| 00:18.24 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 00:20.22 | spr | can i just tell you all how much i love reading code |
| 00:21.44 | byronc | which code have you been reading? |
| 00:39.58 | bytheway | spr: I'm going to be one of the developers for the new gospelink |
| 00:42.30 | spr | the love code |
| 00:56.48 | *** join/#utah SEKimn27 (~sebert@128.187.175.125) |
| 01:00.53 | spr | bytheway, does that mean I can use it in linux? |
| 01:02.16 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@knine.byu.edu) |
| 01:02.36 | bytheway | spr it'll be web based |
| 01:03.04 | bytheway | and we'll make sure it'll work in mozilla |
| 01:03.12 | spr | nifty. subscription? or is that not decided? |
| 01:03.18 | bytheway | subscription |
| 01:03.26 | spr | cool. |
| 01:03.34 | bytheway | I think it's a good way to do things. |
| 01:03.53 | spr | any release date ideas? |
| 01:03.56 | bytheway | Patching the gui client got to be not worth the trouble. |
| 01:04.17 | bytheway | spr: we haven't started development yet, but we've begun the preliminaries. |
| 01:04.30 | bytheway | we plan to start development early may (I hope) |
| 01:05.17 | bytheway | we're all excited to begin working on it. |
| 01:05.55 | spr | i bet, sounds like a fun project |
| 01:06.32 | bytheway | we're going to be using the same software that runs deseretbook (openacs), and we'll be using postgres for the database |
| 01:06.49 | bytheway | full-text search will be done with the tsearch2 contrib module. |
| 01:07.31 | bytheway | so, it'll be run almost completely on opensource software (not including our custom development, of course) |
| 01:08.50 | *** join/#utah wshearer (~wade@208.186.134.102) |
| 01:09.08 | spr | nice |
| 01:30.59 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@65.218.37.130) |
| 01:50.31 | *** join/#utah synic_ (~synic@65-100-254-227.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:11.07 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@65.218.37.130) |
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| 02:17.51 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 02:19.06 | *** join/#utah etahhhh (~etah52@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 02:20.35 | etahhhh | so... |
| 02:20.38 | etahhhh | many firefox users out there? |
| 02:21.27 | etahhhh | does firefox ever lock synic out of his own profile? |
| 02:21.49 | synic_ | what do you mean? |
| 02:22.31 | etahhhh | when it starts up and tells you to choose a user profile, because yours is 'in use' |
| 02:22.34 | synic_ | you mean when it's already running and you try to launch a new process? |
| 02:22.40 | synic_ | ah. I wrote a script to fix that. |
| 02:22.48 | etahhhh | nice |
| 02:22.52 | synic_ | http://linuxhelp.homeunix.com/firefox.pl |
| 02:22.57 | synic_ | you may need to edit parts of it |
| 02:23.07 | etahhhh | thx, i'll check it out |
| 02:23.15 | etahhhh | overall, i like firefox a lot |
| 02:23.22 | etahhhh | but that is one very annoying thing |
| 02:23.58 | idahoJoe | firefox hasn't ever locked me out of my profile |
| 02:24.23 | synic_ | yeah, it annoyed me too. Some distros make their own scripts, though |
| 02:24.26 | idahoJoe | however if it ever did, I would simply create a new profile, and copy items that I wanted from the old to the new (bookmarks etc) |
| 02:24.36 | etahhhh | yeah, has only happened a couple of times |
| 02:24.54 | etahhhh | and that is what i did, so if I couldn't get in mine, then I had a backup |
| 02:25.02 | synic_ | just put the thing in /usr/bin, chmod +x it, edit all your launchers to run firefox.pl instead, and you're fixed. |
| 02:25.04 | etahhhh | but sometimes it isn't up-to-date |
| 02:25.58 | idahoJoe | so you use your backup on a 'regular' basis then? |
| 02:26.20 | etahhhh | no, probably once a month since it was released |
| 02:26.56 | etahhhh | so really only 2-3 times |
