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| 00:02.11 | wolfepak | ah |
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| 00:55.29 | Hanuman | anyone around tonight? |
| 00:56.40 | Hanuman | never mind then ;-) |
| 00:56.55 | synic | :P |
| 00:57.09 | synic | not nice |
| 00:57.59 | Hanuman | I'm in class right now bored - going over simple linear algebra |
| 00:58.28 | synic | I should probably work or something |
| 00:58.34 | Hanuman | yeah - probably |
| 00:58.41 | Hanuman | I should probably learn or something |
| 00:58.51 | synic | meh |
| 00:58.57 | synic | :) |
| 00:58.58 | Hanuman | although most of this stuff I learned back in High School |
| 00:59.06 | Hanuman | stupid to have to learn again |
| 00:59.37 | synic | how are you connected? |
| 01:01.49 | Hanuman | there's a wireless connection somewhere around campus |
| 01:01.54 | Hanuman | I should warchalk the place |
| 01:02.44 | synic | lol |
| 01:07.15 | Hanuman | well, got the homework, now I can go home... (me hates physical class time) |
| 01:08.18 | synic | you staying for the meeting? |
| 01:08.26 | synic | oh, right, you're not at BYU |
| 01:08.27 | synic | d'oh. |
| 01:08.36 | Hanuman | yeah - I'm in VA right now |
| 01:08.42 | emcnabb | synic, so are you going to the meeting? |
| 01:08.46 | Hanuman | I'm thinking of an MBA at BYU though |
| 01:08.52 | synic | emcnabb: yeah, gonna bring my boss |
| 01:08.55 | emcnabb | rock on |
| 01:09.15 | emcnabb | time to go get my laundry |
| 01:09.17 | emcnabb | bbl |
| 01:09.19 | synic | he used to code in C# |
| 01:09.27 | Hanuman | emcnabb? |
| 01:09.31 | Hanuman | or your boss? |
| 01:09.37 | synic | my boss |
| 01:09.45 | Hanuman | I don't get the purpose for another language |
| 01:09.59 | Hanuman | that does essentially the same thing as another already-written language |
| 01:10.14 | synic | me neither. maybe the meeting will clear that up. |
| 01:10.26 | Hanuman | What's the mtg on tonight? |
| 01:10.28 | synic | I've heard of people reading java books to learn C# |
| 01:10.32 | synic | it's on .NET and Mono |
| 01:10.42 | Hanuman | very cool topic |
| 01:10.59 | Hanuman | I'm still trying to find time to learn it |
| 01:11.17 | synic | lol, yeah, hopefully tonight will clear up the question in my mind "what in the world is .NET?" |
| 01:11.22 | Hanuman | Need to learn Java first, though |
| 01:11.46 | Hanuman | synic: it's very useful, but it will be interesting to see what it evolves into |
| 01:12.04 | Hanuman | It's just not standard enough right now to begin using it IMO |
| 01:12.42 | synic | why do you need to learn Java first? |
| 01:13.25 | Hanuman | I just want to know it for my resume |
| 01:13.30 | synic | ah |
| 01:13.37 | Hanuman | there are a ton of good paying jobs out there for Java programmers |
| 01:13.42 | synic | I dig it. It's got a really clean syntax |
| 01:13.58 | Hanuman | Yeah - the more I learn the more I'm beginning to like it. |
| 01:14.05 | Hanuman | I still like perl better though |
| 01:14.22 | synic | I'm not sure what I like this week. |
| 01:14.24 | Hanuman | and C++ is just cool because of its power |
| 01:14.51 | synic | I can see things I really like in all the languages I've been learning or know |
| 01:14.59 | synic | so... I just can't decide :/ |
| 01:15.09 | synic | I think my next app would be in Ruby, but that's just because I'm learning it now |
| 01:15.23 | Hanuman | I would use Java most likely for gui apps, mod_perl for web_apps, and C++ for any app that can't be written by the others |
| 01:15.49 | synic | I dunno, C++ and gtkmm are pretty slick. I like gtk more than I like swing |
| 01:16.07 | Hanuman | yeah - for a linux app C++ is hard to pass by |
| 01:16.19 | Hanuman | but Java is so easy to maintain and port w/ little trouble |
| 01:16.58 | synic | yeah... easy to port is a great feature |
| 01:17.05 | Hanuman | I like C++'s ability to finely integrate w/ the OS |
| 01:17.46 | synic | so are you against C then? |
| 01:17.51 | synic | cause I can't stand C, lol |
| 01:18.09 | Hanuman | never really used C - I learned on C++ |
| 01:18.18 | synic | me too.. probably why I don't like C |
| 01:18.22 | Hanuman | forgive me if I stop talking - my laptop is about to lose power |
| 01:18.30 | synic | np |
| 01:18.35 | Hanuman | C is a bit too limited if you ask me |
| 01:19.10 | synic | it's just too inconsistent |
| 01:19.31 | synic | but... I haven't done a lot with it, so I might be totally in left field |
| 01:19.34 | synic | just what I have seen. |
| 01:19.47 | synic | so many libraries use so many different coding styles and stuff |
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| 01:29.23 | hans | emcnabb: ping |
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| 02:28.34 | Tenebram | EMCNABB! |
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| 04:13.56 | Ruis | fine looking crowd in here. |
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| 04:28.03 | mhalcrow | Hm. |
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| 04:39.27 | Jayce^ | mind |
| 04:40.20 | Ruis | so does anyone here use debian? |
| 04:44.06 | Jayce^ | some |
| 04:44.11 | Jayce^ | hans is the main user |
| 04:44.17 | Jayce^ | he actually knows what he's doing with it |
| 04:44.56 | Ruis | heh. that's kinda nice. :) |
| 04:45.04 | Ruis | i like using it, but have no idea what i'm really doing. |
