| 00:02.55 | HarleyPig | I am now |
| 00:03.17 | HarleyPig | Dangit ... why does he disappear right after I respond to him!? It must be personal! |
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| 00:41.18 | Tenebram | anyone here played with the freedektop.org XServer? |
| 00:43.22 | emcnabb | hans, you ordered Linux Journal? |
| 00:43.35 | emcnabb | I just took the Novell Survey |
| 00:46.09 | Jayce^ | heh.. |
| 00:48.44 | emcnabb | Jayce^, I forwarded your message to the UUG |
| 00:49.11 | hans | yeah, wife giving it to me for christmas. alas it looks like the first issue will be the march issue |
| 00:50.10 | hans | talked my brother into ditching whatever book they recommended for C++ in 240 and getting TC++PL by stroustrup |
| 00:50.22 | Jayce^ | hans, I got the december issue in my stocking, and thought I was getting a subscription :/ dang.. |
| 00:50.57 | hans | heh |
| 00:55.28 | Hanuman | I keep meaning to order it as well |
| 00:55.49 | Hanuman | I wish TPJ was still regular |
| 00:56.07 | Tenebram | that's interesting... |
| 00:56.31 | Tenebram | if you drop the '2' from the link it directs to the same page. |
| 01:11.07 | Jayce^ | should be a little different |
| 01:11.22 | Tenebram | maybe |
| 01:11.27 | Tenebram | I didn't look too closely |
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| 02:34.35 | sjansen | Sourceforge sure does spend alot of time down for "maintenance". |
| 02:34.54 | Tenebram | yeah, so do you! |
| 02:35.23 | Tenebram | You don't see any of us complaining about your necessary downtime, do you? |
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| 03:04.20 | jakea | he he, I notice Caldera Linux is not an option to have experience with on Novel's survey |
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| 03:11.02 | mhalcrow | Good evening, boys and girls. |
| 03:11.54 | Tenebram | why yes it is |
| 03:14.36 | sjansen | mhalcrow: So what brings you to #utah? |
| 03:14.50 | mhalcrow | Texans scare me. |
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| 03:14.55 | mhalcrow | Hi Evan. |
| 03:15.14 | sjansen | Wanna switch places? |
| 03:15.18 | mhalcrow | See the latest from Slashdot? |
| 03:15.33 | sjansen | I've stopped reading slashdot, now I wait for the email. |
| 03:15.38 | sjansen | Gives me more time in the day. |
| 03:15.43 | Mecworks | ~slashdot |
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| 03:40.06 | emcnabb | mhalcrow, howdy |
| 03:40.16 | mhalcrow | Are we having fun yet? |
| 03:40.24 | emcnabb | always |
| 03:40.40 | emcnabb | back to physics hw |
| 03:40.54 | mhalcrow | I'm in the market for a bluetooth headset for use w/ GnomeMeeting. |
| 03:41.38 | mhalcrow | This one looks nice: |
| 03:41.40 | mhalcrow | http://www.mysimon.com/Orange_Micro_Blue2_headset/4014-6468_8-30537841.html?tag=lst&q= |
| 03:42.43 | mhalcrow | I am on a quest to eliminate my dependence on the phone company. |
| 03:43.34 | sjansen | "Brought to you courtesy of the red, white, and blue." |
| 03:44.07 | mhalcrow | Austin has a great wireless community network. |
| 03:44.41 | mhalcrow | http://www.austinwireless.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi |
| 03:45.49 | mhalcrow | Now I just need to integrate it all into a Zaurus. |
| 03:46.01 | mhalcrow | Complete cell/land-line replacement, community supported. |
| 03:47.44 | mhalcrow | I have forgotten what it's like to have homework. |
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| 04:06.43 | mhalcrow | Types are overrated. |
| 04:08.31 | sjansen | sqlite is nice an all, but postgres isn't overrated |
| 04:08.42 | mhalcrow | Agreed. :-) |
| 04:09.03 | sjansen | stupid php, stupid mysql |
| 04:09.28 | mhalcrow | I heard that PHP has overtaken ASP as the prefered web development language under Windows. |
| 04:09.39 | mhalcrow | Of course, I realize that this may not be saying much... |
| 04:11.50 | sjansen | No, it's not. |
| 04:12.08 | sjansen | Although ASP.Net will probably give it competition. |
| 04:12.26 | mhalcrow | Nevertheless, Ruby will one day rule the world. |
| 04:12.57 | mhalcrow | Whatever succeeds the Linux kernel 15 years down the road will be written in Ruby. |
| 04:13.01 | mhalcrow | Just you wait and see. |
| 04:16.45 | bartw | nothing can succeed the linux kernel. |
| 04:16.50 | bartw | that is its problem. |
| 04:17.46 | mhalcrow | You will have to convince Linus otherwise. :-) |
| 04:17.53 | mhalcrow | Because he begs to differ. |
| 04:18.12 | sjansen | We'll all be running Hurd next year. |
| 04:18.30 | sjansen | SCO will destroy Linux and we'll be Stallman's slaves. |
| 04:18.39 | mhalcrow | Microkernels are overrated. |
| 04:18.49 | bartw | http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/rob/utah2000.pdf |
| 04:18.52 | mhalcrow | Just like types. |
