| 00:00.52 | sjansen | ~silence findlay |
| 00:00.54 | ibot | ACTION shoves an apple in findlay's mouth, shoves an spear through ... well, uhm, anyway ... then builds a nice fire and starts roasting |
| 00:14.39 | erj | man usu is having network fun today |
| 00:15.32 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (~ecs@ecs-dell.byu.edu) |
| 00:27.19 | sjansen | ~celebrate |
| 00:27.20 | ibot | ACTION detonates a small nuclear device to celebrate the end of the world |
| 00:27.42 | *** join/#utah amcnabb_ (~amcnabb@c-67-161-219-228.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:29.09 | mheath | Bah, this new keyboard is hard to get used to |
| 00:29.12 | goozbach | no you didn't |
| 00:33.14 | sjansen | man, avoiding gender while writing examples is a pain |
| 00:33.36 | goozbach | sjansen: alt-tab doesn't count |
| 00:36.18 | dataw0lf | MX1000 fope lyfe. |
| 00:42.51 | sjansen | NX1001 rope flyght |
| 00:47.56 | xbmodder | ? |
| 00:48.01 | xbmodder | ~lart sjansen |
| 00:48.22 | xbmodder | ohaiyo gozaimas |
| 00:48.23 | xbmodder | ! |
| 00:50.52 | sjansen | ohio art etcha sketch |
| 00:53.59 | *** join/#utah synic|w (~synic@66.239.17.228.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 01:21.40 | findlay | IRC: where emcnabb ... um ... something |
| 01:23.37 | synic|w | and stuff? |
| 01:25.55 | sjansen | definetly stuff |
| 01:26.01 | mheath | xbmodder: actually, I have a question related to that |
| 01:26.52 | mheath | I was told by my friend and teacher who knows Japanese moderately well (Used to teach English in Japan :D ) that ohayo was mainly a morning greeting |
| 01:27.21 | mheath | But these videos I'm watching for this online Japanese class makes it sound like its more of a general greeting, apropriate any time |
| 01:27.24 | mheath | Which is it? |
| 01:29.05 | mheath | Agh! When did gentoo change this?! |
| 01:29.13 | goozbach | tomorrow |
| 01:29.22 | mheath | Used to be that their portage snapshots were setup to extract in / |
| 01:29.33 | mheath | Now you have to extract them in /usr |
| 01:30.58 | mheath | These movies seem a bit inaccurate and tend to generalize a lot of stuff |
| 01:31.13 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@67-50-102-213.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 01:33.15 | findlay | gentoo does too allow you to do boot disks |
| 01:36.58 | findlay | ~irc |
| 01:36.59 | ibot | [irc] Internet Relay Chat or help can be found here http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/altircfaq.html |
| 01:37.21 | findlay | ibot: irc is also where emcnabb something and stuff |
| 01:37.22 | ibot | okay, findlay |
| 01:37.30 | findlay | ~irc |
| 01:37.31 | ibot | i heard irc is Internet Relay Chat or help can be found here http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/altircfaq.html, or where emcnabb something and stuff |
| 01:43.52 | bucky | ~iirc |
| 01:43.53 | ibot | well, iirc is "if I recall correctly" |
| 01:46.00 | scott_ | hehe, I joined #macosx yesterday and today when I connected to screen I didn't notice I was still there, so I was surprised to see so many new faces |
| 01:46.37 | scott_ | I asked a question about SQL earlier this afternoon and everyone looked at me funny but I didn't realize I was over there until just now (I hadn't been chatting or even connected to screen very much) |
| 01:51.18 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@sorenson.dsl.csolutions.net) |
| 01:57.35 | *** join/#utah sjansen-treo (~upirc@032-319-495.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 01:57.54 | Maquis | ~flog sjansen-treo |
| 01:57.56 | ibot | ACTION hog-ties sjansen-treo and starts the heavy punishment with a cat-o-nine-tails. |
| 01:58.09 | SpecialK | ~lart Maquis |
| 01:58.21 | Maquis | ~lart SpecialK |
| 01:58.47 | sjansen-treo | sshhh, don't tell gooz I'm driving |
| 02:01.27 | Newsome | hmm, getting some power fluctuations here |
| 02:01.51 | byronc | Newsome: I'm seeing those also |
| 02:02.26 | Newsome | okay, scratch the idea of running some extension cords from byronc's place to mine... |
| 02:09.55 | goozbach | shame sjansen-treo |
| 02:10.08 | goozbach | irc'ing while driving |
| 02:10.46 | Maquis | sjansen-treo: don't kill yourself... |
| 02:10.51 | sjansen-treo | stupid laundry |
| 02:10.57 | Maquis | (or anyone else, for that matter) |
| 02:11.16 | Maquis | sjansen-treo: i agree... speaking of which, i wonder if i have any clothes to wear tomorrow..... |
| 02:11.54 | goozbach | a half-hour to get home? I doubt it |
| 02:36.50 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 02:54.00 | amcnabb_ | Has anyone noticed pam_env.conf acting strangely? I think it's recent, but maybe I just haven't noticed it. It's resetting $DISPLAY, overwriting ssh's X Forwarding DISPLAY. |
| 02:55.19 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@c-24-2-80-26.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:56.16 | Maquis | ~flog emcnabb |
| 02:56.19 | ibot | ACTION hog-ties emcnabb and starts the heavy punishment with a cat-o-nine-tails. |
| 02:56.39 | emcnabb | ouch |
| 02:56.49 | goozbach | ~flog goozbach |
| 02:56.51 | ibot | ACTION hog-ties goozbach and starts the heavy punishment with a cat-o-nine-tails. |
| 02:56.56 | goozbach | oh wait |
| 03:13.58 | *** join/#utah Mecworks (~marc@208.186.182.173) |
| 03:15.06 | Mecworks | stupid power outtage ruined a perfectly good 440+ day uptime. |
| 03:22.49 | mheath | Mecworks: ah, that sucks |
| 03:23.38 | mheath | "O genki deshou ka" <-- You said that to me this morning, after I left. I'm just learning Japanese, could you tell me what it means? |
| 03:26.18 | mheath | Isn't genki like..my health/welness? |
| 03:26.31 | mheath | I mean, are you inquiring about my health/wellness? |
| 03:27.45 | Mecworks | It means "are you doing well" literaly translated, it means are you happy or healthy |
| 03:27.58 | Mecworks | O is honorific. |
| 03:28.16 | Mecworks | deshou is desu but a "softer" way of saying it. |
| 03:28.35 | mheath | "softer"? What do you mean, exactly? |
| 03:28.48 | Mecworks | So, it's the same as saying "genki desu ka?" but more polite. |
| 03:28.56 | mheath | Ah, politeness. |
| 03:29.00 | Mecworks | softer = more polite |
| 03:29.03 | Mecworks | yup |
| 03:29.16 | Mecworks | so desu. |
| 03:29.32 | Mecworks | where are you studying Japanese? |
| 03:29.44 | mheath | Mecworks: doomo. Hai, O genki deshou ka? |
| 03:29.58 | Mecworks | Hi, genki desu. Arigatou. |
| 03:30.10 | mheath | Right now, online. Utah has an "Electronic Highschool" where you can get highschool credit by completing online classes |
| 03:30.30 | Mecworks | cool. Japanese is a great language to learn. |
| 03:30.35 | mheath | However, a good friend and teacher of mine (currently my Comp Sci teacher) may start teaching some after school classes |
| 03:31.09 | mheath | Yes, that it is :) |
| 03:31.49 | mheath | I'm hoping to go to Okinawa this summer |
| 03:31.52 | mheath | to visit a friend |
| 03:32.02 | Mecworks | nice. nice to have a good tutor if you can. The hardest part is the vocabulary (no latin roots so nothing to really associate with english like you can with Spanish for example). The grammer is simple and fairly cookie cutter - not many exeptions, etc.. |
| 03:32.34 | mheath | Yeah, the vocabulary is really odd |
| 03:32.39 | mheath | I'm having trouble remembering words |
| 03:32.50 | Mecworks | Never been to Okinawa. I have some friends that were from there. I've been to Tokyo, Nagoya, Hokuriku, Kyoto and a bunch of small towns here and there. |
| 03:33.03 | Mecworks | right. That's difficult. |
| 03:33.21 | mheath | I mostly remember them, but frequently forget part of their pronounciation |
| 03:33.40 | Maquis | mheath: just wait til you start writing |
| 03:33.51 | Maquis | you'll know the general idea of what the character looks like |
| 03:33.53 | mheath | I meant to say "dewa" and almost said "denwa" when I was talking to my teacher |
| 03:34.01 | Maquis | but there'll be some silly part that you can't remember... |
| 03:34.04 | mheath | Very silly mix up :) |
| 03:34.56 | mheath | That teachers awesome |
| 03:35.12 | Mecworks | mheath, that happens all the time...don't sweat it... |
| 03:35.24 | mheath | He served a LDS mission on korea, so he's fluent in Korean....then spent some in Japan teaching English |
| 03:35.48 | Mecworks | ningen/ninjin = person/carrot |
| 03:36.12 | Maquis | Mecworks: mheath: at least it's not tonal |
| 03:36.23 | mheath | So it's moderately fluent in Japanese.....His wife is Japanese...I'm always looking for an opportunity to sample her home cooking, which he has every day for lunch |
| 03:36.37 | Maquis | ma(first tone)=mother, ma(third tone)=horse..... |
| 03:36.40 | Mecworks | Maquis, yes, that's nice. |
| 03:37.08 | Maquis | "ma ma ma ma ma" == "did mother scold the horse?" |
| 03:37.10 | Mecworks | mheath, Japanese food, IMO, is the best... |
| 03:37.18 | Mecworks | 8^) |
| 03:37.37 | Maquis | it's one of our favorite sentences... you can't do that in many languages... |
| 03:37.51 | Mecworks | 8^) |
| 03:37.54 | mheath | Mecworks: just a random question, (this will seem like an odd question)...If I said the word "boshi" what would you think I meant? (Sorry, I don't know anything but the roomanji for it) |
| 03:38.05 | Mecworks | hat |
| 03:38.16 | mheath | That's bushi, isn't it? |
| 03:38.24 | Mecworks | boshi == hat |
| 03:38.31 | Mecworks | bushi == ??? |
| 03:39.10 | goozbach | wow it's late |
| 03:39.13 | mheath | Er, sorry, Hat == boushi |
| 03:39.18 | goozbach | maybe I should go home |
| 03:39.20 | Maquis | goozbach: ummmm... |
| 03:39.23 | Maquis | oh... right |
| 03:39.30 | Maquis | you're off in florida... |
| 03:39.32 | mheath | boshi :)] |
| 03:39.34 | Mecworks | k. Yea, you're probably right. |
| 03:39.37 | Maquis | ~lart goozbach for being in florida |
| 03:39.52 | Maquis | ~lart goozbach for being in a warm climate |
| 03:39.55 | Mecworks | the long o sound still gets me... 8^) |
| 03:40.05 | Maquis | ~lart goozbach for existing |
| 03:40.24 | mheath | And everyone seems to misinterpret it as "hat" |
| 03:40.45 | mheath | I believe boshi == the tip of a sword |
| 03:40.47 | goozbach | I |
| 03:40.55 | goozbach | am in bountiful |
| 03:41.05 | goozbach | florida is next week |
| 03:41.26 | mheath | Hmm. Should I do a job shadow thing for highschool? Gets me out of school for a bit... |
| 03:41.48 | Mecworks | depends on the job I'd guess... |
| 03:41.50 | goozbach | I had work-relase for three periods my senior year |
| 03:42.01 | goozbach | it was nice |
| 03:42.05 | mheath | Mecworks: heh, that's part of the question |
| 03:42.10 | goozbach | the cool thing was the job |
| 03:42.12 | mheath | I don't know which job I'd shadow :) |
| 03:42.38 | goozbach | I was network admin at the school district |
| 03:42.46 | goozbach | (the west side anyhow) |
| 03:42.59 | mheath | goozbach: our school district won't hire students as network admins |
| 03:43.13 | mheath | And our network admins are incompetent. I used to respect them, I no longer do. |
| 03:43.29 | mheath | Our schools main server uses Redhat 9 |
| 03:43.44 | mheath | And, for some odd reason (They've fixed this a *bit* this year) has frequent down times |
| 03:44.02 | mheath | They have to reimage entire computer labs every couple of weeks |
| 03:45.16 | goozbach | mheath: it may just be some of the stuff I never got 'caught' doing |
| 03:45.30 | goozbach | policy has changed quite a bit since then |
| 03:45.53 | mheath | Our network policy is amazingly strict |
| 03:46.14 | mheath | They log everything, they can at any time view what you're doing (And frequently do this to random people..) |
| 03:46.20 | mheath | All the websites you access are logged |
| 03:46.31 | mheath | All the program filenames you run are logged |
