| 00:04.39 | Bradipo | You're in the wrong country. |
| 00:04.55 | leinaD | I was kidding. |
| 00:05.05 | Bradipo | I figured. |
| 00:05.36 | Bradipo | But that is sadly the direction things seem to be going. |
| 00:05.54 | Bradipo | You don't cook a frog by tossing him instantly in the water. :-) |
| 00:06.31 | leinaD | *nods* The (you can be a) Patriot (by letting us do anything we want to you) Act has a built-in expiration date, doesn't it? |
| 00:06.32 | jk1joel | sure you do. you just have to close the lid after tossing |
| 00:07.17 | Bradipo | I hope it does. |
| 00:07.36 | Bradipo | jk1joel: I always wondered how the government got away with that. :-) |
| 00:07.41 | jk1joel | mmm. boiled frog. mmm. |
| 00:07.51 | bonez39 | strange times....beget strange laws |
| 00:07.51 | Bradipo | I've had frog legs before, tasted just like chicken. |
| 00:08.08 | jk1joel | Bradipo: did I ever tell you about showering in boiled frog water when I was in argentina? |
| 00:08.20 | leinaD | I kind of wonder how the government gets away with a lot of things. |
| 00:08.24 | Bradipo | I don't believe you did. |
| 00:08.41 | leinaD | is that frog water, which was then boiled, or water in which frogs had been boiled? |
| 00:08.44 | Bradipo | Corruption. Its like a big good old boys club at the top. |
| 00:08.45 | jk1joel | that's a good one. I told a bunch of the sco boys over lunch once |
| 00:09.06 | Bradipo | Think of the three monkeys up there covering their ears, eyes and mouth. |
| 00:09.26 | jk1joel | leinaD: the latter. the boiled frogs were still in the water as I showered |
| 00:09.35 | Bradipo | The only other alternative is that they really don't know whats going on up there. |
| 00:09.50 | leinaD | Bradipo: The question, as far as I'm concerned, is not whether our government is corrupt, but whether there's another country I could move to with a less corrupt government. |
| 00:10.08 | Bradipo | That's a tough one to answer. |
| 00:10.37 | jk1joel | leinaD: good luck! voting with your feet rarely changes anything with regards to gov't |
| 00:10.59 | jk1joel | unless your feet are attached to the controls of thermonuclear warheads |
| 00:11.31 | leinaD | jk1joel: I don't care. If I'm a citizen of another country, the US government won't affect me any more. That *is* one thing I love about the US - freedom to leave if I want to. |
| 00:12.24 | bonez39 | leinaD: yeah, can't really find the same freedoms elsewhere |
| 00:12.30 | jk1joel | true. Personally, I think the best option right now is to stay and try to make a difference |
| 00:12.59 | jk1joel | write politicians like crazy, donate to the EFF (or similar organization) |
| 00:13.03 | Bradipo | leinaD: Except that outside the US, everyone believes the US is trying to conquer the world. :-0 |
| 00:13.15 | Bradipo | So, our policies would affect you. |
| 00:13.21 | jk1joel | yeah. you move, and you'll just become part of the US empire again eventually |
| 00:13.40 | Bradipo | I donated to EFF once. |
| 00:13.41 | leinaD | Maybe I'll just move to Canada. |
| 00:13.55 | Bradipo | For DJB's case against the US. |
| 00:14.25 | jk1joel | Canada has its problems too... high taxes, slower economy, french (need I say more?) |
| 00:14.46 | Bradipo | http://cr.yp.to/export/donors.html |
| 00:14.56 | Bradipo | In fact, by the looks of it, I was one of the first. :-) |
| 00:15.06 | leinaD | Actually, Switzerland looks quite nice. |
| 00:15.18 | jk1joel | yeah. every citizen gets a gun. that's cool |
| 00:15.33 | Bradipo | And here we can own AK47s. |
| 00:16.20 | leinaD | I hear that becoming a Swiss citizen is very, very hard. |
| 00:16.20 | Bradipo | I would rather be Austrian. |
| 00:16.26 | leinaD | Why Austrian? |
| 00:16.33 | bonez39 | you can own one here...can't you now? |
| 00:16.51 | Bradipo | They have superior economic views. |