| 04:45.47 | Ruis | i just sent a nice long message to the list about my frustrations with debian. Or at least, my frustrations about my lack of knowledge. |
| 04:52.24 | Hanuman | heh - like google's design for today |
| 04:55.32 | Hanuman | hey - I'm trying to install fedora on a pentium 166 32 Mb RAM computer at work and it abnormally exits when loading anaconda |
| 04:55.50 | Hanuman | is this a RAM issue or a bad CD issue do you think? |
| 04:57.09 | Jayce^ | dunno |
| 04:57.18 | synic | bleh... I was all excited about going to my first UUG meeting tonight... and I ended up having to stay late at work |
| 04:57.20 | Jayce^ | you try doing a text installation version? |
| 04:57.31 | Jayce^ | synic, well, there is next week :) |
| 04:57.38 | synic | yeah. |
| 04:57.39 | Jayce^ | I hear the presenter and topic are way cool |
| 04:57.50 | Hanuman | Jayce^: tried but for some reason it still tries to load anaconda |
| 04:57.54 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 04:58.23 | adminsmurf | Way cool and I wasn't even there |
| 04:58.50 | Jayce^ | no, not today's, but next weeks :) |
| 04:59.07 | Jayce^ | Ruis, mandrake is pretty good, but only for a desktop IMHO |
| 04:59.08 | adminsmurf | Who was today? |
| 04:59.17 | Jayce^ | sjansend and another |
| 04:59.39 | Jayce^ | Ruis, you can set up rpm sources, and urpmi will figure out deps, download, and install.. kinda like apt-get |
| 04:59.44 | adminsmurf | DUH, sat next to them at PLUG |
| 05:00.48 | Jayce^ | welcome ned :) |
| 05:00.53 | adminsmurf | Yo |
| 05:01.02 | Jayce^ | any luck on that rack? |
| 05:01.24 | Ruis | urpmi? is that a generic linux program or does it run under a certain distro? |
| 05:01.27 | adminsmurf | Forgot to ask and then my boss left |
| 05:01.40 | adminsmurf | You can come down anytime and look at it. |
| 05:02.34 | Jayce^ | hrmm.. actually have to go to provo tomorrow afternoon |
| 05:02.47 | adminsmurf | urpmi is for Mandrake |
| 05:02.54 | Jayce^ | give me your contact info.. maybe I'll be able to |
| 05:03.02 | Jayce^ | yes, urpmi is for mdk.. |
| 05:03.21 | Ruis | alright. i don't have a mandrake system handy to play with it, but I'll be sure to check it out. |
| 05:03.25 | adminsmurf | Should be there most the day. |
| 05:04.02 | adminsmurf | Better call first, need to haul some old PC's in. |
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| 05:05.43 | Hanuman | #fedora is an excellent channel - very friendly and helpful |
| 05:05.53 | adminsmurf | I was thinking of putting fedora on my laptop, any issues I should know about |
| 05:07.11 | Hanuman | well, I'm having problems running the installer on a Pentium 166 32 Mb machine |
| 05:07.49 | adminsmurf | This is a p3 750mhz, dual boot with w2k |
| 05:08.10 | Jayce^ | Ruis, just ask in here when you get it.. |
| 05:09.16 | Hanuman | adminsmurf: you should have no problems. I have only used beta on bigger machines, but beta wasn't too bad - it wasn't all the way ready though when I tried it. |
| 05:09.31 | Ruis | ok, thanks Jayce^ |
| 05:09.37 | Hanuman | I think I'm going to upgrade either my server or dual-boot desktop with Fedora some day |
| 05:12.59 | adminsmurf | I'll need to get the fedora iso, want to get it done this weekend. |
| 05:13.22 | Hanuman | fedora.redhat.com has torrent links |
| 05:13.50 | adminsmurf | I haven't setup torrent yet, is it anything like jigdo |
| 05:14.59 | Ruis | not sure what jigdo is, but bittorrent is a nice p2p app that opens a small .torrent file you download from somewhere and connects to a server to get a list of other people to download it from. |
| 05:15.13 | Ruis | it's usually pretty speedy depending on how many others are sharing it. |
| 05:15.43 | Ruis | you'll notice your outgoing bandwidth is usually higher than your incoming bandwidth. |
| 05:15.51 | adminsmurf | debian uses jigdo, mainly to break up iso's into smaller chunks |
| 05:16.01 | adminsmurf | for downloading |
| 05:16.44 | Ruis | oh. the cool thing with torrents is that one person can be the main distributor and send the file to as many people as they want in the same time it would take them to send the file to one person. |
| 05:17.12 | Hanuman | the fedora torrent's are pretty active, making the download fairly speedy |
| 05:18.16 | Ruis | if you ever post a movie or something and are expecting to get slashdotted, you can post a torrent file instead so your server doesn't get killed. |
| 05:18.51 | adminsmurf | I have to try bittorrent, thanks |
| 05:19.05 | Jayce^ | adminsmurf, dcc timed out |
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| 06:14.04 | wolfepak | kinda slow in here |
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| 14:10.41 | Hanuman | Good morning guys |
| 14:11.04 | Hanuman | Jayce^: look what you started - now we're in a distro war! ;-) |
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| 14:22.34 | bigdog | how can I set up syslog to log to a file in a users home directory and have the permission set for that user instead of the root permissions? |
| 14:29.47 | Hanuman | bigdog: which syslog? |
| 14:30.04 | Hanuman | anyone see foxtrot today? |
| 14:30.58 | bigdog | the normal syslogd that comes with mandrake? |
| 14:32.33 | bigdog | it is the sysklogd |
| 14:32.36 | Hanuman | I'm not very familiar with that |