| 04:18.57 | sjansen | We'll discover his rambling about "Freedom" was a lie, he just wanted to be an old-fashioned dictator. |
| 04:21.02 | bartw | you haven't discovered that yet? |
| 04:25.10 | sjansen | Nah, I actually respect Stallman. |
| 04:25.30 | sjansen | He's got a few bad ideas, but we owe him a great debt. |
| 04:26.32 | jakea | sjansen: for a second I thought you were talking about somebody else |
| 04:26.54 | sjansen | Who? |
| 04:26.54 | mhalcrow | My cat? http://halcrow.us/stallman.html |
| 04:28.50 | bartw | I'm all for free software, but Stallman is a crack pot. |
| 04:29.32 | bartw | not much free about GPL'd software. BSD style licenses are a lot better. |
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| 04:35.41 | sjansen | I'm getting tired of arguing with BSD bigots. Nothing personal bartw but you're a moron if you believe that. |
| 04:36.18 | bartw | I've never used BSD. |
| 04:36.29 | sjansen | I'm talking the license. |
| 04:36.31 | bartw | only linux. |
| 04:36.37 | jakea | now now sjansen, remember our troll conversation.... |
| 04:37.24 | sjansen | I'm getting tired of the stupid "The GPL won't let me swing my fist into your face your it's opressing me" argument. |
| 04:37.30 | mhalcrow | Do they still serve hot cocoa on BYU campus? |
| 04:37.43 | sjansen | Yes, they do. |
| 04:38.15 | bartw | I guess that's why there are scores of "free" licenses to choose from. |
| 04:38.19 | bartw | to each his/her own. |
| 04:38.21 | mhalcrow | I actually have a friend who refuses to release his code under any license or copyright. He just makes it public domain. |
| 04:38.30 | bartw | not bad. |
| 04:38.59 | bartw | I guess GPL is OK if you want your code to have those restrictions. |
| 04:39.01 | sjansen | Yes, there are scores of "free" licenses. And the GPL is one of them. |
| 04:39.02 | bartw | I personally wouldn't |
| 04:39.07 | bartw | oops. |
| 04:39.28 | bartw | wouldn't release my code under that license if given a the choice. |
| 04:43.13 | Mecworks | I d/l Maestro the other day. it was very cool but slooooow on my pIII 800. |
| 04:43.27 | Tenebram | Maestro? |
| 04:43.54 | Mecworks | the app to simulate rover control from NASA |
| 04:44.03 | Tenebram | ahh |
| 04:44.04 | Mecworks | java |
| 04:44.34 | Mecworks | java == sloooooow on a pIII 800 when it also trys to do 3d rendering. |
| 04:45.16 | bartw | it's java? in that case I'll cancel and do it at work (since I'm on a pIII 450). |
| 04:49.36 | mhalcrow | G'night |
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| 06:23.22 | Mecworks | bartw: Yea, it's java and comes with it's oiwn JVM with no option to use the system one. |
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| 14:09.40 | Hanuman | Good morning everyone |
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| 14:22.01 | Hanuman | !hot cocoa |
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| 15:10.18 | Hanuman | echo... |
| 15:11.00 | Mecworks | foxtrot... |
| 15:20.48 | Hanuman | golf |
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| 15:33.58 | Hanuman | .... --- - . .-.. |
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| 16:19.10 | Hanuman | Anyone here willing to admit they know of a good irc channel somewhere that I can find info on M$ Access and VBA? (I'm not doing this by choice) |
| 16:20.09 | Hanuman | Don't laugh... |
| 16:20.36 | Tenebram | I've never done work with that, so no, I can't say I know of any good IRC channels for work on that. |
| 16:21.16 | Hanuman | The more I use it the more I hate it and wish I had power to switch to a real program to do what I want it to do |
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| 16:46.45 | Jayce^ | sjansen, you read geoff's reply to you? |
| 16:47.05 | sjansen | Uhm, maybe. Just got into working, digging through mail and news right now. |
| 16:47.27 | sjansen | Yeah, I saw it yesterday. Going to respond some time today. |
| 16:48.26 | Jayce^ | cool.. if you dont' know, geoff is one of the authors of the mod_perl cookbook, so a rather good resource |
| 16:49.51 | Hanuman | I used to be on that list - I ought to resubscribe |
| 16:50.23 | Hanuman | At the time it was too high-traffic for my tastes |
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| 17:05.11 | Jayce^ | find what you need Newsome? |
| 17:13.50 | Newsome | yes, I did! |
| 17:14.15 | Newsome | thanks! |
| 17:14.32 | Hanuman | So you found the offending code? |
| 17:15.10 | Newsome | well, I found the ABI files that were mentioned as offending. |
| 17:15.21 | Newsome | on the SCO UnitedLinux CDs |
| 17:16.11 | Jayce^ | hehehehehehehehe :) |
| 17:16.14 | Jayce^ | => even |
| 17:16.18 | Hanuman | Are they offending? |
| 17:16.25 | Hanuman | Or did they just offend you? |
| 17:16.30 | Hanuman | :) |