| 03:47.00 | mheath | I almost got in trouble for downloading a copy of firefox (The .zip version, not the install version...no admin privs) and running it |
| 03:47.44 | mheath | Heh, I love their filtering system... |
| 03:47.47 | goozbach | two words, knop pix |
| 03:48.06 | mheath | A website I was trying to view got blocked today. "REASON: ENTERTAINMENT/FUN" |
| 03:48.09 | mheath | Fun is not allowed here! |
| 03:48.23 | goozbach | where do you go to school? |
| 03:48.31 | mheath | goozbach: all of the bios are password locked |
| 03:48.38 | mheath | and have booting from CD-ROM disabled |
| 03:48.47 | mheath | goozbach: Bonneville High School in Ogden |
| 03:48.57 | goozbach | that's where you gank a mac address with your own system |
| 03:49.26 | mheath | And still... |
| 03:49.41 | mheath | Most of the filtering is done on the router and server level |
| 03:49.53 | mheath | They'd notice something suspicous |
| 03:50.13 | mheath | Particullary if I didn't securely tunnel all my stuff |
| 03:50.16 | goozbach | the monitoring stuff wouldn't be running, and if they allow an outbound ssh connection, you'r home fre |
| 03:50.26 | goozbach | *free |
| 03:51.00 | mheath | I think almost everything outbound is blocked |
| 03:51.11 | goozbach | sorry, I just miss the mischevious, getting-around-the-idiot-admins days |
| 03:51.36 | goozbach | I get to do it on occasion, different training centers and all that |
| 03:51.47 | *** join/#utah mrpull_ (~mrpull_@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:52.04 | Maquis | hmmm... |
| 03:52.18 | Maquis | the cs dept admins aren't idiots, and i'm not exactly sure how one would go about getting around them... |
| 03:52.24 | mheath | One of our admins thinks that routers are only useful for allowing a subnet to access the internet |
| 03:53.36 | mheath | One of our labs has it's own subnet (all the boxes have external IPs, none the less..) I was just talking to him, asked him if they had the lab hooked up to a router, or on a switch connected to the schools main router |
| 03:53.59 | mheath | He just looks up at me, a confused look on his face... "You only need routers when you're connecting to the WAN or Internet." |
| 03:54.40 | brailsmt | or a hub connected to the router, that is VPN'd to another network... |
| 03:54.51 | brailsmt | start asking him about NAT |
| 03:55.08 | brailsmt | ask if he has ever been riding his bike and eaten one |
| 03:55.16 | brailsmt | :D |
| 03:55.16 | mheath | Hahah. |
| 03:55.23 | mheath | Hard to get used to, though |
| 03:55.34 | mheath | Seems like you get attached to your keyboard. Used to it. Develop a preference for it |
| 03:55.38 | mheath | Or maybe that's just me. |
| 03:55.50 | brailsmt | definately just you... |
| 03:56.03 | brailsmt | i have more an affinity for my trackball than my keyboard :) |
| 03:56.12 | mheath | It's wireless, too! I'm on the otherside of the room from my tower :) |
| 03:56.40 | mheath | I want to get a TV, and mount it up in the corner of my room...Then, split my video so it goes to my monitor and the TV |
| 03:56.56 | mheath | What kind of job? |
| 03:57.30 | brailsmt | mheath: anything at intel would be better than my current job... |
| 03:57.38 | mheath | I wouldn't mind working with intel eventually |
| 03:57.47 | brailsmt | say garbage collection for one... |
| 03:57.54 | brailsmt | anyone, gotta go... |
| 03:58.06 | brailsmt | this responsible adult thing is boring... :D |
| 03:58.12 | goozbach | agreed |
| 03:58.18 | mheath | Wonder if Intel would have a use for that :) |
| 03:58.27 | goozbach | I failed a responible adult thing this week |
| 03:58.37 | goozbach | stupid super-overdraft |
| 04:08.43 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@da001d1175.cam-ma.osd.concentric.net) |
| 04:10.25 | *** part/#utah mrpull_ (~mrpull_@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:10.41 | *** join/#utah sjansen-treo (~upirc@032-334-403.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 04:10.43 | *** join/#utah mrpull_ (~mrpull_@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:11.20 | sjansen-treo | just got home and have no power :-( |
| 04:11.59 | *** part/#utah mrpull_ (~mrpull_@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:12.16 | sjansen-treo | just a block away they do |
| 04:12.24 | goozbach | I have yet to get home |
| 04:12.39 | goozbach | yup, still sitting where you left me |
| 04:13.49 | sjansen-treo | that no way to get healthy again |
| 04:17.47 | goozbach | blame it on OOTS |
| 04:17.55 | goozbach | Order of the Stick |
| 04:19.44 | *** join/#utah minam (~jgb3@c-67-166-99-64.client.comcast.net) |
| 04:22.10 | tensai | mheath: bushi is a samurai. bushido is the samurai code. |
| 04:23.13 | mheath | tensai: eh, I'm not sure as that |
| 04:23.17 | mheath | *of that |
| 04:23.32 | tensai | mheath: you can always run your ssh server on port 53. just looks like a looong name query. |
| 04:24.08 | mheath | We were looking it up......only really tranlates as the tip of a sword, or "mother and child", or "epitaph"...according to some dictionaries we looked in |
| 04:24.10 | tensai | I am. I've never heard bushi used, but it shows up in my dictionary. bushido is used quite a lot. |
| 04:24.18 | mheath | and my teacher |
| 04:24.30 | mheath | Yeah, I'm familiar with bushido |
| 04:24.55 | mheath | Hehe, it's one of the passwords to our Yearbook server at school :) |
| 04:25.03 | tensai | well, the do in bushido means "path" or "way". bushi means samurai. together they mean the way of the samurai. |
| 04:25.55 | mheath | Heh, not on the internet |
| 04:26.15 | mheath | Our network techs don't allow Mac's on the network because they "create problems" |
| 04:26.34 | mheath | Infact, our network techs literally sneak into the school during the summer and attempt to take whatever Mac's they can find |
| 04:26.44 | mheath | Almost took the ones used by Yearbook and Video Production last summer |
| 04:27.46 | mheath | tensai: oh, by the way |
| 04:27.52 | tensai | you think I can't hack into it just because it doesn't have an internet connection? |
| 04:27.53 | mheath | I was talking about boshi, not bushi :) |
| 04:28.04 | mheath | Just noticed you were spelling it differnetly |
| 04:28.08 | mheath | Different thing |
| 04:28.31 | mheath | No |
| 04:28.39 | mheath | We've got too many network techs :) |
| 04:28.47 | goozbach | from the sounds of it somebody with skillz could score big time. |
| 04:28.54 | mheath | They think they have skills |
| 04:28.58 | tensai | I'll take over the ventilation system and strategically control the HVAC to type on the keys with bursts of air |
| 04:29.16 | mheath | Haha. |
| 04:29.58 | tensai | mheath: oops, you're right. I saw where you mistyped but didn't see where you corrected it. |
| 04:30.24 | mheath | Yeah, it's odd |
| 04:30.34 | mheath | We have a group at our school, run by a teacher, that does Chanbara |
| 04:31.08 | mheath | "Boshi club" |
| 04:31.16 | mheath | Everyone mistakes it for meaning hat :) |
| 04:32.36 | mheath | I think the actual meaning is the hardened, sharp tip of a sword |
| 04:50.36 | goozbach | so long suckas |
| 04:52.10 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@67-42-250-200.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 04:56.25 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@da001d1175.cam-ma.osd.concentric.net) |
| 05:00.34 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@c-67-169-254-149.client.comcast.net) |
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| 05:46.47 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (~zorb@defiant.star-travel.org) |
| 05:56.15 | xbmodder | what up |
| 05:56.39 | linuxalien | http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html |
| 05:56.50 | linuxalien | NASA is gonna attack an innocent moon. ;) |
| 05:56.50 | tene | sjansen just killed a large dinosaur. |
| 05:57.42 | xbmodder | ? |
| 05:58.33 | linuxalien | The probe!! They're probing Titan. I guess they've been talking to those SETI people and their stories of alien anal probes. |
| 05:59.06 | tene | It was a pretty difficult battle, but sjansen came out on top in the end. |
| 05:59.34 | tene | It looked like he was going to lose for a while, but then he revealed that he's not actually left-handed. |
| 05:59.44 | xbmodder | ? |
| 06:00.14 | linuxalien | He must be making fun of his old gym teacher. :) |
| 06:02.30 | findlay | but tene really it was because he owned a superior light saber |
| 06:03.13 | tene | Of course. |
| 06:10.17 | xbmodder | yeah |
| 06:10.20 | xbmodder | what ever |
| 06:50.36 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@da001d1175.cam-ma.osd.concentric.net) |
| 06:57.29 | findlay | seeing that it is nearly bedtime, a few well chosen parting words are in order |
| 06:57.40 | findlay | I just don't have any. Sorry. |
| 06:58.41 | linuxalien | goodnight |
| 07:00.53 | findlay | C-a-d |
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| 10:22.10 | linuxalien | Titan is gonna be probed! |
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| 12:52.36 | plouf | holla |
| 12:53.24 | *** part/#utah plouf (~drevil@ianitrix.iplei.pt) |
| 12:55.54 | mheath | Why is it that I have to start having endless problems with Gentoo? |
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| 15:45.03 | xbmodder | ? |
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| 16:08.26 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@207.141.37.66) |
| 16:08.43 | *** topic/#utah by tensai -> The source for OSS focused communication in Utah. Check out plug.org, uug.byu.edu, sllug.org, etc. |
| 16:11.45 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@firebat.aros.net) |
| 16:11.51 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 16:12.21 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (bradipo@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 16:14.05 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@128.187.168.155) |
| 16:20.33 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (~von@user-225.kingsley2.fiber.net) |
| 16:30.36 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:31.29 | hans | ~lart vontrapp |
| 16:31.35 | hans | how ironic. |
| 16:31.49 | hans | I'm trying to get him to talk to me |
| 16:31.55 | hans | you're not helping, ibot. |
| 16:33.12 | sjansen | http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/iProduct.gif |
| 16:35.09 | spr | sjansen, have you been reading your blogs again? |
| 16:35.20 | sjansen | every day |
| 16:36.30 | spr | I saw it last night, laughed, and went to be |
| 16:36.31 | spr | d |
| 16:45.03 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@translate.sento.com) |
| 16:48.43 | hans | anyone interested in a single fxo port asterisk card for < $20? |
| 16:49.19 | Jayce^ | where'd you get that? |
| 16:49.19 | vontrapp | can anyone say why it's a single fxo port card with two physical ports on it? |
| 16:50.36 | hans | gabe sent me a link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5734199870&category=61841 |
| 16:50.55 | hans | buy it now, plenty, $10 a pop, but $10 shipping. so I'm looking for people to go in |
| 16:51.03 | hans | $2 for each additional shipping |
| 16:52.11 | tensai | ooh look. I could "Set up a voice mail system for the multiple persons". |
| 16:52.34 | *** part/#utah spig (~spig_@translate.sento.com) |
| 16:52.55 | hans | this is all you need for ubervoicemail |
| 16:53.05 | hans | also could gateway pots->voip |
| 16:53.15 | hans | but no outbound |
| 16:53.23 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@translate.sento.com) |
| 16:53.32 | tensai | yeah, I need like 5 of those things. when are you thinking of buying it? |
| 16:53.33 | hans | tensai: but can you set them up the bomb? |
| 16:53.51 | Jayce^ | so yeah, why two ports? |
| 16:53.54 | hans | right awayish. |
| 16:53.57 | levi | For great justice! |
