| 00:00.02 | Maquis | some guys in our complex flooded their entire building by doing that (and got the entire complex outside in the snow for about half an hour in the middle of the night) a week ago |
| 00:00.17 | hans | brilliant. don't date them |
| 00:00.28 | sjansen | air conditioning duct and a projector |
| 00:00.32 | peregrine | Maquis: not much. Good to see you. |
| 00:01.04 | Maquis | hans: even if that hadn't been enough to point that out, the fact that they tackled a couple of girls (who were in pajamas and flip flops) and started trying to cover them with snow would've made the connecton |
| 00:01.14 | Maquis | peregrine: nice to have you here again :) |
| 00:01.26 | Maquis | are you in utah this week, or off elsewhere? |
| 00:01.41 | Jayce^ | glad to see they won't be participating in the gene pool anytime soon.. |
| 00:01.46 | peregrine | Here. |
| 00:01.52 | hans | no kidding |
| 00:02.07 | Maquis | peregrine: fun :) |
| 00:02.37 | Maquis | how many gurus are there total? |
| 00:02.37 | peregrine | Maquis: Yea for fun! :) |
| 00:03.10 | peregrine | 7 full time. |
| 00:03.16 | Maquis | hmmm.. |
| 00:03.23 | Maquis | so, i know evan, stuart and goo... |
| 00:03.29 | Maquis | and i met brian at the last uug meeting |
| 00:03.34 | Jayce^ | goober? :-p |
| 00:03.38 | Maquis | and i've seen you and dax here... |
| 00:03.42 | Maquis | so that leaves 1? |
| 00:04.18 | peregrine | His name is Cameron (a.k.a. red). |
| 00:04.30 | Maquis | mmmk |
| 00:05.02 | Maquis | someone should drag him to a uug meeting or something... |
| 00:05.13 | Maquis | :) |
| 00:06.15 | peregrine | brb |
| 00:06.37 | sjansen | good luck, Cam's too hard working |
| 00:06.49 | Maquis | :) |
| 00:08.06 | peregrine | I just remembered, someone was talking about an old notebook with a crappy battery (and that was the reason others did not want it)... |
| 00:08.42 | peregrine | Well, I have had more than one battery rebuilt in the past. There are several places that can do that for you. |
| 00:09.12 | peregrine | It's much cheaper than buying a new one, and the guts are all brand new. They just reuse the casing. |
| 00:13.26 | hans | my bro works at batteries plus. they do "really old ones" |
| 00:13.30 | hans | whatever that means |
| 00:13.41 | Maquis | hmmm |
| 00:14.51 | Maquis | if i've got some input coming into a c program as a char*, and i know it's a hex value, is there a ascii-hex function that will return the number as an int or something? |
| 00:15.08 | Jayce^ | maybe I should take my old dell down there then... might be able to afford to get it a new battery |
| 00:15.08 | Maquis | i'm not seeing it at cppreference.com, and i'm pretty sure that atoi won't do it, right? |
| 00:15.10 | hans | [17:14:18] <Nicholas> laptop batteries have all sorts of circutry built into them that make it difficult to rebuild |
| 00:15.13 | hans | [17:14:51] <Nicholas> and also their litium-ion, which has a flash point of 3500 degrees F if they happen to short out |
| 00:15.29 | Maquis | ack! that's hot! |
| 00:15.37 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (~von@c-67-177-11-46.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:15.47 | Maquis | ~flog vontrapp |
| 00:15.54 | ibot | ACTION hog-ties vontrapp and starts the heavy punishment with a cat-o-nine-tails. |
| 00:15.55 | vontrapp | ~fish Maquis |
| 00:15.59 | ibot | ACTION slaps Maquis around with a large trout |
| 00:15.59 | hans | ~lart vontrapp |
| 00:16.04 | vontrapp | ~puttyslap hans |
| 00:16.08 | ibot | ACTION rolls a large, Guru blue puttybat then whacks hans and Maquis with it |
| 00:16.14 | Maquis | that was a sad lart |
| 00:16.18 | hans | drat. I didn't win any putty |
| 00:16.18 | vontrapp | heehee, two in one |
| 00:16.32 | Maquis | hans: i don't have any either :( |
| 00:16.39 | Maquis | hey! is thta still there??? |
| 00:16.40 | sjansen | Maquis: check out sscanf |
| 00:16.55 | vontrapp | sscanf is pretty cool |
| 00:17.07 | Maquis | sjansen: thanks... because of that, i won't lart you for leaving me in the puttyslap |
| 00:18.41 | hans | http://www.edgewall.com/trac/ This looks pretty slick |
| 00:18.46 | Maquis | ~lart Jayce^ for playing with putty |
| 00:18.48 | hans | ~lart commander keen |
| 00:18.56 | hans | heh |
| 00:19.15 | Jayce^ | wow, commander keen.. all sorts of flashbacks there |
| 00:19.28 | Maquis | does anybody want to present at the UUG Newbies Meeting on thursday???? |
| 00:19.30 | Maquis | please???? |
| 00:19.37 | Maquis | pretty please??? |
| 00:19.53 | hans | Maquis: you could take apart a lithium ion battery and see what 3500 F feels like |
| 00:20.02 | hans | call it a learning experience. good for newbies |
| 00:20.23 | Maquis | hans: ummm |
| 00:20.34 | Maquis | how much will it teach them about how to use linux? |
| 00:21.04 | vontrapp | it would teach them how not to use their linux powered laptop's battery |
| 00:21.07 | hans | Maquis: you can tie anything in. I learned that from sunday school teachers. |
| 00:21.30 | Maquis | hans: at first, i thought you were still referring to the battery lesson... |
| 00:21.54 | Maquis | yeah... one of my sunday school teachers tied in his job at a juvie jail... |
| 00:21.57 | Maquis | it was interesting |
| 00:21.57 | hans | see, here it says that this prophet ate fish on this day so that means fish is like holy or something, and since this one variety of fish can live for three hours outside of water (that's like three days, don't you see) |
| 00:22.14 | Maquis | haha.... |
| 00:22.30 | Maquis | gotta love sunday school teachers |
| 00:22.32 | Maquis | :) |
| 00:25.23 | vontrapp | ok, i'm gonna set up a website for a business of my roommate's starting |
| 00:25.40 | vontrapp | to start, i need hosting space and dns |
| 00:25.54 | vontrapp | i was thinking probably linnode |
| 00:26.40 | hans | Maquis: I was. you can tie battery explosions into linux. |
| 00:27.21 | Maquis | hans: i was referring to your comment about sunday school teachers... |
| 00:27.56 | hans | oh, the fish. well, if fish ingested lithium... |
| 00:28.19 | Maquis | :) |
| 00:30.22 | *** join/#utah usynic (~synic@c-67-172-242-219.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:31.56 | Maquis | anyway, back to my original question: does anybody want to give a 2-3 minute presentation thursday night? |
| 00:32.07 | Maquis | we have a small list of topics that you can choose from... |
| 00:32.08 | Maquis | :) |
| 00:32.11 | Maquis | please :) |
| 00:33.30 | Maquis | if we don't get sign-ups soon, i may have to make an executive decision that all gurus who are not out of town, and do not bring me putty are required to present... |
| 00:33.31 | vontrapp | keen dies again |
| 00:33.37 | Maquis | :) |
| 00:34.35 | vontrapp | Maquis: i'll present on commander keen, i can show everyone where the 7 extra lives are in the first level |
| 00:34.46 | Maquis | vontrapp: that doesn't work |
| 00:35.00 | Maquis | you're welcome to present on one of the pre-approved topics, though |
| 00:35.04 | vontrapp | and even how to run keen in linux |
| 00:35.25 | Maquis | we need someone to present on: |
| 00:35.31 | Maquis | 1) KDE/Gnome |
| 00:35.41 | vontrapp | not it |
| 00:36.08 | Maquis | sjansen: well... goo's not required, so i can just have him beat the rest of you up :) |
| 00:36.30 | sjansen | uh huh...... |
| 00:36.52 | *** join/#utah usynic (~synic@c-67-172-242-219.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:36.58 | Maquis | i could potentially offer evan a pardon in exchange for him helping goo with you... |
| 00:37.08 | Maquis | and then revoke the pardon afterwards... |
| 00:37.10 | vontrapp | µsynic is back! |
| 00:37.23 | vontrapp | does he get wet? or does the water get him? |
| 00:37.40 | Maquis | ??? |
| 00:38.11 | usynic | lol |
| 00:38.13 | vontrapp | µ as in micro |
| 00:38.56 | usynic | hrmm. |
| 00:39.00 | usynic | so I tried xfce4.2 |
| 00:39.07 | usynic | but it messed all my gnome settings up |
| 00:39.29 | usynic | I don't suppose any of you might know how to repair this? |
| 00:39.52 | Maquis | don't use gnome :) |
| 00:40.13 | usynic | but gnome is awesome :P |
| 00:41.47 | vontrapp | anyway, how much is linnode? are there different prices for different amounts of space/bandwidth? |
| 00:42.01 | usynic | Maquis, I'm prepared :) |
| 00:42.05 | Maquis | sscanf can't read in binary numbers, can it? |
| 00:42.16 | Maquis | usynic: evilwm :) |
| 00:42.17 | vontrapp | sure it can, i think |
| 00:42.33 | usynic | pfft. |
| 00:42.38 | usynic | that's just like... your opinion man! |
| 00:42.40 | usynic | er... woman! |
| 00:42.40 | vontrapp | usynic: please, there are ladies present |
| 00:42.41 | Maquis | vontrapp: what do you use then? maybe i'm blind... |
| 00:42.55 | Maquis | vontrapp: am i plural? |
| 00:43.01 | vontrapp | %b or something |
| 00:43.05 | Maquis | or is there another that i don't know about? |
| 00:43.34 | Maquis | vontrapp: thanks :) i'll try that |
| 00:44.04 | usynic | Maquis, but I _like_ all the useless features! |
| 00:44.20 | Maquis | usynic: well, that's your problem... |
| 00:44.32 | hans | Maquis: did you ever give ion a try? |
| 00:44.36 | Maquis | useless features are what got messed up... |
| 00:44.46 | Maquis | hans: no... /me likes evil too much :) |
| 00:45.08 | hans | proof you're not a newbie. you're entrenched in your wm/desktop choice. |
| 00:45.16 | Maquis | :) |
| 00:45.23 | hans | like poor von who got addicted to icewm before his mission |
| 00:45.28 | Maquis | i spent a little time wm-hopping... |
| 00:45.32 | hans | and is missing out on the beauty of fvwm. ;-) |
| 00:45.43 | Maquis | but nothing quite caught on like evil :) |
| 00:46.11 | vontrapp | hans: first you say it's all about wmaker, now this fvwm, you're so wishy-washy |
| 00:46.30 | hans | no, not wishy washy. progressive |
| 00:46.32 | usynic | then I started missing a taskbar. |
| 00:46.42 | sjansen | All hail Metacity! |
| 00:46.49 | sjansen | ~hail metacity |
| 00:46.52 | ibot | ACTION bows down to metacity and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 00:46.52 | usynic | so, gnome is my hero |
| 00:46.53 | usynic | or was before I broke it. |
| 00:46.53 | hans | and i find it fascinating that my idea of progressive usually means further back in time (at least to project start) |
| 00:47.48 | hans | fvwm with gnome is really a loving relationship. fvwm configured in a simple way, never touch the config, and get all the gnome panel goodies |
| 00:47.51 | sjansen | taskbar is a much better use of screen space than gkrellm |
| 00:47.55 | vontrapp | i tried fvwm once, if you could call it a try. |
| 00:48.12 | vontrapp | the defaults were too ugly and painful |
| 00:48.19 | vontrapp | and i never bothered to configure it |
| 00:48.28 | usynic | in fluxbox without the taskbar, I would get into a sort of alt+tab hell |
| 00:49.33 | vontrapp | hehe, speaking of alt+tab hell, that's one thing that keeps killing poor keen, alt+tab and arow keys |
| 00:49.43 | vontrapp | it's hard to keep him alive when the workspace changes |
| 00:49.57 | hans | i use alt+tab much less these days. I think it has to do with screen and dual monitors. screen because I don't need to switch windows now and dual monitors because even if alt+tab worked the way I think it should in whatever wm I'm using that day, It'd still take forever to switch between all the windows |
| 00:51.00 | vontrapp | er, alt+ctrl, rather |
| 01:10.16 | peregrine | Maquis: What would one get if they were to present one of the newbie topics, eh? |
| 01:11.30 | sjansen | one ... they? |
| 01:13.05 | sjansen | If one is going to speak of oneself as one, than one must be sure to use grammar correctly or one opens oneself to criticism for being both pedantic and foolish. |
| 01:13.09 | peregrine | Or possibly redundant? |
| 01:13.36 | sjansen | peregrine: Kindly remove your hands from one's throat. |
| 01:13.51 | peregrine | ~throttle sjansen |
| 01:15.44 | sjansen | ibot, throttle $who is <action> gently removes her foot from the pedal, gradually throttling $who |
| 01:15.45 | ibot | sjansen: okay |
| 01:15.50 | sjansen | ~throttle peregrine |
| 01:15.52 | ibot | ACTION gently removes her foot from the pedal, gradually throttling peregrine |
| 01:20.14 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The source for OSS focused communication in Utah. Check out plug.org, uug.byu.edu, sllug.org, etc. |
| 01:21.00 | *** topic/#utah by peregrine -> The source for OSS focused communication in Utah. Check out sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, etc. |
| 01:24.57 | sjansen | ~curse SUSE |
| 01:25.00 | ibot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, SUSE ! |
| 01:25.01 | Maquis | peregrine: if you're willing to prsent, you'd have my eternal gratitude :) |
| 01:26.02 | Maquis | s/prsent/present |
| 01:28.19 | sjansen | ~curse SUSE's apache configuration |
| 01:28.22 | ibot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, SUSE's apache configuration ! |
| 01:28.49 | peregrine | Maquis: Well, I do not currently have plans for Thursday beyond sitting at home coding and/or playing something...but that would be quite a drive. |
| 01:30.56 | *** join/#utah usynic (~synic@c-67-172-242-219.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:32.16 | Maquis | peregrine: yeah... i understand.. |
| 01:33.03 | Maquis | sjansen is the only guru we get on a regular basis, since he's the only one that comes down here every day... |
| 01:33.26 | Maquis | but we do have the coolest lug in utah... :) |
| 01:34.07 | usynic | [18:28:57] tail: what is synonyms for "can be" ? i use it very often and this starting to bother me. for example "this can be defined as" "that can be used as" and so on |
| 01:34.50 | usynic | help me out here :) |
