| 00:06.54 | brailsmt_ | mheath: try tomsrtbt... |
| 00:06.55 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 00:07.14 | mheath | brailsmt_: please tell me your joking :D |
| 00:07.49 | mheath | I'm installing a complete OS that includes X Windows and a sane development environment. You're telling me to install whats meant to be a limited rescue floppy :D |
| 00:07.51 | brailsmt_ | it *will* fit on 130MB |
| 00:08.10 | mheath | So will NetBSD. |
| 00:08.17 | findlay | mheath: why not BSD? |
| 00:08.25 | brailsmt_ | why not gentoo? |
| 00:08.31 | mheath | findlay: I'm installing NetBSD. |
| 00:08.41 | findlay | why not linuxfromscratch? |
| 00:08.46 | mheath | Haha. |
| 00:09.01 | findlay | why not DOS? |
| 00:09.23 | findlay | that'll fit under 130 Kb |
| 00:09.29 | brailsmt_ | why not write your own OS? |
| 00:09.34 | findlay | teah |
| 00:09.47 | findlay | reinvent the scratch |
| 00:09.52 | mheath | I was tempted to install Amoeba :) |
| 00:10.05 | findlay | or whatever |
| 00:10.19 | brailsmt_ | why no9t solaris10? |
| 00:10.49 | brailsmt_ | why not... |
| 00:10.55 | brailsmt_ | ...uhmmm |
| 00:11.24 | findlay | VMS? |
| 00:11.25 | brigham | VMS is /V-M-S/ n. DEC's proprietary operating system for its VAX minicomputer; one of the seven or so environments that loom largest in hacker folklore. Many UNIX fans generously concede that VMS would probably be the hacker's favorite commercial OS if UNIX didn't exist; though true, See: VMS2 |
| 00:12.24 | brailsmt_ | if UNIX didn't exist, linux would still be the hackers favorite :) |
| 00:12.53 | hans | VMS2? |
| 00:12.54 | brigham | VMS2 is this makes VMS fans furious. One major hacker gripe with VMS concerns its slowness --- thus the following limerick There once was a system called VMS Of cycles by no means abstemious. It's chock-full of hacks And runs on a VAX And makes See: VMS3 |
| 00:13.21 | hans | 'VMS3 |
| 00:13.22 | brigham | VMS3 is my poor stomach all squeamious. --- The Great Quux See also {VAX}, {{TOPS-10}}, {{TOPS-20}}, {{UNIX}}, {runic} |
| 00:22.42 | *** join/#utah EC1 (~ecs@ecs-dell.byu.edu) |
| 00:22.54 | EC1 | |lart Maquis |
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| 00:31.50 | goozbach | tripwire --check takes all day long |
| 00:34.56 | macnewbold | <PROTECTED> |
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| 00:37.20 | macnewbold | doh... pasted the wrong line |
| 00:37.26 | macnewbold | http://www.anthonychavez.org/images/haxorpc.jpg |
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| 01:09.13 | findlay | must go do homework |
| 01:09.20 | tene | go kill a policeman. that'll make your life much more exciting for a while. |
| 01:09.46 | findlay | and save on power utils, so... |
| 01:10.13 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 01:11.19 | fozz | tene: I sense some bitterness. Did offing that cop cause you some stress? |
| 01:11.22 | fozz | ;-) |
| 01:11.26 | sjansen | Just for the benefit of all carnivore enabled feds out there: #utah doesn't actually endorse the killing of our noble police force. We only endorse the ruthless elimination of commies... er, terrorists. |
| 01:12.12 | tene | that's what I meant by "cop" |
| 01:12.18 | tene | it's slang for "terrorist" |
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| 01:12.23 | fozz | heh heh. |
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| 01:37.17 | emcnabb-treo | yo |
| 01:37.26 | sjansen{isCool} | yo-ster to the max-ster |
| 01:38.14 | emcnabb-treo | sjansen, Michael Golden says hi |
| 01:38.28 | sjansen{isCool} | tell him hi-ster for me-ster |
| 01:39.24 | emcnabb-treo | are you smoking anything? |
| 01:39.49 | sjansen{isCool} | emcnabb-treo: you tried lighting the putty on fire yet? |
| 01:40.13 | emcnabb-treo | no |
| 01:43.13 | Maquis | emcnabb-treo: how's the class going? |
| 01:43.37 | emcnabb-treo | fine |
| 01:43.49 | Maquis | any good stories? |
| 01:44.15 | emcnabb-treo | not really |
| 01:44.25 | Maquis | too bad... |
| 01:45.21 | emcnabb-treo | later |
| 01:45.22 | *** part/#utah emcnabb-treo (~upirc@032-252-079.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 01:45.36 | Maquis | emcnabb left again :( |
| 01:59.26 | Maquis | ~huffman |
| 01:59.37 | Maquis | ibot? |
| 01:59.37 | brigham | ibot is a silly bot |
| 01:59.52 | sjansen{isCool} | brigham is a jerk |
| 02:00.01 | Maquis | apparently, ibot doesn't know enough to help me understand what i'm reading... |
| 02:00.04 | Maquis | howdy sjansen{isCool} |
| 02:00.34 | Maquis | can you explain huffman encoding in 50 words or less? |
| 02:00.47 | tene | it makes stuff work |
| 02:00.52 | tene | there, 4 words |
| 02:00.54 | Maquis | |lart tene |
| 02:01.10 | Newsome | encode the most frequently-used symbols with the fewest number of bits |
| 02:01.30 | Maquis | Newsome: is there any significance ot how many bits you use for each? |
| 02:01.40 | sjansen{isCool} | Maquis: it's not in wikipedia, it must not exist |
| 02:02.08 | Maquis | sjansen{isCool}: i just found it in wikipedia, but it's a long article |
| 02:02.25 | Maquis | just curious because they |
| 02:02.45 | Maquis | re talking about it in the discussion of getting 1.7 billion digits of pi onto a cd |
| 02:02.49 | sjansen{isCool} | ~hug wikipedia |
| 02:02.51 | ibot | ACTION hugs wikipedia |
| 02:03.01 | Newsome | Maquis, if you build a tree out of it, you can find the optimal encoding |
| 02:03.32 | Maquis | Newsome: sprru/// o |
| 02:03.42 | Maquis | sorry... i'm going to ask another quick question |
| 02:04.18 | sjansen{isCool} | There goes Newsome, showing off what a CS masters will get one. La dee dah, aren't I a computer genius. You are all mere mortals, while I approach PhD-dom. |
| 02:04.28 | Maquis | how do you determine whether a specific item is a item itself, or if it's part of another item |
| 02:04.33 | Newsome | ~lart sjansen{isCool} |
| 02:04.38 | sjansen{isCool} | PhD-dumb I say. Will Huffman coding back me a cheesecake? I think not! |
| 02:04.55 | Newsome | heh |
| 02:05.10 | Maquis | in this example, there are a couple examples given... one of them has one item that's a single bit and the rest are 4 or 6 bits |
| 02:05.37 | Newsome | Maquis: does it show the tree graphically? |
| 02:05.44 | Maquis | Newsome: no |
| 02:05.47 | sjansen{isCool} | Newsome: don't answer that until you finish my cheesecake! |
| 02:06.39 | Maquis | sjansen{isNotCool}: i'm trying to learn something here... |
| 02:06.57 | sjansen{isCool} | You ingrate! And to think I gave you my VAX. |
| 02:07.32 | sjansen{isCool} | Maquis: but, but, but .... okay |
| 02:07.33 | Newsome | Maquis: Huffman codes are deterministic |
| 02:07.39 | Maquis | oh... |
| 02:07.54 | Newsome | so, for example, take this encoding: |
| 02:08.16 | Newsome | a - 0, b - 10, c - 11 |
| 02:08.18 | Maquis | oh... so, that's why a tree is a part of it... |
| 02:08.37 | Maquis | if you get a 0, you know that's it... but if you have a 1, you know you're not done yet |
| 02:08.43 | Newsome | I can give you a stream of bits, and you can decode it: 11010 |
| 02:08.54 | Maquis | cab |
| 02:08.57 | Newsome | right |
| 02:09.29 | Maquis | so, if you have an approximately equal number of each item you're encoding, then you'd want to make the tree moderately even.. |
| 02:09.56 | Maquis | and if you don't, then you want to have it off-balance so that you can take advantage of that... |
| 02:10.02 | tene | nodnod |
| 02:10.04 | Newsome | essentially |
| 02:10.45 | Maquis | and according to what i'm reading, bzip2 uses this, and that's how they managed to get 1.7 billion digits of pi on a cd-rom |
| 02:11.01 | Maquis | (this guy actually does the math... but he doesn't explain all of his reasoning...) |
| 02:11.24 | Newsome | bzip2 uses huffman? |
| 02:11.31 | Newsome | hmm |
| 02:11.46 | Maquis | i don't know... that's just what this guy on /. said... which doesn't make it very reliable... |
| 02:12.02 | Maquis | but he does seem to have some idea of what he's saying in other parts... |
| 02:12.12 | Newsome | Well, Huffman isn't the primary compression |
| 02:12.30 | Maquis | Newsome: thanks for explaining that! it makes a lot more sense... :) |
| 02:12.42 | Newsome | hope it helps |
| 02:12.53 | Maquis | it does... |
| 02:15.04 | levi | Bah. I hate gcc. |
| 02:15.22 | bonez39 | Levi: which compiler do you prefer? |
| 02:16.28 | levi | Well, I haven't used a C compiler I like. |
| 02:16.36 | Newsome | Maquis: http://www.cis.ksu.edu/~howell/viewer/huffman.html |
| 02:16.37 | levi | gcc usually works fine. |
| 02:16.55 | levi | I'm just trying to figure out how it knows its default library and include search path. |
| 02:17.00 | levi | And how to get it to tell me. |
| 02:17.25 | Maquis | Newsome: thanks :) |
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| 02:17.55 | Newsome | levi: gcc --help |
| 02:20.23 | Newsome | hmm :) |
| 02:20.45 | levi | Duh. I looked at that a couple of times, but missed the particular option I needed both time. |
| 02:20.46 | levi | s. |
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| 02:22.49 | Newsome | "gcc -dumpspecs" should give _more_ than enough information |
| 02:23.23 | levi | It's not clear from either of those which the default include path is. |
| 02:25.09 | *** join/#utah hans (fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 02:25.17 | levi | It's got the install path, the program search path, and the library search path. |
| 02:25.53 | Maquis | my guess would be that it's the library search path |
| 02:26.00 | Maquis | but i could be completely wrong |
| 02:29.18 | bonez39 | g'evenin' Hans |
| 02:29.27 | bonez39 | Maquis, this has to be a great week |
| 02:29.51 | Maquis | bonez39: you wanna take my test for me? |
| 02:30.07 | bonez39 | what's the test? |
| 02:30.14 | bonez39 | and is it in the Grant Building? |
| 02:30.17 | Maquis | cs345 operating systems |
| 02:30.22 | Maquis | yes... it's in the testing center |
| 02:30.22 | bonez39 | I love taking tests there..... |
| 02:30.37 | bonez39 | not sure how I'd do on the test, but I'd have fun....fo sure...... |
| 02:31.18 | bonez39 | I always had a blast there...I'd watch other students..see them sweating..and of course..I always wondered what was hidden when I saw girls come there in trench coats..... |
| 02:31.21 | Maquis | bonez39: any chance you could explain to me why you enjoy taking tests inthere? |
| 02:31.23 | bonez39 | always an adventure..... |
| 02:31.32 | Maquis | ah... |
| 02:31.33 | bonez39 | I just explained....... |
| 02:31.36 | Maquis | yeah... |
| 02:31.57 | levi | Ahh, I finally found out how to do it: gcc -v -E - |
| 02:32.07 | bonez39 | always wondering who would be turned back at check point charley there......for bad hair...or a lousy shave job..or the wrong sort of shoes or whatever.. |
| 02:32.08 | Maquis | see... i got mad at the testing center when i was in physics 220 |
| 02:32.21 | Maquis | i've never seen anybody be turned away... |
| 02:32.22 | bonez39 | what did they do TO you then,? |
| 02:32.30 | bonez39 | I have seen a few people not get in... |
| 02:33.00 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:33.26 | Maquis | well... i was stuck in there for 4.5 hours... (about once every other week), and there would always be some girl in an mfhd class that would come in right around the 1.5 hour point, take a "test", and leave 10 minutes later |
| 02:33.34 | Maquis | and then another one would come in another 20 minutes later |
| 02:33.45 | Maquis | and then a couple more times through the course of my test |
| 02:34.28 | Maquis | (ok... granted, i don't know that it was mfhd, but i couldn't think of any other class that would have 10-minute tests) |
| 02:35.14 | Maquis | the worst part is when you hear people complaining in line about how their tests are so hard... and then they get up to the front, and ask for the test for mfhd 105 or whatever |
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| 02:40.27 | levi | I hate the BYU testing center. |
| 02:40.56 | sjansen{isCool} | levi: What do you have to do with the BYU testing center? |
| 02:42.53 | bonez39 | waht's mfhd? |
| 02:43.11 | Maquis | bonez39: marriage, family and human development |
| 02:43.18 | Maquis | (the MRS degree) |
| 02:43.24 | tene | gah... |
| 02:43.28 | sjansen | well... there this a difference |
| 02:43.32 | bonez39 | I imagining mfinghard drive...but it can't be that......ah...those people..yeah..the ones who are at school to get that MRS degree |
| 02:43.35 | bonez39 | yeah |
| 02:48.37 | levi | sjansen: I used to take tests there. |
| 02:49.43 | bonez39 | my wife hated the place..and I loved it... |
| 02:50.04 | bonez39 | I always headed upstairs..to the loft..was always less tension up there..and worth the climb..... |
| 02:50.25 | bonez39 | isn't there an upper floor? it's been 15 years since I was there... |
| 02:56.59 | sjansen | yeah, they play music there for people that need help relaxing |
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| 03:27.57 | tene | grr |
| 03:28.04 | tene | I'm trying to get this jabber server running |
| 03:28.10 | tene | but it keeps dieing because of a broken pipe |
| 03:44.55 | xbmodder | hey tene |
| 03:45.02 | tene | hi |
| 03:45.02 | xbmodder | you there? |
| 03:45.11 | tene | Yep. |
| 03:45.13 | tene | Are you? |
| 03:45.16 | xbmodder | yeahh |
| 03:45.19 | xbmodder | i hope |
| 03:47.01 | tene | you haven't responded to my email. |
| 03:47.08 | xbmodder | i have not got it |
| 03:47.16 | xbmodder | maybe i have |
| 03:47.22 | xbmodder | i was being tutored :( |
| 03:47.25 | xbmodder | can't respond |
| 03:47.55 | tene | kk |
| 03:48.06 | xbmodder | tene, do you know how much paypal charges for transactions? |
| 03:48.20 | tene | no |
| 03:49.01 | xbmodder | brb |
| 03:55.20 | xbmodder | back |
| 03:56.12 | xbmodder | sorry about that |
| 03:56.43 | goozbach | :49 -> :55 |
| 03:56.54 | goozbach | never do that to us again, we were worried |
| 03:56.58 | goozbach | :) |
| 03:57.07 | xbmodder | hahaha :) |
| 03:57.33 | tene | grr... |
| 03:58.07 | xbmodder | tene, nice :) |
| 04:04.03 | tensai_ | tene, my son. tell me of your jabberd woes. |
| 04:04.30 | tene | well |
| 04:04.54 | tene | my problem, it seems, is that I didn't read the docs or config file well enough |
| 04:05.05 | xbmodder | hahaaha |
| 04:05.07 | tene | although with the bad stuff happening at jabber.org, getting the docs was difficult |
| 04:05.23 | tene | we'll see what happens after I recompile it and set it up again. |
| 04:06.03 | tensai_ | what components are you trying to run with it? just the plain jane jabberd? |
| 04:07.11 | tene | I didn't have an auth or storage backend set up. |
| 04:07.32 | tene | I finally tracked that down, and set it to use berkdb. |
| 04:07.36 | tene | but that wasn't working |
| 04:07.48 | tene | and I tracked that down to jabberd not being compiled with berkdb support |
| 04:07.52 | tene | so right now it's recompiling. |
| 04:08.46 | xbmodder | ok i have an idea... i am really bored so lets make a bit torrent network |
| 04:08.47 | xbmodder | :) |
| 04:09.03 | tene | whyfor? |
| 04:09.12 | xbmodder | idk |
| 04:09.14 | tensai_ | I've got mine running, but I don't claim to be an expert. I'm glad to field questions if I can. |
| 04:09.20 | tene | thanks, tensai |
| 04:09.27 | tene | if it dowsn't work now, I'll bother you. |
| 04:10.21 | tensai_ | did you guys see the Penny Arcade today? hilarious. |
| 04:10.21 | tene | it *looks* like it started okay... |
| 04:10.24 | tene | nodnod |
| 04:10.26 | tene | I liked it. |
| 04:11.42 | tensai_ | do you have the doc that shows the xml to talk to jabber? I found that extremely helpful. |
| 04:12.34 | tene | well, I couldn't even get jabberd to run at all originally |
| 04:14.30 | xbmodder | how about: mirroring a bunch of TMBG songs |
| 04:18.03 | tensai_ | I like Exodus, JAJC, PSI, and Miranda. Neos is nice but difficult to figure out. |
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| 04:20.50 | tene | tensai_: you familiar with using berkdb backends, or should I set up something different to get your help? |
| 04:21.27 | tensai_ | I've never used it. I have mysql and text file backends. |
| 04:21.31 | tene | 'cause that's where the problems seem to be |
| 04:21.34 | tene | text? |
| 04:21.34 | brigham | text is n. 1. [techspeak] Executable code, esp. a `pure code portion shared between multiple instances of a program running in a multitasking OS (compare {English}). 2. Textual material in the mainstream sense; data in ordinary {{ASCII}} or {{EBCDIC}} representation (see {flat-ASCII}). See: text2 |
| 04:21.41 | tene | that should work |
| 04:21.47 | tene | didn't see that option in the configs |
| 04:22.08 | tensai_ | xdb_sql and xdb_file |
| 04:22.34 | tene | hmm? |
| 04:22.54 | tensai_ | it's the default backend. I only use it for conferences. |
| 04:23.23 | tensai_ | I went with mysql so I could share data between jabber auth and the jud |
| 04:23.38 | tene | looks like I'm setting up mysql, then. |
| 04:23.53 | tensai_ | the jud that reads from text files had issues. the perl version works much better. |
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| 04:38.34 | tene | yay, jabber works |
| 04:53.32 | tene | tensai_: about conferences |
| 04:55.15 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~scott@216.126.221.115) |
