| 00:00.04 | xbmodder_lappy | ? |
| 00:00.09 | neybar | most likely people took your presentation seriously and are off doing their own start-ups... :-D |
| 00:00.10 | joshc | do i know thayne..? |
| 00:00.11 | Jayce^ | of course, he prefers MTD's to that.. |
| 00:00.13 | sjansen | Maquis: last I checked, there wasn't much demand for people that could break gentoo in new and unusual ways |
| 00:00.17 | joshc | lol neybar |
| 00:00.23 | Maquis | sjansen: thanks :) |
| 00:00.27 | Jayce^ | joshc, probably not, but he's a legend in plug, on of the founders.. |
| 00:00.34 | xbmodder_lappy | joshc, why don't you start your own business? |
| 00:00.40 | Maquis | sjansen: i might be good for a bit more than that... |
| 00:00.44 | Jayce^ | writes device drivers for MTDs at linux networx |
| 00:00.49 | joshc | lappy..um...thats what i'm doing.. |
| 00:00.59 | Jayce^ | touché |
| 00:01.06 | joshc | i know the LN cto, josh harr - good guy |
| 00:01.19 | joshc | he needs driver guys more than me. |
| 00:01.26 | Maquis | joshc: you won't be looking for someone for the summer, would you? |
| 00:01.36 | wps | Jayce^: you work at Linux Networx? |
| 00:01.45 | Jayce^ | wps, no |
| 00:01.48 | joshc | just a summer job? not really - depends on what you can do |
| 00:02.01 | Maquis | Jayce^: why are you glad you never did internships? |
| 00:02.03 | joshc | linux networx is a great company from what i see btw |
| 00:02.10 | Jayce^ | joshc, Maquis is a resident starving student looking for experience :) |
| 00:02.20 | Maquis | :) |
| 00:02.23 | wps | that's where where UPHPU holds their meetings... they are great |
| 00:02.27 | neybar | Maquis: not internships, interships. it is a little different |
| 00:02.27 | Jayce^ | Maquis, I just went into the field instead.. no grovelling as an intern.. |
| 00:02.39 | sjansen | Maquis: because full time jobs pay better than internships |
| 00:02.40 | joshc | ah - maquis, what is it that you want to do? do you code/admin..make coffee? |
| 00:02.49 | Jayce^ | ~lart neybar for trying to have dry wit |
| 00:02.58 | Maquis | joshc: well... i can do some coding... i'd like to learn more about adminning... |
| 00:03.23 | joshc | hehe..im slow |
| 00:03.46 | joshc | maquis, well, go ahead and send me your resume - i'll email you off line. |
| 00:04.06 | joshc | but new guys trying to gain experience are almost never worth the trouble to be honest! ;-) |
| 00:04.17 | Maquis | my job the past 3 summers gave me a lot of really interesting and important jobs, but unfortunately, it was all in vb :) |
| 00:04.20 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:04.28 | Maquis | joshc: i don't get that comment... |
| 00:04.40 | Maquis | oh... nm |
| 00:04.41 | joshc | which comment? |
| 00:04.43 | joshc | ok |
| 00:04.50 | joshc | er, i guess off-irc-line. |
| 00:04.54 | Maquis | what exactly do you do? |
| 00:04.56 | joshc | you know, they used pigeons in ww1 |
| 00:05.08 | joshc | germans were always shooting at them |
| 00:05.08 | Maquis | before i decide to send a resume... :) |
| 00:05.20 | joshc | we're building widgets. mostly. |
| 00:05.22 | sjansen | joshc: pays people |
| 00:05.33 | joshc | kidding. ;-) check the posts on plug |
| 00:05.37 | Jayce^ | ball-bearings... it's all about ball-bearings nowadays.. |
| 00:05.43 | Maquis | joshc: ok will do :) |
| 00:05.44 | fungus | udp was based on the pigeon protocol. |
| 00:06.16 | Jayce^ | later folks.. |
| 00:06.20 | joshc | you'd think people would rat out their smart friends for $1-2K referral bonus, eh? |
| 00:06.32 | joshc | pack meeting tongight for me jayce |
| 00:06.38 | joshc | i do webelos too. cya later |
| 00:08.43 | joshc | who is dataw0lf |
| 00:09.21 | joshc | bueller..? |
| 00:10.10 | sjansen | dataw0lf is a roughly 22 year old sysadmin, former military, recent arrival to SL |
| 00:10.34 | Maquis | 'dataw0lf |
| 00:10.36 | brigham | dataw0lf is a roughly 22 year old sysadmin, former military, recent arrival to SL |
| 00:10.54 | sjansen | ~dataw0lf |
| 00:11.09 | joshc | hm. he's got a funny site. |
| 00:11.35 | joshc | er, i guess he had a funny site - it redirects to mozilla.org now |
| 00:12.22 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@adsl-215-161-84.aep.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:13.30 | findlay | ~lart emcnabb |
| 00:18.35 | joshc | so i just saw posiedon adventure last night |
| 00:18.55 | joshc | you know, that 70's movie about the cruise ship that tips over? |
| 00:20.26 | hans | is that what it's called? |
| 00:20.57 | hans | that's been one of those vague movie memories where you would never know where to look for it if you decided you wanted to watch it. |
| 00:21.03 | joshc | yep. poseidon adventure |
| 00:21.16 | joshc | i actually rented it via netflix. |
| 00:21.22 | findlay | Gene Hackman |
| 00:21.42 | joshc | so, it was one of those things i did on purpose - though it seems more like a 3am-cant-sleep-whats-on-tv movie. |
| 00:21.56 | joshc | right - hackman plays the new-age preacher. |
| 00:22.09 | joshc | bunch of stars in that movie. it was actually pretty good. |
| 00:22.22 | joshc | but the acting was terrible for some strange reason. hackman was okay. |
| 00:27.53 | joshc | so, did anyone end up doing the google-ipo thing..? |
| 00:28.03 | *** join/#utah |rufius| (~suifur@suifur.linuxfordummies) |
| 00:29.15 | joshc | alright, well i have to go get ready for this pack meeting. |
| 00:29.19 | joshc | seeya l8r folks. |
| 00:29.24 | findlay | bye |
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| 00:55.07 | xilch | anyone know anything about the american towers fire? |
| 00:55.27 | Maquis | i'm sure someone knows something... but i'm not that someone... |
| 00:55.31 | xilch | I'm really curious |
| 00:55.39 | Maquis | does google know anything about it? |
| 00:55.40 | *** join/#utah |rufius| (~suifur@suifur.linuxfordummies) |
| 00:57.30 | xilch | checked google |
| 00:57.40 | xilch | but this is too new I think |
| 00:58.28 | dataw0lf | <joshc> er, i guess he had a funny site - it redirects to mozilla.org now |
| 00:58.34 | dataw0lf | only if you're using IE, brotha. |
| 00:59.03 | findlay | heh |
| 00:59.36 | findlay | |lart IE |
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| 01:00.36 | dataw0lf | word. |
| 01:03.14 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@c-24-10-215-64.client.comcast.net) |
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| 01:10.51 | SpecialK | |lart Maquis |
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| 01:21.31 | scott_ | anyone know of a good photogallery that's easy to integrate into the look of a website? |
| 01:21.52 | hans | how do you tell the OS to flush? |
| 01:22.12 | hans | I'm trying to get festival to speak but it refuses to until EOF |
| 01:22.35 | vontrapp | hans, have you tried speechd? |
| 01:22.56 | hans | no |
| 01:23.19 | vontrapp | it creates a /dev/speech, and you can just direct text to there and it speeks |
| 01:23.39 | hans | what package? |
| 01:27.33 | findlay | usually there's a handle on the upper left corner of the water closet that flushes the-er-OS |
| 01:28.00 | findlay | some syscall I imagine |
| 01:29.19 | findlay | bdflush? |
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| 01:32.54 | vontrapp | hans: speech-dispatcher-festival |
| 01:33.12 | emcnabb | vontrapp, speechd is cool |
| 01:33.18 | emcnabb | I'd never tried it before |
| 01:34.02 | mheath | My laptop...it.....LIVES! |
| 01:34.05 | mheath | Heh. |
| 01:34.11 | *** join/#utah levi-treo (~upirc@032-262-724.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 01:34.18 | findlay | what does speechd do read your dmesg while you boot up? |
| 01:35.34 | hans | |lart findlay |
| 01:36.17 | findlay | ``eth0...OK crond...OK HAL renegade blocker daemon...I'm sorry, Dave, I can't do that'' |
| 01:38.44 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (~von@c-67-177-11-46.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:39.02 | brailsmt | how useless to post IP and root passwd... how do they know what the login is? |
| 01:39.03 | brailsmt | :D |
| 01:39.16 | brailsmt | oh wait... |
| 02:01.56 | findlay | my root uname is r00t_0wn4. It just changed to that one day. I bet nobody would guess that... |
| 02:11.52 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@209.197.11.63) |
| 02:16.31 | Maquis | my sound on my desktop worked fine, until i upgraded my kernel... |
| 02:16.47 | tene | ouch |
| 02:16.48 | tene | that sucks |
| 02:16.51 | Maquis | now i can't figure out why it won't work |
| 02:16.57 | Maquis | it's not putting anything in dmesg... |
| 02:17.08 | tene | modules or compiled? |
| 02:17.17 | Maquis | ummm... don't remember... |
| 02:17.18 | tene | check if your mods ar loaded. |
| 02:17.26 | findlay | Maquis: do you have OSS compatible ALSA? |
| 02:17.36 | findlay | udev or devfs? |
| 02:17.40 | Maquis | findlay: i think so |
| 02:17.53 | Maquis | ummm... udev? i think... the one that you don't turn on in the kernel |
| 02:18.25 | findlay | user space device manager |
| 02:18.31 | Maquis | i think so? |
| 02:18.47 | Maquis | tene: it doesn't seem to have any modules installed... |
| 02:18.54 | Maquis | s/installed/loaded |
| 02:18.58 | Maquis | i thought i installed them |
| 02:18.58 | tene | should it? |
| 02:19.10 | tene | 'lsmod' is empty? |
| 02:19.15 | Maquis | i suppose it should have something in there... |
| 02:19.32 | tene | that could be it |
| 02:20.46 | Maquis | question: why is it listed as: /lib/modules/2.6.11-rc2n |
| 02:20.53 | Maquis | instead of ending with 2.6.11-rc2 |
| 02:20.54 | Maquis | ? |
| 02:21.13 | byronc | Maquis: because you ran make oldconfig and hit n instead of enter when asked about LOCALVERSION |
| 02:21.28 | byronc | that's my guess |
| 02:21.30 | Maquis | byronc: so... is that a problem? |
| 02:21.36 | Maquis | should i move it? |
| 02:21.51 | byronc | don't move it because the real kernel name is not 2.6.11-rc2n |
| 02:21.56 | byronc | s/not/sow |
| 02:22.00 | byronc | s/not/now |
| 02:22.08 | Maquis | ok... |
| 02:22.20 | Maquis | well... there are files in there, so i didn't forget to do make modules_install |
| 02:22.38 | byronc | run uname -a |
| 02:22.58 | Maquis | Linux anubis 2.6.11-rc2n #1 SMP Mon Jan 24 05:32:56 MST 2005 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2000+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux |
| 02:23.01 | Maquis | ok... |
| 02:23.04 | Maquis | so it's got an n there too |
| 02:23.25 | Maquis | ummm... could this be the problem: |
| 02:23.31 | Maquis | [anubis /root] modprobe |
| 02:23.31 | Maquis | zsh: command not found: modprobe |
| 02:23.40 | Maquis | [anubis /root] insmod |
| 02:23.40 | Maquis | zsh: command not found: insmod |
| 02:23.56 | Maquis | or would the scripts that would load the modules be set up with the full path? |
| 02:25.33 | findlay | Maquis: when you 'su'-d did you do 'su -'? |