| 17:17.05 | Newsome | they certainly don't offend me. They might offend Darl, but it's _his_ company that put them there! |
| 17:17.31 | Newsome | and I find Darl offensive :) |
| 17:18.54 | Hanuman | Who do you think is more offensive? Darl, or Canopy who hired him? |
| 17:20.58 | Newsome | Hmmm. That's a good question. Probably Darl, but Yarro is pretty bad himself, and he's pretty much Canopy. |
| 17:21.55 | Hanuman | okay, who's worse - Yarro or Noorda? |
| 17:23.03 | Newsome | I'm not sure that Noorda is doing much, so probably Yarro |
| 17:24.06 | Hanuman | I'd agree with that - I think Noorda is just concerned about the money at the moment rather than the business |
| 17:24.15 | Jayce^ | no, Noorda has no clue about the company any more.. |
| 17:24.22 | Hanuman | that's what I meant |
| 17:24.39 | Jayce^ | when I was up there last month, noorda's office is a little room on the side, a chair, and a simple desk... empty |
| 17:25.11 | Jayce^ | people described him as a really nice, senile old man... who is kept around because of name, but has no input anymore.. |
| 17:25.21 | bartw | Noorda was extremely pro-Linux back in the day. |
| 17:25.32 | Jayce^ | yarro has the nice corner office, and does everything |
| 17:26.10 | Hanuman | that's what I hear |
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| 17:48.07 | Jayce^ | http://www.linux-live.org/ |
| 17:48.29 | Jayce^ | "Linux Live is a set of bash scripts which allows you to create own LiveCD from every Linux distribution. Just install your favourite distro, remove all unnecessary files (for example man pages and all other files which are not important for you) and then download and run these scripts." |
| 17:48.32 | Jayce^ | now that's pretty nifty |
| 17:51.07 | rhunter | have you tried it out? |
| 17:52.17 | Jayce^ | no, just saw the link on a list |
| 17:53.10 | rhunter | i might need to try it out |
| 17:53.17 | Jayce^ | could definately make a nifty system there |
| 17:53.18 | rhunter | i use knoppix alot at work |
| 17:54.07 | rhunter | and if i can do a custom one that will be killer |
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| 18:23.49 | Tenebram | wow, maple is fun |
| 18:26.49 | jakea | yes, it is |
| 18:26.53 | sjansen | Ick, math. |
| 18:26.59 | jakea | but it's stupid at times |
| 18:27.49 | jakea | I once had an integral that wouldn't reduce cause I had constants inside. I took them out and tried again and it worked. Go Figure |
| 18:28.08 | jakea | course, this was Maple 8, I was told the other day that 9 was wout |
| 18:28.10 | jakea | -w |
| 18:30.01 | Hanuman | what is maple? |
| 18:30.04 | jakea | sjansen: Oh come on, you do all that hacker programming, and your afriad of a little contor integral? ;) |
| 18:30.19 | jakea | it's like Mathematica or... what's that other one.... |
| 18:30.23 | sjansen | Wow, I just checked one of our HP-UX servers. We've got at least 5 different perl installations. |
| 18:30.34 | jakea | it does hard math for you |
| 18:30.47 | jakea | integrals... matrixes.... fun stuff |
| 18:31.03 | sjansen | Perl with base OS, Perl with HP's Apache 2 bundle, Perl with Oracle, Perl with another product, and Perl I'm not sure why it's there. |
| 18:31.22 | jakea | sure, a 3 x 3 matrix is fun in class, but when it comes to 20 x 20, better to just plug it into maple |
| 18:31.53 | sjansen | "a 3 x 3 matrix is fun" - You're looney jakea, completely lost. |
| 18:31.55 | Hanuman | cool - is it available for Mac? |
| 18:32.35 | jakea | I would assume so, it's availabe in Windows and Linux... |
| 18:32.51 | Hanuman | free? |
| 18:32.53 | Jayce^ | sjansen, wow... probably some old 4.x release at that to |
| 18:32.53 | Jayce^ | too |
| 18:33.07 | jakea | no, not free |
| 18:33.17 | Hanuman | darn |
| 18:33.25 | jakea | BYU has a licence, it's probably in Math computer labs |
| 18:33.36 | Hanuman | I think I'll just install an HP 48G emulator on my laptop |
| 18:33.45 | jakea | at least, the had a licence when I installed it on the astro computers over a year ago |
| 18:33.46 | Hanuman | or bring my own |
| 18:34.09 | Hanuman | (HP 48G) |
| 18:34.13 | Jayce^ | gahhh... n00b question on uug... "if I had a page like webmin I could edit a page, but can you do it over the command line?" |
| 18:34.16 | Jayce^ | ewwwww |
| 18:34.32 | jakea | n00b? |
| 18:34.41 | Jayce^ | noob, newbie.. |
| 18:34.51 | Jayce^ | just needs to learn the alter table syntax |
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| 18:43.52 | Jayce^ | from /. |
| 18:43.56 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:44.01 | Jayce^ | well, umm, yeah.. |
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| 18:48.06 | TheIB | I am a unix/BIND newbie. Does anyone know how to check the version of BIND on RedHat Linux version 7? Can it be done without running BIND? With SunOS you can use the following command: strings /usr/sbin/in.named | grep BIND. Thanks |