| 01:35.06 | sjansen | might be |
| 01:35.10 | sjansen | should never be |
| 01:35.13 | sjansen | occasionally is |
| 01:35.17 | sjansen | has been known to |
| 01:35.23 | sjansen | ought not, but does |
| 01:35.37 | sjansen | flippin' might |
| 01:35.39 | usynic | I dig that last one :P |
| 01:35.58 | sjansen | () <-- empty string |
| 01:36.00 | sjansen | is |
| 01:36.03 | sjansen | was |
| 01:36.07 | sjansen | will someday |
| 01:36.47 | sjansen | *burp* <-- always with the stars |
| 01:36.53 | usynic | brb. |
| 01:41.32 | Maquis | sjansen: your burp drove him off!!! |
| 01:41.55 | Maquis | can we get some fresh air in here please? |
| 01:42.15 | *** join/#utah usynic (~synic@c-67-172-242-219.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:42.44 | sjansen | usynic: Your presence is like a breath of fresh air. |
| 01:42.58 | Maquis | ~lart sjansen |
| 01:43.08 | usynic | sjansen, is it now? |
| 01:44.01 | Maquis | usynic: i would say that sjansen is in a better place after that axe got him... but my guess is that he went the other way |
| 01:45.21 | Maquis | sjansen: what are you doing still here... aren't you dead yet? |
| 01:46.53 | peregrine | I think he's been watching too many hokey moo-vies. |
| 01:47.09 | peregrine | This death scene is far too drawn out. :) |
| 01:47.35 | Maquis | peregrine: well, at least it's (hopefully) going to be shorter than hamlet |
| 01:48.18 | vontrapp | putty is enjoyable :) |
| 01:48.24 | peregrine | Maquis: Is it possible to have a longer death scene than that? |
| 01:48.47 | sjansen | peregrine: yes, play it at half speed |
| 01:49.32 | Maquis | ibot hamlet $who is <action> forces $who to sit through the insanely long, 4 hour version of hamlet, watching hamlet spit all over the camera.... |
| 01:49.34 | ibot | Maquis: okay |
| 01:49.39 | Maquis | ~hamlet sjansen |
| 01:49.41 | ibot | ACTION forces sjansen to sit through the insanely long, 4 hour version of hamlet, watching hamlet spit all over the camera.... |
| 01:49.53 | sjansen | been there, done that |
| 01:50.05 | Maquis | yeah.. but this time, no laptop |
| 01:50.14 | sjansen | noooooooooooooooooooooooo! |
| 01:50.34 | mheath | ~mheath |
| 01:50.35 | ibot | i guess mheath is a cool guy who hasn't set any world records :) |
| 01:50.50 | Maquis | ~maquis |
| 01:50.51 | ibot | from memory, maquis is a poker, or not stupid |
| 01:51.02 | mheath | ibot: your grammer is bad. "I" should be capitalized. |
| 01:51.03 | ibot | okay, mheath |
| 01:51.06 | peregrine | ~peregrine |
| 01:51.07 | ibot | from memory, peregrine is a great fool of a Took, or <action> coughs loudly |
| 01:51.16 | mheath | Ah oh. |
| 01:51.20 | peregrine | oh, ha ha |
| 01:51.22 | mheath | Did I just give it a definition? |
| 01:51.29 | vontrapp | ~your grammer |
| 01:51.30 | ibot | [your grammer] bad. "I" should be capitalized. |
| 01:52.09 | sjansen | ibot, no peregrine is a great fool of a Took |
| 01:52.10 | ibot | sjansen: okay |
| 01:52.28 | Maquis | ~sjansen |
| 01:52.29 | ibot | from memory, sjansen is one hoopey frood who really knows where his towel |
| 01:52.36 | sjansen | is |
| 01:52.42 | mheath | ibot, no your grammer is nothing |
| 01:52.43 | ibot | mheath: okay |
| 01:52.51 | mheath | ~your grammer |
| 01:52.52 | ibot | rumour has it, your grammer is nothing |
| 01:52.53 | sjansen | ibot, no sjansen is one hoopey frood who really knows where his towel is |
| 01:52.55 | ibot | okay, sjansen |
| 01:53.56 | peregrine | ibot, no peregrine speaks many words...all without saying anything |
| 01:54.24 | Maquis | ibot no, peregrine is one who speaks many words, all without saying anything |
| 01:54.25 | ibot | Maquis: okay |
| 01:54.32 | Maquis | peregrine: you have to have an 'is' in there :) |
| 01:54.39 | Maquis | ~peregrine |
| 01:54.40 | ibot | it has been said that peregrine is one who speaks many words, all without saying anything |
| 01:55.03 | Maquis | hans: i want brigham back... |
| 01:55.30 | sjansen | ibot, no Maquis are Maquis |
| 01:55.32 | ibot | sjansen: okay |
| 01:55.36 | sjansen | Maquis: is or are |
| 01:55.49 | Maquis | ~maquis |
| 01:55.50 | ibot | you are probably Maquis |
| 01:56.00 | sjansen | ~maquis |
| 01:56.01 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, maquis is Maquis |
| 01:56.07 | Maquis | haha |
| 01:56.34 | mheath | just got back from Applebees |
| 02:01.59 | LeviHome | Mmm, food. |
| 02:03.34 | Maquis | food... :) |
| 02:04.35 | Maquis | hmmm |
| 02:06.27 | peregrine | Pizza! |
| 02:06.41 | Maquis | yummy! |
| 02:10.05 | Maquis | hey! |
| 02:10.22 | Maquis | this worked before, but even when i check out working versions from my repository, it won't work :(P |
| 02:13.11 | Maquis | what in the world??? |
| 02:13.27 | Maquis | how did the revisions in my repository get messed up? |
| 02:16.06 | *** join/#utah beandog (~steve@c-67-172-239-181.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:17.25 | peregrine | ibot, no peregrine is fluxing the flux capacitor |
| 02:17.26 | ibot | peregrine: okay |
| 02:17.36 | peregrine | ~peregrine |
| 02:17.37 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, peregrine is fluxing the flux capacitor |
| 02:19.11 | Maquis | ~lart svn |
| 02:19.24 | Maquis | ~whimper |
| 02:19.25 | ibot | ACTION huddles in the corner, whimpering softly. |
| 02:25.49 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 02:28.32 | sjansen | Maquis: perhaps the environment it's running in has changed |
| 02:29.27 | Maquis | sjansen: i don't think so |
| 02:29.28 | Maquis | :( |
| 02:30.38 | Maquis | sjansen: i tried it on my desktop to see if maybe it would work there, but it won't... |
| 02:42.35 | *** join/#utah usynic (~synic@c-67-172-242-219.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:50.33 | sjansen | ~congratulate SUSE on finally patching PHP4 |
| 02:50.35 | ibot | ACTION congratulates SUSE on finally patching PHP4 on being a new owner of a $500 brick. |
| 02:51.01 | usynic | what is that supposed to mean? |
| 02:51.35 | tene | I think it's a reference to the mac mini |
| 02:51.43 | tene | ~congratulate usynic |
| 02:51.45 | ibot | ACTION congratulates usynic on being a new owner of a $500 brick. |
| 02:51.54 | tene | yeah, it's specific, not random |
| 02:52.03 | usynic | ah. |
| 02:52.12 | sjansen | actually, the comment existed before the mini |
| 02:52.24 | *** join/#utah macnewbol1 (~mac@newbold.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 02:52.36 | tene | oh? |
| 02:52.49 | tene | That's just the most recent $500 thing I've heard of |
| 02:53.14 | sjansen | my bet is that it only meant something once long ago |
| 02:53.28 | sjansen | probably time to teach ibot something new |
| 02:53.50 | brailsmt | anyone here used berlios? they have svn repos... |
| 02:54.01 | brailsmt | any word on when sf.net will get svn repos? |
| 02:57.54 | sjansen | when pigs fly? |
| 02:59.10 | brailsmt | they sure are dragging their feet aren't they? |
| 02:59.26 | brailsmt | svn1.0 has been out for nearly a year now... |
| 03:09.49 | sjansen | what did you show the auto? |
| 03:10.08 | LeviHome | sjansen: That's a rather obtuse way to parse my sentence. |
| 03:10.25 | LeviHome | I did sit in some cool cars, so I guess you could say I showed them my rear. |
| 03:11.12 | LeviHome | The new vette is nice, but it feels huge. |
| 03:11.58 | sjansen | LeviHome: I admit I'm not very cute anymore, but you don't have to call me obtuse. |
| 03:12.06 | LeviHome | The Mini convertibles are fun. |
| 03:13.30 | sjansen | It was... odd. |
| 03:15.54 | LeviHome | Kind of odd with the top up, but you'd want it down as much as possible. |
| 03:16.02 | brailsmt | sjansen: and you are never right either... |
| 03:17.05 | sjansen | bah! |
| 03:17.58 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:20.33 | LeviHome | The new Mustang is interesting. |
| 03:20.39 | LeviHome | The interior is very retro. |
| 03:24.06 | brailsmt | sjansen: though your conversations are often quite orthogonal to the rest of reality... |
| 03:37.14 | Maquis | my computer is stupid and deserves a good beatin... |
| 03:37.27 | sjansen | ~beat Maquis and her computer |
| 03:37.29 | ibot | ACTION beats Maquis and her computer with a large stick. |
| 03:37.37 | Maquis | hey! |
| 03:37.48 | Maquis | no fair! |
| 03:38.15 | sjansen | Life is suffering, Maquis. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something. |
| 03:38.53 | Maquis | sjansen: well... for cs majors at least, that's true :) |
| 03:39.30 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-52.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:42.05 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@209.197.11.63) |
| 03:52.00 | *** part/#utah bucky (~bucky@67-50-102-213.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 04:00.39 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-52.client.comcast.net) |
| 04:01.22 | *** part/#utah spig (~spig_@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:04.26 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 04:05.27 | Maquis | ~lart sjansen for existing |
| 04:06.00 | hans | wow, $12 and you have to drive your own transportation around |
| 04:06.33 | peregrine | hans: What? |
| 04:06.43 | hans | job posted to sllug job announce |
| 04:06.50 | hans | tensai: ping |
| 04:07.22 | Maquis | hans: what's the job? |
| 04:07.42 | tensai | hans: pong |
| 04:07.45 | hans | an isp needs an on-site tech support guy or something |
| 04:07.50 | beandog | entry level ISP towel boy |
| 04:07.51 | Maquis | hmmm |
| 04:07.51 | hans | tensai: still interested in some cards? |
| 04:08.00 | Maquis | ok... that would be a lot of driving, i suppose |
| 04:08.10 | hans | towel boy is a good description. :) |
| 04:08.19 | peregrine | Oo, oo...the Queen of Hearts. |
| 04:08.41 | beandog | Woo hoo! |
| 04:08.42 | tensai | hans: I haven't heard back from my boss yet. apparently he's "busy" earning "money" for the company. |
| 04:08.49 | Maquis | hans: hey... there are plenty of us that can't be too picky about jobs yet :( |
| 04:08.58 | tensai | you're wanting to buy them soon I take it? |
| 04:09.11 | hans | soon as in whenever I can get ahold of von. :) |
| 04:09.12 | Maquis | peregrine: ???? |
| 04:09.19 | hans | likely tomorrow or tomorrow eve |
| 04:09.39 | tensai | well, don't wait for me. I'll jabber my boss tomorrow and see what he says. |
| 04:09.42 | hans | all I need to know at the moment is whether to check with you before I order |
| 04:10.07 | Maquis | hans: does that email list get many internship opps, or is it mostly full-time positions? (ie, summer jobs?) |
| 04:10.23 | hans | some of everything |
| 04:10.30 | Maquis | hmmm... |
| 04:10.36 | tensai | hans: do check with me, please but I'm a little doubtful |
| 04:12.23 | peregrine | Maquis: ???? |
| 04:12.45 | Maquis | peregrine: i was curious about the queen of hearts comment |
| 04:12.54 | peregrine | Cards. |
| 04:13.01 | Maquis | yes... i know that it's a card... |
| 04:13.05 | Maquis | what are you playing? |
| 04:13.29 | peregrine | hans said "still interested in some cards?"...so I called one. |
| 04:13.56 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 04:14.29 | beandog | Ok im outta |
| 04:14.30 | beandog | nite all |
| 04:14.38 | Maquis | oh |
| 04:14.43 | Maquis | i get it now :) |
| 04:15.44 | sjansen | I gues peregrine is determined to prove that his sense of humor is as warped as mine. |
| 04:16.58 | Maquis | maybe peregrine won't pick on me as much as sjansen does... |
| 04:16.59 | Maquis | :) |
| 04:19.51 | tensai | ~smash Maquis |
| 04:19.53 | ibot | ACTION flings an anvil in Maquis's general direction |
| 04:19.53 | xbmodder | ?!? |
| 04:19.57 | xbmodder | ~lart tensai so he can't smash Maquis |
| 04:20.26 | tensai | ~crush xbmodder for attempting to disrupt tensai's smashing |
| 04:20.28 | ibot | ACTION crushes xbmodder for attempting to disrupt tensai's smashing with a full height scsi disk |
| 04:20.59 | xbmodder | ~murder tensai for conspiracy to crush xbmodder |
| 04:21.02 | ibot | ACTION shoots tensai for conspiracy to crush xbmodder in his sleep |
| 04:21.18 | xbmodder | any idea who would hire a 14 year old computer guy? |
| 04:21.52 | xbmodder | minimal wage ^^^ i think... |
| 04:23.49 | sjansen | Computer job? Don't know. |
| 04:24.03 | xbmodder | :( |
| 04:24.09 | xbmodder | anything you want done? |
| 04:24.16 | sjansen | When I was about that age graduated from paper route to gas station. |
| 04:24.32 | xbmodder | i can do stuff... like administer servers :) |
| 04:24.33 | sjansen | But I'd recommend going another route: try starting your own business. |
| 04:24.36 | xbmodder | :( |
| 04:24.39 | xbmodder | i tried that |
| 04:24.59 | sjansen | Might be hard at first, but the experience long term'll take you a long way. |
| 04:25.14 | xbmodder | nobody wants to trust someone who is more virgin (as in innocent...), younger, smarter, charges cheaper than the 'professinals' |
| 04:25.14 | sjansen | Farther than working in a gas station. |
| 04:25.18 | xbmodder | haha |
| 04:25.21 | Maquis | ibot protects me? |
| 04:25.29 | xbmodder | Maquis, ? |
| 04:26.21 | Maquis | xbmodder: thanks :) |
| 04:26.29 | xbmodder | welcome, np... |
| 04:26.47 | xbmodder | sjansen, how the hell do i convince people that i can do my job... |
| 04:26.51 | sjansen | xbmodder: How're your coding skillz? |
| 04:27.02 | sjansen | Hide behind a Web interface. |
| 04:27.05 | xbmodder | not the best, why do you ask? |
| 04:27.25 | xbmodder | yeah, nobody goes to my site... :( |
| 04:27.26 | sjansen | Find a business that can be done entirely electronically. Then don't mention your age. |
| 04:27.31 | xbmodder | ok |
| 04:27.35 | xbmodder | i will try |
| 04:27.41 | xbmodder | any ideas |
| 04:28.03 | sjansen | Go for a niche. Palm software, for example. |