| 04:56.33 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (~amcnabb@c-67-161-219-228.client.comcast.net) |
| 04:56.44 | Maquis | http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0125_050125_chimeras.html |
| 04:56.56 | Maquis | interesting article for consideration... |
| 04:57.13 | Maquis | |lart amcnabb |
| 05:04.09 | SpecialK | |lart Maquis |
| 05:05.24 | Maquis | |lart SpecialK |
| 05:10.47 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 05:26.44 | xbmodder | guys can you do this 'wget http://xbmodder.us/tmbg.tar.torrent; btdownloadheadless.py tmbg.tar.torrent' |
| 05:26.59 | xbmodder | i need some users |
| 05:29.03 | mheath | What is it? |
| 05:29.23 | mheath | (Not saying it is, just making sure) |
| 05:29.43 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 05:38.29 | macnerv | ooooooga moooooooooga |
| 05:39.07 | xbmodder | they might be giants songs |
| 05:39.36 | xbmodder | its not too illegal |
| 05:43.33 | macnerv | nope |
| 05:43.34 | macnerv | nada |
| 05:43.35 | macnerv | bbl |
| 05:43.51 | xbmodder | hahaha |
| 05:44.54 | mheath | xbmodder: and why no compression? (Just wondering) |
| 05:46.57 | xbmodder | its in mp3 |
| 05:48.22 | mheath | So? :) |
| 05:48.33 | mheath | bz2 would still have quite an effect. |
| 05:48.40 | xbmodder | bzip2/gzip does not affect it |
| 05:48.46 | xbmodder | download the file and try for yourself |
| 05:54.52 | SpecialK | rop Grumman Readies Commercial Aircraft Anti-Missile System. Read More |
| 05:54.52 | SpecialK | :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: |
| 05:54.53 | SpecialK | Jan. 25—Photo Release: Northrop Grumman Names John Griffing Corporate Lead Executive for Navy-Marine Corps Pr |
| 05:55.28 | SpecialK | how did that get sent? |
| 05:55.51 | SpecialK | nothing like itin the buffer. . . |
| 05:56.02 | xbmodder | ? |
| 05:56.05 | Maquis | SpecialK: you seem to have problems like that... |
| 06:00.53 | xbmodder | how do you reload inittab? |
| 06:00.59 | xbmodder | killall -(what init |
| 06:05.00 | mheath | xbmodder: just init <level> |
| 06:05.04 | mheath | It will use the current inittab |
| 06:05.35 | xbmodder | who is downloaded tmbg.tar? |
| 06:06.48 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 06:08.05 | tensai_ | xbmodder: init q |
| 06:08.09 | xbmodder | cool |
| 06:08.09 | xbmodder | :) |
| 06:08.11 | xbmodder | and cool |
| 06:08.24 | tensai_ | tene: what about conferences? |
| 06:09.03 | xbmodder | conferences? |
| 06:09.11 | tene | how to set up? seems to not work by default. |
| 06:09.17 | tene | and can't find ref to it in confs. |
| 06:12.10 | tensai_ | I have mine as a separate process linked in. do you have the mu-conference.so? |
| 06:12.40 | tensai_ | I used debian packages so I don't know where it comes from in the source |
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| 06:15.38 | tene | mheath: bz2 compressed that .tar by 3% |
| 06:16.40 | tene | not that I can find, tensai_ |
| 06:17.01 | tene | where would it be? |
| 06:18.14 | tensai_ | /usr/lib/jabber/mu-conference/ |
| 06:18.38 | tene | I don't even have a /usr/lib/jabber/ |
| 06:19.18 | tensai_ | where are you other .so files? like xdb_sql or dnssrv |
| 06:19.33 | tensai_ | http://mu-conference.jabberstudio.org/ |
| 06:20.07 | tene | not quite sure, really |
| 06:20.54 | tensai_ | could be in the source directory. I did build it from source once but I don't recall much about it. |
| 06:21.56 | tene | compiled via portage. |
| 06:22.10 | tene | I haven't wanted to bother changing my router away from gentoo yet. |
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| 06:50.09 | xbmodder | ahh crud |
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| 06:50.59 | tene | ?? |
| 06:59.02 | xbmodder | any idea why all the video mplayer is trying to play is blue? |
| 07:05.32 | xbmodder | yes! i fixed it! |
| 07:30.07 | xbmodder | god damn it... i can't wait until tommorow night :-/ |
| 07:30.56 | tene | what happens then? |
| 07:31.07 | xbmodder | let 12 and a half hours pass in 12 and a half seconds (of course i control everything that happens i am passively controlling what happens so i don't get bored) |
| 07:34.36 | xbmodder | tene, i get my first official job ( |
| 07:35.24 | xbmodder | the guy finally broke his damn computer |
| 07:35.31 | xbmodder | what do you think i should bring |
| 07:35.34 | xbmodder | knoppix CD? |
| 07:36.01 | tene | nodnod |
| 07:37.36 | xbmodder | what else should i take? |
| 07:37.56 | xbmodder | uh.. i need some way to call you guys for help |
| 07:39.12 | xbmodder | ouch |
| 07:39.19 | xbmodder | ummm |
| 07:40.46 | xbmodder | how about a hardware kit |
| 07:40.57 | xbmodder | i don't think they want me inside their computers |
| 07:41.14 | xbmodder | give me a crash course in being professinal |
| 07:42.39 | tene | what's the problem? |
| 07:42.53 | xbmodder | i don't know yet |
| 07:42.59 | xbmodder | i find that out tommorow :) |
| 07:43.34 | xbmodder | i need the 50-100 dollars to buy a girl tickets to disneyland |
| 07:44.17 | xbmodder | so tene tell me how to act smart |
| 07:44.51 | tene | know what you're doing |
| 07:49.17 | xbmodder | ok |
| 07:49.18 | xbmodder | ... |
| 07:49.54 | tene | you want to intentionally try to impress? |
| 07:50.50 | xbmodder | i want them to think i am really smart |
| 07:50.54 | xbmodder | one guy knows that |
| 07:50.58 | xbmodder | (he is hiring me) |
| 07:51.19 | xbmodder | the other guy is not confident in my skillz |
| 07:51.23 | tene | it depends on the person |
| 07:51.29 | tene | different things work for different people. |
| 07:51.42 | tene | but generally, you want to appear *competent*, not just smart. |
| 07:52.20 | xbmodder | ok :) |
| 07:53.11 | tene | do your job and do it well. |
| 07:53.15 | xbmodder | ok |
| 07:53.22 | tene | ask intelligent questions |
| 07:53.24 | xbmodder | what is the definiton of well in this case |
| 07:53.35 | tene | "Make It Work" |
| 07:53.55 | xbmodder | so paperclip and rubber band solutions work? |
| 07:54.27 | tene | if it works well and doesn't fail or "kind of work" then whatever you need to do |
| 07:54.39 | tene | for example, it's not good to fix one problem or cause another. |
| 07:54.54 | tene | or something like "It works, but you have to do thisandthis first or else it breaks" |
| 07:54.56 | xbmodder | hahaha |
| 07:55.24 | xbmodder | how about fix a problem that breaks down the line in 2 months or... |
| 07:56.09 | xbmodder | never mind |
| 08:04.03 | fozz | I think calm is important. :) |
| 08:04.07 | tene | nodnod |
| 08:04.11 | tene | tensai: still around? |
| 08:09.20 | xbmodder | :) |
| 08:09.23 | xbmodder | thanks all! |
| 08:09.29 | xbmodder | i will be gettin' to bed |
| 08:09.51 | tene | g'night |
| 08:09.56 | fozz | laydah |
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| 12:55.59 | emcnabb | good morning |
| 13:37.32 | hans | |lart emcnabb |
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| 14:20.44 | Maquis | mornin emcnabb |
| 14:20.56 | Uncle_Jesse | good morning everyone |
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| 14:37.28 | levi | Good morning. |
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| 15:00.03 | hans | "goodbye" |
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| 15:25.27 | emcnabb | |lart hans |
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| 15:28.21 | Maquis | |lart emcnabb |
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| 15:31.33 | Maquis | mornin Newsome |
| 15:31.38 | Newsome | morning |
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| 15:34.47 | hans | you're a vegetable |
| 15:34.54 | hans | ~dance |
| 15:34.55 | ibot | "ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' alive, stayin' alive" |
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| 16:02.36 | sjansen | I mean, I see an accident on north bound I-15 almost daily. And it's raining today. |
| 16:03.00 | sjansen | Maybe it's statistics making up for the four I saw yesterday. |
| 16:03.26 | sjansen | Or maybe the rain kept me busy enough that I didn't notice one. |
| 16:03.30 | vontrapp | anyone else go to the collective soul concert yesterday? |
| 16:05.39 | hans | i'm listening to them now. does that count? |
| 16:07.17 | sjansen | http://blog.drinsama.de/erich/en/linux/debian/2005012301-xorg |
| 16:07.29 | sjansen | Or as I prefer to call it, why Debian developers are idiots. |
| 16:08.02 | sjansen | Thankfully, someone called him on it: |
| 16:08.18 | sjansen | http://www.fooishbar.org/blog//tech/x/erich-2005-01-24-13-43.html |
| 16:09.09 | Jayce^ | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/27/apple_site_powerbook_g5/ |
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| 16:09.38 | sjansen | And what's this about X.org not being part of Sarge? Pure lunacy. It's like Debian enjoys being uselessly obsolete. |
| 16:10.21 | PeregrineFalcon | Hey. |
| 16:10.26 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The source for OSS focused communication in Utah. Check out sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, etc. |
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| 16:18.39 | sjansen | Does Debian not have the concept of a noarch package? |
| 16:20.18 | tensai | yeah. all the -doc packages are that way. |
| 16:20.41 | tensai | Architecture: all |
| 16:20.52 | sjansen | I'm looking at a .deb for a python program on sf. Was the packager just an idiot for making it i386? |
| 16:22.31 | tensai | sounds like. looks like the python packages in the main archive are all noarch. |
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| 16:23.22 | tensai | ok, not all. but some. |
| 16:28.55 | vontrapp | sjansen, i don't get why not putting xorg in a stable release when it's not stable is idiotic |
| 16:29.06 | vontrapp | you can still get it from testing i'm sure if you want it |
| 16:29.26 | sjansen | X.org is more stable than XFree86. |
| 16:29.50 | sjansen | XFree86 has essentially been abandoned. It has little to no future. |
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| 16:30.10 | Jayce^ | because 'stable' was closed for new apps a while back.. |
| 16:30.35 | sjansen | Considering that Debian releases happen once ever ice age, and Sarge hasn't been released yet, I'd be putting energy into getting X.org into Sarge, not making excuses. |
| 16:31.03 | sjansen | And the death of XFree86 was sealed before stable was closed. |
| 16:31.25 | sjansen | So that's not a valid excuse. |
| 16:32.17 | bonez39 | vontrapp, do you live in salt lake? |
| 16:32.47 | bonez39 | is XFree86 dying or dead? what's up with that? what replaces it? |
| 16:32.56 | sjansen | X.org |
| 16:33.28 | sjansen | X.org is a fork of XFree86 because the XFree86 maintainers decided to commit open source suicide. |
| 16:33.52 | sjansen | Looks like everyone but Debian got the news. |
| 16:33.58 | bonez39 | sjansen, how did they do that? |
| 16:34.15 | bonez39 | yeah, I run debian...what impact will this have on my debian installation? |
| 16:34.15 | vontrapp | bonez39: in AF (lindon, PG, lehi area) |
| 16:34.30 | vontrapp | none |
| 16:34.32 | sjansen | They've always been unfriendly to outside contribution, then they decided t make a license change that almost no one was willing to agree to. |
| 16:34.42 | bonez39 | hmmm ok |
| 16:36.26 | hans | hmm. a virus is spreading like wildfire here |
| 16:36.35 | hans | *02.com BAGLE worm looks like |
| 16:36.52 | bonez39 | via email, hans? |
| 16:36.59 | hans | yes |
| 16:37.16 | hans | how else? how long has it been since a virus spread any other way? |
| 16:37.30 | hans | interesting phenomenon that. |
| 16:37.46 | bonez39 | ok, dumb question...I fell in that one |
| 16:38.00 | Jayce^ | hans, recently, remember the RPC virus? |
| 16:38.33 | hans | phew. I was beginning to panic, thinking that virus writers had lost their creative spark. |
| 16:39.57 | vontrapp | how did RPC spread? |
| 16:39.59 | sjansen | Jayce^: thanks, there was something scratching at the edge of my memory, you got it |
| 16:40.42 | hans | I think rpc is the method, not the name |
| 16:40.51 | Jayce^ | remote procedure call... the RPC system in windows had a buffer overflow, or something like that.. which allowed any connection to execute arbitrary code.. of course |
| 16:40.54 | hans | remote procedure calls |
| 16:41.12 | vontrapp | oh yes, i do remember that |
| 16:42.42 | vontrapp | it was when i first got my laptop, before i got wireless working in linux and so used win at work |
| 16:43.05 | vontrapp | i had it not even two days and got a virus |
| 16:43.09 | vontrapp | i was not to pleased |
| 16:43.19 | sjansen | wow, you made it past 24 hours |
| 16:43.38 | sjansen | must not have connected it to a network for the first day |
| 16:43.54 | vontrapp | sjansen: yeah, didn't have internet at home ;) |
| 16:43.56 | Jayce^ | I had a neighbor, booted into his brand new install, connected to windows update to get the patch, and had it before the tiny patch had downloaded |
| 16:45.20 | hans | that's nothing. I saw it infect a box before the installation was finished (at byu) |
| 16:45.58 | sjansen | that's nothing, I saw it steal a lolly-pop from a five year old |
| 16:46.17 | Jayce^ | that coulda been the case in this one too hans.. crazy |
| 16:46.18 | brailsmt_ | oh yeah... i saw one get infected before the install CD was even loaded... |
| 16:46.37 | hans | |lart brailsmt_ |
| 16:46.38 | Jayce^ | oh yeah, I saw emcnabb steal a lolly-pop from a 4 year old! :) |
| 16:46.44 | vontrapp | what's this, birds coming back from the south already?? |
| 16:46.59 | hans | vontrapp: it's a blessing. shoot them, they're for dinner. |
| 16:47.17 | hans | that wasn't so hard. I now have a working asterisk voicemail setup. |
| 16:47.44 | hans | it took a lot more effort than that to get vgetty set up. |
| 16:47.55 | bonez39 | postum......hmmmm |
| 16:48.20 | bonez39 | my grandma used to say...there's as much postiene in postum as caffeine in coffee......;) |
| 16:48.37 | bonez39 | never got a definition from her about what posteine was though |
| 16:48.43 | sjansen | Who wants to bet nikhil is from India? |
| 16:49.19 | bonez39 | hans, any suggestions on SIP phones? do use SIP phones with your asterisk setup or just regular phone sets? |
| 16:49.20 | Jayce^ | hunh? |
| 16:50.31 | tensai | hans: I found asterisk extremely easy to set up. I really dig it. |
| 16:50.34 | hans | bonez39: I haven't. I just have FXO, so unfortunately no interaction from asterisk from the house phones. |
| 16:50.48 | hans | I dig it too, but I need to find/write a vim command to renumber extensions |
| 16:50.57 | tensai | all the linux soft phones I've tried pretty much suck eggs. x-lite for windows is passable |
| 16:51.08 | hans | what's wrong with them? |
| 16:51.16 | tensai | there's a perl script I saw once |
| 16:51.29 | hans | yeah, I saw that too. It shouldn't be hard. |
| 16:51.29 | vontrapp | tensai: i'll agree there |
| 16:51.56 | hans | what I don't get is why asterisk couldn't just require that things be in order and not have a priority number |
| 16:52.25 | tensai | ugly for one. none of them work 100% of the time. |
| 16:52.33 | tensai | you can't branch that way |
| 16:52.48 | hans | none of what? |
| 16:52.50 | vontrapp | linphone i just couldn't get working |
| 16:52.57 | tensai | none of the soft phones |
| 16:53.26 | hans | oh duh. |
| 16:53.32 | vontrapp | kphone has issues with the encoding/decoding, lots o static and such, wigs out sometimes when another program loads or even when i change workspaces |
| 16:53.52 | hans | can't branch? sure you can. You can still say branch to the third thing, the numbering is just implied. |
| 16:53.57 | tensai | I can get kphone to answer but not call. gives a weird codec error. |
| 16:54.22 | vontrapp | i fortunately don't have that problem |
| 16:55.03 | tensai | yeah, I guess you could. so far I haven't found it to be such a problem. with macros my contexts never get too long. |
| 16:55.11 | vontrapp | kphone gets hung up sometimes too, i'll push the hangup button and it won't respond for 2-3 seconds |
| 16:55.51 | hans | well even for a simple dialplan like I have now, manually reordering takes twice as long as the intended change. it's a waste, even if for small dialplans it's just a minor inconvenience. doesn't scale well. |
| 16:56.21 | hans | but that's ok, we can preprocess it. |
| 16:56.41 | Jayce^ | should have it in a db, and gen the plan with your language of choice :) |
| 16:57.17 | hans | um, yeah. db. that's like, overkill. |
| 16:57.44 | hans | once I've had some time with the format I'll come up with what I think is the right way and transform it to the asterisk way, then I won't care. |
| 16:57.50 | Jayce^ | yeah, but geek points :) |
| 16:58.04 | Jayce^ | yaml <=> plan? :) |
| 16:58.04 | hans | I could write the transformer in assembly for geek points too |
| 16:58.21 | hans | well I didn't want to sound too buzzwordy, for sjansen's sake. :) |
| 16:58.46 | hans | but yes, yaml. :) |
| 16:58.52 | hans | if it makes sense. |
| 16:59.09 | tensai | print $sjansen{isSmart}; |
| 16:59.11 | tensai | 0 |
| 16:59.14 | hans | although I may decide to forget the extensions.conf file and go with AGI from the get-go |
| 17:00.26 | sjansen{isSmart} | ~bzfrag tensai |
| 17:00.28 | ibot | ACTION kills tensai with a shot from his BZTank |
| 17:01.25 | tensai | lart $sjansen{isSmart} |