| 02:27.22 | etahhhh | at first I thought it was a fluke, but now it is a bug |
| 02:27.26 | synic_ | alright... laptop battery is running out of juice. |
| 02:27.28 | synic_ | ttyl |
| 02:27.35 | etahhhh | ciao |
| 02:27.42 | etahhhh | shoot, missed him |
| 02:29.12 | etahhhh | idahoJoe, haven't seen you in here much |
| 02:29.21 | etahhhh | did you just start hanging out here? |
| 02:29.27 | etahhhh | recently return? |
| 02:29.38 | etahhhh | not much going on in #idaho? |
| 02:29.46 | etahhhh | so many questions... |
| 02:30.10 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@dsl233.sisna.com) |
| 02:30.37 | idahoJoe | haven't been to #idaho |
| 02:31.02 | idahoJoe | I've got friends that moved to #utah from another server, and I kind of followed them |
| 02:31.14 | Jayce^ | cool |
| 02:31.19 | idahoJoe | I graduated from USU in '01 |
| 02:31.24 | etahhhh | nice, glad to have you |
| 02:31.29 | etahhhh | what are you doing now? |
| 02:31.30 | idahoJoe | thanks |
| 02:31.54 | etahhhh | this channel is actually getting stronger |
| 02:31.55 | idahoJoe | I've been around for a week or two now (formerly slxzp) |
| 02:32.10 | etahhhh | right, i remember that nick |
| 02:32.22 | etahhhh | i told you to register it |
| 02:32.40 | etahhhh | it is good to see so many regulars in here |
| 02:32.50 | idahoJoe | it may have been you that I told that I didn't want stuck with that nick. (: |
| 02:33.05 | idahoJoe | it just didn't roll off the tongue well. (: |
| 02:33.12 | etahhhh | yep, completely understandable |
| 02:33.51 | idahoJoe | btw, does anyone in here do webpages? (specifically frames) |
| 02:34.34 | wshearer | what are you doing that would require frames? |
| 02:34.48 | etahhhh | i've done web-pages and frames, but that is no promise |
| 02:35.05 | idahoJoe | I generally don't like frames either, however I've been asked to help figure out a problem someone is having |
| 02:35.36 | wshearer | that's easy... they are using frames... the problem |
| 02:35.49 | wshearer | this is just a matter of opinion either |
| 02:35.49 | idahoJoe | the problem is that his inner-frame is trying to do a page redirect, however, it's erroring out saying that the headers are already written. |
| 02:35.59 | idahoJoe | I'm guessing because the outer frame is still visible |
| 02:43.12 | idahoJoe | no ideas? |
| 02:44.40 | idahoJoe | etahhhh: re the 'what are you doing now'... I work at Micron in Boise. I have a family, and I do volunteer work |
| 02:45.01 | etahhhh | nice, how does micron treat you? |
| 02:45.27 | idahoJoe | decent, considering it's a memory manufacturer and the industry is so volitile |
| 02:45.45 | neybar | not to mention the memory |
| 02:45.45 | etahhhh | true |
| 02:45.55 | idahoJoe | but it allowed me to return 'home' to idaho |
| 02:46.09 | idahoJoe | neybar: (: |
| 02:46.15 | etahhhh | boise is a good place to live |
| 02:46.20 | idahoJoe | I like it here |
| 02:46.36 | idahoJoe | Troy McClain seems to like it here as well. |
| 02:46.49 | etahhhh | kind of in between eastern idaho and oregon |
| 02:47.10 | idahoJoe | fortunately unlike either |
| 02:47.29 | etahhhh | exact |
| 02:47.56 | etahhhh | doesn't want to succeed and doesn't fall in the 'jello' belt |
| 02:48.01 | etahhhh | as they say |
| 02:48.08 | idahoJoe | eastern idaho is to 'po-dunk' for me, and oregon is just... well it's just out there if you know what I mean. |
| 02:48.16 | idahoJoe | heh |
| 02:48.40 | etahhhh | yeah, until you get over the portland and the coast it is empty |
| 02:49.10 | etahhhh | there are _some_ pacific northwesterners in here, so careful what you say |
| 02:49.20 | etahhhh | ;) |
| 02:50.23 | idahoJoe | I kind of consider idaho to be part of the whole northwest region, except for the extreme liberalism you'll find in the pacific coast cities |
