| 00:00.02 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 00:02.55 | macnewbold | scott_: a lot of investments have a minimum - say 100 shares, for example, which may be $4000 for something that's $40/share |
| 00:07.12 | tene | so question |
| 00:07.16 | tene | for the perlguys |
| 00:07.30 | tene | What's the best way to execute one perl script from within another? |
| 00:07.31 | byronc | bonez39: gnucash does everything I need. |
| 00:10.36 | bonez39 | byronc: ah...that's good....quick question.. |
| 00:12.07 | bonez39 | for whatever reason, from running sid/sarge/untesting/unstable to langoliers hanging out in my system..I can't run gnucash....on it now..as compiled...is there any reason I shouldn't be able to get it running though, if I get a new hard drive..and set up the latest kernel on new drive..and get it running there...with just woody.....debian.....? could i then hook up current drive and access everything on it? without causing gnucash any trouble? |
| 00:12.13 | bonez39 | I know I ask a lot....please forgive |
| 00:15.13 | byronc | bonez39: that should be fine. gnucash stores all the account and transaction information in a single xml file, so you'll just need to point gnucash at the file. |
| 00:15.32 | bonez39 | ok...... |
| 00:15.45 | bonez39 | new drive soon then..I am getting behind by NOT having gnucash running.... |
| 00:35.59 | spr | vim peoples: how do i show special characters in a file (newlines, etc)? |
| 00:37.39 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@67.137.25.66) |
| 00:43.49 | spr | never mind. |
| 00:56.06 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@209.197.11.63) |
| 00:59.34 | *** join/#utah Maquis|home (~znege@evrtwa1-ar5-4-65-002-104.evrtwa1.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 01:18.53 | Maquis|home | howdy all... |
| 01:20.42 | goozbach | howdy Maquis|home |
| 01:20.52 | Maquis|home | goo! :) how's life? |
| 01:21.05 | goozbach | not too shabby |
| 01:21.17 | goozbach | two weeks vacation (in a row) |
| 01:21.21 | Maquis|home | nice! |
| 01:21.39 | goozbach | dialup is not internet access |
| 01:21.49 | Maquis|home | i have wireless internet at home... |
| 01:21.55 | Maquis|home | unfortunately....... |
| 01:23.34 | goozbach | it's faster than dialup, no? |
| 01:24.25 | Maquis|home | sure... |
| 01:24.40 | Maquis|home | if your wireless card doesn't commit suicide |
| 01:25.24 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 01:25.56 | Maquis|home | (why are we throwing rocks?) |
| 01:26.21 | tene | they're attention-getting rocks. |
| 01:26.33 | Maquis|home | oh... |
| 01:31.08 | Maquis|home | stupid mac! |
| 01:32.52 | drewbono | Maquis|home: Watch your language there... :) |
| 01:33.24 | Maquis|home | drewbono: i'm stuck with nothing but macs for internet access for 2 whole weeks... what do you expect |
| 01:33.26 | Maquis|home | ??? |
| 01:33.39 | drewbono | you to have a HUGE grin on your face. :-) |
| 01:34.03 | goozbach | Maquis|home: >= OSX? |
| 01:34.12 | Maquis|home | goozbach: yes... osx |
| 01:34.27 | drewbono | Open up the terminal and you'll feel right as rain. |
| 01:34.33 | goozbach | then why are you complaining? they have a terminal |
| 01:34.37 | Maquis|home | the stupid thing doesn't copy when i highlight things, and nothing works quite right |
| 01:35.01 | Maquis|home | none of my software is here |
| 01:35.09 | Maquis|home | and i can't get to my server because OIT is stupid! |
| 01:36.54 | drewbono | Install Fink and X11 and apt-get all you want... |
| 01:37.05 | drewbono | Is your server on campus then? |
| 01:37.11 | tene | what do you want on your server? |
| 01:37.43 | Maquis|home | drewbono: yes, my server is in my apartment, which is on-campus |
| 01:37.59 | Maquis|home | tene: my screen session, mutt, my life..... |
| 01:38.20 | drewbono | So why can't you get to your server? |