| 16:54.14 | tensai | it's just like a modem. the other is a pass through. |
| 16:54.24 | hans | that's my guess too |
| 16:54.25 | Jayce^ | ahh, pass through is good then |
| 16:55.09 | levi | Looks like a cool gadget. |
| 16:55.36 | hans | levi: you can even program your dial scripts in lisp |
| 16:55.46 | levi | Ooooh. |
| 16:56.14 | Jayce^ | levi, we were looking for you on wednesday when jsmith mentioned that.. |
| 16:56.36 | tensai | levi: as they all laughed at the mention of lisp |
| 16:56.52 | Jayce^ | tensai must have listened to the recording |
| 16:57.20 | tensai | 1 & 1/2 times even |
| 16:57.20 | levi | Mock not the power of lisp. :) |
| 16:58.06 | Jayce^ | hans, can you post to the list with a link to that? |
| 16:58.14 | Jayce^ | and mention the new PLUG jabber server? |
| 16:58.25 | Jayce^ | that |
| 16:58.28 | Jayce^ | jabber.plug.org |
| 17:00.46 | levi | sjansen is holding a debian-based CD?! |
| 17:01.01 | levi | Where is the recording of the meeting to be found? |
| 17:01.26 | Jayce^ | go for it sjansen |
| 17:01.29 | tensai | hans: would you be willing to send some of them to Iderho? |
| 17:01.35 | Jayce^ | hans knows |
| 17:01.45 | tensai | levi: http://web.onewest.net/~cedwards/plug/asterisk.spx for one |
| 17:01.53 | tensai | it's on test.plug.org somewhere too |
| 17:02.13 | sjansen | hans, Jayce^: has DNS been moved yet? |
| 17:02.34 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 17:02.50 | levi | What's a good spx player package for debian? |
| 17:03.19 | tensai | levi: if you find one, let me know. i dumped it to wav and used xmms. |
| 17:03.32 | tensai | using ogg123 |
| 17:03.41 | Jayce^ | sjansen, no, mike needs to wait until monday to transfer some stuff |
| 17:04.15 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@dsl233.sisna.com) |
| 17:04.28 | Jayce^ | thought there were codecs so xmms, etc could play speex |
| 17:04.54 | tensai | not that I found in my 2 second glance |
| 17:04.56 | levi | Hmm, there's a gstreamer plugin package for speex. |
| 17:05.17 | tensai | I tried that but rhythmbox still wouldn't play it. |
| 17:05.17 | levi | Totem uses gstreamer, doesn't it? |
| 17:05.39 | tensai | totem can use xine or gstreamer |
| 17:06.23 | tensai | I would expect xine can play a speex file. nuts! I should have thought of that. |
| 17:07.25 | levi | Ahh, my totem was using xine. |
| 17:07.40 | levi | Which, for some reason, made all my video look washed-out. |
| 17:07.50 | levi | mplayer worked fine, but xine was way overexposed-looking. |
| 17:09.07 | levi | Hmm. totem w/gstreamer plays it, but about twice as fast as it should be. It's a party of mice. |
| 17:09.24 | tensai | probably trying to play it at 16khz when it's an 8khz file |
| 17:10.25 | levi | That's what the error message makes it sound like. |
| 17:12.52 | hans | ditto here. I thought there was an xmms plugin though |
| 17:13.03 | levi | Not debian-packaged, and I don't feel like compiling it. |
| 17:13.09 | hans | oh |
| 17:13.17 | levi | At least not in my sources. |
| 17:13.21 | hans | speexdev asterisk.spx works great |
| 17:13.26 | hans | er speexdec |
| 17:13.49 | *** join/#utah lukfugl_ (~lukfugl@host-19.pl107798-3.fiber.net) |
| 17:14.21 | sjansen | hans was good enough to trim the original file, new version at http://test.plug.org/files/presentations/12Jan2005/asterisk.spx |
| 17:14.24 | levi | I guess ^Z is the pause button. |
| 17:14.37 | hans | tensai: sure, but would that be cheaper for you than just getting it direct? |
| 17:14.42 | levi | Ahh, nice. I don't want to listen to any more prize handouts. |
| 17:15.24 | tensai | hans: that's a good point, but I don't want to get an ebay account |
| 17:15.41 | hans | ah, so your second motive is like mine. I don't want to fix my paypal account. :) |
| 17:16.27 | levi | Buncha lazy bums. |
| 17:16.50 | hans | not that I haven't tried in the past |
| 17:17.09 | hans | the morons locked down my account for no apparent reason (maybe I tried to log in a few times with the wrong password, I can't remember) |
| 17:17.31 | hans | and instead of getting better over time they just lock it down tighter. any time I've tried to resolve it I just get sent in circles and nothing happnes |
| 17:17.35 | hans | ~lart paypal |
| 17:18.40 | tensai | Paypal. "We'll take your money, but we're not plowing your driveway" |
| 17:19.28 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 17:27.59 | tensai | ~lart hans for spreading misinformation to the pluglist |
| 17:30.06 | dataw0lf | nice. |
| 17:31.14 | hans | tensai: I saw that and I think the auctioner is confused |
| 17:31.55 | byronc | so, what's the best way to register an account on jabber.plug.org? |
| 17:31.57 | hans | afaict the card is only fxo. if it is fxs too, then it's an even better steal. To buy such a card from digium is like $150 |
| 17:32.24 | hans | byronc: just fire up gaim, choose a username byronc on server jabber.plug.org, and tell it to register |
| 17:32.30 | hans | (in the account editor) |
| 17:32.32 | tensai | it's only fxo which means you can only talk to the phone company. you can't ring a local phone. |
| 17:32.45 | tensai | but you can talk both ways to ma-bell |
| 17:32.45 | hans | ahhh. so it does do outbound then? |
| 17:32.56 | hans | dang. that's cooler than I had hoped |
| 17:33.00 | byronc | hans: how about if I don't have gaim :) I don't think bitlbee will do that. |
| 17:33.10 | hans | fire up psi for a second to do it |
| 17:33.51 | tensai | byronc: I can send you the format of an xml stream to do it manually |
| 17:34.21 | byronc | tensai: I'll just dig up another client and do it. |
| 17:34.38 | sjansen | As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein |
| 17:35.02 | levi | hans: What's the 'Resource' in the add account box for gaim jabber? |
| 17:35.03 | Jayce^ | byronc, bitlbee can't do it |
| 17:35.17 | hans | whatever you want it to be |
| 17:35.21 | tensai | levi: you can log in multiple times. resource tells the other party what your login is named. |
| 17:35.31 | tensai | Office, Home, PDA, etc. |
| 17:35.43 | tensai | it's free form text, so you could put in dirty words if you want |
| 17:35.53 | hans | like perl... |
| 17:36.27 | levi | I'm now logged in there. |
| 17:36.31 | levi | As levi. |
| 17:37.16 | tensai | also, each resource is given a priority. if no resource is selected by the caller, the highest one is the default. |
| 17:39.51 | levi | Sweet, a Darth Vader Mr. Potatohead. |
| 17:40.43 | hans | except gaim doesn't support priorities which makes that pretty much unpredictable |
| 17:40.46 | hans | ~lart gaim |
| 17:40.50 | hans | (when you're using gaim of course) |
| 17:40.59 | hans | which is one reason I'm switching to psi maybe |
| 17:41.15 | Jayce^ | I use too many other im's to switch to psi |
| 17:41.16 | Jayce^ | :( |
| 17:41.40 | synic|w | you can use other IMs with psi |
| 17:41.49 | Jayce^ | you can? |
| 17:42.02 | synic|w | yeah - jabber has these things called transports - or bots |
| 17:42.14 | synic|w | it's a server side bridge with the other protocols |
| 17:42.15 | Jayce^ | hehe, yeah, but dont' have all those in place for what I need |
| 17:42.22 | Jayce^ | I know about those |
| 17:42.39 | synic|w | what do you need? |
| 17:44.14 | Jayce^ | msn (transports seem to always break on that one), icq, aim |
| 17:44.34 | Jayce^ | so I just live with gaim .. |
| 17:44.50 | synic|w | ah. The transports on jabber.ccc.de are pretty stable it seems |
| 17:45.05 | synic|w | I've had the MSN trouble before, but not with msn.jabber.ccc.de |
| 17:47.58 | macnewbold | sjansen: so is it normal for a speex-encoded file (like asterisk.spx) to be only half as big when encoded as an .mp3? |
| 17:48.27 | tensai | I've never had much luck with transports either, especially in installing them. Luckily my jabber server didn't need them. |
| 17:48.33 | sjansen | macnewbold: ask hans |
| 17:49.00 | synic|w | the good thing is that you don't need to have an account on a server with transports... you can use the transports on any server |
| 17:49.38 | tensai | macnewbold: well, you're encoding less data than speex did originally so I'm not surprised |
| 17:50.11 | tensai | synic|w: well, you do if s2s is turned off on your server. but that's cool. I didn't know that. |
| 17:59.11 | macnewbold | tensai: so it's just an artifact of the fact that speex is lossy, producing a different .wav than the original file, and then mp3 had an easier job to do? |
| 17:59.46 | macnewbold | the speex file was 12MB, making a 100MB wav, and a 6.5 MB mp3... how big would an mp3 of the original .wav file be? |
| 17:59.48 | tensai | that's my theory, but I don't have any proof so it more like a guess. |
| 17:59.58 | macnewbold | (I'm trying to get an idea of the virtues of speex over things like mp3) |
| 18:00.22 | tensai | depends on a lot of setting. also speex is designed to preserve the sound of human voice over all else. |
| 18:03.02 | macnewbold | ah... so it's a domain specific compression algorithm as well. Then an mp3 would probably do considerably worse than speex on the recording of the lecture. |
| 18:03.11 | macnewbold | in quality, in file size, or both |
| 18:03.59 | hans | macnewbold: that's the theory anyway |
| 18:04.07 | hans | I hope I didn't use speex in vain. :) |
| 18:04.23 | tensai | do you still have the source wav? |
| 18:04.59 | hans | no, I recorded straight to speex |
| 18:05.15 | hans | rec -t wav - | speexenc - asterisk.spx |
| 18:05.56 | hans | also remember that the link sjansen gave has been decoded to wave and back to speex again |
| 18:06.17 | tensai | why? |
| 18:06.22 | hans | so I could trim |
| 18:06.30 | hans | 10 minutes of jayce giving out prizes is boring |
| 18:06.44 | Jayce^ | you're just bitter you didnt' get the putty :) |
| 18:06.45 | tensai | I thought it was interesting |
| 18:11.45 | hans | so I got some herb seeds the other day. When I stopped by the seed store a week ago they had jack squat (later they'll have plenty I'm sure) |
| 18:12.00 | hans | but lowes of all places had plenty of everything. So I picked some up |
| 18:13.05 | hans | -rw-r--r-- 1 fugalh fugalh 21M Jan 14 11:07 asterisk.ogg |
| 18:13.05 | hans | -rw-r--r-- 1 fugalh fugalh 13M Jan 13 10:57 asterisk.spx |
| 18:13.27 | hans | that's from the trimmed wav decoded from the original spx |
| 18:18.29 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (bradipo@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 18:25.18 | *** join/#utah natester (~me@67.50.46.118) |
| 18:26.00 | natester | I want to write a simple menu system for linux similar to net-setup or netconfig is bash the way to go and how do you do the menu system? |
| 18:28.12 | sjansen | ~hug Guru putty |
| 18:28.15 | ibot | ACTION hugs Guru putty |
| 18:28.42 | sjansen | natester: curses, but it'll be hard to do with bash |
| 18:29.13 | hans | might look at dialog |
| 18:29.19 | natester | dialog ok |
| 18:29.21 | natester | thanks |
| 18:29.34 | natester | that's what netconfig is written with right? |
| 18:30.16 | levi | Heh, I just heard the "where's Levi?" comment. |
| 18:30.19 | natester | hans: you know that redhat util |
| 18:30.47 | levi | I think slang is used for text-based stuff a lot, too. |
| 18:31.01 | sjansen | looks like netconfig is written with slang |
| 18:31.10 | natester | ooh now we are getting somewhere |
| 18:31.20 | natester | ok I'll check it out thanks |
| 18:31.24 | natester | #utah +1 |
| 18:34.54 | bbeattie | New gpg question.. I changed the expire date from never to tomorrow, and now if I try to send the key up, I get ldap internal bind errors.. Any ideas? |
| 18:38.55 | natester | sjansen: if not bash what would you do it in, C? |
| 18:39.08 | sjansen | or perl/python |