| 17:01.30 | tensai | SIGSEGV: attempt to dereference NULL pointer |
| 17:02.35 | *** join/#utah joshc (~josh@jcoates.org) |
| 17:02.52 | sjansen{isSmart} | Looks like we have a new addict. ;-) |
| 17:03.07 | joshc | lol. |
| 17:05.18 | joshc | prediction: google will re-invent irc sometime in the next 5 years |
| 17:05.19 | vontrapp | drats, my most recent mileage was only 38.8 m/g |
| 17:05.33 | vontrapp | had 43.6 last week |
| 17:05.54 | joshc | that's pretty goog. is it a gas car? |
| 17:06.00 | vontrapp | si |
| 17:06.05 | vontrapp | er, yes |
| 17:06.12 | joshc | 4 cylinder i figure |
| 17:06.20 | joshc | efi |
| 17:06.21 | Bradipo | vontrapp: That your Festiva? |
| 17:06.30 | sjansen{r0x0|^5} | Additional prediction: And just like Usenet and GMail, it'll be cool but missing basic requirements that the original had. |
| 17:06.57 | joshc | there are only a handful of killer apps on the internet |
| 17:06.58 | vontrapp | yep, 4 cylinder festiva, 1990 |
| 17:07.23 | joshc | chat, mail, web publishing, search |
| 17:07.26 | joshc | and maybe a couple more. |
| 17:07.35 | joshc | oh, and usenet |
| 17:07.37 | sjansen{r0x0|^5} | I think it's too early to say. |
| 17:07.41 | joshc | and google has picked 'em off. |
| 17:07.48 | Bradipo | I wonder whats wrong with mine... I'm only getting about 26--30. |
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| 17:08.02 | sjansen{r0x0|^5} | joshc: You've missed a big one--file sharing. |
| 17:08.04 | joshc | the internet has been around for over 15 years - i dont think its too early to tell |
| 17:08.07 | tensai | I had a 1988 festiva. drove it right into the ground |
| 17:08.09 | joshc | ah - yes, file sharing. |
| 17:08.22 | joshc | bit torrent is one of the best new ideas i've seen. |
| 17:08.33 | sjansen{r0x0|^5} | joshc: We're still re-learning the importance of open standards and interoperability. |
| 17:08.49 | joshc | sure - but those are details in the context of 'killer apps', right? |
| 17:09.09 | sjansen{r0x0|^5} | Alot of people still think that proprietary approaches are viable long term, instead of just a way to ensure the short-term survival of a company or technology. |
| 17:09.29 | sjansen{r0x0|^5} | joshc: No, it's a major stumbling block in discovering new killer apps. |
| 17:09.55 | joshc | youre suggesting its a means to an end, right? where the end is the killer app. |
| 17:10.07 | joshc | makes sense. |
| 17:10.58 | joshc | a new killer app appears every 10 years though.. i think |
| 17:11.09 | joshc | last decade, it was the web |
| 17:11.20 | joshc | this decade maybe file sharing |
| 17:11.29 | joshc | er, p2p rather |
| 17:11.39 | joshc | voip? |
| 17:11.52 | hans | next decade: teleportation? |
| 17:11.56 | joshc | in the 80's we did basic file sharing though |
| 17:12.25 | joshc | hans - too many 'teleport into a wall' accidents likely to happen |
| 17:12.31 | sjansen | As William Gibson said, "the future is already here, it's just unevenly distributed." |
| 17:12.34 | joshc | dont think osha will let it happen |
| 17:12.45 | hans | heh. kill off all the scientists by accident before they finish the technology eh? |
| 17:13.20 | sjansen | I personally think that calling p2p the next killer app is a cop out. |
| 17:13.33 | vontrapp | joshc: that's easy, just have the teleport trade you with whatever is at the destination, so if you in a wall, at least you'll just be in the wall, not fused with it. |
| 17:13.37 | joshc | p2p, chat, voip, web publishing, search, mail, usenet - anything else? |
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| 17:14.17 | sjansen | distributed computing |
| 17:14.25 | sjansen | mobile convergence |
| 17:14.31 | joshc | yeah, but then you have a byzantine wall problem. |
| 17:14.33 | hans | vontrapp: then we'll have human-shaped walls everywhere |
| 17:14.38 | sjansen | Those all seem like cop outs to me, though. |
| 17:14.41 | joshc | distributed computing is a subset of p2p i figure |
| 17:14.52 | vontrapp | hans, or a hand-shaped piece of human |
| 17:14.56 | joshc | how you figure cop out? |
| 17:15.00 | vontrapp | that wouldn't be to pretty |
| 17:15.44 | sjansen | Because everyone sees it coming and everyone is or has chanted about how revolutionary it'll be. |
| 17:16.06 | brailsmt_ | joshc: cops are hard to figure out sometimes... |
| 17:16.08 | joshc | just because its easy to see, doesnt mean its a copout. ;-) |
| 17:16.12 | sjansen | Past killer apps, like the Web, spreadsheets, GUIs, etc. hit fast and hard. |
| 17:16.30 | joshc | the web didnt hit fast and hard, did it? |
| 17:16.34 | joshc | nor did GUIs |
| 17:16.43 | brailsmt_ | in the publics eye they did |
| 17:16.47 | joshc | p2p and voip are easily keeping pace with how fast they did |
| 17:16.50 | brailsmt_ | not from the techies standpoint |
| 17:17.03 | hans | napster was overnight phenom for most people. |
| 17:17.20 | joshc | napster was sort of a baby step in the p2p space |
| 17:18.02 | natester | it was a giant leap for my music collection |
| 17:18.09 | joshc | but it doesnt matter, i still think the 'real' killer apps have staying power. |
| 17:18.30 | joshc | and i see a pattern with what google is doing, and i think they will eventually knock each killer app off. |
| 17:18.59 | hans | it was p2p, mostly, and it may have been a flash in the pan but it is not forgotten and marks the beginning of the p2p/file-sharing era for most people. |
| 17:19.58 | joshc | hans - sure. i think thats right. i think p2p is a 'real' killer app that has staying power, but right now it's mostly used for illegal file trading. |
| 17:20.24 | sjansen | measured in bandwidth, perhaps |
| 17:20.25 | joshc | but i dont think its going away - it's too technically compelling. |
| 17:20.27 | natester | are you guys talking about the killer app that will lead us to ipv6? |
| 17:20.47 | joshc | i'm not sure about ipv6 - it's a neat idea, but not very compelling imho. |
| 17:20.56 | hans | i wonder if voip won't be it |
| 17:21.09 | sjansen | maybe not here in the US where we're still awash in addresses |
| 17:21.11 | joshc | well, measured in bandwidth, or by any other metric i figure. |
| 17:21.19 | vontrapp | ipv6 is looong overdue |
| 17:21.37 | joshc | i think nat works too well to make people really, really need ipv6. |
| 17:21.42 | hans | as in voip be the catalyst for ipv6. if there's enough bandwidth and voip is cheaper than cell phones (and works) |
| 17:21.48 | joshc | though in theory, it is "the right" thing to do. |
| 17:21.51 | hans | then NAT will really become a problem. That's when ipv6 will look attractive. |
| 17:21.52 | sjansen | but nat makes p2p much harder |
| 17:21.58 | *** join/#utah mhatch_ (~mhatch@66.239.25.55.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:22.17 | joshc | hans - you could be right there. maybe voip will kill nat. |
| 17:22.29 | sjansen | kill? no |
| 17:22.30 | natester | hans: seems to me the killer app comes after the infrastructure is already there |
| 17:22.41 | sjansen | nat is still useful for protecting networks while keeping the useful |
| 17:22.45 | hans | natester: voip works now |
| 17:22.46 | joshc | not kill, but you know what i mean, beat it down enough for ipv6 to make sense |
| 17:22.55 | hans | but when it becomes "killer" there won't be enough addresses |
| 17:23.17 | sjansen | ipv6 is slowly rolling out |
| 17:23.36 | hans | bandwidth and hardware has to be cheap enough to rival the cost of a celphone first, though. |
| 17:23.42 | sjansen | most hardware today is ipv6 capable, and software is transitioning |
| 17:23.48 | hans | and wireless ubiquity too |
| 17:25.00 | vontrapp | anyone see the "Roses are #FF0000" shirt on thinkgeek? |
| 17:25.04 | joshc | commercial bandwidth is $10/mbit/month now. |
| 17:25.16 | natester | vontrapp: heh |
| 17:25.20 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 17:25.36 | sjansen | bah, roses are #f00 |
| 17:26.00 | natester | roses are #FFFFFF too |
| 17:26.41 | sjansen | That's so ugly. You mean roses are #fff too. |
| 17:27.00 | *** part/#utah hatchmt (~mhatch@66.239.25.55.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:27.03 | hans | that shirt is funny |
| 17:29.32 | macnewbold | sjansen: #fff == #ffffff or #fff == #f0f0f0 ? |
| 17:29.46 | sjansen | #fff == #ffffff, it's CSS |
| 17:29.56 | joshc | sup mac |
| 17:30.07 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (~hatchmt@66.239.25.55.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:30.37 | macnewbold | hey joshc - I was just noticing your presence, and wondered how long you'd been hanging out in here without me noticing :) |
| 17:31.02 | joshc | just a few minutes today - and i spend a little bit online yesterday. |
| 17:31.10 | macnewbold | sjansen: then #000 == #000000 or #000 == #0f0f0f?, and #666 == ??? |
| 17:31.27 | macnewbold | any luck with the job recruiting yet, josh? |
| 17:31.41 | joshc | there is a fair amount of downtime between interviews and real estate tours, etc. |
| 17:32.10 | natester | sjansen: can't you represent more colors with 3 bytes? |
| 17:32.11 | joshc | i've met a couple of interesting candidates - and a bunch of nice folks that arent a good fit. |
| 17:32.13 | macnewbold | real estate in utah, right? You're not giving up on us yet, are you? |
| 17:32.28 | joshc | lol. giving up on utah has been mighty tempting lately... ;-) |
| 17:32.33 | joshc | but i'm sticking it out. |
| 17:32.36 | sjansen | macnewbold: #000 == #000000 and #666 == #666666 |
| 17:32.41 | macnewbold | yeah, employment seems to be high right now, so maybe too many people happy with their current jobs... |
| 17:32.45 | joshc | we'll end up somewhere between draper and american fork. |
| 17:33.03 | macnewbold | that's too bad... SL Valley is so much more exciting :) |
| 17:33.06 | vontrapp | macnewbold: each single number translates to a double number |
| 17:33.10 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 17:33.10 | joshc | i just wish there was 10 times the population here in utah, and about 5 more universities. |
| 17:33.12 | sjansen | natester: it's shorthand, #f5e89u is also valid |
| 17:33.14 | macnewbold | and would probably be less culture shock... |
| 17:33.15 | vontrapp | #f3c == #ff33cc |
| 17:33.29 | joshc | hey, draper counts as salt lake, right..? sort of..? |
| 17:33.48 | macnewbold | well, barely... I guess they still use SLC address numbers, so that counts |
| 17:33.56 | sjansen | If you're a Web developer and don't know CSS, repent! |
| 17:34.09 | hans | joshc: what are you looking for? You're welcome to try to convince me it's better than grad school if I fit the bill |
| 17:34.28 | joshc | lol. i assure you, it's MUCH better than grad school. ;-) |
| 17:34.35 | macnewbold | I use CSS all the time, I just use the 6-digit representation, cause I wasn't sure what the missing digits in the 3-digit rep were :) |
| 17:34.42 | macnewbold | ~hans++ |
| 17:34.45 | macnewbold | ~praise hans |
| 17:34.47 | ibot | All hail hans! |
| 17:34.49 | joshc | hans - what bucket would you put yourself into? |
| 17:34.57 | hans | one big enough |
| 17:34.58 | macnewbold | empty one, please |
| 17:35.00 | hans | what do you mean? |
| 17:35.00 | joshc | "web guy" "sys admin guy" "coder guy" |
| 17:35.07 | macnewbold | "geek" |
| 17:35.10 | joshc | lol. |
| 17:35.20 | macnewbold | "5-gallon" |
| 17:35.20 | hans | keep me out of that web bucket. I can do it but it's not fun |
| 17:35.28 | hans | I do sysadmin and coding both |
| 17:35.31 | macnewbold | maybe not for you, hans... |
| 17:35.34 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@67.137.25.66) |
| 17:35.39 | joshc | ah - i remember - i checked your homepage the other day |
| 17:35.42 | hans | I don't like code for code so much as for the theory and solving the problems |
| 17:35.59 | joshc | what do you study in grad schoool - where do you study? |
| 17:36.40 | vontrapp | hans: go ahead, give your old answer, just for old times sake |
| 17:37.07 | hans | my old answer? |
| 17:37.19 | macnewbold | vontrapp: share his old answer with us :) |
| 17:37.21 | vontrapp | the answer to "what do you study" |
| 17:37.21 | hans | actually starting this fall, haven't started yet. CS |
| 17:37.32 | vontrapp | it was girls |
| 17:37.36 | macnewbold | ah |
| 17:37.42 | hans | oh right |
| 17:37.42 | natester | wow |
| 17:37.44 | natester | how unique |
| 17:38.01 | joshc | byu or uofu? somewhere else? |
| 17:38.06 | hans | nmsu |
| 17:38.16 | hans | undergrad was byu |
| 17:38.18 | joshc | nmsu..? |
| 17:38.24 | hans | new mexico state |
| 17:38.25 | joshc | new mexico? |
| 17:38.26 | joshc | ah |
| 17:38.26 | natester | what is nmsu good at? |
| 17:38.36 | hans | growing chile? Oh you mean in the CS dept |
| 17:38.40 | vontrapp | being in new mexico, for one |
| 17:38.41 | natester | lol |
| 17:39.00 | joshc | what attracted you to nmsu? any particular research you are interested in? |
| 17:39.05 | hans | they've got a strong AI/machine learning thing, and bioinformatics |
| 17:39.25 | hans | but I'm mostly interested in doing computer music stuff - one of the profs there has background in that |
| 17:39.27 | joshc | hm - sandia labs is in new mexico.. |
| 17:39.47 | hans | might mix in some ai/learning and/or realtime stuff. I enjoy realtime |
| 17:39.54 | joshc | maybe next time around you could attend the berkeley school of music in boston, and go to MIT part time... |
| 17:40.03 | hans | yeah, next life when I'm rich. |
| 17:40.07 | joshc | lol. |
| 17:40.36 | joshc | my brother plays guitar very, very well - and he's into tube amps. |
| 17:40.46 | joshc | he;s also become very interested in what makes a top 40 hit |
| 17:40.52 | joshc | via song analysis |
| 17:41.05 | joshc | chord progressions, beats, etc. |
| 17:41.07 | macnewbold | 1. Good beat |
| 17:41.07 | hans | interesting. although I wonder if it's not more due to market analysis |
| 17:41.16 | joshc | here's a link for ya: |
| 17:41.17 | macnewbold | 2. Good lyrics help (not necessary, apparently) |
| 17:41.25 | macnewbold | 3. Good fortune |
| 17:41.37 | hans | !serendipity |
| 17:42.00 | hans | i did realtime control as an RA at BYU with the MechE dept. |
| 17:42.08 | joshc | http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,11710,1391951,00.html |
| 17:42.41 | joshc | excerpt: |
| 17:42.42 | joshc | she emails it to Polyphonic Human Media Interface who, within 24 hours, will tell them whether their song will be a hit. |
| 17:43.39 | natester | do they train the program with previous hits or does it do it some other way. If it be some other way it's not an ANN |
| 17:43.47 | natester | s/./? |
| 17:44.03 | joshc | i believe they train it. |
| 17:44.37 | natester | hmmm does that leave much room for new styles? |
| 17:44.55 | joshc | i would think so - but then again, how many new styles are in the top 40 anyway...? ;-) |
| 17:45.04 | hans | satatistical analysis |
| 17:45.08 | joshc | here's an interesting math problem i've thought about: |
| 17:45.19 | joshc | how many 3 minute songs exist in the universe |
| 17:45.24 | hans | natester: it would miss on new styles. the article mentions disco, drum & bass |
| 17:45.41 | joshc | given some set ranges, beats, etc. |
| 17:45.54 | hans | but new styles are already hard to find. It doesn't take a computer to tell the studios it doesn't sound like other stuff |
| 17:45.56 | joshc | i'm not a musician - at all - but i figure its a valid question. |
| 17:46.04 | natester | hans: heh |
| 17:46.36 | natester | joshc: if you can represent the 3 minute song as a binary number there are a finite amount |
| 17:46.39 | hans | if anything, relying on this software will only make them more flexible, and herald in the age of community music and the downfall of the record labels |
| 17:47.13 | hans | joshc: a simpler question perhaps is how many melodies are there? |
| 17:47.28 | joshc | yes, maybe thats what i mean. |
| 17:47.29 | hans | even in a horrendously long classical piece the melodies are fairly short |
| 17:47.32 | hans | and yet we never seem to run out. |
| 17:47.51 | joshc | i've fooled around with the 'how many chess boards are there?' question. |
| 17:47.53 | joshc | that's hard. |
| 17:48.03 | bonez39-away | no pity for mpaa or riaa? hehe.. |
| 17:48.12 | bonez39-away | such dinosaurs they are |
| 17:48.25 | hans | not an especial animosity, like some, just a lack of concern. |
| 17:48.56 | natester | I don't like radio |
| 17:49.03 | hans | ~mourn kjq |
| 17:49.05 | ibot | ACTION lights some candles for kjq |
| 17:49.05 | mrpull | >10joshc: 01how many 3 minute songs exist in the universe |
| 17:49.06 | natester | they play creed every day |
| 17:49.07 | natester | gah |
| 17:49.16 | mrpull | joshc: it depends on how fast you play them |
| 17:49.38 | natester | joshc: what is the chessboard question? |
| 17:49.40 | joshc | heh, sure - thats why there needs to be some 'reasonable' parameters set |
| 17:49.56 | joshc | it's simply, how many legal chessboard configurations exist? |
| 17:49.59 | hans | chess boards or chess games? quite a different question |
| 17:50.05 | joshc | i mean, chess games |
| 17:50.10 | natester | joshc: how about constraining it to a harmonica |
| 17:50.17 | joshc | natester - lol |
| 17:50.39 | vontrapp | no, a kazoo, then almost anyone can play it |
| 17:50.44 | joshc | the problem is figuring out what is 'legal' and whats not. |