| 01:38.56 | Maquis|home | drewbono: my parents freak out if i so much as open a terminal... installing software on their computer is not something that would make them happy... they think that all the unix stuff breaks computers... |
| 01:39.03 | drewbono | LOL |
| 01:39.34 | Maquis|home | i can't get to my server because once a week (monday morning at 4:15), OIT knocks all computers off the internet until they authenticate to the server... |
| 01:39.53 | Maquis|home | i haven't gotten around to figuring out vontrapp's script and modifying it to my needs |
| 01:39.55 | drewbono | Maquis|home: If you have a CAEDM account, or any other way to SSH into a public box on campus, you can get to your server. |
| 01:40.30 | Maquis|home | drewbono: i was able to get in through my cs account until they kicked the server completely off the net until it authenticates :( |
| 01:41.27 | drewbono | I didn't know they did that... |
| 01:41.35 | Maquis|home | it's a new "feature" |
| 01:41.38 | drewbono | So how do they want you to authenticate? |
| 01:41.50 | Maquis|home | well, you have to go to a website using that computer... |
| 01:42.08 | Maquis|home | unfortunately, in order to do that, you have to be able to access the computer |
| 01:42.23 | drewbono | Connecting wirelessly? |
| 01:42.42 | Maquis|home | this is for on-campus ethernet |
| 01:42.52 | Maquis|home | although their wireless access works the same way |
| 01:42.55 | drewbono | Stink-o-rama. They're cracking down. |
| 01:43.18 | drewbono | If you set up a cron job to curl the page with authentication, that might work, eh? |
| 01:43.24 | drewbono | Is that what vontrapp's script does? |
| 01:43.33 | goozbach | Maquis|home: you could beg someone here to help with a vpn |
| 01:44.06 | Maquis|home | vontrapp's script runs out, checks to see if you're already authenticated, and if you aren't, it authenticates... |
| 01:44.15 | Maquis|home | at least i think that's what it does... |
| 01:44.24 | Maquis|home | goo: i want my box though :( |
| 01:44.26 | Maquis|home | or my laptop |
| 01:44.28 | Maquis|home | one of them |
| 01:45.49 | goozbach | Maquis|home: if you're on the vpn and a member of said vpn is out in the world, then you'll have access to your box. |
| 01:46.16 | goozbach | fozz: ping? |
| 01:46.20 | Maquis|home | goo: not really... |
| 01:46.48 | Maquis|home | the way that OIT works, i'd have to have physical access to do anything with my box right now |
| 01:48.20 | Maquis|home | prism54.org is dead... did they move someplace? |
| 01:49.17 | goozbach | enen with outboud? |
| 01:49.30 | Maquis|home | goozbach: ???? |
| 01:56.39 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-52.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:56.51 | goozbach | stupid lag |
| 01:56.58 | goozbach | meaks me sound stupid |
| 01:57.08 | goozbach | s/meaks/makes |
| 01:57.14 | Maquis|home | goo: i understand... tis ok... :) |
| 01:57.39 | goozbach | even the outbound traffic is affected by this auth schemea? |
| 01:58.19 | Maquis|home | goozbach: dunno, but if you can't get in, how would you be able to go out? |
| 01:59.11 | Maquis|home | please tell me that the network here is wrong: i just tried going to newegg.com, and my browser says: "No website is configured at this address" |
| 01:59.48 | Maquis|home | other websites work fine |
| 02:01.52 | Maquis|home | is anyone else having this problem??? |
| 02:02.45 | goozbach | no problem here |
| 02:02.53 | Maquis|home | gah! |
| 02:03.00 | Maquis|home | can you get to prism54.org? |
| 02:04.17 | Maquis|home | goo: can you get there??? |
| 02:04.27 | goozbach | it's hard to be witty with such crappy latency |
| 02:04.39 | Maquis|home | goo: where are you? |
| 02:04.56 | goozbach | dns failure |
| 02:05.19 | goozbach | home(as in parent's home-- hicksville) |
| 02:05.19 | Maquis|home | at least your problem is lag... you don't get rejected by all the websites you want to visit |