| 02:50.53 | idahoJoe | although with all the californians moving here, I can see us migrating that direction. |
| 02:51.34 | etahhhh | i think they are trying to get out, before cali falls into the sea |
| 02:51.42 | idahoJoe | heh |
| 02:51.59 | idahoJoe | so what part of the NW are #utahn's from? |
| 02:52.52 | Jayce^ | 'po-dunk' coastal town |
| 02:53.05 | etahhhh | weren't there some others from tri-cities? |
| 02:53.26 | etahhhh | nothing wrong with po-dunk coastal, if you can see the ocean |
| 02:53.35 | neybar | amen |
| 02:54.42 | Jayce^ | well, some mountains between me and the ocean proper, but 5 minutes any direction to sheltered salt water :) |
| 02:55.53 | etahhhh | how many people in here are 'self-employed'? |
| 02:56.39 | neybar | I am, but it isn't my main source of income |
| 02:57.02 | neybar | yet... |
| 02:57.19 | etahhhh | so you are also employed by someone else, or you're some sort of trust-fund kid |
| 02:57.41 | etahhhh | can't get at the money til you're 45 |
| 02:57.41 | etahhhh | :) |
| 02:57.46 | neybar | lol, no I am employed elsewhere |
| 02:58.37 | neybar | I'd be ok with the trust-find though if any of you are looking for benifiaries |
| 02:59.12 | Bradipo | Anyone here use Vipul's Razor? |
| 02:59.30 | neybar | in spamassassin |
| 03:00.14 | Jayce^ | s/s$/d/ |
| 03:00.19 | idahoJoe | what do you do Jayce^ ? |
| 03:00.47 | neybar | he pretends to work at home... doing stuff... |
| 03:00.52 | Jayce^ | program.. and of course be a man of many hats as all places require (db, sysadmin, etc) |
| 03:01.24 | *** join/#utah wshearer (~wade@208.186.134.102) |
| 03:01.33 | Jayce^ | idahoJoe, actually, I'm from just west of Seattle, from a very small town.. (yes seattle has a shoreline on it's west side) |
| 03:02.03 | Jayce^ | 45 mins - hour, depending on the ferry to be in very downtown seattle, but yet a world away |
| 03:03.05 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, in SA also.. |
| 03:03.43 | etahhhh | it is a challenge to make your own business go |
| 03:03.56 | Jayce^ | yes it is |
| 03:04.16 | neybar | esspecially if you are starting out with no significant capitol |
| 03:04.21 | Bradipo | So, is the SA razor just a non-interactive check? |
| 03:04.31 | Bradipo | Or do you have to have some kind of an account setup? |
| 03:04.36 | neybar | I am slowly building up, I hope to eventually make it my main source of income. |
| 03:04.45 | Jayce^ | non-interactive... |
| 03:05.09 | Bradipo | Do you also register spam? |
| 03:05.16 | Jayce^ | I dont' right now.. |
| 03:05.18 | etahhhh | neybar, that is also a challenge to find time to build your business |
| 03:06.12 | Bradipo | Indeed it is. |
| 03:06.39 | etahhhh | i used to not sleep at nite, that was when i could do stuff |
| 03:09.44 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, was thinking about something for spam, maybe you've already heard of this.. |
| 03:09.56 | Jayce^ | build an 'open-relay honeypot'... |
| 03:10.56 | Jayce^ | basically, a false open relay, but instead of actually relaying, say you do, then trap the info of the spammer.. |
| 03:11.05 | Jayce^ | share that with other anti-spammers |
| 03:11.22 | Bradipo | Jayce^: Oh yeah. |
| 03:11.39 | Bradipo | I've considered setting up a open relay honeypot many times. |
| 03:11.45 | Bradipo | It would be really easy to do. |
| 03:11.52 | Jayce^ | been thinking about the sharing aspect.. |
| 03:11.56 | Bradipo | Just setup qmail and make the default delivery instruction deliver to /dev/null |
| 03:12.03 | Bradipo | Ahh. |
| 03:12.15 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 03:12.25 | Bradipo | The only problem there is that you would have to keep it a closed community. |
| 03:12.27 | Jayce^ | instead of /dev/null, database the important stuff |
| 03:12.29 | Jayce^ | right |
| 03:12.43 | Jayce^ | but figure, if you get isp's to sign onto that |