| 14:33.39 | bigdog | What happens if i create a log file in the users directory with their permissions and have syslog log to that file? What are the security implications with that? |
| 14:35.18 | Hanuman | if only that user can read it I wouldn't think any, but I'm not the biggest security expert when it comes to permissions |
| 14:36.48 | bigdog | thanks...i might try and see how it works |
| 14:37.20 | bigdog | is there going to be a sllug meeting this month, i have not seen anything on the website yet? |
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| 14:59.43 | Mecworks_ | http://www.fool.com/news/mft/2004/mft04011510.htm?source=eptyholnk303100&logvisit=y&npu=y&bounce=y&bounce2=y |
| 15:06.16 | voip | ouch |
| 15:12.30 | Mecworks_ | yep |
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| 16:06.13 | emcnabb | is anyone here really familiar with PAM? |
| 16:07.07 | Hanuman | I know a PAM, but I'm not all that familiar with her thank goodness |
| 16:07.31 | emcnabb | haha |
| 16:07.36 | Hanuman | I'm very familiar with SPAM |
| 16:07.42 | Hanuman | (see Foxtrot today) |
| 16:07.49 | emcnabb | ok |
| 16:08.18 | emcnabb | haha |
| 16:08.21 | emcnabb | that's great |
| 16:08.47 | Hanuman | That's actually a cool idea - Monty Python e-mail client |
| 16:09.01 | emcnabb | you could write it in python |
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| 16:09.28 | Hanuman | lol |
| 16:09.58 | Hanuman | And use MySQL, written by Monty |
| 16:10.22 | Hanuman | Or better yet, Monty from MySQL should write it in Python |
| 16:12.02 | Hanuman | did I mention TGIF? |
| 16:13.07 | Hanuman | Note to Fedora users - Fedora *will not* install on 32 Mb of RAM |
| 16:13.20 | Hanuman | it will run on that memory, though after it's installed |
| 16:13.45 | Hanuman | and that's a Red Hat problem - been one for a couple of previous releases |
| 16:15.49 | emcnabb | you can still do the text login though, right? |
| 16:15.55 | emcnabb | text install |
| 16:15.55 | emcnabb | sorry |
| 16:20.41 | tensai | it should fallback to a text install if it can't start X |
| 16:28.29 | Hanuman | emcnabb: not w/ 32Mb of RAM |
| 16:28.44 | Hanuman | it fails on starting anaconda |
| 16:29.20 | Hanuman | You can install it on a beefier system though and set it to install for an i586 vs i686 system, though |
| 16:29.28 | Hanuman | then move the harddrive to the smaller system |
| 16:29.40 | Hanuman | also, it works w/ 64 Mb RAM on a P166 |
| 16:39.32 | levi | I used to run Linux on an old 10Mb RAM 486. Stupid bloated RedHat. ;) |
| 16:41.48 | Hanuman | well, it's just the install that's bloated |
| 16:42.08 | Hanuman | you can keep the system small once you've gotten through the small |
| 16:42.17 | Jayce^ | yeah, wait till you see the actual system :) |
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| 16:45.03 | bbeattie | Jayce^: did plug have a january meeting? |
| 16:45.35 | Jayce^ | yup, wednesday |
| 16:45.51 | Jayce^ | were you checking the webpage? |
| 16:49.56 | bbeattie | yes |
| 16:50.11 | bbeattie | just checking to see if I had been mentioned for feb, and what date/time/location.. |
| 16:50.41 | Jayce^ | actually, I wanted to get ahold of you for a blurb |
| 16:50.54 | Jayce^ | what exactly you wanted to cover about it, etc.. |
| 16:51.17 | Jayce^ | as for the other info, 2nd wednesday, 7:30 ... via-west building (canopy 1) |
| 16:53.58 | Hanuman | s/small$/install/ |
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| 17:13.22 | bbeattie | jayce^ in the cofference room there? first floor south west side? |
| 17:14.07 | Jayce^ | yup |
| 17:16.00 | bbeattie | blurb: "Linux HTPC : DVD, HDTV, Music. Everything you need to know and more. |
| 17:16.07 | bbeattie | is that too short? |
| 17:16.17 | Jayce^ | umm, yeah :) |
| 17:16.26 | Ryan1 | is this for a new meeting? |
| 17:17.13 | Jayce^ | next months |
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| 17:18.03 | Ryan1 | so is this mythTV, then? I'm building a mythTV box right now. |
| 17:18.15 | Jayce^ | yes |
| 17:20.02 | dmdavis | what is mythTV? |
| 17:20.09 | bbeattie | mythtv.org |
| 17:20.13 | Hanuman | mythTV is cool |
| 17:20.19 | bbeattie | full HTPC package |
| 17:20.25 | bbeattie | pvr, tivo, and more |
| 17:20.42 | Jayce^ | just a display tool |
| 17:20.51 | Ryan1 | I've got two now. very patient wife. :) |
| 17:20.56 | bbeattie | Jayce^: I'm trying to think up a blurb, just a moment |
| 17:20.58 | Ryan1 | two capture cards, that is. |
| 17:21.10 | Jayce^ | that's cool bbeattie |
| 17:22.13 | Ryan1 | hehe. I haven't even installed one of them yet. Waiting for me to finish the case before I build it. |
| 17:22.28 | Ryan1 | the first card is in my desktop PC right now, but it's earmarked for the mythTV box. |
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| 17:24.22 | Ryan1 | Has anyone done RAID 0 (striping) before? I'm considering setting up striping for the two disks I'm putting in the new box. |
| 17:25.37 | bbeattie | Blurb, "So you have a 600mhz system and a capture card sitting around and you don't know what to do with it. The answer is a new hobby of Linux HTPC. Brandon Beattie will be discuss Linux and it's current state in PVR/HTPC. He will cover everything from designing to configuring the X server for HDTV. Topics will also include MythTV, Xine, Mplayer, and optimizations. [Feel free to edit] |
| 17:25.52 | tensai | Ryan1: yes, I've done a RAID 0 |