| 02:05.58 | Maquis|home | what exactly does it mean by "no website is configured at this address"??? how do i configure the website? |
| 02:08.04 | goozbach | probally an upstream proxy server giving you a warning about an nxdomain errror |
| 02:08.05 | tene | that's a hosting thing, Maquis. |
| 02:08.19 | Maquis|home | :( |
| 02:08.27 | goozbach | I'm getting a dns reply with host |
| 02:08.33 | Maquis|home | i just want to order a stupid wireless card!!! |
| 02:09.35 | goozbach | I'm getting a refused connection at the moment |
| 02:09.45 | Maquis|home | at newegg? |
| 02:09.53 | Maquis|home | i'm pinging them, and not getting anything back |
| 02:09.59 | goozbach | prism.org |
| 02:10.05 | Maquis|home | ah... |
| 02:10.12 | Maquis|home | prism54.org? bah... |
| 02:10.17 | goozbach | newegg gets me everything |
| 02:10.44 | goozbach | I'm buying some stuff want me to throw it into my cart? |
| 02:10.56 | Maquis|home | well, i don't know what i want to get :) |
| 02:11.06 | Maquis|home | tracerouting right now... |
| 02:11.17 | Maquis|home | see why it's dying |
| 02:11.30 | goozbach | I'm guessing proxy server |
| 02:11.48 | Maquis|home | goo: question for you... in those "break scripts" that you guys do, do you ever mess with /sbin/rc ? |
| 02:12.02 | Maquis|home | there's lots of cool stuff you could mess with there that would probably take a long time to find... :) |
| 02:12.21 | Maquis|home | goo: ummm how far down the line would the proxy server be? |
| 02:12.29 | goozbach | can you get to http://users.netradius.com/~goozbach |
| 02:12.46 | goozbach | Maquis|home: no, that would be evil however |
| 02:12.58 | Maquis|home | goo: got there |
| 02:13.05 | goozbach | we mostly stick to configureation files not executables |
| 02:13.46 | Maquis|home | goo: if i had a knoppix cd with me, i would've played around a bit with some things i found... i was curious about what various things did, and whether it was possible to change them certain ways.... |
| 02:14.01 | Maquis|home | but when i'm stuck without a knoppix cd, i'm not going to risk anything... :) |
| 02:14.35 | Maquis|home | interesting... i'e been staying at the same ip address for about 20 hops... |
| 02:14.39 | Maquis|home | what does that mean? |
| 02:15.15 | goozbach | broken route |
| 02:15.15 | Maquis|home | abs-2.border1.ext1a.lax.pnap.net (64.94.111.114) |
| 02:15.25 | Maquis|home | is there a way to tell it to take a different route? |
| 02:15.43 | goozbach | well I was gonna suggest you use a proxy server that I use sometimes but it's been turned off |
| 02:16.07 | Maquis|home | ah... |
| 02:16.17 | goozbach | not that deep, you'd have to have admin rights to the router at that level |
| 02:16.24 | Maquis|home | bah... |
| 02:16.27 | Newsome | what do you get for "host www.newegg.com"? |
| 02:16.39 | goozbach | you could try and send it some icmp errors but that might not work |
| 02:17.47 | Maquis|home | question: does ndiswrapper work for just about any card? |
| 02:17.52 | Maquis|home | or will it only work for some? |
| 02:18.30 | goozbach | goozbach@dante:~$ host www.newegg.com |
| 02:18.31 | goozbach | www.newegg.com has address 216.52.208.185 |
| 02:19.08 | Maquis|home | goo: i got the ip address while trying to ping, but even using that, i couldn't get there :( |
| 02:19.10 | goozbach | I'd say get the cisco or ibm card and have it run natively |
| 02:19.30 | Maquis|home | goo: cisco or ibm card? how much are they? |
| 02:19.30 | goozbach | yep broken route then |
| 02:19.36 | goozbach | $$$ |
| 02:19.55 | goozbach | you looking minipci or pcmcia? |
| 02:19.57 | Newsome | very odd. It works from lynx on my CS account, but not from my linode or DSL at home |
| 02:20.03 | Maquis|home | pcmcia |
| 02:20.10 | goozbach | cisco then |
| 02:20.10 | Maquis|home | newsome: glad to know i'm not the only one..... |
| 02:20.48 | Maquis|home | or at least that works in linux |
