.58 | Bradipo | hans: See, now this is what I was wondering about. |
| 00:07.05 | Bradipo | Have I got bottom/top posting reversed? |
| 00:07.09 | joshc | nothing like annoying people with weapons! |
| 00:07.16 | Bradipo | I always thought top posting meant that the quote was on the bottom. |
| 00:07.39 | hans | Bradipo: no, "bottom post" usually means the reply goes beneath a trimmed (but not interleaved) quote |
| 00:07.44 | Bradipo | And your post was on top (hence top posting). |
| 00:07.45 | hans | some use it for interleaving too. |
| 00:07.58 | Bradipo | Ahh, so I guess I'm really for interleaved with trimming posting. |
| 00:08.13 | Bradipo | But if all you have is one point, that falls into the same category as trimmed bottom posting. |
| 00:08.16 | hans | but what bottom posting really is, is quoting everything and putting the reply at the bottom. That's much worse than top posting, which is putting the reply at top and no trim. |
| 00:08.43 | fozz_ | I think no-posting is the best way to go. ;-) |
| 00:09.10 | hans | right. my own feeling is that quotation is way overused and we should just communicate like civilised people have been for centuries except where excessive detail is in order. |
| 00:09.25 | fozz | oh shut up. |
| 00:09.29 | joshc | lol |
| 00:09.30 | fozz | ~lart hans |
| 00:09.42 | fozz | Oooh. Nice lart. |
| 00:09.47 | joshc | nummies |
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| 00:10.02 | hans | but then there's the extra step of cutting out the quotation, and we're lazy. what we're left with is a top post that nobody reads the quotation. not so bad, unless you still believe in the bandwidth monsters. |
| 00:10.16 | joshc | shh.. |
| 00:10.22 | joshc | they'll hear you |
| 00:10.29 | Bradipo | I don't believe in bandwidth monsters, except outside of the US. |
| 00:10.30 | hans | ewww fava beans |
| 00:10.32 | sjansen | trimmed top posting is annoying when I'm reading archives and have just arrived at the thread |
| 00:10.48 | Bradipo | And also, why do it at all? If you don't expect people to read it, why include it? |
| 00:11.00 | joshc | someone should put up a web page that shows examples of all posting styles |
| 00:11.07 | hans | right, except not including it is the extra step, not the other way aroun.d |
| 00:11.11 | joshc | probably one already exists i'm guessing |
| 00:11.12 | hans | at least, with most email readers. |
| 00:11.26 | Bradipo | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_posting |
| 00:11.40 | Bradipo | Wikipedia agrees with me. |
| 00:11.51 | Bradipo | Top-posting is placing your reply above the quoted text. |
| 00:12.17 | Bradipo | ANd also Bottom-posting involves interleaving. |
| 00:12.22 | Bradipo | At least according to wikipedia. |
| 00:13.11 | sjansen | and as we all know, wikipedia knows all |
| 00:14.10 | hans | the bottom posters have the groupthink, and so they have the gorilla poundage to throw around and claim that "bottom post" describes what they do, when it doesn't. |
| 00:14.32 | Bradipo | I'm not sure I understand what you mean by groupthink... |
| 00:14.38 | Bradipo | I always thought bottom posters were in the minority. |
| 00:14.56 | Bradipo | Or do you mean that all bottom posters think alike and hence the reference to the gorilla. |
| 00:15.03 | joshc | here it is according to some guy named dan: http://mailformat.dan.info/quoting/bottom-posting.html |
| 00:15.05 | hans | the majority, of the netiquette nazis |
| 00:15.11 | hans | nobody else's opinion matters. |
| 00:15.16 | Bradipo | I see. |
| 00:15.34 | joshc | according to him, i'm a bottom poster |
| 00:15.44 | hans | it's always fun to discuss the theology of *posting, but I gotta go home. :) |
| 00:15.52 | joshc | l8r |
| 00:16.35 | Bradipo | joshc: And that's what I was saying earlier. |
| 00:16.43 | Bradipo | You are a bottom poster. |
| 00:16.54 | Bradipo | Maybe not in the strict sense, but at least your posts go to the bottom, rather than the top. |
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| 00:48.01 | joshc | hasta |
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| 01:09.00 | mheath | Hahaha |
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| 01:09.23 | mheath | Our school district is about to let some Web Development Class students put files on one of their webservers... |
| 01:09.32 | mheath | Because they're working with PHP, and need something that can interpret it |
| 01:10.06 | mheath | The teacher used phpinfo(); today in a demonstration and put the file containing it up on his website (on this server) |
| 01:10.33 | mheath | Got to looking at the phpinfo(); output......The server is running as root with safemode disabled |
| 01:10.40 | mheath | *php safemode |
| 01:12.34 | mheath | Plus dozens of other security holes (like the fact that they're apache version is ancient and they haven't upgraded the kernel in 3 years) |
| 01:12.42 | mheath | *their |
| 01:13.23 | linuxalien | They're meatpuppets. |
| 01:19.38 | linuxalien | brb |
| 01:26.05 | emcnabb | I've have a Gameboy emulator working now on my Treo |
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| 01:37.47 | levi | emcnabb: Sweet. |
| 01:37.54 | levi | emcnabb: A free one? |
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| 01:55.05 | Bradipo | Anyone know much about xfig? |
| 01:56.48 | emcnabb | levi, yeah |
| 01:57.08 | emcnabb | http://phoinix.sourceforge.net/ |
| 01:58.57 | emcnabb | just install the app, then convert the ROMs to .pdb with gb2pdb (available on the site), and install the .pdb file |
| 02:00.12 | levi | Huh, cool. |
| 02:00.44 | levi | How well do the games run? |
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| 02:06.15 | emcnabb | levi, pretty well |
| 02:06.34 | emcnabb | a little slow (atleast Tetris and Tecmo Bowl do) |
| 02:06.46 | emcnabb | the key bindings are a little strange |
| 02:06.50 | emcnabb | haven't messed with those yet |
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| 02:45.03 | tensai | ~lart flakey actiontec hardware |
| 02:54.15 | findlay | ~bzfrag lag |
| 02:54.17 | ibot | ACTION kills lag with a shot from his BZTank |
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| 03:26.59 | goozbach | wikipedia is freaking addictive |
| 03:27.13 | goozbach | I've been following links around for 2 hours now |
| 03:27.30 | goozbach | I have 7 firefox tabs dedicated to different searches |
| 03:28.04 | sjansen | goozbach: Guess where I am. |
| 03:28.32 | spr | I know, I know! |
| 03:30.59 | goozbach | UUG? |
| 03:31.52 | sjansen | on the nose |
| 03:31.54 | sjansen | jealous? |
| 03:32.09 | goozbach | kinda but no |
| 03:32.19 | goozbach | I just had some really good BBQ |
| 03:32.24 | sjansen | ~lart goozbach |
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| 03:42.32 | SpecialK | Anybody at UUG? |
| 03:43.11 | SpecialK | I went home for my birthday. |
| 03:44.40 | goozbach | sjansen is |
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| 03:48.11 | jsmith | Blah. |
| 03:51.41 | goozbach | agreed |
| 03:55.54 | jsmith | goozbach: You sell that mobo/chip yet? |
| 03:58.26 | findlay | Fine. You can have your UUG all to yourself. |
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| 04:15.59 | findlay | well, I've wasted enough time today |
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| 04:25.00 | xbmodder_lappy | sunday... |
| 04:25.09 | xbmodder_lappy | of sunday |
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| 04:40.04 | mheath | The lack of security on that server I mentioned earlier scares me... |
| 04:40.21 | mheath | Either that admin is very stupid or very naive. |
| 04:42.35 | levi | Probably naive. |
| 04:43.20 | mheath | They're running Linux 2.4.18 :) |
| 04:43.37 | mheath | But thats last on the list of security problems I found |
| 04:46.18 | mheath | levi: would you ever allow random people from a highschool to run PHP scripts on your server when you run your server as root and have PHP's safemode off? |
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| 04:54.33 | levi | No, unless I didn't realize that my server was running as root and PHP had a safemode which was off. |
| 04:55.03 | levi | I mean, he sounds naive in the sense that he doesn't understand what's going on in his server. |
| 04:55.33 | mheath | He's a fulltime system administer who just maintains some servers |
| 04:55.39 | mheath | And all of them are like this |
| 04:55.53 | xbmodder_lappy | what are you gunna do. put it in a faraday cage |
| 04:56.02 | mheath | Granted, this is the only one that hosts potentially misbehaving people (kids form the highschool) |
| 04:57.38 | xbmodder_lappy | thats what i say when people say "i have the perfect solution to keep my windows system secure" |
| 04:57.55 | mheath | Mmm, I've fallen in love with gnome-volume-manager |
| 04:58.33 | mheath | Pop in a CD-R, automatically Nautilus' CD/DVD Creator pops up, drag files into it, burn, and I'm good to go |
| 04:59.50 | mheath | CD-ROM music disks automatically play.. |
| 05:00.11 | mheath | Icons are automatically added to the desktop for volumes, like in Mac OS |
| 05:00.15 | xbmodder_lappy | wow |
| 05:00.24 | xbmodder_lappy | sounds like windows |
| 05:01.00 | xbmodder_lappy | did you know: the things we get from windows we implement better than what M$ implemented themselves... |
| 05:01.46 | mheath | xbmodder: first of all, its much more like Mac OS than windows... |
| 05:01.53 | xbmodder_lappy | yes |
| 05:01.59 | xbmodder_lappy | and... |
| 05:02.32 | mheath | Second of all, unlike Windows it sits ontop of a versatile, fast, nice hardware abstraction layer |
| 05:02.43 | mheath | and more seamlessly integrates with my gnome desktop |
| 05:03.43 | xbmodder_lappy | see thats why "the things we get from windows we implement better than what M$ implemented themselves..." |
| 05:15.29 | levi | Ahh, I just realized I didn't have famd running. |
| 05:18.56 | xbmodder_lappy | ~join #pwiki |
| 05:18.59 | xbmodder_lappy | :( |
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| 05:32.58 | joshc | okay - i think i overdid it on that last email to the plug list.. |
| 05:35.33 | goozbach | heh |
| 05:35.44 | goozbach | I _just_ finished reading it |
| 05:35.47 | levi | Hm, ggv won't work. |