| 17:26.03 | bbeattie | s/will be discuss/will discuss |
| 17:26.08 | Ryan1 | did you use md? |
| 17:26.19 | bbeattie | s/everything/topics |
| 17:26.42 | dmdavis | first, what is htpc? :) |
| 17:26.48 | dmdavis | second, when is that presentation? |
| 17:26.48 | Ryan1 | Home Theater PC |
| 17:26.51 | dmdavis | ah |
| 17:26.59 | bbeattie | Blurb, "So you have a 600mhz system and a capture card sitting around and you don't know what to do with it. The answer is a new hobby of Linux HTPC. Brandon Beattie will discuss Linux and it's current state in PVR/HTPC. He will cover topics from designing a MythBox to configuring the X server for HDTV. Topics will also include MythTV, Xine, Mplayer, and optimizations. [Feel free to edit] |
| 17:27.03 | Ryan1 | Microsoft now has a HTPC that they were pimping at CES. |
| 17:27.17 | tensai | Ryan1: I used whatever Redhat 7 used |
| 17:27.24 | Ryan1 | tens: thanks. |
| 17:27.32 | Ryan1 | they were also showing small |
| 17:27.50 | Ryan1 | 'client' boxes (basically mythfrontend in a small box) |
| 17:27.54 | bbeattie | Ryan1: it's an overpriced restricted piece of good hardware. :) |
| 17:28.11 | Ryan1 | oh, I agree. I just thought it was interesting how much it looked like mythTV |
| 17:28.43 | bbeattie | You can buid an identical system for half the cost and if you want what's best (and use windows) get TheaterTek. Much better solution than that MS Media Center box |
| 17:29.02 | Ryan1 | I'm not arguing that their HTPC was better, etc... Just that they appeared to have jumped on the bandwagon. |
| 17:29.12 | bbeattie | Ryan1: everyone's copying eachother really, tivo as far as I know was one of the first. |
| 17:29.28 | Ryan1 | yeah, but can't play xmame on tivo / MS HTPC... :) |
| 17:29.40 | bbeattie | I know. :) I just wanted to give my opinion on it, I see it too highly marketed at best buy and other stores. |
| 17:30.23 | Jayce^ | bbeattie, got an 'about the presenter' blurb too? |
| 17:30.26 | bbeattie | Ryan1: I've never configured my mythbox for mame, but I probably should for the meeting. (I've got 3 hdtv cards now, and getting PIP working with 2 has been fun. ;) (AKA taken all my time) |
| 17:30.26 | Ryan1 | the thing I *liked* about MS's solution, that I think would be good with mythTV would be a dedicated frontend box, small footprint, maybe running knoppmyth. |
| 17:30.52 | Ryan1 | I'm not quite ready to jump into hdtv, but I'm interested in seeing your setup with it. |
| 17:31.22 | tensai | you can separate out the front and back ends of mythtv onto two or more boxes |
| 17:31.43 | bbeattie | http://www.techshows.com/salt/seminarbios.htm#bbeattie? |
| 17:32.28 | Ryan1 | Yeah, I know, but I think the frontends for MS box are pretty inexpensive. Probably could do the same thing with linux-running Xbox'en, that way you can let MS subsidize your HTPC just like they do with theirs... |
| 17:33.05 | bbeattie | xbox's are $130 at overstock right now (20% off items) :) |
| 17:33.15 | Ryan1 | hehehe |
| 17:33.17 | bbeattie | I was tempted to get one, but I don't have time for it. :) |
| 17:33.36 | bbeattie | xbox hardware doesn't work well for HDTV though. :-/ |
| 17:33.42 | Ryan1 | that's my same problem, well, that and I'm overextended with the 'wife computer-buying credits'. |
| 17:33.51 | bbeattie | my amd 2600 is about 10% too slow |
| 17:34.56 | Jayce^ | but I won't be doing capture |
| 17:34.59 | Jayce^ | so it should be good |
| 17:35.01 | bbeattie | *nods* but non hdtv is fine for now, and really, HDTV is still not 100%. So a ghz system and a couple capture cards are just fine for now... Then when you can afford a P4 2.6w/HT get a HTPC linux box. ;) |
| 17:35.18 | Jayce^ | right |
| 17:35.35 | Jayce^ | when I get a 64 bit box, this one will go to the hdtv realm :) |
| 17:35.43 | Ryan1 | bb: what sources are you using for hdtv? |
| 17:36.51 | *** join/#utah wolfepak (~wolfe@dsc03-wei-ut-204-30-106-131.rasserver.net) |
| 17:37.04 | dmdavis | This section allows you to specify what items will be cleaned. |
| 17:37.04 | dmdavis | Cleaning Options |
| 17:37.04 | dmdavis | Simply select which items you want cleaned from the list of cleaning options. Any items that are checked in the list will be cleaned by default in any cleans. All items listed under "Deleted Files . Ignored for Quick Cleans" will only be cleaned during a deep clean. Due to the complexity of the operation, we do not recommend selecting the option to clean Names of Deleted Files if you have NTFS drives. Also, if you select the Sensitive Internet Data opti |
| 17:37.11 | dmdavis | Overwrite Options |
| 17:37.21 | dmdavis | oops |
| 17:37.23 | dmdavis | sorry |
| 17:37.26 | dmdavis | hit the paste button |
| 17:38.23 | emcnabb | dmdavis, hello |
| 17:38.46 | dmdavis | emcnabb: sup :) |
| 17:39.13 | emcnabb | nothing really |
| 17:39.16 | dmdavis | haven't been in IRC for a while, till someone mentioned irssi the other day |
| 17:39.17 | emcnabb | how are you doing? |
| 17:39.27 | emcnabb | we're glad to have you here :-) |
| 17:39.28 | dmdavis | great. just working |
| 17:40.49 | synic | emcnabb: I ended up having to work late... |
| 17:40.54 | synic | I'll have to come next week |
| 17:41.07 | emcnabb | ok, cool |
| 17:41.46 | synic | ya know, the manageral folks and their "emergencies" |
| 17:41.54 | synic | ;-) |