| 02:21.09 | Maquis|home | preferably with prism driver... |
| 02:21.32 | Maquis|home | i'd take a prism2 (although it'd be really nice if it was actually recognized as such) |
| 02:21.55 | goozbach | http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=cisco+802.11+pcmcia+&btnG=Search+Froogle |
| 02:22.26 | Maquis|home | hahaha |
| 02:22.31 | Maquis|home | nice try |
| 02:22.44 | Maquis|home | i'm thinking cheap... |
| 02:23.23 | Maquis|home | newegg had some 802.11g cards in the 30$ range... |
| 02:23.34 | Maquis|home | just needed to check on linux compatibility on those |
| 03:01.02 | tensai | Maquis|home: I got a netgear wg511 for $60 plus a $20 rebate. It works great. Monitor mode support was very important to me. |
| 03:01.26 | Maquis|home | tensai: i'd like monitor mode as well... that's why i want a card that's well-supported... :) |
| 03:01.27 | tensai | hans got a cheap card. I don't recall what it was. |
| 03:01.41 | tensai | ndiswrapper doesn't support monitor mode iirc |
| 03:01.49 | Maquis|home | are there any cheap ones that still have monitor mode and such? |
| 03:02.08 | tensai | I think the one hans got did |
| 03:02.44 | Maquis|home | hmmm... going to have to bug him about that... :) |
| 03:02.45 | tensai | my only complaint about the wg511 is the lack of an external antenna jack |
| 03:05.05 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-52.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:15.52 | jsmith-writing | tensai: My only complaint about my wg511 was that it broke after about two months. |
| 03:16.25 | tensai | that would make it difficult to use |
| 03:16.46 | Maquis|home | jsmith: warranty? |
| 03:55.01 | goozbach | woot! it's come down in price! http://www.xenarcdirect.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=700TS |
| 03:56.00 | Maquis|home | car media player? |
| 03:56.13 | Maquis|home | linux? |
| 03:56.17 | Maquis|home | (i hope...) |
| 03:56.47 | Maquis|home | how long will it take for newegg to come back? |
| 03:57.22 | goozbach | unknown |
| 03:57.33 | Maquis|home | blegh |
| 03:57.37 | Maquis|home | hey! |
| 03:57.42 | Maquis|home | it came this time! |
| 03:57.51 | Maquis|home | i should ask questions like that more often |
| 03:58.00 | goozbach | heh |
| 03:58.12 | goozbach | ... now! |
| 03:59.29 | Maquis|home | oh... question for you... in /etc/inittab or /sbin/rc (can't remember which), there was a spot where it was initializing the ctrl-alt-f1 through ctrl-alt-f6 consoles... (at least i think that's what it was doing)... i was wondering what would happen if you added additional ones... would it automatically move the graphical console window? or would it crash? is there a limit to the number of consoles allowed? |
| 04:00.26 | goozbach | it would move the graphicical console up. |
| 04:00.34 | goozbach | it's in /etc/inittab |
| 04:00.40 | goozbach | the mingetty lines |
| 04:00.52 | goozbach | just add another one using the next tty device for an option |
| 04:01.25 | goozbach | if you modify your DM's config file you can specifiy which console to connect to. |
| 04:01.36 | goozbach | it should default to the next avalible one |
| 04:07.25 | Maquis|home | ah.... mmmk |
| 04:07.28 | Maquis|home | i was curious... |
| 04:08.12 | Maquis|home | ended up discovering a lot of things, and formulating a long list of random questions |
| 04:08.19 | Maquis|home | most of which i can't remember off the top of my head |
| 04:08.53 | goozbach | so... do I spend ~$800 on my new server or ~$700 for my net phone first? |
| 04:08.58 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-52.client.comcast.net) |
| 04:09.05 | goozbach | s/net/new |
| 04:09.33 | goozbach | my christmas bonus is burning a hole in my pocket |
| 04:09.33 | Maquis|home | ummm... i don't think i've ever asked questions with that kind of numbers in them... |
| 04:09.54 | goozbach | or do I buy a music player for $430 |