| 04:28.11 | xbmodder | grr :( |
| 04:28.33 | sjansen | Watch for ideas. |
| 04:28.55 | xbmodder | all the things i'm good at are administration based... like server maintence |
| 04:29.08 | Maquis | if all else fails, tons of companies will pay someone to set up a website for them... |
| 04:29.17 | xbmodder | haha |
| 04:29.18 | xbmodder | i hope |
| 04:29.32 | Maquis | particularly if you can make it so that they have a form that they can administer it from |
| 04:29.52 | xbmodder | if i started a hosting business do you think most people would pay 30-40 dollars a month for a host? |
| 04:30.05 | xbmodder | and 20 dollars for an ISP |
| 04:30.12 | sjansen | xbmodder: Depends entirely on what services you provide. |
| 04:30.47 | Maquis | yay for quarters!!! |
| 04:30.50 | xbmodder | mysql, ssh, rsync backups (personal data), about 5 gigs of space, what else can i think of.... |
| 04:31.01 | sjansen | Just don't go head to head with Yahoo! or eBay. |
| 04:31.24 | xbmodder | you mean in court? |
| 04:31.34 | sjansen | I also wouldn't go for the other end of the spectrum, like virtual servers. |
| 04:31.42 | sjansen | No, in competition. |
| 04:31.55 | sjansen | Decide what market to target, and differentiate yourself. |
| 04:32.18 | xbmodder | tell me if this is good from a technical stand point: |
| 04:33.31 | xbmodder | one main server. one phone line. each phone line has 5 IPs. each phone line has 3 modems connected to it. two ethernet cables for two modems. one for remote admin |
| 04:33.48 | xbmodder | each phone line is 20 dollars. |
| 04:34.03 | xbmodder | each modem is 100 dollars. you get one free with signing up |
| 04:34.16 | xbmodder | and 60 dollars a month |
| 04:34.26 | xbmodder | i can easily supply servers... |
| 04:34.46 | xbmodder | i am planning to charge each customer 30 dollars a month |
| 04:34.49 | xbmodder | make sense eh? |
| 04:34.59 | xbmodder | no bandwidth limits |
| 04:34.59 | sjansen | I wouldn't go into the hosting business. There's already people that can do it cheaper. |
| 04:35.03 | xbmodder | damn it |
| 04:35.08 | xbmodder | not just hosting.... |
| 04:35.31 | xbmodder | backups, shells, databases |
| 04:35.33 | xbmodder | etc... |
| 04:35.39 | xbmodder | basically a computer :) |
| 04:35.51 | xbmodder | free computers for everyone |
| 04:35.56 | xbmodder | bbiaf |
| 04:37.04 | xbmodder | back! |
| 04:37.12 | xbmodder | would you pay for that? |
| 04:37.25 | sjansen | Are you familiar with linode? |
| 04:37.34 | xbmodder | no, but i can learn |
| 04:37.48 | tene | linode is a hosting company |
| 04:37.56 | sjansen | $20/month with redudant power, redudant connections, very dedicate and skilled full-time admin |
| 04:37.58 | xbmodder | yes |
| 04:37.59 | tene | a virtual linux server, completely open for you to play with |
| 04:38.07 | xbmodder | uhh god... |
| 04:38.08 | xbmodder | :( |
| 04:38.15 | sjansen | yeah |
| 04:38.51 | sjansen | That's why I said to avoid the two extremes. There's already people that own the site-in-a-box and your-own-server market. |
| 04:39.11 | xbmodder | how about instant backup... or nearly instant |
| 04:39.21 | xbmodder | tensai, be a fscking man! |
| 04:39.35 | xbmodder | i can set you up a virtual server if you want |
| 04:39.42 | xbmodder | tensai, |
| 04:39.54 | sjansen | backups are one area that I think has real potential |
| 04:40.00 | xbmodder | ok :) |
| 04:40.13 | Maquis | how are you planning on advertising? |
| 04:40.15 | sjansen | But how would you market it so that you don't have to go onsite? |
| 04:40.17 | xbmodder | data destruction... i have been looking at that for a long time. |
| 04:40.33 | xbmodder | Maquis, i can't afford anything but word o' mouth |
| 04:40.41 | sjansen | Something as simple as a bunch of disk for off-site backups. |
| 04:40.46 | xbmodder | thats why i am doing it in a public IRC chat room |
| 04:40.50 | xbmodder | just kidding |
| 04:40.53 | Maquis | you're going to keep an eye out for small companies that are starting out in your area... |
| 04:40.58 | xbmodder | well i would make them a scrip |
| 04:40.59 | xbmodder | tt |
| 04:41.01 | Maquis | (or wherever)... |
| 04:41.09 | Maquis | and try to work with them... |
| 04:41.21 | Maquis | but you'll have to be really good to avoid the spam pile |
| 04:41.21 | xbmodder | and say run that every night :) |
| 04:41.22 | sjansen | Better would be a Web interface or secure SAMBA connection. |
| 04:41.55 | xbmodder | i can write an amazing CLI program |
| 04:41.59 | Maquis | if you could set it up with something like svn, that'd be sweet |
| 04:42.07 | xbmodder | SVN for backups |
| 04:42.14 | Maquis | SVN for anything... |
| 04:42.29 | sjansen | That's another idea I've had. |
| 04:42.40 | Maquis | you could have a script that adds any new files in the directory that they're backing up |
| 04:42.43 | xbmodder | your going to backup my 20MB Quickbooks files with SVN |
| 04:42.46 | sjansen | But there's hosted SVN services already. |
| 04:42.48 | Maquis | and does an svn delete on any files that were deleted |
| 04:43.06 | xbmodder | why don't we start a mini-business in #utah eh? |
| 04:43.08 | sjansen | Although there's more chance of competing because it's small. |
| 04:43.11 | Maquis | and then if they delete anything stupid, (or change a file taht they didn't mean to), you'll be their hero |
| 04:43.15 | xbmodder | you guysseem really smart |
| 04:43.33 | xbmodder | you guys seem really smart, i think it would be easy to start a business up with you guys |
| 04:43.41 | sjansen | Too busy. |
| 04:43.44 | xbmodder | :( |
| 04:44.00 | Maquis | sjansen: i think if you work with small companies that don't already have a tech crew, and you explain it really carefully, it could be possible |
| 04:44.12 | sjansen | Me too. |
| 04:44.27 | Maquis | the current hosted SVN services are small enough that most small companies without tech crews have probably never heard of them |
| 04:44.34 | Maquis | in fact, they've probably never even heard of svn |
| 04:44.43 | xbmodder | hmm, i have an idea. one touch linux routers |
| 04:44.44 | xbmodder | :) |
| 04:44.54 | xbmodder | plug-n'-play :) |
| 04:45.17 | xbmodder | that would be cool |
| 04:45.25 | Maquis | this summer, i was surprised when my boss came and asked me about GPG... he was one of the head guys in a tech company, but they didn't do much oss, so he'd never heard of it |
| 04:45.41 | xbmodder | wow |
| 04:46.19 | Maquis | yeah... you should go for it... |
| 04:47.19 | xbmodder | do you think buzz words like 'AES-768 encrypted backups over a encrypted rsync connection Optional HTTP tunneling if you would like bypass a firewall.' |
| 04:47.30 | xbmodder | data destruction |
| 04:47.56 | xbmodder | they send me a hard drive (geeks with pr0n) i nuke it. send it back. good idea/bad idea? |
| 04:48.23 | Maquis | i'd say that data destruction sounds riskier |
| 04:48.23 | sjansen | You'd have to be in a pretty big market for it to work. |
| 04:48.28 | xbmodder | hahaha |
| 04:48.34 | xbmodder | lotsa husbands |
| 04:48.42 | sjansen | And you'd probably have to pickup. |
| 04:48.46 | Maquis | i mean, what if they send you a hard drive, tell you to delete it, and then they want it back? |
| 04:49.05 | sjansen | What's to stop people going at it with a hammer themselves? |
| 04:49.09 | xbmodder | thats why i need a lawyer |
| 04:49.09 | Maquis | or what if they send it to you because it has confidential information, and then somehow that information gets out (through a different channel, but you can't prove that) |
| 04:49.19 | xbmodder | thats why i need a lawyer < |
| 04:49.26 | Maquis | lawyers are expensive |
| 04:49.42 | xbmodder | hmm... is there a law school in BYU? |
| 04:49.48 | emcnabb | ~lart sjansen |
| 04:49.53 | Maquis | emcnabb: sup yo? |
| 04:49.57 | emcnabb | xbmodder, yeah, it's a good one too |
| 04:50.03 | emcnabb | hello Maquis |
| 04:50.03 | xbmodder | i could prolly make a good policy... i hope :) |
| 04:50.06 | xbmodder | emcnabb, thanks :) |
| 04:50.07 | peregrine | Maquis: I am going to go for now. I want to upgrade my distro. C ya later. |
| 04:50.09 | emcnabb | haha |
| 04:50.12 | xbmodder | emcnabb, sup |
| 04:50.17 | emcnabb | not much |
| 04:50.17 | Maquis | peregrine: later :) |
| 04:50.20 | xbmodder | cool :) |
| 04:50.22 | emcnabb | just at work still |
| 04:50.27 | Maquis | emcnabb: why??? |
| 04:50.28 | emcnabb | along with all the other gurus |
| 04:50.32 | emcnabb | deadlines |
| 04:50.32 | Maquis | it's a holiday! |
| 04:50.34 | xbmodder | that sucks :( |
| 04:50.35 | Maquis | for? |
| 04:50.40 | Maquis | what deadlines? |
| 04:50.41 | emcnabb | not for us :-) |
| 04:50.48 | emcnabb | working on SELinux stuff |
| 04:50.52 | Maquis | cool! |
| 04:51.57 | xbmodder | in my many months of running linux servers hacked once. and found out/recovered in about 20 minutes |
| 04:52.08 | xbmodder | after the hack |
| 04:52.12 | *** join/#utah macnewbol1 (~mac@newbold.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:52.16 | *** part/#utah peregrine (~lamontp@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 04:52.25 | xbmodder | and i run one of the most insecure servers out there |
| 04:53.10 | xbmodder | data destruction and backup/encryption that stuff |
| 04:53.18 | xbmodder | good ideas eh? |
| 04:56.51 | xbmodder | ? |
| 04:57.17 | sjansen | maybe |
| 04:57.35 | sjansen | How will you convince people you need their service? |
| 04:57.44 | Maquis | s/you/they |
| 04:57.49 | Maquis | s/their/your |
| 04:58.12 | sjansen | heh, yeah |
| 04:58.34 | xbmodder | telling husbands that there wife can see everything they do on the compy until 2AM with a simple 20 dollar program |
| 04:58.40 | Maquis | sjansen: don't worry... i can read your mind... |
| 04:58.41 | xbmodder | vice-versa |
| 04:58.43 | xbmodder | haha |
| 04:59.37 | sjansen | yeah, but there's already spam and pop-ups out there telling them that and offering to sell software to fix the problem |
| 04:59.46 | xbmodder | yes... grr... |
| 04:59.54 | xbmodder | how about vital data |
| 04:59.55 | sjansen | without shipping off a hard drive |
| 05:00.09 | xbmodder | i can say i am complying with DoD spec... |
| 05:00.10 | xbmodder | :)O |
| 05:00.21 | xbmodder | people like DoD... i think... eh? |
| 05:00.30 | Maquis | because naturally, the spouse won't notice that the hard drive disappears for a week |
| 05:00.48 | tene | of course. Women don't know anything abotu computers. |
| 05:00.54 | Maquis | ~lart tene |
| 05:00.58 | xbmodder | hahaha |
| 05:01.13 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 05:01.20 | emcnabb | hello findlay |
| 05:01.27 | xbmodder | honey, the computer is broken i sent it to some guy half way accross the united states to delete some bad files |
| 05:01.32 | findlay | hello emcnabb |
| 05:01.43 | sjansen | Anoter problem with data destruction: legal requirements like Sarbanes-Oxley and that medical one. |
| 05:01.55 | sjansen | You don't want to get messed up in that. |
| 05:02.10 | xbmodder | i am a service |
| 05:02.26 | sjansen | and could be held liable if not careful |
| 05:02.50 | xbmodder | i can gaurantee you if i become large, the FBI/NSA/CIA etc... will contact me |
| 05:03.05 | xbmodder | telling me to black box my system |
| 05:03.58 | sjansen | "Alright, I've found the source code for the thing and I've determined that they are gimps." -- my boss, about 30 seconds ago |
| 05:04.06 | Maquis | sjansen: HIPAA |
| 05:04.24 | Maquis | sjansen: source code for? |
| 05:04.25 | xbmodder | hahaha |
| 05:04.41 | xbmodder | Maquis, an undisclosed confidential project of course... |
| 05:04.42 | sjansen | YaST2 |
| 05:04.46 | xbmodder | or not |
| 05:04.49 | xbmodder | hahaha |
| 05:05.00 | Maquis | HIPAA is a beast... you don't want to get messed up in that at all |
| 05:05.01 | Maquis | trust me |
| 05:05.10 | Maquis | i've had to deal with it enough... |
| 05:05.38 | Maquis | sjansen: was it that hard to find the source code? and was it *that* bad? |
| 05:06.29 | xbmodder | how about remote data backup eh? |
| 05:07.13 | *** join/#utah spiderbiter (~spiderbit@38.119.177.194) |
| 05:07.51 | xbmodder | i have figured out what i am going to :) |
| 05:07.56 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 05:08.06 | tene | your plug'n'play router/firewall/server idea might have some merit |
| 05:08.20 | xbmodder | yeah, gallantweb |
| 05:08.24 | tene | "I want a router that does suchandsuch and soandso." |
| 05:08.37 | xbmodder | gallantry.com |
| 05:08.55 | xbmodder | she is gunna shimmy until her gutters break |
| 05:09.07 | xbmodder | quote from chicago |
| 05:09.20 | xbmodder | so i am screwed at that point |
| 05:09.43 | xbmodder | ok there is a program. it is called wintotal. they have a backup system for 300 bucks. i think i could run one... |
| 05:09.46 | xbmodder | for much less |
| 05:10.43 | xbmodder | HAHAHA! |
| 05:10.54 | xbmodder | i like that idea |
| 05:10.56 | xbmodder | :) |
| 05:10.56 | findlay | sjansen should be listening to Mozart |
| 05:10.58 | sjansen | Rocking Classical to Classic Rock |
| 05:13.33 | xbmodder | haha |
| 05:32.42 | xbmodder | w00ty :) |
| 06:10.32 | sjansen | I?m always workin? slavin? every day |
| 06:10.38 | sjansen | Gotta get away from that same old same old |
| 06:10.44 | sjansen | I need a chance just to get away |
| 06:10.44 | sjansen | If you could hear me think this is what I?d say |
| 06:10.51 | sjansen | Don?t need nothin? but a good time |
| 06:10.51 | sjansen | How can I resist |
| 06:10.51 | sjansen | Ain?t lookin? for nothin? but a good time |
| 06:10.51 | sjansen | And it don?t get better than this |
| 06:17.25 | Maquis | sjansen: no singing on the job |
| 06:17.49 | mheath | Wow. I just discovered an interesting fact |