| 17:50.55 | hans | joshc: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Chess.html |
| 17:51.04 | natester | joshc: you can't tap the harmonica on the ground that is illegal |
| 17:51.16 | vontrapp | lol |
| 17:51.36 | hans | I once did a piece with the sounds of my watch and a table. |
| 17:51.41 | hans | "Time Flies" |
| 17:52.41 | joshc | hans - ah - thank you. i worked on this problem back in 97. i dont think wolfram had that page then. |
| 17:52.57 | joshc | i cruised the chess and math newsgroups, but could find anyone that could figure it out |
| 17:53.13 | joshc | and i wrote a lisp program to assist in the calculations, and i ended up with an rough estimate that way. |
| 17:53.47 | joshc | yay wolfram. thanks for the pointer. |
| 17:54.02 | hans | thank google. I love mathworld. |
| 17:54.14 | hans | that guy needs a nobel prize or something. |
| 17:54.27 | joshc | he's got lots of personal problem though, eh? |
| 17:54.42 | hans | oh I wouldn't know. like what? |
| 17:54.52 | joshc | his self image. ;-) |
| 17:54.59 | goozbach | ~lart goozbach for praising SUSE |
| 17:57.50 | mrpull | Someone asked Johnny Ramone once why the songs were so short. He said they were actually fairly long songs, played very very quickly. |
| 17:58.05 | joshc | the ramones were great. |
| 17:58.14 | joshc | rock and roll highschool was a good movie. |
| 17:58.52 | mrpull | yeah. I got a kick out of R&R Highschool |
| 17:59.04 | mrpull | it seems very not-punk to do a movie |
| 18:00.04 | joshc | sort of - but it does seem punk to do a super low budget movie, doesnt it? |
| 18:00.16 | joshc | especially when it involves blowing up a high school. |
| 18:00.35 | mrpull | true. te lower the budget the better. |
| 18:00.41 | mrpull | s/te/the |
| 18:04.03 | macnewbold | except for the budget for explosive devices... the bigger the budget, the bigger the bang |
| 18:04.12 | macnewbold | ~praise pyromania |
| 18:04.14 | ibot | All hail pyromania! |
| 18:04.24 | hans | ever play pyro? |
| 18:04.25 | mrpull | the disease or the record? |
| 18:04.29 | hans | dos games |
| 18:06.10 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~sjk36@128.187.175.70) |
| 18:06.35 | SpecialK | |lart Maquis |
| 18:08.39 | vontrapp | pyro was an awesome game |
| 18:09.45 | goozbach | scorched3D is fun as well |
| 18:11.28 | vontrapp | hans! you have pyro!! |
| 18:11.37 | vontrapp | gimme gimme! |
| 18:11.44 | hans | http://molelog.molehill.org/blox/Computers/Games/pyro_ii.writeback |
| 18:13.56 | natester | how about pengo; anyone play pango? |
| 18:14.00 | macnewbold | In case anyone hasn't seen this yet: http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/faqs/hacker.html |
| 18:16.03 | mrpull | mac: That is awesome. I like the Social / Productivity sections |
| 18:16.25 | mrpull | i worked at a Linux startup with a genius hacker |
| 18:16.46 | *** join/#utah tierra|w (~tierra@dsl093-225-126.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 18:16.50 | mrpull | he was filthy and never wore shoes |
| 18:17.01 | hans | I sometimes wonder if I'm mildly genius or just plain distractable. |
| 18:17.01 | mrpull | he'd stand around and talk for 9-5 every single day |
| 18:17.33 | mrpull | but would work from all evening, all night, every weekend, and holiday |
| 18:17.59 | mrpull | he drove management nuts, but he produced 90 percent of the code. |
| 18:18.17 | hans | driving management nuts is half the fun for them |
| 18:18.51 | joshc | interesting article. |
| 18:19.05 | joshc | but i have to say that i'm at odds with it. |
| 18:19.33 | hans | do tell which parts |
| 18:19.58 | joshc | sections 1 and 2 |
| 18:20.43 | hans | ... |
| 18:20.49 | joshc | i've managed some pretty amazing folks - the author of the gimp, the author of beos network stack, author of berkeley xfs... |
| 18:21.07 | joshc | scientist/hackers from lawrence berkeley labs..blah blah blah |
| 18:21.16 | joshc | and i've found that there are 2 types of 'hackers' |
| 18:21.30 | joshc | hackers as described by this document |
| 18:22.04 | joshc | and hackers that 'get it' and slightly modify their behavior to make the business work. |
| 18:22.20 | joshc | the first type, usually ended up getting fired - even if they were one of the best engineers in the dept. |
| 18:22.49 | joshc | but the thing was, that they *weren't* one of the best, really. they could've been, but they weren't. ya know what i mean? |
| 18:23.10 | joshc | the second type is *golden* - i mean, i only know like 3-4 of 'em. |
| 18:23.12 | hans | it might depend on what "the best" means |
| 18:23.34 | joshc | 'the best' means that they make magical things happen. |
| 18:23.43 | tierra|w | the only difference I see is one is working for the company, and the other has more self-interest |
| 18:23.43 | joshc | everyone has their own definition i guess |
| 18:23.44 | hans | but yeah. hackers are fascinating but being a hacker doesn't preclude adaptation |
| 18:23.54 | sjansen | I don't like that sections 1&2 imply it's okay to be anti-social. |
| 18:24.15 | joshc | i think sections 1 & 2 address the 'maturity' level of a hacker. |
| 18:24.33 | hans | I think parts of those sections do |
| 18:24.37 | sjansen | But I do like the fact that it points out some important things that management often misses: management isn't superior, and there's a good chance your other employees are incompetent. |
| 18:24.38 | mrpull | does it imply that it is acceptable or just lets the unaware know that it is common? |
| 18:24.45 | joshc | mature, sound minded hackers i have known have been complete freaks (according to wife) but they are amazing, mature, intelligent engineers. |
| 18:25.32 | joshc | sjansen - i agree, this is all dependent on management being non-idiots. |
| 18:26.25 | joshc | mrpull - maybe both. my impression of the article is that its trying to celebrate it a bit more than it should. |
| 18:26.28 | hans | I know _I_ can't work on a project non-stop unless my interest is really piqued. I know some accounting-types who are robotic in their ability to focus on boring mundane tasks constantly. I think I'd rather have the guilt pinges and stress of getting _something_ to show for things than be like them. |
| 18:27.19 | mrpull | josh: true. I think you and I are looking at it from opposite sides. I like your insight from the other side of the fence. |
| 18:27.31 | natester | hans: yeah me too hans |
| 18:28.16 | sjansen | mrpull: What other side? The extreme they describe is bad for the company unless it's entirely composed of great hackers. |
| 18:28.23 | joshc | i'm still bitter about some of my engineering/ops dept management experiences.. ;-) |
| 18:28.26 | natester | has anyone met a girl who fits the "hacker" description? |
| 18:28.32 | joshc | lol |
| 18:28.32 | hans | there has to be push and pull, compromise, as in all relationships. The key is for the manager (and hacker) to recognize that they are _different_. They really are. |
| 18:28.44 | mrpull | sjansen: from a management perspective |
| 18:28.49 | joshc | you guys ever heard of georgy russell? |
| 18:29.01 | mrpull | sjansen: I see it from the geek side |
| 18:29.04 | joshc | she ran for governer on an open-source platform in california. |
| 18:29.25 | hans | I've seen/met girls that do, yes. I don't remember any at BYU |
| 18:29.33 | joshc | she got slashdotted |
| 18:29.35 | hans | who knows, Maquis might be |
| 18:29.48 | joshc | and ended up in 7th place - but of course the governator won.. |
| 18:30.09 | vontrapp | haha, the governator |
| 18:30.24 | joshc | lol |
| 18:30.34 | joshc | anyway, georgy used to work for me. she was a nightmare. |
| 18:30.39 | vontrapp | thanks, hans |
| 18:31.04 | sjansen | mrpull: so you haven't seen co-workers lured into constantly goofing off and accomplishing nothing because they never notice that hacker is getting alot done on the side? |
| 18:31.13 | vontrapp | now i need franz to pump my other half up |
| 18:32.18 | sjansen | http://www.unix-girl.com/blog/ <-- sounds like a female hacker to me |
| 18:32.19 | *** join/#utah franz (~fugalh@204.96.22.194) |
| 18:32.19 | joshc | i used to setup counter-strike servers a work, and convince half the executive team to play |
| 18:32.36 | levi | Heh. |
| 18:32.46 | levi | Mmm, lisp. |
| 18:32.47 | sjansen | joshc: that isn't as big a hit to productivity, most of managment is useless anyway |
| 18:32.49 | joshc | the vp of finance, marketing and pr director would be fraggin the engineers |
| 18:32.51 | vontrapp | great, i can walk again without tipping over |
| 18:32.55 | mrpull | I have seen people waste more time than they should. |
| 18:32.57 | hans | I am hans and he is franz, and we are here to |
| 18:33.05 | franz | pump you up! |
| 18:33.06 | hans | pump you up! |
| 18:33.11 | mrpull | I waste more time than I should (IRC?) |
| 18:33.25 | hans | irc is both a waste and a resource |
| 18:33.31 | tensai | hans: have you made any calls into your asterisk box over that fxo card yet? |
| 18:33.32 | joshc | i even made a map of our office w/ worldcraft. |
| 18:33.33 | hans | at least, the way I use it |
| 18:33.38 | joshc | holy waste of time batman! |
| 18:33.40 | hans | tensai: yeah |
| 18:34.03 | tensai | works good? |
| 18:34.03 | sjansen | You now what would be great? I tool that searchs the links in your history. |
| 18:34.07 | natester | slashdot is a er waste and resource too |
| 18:34.22 | levi | slashdot is mostly a waste, though. |
| 18:34.23 | joshc | must...resist..reading..comments... |
| 18:34.26 | mrpull | I do think it is important to point out that if you see me at work screwing around reading blogs or chatting, that I probably was up at 3AM troubleshooting a customers website. |
| 18:34.26 | natester | sjansen: called itool? |
| 18:34.26 | hans | days like today are a waste. :) days like when things are totally borked and bradipo knows the answer and it saves me 2 hours of research, it's worth it. |
| 18:34.27 | sjansen | I saw a page yesterday with information I need today, but can't remember how I found it. |
| 18:34.41 | hans | slashdot is ok with rss |
| 18:34.44 | tensai | but /. told me that 90% of conversation on irc is about warez... |
| 18:35.09 | vontrapp | yikes! we've got a long wayz to go to meet that quota |
| 18:35.10 | joshc | the headlines are good, but there are WAY too many idiots posting comments.. |
| 18:35.11 | natester | um so guys back to warez |
| 18:35.17 | tensai | I read fewer stories now that I'm using the /. rss feed |
| 18:35.17 | joshc | lol |
| 18:35.41 | mrpull | bloglines is the drug that keeps me on the web.... |
| 18:35.46 | sjansen | slashdot email is the way to go |
| 18:35.50 | joshc | i read news.yahoo.com, slashdot and drudgereport |
| 18:35.54 | levi | I have resisted bloglines. |
| 18:35.54 | mrpull | but it does save time in a way |
| 18:36.13 | joshc | and a few specialty forums |
| 18:36.18 | levi | I sometimes read some RSS feeds on my treo, but it doesn't link to full articles or comments, so it doesn't take a lot of time. |
| 18:36.22 | vontrapp | ~slashdot |
| 18:36.22 | hans | i haven't resisted, but my first exposure was more of an "um, kinda cool" experience than an addicitve one |
| 18:36.31 | sjansen | bloglines helps me stay on top of stuff that would be very hard to otherwise |
| 18:36.44 | sjansen | I just wish SUSE employees wouldn't spend so much time talking about their cats. |
| 18:36.49 | *** join/#utah stuporglue (~stuporglu@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 18:36.49 | mrpull | and it helps avoid ads and ugly webpages |
| 18:37.05 | joshc | sjansen - ??? |
| 18:37.08 | hans | it _is_ an ugly webpage |
| 18:37.27 | hans | and you don't get to see the pretty ones. at least thunderbird isn't particularly ugly. |
| 18:37.51 | mrpull | true. but i'm after the content. the presentation is less important to me. |
| 18:37.53 | sjansen | joshc: Want to know what's happening with an open source technology? You can follow CVS, subscribe to the list, or watch the blogs of the developers. |
| 18:38.19 | hans | but the experience has to be fast. or I get lured into reading blogs for too long |
| 18:38.20 | sjansen | The Mono developers are a little annoying with their left-leaning policitcs, but there's more signal than noise. |
| 18:38.34 | hans | with thunderbird I can skim through and it's less of a waste. same with other aggregators |
| 18:38.47 | joshc | i was confused by the suse/cat comment - but i get it, you follow suse in particular. |
| 18:38.50 | hans | I really just need to figure out how to get raggle to open links in firefox and not links |
| 18:39.02 | sjansen | The SUSE developers I read seem to spend about 65% of their time talking about their personal lives, and 35% talking about SUSE. |
| 18:39.32 | joshc | maybe i should try suse again - but i'm too excited by it |
| 18:39.36 | sjansen | Posting cat pictures was a blog fad, hence the reference. |
| 18:39.45 | joshc | i've just fallen in love with debian, and i cant think of a reason to switch.. |
| 18:40.04 | joshc | i'm NOT too excited by it (suse). |
| 18:40.09 | sjansen | SUSE is annoying. Novell is a largely closed organization. |
| 18:40.11 | natester | ahem, gentoo |
| 18:40.29 | sjansen | It's much easier to track the direction of Debian and Fedora. |
| 18:40.40 | joshc | i've got a gentoo live cd - it's fine, but debian stable is really attractive. |
| 18:40.42 | macnewbold | y'all should just start running FreeBSD instead... that'll show 'em! |
| 18:40.53 | joshc | freebsd was my first love. |
| 18:41.00 | macnewbold | my first and last :) |
| 18:41.01 | joshc | but no reiserfs...alas.. |
| 18:41.08 | macnewbold | port it? |
| 18:41.08 | joshc | i cant live w/o reiser. :-( |
| 18:41.09 | natester | joshc: so do you like portage or what? |
| 18:41.19 | joshc | i've never used it. |
| 18:41.24 | joshc | portage that is. |
| 18:41.50 | joshc | mac - porting reiser..geeshh...that would hard. |
| 18:41.59 | natester | joshc: the package management system (portage) for gentoo is similar to BSDs ports system idk if it's freebsd or openbsd though |
| 18:42.00 | sjansen | Argh! I can't find that stinking page! |
| 18:42.00 | joshc | sounds like a killer project though. |
| 18:42.07 | Bradipo | joshc: My experience with reiser hasn't been all that great. |
| 18:42.20 | Bradipo | When it gets corrupted, it is really, really bad. |
| 18:42.24 | joshc | bradipo - really? i've had super excellent experiences with it. |
| 18:42.36 | Bradipo | Well, when it was working it was great. |
| 18:42.38 | joshc | never had a corruption problem before. what caused yours? |
| 18:42.45 | Bradipo | But if you ever get corruption, don't expect to be able to recover from it. |
| 18:42.56 | Bradipo | At least with ffs, or ext[23] you can manually patch things together. |
| 18:43.03 | Bradipo | File just started disappearing. |
| 18:43.05 | joshc | at scale8 (my previous startup) we ran reiserfs on about 6000 disk - never had file system problem. |
| 18:43.16 | Bradipo | Well, I'm not sure what caused it. |
| 18:43.22 | Bradipo | But it was unrecoverable. |
| 18:43.27 | joshc | did you check your disk - when disks get sick...very bad things happen. |
| 18:43.35 | stuporglue | I'm really stuck compiling gtk. It wants the JPEG loader. I've installed jpg from ijg.org, but no dice. |
| 18:43.41 | Bradipo | I have never lost files due to crashes on an ext[23] fs. |
| 18:43.42 | joshc | SMART tools are your friend. |
| 18:43.48 | Bradipo | It wasn't the disk. |
| 18:43.51 | Bradipo | This was on RAID. |
| 18:44.00 | joshc | lol - well, that might be your problem.. |
| 18:44.05 | Bradipo | Yeah, I guess. |
| 18:44.08 | joshc | RAID is a good way to lose data imho. |
| 18:44.22 | joshc | ext[23] has the dreaded fsck... |
| 18:44.41 | Bradipo | I would rather deal with a 20 minute fsck and recover the data, than have to tell someone all their files got lost. |
| 18:44.41 | joshc | which is a complete nightmare when running large systems |
| 18:45.00 | joshc | 20 minutes? i wish! |
| 18:45.02 | Bradipo | Yeah, it can be painful on a TB system. |
| 18:45.22 | joshc | anyway, it sounds like you had a very particular problem - one that i've never had. |
| 18:45.26 | Bradipo | It take about 60 minutes on our main filesystem, but it doesn't go down very often. |
| 18:45.28 | joshc | so maybe i've been lucky. |
| 18:45.29 | Bradipo | And we have UPSes. |
| 18:45.38 | Bradipo | Yeah, it may never happen again. |
| 18:45.46 | Bradipo | Could have been a bad version, bad compile, who knows. |
| 18:46.11 | Bradipo | Could have been that reiserfs was new at the time and had no business on a production server. :-) |
| 18:46.13 | joshc | ext3 pretends to be fsck-less...but its not. :-( |
| 18:46.17 | Bradipo | No, it isn't. |
| 18:46.38 | joshc | we started using reiser in 2000 iirc. |
| 18:46.43 | Bradipo | Yeah, same here. |
| 18:47.01 | joshc | it reduced our disk failure rate bigtime |
| 18:47.13 | joshc | less seeks (b-tree lookups) mean less duty cycle |
| 18:47.24 | joshc | which means less failure over 6000 disks.. |
| 18:47.43 | macnewbold | is that still a good reason to use Reiser on your 1-disk workstation? |
| 18:47.46 | joshc | running ext[23] we lost a disk every few days - when we switched to reiser, it was more like a disk a month. |
| 18:48.13 | Bradipo | That's a good argument for reiserfs. |