| 05:36.48 | joshc | so whadya think, i over did it, huh |
| 05:36.57 | joshc | is art a libertarian? |
| 05:37.46 | goozbach | I think that the entire thread turned me to "glance over looking for pearls of quotes" mode long ago |
| 05:37.53 | joshc | lol |
| 05:38.11 | goozbach | I'm not really even paying attention now |
| 05:38.28 | joshc | well i think a lot of folks dropped out of it |
| 05:38.40 | goozbach | I did read it. but, no offense, I'm not gonna go read it again |
| 05:38.40 | joshc | which is too bad, because its an interesting discussion |
| 05:39.23 | goozbach | I really didn't read it well enough to form an opinion the first time |
| 05:39.36 | goozbach | yes it is a good discussion... |
| 05:39.49 | goozbach | causing many people to have a healthy discussion |
| 05:39.51 | joshc | well, some people are into that sort of thing and other kinda arent |
| 05:40.30 | joshc | its sort of self indulgent though - i'm entertaining myself |
| 05:40.38 | goozbach | I enjoy participating more than observing I've been intentionally keeping out of this one |
| 05:41.00 | joshc | dont have the bandwidth to get involved in this one? |
| 05:41.30 | goozbach | no, just don't have the time to properly reply |
| 05:41.42 | joshc | i guess thats what i mean |
| 05:41.45 | goozbach | correctly trimmed etc |
| 05:41.48 | joshc | bandwidth = time |
| 05:41.56 | goozbach | in that case no |
| 05:42.11 | goozbach | if I were teaching a normal class this week I probally could have. |
| 05:42.24 | joshc | i'm mostly doing recruiting and closing funding |
| 05:42.28 | joshc | lots of dead time inbetween |
| 05:42.33 | goozbach | but I'm having to teach a 4 day class in 2.5 days |
| 05:42.42 | joshc | where do you teach? |
| 05:42.49 | goozbach | everywhere |
| 05:42.59 | joshc | well, not *everywhere* |
| 05:43.04 | joshc | ;-) |
| 05:43.08 | goozbach | I'm teaching a RedHat class for IBM right now |
| 05:43.33 | goozbach | I _DO_ teach everywhere, I'm in MN right now, Canada next week |
| 05:43.42 | goozbach | who knows where the week after |
| 05:43.45 | joshc | you teach technical classes for corporations? |
| 05:43.52 | goozbach | yup |
| 05:43.55 | joshc | i see. |
| 05:44.01 | goozbach | Linux courses |
| 05:44.19 | joshc | are you with a particular firm? |
| 05:44.27 | joshc | or are you a solo consultant? |
| 05:44.38 | goozbach | The IBM building I'm teaching at is the third largest complex in the company |
| 05:44.50 | goozbach | I work for Guru Labs |
| 05:44.56 | joshc | ah. i see. |
| 05:45.03 | goozbach | they contract with Red Hat and others |
| 05:45.29 | joshc | teaching sounds fun. but i dont like travel. |
| 05:46.52 | goozbach | I love the travel |
| 05:47.04 | goozbach | I've seen most the US |
| 05:47.17 | goozbach | (something most cannot say) |
| 05:47.43 | joshc | that'd be a fun thing to do if i didnt have to travel. |
| 05:47.48 | goozbach | in Dec I waded on both coasts within 36 hours |
| 05:48.10 | joshc | modern travel is amazing. |
| 05:48.30 | joshc | i've only been a handful of places - mostly for work. |
| 05:48.33 | goozbach | I'm finally getting complemtary first-class upgrades |
| 05:48.43 | joshc | first class is a lot of fun. |
| 05:48.48 | goozbach | makes flying so much easier/more enjoyable |
| 05:49.09 | joshc | i've only been on a private jet cross country once |
| 05:49.14 | joshc | that was better than first class |
| 05:49.25 | joshc | but it cost $20K per round trip |
| 05:49.32 | joshc | (of course, i wasnt paying for it!) |
| 05:49.35 | *** part/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:50.12 | goozbach | methinks flash is borked on my machine |
| 05:50.25 | goozbach | they all seem to be going 900MPH |
| 05:50.34 | joshc | what os you running? |
| 05:51.04 | goozbach | FC3 |
| 05:51.35 | joshc | well, it's probably not 1st on the "works with flash" checklist. |
| 05:52.32 | goozbach | I believe the plugin to be broken |
| 05:52.44 | goozbach | but I'm not gonna deal with it tonight |
| 05:53.01 | goozbach | I'm going to bed, tis midnight |
| 05:53.09 | mheath | Gah, I suck at graphics design |
| 05:53.26 | mheath | I have a wonderful web design and its perfect except for one graphic that throws the entire thing off |
| 05:53.35 | joshc | gnight |
| 05:53.45 | mheath | er |
| 05:53.49 | mheath | now :) |
| 05:54.00 | joshc | lol - me too. cya. |
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| 06:02.12 | xbmodder_lappy | hey |
| 06:02.25 | xbmodder_lappy | can everyone write a section on Wikipedia about me? |
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| 06:03.33 | levi | Why would we do that? |
| 06:03.52 | xbmodder_lappy | because you want to anonymously comment on me |
| 06:03.53 | xbmodder_lappy | :) |
| 06:05.10 | xbmodder_lappy | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sargun_Dhillon |
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| 06:37.39 | LrnChndlr | hey i need some help with a server that keeps crashing |
| 06:37.46 | LrnChndlr | if anyone is still awake |
| 06:37.55 | tene | I am |
| 06:38.02 | tene | dunno if'n I can helpish, tho |
| 06:38.52 | LrnChndlr | this morning it was frozen, so i cycled the power and it came back up fine |
| 06:39.15 | LrnChndlr | this afternoon the same thing happened, and now about a half hour ago again |
| 06:39.30 | LrnChndlr | all I see in /var/log/messages is this repeated: |
| 06:39.38 | LrnChndlr | Feb 3 23:35:00 lorenandmichelle CROND[2689]: (root) CMD ( /usr/share/sshd-monitor/sshd-restarter) |
| 06:39.39 | LrnChndlr | Feb 3 23:35:00 lorenandmichelle sshd[2694]: Did not receive identification string from ::ffff:127.0.0.1 |
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| 06:40.14 | LrnChndlr | this seems to repeat every 5 minutes |
| 06:42.44 | LrnChndlr | i dont know if this has anything to do with the freeze or not, though |
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| 07:27.00 | Maquis|laptop | does anybody here actually have experience getting an ipod mini to work in linux? |
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| 08:51.46 | xbmodder | Maquis|laptop, sure |
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| 12:22.44 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 14:10.51 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 14:12.05 | goozbach | what!? no new posts to the plug list since last night?!!! |
| 14:12.22 | Maquis|laptop | mornin goo |
| 14:13.05 | goozbach | ohh tough choice |
| 14:13.13 | goozbach | I know what I'd do. |
| 14:13.18 | Maquis|laptop | what? |
| 14:13.26 | goozbach | ... play halo till 11 |
| 14:13.36 | Maquis|laptop | (or i could ignore them both and focus on getting my new ipod working, like i did last night) |
| 14:13.52 | goozbach | I like that choice |
| 14:14.04 | goozbach | so you got one? |
| 14:14.09 | goozbach | which one? |
| 14:14.09 | Maquis|laptop | yup |
| 14:14.14 | Maquis|laptop | blue ipod mini |
| 14:16.50 | mheath | You all read slashdot? :) |
| 14:18.30 | Maquis|laptop | mheath: i haven't today... |
| 14:21.52 | goozbach | just started reading the six laws |
| 14:22.26 | Maquis|laptop | goozbach: 6 laws? |
| 14:22.35 | Maquis|laptop | ah |
| 14:22.37 | Maquis|laptop | found it |
| 14:26.35 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@c-67-172-242-219.client.comcast.net) |
| 14:30.51 | goozbach | well time for class to start |
| 14:31.12 | goozbach | here's hoping that I get done in time to catch my flight |
| 14:34.41 | *** join/#utah jsmith (~jsmith@pip.drs1.omniture.com) |
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| 15:02.20 | *** join/#utah jsmith (~jsmith@pip.drs1.omniture.com) |
| 15:05.19 | hans | jsmith: know anything about libiax and iaxclient as libraries? |
| 15:06.36 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@209.197.11.63) |
| 15:09.03 | jsmith | hans: Yeah, a little bit. Why? |
| 15:09.13 | jsmith | hans: You gonna write your own IAX softphone? |
| 15:09.46 | jsmith | hans: That's what Iaxcomm is -- an example of "here's how you use iaxlib in a real program" |
| 15:09.53 | hans | thinking about it. just a simple CLI or curses one |
| 15:09.59 | jsmith | hans: I know several other softphones have expressed interest in doing that. |
| 15:10.10 | jsmith | hans: There's a CLI version that comes with the source of iaxlib |
| 15:10.26 | hans | I see the one in iaxclient. might be a good start. |
| 15:10.55 | hans | more important than the CLI-ness is that it would talk to jack and ALSA - none of this rotten oss stuff. |
| 15:11.12 | hans | I'm just planning CLI because it's simple and I don't need more for my own itch |
| 15:11.47 | jsmith | Sounds like fun. |
| 15:11.57 | hans | anyway, i can't tell whether iaxlib2 has a real home somewhere or if it just exists as a fork in a subdirectory in half a dozen different projects |
| 15:12.14 | jsmith | hans: Travis and I have made a little progress on krull too, btw. |
| 15:12.28 | hans | cool |
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| 15:30.37 | xbmodder | hey emcnabb |
| 15:34.06 | emcnabb | hello |
| 15:34.51 | xbmodder | wasup? |
| 15:35.34 | emcnabb | nothing |
| 15:35.36 | emcnabb | just got to work |
| 15:36.33 | xbmodder | cool cool |
| 15:36.59 | jsmith | goozbach: D'you sell that motherboard and CPU yet? |
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| 16:03.57 | vontrapp | man, php's map sucks |
| 16:04.37 | *** join/#utah markl__ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:06.48 | hans | ha! msn messenger attacked by worm. serves msn users right |
| 16:08.02 | vontrapp | just barely? |
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| 16:09.29 | *** join/#utah ECS (~ecs@ecs-dell.byu.edu) |
| 16:10.01 | goozbach | jsmith: no, not yet |
| 16:11.34 | *** join/#utah erj (~erikrj@207.108.175.218) |
| 16:12.05 | *** join/#utah tensai_ (~tensai@207.141.37.66) |
| 16:12.26 | *** join/#utah joshc (~josh@jcoates.org) |
| 16:12.38 | joshc | guhmorning |
| 16:13.45 | joshc | ibot, good morning |
| 16:13.46 | ibot | rumour has it, good morning is a contradiction in terms |
| 16:15.40 | Jayce^ | very true |
| 16:16.37 | *** join/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.116) |
| 16:17.01 | goozbach | I just couldn't resist |
| 16:17.01 | Jayce^ | back on heavy caffeine? |
