| 00:04.16 | Maquis | have fun goozbach |
| 00:05.22 | sjansen | it's just been noticed that emcnabb_ is building a shell of pop cans and styrofoam cups filled with sunflower seed shells |
| 00:05.41 | emcnabb_ | it's my fortress |
| 00:05.47 | emcnabb_ | it protects me |
| 00:05.47 | Maquis | emcnabb_: nice :) |
| 00:06.26 | byronc | emcnabb_: does it protect you from people that warn you on im? |
| 00:07.37 | sjansen | ~warn byronc |
| 00:10.07 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 00:10.20 | sjansen | ouch! |
| 00:10.30 | sjansen | I wasn't sleeping! I promise! |
| 00:10.40 | sjansen | ~bomb Maquis |
| 00:10.42 | ibot | ACTION drops a humongous exploding nuke on Maquis |
| 00:10.42 | Maquis | haha |
| 00:10.56 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 00:11.09 | sjansen | ~lart Maquis |
| 00:11.13 | sjansen | |lart Maquis |
| 00:11.14 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 00:11.15 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 00:11.19 | sjansen | |lart Maquis |
| 00:11.20 | sjansen | ~lart Maquis |
| 00:11.21 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 00:11.21 | sjansen | |lart Maquis |
| 00:11.24 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 00:11.25 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 00:11.32 | sjansen | |lart Maquis |
| 00:11.33 | sjansen | ~lart Maquis |
| 00:11.35 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 00:11.40 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 00:12.22 | sjansen | ~beat Maquis |
| 00:12.24 | ibot | ACTION beats Maquis with a large stick. |
| 00:12.29 | sjansen | ~attack Maquis |
| 00:12.36 | sjansen | ~chase Maquis |
| 00:12.38 | ibot | ACTION chases Maquis |
| 00:12.43 | sjansen | ~destroy Maquis |
| 00:12.45 | ibot | no |
| 00:12.45 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 00:12.46 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 00:12.47 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 00:12.48 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 00:13.14 | sjansen | man, there's some nasty stuff in there |
| 00:13.27 | sjansen | alias vim=emacs, that's gotta violoate international law |
| 00:13.31 | byronc | especially the emacs in a 40x24 terminal |
| 00:13.52 | Maquis | i would still argue that enrolling you in VB101 is the worst punishment around |
| 00:14.08 | sjansen | Nobody said anything about my going. ;-) |
| 00:14.51 | Maquis | |rmlart <action> enrolls $who in Visual Basic 101 |
| 00:14.51 | brigham | lemme take care of that for you |
| 00:15.21 | Maquis | |addlart <action> forces $who to sit through an 8 hour VB class |
| 00:15.21 | brigham | can do! |
| 00:15.37 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 00:15.59 | Maquis | that can't feel good |
| 00:17.34 | Maquis | anybody ever taken CS462 (large-scale distributed system design)? |
| 00:20.44 | sjansen | s/didn't/did/ |
| 00:20.59 | Maquis | how was it? |
| 00:21.07 | sjansen | But I'm not sure I'm in any shape to be helping you, what with the blood streaming down my face. |
| 00:21.15 | Maquis | haha |
| 00:21.38 | sjansen | Well now.... who's gonna be teaching it? |
| 00:21.44 | emcnabb_ | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/19/sainsburys_v_accenture/ |
| 00:21.55 | emcnabb_ | Accenture is one of MS's puppets |
| 00:22.14 | Maquis | sjansen: not sure... currently being taught by phillip windley |
| 00:25.47 | sjansen | meaning he probably won't again next week |
| 00:25.47 | sjansen | s/week/semester/ |
| 00:25.47 | Maquis | i'd assume os |
| 00:25.47 | sjansen | Maquis: As long as you're trying to understand me, you need to know that there's only three rough time periods. |
| 00:25.47 | sjansen | Past, Present, and Future |
| 00:25.47 | Maquis | sjansen: that works... :) |
| 00:25.47 | sjansen | Everything else is a function of emotional distance. So next week means in the not too distant future. |
| 00:25.47 | Maquis | haha |
| 00:25.47 | Maquis | so, when you took 462, how was it? |
| 00:25.47 | sjansen | I was mis-named. Unless it's changed (and I'm sure it hasn't with Windley around) it should actually be called a painful introduction to J2EE development. |