| 03:12.44 | Bradipo | Deliver to /dev/null but record the IP address in a database. |
| 03:12.50 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 03:13.08 | Bradipo | Some how build up trust... |
| 03:13.23 | Bradipo | I like it. |
| 03:14.01 | Jayce^ | not just the IP.. you could probably start detecting a lot of info if you analyzed to is being delivered too |
| 03:14.09 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 03:14.14 | Bradipo | But I want to block it at the server level. |
| 03:14.17 | Bradipo | Which means RBL. |
| 03:14.20 | Jayce^ | figure, they probably deliver to themselves.. |
| 03:14.30 | Bradipo | Hmm. |
| 03:14.39 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 03:14.43 | Jayce^ | and the isp's would want to know what spammers are hitting large groups of their clients. |
| 03:14.46 | Bradipo | Track all the envelope information, etc... |
| 03:16.48 | etahhhh | you guys should write a trojan that does this on windoze machines and reports stats back to you |
| 03:17.35 | Bradipo | lol |
| 03:17.43 | etahhhh | :) |
| 03:20.26 | Bradipo | Do we actively set spam traps? |
| 03:20.43 | Bradipo | Or do we just setup an open relay and let their open relay probes discover us? |
| 03:22.24 | Jayce^ | dunno |
| 03:22.33 | Jayce^ | to bait, or not to bait.. |
| 03:22.47 | Jayce^ | probably catch different spammer groups with different methods |
| 03:23.37 | Bradipo | Man. |
| 03:24.02 | Bradipo | If we had a massive open relay honeypot, would the federal agencies come knocking for information? :-) |
| 03:24.38 | Jayce^ | dunno |
| 03:24.49 | Jayce^ | in one way, it might 'taint' the open relay usage.. |
| 03:25.00 | Jayce^ | they dont' know if the one they are using works... |
| 03:25.12 | Jayce^ | probably start seeing lots of test batches I bet |
| 03:25.28 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 03:25.47 | Bradipo | Any one of their addresses could be a test to see if the open relay even relays. |
| 03:25.51 | Jayce^ | heh, maybe you could then warn isp's of incoming spam surges, based on them testing the relays |
| 03:26.04 | Jayce^ | yeah, that was the biggest flaw I came up with |
| 03:26.30 | Bradipo | Hmm, maybe we let it relay for a bit just to convince them. |
| 03:26.41 | Bradipo | Sure we'll get blacklisted and probably flamed/called on it. |
| 03:27.00 | Bradipo | But then we turn it off and let spammers continue to think its working. |
| 03:27.15 | Jayce^ | right, then try and get those people to join in on the honeypot |
| 03:27.18 | Bradipo | I wonder how much of the world's spam actually comes from open relays. |
| 03:27.33 | Bradipo | Well, I don't think I would mention anything to them about it. |
| 03:27.44 | Bradipo | Just tell them that we fat fingered something and are working on fixing it. |
| 03:28.12 | Bradipo | Maybe we only allow people to know about it if their PGP trust level is good enough. :-) |
| 03:28.23 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 03:28.32 | Jayce^ | anyways, that was an idea I've been tossing around a little |
| 03:28.38 | Jayce^ | thoguht you might find it interesting.. |
| 03:28.41 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 03:28.47 | Jayce^ | bring it to the plug meeting :) |
| 03:29.05 | Bradipo | It wouldn't be hard to setup really. |
| 03:30.36 | Bradipo | I'm looking at my firewall logs... |
| 03:30.47 | Bradipo | See how many SYNs I block on port 25. |
| 03:31.13 | Bradipo | Not many. |
| 03:31.22 | Bradipo | My honey pot would have caught 211.217.235.161 |
| 03:32.12 | *** join/#utah etahhhh (~etah@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 03:32.21 | Bradipo | That's the only IP that scanned my network on port 25 |
| 03:33.01 | Bradipo | So, how do I turn on razor checking in SA? |
| 03:36.09 | Jayce^ | http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/UsingRazor |