| 16:17.19 | goozbach | Jayce^: no, I did that a LONG time ago |
| 16:17.52 | goozbach | I just replied to the relgion/politics thread |
| 16:18.26 | Jayce^ | ahhh |
| 16:18.41 | Jayce^ | hey, it's what a 'community' is about :) |
| 16:18.49 | hans | relating to that thread and joshc's statistics: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/02/04/udrink.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/02/04/ixportaltop.html |
| 16:21.47 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 16:23.16 | goozbach | doh! forgot to trim... |
| 16:23.21 | goozbach | ~shoot me |
| 16:23.23 | ibot | ACTION shoots goozbach in the head with a spitwad! |
| 16:25.11 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 16:29.23 | ECS | ~shoot goo |
| 16:29.25 | ibot | ACTION shoots goo in the foot with a cork gun! |
| 16:29.47 | ECS | those are much less violent than ~kill |
| 16:29.50 | goozbach | ~shoot me |
| 16:29.52 | ibot | ACTION shoots goozbach in the foot with a phase pistol! |
| 16:30.07 | goozbach | yeah but I have no foot now |
| 16:30.08 | goozbach | ~shoot me |
| 16:30.12 | ibot | ACTION shoots goozbach in the ear with a glue gun! |
| 16:30.13 | hans | ~decapitate goozbach |
| 16:30.17 | ibot | ACTION cuts of goozbach's head with a halberd that could have been a little bit sharper |
| 16:30.23 | goozbach | ~shoot me |
| 16:30.25 | ibot | ACTION shoots goozbach in the ear with a spitwad! |
| 16:30.25 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 16:30.28 | goozbach | ~shoot me |
| 16:30.30 | ibot | ACTION shoots goozbach in the ear with a cork gun! |
| 16:30.33 | goozbach | ~shoot me |
| 16:30.35 | ibot | ACTION shoots goozbach in the ear with a quantum singularity weapon! |
| 16:33.50 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 16:35.20 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@dhcp173.openinternet.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:35.45 | Jayce^ | ~lart sjansen for forgetting to specify a background color on the new plug design |
| 16:36.01 | sjansen | Ha ha! |
| 16:36.36 | sjansen | And decent browser defaults to white these days unless the user is stupid enought to change the default.... oh, wait. ;-) |
| 16:36.55 | Jayce^ | actually, all decent browsers default to your theme background color! |
| 16:37.16 | Jayce^ | and some of us use alternative contrasts, because staring at white all day gives headaches |
| 16:37.44 | sjansen | heh, just tried to sudo on the wrong system |
| 16:37.49 | tene | hehe |
| 16:37.59 | tene | with what command? |
| 16:38.08 | hans | rm -rf /home/tene |
| 16:38.17 | sjansen | Jayce^: I know. You're actually right. But I couldn't resist the chance to take a pot shot at your intellect. |
| 16:38.49 | levi | I like white backgrounds. |
| 16:40.34 | sjansen | http://paste.lisp.org/display/5532 |
| 16:41.01 | sjansen | not very friendly, huh? |
| 16:41.18 | levi | Yeah, I've got that before. |
| 16:41.41 | levi | You could use one of the other 'let me be superuser for a while' commands instead, if it offends you. ;) |
| 16:43.00 | tene | sudo chmod a+X /bin/zsh |
| 16:43.36 | sjansen | Jayce^: better? |
| 16:43.50 | Jayce^ | much |
| 16:44.51 | Jayce^ | sjansen, orbit was just looking yesterday, saying that there is a way to get sudo to 'insult' you when you mess up/dont' have permissions |
| 16:44.52 | levi | Wow, HURD/L4 actually ran a program. |
| 16:44.59 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 16:45.58 | levi | It ran 'banner' and printed a very large ! on the screen. |
| 16:46.18 | levi | Next up... emacs! ;) |
| 16:46.21 | *** join/#utah alphahawk (~alphahawk@70.56.105.158) |
| 16:46.41 | tene | yes! have it run a root emacs on failure! |
| 16:48.27 | Jayce^ | hehe... foxtrot... |
| 16:48.58 | neybar | are we still bashing on Jayce for having a non-white background theme? |
| 16:49.12 | neybar | ~lart Jayce^ non-white color scheme |
| 16:49.51 | sjansen | neybar: Of course not! We all know that Jayce^ has "special needs" and respect that. |
| 16:49.52 | tene | ~lart Jayce^ taco |
| 16:49.55 | Jayce^ | ~slap neybar |
| 16:49.57 | ibot | ACTION slaps neybar, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 16:51.57 | joshc | speaking of grubby |
| 16:51.59 | *** join/#utah Peregrine (~lamontp@h-68-165-180-10.lsanca54.covad.net) |
| 16:52.07 | tene | ~lart vim |
| 16:52.16 | joshc | i always thought rot grub was one of the creepiest monsters |
| 16:52.19 | joshc | in the manual |
| 16:52.45 | Peregrine | Hey sjansen. |
| 16:54.16 | joshc | dont tell me we dont have a handful of ex-d&d nerds here.. |
| 16:54.30 | Jayce^ | mmmmm D&D |
| 16:54.47 | hans | never |
| 16:54.48 | joshc | thats how i learned to read |
| 16:55.04 | Jayce^ | ~lart AD&D 3.xxxxx.xxx editions.. |
| 16:55.14 | joshc | trying to read d&d manuals in kindergarten |
| 16:55.26 | Jayce^ | they can't just publish a version, gotta keep doing new releases... with #@$@ books |
| 16:55.46 | sjansen | Most of the people I tried playing with spent too much time rolling dice. |
| 16:56.09 | joshc | i sort of bailed out of the scene sometime in the late 80's |
| 16:56.22 | Jayce^ | junior high was my main time for it.. |
| 16:56.30 | spr | Everytime I go home |
| 16:56.31 | joshc | but imho, gurps is a much better system |
| 16:56.36 | Jayce^ | true |
| 16:56.41 | vontrapp | where's brigham? |
| 16:56.48 | Jayce^ | favorite game, Paranoia... |
| 16:56.52 | Jayce^ | anybody else try that one? |
| 16:56.59 | joshc | lol. the computer is your friend. |
| 16:57.03 | Jayce^ | exactly |
| 16:57.19 | joshc | i was always like the frankenstein destroyers |
| 16:57.45 | Bradipo | I never got into D&D, but I really enjoyed MERP. |
| 16:57.51 | Jayce^ | that game was a haven for bad puns, good storytellers, and wild imaginations |
| 16:57.51 | joshc | but we must always pay homage to the 'keep on the borderlands' and the crayon. |
| 16:58.30 | joshc | and morgan ironwolf. |
| 16:58.32 | joshc | she was hot. |
| 16:58.47 | Jayce^ | shadowrun |
| 16:58.55 | Jayce^ | liked the concept on that one |
| 16:59.04 | joshc | shadowrun? |
| 16:59.23 | Jayce^ | fantasy semi-future.. |
| 16:59.42 | Jayce^ | magic comes back to the world, massive chaos insues, world moves on.. |
| 16:59.46 | Jayce^ | tech + magic :) |
| 16:59.48 | joshc | of course. |
| 17:00.05 | joshc | i still have a couple of issues of dragon magazine..like #60 or so |
| 17:00.12 | joshc | the ads are great. |
| 17:00.28 | joshc | hans - you ever see mamma mia? |
| 17:01.09 | joshc | you've seen the bill gates d&d character from theonion.com - right? |
| 17:01.12 | joshc | now that's a bust up. |
| 17:01.22 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 17:02.47 | hans | joshc: no, I've never met your mamma |
| 17:03.12 | joshc | you seem like someone who might appreciate abba |
| 17:03.59 | hans | heh. not sure what stockhausen has to do with abba, but if its any consolation I like erasure's remixes of abbas songs. |
| 17:04.58 | hans | real abba is a little too high-pitched for my taste. |
| 17:05.30 | joshc | i dont really know what stockhausen is, but it just made me think of abba. |
| 17:05.55 | joshc | and i think abba is pretty musically talented |
| 17:06.04 | hans | it's way out, it is. elektronikmusiche or however it's spelled |
| 17:06.16 | hans | electronic music from the 50s/60s in germany |
| 17:06.25 | hans | I can send you a sample if you like. |
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| 17:07.12 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 17:08.13 | Jayce^ | mmm, erasure... |
| 17:08.47 | joshc | i'm actually not a big music fan |
| 17:09.30 | joshc | er, i used-to-kinda be one, but not really |
| 17:09.31 | hans | you don't like music? |
| 17:10.02 | hans | then you'd love stockhausen. most people wouldn't go as far as calling it music. |
| 17:10.10 | joshc | i used to listen to it a lot - pretty eclectic tastes |
| 17:10.17 | Jayce^ | heh.. speaking of D&D, get fuzzy today :) |
| 17:10.28 | joshc | fuzzy? |
| 17:10.53 | joshc | http://web.archive.org/web/20030606213346/http://theonion.com/onion3121/billgates.html |
| 17:11.59 | Jayce^ | http://www.dilbert.com/comics/getfuzzy/index.html |
| 17:13.26 | joshc | here is his character sheet (onion put in the premium section now) |
| 17:13.26 | joshc | http://snorkel.rtfm.com.au/~om/graphics/Amusing/billgateschart.gif |
| 17:14.57 | hans | joshc: http://www.xmission.com/~fugalh/03.Etude_(1952).ogg |
| 17:15.00 | joshc | thats a funny one - but i'm not familiar with all the new d&d rules |
| 17:15.28 | joshc | oggs...you want me to get an ogg player now, eh? |
| 17:16.01 | joshc | i'll see if wmplayer can figure it out |
| 17:16.02 | hans | shame if you don't have one. ;) |
| 17:16.08 | hans | winamp groks |
| 17:16.17 | hans | wimp, I dunno. |
| 17:16.21 | joshc | i havent had winamp installed in a while |
| 17:16.22 | *** join/#utah Ruis (~ruise@cust-208-187-123-219.bbsc.net) |
| 17:16.40 | joshc | it's d/ling - it'll take a sec |
| 17:17.09 | joshc | hans, you ever hang out at the music section of archive.org? |
| 17:17.18 | joshc | with the "tapers" |
| 17:17.24 | hans | no |
| 17:17.26 | joshc | they have mass format wars over there |
| 17:17.37 | joshc | you should check it out - a zillion terabytes of free music |
| 17:17.43 | joshc | from a bazillion sources |
| 17:18.25 | hans | heh. I'm not much into sifting through a bunch of junk for the gems. I let the gems come to me by association with people (or programs, hopefully eventually) I trust. |
| 17:18.48 | joshc | they've got a pretty good peer review ratings system over there |
| 17:19.09 | joshc | and you already know what you are getting from the tapers. |
| 17:19.20 | joshc | they have all the grateful dead concerts ever recorded |
| 17:19.29 | joshc | in lossless format |
| 17:19.43 | joshc | they have some tenacious-d |
| 17:20.28 | Bradipo | hans: I'm surprised that mail-archive.com hasn't started showing PLUG. The messages to the archiver aren't backed up by chance are they? |
| 17:23.07 | joshc | you ever see the tenacious-d 'tribute' video? |
| 17:23.57 | *** part/#utah Ruis (~ruise@cust-208-187-123-219.bbsc.net) |
| 17:24.03 | *** join/#utah brailsmt (~michael@adsl-66-142-236-67.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 17:26.06 | stuporgl1e | c |