| 18:48.08 | Jayce^ | brings bad bad memories from a mission experience |
| 18:48.51 | emcnabb | cpan is pretty cool |
| 18:49.04 | sjansen | Jayce^: Ya gonna share? |
| 18:49.07 | Jayce^ | cpan is way cool, but check out cpanplus |
| 18:49.22 | emcnabb | how can I see all the modules I have installed? |
| 18:49.23 | Jayce^ | sjansen, well, I"m sure you remember the average brasilian womens mode of dress |
| 18:49.56 | jakea | Jayce^: we have workers in the US willing to work for minimum wage or lower in the US, and now the government want's to make it legal for them to be here |
| 18:50.17 | Jayce^ | sjansen, especially in the summer.. |
| 18:50.34 | Jayce^ | as in 'the italian job'.. let's just say I had a *bad* experience |
| 18:50.42 | Jayce^ | jakea, true |
| 18:50.50 | tensai | TheIB: rpm -qa |grep bind |
| 18:51.03 | jakea | I think it's a re-election ploy if you ask me... |
| 18:51.11 | sjansen | I personally suspect it will be a good thing in the long run. They're already here, now we can work on improving their conditions. |
| 18:51.47 | jakea | and take jobs from us that are qualified since "The Man" can pay someone willing to work a cheaper wage |
| 18:51.59 | sjansen | It legitimizes a shadow part of the economy, so we can start taxing and regulating. It empowers workers willing to do jobs most Americans won't. |
| 18:52.15 | Jayce^ | emcnabb, cpanplus is better for that stuff... r is somewhat useful here, but not too much.. |
| 18:52.52 | Hanuman | I only agree if it applies equally to all countries and not just Mexico/S. America |
| 18:52.57 | jakea | I have family that got in the coutry the "legal way" and they had to fight like hell to do it |
| 18:53.00 | tensai | sjansen: and encourages more people to immigrate illegally |
| 18:53.00 | sjansen | Let's face it, few illegals are working as programmers and other high payed jobs. Heck, fastfood is good for them. |
| 18:53.13 | Jayce^ | emcnabb, i is your best tool for looking around though |
| 18:53.23 | TheIB | Thanks tensai |
| 18:53.39 | Hanuman | and Bush's plan is to make sure American's have first dibs on those jbos |
| 18:53.46 | sjansen | Most are doing menial and often danger labor. |
| 18:53.51 | Hanuman | man my grammar is terrible |
| 18:53.59 | jakea | for the BYUers.... we are warned about this in the scriptures..... wrong things will become right |
| 18:54.07 | sjansen | heh |
| 18:54.14 | jakea | if we can't fight it, let's just make it legal instead |
| 18:54.46 | jakea | anyway, I better shutup before I lose friends |
| 18:54.58 | Jayce^ | lol |
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| 18:55.21 | sjansen | There's a big difference between fornication/adultery/drug abuse etc, and being willing to take a dis-tasteful job. |
| 18:55.29 | Hanuman | I don't think there's anything to fight - it will still be illegal to not be here legally - it just opens up opportunity where it exists in the US |
| 18:55.40 | Jayce^ | sjansen, I think he means the illegality of those who are going to benefit.. |
| 18:55.56 | Jayce^ | there are legal ways already to go get those jobs, this just makes it ok for those who came over illegaly |
| 18:56.29 | jakea | and makes the jobs those who are honest and got those jobs legally pointless |
| 18:56.43 | jakea | er, I had a thought in there, it got messed |
| 18:56.56 | Hanuman | We do it with our education system - I think it helps the US and those countries to put money into those countries where these people come from because there are jobs available here. |
| 18:57.04 | Jayce^ | if I lived in a border state, I'd probably be one of those with my paintball gear having fun at nights on the border |
| 18:57.07 | jakea | the work those people who were honest in coming here did is now rendered pointless |
| 18:58.14 | sjansen | Much of my (our) profession is being eaten away by India. None the less, I have a hard time complaining. |
| 18:58.14 | jakea | and it tells people coming into the US that if you do it illegally, eventually it will be legal, so don't even try doing the right thing |
| 18:58.14 | sjansen | I favor largely open borders. |
| 18:58.15 | Bradipo | I have noticed a lot more posts from Indian users on the mailing lists that I'm on. |
| 18:58.19 | HarleyPig | sjansen: But it's moving back here, at least as far as vetting the code ... |
| 18:58.19 | sjansen | It's my responsiblity to compete, not my govt. to protect me from competition. |
| 18:58.32 | hans | sjansen: amen |
| 18:58.38 | Bradipo | I don't mind competition if it is fair competition. |
| 18:58.39 | Jayce^ | I favor open borders for visitation, etc.. for work, you need to follow the proper channels |
| 18:58.48 | jakea | it's not fair competition |