| 00:16.57 | Bradipo | Ever hear of Austrian economics? |
| 00:17.00 | bonez39 | Bradipo: if austrian,, you might have a good shot at becoming US President |
| 00:17.12 | Bradipo | bonez39: Why is that? |
| 00:17.18 | scott__ | superior economics views, but an inferior economy |
| 00:17.41 | Bradipo | But why is it inferior? |
| 00:17.41 | jk1joel | because they might change the constitution to accomodate you (a.k.a. Arnie in 4 years) |
| 00:17.48 | Bradipo | Haha. |
| 00:18.01 | bonez39 | I was thinking of Arnold......Schwarzenegger |
| 00:18.06 | Bradipo | Right, I got it now. |
| 00:18.34 | scott__ | Bradipo, compare GDP / capita --Swiss wins |
| 00:18.42 | leinaD | if Arnie runs for president, I am definitely going to ______ myself. Fill in the blank with the word that sounds like "expatriate" only means to move and abandon your citizenship instead of just moving. |
| 00:18.46 | Bradipo | GDP is a flimsy number. |
| 00:18.49 | Bradipo | Doesn't really mean much. |
| 00:18.56 | Bradipo | They fudge it every year anyway. |
| 00:19.03 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@c-67-161-219-228.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:19.10 | scott__ | alright, pick an indicator |
| 00:19.17 | Bradipo | That's the problem. |
| 00:19.22 | Bradipo | People always want indicators. |
| 00:19.34 | Bradipo | The stock market is probably one of the best I would guess. |
| 00:19.36 | leinaD | What else are you going to use though? |
| 00:19.42 | Bradipo | Since people are voting with their money there. |
| 00:20.04 | leinaD | I mean, if you're going to ignore all indicators, what's left? How much you like the scenery and/or local fauna? |
| 00:20.06 | scott__ | sorry, I don't really have time right now to fly to Austria and Switzerland and go through everyone's checkbook and bank account to make an analysis |
| 00:20.08 | Bradipo | But even those indicators can fail when subject to manipulation. |
| 00:20.58 | Bradipo | Most indicators like GDP are born of the governments attempts to tamper with the ``free'' market. |
| 00:21.05 | Bradipo | Our market in many respects isn't truly free. |
| 00:21.09 | leinaD | right |
| 00:21.17 | Bradipo | If it were, we wouldn't have such large boom/bust business cycles. |
| 00:21.22 | leinaD | but... well, I'm not saying you're wrong |
| 00:21.23 | Bradipo | Things would actually be more stable than they are. |
| 00:21.25 | leinaD | but who cares? |
| 00:21.38 | Bradipo | That's the point right there---who cares... |
| 00:21.39 | leinaD | If you're going to compare two countries you've got to compare them somehow |
| 00:21.55 | Bradipo | Give me a free country with a free market. |
| 00:22.16 | leinaD | and things like crime rates or gdp or whatever are the best tools we have, of which I am aware |
| 00:22.21 | Bradipo | Someone else's opinion of GDP, CPI, and any other indicator can go south for all I care. |
| 00:23.02 | leinaD | Well, if you were going to pick a country to live in, and you weren't already a US citizen, how would you pick one? |
| 00:23.43 | Bradipo | At the time of the writing of the Constitution, the United States would be the number one pick. |
| 00:23.45 | leinaD | (iirc, the Swiss economy is fairly free.) |
| 00:23.50 | Bradipo | Things have changed greatly since then. |
| 00:24.16 | leinaD | Okay, but what about right now? |
| 00:24.16 | Bradipo | But how I would pick it would be based on a few things. |
| 00:24.24 | Bradipo | Do they have Central Banks that pratice in fractional reserve banking? |
| 00:24.35 | leinaD | What's that? |
| 00:24.50 | Bradipo | Do they have a fiat dollar (or other fiat denomination)? |
| 00:24.56 | Bradipo | Do they have a free market |
| 00:25.12 | Bradipo | And do they respect the basic human liberties? |
| 00:25.14 | leinaD | what's a fiat dollar? |