| 18:40.02 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@66.239.17.228.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:40.28 | natester | perl or python with dialog or slang or what? |
| 18:41.48 | macnewbold | ~#utah++ |
| 18:44.39 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@66.239.17.228.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:45.48 | Maquis | ~hug LaTeX |
| 18:45.50 | ibot | ACTION hugs LaTeX |
| 18:46.59 | Bradipo | Anyone read that article about people unplugging from the Internet? |
| 18:47.01 | hans | hatch chile seeds are here |
| 18:47.20 | Bradipo | I think the editor needed someone to revise it a bit... |
| 18:47.30 | Bradipo | This: The root cause of the problems is the open architecture of the Internet, initially inhabited and managed by a collaborative community from government and universities. |
| 18:47.59 | Bradipo | Should have read, ... initially inhabited by intelligent, nettiquette following users. |
| 18:48.11 | Bradipo | :-) |
| 18:48.35 | hans | heh |
| 18:48.49 | Bradipo | ``Microsoft's dominant Windows operating system also makes it possible for malicious code to spread, in part because it was designed to allow so many functions'' |
| 18:49.00 | natester | teehee |
| 18:49.07 | Bradipo | I like that---makes it sound like Microsoft was designed to allow spyware and spam to take over your computer. |
| 18:49.10 | hans | so does that make functional languages bad? |
| 18:49.31 | Bradipo | I'm sure the editor has no idea what a functional language is. |
| 18:50.05 | findlay | functional languages are the solution to the Universe |
| 18:50.16 | sjansen | no, 42 is |
| 18:50.30 | findlay | well, whatever |
| 18:50.32 | Bradipo | But no, it doesn't. |
| 18:50.55 | hans | but they allow a lot of functions |
| 18:52.59 | findlay | perhaps he should have said ``Because the Windows OS has so much hip OO technology, anybody can take advantage of the powerful features for benign or malicious purposes'' |
| 18:53.33 | Bradipo | Except its not necessarily the technology that allows it, it is the insecure interfaces. |
| 18:53.40 | Bradipo | Not validating user input, etc... |
| 18:54.00 | hans | lol .my doggy senses are tingling |
| 18:54.02 | Bradipo | Or bad design in the first place. |
| 18:54.28 | Bradipo | How many users take advantage of even 10% of features in Windows? |
| 18:54.42 | hans | functions man. not features. |
| 18:54.47 | Bradipo | Oh, sorry. |
| 18:54.50 | findlay | how many of those features are documneted? |
| 18:55.33 | Bradipo | Well, they must be documented somewhere, else how could all those users be using them? |
| 18:59.24 | Bradipo | Can you put me in touch with one of your resellers? |
| 19:01.10 | sjansen | Without cracking, huh? Well that rules out a disconnected brick. I'm guessing a disconnected diamond. |
| 19:01.29 | findlay | um, uh it's still in alpha. Won't be for sale until 4Q 2048 |
| 19:01.44 | hans | but it is only effective against today's hackers? |
| 19:01.55 | findlay | unfortunately |
| 19:01.57 | hans | er, crackers |
| 19:02.29 | hans | here you had my hopes up that you'd actually sue |
| 19:02.35 | hans | and you were just threatening |
| 19:02.40 | findlay | I don't know occasionally I think it is useful to think Platonically, as I may say that Alan Turing did |
| 19:02.52 | *** join/#utah jsmith (~jsmith@64.50.35.114.2O7.net) |
| 19:03.01 | hans | jsmith: great presentation |
| 19:03.08 | jsmith | hans: Thanks... |
| 19:03.11 | findlay | things like a frictionless surface, or a massless pulley |
| 19:03.20 | findlay | the elements of the thought experiment |
| 19:03.52 | jsmith | hans: I wished I had another hour or two to do into more detail... but other than that, I thought it went well. |
| 19:03.59 | findlay | a method of reason employed famously by Einstein and Galalei |
| 19:04.10 | sjansen | ~puttyslap findlay |
| 19:04.12 | ibot | ACTION rolls a large, Guru blue puttybat then whacks findlay and Maquis with it |
| 19:08.00 | tensai | jsmith: I also enjoyed it. my dialplan is 225 lines already. |
| 19:09.34 | vontrapp | say you have a table (mysql) with columns a b c |
| 19:09.46 | vontrapp | and there are multiple entries per value a |
| 19:09.53 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:10.16 | hans | so if you want in on the cards, send me an email. hans@fugal.net. I'll coordinate them that way |
| 19:11.05 | jsmith | tensai: Schweet! |
| 19:11.06 | vontrapp | and you want to select one row of c per a, such that b is the largest for that a |
| 19:12.00 | vontrapp | real world type application so maybe it makes more sense |
| 19:12.12 | vontrapp | say you have several publications |
| 19:12.58 | vontrapp | a table stores these publications, with columns publication_name, month, articles |
| 19:13.16 | vontrapp | you want to select the articles from the most recent of each publication_name |
| 19:13.23 | Newsome | ~lart students who run afoul of the DMCA |
| 19:13.34 | lukfugl | select * from table where a=? group by c order by b desc limit 0,1 |
| 19:13.35 | hans | dmca? |
| 19:13.51 | tensai | digital militia crackdown act |
| 19:13.53 | sjansen | Newsome: are you at liberty to explain? |
| 19:13.56 | Newsome | sure |
| 19:14.05 | hans | i know the dmca. I'm curious about the story |
| 19:14.21 | Newsome | So, in CS100, the students are supposed to set up their own web sites |
| 19:14.31 | tensai | hans: I was a little surprised that you didn't know. guess that explains why. |
| 19:14.32 | vontrapp | ooh, what's this limit #,# business? |
| 19:14.39 | Newsome | Making a "Virtual Zoo" |
| 19:14.54 | tensai | vontrapp: limit X,Y. only retrieve X rows starting at offset Y. |
| 19:15.03 | Newsome | and doing other stuff, like editing sound & video |
| 19:15.24 | Newsome | Problem is that many students just grab their favorite song and edit that |
| 19:15.54 | Newsome | Then, 8-10 months later, we get a takedown notice from some moron lawyers |
| 19:16.38 | Newsome | for some lame songs |
| 19:16.42 | sjansen | and you nuke the student's entire account just be safe, then mail the pieces to the lawyer |
| 19:17.23 | sjansen | and once a year the department head makes a grovelling journey to the RIAA head quarters on his knees |
| 19:17.25 | sjansen | right? |
| 19:17.28 | Newsome | "James Horner - A Beautiful Mind - Creating Governing Dynamics.mp3" "3 Doors Down - Away From The Sun - Here Without You.mp3" "Ace of Bass - I Saw The Sign.mp3", etc. |
| 19:17.35 | Newsome | screw the RIAA |
| 19:17.43 | *** join/#utah beandog (~sdibb@403238C8.ptr.dia.nextlink.net) |
| 19:17.51 | dataw0lf | Newsome: word |
| 19:18.01 | vontrapp | lukfugl: almost |
| 19:18.07 | vontrapp | that's not quite what a want |
| 19:18.20 | Newsome | We just delete the files and tell them it was some stupid student, and we've taken care of it. |
| 19:18.50 | lukfugl | vontrapp: what different? |
| 19:18.58 | dataw0lf | Newsome: it's the man keeping us down. |
| 19:19.08 | Newsome | They usually want to know exactly _who_ was involved |
| 19:19.10 | sjansen | do ever listen to them to make sure it contains what the lawyer thinks? or warn the students a file is about to disappear? |
| 19:19.11 | vontrapp | say theres 10 publications, i want one row per publication(a), each containing the content(c) of the coresponding publication for the most recent month(b) |
| 19:19.11 | lukfugl | any apache gurus here? |
| 19:19.11 | hans | lol. "Reminds me of the time the Pyschic Friends Network (remember them from late-night TV?) pulled their IPO stock offering due to "unforeseen circumstances."" |
| 19:19.17 | dataw0lf | Newsome: the man usually does. |
| 19:19.23 | vontrapp | 10 rows |
| 19:19.42 | lukfugl | mysql 4? |
| 19:19.44 | Newsome | sjansen: We just put it out on Napster, and hope everyone else can tell us if it's the right stuff ;) |
| 19:20.48 | lukfugl | if not, you'll probably need two selects (with 4 you can use a subselect) |
| 19:21.06 | Newsome | Sometimes we get notices from the MPAA. Once the notice stated very clearly that our firewall was serving out The Fast and the Furious. |
| 19:22.01 | hans | lol http://www.defectiveyeti.com/archives/001141.html |
| 19:22.14 | Newsome | lots of times, it's some ex-student, so they have no expectation that the file will continue to exist |
| 19:22.31 | beandog | isn't it grammar? |
| 19:22.37 | sjansen | Love me tender; Love my shoe; Life should be about Love, man; That's why I love all of you. |
| 19:22.52 | vontrapp | beandog: what are you? some kind of grammar nazi? |
| 19:23.05 | Newsome | If it's a current student, we'll probably lock the account and disable access until we can actually find out what's going on. |
| 19:23.05 | beandog | um, yes. |
| 19:23.50 | sjansen | It's better with the kazoo, I promise. |
| 19:24.42 | lukfugl | what I need is to know if there's a way to watch the entire process of how it decides which page to serve |
| 19:27.36 | *** join/#utah mrpull (~mrpull@205.158.184.116) |
| 19:45.16 | beandog | how long did it take |
| 19:46.57 | findlay | since sometime early this morning, about 2 or 3 AM |
| 19:47.03 | beandog | on gentoo? |
| 19:47.08 | beandog | ey tene |
| 19:47.09 | beandog | :D |
| 19:47.10 | findlay | yup |
| 19:47.20 | beandog | emerge genlop; genlop -t openoffice |
| 19:47.39 | tene | did you get that email I sent to you a few days ago? |
| 19:47.46 | beandog | Yah I havent written you back yet |
| 19:48.08 | beandog | ~lart beandog |
| 19:48.31 | tene | 'kay, just making sure it was recieved |
| 19:51.44 | levi | Yay, I finally got to get rid of the telemarketer calling my cell phone. |
| 19:52.10 | tene | yay! |
| 19:53.19 | findlay | what's genlop |
| 19:53.23 | findlay | ? |
| 19:53.28 | tene | ~google genlop |
| 19:53.42 | findlay | Description: A nice emerge.log parser |
| 19:53.47 | beandog | right |
| 19:53.55 | beandog | tells how how long stuff took to emerge |
| 19:53.59 | beandog | how long what youre emerging will take |
| 19:54.02 | beandog | blah de blah de blah |
| 19:54.03 | findlay | oh, cool |
| 19:54.24 | findlay | how does it calculate how long it will take? |
| 19:54.26 | beandog | Just dont use userpriv in your FEATURES |
| 19:54.29 | beandog | emerge.log |
| 19:54.34 | beandog | looks at how long the last one took |
| 19:54.36 | beandog | Or something. |
| 19:54.42 | findlay | why not USERPRIV? |
| 19:54.51 | beandog | I dont remember. |
| 19:54.56 | beandog | some reason. somewhere. |
| 19:55.24 | *** join/#utah Slackware_kid (~chatzilla@205.208.248.135) |
| 19:58.27 | Slackware_kid | hello |
| 19:58.51 | Slackware_kid | ~Slackware_kid |
| 19:58.53 | ibot | you are, like, a pyro |
| 19:59.06 | beandog | mine sucks |
| 19:59.08 | beandog | beandog? |
| 19:59.13 | Slackware_kid | ~a pyro eh |
| 19:59.15 | beandog | grr |
| 19:59.21 | beandog | oh well. |
| 19:59.26 | Slackware_kid | ~beandog |
| 19:59.40 | Slackware_kid | ibot, beandog is cool |
| 19:59.41 | ibot | okay, Slackware_kid |
| 19:59.46 | Slackware_kid | ~beandog |
| 19:59.47 | ibot | [beandog] cool |
| 19:59.52 | beandog | lols |
| 20:00.34 | Slackware_kid | is there anyone else here(no offence beandog) |
| 20:01.06 | beandog | thats okay, Im pretty worthless. |
| 20:01.11 | Slackware_kid | me too |
| 20:01.21 | beandog | unless you wanna play NWN |
| 20:01.34 | beandog | Then I'm a worthless rogue. :) |
| 20:01.55 | tene | depends on what you want someone else here for. |
| 20:01.56 | Slackware_kid | i wish i could play NWN, but my brother owns it, not me |
| 20:02.01 | Slackware_kid | to talk |
| 20:02.04 | tene | Hmm... |
| 20:02.09 | tene | Talk about what? |
| 20:02.16 | beandog | go get your own then :D |
| 20:02.16 | Slackware_kid | anything |
| 20:02.19 | beandog | its not that much. |
| 20:02.36 | tene | Slackware_kid: any sort of talking at all? |
| 20:03.00 | Slackware_kid | hey, i got 20 bucks, will it run on a P3/450 with a crappy graphics card on linux |