| 06:18.21 | mheath | On the Utah State board that makes our Alcohol laws, there are 12 people. Only 3 of them have ever consumed alcohol. |
| 06:19.06 | mheath | Is it just me, or should a committee thats supposed to make laws that insure safe alcohol consumption... |
| 06:19.19 | mheath | contain people who know how to consume alcohol safely? |
| 06:19.29 | sjansen | Who said their job was to ensure consumption? |
| 06:19.50 | macnewbol1 | arguably, safest alcohol consumption is none at all, no? |
| 06:20.04 | mheath | macnewbol1: that's wrong |
| 06:20.13 | macnewbol1 | how so? |
| 06:20.19 | Maquis | mheath: i'm with macnewbol1 |
| 06:20.20 | mheath | Recent research has proven that some alcohol consumption can be beneficial to your health |
| 06:20.26 | Maquis | macnewbol1: what happened to your d? |
| 06:20.34 | mheath | Theres dozens of studies that say the same thing |
| 06:20.36 | Maquis | mheath: for some people, true |
| 06:20.40 | Maquis | for other people, false |
| 06:20.47 | macnewbol1 | it's still there... I'm still logged in from work, so I'm using a different nick from home |
| 06:21.22 | Maquis | some people's genes actually put them in a position where a single drink could potentially pull them into addiction |
| 06:21.37 | Maquis | for those people, even a single drink could be extremely dangerous |
| 06:21.39 | macnewbol1 | mheath: of all the people that consume alcohol, very few drink those levels for those reasons alone |
| 06:22.03 | macnewbol1 | and by that logic, the lawmakers should make it legal to drink only that much |
| 06:22.07 | mheath | Maquis: have you ever consumed alcohol? |
| 06:22.14 | Maquis | no |
| 06:22.25 | Maquis | and i intend not to |
| 06:22.27 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:22.28 | sjansen | Really saying something (saying something) |
| 06:22.28 | sjansen | Bop bop shoo be doo wah |
| 06:22.29 | macnewbol1 | amen |
| 06:22.40 | macnewbol1 | ~beep sjansen |
| 06:22.43 | ibot | ACTION informs sjansen that the beeper is no longer in service |
| 06:22.51 | mheath | Let me tell you, then, that a lot of the stuff people tell you about drinking isn't too true. |
| 06:22.52 | Maquis | hans: ping? |
| 06:23.02 | macnewbol1 | Maquis: pong |
| 06:23.15 | Maquis | mheath: and a lot of the stuff that you've heard about alcohol is also not true |
| 06:23.23 | macnewbol1 | kinda like the stuff they tell you about smoking, mheath? |
| 06:23.58 | mheath | Let me give you an example. |
| 06:24.03 | macnewbol1 | no offense, mheath, but this is probably the wrong group to try to convince of the benefits of drinking... :) |
| 06:24.16 | mheath | Drunk Goggles. Those things they show you in DARE in elementary that "Simulate being drunk" |
| 06:24.45 | mheath | It's not like that unless you are VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY drunk. |
| 06:25.01 | Maquis | doesn't change the fact that people do stupid things when they drink |
| 06:25.05 | Maquis | and it's bad for your liver |
| 06:25.12 | sjansen | Do you believe in love |
| 06:25.13 | sjansen | Do you believe it' true |
| 06:25.13 | sjansen | Do you believe in love |
| 06:25.13 | sjansen | Oh you can bet I believe it too |
| 06:25.18 | Maquis | and it causes you to have slower reaction time |
| 06:25.26 | mheath | And let me ask you something, seeing as how you seem to love the states Liquor laws |
| 06:25.57 | mheath | For low alcohol content drinks served in a restraunt, theres a limit on how many drinks can be served within a certain time period. |
| 06:26.00 | Maquis | even caffeine has very strong effects... my dad's a doctor, and he has seen the types of differences under a laproscope between a doctor who drinks caffeine and a doctor who doesn't |
| 06:26.03 | sjansen | Ah, well, looks like you're dead set on a debate. |
| 06:26.07 | macnewbol1 | I'm a believer in free agency, and I believe that if people want to do harmful things to themselves, that's their prerogative, so long as it doesn't unnecessarily infringe on my rights. |
| 06:26.15 | Maquis | sjansen: were you trying to block that? |
| 06:27.24 | sjansen | Which reminds me, watched the Wedding Singer again last night. Good movie. |
| 06:27.29 | mheath | Thing is, that limit is SO unspecific that I can serve that number of Large Beers, that number of Small Beers, that number of Long Island Iced Teas (The highest alcohol-content drink that can be served in a restraunt under Utahs weird laws..) |
| 06:27.34 | mheath | *inspecific |
| 06:27.35 | macnewbol1 | Alcohol is one that can easily infringe on others rights, cause if you're impaired, or disorderly, or damage your family life, that affects me and mine, both directly and indirectly, and it affects society as a whole in an adverse way. |
| 06:27.42 | Maquis | macnewbol1: yes... but drinking causes a ton of problems beyond the person's own sphere... |
| 06:27.56 | Maquis | well.. you said it better than i did... |
| 06:27.58 | macnewbol1 | sjansen: yes, it is :) |
| 06:28.07 | mheath | Another problem with Utahs Liquor Laws: |
| 06:28.16 | mheath | Say Person X goes and get drunk |
| 06:28.30 | Maquis | and on the way home they kill a person |
| 06:28.32 | mheath | Then, Person X (Who is drunk, but doesn't really appear drunk) walks into a restraunt and orders a small beer. |
| 06:28.46 | Maquis | and should be charged with murder |
| 06:28.48 | Maquis | ok |
| 06:28.51 | mheath | The Server thinks "Well, he doesn't look drunk" |
| 06:28.53 | Maquis | i'm done wth that rant... continue |
| 06:28.58 | mheath | And gives him his small beer |
| 06:29.04 | macnewbol1 | mheath: I don't see anything wrong with the laws you complain about. Sure, you don't like them, but if that's what the voice of the people, through their elected representatives, has chosen, then tough luck... you got out voted. :-( |
| 06:29.24 | mheath | The guy drinks it, leaves, gets in his car, and kills someone driving home. |
| 06:29.39 | macnewbol1 | bad thing |
| 06:29.49 | mheath | Now, even though he got drunk elsewhere, someone can bring legal action (and probably win) against the restraunt that gave him the small beer. |
| 06:29.51 | macnewbol1 | good example of why alcohol is so tightly controlled in Utah |
| 06:30.16 | macnewbol1 | mheath: they could bring it against _both_ I'd bet, if they could prove reasonably that he was drunk after the first one |
| 06:30.23 | Maquis | mheath: personally, i think they should just give the guy a life sentence because he killed someone through his own decision to drink and drive |
| 06:30.28 | mheath | No, no, macnewbol1 |
| 06:30.33 | mheath | You can't prove that he was drunk before |
| 06:30.41 | macnewbol1 | if he's not drunk enough to look drunk to the server, maybe the servers need to get trained better in seeing who they shouldn't be serving? |
| 06:30.46 | mheath | People have different tolerances to alcohol |
| 06:30.50 | macnewbol1 | sure |
| 06:31.07 | mheath | While no one in reality could get that drunk off of one beer, you could never prove that it wasn't that one beer that got him that drunk. |
| 06:31.13 | macnewbol1 | that's why they use B.A.C to measure it, cause it adjusts for body size, etc. automatically |
| 06:31.33 | mheath | Body size has nothing to do with it, either |
| 06:31.35 | mheath | It can effect it |
| 06:31.44 | macnewbol1 | mheath: so is he innocent till proven guilty or the other way around? |
| 06:31.45 | Maquis | i don't see why the server would get sued in the first place... |
| 06:32.00 | Maquis | personally, i think that anyone who drinks and drives should be locked up for 10 years |
| 06:32.01 | macnewbol1 | Maquis: it's against the law to serve alcohol to a drunk |
| 06:32.13 | Maquis | and if they hit someone, put'em in for life |
| 06:32.14 | macnewbol1 | that's why the server/establishment are at risk |
| 06:32.31 | mheath | Even if the person didn't appear drunk. |
| 06:32.31 | sjansen | Let's all be honest here. For most of us, it's a simple case the alcohol is offensive to us. Spelling it, smelling on other people's breath. If we thought it'd fly, we'd ban it. |
| 06:32.48 | mheath | Yeah, and banning it is a great idea. |
| 06:32.56 | sjansen | Because those of us who dislike alcohol are in the majority, we get to at least partially impose our will on the minority. |
| 06:33.17 | sjansen | We can come up with all kinds of scenarios, but that's the honest truth. |
| 06:33.20 | macnewbol1 | right, cause they're more likely to hit someone that chose _not_ to drink than some other drunk |
| 06:33.24 | Maquis | sjansen: well put |
| 06:33.31 | mheath | Actually, I'd guess that the majority of people in Utah drink |
| 06:33.37 | macnewbol1 | how do you figure? |
| 06:33.44 | mheath | granted, a lot of those are probably "a glass of wine on special occaions" people |
| 06:33.47 | Maquis | mheath: i don't know outside of happy valley... |
| 06:33.51 | Maquis | but inside happy valley, i'd contest that |
| 06:34.07 | macnewbol1 | given that the majority of the state is still LDS, I doubt it, mheath |
| 06:34.21 | mheath | Maquis: well, consider that most non-mormons drink at least some.. |
| 06:34.25 | macnewbol1 | (not saying that there aren't LDS people who drink) |
| 06:34.25 | sjansen | or more specifically, practicing LDS |
| 06:34.31 | mheath | Then, remember that not all Mormons follow the rules perfectly |
| 06:34.37 | sjansen | 'cause Utah has it's share of non-practicing |
| 06:34.50 | Maquis | mheath: true... but in happy valley... |
| 06:34.55 | macnewbol1 | mheath: you'd be surprised at how many people who don't abstain for religious reasons abstain anyway. |
| 06:35.06 | Maquis | i'm admitting that i don't know about the rest of the state... |
| 06:35.09 | macnewbol1 | you might as well claim that anyone who isn't mormon probably smokes |
| 06:35.15 | mheath | ... |
| 06:35.17 | mheath | No. |
| 06:35.18 | Maquis | macnewbol1: good point as well |
| 06:35.35 | Maquis | i knew large numbers of people in high school who weren't LDS and never drank |
| 06:35.45 | mheath | macnewbol1: keep in mind I'm not talking about hard, addicted-to-it alcoholism |
| 06:35.54 | macnewbol1 | me neither... |
| 06:35.58 | mheath | MOST people drink sometimes. |
| 06:36.10 | macnewbol1 | is that a guess, or a statistic you heard somewhere? |
| 06:36.21 | mheath | Granted, a lot of them are very light social drinkers |
| 06:36.35 | macnewbol1 | (bear in mind that 83.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot) |
| 06:36.38 | mheath | Statisticly |
| 06:36.39 | mheath | haha |
| 06:36.42 | mheath | Indeed :) |
| 06:36.45 | sjansen | Having been outside Utah, I'd believe it. |
| 06:37.04 | sjansen | But that doesn't change the fact that Utah is a different place. |
| 06:37.09 | macnewbol1 | and I'd say that a "very light social drinker" wouldn't even notice utah's strict liquor laws |
| 06:37.22 | macnewbol1 | cause they wouldn't _want_ to have two drinks on the table at once... |
| 06:37.28 | macnewbol1 | they'd only be drinking one |
| 06:37.35 | sjansen | The large LDS population and prevailing culture is enough to push those "light social" into "non". |
| 06:37.41 | *** join/#utah fluxCap (~lamontp@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 06:38.23 | Maquis | fluxCap == peregrine? |
| 06:38.32 | sjansen | yeah |
| 06:38.37 | fluxCap | Yup. |
| 06:38.42 | Maquis | just checking |
| 06:38.47 | macnewbol1 | it's been nice talking to you, mheath, sjansen, and Maquis... /me has to go prepare a presentation on strings and regular expressions in PHP for tomorrow night's UPHPU meeting |
| 06:38.47 | mheath | Utah's liquor laws are just silly, have weird priorities that they don't even accomplish, and are full of silly loopholes. That's all I'm saying |
| 06:38.49 | fluxCap | Hi. Somebody else is using Peregrine right now :( |
| 06:39.04 | macnewbol1 | doh... gotta register it, fluxCap :) |
| 06:39.09 | Maquis | fluxCap: have you registered the nick? |
| 06:39.23 | *** part/#utah macnewbol1 (~mac@newbold.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 06:39.39 | fluxCap | fluxCap is registered to me, somebody else registered Peregrine. |
| 06:39.45 | Maquis | :( |
| 06:40.08 | fluxCap | Maybe I should try "perry-grine" ? :) |
| 06:41.03 | sjansen | There's a bar right across the street, |
| 06:41.03 | mheath | fluxCap: close imitations of someone elses nick are usually discouraged |
| 06:41.04 | sjansen | He's got a need he just can't beat, |
| 06:41.04 | sjansen | Out on the floor he shuffles his feet away, yeah, yeah, |
| 06:41.04 | sjansen | He'll get the girl 'cause he looks so fine, |
| 06:41.04 | sjansen | He's gonna win her every time, he knows he will, |
| 06:41.04 | sjansen | He's dressed to kill, he's a night owl. |
| 06:42.06 | mheath | Question. The Apache docs say --enable-layout defaults to "Apache"... |
| 06:42.25 | mheath | Does that mean its hardcoded to the values the Apache layout contains in config.layout... |
| 06:42.47 | mheath | or if I change the Apache layout in config.layout, will that effect the config? |
| 06:43.12 | fluxCap | mheath: Thanks. I know, just joking around. Sorry. |
| 06:43.46 | fluxCap | It is frustrating though, since I have used Peregrine for my gaming handle for a long time. |
| 06:44.07 | sjansen | mheath: Good question. No answer. |
| 06:44.09 | mheath | fluxCap: Oh, sorry. I missed most of the conversation. I wasn't being critical, just giving some advice so you can avoid troublesome situations in the future |
| 06:46.39 | fluxCap | mheath: np. Thanks. Personally, I would prefer that people share such wisdom and find out that it is already known, rather than the alternative. |
| 06:47.27 | mheath | Haha. |
| 06:47.36 | mheath | fluxCap: indeed. |
| 06:48.22 | fluxCap | brb |
| 06:48.52 | mheath | Haha. |