| 00:25.31 | Bradipo | A fiat dollar is one that is backed only by the good faith of the Federal Reserve. |
| 00:25.40 | Bradipo | Our dollar is no longer backed by gold. |
| 00:25.55 | leinaD | k |
| 00:26.01 | Bradipo | That is why it is so easy for inflation to get out of hand. |
| 00:26.03 | leinaD | so fiat dollar = bad? |
| 00:26.06 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 00:26.14 | leinaD | which countries don't have a fiat dollar? |
| 00:26.36 | Bradipo | Well, the US didn't until just recently. |
| 00:26.36 | leinaD | and what's fractional reserve banking? |
| 00:27.03 | Bradipo | The US had a gold backed dollar for years until it started breaking away from what the Founding Fathers had to say about it. |
| 00:27.03 | jk1joel | not necessarily.. have you read the gilligans island article about the fiat dollar? |
| 00:27.08 | Bradipo | Exactly. |
| 00:27.11 | Bradipo | I was going to bring that up. |
| 00:27.20 | jk1joel | but it actually said that a fiat dollar can be a good thing |
| 00:27.22 | Bradipo | There was an article on /. about it recently. |
| 00:27.44 | Bradipo | It said that it got better after it was detached from the main economy. |
| 00:28.01 | Bradipo | Once they were on the island, those dollars became scarce. |
| 00:28.01 | jk1joel | it only got better because it was in short supply |
| 00:28.07 | Bradipo | There was no one left to print them. |
| 00:28.09 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 00:28.20 | jk1joel | if the gov't limits what they print, then there is nothing wrong with a fiat dollar |
| 00:28.33 | Bradipo | But the gov't doesn't. |
| 00:28.38 | jk1joel | sure they do. |
| 00:28.39 | Bradipo | And in fact, the government doesn't do it now. |
| 00:28.43 | Bradipo | That has been handed over to the Fed. |
| 00:29.07 | Bradipo | And the Fed has never been officially amended. |
| 00:29.07 | jk1joel | perfect. look at the federal reserve. it controls the rate of printing to keep inflation in check |
| 00:29.21 | Bradipo | But at what rate does it control it? |
| 00:29.21 | jk1joel | it's in the best interest of the fed to do so |
| 00:29.28 | Bradipo | And who gets the newly printed money? |
| 00:29.42 | jk1joel | it gets loaned to whoever wants it at the overnight rate |
| 00:29.53 | Bradipo | So the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. |
| 00:29.56 | jk1joel | no |
| 00:29.58 | Bradipo | That's what printing of dollars does. |
| 00:30.03 | jk1joel | bogus |
| 00:30.12 | jk1joel | that has nothing to do with it |
| 00:30.33 | Bradipo | That article about Thurston Howell III also mentioned this: |
| 00:30.38 | Bradipo | http://www.mises.org/money.asp |
| 00:30.40 | jk1joel | if there is inflation, then they raise the overnight rate so that fewer people will borrow the newly printed money |
| 00:30.41 | Bradipo | Its an excellent read. |
| 00:30.56 | jk1joel | if the economy is sluggish, they lower the rate |
| 00:31.04 | jk1joel | it's actually a really good system. |
| 00:31.09 | Bradipo | And what happens when they reach the bottom of lowering rates? |
| 00:31.19 | Bradipo | As they have now... |
| 00:31.35 | jk1joel | great! that means inflation is low, and people can borrow money cheaply |
| 00:31.40 | jk1joel | that's a good thing |
| 00:31.47 | Bradipo | And go into more debt than they normally would. |
| 00:31.49 | Bradipo | Which is a bad thing. |
| 00:31.56 | jk1joel | not necessarily |
| 00:32.15 | leinaD | not all debt is bad |
| 00:32.21 | jk1joel | not all debt is bad debt. look at companies who borrow money to do research |
| 00:32.23 | Bradipo | No, this is true. |
| 00:32.31 | Bradipo | But taking on more debt than one should is bad. |
| 00:32.52 | Bradipo | And having a lower rate makes it easier to take on more debt. |
| 00:32.54 | jk1joel | true. but to say that the lower rate causes people to take out more than they should is an oversimplification |