| 02:25.40 | Maquis | findlay: yup |
| 02:25.49 | Maquis | but i recently switched to zsh from bash... |
| 02:26.01 | findlay | ls /sbin/modprobe? |
| 02:26.22 | Maquis | i did locate modprobe, and it said it was in /sbin, so i just added that to my root path |
| 02:26.48 | Maquis | and now modprobe doesn't give a not-found error |
| 02:27.00 | Maquis | so, should i reboot, and see if that works? |
| 02:27.21 | Maquis | (or is there some other way to get it to load all the modules that it normally would load at startup?) |
| 02:27.38 | findlay | telinit 1 |
| 02:27.45 | findlay | telinit 3 |
| 02:27.47 | Maquis | findlay: is that a command? |
| 02:27.52 | Maquis | and do i do both? |
| 02:28.03 | findlay | but you might as well reboot || telinit 6 |
| 02:28.11 | findlay | yeah |
| 02:28.36 | Maquis | mmmk... |
| 02:28.43 | Maquis | i think i might just reboot then... |
| 02:28.49 | Maquis | byronc: do you think that might be the problem? |
| 02:29.14 | Maquis | or not... |
| 02:29.21 | findlay | actually, I don't think changing the runlevels will unload kernel modules |
| 02:30.59 | byronc | dunno |
| 02:32.17 | *** join/#utah Maquis (~Maquis@128.187.244.16) |
| 02:32.24 | Maquis | hmmm... |
| 02:32.29 | Maquis | lsmod is still empty... |
| 02:34.15 | byronc | Maquis: did you see any errors during boot? |
| 02:34.58 | findlay | Maquis: you need to populate /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-2.6 with the necessary modules |
| 02:35.38 | findlay | and do 'modules-update || update-modules' |
| 02:36.09 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 02:38.42 | Maquis | byronc: let me go check |
| 02:39.11 | Maquis | yeah... |
| 02:39.24 | Maquis | failed to load two modules: nvidia and nvnet |
| 02:39.41 | byronc | Maquis: are you looking in the logs or on the screen? |
| 02:39.43 | Maquis | if it didn't load nvnet, how can i be online on that computer right now? |
| 02:39.47 | Maquis | byronc: on the screen |
| 02:40.18 | *** join/#utah mrpull_ (~mrpull_@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 02:40.34 | Maquis | weird... |
| 02:40.43 | Maquis | portage says that alsa-driver is not emerged... |
| 02:41.11 | Maquis | ooh... |
| 02:41.25 | Maquis | "Important: Whenever you (re)compile your kernel sources, chances are that the ALSA drivers will be deleted. It is therefore adviseable to rerun emerge alsa-driver every time you (re)compile your kernel. Note that this will compile the drivers for the kernel in /usr/src/linux, NOT the running kernel." |
| 02:41.31 | Maquis | hmmm... |
| 02:41.34 | JoshH | ~lart Maquis |
| 02:41.35 | findlay | did you emerge nvidia after emergeing the kernel and after updating the /usr/src/linux symlink? |
| 02:41.40 | Maquis | i've never had that problem before... but that might be the problem |
| 02:41.49 | byronc | if you're using a 2.6 kernel you don't need to rebuild alsa |
| 02:41.58 | byronc | you should be using the alsa drivers in the kernel |
| 02:42.22 | Maquis | that's what i thought i was doing, but the gentoo docs say that you still have to? |
| 02:43.04 | findlay | I don't think it matters unless you've got a card for which the driver is still lacking important features |
| 02:43.46 | Maquis | ok... maybe this will help: |
| 02:43.51 | Maquis | [anubis /root] cat /usr/src/linux/.config | grep -i sound 1 |
| 02:43.51 | Maquis | CONFIG_SOUND_GAMEPORT=y |
| 02:43.51 | Maquis | # Sound |
| 02:43.51 | Maquis | CONFIG_SOUND=y |
| 02:43.51 | Maquis | # Advanced Linux Sound Architecture |
| 02:43.53 | Maquis | # Open Sound System |
| 02:43.55 | Maquis | # CONFIG_SOUND_PRIME is not set |
| 02:44.18 | Maquis | is something in there wrong? |
| 02:44.34 | Maquis | or do i need to re-emerge nvidia? |
| 02:45.25 | findlay | you need to re-'emerge nvidia-kernel' after pointing /usr/src/linux to the current src tree |
| 02:45.35 | Maquis | mmmk |
| 02:46.02 | Maquis | hmmm... i just realized why i never had to do this before... |
| 02:46.17 | Maquis | i'm usually upgrading the kernel on my laptop... |
| 02:46.32 | Maquis | but my desktop's been on the same kernel since it was installed until now... |
| 02:46.58 | Maquis | ack! |
| 02:47.14 | Maquis | 'emerge nvidia-kernel' failed! |
| 02:49.12 | byronc | Maquis: chances are the nvidia driver hasn't been updated to work with 2.6.11 yet |
| 02:50.17 | Maquis | :( |
| 02:50.26 | byronc | seeing how 2.6.11 hasn't been released. |
| 02:50.48 | Maquis | why is the sound card in my laptop supported then? |
| 02:51.00 | Maquis | (that wasn't intended to sound like i was challenging your thought... just curiuos) |
| 02:52.33 | byronc | huh? |
| 02:52.56 | Maquis | i'm curious why the sound card in my laptop works in 2.6.11 when the one in my desktop isn't supported |
| 02:54.41 | byronc | dunno, these Ridiculous Count kernels always have odd troubles |
| 02:54.50 | Maquis | hmmm... |
| 02:55.03 | Maquis | i've had good luck with them up until this one, i guess... |
| 03:09.48 | *** join/#utah sjansen-treo (~upirc@032-324-794.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 03:10.46 | spr | Maquis, you could always download the alsa cvs drivers :0 |
| 03:10.52 | spr | err, :) |
| 03:12.19 | sjansen-treo | so just as mysteriously as they left, my nic and pcmcia port are back |
| 03:13.39 | Maquis | spr: is that :) to say that it'll be evil to get working? or to say that it should work? |
| 03:13.43 | Maquis | sjansen-treo: go figure |
| 03:14.53 | Maquis | |lart sjansen-treo |
| 03:14.58 | Maquis | oops |
| 03:15.21 | *** join/#utah brigham (~brigham@128.187.244.16) |
| 03:15.35 | Maquis | |lart sjansen-treo |
| 03:15.35 | spr | Maquis, I've had mixed feelings about the cvs ALSA. |
| 03:15.53 | spr | It's a bit tricky to get compiling right (has a different set of instructions) |
| 03:15.59 | xbmodder | tene, you there |
| 03:16.01 | Maquis | hmmmm... |
| 03:16.25 | Maquis | how long do you think it'll take for nvidia to be compileable in 2.6.11? |
| 03:16.42 | xbmodder | never |
| 03:16.52 | xbmodder | prolly a week to two weeks |
| 03:18.00 | sjansen-treo | unless nvidia goes out of business, in which case xbmodder was right the first time |
| 03:18.13 | xbmodder | yeah |
| 03:18.17 | xbmodder | nvidia is awesome |
| 03:18.28 | fozz | ;-) |
| 03:35.08 | xbmodder | sjansen-treo, i would log off... you can't use data & voice... |
| 03:35.14 | xbmodder | simultaneously |
| 03:36.15 | sjansen-treo | it'll ring if I get a call |
| 03:37.06 | sjansen-treo | confuses the heck out my irc client, though :-) |
| 03:44.50 | fozz | Only about 45 days left. |
| 03:45.21 | fozz | Might do it sooner depending on how much I'd have to pay Verizon to keep the plan in stasis until my contract is up. |
| 03:49.45 | tene | xbmodder: I am now |
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| 04:14.34 | mheath_ | Greetings from crappy pentium133 laptop land. |
| 04:36.25 | mheath | That makes me upset... |
| 04:49.05 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 04:50.02 | xbmodder | tene, sup |
| 04:50.12 | xbmodder | mheath, greatings! |
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| 04:50.33 | SpecialK | |lart Maquis |
| 04:51.19 | xbmodder | do i need to make an anti-lart script? |
| 04:51.43 | Maquis | |lart xbmodder |
| 04:51.59 | xbmodder | |superlart Maquis |
| 04:52.00 | brigham | xbmodder: hola :) |
| 04:52.05 | xbmodder | brigham, sup! |
| 04:52.06 | brigham | yo xbmodder! |
| 04:52.32 | xbmodder | anyone here know where tene is? |
| 04:53.18 | Maquis | ~seen tene |
| 04:53.21 | ibot | tene is currently on #utah. Has said a total of 207 messages. Is idling for 1h 3m 36s |
| 04:53.34 | xbmodder | i know that |
| 04:53.43 | xbmodder | but as in physical location |
| 04:54.20 | Maquis | last i checked, he hadn't been tagged for tracking... |
| 04:55.34 | xbmodder | hahahha :( |
| 05:09.17 | xbmodder | emcnabb is gone! It must be the apocalypse |
| 05:17.55 | xbmodder | http://gprime.net/images/firstremotecontrol/ < HAHAHA |
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| 06:04.14 | xbmodder | no one is home |
| 06:09.06 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@c-67-161-219-228.client.comcast.net) |
| 06:10.24 | xbmodder | hey wasup spr |
| 06:18.15 | Maquis | goozbach: ping???? |
| 06:18.27 | Maquis | SpecialK: ping? |
| 06:27.10 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 06:27.46 | xbmodder | pong |
| 06:30.12 | xbmodder | pong |
| 06:30.18 | Maquis | hi xb |
| 06:31.30 | xbmodder | hey |
| 06:31.31 | xbmodder | ok |
| 06:31.31 | xbmodder | :( |
| 06:31.40 | xbmodder | hows it goin? |
| 06:31.45 | Maquis | tis ok |
| 06:31.51 | Maquis | really busy and quite crazy |
| 06:32.04 | xbmodder | aww |
| 06:32.08 | xbmodder | taht sucks |
| 06:32.15 | Maquis | that's life |
| 06:35.49 | xbmodder | yeah :( |
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| 07:32.33 | xbmodder | so |
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| 13:22.22 | hans | |roulette |
| 13:22.22 | brigham | hans: chamber 1 of 6 => +click+ |
| 13:24.38 | emcnabb | |roulette |
| 13:24.39 | brigham | emcnabb: chamber 2 of 6 => *BANG* |
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| 13:35.49 | hans | |lart emcnabb |
| 13:36.05 | hans | did your homeland security applet warn you? |
| 13:45.50 | emcnabb | nope |
| 13:45.55 | emcnabb | it still says elevated |
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| 14:48.49 | tensai | |roulette |
| 14:48.54 | brigham | tensai: chamber 1 of 6 => +click+ |
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| 15:19.45 | hans | wcfxo: DAA mode is 'FCC' |
| 15:19.45 | hans | Found a Wildcard FXO: Generic Clone |
| 15:19.45 | hans | Registered tone zone 0 (United States / North America) |
| 15:19.47 | hans | :) |
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| 15:23.55 | hans | jsmith: do I want to start with the debian asterisk-config package or from square 1? |
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| 15:25.13 | tensai | hans: I recommend reading jsmith's doc on the matter. http://www.asteriskdocs.org/ |
| 15:25.33 | tensai | I started with the debian config and just nuked a couple files, like extensions.conf. |
| 15:26.36 | hans | I've read or skimmed through the docs there. |
| 15:26.57 | hans | I think I remember somewhere about starting from square one |
| 15:27.13 | hans | I usually do that anyway on things that don't have insane amounts of configuration (like apache) |
| 15:27.24 | tensai | there's a lot of junk in some of the default configs. like mailboxes and demo extensions. |
| 15:27.36 | tensai | it wouldn't be bad to start from scratch |
| 15:27.38 | hans | just this is the first time I've seen a separate package for the configs. :) |
| 15:28.52 | tensai | I don't see any such package. testing? unstable? |
| 15:29.54 | hans | testing. asterisk-config |