| 03:37.26 | Bradipo | Also, is it better to use Razor2? |
| 03:37.33 | Bradipo | Or is Razor2 still new? |
| 03:37.48 | Bradipo | Looks like there is a patch for Razor2. |
| 03:37.54 | Jayce^ | haven't looked at that.. |
| 03:38.16 | Jayce^ | cool, spamassassin -r < msg.txt will do all the reporting, as well as enter it as spam into your bayes db |
| 03:40.57 | *** join/#utah wshearer (~wade@208.186.134.102) |
| 03:41.01 | neybar | Bradipo: I hear you know about .forward files... I have a user that wants to shutdown an email address but keep other aliases. He wants an auto responder setup on one alias that rejects email and tells the sender to call him for his new email address. |
| 03:41.54 | Bradipo | debug: Razor2 is not available |
| 03:42.00 | Bradipo | Bummer. :-( |
| 03:42.16 | Bradipo | neybar: are we talking about a .qmail or a .forward? |
| 03:42.37 | neybar | .forward this particular system is running exim |
| 03:43.01 | Bradipo | I don't know much about exim unfortunately. |
| 03:43.19 | Bradipo | In fact, my last attempt at modifying a .forward in exim resulted in no email being delivered at all. :-) |
| 03:43.25 | Bradipo | And I was trying to do something similar. |
| 03:43.30 | neybar | lol |
| 03:43.35 | Bradipo | exim has a weird language that can be used in the .forward though. |
| 03:43.46 | Bradipo | Kind of cool if you can learn it I suppose. |
| 03:43.53 | Bradipo | Do all aliases get delivered to that one .forward? |
| 03:44.02 | neybar | probably |
| 03:44.08 | Bradipo | Or does exim have some kind of an extension alias system ala + or -? |
| 03:44.31 | neybar | I've never actually used .forwards before... |
| 03:45.19 | Bradipo | I have, but not enough to know how to do that with exim. |
| 03:45.49 | Bradipo | I know how to do this with qmail easily. |
| 03:46.13 | neybar | just for future reference then, how do you do it with qmail? |
| 03:46.48 | Bradipo | In the .qmail-alias file: | echo "This address is no longer valid, please call 555-1212"; exit 100 |
| 03:47.00 | Bradipo | Not really an autoresponder per se, but it gets the job done. |
| 03:47.10 | neybar | that's all I need :-) |
| 03:47.37 | Bradipo | That basically tells qmail to bounce the message and give the output as the reason. |
| 03:48.13 | Bradipo | If you don't have control over the alias file then you would have to get more creative. |
| 03:48.58 | neybar | so has Jayce^ hit you up for a qmail presentation yet? I would love to learn more about it. |
| 03:49.33 | Bradipo | I think there was a qmail presentation a few months ago. |
| 03:50.50 | Jayce^ | no. last year (or the year before maybe) we had a comaprative discussion on qmail vs postfix.. |
| 03:51.01 | Jayce^ | exim and sendmail didn't have supporters willing to discuss it :) |
| 03:51.52 | Bradipo | It was last year I believe. |
| 03:52.09 | Bradipo | I would be interested in learning more about exim. |
| 03:52.33 | Bradipo | Not because I want to run it, but because I would like to be able to answer questions like neybar's :-) |
| 03:52.54 | neybar | or so that I don't have to ask them as often :-) |
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| 04:06.49 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@65.218.37.130) |
| 04:07.55 | Bradipo | Jayce^: Does SpamAssassin not have built-in support for Razor? |
| 04:08.17 | Bradipo | I mean, do I have to actually install something other than just SA. |
| 04:11.15 | Jayce^ | no, you have to install razor, and sa.. |
| 04:11.22 | Jayce^ | sa will then use it, if it's in the path |
| 04:11.23 | Bradipo | Aha. |
| 04:11.36 | Bradipo | That's why it couldn't find it when running the Makefile.PL |
| 04:12.04 | Bradipo | I assume I need razor-agents only? |
| 04:12.13 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 04:16.36 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@65.218.37.130) |