| 00:00.18 | emcnabb | Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance |
| 00:00.24 | emcnabb | the most worthless book ever |
| 00:00.29 | levi | sjansen: Uh, you didn't read very carefully, did you? |
| 00:01.37 | emcnabb | levi, I did, and it sucked |
| 00:02.57 | levi | Geez, you guys need some appreciation for liberal arts in your education. |
| 00:03.45 | emcnabb | so if I take a dump on the floor, is that art too? |
| 00:03.59 | sjansen | Depends on what you mean by liberal arts. Much of what I experienced was pointless posturing. |
| 00:04.14 | emcnabb | it was pointless rambling |
| 00:04.20 | sjansen | There were some useful things and a lot of useless stuff. |
| 00:04.33 | levi | No, it's not pointless. If you think it was pointless, you didn't understand. |
| 00:04.44 | levi | Or chose to ignore. |
| 00:04.52 | emcnabb | haha |
| 00:05.08 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 00:05.30 | levi | Anyway, I don't have the time right now to discuss the merits of the liberal arts. It's time for me to spin. |
| 00:06.02 | emcnabb | I like all types of art and literature |
| 00:06.08 | emcnabb | but Zen is horrible |
| 00:06.44 | sjansen | "Look at me! I propose reading the Great Gatsby as if the main character were black. Aren't I brilliant? I'm improving the state of humanity!" |
| 00:07.09 | levi | Nice straw man you've got there. |
| 00:07.55 | sjansen | Well, you've trying to built a rather unimpressive straw man too. Just because I think Zen is waste of paper you thinnk I'm unworthy. |
| 00:08.02 | emcnabb | exactly |
| 00:08.08 | levi | That's not a straw man. |
| 00:08.30 | levi | Maybe a poor jump to a conclusion, though. |
| 00:08.48 | tene | Your argument that he's using a straw man is just a straw man argument! |
| 00:08.48 | goozbach | yeah not a straw man |
| 00:08.51 | goozbach | ... yet |
| 00:08.52 | levi | And you're misrepresenting my characterization to you. I said you were blind, not unworthy. |
| 00:08.53 | sjansen | Okay: What did Zen teach you about writing higher quality software? Or doing anything with higher quality? |
| 00:09.25 | emcnabb | so if I write a book that you think is crap, I can call you blind |
| 00:09.39 | tene | or call him a straw man |
| 00:09.39 | emcnabb | I like it |
| 00:09.57 | emcnabb | that means everything out there is art |
| 00:09.59 | sjansen | You're uninitated. You can't understand this. You can't see it because you're blind. I swear the emporer has magnificent clothes, you just can't see them! |
| 00:10.24 | emcnabb | look, I spilled my paint on the floor |
| 00:10.26 | emcnabb | that is art! |
| 00:10.26 | levi | sjansen: I'm not saying you can't understand it, or that you're not initiated. |
| 00:10.30 | brailsmt | CS 400 (or 404 or whatever the danged ethics clas is) is terribly biased against the book... |
| 00:10.43 | brailsmt | most people that read the book in that class don't like it... |
| 00:10.43 | sjansen | What did I miss from Zen? What is this great insight you gained. |
| 00:10.58 | levi | sjansen: When I finish, I'll write an essay about it, okay? |
| 00:11.00 | emcnabb | brailsmt, and most people I have talked to since have hated it |
| 00:11.12 | emcnabb | people that never took the class |
| 00:11.14 | sjansen | All I got out of it was the enjoyable feeling of my brain parsing words ordered in a non-standard manner. |
| 00:11.16 | brailsmt | and they first read it... in that class... |
| 00:11.21 | emcnabb | no, they didn't |
| 00:11.23 | sjansen | Similar to reading a good Russian novell. |
| 00:11.47 | emcnabb | people who read it back in the 60's or 70's (whenever it was) and thought it was stupid back then |
| 00:12.13 | sjansen | But whereas Russian novels are intended to entertain and do, Zen was intended to instruct and doesn't. |
| 00:12.24 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (~mac@69.2.248.251) |
| 00:13.02 | levi | I think you're probably missing the point of some of your Russian novels, too. |
| 00:13.24 | levi | And I'm finding the book highly entertaining. |
| 00:14.08 | levi | Not many classic novels were written just to entertain. |
| 00:14.34 | emcnabb | since when did Zen become a classic? |
| 00:14.43 | flyboy^ | I read about half of Zen. |
| 00:14.59 | levi | emcnabb: I was referring to the Russian novels. |
| 00:15.11 | flyboy^ | I could see the point - basically - do what it is that makes you happy and don't do stuff that makes you unhappy - if you can - and it doesn't cost too much. |
| 00:15.40 | levi | I hate arguing with people who can't debate rationally. I'm spinning now; bye. |
| 00:15.46 | emcnabb | haha |
| 00:16.01 | emcnabb | that's a good excusing for backing up your point |
| 00:16.13 | emcnabb | you're not rational because you don't like the book I like! |
| 00:16.35 | flyboy^ | Humm - it seems to me that the very point the book makes, you two are experiencing. |
| 00:16.53 | flyboy^ | That's kind of - ironic? Is that the right word? Probably not. Funny is a good word. |
| 00:17.13 | fozz | ~seen jsmith |
