| 00:25.02 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@67-50-102-213.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
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| 03:06.12 | xbmodder_lappy | anyone here? |
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| 03:15.01 | xbmodder_lappy | ~welcome drewbono |
| 03:15.06 | ibot | Howdy drewbono | It is good to see you drewbono | drewbono, Sup yo? |
| 03:15.14 | drewbono | :-) |
| 03:15.58 | xbmodder_lappy | sup |
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| 05:42.45 | xbmodder_lappy | hey utanian |
| 06:27.07 | goozbach | "don't verb or antropormorphize words... they don't like it." |
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| 06:49.34 | xbmodder | hey |
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| 06:57.19 | *** topic/#utah by spr -> The source for OSS focused communication in Utah. Check out plug.org, uug.byu.edu, sllug.org, etc. |
| 07:18.55 | Maquis | ~lart roommates |
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| 07:45.15 | xbmodder | hahaha |
| 07:45.17 | xbmodder | Maquis, sup |
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| 08:48.38 | tene | anyone here done pvr in linux? |
| 08:48.43 | tene | i.e. mythtv/freevo? |
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| 09:46.54 | spiderbiter | Any PHP gurus awake? |
| 09:46.56 | spiderbiter | what is the best way to test for this condition? |
| 09:46.57 | spiderbiter | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:46.59 | spiderbiter | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:47.00 | spiderbiter | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:47.02 | spiderbiter | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:07.09 | levi-treo | Anyone around? |
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| 17:16.15 | levi-treo | Hello? |
| 17:16.29 | JoshH | hello there. |
| 17:16.56 | levi-treo | Ah, life! |
| 17:17.05 | levi-treo | What's up? |
| 17:17.19 | JoshH | just barely getting up, checking email, etc |
| 17:18.14 | levi-treo | I'm attempting to stay awake in sunday school. |
| 17:18.27 | JoshH | hah. good luck with that. |
| 17:19.05 | levi-treo | That's what IRC is for! |
| 17:19.10 | JoshH | a treo in church... thats a clever way to cure the boredom i guess. |
| 17:19.16 | JoshH | do they allow laptops in there? |
| 17:19.37 | JoshH | i would imagine they probably dont have wireless anyway actually... |
| 17:19.45 | levi-treo | Now we just need a couple more people and a good flamewar... |
| 17:20.12 | JoshH | i would bet that the vast majority of #utahns are also in church, heh |
| 17:20.43 | levi-treo | Actually, there is wireless in the bldg., but I don't know if it'd reach here. |
| 17:21.24 | levi-treo | You'd probably get funny looks with a laptop. :) |
| 17:21.41 | levi-treo | mhheath: somewhat? |
| 17:21.46 | JoshH | me and church do not mix |
| 17:21.55 | JoshH | i would be like homer simpson and start snoring |
| 17:22.28 | JoshH | mheath: are you saying you worship buddha? |
| 17:22.45 | mheath | JoshH: no. Buddhism != Worshiping Buddha |
| 17:22.51 | levi-treo | I only snore when I lean back, so I have to be a little careful. |
| 17:22.58 | JoshH | heh, i know... |
| 17:23.14 | JoshH | lol |
| 17:23.35 | levi-treo | Buddhism is seeking the Buddha nature. :) |
| 17:23.58 | mheath | levi-treo: I say "somewhat" beause I agree with their teachings more than any other religion, but I'm not active in following some of it, and I'm still confused about some of the concepts |
| 17:24.16 | JoshH | you just need to meditate more |
| 17:24.20 | JoshH | then it will become clear |
| 17:25.04 | levi-treo | I read the Book of Buddha or whatever it's called. Very interesting. |