| 06:49.06 | mheath | Maquis: you have to be the first girl I've met who actively sits in IRC. |
| 06:49.12 | mheath | *on |
| 06:50.48 | sjansen | I said "go if you wanna go, |
| 06:50.48 | sjansen | Stay if you wanna stay" |
| 06:50.48 | sjansen | I didn't care if you hung around me |
| 06:50.48 | sjansen | I didn't care if you went away |
| 06:50.48 | sjansen | And I know you were never right |
| 06:50.48 | sjansen | I'll admit I was never wrong |
| 06:50.50 | sjansen | I could never make up my mind |
| 06:50.52 | sjansen | I made it up as I went along |
| 06:50.54 | sjansen | And though I treated you like a child |
| 06:50.56 | sjansen | I'm gonna miss you for the rest of my life |
| 06:50.58 | sjansen | All I need is a miracle, all I need is you |
| 06:51.00 | sjansen | All I need is a miracle, all I need is you |
| 06:52.12 | mheath | Midnight, and I have school tomorrow. |
| 06:52.16 | Maquis | mheath: :) |
| 06:52.19 | mheath | Er...later today :D |
| 06:53.35 | mheath | Maquis: its amazing. Up until now, I thought the strange beast known as a "Technically Competant Female" was only a myth :D |
| 06:53.54 | Maquis | mheath: haha |
| 06:54.08 | Maquis | it's a very rare beast |
| 06:54.49 | sjansen | But when you get down to it, so is the male. |
| 06:55.09 | Maquis | true |
| 06:55.16 | Maquis | although they're slightly more common... |
| 06:55.18 | Maquis | :) |
| 06:55.18 | mheath | Indeed. Argh, IRC is like a magnet. |
| 06:55.51 | Maquis | mheath: you just need to make it up to escape velocity |
| 06:56.05 | mheath | Haha. Bye :) |
| 06:56.09 | sjansen | I hearby declare this IRC Users Anonymous meeting open. |
| 06:56.16 | Maquis | i thought you unplugged your monitor? |
| 06:56.31 | mheath | I did :) I'm psychic |
| 06:56.37 | Maquis | ah... |
| 06:56.38 | Maquis | ok |
| 06:56.49 | mheath | I can read your.....CPU. |
| 06:56.53 | Maquis | haha |
| 06:57.36 | mheath | My nightly cron jobs are starting |
| 06:57.45 | mheath | No one should be awake for their nightly cron jobs. |
| 06:57.58 | Maquis | mheath: depends on what time nightly cron jobs start |
| 06:58.10 | mheath | Midnight for me |
| 06:58.23 | sjansen | Life is so strange |
| 06:58.23 | sjansen | Destination unknown |
| 06:58.23 | sjansen | When you don't know |
| 06:58.23 | sjansen | Your destination |
| 06:58.23 | sjansen | Something could change |
| 06:58.24 | sjansen | It's unknown |
| 06:58.26 | sjansen | And then you won't know |
| 06:58.28 | sjansen | Destination unknown |
| 06:58.30 | mheath | My clock is a little off, need to sync it up with an NTP server |
| 06:58.46 | mheath | Nice talking to you all. G'night. |
| 07:01.01 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
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| 07:08.53 | sjansen | ~lart SUSE for being stupid yet again |
| 07:10.31 | fluxCap | Maquis: Hmmm...I'm waiting. ;D |
| 07:10.49 | Maquis | fluxCap: for? |
| 07:10.51 | fluxCap | Sorry; couldn't resist. |
| 07:10.56 | Maquis | ??? |
| 07:11.02 | Maquis | what are you waiting for? |
| 07:11.03 | Maquis | sorry... |
| 07:11.43 | fluxCap | Oh, sorry...your earlier comment "Maquis strokes her... oh wait..." :) |
| 07:12.27 | Maquis | haha |
| 07:12.30 | Maquis | :) |
| 07:13.00 | sjansen | If a girl walks in |
| 07:13.00 | sjansen | And carves her name in my heart |
| 07:13.00 | sjansen | I'll turn and run away |
| 07:13.00 | sjansen | Everyday we've all been led astray |
| 07:13.00 | sjansen | It's hard to be lucky in love |
| 07:13.11 | Maquis | fluxCap: random question |
| 07:13.18 | Maquis | is sjansen singing? |
| 07:13.20 | sjansen | It gets in your eyes |
| 07:13.21 | sjansen | It's making you cry |
| 07:13.21 | sjansen | Don't know what to do |
| 07:13.21 | sjansen | Looking for love |
| 07:13.21 | sjansen | Calling heaven above |
| 07:13.24 | Maquis | do you have music on over there? |
| 07:13.31 | sjansen | Send me an angel |
| 07:13.32 | sjansen | Right now right now |
| 07:13.34 | Maquis | why does he keep posting so many lyrics? |
| 07:14.42 | sjansen | I have headphones on. Singing under my breath. Pasting into #utah is one way to control the urge to sing out loud. |
| 07:15.20 | Maquis | ah... |
| 07:15.37 | Maquis | well, i suppose your coworkers are greatful for that, then... :) |
| 07:15.51 | sjansen | grateful, even |
| 07:15.58 | sjansen | Although I agree, they are great. |
| 07:22.09 | sjansen | Oh come on, I've done worse. |
| 07:22.26 | Maquis | yes, but that's you |
| 07:22.36 | Maquis | and you always misspell and mangle things |
| 07:22.39 | Maquis | i don't do it that often |
| 07:22.53 | Maquis | are you guys going to be at work all night???? |
| 07:23.10 | sjansen | Oh, I see. So you think you're better than me, huh? |
| 07:23.19 | Maquis | well... naturally :) |
| 07:23.25 | sjansen | heh |
| 07:23.40 | Maquis | i mean... ask anyone in this room whether they'd rather spend next saturday evening with you or with me :) |
| 07:23.52 | sjansen | Good answer, but kinda took the wind outta my sails. Was looking forward to harrassing you some more. |
| 07:24.10 | sjansen | Anyone? |
| 07:27.19 | vontrapp | i'm with Maquis on that one |
| 07:27.29 | vontrapp | bet you thought nobody was awake, eh? |
| 07:28.00 | fluxCap | Maquis: No, sjansen is not singing (praise the Lord for that!), he is just listening to his music really loudly in his headphones. |
| 07:30.03 | fluxCap | Sorry for being a little slow on the uptake. I just (finally) upgraded my notebook to FC3 and I am tweaking some little things. |
| 07:30.28 | fluxCap | Maquis: Are you going to be up all night? |
| 07:31.00 | fluxCap | Oh, and I would much prefer to spend the weekend with !sjansen :). |
| 07:31.27 | fluxCap | hic! |
| 07:32.17 | fluxCap | Hey! He really did it, too. |
| 07:34.58 | sjansen | I'm turning Japanese |
| 07:34.58 | sjansen | I think I'm turning Japanese |
| 07:34.58 | sjansen | I really think so |
| 07:34.58 | sjansen | Turning Japanese |
| 07:34.58 | sjansen | I think I'm turning Japanese |
| 07:34.59 | sjansen | I really think so |
| 07:35.01 | sjansen | Turning Japanese |
| 07:35.03 | sjansen | I think I'm turning Japanese |
| 07:35.05 | sjansen | I really think so |
| 07:35.07 | sjansen | Turning Japanese |
| 07:35.09 | sjansen | I think I'm turning Japanese |
| 07:35.15 | sjansen | I really think so |
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| 08:08.24 | bonez39 | anyone up at this hour? |
| 08:08.38 | sjansen | nope |
| 08:08.46 | bonez39 | I am at home, but wonder about networking at my office...I have a win 98se machine...and my linux box... |
| 08:09.15 | bonez39 | all three windows partitions are shared....and in the past I have had no trouble accessing any of them using mount /drivename |
| 08:09.45 | bonez39 | but lately, I can't mount drives c, d or e, as /sethc /sethd or /sethe respectively... |
| 08:10.24 | bonez39 | here's the thing though....I run Win4Lin on the linux machine..to run a virtual windows machine, ...and it shares with the win98se machine just fine |
| 08:11.29 | sjansen | sorry, can't help |
| 08:12.45 | bonez39 | I know samba has been updated lately....via apt-get upgrade....am wondering if the upgrade process has now broken it |
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| 08:48.27 | usynic | what apache directive should I use if I don't want people to view .ini files? |
| 08:48.59 | sjansen | <Files *.ini> |
| 08:49.08 | sjansen | Order deny,allow |
| 08:49.12 | sjansen | Deny from all |
| 08:49.19 | sjansen | </Files> |
| 08:49.26 | sjansen | roughly |
| 08:49.34 | usynic | thanks |
| 08:49.47 | sjansen | you also want to hide them |
| 08:50.02 | sjansen | look at the .htaccess stuff in httpd.conf |
| 08:53.29 | fluxCap | usynic: sjansen meant to look at the example of how to use the <Files> wrapper (with regex) for the .htaccess, etc. files that is in te httpd.conf file. |
| 08:54.11 | usynic | yeah, I see it |
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| 13:39.15 | mheath | Oh, fun! President Bush has said he wouldn't mind using military action in Iran if they don't stop their "suspected nuclear activity" |
| 13:41.10 | mheath | bonez39: you could try using SMB Filesystem support instead of using the Samba Client stuff. |
| 13:41.48 | goozbach | ~lart those who make office complexes for making the buildings all the same |
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| 15:07.44 | Maquis | mornin spr |
| 15:08.29 | Maquis | why does this clock insist on resetting itself to the wrong time constantly? |
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| 15:51.03 | hans | this just in. security hole found in rm - it will remove your files if used by an unauthorized intruder. |
| 15:52.26 | byronc | hans: will 'rm `which rm`' keep my machine safe? :) |
| 15:52.55 | hans | byronc: you got it |
| 15:53.09 | hans | and while you're at it, rm everything else. |
| 15:53.45 | hans | I'm getting tired of a new security update every day from debian and most of them are "if someone does this unlikely thing as you then they will have unlimited you power." |
| 15:54.18 | tensai | I was just commenting on that the other day. even when there's an update about libc it's a rediculous one. |
| 15:54.20 | hans | like this one: |
| 15:54.21 | hans | Danny Lungstrom discoverd a vulnerability in chbg, a tool to change |
| 15:54.21 | hans | background pictures. A maliciously crafted configuration/scenario |
| 15:54.21 | hans | file could overflow a buffer and lead to the execution of arbitrary |
| 15:54.21 | hans | code on the victim's machine. |
| 15:54.44 | hans | if someone can craft a malicious configuration/scenario and run it on my machine, then he don't need to do that. |
| 15:54.47 | hans | he's already there. |
| 15:54.50 | tensai | better than the alternative, though |
| 15:55.16 | hans | and if you bring up the social engineering card, I say it's easier to get someone to give you their password than to do strange things like run this carefully crafted chbg thing |
| 15:55.34 | hans | true. but it's like crying wolf |
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| 16:37.26 | tensai | hans: I left my boss a jabber about the Queen of Hearts. maybe I'll heard back from him. |
| 16:38.03 | hans | ok |
| 16:38.55 | hans | "the best way to put something off is to have the user do something" |
| 16:39.29 | alphahawk | Does anyone in here have any experience or recommendations on how to do stream multimedia over a network? |
| 16:43.47 | hans | what kind? |
| 16:43.58 | hans | audio, video, both, high-quality, low-quality |
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| 16:44.04 | Bradipo | Oh man, those pics of Bill are... stunning. |
| 16:44.24 | hans | pics? |
| 16:44.37 | wiggity | the Teen Beat spread |
| 16:44.52 | alphahawk | hans: audi mp3's right now is all |
| 16:45.04 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 16:45.12 | Bradipo | http://www.mirrordot.org/stories/b45b564dd93222faa7fc0335836835d1/index.html |
| 16:45.12 | tensai | I've used icecast with great success |
| 16:45.18 | Bradipo | Original site has been slashdotted. |
| 16:45.29 | hans | yeah, icecast |
| 16:45.42 | alphahawk | tensai, hans: that is what I am looking at now. |
| 16:46.38 | alphahawk | tensai, hans: one question though I haven't been able to find the answer on yet with it is can I change the play list remolty or while it is broadcasting? |
| 16:47.44 | mrpull | i've played a little with helix, darwin, and windows media encoder... |
| 16:47.52 | mrpull | is it mostly audio or video and audio? |
| 16:48.11 | hans | alphahawk: I don't think I've ever streamed a playlist - just one file (live at that - a plug meeting) |
| 16:48.14 | hans | or was it uug? |
| 16:49.02 | alphahawk | hans: thanks for info. so far from what I have read it looks like you can do it just haven't found anything that comes out and says you can |
| 16:49.04 | mrpull | http://streamsicle.com/FAQ.shtml |
| 16:49.08 | tensai | I also was streaming live off the sound card |
| 16:49.13 | mrpull | is a dead simple mp3 jukebox |
| 16:49.33 | tensai | I thought I remembered something about how you connect to the icecast server with e.g. xmms and send your playlist to it. |
| 16:50.15 | tensai | that's where the original term "shoutcast" came from. xmms would "shout" and the server would "cast" it to everybody else. |
| 16:50.44 | mrpull | with streamsicle you can queue up a playlist with a web interface |
| 16:50.51 | tensai | if that's right, then all you have to do is change your local playlist and everyone else will hear it. |
| 16:51.02 | mrpull | the only problem i know of with it is it streams at the bitrate on the disk (doesn't downsample) |
| 16:51.20 | mrpull | if your bandwidth is limited, you may get "skipping" |
| 16:53.12 | alphahawk | mrpull: No bandwidth limits. I only want to broadcast it internally. |
| 16:53.24 | mrpull | ahhh... do you want others to be able to choose songs? |
| 16:53.44 | alphahawk | Ya if they are on the internal network. |
| 16:54.38 | mrpull | give streamsicle a shot. I just set it up for a friend (on windows) and it is easy as pie |
| 16:56.24 | alphahawk | mrpull: going to set it up on a nix box so will try both that and icecast also |
| 16:56.29 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:00.20 | mrpull | streamsicle is Java. if you 've got java setup, it shouldn't be too much trouble. |
| 17:00.49 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 17:00.50 | mrpull | off course, java can be a PITA if your distro doesn't like it. |
| 17:01.25 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@66.239.17.228.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:02.00 | *** join/#utah alpahawk (~alphahawk@70.56.105.158) |