| 00:25.47 | Maquis | ah... |
| 00:25.47 | Maquis | ok... |
| 00:25.47 | sjansen | But that doesn't mean I don't recommend it. |
| 00:25.49 | Maquis | i'm having trouble understanding what it's actually supposed to cver |
| 00:26.06 | sjansen | Yeah. You'd have to talk to the current and future professor to find out. |
| 00:26.14 | Maquis | hmmm... |
| 00:26.25 | sjansen | Basically, it's something related to Web development these days. |
| 00:26.47 | sjansen | Had some PHP in there awhile ago. Don't think it does anymore. |
| 00:26.55 | Maquis | hmmm.. |
| 00:27.04 | sjansen | Creating Web apps. Using Web services. Etc. |
| 00:27.22 | Maquis | hmmm... not sure if i want to work on that stuff... |
| 00:27.38 | sjansen | It's partly to make graduating students that never had a real job a little less useless. |
| 00:27.43 | Maquis | i do a bit of web app-ish stuff on my own, but i'm not sure i'd enjoy a class on it... |
| 00:27.49 | Maquis | haha... |
| 00:28.22 | Maquis | actually, it surprises me that a lot of people manage to graduate without ever taking an internship or anything in the field |
| 00:28.22 | sjansen | I personally didn't enjoy Windley much. A little too important. At times the class seemed like a burden distracting him from more important things. |
| 00:28.41 | sjansen | s/important/self-important/ |
| 00:28.52 | Maquis | i figured that... |
| 00:29.39 | sjansen | It wasn't a good mix. I'm an opinionated person with years in the trenches doing Web dev. He's a sucessful CEO of a Web company returned to share his greatness; thinks he knows more about the technology than he does. The gritty details, anyway. |
| 00:30.01 | Maquis | that doesn't sound fun |
| 00:30.06 | sjansen | yeah |
| 00:30.07 | Maquis | i dislike teachers who think that they're "all that" |
| 00:30.29 | sjansen | He gave a hard working, intelligent co-worker a B for not talking in class enough. |
| 00:30.49 | sjansen | Basically went through the class roll and if he didn't recognize the person, they couldn't get better than a B. |
| 00:32.03 | sjansen | Don't know if he did that to our class or not. But then I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut. |
| 00:32.34 | Maquis | haha |
| 00:55.51 | *** join/#utah Lafoh (~p6n4p8@cw08.F2.srv.t-online.de) |
| 00:57.11 | hans | I dislike windley, and I've never even had a class or anything more than a colloquium from him. i don't see how sjansen did it |
| 00:57.34 | hans | I would have dropped the class once I figured "distributed systems" meant "web programming". I still don't get that misnomer |
| 00:59.19 | hans | Maquis: what are your interests? |
| 01:04.48 | Maquis | hans, i'm not yet certain for sure |
| 01:04.58 | Maquis | i prefer c over c++ and java... |
| 01:05.08 | Maquis | and i don't actually mind x86 assembly _that_ much |
| 01:05.11 | Nafai | Maquis: Smart girl. :) |
| 01:05.20 | Maquis | i do like php though, and i'm in the process of learning perl |
| 01:05.26 | sjansen | fun stuff |
| 01:05.31 | hans | well, 400-level classes are less about language and more about application |
| 01:05.35 | sjansen | Just wouldn't want to write a large system in it. |
| 01:05.44 | Maquis | i'm kind of interested in learning about system administration and networking and such |
| 01:05.49 | Nafai | Maquis: you should learn Python instead |
| 01:06.14 | hans | you'll learn more about sysadmin here than any class. the networking class is great though |
| 01:06.18 | Maquis | pretty much, i enjoy the programming and such, but don't really like the classes that focus more on theory |
| 01:06.30 | Maquis | yeah, i've learned a ton about sysadmin here... |
| 01:06.40 | hans | is that because you like concrete programming or because you think theory isn't applicable? |
| 01:06.42 | Maquis | that's part of why i get so easily distracted while doing hw with IRC off to the side |
| 01:07.04 | Maquis | hans, i think that mostly its because i like the programming, but i often also don't see how the theory is applicable |
| 01:07.09 | hans | if the former, you might not like things like AI and machine learning. they have a lot of 'theory' but it is actually useful instead of abstract |