| 00:33.00 | Bradipo | Maybe. |
| 00:33.16 | jk1joel | with a lower rate, you can afford to take out more because you can pay the principal down faster (less interest to pay) |
| 00:33.31 | leinaD | if someone is foolish enough to go over their head in debt, the interest rate isn't going to factor into their decision very heavily, I'd wager |
| 00:33.38 | jk1joel | exactly |
| 00:34.09 | Bradipo | Fractional Reserve Banking is where a the Central Bank system allows banks to only keep a certain percentage if liquidity. |
| 00:34.14 | leinaD | not that I'm one to talk, being over my head currently |
| 00:34.24 | Bradipo | For example, say they have $1000 of gold. |
| 00:34.36 | Bradipo | But they actually loan out $2000 worth of gold. |
| 00:34.52 | Bradipo | If everyone suddenly decides they want their gold, the bank is bankrupt immediately. |
| 00:34.58 | Bradipo | Because there is no way it can pay it off. |
| 00:35.03 | leinaD | *nods* |
| 00:35.05 | Bradipo | That's grossly oversimplified. |
| 00:35.21 | Bradipo | So, in todays Central Banking system, they are already bankrupt. |
| 00:35.34 | Bradipo | Of course, nobody can request gold anymore, so they are not at risk of that. |
| 00:35.53 | Bradipo | And the federal reserve has essentially said it would print itself out of bankrupty anyway. |
| 00:36.18 | Bradipo | leinaD: I disagree about the rate not influencing their decision. |
| 00:36.24 | Bradipo | Most people have no clue how money and debt works. |
| 00:36.39 | Bradipo | And when they start to hear things about lower rates, they suddenly believe that maybe they can take out more. |
| 00:36.42 | bonez39 | Bradipo: so, what are you saying essentially about our financial and credit based monetary system? |
| 00:36.54 | leinaD | Well, you're welcome to disagree of course, but look at how many people go to loan sharks that charge 500% or more in interest. |
| 00:36.55 | jk1joel | why would they do that? none of the legal tender today is backed by gold or silver. you can't demand that they give you gold for your currency anymore |
| 00:36.58 | Bradipo | Add to that that most people don't even understand how the economy works. |
| 00:37.08 | Bradipo | leinaD: And why do they go there? |
| 00:37.10 | leinaD | If they were thinking clearly, those places wouldn't be in business. But somehow, they are. |
| 00:37.23 | Bradipo | Because they don't understand that he is going to get 40% interest on what they are taking out. |
| 00:37.39 | bonez39 | Bradipo: I have been doing some reading..I get junk mail and sometimes good mail...some of these places promising to wipe away all my debt....and they talk about how the banks rip off those they loan to in the first place... |
| 00:37.47 | Bradipo | Legal Tender is a farce in my opinion. |
| 00:37.59 | Bradipo | It used to be that the best currency was determined by the market place. |
| 00:38.11 | Bradipo | Not the Legal Tender of some government. |
| 00:38.27 | jk1joel | well 60 years of US economics disagrees with you (about the farce) |
| 00:38.31 | jk1joel | the market still decides |
| 00:38.48 | Bradipo | No, the US government decided... |
| 00:38.54 | bonez39 | the bank notes are legal tender...to conduct business..to buy and sell, but all are based on trust...rght? |
| 00:39.02 | Bradipo | Trust... |
| 00:39.04 | Bradipo | But I don't trust. |
| 00:39.13 | Bradipo | I want something backed by hard currency. |
| 00:39.16 | jk1joel | that's not true. the dollar vs. other currencies are determined by the currency markets |
| 00:39.17 | bonez39 | well, I trust less and less..... |
| 00:39.26 | Bradipo | I want something I can hold in my hand, not just someones good faith trust. |
| 00:39.32 | bonez39 | hard currency being gold, or silver, or precious metal? |