| 17:25.21 | mheath | I've always had problems with faith based religions.... |
| 17:25.45 | mheath | I was Mormon growing up, until I was about 13 |
| 17:25.52 | JoshH | religion in general just isn't my bag. i figure if there is a god and an afterlife, we will find out when we die. until then, i dont worry about it. i have a hard time believing in the concept of a "one true church", because every church believes it is the true one. |
| 17:26.12 | mheath | JoshH: you might like Budhism, still. |
| 17:26.19 | mheath | Budhism doesn't disagree or clash with any of those views. |
| 17:26.41 | JoshH | ya but i dont feel a need to try out different faiths or anything |
| 17:26.59 | mheath | I'm not pressuring you, jusy mentioning it :) |
| 17:27.12 | JoshH | im not an atheist though, im open minded. |
| 17:27.38 | levi-treo | Buddhism seems more like a philosophy and lifestyle than a religion in the same sense as Christianity. |
| 17:27.44 | JoshH | ya i understand |
| 17:27.45 | mheath | Yeah |
| 17:28.00 | JoshH | ive gotten to know a few buddhists online |
| 17:28.05 | JoshH | from india |
| 17:28.16 | mheath | Actually, the way most Westerners view the concept of "Religion", it's not even really a religion; |
| 17:28.22 | levi-treo | I'd like to learn more about Hinduism. |
| 17:30.28 | levi-treo | I wish I could type faster on this thing. |
| 17:30.38 | mheath | Heh. |
| 17:30.41 | mheath | Get a keyboard. |
| 17:30.54 | mheath | Anyone know if Slackware 10's bare.i kernel supports USB HID? |
| 17:31.02 | JoshH | yes it does |
| 17:31.40 | JoshH | well |
| 17:31.43 | JoshH | let me doublecheck |
| 17:31.57 | mheath | I think all these problems I'm having on gentoo are related to my USE settings.. |
| 17:32.04 | JoshH | yes, its a module |
| 17:32.09 | JoshH | here is the bare.i config |
| 17:32.13 | JoshH | ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-10.0/kernels/bare.i/config |
| 17:32.36 | mheath | Heh, I'd like to view that, but unfortunately I have no web browser or FTP client |
| 17:32.48 | JoshH | wget? |
| 17:32.51 | levi-treo | Silly gentoo users. |
| 17:32.52 | mheath | Because gentoo keeps erroring out when I try to emerge them |
| 17:33.05 | mheath | Ah, I do have wget. Sorry, I'm not thinking...its a bit too early. |
| 17:33.11 | JoshH | heh |
| 17:34.15 | JoshH | ya i cant imagine why people like gentoo so much either |
| 17:34.42 | JoshH | if you think a source based system is the way to go, you should try freebsd |
| 17:34.45 | mheath | I'm almost certain its my USE. I've installed gentoo flawlessly before with a much more conservative USE |
| 17:34.49 | JoshH | if you like binaries, you should use debian |
| 17:35.04 | JoshH | if you like simplicity, you should use slack |
| 17:35.08 | JoshH | imo, of course :) |
| 17:35.55 | JoshH | well, because of how many packages they have that all must work together according to their policy, it has to be complicated |
| 17:36.11 | mheath | No, its not the packages |
| 17:36.19 | mheath | I haven't used many of the packages, so I can't complain about that |
| 17:36.24 | mheath | Its the tools, the system....ugh. |
| 17:36.37 | JoshH | hmm |
| 17:36.53 | mheath | I don't really care for FreeBSD's ports. |
| 17:37.02 | JoshH | honestly i think debian is something that grows on you. it took me a long time to like it as much as i like slack. |
| 17:37.24 | mheath | It's not very clean, not very efficient. I'd like to see more people using Gar-Ports. |
| 17:37.27 | JoshH | i would use slack and i loved how everything was so simple |
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| 17:37.38 | JoshH | and debian seemed.... meh |
| 17:37.57 | JoshH | but after a while i just realized that apt was so convenient |