| 18:58.52 | Hanuman | I favor closed borders, but methods to allow people in legally, which is essentially what Bush has proposed |
| 18:59.05 | hans | what's not fair about it? if I go work in wyoming no wyomingites claim that's unfair |
| 18:59.32 | sjansen | The only thing is, if you haven't paid into the system you'd better not expect anything out of it. |
| 18:59.34 | hans | now government benefits I see. not citizens, etc. |
| 18:59.42 | hans | but work... |
| 18:59.43 | jakea | my wife was laid off from her job, out of three people, she was more qualified and had more experience. They laid her off cause she, who was more qualified that the other two, cost the company more |
| 18:59.47 | sjansen | Short of education and other benefits that help society in the long run. |
| 18:59.48 | Hanuman | what Bush is proposing isn't to let illegals come in and get jobs, but to get them in legally and send them home after a period of time |
| 19:00.02 | Bradipo | hans: you are there legally. |
| 19:00.18 | sjansen | But the legality is an artificial limitation. |
| 19:00.22 | jakea | cause they paid her mor per hour |
| 19:00.25 | hans | Bradipo: right, see sjansen's comment |
| 19:00.40 | jakea | so she worked to become competative, and go hosed |
| 19:00.43 | Bradipo | Yeah, I saw that. |
| 19:00.44 | jakea | +t |
| 19:00.50 | hans | jakea: not an easy issue, as we all know |
| 19:00.52 | bonez39 | Bradipo: know any where here, to talk with legal types, attorneys? any online legal resources? |
| 19:00.53 | sjansen | In some (oppressive) governments even moving between cities is illegal. |
| 19:00.56 | hans | but I don't see its relevance |
| 19:01.18 | jakea | sjansen: Bush is sending the US in that direction |
| 19:01.25 | tensai | sjansen: there's actually a lot of animosity in Oregon and Washington regarding Californians |
| 19:01.28 | Jayce^ | bonez39, *here* being IRC? or utah? |
| 19:01.30 | *** join/#utah byron (~byron@tiny.byu.edu) |
| 19:01.45 | Hanuman | The fact is we are going to have more control over the illegals now because more of them will be going through a process to get those jobs, rather than working undocumented and out of the govt's vision |
| 19:01.46 | bonez39 | Jayce^: "here" being IRC, or online in general... |
| 19:01.50 | *** join/#utah habi1 (~steve@164.58.59.40) |
| 19:01.53 | hans | oh we had californian animosity in new mexico too. all those silly people with lots of money making our cost of living skyrocket |
| 19:01.56 | sjansen | There's alot of resentment agains californians everywhere. |
| 19:02.01 | Jayce^ | tensai, no kidding, I remember when the big move to WA started, made a huge difference up there.. |
| 19:02.50 | hans | the job market is just that, a market |
| 19:02.59 | *** part/#utah habi1 (~steve@164.58.59.40) |
| 19:03.02 | sjansen | Far as I'm concerned, the problem was not letting your wife work for a wage she was willing to accept. |
| 19:03.06 | tensai | sjansen: good point :) |
| 19:03.15 | Hanuman | There will now be fewer illegals because of Bush's plan, and a regulated system of allowing who comes into the country |
| 19:03.27 | sjansen | Let an over-educated person work for a lower wage. If they're not willing to take a cut, it's their problem. |
| 19:03.51 | synic | wow, it's Thursday. |
| 19:03.53 | synic | when did that happen? |
| 19:03.56 | hans | exactly. although I understand the problem with some employers having a stigma against overqualified applicants |
| 19:03.57 | jakea | they didn't give her the option to take a cut |
| 19:03.58 | HarleyPig | sjansen: No one will hire an over-educated person. |
| 19:04.00 | Hanuman | What I don't like is companies that don't offer paycuts to employees before laying them off |
| 19:04.16 | jakea | but ya, I guess since she worked hard at her job, it's all her fault |
| 19:04.23 | sjansen | And that because employees won't let them. |
| 19:04.25 | Jayce^ | problem is, especially locally, any education becomes over educated.. |
| 19:04.27 | hans | jakea: ooh, victim |
| 19:04.34 | sjansen | Unions have done good, but they've also shot themselves in the foot. |
| 19:04.39 | Jayce^ | it's not cost effective to go to school, so why go.. |
| 19:04.39 | Hanuman | hans: I agree with that - I couldn't get one job I applied for when I was laid off because I was over-qualified |
| 19:04.43 | sjansen | You can't distort a market without repurcussions. |
| 19:04.58 | hans | that's not a problem with competition, that's a psychological problem |
| 19:05.03 | Jayce^ | sjansen, amen about unions.. they had a place, now cause more trouble than most anything.. |
| 19:05.32 | Hanuman | amen also |
| 19:05.32 | sjansen | Esp. in Brazil. |
| 19:05.32 | jakea | unions are good in theory, but like everything, it becomes corupt |