| 15:30.43 | tensai | hmm. lemme update my packages and see |
| 15:31.23 | tensai | nope, still don't see it. |
| 15:32.40 | tensai | are you using a different apt source? |
| 15:34.36 | tensai | I would install the default configs because they do have some good comments and such. sip.conf has some examples for different kinds of phones. |
| 15:34.45 | tensai | handy to have, but you might want to start a new one anyway |
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| 15:43.26 | jsmith | hans: Start from scratch. Get 1.0.4 from FTP, or from CVS if you're feeling very adventurous |
| 15:44.05 | jsmith | hans: And write your own extensions.conf file from scratch |
| 15:44.33 | fozz | http://engrish.com/recent_detail.php?imagename=i-didnt-do-it.jpg |
| 15:46.01 | tensai | fozz: every time my son gets in trouble he says "I miss grandma" |
| 15:46.08 | fozz | :) |
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| 16:02.55 | hans | why 1.0.4? what's new from 1.0.2? |
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| 16:09.15 | SpecialK | |lart Maquis |
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| 16:19.13 | levi | Yo. |
| 16:28.11 | Maquis | |lart SpecialK |
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| 16:31.33 | sjansen | Utahns can't drive for beans. |
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| 16:31.42 | JoshH | its so true |
| 16:35.04 | JoshH | they also cant drive in snow, unlike what they seem to believe |
| 16:35.14 | JoshH | i guess they are better at it than southerners, but thats not saying anything. |
| 16:37.37 | Maquis | JoshH: at least they can drive moderately well in the sun |
| 16:37.52 | Maquis | although they're horrid in the rain |
| 16:38.13 | levi | Better than Californians in the rain, at least. |
| 16:38.20 | levi | SoCalians, that is. |
| 16:38.50 | levi | In San Diego, when it rains, there are cars off on the side of the road every 1/4 mile or so on the freeway. |
| 16:39.00 | levi | It's really ridiculous. |
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| 16:39.24 | levi | The shoulder is littered with car bits when it's really rainy. |
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| 16:46.21 | xbmodder | ? |
| 16:48.55 | Maquis | levi: that's just wrong |
| 16:50.42 | xbmodder | i think that Microsoft should give pirated copies a full security blow-out |
| 16:51.13 | JoshH | ? |
| 16:51.55 | xbmodder | basically pirated copies should get all the SECURITY updates a normal copy would |
| 16:52.22 | sjansen | why? |
| 16:52.52 | goozbach | xbmodder: you could just stop breaking the law and _buy_ a copy and get the security updates |
| 16:53.08 | goozbach | or use open source software |
| 16:53.11 | JoshH | or just not use one of the known pirated cd keys like a noob |
| 16:53.56 | goozbach | disclamer: every copy of window I use is a legal licenced copy |
| 16:54.06 | JoshH | i do think MS should allow updates though, just so that next time there is a worm it wont wreak havoc on everyone else too |
| 16:54.35 | JoshH | then again, most people dont bother with updates or security of any kind anyway |
| 16:54.35 | xbmodder | no i don't have a copy of windows |
| 16:54.50 | xbmodder | but their just helping the worms spread :-/ |
| 16:55.14 | xbmodder | disclamer: every copy of window I use is a usually legal licenced copy |
| 16:55.14 | tensai | it's kinda like denying hospital visits to illegal immigrants |
| 16:55.25 | hans | during a plague |
| 16:55.28 | JoshH | actually |
| 16:56.15 | goozbach | what's wrong with denying hospital visits to illegal immigrants? |
| 16:56.17 | sjansen | Instead of demanding that MS distribute patches, ISP should cut off infected machines. |
| 16:56.20 | levi | xbmodder: Does that mean that some of the copies you use change state between 'registered' and 'not registered'? |
| 16:56.22 | JoshH | allowing illegal immigrants to use hospitals costs the rest of us money. ms not allowing pirated windows copies to get updates costs us money. |
| 16:57.02 | JoshH | sjansen: good idea in theory |
| 16:57.51 | sjansen | or better yet, unregistered windows machines because they put the ISP's network at risk |
| 16:58.23 | tensai | denying people hospital access breeds disease. it will cost *more* to remedy the situation when it turns into an epidemic. |
| 16:58.23 | hans | JoshH: what if those illegal immigrants are infected with a nasty virus? |
| 16:58.30 | sjansen | allow only access to MS addresses so that users can register, and DoS MS |
| 16:58.37 | hans | exactly. the analogy was good until you explained it. |
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| 16:58.51 | JoshH | hans: that would be different, i guess. but uninsured patients are a huge part of the high health care costs. |
| 16:59.09 | sjansen | no, insurance is |
| 16:59.14 | tensai | the more infected illegal windows boxes there are, the faster the worm spreads and valid windows boxes are at greater risk |
| 16:59.41 | hans | like the chiropractor my mom went to that charged 3x their normal rate because it was covered by insurance. |
| 16:59.55 | JoshH | if uninsured people could be turned away at emergency rooms for non life threatening things, insurance might be cheaper. |
| 17:00.07 | sjansen | might |
| 17:00.20 | JoshH | might indeed |
| 17:00.24 | JoshH | im not naive, lol |
| 17:00.37 | JoshH | one thing that pisses me off though about car insurance... |
| 17:00.38 | hans | I might be cruel-hearted but I think people should be turned away from ER visits if it's not life-threatening, no matter what |
| 17:00.49 | sjansen | targetting the uninsured isn't nearly as important as reducing the cost of medical insurance |
| 17:00.52 | JoshH | the government forces me to buy it, yet also allows the insurance company to charge me more because i am a male |
| 17:00.54 | hans | obviously non-threatening. like a broken toenail |
| 17:01.00 | JoshH | shouldnt that be discrimination or something? |
| 17:01.10 | goozbach | if americans weren't so litigation happy, doctors wouldn't have to pay so much for malpractice insurance and would be able to curb healthcare costs in general |
| 17:01.23 | hans | bonez39 should pipe up |
| 17:01.29 | JoshH | i cant imagine what would happen if they tried to charge women or minorities more |
| 17:01.40 | sjansen | JoshH: No, it's math, not discrimination. |
| 17:01.44 | tensai | JoshH: those costs are all based on real statistics that show men are more expensive to insure |
| 17:01.54 | JoshH | sjansen: what if the math said minorities caused more accidents, would it be okay then? |
| 17:02.01 | sjansen | yep |
| 17:02.16 | JoshH | i doubt it would be tolerated by society |
| 17:02.20 | hans | the sad thing is, I think it's probably because men drive more. |
| 17:02.21 | goozbach | it's all calculated... ala _Along came Polly_ |
| 17:02.26 | hans | more time driving => more accidents |
| 17:02.40 | sjansen | well, yes |
| 17:02.50 | goozbach | "riskmaster 2000" |
| 17:02.54 | sjansen | along the same lines, that why insurance companies want to know how far away work is |
| 17:03.00 | JoshH | all the worst drivers i know are girls |
| 17:03.01 | sjansen | to get an idea of how much time you'll spend driving |
| 17:04.58 | JoshH | it still pisses me off. any factor that is beyond my control, like my gender or race, should not be held against me. |
| 17:05.20 | sjansen | why? |
| 17:05.26 | JoshH | especially since the government forces me to buy it. |
| 17:05.35 | sjansen | you're saying you shouldn't get cancer just because you can't control it? |
| 17:05.53 | sjansen | you're saying you shouldn't get fired, just because the company can't afford to keep you? |
| 17:05.53 | hans | i think he's saying he'd be TOd if he got cancer. |
| 17:06.02 | levi | JoshH: I heard that women get it more accidents, but they tend to be things like backing into poles. Men, when they get in an accident, tend to total the car. |
| 17:06.04 | sjansen | suck it up, life's unfair |
| 17:06.17 | sjansen | the best we can do is respond to reality, not try to make it match our whims |
| 17:06.32 | sjansen | you ARE more expensive to the insurance company, so you pay more |
| 17:06.36 | hans | sjansen: how's your laptop btw? |
| 17:06.42 | JoshH | im saying it shouldnt be held against me by the government or companies the government forces me to do business with, not by nature. |
| 17:06.49 | sjansen | insurance IS good for society in general, so you'd better pay for it |
| 17:07.08 | sjansen | you still haven't said why |
| 17:07.16 | JoshH | im not expensive to the insurance company at all |
| 17:07.20 | sjansen | Because it isn't FAIR? Life isn't fair. |
| 17:07.21 | levi | JoshH: You'd be even more pissed if some uninsured person caused an accident with you, I'm sure. |
| 17:07.47 | JoshH | yes, of course. im not saying i shouldnt have to buy insurance, just that i shouldnt be charged more than a woman with an identical driving record. |
| 17:08.08 | levi | Yeah, that sucks. But such is life. |
| 17:08.24 | JoshH | yeah... |
| 17:08.26 | levi | Try to convince the insurance companies that they'll make more money that way. |
| 17:08.32 | levi | They won't believe you. |
| 17:08.48 | levi | They have math on their side. |
| 17:09.43 | JoshH | i understand the math. im just saying if the math said that say, hispanics or blacks caused more accidents, and they charged them more because of it, that wouldnt fly. it should be the same for people who were born male. |
| 17:09.54 | sjansen | hans: my nic and pcmcia started mysteriously working again |
| 17:11.12 | sjansen | JoshH: so you're saying you'd like to throw in with those who'd like to ignore common sense in the name of polical correctness? |
| 17:11.22 | goozbach | don't tell sjansen that I've been disconnecting his nic and pcmia chips from his motherboard |
| 17:11.25 | goozbach | he he |
| 17:11.42 | emcnabb | I just learned about the ddate command |
| 17:11.49 | emcnabb | Today is Sweetmorn, the 26th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3171 |
| 17:11.51 | levi | JoshH: Race is not the same as sex. |
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| 17:11.54 | sjansen | Myself, I'd prefer to fight for the right of insurance companies to consider race. |
| 17:12.12 | JoshH | levi: it is when it comes to anti-discrimination laws |
| 17:12.36 | levi | Not entirely. |
| 17:12.38 | JoshH | sjansen: me too, ideally, but if they cant discriminate on that, they shouldnt be able to discriminate on gender either. |
| 17:12.48 | levi | We still have separate men/women bathrooms. We don't have white/black bathrooms. |
| 17:13.25 | JoshH | sjansen: i think private businesses should be able to discriminate however they wish, but not the government |
| 17:13.41 | hans | 'discrimination |