| 18:48.14 | joshc | mac - probably not. i dont think in terms of workstations though. ;-) |
| 18:48.14 | sjansen | wow, that's an impressive difference |
| 18:48.19 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@166.70.209.101) |
| 18:48.24 | joshc | it's an amazing difference. |
| 18:48.27 | Bradipo | THe more disks you have, the greater your chances that wear and tear show up on them. |
| 18:48.29 | joshc | law of large numbers. |
| 18:48.58 | joshc | everything matters when you are building super large systems. that's whats so fun about it!! |
| 18:49.07 | levi | joshc: Where do you work? |
| 18:49.10 | Bradipo | Had it happened to any other server other than our mail servers I probably wouldn't have been so burned. |
| 18:49.31 | Jayce^ | maybe it's about time to have another 'shootout' for plug... this time on filesystems.. |
| 18:49.32 | joshc | levi - berkeley data systems |
| 18:49.33 | Bradipo | I don't like messing around when it comes to email, that is a service that has low tolerance to failures. |
| 18:50.04 | Bradipo | So, are all these 6000 disks part of a large array or just individual? |
| 18:50.08 | *** join/#utah jsmith_ (~jsmith@pip.drs1.omniture.com) |
| 18:50.40 | joshc | i've built several big systems - the internet archive's petabyte system most recently, and then before that scale8 |
| 18:50.52 | joshc | ia's system is about 4K disks, s8's was about 6K disks. |
| 18:50.57 | joshc | between 4-8 disks per workstation |
| 18:51.11 | joshc | no raid (raid is bad for big systems - do the math..) |
| 18:51.22 | vontrapp | hmmm, i have tables a and b |
| 18:51.30 | vontrapp | a has many many lots of many entries |
| 18:51.34 | vontrapp | and table b has few |
| 18:51.57 | vontrapp | and they relate one entry in b to one in a |
| 18:52.30 | vontrapp | i can't decide whether i want to save space by putting the relating id in table b, or save time by putting it in a |
| 18:53.46 | vontrapp | time is the fire in which we burn, after all |
| 18:53.54 | sjansen | disk is cheap |
| 18:53.57 | hans | who's the nagios expert again? |
| 18:54.29 | hans | I can't figure out where/how on this status information message |
| 18:54.31 | hans | Warning threshold for 1-minute load average is not specified |
| 18:54.33 | Jayce^ | adminsmurf (Ned Hanks) gave the presentation |
| 18:55.19 | sjansen | I think I found it! |
| 18:55.42 | Bradipo | Sounds like a parameter may be missing for a plugin maybe? |
| 18:56.08 | joshc | its too bad the web pages are 'hard coded' in nagios. |
| 18:56.25 | jsmith_ | joshc: It's too bad Nagios doesn't use a database backend. |
| 18:56.54 | Bradipo | Anyone ever looked at scotty? |
| 18:56.55 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@166.70.209.92) |
| 18:57.09 | joshc | jsmith - i guess you could do fancy queries if it did.. |
| 18:57.10 | natester | Bradipo: yeah I played with scotty |
| 18:57.32 | natester | uh |
| 18:57.34 | Bradipo | I've tested it out a bit too, but never really deployed it. I was wondering if anyone else was using scotty in production. |
| 18:57.58 | natester | Bradipo: are you talking about that tcl network enumeration type tool? |
| 18:58.01 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 18:58.07 | Bradipo | http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~schoenw/scotty/ |
| 18:58.11 | natester | what part would you deploy? |
| 18:58.16 | natester | into production? |
| 18:58.44 | Bradipo | Well, use it in production. |
| 18:58.49 | Bradipo | As in use it to monitor systems ala nagios. |
| 18:59.27 | Bradipo | I don't recall if it had any alerting functionality. |
| 18:59.44 | *** part/#utah tierra|w (~tierra@dsl093-225-126.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:00.53 | natester | I never used agios |
| 19:00.55 | natester | nagios |
| 19:01.06 | Bradipo | scotty looks like it is a little more extensible than nagios. |
| 19:01.21 | natester | is it undergoing active developemnt? |
| 19:01.49 | Bradipo | Well, it may not need further development. Basically it provides you with the tools to build your own. |
| 19:02.06 | natester | Bradipo: heh, good point |
| 19:05.02 | natester | sourceforge should have another category: done |
| 19:05.14 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 19:07.50 | hans | i've toyed with writing a nagios knockoff back-end. I'll have to check out scotty |
| 19:08.59 | jsmith | hans: I'm starting to write one myself. |
| 19:09.06 | hans | oh? |
| 19:09.08 | jsmith | hans: Well, a few of us are... |
| 19:09.29 | jsmith | hans: And do it right -- database back end, make it designed to be distributed, etc. |
| 19:09.56 | hans | you've got my interest. anything up yet? mailing list? |
| 19:09.57 | jsmith | hans: front-end that doesn't have to re-parse the config files each time you hit a web page |
| 19:10.06 | jsmith | hans: No, not yet... been working on the database schema |
| 19:11.06 | joshc | we've got build something like that over here. |
| 19:11.13 | joshc | nagios doesnt scale over a few hundred nodes |
| 19:11.46 | joshc | something like syslogd + rrdtool may work |
| 19:12.35 | hans | jsmith: too early to contribute? |
| 19:12.47 | jsmith | joshc: It certainly doesn't scale to thousands of nodes, I can vouch for that. |
| 19:13.00 | jsmith | hans: Nope... let's start a project / mailing list / etc. |
| 19:13.09 | jsmith | hans: We're calling it Krull. |
| 19:13.13 | joshc | yeah, nagios is a dog at hundreds of nodes |
| 19:13.28 | Jayce^ | jsmith, oh, so it's a kde app? :-p |
| 19:13.36 | joshc | we're designing one to do 10K nodes |
| 19:13.36 | hans | it's a dog for just a few nodes too. overly complex. jsmith, is it going to be simple for the simple case? |
| 19:13.37 | jsmith | Jayce^: Heavens no! |
| 19:14.08 | Jayce^ | using nagios here, does ok, but the real problem is the config (gotta beat the admin for it..) |
| 19:14.13 | jsmith | hans: That's the plan... simple for the simple case, and almost as simple for the large-industrial-scale data centers |
| 19:14.20 | joshc | jsmith - so you're an omniture guy, eh? |
| 19:14.29 | jsmith | joshc: Yes, how did you guess? |
| 19:14.39 | hans | so let's push that ball. I'm sick of big brother here, and every time I start doing nagios I get sick |
| 19:14.40 | joshc | i didnt guess. i just looked up your info. |
| 19:14.50 | jsmith | That would work too... |
| 19:14.59 | joshc | are you an admin, or a dev guy? |
| 19:15.07 | Uncle_Jesse | jsmith: so, how can I get a nice lava lamp like my coworker got for Christmas? |
| 19:15.27 | Jayce^ | joshc, jsmith gave the (excellent) asterisk presentation last month |
| 19:15.28 | hans | lava lamps are passe. You want a laserpod. |
| 19:15.29 | jsmith | joshc: Sys-admin |
| 19:15.40 | Uncle_Jesse | oooh - I'll take one of those too |
| 19:15.43 | joshc | i missed it. :-( |
| 19:15.45 | macnewbold | oooh, lava lamps? or laserpods? both would make a nice addition to my office decor |
| 19:15.57 | *** join/#utah stuporglue (~stuporglu@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 19:16.11 | Uncle_Jesse | macnewbold: make friends with omniture - they give you things like that |
| 19:16.23 | Uncle_Jesse | and nice gift baskets too |
| 19:16.29 | joshc | jsmith - sounds fun. omniture has done well here in utah - gives me some hope! ;-) |
| 19:16.33 | macnewbold | so who do I talk to? |
| 19:16.47 | jsmith | macnewbold: Don't ask me... I only work here. :-) |
| 19:16.59 | jsmith | macnewbold: I don't work in the swag department. |
| 19:17.26 | sjansen | We have a laser pod here. It's lousy. Not bright enough. |
| 19:17.26 | Uncle_Jesse | macnewbold: call up their sales department and pay them lots of money |
| 19:17.26 | macnewbold | have a phone number for the schwag dept.? |
| 19:17.26 | jsmith | macnewbold: 801-722-7000 |
| 19:17.26 | Jayce^ | hey, we work next door (relatively).. |
| 19:17.28 | Jayce^ | should just send some over |
| 19:17.49 | jsmith | Right... |
| 19:17.57 | macnewbold | so who do I ask for? "Yes, the head schwag-meister please..." |
| 19:18.02 | Uncle_Jesse | lol |
| 19:18.22 | joshc | the road to dot-com failure is paved with schwag |
| 19:18.32 | Uncle_Jesse | my coworker has a cool clock from Omniture as well |
| 19:18.35 | jsmith | macnewbold: Ask for "Marketing" |
| 19:18.43 | macnewbold | joshc: only for the giver, not usually the recipient :) |
| 19:19.03 | sjansen | joshc: yeah, but for those of us that don't work for the doomed company, that doesn't matter |
| 19:19.05 | joshc | hehe..true. its funny when you see homeless people in san francisco wearing dot come schwag. |
| 19:19.14 | jsmith | So, anybody here a Dell PowerEdge genius? |
| 19:20.25 | joshc | the valkery needs food...badly... |
| 19:20.33 | joshc | the valkery is about to die! |
| 19:20.37 | jsmith | How do I get their stupid OpenManage software to install? |
| 19:20.43 | Jayce^ | jsmith, we use a bunch of them here.. |
| 19:21.00 | macnewbold | jsmith: if it's "OpenManage", you've got source, right? ;) |
| 19:21.02 | joshc | my gauntlet reference means " i need lunch." |
| 19:21.21 | macnewbold | I love that game, joshc! |
| 19:21.24 | sjansen | jsmith: step one, call Dell and ask for a decision maker to yell at |
| 19:21.25 | macnewbold | ~gauntlet++ |
| 19:21.30 | joshc | yeah, it was sweet. |
| 19:21.38 | Jayce^ | jsmith, coworker says 'what part of openmanage'... |
| 19:21.39 | joshc | anyway, i'll catchya'll later. |
| 19:21.42 | Jayce^ | we use just the drac part |
| 19:21.45 | macnewbold | methinks that XMission may have the arcade in the office... |
| 19:21.56 | joshc | ooh - we had podracers |
| 19:22.00 | jsmith | Jayce^: The "tell me when the power supplies / fans / drives die" part, not the DRAC part |
| 19:22.10 | joshc | just have to say before i go...full on podracers - they cost about $20K |
| 19:22.11 | jsmith | macnewbold: I've got the CD and the tarball, if that helps |
| 19:22.24 | joshc | but we had money to burn back then..anyway, l8r! |
| 19:22.25 | macnewbold | very cool, jsmith |
| 19:22.27 | *** part/#utah joshc (~josh@jcoates.org) |
| 19:22.27 | Jayce^ | jsmith, I can't help you there then :) |
| 19:22.52 | macnewbold | I may have to ask for the tarball when I send you the uphpu presentation I owe you... |
| 19:23.20 | jsmith | OK... |
| 19:23.37 | jsmith | This software is a piece of junk |
| 19:23.39 | hans | jsmith: any cute stories behind "krull"? |
| 19:23.55 | Uncle_Jesse | this sux - I want a Linux desktop |
| 19:23.58 | jsmith | hans: Yes. It came from the fact that nobody here can pronounce Nagios correctly. |
| 19:24.03 | Jayce^ | jsmith, agreed.. |
| 19:24.07 | hans | hehe |
| 19:24.19 | Uncle_Jesse | Our networking dept is taking away everyone's admin rights on their own desktop, even IT's |
| 19:24.19 | Jayce^ | 'nah-zhee-ohs' |
| 19:24.24 | jsmith | hans: Some people call it NAGious, some call it naj-eee-OHS |
| 19:24.33 | jsmith | hans: And come people call in NACHOS. |
| 19:24.33 | Uncle_Jesse | and us application developers |
| 19:24.49 | macnewbold | and some people just call it lame, or don't call it at all |
| 19:24.55 | jsmith | hans: So we wanted a more manly name -- think a penguin with a viking helmet, sword, shield, etc. |
| 19:25.01 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@byu147137wks.byu.edu) |
| 19:25.06 | Jayce^ | jsmith, so what language is it in? |
| 19:25.20 | jsmith | Jayce^: The database back-end is in Postgres |
| 19:25.26 | hans | so is it related to http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085811/ |
| 19:25.32 | jakea | hans! Sorry I missed our weekly Star Trek talk on Monday. |
| 19:25.40 | jsmith | Jayce^: Haven't written anything else yet -- probably PHP for the front-end, and either PHP or Python for the guts. |
| 19:25.44 | hans | that's ok, I didn't watch it til tuesday |
| 19:25.47 | Jayce^ | eek.. |
| 19:25.48 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 19:25.57 | jsmith | Jayce^: Then write it in Perl, will ya? |
| 19:26.02 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 19:26.09 | hans | jsmith: bring me on and I'll convert you all to ruby. ;) |
| 19:26.19 | jsmith | hans: I'd like to learn ruby, actually. |
| 19:26.31 | Jayce^ | just target parrot, then it doesn't matter :) |
| 19:26.39 | hans | I'll target parrot when it's here |
| 19:26.57 | Jayce^ | hans, actually, depending on your language, it's usable now :) |
| 19:27.05 | jsmith | I want IronPHP, dang it! |
| 19:27.10 | hans | puppet dictator. cool, I've never been a puppet dictator before. puppet, yes. dictator, yes. |
| 19:27.17 | Jayce^ | Dan had to implement some old language for his company, to get them off old sco boxes.. |
| 19:28.17 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@translate.sento.com) |
| 19:28.35 | stuporglue | Where would I get the "JPEG loader"? |
| 19:28.45 | Jayce^ | libjpg ? |
| 19:29.00 | hans | seriously, I can host a mailing list and web space easy enough - either at home or if we don't tell jayce, on the plug server. |
| 19:29.38 | hans | and anything else like source control or wiki ... |
| 19:29.42 | tensai | hans: what, over your 16kbps dsl line? |
| 19:29.47 | stuporglue | I thought it was libjpg, but I downloaded the package at ijg.org, compiled installed, and GKT still can't find it |
| 19:29.54 | hans | 256Kbps :-P |
| 19:30.10 | hans | but plug is on a much better connection |
| 19:31.15 | jsmith | hans: Something like CVS / Subversion / Arch would be cool... I could host it myself, but my server gets enough traffic right now |
| 19:31.29 | Jayce^ | only problem is disk space |
| 19:31.36 | *** part/#utah hatchmt (~hatchmt@66.239.25.55.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 19:31.48 | jsmith | This shouldn't take much... we're not writing millions of lines of code, or hosting big downloads |
| 19:32.35 | Jayce^ | only got like 8gb in there |
| 19:32.35 | jsmith | Just as long as it's getting backed up, I'm OK. |
| 19:32.35 | Jayce^ | heck, almost as much ram as disk :) |
| 19:32.35 | jsmith | RAMDISK! |
| 19:32.35 | Mac|zzZZzZZ | i hate snow |
| 19:33.24 | Mac|zzZZzZZ | you in utah? |
| 19:33.26 | Mac|zzZZzZZ | lol |
| 19:33.36 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 19:33.41 | tensai | jsmith, hans: keep me posted. I might be interested in such a project. |
| 19:33.59 | Jayce^ | tensai, just stay tuned, same bat channels :) |
| 19:34.21 | Mac|zzZZzZZ | i'm layton |
| 19:34.31 | hans | if people get mad at us for pirating #utah, we can set up #krull |
| 19:34.34 | Mac|zzZZzZZ | and its snowing up here |
| 19:34.44 | hans | otherwise I'm guessing you'll be posted just by hanging here. |
| 19:35.27 | vontrapp | i really hope it's snowing and not raining in park city |
| 19:35.30 | tensai | it's OSS and you're in utah. seems on topic to me. of course, we also go off about bread so I don't know how much you trust my judgement. |
| 19:35.30 | Jayce^ | macnerv, lucky.. GOSH... nothing here |
| 19:35.49 | Jayce^ | tensai, not to mention, you're in New Utah.... |
| 19:35.52 | Jayce^ | err, Idaho :) |
| 19:36.16 | *** topic/#utah by hans -> c The source for OSS focused communication in Utah. Check out sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, etc. | krull is on-topic |
| 19:36.19 | hans | there, it's official. |
| 19:36.21 | jakea | hans: So, Observer Effect, what didja think |
| 19:37.47 | hans | I liked it, mostly |
| 19:38.35 | jakea | it was nice to see the helm guy actually get more than 0 lines |
| 19:38.49 | jakea | even though it really wasn't him |
| 19:38.54 | hans | yeah, and the language specialist |
| 19:38.56 | stuporglue | I think I've built jibjpeg, but GKT+'s ./configure can't find it. How do I know where ./configure is looking and where the JPEG library went? |
| 19:39.19 | hans | what was she doing in the middle there? just crazy or was she trying to suicide or what? |
| 19:39.47 | jakea | I've done stupid things when I've been out of it cause of a fever |
| 19:39.51 | brailsmt_ | how do I read in stdin in a shell script? |
| 19:40.01 | hans | just do. |
| 19:40.19 | hans | or do you mean capture it into a variable or something? |
| 19:40.37 | brailsmt_ | hans: yeah, caputre it in a variable |
| 19:42.48 | brailsmt_ | i need to manipulate the input of the stuff that gets piped in |
| 19:43.38 | *** join/#utah sjansen-treo (~upirc@032-363-049.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 19:44.11 | hans | brailsmt_: maybe foo=`cat` ? |
| 19:44.27 | hans | oh, and there's read |
| 19:44.41 | hans | if you're looking for answers to prompts and the like |
| 19:46.03 | goozbach | ~lart sjansen-treo |
| 19:47.21 | goozbach | gotta love the treo |
| 19:47.40 | *** join/#utah dax-treo (~upirc@001-796-370.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 19:47.57 | sjansen-treo | no, gotta love bajio's |
| 19:48.08 | goozbach | that you do |
| 19:48.27 | dax-treo | what are you guys ordering? |
| 19:48.55 | goozbach | taquitos |
| 19:49.02 | sjansen-treo | the pizza, see what it's like |
| 19:49.37 | goozbach | and you? |
| 19:49.41 | brigham | and you are listening |
| 19:49.42 | jsmith | shrimp tacos |
| 19:50.19 | dax-treo | shrimp mango tacos |
| 19:50.36 | macnerv | what are taquitos? |
| 19:50.57 | macnerv | sorry i dont eat mexican food... that much very rarely |
| 19:51.51 | dax-treo | deep fried burritos basically |