| 04:10.12 | Maquis|home | my question was just "so, do i spend 40$ for wireless card A or 60$ for wireless card B?" |
| 04:10.26 | Maquis|home | what music player is $430??? |
| 04:10.33 | goozbach | or do I start buying parts for my car mp3 player |
| 04:10.38 | goozbach | an Iriver |
| 04:10.51 | Maquis|home | are those better than ipods? |
| 04:11.15 | goozbach | http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/H340.aspx |
| 04:11.21 | spr | mmm...ogg support |
| 04:11.22 | goozbach | very much so |
| 04:11.37 | goozbach | ogg support, none of this itunes crap |
| 04:12.05 | goozbach | just a simple usb storage device and whala your music is on your device |
| 04:12.12 | goozbach | fm tuner |
| 04:12.18 | Maquis|home | hmmm... |
| 04:12.21 | goozbach | 40GB hard drive |
| 04:12.30 | goozbach | emcnabb has one |
| 04:12.48 | goozbach | as does my boss brian |
| 04:14.09 | Maquis|home | question... on the wg511, is the 5$ extended warranty coverage from newegg worth it? |
| 04:14.51 | Maquis|home | i'm leaning toward getting it because it seems like it would be useful... |
| 04:15.30 | goozbach | better to have and not need than to need and not have... |
| 04:15.43 | Maquis|home | it says that it extends the warranty by 1 year... i suppose that's not bad for 5$... |
| 04:16.55 | hans | ~lart singapore |
| 04:18.16 | Maquis|home | hans: what's the problem now? |
| 04:18.50 | Maquis|home | hans: what company do you work for? seems rather interesting :) |
| 04:19.49 | drewbono | Shouldn't that be a kill -9 instead? :-) |
| 04:22.15 | jsmith-writing | goozbach: I'd go for the IP hpone... |
| 04:32.57 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~cfe4175f@buscaluz.org) |
| 04:33.12 | Maquis|home | howdy sjansen |
| 04:33.38 | sjansen | howdy |
| 04:34.03 | Maquis|home | "How long is this Beta guy going to keep testing our stuff?" ~quote from a boss... :) |
| 04:35.49 | Maquis|home | "the 'abort()' function is now called 'choice()'" (Politically Correct Programming) |
| 04:35.54 | goozbach | |lart sjansen |
| 04:36.01 | Maquis|home | |lart goo |
| 04:36.12 | goozbach | ~lart sjansen |
| 04:36.20 | goozbach | heh heh |
| 04:36.22 | Maquis|home | where'd brigham go? |
| 04:36.26 | Maquis|home | ~lart goo |
| 04:36.46 | goozbach | brigam come back! |
| 04:38.52 | Maquis|home | he New Testament offers the basis for modern computer coding theory, in the form of an affirmation of the binary number system. |
| 04:38.52 | Maquis|home | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:38.54 | Maquis|home | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:39.05 | sjansen | ~lart mozilla for using ctrl instead of alt for switching tabs |
| 04:39.24 | goozbach | my mozilla does alt |
| 04:39.25 | Maquis|home | sjansen: use firefox |
| 04:39.29 | sjansen | ~lart windows for, well, basically existing |
| 04:39.45 | sjansen | Maquis|home: firefox does the same |
| 04:39.56 | Maquis|home | sjansen: sucks for you! |
| 04:40.14 | sjansen | ~lart CGI:IRC for not having nick tab completion |
| 04:40.45 | Maquis|home | ~lart ircle for not having nick tab completion either |
| 04:42.37 | sjansen | ~lart xsl-fo for good measure |
| 04:42.48 | goozbach | heh |
| 04:42.52 | Maquis|home | xsl-fo??? |
| 04:42.55 | Maquis|home | what's that? |
| 04:43.16 | goozbach | xifias? |
| 04:43.29 | Maquis|home | ??? |
| 04:43.48 | goozbach | Guru code word |
| 04:44.25 | Maquis|home | ?? |
| 04:44.56 | goozbach | xifias is a project we'er doing at GL |
| 04:45.10 | goozbach | something with XML and stuff |
| 04:45.21 | Maquis|home | oh... this is a quote that would be great to include in an essay test (to see if the prof's paying attention): One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs. |
| 04:45.30 | Maquis|home | cool! |
| 04:45.39 | Maquis|home | so, is there anything you guys don't do over there? |