| 17:26.15 | joshc | argh. i cant get the ogg to play in winamp lite |
| 17:26.29 | joshc | no error messages either. nice software. |
| 17:26.32 | joshc | :-/ |
| 17:28.02 | goozbach | winamp has had troubles lately |
| 17:28.24 | vontrapp | pretty good |
| 17:28.40 | vontrapp | a little cheesy at the end though |
| 17:29.10 | Peregrine | Try Sonique, it rocks all over WinAMP. (hey, I thought that WMPlayer could do OGG, but what would I know about that, I use Linux!) |
| 17:29.58 | sjansen | Admitting a Windows addiction is the first step to curing it. |
| 17:30.04 | vontrapp | Peregrine: nah, it's too wimpy for oggs |
| 17:30.10 | Peregrine | http://www.sonique.com/ <-- It will redirect to a Lycos site since Lycos bought them a couple of years ago. I recommend starting with version 1.xx of sonique. Try out Sonique2 if you like, later. |
| 17:30.31 | Peregrine | Oh, well; MS to the rescue of noone, eh, vontrapp? |
| 17:30.38 | Peregrine | :) |
| 17:30.48 | Jayce^ | http://justafad.com/ |
| 17:32.04 | vontrapp | i had a roommate that was engrained in wimp, and i'd always be like, "oh, i have that song" and then like, "oh yeah, it's ogg" |
| 17:32.15 | vontrapp | he finally started using foobar |
| 17:32.28 | vontrapp | don't know why he picked that one, but it played oggs |
| 17:32.38 | joshc | why are oggs special? |
| 17:32.40 | vontrapp | he had some strange aversion to WinAmp |
| 17:32.56 | Jayce^ | good sound, had vbr before mp3, totally free |
| 17:33.06 | Jayce^ | better sound at medium rates than mp3 |
| 17:33.12 | levi | joshc: I never saw the attraction of using ogg, myself. |
| 17:33.19 | Peregrine | justafad is good. Thanks. |
| 17:33.27 | joshc | the totally free thing makes sense |
| 17:33.36 | joshc | mp3 has some intellectual property issue iirc |
| 17:33.40 | Jayce^ | correct |
| 17:33.49 | Jayce^ | technically, all those free encoders are illegal :) |
| 17:33.54 | vontrapp | and ogg vorbis, how could you get a cooler name than that :) |
| 17:34.19 | Peregrine | Hey! I think Peregrine is a cool name. |
| 17:34.33 | Jayce^ | fool of a took |
| 17:34.38 | vontrapp | and vontrapp... but vorbis.. wow |
| 17:34.48 | levi | I think occh vorpal would be cooler. Vorpal is way cooler than vorbis. |
| 17:35.01 | vontrapp | granted |
| 17:35.12 | Jayce^ | vorpal.. going back to D&D I see |
| 17:35.17 | Jayce^ | :p |
| 17:35.38 | hans | levi: it's not only freer than mp3, it's better. audibly so |
| 17:35.45 | hans | and better compression to boot |
| 17:36.08 | hans | I never understood why people cling to mp3, although I have a vague idea of the market forces |
| 17:37.02 | levi | We use mp3 because it's universal. An mp3 player chip probably costs a couple of bucks in bulk. |
| 17:37.31 | tene | hans: "my mp3s play just fine why should i change ive used them for a long time they still work just as good as they did when i started using them youre just strange stop using those wierd file formats you crazy linux zealot"? |
| 17:37.42 | Jayce^ | ogg requires a littl emore horsepower, but there is a free lib now that makes up for that |
| 17:37.55 | levi | Free libs mean nothing. |
| 17:38.06 | sjansen | or very little |
| 17:38.13 | joshc | well, actually vorpal was from through the looking glass before d&d.. |
| 17:38.19 | tene | levi: free lib that makes up for using more horsepower |
| 17:38.34 | vontrapp | yeah, until things don't support mp3 anymore because of legal issues |
| 17:38.36 | levi | tene: How much does the processor that runs the lib cost? |
| 17:38.37 | stuporgl1e | It's hard to switch over too. I've got everything in MP3, so if I switch, then I've got lower quality files |
| 17:38.40 | vontrapp | remember all that pain with .gif? |
| 17:38.47 | Jayce^ | levi, it lets you run it on the same chip |
| 17:38.47 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 17:38.52 | hans | I don't switch my mp3s |
| 17:38.55 | Jayce^ | instead of needing one with more floating point |
| 17:38.59 | levi | Jayce^: Not if you decode mp3s with a $2 custom chip. |
| 17:39.03 | hans | I just use ogg for new encodings |
| 17:39.26 | joshc | i say we pacify the masses with opium and religion |
| 17:39.34 | joshc | oops |
| 17:39.42 | joshc | did i say that? |
| 17:39.45 | hans | and I'm not talking about hardware devices. naturally they're going to go with what's most popular |
| 17:39.49 | vontrapp | levi: design your $2 chip to play oggs |
| 17:39.49 | Jayce^ | levi, actually yeah, that's what some of the irivers do, etc.. |
| 17:39.58 | hans | and the fact that everyone's archives are in mp3 just heralds back to the napster heyday |
| 17:40.02 | levi | You can buy chips that just decode mp3s. They're really cheap. No such thing exists for ogg, so you need a full CPU, which is expensive. |
| 17:40.16 | levi | vontrapp: I didn't design the chip. It's out there on the market. |
| 17:40.29 | hans | there's no reason, unless you're addicted to your little walkman++, to be tied to mp3. even on windows |
| 17:40.42 | tensai_ | http://www.futurlec.com/News/Atmel/Atmel-MP3.shtml |
| 17:40.45 | tensai_ | something like that? |
| 17:41.06 | levi | Something like that. |
| 17:41.21 | tensai_ | no way a $40 mp3 cd player has a strongarm cpu |
| 17:42.03 | levi | http://web.media.mit.edu/~ladyada/make/minty/index.html |
| 17:42.08 | hans | anyway, the original point was, why use ogg? The answer was because it's better and freer. mp3's ubiquity doesn't counter that argument. |
| 17:42.33 | hans | just like windows' ubiquity isn't usually an argument, for me, against using linux. For some it is, I know. |
| 17:42.37 | joshc | oh yeah - kinda like betamax |
| 17:42.42 | joshc | ;-) |
| 17:43.07 | hans | betamax is a poor comparison. |
| 17:43.19 | tensai_ | I don't think betamax was freer though. correct me if I'm wrong. I was a kiddie back then. |
| 17:43.38 | levi | http://www.st.com/stonline/prodpres/dedicate/mp3/sta013.htm |
| 17:43.50 | levi | That's the mp3 chip the Minty player uses. |
| 17:43.52 | Jayce^ | betamax was a lot more expensive |
| 17:44.32 | hans | levi: the thing I find amusing, is that we should all be ignoring lisp and smalltalk by your argument. |
| 17:44.48 | hans | because perl, python, C, vb, etc. are more popular. |
| 17:45.31 | levi | hans: I'm not saying to ignore ogg because it's less popular. I'm saying I haven't seen an increase in utility sufficient to make me switch. |
| 17:45.45 | levi | hans: In fact, it's a loss of utility, because I wouldn't be able to play them on my ipod. |
| 17:45.56 | levi | Lots of people play music on portable players, and ogg-playing ones are expensive. |
| 17:46.13 | joshc | well, from what i recall, betamax was better quality, but less popular - making it more expensive |
| 17:46.14 | levi | Because they don't have cheap custom ogg-chips. |
| 17:46.16 | joshc | sounds like ogg to me |
| 17:46.20 | Jayce^ | actually, the iriver is cheaper than the ipod :) |
| 17:46.24 | hans | lots os people run software on windows, and perl/python/lisp/smalltalk/etc. on windows is hard |
| 17:46.26 | joshc | sans the ip issues |
| 17:46.30 | Jayce^ | but I have an ipod... and have had to rerip some music :) |
| 17:46.38 | levi | Jayce^: But I'd have to buy one, which is more expensive than using the iPod I have. |
| 17:47.02 | Jayce^ | joshc, betamax wasn't more expesive because it was less popular, it was more expensive because of sony licensing |
| 17:47.14 | joshc | ah. |
| 17:47.28 | Jayce^ | very restrictive/expensive licensing |
| 17:47.30 | levi | hans: You can run perl/python/lisp/smalltalk/etc on Windows just as easily as elsewhere. Well, maybe not perl, but the rest. |
| 17:47.31 | joshc | but i imagine the lack of popularity didnt help w/ the cost |
| 17:47.43 | Jayce^ | VHS was a direct result of the cost |
| 17:47.48 | joshc | perl is pretty easy to run on windows |
| 17:47.59 | levi | perl is just heavily unix-oriented. |
| 17:48.10 | joshc | but people that run windows, usually dont give a crap about perl/python/lisp etc |
| 17:48.13 | levi | Much easier to understand if you're familiar with sh, awk, sed, etc. |
| 17:48.56 | levi | Well, most people don't give a crap about lisp or smalltalk, but probably more who do give a crap run Windows than anything else. |
| 17:49.22 | joshc | you think lisp is run more on windows than *nix? |
| 17:49.36 | hans | I see no reason to sell out my music collection to a player that can only play an inferior format. I wouldn't buy a player that couldn't do ogg and flac. But I'm an audiophile, not a normal person. |
| 17:49.40 | joshc | i dont know much about smalltalk, but i think lisp is still mostly run on *nix |
| 17:50.10 | Jayce^ | hans, true, you have specialized needs.. I would have preferred support, but on my headphones, it's "good enough" for my needs |
| 17:50.33 | levi | Well, maybe not lisp. Smalltalk, though. |
| 17:50.35 | Jayce^ | and I preferred the interface of the ipod |
| 17:51.35 | joshc | hans - a true audio file would use SHN |
| 17:51.51 | Jayce^ | nah, shn has it's problems, go flac :) |
| 17:52.03 | hans | shn? what is that that flac isnt? |
| 17:52.04 | levi | SHN is for deadheads. ;) |
| 17:52.11 | joshc | lol |
| 17:52.36 | levi | hans: It has a zillion Grateful Dead taped shows in its format. That's what it has that flac doesn't. ;) |
| 17:52.52 | hans | all the more reason not to care. :) |
| 17:52.57 | joshc | doh! |
| 17:53.19 | joshc | what about soundtribe sector9 ?? |
| 17:53.30 | joshc | w00t! |
| 17:54.11 | sjansen | The Grateful Dead is for wimps and commies. Real men listen to Albert Schwitezer and the Polka Kings of Death. |
| 17:54.18 | tensai_ | I also remember Sony refused to license betamax to the porn industry. they concequently chose vhs. I hear that had a big impact on people's hardware purchases. |
| 17:55.27 | joshc | sounds like an urban legend |
| 17:55.38 | joshc | but there is probably some truth to it |
| 17:57.16 | tensai_ | One claim which has been made is that the failure of Betamax was driven by the porn industry's preference for "cheap convenient VHS". Whilst claims that this was because Sony disallowed the sex industry from licensing the format are unlikely since the licenses applied to the production of equipment, the sex industry's reluctance to use Betamax may have been due to the short, one-hour time limit on the original Betamax tapes. |