| 17:13.49 | JoshH | and since the government forces me to buy insurance, gender shouldnt be a factor in pricing. |
| 17:14.12 | hans | brigham, discrimination is <reply> sjansen hates debian. |
| 17:14.15 | brigham | fine |
| 17:15.33 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The source for OSS focused communication in Utah. Check out sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, etc. || sjansen's machine is working again, Ubuntu is forgiven... for now |
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| 17:16.27 | hans | hehe |
| 17:17.58 | Jayce^ | ubuntu took a little assitance to work for me.. :( |
| 17:18.12 | Jayce^ | actually, Gnome (as usual) was the culprit in my case |
| 17:18.43 | JoshH | ive heard ubuntu is great, maybe even the best, for out-of-box workingness on laptops, but ive never tried it personally |
| 17:19.01 | Jayce^ | I just installed it for the first time.. |
| 17:19.17 | Jayce^ | standard debian (new) installer, just includes gnome.. |
| 17:20.52 | sjansen | Jayce^: _That_ was the much bally-hooed new Debian installer? |
| 17:20.56 | JoshH | but the tradeoff is upgrades and package installation is much more of a pita than on debian/ubuntu |
| 17:21.01 | sjansen | man, that's sad |
| 17:21.32 | JoshH | the new installer is great, imo. sure, its not a pretty gui, but it works well and you can get an installation done in 15 minutes. |
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| 17:22.33 | sjansen | it's faster than the SUSE installer, but that ain't saying much |
| 17:22.48 | sjansen | sure isn't friendly for much more than "slap a distro on my disk" |
| 17:22.51 | goozbach | I'm not complaining abt my FC3 install any more |
| 17:22.53 | hans | sjansen: nobody ever said it acme with eye candy |
| 17:23.07 | hans | came even |
| 17:23.13 | JoshH | its very flexible in expert mode too |
| 17:23.16 | sjansen | step just a bit outside, like try to setup LVM and it's still pretty rough |
| 17:23.19 | Jayce^ | acme candy? hrm |
| 17:23.19 | levi | sjansen: The point of the Debian installer is not to be pretty, it's to "slap a distro on my disk" for many more architectures than any gui installer could support. |
| 17:23.22 | goozbach | just getting rid of fedora-supplied kde rpms fixed almost all my problems |
| 17:23.36 | levi | sjansen: Ubuntu is for the people who want a pretty installer. |
| 17:23.45 | sjansen | levi: have you seen the installer? |
| 17:23.51 | levi | sjansen: Yes, I used it. |
| 17:23.51 | sjansen | I sure wouldn't call it pretty. |
| 17:23.58 | levi | It's not supposed to be! |
| 17:24.00 | Jayce^ | levi, same installer as debian testing.. |
| 17:24.03 | JoshH | ive never installed ubuntu, but ive used the new sarge installer dozens of times |
| 17:24.03 | goozbach | and now I've discovered the kde-redhat project I'm as happy as a clam |
| 17:24.09 | sjansen | levi: you just said it was |
| 17:24.20 | levi | sjansen: Oh, you meant the Ubuntu installer. |
| 17:24.28 | levi | I haven't seen the Ubuntu installer. |
| 17:24.36 | levi | I have only used the Ubuntu liveCD. |
| 17:24.50 | hans | ~drown goozbach |
| 17:24.51 | sjansen | Jayce^ just said it was the Ubuntu and Debian installers were the same. |
| 17:24.51 | goozbach | just to counter-balance the debianness that's forming |
| 17:25.07 | goozbach | :) |
| 17:25.17 | levi | Well, there were some other Debian-based distros that used pretty graphical installers. |
| 17:25.24 | hans | goozbach: debianness doesn't form the fad way. It fights uphill battles everywhere and still manages to keep a following |
| 17:25.34 | sjansen | levi: Unbuntu isn't one of them. |
| 17:25.53 | levi | sjansen: Okay. I don't really care about nice-looking installers, anyway. I only care that they work well. |
| 17:26.04 | sjansen | and I don't think it does |
| 17:26.14 | goozbach | hans: I'm still hurt from the first and last time I tried to install debian |
| 17:26.14 | sjansen | sure, it got the distro on my disk, but it took some prodding |
| 17:26.15 | levi | sjansen: Why not? |
| 17:26.25 | goozbach | I'm just venting, don't mind me. |
| 17:26.39 | hans | goozbach: a true sjansen follower |
| 17:26.43 | sjansen | because I wanted to do more than fit it into a nice little partition of it's own, or whack an entire disk |
| 17:27.12 | hans | partitioning is easy |
| 17:27.14 | hans | tell the truth |
| 17:27.18 | sjansen | I had very specific ideas about using LVM to make it possible for Ubuntu to co-exist with other distros. |
| 17:27.31 | sjansen | Not compared to Fedora. It's even harder than with SUSE. |
| 17:27.37 | hans | and you expected the installer to come prepared to do your specific wishes? |
| 17:27.56 | hans | ditto |
| 17:28.19 | sjansen | hans: cake in Fedora, only a tiny bit harder in SUSE, Ubunut needed encouragement |
| 17:28.22 | hans | if you want to do things like lvm and raid, there's no reason an installer should be holding your hand |
| 17:28.34 | sjansen | why not? |
| 17:28.51 | hans | advanced features |
| 17:28.55 | Jayce^ | sjansen, so you want clippy in the installer? :) |
| 17:29.12 | sjansen | So installers shouldn't have advanced features? |
| 17:29.18 | levi | Heh. The Windows installer is uglier AND less featureful. |
| 17:29.39 | hans | sjansen: I don't mind if they do, but no. |
| 17:29.57 | hans | If I'm going to do something advanced, just give me the prompt and let me do it. |
| 17:30.01 | Jayce^ | try partitioning in a windows setup again sometime... then you'll find out how hard it really can be to get things done |
| 17:30.19 | sjansen | As I get to know the Debian package system, I'm coming to agree that it's better. But the installer still stinnks. |
| 17:30.21 | hans | or give me an alternative way taht makes sense |
| 17:32.47 | sjansen | ~groklaw |
| 17:32.48 | ibot | methinks groklaw is the best place to learn about the SCO lawsuits |
| 17:33.35 | JoshH | debians installer has always been a source of complaints. personally, i never minded it. but most people agree that once installed, it blows any other distro away. |
| 17:34.00 | sjansen | I sure wouldn't say that it "blows any other distro away". |
| 17:34.02 | JoshH | because of the package system. |
| 17:34.10 | sjansen | Maybe for a small set of requirements. |
| 17:34.27 | hans | or perhaps your extra requirements are the small set |
| 17:34.30 | Jayce^ | I've always enjoyed it on a server, but always had problems with a desktop |
| 17:34.48 | Jayce^ | and usually been turned off by the fanatical gpl faction :) |
| 17:34.49 | sjansen | Recent _and_ stable. Yeah, you're right, hans, few people want that. |
| 17:34.57 | JoshH | ive always thought it was the best for a desktop, because a desktop is what i like to keep everythig up to date on, which is why apt is so nice |
| 17:35.44 | hans | sjansen: you need to work on your argument. we've told you over and over and over that debian testing is more stable than the latest FC |
| 17:35.49 | hans | or gentoo or what have you |
| 17:35.49 | JoshH | Jayce^: the license zealots are definitely annoying. also, places like #debian are a huge turn off for new users, since everyone is such a prick there. |
| 17:35.53 | hans | ar at least _as_ stable |
| 17:36.06 | sjansen | and my experience has shown me otherwise |
| 17:36.10 | Jayce^ | JoshH, exactly, and it's not debian specific of course, happens to most projects.. |
| 17:36.11 | hans | come back in a month |
| 17:36.11 | JoshH | debian sid is more stable than FC |
| 17:36.13 | hans | and tell us that. |
| 17:36.31 | sjansen | sid, huh? |
| 17:36.32 | hans | actually, give it 6 months |
| 17:36.36 | Jayce^ | same reason I hate most pg zealots :) |
| 17:36.51 | JoshH | zealots of any kind are annoying. |
| 17:36.55 | sjansen | If I trusted Ubuntu completely, I wouldn't be able to check my mail right now. |
| 17:37.12 | hans | i don't see why |
| 17:37.17 | Jayce^ | sjansen, which ubuntu are you running? |
| 17:37.27 | sjansen | Evolutution is currently dying with a floating point error. |
| 17:37.44 | hans | so evolution is broken |
| 17:37.46 | JoshH | so use thunderbird, problem solved. |
| 17:37.52 | sjansen | heh |
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| 17:37.56 | hans | what's your point? |
| 17:38.06 | *** part/#utah jinro (~jinro@c-24-2-95-30.client.comcast.net) |
| 17:38.07 | Jayce^ | sjansen, your problem is gnome... it hates people :) |
| 17:38.25 | sjansen | I don't want to hop back and forth between thunderbird/evolution/mutt/your new excuse because one of them broke. |
| 17:38.33 | Jayce^ | felt |
| 17:38.44 | sjansen | Gnome has always been nice to me. It just hate you specifically, Jayce^. |
| 17:38.46 | Jayce^ | I used gnome a long time ago, then it started hating me |
| 17:39.23 | JoshH | whatever wm i use always depended on how nice of a computer i was using |
| 17:39.36 | JoshH | i used to use windowmaker a long time ago |
| 17:39.38 | goozbach | use xfce |
| 17:39.44 | JoshH | then decided i like fluxbox better |
| 17:39.49 | Jayce^ | oh yeah.. kde on my powerstation... fluxbox or others on my laptop |
| 17:40.01 | goozbach | xfce... light weight, and pretty |
| 17:40.06 | JoshH | on fast modern machines i like gnome, and now XFCE |
| 17:41.07 | JoshH | im using the the xfce 4.2 debian packages from os-works.com, and its sweet |
| 17:42.42 | goozbach | I'm using the FC3 supplied rpms with the add-ons from dag.wieers and it's awesomly sweet |
| 17:43.42 | sjansen | I'm getting a giant aluminum fin added onto my car, and it's going to be awesomely sweet. |
| 17:45.00 | Jayce^ | GOSH |
| 17:45.46 | sjansen | Then I'm going to tune the heck out of my four-banger and remove the muffler. |
| 17:46.28 | JoshH | lol |
| 17:47.18 | JoshH | i saw some beater the other day with a huge spoiler on it |
| 17:47.36 | JoshH | the car looked like it could fall apart at any second |
| 17:47.41 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~Scott@128.187.254.128) |
| 17:47.57 | SpecialK | |lart Maquis |
| 17:48.00 | sjansen | Did it have three colors of fenders? |
| 17:48.06 | Jayce^ | spinners on any old 70's/80's POS... I've seen too many of those around here |
| 17:48.11 | JoshH | dark blue, faded blue, and bondo |
| 17:48.18 | levi | sjansen: You know, you really CAN tune a 4-banger for a lot of power. But not just by removing the muffler. |
| 17:48.29 | tensai | wow. who'd have figured that learning the binary format of IP packets would come in handy one day. |
| 17:48.37 | Jayce^ | levi, but your 4-banger is quite a bit different than his :) |
| 17:48.53 | Jayce^ | tensai, please regail us with this geek tale.. |
| 17:49.31 | tensai | I've got a *huge* tcpdump file which is practically impossible to use with ethereal. I just need one set of packets out of the middle. |