| 19:05.52 | sjansen | They should be more focused on improving the general condition and less focused on keeping cushy govt. positions. |
| 19:06.03 | hans | any attempt to control the market is usually a bad thing |
| 19:06.08 | bonez39 | I'm with you Hans...let the market decide.....free and open. |
| 19:06.10 | hans | always backfires |
| 19:06.12 | Hanuman | I was against Bush's plan until I actually sat down last night and listened to his proposal in it's entirety - it's actually pretty well thought-out |
| 19:06.54 | Jayce^ | there are several good points to it, but some I'm still not comfortable with |
| 19:07.03 | synic | have you guys seen beep-media-player yet? |
| 19:07.06 | hans | i admit I haven't looked at his plan yet, so I'll keep quiet on that one |
| 19:07.19 | Hanuman | synic: don't you change the subject ;-) |
| 19:07.37 | Jayce^ | synic, nope |
| 19:07.45 | synic | http://valhalla.dydns.com/bmp.tar.bz2 |
| 19:07.47 | tensai | I feel like I'm chatting on NPR |
| 19:07.51 | synic | it's a gtk2 port of xmms |
| 19:08.50 | hans | or bbc |
| 19:08.55 | tensai | I switched from xmms to Rhythmbox (thanks to sjansen) and haven't looked back |
| 19:10.20 | HarleyPig | ? What are the differences? |
| 19:10.47 | Hanuman | xmms is very limited IMO |
| 19:10.55 | synic | oh, sorry, wrong permissions. I changed them... if you actually tried to download bmp |
| 19:11.13 | bonez39 | Hanuman: I downloaded some songs with gtk-gnutella...I can't find them now |
| 19:11.14 | HarleyPig | vim `egrep -ri SELECT * | grep -i dealers | cut -d':' -f 1 | sort | uniq | egrep -v -E '\.(txt|1|bak)$'` |
| 19:11.15 | tensai | rhythmbox is a jukebox, not just a player. docks into the panel. you can sort by artist, genre, etc. |
| 19:11.20 | HarleyPig | damnit |
| 19:11.35 | Jayce^ | what? |
| 19:12.00 | HarleyPig | Hanuman: How is xmms limited with respect to rythmbox? |
| 19:12.01 | Jayce^ | bonez39, check the config, it'll have a default directory |
| 19:12.07 | HarleyPig | Jayce^: I pasted wrong window again. |
| 19:12.22 | hans | ~sing to HarleyPig |
| 19:12.32 | hans | ~sing |
| 19:12.34 | | "Night fever, night fever. You know how to do it!" |
| 19:12.40 | HarleyPig | :> |
| 19:12.52 | Hanuman | HarleyPig: see tensai's comment |
| 19:13.19 | bonez39 | Jayce^: the config...I have looked for that...where would it be? I find nothing in the /home/name/.gtk-gnutella directory....I have looked through most of the files in there |
| 19:13.33 | bonez39 | Jayce^: I'l;l take another look |
| 19:13.42 | HarleyPig | The only thing xmms can't do is sort by artist, genre,etc. And that's available as a plugin. |
| 19:13.53 | HarleyPig | From that list anyway. |
| 19:14.00 | tensai | HarleyPig: it manages multiple playlists and can create automatic playlists |
| 19:14.05 | Hanuman | HarleyPig: can it rip? |
| 19:14.10 | Hanuman | or burn to CD? |
| 19:14.14 | tensai | it keeps track of how many times the song has played and you can assign it a ranking |
| 19:14.52 | HarleyPig | xmms can manage multiple playlists, what do you mean by auto playlists? Hanuman: there are plugins to rip. |
| 19:14.54 | HarleyPig | and burn |
| 19:15.24 | HarleyPig | I'm not defending xmms ... I'm just curious why you think rb is better than xmms. |
| 19:15.24 | hans | i've always wanted to toy with (or write) something (plugin for xmms or separate app) that learns what music you like (perhaps by mood or task) and generates adaptive on-the-fly playlists |
| 19:15.46 | tensai | scans your music and adds files to a playlist based on criteria you specify |
| 19:16.07 | bonez39 | Jayce^: finally found it.....thanks.. |
| 19:16.24 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, xmms can rip. (to wav :)) |
| 19:16.32 | tensai | hans: I used one once named route66. it's designed as a car mp3 player. |
| 19:16.46 | HarleyPig | tensai: Ah ... you can tell xmms to load a directory, but you can't give it specifications (regex?). |
| 19:17.03 | Hanuman | HarleyPig: I didn't realize those plugins were available - what I haven't liked about XMMS is that all of that doesn't come in one package - you have to download a whole bunch of packages to have it do everything in one solution |
| 19:17.06 | HarleyPig | hans: I think something called Fly (?) does that. |
| 19:17.11 | tensai | HarleyPig: right |
| 19:17.28 | tensai | I'm not a rhythmbox bigot. It just works better for how I listen than xmms. |
| 19:17.33 | Hanuman | not to mention you have to find everything you want |
| 19:17.52 | Hanuman | I've actually never used rythmbox - those are just my pet-peeves w/ XMMS |
| 19:17.59 | HarleyPig | I'm not getting that impression tensai :) ... I just hadn't considered anything other than xmms. |
| 19:18.11 | Hanuman | from what I've heard rythmbox comes close to my tastes, though |
| 19:18.14 | HarleyPig | Hanuman: True. And compiling the plugins can be a real pita. |