| 01:07.17 | Maquis | for example, when we talk about encryption theory in class, i find it really interesting |
| 01:07.35 | Maquis | and i think that's more because i actually have a context of how _i_ would use it |
| 01:07.45 | Maquis | (encryption is really interesting to me) |
| 01:07.53 | hans | and then all the stuff you learned in 252 and 23[56] will click into place. if you want to realize you didn't waste your time in those classes, take one of the heavy theory 400-levels, eg ai, machine learning, etc. |
| 01:08.03 | sjansen | When you hear hooves: think horses not zebras. |
| 01:08.09 | Maquis | one thing that's kind of interesting is that i'm not really planning on working in industry for a _long_ time... |
| 01:08.19 | hans | 465 was good too, even from seamons (who i despised in 345) |
| 01:08.25 | Maquis | haha |
| 01:08.30 | Maquis | yeah, i want to take AI... |
| 01:08.46 | Maquis | the bzflag project looks like a ton of fun |
| 01:09.31 | Maquis | see, i tend to look at my classes more in a "this is fun" or "this is not fun" way... rather than a "this will help me professionally" wya... |
| 01:09.56 | Maquis | because once i have kids, i'm not planning on working professionally... at that point, my CS work will be a hobby... |
| 01:10.02 | hans | "this will help me professionally" approach will lead to a boring professional life. |
| 01:10.21 | Maquis | i want to, at that point, work a lot with open source software, in whatever free time i can get.. |
| 01:10.28 | hans | might as well get an MBA or go into Information Systems. ;-) |
| 01:10.44 | Maquis | but my primary focus at that point is going to be my family... |
| 01:11.08 | hans | Maquis: go for the theory. it's actually fun in 400-levels, if you can grok it, and it will put you in a better position to contribute in meaningful (non-codemonkey) ways to opensource projects |
| 01:11.17 | Maquis | really? |
| 01:11.20 | Maquis | so, like 470? |
| 01:11.22 | *** join/#utah wps (~wade@66.239.25.56.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 01:11.30 | Maquis | i definitely find AI interesting |
| 01:11.59 | Maquis | i was looking a bit into machine learning as well... a close friend of mine was a grad student in machine learning my freshman year... |
| 01:12.39 | Maquis | i dunno though... |
| 01:12.43 | Maquis | i guess i have some time to decide... |
| 01:12.56 | Maquis | i'm just starting to look into planning out my schedule for the next little while... |
| 01:13.23 | Maquis | with any luck, i'll be able to convince my parents to let me get a job during the school year... |
| 01:13.46 | hans | i just took the greedy approach to scheduling classes. whichever classes looked best that semester. with a little planning ahead for the few i definitely wanted tot ake. |
| 01:14.04 | Maquis | they're adamently against it at the moment, but i've made some pretty good arguments for why it would be a good thing, and i'm hoping that i'll be able to convince them.... |
| 01:14.22 | Maquis | hans, that's probably good... although the main thing i was paying attention to was what is still required |
| 01:14.27 | Maquis | (ie, GEs and such) |
| 01:14.38 | Maquis | but i like looking ahead a bit at the 400-levels too... |
| 01:17.12 | sjansen | What GE's do you have left? |
| 01:17.59 | Maquis | arts and letters, civilization (both halves), biology, geology or chemistry, new testament, D&C, and 2 of the PE classes |
| 01:18.20 | sjansen | Do an honors class for civ. They've got some fun ones. |
| 01:18.26 | Maquis | and i still have to take stat321, which isn't a GE, but is non-cs |
| 01:18.39 | sjansen | Geology was a great class. Well run dept. |
| 01:18.46 | Maquis | sjansen: yeah... i'm also thinking about doing one of their classes for arts&letters... |
| 01:18.57 | hans | I liked geology |
| 01:19.26 | hans | if you can get into history of creativity, that's great for the civ req |
| 01:19.51 | sjansen | i loved the ancient documents in the library, actually got to handle some really old stuff |
| 01:19.53 | Maquis | how is history of creativity? |