| 17:49.34 | *** join/#utah fluxCap (~lamontp@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:50.02 | tensai | so, I split it up with dd and grepped for the string I need. those files aren't useful because they don't have a pcap header. |
| 17:50.43 | tensai | I opened the file in a hex editor and found the string. by parsing the ip headers myself, I found the source address. now I can filter just on that in ethereal. |
| 17:51.35 | tensai | you can applaud now |
| 17:52.25 | goozbach | *applause* |
| 17:53.02 | sjansen | show off |
| 17:53.25 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 17:53.35 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@67-50-102-63.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 17:53.55 | findlay | proof that CDDB doesn't cut it for classical music: |
| 17:53.58 | findlay | Playing mp3/dvorak/slavonic_dances_cleveland_orchestra_george_szell/op_46_4_in_f_major_tempo_di_minuetto.mp3. |
| 17:54.39 | findlay | you need a richer database style of info, not just flat tags in the file path |
| 17:55.20 | hans | anyone have anything to say about alcatel st510v4 vs speedstream efficient 5100 |
| 17:59.22 | sjansen | * Rumor is that the "d" in "dnotify" does not stand for "directory" but for "suck." -- rml |
| 18:00.20 | *** join/#utah minam (~jgb3@c-67-166-99-64.client.comcast.net) |
| 18:00.23 | sjansen | Although I'm not sure I'd agree with a statement like "Usage is nice ... via ioctl() ..." |
| 18:01.16 | *** join/#utah mhatch (~mhatch@66.239.25.74.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:01.48 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:02.23 | findlay | what kind of wiring goes through your infrastructure? |
| 18:03.24 | emcnabb | Jayce^, what MTA are you using? |
| 18:04.30 | tensai | it's one he cobbled together using Net::SMTP running on a PII 350 under his desk |
| 18:04.36 | hans | sjansen: ok, if I can nuke the reply-to |
| 18:04.36 | Jayce^ | emcnabb, lotsa stuff :) |
| 18:05.03 | Jayce^ | tensai, actually :) |
| 18:05.27 | Jayce^ | most of that runs through level 3 in LA and New York.. some others too though |
| 18:07.24 | mhatch | Gee... 19 Million/day sure beats my measly 65,000/week |
| 18:07.33 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (~zorb@c-24-2-80-89.client.comcast.net) |
| 18:07.58 | Jayce^ | just a little bigger company :) |
| 18:08.05 | Jayce^ | that's incoming BTW. |
| 18:08.05 | mhatch | hehe |
| 18:08.08 | mhatch | same |
| 18:08.17 | findlay | copper, fiber/fibre, x-rays, subspace fempto-channles? |
| 18:08.27 | mhatch | ~55,000 of the 65,000 instantly goes to the bit bucket anyway... |
| 18:09.37 | goozbach | they're using ansible |
| 18:12.14 | sjansen | with a string-and-tin-can network for backup |
| 18:13.04 | *** join/#utah Goshen (~Goshen@70-57-80-147.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 18:17.34 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 18:17.55 | findlay | ~lart manti telephone |
| 18:18.00 | findlay | |lart manti telephone |
| 18:18.56 | sjansen | http://ltue.byu.edu/ |
| 18:19.59 | sjansen | Now that's just a cool name of a book: "Enya Burning" |
| 18:23.28 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 18:24.30 | levi | Gah. I'm trying to figure out how to get a monospace font installed on my treo600. It is not easy. |
| 18:30.01 | *** join/#utah markl__ (mark@knm82.knm.org) |
| 18:32.03 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 18:37.51 | sjansen | So, uh, for most of the drive to work today, I entertained myself by singing "freira jaca" and picturing a spiny, watermelon sized fruit wearing a nun's habit. |
| 18:38.22 | sjansen | That's not normal, right? |
| 18:38.59 | sjansen | Should I be happy that I can find pleasure in a simple multi-lingual pun? Or should I worry that I'm losing what little of my mind is left? |
| 18:39.09 | *** part/#utah auto_ (~auto@64.136.200.212) |
| 18:43.06 | findlay | I just want to make sure I do this right: |
| 18:43.49 | findlay | If I want to allow remote ssh logins on a port other than 22 I use the RemoteForward variable in /etc/ssh/ssc_config |
| 18:43.57 | findlay | right? |
| 18:44.51 | tensai | you want ssh to listen on a port other than 22? |
| 18:45.30 | *** join/#utah mhatch (~mhatch@66.239.25.74.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:45.31 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:45.31 | sjansen | permitted. See also ListenAddress. |
| 18:45.51 | findlay | tensai: is that bad? |
| 18:45.53 | sjansen | man sshd_config |
| 18:46.06 | findlay | the ISP's firewall blocks all priveledged ports |
| 18:46.18 | tensai | no, it's fine. if that's the case then you've got the wrong option. see what sjansen wrote. |
| 18:46.27 | findlay | OK |
| 18:47.02 | findlay | ooh, that looks much simpler, probably what I need (: |
| 18:47.48 | sjansen | that's what you get for forgetting to dis-integrate for the co-efficient of strawberry |
| 18:48.36 | findlay | right, I anti-derived instead and got the wrong eigen function whose determinants looked correct nevertheless |
| 18:49.20 | goozbach | whatever you do, don't ! disable = yes.. it |
| 18:50.34 | goozbach | yes... |
| 18:50.54 | findlay | OK...too late! ahh!! someone's replaced all my carefully collected Bach selection with Metllica! |
| 18:51.04 | Jayce^ | apple lowered the cost on the upgrades for the mini.... |
| 18:51.06 | goozbach | heh |
| 18:51.39 | Goshen | jayce= slashdot news? :) |
| 18:51.52 | Goshen | little irc slashdot news feed :) |
| 18:52.07 | Jayce^ | nah, actually haven't read /. in a while.. just getting it from a friend.. |
| 18:52.15 | Jayce^ | and drooling :) |
| 18:52.34 | Goshen | ahh |
| 18:52.44 | Goshen | what system would you put on it? |
| 18:52.55 | Jayce^ | I'd keep osx for the time |
| 18:53.03 | Jayce^ | hook it up to the tv.. |
| 18:53.13 | Goshen | why Tv? |
| 18:53.49 | sjansen | because a better screen is deserving of a more powerful system |
| 18:54.01 | Jayce^ | because it's a nice HD monitor.. |
| 18:54.04 | Jayce^ | 1920x1200 |
| 18:54.10 | Goshen | ahh |
| 18:54.16 | Jayce^ | sjansen, but mine would be 48" :) |
| 18:55.02 | sjansen | But mine is portable by a single person, with room for a power converter. |
| 18:55.35 | Jayce^ | sjansen, yeah, but mine is BIG :) |
| 18:55.41 | Jayce^ | and has a couch in front of it |
| 18:56.02 | goozbach | probally has better sound to boot |
| 18:56.15 | Jayce^ | yeah :) |
| 18:56.17 | Jayce^ | "When I saw the mini -- the dimensions and the specs -- I thought, this is perfect for the car," said Benzaquen. "I'd be surprised if Apple didn't think of installing it in a car, it's so perfect.... You don't have to do anything except mount it and plug it in. It even has voice-recognition built in. It's almost too easy." |
| 18:56.18 | Jayce^ | Benzaquen said the mini is the ideal size for a standard car stereo compartment, and it's 18-volt power supply is easily fed with standard 12-volt auto power. And because Mac OS X has voice recognition built in, the mini can be controlled hands free. |
| 18:56.22 | sjansen | yeah, but mine has hardware that can suddenly slide into a parallel universe |
| 18:59.40 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@translate.sento.com) |
| 19:02.48 | Goshen | what the... |
| 19:03.01 | Goshen | microsoft is advertising on slashdot for their windows servers |
| 19:03.19 | sjansen | MS has advertised on Slashdot for some time. |
| 19:03.23 | Goshen | with a quote..."switching from windows to linux can be prohobitivly expensive" |
| 19:03.32 | sjansen | A depressing number of Slashdot readers use IE. |
| 19:03.36 | Goshen | gues I didn't notice, because firefox ad blocking blocks most of them :) |
| 19:04.01 | Goshen | right click...bam..one more doubleclick server on the don't show list |
| 19:05.49 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (~zorb@c-24-2-80-89.client.comcast.net) |
| 19:06.44 | findlay | OK, supposing there is some piece of software hiding in the furtive recesses of my system that calls itself a firewall, where would I find it? |
| 19:07.15 | sjansen | the kernel |
| 19:07.49 | findlay | does it use to a config file? |
| 19:07.57 | sjansen | maybe |
| 19:08.00 | sjansen | what distro? |
| 19:08.00 | brigham | what distro are you on now? did you follow redhat to fedora? |
| 19:08.12 | goozbach | more than likely you are looking for the userland tools to modify said firewall |
| 19:08.14 | sjansen | brigham: shut up |
| 19:08.25 | goozbach | try iptables, ipchains, ipfilter |
| 19:08.39 | findlay | Gentoo Base System version 1.4.16 |
| 19:10.59 | sjansen | Everybody cool abandoned Gentoo a long time ago. Now they use Ubuntu. ;-) |
| 19:14.51 | Maquis | sjansen: not true |
| 19:15.23 | sjansen | Maquis: I define truth and coolness, so I'm pretty sure I'm correct. |
| 19:15.50 | sjansen | Yep, I'm still right. |
| 19:16.15 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:19.08 | findlay | haha |
| 19:26.13 | sjansen | teach them how to set modified dates using touch |
| 19:26.28 | Maquis | sjansen: naughty! |
| 19:28.20 | hans | nah. just give them a chance to demonstrate their worth by withstanding the temptation |
| 19:28.58 | sjansen | the best way is to demonstrate not needing to by always passing everything off a week early |
| 19:29.40 | Maquis | sjansen: i'm sure that's what you did, right? |
| 19:29.42 | sjansen | s/not needing/worth is showing no need to/ |
| 19:30.29 | sjansen | which reminds me, those lazy bums still haven't sent me my diploma |
| 19:30.42 | sjansen | Maquis: in classes that I passed... basically |
| 19:31.04 | Maquis | sjansen: random question |
| 19:31.17 | Maquis | ummm... have you ever had anything that you try to run as root randomly hang? |
| 19:31.35 | Maquis | (started right after zsh seg-faulted when i was root, and sent me back to my original user) |
| 19:31.38 | hans | Maquis: there was that one rootkit |
| 19:31.53 | Maquis | |lart hans |
| 19:32.08 | Maquis | killall -9 doesn't do anything |
| 19:32.14 | Maquis | i'm ot on the network... |
| 19:32.21 | hans | ot? |
| 19:32.26 | Maquis | not |
| 19:32.27 | hans | you're off-topic on-line? |
| 19:32.38 | Maquis | hans: bad time to pick on me right now |
| 19:33.06 | Maquis | oh goody! now computer is completely locked up!!!! GRRRRRRRR |
| 19:33.45 | sjansen | Maquis: seems like the most effective time to pick on you |
| 19:33.54 | hans | well if "anything" you did in root was hanging, my suspicion is a kernel panic |
| 19:34.10 | hans | a complete lockup shortly thereafter supports my hypothesis |
| 19:34.18 | Maquis | hans: wouldn't it be nice of it to let me know that there was a kernel panic? |
| 19:34.22 | hans | well, I should say kernel oops |
| 19:34.25 | Maquis | sjansen: :( |
| 19:34.28 | hans | Maquis: probably did, on the console and in the logs |
| 19:34.35 | Maquis | i wasn't even in my new kernel |
| 19:34.38 | sjansen | unless it was so bad it couldn't |