| 20:03.17 | beandog | Um. |
| 20:03.24 | beandog | Maybe. |
| 20:03.47 | beandog | It'll run on Linux. |
| 20:03.49 | Slackware_kid | does anyone besides me have a SCSI drive |
| 20:04.19 | Slackware_kid | what is everybody's website address |
| 20:04.42 | mrpull | does anyone smell a troll? |
| 20:04.50 | Slackware_kid | me? |
| 20:04.51 | beandog | a troll? |
| 20:04.56 | Slackware_kid | i am a troll? |
| 20:05.25 | Slackware_kid | cause if you smell me, u would probably be dead |
| 20:06.06 | mrpull | maybe it's just me. |
| 20:06.15 | mrpull | SK do you like WoW? |
| 20:06.21 | Slackware_kid | are you calling me a troll? |
| 20:06.24 | Slackware_kid | yep |
| 20:06.26 | mrpull | nope. |
| 20:06.29 | Slackware_kid | but i haven't played it |
| 20:06.44 | beandog | What kind of video card do you hae |
| 20:06.45 | beandog | have |
| 20:06.55 | Slackware_kid | i can't run it on my computer, and my brother owns it and won't let me play it on his |
| 20:06.58 | Slackware_kid | i don't know |
| 20:07.11 | Slackware_kid | ~Slackware_kid |
| 20:07.12 | ibot | [slackware_kid] a pyro |
| 20:07.13 | beandog | Tell your brother hes a jerk |
| 20:07.23 | Slackware_kid | i have many times |
| 20:07.32 | Slackware_kid | beandog, what city do you live in |
| 20:08.03 | beandog | West Jordan |
| 20:08.10 | Slackware_kid | i live in provo |
| 20:08.58 | beandog | good ol provo |
| 20:09.01 | beandog | I knew ye when |
| 20:09.28 | Slackware_kid | i have a friend that has WoW, but i don't know where he live |
| 20:09.32 | Slackware_kid | lives |
| 20:09.45 | mrpull | a good friend? |
| 20:09.55 | Slackware_kid | yep |
| 20:10.43 | beandog | cant be that good |
| 20:14.43 | mrpull | SK... why the name change? |
| 20:15.02 | Idiotkiller19 | it's my forum name |
| 20:15.11 | beandog | whats the 19 for |
| 20:15.12 | Idiotkiller19 | just call me idiot |
| 20:15.12 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 20:15.29 | Idiotkiller19 | just in case someone hasn't taken Idiotkiller on forums |
| 20:15.39 | Idiotkiller19 | i made it up while playing tribes |
| 20:15.49 | mrpull | quite self deprecating |
| 20:15.50 | beandog | hee hee hee |
| 20:15.51 | beandog | http://wonkabar.org/ds/CalvinandHobbes/2005.01.14.gif |
| 20:17.03 | Idiotkiller19 | that calvin and hobbes comic is funny |
| 20:17.49 | Idiotkiller19 | anyone want to guess my age |
| 20:18.45 | Idiotkiller19 | anyone |
| 20:18.45 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@66.239.17.228.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:18.48 | Idiotkiller19 | please |
| 20:18.51 | macnewbold | suicidal tendencies? |
| 20:19.03 | Idiotkiller19 | huh |
| 20:19.14 | Idiotkiller19 | (sorry for being an idiot) |
| 20:19.14 | beandog | 19 |
| 20:19.14 | Jayce^ | jsmith, you getting into Wow? |
| 20:19.35 | Idiotkiller19 | ~ Idiotkiller19 kills himself for being an idiot |
| 20:19.57 | macnewbold | ~bop Idiotkiller19 |
| 20:20.08 | macnewbold | ~lart Idiotkiller19 |
| 20:20.15 | macnewbold | ~fish Idiotkiller19 |
| 20:20.17 | ibot | ACTION slaps Idiotkiller19 around with a large trout |
| 20:20.43 | beandog | byronc: heh |
| 20:20.58 | Idiotkiller19 | hey, what you doing to me macnewbold |
| 20:21.13 | macnewbold | ~whaleslap Idiotkiller19 |
| 20:21.15 | ibot | ACTION slaps Idiotkiller19 upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 20:21.20 | byronc | it's not really guessing when you've seen the question and answer each day for the past three days. |
| 20:21.31 | Idiotkiller19 | oh, sorry |
| 20:21.56 | Idiotkiller19 | i just want people who i haven't really talked to, to know my age |
| 20:23.56 | beandog | man I wonder what I would have done if I was on irc at age 1 |
| 20:23.56 | beandog | er |
| 20:23.56 | beandog | 11 |
| 20:25.41 | Idiotkiller19 | hey, at home, i sometimes act like i'm one(mentally) but i can do dang hard problems in math i a few seconds |
| 20:25.51 | Idiotkiller19 | in |
| 20:26.16 | beandog | Im confused now |
| 20:26.19 | beandog | how old are you anyway? |
| 20:26.41 | Idiotkiller19 | 11 |
| 20:26.49 | beandog | Ok |
| 20:26.52 | Jayce^ | beandog, you're always confuse |
| 20:26.53 | Jayce^ | d |
| 20:26.58 | beandog | Whatever, punk |
| 20:26.59 | beandog | :D |
| 20:27.14 | Idiotkiller19 | i can do algebra 2 problems in like 10 minutes |
| 20:28.43 | macnewbold | Slackware_kid: how long have you been using Linux? |
| 20:28.47 | macnewbold | and how'd you get started? |
| 20:28.52 | Slackware_kid | 3 years |
| 20:28.56 | Slackware_kid | my dad |
| 20:29.00 | beandog | holy crap |
| 20:29.14 | Slackware_kid | but i was only using x for all three |
| 20:29.47 | Slackware_kid | what is the address for everyones website(if they have one) |
| 20:30.03 | sjansen | Have you been talking to goozbach again? |
| 20:30.10 | Slackware_kid | but i also use windows from time to time(just to screw around and play games) |
| 20:31.45 | Slackware_kid | does anyone play Renegade, Tiberian Sun, REdalert, or Redalert 2 |
| 20:32.01 | beandog | sjansen: cant say I have |
| 20:32.08 | beandog | Ive never even heard of those |
| 20:32.15 | beandog | You ever play Pools of Darkness? |
| 20:32.30 | Jayce^ | nope, not for a looong time |
| 20:32.40 | Jayce^ | C&C generals.. |
| 20:32.42 | Jayce^ | BFME now :) |
| 20:32.47 | beandog | BFME? |
| 20:33.14 | Slackware_kid | BFME???? |
| 20:33.31 | Slackware_kid | i play all but Redalert 1 |
| 20:33.52 | Jayce^ | Battle for Middle Earth |
| 20:33.56 | Jayce^ | based on the generals engine |
| 20:34.02 | Slackware_kid | haven't played it yet |
| 20:35.46 | emcnabb | digdug! |
| 20:35.50 | emcnabb | pacman |
| 20:35.54 | emcnabb | oh yeah |
| 20:36.43 | hans | zork |
| 20:36.48 | Jayce^ | mmm, zork |
| 20:37.00 | Jayce^ | got a zork sticker on my monitor |
| 20:37.13 | Jayce^ | "It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." |
| 20:37.19 | Bradipo | zork, that's an old game. |
| 20:37.39 | Jayce^ | Conan the Barbarian (apple ][c) |
| 20:37.55 | Bradipo | One of my favorites is Below the Root. |
| 20:38.09 | Jayce^ | why does that calvin comic make me think of sjansen? :-p |
| 20:40.05 | sjansen | I don't know. Most of the time I'm self-aware but don't care. |
| 20:40.26 | hans | don't care that you're self-aware? |
| 20:40.26 | *** join/#utah Slackware_kid (~chatzilla@205.208.248.135) |
| 20:40.27 | goozbach | holy pickles |
| 20:40.35 | goozbach | holy shoestrings |
| 20:40.42 | sjansen | I could get past the first coupla' rooms in Zork. |
| 20:40.59 | Slackware_kid | got kicked out of mozilla, but zork rocks |
| 20:41.02 | Bradipo | I don't want a pickle, I just want to ride on my moooo-tor-cycle. |
| 20:41.08 | hans | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:42.13 | Slackware_kid | i have beaten zork 1, but not zork 2 or zork 3 |
| 20:43.51 | sjansen | King's Quest |
| 20:44.01 | sjansen | Space Quest |
| 20:44.41 | beandog | great games |
| 20:44.41 | sjansen | Now there's a game I can beat. Click on the screen randomly until something happens to indicate you've progressed. |
| 20:44.55 | beandog | Sierra games = 10001 creative ways to die |
| 20:45.16 | beandog | nothing beats monkey island 2. The hardest puzzle game I ever played. |
| 20:45.57 | Slackware_kid | anybody know where i can get all the king's quest games, my brother sold my favorite(and only)one |
| 20:46.04 | Slackware_kid | but it was his anyway |
| 20:46.40 | hans | ebay |
| 20:46.48 | hans | trinity |
| 20:46.59 | sjansen | warez |
| 20:47.38 | sjansen | ~bzfrag sjansen for suggesting warez |
| 20:47.41 | ibot | ACTION fries sjansen for suggesting warez with a laser |
| 20:48.04 | beandog | which one was your favorite |
| 20:48.09 | beandog | Go download the free kq2 remake |
| 20:48.14 | beandog | or was it a kq1 remake |
| 20:48.36 | beandog | Its *really* easy to find the old sierra games out there. |
| 20:48.40 | beandog | Or, uh, so I've heard. |
| 20:49.41 | Slackware_kid | kq7 was my favorite |
| 20:49.55 | beandog | I gave up after 4. |
| 20:49.58 | beandog | 5 was so freaking dumb. |
| 20:50.21 | beandog | 3 is the best. |
| 20:51.01 | Newsome | Gobliins were pretty fun too |
| 20:51.08 | sjansen | Nah, kq59.5, the one that was only released in yakistan, was the best |
| 20:51.31 | sjansen | Or am I thinking of Final Daydream, Poltergeists within? |
| 20:51.44 | beandog | heh |
| 20:51.52 | beandog | Heros Quest 2 was pretty good too. |
| 20:52.32 | Slackware_kid | i can't believe my brother sold his favoriet kq to get money |
| 20:52.39 | Slackware_kid | it was an awesome game |
| 20:56.39 | sjansen | ~spell centralized |
| 20:56.39 | ibot | 'centralized' may be spelled correctly |
| 20:56.52 | hans | noncomittant |
| 20:56.57 | Slackware_kid | ~spell michael |
| 20:56.58 | ibot | possible spellings for michael: Michael Michale Micheal Michaela Mitchael Michal Michel Michail Michaella Micheil Michele Michell Mitchel Michaels Mychal |
| 20:57.15 | Slackware_kid | holy crap, look at all those spellings for my real name |
| 20:57.50 | Slackware_kid | ~spell peterson |
| 20:57.51 | ibot | possible spellings for peterson: Peterson Paterson Petersen peter son peter-son peters on peters-on Patterson |
| 20:58.11 | Slackware_kid | there are quite a bit for my last name too |
| 20:58.57 | beandog | ~spell dibb |
| 20:58.58 | ibot | possible spellings for dibb: dibs Gibb DOB dub Sibby Bib bib DB dB db Ibby Sib din div drib fib Debbi Debby BB DI Di dibble Deb dab deb dubs Bibby Cobb Dian Dina Dino Dion Gibby Libbi Libby Robb dine ding diva dive dumb BBB Dir Dis Gib Ibo Lib dbl did die dig dim dip dis ebb jib lib nib rib dribs |
| 20:59.04 | beandog | Dion? |
| 20:59.06 | beandog | Im offended. |
| 21:04.20 | hans | so I'll read. the only thing I want to do when I don't want to do anything. today's subject: hylafax |
| 21:04.33 | sjansen | cool stuff, hylafax |
| 21:05.29 | Jayce^ | what about rpmfind.net? |
| 21:06.34 | sjansen | It's been going down hill, basically irrelavant now. |
| 21:08.04 | hans | so how do you find rpms? |
| 21:08.54 | beandog | lols Jayce^ |
| 21:10.41 | beandog | does anyone have mondy off? |
| 21:10.42 | beandog | monday |
| 21:13.42 | sjansen | hans: yum/apt/yast/urpmi |
| 21:13.45 | sjansen | google |
| 21:14.16 | hans | what if you just want an rpm? |
| 21:14.29 | hans | beandog: what fer? |
| 21:14.51 | beandog | hans: Our friend Martin |
| 21:15.50 | beandog | ~google martin luther king jr. day |
| 21:16.42 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@firebat.aros.net) |
| 21:16.59 | Newsome | not in Utah |
| 21:17.13 | beandog | I think Novell gets off. |
| 21:17.15 | beandog | the punks. |
| 21:17.42 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 21:27.28 | Slackware_kid | hello |
| 21:28.22 | sjansen | you say hello, when I say goodbye |
| 21:28.32 | sjansen | hello, hello |
| 21:28.34 | sjansen | you say hello, when I say goodbye |
| 21:29.12 | *** join/#utah Slackware_kid (~chatzilla@205.208.248.135) |
| 21:32.26 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@67-50-102-213.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 21:33.14 | hans | ~prod fozz |
| 21:33.16 | ibot | ACTION zaps fozz with a high voltage cattle prod |
| 21:33.22 | sjansen | As a programmer, /me would like to make it very clear that he considers stealing software bad. |
| 21:33.35 | sjansen | That's why I love FOSS |
| 21:35.25 | Slackware_kid | what is FOSS |
| 21:35.45 | sjansen | Free and Open Source Software |
| 21:36.29 | sjansen | Only to people caught trying to sneak into our glorious dictatorship. |
| 21:37.21 | jsmith | I wish there was a better non-turn-based game (like Rise of Nations) for Linux... |
| 21:41.11 | Slackware_kid | i made a civilization based on egypt in my backyard, but i only had one guy helping me, and he was a faggot |
| 21:41.30 | JoshH | lol |