| 17:41.59 | Jayce^ | yeah, he really wants to hear that really cool speaker you have lined up for next week |
| 17:42.20 | synic | Jayce^: lemme guess, it's some weird looking monkey from the zoo? |
| 17:42.22 | Hanuman | dmdavis: that was me and hans that mentioned irssi :-) |
| 17:42.34 | Jayce^ | synic, no, quite the opposite :) |
| 17:42.48 | dmdavis | Hanuman: thanks. makes it convenient to IRC from work, since I ssh home |
| 17:43.09 | dmdavis | forwarding a BitchX session just doesn't cut it |
| 17:43.09 | Hanuman | certainly, and the admins can't read what you're typing either :-) |
| 17:43.10 | synic | Jayce^: lol |
| 17:43.40 | dmdavis | :) |
| 17:43.52 | emcnabb | Jayce^, people showed a lot of interest about your presentation next week |
| 17:44.21 | Jayce^ | cool, I need to poll your list about questions they have |
| 17:44.29 | Jayce^ | tune the presentation (well, write it actually) :) |
| 17:44.31 | dmdavis | Hanuman: is that nick for the Hindu god? |
| 17:44.51 | Jayce^ | since I have to use a mac anyways |
| 17:45.18 | Jayce^ | synic, I will cover some of it.. but too much is theoretical regarding regex... apocolpyse only |
| 17:45.33 | Hanuman | dmdavis: it's for the mythological character in the Ramayana - I don't think he's necessarily a God |
| 17:45.46 | emcnabb | Jayce^, the presentation you did last time was just right |
| 17:45.47 | Hanuman | He was Rama's Monkey friend that saved Him and Sinta |
| 17:45.49 | emcnabb | well, off to class |
| 17:45.50 | dmdavis | ah |
| 17:45.53 | emcnabb | later |
| 17:46.12 | dmdavis | by making all the monkeys make a monkey-bridge through the ocean, right? |
| 17:46.28 | Ryan1 | bbeattie: are you covering transcoding and writing to DVD+RW? |
| 17:46.35 | Jayce^ | emcnabb, the one I did last time I came up with in about an hour after SCO cancelled their forum |
| 17:46.39 | Jayce^ | and had no slides |
| 17:46.40 | Hanuman | dmdavis: I think that's the story IIRC |
| 17:46.53 | Jayce^ | seriously winging it |
| 17:47.43 | Hanuman | that and going to Bali every so often |
| 17:47.59 | Hanuman | wow - they have those in HS now? |
| 17:48.00 | emcnabb | Jayce^, and it was still really good |
| 17:48.40 | dmdavis | bbeattie: hey, when's your presentation? and is it UUG or PLUG? |
| 17:48.45 | dmdavis | or something else |
| 17:48.56 | dmdavis | Hanuman: at least in NY |
| 17:48.59 | Jayce^ | dmdavis, it's the plug meeting |
| 17:49.02 | Jayce^ | in february |
| 17:49.21 | synic | Jayce^: yeah, this will be cool. I'm not that great at RE |
| 17:49.22 | dmdavis | cuz man, looking at mythTV has me anxious to try it |
| 17:55.53 | Ryan1 | yeah, I just remembered I'm out of town during the MythTV presentation. Dang. |
| 17:55.56 | Hanuman | Jayce^: make sure to cover object-oriented perl and it's benefits over other languages |
| 17:56.50 | Hanuman | (ie by using hashes you only need one constructor) |
| 17:56.51 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, why, I'm only covering regular expression |
| 17:57.02 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 17:57.06 | Ryan1 | I think perl regexes is more than enough topic for the time... |
| 17:57.13 | Jayce^ | of course, regex can be first order objects :) |
| 17:57.33 | Hanuman | Jayce^: ah - thought you were covering perl |
| 17:57.45 | Jayce^ | nope.. just RE |
| 17:57.59 | Ryan1 | I'll *still* have to make sure my brain is empty before going to that one... |
| 17:58.23 | Ryan1 | regexes have always *just* escaped me. I figure out just enough to get done whatever I'm doing, then I forget it. |
| 17:58.34 | Jayce^ | Ryan1, the this will help |
| 18:01.28 | *** part/#utah wolfepak (~wolfe@dsc03-wei-ut-204-30-106-131.rasserver.net) |
| 18:10.56 | bbeattie | Ryan1: probably not. I am in the process of trying to capture vhs tapes and create dvd's from them, but that process isn't stable (Very ugly at best if it works, more workneeds to be done on tools) |
| 18:11.08 | bbeattie | dmdavis: at plug in feb. |
| 18:11.20 | dmdavis | thanks |
| 18:14.34 | brailsmt | hello from the heartland :) |
| 18:15.01 | dmdavis | sup |
| 18:16.35 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 18:17.08 | bbeattie | novel announced they'd protect people using _their_ version of linux, ibm, intel stated they'd back linux users, SCO said if they want to protect linux users, they should buy licensing, that's about it. |
| 18:17.49 | Jayce^ | sco said... if you don't want any lawsuits, pay us money now... |
| 18:17.54 | Jayce^ | :) again |
| 18:17.56 | Ryan1 | and Novell re-asserted that they own copyrights on Unix. |
| 18:17.58 | *** join/#utah justin__ (~justin@auth999-1.ycell.octelecom.net) |
| 18:18.20 | Jayce^ | they also admitted they haven't met all the specifics they were supposed to |
| 18:19.24 | Ryan1 | and SCO started threatening people in europe, as well as the USA. |
| 18:19.32 | Ryan1 | so, not much that's new. |
| 18:21.29 | *** join/#utah HarleyPig (~JS@65.105.156.40) |
| 18:23.08 | *** part/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@65.218.37.130) |
| 18:23.20 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@65.218.37.130) |
| 18:23.21 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 18:23.41 | Jayce^ | so, it turns out that ctrl-click on a tab in xchat will close the window :/ |
| 18:24.56 | dmdavis | :) |