| 17:12.02 | mrpull | Who'd like to venture how much a single 3GHz Xeon would outperform a Dual 450MHz P3? |
| 17:12.25 | levi | Heh. |
| 17:13.17 | mrpull | and to make it interesting, the 3GHz would have 512 MB of RAM and the 450MHz would be 768 MB |
| 17:13.41 | mrpull | (running IIS/Cold Fusion to make it more interesting) |
| 17:15.00 | mrpull | no takers? |
| 17:15.46 | mrpull | a customer is considering purchasing some $500 dollar disk drives to upgrade 5 year old servers. I'm trying to sway him into some "low-end" servers to replace them. |
| 17:19.53 | sjansen | mrpull: best o' luck t'ya' |
| 17:28.35 | mrpull | did I scare everyone away with a hardware question? |
| 17:35.13 | levi | So, you really want guesses as to how much faster the Xeon is? |
| 17:35.26 | levi | I thought one of those hardware sites published some benchmarks like that a while ago. |
| 17:35.45 | mrpull | that's true. I believe I saw that. |
| 17:35.47 | mrpull | THG? |
| 17:35.59 | mrpull | I doubt they had dual cpu on there though. |
| 17:36.51 | mrpull | http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041220/index.html |
| 17:36.58 | levi | The benefits of dual cpus are highly application dependant. |
| 17:37.39 | mrpull | understood. |
| 17:37.47 | mrpull | it's windows/IIS |
| 17:38.04 | levi | I'm pretty ignorant about that application. :) |
| 17:38.08 | mrpull | :) |
| 17:38.15 | mrpull | i won't hold that against you |
| 17:38.23 | Maquis | question: is there a really stupid error in this line: |
| 17:38.26 | Maquis | sscanf(argv[i],"%d",myArg); |
| 17:38.57 | Maquis | i'm printf-ing argv[i] above it, and it's an int... |
| 17:39.08 | Maquis | but it's seg-faulting... |
| 17:39.22 | byronc | Maquis: try &myArg |
| 17:39.36 | byronc | unless myArg is already an int* |
| 17:39.42 | Maquis | byronc: oh... |
| 17:39.43 | *** join/#utah Rajah (~mike@208.177.141.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:39.43 | Maquis | thanks :) |
| 17:39.54 | Maquis | i didn't know it had to be an int* :) |
| 17:40.13 | Jayce^ | gee byron, why pass a subroutine? oh wait, it's not perl :-p |
| 17:40.29 | mrpull | yuck. c is not my friend. |
| 17:40.43 | sjansen | C is your friend, you just don't know how to treat it well. |
| 17:40.57 | Jayce^ | it requires you to pay proper respect.. |
| 17:41.13 | mrpull | i'll take Perl any day. I give C (and its coders) all due respect. |
| 17:41.31 | Jayce^ | Perl : C for scripting :) |
| 17:41.43 | levi | Jayce: Ew. Perl is nothing like C. |
| 17:41.55 | levi | Except for some vague similarities in syntax. |
| 17:41.55 | mrpull | and getting stuff done in a hurry w/o digging your eyes out in frustration |
| 17:41.57 | Jayce^ | it's has enormous similarities to C |
| 17:42.14 | levi | C is simple and lightweight. Perl is exactly the opposite. |
| 17:42.28 | Jayce^ | that's why, no matter how much he rags on it, sjansen always comes back to perl for scripting |
| 17:42.32 | Jayce^ | how is it the opposite? |
| 17:42.52 | Jayce^ | perl is flexible, like C |
| 17:43.07 | levi | Perl is complex, syntax-heavy, has everything built-in, and is far-removed from the hardware. |
| 17:43.42 | levi | C is simple, light on syntax (compared to Perl, at least), has very little built-in, and is just a small bit above asm. |
| 17:43.54 | Jayce^ | Perl can be extremely light on syntax, or very stylistic, it's yoru option.. |
| 17:44.08 | Jayce^ | Perl is just a bunch of C macros underneath |
| 17:44.20 | levi | What you mean by syntax and what I mean are two entirely different things. |
| 17:44.21 | Jayce^ | most of perl is in optional libraries |
| 17:44.50 | levi | Perl is not a bunch of C macros. Perl is a bytecode interpreted language. |
| 17:45.14 | levi | You can implement any language in any other turing-complete language. That's irrelevant. |
| 17:45.44 | synic | <cough>perl is ugly</cough> |
| 17:45.58 | Jayce^ | pre- perl 5, perl simply compiled into C.. that's all it did |
| 17:46.00 | mrpull | perl _is_ ugly... but I keep coming back |
| 17:46.03 | erj | bah the world can be ruled with Python Java and C |
| 17:46.12 | Jayce^ | perl is beautiful |
| 17:46.16 | sjansen | ~puttyslap synic |
| 17:46.19 | ibot | ACTION rolls a large, Guru blue puttybat then whacks synic and Maquis with it |
| 17:46.19 | Jayce^ | just as C is |
| 17:46.21 | levi | I'm not arguing aesthetics. |
| 17:46.32 | synic | hehe, I guess I deserved that. |
| 17:46.34 | levi | I'm saying Perl has a lot of syntax. |
| 17:46.35 | *** join/#utah goozbach-treo (~upirc@001-829-003.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 17:46.37 | Jayce^ | no, but synice was trying too :) |
| 17:46.45 | levi | C has a lot less syntax. |
| 17:46.46 | Jayce^ | perl has *optional* syntax |
| 17:46.55 | *** part/#utah goozbach-treo (~upirc@001-829-003.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 17:47.04 | Jayce^ | you can code perl exactly as C, *or* natural language, *or*.. |
| 17:47.06 | levi | Which means you still have to know it. And you're required to know more than you need with C. |
| 17:47.21 | Maquis | i didn't deserve that!!! |
| 17:47.24 | sjansen | Jayce^: except for the whole strings not being arrays thing |
| 17:47.27 | Jayce^ | you aren't required, but you can... |
| 17:47.33 | Maquis | how come i'm always getting whacked with putty? |
| 17:47.34 | levi | I'm talking about the size of the grammar that accepts valid Perl vs. the size of the grammar that accepts valid C. |
| 17:47.54 | levi | Whether you use all of it or not is irrelevant. |
| 17:48.17 | Newsome | haha |
| 17:49.06 | Jayce^ | so why does that make it *nothing* like C? |
| 17:49.45 | sjansen | Maquis: You started it. |
| 17:49.52 | Maquis | sjansen: what did i start? |
| 17:49.58 | levi | Jayce: Okay, I take back the 'nothing' part. It's very little like C. |
| 17:50.07 | sjansen | * Maquis didn't mean to start a language flame-war... |
| 17:50.17 | Maquis | i really didn't!!! |
| 17:50.24 | levi | Obviously I was exaggerating, since I made an exception. |
| 17:50.35 | sjansen | Okay, so it was actually mrpull... but still. |
| 17:50.40 | sjansen | ~puttyslap mrpull |
| 17:50.42 | ibot | ACTION rolls a large, Guru blue puttybat then whacks mrpull and Maquis with it |
| 17:50.50 | levi | I'm not saying Perl is bad, dude. I don't like it that much, but I realize that it's very useful for a lot of people. |
| 17:50.53 | sjansen | hee hee |
| 17:50.55 | levi | I'm just saying it's not a lot like C. |
| 17:51.08 | mrpull | whoopsy.... |
| 17:51.20 | Maquis | ibot: no, puttyslap $who is <action> rolls a large, Guru blue puttybat, then whacks $who and sjansen with it |
| 17:51.21 | ibot | Maquis: okay |
| 17:51.22 | Jayce^ | and I'm saying that part of the reason I went to perl was because it was closer to C than many of the other options I had at the time (Java, Python, etc) |
| 17:51.24 | sjansen | It's similiar in two points: both are very flexible and both are holding the world together. |
| 17:52.03 | Jayce^ | exactly, I liked the syntax commonality, the flexibility for the programmer (big selling point), and the fact that it was everywhere |
| 17:52.56 | levi | The syntax commonality is really just a bit of icing. You could make a functionally equivalent language with slightly different syntax, and then it would be even less like C! |
| 17:53.28 | sjansen | ~puttyslap levi |
| 17:53.30 | ibot | ACTION rolls a large, Guru blue puttybat, whacks levi once, then beats Maquis repeatedly |
| 17:53.33 | Jayce^ | but it is one point in factoring, and one I wanted |
| 17:54.05 | levi | Sure. I'm sure it's a big reason a lot of people choose it. But it doesn't make it very much like C, just gives it some surface similarity. |
| 17:54.32 | alpahawk | can someone answer a question please. I am trying to compile the icecast and getting erros with this file ac_nonexistent.h. What package is this file in anyone know? |
| 17:56.36 | Jayce^ | so like != similar? |
| 17:56.45 | Jayce^ | I'd say that is a category :) |
| 17:56.51 | sjansen | alpahawk: try "locate ac_nonexistent.h" |
| 17:57.03 | Jayce^ | alpahawk, I'd guess it's non existent :) |
| 17:57.24 | alpahawk | tried the locate and can't find it |
| 17:58.38 | levi | Jayce^: Using { } for blocks does not make it enormously like C. It makes its appearance vaguely similar. |
| 17:58.39 | sjansen | I don't have it either. |
| 17:59.22 | sjansen | ~puttyslap levi |
| 17:59.24 | ibot | ACTION rolls a large, Guru blue puttybat and whacks levi |
| 18:02.32 | Jayce^ | yeah, but that's 1 little thing of many... it's not a single piece that makes everything similar.. |
| 18:03.10 | Jayce^ | anybody else heading to hans' in-laws new place for lunch today? |
| 18:03.37 | Newsome | hmm, what's on the menu? |
| 18:03.45 | Jayce^ | tex-mex |
| 18:09.47 | *** join/#utah natester (~me@67.50.46.118) |
| 18:09.58 | Maquis | yay for men's chorus! |
| 18:10.11 | Newsome | blah |
| 18:10.18 | Maquis | Newsome: ??? |
| 18:10.33 | Newsome | buncha pretty-boys |
| 18:10.36 | hans | Jayce^: what time you goin? |
| 18:10.41 | natester | I know a worse word |
| 18:11.51 | sjansen | I think we all know bad words. |
| 18:12.19 | natester | I thought I was the only one |
| 18:12.22 | Jayce^ | hans, right around noon noon-thirty ish |
| 18:12.30 | sjansen | Speaking of bad words: how many people here think "simplest" is ugly? I think "more simple" is much more pleasent to read or hear. |
| 18:12.51 | Maquis | sjansen: well, "more simple" has a slightly different meaning |
| 18:12.58 | Maquis | unless you're referring to "most simple" |
| 18:13.00 | Jayce^ | superlative |
| 18:13.07 | Jayce^ | absolute superlative |
| 18:13.23 | Maquis | Newsome: they sing well though... |
| 18:13.35 | sjansen | In certain contexts, it can be used interchangeable without changing meaning. |
| 18:14.06 | sjansen | My point is that both "most simple" and "more simple" are "pleasanter". |
| 18:14.17 | Maquis | sjansen: i agree |
| 18:14.45 | hans | sjansen: you're comparing apples to oranges |
| 18:14.59 | sjansen | I wonder why. "Heavier" is more pleasant than "more heavy". |
| 18:15.32 | Jayce^ | mpl is a harder sound than avi |
| 18:15.32 | sjansen | I wonder if my opinion is common and if it's guided by any sort of rule. |
| 18:15.44 | Jayce^ | kinda like getting a brasilian to say the word 'world' |
| 18:15.51 | Jayce^ | hilarious to watch them try |
| 18:15.57 | Jayce^ | toungue twister |
| 18:16.32 | hans | I've never had a problem with simplest. It's simpler than two words, eh? |
| 18:17.03 | sjansen | see, I would have said "more simple", or better yet "easier" |
| 18:17.20 | hans | more simple would work. easier would be changing the meaning |
| 18:18.03 | Maquis | i think in that context, easier would be about the same... |
| 18:18.06 | sjansen | combined with alliteration (simplest solution), I don't mind the word |
| 18:19.10 | sjansen | Worse than "simplest" would be "simpler" -- that one makes me cringe. |
| 18:19.45 | Newsome | "more simple-riffic"? |
| 18:20.12 | Jayce^ | sjansen, bet you'd love to live in Idaho then, with all the 'Simplot' farms :) |
| 18:20.41 | sjansen | No, that has nothing to do with it. |
| 18:21.14 | sjansen | Although "used to could" does. It's about the use of the language, not the imp sound. |
| 18:21.56 | Jayce^ | j'eat yet? no? y'ump'to? |
| 18:26.40 | goozbach | b00b! |
| 18:27.43 | sjansen | ~puttyslap goozbach |
| 18:27.45 | ibot | ACTION rolls a large, Guru blue puttybat and whacks goozbach |
| 18:28.32 | Maquis | howdy goo! :) |
| 18:30.55 | hans | Jayce^: so i and a couple of coworkers are planning on 12:30ish |
| 18:31.12 | sjansen | ~spell versitile |
| 18:31.14 | ibot | possible spellings for versitile: versatile versicle varsities vestal versatilely vesicle vestige vestibule Vistula whistle Westley stile restyle verities wrestle Verile vesture versified veritable versifier vestally Estele Nestle nestle pestle resettle versifies |
| 18:31.26 | sjansen | thought so |
| 18:31.29 | sjansen | ~botsnack |
| 18:31.29 | ibot | thanks, sjansen |
| 18:31.54 | sjansen | ~spell incarnation |
| 18:31.54 | ibot | 'incarnation' may be spelled correctly |
| 18:32.00 | Maquis | ~botsnack |
| 18:32.00 | ibot | aw, gee, Maquis |
| 18:35.17 | Jayce^ | great |
| 18:40.47 | sjansen | I'm just 24 hours away from a personal record. |
| 18:42.09 | hans | macnewbold: I think his record was running a debian-based distro |
| 18:42.55 | macnewbold | 72 hrs is a pretty wimpy record... what good is a machine that can't stay up for at least a week at a time? |
| 18:42.59 | sjansen | I'm almost afraid to try to get my wireless card working, for fear of angering the Debian daemons. |
| 18:43.13 | sjansen | macnewbold: I'm talking about being useable. |
| 18:43.49 | sjansen | I've onlly successfully installed Debian twice. The first time it degenerated into unstable uselessness within hours. |
| 18:44.02 | sjansen | The next install was toast withing three days. |
| 18:44.13 | Maquis | sjansen: did this one not degenerate into unstable uselessness within the first few minutes? |
| 18:44.36 | Maquis | it seemed to be unstable uselessness on saturday... |
| 18:44.38 | byronc | sjansen: This may help: http://bits.byronandannie.net/index.php?p=11 |
| 18:44.39 | sjansen | This is the first non-ancient, stable Debian install I've ever managed. |
| 18:45.28 | sjansen | Maquis: Not really. It started useless. I just consider it the longest non-gentoo install I've ever done. |
| 18:45.50 | Maquis | sjansen: haha |
| 18:46.03 | Maquis | sjansen: when did you have it completed? |
| 18:46.20 | Maquis | (ie, how long did it take total?) |
| 18:46.36 | sjansen | About 24 hours. |
| 18:46.40 | Maquis | hmmm |
| 18:46.49 | Maquis | ok... that does beat gentoo... slightly |