| 21:41.34 | JoshH | kids say the darndest things |
| 21:41.44 | Slackware_kid | yep |
| 21:45.20 | bucky | Egypt had a lot of faggots back in the pyramid days |
| 21:45.52 | bucky | then the muslims killed them all |
| 21:45.54 | hans | there have been and will be a lot of grubs pretty much no matter where you are |
| 21:46.28 | hans | anyone know a windows jabber client that would run off a CD on lab computers? |
| 21:47.03 | Slackware_kid | but this kid was a real faggot, he pretended he got all the girls to like him, but every girl hated him, so he went after some guys |
| 21:49.19 | JoshH | maybe he was just trying to make the girls jealous |
| 21:49.35 | Slackware_kid | in the sickest possible way\ |
| 21:50.15 | bucky | imagine that.. real faggots in utah.. hmm... |
| 21:50.22 | hans | Slackware_kid: there's freeciv |
| 21:50.28 | Slackware_kid | where do i get that |
| 21:51.00 | Slackware_kid | well, this kid says that he was mormon, but he never went to church, and he killed his cat by throwing it across the room |
| 21:51.37 | hans | probably not. |
| 21:51.44 | hans | i've not have patience to play either. |
| 21:51.48 | JoshH | me neither |
| 21:51.51 | Slackware_kid | where do i get freeciv |
| 21:51.53 | bucky | omg! |
| 21:52.05 | bucky | it's hard to kill a cat |
| 21:52.11 | Slackware_kid | it was a kitten |
| 21:52.23 | bucky | damn kitten killer |
| 21:52.28 | hans | my sister sat on (or over-loved) a kitten once |
| 21:52.30 | hans | when she was small |
| 21:52.36 | bucky | do all faggots kill kittens? |
| 21:53.01 | Slackware_kid | i want to kill him, but luckily i moved from that street a few months ago |
| 21:53.04 | Slackware_kid | probably |
| 21:53.11 | JoshH | hmmmm |
| 21:53.17 | Slackware_kid | faggots don't like cats, but i LOVE cats |
| 21:53.33 | Slackware_kid | he was a year older than me |
| 21:53.35 | bucky | Slackware_kid, mormons killed indians... is that bad? |
| 21:53.55 | Slackware_kid | we got in a fight, and i sent him home crying |
| 21:54.02 | JoshH | bucky: everyone killed indians, and vice versa... times were different then. |
| 21:54.32 | JoshH | im sure plenty of mormons were scalped |
| 21:54.33 | hans | JoshH: I don't know about the native australians |
| 21:54.44 | hans | they might not have had a chance |
| 21:55.03 | JoshH | hmm, good point |
| 21:55.33 | Slackware_kid | does anyone have a de-gaussing button on their monitor |
| 21:55.54 | hans | why, wanna buy it? |
| 21:56.28 | JoshH | ill sell you mine |
| 21:56.32 | JoshH | 500 dollars |
| 21:56.43 | Slackware_kid | i have one, but it is also the exit from menu button |
| 21:57.03 | Slackware_kid | i only have 20 bucks, or i woulda bought a nicer comp |
| 21:57.42 | sjansen | get a job, kid |
| 21:57.44 | Slackware_kid | does anyone live in provo |
| 21:57.49 | Slackware_kid | hey, i'm only 11 |
| 21:58.02 | Slackware_kid | i am opening a job with fixing computers |
| 21:58.10 | hans | last time I was in provo lots of people lived there |
| 21:58.16 | sjansen | when I was your age I was fighting off alligators so I could shovel coal in the rain |
| 21:58.26 | hans | alligators like coal? |
| 21:58.33 | Slackware_kid | i want to play WoW at someones house |
| 21:58.39 | sjansen | love it, that's why I had to fight them for it |
| 21:58.40 | Slackware_kid | alligators near coal? |
| 21:59.30 | sjansen | we lived in a cardboard box until the bank repossesed and we had to move under a rock |
| 21:59.54 | sjansen | every day I'd steal a handful of coal and take it home to my family |
| 21:59.55 | Jayce^ | LUCKY!... GOSH.. |
| 22:00.05 | Jayce^ | you had a rock, family, and coal to steal.. |
| 22:00.06 | Slackware_kid | i live in a dungeon |
| 22:00.13 | sjansen | not for heat, we couldn't afford that, but to eat it |
| 22:00.45 | sjansen | and every sunday we'd catch mosquitos for dessert |
| 22:01.00 | Slackware_kid | mosquitos taste good |
| 22:01.20 | sjansen | but they don't go well with coal |
| 22:01.30 | bucky | not many dungeons on the east bench |
| 22:01.35 | sjansen | that's why we only had them on sundays, I didn't work sundays so I couldn't steal any coal |
| 22:01.39 | Slackware_kid | coal doesn't go well with anything |
| 22:01.58 | sjansen | it's actually okay with sand |
| 22:02.09 | sjansen | I had a brother who worked in a sand quarry |
| 22:02.13 | Slackware_kid | i happen to like geodes, cause of the crystals |
| 22:02.49 | sjansen | They'd trow him in on a big rope as bait to lure the grue. Then they'd yank him out and shoot the grue before starting mine the sand. |
| 22:03.11 | Slackware_kid | grues are only in zork, i think this is all in your head |
| 22:03.19 | sjansen | Sometimes he'd grab a couple handfuls of sand, sometimes he'd be yanks back too quickly. |
| 22:04.03 | emcnabb | oh yeah! |
| 22:04.04 | sjansen | ~dance |
| 22:04.05 | ibot | ACTION becomes steve ballmer |
| 22:04.07 | emcnabb | way to go |
| 22:04.08 | hans | lol |
| 22:04.09 | hans | w00t |
| 22:04.26 | Maquis | huh? |
| 22:04.30 | emcnabb | sjansen, we keep you around here for a reason |
| 22:04.40 | hans | we've underestimated your powers |
| 22:04.46 | sjansen | my good looks and winning personality? |
| 22:07.26 | hans | your beard, mostly |
| 22:10.40 | sjansen | bricolage totally horked my mod_perl install |
| 22:11.06 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-52.client.comcast.net) |
| 22:11.31 | *** join/#utah fungus (Snak@fungus.air.aros.net) |
| 22:12.24 | mrpull | i've been considering CMS's for an intranet site. |
| 22:12.33 | emcnabb | pointed out by emcnabb |
| 22:13.57 | mrpull | but static html may be the best fit anyhow... |
| 22:22.19 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@firebat.aros.net) |
| 22:22.42 | tensai | mrpull: I use drupal and like it a lot. In many cases even when the site isn't a news/blog style, I would prefer it anyway. |
| 22:23.20 | mrpull | i like the idea of letting employees update it without knowing HTML. |
| 22:23.50 | mrpull | a wiki _might_ be a fit |
| 22:24.02 | *** join/#utah beandog (~sdibb@403238C8.ptr.dia.nextlink.net) |
| 22:27.54 | bucky | sjansen, that looks interesting.. did you apt got bricolage ? |
| 22:40.05 | sjansen | For the PLUG server, hans installed bricolage using apt. |
| 22:40.35 | sjansen | For my server, I tried installing bricolage from source and am now considering switching my server to Debian so that I can just apt-get it. |
| 22:41.04 | mheath | What do you currently run on your server? |
| 22:41.13 | sjansen | CentOS 3.3 |
| 22:41.46 | goozbach | it isn't stupid TCL however, it's actually readable and useable and smartly done, just wish they'd have chosen perl :) |
| 22:41.58 | bucky | sjansen, only apache 1 support apparently |
| 22:42.16 | bucky | hmm... |
| 22:42.21 | sjansen | yeah, hence the reason it horked my mod_perl |
| 22:42.29 | bucky | ah.. |
| 22:42.39 | sjansen | I already had apache2 + mp2 and MakeMaker ignored my --prefix. |
| 22:42.48 | bucky | right |
| 22:42.49 | mheath | Modules are moderately easy to port form Apache1 to Apache2 |
| 22:47.02 | Jayce^ | support should be changing soon, with mp2 going official |
| 22:47.07 | jsmith | mheath: Are they? I heard they were a beast... |
| 22:47.26 | mheath | Well, complex stuff is probably difficult |
| 22:47.40 | mheath | Stuff that interacts with apache in a moderately simple way shouldn't be too hard. |
| 22:48.21 | mheath | I hate my slow system :( I was hoping to come back to a fresly emerge system'd gentoo system |
| 22:48.31 | mheath | Instead, it isn't even half done with the emerge system |
| 22:48.50 | hans | (*cough* debian) |
| 22:49.17 | mheath | I hate debian. |
| 22:49.29 | mheath | It's package system gives me nightmares :) |
| 22:50.10 | mheath | The only GNU/Linux distros I've found that I like at all: Slackware and Gentoo' |
| 22:50.12 | levi | hans: No, that's the opposite of how you're supposed to divide and conquer the opposition. |
| 22:50.29 | hans | they don't scare me |
| 22:50.46 | levi | hans: No, we're conquering them for their own good. ;) |
| 22:51.19 | sjansen | Debian hates me. Does it hate you too mheath? |
| 22:51.34 | Jayce^ | sjansen, we all hate you |
| 22:51.52 | sjansen | Can you feel the love tonight? |
| 22:51.57 | *** join/#utah slag6900 (~slag6900@slacknet.com) |
| 22:52.05 | sjansen | It is #utaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh. |
| 22:52.06 | hans | we hate elton john too |
| 22:52.08 | hans | he kills cats |
| 22:52.25 | mheath | Actually, my only experience with Debian was with Debian GNU/Hurd. However, it uses the exact same package management, and my impressions of it were enough to make me hate Debian |
| 22:52.47 | hans | I've heard it's a lot like gentoo (or vice versa) |
| 22:52.56 | mheath | Not really |
| 22:53.01 | sjansen | hardly |
| 22:53.18 | hans | guess I heard wrong then |
| 22:53.19 | mheath | For simple stuff (like installing a particular program) the user interfaces might be similar |
| 22:53.23 | slag6900 | sweet mother of jesus i'm bored |
| 22:53.30 | mheath | Beyond that, the similarities end. |
| 22:53.37 | levi | The wonder of Debian is not necessarily in the package management system. It's in the metadata for the package management system. The quality of the metadata may be significantly different on different architectures. |
| 22:54.02 | hans | and a wild guess is hurd has a good chance of being lame |
| 22:54.06 | levi | hans: I think they're similar, except debian's is more useful to me. |
| 22:54.10 | mheath | hans: no |
| 22:54.17 | slag | fleh |
| 22:54.20 | hans | you just said it was |
| 22:54.29 | levi | mheath: He means the Debian metadata for hurd, not hurd itself. |
| 22:54.36 | mheath | hans: Debian GNU/Hurd != Hurd |
| 22:54.42 | hans | I didn't say it did. |
| 22:54.43 | mheath | Ah |
| 22:54.51 | mheath | Sorry, I was mistaken |
| 22:54.55 | hans | too bad we couldn't keep him entertained |
| 22:55.10 | tensai | he's a troll but nobody bit |
| 22:55.19 | sjansen | with no patience |
| 22:55.19 | tensai | good job, #utah |
| 22:55.25 | mheath | sjansen: because I code for the Hurd? |
| 22:55.30 | levi | So, I think your judgement of Debian proper based on its bastard child Debian GNU/Hurd is flawed. |
| 22:56.05 | hans | tensai: nah, we had already bitten on the distro troll. we don't need external trolls |
| 22:56.12 | mheath | sjansen: and because the Hurd is conceptually MUCH, MUCH better than Linux? (I can even show you quotes of Torvalds agreeing with this..) |
| 22:56.26 | mheath | keyword, however, is conceptually. |
| 22:56.34 | levi | Indeed. |
| 22:56.38 | hans | the hurd is theoretically cool, and I'd like to try it out |
| 22:56.39 | sjansen | quite |
| 22:56.43 | mheath | However, once it gets ported from Mach to L4 it will get insanely better, and will likely grow in popularity. |
| 22:56.44 | hans | someday I hope it's worth bothering |
| 22:56.47 | sjansen | when it gets a kernel |
| 22:56.54 | mheath | sjansen: it has a kernel O.o |
| 22:57.03 | sjansen | that boots and stays booted |
| 22:57.08 | mheath | Mach has been stable and very good for over a decade. |
| 22:57.12 | mheath | It boots. It stays booted. |
| 22:57.19 | mheath | Mach is older than Linux. |
| 22:57.35 | sjansen | last I heard from RMS Gnu/HURD's kernel was having trouble lasting more than a couple weeks |
| 22:57.42 | mheath | No |
| 22:57.49 | hans | perhaps he was wrong |
| 22:57.59 | sjansen | wouldn't be the first time |
| 22:58.04 | mheath | That's not Mach (The microkernel), you're probably thinking of Hurd. |
| 22:58.12 | levi | hans: The main difference I see between gentoo and debian package management is the USE variable and how different features in packages are made available. |
| 22:58.16 | hans | that's what I was thinking about |
| 22:58.36 | hans | levi: that's been my perceived difference based on discussions I've eavesdropped as well |