| 19:51.59 | jsmith | macnerv: Little rolled-up tacos. |
| 19:52.00 | macnerv | ah okay |
| 19:52.09 | dax-treo | at least that's what they look like |
| 19:52.10 | macnerv | ah... |
| 19:52.34 | macnerv | my family most southern, italian, and irish food |
| 19:53.00 | jsmith | Hmmmmnnnn... southern food. |
| 19:53.04 | macnerv | yep |
| 19:53.09 | dax-treo | sushi's my fav |
| 19:53.14 | jsmith | macnerv: You know what the four food groups of the south are, right? |
| 19:53.18 | macnerv | Born and Raised out of Tennessee |
| 19:53.22 | dax-treo | then Thai |
| 19:53.32 | jsmith | macnerv: Grits, Greens, Gravy, and Greese |
| 19:53.42 | sjansen-treo | everything latin and brazilian |
| 19:53.44 | jsmith | dax-treo: I didn't know you liked sushi. |
| 19:53.45 | scott_ | tacos, where? |
| 19:53.47 | macnerv | your fogettin one thing |
| 19:53.55 | jsmith | macnerv: Catfish, I know. |
| 19:54.00 | macnerv | yep |
| 19:54.01 | jsmith | macnerv: But it doesn't start with G. |
| 19:54.02 | macnerv | mmmmmmmmm |
| 19:54.11 | macnerv | it dont matter |
| 19:54.13 | jsmith | macnerv: I know, I know. My wife is from Missippi. |
| 19:54.18 | macnerv | its Major in the South |
| 19:54.19 | macnerv | lol |
| 19:54.22 | macnerv | nice |
| 19:54.32 | macnerv | jsmith does your wife work at focus? |
| 19:54.48 | jsmith | macnerv: Nope... she works at home :-) |
| 19:54.56 | macnerv | ah okay |
| 19:55.14 | macnerv | i met a ladie from Mississippi |
| 19:55.22 | macnerv | but she was racist |
| 19:55.36 | *** join/#utah spiderbiter (~spiderbit@dpc693562074.direcpc.com) |
| 19:55.46 | emcnabb | sjansen, how's lunch? |
| 19:55.54 | dax-treo | jsmith: Brett Error and I downed a whole bunch of sushi yesterday |
| 19:56.09 | macnerv | i cannot stand sushi |
| 19:56.13 | jsmith | dax-treo: Why didn't you invite me along? |
| 19:56.46 | *** join/#utah emcnabb-treo (~upirc@032-271-865.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 19:57.29 | emcnabb-treo | I feel left out :-( |
| 19:57.32 | dax-treo | didn't know you liked sushi |
| 19:58.06 | emcnabb-treo | I love it |
| 19:58.51 | goozbach | i can eat it |
| 19:59.02 | goozbach | it's not my fav |
| 19:59.46 | emcnabb-treo | there's a place near here called The Happy Sumo |
| 19:59.53 | emcnabb-treo | almost went last night |
| 19:59.54 | Jayce^ | bleh.. |
| 20:00.22 | jsmith | emcnabb-treo: It's decent sushi... |
| 20:00.25 | emcnabb-treo | I prefer sashimi |
| 20:01.08 | macnewbold | oh, all you treo folk... just trying to make us all jealous... |
| 20:01.21 | macnewbold | how much does a treo cost these days? |
| 20:01.23 | goozbach | yup |
| 20:01.41 | jsmith | Yeah, and I'll bet it's really hard to type long sentences with that tiny little thumbpad. |
| 20:01.44 | scott_ | any investors here? to buy an index fund such as vanguard, do you have to have an account with them? |
| 20:01.50 | brailsmt_ | macnewbold: you know you could just add a '-treo' to your nick and no one would know the difference |
| 20:01.52 | goozbach | got mine for 450 |
| 20:02.11 | macnewbold | what monthly costs does it bring? |
| 20:02.13 | mrpull | holy cow. MPAA at it again: http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/59566 |
| 20:02.32 | emcnabb-treo | I've had plenty of Cheesecake Factory recently |
| 20:02.34 | dax-treo | goozbach: it isn't your fav because mr cnet picked a so so place that night in san fran |
| 20:03.06 | goozbach | yup |
| 20:03.16 | goozbach | it wasnt bad |
| 20:03.16 | emcnabb-treo | $15 / month for ulimited data |
| 20:03.21 | dax-treo | utah needs a cheesecake factory BADLY |
| 20:03.37 | emcnabb-treo | yes, it does |
| 20:04.00 | goozbach | that is my fav |
| 20:04.04 | emcnabb-treo | that's where you take a girl to make up after a fight |
| 20:04.10 | goozbach | mmmm cheesecake |
| 20:04.20 | levi | Mmm, cheesecake factory. |
| 20:04.34 | spr | mmm.. cheesecake factory |
| 20:04.40 | macnewbold | emcnabb-treo: do you have to get cell phone service with it too, or can you just get the data? |
| 20:04.55 | macnewbold | or, if phone service is required, does verizon do treos? |
| 20:05.04 | emcnabb-treo | I think you need the service in addition |
| 20:05.31 | fozz | You're all gonna die of diabetes! |
| 20:05.36 | emcnabb-treo | I ate there monday and last night |
| 20:05.47 | dax-treo | bang bang chicken and shrimp is where its at |
| 20:06.02 | emcnabb-treo | tuesday I went to a seafood place next door |
| 20:06.29 | emcnabb-treo | I had that last night |
| 20:06.44 | vontrapp | anyone ever used the osx built in vpn? |
| 20:06.55 | Jayce^ | vontrapp, yeah, the pptp one |
| 20:07.03 | vontrapp | how is it? |
| 20:07.06 | dax-treo | jsmith...which one? Las Vegas? |
| 20:07.12 | Jayce^ | meh, works fine, for pptp.. |
| 20:07.26 | vontrapp | what kind of addressing can you do? |
| 20:07.32 | Jayce^ | only problems with it are that you connect to it, and it only |
| 20:07.35 | vontrapp | is it similar to the way openvpn works? |
| 20:07.48 | emcnabb-treo | tuesday I had a flounder stuffed with crab and topped with lobster sauce. it had little shrimp on top... yummy |
| 20:07.56 | vontrapp | that might be sufficient for our needs |
| 20:07.56 | Jayce^ | supposedly with addons, you can route externally, and to the vpn, but I couldn't get it to work |
| 20:08.21 | vontrapp | can you use dhcp type things to give specific addresses to computers? |
| 20:08.50 | dax-treo | mcnabb: did you take workout clothes w/ you? :) |
| 20:09.02 | goozbach | the seafood equivvlent of a turdunken? |
| 20:09.03 | emcnabb-treo | nope |
| 20:09.17 | emcnabb-treo | I've given up |
| 20:10.21 | goozbach | you almost made it throug jan |
| 20:10.56 | emcnabb-treo | goozbach, I start next week |
| 20:11.20 | emcnabb-treo | (again) |
| 20:11.48 | dax-treo | any WoW players in here? |
| 20:12.00 | emcnabb-treo | back to work |
| 20:12.03 | emcnabb-treo | later |
| 20:12.24 | Jayce^ | dax-treo, yeah |
| 20:12.26 | *** part/#utah emcnabb-treo (~upirc@032-271-865.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 20:12.27 | Jayce^ | perenolde |
| 20:12.44 | dax-treo | realm? |
| 20:12.44 | Jayce^ | which server(s) you on? |
| 20:12.51 | Jayce^ | perenolde |
| 20:12.56 | dax-treo | Doomhammer |
| 20:13.01 | Jayce^ | hehe.. laghammer |
| 20:13.22 | Jayce^ | got a few coworkers on there, they've largely moved to new chars on perenolde too |
| 20:13.36 | dax-treo | this week has been good |
| 20:14.58 | dax-treo | it seems that chinese gold farmers are invading WoW |
| 20:15.04 | Jayce^ | yeah, everybody jumping onto my realm :) |
| 20:15.17 | Jayce^ | ebaying gold.. |
| 20:15.29 | Jayce^ | just beef up your leather, sell, PROFIT |
| 20:16.03 | dax-treo | Every realm has a 'chupacabra' and the CCTV guild |
| 20:16.43 | Jayce^ | CCTV? |
| 20:17.53 | dax-treo | it is a guild where all members feed all loot and gold to chupacabra |
| 20:18.20 | dax-treo | chupacabra sells loot at AH |
| 20:18.22 | *** part/#utah sjansen-treo (~upirc@032-363-049.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 20:18.28 | dax-treo | the ebays the gold |
| 20:18.47 | dax-treo | then |
| 20:19.05 | Jayce^ | interesting |
| 20:19.32 | dax-treo | farmers get a percentage if they meet a quota |
| 20:19.41 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@208.186.180.204) |
| 20:19.54 | Jayce^ | was that in forums or something? |
| 20:20.39 | dax-treo | it is screwing up the economy |
| 20:20.47 | dax-treo | at least the in game one |
| 20:21.05 | Jayce^ | right, they keep stealing the loot, crapflooding the market |
| 20:22.06 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 20:22.48 | drewbono | Anyone in here that works for CAEDM? |
| 20:23.02 | dax-treo | the back row of sjansen's car has little leg room when goozbach is in the front see |
| 20:23.02 | dax-treo | seat |
| 20:24.33 | emcnabb | dax-treo, at least his stereo is broken |
| 20:24.43 | emcnabb | I used to have to listen to sjansen music every morning |
| 20:25.00 | goozbach | sorry man |
| 20:25.09 | emcnabb | I know |
| 20:25.30 | emcnabb | it was emotionally scarring |
| 20:25.39 | goozbach | the sorry was for dax |
| 20:25.51 | emcnabb | oh, ok |
| 20:25.58 | emcnabb | both are horrible things |
| 20:26.20 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 20:29.26 | dax-treo | back to work |
| 20:29.27 | *** part/#utah dax-treo (~upirc@001-796-370.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 20:30.26 | goozbach | and by work he means WOW |
| 20:31.42 | Jayce^ | I tell ya, they put a secret chemical in it.. |
| 20:41.12 | byronc | sjansen: where did you get this hot sauce? |
| 20:41.41 | sjansen | Bajio's, but you can get it at most grocery stores. I've got a few bottles at home. |
| 20:42.01 | hans | drewbono: I used to work at caedm |
| 20:42.08 | sjansen | http://www.cholula.com/ |
| 20:42.29 | Jayce^ | ah, just cholula.. thought you had *hot* sauce |
| 20:42.32 | sjansen | I think the reason I can't stop thinking about it, is I forgot to add it to the food until the meal was almost over. |
| 20:42.34 | hans | selena's has bottles of cholula on every table. </restaurant_plug> |
| 20:42.35 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 20:42.57 | Jayce^ | and they're open now :-p |
| 20:43.05 | hans | and free sopaipillas with meal |
| 20:43.08 | hans | limited time only! |
| 20:43.15 | sjansen | Jayce^: I like to be able to _taste_ my food, not just the sauce. |
| 20:44.05 | Jayce^ | sjansen, wuss :-p |
| 20:44.28 | sjansen | Jayce^: masochist |
| 20:44.35 | Jayce^ | sjansen, remember the spice rub for the steaks :) |
| 20:44.58 | Jayce^ | hey, it's proven that the endorphin rush received from a capsaicin hit is addictive... |
| 20:45.04 | sjansen | http://cholulastore.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=5 <-- Is it just me, or is that a guy? |
| 20:45.04 | Jayce^ | so there's an excuse .. |
| 20:45.29 | Jayce^ | (actually, I don't eat that much super hot stuff, just use small amounts for proper flavor) |
| 20:46.22 | sjansen | For the life of me, I can't why anyone would pay that much for an inflatable bottle or a 20" display model. |
| 20:46.26 | Bradipo | Jayce^: That must be why I like Dave |
| 20:46.31 | Bradipo | 's insanity sauce. |
| 20:46.42 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, very good stuff there |
| 20:46.54 | Bradipo | You know what the hottest stuff is though? |
| 20:47.01 | Bradipo | Rated in Scoville units. |
| 20:47.06 | Jayce^ | there are a few, but no way I'm ever affording them :) |
| 20:47.10 | Jayce^ | deathshead :) |
| 20:47.34 | Bradipo | The hottest stuff is Caldera, rated over 10 million scoville units (could be higher). |
| 20:47.42 | Bradipo | But Caldera is $250 a bottle. |
| 20:47.42 | Jayce^ | probalby is too.. |
| 20:47.50 | Jayce^ | exactly why I'm not affording it :) |
| 20:47.54 | Bradipo | same here. |
| 20:48.00 | hans | sheesh |
| 20:48.01 | Bradipo | But I still want to give it a try. :-) |
| 20:48.01 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@38.116.3.194) |
| 20:48.09 | Jayce^ | I'll just keep mixing my peppers in my grinder on my own.. |
| 20:48.10 | hans | |lart emcnabb |
| 20:48.15 | Bradipo | Haha. |
| 20:48.16 | byronc | mmm, Dave's Insanity Sauce is good stuff |
| 20:48.35 | hans | ~buy emcnabb |
| 20:48.37 | Bradipo | Dave's is good if all you want is pure heat. |
| 20:48.45 | Jayce^ | what's funny is my wife's grandma about had a heart attack when she found out I was using a good coffee grinder for chilis |
| 20:49.12 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, it's great when making chili, or similar crock pot type things |
| 20:49.17 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 20:49.32 | sjansen | Jayce^: did she find out the hard way? |
| 20:49.35 | Bradipo | Yeah, coffee grinder for chilis... that's different. |
| 20:49.54 | Jayce^ | I saw a guy taste it in their store once.. he had been bragging he could take any heat.. they barely touched the dauber to a chip, a slight dot.. |
| 20:49.58 | Jayce^ | he fell to his kneees |
| 20:50.18 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, actually, quite common.. great way to grind/mix your spices/peppers |
| 20:50.26 | Jayce^ | most chef's use one just for that |
| 20:50.51 | Jayce^ | only thing I don't like about mine, is it's not battery powered.. but it's got plenty of power |
| 20:53.58 | Jayce^ | throw in a few dried chilies, some peppercorns, etc.. instant rub |
| 20:54.35 | Uncle_Jesse | Anyone wanna buy my Handspring Visor off Ebay? |
| 20:55.21 | Uncle_Jesse | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5747393356&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT |
| 20:56.33 | Bradipo | Yeah, my sister started crying the first/last time she tried Dave's. |
| 20:57.07 | Bradipo | A guy I know thought he was tough and put a teaspoon on a piece of bread, despite our suggestions that he try just a drop. |
| 20:57.15 | Bradipo | He was sick for at least 3 days afterwards. |
| 20:58.21 | Jayce^ | wingers often has some dave's |
| 20:58.26 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 20:58.32 | Jayce^ | as well as the more common sauces.. |
| 20:58.39 | Jayce^ | their Jerk sauce is excellent |
| 20:58.39 | Bradipo | You can buy it at Pirate O's |
| 20:58.47 | Jayce^ | pirate o's? |
| 20:58.53 | Bradipo | Its an import store up in Draper. |
| 20:59.08 | Bradipo | I haven't seen Dave's anywhere else in Utah. |
| 20:59.11 | Jayce^ | when in KS, they open a store in the mall there for just between Thanksgiving, and christmas |
| 20:59.18 | Jayce^ | with all their products |
| 20:59.24 | Jayce^ | free samples, as much as you want.. |
| 20:59.25 | Bradipo | Of course you can buy it online. |
| 20:59.28 | Jayce^ | lotsa chips |
| 20:59.29 | byronc | Macey's in Orem sells Dave's |
| 20:59.36 | Bradipo | Haha, doesn't take much of a sample. |
| 20:59.38 | Jayce^ | Drinks cost an arm and a leg |
| 20:59.51 | Jayce^ | albertsons sometimes carries their sauces |
| 21:00.20 | Jayce^ | I still have some 99%, Pain, X, and some other stuff |
| 21:00.27 | Jayce^ | their peanuts and popcorn are great |
| 21:02.04 | vontrapp | akh, the only thing worse than an html email is a multipart text/html email where the text part is exactly the same as the html claiming to be text/plain |
| 21:04.49 | Bradipo | With all the HTML tags in there still? |
| 21:05.28 | Bradipo | My favorite is the kind that doesn't even use MIME and just dumps HTML in the body of the message (but isn't actually text/html) so it shows up as just text. |
| 21:05.53 | vontrapp | well, no actually, looks like they just stripped the tags, but the whole thing is one line, no \n's at all |
| 21:06.07 | vontrapp | might as well be html |
| 21:07.18 | vontrapp | e.g. there's a table type thing in there that is completely unreadable |
| 21:08.05 | vontrapp | well, all i had to do was view the attachments and select the html one and it opened in firefox :p |
| 21:08.32 | sjansen | oh, it _that_ all |
| 21:09.40 | vontrapp | laugh all you want, there's no way i'll ever use g-mail or the likes, except for trash addresses |
| 21:10.12 | Bradipo | Yeah, I don't use gmail for anything serious. |
| 21:10.26 | Bradipo | More of a curiosity than anything useful. |
| 21:11.52 | macnerv | anyone seen the new look on Mephis? |
| 21:14.21 | brailsmt_ | and evolution |
| 21:14.23 | brailsmt_ | at work |
| 21:14.26 | brailsmt_ | i prefer mutt |
| 21:14.31 | macnerv | k |
| 21:15.42 | hans | q |
| 21:15.50 | tene | :wq |
| 21:15.52 | macnerv | yes? |
| 21:16.07 | brailsmt_ | :wqa |
| 21:16.09 | macnewbold | tene: wrong window? |
| 21:16.11 | brailsmt_ | :wqa! |
| 21:16.24 | scott_ | any PHPers here that can help me out with passwords/sessions? |
| 21:16.34 | macnewbold | some in here, some in #uphpu, scott_ |
| 21:17.22 | bigdog_ut | scott_, check #uphpu |
| 21:17.28 | bigdog_ut | many there |
| 21:17.58 | scott_ | I found http://pastebin.com/234323 at php.net but it's not working for me. the first time I go to the page it pulls up the login screen, I login, and it shows me the page it should, but when i fill out a form that's on that page and submit it shows me the login screen again, making me think that maybe the session variables aren't working right |
| 21:22.32 | sjansen | PHP sessions are horked anyway, that's my opinion |
| 21:22.45 | sjansen | too unreliable, in my experience |
| 21:35.31 | levi | Man, watching gcc build makes me anxious. |
| 21:36.00 | hans | anxious? like the feeling that your computer is about to blow up? |
| 21:36.07 | hans | or like you're impatient? |
| 21:36.16 | levi | Like the feeling that it's about to blow up. |
| 21:36.34 | levi | Because most of my attempted builds fail somewhere along the way. |
| 21:36.51 | hans | ah. isn't that a good feeling. |
| 21:37.30 | levi | Ahh, the fun of building toolchains for an arch that isn't in the mainstream toolchain source. |
| 21:37.31 | goozbach | levi: you sound like a good canidate for gentoo :) |
| 21:37.43 | levi | goozbach: I tried gentoo. I don't like it. |
| 21:38.08 | sjansen | ~lart MUAs that hash headers, and bums who don't trim |
| 21:38.15 | sjansen | combine the two, and it sure does make reading archives harder |
| 21:39.43 | vontrapp | what is the header hash problem? |
| 21:41.43 | *** join/#utah auto (~auto@64.136.200.212) |