| 04:45.44 | goozbach | XSL is for manipulatning XML |
| 04:45.54 | goozbach | Maquis|home: windows stuff |
| 04:46.01 | Maquis|home | you write manuals, teach, do other odd projects.... |
| 04:46.17 | sjansen | goozbach: yeah, xiphias |
| 04:46.47 | Maquis|home | so, what does this xiphias do? |
| 04:46.48 | sjansen | XSLT if for manipulating (transforming) XML |
| 04:46.50 | goozbach | ph |
| 04:47.01 | goozbach | that's what I was missing |
| 04:47.09 | sjansen | XSL-FO is for laying out documents, kinda like LaTeX |
| 04:47.10 | Maquis|home | transforming xml into.... |
| 04:47.13 | Maquis|home | or from... |
| 04:47.17 | Maquis|home | oh... |
| 04:47.25 | Maquis|home | ok... i understand that explanation |
| 04:47.35 | sjansen | Maquis|home: yes, into and from |
| 04:47.39 | sjansen | :-P |
| 04:47.39 | goozbach | xiphias is our new baby, all the instruction written in XML |
| 04:47.45 | Maquis|home | so, is that what xiphias is going to do? lay out documents? |
| 04:47.52 | goozbach | no more of this framemaker stuff |
| 04:48.16 | sjansen | Maquis|home: we gotta do all kinds of wacky stuff to be Gurus |
| 04:48.20 | Maquis|home | why not just use LaTeX? |
| 04:48.30 | Maquis|home | sjansen: i noticed... |
| 04:48.36 | Maquis|home | wacky would be the key word there |
| 04:49.04 | goozbach | Maquis|home: it's more than just the books |
| 04:49.14 | goozbach | it's a full featured monster |
| 04:49.30 | Maquis|home | full-featured monster? |
| 04:49.33 | Maquis|home | meaning? |
| 04:49.34 | sjansen | I mean, who wants a guru that only knows how to frob foos? |
| 04:49.49 | Maquis|home | sjansen: good question... :) |
| 04:50.10 | goozbach | online classes, custom courses, etc. |
| 04:50.18 | Maquis|home | cool! |
| 04:50.20 | sjansen | A Guru has to not only frob but grok. |
| 04:50.58 | goozbach | frob and grok |
| 04:50.59 | goozbach | frob and grok |
| 04:51.02 | sjansen | goozbach: She might actually have asked a good question. Having worked with xsl-fo for a bit, I'm looking forward to the LaTeX meeting. |
| 04:51.02 | goozbach | frob and grok |
| 04:51.09 | sjansen | grok and frob |
| 04:51.14 | sjansen | grok and frob |
| 04:51.27 | Maquis|home | sjansen: LaTeX can go to html, i know... |
| 04:51.32 | Maquis|home | that's about all i know about it... |
| 04:51.41 | Maquis|home | (oh.. and it makes sweet prescription forms) |
| 04:51.42 | goozbach | Maquis|home: till you get a job with us. |
| 04:51.45 | sjansen | For HTML we'd probably want to go with XSLT. |
| 04:51.59 | Maquis|home | :) |
| 04:53.16 | jsmith-writing | lurkin' and learnin' |
| 04:53.20 | goozbach | Maquis|home: how do you think I learned all I know? |
| 04:53.23 | sjansen | XSLT can be used to turn an XML document into another XML document, HTML, or even text. |
| 04:53.51 | jsmith-writing | Don't forget LaTeX, PDF, RTF, etc... |
| 04:54.02 | sjansen | In theory, it can also produce binary files; and I've heard of at least one person using it to parse and transform text files. |
| 04:54.05 | Maquis|home | goo: i'm just grateful that you guys put up with it (and that your boss puts up with it) |
| 04:54.30 | goozbach | I haven't been in the office since like june |
| 04:54.34 | Maquis|home | sjansen: i still don't fully see why it's superior to LaTeX |
| 04:54.41 | goozbach | our bosses are awesome |
| 04:54.47 | sjansen | XSLT or XSL-FO? |
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| 04:55.05 | Maquis|home | i'll admit that i've done nothing but prescription forms in latex, but from what i can see, it can do just about anything... |
| 04:55.11 | Maquis|home | sjansen: both |
| 04:55.15 | goozbach | latex is cool |
| 04:55.15 | sjansen | I'm not sure the XSL-FO is superior. |
| 04:55.27 | sjansen | XSLT is intended for different use. |
| 04:55.43 | Maquis|home | hmmmm |