| 22:58.40 | hans | that and the time to installation. ;-) |
| 22:58.57 | mheath | No, gentoo can install very fast. |
| 22:59.02 | beandog | hans: oh please, you can be up in 15 mins. |
| 22:59.02 | levi | hans: Well, you don't have to do the self-flagellating install. |
| 22:59.05 | sjansen | Is it 5 yet? |
| 22:59.10 | mheath | About 30 minutes for a Stage3 installation |
| 22:59.22 | levi | hans: They do have binary packages. |
| 22:59.23 | beandog | GRP is even faster |
| 22:59.37 | hans | no, not gentoo install |
| 22:59.39 | hans | package install |
| 22:59.43 | beandog | ah |
| 22:59.47 | hans | say I want mozilla or something |
| 22:59.51 | sjansen | use GRP |
| 22:59.52 | beandog | emerge mozilla-bin ;) |
| 22:59.52 | levi | hans: There's a mozilla binary. |
| 22:59.58 | hans | or even a reasonably-sized package |
| 23:00.09 | levi | hans: Yeah, in real life, most gentoo users compile everything. |
| 23:00.12 | hans | 20 seconds vs 2 minutes. I'm impatient, I admit it. |
| 23:00.15 | levi | hans: And it takes forever. |
| 23:00.35 | sjansen | But if give them an excuse to chat while working. |
| 23:00.45 | sjansen | "Love to boss, but my compile hasn't installed." |
| 23:00.57 | sjansen | "Didn't you compile foo yesterday?" |
| 23:00.58 | beandog | Thats why you emerge everything at night |
| 23:01.02 | sjansen | "Er... no?" |
| 23:01.06 | levi | hans: It takes especially long with sizeable C++ apps. |
| 23:01.25 | mheath | Yeah. I plan to make a cron job that (nightly) emerge world's. |
| 23:01.32 | beandog | Most of the packages you need on a regular basis emerge under 20 mins. |
| 23:01.34 | beandog | imo. |
| 23:01.42 | beandog | Stuff like qt, gcc, kdelibs take a long time. |
| 23:01.47 | beandog | But they are the exception, not the rule. |
| 23:01.51 | mheath | Uggh. |
| 23:02.02 | levi | beandog: Which are all sizeable C++ programs. |
| 23:02.13 | beandog | levi: er .. yah :D |
| 23:02.20 | byronc | There were few packages that emerged in under 20 minutes on my gentoo system. |
| 23:02.21 | hans | anyway, my point wasn't that gentoo is bad. Just that he was sad it wasn't done yet and I coughed up debian as an example of a distro that wouldn't keep him waiting |
| 23:02.22 | mheath | Jayce^: I personally prefer emerge over BSD's Ports. |
| 23:02.24 | levi | Either g++ sucks, or C++ sucks. I'm not sure which, if not both. |
| 23:02.38 | mheath | levi: uh |
| 23:02.45 | sjansen | both |
| 23:02.46 | beandog | Lets rewrite everything in TurboPascal |
| 23:02.48 | mheath | Did you just say gcc is a c++ program? |
| 23:02.55 | levi | mheath: No. |
| 23:02.56 | sjansen | ~lynch beandog |
| 23:03.11 | mheath | levi: oh, nevermind. Sorry, |
| 23:03.26 | sjansen | AMEN brotha' levi! Preach to word! Cast out the C++! |
| 23:03.52 | mheath | g++ is good. |
| 23:04.05 | hans | good, but is it fast? |
| 23:04.18 | levi | If g++ is a good implementation of c++, then it must be c++ that sucks. |
| 23:04.35 | mheath | Speed shouldn't be a top priority in compiler design. |
| 23:04.48 | mheath | But yes, it's reasonably fast compared to most C++ compilers. |
| 23:04.58 | sjansen | gcc in generally pretty good, amazing if you consider how many platforms it targets |
| 23:05.31 | mheath | Yeah |
| 23:05.31 | levi | sjansen: platforms AND languages. |
| 23:05.35 | mheath | No |
| 23:05.40 | beandog | and it only takes 16 minutes to compile :D |
| 23:05.55 | sjansen | C++, on the other hand, is and ABOMINATION that must be CAST from this earth. It must be THRUST into the outer reaches! |
| 23:05.58 | levi | c, c++, fortran, objective C, etc. |
| 23:05.59 | mheath | levi: gcc isn't the thing that handles multiple languages |
| 23:06.08 | hans | yup, speed is definitely not the primary consideration for a compiler. but it was what levi was talking about |
| 23:06.12 | mheath | Unless you consider the locale information it has, which should be included with every program |
| 23:06.14 | levi | mheath: It is if it's the entity 'GNU Compiler Collection' |
| 23:06.47 | mheath | Gah! My brain is fried today |
| 23:07.11 | mheath | Sorry, I'm tired and just got done working on a bunch of stuff. I was thinking Languages as in spoken Languages for some reason |
| 23:07.20 | sjansen | Although some languages use more of it's common infrastructure than others. gcj, for example, uses much less than most. |
| 23:07.56 | sjansen | Probably comes of using the Hurd. ;-) |
| 23:08.39 | mheath | The Hurd is very good. |
| 23:09.05 | mheath | And, if more people supported it, has the potential to be one of the best OSes in the world. |
| 23:09.47 | byronc | ~lart gcj |
| 23:09.57 | erj | hehe |
| 23:10.12 | byronc | gcj deserves a much stronger lart than that |
| 23:10.27 | levi | mheath: Which could have been said of numerous elegant and deceased OSes. |
| 23:10.59 | hans | did everyone who wants one of those cards email me already? |
| 23:11.54 | mheath | levi: the Hurd will never be deceased because its the most extensible OS in existance, and rewriting/restructuring it is easy |
| 23:12.04 | levi | I hear lots of moaning from the lisp community about the death of the lisp machines. |
| 23:12.20 | mheath | Unlike Monolithic kernels |
| 23:12.59 | levi | Gotta love the blinders that computer people have. No one looks much at computing history when they proclaim their current favorite widget to be the best one ever. |
| 23:13.26 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 23:13.33 | sjansen | I'm not dead yet! |
| 23:13.38 | sjansen | I feel happy. |
| 23:13.47 | sjansen | I think I'll go for a walk now. |
| 23:14.03 | beandog | heheh |
| 23:14.18 | tensai | ~bash sjansen with a club and toss him on the dead cart |
| 23:14.27 | sjansen | mheath: Hopefully no offense, but it's hard not to be _very_ skeptical about the Hurd. |
| 23:14.33 | mheath | Why? |
| 23:14.48 | sjansen | Because it has been in development for so long. |
| 23:15.04 | mheath | sjansen: question.....do you even know anything about the Hurd, what makes it unique, what makes it better than others, some of its features, etc? |
| 23:15.12 | hans | because it hasn't _done_ anything. there's a place for theory and concepts, and then there's pragmatism. gotta be somewhere in the middle |
| 23:15.16 | sjansen | Yeah, and some of it sounds cool. |
| 23:15.29 | beandog | I want somma that pragmatism |
| 23:15.31 | mheath | hans: it's a working, living, moderately stable, complete Operating system |
| 23:15.33 | tensai | Hurd -> OSes as Duke Nukem Forever -> Games |
| 23:15.35 | mheath | "It hasn't done anything?" |
| 23:15.43 | hans | mheath: it sounded a lot to me like qnx, except qnx is real and very useful (but not free) |
| 23:15.54 | sjansen | But the fact is, we have a monolithic kernel, it's widly used, it's improving, and it hasn't collapsed under it's own weight despite the dire pronouncement of self-proclaimed OS experts. |
| 23:15.56 | mheath | What the hell? Sounds like qnx? |
| 23:16.07 | levi | hans: qnx is also a lot smaller, I would think. |
| 23:16.12 | hans | just comparing things to what I know |
| 23:16.27 | hans | I don't know hurd all that much, just what I've read. but I'm quite familiar with qnx |
| 23:16.38 | Bradipo | Does anyone know hurd? |
| 23:16.55 | hans | and the differences of hurd from linux sound like the same sort of thing that makes qnx different (except for the realtime part) |
| 23:17.02 | levi | I looked into it at one point; read a bunch of papers on it and stuff. |
| 23:17.09 | sjansen | I mean don't get me wrong. The ability to restart my FS sub-system sounds like fun. |
| 23:17.16 | mheath | ... |
| 23:17.22 | mheath | Thats not a feature of the Hurd. |
| 23:17.36 | hans | i thought it had a microkernel? |
| 23:17.36 | sjansen | It's micro-kernel design was supposed to support it. |
| 23:17.39 | mheath | And it's not possible to do that. Nor is it likely to be soon, if not ever. |
| 23:17.40 | mheath | No. |
| 23:17.48 | mheath | It has a microkernel |
| 23:17.58 | levi | mheath: Why don't you whip up a little web page explaining what we're all so ignorant about? |
| 23:18.01 | hans | you can do it in qnx. it is fun |
| 23:18.39 | mheath | levi: www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html |
| 23:18.58 | mheath | Or, www.gnu.org. Hurd is the core of the GNU operating system. |
| 23:19.42 | beandog | So is the HURD the only thing missing before there is actually an GNU OS? |
| 23:19.49 | mheath | ...... |
| 23:19.56 | beandog | As in, gnu-only |
| 23:19.59 | mheath | HUrd is working, stable, and modearately complete |
| 23:20.07 | mheath | There have been a few beta releases of GNU. |
| 23:20.09 | jsmith-busy | I thought HURD was just the kernel... |
| 23:20.14 | mheath | Hurd is not a kernel. |
| 23:20.20 | jsmith-busy | Hmmmn. |
| 23:20.23 | mheath | Mach is the GNU kernel. |
| 23:20.31 | jsmith-busy | Oh, that makes sense. |
| 23:20.44 | mheath | Hurd is a set of servers that run ontop of Mach, and provide some system services |
| 23:20.57 | mheath | As well as extend Mach's interprocess communication and allow for translators |
| 23:21.15 | sjansen | In other words, a microkernel. |
| 23:21.30 | levi | It now has a much better web page than when I last looked at it. |
| 23:21.33 | mheath | Mach is a microkernel, yes. |
| 23:21.35 | mheath | Hurd is not. |
| 23:21.38 | levi | Which was several years ago. |
| 23:22.18 | mheath | Translators are awesome :) |
| 23:23.15 | hans | is mach the eventual kernel then? or just a stand-in? |
| 23:23.18 | levi | Oh geez. The 'Announcements' list is exactly the same as when I last saw it. |
| 23:23.23 | sjansen | Moving to L4 |
| 23:23.33 | beandog | heh |
| 23:23.36 | hans | L4. does that stand for something? |
| 23:23.41 | mheath | I don't remember. |
| 23:23.46 | mheath | L4 will make Hurd much better |
| 23:23.50 | sjansen | It's another, more recent mircokernel. |
| 23:23.51 | mheath | And allow for userland hardware drivers |
| 23:23.58 | sjansen | IIRC, it was created at the U. |
| 23:24.01 | hans | oh, be a real microkernel in other words |
| 23:24.06 | mheath | .... |
| 23:24.10 | sjansen | Mach is real microkernel. |
| 23:24.12 | mheath | Mach is a real microkernel. |
| 23:24.14 | mheath | Hah. |
| 23:24.18 | sjansen | Mac OS X is built on it. |
| 23:24.28 | beandog | on which |
| 23:24.33 | mheath | Mach |
| 23:24.39 | sjansen | It's just the reality of Hurd that I question. |
| 23:24.41 | mheath | Though not GNU Mach |
| 23:24.47 | hans | it's a real kernel. it doesn't allow userspace hardware drivers? |
| 23:24.56 | mheath | sjansen: the reality of hurd? Download Debian GNU/Hurd, see for yourself :) |
| 23:25.12 | mheath | hans: I should word that differently.... |
| 23:25.17 | levi | sjansen: Boy, if you thought Debian hated you... ;) |
| 23:25.24 | sjansen | heh |
| 23:25.33 | mheath | .... |
| 23:25.35 | levi | sjansen: Just wait til you see how much Debian GNU/Hurd hates you! |
| 23:25.41 | mheath | You know whats funny |
| 23:26.01 | mheath | I can imagine a conversation very similar to this happening 15 years ago, if Linus Torvalds was talking to some Minix users. |
| 23:26.21 | sjansen | Except that Hurd was started before then and Linux actually produced something. |
| 23:26.44 | mheath | How as Hurd not produced anything? |
| 23:27.00 | mheath | They work hard as hell and pump out a lot of good stuff for having about 30 active developers. |
| 23:27.01 | tensai | mheath: yeah, that conversation happened. http://people.fluidsignal.com/~luferbu/misc/Linus_vs_Tanenbaum.html |
| 23:27.03 | levi | mheath: Produced something that people use for real things. |
| 23:27.15 | sjansen | Still no production kernel? Still ia32 only? No sound card support, to say nothing of LVM, etc? |
| 23:27.24 | mheath | It has sound card support. |