| 18:25.09 | neybar_work | does anyone know the keyboard command to paste from the clipboard, not ctrl-v but the shortcut for the middle mouse button paste. |
| 18:26.25 | HarleyPig | Goatse is down! |
| 18:27.09 | *** join/#utah MdG_work (~mdg@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com) |
| 18:27.37 | Jayce^ | what are you ever going to do HarleyPig? |
| 18:27.40 | Jayce^ | neybar_work, no clue |
| 18:30.06 | justin__ | Hello, World. |
| 18:31.02 | Jayce^ | lo |
| 18:33.23 | HarleyPig | justin__: Are you a test bot? |
| 18:33.26 | brailsmt | well, it according to groklaw it looks like things are falling apart for SCO, at least it appears there is a major push against SCO... |
| 18:34.01 | brailsmt | i like the "Santa ate my homework" defense... |
| 18:34.01 | dmdavis | hey, can naim use msn or yahoo? |
| 18:35.18 | Jayce^ | dunno about naim.. gaim can.. |
| 18:35.55 | HarleyPig | dmdavis: Yes and no. Yes, but you/someone needs to write the plugin. |
| 18:36.15 | dmdavis | :) ah |
| 18:36.31 | brailsmt | i doubt the judge will buy into it... especially considering that they admit to not starting gathering information until 12-12-03 instead of, oh say... when they filed the lawsuit, not to mention 12-5-03 when they first knew they would have to reply... |
| 18:36.55 | dmdavis | what's the "Santa ate my homework" defense? |
| 18:37.52 | Ryan1 | Christmas break made it impossible to gather info |
| 18:38.00 | Jayce^ | dmdavis, what sco is doing.... saying they couldn't comply with the courts, because all their top execs took long christmas vacations.. |
| 18:38.12 | HarleyPig | When I was young I used to go skinny dipping ... |
| 18:38.21 | HarleyPig | ... now I go chunky dunking. |
| 18:38.25 | Jayce^ | and that they didnt' start trying to gather the info until the 12th.. |
| 18:38.27 | brailsmt | Declaration of Ryan E. Tibbitts |
| 18:38.27 | brailsmt | Wednesday, January 14 2004 @ 09:42 PM EST |
| 18:38.27 | brailsmt | Here is the Declaration of Ryan E. Tibbitts, which was attached to SCO's Notice of Compliance. It's his "Santa ate my files" document. Note that he says that he began gathering the outside directors' files only after December 12, so is Santa to blame? He writes: |
| 18:38.32 | brailsmt | "After this Court's Order on December 12, 2003, I began to coordinate the gathering of responsive information from SCO's outside directors." |
| 18:38.35 | brailsmt | The hearing was on December 5, not December 12. SCO knew from the 5th that they needed to be finished by January 12, but made no efforts until the order was signed on the 12th? |
| 18:38.38 | brailsmt | that is from groklaw... |
| 18:39.24 | brailsmt | SCO is run by some fools... |
| 18:39.40 | Jayce^ | I really hope that the magistrate and judge take offense to that |
| 18:39.49 | brailsmt | i am sure they will |
| 18:40.36 | brailsmt | sounds like fun... |
| 18:40.44 | brailsmt | i would go, but i am a few states away :) |
| 18:40.52 | brailsmt | 60 degrees here today |
| 18:41.01 | dmdavis | where are you? |
| 18:41.12 | brailsmt | a far cry from the single digits and fog of provo the last week |
| 18:41.23 | *** join/#utah tomeast (~teastmond@63-253-57-90.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 18:41.27 | brailsmt | dmdavis: Kansas City, Missouri |
| 18:41.27 | MdG_work | dmdavis... that doesn't stand for D Mark does it? |
| 18:41.52 | dmdavis | MdG_work: nope. Derek Macrae |
| 18:41.54 | brailsmt | i just moved here after graduating from BYU in December |
| 18:42.06 | dmdavis | brailsmt: working or schooling? |
| 18:42.13 | MdG_work | dmdavis, thanks. |
| 18:42.14 | brailsmt | searching |
| 18:42.21 | MdG_work | brailsmt, I'm in KC as well! |
| 18:42.32 | brailsmt | i am in Blue Springs to be exact |
| 18:42.32 | MdG_work | well... Lenexa KS anyway. |
| 18:42.44 | Jayce^ | MdG_work, sprint? |
| 18:42.49 | MdG_work | Nope, IBM. |
| 18:42.53 | brailsmt | MdG_work: you know of anyone that is hiring? |
| 18:43.04 | Jayce^ | my wife's real dad lived in lenexa until just last year.. |
| 18:43.16 | Jayce^ | used to go there for thanksgiving.. |
| 18:43.26 | Jayce^ | got an old roomate who lives there now too.. |
| 18:43.34 | MdG_work | brailsmt, nope...sorry. |
| 18:43.46 | MdG_work | I just moved here after graduating from the U. |
| 18:44.23 | brailsmt | i am glad to finally be back home, the humidity is nice, no need for lotion to avoid lizard scale skin... |
| 18:44.35 | Jayce^ | MdG_work, lds? single? (got a friend in the lenexa singles ward) |
| 18:44.49 | brailsmt | lol |
| 18:44.54 | brailsmt | welcome to #matchmaker |
| 18:44.55 | Jayce^ | ok, that didn't come out right |
| 18:44.56 | MdG_work | Jayce^, lds yes, single no. We go to church right after the singles though. |
| 18:45.10 | MdG_work | I knew what you mean...just playing whodoyouknow. |
| 18:45.15 | Jayce^ | no, not trying to make a match... just the mormon 'do you know' game |
| 18:45.27 | brailsmt | MdG_work: what stake? |
| 18:45.30 | MdG_work | Lenexa. |
| 18:45.44 | brailsmt | we used to go there for dances :) |
| 18:45.44 | *** join/#utah ruis (~ruis@65-100-214-239.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 18:45.56 | brailsmt | there were only 3 stakes in the KC area then though... :) |
| 18:46.07 | Jayce^ | well MdG_work.. if you ever meet a Jarom Dietz.. say hi :) |
| 18:46.13 | Jayce^ | probably won't though |