| 21:42.25 | auto | Does anyone know a way I could get in touch with Jared Smith? |
| 21:42.36 | sjansen | ~poke jsmith |
| 21:42.38 | ibot | but then who will poke the pokers, sjansen? |
| 21:43.02 | vontrapp | |prod jsmith |
| 21:43.07 | Jayce^ | ~jsmith |
| 21:43.13 | Jayce^ | ~seen jsmith |
| 21:43.14 | ibot | jsmith is currently on #utah. Has said a total of 50 messages. Is idling for 1h 41m 33s |
| 21:43.32 | jsmith | Hey, I"m here... |
| 21:43.36 | hans | or perhaps you're looking for Jayce^ Mith |
| 21:44.04 | jsmith | auto: I'm here... what's up? |
| 21:44.21 | Jayce^ | hans? |
| 21:44.32 | brigham | hans is My master! or the vimmeister or a poopy pants |
| 21:44.32 | vontrapp | Jayce^: read aloud |
| 21:44.40 | Jayce^ | ahhh |
| 21:46.47 | jakea | Jayce^: I did it right this time |
| 21:49.40 | Uncle_Jesse | So who's this "Solo Han" that mentioned the Celestial Kingdom on /.? |
| 21:49.53 | Jayce^ | Uncle_Jesse, link? |
| 21:50.21 | Jayce^ | jakea, did what right? |
| 21:51.14 | jakea | Posted the book news |
| 21:51.22 | Jayce^ | ah |
| 21:54.31 | Uncle_Jesse | Jayce^: http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/26/2118208&tid=153&tid=4 |
| 21:58.00 | levi | Celestial Kingdom is another name for China. |
| 21:59.12 | Uncle_Jesse | Never heard that nickname before |
| 22:00.04 | goozbach | if you read "The Diamond Age" by Stephenson he refers to China excusively by CK |
| 22:01.35 | goozbach | the first time I came across the term I had to look it up |
| 22:09.37 | levi | Woo! I finally got gcc to build! |
| 22:10.28 | macnewbold | ? how long did it take? |
| 22:11.34 | hans | all day! what do you think! |
| 22:16.36 | levi | It's taken me about a week to get it working right. If it is working right. |
| 22:16.58 | levi | I've had it built before, but there were always problems. |
| 22:17.23 | hans | sorry, I've been overexposed to nap-d recently |
| 22:17.35 | levi | nap-d? |
| 22:17.42 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 22:18.34 | hans | napoleon |
| 22:21.28 | levi | Ahh. |
| 22:21.49 | levi | Well, I compiled a hello world binary, but I have no way of testing it at present. |
| 22:22.07 | levi | And the include path isn't quite right. |
| 22:23.18 | *** join/#utah joshc (~josh@jcoates.org) |
| 22:24.07 | joshc | peregrine falcon...reminds me of a funny thing that happened |
| 22:24.19 | joshc | about 3 months ago, i awoke to a loud THUD at our bedroom window. |
| 22:24.34 | joshc | i looked outside, and saw this huge coopers hawk, dead. |
| 22:24.42 | joshc | and a big 'hawk print' on our window. |
| 22:25.40 | joshc | the utah fish & game people came to take it away- said they were gonna stuff it and put it in some museum at/near byu. |
| 22:26.11 | sjansen | ~lart MySQL for creating a generation of coders that think they know SQL but don't |
| 22:27.42 | jakea | darn my generation |
| 22:28.08 | levi | kids these days |
| 22:28.19 | levi | I think I don't know sql, and I'm right. |
| 22:28.35 | jakea | I've never met SQL, is he nice? |
| 22:29.24 | levi | Yes, if you like sets. |
| 22:29.29 | joshc | so does anyone actually like applebeer? |
| 22:29.46 | levi | I love Apple Beer. |
| 22:29.51 | levi | Mmm, so good. |
| 22:29.57 | joshc | ugh. yeah - i'm not a fan. |
| 22:30.00 | jakea | I tried Ginger Beer once |
| 22:30.02 | jakea | blah |
| 22:30.05 | levi | I also like really strong ginger ale. |
| 22:30.07 | joshc | a very good friend of mine is married to the owner of apple beer. |
| 22:30.16 | joshc | they always serve it when we come over for dinner. |
| 22:30.29 | joshc | ginger beer is okay for sipping. |
| 22:30.58 | joshc | the neat thing, that she can tell me all about how soda is made. |
| 22:31.13 | joshc | and why henry weinhards root beer tastes so good |
| 22:31.14 | levi | I had this stuff once, Blenheim Ginger Ale. Man, that's some powerful juice. |
| 22:31.21 | levi | joshc: Why is that? |
| 22:31.38 | joshc | well, they use vanilla and also lots of yucca plant |
| 22:31.46 | jakea | Ginger beer tasted like it was okay for my car |
| 22:31.49 | joshc | i guess the yucca plant gives it a really thick head |
| 22:32.17 | levi | You have to be careful not to inhale while you're drinking Blenheim ginger ale, as it can lead to coughing spasms. |
| 22:32.20 | joshc | but i'm not a big alcohol supporter, so i feel bad drinking their root beer |
| 22:32.33 | Jayce^ | joshc, lots of starches.. that's what makes it work |
| 22:32.34 | levi | I don't feel bad, because it's really yummy! |
| 22:32.45 | joshc | is yucca a starch? |
| 22:32.49 | Jayce^ | Thomas Kemper Root beer |
| 22:32.51 | Jayce^ | joshc, yeah |
| 22:32.53 | hans | oh my yes |
| 22:32.58 | joshc | thomas kemper is pretty good. honey. |
| 22:33.06 | Jayce^ | in Brasil, it is commonly used as a replacement for potato |
| 22:33.08 | joshc | thats the honey one, right? |
| 22:33.13 | hans | I love eating yucca. a lot of people can't like it because it's so starchy though. |
| 22:33.14 | joshc | ah. |
| 22:33.16 | goozbach | in miami they have this barley drink called malta |
| 22:33.22 | goozbach | it's interesting |
| 22:33.29 | goozbach | really really heavy |
| 22:33.37 | joshc | i used to brew root beer - with yeast (not the cheezy dry ice method) |
| 22:33.38 | Jayce^ | Thomas Kemper started about 1/2 mile from my house (lived in the sticks).. at an old meat packing plant near a farm |
| 22:33.42 | levi | Thomas Kemper is good, but not quite as good as Henry Weinhard's. |
| 22:33.45 | macnewbold | malta is in other countries too... they had it in argentina when I was down there |
| 22:33.46 | goozbach | it's like un-fermented beer which hasn't been filtered |
| 22:33.48 | Jayce^ | Their stuff is the mest |
| 22:33.58 | macnewbold | joshc: how long does it take to brew? |
| 22:34.09 | joshc | not long - and it usually turns out really bad |
| 22:34.10 | joshc | lol |
| 22:34.12 | Jayce^ | mandioca :) |
| 22:34.19 | Jayce^ | sjansen, farofa :) |
| 22:34.22 | goozbach | home-brewed rootbeer is good |
| 22:34.25 | joshc | either too yeasty, or too flat, or too sugary |
| 22:34.30 | joshc | its really hard. |
| 22:34.31 | macnewbold | ah |
| 22:34.36 | macnewbold | then I better stick with dry ice :) |
| 22:34.47 | joshc | if you want to drink it, then yes. ;-) |
| 22:34.57 | levi | I buy cases of Thomas Kemper stuff from Costco. I like their ginger ale. |
| 22:35.09 | levi | It's strong, but not undrinkably so. |
| 22:35.10 | Jayce^ | levi, yeah, only place you can get it down here |
| 22:35.11 | joshc | jayce, so thomas kemper is from lehi? |
| 22:35.20 | Jayce^ | joshc, no, Poulsbo Washington :) |
| 22:35.23 | macnewbold | the malta I've had is a malted barley drink, kind of like a coffee substitute of sorts... reminds me of pero or one of those others (was sanka one?) |
| 22:35.26 | joshc | ah. i see. |
| 22:35.26 | levi | Jayce^: I've seen it in Albertsons. |
| 22:35.41 | joshc | i used to drink thomas kemper in berkeley a lot. |
| 22:35.42 | jakea | Albretsens? |
| 22:35.49 | Jayce^ | levi, cool, I've never seen it there.. |
| 22:35.51 | jakea | on Albertson, not me |
| 22:36.00 | jakea | -on +oh |
| 22:36.05 | levi | macnewbold: Like Postum? |
| 22:36.09 | Jayce^ | ewww, postum |
| 22:36.11 | macnewbold | caldo with lime may make me throw up just thinking about it |
| 22:36.13 | macnewbold | yeah, levi |
| 22:36.19 | levi | Yeah, ew. |
| 22:36.20 | macnewbold | best served w/lots of sugar :) |
| 22:36.24 | joshc | i used to have a great root beer bottle collection...but it was accidentally thrown out. :-( |
| 22:36.25 | Jayce^ | sjansen, bife com cebola |
| 22:36.28 | macnewbold | only way it's tolerable |
| 22:36.30 | levi | I made my little brother eat a spoonful of dry postum mix once. |
| 22:36.36 | levi | I think he still holds it against me. |
| 22:36.41 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 22:36.43 | macnewbold | probably |
| 22:36.43 | joshc | lol. that's awful. |
| 22:36.56 | Jayce^ | sjansen, you like suco de cajú? |
| 22:37.02 | sjansen | macnerv: caldo _with_ sugar?! |
| 22:37.07 | levi | Probably worse than the milkbone I talked him into eating, too. |
| 22:37.23 | Jayce^ | milkbones are actually better than most food we eat.. |
| 22:37.27 | Jayce^ | quite good for you |
| 22:37.31 | sjansen | Jayce^: so so, what I miss is maracuja and limonada |
| 22:37.32 | joshc | ever seen real southeast asian fish sauce being made? |
| 22:37.48 | Jayce^ | maracujá was *the* best... |
| 22:37.49 | joshc | terrible. you'll never eat thai again. |
| 22:37.50 | levi | That sounds scary. |
| 22:37.59 | levi | Oh, I'd still eat thai. |
| 22:38.01 | hans | fish sauce is scary |
| 22:38.04 | joshc | lol |
| 22:38.09 | hans | I can't imagine seeing it made |
| 22:38.14 | joshc | i cant eat thai, or cambodian. |
| 22:38.19 | levi | How do they make it? |
| 22:38.25 | joshc | it starts with a tupperware tub |
| 22:38.26 | Jayce^ | joshc, you should see *real* "brasilian chili" :) |
| 22:38.36 | joshc | and they put a bunch of dead fish in it |
| 22:38.38 | joshc | with some water |
| 22:38.48 | hans | every country has gross stuff, and everyone eats something gross |
| 22:38.49 | joshc | then they put it in the cabinet under their sink |
| 22:38.56 | joshc | and leave it there for weeks. |
| 22:38.57 | hans | here we hide it. it's called fast food |
| 22:39.01 | Jayce^ | sounds like making kim-chi |
| 22:39.03 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 22:39.12 | joshc | anyway, eventually the fish rots. |
| 22:39.17 | sjansen | carne de sol |
| 22:39.26 | joshc | the weird liquid that is left, they put in a bottle and call it fish sauce. |
| 22:39.35 | levi | Mmm, fish sauce. |
| 22:39.36 | joshc | yum. hey jayce, whats in brazilian chili? |
| 22:40.07 | Jayce^ | lets just say my favorite memory, was when a greenie, first meal, dipped his spool, and pulled out a snout :) |
| 22:40.17 | joshc | oh boy. |
| 22:40.19 | Jayce^ | leftover pig parts, ears (with hair), tail, etc.. |
| 22:40.19 | joshc | that's awful. |
| 22:40.34 | sjansen | oh, you mean feijoada |
| 22:40.38 | Jayce^ | we had more missionaries get sick from that dish, than all other things combined in my mission |
| 22:40.45 | Jayce^ | sjansen, exactly |
| 22:40.56 | hans | jsmith: the first 1/2 or 1/4 second of my answer gets cut off. |
| 22:41.01 | sjansen | paulistas don't make traditional feijoada |
| 22:41.10 | Jayce^ | they'd always pawn it off as chili to americans.. "Just like you eat at home" |
| 22:41.20 | joshc | i really like american food. |
| 22:41.26 | hans | chili? you call feijoada chili? |
| 22:41.30 | Jayce^ | sjansen, no, they don't.. theirs is much more like american, relatively.. |
| 22:41.31 | joshc | everyone always thought i was from the midwest. |
| 22:41.37 | Jayce^ | hans, no, it's what *they* call it |
| 22:41.47 | hans | don't they call it feijoada? |
| 22:42.00 | Jayce^ | hans, sure, but when explaining it to americans... etc.. |
| 22:42.17 | sjansen | hans: they never called it chili in Sao Paulo |
| 22:42.26 | hans | mm, ok. if you say so. The brazilians in my mission just called it feijoadad |
| 22:42.34 | Jayce^ | it's like the translation you'd see in a dictionary |
| 22:42.57 | hans | and I liked it. they may be more tame in the city though |
| 22:43.15 | Jayce^ | hans, it is.. southern areas a much more 'moderate'.. |
| 22:43.26 | Jayce^ | Minas is closer to Bahia and places, that are more traditional |
| 22:44.23 | sjansen | one of the best meal I had in Brazil was made by a family of mineiros |
| 22:44.44 | sjansen | the only spicy meal I had my entire mission |
| 22:44.55 | Jayce^ | sjansen, and they probably told you how good the cheese was back home (they were lying) |
| 22:45.01 | jsmith | hans: Then put a Wait(1) after the Answer() |
| 22:45.08 | Jayce^ | sjansen, probably from the north then.. Bahiano influence |
| 22:45.35 | Jayce^ | I remember the shock I would get, from carrying around black pepper to put on my food... |
| 22:45.42 | Jayce^ | they thought it made you sick.. |
| 22:46.05 | tene | o.O |
| 22:46.10 | sjansen | paulistas too |
| 22:46.13 | joshc | so do you guys hang out on orkut much? i believe it's mostly south american nowadays. |
| 22:46.25 | sjansen | mostly brazilians, and no |
| 22:46.26 | Jayce^ | haven't logged in since the beginning |
| 22:46.44 | joshc | yeah, those social networks sort of arent good for much |
| 22:46.47 | Jayce^ | lousy interface, posterchild of poor systems :) |
| 22:46.57 | joshc | unless you are single, i guess |
| 22:47.08 | sjansen | could be really useful for business, if it didn't suck so badly |
| 22:47.19 | joshc | i've used linkedin, which isnt bad for business |
| 22:47.36 | joshc | i know the founder of friendster. i'm sad to say he is an amazingly arrogant fool. |
| 22:47.46 | sjansen | is linkedin invite only? |
| 22:47.52 | joshc | nope. |
| 22:48.21 | levi | I'm on friendster, but linked through my friend who lives in San Francisco, so everyone in my network is a SF hipster. |
| 22:48.22 | sjansen | I'll have to check it out some time. |
| 22:48.49 | joshc | i never hooked up w/ friendster.. |
| 22:49.10 | joshc | the founder, jonathan abrahms says "i started friendtser so i could get laid more often" |
| 22:49.37 | joshc | he passed up a $30M buyout from google, and instead took money from kliener perkins |
| 22:49.41 | joshc | very foolish. |
| 22:50.14 | joshc | since then, they've basically fired him from the company. |
| 22:51.32 | Jayce^ | yeah, so google moved on to orkut, in all it's crash-prone glory |
| 22:52.15 | joshc | yep - its too bad orkut is so awful. |
| 22:52.32 | joshc | now they really need a c10k check there, eh? |
| 22:52.54 | joshc | hey - you want to see if you can spot the mormon who just posted on the slashdot front page? |
| 22:53.06 | Jayce^ | joshc, you missed our discussion of that in here |
| 22:53.12 | joshc | oh. lol. |
| 22:53.15 | Jayce^ | not LDS, another meaning for the term |
| 22:53.23 | joshc | you think? |
| 22:53.28 | Jayce^ | Celestial Kingdom is a name they use for China |
| 22:53.39 | joshc | no kidding? never heard that one. |
| 22:53.55 | joshc | who came up with that term? |
| 22:54.01 | hans | "In January of 1851 a new state was declared called the Celestial Kingdom of Great Peace Taiping Tianguo (Tai-p'ing T'ien-kuo) in Guangxi (Kwangsi) Province." |
| 22:54.17 | joshc | ok. maybe thats in mulan 2. |
| 22:54.21 | joshc | havent seen it yet. |
| 22:54.37 | joshc | that was joke. |
| 22:54.55 | hans | I hadn't heard that before today either. |
| 22:54.57 | joshc | thanks for the chortle. |
| 22:55.01 | joshc | lol |
| 22:55.19 | joshc | okay - so is anyone a ww2 buff here? |
| 22:55.30 | Jayce^ | YES |
| 22:55.35 | hans | vontrapp has wasted too many hours playing axis and allies if that counts. |
| 22:55.44 | Jayce^ | interwar specialty :) |
| 22:55.45 | joshc | jayce, how hardcore are you? |
| 22:56.08 | joshc | i've recently started collecting, erm..hardware |
| 22:56.10 | Jayce^ | almost went history major because of the interest in European wars.. |
| 22:56.12 | sjansen | http://mako.yukidoke.org/copyrighteous/reflections/20050126-00.html |
| 22:56.16 | Jayce^ | oh yeah? what kinds? |
| 22:56.30 | joshc | things that wouldnt go over real well in san francisco |
| 22:56.32 | Jayce^ | usual stuff like garands? or other stuff |
| 22:56.37 | joshc | .30 cal browning |
| 22:56.40 | joshc | machine guns |
| 22:56.42 | Bradipo | Man, I have a hard time finding people that like to play Axis and Allies. |
| 22:56.58 | joshc | and i've got a 1942 ww2 jeep |
| 22:57.01 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, just need to ask in here more often :) |
| 22:57.02 | joshc | ford gpw |
| 22:57.03 | Bradipo | I have Axis and Allies and Fortess America (no longer in print). |
| 22:57.26 | Jayce^ | see joshc, everybody in plug already knows I'm a gun nut :) |
| 22:57.33 | joshc | ah. i see. |
| 22:57.38 | joshc | you've got anything fun? |
| 22:57.44 | sjansen | Jayce^ wouldn't go over well in SF |
| 22:58.00 | Jayce^ | mostly just family importance, nothing notable outside of that really |
| 22:58.01 | joshc | just owning a shotgun got me LOTS of flak from my co-workers |
| 22:58.23 | Jayce^ | sjansen, yeah, gun nut, homophobe, conservative.... real well :) |
| 22:58.27 | joshc | but i'm a big "hey, you have a family? you have a home? you need a gun." sort of guy |
| 22:58.44 | Jayce^ | got a snake-charmer.. that one is a fun toy |
| 22:58.48 | joshc | my 1919a4 is mounted on my jeep |
| 22:58.52 | Jayce^ | ooh |
| 22:58.53 | joshc | whats a snake charmer? |
| 22:59.21 | Jayce^ | .410 shotgun, pistol grip, legal in Canada by <1cm :) |
| 22:59.40 | joshc | thats fun. |
| 22:59.41 | Jayce^ | used to use it for shooting halibut before bringing them in |
| 22:59.47 | joshc | whoa. |
| 22:59.54 | joshc | fish charmer |
| 22:59.58 | Jayce^ | slug to the temple will keep your legs intact :) |
| 23:00.26 | joshc | my 1919a4 is a semi-auto, belt fed. the full auto's run about $15K.. |
| 23:00.36 | joshc | i cant quite justify that purchase. yet. |
| 23:00.38 | Jayce^ | for <20lbs, we had a driftwood club, hollowed out and filled with lead :) |
| 23:00.43 | Jayce^ | nooo |
| 23:00.58 | Jayce^ | my fav for good shooting is just the classic .30-06 springfield.. |
| 23:01.07 | joshc | you got one? |