| 01:20.13 | hans | fun. |
| 01:20.17 | emcnabb_ | please do not talk to sjansen; we're trying to work on a group project and he's not focusing |
| 01:20.24 | sjansen | am too! |
| 01:20.33 | hans | |lart emcjansen |
| 01:20.35 | emcnabb_ | do it for me... |
| 01:21.37 | Maquis | emcnabb_: sorry... but you're ignoring the question, and he's replying to it... |
| 01:22.17 | Maquis | i noticed that the only class that deals with guis is completely java-based |
| 01:22.26 | Maquis | at least unless i'm missing something... |
| 01:22.32 | hans | you're right |
| 01:22.42 | sjansen | from what I hear the gui class isn't very useful/interesting |
| 01:22.47 | emcnabb_ | dang you |
| 01:22.55 | Maquis | i'd like to learn how to work with guis in c... but i'm not completely certain where to start |
| 01:23.09 | sjansen | Maquis: bug me about that later |
| 01:23.12 | Maquis | emcnabb_: i'm going to assume you were talking to sjansen :) |
| 01:23.15 | Maquis | sjansen: ok... |
| 01:23.16 | Maquis | i will |
| 01:24.00 | *** join/#utah torriem (~torriem@c-67-164-203-109.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:24.09 | sjansen | or just ask torriem |
| 01:24.14 | sjansen | he knows a fair bit about gtk |
| 01:24.30 | Maquis | ok |
| 01:24.38 | torriem | the one true and living gui toolkit |
| 01:24.49 | Maquis | sjansen: if i don't bug you about guis, i'm sure i'll bug you about other things :) |
| 01:25.18 | sjansen | torriem: what about gtk#? |
| 01:25.32 | Nafai | I like gtk |
| 01:25.33 | torriem | it's pretty cool, although I haven't used it personally. Very clean |
| 01:25.35 | emcnabb_ | Maquis, no talking to you for a while |
| 01:25.40 | emcnabb_ | :-) |
| 01:25.43 | Maquis | :) |
| 01:25.48 | emcnabb_ | you broke the treaty |
| 01:25.52 | Maquis | 0:-) |
| 01:25.55 | Maquis | what treaty? |
| 01:26.08 | *** join/#utah fungus (Snak@66.239.25.59.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 01:26.51 | torriem | The proof of gtk#'s coolness will be when a large-scale application is written for it. |
| 01:26.53 | torriem | withit |
| 01:27.44 | sjansen | by it |
| 01:28.05 | torriem | well, gtk# is not currently self aware, so I doubt we can get any programs written by it. Maybe using it, though. |
| 01:28.22 | sjansen | next to it |
| 01:28.46 | Maquis | sjansen: you're going to make emcnabb_ mad at you again |
| 01:28.55 | torriem | :) |
| 01:29.21 | Maquis | |lart sjansen |
| 01:32.08 | sjansen | emcnabb_ left the room, I can goof off! |
| 01:32.35 | Maquis | haha |
| 01:32.51 | Maquis | what "treaty" did i break? any idea? |
| 01:33.12 | *** join/#utah wps (~wade@66.239.25.56.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 01:33.32 | *** part/#utah torriem (~torriem@c-67-164-203-109.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:33.37 | sjansen | emcnabb_ asked you not to talk to me; I think he assumed that you would automatically give him whatever he wanted |
| 01:33.57 | Maquis | really... last i checked, treaties are mutually agreed upon... |
| 01:34.05 | Maquis | although i suppose i might actually owe him a favor at some point |
| 01:34.23 | sjansen | Uncle_Jesse: I feel you pain. Just not as deeply as you're going to. |
| 01:34.33 | Uncle_Jesse | lol |
| 01:34.43 | Maquis | but his "don't talk to sjansen" thing wasn't directly to me... it appears to have been directed toward everyone in the channel |
| 01:34.50 | sjansen | true |
| 01:34.58 | sjansen | and everyone else is doing it |
| 01:34.58 | Uncle_Jesse | Only advantage I see to Java servlets is they are more user-friendly |
| 01:35.01 | Maquis | although, if you guys get this stuff done, then he can come to uug on thursday... which would be fun.... |
| 01:35.07 | Maquis | so, get to work |
| 01:35.16 | sjansen | not you too.... |
| 01:35.30 | Maquis | what? |
| 01:35.43 | sjansen | why is everyone abandoning me? |
| 01:35.43 | Maquis | you could come on thursday too |
| 01:35.50 | Uncle_Jesse | sjansen: I'm here for you buddy |
| 01:35.56 | Maquis | it'll be fun |
| 01:36.01 | sjansen | Uncle_Jesse: distract me so I don't have to work |
| 01:36.03 | Uncle_Jesse | I'm about to go soak in the hot tub though |