| 23:27.46 | mheath | Its support for architectures has broadened with L4 |
| 23:28.24 | sjansen | When gnu.org runs on it for 3 months, we'll talk. |
| 23:28.43 | mheath | And by the way |
| 23:28.48 | mheath | You can implement LVM |
| 23:28.53 | hans | hurd is cool, it's amazing, it's much further along than it was, and I will never discount it as a future contender. But right now it's mostly just too little too late |
| 23:28.56 | mheath | Thats not something that *should* be implemented by the Hurd. |
| 23:29.01 | hans | that may change, that would be cool |
| 23:29.06 | beandog | I dont suppose theres anyway to copy data between an X session and an rdesktop session is there? |
| 23:29.17 | sjansen | copy and paste |
| 23:29.21 | sjansen | text onlly |
| 23:29.32 | levi | Anyway, the hurd is a cool idea. I like it. It's just not currently very useful, and doesn't look like it's moving very quickly towards usefulness. |
| 23:29.32 | hans | but hurd's been around since before linux, and linux blossomed while hurd took forever to just germinate. which are we to be more happy about? |
| 23:29.34 | beandog | er yah, thas what I meant. |
| 23:30.03 | mheath | hans: want to know why? |
| 23:30.11 | tensai | beandog: when rdesktop gets focus it copies the local copy buffer to the remote, iirc |
| 23:30.12 | beandog | well what do you know ... |
| 23:30.15 | hans | I know why, well enough for my curiousity. |
| 23:30.22 | mheath | When Linux was first born, it was seen as an easy to use, plug-and-play replacement for MINIX. |
| 23:30.24 | beandog | tensai: thanks, I never bothered to actually try it, of course. |
| 23:30.39 | mheath | MINIX users could switch to Linux easily and flawlessly |
| 23:30.55 | sjansen | mheath, you're starting to sound like a Mac user |
| 23:31.08 | mheath | And they did, so Linux's support grew. Kernel development blossomed, new programs were written, etc. |
| 23:31.22 | mheath | Hurd didn't grab the MINIX crowd though; it wasn't intended to |
| 23:31.36 | sjansen | Same reason AMD64 has just about destroyed IA64. |
| 23:32.12 | sjansen | I used to be a Mac user. I've discovered it's more useful to be pragmattic and consider reality. |
| 23:32.15 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@translate.sento.com) |
| 23:32.38 | levi | I'm still a Mac user, and for pretty pragmatic reasons, too. |
| 23:32.50 | hans | for similar reasons, I've become less enthralled with OO and more likely to just write code that works |
| 23:32.52 | sjansen | Sure, it'd be great if we could all throw out our OS/instruction set/whatever every couple years and move to a new one, but it just isn't practical. |
| 23:32.53 | levi | I'm just not exclusively a Mac user. :) |
| 23:33.19 | mheath | sjansen: I'm considering reality. Thats why Linux is popular. I wasn't complaining about it, or arguing it. Thats just why it's popular. |
| 23:33.59 | hans | and that is why hurd is not. hurd does mostly the same thing as linux to most people but linux is here and hurd is not |
| 23:34.01 | sjansen | well then you understand why I still class the Hurd with the Lochness monster. |
| 23:34.13 | sjansen | Good for a laugh, maybe someday someone will prove that it's more. |
| 23:34.23 | mheath | I'm not saying people should make the switch. GNU isn't ready for that yet. I was just trying to justify my support of the Hurd and why I develop for it |
| 23:34.27 | mheath | And why I use it for my main desktop |
| 23:34.30 | hans | last week, scientists explaced... |
| 23:34.42 | hans | japanese scientists, sorry |
| 23:35.40 | mheath | hans: you can do the same things in Linux? Could I do something like "mount user@ftp.mysite.com /mnt/ftp" in Linux ? |
| 23:35.44 | mheath | :) |
| 23:36.01 | mheath | Or, let me reword that |
| 23:36.16 | mheath | Could I do that without adding any features to my kernel, entirely from an unpriveleged user account? |
| 23:36.25 | Jayce^ | KDE does that |
| 23:36.35 | mheath | KDE mounts ftp shares? |
| 23:36.42 | mheath | How? |
| 23:36.49 | Jayce^ | not sure how much is it's own stuff, and how much is kernel |
| 23:36.53 | hans | anytime something like that starts to go into the kernel the biggest opposition is security people. they make everything cool a wet blanket |
| 23:36.55 | levi | An abstraction layer, I believe. |
| 23:37.09 | mheath | hans: thats not in the kernel. |
| 23:37.09 | hans | I'm sure hurd can do things that linux can't, and vice versa. I'm talking generalizations here. |
| 23:37.15 | levi | It doesn't actually get mounted, but it looks like it from the user tools. |
| 23:37.26 | mheath | levi: exactly :) |
| 23:37.32 | hans | so? |
| 23:37.33 | sjansen | mheath: Gnome does too. gnome-vfs |
| 23:37.42 | levi | mheath: So, in the end, it doesn't matter at what level it happens. |
| 23:37.55 | mheath | Heres another question |
| 23:38.01 | Maquis | i jumped my car today |
| 23:38.11 | hans | linux is monolithic. theoretically inferior. but it's pragmatically superior, so outside of the university there's not much point in arguing it |
| 23:38.13 | beandog | wtg Maquis |
| 23:38.14 | Maquis | (well, actually, i suppose my involvement in the jumping was minimal... |
| 23:38.18 | Maquis | but... still) |
| 23:38.23 | mheath | In Linux, could I write a program that replaces a files read/write/open functions with its own rather than the host filesystems? |
| 23:38.27 | sjansen | Well, it does to a degree as gnome-vfs or kde's vfs are only available to app's that know about it. |
| 23:38.38 | levi | Maquis: Did you clear it? |
| 23:38.40 | sjansen | ~congratulate Maquis |
| 23:38.42 | ibot | ACTION congratulates Maquis on being a new owner of a $500 brick. |
| 23:38.48 | Maquis | levi: :) |
| 23:38.54 | beandog | heh |
| 23:39.29 | sjansen | mheath: not sure what you mean by that question |
| 23:39.35 | levi | sjansen: Right, but if it was important to people, it could be added into lower-level utilities. |
| 23:39.50 | sjansen | But basically, yes. |
| 23:40.03 | mheath | sjansen: say I type "echo "bleh" >> /etc/myfile" |
| 23:40.25 | hans | someday a better kernel might come along. maybe even GNU/* will get replaced by something better. if it does, it will be because something better came onto the scene, differentiated itself, and proved itself |
| 23:40.27 | mheath | The kernel's fileystem code handles all read/write/open/close requests for that file, right? |
| 23:40.28 | sjansen | (ignoring, or course, the syntax error) |
| 23:40.43 | hans | hurd may be that thing. based on it's track record I'm not holding my breath, but it certainly could |
| 23:40.47 | sjansen | hans: and wasn't too expensive to move to |
| 23:40.48 | levi | mheath: In linux, read/write/open are kernel calls, and defined for different file types in the kernel. |
| 23:41.04 | hans | sjansen: yes |
| 23:41.09 | levi | mheath: device files have read/write/open defined in the device driver for that particular file, for example. |
| 23:41.09 | sjansen | mheath: not entirely, glibc inserts itself too |
| 23:41.24 | mheath | sjansen: well, yes... |
| 23:41.28 | mheath | But heres the question |
| 23:42.05 | mheath | Could I make it so, when I try to read/write from /etc/myfile, some calls *other* than the kernels read/write/open/close calls handles it? |
| 23:42.10 | hans | sjansen: but cost is one of the obstacles linux has too, and yet it makes strides. it has differentiated itself and proved itself |
| 23:42.45 | levi | mheath: In the hurd, if a program generates a fault, can you interactively replace the function that caused the problem and restart execution? |
| 23:43.01 | sjansen | hans: the strides have mostly been in the form of reducing the cost of change |
| 23:43.08 | hans | ha, I knew squeak would come in sooner or later. ;-) |
| 23:43.13 | sjansen | heh |
| 23:43.21 | levi | hans: Not talking about squeak, necessarily, though it does it too. |
| 23:43.44 | mheath | levi: if a translator on the file /etc/myfile fails/quits, the actual phyiscal filesystem's stuff will replace it. |
| 23:43.45 | hans | squeak vs. hurd! get your programs! popcorn! hotdogs! |
| 23:43.54 | levi | hans: It's just a feature that has existed in operating systems before that makes them extremely flexible and powerful to programmers. |
| 23:44.49 | *** join/#utah peregrine (~lamontp@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 23:44.53 | levi | I was referring to an anecdote I read involving Genera, the OS that ran on the lisp machines. |
| 23:46.52 | peregrine | sjansen, you smell like poo |
| 23:47.13 | sjansen | peregrine: you smell like australian poo |
| 23:47.13 | levi | Some guy was using some third-party software he didn't have the source to. It had a stack overflow due to deep recursion. When it occurred, he was able to open a dynamic debugger. The debugger let him disassemble the routine's machine code, from which he was able to generate some lisp code that compiled to the same asm. He then rewrote it in iterative form, compiled it, and replaced the one in the image with his. He then resumed computation a |
| 23:47.13 | levi | s if nothing had happened. |
| 23:47.18 | peregrine | I should not have let emcnabb type on my keyboard, dang it. |
| 23:48.42 | levi | Those are the kind of features I'm interested in. I don't care if they're built on top of the Hurd or Linux or qnx or whatever. |
| 23:51.27 | levi | Boy, I sure killed that conversation. |
| 23:51.43 | hans | i think people are going home |
| 23:51.45 | hans | like me |
| 23:51.46 | peregrine | I was wondering what it would take to kill it. |
| 23:52.12 | levi | Bringing up Lisp and Smalltalk, apparently. |
| 23:52.27 | sjansen | Now what I'd like to see is the Hurd implementing features from Plan9. |
| 23:55.03 | Maquis | who's peregrine? |
| 23:55.14 | Jayce^ | a really strange guy |
| 23:55.38 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 23:55.41 | Maquis | peregrine: hi? |
| 23:55.48 | goozbach | another guru, Maquis |
| 23:55.57 | Jayce^ | poor soul |
| 23:56.00 | sjansen | Lamont Peterson |
| 23:56.03 | Maquis | hmmm another one?? |
| 23:56.14 | sjansen | Recently returned from a month long journey about the south. |
| 23:56.16 | *** join/#utah slag6900 (~slag6900@slacknet.com) |
| 23:56.17 | Maquis | ho many are there? |
| 23:56.24 | slag6900 | i am so bored |
| 23:56.27 | sjansen | As in cruise to Australia, Japan, etc. |
| 23:56.31 | goozbach | Maquis: more than you can count |
| 23:56.42 | sjansen | We will rule the world! |
| 23:56.52 | goozbach | and they'll keep coming, till we've taken over the world |
| 23:56.54 | slag6900 | i need to find a girl to play with my penis. |
| 23:56.59 | goozbach | BUHAHAH |
| 23:57.06 | Maquis | australia and japan? |
| 23:57.06 | sjansen | We are all part of the Guru mind. |
| 23:57.07 | goozbach | Jayce^: if you please... |
| 23:57.19 | Maquis | wo... i didnt want to see that... |
| 23:57.31 | slag6900 | ohh |
| 23:57.36 | slag6900 | fucking mormon twits |
| 23:57.38 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 23:57.38 | *** part/#utah slag6900 (~slag6900@slacknet.com) |
| 23:57.58 | levi | Apparently he wanted an excuse to bait the mormons. |
| 23:58.03 | sjansen | twit |
| 23:58.31 | *** join/#utah slag6900 (~slag6900@slacknet.com) |
| 23:58.38 | slag6900 | fucking /server command |
| 23:58.39 | *** part/#utah slag6900 (~slag6900@slacknet.com) |
| 23:58.57 | levi | Heh. Nice guy. |
| 23:59.02 | goozbach | opps! |
| 23:59.10 | goozbach | shouldn't have left it open |
| 23:59.13 | Jayce^ | sorry, was at the neighbors desk |
| 23:59.18 | Jayce^ | will get him next time |
| 23:59.26 | goozbach | ok good |
| 23:59.54 | Maquis | peregrine: it's nice to meet you... |
| 23:59.56 | peregrine | The cruise was Autralia/New Zealand; we flew to Japan and had a couple of days layover before heading to Oz. |