| 17:57.23 | tensai_ | from wikipedia |
| 17:58.36 | joshc | so the short answer is "maybe" |
| 17:58.45 | joshc | but no one knows |
| 17:59.08 | goozbach | porn drives the internet |
| 17:59.17 | goozbach | so why not video? |
| 17:59.42 | joshc | lots of things drive the internet |
| 17:59.51 | joshc | lots of things drove video |
| 18:01.56 | joshc | now i have that beatles song stuck in my head |
| 18:02.25 | joshc | mixed with the buggles song |
| 18:03.03 | joshc | 'baby you can drive my car'...'video killed the radio star' |
| 18:03.22 | Jayce^ | joshc, now I'll play you the erasure version of the buggles song (ala "other peoples songs") |
| 18:03.43 | joshc | i prefer the everclear cover of it |
| 18:03.48 | joshc | i just cant take erasure |
| 18:03.57 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@208.186.180.204) |
| 18:04.23 | Jayce^ | ~lart joshc for not loving the synth :) |
| 18:04.23 | hans | joshc: did you get that listened to? I didn't catch your response if you did. |
| 18:04.58 | joshc | no, neither wmplayer or winamp could play the ogg format |
| 18:05.11 | joshc | but i gave it the college try |
| 18:05.32 | joshc | synth is cool (the cars used it well) it's..um, well other things |
| 18:05.32 | hans | winamp has supported it for quite some time. that's odd. Oh well |
| 18:05.59 | joshc | weirdness. i just downloaded the lite version, which has a big CHECK next to "supports all sort of neat formats" |
| 18:06.23 | joshc | it just sits there, and doesnt play, as if it's 0 seconds long. no error messages. |
| 18:06.30 | hans | if you want to hear it, you'll find a way. |
| 18:06.33 | Jayce^ | winamp can do ogg, for the last couple years it has |
| 18:07.00 | byronc | winamp only does ogg if you download the full version |
| 18:07.14 | joshc | so you have to pay the $15 to listen to ogg? |
| 18:07.20 | Jayce^ | no |
| 18:07.30 | joshc | oh, the full, free version |
| 18:07.39 | joshc | i'll try that... |
| 18:08.26 | Peregrine | The Final Word about Audio Compression Formats: FLAC is lossless; MP3 is ubiquitous, but OGG is technically better. MP3 chips are cheap, OGG chips do exist but are not as common. As a bit of an audiophile myself, I use OGG for most stuff. When I have several terrabytes of storage on my file server, I will re-rip everything to FLAC and put it in my database (customized media db app I am building with conversion capabilities to give |
| 18:08.26 | Peregrine | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.07 | hans | iriver plays ogg? |
| 18:09.12 | goozbach | yup |
| 18:10.04 | Peregrine | joshc: go to http://www.sonique.com/ and download a really awsome player for Windoze. One of the coolest features is that it uses a whole let less processor than any other software player I have ever tried! |
| 18:10.10 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~sjk36@128.187.175.70) |
| 18:12.16 | joshc | oh, so i can play counter-strike while listen to brittany spears on sonique at the same time?? |
| 18:12.16 | tensai_ | for windows I like foobar2000. stupid name but works well especially in jukebox mode which is what I prefer. |
| 18:12.20 | joshc | suh-weet! |
| 18:12.50 | *** join/#utah synic|w (~synic@66.239.17.228.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:13.14 | joshc | i'm tellin ya, i'm going to regret hanging out on a logged irc channel. it's coming right back at me someday. |
| 18:14.18 | Peregrine | When do start campaigning for office? I will make sure that your ppl get copies first. You're welcome :D. |
| 18:15.49 | joshc | privacy isnt just for politicians.. |
| 18:16.47 | joshc | okay hans, the full winamp plays it |
| 18:16.50 | joshc | and i like it |
| 18:17.02 | hans | amazing for 1952 eh? |
| 18:17.07 | joshc | yes - very cool. |
| 18:17.13 | joshc | its german? |
| 18:17.25 | hans | yeah |
| 18:17.34 | hans | stockhausen was a pioneer in electronic music |
| 18:17.42 | joshc | that's great stuff. |
| 18:17.45 | hans | this of course was all done with tape. lots and lots of cut and pasted tape |
| 18:17.59 | Peregrine | Hmm..re-reading my long msg from a moment ago, it occurs to me that I should alter my media database app plans just a bit. I'm now thinking that I should implement an additional access mode via a network-based, pseudo-filesystem. Just mount the media stream of your choice. Any thoughts? |
| 18:18.17 | joshc | sounds too complicated peregrine |
| 18:18.30 | Peregrine | hmm |
| 18:18.42 | joshc | unless you just like doing complex things for fun |
| 18:18.47 | joshc | which is perfectly fine |
| 18:19.27 | joshc | but arent there like 3 zillion projects on sourceforge that are probably kind-of doing what you are planning? |
| 18:19.37 | Peregrine | Hey, I write db apps for pet projects. I even have a couple of computer progams to write on my hunny-do list. |
| 18:19.43 | joshc | hm. stockhausen. need more stockhausen.. |
| 18:20.07 | Peregrine | probably. But I haven't bothered to look at them (sf projects) too closely. |
| 18:20.57 | joshc | that's what the other 2.9 zillion people said before they started their own |
| 18:21.12 | Peregrine | joshc: u r right. |
| 18:21.18 | joshc | sorry - i'm being a downer. :-/ |
| 18:21.53 | Peregrine | not at all. |
| 18:22.04 | joshc | ok. :-) |
| 18:22.20 | joshc | anyway, i'm off to talk to my overpriced attorneys. |
| 18:22.22 | joshc | ttyl. |
| 18:22.25 | *** part/#utah joshc (~josh@jcoates.org) |
| 18:23.33 | tensai_ | what's with all the Debian security announcements today? |
| 18:24.06 | tensai_ | postgres, squid and python so far |
| 18:24.24 | tensai_ | ~lart stupid stupid stupid stupid actiontec |
| 18:31.17 | *** join/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.116) |
| 18:33.00 | *** join/#utah Ryan1 (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 18:36.50 | *** join/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.116) |
| 18:43.07 | *** join/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.116) |
| 18:52.00 | sjansen | ~praise PAM |
| 18:52.02 | ibot | All hail PAM! |
| 18:52.07 | sjansen | ~praise PAM |
| 18:52.09 | ibot | All hail PAM! |
| 18:52.14 | sjansen | ~praise PAM |
| 18:52.16 | ibot | All hail PAM! |
| 18:52.26 | sjansen | ~botsnack |
| 18:52.26 | ibot | :), sjansen |
| 18:53.57 | Peregrine | |lart stupid actiontek, too |
| 18:54.37 | Peregrine | :( |
| 18:55.06 | Peregrine | ~punt stupid actiontec DSL routers |
| 18:55.18 | Peregrine | :( |
| 18:55.26 | RyanE | no joy for the falcon |
| 18:55.54 | sjansen | ibot: punt $who is <action> send $who into a new timezone |
| 18:55.55 | ibot | sjansen: okay |
| 18:56.06 | sjansen | ~spell timezone |
| 18:56.07 | ibot | 'timezone' may be spelled correctly |
| 18:56.14 | sjansen | ibot: punt $who is <action> sends $who into a new timezone |
| 18:56.16 | ibot | ACTION send $who is <action> sends $who into a new timezone into a new timezone |
| 18:56.31 | sjansen | ibot: no punt $who is <action> sends $who into a new timezone |
| 18:56.32 | ibot | okay, sjansen |
| 18:57.07 | spr | ~punt sjansen |
| 18:57.09 | ibot | ACTION sends sjansen into a new timezone |
| 18:57.26 | Jayce^ | wow http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2691638,00.html |
| 18:57.29 | Jayce^ | now that's sad |
| 18:59.27 | sjansen | that's incredible |
| 18:59.51 | sjansen | sure, it was late, but come on |
| 19:00.12 | Jayce^ | they even offered to pay medical bills, but the lady sued anyways.. |
| 19:01.17 | sjansen | must be a sad life, she's gotta be a real witch to live in a rural area and think that "neighbors she had tangled with in the past" were out to get here |
| 19:01.20 | hans | oh my. " "Something bad could have happened to them," she said. ' |
| 19:01.39 | RyanE | something bad DID happen to them. |
| 19:01.57 | hans | what a wacko. no wonder she tangles with neighbors, if every good act is seen as an attack |
| 19:02.10 | Jayce^ | at least she didn't get 'suffering' damages |
| 19:02.37 | tensai_ | sounds like it's time for midnight deliveries of flaming poo |
| 19:02.56 | Jayce^ | oh yeah, if I lived there.. they'd be hating life |
| 19:03.04 | hans | it wasn't even the cookies, it was a knock on the door. |
| 19:03.38 | hans | If someone knocking on your door at 9pm can do that to you, then I hate to think what would happen if you spilled coffee on yourself at mcdonalds. |
| 19:04.22 | hans | "I'm not gloating about it. I just hope the girls learned a lesson." And what lesson would you have them learn? Stay away from you cuz you're a witch? |
| 19:04.30 | sjansen | Had something kinda like that happen when I was young. Lady didn't sue though, just chewed us out. |
| 19:04.49 | hans | well it's one thing for a bitter curmudgeon to chew someone out for being nice |
| 19:04.56 | hans | it's another entirely to take them to court |
| 19:04.57 | Jayce^ | see, people were justified when I was in their yard as a teenager... |
| 19:05.07 | Jayce^ | course, had plenty of TP, and was much later than 9 :) |
| 19:05.08 | sjansen | Lonely bitter old witch. And I generally try to avoid gender based insults. |
| 19:05.17 | tensai_ | hans: they knocked on her door about 10:30 |
| 19:05.33 | sjansen | her lights were on |
| 19:05.34 | Jayce^ | but the lights were on.. |
| 19:05.44 | Jayce^ | they specifically avoided people with lights out |
| 19:05.47 | sjansen | I think that's a reasonable precaution. |
| 19:05.51 | tensai_ | oh, I'm not saying she's not a loony |
| 19:06.26 | tensai_ | if it had been daylight she probably would have thrown cats at the girls |
| 19:07.02 | hans | so anyone up for a trip to durango? we can leave cookies at someone's house |
| 19:07.02 | Bradipo | Jayce^: Maybe she needs a taste of slashdot... |
| 19:07.07 | Bradipo | Has this story made it there yet? |
| 19:07.16 | Jayce^ | had some neighbors who I could see doing that... thank goodness the bank just foreclosed on them |
| 19:07.21 | Bradipo | I'm sure that there are plenty who would let her know what they really feel about her. |
| 19:07.29 | tensai_ | Jayce^: the sign people? |
| 19:07.48 | sjansen | Too bad there's not secure way to encourage people to send them money. I'd chip in $5. |