| 00:39.36 | jk1joel | what the fed does certainly affects it, but it doesn't control it |
| 00:39.37 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 00:40.16 | Bradipo | Man, I hate ditching out on a good conversation like this, but I have to run. :-) |
| 00:40.27 | Bradipo | I recommend you all read: http://www.mises.org/money.asp |
| 00:40.36 | Bradipo | It was linked to in that Thurston article on /. |
| 00:40.40 | Bradipo | Very good read. :-) |
| 00:40.51 | bonez39 | Bradipo: do you know anything about these groups who promise to help you wipe out your debt, not by restructuring, but by trickery....of how the banking and lending laws are worded? |
| 00:40.53 | leinaD | All this talk of gold and economies and whatnot is great, but right now I'd give a lot just to have my sinuses cleared. |
| 00:41.00 | Bradipo | bonez39: Not really. |
| 00:41.11 | Bradipo | Do you have a link to them? I wouldn't trust anything that came to me via email... |
| 00:41.24 | Bradipo | leinaD: I have some stuff that will do it. |
| 00:41.30 | Bradipo | Ever hear of Dave's Insanity Sauce? |
| 00:41.40 | Bradipo | http://www.davesgourmet.com/ |
| 00:41.42 | bonez39 | Bradipo: never heard of that |
| 00:41.50 | Bradipo | One drop will clear your sinuses easily. |
| 00:42.30 | *** join/#utah tyce (~tyce@ts64.vps2.iserver.net) |
| 00:42.45 | Bradipo | I have a bottle if any of you ever get the itch to try something extremely hot. |
| 00:42.46 | leinaD | Bradipo: you put it in your nose, or consume it? |
| 00:42.51 | tyce | anyone in here any good with DMA support? |
| 00:42.52 | Bradipo | The hottest sauce is actually called Caldera. |
| 00:42.56 | leinaD | ohhhh |
| 00:42.57 | Bradipo | And its $250 a bottle. |
| 00:43.00 | leinaD | I'm not a fan of hot sauce |
| 00:43.11 | leinaD | it's allergies that are causing the problem |
| 00:43.13 | Bradipo | But you asked for something that would clear your sinuses... |
| 00:43.20 | Bradipo | This would do it, believe me. :-) |
| 00:43.33 | leinaD | maybe I should take my habit-breaking bottle of cayenne pepper extract and consume some of that |
| 00:44.23 | Bradipo | Anyway, we should resume this discussion of money, the Fed and the economy some other time. Its good to see other opinions. |
| 00:44.50 | leinaD | mmkay |
| 00:44.51 | leinaD | toodles |
| 00:44.59 | Bradipo | Most people don't have informed opinions about those topics. Not even scholars on the topic. |
| 00:45.04 | Bradipo | Later. |
| 00:47.21 | tyce | I need some help |
| 00:47.46 | leinaD | With what? |
| 00:47.49 | tyce | I just ran apt-get dselect-upgrade thinking it would remove the pcmcia stuff and it did a whole lot more then that |
| 00:47.50 | Bradipo | Looks like my ride isn't here yet. :-( |
| 00:47.57 | tyce | how do I undo what I just did? |
| 00:48.22 | tyce | ohh sorry, apt-get dselect-upgrade pcmcia_core |
| 00:48.27 | tyce | thats what I ran |
| 00:48.54 | Bradipo | Well, just start installing what you need again. |
| 00:49.09 | Bradipo | If you use dselect, run that and start selecting the packages you want installed. |
| 00:49.30 | Bradipo | Resolve the dependencies and install them. |
| 00:49.37 | Bradipo | Or you could just use: apt-get install packagename |
| 00:49.40 | tyce | ? not following |
| 00:50.05 | tyce | It looks like it installed its own locales for pcmcia or something |
| 00:50.16 | Bradipo | I assume that dselect-upgrade is like apt-get upgrade... |
| 00:50.41 | Bradipo | So, you want to remove pcmcia_core? |
| 00:50.50 | tyce | idumea:/etc# apt-get dselect-upgrade pcmcia_core |
| 00:50.50 | tyce | Reading Package Lists... Done |
| 00:50.50 | tyce | Building Dependency Tree... Done |
| 00:50.50 | tyce | The following NEW packages will be installed: |