| 04:55.48 | jsmith-writing | Maquis|home: LaTeX is good for saying "This is bold" and "This is italics" but XSLT is more like "This is a Heading 2", and then applies the stylesheet to know how to format it. |
| 04:56.10 | Maquis|home | so, it's specialized for html? |
| 04:56.14 | sjansen | XSLT grew out of XSL. When it was realized how useful it could be as a general purpose XML transformation language, it was moved into it's own standard. |
| 04:56.23 | jsmith-writing | Maquis|home: With XSLT, you can take the same XML document and make an HTML version and a PDF version with different stylesheets. |
| 04:56.42 | jsmith-writing | Or a LaTeX version, for that matter... |
| 04:56.50 | Maquis|home | hmmmm... |
| 04:57.09 | sjansen | The only nice thing about XSL-FO is that it's XML so it's easy to programmatically transform. |
| 04:57.26 | sjansen | Otherwise, I suspect LaTeX is more powerful for layout. |
| 04:58.10 | sjansen | I'm starting to wonder if we might be smarting doing XML XSLT -> LaTeX -> PDF instead of XML XSLT -> XSL-FO -> PDF |
| 04:58.24 | Maquis|home | sjan what do you mean by "programmmatically transform"? |
| 04:59.03 | sjansen | just that, making changes to the file programmatically |
| 04:59.11 | Maquis|home | and why in the world can't mac OSX have an option for sloppy focus? |
| 04:59.16 | Maquis|home | sjansen: that's what i did this summer! |
| 04:59.18 | Maquis|home | with latex |
| 04:59.27 | Maquis|home | it's easy |
| 04:59.48 | Maquis|home | the hardest part was learning the basics of latex |
| 05:00.24 | sjansen | The problem, I'm not aware of robust, pluggable parsers and tranforms for latex. |
| 05:00.57 | Maquis|home | see, what i did was, i had a latex form, with ***paramName*** wherever i needed to have input go |
| 05:01.15 | sjansen | All of our book use a landscape layout. What happens if a customer insists on portrait? We don't want to manually layout everything again. |
| 05:01.21 | Maquis|home | and then, the program ran through and input the parameters for that... |
| 05:02.03 | Maquis|home | sjansen: i think you only have to change one thing in the file for that... you'd have to ask someone who knows it better, but i'm pretty sure it would be a single change in one spot |
| 05:02.41 | Maquis|home | in fact, i think you can have it be in a package that you include, and you could just change which package is in the \usepackage line for that... |
| 05:02.51 | sjansen | I doubt it's that easy, but that's why I'm looking forward to the meeting. |
| 05:02.58 | Maquis|home | but i'm talking about things i know virtually nothing about... |
| 05:03.02 | jsmith-writing | sjansen: Have you checked out DocBook? |
| 05:03.30 | sjansen | Yeah. Ick. |
| 05:03.30 | jsmith-writing | :-) |
| 05:03.30 | sjansen | Not semantic enough for me. |
| 05:03.33 | jsmith-writing | OK... |
| 05:03.49 | jsmith-writing | Most people think it's too semantic... |
| 05:03.49 | sjansen | And you're still stuck building a good rendering solution. |
| 05:04.05 | jsmith-writing | db2pdf and db2html work great for me |
| 05:04.06 | sjansen | Although what we're creating is partly influenced by DocBook. |
| 05:04.18 | jsmith-writing | But yeah, DocBook can be a dog at times |
| 05:05.19 | jsmith-writing | It's too bad a lot of the publishers gave up on DocBook. |
| 05:06.17 | Maquis|home | "Maybe Compuer Science should be in the College of Theology" |
| 05:07.29 | sjansen | heh |
| 05:07.46 | Maquis|home | Why do computer scientists confuse Halloween and Christmas? |
| 05:09.05 | sjansen | Because Oct<somthing> = Dec25. |
| 05:09.27 | Maquis|home | sjansen: yes... oct31 |
| 05:09.40 | Maquis|home | (did you forget when halloween is?) |
| 05:10.02 | sjansen | You can't forget what you never knew. |
| 05:10.23 | Maquis|home | but... but... it's... it's halloween... it's an important day... |
| 05:10.31 | Maquis|home | you can't forget it! |
| 05:10.45 | sjansen | Dec. 25, Apr 6, May 10, Oct 8 |