| 19:07.49 | Jayce^ | tensai_, nah, but they are moving finally, the ones behind us.. |
| 19:07.58 | Jayce^ | and in one month, my troubles all go away :) |
| 19:08.11 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, I dont' think it has.. |
| 19:08.26 | Bradipo | Kind of OT for /. |
| 19:08.44 | Jayce^ | sjansen, please do, got an empty house there now :) |
| 19:09.21 | tensai_ | Bradipo: not if michael gets ahold of it |
| 19:09.49 | sjansen | Now, the question is... how far will I be able to push Jayce^ before he shows me his gun collection in action. |
| 19:09.56 | Jayce^ | nah, micheal would agree with the witch lady |
| 19:10.08 | Jayce^ | get it to pudge though, he'd get it on right away |
| 19:10.26 | Jayce^ | sjansen, standard EQ activity in my neighborhood :) |
| 19:10.32 | tensai_ | so change the facts. they won't check before they post. make the cookies tux shaped. |
| 19:10.48 | sjansen | heh |
| 19:10.56 | tensai_ | Jayce^: EQ == Everquest? I'm telling your bishop |
| 19:11.06 | Jayce^ | nah, I'm a WoW guy :) |
| 19:12.45 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@67-137-128-172.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 19:16.33 | Peregrine | sjansen is just itchin' to be a WoW guy. |
| 19:16.38 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 19:16.56 | Jayce^ | lesse, sjansen as a 'gnome warrior' |
| 19:16.58 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 19:17.19 | Peregrine | ~punt stupid actiontec DSL routers |
| 19:17.21 | ibot | ACTION sends stupid actiontec DSL routers into a new timezone |
| 19:18.00 | Peregrine | Jayce^: lol. |
| 19:18.11 | Peregrine | sorry, sjansen. |
| 19:18.34 | Peregrine | Jayce^: btw: this is Lamont. |
| 19:18.36 | hans | sjansen is definitely a gnome |
| 19:18.49 | sjansen | Jayce^: Actually, I'd probably choose a gnome warrior, or something similar. |
| 19:19.04 | Jayce^ | right |
| 19:19.30 | sjansen | Although, to be accurate I might have to be half-breed gnome/troll. ;-) |
| 19:19.39 | Jayce^ | doesn't let ya do that.. |
| 19:21.51 | Jayce^ | sjansen, you'd like it though, troll's do capoeira :) |
| 19:22.43 | tensai_ | regex question. why wouldn't this regex: ^[\s>]*X-ASG-Debug-ID:\s*(\d{10}-\d+-\d+-\d+) |
| 19:22.47 | tensai_ | match this line: X-ASG-Debug-ID: Â 1107250962-20032-504-0 |
| 19:24.01 | Jayce^ | what's the effect of the \s> |
| 19:24.02 | sjansen | perl? |
| 19:24.12 | tensai_ | yes, perl |
| 19:24.12 | Jayce^ | procmail? |
| 19:24.27 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 19:24.31 | tensai_ | Jayce^: something like that |
| 19:24.54 | tensai_ | needs to handle emails that have been forwarded |
| 19:25.02 | tensai_ | I'm looking for that specific header |
| 19:25.17 | Jayce^ | using Mail::Audit?? |
| 19:25.32 | tensai_ | no |
| 19:25.54 | Jayce^ | should check it out, good when you want to filter mail in perl, but anyways, back to the reges |
| 19:25.55 | Jayce^ | regex |
| 19:25.56 | tensai_ | well, maybe. actually I don't know. my code doesn't anyway. |
| 19:26.04 | Jayce^ | trying to remember what the \s> |
| 19:26.44 | tensai_ | character class of whitespace and '>' |
| 19:26.56 | sjansen | ho ho ho, orange chicken (and maybe some hot and sour soup) |
| 19:27.06 | tensai_ | so if the message is forwarded with > at the front it'll still match |
| 19:28.49 | Jayce^ | ahh, wasn't sure if it was being used as a modifier, like ?> |
| 19:29.04 | Jayce^ | if it's just the class, then yeah, great.. optional space or > char |
| 19:29.07 | Jayce^ | at the beginning |
| 19:30.34 | *** join/#utah macnerv (macnerv@65-100-255-153.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 19:30.42 | tensai_ | I've tried it with and without. doesn't seem to make a difference. |
| 19:30.47 | Jayce^ | tensai_, try the following |
| 19:30.49 | Jayce^ | perl -e 'use re debugcolor; $s = "X-ASG-Debug-ID: Â 1107250962-20032-504-0"; $s =~ m/^[\s>]*X-ASG-Debug-ID:\s*(\d{10}-\d+-\d+-\d+)/' |
| 19:30.53 | Jayce^ | should help |
| 19:31.05 | bucky | Brigham Young University has been dealt a serious setback by the Utah Supreme Court in its long effort to collect licensing royalties from a long-defunct software company and its alleged successors |
| 19:31.27 | Jayce^ | looks like it's the Â, probably dealing with your locale |
| 19:31.59 | tensai_ | there's an Â? |
| 19:32.08 | Jayce^ | there is in what you pasted to me :) |
| 19:32.17 | Jayce^ | that's how it came through |
| 19:32.22 | tensai_ | ok, maybe that's the problem. I don't see it. where? |
| 19:32.39 | Jayce^ | look in the string, just after the \s after the : |
| 19:32.43 | RyanE | I don't see it either, stupid UTF-8 character encoding... :) |
| 19:32.45 | Jayce^ | it's a non-digit char |
| 19:32.55 | Jayce^ | so your regex fails, as it should |
| 19:32.59 | Jayce^ | something utf in there |
| 19:33.49 | Jayce^ | if perl 5.8 , you could use a utf-8, or easier, just do a wild-char in that position... for me, I see a ' Â ' from your paste |
| 19:34.37 | macnerv | mmmmmmm subways..... |
| 19:34.41 | *** join/#utah sjansen-treo (~upirc@001-787-184.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 19:34.47 | *** join/#utah joshc (~josh@jcoates.org) |
| 19:34.51 | RyanE | mmmmm... Homemade lasagne leftovers... |
| 19:35.39 | Jayce^ | homemade pork chops, breaded, with peach glaze, mashed potatos with herb butter... side of peaches |
| 19:35.51 | joshc | stop it |
| 19:35.55 | joshc | the lot of you |
| 19:35.59 | joshc | i'm hungry |
| 19:36.03 | Jayce^ | hehe :) |
| 19:36.11 | joshc | and have no anti-hunger substances handy |
| 19:36.21 | RyanE | you picked the wrong time. |
| 19:36.25 | Jayce^ | you missed out on real assistance in the channel joshc, just in time for food critiquing |
| 19:36.58 | joshc | i hopped b/c i just read the latest post on the utah religion/politics thread |
| 19:37.13 | Jayce^ | you also missed out on our rant about society |
| 19:37.13 | hans | mm, homemade green posole |
| 19:37.23 | joshc | darn |
| 19:37.29 | Jayce^ | http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2691638,00.html for those that missed out |
| 19:37.55 | hans | bucky: what would that be? |
| 19:38.04 | fozz | I love being paid to watch Star Wars. |
| 19:38.16 | Jayce^ | fozz? |
| 19:38.25 | fozz | Got invited to the IDI movie today. |
| 19:38.31 | Jayce^ | ahh |
| 19:38.33 | fozz | Lunch is provided too. |
| 19:38.52 | Jayce^ | fozz, say hi to mark H for me :) |
| 19:38.53 | hans | ~lart fozz |
| 19:39.00 | bonez41 | fozz: what's the IDI movie? |
| 19:39.05 | fozz | Ep. 6 |
| 19:39.16 | fozz | 6.2, I should say. |
| 19:39.19 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 19:39.20 | joshc | is eric jensen in the house? |
| 19:39.39 | Jayce^ | just a guess, it's erj :) |
| 19:39.51 | fozz | Might not be the same one. I thnk we've got a couple in PLUG |
| 19:39.52 | joshc | must be him |
| 19:39.55 | joshc | maybe |
| 19:40.08 | bucky | hans, http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_2551427 |
| 19:40.10 | joshc | he spells it with a k - erik |
| 19:40.33 | joshc | he just said something silly in his last post: |
| 19:40.36 | Jayce^ | hrm, yeah |
| 19:40.39 | joshc | "the idea of enforcing morals of any kind is unjust." |
| 19:40.53 | bucky | Jayce^, i used to leave a wet paper grocery bag of cow manure on the neighbors porch |
| 19:40.59 | joshc | lol |
| 19:41.28 | joshc | is the same as saying "anyone who makes declarations is wrong." |
| 19:41.37 | bucky | my uncle used to come out and take pot shots at us in the dark with his 3030 |
| 19:41.42 | Jayce^ | 99% of statistics are made up |
| 19:41.51 | joshc | right on. |
| 19:42.01 | joshc | nice uncle |
| 19:42.06 | RyanE | well, gotta do some 'real' work now. I hate it when that happens. Later. |
| 19:42.09 | *** part/#utah RyanE (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:42.20 | bucky | he was a crazy old cowboy.. he didn't know it was us |
| 19:42.41 | bucky | couldn't shoot |
| 19:42.44 | joshc | crazy AND old? |
| 19:42.47 | bucky | lousy aim |
| 19:43.10 | Jayce^ | nothing is quite as invigorating as being shot at.. |
| 19:43.12 | bucky | night blind |
| 19:43.20 | bucky | cheap thrills |
| 19:43.29 | joshc | i've never been shot at. with real bullets anyways. |
| 19:44.17 | tensai_ | I've been shot over and that alone was pretty freaky |
| 19:44.27 | bucky | well Durango is one of those dangerous tourist towns |
| 19:44.54 | bucky | and 10:30 is too late for teenage girls to be out |
| 19:44.54 | joshc | did it land on you? |
| 19:45.06 | joshc | depends on how old, dontcha think |
| 19:45.22 | Jayce^ | been shot 'around' with real bullets... drunk poacher saw a bush move (me).. |
| 19:45.34 | joshc | yikes. |
| 19:45.39 | Jayce^ | thankfully not too drunk to wonder why the bush stood up and started yelling.. |
| 19:45.42 | bucky | and baking cookies for people unless sanctioned by a religious org should be outlawed |
| 19:45.56 | joshc | my mom cant bake me cookies? |
| 19:46.13 | joshc | so jayce, didya punch him in the nose? |
| 19:46.23 | bucky | she can bake you cookies.. but she can't leave them on your porch |
| 19:46.45 | Jayce^ | no, big redneck with a gun... me little high schooler with a slingshot.. |
| 19:46.45 | joshc | unless they are in a paper bag, on fire |
| 19:47.00 | hans | bucky: remind me never to be nice to you |
| 19:47.02 | tensai_ | Jayce^: you've never read the Bible? |
| 19:47.08 | joshc | so did you kick him in the shins? |
| 19:47.28 | Jayce^ | tensai_, yeah, I just knew I wasn't an 'anointed one' at the time :) |
| 19:47.34 | bucky | joshc, that's what you do to the paper bag full of manure.. set it on fire and ring the door bell |
| 19:47.38 | tensai_ | heh |
| 19:47.45 | Jayce^ | hrm, maybe I was.. anointed to be king of plug :-p |
| 19:47.52 | joshc | oh. i thought thats what you did with a paper bag full of cookies. |
| 19:48.09 | tensai_ | no, no. lit bags of cookies go through the window |
| 19:48.14 | joshc | ah. |
| 19:48.14 | bucky | that's a waste of good cookies |
| 19:48.37 | bucky | we don't deliver cookies door to door here |
| 19:48.48 | bucky | we get enough left overs from funerals |
| 19:48.59 | joshc | where is here? |