| 00:50.50 | tyce | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:50.50 | tyce | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:50.52 | tyce | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:50.54 | tyce | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:50.56 | tyce | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:50.58 | tyce | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:51.00 | tyce | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:51.02 | tyce | The following packages will be upgraded: |
| 00:51.04 | tyce | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:51.06 | tyce | 5 upgraded, 59 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. |
| 00:51.08 | tyce | Need to get 38.6MB of archives. |
| 00:51.10 | Bradipo | That's what an update does. |
| 00:51.10 | tyce | After unpacking 81.8MB of additional disk space will be used. |
| 00:51.12 | tyce | Do you want to continue? [Y/n] |
| 00:51.14 | tyce | yes |
| 00:51.18 | tyce | thats all I wanted to do is remove the pcmcia_core |
| 00:51.28 | Bradipo | Then do: apt-get remove pcmcia_core |
| 00:51.47 | Bradipo | An upgrade upgrades any packages that need it. |
| 00:51.56 | Bradipo | This is usually a good thing though. |
| 00:52.07 | tyce | idumea:/etc# apt-get remove pcmcia_core |
| 00:52.07 | tyce | Reading Package Lists... Done |
| 00:52.07 | tyce | Building Dependency Tree... Done |
| 00:52.07 | tyce | E: Couldn't find package pcmcia_core |
| 00:52.10 | Bradipo | I'm not sure what dselect-upgrade does differently. |
| 00:52.12 | *** join/#utah Maquis (~Maquis@128.187.250.235) |
| 00:52.18 | Bradipo | Well, then you're set. |
| 00:52.20 | Bradipo | What's wrong? |
| 00:53.29 | tyce | I think I may be ok... I just got freaked when it started messing with a bunch of other packages |
| 00:53.47 | Bradipo | Hehe, that's what an upgrade does. |
| 00:53.50 | tyce | and my myth program guide disappeared |
| 00:54.32 | Bradipo | Not sure why anything would disapper unless you used dselect to uninstall it. |
| 00:54.51 | Bradipo | Ok, this time I'm leaving for good... |
| 00:54.57 | Bradipo | My ride is here I believe. |
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| 01:04.19 | leinaD | hmm... I seem to be having a bit of trouble getting... no, wait |
| 01:04.42 | leinaD | nope, it's printing now. yay for things that work without (too much) trouble. |
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| 02:07.18 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
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| 02:47.32 | Uncle_Jesse | Anyone know how to clear the spamassassin db? |
| 02:48.49 | jakea | um.... reinstall ;) |
| 02:52.29 | scott__ | alright, so I was all curious about what this michael moore really said in F911 so I downloaded and watched it. Wow, what a bore! I love foreign policy but oh my gosh, that movie is so incredibly stupid. |
| 02:53.18 | Uncle_Jesse | scott__: you should read the document proving most of it false - I think it's called "FareignHype 911" |
| 02:53.43 | scott__ | I read part of one of them |
| 02:53.52 | Uncle_Jesse | The movie just made me hate the Michael Moore types even more |
| 02:54.45 | scott__ | the dumbest part is the end with his stupid comments on war etc |
| 02:55.05 | Uncle_Jesse | I couldn't even finish it - only saw about 3/4 of it |
| 02:55.05 | scott__ | I watched the first half and then I just skipped forward through the last hour |
| 03:02.15 | tensai | here's two great links about F911 |
| 03:02.20 | tensai | http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm |
| 03:02.28 | tensai | http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/18/173312/462 |
| 03:02.40 | tensai | the second is a rebuttal to the first |
| 03:04.41 | tensai | fwiw I think Michael Moore is the liberal version of Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh |
| 03:08.22 | Uncle_Jesse | Bill O'Reilly's not the most conservative man himself IMO |