| 05:10.58 | sjansen | Although hopefully I'll eventually forget that last one. |
| 05:11.01 | Maquis|home | huh? |
| 05:11.53 | sjansen | Let historians chew on that one years from now when they're reading IRC logs to reconstruct my life. |
| 05:12.19 | Maquis|home | ??????? |
| 05:13.47 | sjansen | It's someone's birthday. Someone I haven't heard from for months and kinda hope never to again. |
| 05:14.18 | Maquis|home | oh... |
| 05:18.35 | Maquis|home | sjansen: why tonight? |
| 05:19.27 | Maquis|home | google has lots of great resources... but it looks like there's going to be plenty of info for newbies at uug.... |
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| 05:19.42 | sjansen | 'Cause I'm bored and impatient. |
| 05:20.04 | sjansen | And if I learn it now, I can spend the night harassing Richard. |
| 05:20.22 | Maquis|home | cool stuff :) |
| 05:20.45 | Maquis|home | i grabbed a bunch of info, and have been trying to teach myself, but i haven't gotten all that far since last summer |
| 05:21.12 | Maquis|home | i'm planning on removing ooffice at some point in the near future though... |
| 05:21.16 | Maquis|home | force myself to use latex |
| 05:21.54 | sjansen | auto-generation of indexes? how hard is that? |
| 05:22.11 | sjansen | xsl-fo can do tables of contents, but not indexes |
| 05:22.29 | Maquis|home | i dunno... ask amcnabb :) |
| 05:22.47 | Maquis|home | he knows this stuff pretty well (and just about anything else you might have questions about) |
| 05:26.27 | sjansen | *sigh* And now we do the dance of the slow modem. |
| 05:28.02 | sjansen | Woulda been nice if someone had optomized this PDF for online viewing. |
| 05:28.21 | sjansen | Anyone else ever read the PDF standard? Very cool format. |
| 05:29.13 | sjansen | Although in all honesty, I only read about the first 100 pages. |
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| 07:56.37 | xbmodder | eh |
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| 08:50.50 | scott_ | am I the only one that thinks scores should somehow be multiplied (or divided) by how much time you've spent playing the game? |
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| 09:08.43 | xbmodder | ? |
| 09:08.51 | xbmodder | anyone here? |
| 09:25.06 | tene | rawr |
| 09:25.44 | xbmodder | hey |
| 09:25.48 | xbmodder | sup |
| 09:25.48 | tene | heya |
| 09:26.13 | tene | just trying to code while my brain is falling apart in entertaining (for anyone watching) ways. |
| 09:26.16 | tene | you? |
| 09:29.19 | xbmodder | heh |
| 09:31.04 | tene | still got a drive for me? |
| 09:36.32 | xbmodder | ye |
| 09:36.33 | xbmodder | yeah |
| 09:36.45 | xbmodder | i was checking something... |
| 09:36.48 | xbmodder | sorry about that |
| 09:37.43 | tene | no problem |
| 09:39.57 | xbmodder | so... |
| 09:40.10 | xbmodder | i wanna play u on halo2 so bad... |
| 09:40.29 | tene | you got an email address I can set up details with you at? |
| 09:42.48 | tene | crap, what am I doing wrong here? |
| 09:43.07 | tene | oh |
| 09:43.17 | tene | el typo, as they say in spain |
| 09:46.45 | xbmodder | ? |
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| 09:47.04 | tene | talking to myself, xbmodder. |
| 09:47.19 | tene | having troubles with a project |
| 09:47.23 | tene | the problem was a typo |
| 09:47.31 | tene | so what's your email address, xbmodder? |
| 09:48.15 | xbmodder | i told u |
| 09:48.23 | tene | you did? |
| 09:48.47 | tene | I need sleep |
| 09:48.49 | xbmodder | yes'ems |
| 09:48.54 | tene | my brain is seriously malfunctioning |
| 09:48.57 | tene | a lot |
| 09:49.33 | xbmodder | uhhh xbmo----dder[at]gmail.com |
| 09:49.41 | xbmodder | get rid of those dashes |
| 09:49.44 | tene | nodnod |
| 09:49.45 | tene | sweet |
| 09:49.51 | tene | I'll email you tomorrow |
| 09:49.52 | tene | g'night |
| 09:53.28 | xbmodder | gnight |
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