| 18:46.14 | brailsmt | there are like what, 3 stakes per SLC city block? |
| 18:46.23 | brailsmt | :) |
| 18:46.46 | MdG_work | I'll keep my eye out for him. There is some bad blood between the singles, and everyone else here. heh. |
| 18:46.47 | Jayce^ | nah, that's just Eagle mountain.. (highest active LDS density in the church) |
| 18:46.52 | Jayce^ | oh really? |
| 18:47.35 | MdG_work | we have a huge parking problem at our building...and the singles always have the 11am schedule. They never rotate because "their members wont come unless it' at 11am" |
| 18:47.40 | brailsmt | the stake center is right next to the (formerly known as) RLDS world HQ |
| 18:47.53 | MdG_work | So...they park eeeevvveerrryyywwwhheerre. Up on the grass...on the stairs..neighbors lawns. |
| 18:48.04 | brailsmt | and their nifty conch shell temple... |
| 18:48.12 | brailsmt | :) |
| 18:48.56 | Jayce^ | ~lart conch shell's |
| 18:48.56 | MdG_work | That community of Christ temple is pretty neat. |
| 18:49.22 | MdG_work | though, it's way smaller inside than you'd think by looking at it. |
| 18:49.49 | brailsmt | it looks huge, i've never been inside it... |
| 18:50.24 | MdG_work | the inner most spot is a meeting hall of sorts, and it is very small, although quite pretty. |
| 18:52.02 | brailsmt | the closest i have ever been to going inside is looking at it from the visitor's center :) |
| 18:52.49 | MdG_work | Mosy over for a tour next time. |
| 18:56.23 | ruis | my brother is on a mission in Independence Mo right now... |
| 18:58.58 | MdG_work | ruis, what's his last name? |
| 18:59.10 | Jayce^ | I bet I know his first name :) |
| 19:00.11 | brailsmt | Elder? :) |
| 19:04.59 | levi | Hrm. How do you get component video out from a PC video card? |
| 19:06.12 | tensai | there are vga to svideo and rca converters available |
| 19:08.18 | dmdavis | later |
| 19:08.20 | *** part/#utah dmdavis (~dmdavis@208.187.232.231) |
| 19:08.30 | levi | I'm talking about component video, not svideo or composite. Like you have on HDTV monitors. |
| 19:09.00 | Ryan1 | many HDTV devices have VGA in. |
| 19:09.29 | tensai | component and composite sound too similar :( |
| 19:09.55 | levi | Many, but not mine. |
| 19:13.10 | Ryan1 | I think you'd need a scan converter, like this: http://www.smarthome.com/7743C.html |
| 19:13.30 | Ryan1 | Of course, smarthome.com's prices are usually pretty bad, you can likely find it somewhere else for cheaper. |
| 19:17.16 | levi | Hmm, yeah, that'd probably work. |
| 19:35.30 | hans | here's a cool java applet |
| 19:35.32 | hans | http://www.pmbrowser.info/citeseer.php?start=herman00graph |
| 19:37.20 | hans | normally I wouldn't say such a thing, but this one really is cool |
| 19:37.25 | hans | and not in a dancing pig way |
| 19:37.32 | Ryan1 | more like a dancing graph |
| 19:37.36 | hans | :) |
| 19:38.19 | Jayce^ | hrmm. must not be liking my jave.. |
| 19:38.26 | Jayce^ | keeps saying it's starting, but sits there |
| 19:38.42 | Jayce^ | or is it a pop-up? |
| 19:39.08 | hans | app |
| 19:39.11 | hans | I have Java(TM) Plug-in 1.4.2-b28 |
| 19:39.25 | hans | should just open in the current window |
| 19:40.29 | Jayce^ | k, runs in mozilla.. but not konq (same plugin though) |
| 19:40.39 | hans | ~lart konq |
| 19:40.42 | Ryan1 | mine ran in konq. |
| 19:40.49 | hans | there's your problem. ;-) |
| 19:40.53 | Jayce^ | must be this debian konq |
| 19:41.00 | Jayce^ | ~lart debian as a desktop :) |
| 19:41.15 | hans | ~lart [kg]bloat |
| 19:42.00 | Jayce^ | wait, you say konq is bloat, but compared to moz?? |
| 19:42.02 | Ryan1 | hehehe |
| 19:42.15 | hans | firebird |
| 19:42.40 | hans | konq isn't necessarily bloat, but it is the other cardinal sin of kde/gnome - redoing everything |
| 19:43.24 | hans | i don't mind redoing something to get it right - but just so it looks pretty and fits your 'style' just seems like a waste. of course people are free to waste their time but I will stick with my collage |
| 19:44.04 | hans | </soapbox> |
| 19:44.11 | Hanuman | ahhh...finally a Linux box at work again... |
| 19:44.20 | Jayce^ | if we stuck to that, we'd all be running minix or sunos :) |
| 19:44.28 | Jayce^ | or freebsd |
| 19:44.29 | Hanuman | I think I'll call this one Kryptonite |
| 19:44.46 | Hanuman | being a firewall/Mail gateway |
| 19:44.48 | hans | that reminds me, earlier I was explaining heredocs to a friend with AIM, and she was extremely confused because her client (but not mine) was stripping at least one of the < in <<EOF |
| 19:45.07 | Jayce^ | hans, yeah, it does that.. trying to render html :) |
| 19:45.24 | hans | so does gaim sometimes, but apparently not always at the same times. :) |
| 19:45.50 | hans | i was thinking to myself "how hard can it be to just type what I send at the command prompt?" |
| 19:48.28 | brailsmt | hans: as hard as the developers make it... |
| 19:48.30 | brailsmt | :) |
| 19:48.38 | levi | Hey, I like my desktop to look pretty and unified. Jumbled messes of different widget themes offend my sensitive aesthetic sensibilities. ;) |
| 19:48.48 | tensai | Hanuman: that seems like good news. will kryptonite be permanent? |
| 19:49.02 | brailsmt | ~lart sensitive aesthetic sensibilities |
| 19:49.10 | hans | levi: i agree, it's nice. but i'm too pragmatic to care in reality |