| 18:49.02 | sjansen | The longest gentoo install I've done was wrestling Gentoo onto my ancient iMac. Took about a week. |
| 18:49.57 | erj | mmm gentoo |
| 18:50.16 | Maquis | sjansen: i've done gentoo on my desktop and my laptop... the first one took about 3.5 days, but that was primarily because i kept getting lost and confused, and needing help/advice... |
| 18:50.17 | byronc | gentoo on a pentium 266 will make anyone scream. |
| 18:50.27 | Maquis | the second one took like 2 days... |
| 18:50.46 | Maquis | (we will now ignore the stability of my system) |
| 18:50.55 | erj | I did a stage 1 install on a P233 with 64MB of RAM. It took some patience. |
| 18:57.28 | levi | Ew, gentoo. |
| 19:11.10 | *** join/#utah brigham (~brigham@128.187.244.16) |
| 19:11.21 | Maquis | brigham: howdy! |
| 19:11.21 | brigham | Maquis: salut |
| 19:11.38 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 19:11.46 | *** join/#utah xilch (~xilch@66.239.17.228.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 19:19.10 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~sjk36@128.187.175.127) |
| 19:19.15 | Maquis | |lart SpecialK |
| 19:19.18 | SpecialK | ~lart Maquis |
| 19:19.21 | Maquis | |lart SpecialK |
| 19:19.29 | SpecialK | |lart Maquis |
| 19:19.44 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 19:19.45 | Maquis | oops |
| 19:19.54 | Maquis | |lart SpecialK |
| 19:20.27 | SpecialK | with? |
| 19:24.10 | Maquis | gurus: did you guys ever go home last night? |
| 19:24.25 | macnewbold | gurus don't get to go home at night, they just lock them all up in the basement |
| 19:25.01 | sjansen | we did this morning |
| 19:25.07 | Maquis | what time this morning |
| 19:25.22 | Maquis | ? |
| 19:28.02 | sjansen | Anyone out there have experience with tripwire replacements? |
| 19:28.46 | macnewbold | fishing line can work, but get something pretty strong |
| 19:30.17 | Maquis | sjansen: what time this morning? |
| 19:36.10 | mrpull | i'd be interested in what you find for tripwire replacements too. |
| 19:36.16 | mrpull | it seems like the free version is dead. |
| 19:36.18 | sjansen | somtime between bannana and strawberry |
| 19:36.25 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 19:37.54 | tensai | sjansen: I've been using AIDE and I like it. It doesn't sign the database or reports so it would technically be easy to cover your tracks. |
| 19:38.18 | tensai | I'm counting on crackers to be morons, which is pretty accurate in my experience |
| 19:39.25 | sjansen | Looked at Samhain? |
| 19:39.41 | tensai | I've heard of it but I don't think I ever tried it out |
| 19:47.21 | *** join/#utah alphahawk (~alphahawk@70.56.105.158) |
| 19:49.23 | alphahawk | another question about streaming audio across a network. So far I have looked at shoutcast, and icecast and both pretty much need a winamp system to play them. Anyone know a music broadcaster that woudl support windows media player, realplayer and others also? |
| 19:57.07 | macnewbold | most of those I believe you just give them a link to the .wmv, .asx, or whatever, and they buffer a bit and play as they download |
| 19:57.29 | macnewbold | does that work for your purposes? If not, why not? |
| 19:59.25 | SpecialK | Where to go for help sounds easy enough. |
| 20:04.22 | Maquis | |maquis |
| 20:04.35 | Maquis | has brigham forgotten me? |
| 20:10.55 | sjansen | Mecworks: I know that apache, yast, and suseconfig aren't your department... but I'm about ready to come down there and kick your trash for even being associated with SUSE. |
| 20:19.11 | tensai | I kicked a rotten pumpkin once. I don't recommend doing that. I expect kicking trash would have similar results. |
| 20:21.06 | dataw0lf | actually, kicking Suse is a bit more rewarding. |
| 20:21.15 | dataw0lf | well, kicking the cds anyway. |
| 20:41.19 | hans | 'maqui |
| 20:41.23 | hans | 'maquis |
| 20:41.24 | brigham | maquis is a budding Linux wizards facing distinct challenges on the path to becoming a grey beard. |
| 20:41.52 | tensai | brigham: when did you reappear? |
| 20:41.53 | brigham | no idea |
| 20:42.05 | tensai | ~seen brigham |
| 20:42.06 | ibot | brigham is currently on #utah (1h 30m 56s). Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 13s |
| 20:42.12 | sjansen | brigham: no, maquis is a budding Linux wizard facing distinct challenges on the path to becoming a grey beard. |
| 20:42.12 | brigham | okay |
| 20:43.11 | hans | briham, who's your daddy? |
| 20:43.20 | hans | brihgam, who's your daddy? |
| 20:43.27 | hans | brigham, who's your daddy? |
| 20:43.28 | brigham | *shrug* |
| 20:43.34 | *** join/#utah alphahawk (~alphahawk@206.81.133.248) |
| 20:43.36 | hans | 'tensai |
| 20:43.37 | Jayce^ | can't even spell his kids name :) |
| 20:43.37 | brigham | tensai is ten sighs or sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh |
| 20:43.48 | hans | 'brigham |
| 20:43.48 | brigham | brigham is the Lion of the Lord |
| 20:44.12 | hans | |roulette |
| 20:44.13 | brigham | hans: chamber 1 of 6 => +click+ |
| 20:45.20 | hans | so Jayce^ and his army kept my aunt busy. :) |
| 20:45.50 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 20:46.05 | Jayce^ | gave them seconds thoughts about trying to open |
| 20:46.09 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@67-50-102-213.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 20:46.29 | hans | bucky as in katt? |
| 20:46.52 | bucky | hehe.. people have asked me that before but no |
| 20:47.35 | Jayce^ | hans, two more hours in the training cage for you.. |
| 20:51.04 | hans | I switched from dilbert to get fuzzy for the desk calendar this year |
| 20:51.19 | hans | the training cage is funny |
| 21:04.23 | Jayce^ | do procmail rules allow for () and | in the regex? |
| 21:07.04 | hans | no clue |
| 21:22.56 | goozbach | |goozbach |
| 21:24.06 | *** join/#utah natester (~me@67.50.46.118) |
| 21:24.18 | natester | what signal is ctrl+z ? |
| 21:24.30 | wiggity | INTR |
| 21:24.40 | hans | hmm. why did my xterms all of a sudden stop listening to .Xresources? |
| 21:25.54 | natester | I'm sorry I can't do that .Xresources |
| 21:26.47 | natester | wiggity: signal 2 is int |
| 21:26.50 | natester | on liunx |
| 21:29.52 | sjansen | INTR, I thought it was STOP |
| 21:32.28 | *** join/#utah tene (~tene@slacker.developer.poipu) |
| 21:38.41 | *** part/#utah DallinJones (~dallin@208.186.180.204) |
| 21:39.58 | *** join/#utah mhatch (~mhatch@66.239.25.54.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:40.13 | *** join/#utah spudg (~spudg@dialup-4.155.0.13.Dial1.Baltimore1.Level3.net) |
| 21:40.33 | spudg | any linux/java users out there? |
| 21:41.29 | Jayce^ | not it |
| 21:41.31 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 21:41.37 | erj | sure, shoot |
| 21:41.45 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@jamestkirk.byu.edu) |
| 21:41.51 | macnewbold | run! |
| 21:42.01 | jakea | ya, it's me, run |
| 21:42.11 | macnewbold | :) |
| 21:42.15 | macnewbold | j/k jakea |
| 21:42.16 | hans | jakea: wasn't that a nice episode? |
| 21:42.21 | macnewbold | jakea++ |
| 21:42.41 | jakea | hans: Didn't see Enterprise, but I can talk the first two eps of Galactica with you |
| 21:42.46 | hans | but I'm mad. I was so psyched that trials and tribbleations would be on and the weather made the satellite go out when it should have recorded. (not frequent, only really bad storms) |
| 21:42.58 | hans | didn't look for them. were they good? |
| 21:43.03 | spudg | I'm trying to load multiple native libraries using System.loadLibrary, if I set -Djava.library.path the first works, but the second (which depends on the first) doesn't. if I use LD_LIBRARY_PATH it works, and ideas? |
| 21:43.21 | jakea | they were good |
| 21:43.25 | jakea | brb |
| 21:43.38 | byronc | spudg: both libraries are in the same directory? |
| 21:43.42 | spudg | yup |
| 21:43.45 | byronc | spudg: is this an swt app? |
| 21:43.49 | spudg | nope |
| 21:44.09 | byronc | what does the -Djava.library.path look like |
| 21:44.45 | spudg | -Djava.library.path=. or /path/to/directory same results either way |
| 21:47.44 | spudg | any ideas why java.library.path wouldn't work and LD_LIB_PATH would? |
| 21:48.09 | jakea | hans: back, sorry, been fixing everyone's email settings today |
| 21:48.49 | byronc | That should work, at least that's what works on a java app I'm working on that needs two libraries from the same directory. |
| 21:51.26 | hans | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:51.34 | jakea | hans: anyway, I read part of a review that paised the eposide, sounded interesting, but my usual Star Trek bud that records it for me says he thinks it was the (Comic Book Guy) Worst. Episode. Ever. |
| 21:52.13 | jakea | hans, no, this was physics email. We moved which server it was on, so people need to change there Mozilla / LookOut settings |
| 21:52.28 | jakea | -there +their |
| 21:53.01 | spudg | could it be the libraries? I just did a small test with 2 random libs from /usr/lib and it worked just fine |
| 21:53.33 | spudg | is there a command to find out what other libraries a shared library depends on? |
| 21:54.42 | hans | jakea: it wasn't bad. it was detached, as in detached from the overall storyline |
| 21:55.05 | jakea | hans, Galactica was good. They did the first two eps. I liked them better than the Mini-Series a year ago. And best part is no recycled scenes of ships blowing up like in the old one. |
| 21:55.17 | hans | but it was pretty good. more reminiscent of first half tng than say voyager |
| 21:55.17 | jakea | cool |
| 21:56.14 | tensai | spudg: ldd /usr/lib/libfoo.so |
| 21:56.15 | jakea | oh, and rumors abound about no 5th season, but Coto squashed them and said nothing has been decided |
| 21:57.01 | jakea | it's a toss up, ratings for the show went down this season, but it was moved to Friday, where ratins went up in the time slot (and it's Friday) |
| 21:57.23 | jakea | went up by UPN standards that is |
| 21:57.42 | jakea | I really think the show would do better if it was run like TNG was instead of on UPN |
| 22:21.25 | hans | not that you care, but I'm switching window managers again. it's that time |
| 22:21.29 | hans | ion2 |
| 22:23.44 | tensai | 'lart ion2 |
| 22:24.04 | tensai | |lart ion2 |
| 22:24.19 | tensai | hans: what's the deal with the ' and |? |
| 22:26.11 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@67-50-102-213.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 22:29.43 | *** part/#utah Rajah (~mike@208.177.141.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:33.52 | natester | how can I restrict a user to only login at the console and not remotely via ssh? |
| 22:34.25 | sjansen | pam |
| 22:34.34 | sjansen | specifically, pam_access |
| 22:34.41 | tensai | ssh's AllowUsers directive |
| 22:35.13 | tensai | or AllowGroups, DenyUsers, DenyGroups. take your pick. |
| 22:36.00 | natester | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:36.51 | sjansen | probably a combination of ssh and gdm configuration |
| 22:37.51 | sjansen | sshd_config PermitRootLogin no probably |
| 22:37.56 | sjansen | For controlling root, you'd use pam_securetty |
| 22:39.30 | tensai | what's the syntax to edit a file in vim over ssh? |
| 22:40.35 | natester | ? |
| 22:40.52 | natester | vi file |
| 22:40.59 | natester | is this a troll? |
| 22:41.10 | natester | trawl |
| 22:41.12 | natester | hmm |
| 22:41.43 | tensai | vim can load the file over ssh rather than ssh'ing to the box and opening vim |
| 22:41.52 | sjansen | tensai: Is that possible... I guess it would be theoretically. |
| 22:42.28 | tensai | yes, I've used it before. just not very often. |
| 22:43.58 | tensai | ~wake up hans so he can give me the answer |
| 22:44.00 | ibot | up hans so he can give me the answer: GOOD MORNING!!! |
| 22:44.17 | sjansen | ~ping hans |
| 22:44.19 | ibot | pong hans |
| 22:44.37 | sjansen | So how does one find out what package a file came from on Debian? |
| 22:44.59 | tensai | dpkg -S <filename or portion of name> |
| 22:46.58 | tensai | I usually install dlocate which significantly speeds up the process |
| 22:47.34 | bonez39 | tensai: is dlocate like 'locate' but enhanced? |
| 22:47.59 | tensai | dlocate is just for debian packages. it just tells you which package owns a given file. |
| 22:48.07 | tensai | it's much faster than dpkg -S |
| 22:48.22 | bonez39 | ok... |
| 22:49.57 | bonez39 | oh, here's a question...mheath addressed it earlier...about mounting a windows share with 'mount'...where 'mount' fails to connect...he suggested using smb instead....I thought 'mount' and samba utilities WERE part of SMB..server message blocks...et al...is that true? |
| 22:50.22 | sjansen | nope |
| 22:50.22 | mheath | No |
| 22:50.30 | sjansen | smbmount is, though |
| 22:50.33 | mheath | You have a couple options when wanting to mount Samba shares |
| 22:50.55 | mheath | smbmount is userland, and comes with Samba |
| 22:51.10 | mheath | You can also enable support in your kernel for "SMB Filesystem" |
| 22:51.14 | tensai | mount just calls smbmount I think |
| 22:51.39 | mheath | That allows you to directly mount Samba shares using the mount found in coreutils |
| 22:51.42 | mheath | using all kernel code |
| 22:54.37 | mheath | Or |
| 22:54.49 | mheath | If you have smbmount, you call also mount with "mount" using all userland stuff |
| 22:55.04 | bonez39 | well, here's the odd thing....I get my IP through my cisco 678....from xmission...and then both my linux machine and my win 98se machine are both connected to the cisco through a hub....with addresses in range 10.0.0.x etc....yet, when I try to mount the win98se machine...it fails with Error connecting to 69.36.41.82....I am going to look up that IP .but it's not from xmission and not from my LAN.... |