| 23:01.09 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 23:01.12 | joshc | cool. |
| 23:01.23 | joshc | hey, there is this gravel pit near american fork canyon |
| 23:01.32 | joshc | we should go shootin there - i'd love to see your springfield |
| 23:01.36 | Jayce^ | brother has one too that he wants to sell... (needs to be sighted bad though) |
| 23:01.42 | joshc | and i can let you fire a few hundred rounds through the browning |
| 23:01.44 | Jayce^ | lotsa places out by the ranches too |
| 23:01.54 | Jayce^ | mmmmmm... I'll let you know next time we go out |
| 23:02.11 | Jayce^ | friend just got a new ar... |
| 23:02.12 | joshc | sure thing. ww2 jeeps only go about 45 mph, so no freeway |
| 23:02.22 | joshc | i'm not into the modern guns |
| 23:02.31 | joshc | just historical |
| 23:02.46 | Jayce^ | ar's are nice.. the civilian are accurate for coyote, etc.. |
| 23:02.58 | joshc | every fired a .50 cal? |
| 23:02.59 | Jayce^ | got an old old .25 cal lever action.. beauty |
| 23:03.15 | Jayce^ | no, just watched others do it :/ |
| 23:03.45 | joshc | i never have either. the M2 BMG's cost about $8K if you can find 'em (that's semi-auto) |
| 23:03.59 | Jayce^ | right |
| 23:04.01 | joshc | the full auto's are like $50K, but i've never seen 'em for sale anywhere |
| 23:04.31 | hans | so tensai, seen any deadly sourdough culture lately? |
| 23:04.31 | joshc | ever seen band of brothers? |
| 23:04.34 | Jayce^ | I'd like a garand, but they are pricey for what you get.. |
| 23:04.46 | Jayce^ | joshc, got the boxed set :) |
| 23:04.51 | joshc | me too. ;-) |
| 23:05.02 | joshc | lol. okay, we're geeks. |
| 23:05.08 | Jayce^ | and history channel is the most watched in the house (that and food network :) ) |
| 23:05.29 | Bradipo | Jayce^: So, you'll spend money on guns, but not expensive hot sauces, I see where your priorities are. :-) |
| 23:05.49 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, hey, I can make my own hot sauces :) |
| 23:06.12 | joshc | i've been doing a bunch of 4-wheelin in my jeep out behind my house |
| 23:06.14 | Jayce^ | my gun building experiences were more 'hair erasing' experiences in high school |
| 23:06.20 | joshc | i'm amazed what it can do for being 60 years old |
| 23:06.35 | joshc | you built guns? |
| 23:06.53 | Jayce^ | was into blackpowder (mountain man rendezvous, and stuff) |
| 23:07.06 | Jayce^ | built more bombs than guns/cannons though.. |
| 23:07.12 | joshc | ah. i raced at sear point raceway in high school. |
| 23:07.15 | Jayce^ | but gun kits are good |
| 23:07.16 | joshc | and ground telescope mirrors. |
| 23:07.31 | joshc | and made the occasional pipe bomb. |
| 23:07.54 | joshc | i'm looking to buy a couple 1919a4 USGI kits - but i'm not sure i'm skilled enough to actually put em together. |
| 23:08.33 | Jayce^ | instead of a garand, I'll probably just get a Yugo sks.. cheap, plentiful ammo, solid.. just for fun plinking.. |
| 23:08.40 | Jayce^ | not any collectors piece |
| 23:09.00 | joshc | why dont buy a 1919a4 kit? you can buy an mixed part one for $325 |
| 23:09.06 | Bradipo | There was a not so bright kid in my neighborhood that had a ``hair erasing'' experience when Iw as growing up. |
| 23:09.24 | Bradipo | He was hitting bullets on the ground with a hammer trying to make them explode. |
| 23:09.29 | joshc | lol. |
| 23:09.33 | Jayce^ | joshc, because my gun budget keeps getting siphoned off to my computer budget :) |
| 23:09.35 | Bradipo | I think one of them actually went off but barely missed his head. |
| 23:09.47 | Jayce^ | darwin runs his course.. |
| 23:09.52 | joshc | hehe |
| 23:09.53 | Bradipo | I wonder where he is these days. |
| 23:10.21 | Jayce^ | knew a kid whose homemade roman candle took off most his thumb, and part of two fingers |
| 23:10.44 | joshc | ouch. that's awful. i only burned off some eyebrows. |
| 23:10.45 | sjansen | I knew a kid. |
| 23:11.03 | hans | I knew an sjansen |
| 23:11.45 | Jayce^ | yeah, eyebrows and a little hearing were my worst.. (and the hearing was at a safe distance) |
| 23:12.02 | joshc | my close calls were mostly in my car |
| 23:12.14 | sjansen | Now that I think about it, some guys in HS lost their eyebrows playing with gas bombs. |
| 23:12.31 | Jayce^ | eybroys were from a blackpowder that had a bad hammer.. some sprayed up.. |
| 23:12.49 | joshc | sjansen - no one from arizona, was it? |
| 23:12.52 | hans | I once got five shots from a .22 in a quarter-size circle. |
| 23:12.58 | Jayce^ | my car really couldn't have a 'close call'... couldn't go fast enough :) |
| 23:12.58 | sjansen | North Dakota |
| 23:13.04 | hans | and lost my bb gun |
| 23:13.26 | Jayce^ | hans, cub scout's eh? :) |
| 23:13.26 | hans | boy scouts. rifle merit badge |
| 23:13.39 | joshc | i was in court all the time b/c of my car |
| 23:13.44 | Jayce^ | yeah... used to teach that one.. on the range (free ammo :) ) we got to driving nails, and lighting matches.. |
| 23:13.50 | joshc | learned lots about california law |
| 23:14.13 | hans | it was fun. I liked archery better though. |
| 23:14.22 | sjansen | Before halloween in a town of 600 I spent a few years in, the sheriff held a special school assembly to beg the students not to drag hay bails into town and light them on fire. |
| 23:14.28 | sjansen | Very bad for the roads. |
| 23:14.36 | joshc | lol |
| 23:14.42 | macnewbold | way lol |
| 23:14.42 | Jayce^ | the best, is up in Seattle, for one of the local awards at scouts, the blackpowder section, you have to shoot a ball, hit a hatchet head, and split to hit two skeet behind it.. |
| 23:15.15 | goozbach | "please keep your 4-wheelers off main street" |
| 23:15.18 | Jayce^ | you got 3 tries.. |
| 23:15.28 | goozbach | "please keep your horses locked up" |
| 23:15.41 | goozbach | -- great quotes from a small town sherrif |
| 23:16.15 | joshc | you guys every melt sugar and saltpeter together? |
| 23:16.49 | Jayce^ | along with some styrofoam in gas :) |
| 23:17.03 | joshc | poor-man napalm |
| 23:17.06 | Jayce^ | yup |
| 23:17.12 | joshc | saltpeter and sugar will just make a smoke bomb |
| 23:17.17 | joshc | pretty harmless |
| 23:17.45 | Jayce^ | our high school chem teacher had anarchists cookbook in the class... first time I'd seen it.. |
| 23:17.55 | joshc | lol |
| 23:18.05 | joshc | he'd get so fired nowadays |
| 23:18.18 | joshc | me and my 1200 baud modem was all i needed ;-) |
| 23:18.50 | sjansen | One of my friends had a father that spent a few years as a HS chem teacher. He decided to change jobs after a student poured sodium down the drain. |
| 23:19.16 | levi | Ooooh. |
| 23:19.21 | joshc | what did the sodium do? |
| 23:19.27 | levi | BOOM, I'd expect. |
| 23:19.31 | Jayce^ | wow |
| 23:19.43 | levi | Na + H20 = BOOM |
| 23:19.59 | Jayce^ | "where's the earth shattering KABOOM?" |
| 23:20.18 | sjansen | "there was supposed to be an earth shattering KABOOM!" |
| 23:20.46 | levi | All the metals on the far left of the periodic table have that quality, with increasing severity as you get farther down. |
| 23:22.32 | joshc | google tells me that sodium reacts w/ water to make sodium peroxide and hydrogen gas |
| 23:22.44 | joshc | and that its an exothermic reaction, which ignites the hydrogen gase |
| 23:23.40 | levi | I used to daydream about making a bomb with some combination of sodium or phosphorus and some sort of flammable liquid that the reactive metal would be stored in. |
| 23:24.19 | levi | So you'd throw it, and the flammable liquid would spread out, and then the bits of whatever would ignite it. |
| 23:25.15 | joshc | um...daydream? |
| 23:25.47 | levi | Well, this was back when I was taking chemistry. Didn't everyone in chemistry daydream about how you could make stuff explode/burn/whatever? |
| 23:25.55 | joshc | lol. |
| 23:25.58 | jsmith | levi: I sure did. |
| 23:26.23 | jsmith | levi: What about the "clorox in a ping-pong ball in a can of gasoline" trick? |
| 23:26.37 | levi | jsmith: Didn't know about that one. |
| 23:26.41 | jsmith | BTW, I DON'T SUGGEST YOU TRY IT! |
| 23:27.03 | levi | No, that doesn't sound particularly smart. :) |
| 23:27.08 | jsmith | Nope. |
| 23:27.17 | joshc | so clorox and gas is bad? |
| 23:27.22 | Jayce^ | just use something to remotely drop the ball |
| 23:27.23 | joshc | i'm not a big chemsit |
| 23:27.37 | jsmith | It's been said that the gasoline dissolves the ping-pong ball, and the clorox causes quite a reaction with the gasoline. |
| 23:27.46 | macnewbold | I know clorox + ammonia is bad... |
| 23:27.53 | jsmith | Yes, that too. |
| 23:27.54 | joshc | chlorine gas |
| 23:27.58 | Jayce^ | bleach plus tin foil is bad too |
| 23:28.04 | joshc | i didnt know that |
| 23:28.08 | joshc | what does it do? |
| 23:28.25 | Jayce^ | IIRC bleach plus tin foil creates hyrdrogen cas |
| 23:28.26 | Jayce^ | gas |
| 23:28.26 | macnewbold | drano (sodium hydroxide) plus aluminum foil == hydrogen gas + some heat... |
| 23:28.31 | joshc | hm |
| 23:28.35 | Jayce^ | ahh, maybe it was that.. |
| 23:28.38 | Jayce^ | been a while |
| 23:28.55 | joshc | or gasoline and fire |
| 23:28.57 | joshc | thats bad too |
| 23:29.00 | macnewbold | take a glass pop bottle, put the stuff in, and a balloon over the top, and you've got a balloon full of hydrogen gas... |
| 23:29.30 | Jayce^ | the classicly simple dry-ice bomb's are always good |
| 23:29.30 | macnewbold | fun for exploding by popping it with a hot poker (like stick it over a match or something |
| 23:29.30 | macnewbold | effective, too, Jayce^ |
| 23:29.42 | macnewbold | ~praise pyromania, and all its various forms |
| 23:29.44 | ibot | All hail pyromania, and all its various forms! |
| 23:30.24 | joshc | but everyone knows the clinical roots of pyromania...right? |
| 23:30.30 | jsmith | My eyelashes are still messed up from doing stuff like this when I was a kid... |
| 23:30.34 | Jayce^ | on the mission, first area had bottled water (the big bottles we all know) |
| 23:30.35 | joshc | actually, i dont know if thats really true.. never too psych |
| 23:30.36 | jsmith | joshc: No, what's that? |
| 23:30.41 | levi | Well, calling dry-ice bombs pyromania is a bit of a stretch. |
| 23:30.56 | joshc | they say pyromania is caused by sexual frustration |
| 23:31.08 | joshc | which sort of explains why teenage boys get into that sort of thing |
| 23:31.09 | Jayce^ | so I'd take the empties, put in a tablespoon or so of methyl alcohol (normal cleaning agent OTC down there) |
| 23:31.19 | levi | joshc: They say chewing ice is caused by the same thing. |
| 23:31.19 | Jayce^ | shake for a second, then drop a lit match |
| 23:31.33 | Jayce^ | pretty safe, loads of fun.. and scares the crap outta folks |
| 23:31.35 | joshc | havent heard that. |
| 23:31.37 | levi | Isn't that was Freud was all about? Everything being sexual frustration? |
| 23:31.44 | mrpull | that explains my teenage pyro streak |
| 23:31.59 | mrpull | i need to tell me mom that I was "just staying out of trouble" |
| 23:32.08 | sjansen | freudian psycho-babble |
| 23:32.39 | sjansen | Probably more about exploration and pushing limits (to say nothing of the adrenaline rush) than sexual frustration. |
| 23:33.21 | joshc | i dont know, i just think fire is fun. one of the best things about being in utah is that fireworks are legal here. |
| 23:33.31 | sjansen | I knew a kid who turned pyro because his parents were getting divorced. Sure hope that wasn't "sexual tension". |
| 23:33.41 | Jayce^ | joshc, if you think these are fireworks, you need to leave the state for a while |
| 23:33.53 | sjansen | heh |
| 23:33.54 | joshc | hehe |
| 23:33.56 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 23:34.01 | Jayce^ | direct from china, as well as 'indian brand' |
| 23:34.25 | joshc | i used to drool over fireworks catalogs when i was young...wishing they would ship to california.. |
| 23:34.48 | joshc | even visits to chinatown would be dissapointing (very few fireworks were attainable, even there) |
| 23:35.18 | Jayce^ | anybody ever make sparkler bombs? |
| 23:35.24 | joshc | whats a sparkler bomb? |
| 23:35.37 | Jayce^ | can't make them anymore, they changed sparklers because of this.. |
| 23:35.55 | Jayce^ | but old ones, you'd just take a bunch, in a bundle |
| 23:36.04 | Jayce^ | then pull the middle one out a ways.. |
| 23:36.13 | Jayce^ | tape it up *tight* (duct tape of course) |
| 23:36.21 | Jayce^ | plant, light the sparkler that was sticking out.. |
| 23:36.26 | joshc | hehe.. |
| 23:36.29 | Jayce^ | run/get some serious cover |
| 23:36.51 | Jayce^ | the burn rate was high enough that they would all go very quickly, and burst quite powerfully |
| 23:36.57 | joshc | fun. |
| 23:37.15 | joshc | this last 4th of july i bought a big pack of fireworks at walmart. |
| 23:37.22 | joshc | i was so amazed that they sold stuff like that. |
| 23:37.25 | Jayce^ | little white hot metal sparkler sticks flying all over.. |
| 23:37.36 | sjansen | probably got rid of 'em because some french liberal commie terrorist burned off a mustache and sued |
| 23:37.48 | Jayce^ | that's why sparklers are so much harder to light nowadays :) |
| 23:37.53 | joshc | i put 'em all in old antique wooden box i have with an "atlas powder co" label on it |
| 23:38.07 | tene | Jayce^: it still worked for me last year. |
| 23:38.12 | joshc | it says "high explosives" - its from the mines near park city in the 30's-40's |
| 23:38.22 | Jayce^ | joshc, next time, head up to wyoming.. right on the border they sell arials, etc.. |
| 23:38.27 | Jayce^ | just don't get pulled over coming back |
| 23:38.33 | joshc | are those illegal in utah? |
| 23:38.35 | joshc | shells? |
| 23:38.35 | Jayce^ | tene, really??? you got a lucky batch |
| 23:38.47 | Jayce^ | joshc, yes.. nothing can leave the ground according to utah law |
| 23:38.48 | tene | and the year before and the year before and the year before |
| 23:39.06 | Jayce^ | tene, cool, I'll have to try again.. I always loved doing that |
| 23:39.13 | joshc | ah - i didnt know that. well heck, fountains are super illegal in california, so i was stoked to play with those. |
| 23:39.15 | tene | nodnod |
| 23:39.17 | tene | is fun |
| 23:39.49 | Jayce^ | very |
| 23:40.27 | joshc | fun fun fun |
| 23:40.33 | joshc | okay - i'm off again. ttyl. |
| 23:40.41 | *** part/#utah joshc (~josh@jcoates.org) |
| 23:41.23 | tene | I used an entire large case once. |
| 23:41.50 | Jayce^ | bet that left a mark |
| 23:42.04 | tene | nodnod |
| 23:42.27 | tene | one year up at my grandparent's house in Idaho, my uncle set the field behind the barn on fire with an arial of some sort |
| 23:42.48 | tene | he told the fireman that it was a sparkler shot from a slingshot. |
| 23:43.15 | Jayce^ | yeah, that would work |
| 23:43.17 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 23:43.27 | Jayce^ | now, smoke bomb or such :) |
| 23:43.41 | tene | after the fire, we didn't set off any more fireworks, so they were put in a box and stored. |
| 23:43.42 | Jayce^ | and why are the 'crackers' here so weak? |
| 23:43.47 | tene | and set off the next year |
| 23:44.03 | tene | aged fireworks get significantly more exciting sometimes |
| 23:44.20 | tene | such as the big multi-stage fountain that all ignited at once. |
| 23:44.24 | *** part/#utah PeregrineFalcon (~lamontp@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 23:44.39 | tene | kapow! with spinny flying things all over the place. |
| 23:45.52 | Jayce^ | had a rocket array do that once.. pretty much all 50 went off at once.. beauty.. |
| 23:45.58 | tene | hehe |
| 23:46.07 | goozbach | Jayce^: you can still get the same effect as a sparkler bomb: use thermite |
| 23:46.09 | Jayce^ | loved those things.. |
| 23:46.31 | Jayce^ | once mounted two of those boxes to a 'robot toy'.. remided me of a battlemech :) |
| 23:46.45 | Jayce^ | lesse, what was that one's name.. |
| 23:46.51 | tene | I've been told that ferric oxide and powdered aluminum mixed together make a pretty nice thermite, but never tried it. |
| 23:47.07 | goozbach | tene: that is the truth |
| 23:47.14 | goozbach | it's hard to light |
| 23:47.27 | goozbach | use a magnesium wick |
| 23:47.29 | tene | also been told that it happens to ignite at about the burning temp. of magnesium. |
| 23:48.39 | Jayce^ | combine that with the unloading of old hardware...... |
| 23:48.48 | hans | that sounds fun |
| 23:49.06 | jakea | Physics 329 studnets were just calling Linux old like DOS and asking how can it be free with the licence agreement, so I printed them all copies of the GPL |
| 23:50.14 | sjansen | bringing the guns and explosives conversation full circle: http://www.tannerite.com/she_exploding_targets.html |
| 23:50.32 | goozbach | ohh binary explosive targets |
| 23:50.47 | goozbach | _there's_ the earth shattering kaboom! |
| 23:50.50 | Jayce^ | cool.. |
| 23:51.13 | Jayce^ | best exploding targets we did was just explosive/tracer rounds into containers of gas.. |
| 23:51.21 | Jayce^ | not this level :) |
| 23:51.51 | levi | Those look like they'd be an expensive way to shoot guns. |
| 23:53.20 | goozbach | $100/case... yep |
| 23:54.53 | Jayce^ | but how many people spend a lot more than that on some lame fireworks :) |
| 23:56.18 | goozbach | Jayce^: how many cases of paint would $100 buy? |
| 23:56.35 | Jayce^ | depends on the quality, and where you buy them from |
| 23:56.45 | Jayce^ | high end paint, local store.. 2, maybe 1.5 |