| 19:18.29 | tensai | rhythmbox started as an iTunes clone |
| 19:18.32 | Hanuman | yeah - that has also been my problem |
| 19:18.39 | emcnabb | HarleyPig, I like the ssh client on your website |
| 19:18.43 | hans | Hanuman: you describe the plugin vs. monolithic dilemna |
| 19:18.49 | emcnabb | it might be cool to have in the cs department |
| 19:19.11 | Hanuman | The best all-in-one solution I've used isn't even available for Linux, but used to be |
| 19:19.16 | HarleyPig | emcnabb: It's an os package ... I don't remember if I provide a link for it or not ... do you want a link? |
| 19:19.34 | emcnabb | that would be great |
| 19:19.35 | hans | what I really despise is when plugins depend on othe rplugins |
| 19:19.37 | Hanuman | hans: exactly - it all depends on your taste |
| 19:19.37 | HarleyPig | It's still in development but I've found it useful. |
| 19:20.04 | tensai | I've also don't like the skinnable player paradigm. Most of the skins I see are completely unusable. I end up getting one that looks like everything else, so what's the point? |
| 19:20.20 | tensai | everything else == all my other apps |
| 19:20.22 | Hanuman | all of them look comparitively similar, too |
| 19:20.31 | bonez39 | if I have some music files, with long names..and they download with name.mp3.OK ... 1) how do I get them to just download straight, with the "OK" and 2) what's the quickest way to rename them, without having to type the whole file name in? |
| 19:20.42 | Hanuman | I haven't liked the look of any of the XMMS skins yet |
| 19:21.09 | HarleyPig | emcnabb: Link is on bottom right: http://www.sshtools.com |
| 19:21.54 | Jayce^ | bonez39, is that something in your gnutella config, where it moves completed files (might add it on there?? ) and idea maybe.. |
| 19:22.17 | emcnabb | HarleyPig, thanks! |
| 19:23.44 | HarleyPig | welcome |
| 19:24.07 | Hanuman | Anyone know of a place I can get foreign keyboards on the web? |
| 19:24.25 | Hanuman | esp. Thai keyboards |
| 19:24.41 | Hanuman | I had stickers, but they've all been worn out |
| 19:26.57 | bonez39 | Jayce^: any suggestions about file renaming? |
| 19:27.14 | *** join/#utah tewkxchat (~tewk@12.174.36.194) |
| 19:34.59 | tensai | bonez39: ls |perl -lanF\\. -e 'if ($F[$#F] =~ /OK/){ $file = join("", @F[0..($#F-1)]); system "mv $_ $file";}' |
| 19:37.50 | bonez39 | tensai: wow..that simplies my task immensely.........thanks..... |
| 19:38.10 | bonez39 | not sure whether to type that in, or to send it to the FBI...for analysis.....please advise..;) |
| 19:38.40 | Jayce^ | lol |
| 19:39.01 | Jayce^ | tensai, show off :) I was just trying to look and see if gtk-gnutella was adding it |
| 19:39.17 | sjansen | http://etudiant.epita.fr/~tallon_a/101.html -- somebody wasn't thinking |
| 19:39.22 | bonez39 | tensai: but seriously...what do most of you use....to change file names..and othe file maintenace chores? |
| 19:39.33 | sjansen | Command line. |
| 19:39.48 | Hanuman | man - missed another perl question |
| 19:39.57 | Hanuman | bonez39: perl |
| 19:40.03 | Hanuman | and commandline |
| 19:40.13 | sjansen | I personally use mostly pure bash. Others like perl -e. Others like ruby. It's really worth it to learn at least one. |
| 19:40.44 | Hanuman | I like a combination of what does the job fastest |
| 19:41.03 | byron | I wasn't aware of any tools other than the command line for file management :) |
| 19:41.06 | bonez39 | perl? I just want to change long file names..to something shorter...how is learning and running perl script faster for me....a perl-ignorant user? |
| 19:41.10 | HarleyPig | don't go to the index for that page at work! |
| 19:41.33 | bonez39 | byron: I wasn't restricting my query to command line...I don't mind if it's gui... |
| 19:42.19 | sjansen | bonez39: It's a along term investment. The more sys. adminning you find yourself doing the more worth it is. If you're only doing it rarely, just asking on IRC willing give you better ROI. |
| 19:43.31 | byron | bonez39: learning bash well will make file management much easier than a gui ever could. Friendly things like for loops and variable interpolation. |
| 19:43.57 | sjansen | And regular expressions and pattern substitution. |
| 19:43.58 | bonez39 | byron: ah, I have yet much to learn... |
| 19:44.13 | sjansen | Not to mention filtering. |
| 19:44.19 | bonez39 | sjansen: what constitutes "business speak"? |
| 19:44.34 | byron | I really like altering variables with ${var/pattern/replace} |
| 19:44.35 | Jayce^ | well, there is a great chance to learn RE's coming up this month :) |
| 19:44.39 | Hanuman | bonez39: using ROI in any sentence |
| 19:44.42 | neybar_work | ROI, long term investment etc |
| 19:44.47 | bonez39 | ah... |
| 19:45.52 | byron | speaking of RE's, what on earth does (?=pattern) do? |