| 03:08.59 | Uncle_Jesse | I do think it would be entertaining to see Michael Moore do his own radio show |
| 03:10.50 | jakea | He briefly had a TV show |
| 03:11.49 | scott__ | I'm not very familiar with him, but judging from F911 he doesn't have a character even 1% as lively as the popular radio hosts--michael reagan, savage, rush, etc. |
| 03:13.33 | Uncle_Jesse | that's probably true - if he had actual evidence and facts to show he may not need a personality though, at least to entertain other liberals out there. I don't know if I could stand him personally though. |
| 03:16.08 | jakea | FTR: http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/index.php?id=16 |
| 03:17.17 | jakea | the problem I have is that he trusts media sources too much IMHO. Having been in the middle of something "big" before and seeing how it ended up in the news with thing messed up, I don't always trust any news source |
| 03:21.42 | scott__ | Is he quoting from 1984 at the end of the movie? |
| 03:23.32 | jakea | as I recall, the movie ended with a clip of GWB giving some speech and goofing up a quote |
| 03:23.54 | jakea | but something from 1984 would not surprise me |
| 03:24.04 | scott__ | yeah, but a few seconds before that he quotes george orwell |
| 03:38.07 | scott__ | "war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation, the war is raged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory of eurasia or east asia but to keep the very structure of society intact" <-- one of the last comments of Moore on F911, trying to be all philosophical |
| 03:38.24 | scott__ | I hate liberal B.S. like that |
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| 05:43.11 | bonez39 | scott__: I am with you....enough psychobabble...;) |
| 05:53.04 | scott__ | it's funny to me how much of this psychobabble (good term!) I believed before the mission. |
| 05:53.45 | bonez39 | oh, where'd you serve? |
| 05:53.53 | scott__ | Mexico City. you? |
| 05:54.00 | scott__ | which mission? |
| 05:54.06 | bonez39 | married to a wife who served in honduras... |
| 05:54.24 | bonez39 | Frankfurt...our mission had just swallowed the Duesseldorf mission before I arrived... |
| 05:54.38 | scott__ | my mom served in frankfurt in..oh about 72 or 74 or somewhere I guess |
| 05:55.24 | scott__ | I hear the german bread is great..like the pastries or something |
| 05:55.54 | scott__ | have you gone back to visit? my mom never has, which is a real shame |
| 05:56.09 | bonez39 | oh, there is nothing to equal german bread.....rye....rye mix........vollkorn ...it's all great bread |
| 05:56.18 | bonez39 | never have been back..how old are you, scott? |
| 05:56.35 | scott__ | have you had ruben sandwiches? I don't know if it's really authentic, but my mom makes them and they're great |
| 05:56.43 | scott__ | 21 |
| 05:57.33 | bonez39 | yeah.... |
| 05:57.47 | bonez39 | your mom....how old? 50 or around 50? |
| 05:57.54 | scott__ | they're on toasted rye bread, with some white type of cheese melted, and some type of meat that smells a bit odd and that krout stuff |
| 05:58.10 | scott__ | yeah, 48 I think |
| 06:04.11 | bonez39 | oh.....all good stuff.. |
| 06:04.28 | bonez39 | which mission was your mom in? ..oh frankfurt..ok... |
| 06:04.34 | bonez39 | does she ever get on here? |
| 06:04.47 | bonez39 | I wonder if President Kindt was her mission president then? |
| 06:05.36 | scott__ | nope, she has no clue how to use a comp :) |
| 06:05.45 | scott__ | I don't know who was her pres.. |
| 06:08.13 | bonez39 | oh, should ask her sometime... |
| 06:28.36 | Tene | anyone know of an ftp client with autoresume? |
| 06:32.52 | SpecialK | mmm. . . Ruebens. Rye Bread, Thousand Island Dressing, Saur Kraut, Corned Beef and Swiss Cheeses. . . .. oghghhghggh. . . . . . |
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