| 17:38.12 | mheath | I have yet to find a Linux distro that does what I want |
| 17:38.14 | levi-treo | I loved Debian from back when I first used it. |
| 17:38.32 | mheath | That is, a quick, easy to install Desktop distro that includes the latest Gnome, and all the programs I use. |
| 17:38.35 | JoshH | no linux distro does what i want completely. debian comes the closest. |
| 17:38.59 | JoshH | mheath: debian includes the latest gnome, and any programs you want im sure. |
| 17:39.07 | JoshH | why dont you like freebsd ports though? |
| 17:39.10 | mheath | JoshH: again, I hate their package management system. |
| 17:39.23 | mheath | FreeBSD's ports is unclean and horribly inefficient |
| 17:39.28 | JoshH | unclean how? |
| 17:39.35 | mheath | Just, the way it's written. |
| 17:39.49 | levi-treo | It does exactly what I want, which is to keep my system reasonably up to date without much effort and to allow me to easily add and remove software. |
| 17:39.50 | JoshH | hmm. well, i think its nice because it has everything, even more than debian actually. |
| 17:39.55 | mheath | Pmake itself is OK, but take a look at the core Makefiles |
| 17:40.06 | mheath | The one that all the other builds include |
| 17:40.15 | mheath | I don't care for it. |
| 17:40.15 | JoshH | whats bad about it? |
| 17:40.20 | JoshH | heh. |
| 17:40.29 | mheath | Not efficient. Not written too well. Not clean |
| 17:40.36 | mheath | Not extensible.. |
| 17:40.49 | mheath | I'd like to see a widespread adoption of Gar Ports |
| 17:41.11 | mheath | (Very similar to FreeBSD's ports in functionality, but uses GNU Make instead of BSD PMake) |
| 17:41.12 | JoshH | never heard of gar ports |
| 17:41.45 | JoshH | i have bsd make and gmake |
| 17:41.47 | levi-treo | Most people don't want extreme configurability. |
| 17:42.04 | JoshH | anything that needs gmake to build will use it |
| 17:42.17 | mheath | JoshH: No! |
| 17:42.25 | mheath | The CORE of FreeBSD's ports uses pmake! |
| 17:42.51 | mheath | A minimalistic port just 1) Sets some variables and 2) Includes the core, system wide makefiles |
| 17:43.20 | mheath | Those core, systm wide makefiles take those variables (URLs, names of files, information on how to build, etc) and parses them, building and installing the software |
| 17:44.23 | mheath | Those core files are pmake makefiles |
| 17:44.33 | levi-treo | Does it handle dependancies when removing software? |
| 17:45.16 | mheath | FreeBSD's ports? I don't remember. |
| 17:45.29 | levi-treo | My favoriye thing about Debian is that I never have to reinstall. |
| 17:45.43 | mheath | You shouldn't have to reinstall any Linux distro. |
| 17:45.54 | JoshH | pkg_delete -r does remove dependencies |
| 17:46.37 | JoshH | you can remove a package without removing the dependencies if you want. |
| 17:46.40 | levi-treo | But you do with a lot of them, if you want to upgrade to a new major release. |
| 17:47.21 | levi-treo | Well, maybe other distros are better now. |
| 17:47.25 | JoshH | from what i hear, trying to upgrade fedora core releases without reinstalling is just asking for breakage |
| 17:47.27 | mheath | You don't have to with *BSD, Slackware, Fedora, Debian, Gentoo, ... |
| 17:47.38 | mheath | JoshH: nah. |
| 17:47.44 | mheath | One thing I hate about Fedora, though... |
| 17:47.54 | mheath | Their package management system. |
| 17:48.04 | mheath | Don't get me wrong, RPMs are great |
| 17:48.05 | levi-treo | I started using Debian when the only other options were slack and redhat. |
| 17:48.19 | mheath | But their meant for controlling and maintaing the building of software, not distrobuting it. |
| 17:49.01 | levi-treo | Redhat would break horribly if you tried to upgrade. |
| 17:49.09 | mheath | Eh? |
| 17:49.15 | mheath | Redhat includes an auto update tool. |