| 22:55.25 | tensai | smbmount require smbfs kernel support no matter what |
| 22:55.30 | bonez39 | I have /etc/fstab set to allow smbfs connection to the three shared win 98se machine partitions... |
| 22:55.53 | bonez39 | so I need to see in first place whether my kernel has support enabled..I am sure it does but will check |
| 22:57.41 | *** join/#utah mhatch (matthew@66.239.25.52.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:58.08 | bonez39 | how do I look up an IP to see who owns it? |
| 22:59.12 | tensai | whois <ip> |
| 23:00.13 | bonez39 | I guess I didn't have 'whois' installed... |
| 23:01.44 | sjansen | ~urls |
| 23:01.51 | sjansen | |urls |
| 23:01.51 | brigham | [2004/12/23 23:02:07] <beandog> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=1085&highlight=mutt+pop |
| 23:01.52 | brigham | [2004/12/23 12:13:53] <jakea> http://www.physics.byu.edu/faculty/spencer/physics430/ |
| 23:01.52 | brigham | [2004/12/23 11:03:52] <tene> http://www.jabber.org/ |
| 23:01.52 | brigham | [2004/12/22 20:56:11] <santaBot> http://store.apple.com/1-800-780-5009/WebObjects/EducationIndividual.woa/71005/wo/ps5U6eGZrnKD374PejbR9I0XrG7/4.0.11.1.0.6.21.1.1.1.0.0.0.1.0 |
| 23:07.41 | bonez39 | what's that file called...which includes incremental changes...steps, corrections, additions, etc...included with a program...? |
| 23:08.13 | mrpull | yikes. i need some iptables guidance |
| 23:09.02 | mrpull | DNS seems to be working except zone transfers from a master to my server |
| 23:16.54 | Maquis | 'maquis |
| 23:16.55 | brigham | maquis is a budding Linux wizard facing distinct challenges on the path to becoming a grey beard. |
| 23:17.09 | Maquis | yay! i'm a budding linux wizard!!! :) |
| 23:18.23 | byronc | 'byronc |
| 23:18.51 | Maquis | i wonder who set my thing... |
| 23:18.55 | Maquis | 'byronc |
| 23:18.57 | Maquis | hmmm |
| 23:19.08 | Maquis | brigham used to notice things that weren't spoken directly to him |
| 23:19.13 | Maquis | i wonder if i can find out how that happened |
| 23:19.24 | Maquis | (tomorrow... not today) |
| 23:21.07 | xbmodder | Maquis, hey! |
| 23:21.08 | xbmodder | sup |
| 23:21.13 | xbmodder | guess what... |
| 23:21.13 | xbmodder | :) |
| 23:21.28 | xbmodder | i have been offered a job |
| 23:21.35 | macnewbold | by whom? |
| 23:21.37 | xbmodder | time to make myself a resume :) |
| 23:21.38 | macnewbold | doing what? |
| 23:21.41 | xbmodder | my friends dad |
| 23:21.48 | xbmodder | computer work around the office |
| 23:21.59 | xbmodder | he has a bunch of windows workstations :) |
| 23:22.11 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 23:22.33 | Maquis | macnewbold: it used to be that if anyone had any type of statement of the form 'a is b', brigham would remember it |
| 23:22.37 | xbmodder | justin, sup! |
| 23:23.03 | macnewbold | Maquis: has that changed? |
| 23:23.18 | Maquis | macnewbold: well, he didn't remember byronc a second ago |
| 23:23.23 | findlay | how come when I bring up an eth0 device it says it got an IPv4 address, but when I take it down it prints out an IPv6 address? |
| 23:23.32 | Maquis | i'm guessing it's a setting somewhere |
| 23:23.35 | findlay | hey xbmodder |
| 23:23.39 | xbmodder | findlay, sup |
| 23:23.41 | *** join/#utah fluxCap (~lamontp@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 23:23.41 | Maquis | and either hans can tell me where it is, or i can go look for it later... |
| 23:23.48 | Maquis | fluxCap: :) ! |
| 23:24.01 | fluxCap | Maquis: :) ! |
| 23:24.09 | sjansen | findlay: using Debian? |
| 23:24.09 | xbmodder | what happened to IPv5 |
| 23:24.16 | findlay | no Maquis it's a curl inductor! |
| 23:24.36 | findlay | as anyone would know the curl is orthogonal to the flux! |
| 23:24.39 | *** join/#utah beandog (~sdibb@403238C8.ptr.dia.nextlink.net) |
| 23:24.41 | findlay | ! |
| 23:24.57 | beandog | ? |
| 23:25.03 | sjansen | findlay: are you running debian? |
| 23:25.03 | xbmodder | ~lart me |
| 23:25.07 | xbmodder | ~lart ibot |
| 23:25.12 | findlay | sjansen: no, I'm using gentoo, but just built the v6 module(s) for the fun of it |
| 23:25.15 | xbmodder | ~lart brigham |
| 23:25.35 | sjansen | ah, 'cause I've noticed something like that on Ubuntu that is causing problems |
| 23:25.48 | findlay | I haven't been able to see any other indications of v6-ness anywhere else |
| 23:25.54 | findlay | not that I know where to look |
| 23:26.46 | findlay | It made me wonder if there was a standard conversion of v4 addresses into v6 addrs |
| 23:26.52 | findlay | ? |
| 23:27.34 | Maquis | ack!!! |
| 23:27.42 | findlay | because if the ISP's server was back in the silicone age on v4, and I wanted to be hip and have v6, then maybe I could make v6 connections with properly enabled computers |
| 23:27.45 | findlay | syn!!! |
| 23:27.57 | findlay | perhaps that's an oversimplification |
| 23:27.58 | tensai | xbmodder: version 5 never existed. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/3316 |
| 23:28.12 | findlay | running v6 inside of v4 |
| 23:28.35 | findlay | sjansen: what problems have you had? |
| 23:29.01 | sjansen | a ipv6 address is sticking making the interface look active when it isn't |
| 23:29.19 | findlay | oh |
| 23:29.25 | sjansen | And yes, there's a block of the ipv6 space reserved to contain ipv4 addresses. |
| 23:29.51 | beandog | Whats the point of running ipv6 if your router above you doesnt (Comcast in my case) |
| 23:30.11 | beandog | which reminds me ... has anyone else noticed their Comcast cable speed is any faster? |
| 23:30.19 | beandog | I cant tell on mine. |
| 23:30.33 | sjansen | beandog: you can tunnel |
| 23:30.40 | findlay | so beandog, you can't encapsulate v6 in v4? |
| 23:30.44 | findlay | sjansen: OK |
| 23:30.54 | levi | mheath: You around? |
| 23:30.58 | sjansen | In fact, on campus it might just get you an unfiltered connection. |
| 23:31.03 | findlay | But is it completely transparent? |
| 23:31.07 | sjansen | No. |
| 23:31.11 | sjansen | You have to configure it. |
| 23:31.24 | findlay | great |
| 23:31.36 | findlay | sounds like fun |
| 23:31.36 | tensai | I've set it up a few times. not too hard, but not too useful either. at this point anyway. |
| 23:32.07 | findlay | well, there are some gentoo mirrors that are v6 only (the ones mirrorselect keeps picking). |
| 23:32.10 | findlay | (: |
| 23:32.12 | beandog | findlay: I cant even get my router working, dont ask me :D |
| 23:32.41 | findlay | probably because nobody uses them yet |
| 23:32.56 | tensai | you can set up public ipv6 addresses behind an ipv4 nat. that's somewhat useful. |
| 23:33.20 | beandog | my linksys router doesnt support ipv6. the jerks. |
| 23:34.06 | Maquis | ok |
| 23:34.08 | Maquis | crisis averted |
| 23:34.19 | beandog | Maquis: what happened |
| 23:34.29 | Maquis | had to run upstairs to the spanish house to find someone who's doesn't have arachnaphobia |
| 23:34.29 | findlay | Maquis successfully found the saftey valve? |
| 23:34.43 | Maquis | s/arachnaphobia/arachnophobia |
| 23:34.47 | findlay | what's arachnaphobia |
| 23:34.53 | Maquis | it was big and furry |
| 23:34.54 | findlay | ~dict arachnaphobia |
| 23:34.56 | Maquis | and on the wall |
| 23:35.01 | Maquis | findlay: arachnophobia |
| 23:35.04 | tensai | Maquis: what that movie really that popular that everybody in your apartment owns it? |
| 23:35.06 | Maquis | i mistyped it the first time |
| 23:35.18 | findlay | ~dict arachnophobia |
| 23:35.20 | Maquis | |lart tensai |
| 23:35.28 | findlay | ibot: arachnophobia |
| 23:35.32 | Maquis | ~spell arachnophobia |
| 23:35.33 | ibot | 'arachnophobia' may be spelled correctly |
| 23:35.36 | findlay | what's arachnaphobia is big and hairy |
| 23:35.47 | findlay | ibot: arachnaphobia is big and hairy |
| 23:35.48 | ibot | okay, findlay |
| 23:35.48 | Maquis | arachnophobia is fear of spiders |
| 23:36.08 | findlay | darn furry |
| 23:36.12 | findlay | darn fury |
| 23:36.19 | Maquis | big furry nasty spiders |
| 23:36.32 | beandog | are you sure it was furry? |
| 23:36.54 | findlay | anyway, I've got to go do homework elsewhere... Somewhere that IRC cannot find me. |
| 23:37.06 | findlay | ibot: bye |
| 23:37.07 | ibot | bye bye |
| 23:37.38 | hans | tensai: vim scp://marvin//etc/fstab |
| 23:37.48 | hans | 'food |
| 23:37.52 | hans | food is yummy |
| 23:37.54 | hans | 'food |
| 23:37.54 | brigham | food is yummy |
| 23:37.58 | hans | he still does it. |
| 23:38.23 | beandog | hans: you can vim over scp?? |
| 23:38.25 | tensai | hans: what's the difference between ' and |? |
| 23:40.21 | tensai | why does he always disappear when I ask that question? |
| 23:40.31 | tensai | |lart hans |
| 23:40.34 | Jayce^ | might just have it trained for both |
| 23:40.42 | tensai | 'lart hans |
| 23:40.57 | tensai | he behaves differently |
| 23:40.59 | tensai | |food |
| 23:41.08 | hans | | is like brigham, |
| 23:41.21 | hans | ' is a definition query explicit |
| 23:41.24 | hans | |food? |
| 23:41.25 | brigham | food is yummy |
| 23:41.26 | hans | 'food |
| 23:41.27 | brigham | food is yummy |
| 23:41.31 | hans | |food |
| 23:41.35 | tensai | brigham: food |
| 23:41.38 | tensai | brigham: food? |
| 23:41.38 | brigham | food is yummy |
| 23:42.02 | tensai | 'hans |
| 23:42.02 | brigham | hans is My master! or the vimmeister |
| 23:43.37 | Maquis | beandog: yes, i'm sure it was furry |
| 23:44.12 | Maquis | hans: ok |
| 23:44.15 | Maquis | i guess i missed that... |
| 23:45.33 | hans | |roulette |
| 23:45.34 | brigham | hans: chamber 2 of 6 => +click+ |
| 23:46.08 | Maquis | |roulette |
| 23:46.08 | brigham | Maquis: chamber 3 of 6 => +click+ |
| 23:46.51 | tensai | |roulette |
| 23:46.52 | brigham | tensai: chamber 4 of 6 => +click+ |
| 23:47.15 | macnewbold | |roulette |
| 23:47.16 | brigham | macnewbold: chamber 5 of 6 => *BANG* |
| 23:47.20 | macnewbold | doh |
| 23:47.37 | macnewbold | let's get ibot and brigham in a roulette war again :) |
| 23:49.27 | xbmodder | http://www.xbmodder.us/resume.pdf |
| 23:49.31 | xbmodder | my resume |
| 23:50.15 | *** join/#utah uE|bdogg (~bdogg@c-24-2-99-56.client.comcast.net) |
| 23:51.13 | xbmodder | like it? |
| 23:51.14 | brigham | like it is in Linux |
| 23:51.24 | xbmodder | how do you know that? |
| 23:51.28 | hans | |forget like it |
| 23:51.29 | brigham | fine |
| 23:51.41 | xbmodder | thanks |
| 23:51.53 | xbmodder | does amcnabb ever come herE? |
| 23:52.14 | Jayce^ | 'amcnabb |
| 23:52.14 | brigham | amcnabb is cool cuz he uses evilwm! :) |
| 23:52.22 | Jayce^ | ~seen amcnabb |
| 23:52.24 | ibot | amcnabb <~amcnabb@c-67-161-219-228.client.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 4d 23h 56m 25s ago, saying: 'I feel very welcome. Thank you all.'. |
| 23:52.34 | xbmodder | :) |
| 23:52.42 | beandog | xbmodder: 95%?? |
| 23:52.44 | beandog | poopy. |
| 23:52.53 | xbmodder | 95%... where? |
| 23:52.57 | beandog | uptime |
| 23:53.07 | beandog | your resume |
| 23:53.21 | xbmodder | yeah, cause my dad won't invest in friggin static IP |
| 23:53.27 | xbmodder | i was gone |
| 23:53.31 | beandog | Oh. |
| 23:53.36 | beandog | static shmatic |
| 23:53.44 | xbmodder | i was at school, and my server went down |
| 23:53.59 | xbmodder | i was like oooo shit ooo shit ooo shit... in the middle of class |
| 23:54.07 | beandog | hehehe |
| 23:54.12 | beandog | why dont you get a dynamic dns |
| 23:54.19 | xbmodder | i have dynamic DNS |
| 23:54.31 | xbmodder | the thing with PPPoE is that sometimes it will timeout |
| 23:54.35 | xbmodder | randomly |
| 23:54.42 | xbmodder | you have to reboot the modem |
| 23:54.57 | beandog | Ah |
| 23:54.58 | beandog | DSL? |
| 23:55.01 | beandog | Qwest? |
| 23:55.04 | hans | xmission? |
| 23:55.06 | xbmodder | nope, SBC |
| 23:55.10 | beandog | Oh. |
| 23:55.14 | beandog | dsl sucks :) |
| 23:55.24 | hans | but xmission more than offsets it |
| 23:55.26 | xbmodder | better than comcast cable |
| 23:55.34 | tensai | beandog: only if your dsl provider sucks. |
| 23:55.37 | beandog | actually its probably both. |
| 23:55.48 | beandog | tensai: back in the day it did, I had Earthlink. |
| 23:55.52 | beandog | They were poopy. |
| 23:55.55 | hans | you can have linux talk pppoe if your modem will do transparent bridging (and your ISP supports it) |
| 23:55.55 | xbmodder | earthlink suc |
| 23:55.58 | beandog | I hear its much better today, tho. |
| 23:56.10 | xbmodder | yeah |
| 23:56.20 | hans | then you can watch pppd and restart if it crashes |
| 23:56.26 | hans | as for timeouts, pppd will be smart there anyway. |
| 23:56.34 | beandog | does xmission's eula let you run a server? |
| 23:56.40 | hans | heck yes! |
| 23:56.40 | xbmodder | no... the ATM line times out |
| 23:56.45 | xbmodder | which sucks |
| 23:56.46 | xbmodder | :) |
| 23:56.56 | beandog | really? |
| 23:56.57 | hans | ah, so it's not pppoe that's timing out, it's the ATM connection |
| 23:56.59 | beandog | well thats good. |
| 23:57.01 | tensai | beandog: technically it's a TOS not an EULA. and don't use those dirty words in here. |
| 23:57.11 | hans | beandog: static IP without groveling too |
| 23:57.16 | beandog | Hmm |
| 23:57.21 | beandog | do you have to get a qwest line? |
| 23:57.25 | sjansen | ~chastice tensai and beandog |
| 23:57.29 | sjansen | ~chastise tensai and beandog |
| 23:57.31 | hans | yup, that's the only downside |
| 23:57.47 | beandog | Whats the total monthy tho |
| 23:57.54 | beandog | qwest + xmission? |
| 23:57.57 | xbmodder | for some odd reason. Static does not time out |
| 23:57.57 | xbmodder | :) |
| 23:58.49 | hans | beandog: I do 256/256 which is $15. xmission is another $15 iirc |
| 23:59.03 | hans | then add qwest taxes and fees and basic phone |
| 23:59.55 | hans | 1.5/512 is another $10 iirc |