| 00:17.15 | ibot | jsmith <~jsmith@smithfam.dsl.xmission.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 18h 30m 29s ago, saying: 'G'night all...'. |
| 00:17.17 | emcnabb | I didn't see that as the theme of the book |
| 00:17.43 | flyboy^ | Perhaps we each saw something different in the same book. |
| 00:17.44 | fozz | Hmmm. Does Lolita count as a good Russian novel? |
| 00:17.47 | sjansen | I am deliberately over-simplifying. Most classic novel weren't meant to entertain. My use of "straw man" was technically incorrect, although the spirit of the comment holds. |
| 00:17.59 | sjansen | But Zen was still a waste! |
| 00:18.54 | flyboy^ | Wast to you, classic to someone else. Kinda funny how that works some times. :) |
| 00:19.01 | emcnabb | yup :-) |
| 00:19.40 | sjansen | I consider it kinda funny that you can sum up in a more understandable sentence what he took pages to dance around. |
| 00:20.31 | flyboy^ | It's the dancing that makes money. |
| 00:20.48 | *** part/#utah spig (~spig@translate.sento.com) |
| 00:21.55 | flyboy^ | I thought that parts of it made sense, and were good, and other parts seemed like an advertisment for motercycles. |
| 00:22.06 | flyboy^ | And then, other parts were totally a waste. ;) |
| 00:22.25 | flyboy^ | But I only read half, so - maybe the last half ruins the first. |
| 00:23.21 | emcnabb | well, I think the book's main theme is quality |
| 00:23.25 | emcnabb | what is quality? |
| 00:23.33 | emcnabb | how do you define it? |
| 00:23.35 | sjansen | I think that's part of it. It goes down hill as he gets crazier. |
| 00:23.40 | emcnabb | what are is't qualities? |
| 00:23.55 | emcnabb | but he does a HORRIBLE job of explaining himself |
| 00:24.17 | Maquis | you guys are still talking about this? |
| 00:24.20 | emcnabb | it is the ramblings of a crazy man |
| 00:24.23 | tene | Nope, we're not. |
| 00:24.34 | emcnabb | I personally don't like reading the ramblings of a crazy man |
| 00:24.36 | Maquis | you were talking about this when i headed off to cs404 at 1:30... |
| 00:24.37 | flyboy^ | It's something to talk about until somone changes the subject. |
| 00:24.47 | emcnabb | so, how about them Cubs? |
| 00:24.52 | emcnabb | big season coming up |
| 00:25.18 | flyboy^ | I don't know anything about the Cubs. |
| 00:25.38 | flyboy^ | I'm a geek. Ask me about some geek related thing, and maybe we can talk. :) |
| 00:25.44 | emcnabb | haha |
| 00:25.48 | Maquis | ummm... |
| 00:25.50 | Maquis | ok... |
| 00:26.07 | Maquis | so i run /usr/sbin/ndiswrapper -i <installer.inf> |
| 00:26.19 | Maquis | i'm not sure (from the manpage) what i have to do next... |
| 00:26.22 | sjansen | levi brought it up about half an hour ago |
| 00:26.41 | Maquis | does it just work after that? |
| 00:26.55 | sjansen | Then emcnabb and I started flinging our poo at him and calling it art, so he left. |
| 00:27.10 | Maquis | yeah... i'd leave too... |
| 00:27.32 | Maquis | bah... i don't think this is working |
| 00:27.33 | Maquis | :( |
| 00:27.34 | emcnabb | well, we just told our opinions, just like he gave his |
| 00:27.45 | Maquis | yes... well, i can stand that... |
| 00:27.50 | Maquis | just not having poo flung at me... :) |
| 00:28.25 | emcnabb | http://www.moq.org/ |
| 00:28.29 | emcnabb | enjoy |
| 00:29.32 | Maquis | emcnabb: that doesn't help with ndiswrapper |
| 00:29.46 | emcnabb | it's about quality |
| 00:29.51 | emcnabb | don't you like quality? |
| 00:30.12 | Maquis | emcnabb: i do... but i also like having a wireless card... |
| 00:31.05 | Maquis | my head feels like it's going to explode... or implode... or something... |
| 00:31.27 | sjansen | Maquis: You don't want to use ndiswrapper. ndiswrapper uses non-Free binaries. You're giving up your freedom. |
| 00:31.36 | Maquis | sjansen: that's great... |
| 00:31.42 | sjansen | Throw the card out a window and buy one that respects your freedom. |
| 00:31.48 | Maquis | but i got a WG511 with the wrong chipset |
| 00:32.11 | Maquis | and from what the guys on #prism54 said, it's a temporary thing |
| 00:33.44 | Maquis | so... anybody??? |
| 00:33.46 | Maquis | please??? |
| 00:34.27 | Maquis | i'm googling, but not having a ton of success... |
| 00:34.28 | Maquis | :( |
| 00:35.22 | emcnabb | well, i've never used it before (ndiswrapper) |
| 00:35.41 | Maquis | hmmm... |
| 00:35.51 | xbmodder | ? |
| 00:36.01 | xbmodder | hey! |
| 00:36.03 | xbmodder | sup all... |
| 00:39.46 | flyboy^ | Has anyone in here ever plaed A Tale In the Desert? |
| 00:39.58 | sjansen | A drop tile ceiling, some flourescent lights, a couple air vents, and a video projector. |
| 00:41.28 | sjansen | If this is a temporary problem, roll back to a working kernel. |
| 00:41.55 | Maquis | sjansen: it's temporary because they're in the process of getting a new driver underway... |
| 00:47.19 | *** join/#utah rehatalpha (~al@24.10.202.248) |
| 00:57.57 | xbmodder | Maquis, sup1 |
| 01:05.03 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 01:11.52 | xbmodder | Maquis, hey how ya doing? |
| 01:15.19 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-52.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:21.47 | xbmodder | drewbono, hello ums! |