| 17:49.23 | JoshH | its not that dpkg is necessarily better than rpm, its just that debian simply has so much stuff in their official repository, that meets their policies and qa standards, and its all easy to install. |
| 17:50.10 | mheath | JoshH: debians package format is great (its mainly the tools I have a problem with), except their files are all text based and tricky to parse |
| 17:50.35 | JoshH | red hat used to be a decent distro, if you could tolerate the rpm hell. but fedora, imo, is horrible. |
| 17:50.35 | levi-treo | mheath: It didn't originally. |
| 17:51.05 | JoshH | every release has had huge bugs that would be showstoppers in any other distro |
| 17:51.35 | mheath | another bad thing about debians package format: The really *odd* way they pack everything into the archive |
| 17:51.40 | JoshH | fc1 wouldnt even install in graphical mode on my radeon 9800 |
| 17:51.47 | JoshH | or any recent radeon |
| 17:52.15 | JoshH | mheath: see, i just think that complaints of that nature are quite minor, from a user point of view. |
| 17:52.27 | mheath | Redhat 9 on my Rage 128 never worked |
| 17:52.42 | JoshH | i mean, when i am happily installing tons of packages, the last thing i care about it is how the files are packed into the archive |
| 17:53.17 | levi-treo | mheath: You have no perspective on this. |
| 17:53.55 | mheath | JoshH: One of my projects way back when was a package management tool capable of installing RPMs, Debs, parsing FreeBSD's ports, Tgz, and seveal other formats (This was all a couple years ago) |
| 17:54.07 | mheath | I'm not looking at this all from just a user point of view |
| 17:54.25 | mheath | I'm looking at problems I have with package formats from a developer point of view. |
| 17:54.54 | mheath | levi-treo: why is that? |
| 17:55.17 | levi-treo | Yeah, but you haven't seen the 10 years of evolution that has brought things to their current state. |
| 17:55.33 | mheath | 10 years of evolution? |
| 17:55.53 | mheath | The only things in that list that have been around that long is Slackware's Tgz. |
| 17:56.01 | mheath | And it hasn't changed a bit. |
| 17:56.22 | mheath | Er, wait.... |
| 17:58.42 | levi-treo | I didn't say they'd all been aroumd that long. |
| 17:59.03 | mheath | I know RPM made improvements to the meta information, changed the format of it... |
| 17:59.05 | mheath | Nothing too big |
| 17:59.21 | mheath | Debs, I'm not really familiar with them. |
| 18:00.58 | mheath | But I still don't like them :) |
| 18:01.43 | levi-treo | I first installed Debian in 95 or 96. That same system could still be running and up to date today without a reinstall. |
| 18:04.14 | JoshH | yep |
| 18:04.37 | JoshH | you can even install woody today, and upgrade to sid and it would work perfectly. |
| 18:04.58 | JoshH | try upgrading from a fresh fc1 to the fc3 with all the updates |
| 18:05.06 | JoshH | it aint happening. |
| 18:09.23 | JoshH | debian may have "a horrid package manager with the files packed into the archive in a terrible way", but look. it works. :) |
| 18:15.05 | levi-treo | Indeed. And it's been working far longer than any of the new whizbang things. |
| 18:15.34 | mheath | Guess what, though... |
| 18:15.40 | mheath | I could install slackware 2.x |
| 18:15.56 | mheath | and in one step upgrade to slackware-10.0 or even slackware-current. |
| 18:17.05 | levi-treo | Dude, slackware sucks for upgrades across big changes like exec file formats or big libc changes, etc. |
| 18:18.21 | levi-treo | You won't understand because you weren't using it back when the base kernel and libraries of Linux were in flux. |
| 18:19.44 | levi-treo | I used slack after SLS, which doesn't exist anymore. |
| 18:20.27 | levi-treo | It was about the same at the time, though. |