| 19:34.42 | Maquis | i was in 2.6.10 |
| 19:34.42 | bucky | chattr and lsattr can be fun too |
| 19:34.44 | hans | now's your chance. |
| 19:34.47 | tensai | the console should have a nice message if the kernel panics |
| 19:34.56 | sjansen | to say nothing of selinux |
| 19:35.40 | Maquis | what if dmesg doesn't have anything about it? |
| 19:35.51 | Maquis | oh wait... |
| 19:35.51 | Maquis | nm |
| 19:35.53 | Maquis | i found it |
| 19:35.54 | hans | syslog |
| 19:36.09 | bucky | selinux is good for locking down lo |
| 19:36.23 | sjansen | se-linux is good for locking many things |
| 19:36.35 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 19:37.23 | sjansen | In fact, I heard the president of indonesia once got locked into his WinCE powered limo when an se-linux user in Bavaria accidentally wrote a bad policy for his toaster. |
| 19:38.06 | bucky | the indonesians are out sourcing to bravaria now? |
| 19:38.50 | hans | or is this a hhgg-esque side effect of the bavarian's breakfast? |
| 19:38.50 | sjansen | no, it's just that a quantum cryptographer was in the same office and had used the toaster earlier that day |
| 19:38.58 | bucky | lol |
| 19:39.23 | goozbach | sjansen: stop eating the guru-blue putty |
| 19:40.00 | Maquis | speaking of which... |
| 19:40.07 | Maquis | you two need to come up with more stories |
| 19:41.03 | sjansen | well.... there was the time goozbach and emcnabb played chicken by sprinting across the interstate |
| 19:41.30 | sjansen | goozbach cheated by riding a passing semi |
| 19:41.32 | Maquis | stupid computer won't let me mount my usb card |
| 19:41.33 | goozbach | that was fun |
| 19:41.44 | goozbach | my shoulder still hurts from grabbing the mirror |
| 19:42.15 | goozbach | and when emcnabb tripped over the median |
| 19:42.19 | Maquis | Newsome: the lab computers hate me! |
| 19:42.26 | goozbach | landed in the fast lane face down |
| 19:42.31 | emcnabb | um... I don't remember that, but I guess I wouldn't if that had happened to me |
| 19:43.10 | goozbach | luckily I kicked him under the chassis of the suv that would have taken his legs off |
| 19:43.28 | emcnabb | thanks goozbach |
| 19:43.29 | Maquis | emcnabb: did you get my IM? |
| 19:43.35 | Maquis | (this morning)? |
| 19:43.42 | emcnabb | hum |
| 19:43.44 | goozbach | emcnabb: no prob |
| 19:43.45 | emcnabb | I don't remember |
| 19:43.52 | emcnabb | oh, yeah |
| 19:44.01 | emcnabb | I remember, about the doc I should proofread |
| 19:44.05 | sjansen | emcnabb: I told you it was too soon after the accident to travel. |
| 19:44.06 | Maquis | yeah... |
| 19:44.10 | emcnabb | I haven't been able to |
| 19:44.28 | Maquis | ok |
| 19:44.31 | Maquis | just whenever... :) |
| 19:44.40 | Maquis | i've gotten a couple people to look at it :) |
| 19:44.42 | hans | emcnabb is doing your homework? |
| 19:44.58 | emcnabb | nope |
| 19:45.13 | sjansen | hans: she wants to pass, of course not |
| 19:45.39 | Maquis | :) |
| 19:45.44 | Maquis | i never make others do my homework |
| 19:45.54 | Maquis | just working on resume |
| 19:45.57 | sjansen | just "let" them |
| 19:47.36 | Maquis | anyone else have problems with laptops randomly turning themselves on while in backpack? |
| 19:47.54 | hans | I never hang out in my backpack, couldn't say. |
| 19:48.10 | goozbach | Maquis: nope, because the power button is well-protected |
| 19:48.24 | sjansen | occam's razor tells me your forgot to turn it off |
| 19:48.28 | goozbach | another benifit of superior ibm hardware |
| 19:48.33 | hans | or your power button is exposed |
| 19:48.53 | goozbach | sjansen: occam's razor doesn't let me be elitist |
| 19:48.59 | emcnabb | I think there are little elves in your backpack |
| 19:49.01 | goozbach | or does it? |
| 19:49.01 | hans | goozbach: they may have superior h ardware in their laptops, but they're dang ugly. |
| 19:49.09 | emcnabb | hans, no way |
| 19:49.13 | goozbach | I dissagree |
| 19:49.14 | emcnabb | I like plain colors |
| 19:49.22 | goozbach | so you must be wrong |
| 19:49.28 | hans | I like black. I like the keyboard (except fotr the lack of a meta key) |
| 19:49.36 | emcnabb | much better than all these new "fancy" designs |
| 19:49.38 | goozbach | <alt> |
| 19:49.41 | hans | but the thing is just ugly |
| 19:49.47 | sjansen | IBM's look nice in a "we're not so lazy as to try and copy Apple" sort of way |
| 19:49.57 | goozbach | oh yeah |
| 19:50.26 | hans | I think I prefer IBM's ugly to most other laptop uglies |
| 19:50.31 | Maquis | sjansen: i know i turned it off |
| 19:50.41 | hans | I never said there was a good alternative. :) Just that the things are dang ugly |
| 19:50.50 | emcnabb | I liked Dell's old Inspiron look |
| 19:50.54 | emcnabb | now they suck |
| 19:51.07 | goozbach | the alienware look nice |
| 19:51.14 | goozbach | neon colors and such |
| 19:51.18 | sjansen | my HP is okay, neither horrid nor inspiring |
| 19:51.24 | goozbach | it's too bad the hardware sucks |
| 19:51.31 | goozbach | and that they're overpriced |
| 20:12.43 | bucky | chattr -Rjia /var |
| 20:14.25 | bucky | lesee nope, chattr -R +i /var |
| 20:14.31 | bucky | hmm.. |
| 20:14.51 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@66.239.17.228.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:23.11 | *** join/#utah alphahawk (~alphahawk@70.56.105.158) |
| 20:42.29 | drewbono | Any mailman experts on here? |
| 20:46.54 | Goshen | I have it installed and running, but not even close to expert |
| 20:47.17 | Goshen | I just did a urpmi mailman, and started my first list, and I was up and going :P |
| 20:48.17 | drewbono | I'm looking for info on umbrella lists. |
| 20:49.18 | Goshen | http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/solutions/umbrella.html |
| 20:49.56 | Goshen | first hit on google :) |
| 20:50.18 | Goshen | This looks helpful as well |
| 20:50.19 | Goshen | http://www.washington.edu/computing/mailman/faqs/mailman.umbrella.html |
| 20:51.12 | goozbach | why would you want /var immutable |
| 20:51.24 | goozbach | it by definition is varible data |
| 20:52.48 | Goshen | Don't you love it when you are reading along, and see utah mentioned? |
| 20:52.51 | *** join/#utah joshc (~josh@jcoates.org) |
| 20:52.54 | Goshen | http://searchenterprisevoice.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid66_gci1047283,00.html?track=NL-85&ad=502184 |
| 20:53.12 | Goshen | was reading a page about voip and realized this guy is in Midvale |
| 20:54.41 | sjansen | Work all night and drink rum. |
| 20:54.50 | sjansen | Day light come and me wanna go home. |
| 20:54.50 | *** join/#utah EC1 (~ecs@ecs-dell.byu.edu) |
| 20:55.05 | sjansen | Come Mister Tally-man, tally me bannanna. |
| 20:55.06 | sjansen | Day light come and me wanna go home. |
| 20:55.21 | goozbach | sjansen: please stay out of the putty |
| 20:58.52 | joshc | so i looked at commercial realestate today |
| 20:59.16 | joshc | it's not bad - $12-18/sqft per year |
| 20:59.25 | Goshen | For what? |
| 20:59.30 | joshc | my company |
| 20:59.45 | Bradipo | And what are the taxes on it? |
| 20:59.58 | Jayce^ | what areas you looking in? |
| 21:00.00 | joshc | i wouldnt pay tax on it - you lease it. |
| 21:00.13 | joshc | i'm looking between AF and draper |
| 21:00.22 | Jayce^ | freeway properties? |
| 21:00.25 | joshc | yep |
| 21:00.32 | Jayce^ | what Class level? |
| 21:00.46 | joshc | A of course ;-) |
| 21:00.57 | Jayce^ | ahh, that's why the price is that level :) |
| 21:01.22 | joshc | 'that level' too high or too low? |
| 21:01.28 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 21:01.41 | Jayce^ | well, other classes can get you a lot cheaper.. |
| 21:01.48 | joshc | like warehouse? |
| 21:02.04 | Jayce^ | well, not that low :) but that is a *lot* cheaper :) |
| 21:02.23 | bucky | Goshen, according to netcraft.net Cortner's company www.burtongroup.com runs on Microsoft-IIS |
| 21:02.52 | Jayce^ | most of the freeway properties in that area won't be class b or such though |
| 21:02.53 | Goshen | thats unfortunate |
| 21:03.05 | bucky | he needs help |
| 21:03.15 | joshc | hey, $3-4K a month isnt bad for a few thousand square feet. |
| 21:03.25 | Jayce^ | very true, especially where you are coming from |
| 21:03.46 | joshc | i guess that's about 1/4 of an employee |
| 21:03.57 | joshc | full burdened. |
| 21:04.37 | Jayce^ | 1/4 of an employee's cost? |
| 21:05.01 | joshc | yeah. a fully burdened employee is going to run between $12-18K |
| 21:05.05 | joshc | per year |
| 21:05.09 | joshc | er, per month |
| 21:05.24 | Jayce^ | hrm, seems high, but I must be not factoring stuff. |
| 21:05.31 | Jayce^ | or you are paying really well :) |
| 21:05.43 | joshc | nope - that's about what it is. the burden is a big piece of it. |
| 21:05.59 | bucky | i want $16k a month |
| 21:06.00 | Jayce^ | how much hardware you factoring in there? |
| 21:06.07 | bucky | can i have a job? |
| 21:06.22 | Jayce^ | bucky, don't forget power, benefits, hardware, software, TAXES, etc.. |
| 21:06.25 | joshc | i'd have to check my financial model |
| 21:06.58 | bucky | you guys live good there in happy valley |
| 21:07.17 | joshc | where are you bucky? |
| 21:07.29 | bucky | san juan county |
| 21:07.39 | joshc | is that in utah? |
| 21:08.01 | bucky | it's the largest geographic region in Utah |
| 21:08.03 | Jayce^ | joshc, just seems like you have a higher amount of overhead on an employee than I would figure, but then, I try to avoid that kind of management :) (school taught me better than to want that) |
| 21:08.03 | joshc | sorry. :-/ |
| 21:08.17 | sjansen | Yes, but is it _really_ Utah? |
| 21:08.48 | Jayce^ | what is Utah _really_? An essay by sjansen.. |
| 21:08.55 | bucky | last time i checked it wasn't colorado |
| 21:09.10 | bucky | or new mexico or arizona for that matter |
| 21:09.14 | goozbach | bucky: according to sjansen I don't live in utah either |
| 21:09.19 | joshc | $12-18K is a rule of thumb for software companies - we're probably on the low end. |
| 21:09.20 | sjansen | Utah is freeways filled with bad drivers travelling between contruction sites. |
| 21:09.32 | goozbach | even though my zip code says otherwise |
| 21:09.47 | Jayce^ | goozbach, yeah, but then la-la-land isn't really a place |
| 21:09.50 | joshc | we're in a position to offer much more equity, and philosophically, we're more shared-ownership based than most startups. |
| 21:10.16 | joshc | utah drivers tailgate more than california drivers - thats one thing i've noticed. |
| 21:10.35 | Jayce^ | joshc, hey, I won't fault you for giving more to employees :) just used to utah companies now.. |
| 21:10.44 | sjansen | "life the universe and everything |
| 21:10.51 | Jayce^ | dunno, la drivers seem to clip onto your bumper to save gas.. |
| 21:10.54 | sjansen | oops |
| 21:10.55 | bucky | well if the pioneers hadn't of pulled their hand carts thru canyon lands to get here san juan county probably wouldn't have been in utah |