| 19:49.05 | bucky | we live weeks at a time on left over funeral food |
| 19:49.32 | bucky | joshc, guess |
| 19:49.38 | joshc | um...utah? |
| 19:49.43 | bucky | warm |
| 19:49.54 | joshc | arizona? |
| 19:49.56 | bucky | yes in utah.. more specific |
| 19:49.59 | joshc | ah |
| 19:50.06 | joshc | well, your isp has moab in it |
| 19:50.08 | bucky | you can see arizona from here |
| 19:50.15 | joshc | er no |
| 19:50.17 | joshc | it just has mob |
| 19:50.19 | joshc | nm. |
| 19:50.23 | joshc | you live in st. george? |
| 19:50.23 | bucky | 77 miles south of moab |
| 19:50.35 | joshc | hurry-kin? |
| 19:50.48 | Peregrine | have to grade cert. l8r all. |
| 19:50.49 | bucky | st george is on the other side of the state where all the polygamists live |
| 19:50.51 | *** part/#utah Peregrine (~lamontp@h-68-165-180-10.lsanca54.covad.net) |
| 19:51.05 | joshc | peregrines dont ride |
| 19:51.33 | joshc | i'm not too good w/ utah geography quite yet |
| 19:51.47 | joshc | and i dont know where all the polygamy hotspots are |
| 19:51.57 | bucky | nobody in utah is good w/ utah geography |
| 19:52.10 | JoshH | ive been to that area to hunt |
| 19:52.17 | bucky | brigham young sent all the people he didn't like out here |
| 19:52.19 | hans | blanding! |
| 19:52.23 | JoshH | by monticello, blanding, hanksville, etc |
| 19:52.23 | joshc | lol |
| 19:52.24 | bucky | yup |
| 19:52.31 | bucky | hans got it |
| 19:52.41 | hans | ~dance |
| 19:52.42 | ibot | "ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' alive, stayin' alive" |
| 19:52.48 | JoshH | bucky: lots of linux people in that town? |
| 19:52.54 | bucky | just one |
| 19:52.57 | fungus | I am sorry, blanding sounds... well... bland. |
| 19:52.57 | JoshH | heh |
| 19:53.04 | joshc | so does fungus |
| 19:53.09 | JoshH | fungus: its definitely not a bustling urban center |
| 19:53.11 | hans | why is blanding a funeral capital? I know a lot of old people chill in st george... |
| 19:53.29 | bucky | it's a delcining population i guess |
| 19:54.53 | hans | well I can see that |
| 19:55.15 | hans | we used to drive through blanding all the time on the way from NM |
| 19:55.22 | hans | to visit happy valley |
| 19:55.42 | bucky | from where.. albuquerque ? |
| 19:55.55 | sjansen-treo | yum, hot AND sour |
| 19:57.08 | bucky | we're 357 miles from albuquerque |
| 19:57.15 | bucky | and 310 from slc |
| 19:57.35 | hans | santafe |
| 19:57.57 | bucky | were you a student there? |
| 19:58.06 | hans | nope, grew up there |
| 19:58.11 | bucky | ic |
| 19:59.55 | bucky | whats up cuz! |
| 20:00.18 | Jayce^ | never been there, but knew some people from there... one of them likely to use irc |
| 20:00.47 | hans | bucky: we had friends from that area. well their dad was anyway. laws |
| 20:01.03 | bucky | the laws, yep |
| 20:01.53 | bucky | no... nobody knows me... in this town you are punished for doing anything outside of the "norm" |
| 20:02.10 | bucky | and that includes using microsoft |
| 20:02.26 | bucky | you got to be a microsoft zombie |
| 20:02.39 | hans | anything I know about blanding aside from what I learned by driving through it I learned from the Laws |
| 20:02.49 | bucky | my in law duke works for micron |
| 20:03.23 | bucky | i built a computer for my mom and put mandrake on it with mplayer so it could play wmvs |
| 20:03.41 | bucky | i come back in a month and Duke put winXP on it |
| 20:04.55 | bucky | and my other ex in law Gordon Morrell is some computer guy there in happy valley |
| 20:06.00 | sjansen-treo | did your mother say why the computer was changed? |
| 20:06.36 | bucky | the extension college here, CEU is all ads and it doesn't work and everybody here is paid $60k a year even though they can't make it work |
| 20:07.56 | bucky | sjansen-treo, i never did get to the bottom of that |
| 20:08.37 | bucky | my mom is 70.. she's pretty sharp tho but she never had a computer before |
| 20:09.22 | hans | bucky: now I imagine you as bucky katt in blanding with a 10-gallon hat |
| 20:09.30 | bucky | that's me |
| 20:13.35 | bucky | yep, my mom's computer is sitting over there with a demo version of prevx that can't be updated |
| 20:14.21 | bucky | she pays $20 a month for dial up and never uses it |
| 20:15.15 | bucky | except for that email i fetched for her from my uncle in saudi the other day... it doesn't get used much |
| 20:18.22 | bucky | so Wanita Renea Young won a lawsuit because two teenage girls left cookies on her doorstep at 10:30 PM and it scared her so bad she went to the emergency room the next day |
| 20:18.34 | Jayce^ | bucky, yup |
| 20:18.50 | bucky | no good deed goes unpunished |
| 20:20.41 | sjansen-treo | ~slap bucky |
| 20:20.43 | ibot | ACTION slaps bucky, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 20:22.31 | *** part/#utah sjansen-treo (~upirc@001-787-184.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 20:28.13 | *** join/#utah idiot (~idiot@205.208.245.113) |
| 20:28.37 | bucky | Jayce^, you prolly know my cousins |
| 20:28.50 | Jayce^ | Byrds ? |
| 20:28.58 | bucky | one is in the CS program at YBU now |
| 20:29.02 | bucky | blakes |
| 20:29.29 | Jayce^ | dunno, don't go to the Y |
| 20:30.14 | bucky | another one just left UVCC |
| 20:30.45 | bucky | the others all went to work in IT |
| 20:40.01 | Jayce^ | buddha. |
| 20:40.52 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 20:47.13 | brailsmt | is there an HTML tag for a dropdown listbox? |
| 20:47.42 | sjansen | do you mean just a select? |
| 20:48.04 | brailsmt | yeah |
| 20:48.07 | brailsmt | i just found it... |
| 20:48.21 | sjansen | html form widgets are very limited |
| 20:48.48 | brailsmt | now if I use a select, can the user edit the field too? |
| 20:49.09 | sjansen | nope |
| 20:49.32 | sjansen | if you want something like that, you'll have to create your own using javascript |
| 20:49.43 | sjansen | something like what google has with google suggest |
| 20:50.11 | Jayce^ | or do the usual method of dropdown -or- fill in this textbox |
| 20:50.24 | sjansen | unless you can find one pre-made and well tested, I promise you it'll be a pain |
| 20:50.56 | hans | what ever happened to xforms? |
| 20:51.06 | hans | wasn't that supposed to be the silver bullet? |
| 20:51.09 | sjansen | mozilla didn't think it was worth implementing |
| 20:51.30 | sjansen | it's gathered some steam within the mozilla project, but nothing remarkable |
| 20:51.38 | sjansen | there are some minor commercial implementations of it |
| 20:55.47 | hans | it looked promising, back when I was doing web stuff |
| 20:56.08 | Jayce^ | yes, it'll kick the crap out of existing html forms, but not until people can actually use it.. |
| 20:58.08 | levi | Did everyone see the shopping cart at panic.com? |
| 20:58.16 | *** join/#utah DallinJones (~dallin@208.186.180.204) |
| 20:58.44 | *** part/#utah DallinJones (~dallin@208.186.180.204) |
| 21:02.33 | bucky | levi, very impressive.. just drag and drop to the bottom of the screen |
| 21:02.55 | bucky | netcraft says it's runnig MacOSX |
| 21:03.46 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@translate.sento.com) |
| 21:06.14 | bucky | Jayce^, that durango story has made it on to reuters |
| 21:06.15 | bucky | http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=7543994 |
| 21:06.20 | Jayce^ | cool |
| 21:10.20 | joshc | we're sorry, this story is unavailable |
| 21:10.44 | joshc | bad link or its hosed er something |
| 21:10.47 | joshc | baleeted |
| 21:10.55 | Jayce^ | WFM |
| 21:10.58 | Jayce^ | (worked for me) |
| 21:11.05 | joshc | i must be lame |
| 21:11.07 | Jayce^ | must be your OS joshc :) |
| 21:11.26 | joshc | i reloaded and it came up |
| 21:11.35 | joshc | their server musta hiccup'd |
| 21:11.40 | Jayce^ | pebcak |
| 21:11.57 | joshc | my sad os |
| 21:12.14 | joshc | that story was on drudgereport |
| 21:12.23 | Jayce^ | right |
| 21:12.48 | joshc | one of my favorite sensationlizing news aggregators |
| 21:12.59 | Jayce^ | conservative rumor central :-p |
| 21:13.08 | Jayce^ | wish he's get some better HTML though |
| 21:13.17 | Jayce^ | he'd |
| 21:13.44 | hans | i were gonna to wish you're have better grammar, ok Jayce^ . |
| 21:14.15 | Jayce^ | it's friday, not exactly paying attention to my typing :) |
| 21:15.17 | sjansen | D'oh! |
| 21:15.36 | sjansen | I tested the mailman redirects ten ways from Tuesday and forgot to click on the stupid links at the top of plug.org. |
| 21:15.57 | Jayce^ | hans, how hard will it be to copy those archives in? just copy the mbox files? |
| 21:16.08 | Jayce^ | maybe just merge january? |
| 21:18.08 | hans | Jayce^: looks like a simple copy and merge january |
| 21:18.58 | Jayce^ | cool |
| 21:19.23 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (bradipo@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 21:19.41 | Jayce^ | oh, anybody checked, reverse dns should be going on it |
| 21:19.58 | hans | fugalh@gwythaint:~$ host 63.108.71.211 |
| 21:19.59 | hans | Host 211.71.108.63.in-addr.arpa not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) |
| 21:20.07 | hans | ~nslookup 63.108.71.211 |
| 21:20.13 | Jayce^ | hrm |
| 21:21.02 | Bradipo | There are some delegation problems with that zone. |
| 21:22.02 | Bradipo | ns1.northsky.com says NXDOMAIN. |
| 21:22.24 | Bradipo | And auth100.ns.uu.net redirects the query back to the root servers. |
| 21:22.45 | Bradipo | Those are the two NS servers for the 71.108.63.in-addr.arpa zone. |
| 21:23.59 | Jayce^ | host 63.108.71.211 |
| 21:24.00 | Jayce^ | 211.71.108.63.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer plug.org. |
| 21:24.18 | Jayce^ | just restarted daemon, think it might not have had it updated |
| 21:24.30 | sjansen | working here too |
| 21:24.36 | Bradipo | dig @auth100.ns.uu.net ptr 211.71.108.63.in-addr.arpa |
| 21:24.53 | Bradipo | dig @ns1.northsky.com ptr 211.71.108.63.in-addr.arpa |
| 21:25.11 | Bradipo | So, now ns1.northsky.com seems to be giving an answer. |
| 21:25.18 | Bradipo | But the secondary loops you back to the roots. |
| 21:25.45 | Bradipo | So, you have a 50/50 chance of getting an answer. |
| 21:26.13 | hans | ~nslookup 63.108.71.211 |
| 21:27.01 | Bradipo | http://www.zonecut.net/dns/index.cgi?domain=71.108.63.in-addr.arpa |
| 21:27.07 | Bradipo | Gives you a pretty description. |