| 18:26.35 | fozz | levi-treo: 600 or 650? |
| 18:27.03 | levi-treo | 600 |
| 18:27.18 | fozz | What provider? |
| 18:27.35 | levi-treo | Sprint |
| 18:28.10 | fozz | I'm going to be getting a 650 soon. Debating whether to stay with Verizon (they'll haev the 650 in the next month) or switch to Sprint. |
| 18:29.41 | levi-treo | They're both using the same cell tech. I'd look at plan rates and new customer discounts on the phone. |
| 18:30.22 | fozz | Sprint has lower rates and better share plans. |
| 18:30.39 | fozz | But Verizon's going to be deploying their super-fast broadband access soon. |
| 18:31.04 | fozz | OTOH, I don't know that I need more than 50-70kbps from my phone/pda. :) |
| 18:31.37 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 18:31.38 | fozz | I used to dream of doing system administration tasks from the bathroom at Fred Meyer. :) |
| 18:31.58 | fozz | Wanted one of those CPDP springboards for my Visor. |
| 18:34.36 | levi-treo | Well, I think Sprint's service is fast enough for PDA needs. |
| 18:35.00 | levi-treo | And they'll likely get higher speed before too long. |
| 18:35.39 | levi-treo | If you can get a cheaper plan/phone by switching, I'd say go for it. |
| 18:37.15 | levi-treo | irc is surprisingly usable on this. |
| 18:37.54 | levi-treo | The 650 should be even better w/its better keypad. |
| 18:39.15 | mheath | I'll be back in a little while. |
| 18:42.17 | levi-treo | So quiet now. |
| 18:42.33 | JoshH | the eagles/vikes game is on |
| 18:42.59 | levi-treo | Bah. :) |
| 18:45.32 | levi-treo | Well, I'm going to log off then. Later! |
| 18:45.33 | JoshH | heh |
| 18:45.45 | JoshH | the on-field action takes precedence over irc today |
| 19:13.22 | xbmodder | hey! |
| 19:13.42 | xbmodder | mheasucks |
| 19:13.46 | xbmodder | mheath sucks |
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| 19:20.44 | *** join/#utah ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 19:20.44 | *** mode/#utah [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 19:54.04 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@c-67-161-213-34.client.comcast.net) |
| 19:54.14 | mheath | Mmm. Back in slackware. |
| 19:54.27 | mheath | Took me a while to install, I kept getting distracted. |
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| 20:12.25 | bdogg | anyone here have a server at xmission |
| 20:12.27 | bdogg | fragfarm? |
| 20:13.49 | mheath | Rebooting into 2.6..be right back. |
| 20:17.16 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@c-67-161-213-34.client.comcast.net) |
| 20:20.13 | mheath | Mmm. Nice. |
| 20:41.44 | fozz | bdogg: I have several servers at XM. |
| 20:53.52 | mheath | Does anyone here use Comcast's SMTP to relay e-mail from a local mail server? |
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| 21:23.42 | Maquis | ~lart spr |
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| 21:49.47 | levi-treo | Yo. |
| 21:50.22 | emcnabb | Yo |
| 21:50.51 | jsmith | What, #utah is a bunch of yo-yos? |
| 21:50.55 | levi-treo | Wassup? |
| 21:51.30 | levi-treo | No, just yos. |
| 21:55.41 | levi-treo | Pretty exciting place here. |
| 21:56.04 | levi-treo | Nap time, I guess. |
| 22:00.05 | Maquis | stupid loud people... |
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| 22:33.53 | xbmodder | ? |
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| 22:35.31 | xbmodder | Kakalto, sup |
| 22:35.34 | xbmodder | its me! |
| 22:35.40 | Kakalto | hea |
| 22:35.42 | Kakalto | *heya |
| 22:36.05 | Kakalto | I'm nowhere near utah |
| 22:36.08 | Kakalto | :P |
| 23:04.49 | bdogg | fozz run away? |
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| 23:18.18 | Maquis | ~lart hans |
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