| 21:11.02 | Jayce^ | sjansen, you going to attend this year? |
| 21:11.38 | sjansen | don't know |
| 21:12.05 | sjansen | http://www.thismagazine.ca/issues/2002/11/rebelsell.php |
| 21:12.25 | goozbach | the greatest song title ever?... |
| 21:12.32 | bucky | sjansen, you should go to the psychic fair at the OC Tanner building.. maybe you'll get some ideas for your stories |
| 21:12.38 | goozbach | "Who said you could touch me?" |
| 21:12.39 | goozbach | or |
| 21:13.03 | goozbach | "I want to get a mohawk(but my mom won't let me)"? |
| 21:13.09 | joshc | speaking of.. |
| 21:13.16 | joshc | i saw slc-punk a couple weeks ago |
| 21:13.19 | *** join/#utah jinro (~jinro@c-24-2-95-30.client.comcast.net) |
| 21:13.28 | joshc | it's a pretty good movie. |
| 21:13.34 | joshc | suprisingly good. |
| 21:13.42 | bucky | lol If we all hate consumerism, how come we can?t stop shopping? |
| 21:13.59 | sjansen | goozbach: That second could make a really interesting New Country song. |
| 21:14.12 | goozbach | sjansen: it's already a punk song |
| 21:14.20 | hans | talk for yourself. I don't hate consumerism but have depressingly little shopping momentum |
| 21:14.48 | joshc | do a country cover of it |
| 21:14.53 | joshc | those punks would hate that |
| 21:15.08 | joshc | i used to go to a punk club in berkeley |
| 21:15.15 | hans | "I want to get a pickup (but my hag won't let me)" |
| 21:15.15 | joshc | on gillman street |
| 21:15.30 | Bradipo | bucky: We can't stop shopping because of inflation. If you hold your money, it loses value. |
| 21:15.44 | Bradipo | Maybe one day we'll see hyperinflation, that would be cool. |
| 21:15.48 | bucky | Bradipo, it was sjansen |
| 21:15.52 | bucky | his link |
| 21:16.01 | joshc | hyperinflation helped germany into ww2...not so good... |
| 21:16.23 | Bradipo | joshc: I was being sarcastic. Yeah, Germany was certainly devastated by it. |
| 21:16.29 | joshc | hey, so anyone know a good LAMP expert that wants to work in the most technically interesting company in utah? |
| 21:16.30 | *** join/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.116) |
| 21:16.52 | joshc | bradipo - i'm slow on the sarcasm-detection. |
| 21:16.57 | Jayce^ | LAMPerl :) |
| 21:17.03 | hans | mei vater isch a appenzeller |
| 21:17.13 | joshc | hey, it doesnt *have* to be php..i'm flexible. |
| 21:17.22 | goozbach | they used a web-server to film fight club? |
| 21:17.45 | joshc | fight club is a good movie too - i was also surprised by that. |
| 21:17.51 | goozbach | "this scene is just a cgi-driven update of the opening pages of John Updike’s Rabbit," |
| 21:18.04 | goozbach | mod_cgi? |
| 21:18.09 | joshc | ah - speaking of rabbits - you guys have seen donnie darko, right? |
| 21:18.13 | bucky | Bradipo, there was a pretty funny article in news forge about running windows viruses in wine |
| 21:18.13 | goozbach | ohh |
| 21:18.40 | Bradipo | bucky: I didn't see it, that would be interesting. |
| 21:18.45 | bucky | http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/01/25/1430222&from=rss |
| 21:21.45 | joshc | so i guess no one saw donnie darko.. |
| 21:22.13 | bucky | good question.. have a good day guys |
| 21:22.20 | *** part/#utah bucky (~bucky@67-50-102-63.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 21:23.11 | Jayce^ | Quite a few, we were just testing some zombie control systems here today.. big hit. |
| 21:23.55 | sjansen | http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/kimon/Publish.html |
| 21:35.03 | sjansen | The thing that's best if you're feelin' glum |
| 21:35.04 | sjansen | Is coconut water with a little rum |
| 21:35.04 | sjansen | It could make you very tipsy, four for five |
| 21:35.04 | sjansen | Make you feel like a gypsy, four for five |
| 21:35.04 | sjansen | Coco got a lotta iron, four for five |
| 21:35.04 | sjansen | Make you strong like a lion, four for five |
| 21:36.10 | levi | sjansen: There you go crapflooding again. :P |
| 21:36.22 | emcnabb | exactly |
| 21:36.58 | hans | almost you inspire me to write the MySJansen virus |
| 21:38.14 | joshc | l8r gents. |
| 21:38.17 | *** part/#utah joshc (~josh@jcoates.org) |
| 21:43.47 | mheath | Hmm. In Linux, are parallel zip drives sd*# devices? |
| 21:44.06 | hans | probably |
| 21:44.41 | mrpull | yikes heath... i've got an old cdrw you can have if you want to spare yourself the pain of a zip drive :) |
| 21:45.04 | mrpull | one of my first tries at linux was "zipslack" |
| 21:45.57 | mheath | Um. It's not a distro, it's a subset of Slackware itself, and it's actively maintained along with Slackware |
| 21:46.24 | mrpull | really? still? people want a disto on a zip drive still? |
| 21:46.27 | mrpull | that is awesome. |
| 21:47.11 | Jayce^ | "Let's do the time warp again..." |
| 21:47.11 | sjansen | ... Maybe it's like playing retro video games. |
| 21:47.42 | JoshH | id rather use slackware than suse any day |
| 21:48.49 | JoshH | sjansen: it seems like your top priorities in a distro are a pretty graphical installer, as much working out of the box as possible, automatic mounting, etc. slackware isnt like that, but its very simple, fast, and stable. |
| 21:49.29 | sjansen | I'd rather use ..... than SUSE isn't a strong argument. ;-) |
| 21:49.41 | JoshH | im not arguing. ;) |
| 21:50.04 | JoshH | but slackware isnt exactly a blast from the past |
| 21:51.24 | sjansen | I favor low maintenance, ease of customization, and availability of high-quality packages. |
| 21:51.31 | mrpull | whoops. I guess it is called zipslack. |
| 21:51.39 | *** part/#utah jinro (~jinro@c-24-2-95-30.client.comcast.net) |
| 21:51.41 | sjansen | Most distros only achieve 2 of 3, and none is perfect. |
| 21:52.00 | mrpull | i figured it had disappeared into oblivion |
| 21:52.23 | mheath | sjansen: slackware's installation is kept minimal for simplicity, speed, and ease of customization. It's packages are renound for high quality and stability..... |
| 21:52.53 | mheath | It's very low maintance out of the box, yet allows you to easily customize things or take advanced control over something |
| 21:53.33 | mheath | And my custom gnome desktop on Slackware beats anything any other distro will give you out of the box :) |
| 21:53.36 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 21:54.09 | JoshH | the only thing i prefer about debian over slackware is apt and the huge amount of packages. |
| 21:54.44 | mheath | apt is nice but very mess, imho (but I've already gone into that before..) |
| 21:54.52 | JoshH | heh, ya |
| 21:55.18 | levi | But it does have Super Cow Powers. |
| 21:55.30 | levi | Who else can boast that? |
| 21:55.40 | JoshH | i dunno, not to knock suse or anything because they do make a very nice polished product, but ever since i first tried slackware and debian i just couldnt stand the RPM distros anymore |
| 21:55.45 | hans | I wonder if you could make a p2p distro |
| 21:55.58 | mheath | JoshH: RPM is wonderful, but misused |
| 21:56.07 | levi | hans: Did you go to that p2p thingy that Sen. Hatch had at BYU? |
| 21:56.10 | hans | apt bites but rpm is wonderful? |
| 21:56.17 | mheath | Its great from the distro maintainers point of view |
| 21:56.21 | hans | what have you been smoking? |
| 21:56.30 | mheath | RPM was designed from the grounds up as a means of easily maintaining a distrobution |
| 21:56.39 | JoshH | here we go again... |
| 21:57.43 | hans | levi: um, no. what was that? |
| 21:57.57 | JoshH | this channel has gentoo fans, debian fans, about 3 slackware fans, and fedora/suse fans |
| 21:57.59 | JoshH | i love the diversity |
| 21:58.09 | mrpull | and ubuntu! |
| 21:58.15 | levi | hans: It was a senate hearing or something. Shawn Fanning was there, and a bunch of local dotcoms wanting to catch on the p2p wave. |
| 21:58.18 | fungus | Don't forget the BSD fans! |
| 21:58.27 | JoshH | fungus: there are less of those than slackware fans. |
| 21:58.29 | sjansen | BSD is dying and you know it! |
| 21:58.33 | Uncle_Jesse | and yum too |
| 21:58.38 | JoshH | i think us and macnewbold are the only ones |
| 21:58.42 | Uncle_Jesse | apt is yummy |
| 21:59.05 | levi | yum is apty. |
| 21:59.05 | Uncle_Jesse | OSX! |
| 21:59.12 | JoshH | well and jlp, but he is never here |
| 21:59.35 | levi | At least we don't have any BeOS or AmigaOS fans, do we? |
| 21:59.58 | hans | I hope that wasn't a pun |
| 22:00.17 | JoshH | i also note that the gentoo users are who seem to have the most problems here. =D |
| 22:00.40 | JoshH | debian users the least |
| 22:00.51 | levi | I'm happy to have switched back to debian, at least. |
| 22:00.53 | fungus | Not, the gentoo users are just ricers that want to "optimize" everything. even ls. |
| 22:00.55 | JoshH | since sjansens problems dont count |
| 22:00.56 | mrpull | what fun is any distro if you cant break it? |
| 22:01.09 | sjansen | because by the time you can get Debian onto a system, you know how to wrestle a system into submission. |
| 22:01.43 | levi | I guess you can say that Debian and I have worked out our relationship issues. We're comfortable together now. |
| 22:01.49 | sjansen | JoshH: I don't count because I'm willing to call a spade a spade? |
| 22:01.56 | *** join/#utah auto_ (~auto@64.136.200.212) |
| 22:01.56 | hans | sjansen: yup, and the first and biggest hurdle is getting past all the gainsaying and actually being at peace with the idea of running debian |
| 22:02.00 | JoshH | fungus: hey, an optimized ls is great because it shows you the listings much faster |
| 22:02.27 | hans | and what is a spade - one of those card symbols, a shovel, or what? |
| 22:03.20 | levi | hans: I think 'call a spade a spade' has some racial connotations, but I'm not sure. |
| 22:03.33 | hans | so sjansen is a racist? |
| 22:03.36 | JoshH | hmmm |
| 22:03.46 | sjansen | a distro that makes you choose between 1) ancient 2) no security updates and 3) unstable |
| 22:04.09 | hans | not an ethinc slur. http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxtocall.html |
| 22:04.34 | hans | "There has been a slight shift in meaning: in |
| 22:04.34 | hans | ancient times the phrase was often used pejoratively, to denote a |
| 22:04.34 | hans | rude person who spoke his mind tactlessly; but it now, like the |
| 22:04.35 | hans | English phrase, has an exclusively positive connotation." |
| 22:04.56 | levi | hans: Read a bit further down the page. |
| 22:05.05 | auto_ | Anyone know lynn yocom? |
| 22:06.20 | auto_ | Guess not... |
| 22:06.22 | hans | levi: I see it. That doesn't make its etymology a racial slur |
| 22:06.27 | mrpull | sjansen: you just described why debian doesn't work for me on the desktop |
| 22:06.31 | hans | I never knew niggardly wasn't related to nigger |
| 22:06.35 | sjansen | Interesting, I was only familiar with the prejorative. |