| 21:28.03 | *** join/#utah orbit (~hanksdc_n@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 21:28.20 | Bradipo | Man, in-addr.arp can be such a mess. |
| 21:32.16 | Bradipo | 198.6.1.202 is lame. |
| 21:32.26 | Bradipo | ANd 63.108.71.3 appears to be down. |
| 21:39.10 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@208.187.115.4) |
| 21:39.20 | bucky | wow, checkout the search term 'dyndns.org' in their DNS Bajaj |
| 21:39.35 | bucky | purty pictures |
| 21:40.26 | Bradipo | Almost. |
| 21:40.29 | Bradipo | They got one lone ranger there. |
| 21:40.55 | bucky | hmm... yup |
| 21:42.35 | hans | hrmm |
| 21:42.55 | hans | stupid script hosed the archives we already had. now I have to export them from my personal collection. |
| 21:43.11 | Bradipo | Haha. |
| 21:43.24 | Bradipo | I have a personal collection that goes back 10,000 messages. |
| 21:43.26 | Bradipo | That's about it. |
| 21:43.35 | hans | we just need since jan1 |
| 21:43.54 | hans | actually just kidding. since the end of january (when we switched) |
| 21:44.00 | hans | so, basically two threads. ;-) |
| 21:47.26 | hans | ~hugg mutt |
| 21:47.47 | hans | one well crafted search on List-Id and I have precisely the messages I need |
| 21:47.58 | hans | so there, it was useful. :-P |
| 21:51.51 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 21:56.31 | hans | behold the archives grow |
| 21:57.03 | sjansen | yay! |
| 21:57.10 | emcnabb | yay! |
| 21:57.29 | hans | all the way through may 2005, thanks to fozz |
| 21:57.43 | Jayce^ | bam |
| 21:57.46 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 21:58.01 | Jayce^ | want to fix that one while you're there :-p |
| 21:58.14 | vontrapp | fozz needs fixin |
| 21:58.15 | hans | what, falsify evidence? |
| 21:58.31 | hans | or I guess it would be destroying evidence. |
| 21:58.44 | orbit | Hrm: http://plug.org/pipermail/plug/2005-February/000125.html |
| 21:58.56 | orbit | seeing a lot of those as I browse through the archives. |
| 21:59.12 | hans | hrm |
| 21:59.45 | hans | seems to be related to signed messges. |
| 21:59.56 | Jayce^ | yup |
| 22:00.24 | Jayce^ | same thing that outlook user complained about |
| 22:00.28 | mrpull | \\cronus\group$\Customer Service\DataCenterCabinet |
| 22:00.38 | Jayce^ | really |
| 22:00.44 | mrpull | whooooppsy |
| 22:00.49 | hans | well, the same reason |
| 22:01.04 | hans | for some reason this archiving script is ignoring that kind of mime part |
| 22:01.08 | vontrapp | hmm, i don't see anything in may |
| 22:01.14 | hans | it's still running |
| 22:01.18 | sjansen | well there we go, if joshc would sign his message he'd be safe from archiving ;-) |
| 22:01.20 | Jayce^ | doesn't have a problem on mine |
| 22:01.36 | Jayce^ | doesn't like sjansen, mcnabb's, or hans |
| 22:01.39 | Jayce^ | mutt? |
| 22:03.24 | hans | vontrapp: http://www.plug.org/pipermail/plug/2005-May/thread.html |
| 22:03.43 | hans | heh, "Not long ago" |
| 22:04.14 | Jayce^ | poetic :) |
| 22:04.19 | vontrapp | but i don't see anything in may on the list directly |
| 22:04.24 | hans | especially since it's in the future |
| 22:04.47 | vontrapp | i guess my mutt doesn't support time travel? |
| 22:06.19 | vontrapp | actually, how long ago was that message? |
| 22:06.26 | hans | that's probably because you don't have archives back to may 2004 |
| 22:06.31 | vontrapp | i may have changed the date on it long ago since it was so annoying |
| 22:10.42 | hans | wow, plug is fast now |
| 22:11.25 | orbit | www.plug.org |
| 22:11.28 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 22:11.33 | orbit | heh, wrong window. |
| 22:11.53 | *** join/#utah Maquis (~Maquis@128.187.244.16) |
| 22:12.21 | Jayce^ | chugga chugga chugga |
| 22:12.36 | sjansen | The script actually altered the raw messages! |
| 22:12.40 | sjansen | How stupid is that? |
| 22:12.52 | Maquis | sjansen: huh? |
| 22:13.14 | sjansen | Maquis: Well duh! |
| 22:13.44 | Jayce^ | anybody got an extra slot loading P733 for orodruin :) |
| 22:14.49 | hans | what do you mean? |
| 22:15.04 | Jayce^ | it's only got one in it, can have two |
| 22:15.10 | orbit | pricewatch.com: $25 |
| 22:15.28 | hans | sjansen: what do you mean? |
| 22:16.01 | sjansen | download the raw mbox archive, the messages it had problems with don't have the original connect, just the ignored message |
| 22:17.18 | hans | hrmm |
| 22:17.30 | sjansen | Jayce^: Might be time to call in those pledges to upgrade the hardware. I promised $20. |
| 22:17.38 | Jayce^ | true |
| 22:17.53 | Newsome | Jayce^: I'll donate a little to get the other processor |
| 22:17.57 | Jayce^ | my place already doubled the ram, the chip wouldn't be hard.. |
| 22:18.21 | Jayce^ | sjansen, just your and emcnabb's pledges would cover that chip, if you want to grab one, I can install it |
| 22:19.20 | hans | sjansen: they don't seem to be valid mbox files either. |
| 22:19.25 | hans | mutt can't read them, in any case. |
| 22:19.39 | hans | but it can read what mhandy copied over. |
| 22:19.59 | hans | well, it's just a dumb script I guess. all the more reason to move. :) |
| 22:20.07 | orbit | Are there gaps that are still needed to be filled in the archives? |
| 22:20.12 | hans | new mails with signatures work though. |
| 22:20.25 | hans | orbit pre-feb2002 |
| 22:20.27 | Jayce^ | orbit, mike is getting the really old archives off the really old box this weekend |
| 22:20.39 | Jayce^ | unless you have all those.. :) |
| 22:21.19 | sjansen | orbit: we also had some problem with really, really new messages |
| 22:21.52 | orbit | Earliest I have without more digging is June 2001. |
| 22:22.10 | orbit | Might have some others tucked away in an old Netscape mail mbox somewhere |
| 22:23.10 | Newsome | I wonder what I did with the even older stuff. |
| 22:23.49 | hans | earliest I have is mar 2000 |
| 22:24.06 | hans | and that's _mostly_ complete. I occasionally delete _really_ dumb messages or duplicates. |
| 22:25.20 | Jayce^ | I don't think mike has anything before the switch to mailman.. anybody remember when that was? |
| 22:25.27 | Jayce^ | anything before that would be needed |
| 22:26.05 | hans | after 2000. it was petidomo then. |
| 22:26.24 | hans | looks like dec 6 2002 |
| 22:26.35 | *** join/#utah RyanE (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:26.42 | Jayce^ | hans, posting to both lists 'eh? |
| 22:26.59 | RyanE | twice to each list. |
| 22:27.02 | hans | I just hit list-reply |
| 22:27.28 | Jayce^ | I thought dec 6th was just when we moved servers, not software |
| 22:27.29 | sjansen | <hans> and that's _mostly_ complete. I occasionally delete _really_ dumb messages or duplicates. |
| 22:27.41 | Jayce^ | coruscant to naboo |
| 22:27.44 | Jayce^ | sjansen++ |
| 22:27.48 | hans | yeah, I thought that was ironic too. :) |
| 22:27.55 | Bradipo | Haha, my oldest PLUG email dates back to 7/2003, which means we have had over 10000 messages since then. |
| 22:28.26 | hans | Jayce^: a message from 5 dec has petidomo headers. 6 dec is the welcome message |
| 22:28.33 | Jayce^ | k |
| 22:29.02 | RyanE | In XSLT, is there a way to have a xsl:value-of value replaced by a value from some kind of lookup? i.e. if the value-of is 'PH', instead put in 'Phone', if 'EM', put in 'Email'? |
| 22:30.38 | *** join/#utah xilch (~xilch@66.239.17.228.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:32.47 | hans | sweet. looks like I get to hack hylafax to do what we need |
| 22:33.18 | markl__ | heh i remember hylafax |
| 22:33.36 | markl__ | quite an enjoyable program once you get it running |
| 22:34.38 | hans | yeah. I've got it running now. been sending and receiving faxes all day. fun. now I have to hack it to recognize the dtmf tones and route stuff based on dtmf tones. |
| 22:35.00 | hans | http://groups-beta.google.com/group/fa.hylafax/browse_thread/thread/76d10c9ee5ef73f4/3523acb924fcbf84?q=hylafax++dtmf+routing&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fq%3Dhylafax++dtmf+routing%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2coff%3D1%26client%3Dfirefox%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:unofficial%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#3523acb924fcbf84 |
| 22:35.06 | hans | ~lart google groups |
| 22:35.31 | markl__ | tinyurl.com |
| 22:36.10 | hans | *shrug* |
| 22:36.19 | hans | sjansen will frown, but other than that no harm |
| 22:46.43 | *** join/#utah jalance_ (~jalance@208.187.115.4) |
| 22:49.03 | bonez41 | I need to switch my pluglist mail to come to a different mail box..how do I do this? |
| 22:49.33 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 22:49.42 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 22:50.06 | tensai | bonez39: unsubscribe the old one, subscribe the new one |
| 22:50.23 | bonez41 | just 'unsubscribe' on the subject line, or in body? |
| 22:51.12 | bonez41 | hans: faxing with hylafax...does it use a wired line, or just your net connection? |
| 22:54.10 | tensai | bonez41: go to http://orodruin.plug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plug |
| 22:54.28 | bonez41 | tensai: thanks |
| 22:55.21 | bonez41 | tensai: who runs that list for PLUG? |
| 22:55.38 | bonez41 | tensai: I am still struggling to figure out why my Mailman installation won't work... |
| 22:56.52 | tensai | I think hans has been handling it lately |
| 22:59.01 | sjansen | but don't say that too loudly because he's probably getting sick of it |
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| 23:39.39 | sjansen | morons |
| 23:40.04 | sjansen | I order a mini-PCI wireless card. So they send me a PCI USB expander. |
| 23:40.20 | vontrapp | sjansen: what card? |
| 23:40.24 | vontrapp | did you find one that will work? |
| 23:40.43 | sjansen | bg2200 from HP |
| 23:40.55 | vontrapp | what chipset is that? |
| 23:41.04 | sjansen | I found it on HP's site, but not on hpshopping, guess I know why. |
| 23:41.15 | sjansen | intel something or other |
| 23:41.19 | emcnabb | at least you haven't had to deal with Merrill Lynch's online banking site.... |
| 23:41.34 | sjansen | I even confirmed multiple times "this is mini-PCI intel wireless card?" |
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| 23:54.09 | mheath | Hurd-L4 = working :) |
| 23:54.10 | mheath | Mmm. |