| 19:49.41 | hans | i'd rather have it working well. not that kde and gnome stuff don't work well, but they often don't work as well as the time tested ugly alternatives |
| 19:49.59 | Hanuman | tensai: well, we'll see - I'm setting it up. Next step is approval from my boss to actually put it in use |
| 19:50.07 | brailsmt | i always say function over form |
| 19:50.21 | levi | Bah, silly pragmatists. Life should look good! Ugly usability is... ugly. Probably less usable than a pretty, unified usable interface, too. |
| 19:50.22 | Hanuman | I think if I can make it not sound too complicated or scary they'll let me do it. |
| 19:50.33 | brailsmt | but MS has trained too many ppl to be form over function types... |
| 19:50.58 | levi | But MS stuff is incredibly ugly! |
| 19:51.08 | hans | ugly, but consistent |
| 19:51.11 | brailsmt | agreed, but most ppl don't know that... |
| 19:51.18 | Ryan1 | consistently ugly, actually. |
| 19:51.31 | brailsmt | oh, it is all that and much more... |
| 19:52.02 | brailsmt | some ppl saw the MS fisher price theme, and thought they had died and gone to heaven... |
| 19:52.09 | levi | Well, the interface looks consistent on the surface, at least. And it probably ends up being more internally consistent than KDE or Gnome is at this point. But it's still lacking. |
| 19:52.36 | brailsmt | i saw the fisher price theme and laughed at how bad it looked... |
| 19:52.44 | Hanuman | tensai: I think if I can just get this thing setup and going it will be very impressive that I was able to take the slowest machine in the office and essentially take over major functions of our Windows PDC |
| 19:52.48 | brailsmt | then there is osx... |
| 19:53.10 | levi | I loved the consistency of Mac OS 9's interface. OS X is a step back consistency-wise, but it's still pretty good and is very pretty. |
| 19:53.18 | Hanuman | mmm...OSX... |
| 19:53.40 | Hanuman | s/doc/dock/ |
| 19:54.09 | levi | I find using my Mac a very aesthetically pleasing experience. If that wasn't important, people wouldn't expend so much effort to theme things in the open source world. |
| 19:55.05 | hans | important. secondary. but you can't leave it out entirely either - I admit I use windowmaker over fvwm partly because fvwm is so darned ugly |
| 19:55.23 | brailsmt | wmaker is darned ugly too |
| 19:55.25 | brailsmt | ;) |
| 19:55.35 | hans | you can kluge a dock in fvwm (the real reason), but it just doesn't look good. |
| 19:55.41 | hans | i love the way wmaker looks. |
| 19:56.19 | Ryan1 | so would you say that the windowcandy of mac is just windowcandy, or does it serve a higher purpose? |
| 19:56.24 | brailsmt | not i, i think the bar over the apps is ugly and too big... |
| 19:56.59 | brailsmt | i always thought that... though i used wmaker for the first 1.5 years of my linux life... |
| 19:57.03 | hans | just the right size. you have to be able to grab the thing for crying out loud. it takes no more space than other wms since ther are no borders around the sides |
| 19:57.16 | hans | it is too thick at low resolutions, true |
| 19:58.15 | brailsmt | i eventually found wmaker's desktops to be restrictive... you can only go to the left or right desktop, no up and down, or diagonal... |
| 19:58.22 | brailsmt | no window pager |
| 19:58.41 | brailsmt | bah, anyway... |
| 19:58.47 | brailsmt | it matters not to me... |
| 19:59.10 | brailsmt | i use waimea... and someday i will get around to designing kahakai the right way... |
| 19:59.18 | brailsmt | then add ruby support... |
| 19:59.24 | brailsmt | kahakai looks nice |
| 20:00.51 | brailsmt | but for now, back to these uberfun cover letters... |
| 20:39.20 | hans | ok, so say I want to delete a subdirectory in CVS. I use cvs rm -Rf subdir |
| 20:39.39 | hans | the files are gone (local and in cvs), but the directory is still there |
| 20:39.59 | hans | I don't want to delete $CVSROOT/module/subdir because I want what's in the attic to stay there |
| 20:40.36 | hans | but I don't want subdir hanging around anymore either. cvs release -d subdir works, until I do a cvs update -d or checkout a new one. anyone know what I can do? am I stuck with the subdir artifact for the rest of eternity? |
| 20:40.47 | tensai | I don't think you can delete it. You can use the -P option to prune empty dirs from your working area. |
| 20:41.27 | hans | ah, -P is good enough I guess. |
| 20:41.44 | hans | so cvs update -dP |
| 20:41.50 | tensai | yup |
| 20:42.07 | tensai | that's one of the reasons I started using subversion |
| 20:42.30 | tensai | it keeps track of directories just like any other file |
| 21:00.02 | brailsmt | last week i was going through my father-in-law's basement and found a first edition of "The C Programming Language" by Kernighan and Ritchie... |
| 21:00.07 | brailsmt | pretty cool |
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| 21:12.04 | brailsmt | cvs makes deleting stuff a PITA |
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| 22:37.19 | bonez39 | any mozilla-thunderbird fans here? I am having some trouble getting mine set up.. |
| 22:43.50 | neybar_work | kmail here. |
| 22:47.00 | HarleyPig | Can anyone tell me how well onDblClick is supported in IE and NS? |
| 22:48.33 | *** join/#utah byron (~byron@tiny.byu.edu) |
| 22:56.08 | HarleyPig | that well supported huh? |
| 22:56.11 | HarleyPig | :] |
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| 23:58.48 | justin__ | bye |