| 22:07.02 | levi | hans: I didn't say the etymology made it a racial slur. Just that it had some racial associations in the past. |
| 22:07.06 | sjansen | niggardly cost a black Harvard professor his job |
| 22:07.31 | levi | I am glad to know that those associations are weak, though. |
| 22:07.35 | sjansen | Must be about 6 years ago now. |
| 22:08.44 | emcnabb | hans, you are a poo-poo head |
| 22:08.46 | hans | I don't have much patience for political correctness, especially when what's being said isn't PC because the offendees decided to be offended. |
| 22:08.49 | emcnabb | someone just told me to say that |
| 22:08.53 | emcnabb | I won't say who |
| 22:08.56 | hans | haha |
| 22:09.01 | hans | |roulette |
| 22:09.02 | brigham | hans: chamber 2 of 6 => +click+ |
| 22:09.21 | hans | ibot, say |roulette |
| 22:09.24 | ibot | |roulette |
| 22:09.24 | brigham | ibot: chamber 3 of 6 => +click+ |
| 22:09.27 | ibot | |ibot? |
| 22:09.28 | brigham | ibot is a silly bot |
| 22:10.21 | fungus | brigham, say |roulette |
| 22:10.45 | brigham | |roulette |
| 22:10.46 | Jayce^ | ~brigham |
| 22:10.47 | ibot | brigham: ibot? |
| 22:11.09 | brigham | ibot is a silly bot |
| 22:19.07 | brailsmt_ | |roulette |
| 22:19.08 | brigham | brailsmt_: chamber 4 of 6 => +click+ |
| 22:24.00 | brailsmt_ | |roulette |
| 22:24.01 | brigham | brailsmt_: chamber 5 of 6 => *BANG* |
| 22:24.04 | brailsmt_ | dang... |
| 22:24.24 | brailsmt_ | i feel pretty good right now, considering I just got shot... |
| 22:30.31 | tensai | |roulette |
| 22:30.32 | brigham | tensai: chamber 1 of 6 => *BANG* |
| 22:30.35 | tensai | |roulette |
| 22:30.36 | brigham | tensai: chamber 1 of 6 => +click+ |
| 22:30.37 | tensai | |roulette |
| 22:30.38 | brigham | tensai: chamber 2 of 6 => +click+ |
| 22:31.19 | brailsmt_ | lol |
| 22:31.32 | brailsmt_ | @ tensai: chamber 1 of 6 => *BANG* |
| 22:31.40 | brailsmt_ | not tensai's lucky day |
| 22:31.59 | *** join/#utah spiderbiter (~spiderbit@38.119.177.194) |
| 22:37.58 | mrpull | I like that the Beagle authors acknowledge "Dependency Heck" in their release notes: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/dashboard-hackers/2005-January/msg00117.html |
| 22:40.05 | mheath | Agh. Who's brilliant idea was it to make a particular SCSI cable size idential to parallel? |
| 22:40.24 | mheath | *friend |
| 22:40.37 | mrpull | what a lousy friend :) |
| 22:41.00 | mheath | Haha. He didn't even know he had it |
| 22:41.27 | mrpull | i think I sent my zip drives to the DI (maybe gave away at last summers swap meet) |
| 22:42.53 | sjansen | ~lart IE |
| 22:43.14 | Maquis | i got a free stuffed chameleon today! |
| 22:43.51 | Maquis | want to trade? |
| 22:44.31 | Maquis | Jayce^: go to their career fair booths :) |
| 22:46.46 | bonez41 | how does one find out what time is it in GMT..grenwich mean time? I have an efax service that tells me the time a fax went out in, gmt instead of local time to me |
| 22:47.09 | mrpull | bonez... what time zone are you in? |
| 22:47.10 | Maquis | bonez41: i'd look up online what the time difference is |
| 22:47.25 | goozbach | bonez41: world clock on your palmOS device |
| 22:47.48 | mrpull | http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ |
| 22:47.52 | mrpull | google to the rescue |
| 22:48.23 | bonez41 | thanks.... |
| 22:48.32 | bonez41 | 7 hours difference from MST to GMT.. |
| 22:48.39 | *** join/#utah natester (~me@67.50.46.118) |
| 22:48.40 | mrpull | correct. |
| 22:48.45 | mheath | Slackware 10 ran fine on that, but with the 120 MB HDD I only really had room for the base |
| 22:49.00 | mrpull | DSL? |
| 22:49.53 | Maquis | wow! |
| 22:50.14 | Maquis | i reported this php error to byu 3 weeks ago |
| 22:50.28 | Maquis | and got weird responses saying "there is no error... there's nothing wrong" |
| 22:50.41 | Maquis | i told them to send my original email to the developers... |
| 22:50.51 | Maquis | apparently, it did no good |
| 22:51.19 | Maquis | i could fix the problem, and improve their code in < 2 minutes!!! |
| 22:51.29 | sjansen | url? |
| 22:51.37 | Maquis | http://www.byu.edu/ccc/cgi-bin/eyesornopage.php |
| 22:52.08 | Maquis | can't open a file, then 2 messages saying that the argument is not a file-handle resource |
| 22:52.19 | synic | ... php cgi? |
| 22:52.22 | Maquis | they should be checking to ensure that they're getting a valid file back before they do anything else |
| 22:52.36 | sjansen | byu.edu used to run on a VMS box... might still |
| 22:52.52 | sjansen | I don't see the error. |
| 22:53.09 | Maquis | it might be because i'm logged into RY... |
| 22:53.25 | Maquis | but the top half of my screen (below the bar at the top) has 3 errors... |
| 22:53.25 | hans | I think they know I have a beard. |
| 22:53.30 | hans | "BYU CAREER PLACEMENT SERVICES |
| 22:53.30 | brailsmt_ | sjansen: is a byu developer... he is the root of the problem... |
| 22:53.32 | hans | Sorry the password token is given only to those students who agree to abide by the Interviewing Policies, Ethics, and Standards of Behavior." |
| 22:53.50 | sjansen | I got the same... and I have a beard too. |
| 22:54.08 | hans | proof positive |
| 22:54.22 | sjansen | Wow, that's some advanced Web scripting... did they use my optical mouse to scan my face? ... Wait, it's not plugged it! |
| 22:54.24 | hans | people with beards can't view that page. good thing maquis doesn't have a beard |
| 22:54.29 | brailsmt_ | i don't have a beard, but i don't have the password either... |
| 22:54.30 | tensai | no beard and I got the message. maybe because I'm a con artist. |
| 22:54.38 | byronc | I got the same test, but I don't have a beard |
| 22:54.41 | brailsmt_ | but i drink Dr Pepper |
| 22:54.43 | byronc | s@test@text |
| 22:54.45 | hans | tensai: what, you're really a microsoft junky? |
| 22:55.17 | brailsmt_ | q: Whats the difference between a good mormon and a bad mormon? |
| 22:55.25 | brailsmt_ | a: The temperature of their caffeine |
| 22:55.32 | brailsmt_ | -as told by my bishop |
| 22:55.36 | auto_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:58.10 | sjansen | Maquis: Well there it is. Have you taken a taken a screenshot of the error? |
| 22:58.24 | Maquis | take a screenshot of it? |
| 22:58.44 | sjansen | as proof |
| 22:58.54 | Maquis | you think i should send it to them? |
| 22:59.11 | Maquis | perhaps with an explanation of exactly what needs to be done to resolve it? |
| 22:59.11 | mheath | mrpull: DSL requires several hundred MB of space for a HDD install |
| 22:59.16 | Maquis | step-by-step |
| 22:59.37 | mrpull | bummer. |
| 22:59.45 | sjansen | nah, you don't know the actual code of the app |
| 22:59.58 | Maquis | sjansen: you don't even have to know the code of the app to do it... |
| 23:00.13 | Maquis | that's how painful the error is |
| 23:00.53 | sjansen | yes, you do |
| 23:01.02 | sjansen | you don't know why it's trying to write to the file |
| 23:01.02 | Maquis | in what way? |
| 23:01.19 | sjansen | myself, I suspect they don't need to, these being student PHP developers... |
| 23:01.22 | sjansen | but you never know |
| 23:01.30 | Maquis | you can still stick the "if (!file){die} in there... |
| 23:01.40 | Maquis | i mean... if you don't have the file, and you need to use it, you should die |
| 23:01.51 | sjansen | not neccessarily |
| 23:01.57 | sjansen | it may not be critical |
| 23:02.18 | sjansen | just give them the symptoms and steps to reproduce, then let them do their job |
| 23:02.46 | Maquis | then you can stick an if around the sections that usethe file... |
| 23:02.53 | Maquis | sjansen: i did that 3 weeks ago |
| 23:02.56 | Maquis | and they did nothing |
| 23:02.59 | mheath | Hmmm. |
| 23:03.05 | mheath | How much space does NetBSD require? |
| 23:03.14 | emcnabb | off to go eat dinner with Michael Golden |
| 23:03.26 | Maquis | hi emcnabb :) |
| 23:03.56 | emcnabb | hello |
| 23:04.11 | emcnabb | he lives about an hour from where I'm teaching |
| 23:04.19 | Maquis | fun! |
| 23:09.12 | natester | did anyone else get really interested in that Jef Raskin stuff? |
| 23:09.36 | *** join/#utah Maquis (~Maquis@128.187.244.16) |
| 23:10.39 | sjansen | Jef Raskin? |
| 23:10.48 | natester | slashdot? |
| 23:11.14 | *** join/#utah Maquis (~Maquis@128.187.244.16) |
| 23:11.40 | sjansen | ~slashdot |
| 23:15.34 | Goshen | I read slashdot hourly...its an addiction |
| 23:15.53 | Goshen | <----information junkie |
| 23:16.58 | sjansen | <------- former Slashdot addict |
| 23:17.10 | Goshen | Hi, My name is.... |
| 23:17.11 | natester | Goshen: I downloaded THE humane interface and it's like vi |
| 23:17.24 | natester | I think the program is called THE |
| 23:17.41 | Goshen | what is that? |
| 23:18.17 | natester | Jef Raskin Gets $2 Million To Develop RCHI |
| 23:18.21 | natester | under that headline |
| 23:19.28 | Goshen | ahh.... |
| 23:19.37 | Goshen | like vi..lol |
| 23:25.09 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@byu074602wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 23:28.16 | *** part/#utah auto_ (~auto@64.136.200.212) |
| 23:29.06 | mheath | mmm NetBSD looks nice |
| 23:29.17 | *** join/#utah natester_ (~me@67.50.46.118) |
| 23:29.43 | mheath | The entire thing, including a sane development environment, fits in about 200MB...I should be able to get a nice system on my 120 MB HDD |
| 23:32.15 | Jayce^ | </sadist> |
| 23:32.25 | mheath | Jayce^: I've been using this drive for years |
| 23:32.32 | mheath | I have SLackware on there right now. |
| 23:32.41 | mheath | Just looking for something that fits a bit more comfortably |
| 23:32.44 | *** join/#utah alphahawk (~alphahawk@70.56.105.158) |
| 23:36.27 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 23:43.45 | *** join/#utah sheer (~sheer@ool-44c1b550.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:49.57 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@208.186.180.204) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 23:50.29 | hans | wow, he didn't even change the subject |
| 23:52.05 | Newsome | even after sjansen told him about you-poopoo |
| 23:52.47 | Jayce^ | with the exact same question.. |
| 23:53.46 | hans | huh? |
| 23:54.01 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@translate.sento.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 23:54.04 | *** part/#utah fluxCap (~lamontp@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 23:54.13 | hans | oh I must have missed something in the netsplit. |
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| 23:55.37 | *** join/#utah alphahawk (~alphahawk@70.56.105.158) |
| 23:55.37 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@firebat.aros.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 23:55.37 | *** join/#utah erj (~erikrj@207.108.175.218) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 23:57.47 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