| 01:36.13 | Maquis | haha |
| 01:36.18 | sjansen | Not an image I needed while searching for distraction. |
| 01:36.20 | Uncle_Jesse | hmmm...Mysql or Postgres? |
| 01:36.33 | Uncle_Jesse | lol |
| 01:36.36 | Maquis | sjansen: don't you want to come down to uug on thursday evening? |
| 01:36.44 | sjansen | probably |
| 01:36.53 | Maquis | it'd be fun!! |
| 01:37.04 | emcnabb_ | DANG YOU ALL! |
| 01:37.07 | sjansen | although I also want to go to SLLUG tomorrow |
| 01:37.12 | emcnabb_ | IGNORE SJANSEN!!!! |
| 01:37.13 | Maquis | emcnabb_: he said you weren't around |
| 01:37.21 | emcnabb_ | I am!!! |
| 01:37.22 | Maquis | sjansen: GET TO WORK! |
| 01:37.23 | *** join/#utah xbmodderlappy (~xbdm@adsl-67-117-147-95.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 01:38.07 | xbmodderlappy | hey |
| 01:38.16 | Maquis | sup? |
| 01:38.18 | sjansen | I'm not allowed to talk to you. |
| 01:38.27 | Maquis | sjansen: get to work |
| 01:38.53 | xbmodderlappy | notin |
| 01:38.58 | xbmodderlappy | sjansen, why not? |
| 01:39.08 | Maquis | xbmodderlappy: he is at work |
| 01:39.08 | xbmodderlappy | Uncle_Jesse, i dont reccomend! |
| 01:39.08 | Uncle_Jesse | I love wireless |
| 01:39.13 | xbmodderlappy | lol |
| 01:39.21 | Maquis | he and emcnabb_ are working on a project |
| 01:39.29 | Uncle_Jesse | as long as it isn't "in" the hot tub I should be fine |
| 01:39.30 | Maquis | and sjansen is getting distracted talking to people here |
| 01:40.03 | Uncle_Jesse | sjansen: just imagine Harleypig in a hottub - that will get you back to work |
| 01:40.06 | Maquis | Uncle_Jesse: umm... just be careful |
| 01:40.23 | Maquis | xbmodderlappy: you've got a sick mind |
| 01:40.24 | Uncle_Jesse | Maquis: just thinking of how I could pull it off |
| 01:40.53 | xbmodderlappy | Uncle_Jesse, thats really hard |
| 01:41.39 | xbmodderlappy | Maquis, you are the one to think i have a sick mind that you have a sick mind to understand my sick ideas! |
| 01:41.40 | Maquis | Uncle_Jesse: i've seen that water tends to splash |
| 01:41.48 | xbmodderlappy | lol |
| 01:41.57 | Uncle_Jesse | I could wrap it in a plastic bag |
| 01:41.59 | Maquis | xbmodderlappy: no... just suggesting such a thing is sick |
| 01:42.14 | Maquis | Uncle_Jesse: yes, but it would be harder to use |
| 01:42.16 | Uncle_Jesse | and place it on a floaty of some sort so I can type on top of the water |
| 01:42.47 | Uncle_Jesse | Maquis: the whole point isn't to make it easy - it's to make it happen |
| 01:43.47 | Maquis | ok... |
| 01:43.53 | Maquis | whatever you say |
| 01:44.13 | Uncle_Jesse | well, time to go soak - I think I'm going to wimp out on the laptop thing this time though |
| 01:44.26 | Maquis | have fun |
| 01:59.59 | xbmodderlappy | :( |
| 02:03.00 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@12-221-111-164.client.insightBB.com) |
| 02:08.45 | xbmodderlappy | we need to invent a water proof laptop cover |
| 02:09.09 | rufius | xbmodderlappy: hard to do... have to mount a snorkle to it else you'll suffocate the lappy |
| 02:09.28 | xbmodderlappy | lol |
| 02:09.34 | xbmodderlappy | not neccerially |
| 02:09.46 | rufius | you suggesting we make gills for the lappy? |
| 02:09.52 | xbmodderlappy | you can use a cooler |
| 02:09.54 | xbmodderlappy | lol |
| 02:09.56 | xbmodderlappy | LOOOL! |
| 02:09.58 | rufius | lol |
| 02:10.35 | xbmodderlappy | how about electrolysis! |
| 02:10.36 | xbmodderlappy | ? |
| 02:10.57 | rufius | lol |
| 02:11.02 | xbmodderlappy | to give it new air |
| 02:11.25 | xbmodderlappy | and the air pressure inside the case will remain the same |
| 02:12.17 | brailsmt | what are some good security monitoring tools? |
| 02:13.13 | brailsmt | I have used bastille to lock things down, and I am running rkhunter every so often to check for tell-tale signs of break in, anyone other tools that are good or better than those? |
| 02:23.27 | hans | ~lart Uncle_Jesse |
| 02:24.27 | *** join/#utah torriem (~torriem@c-67-164-203-109.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:27.28 | hans | what is = appended to a file in ls output? |
| 02:28.04 | hans | ah, a socket |