| 19:46.18 | sjansen | Geeks are generally more comfortable thinking about TCP not TCO. People who use TCP in their conversations can usually be trusted. People who use TCO are usually on something. |
| 19:47.14 | byron | sjansen: plus, TCO is only one letter away from SCO. No wonder they aren't trusted |
| 19:47.16 | bonez39 | or they are tech industry pundits..or columnists..right? |
| 19:47.28 | Jayce^ | byron, lookahead assertion |
| 19:47.46 | Jayce^ | looks ahead in the string to see if what follows matches.. |
| 19:47.59 | Jayce^ | if so, success, but *don't advance the cursor* |
| 19:48.06 | Jayce^ | that's the difference |
| 19:48.14 | tensai | so we need a bayesian filtering system for speech that measures the business speakness of a person |
| 19:48.17 | byron | Jayce^: thanks! |
| 19:56.38 | hans | c is beautiful |
| 19:57.14 | sjansen | tensai: It exists. A study was done and unsurprisingly they discovered an inverse relationship between marketing speak (almost the same thing) and profitability. |
| 19:57.46 | HarleyPig | The higher the market speak, the more they made? |
| 19:57.47 | sjansen | Most likely, the less you have to hide the fewer words it takes to do it. |
| 19:58.14 | sjansen | HarleyPig: Inverse. The higher the marketing speak the lower the profitability. |
| 19:59.19 | HarleyPig | Hmmm ... seems to me the people who can sling the most without the slinged upon realizing it are the ones who made the most money. |
| 20:00.03 | sjansen | So next time your employer touts the fact that they "Lever core competencies to provide...." |
| 20:00.16 | sjansen | (Who'm I kidding, I can't complete that sentence.) |
| 20:00.29 | HarleyPig | Or: "We run our business according to strict Mormon standards..." |
| 20:01.02 | Jayce^ | HarleyPig, oh yeah, run when you hear that one |
| 20:01.06 | sjansen | HarleyPig: Stock price and soaking investors has little to do with actual end of quarter return on investment. |
| 20:01.47 | HarleyPig | True ... but I don't think I've ever known upper management to realize that. |
| 20:01.52 | sjansen | As in profit after expense is subtracted from gross. |
| 20:01.57 | HarleyPig | Maybe I've just worked at the wrong companies. |
| 20:03.15 | Hanuman | companies don't care about whether you know those terms or not - it's whether you know what they mean and how to implement them that brings a company money |
| 20:04.23 | sjansen | Yeah, but I'm afraid that if I let too much business speak into my vocubulary I'll alienate all my friends and warp my brain. ;-) |
| 20:05.09 | Hanuman | sjansen: I'll still be your friend ;-) |
| 20:08.30 | hans | I didn't know Mormon had business standards. |
| 20:08.46 | hans | thought he was a historian and military man |
| 20:10.27 | HarleyPig | :D |
| 20:12.09 | hans | o/~ ain't that a kick in the head |
| 20:21.07 | sjansen | Well, his no-nonsense kill or be killed attitude probably does translate well into business. |
| 20:21.08 | sjansen | Although it's combination with strong ethics would probably freak a few people out. |
| 20:21.08 | hans | lol |
| 20:21.10 | HarleyPig | sjansen: I don't have a problem with that ... it's the people who think paying your employees as little as possible while charging your customers as much as possible AND spending as little as possible on materials who think that is mormon standards that bug me. |
| 20:21.10 | bonez39 | wearing a beard? would BillG...be looking like Santa Claus? |
| 20:21.10 | hans | er, corner |
| 20:21.11 | Hanuman | I just run from any company that mentions they are based on any religion unless it is the LDS church |
| 20:21.11 | Hanuman | meaning the company is owned by the LDS church |
| 20:21.11 | sjansen | Yikes, I just found out we've got a dept. named "Creative Marketing". For some reason that scares me. |
| 20:21.11 | Hanuman | That would be a fun occupation |
| 20:21.12 | Hanuman | I guess when I say LDS church I mean any company owned by any religion is okay - any company professing they are based on a certain religion's standards, mentioning that as a primary focus is a different thing |
| 20:21.12 | Hanuman | I've found most of those companies have too many excuses based on those standards for why they do the things they do |
| 20:21.19 | Hanuman | Jayce^: I remember when Beck told me to be more like Brigham Young when I was complaining I wasn't making enough |
| 20:23.16 | hans | yeah, about as fun as being a professional dental patient |
| 20:32.48 | Hanuman | Maybe in 10 years I'll go for my MBA if it's necessary - I love business |
| 20:37.05 | Jayce^ | yeah, but if you get your MBA, you still are expected to work for minimum wage or less, or your just overqualified.. |
| 20:37.54 | hans | ~sing |
| 20:37.56 | | ACTION sings loudly |
| 20:39.33 | Hanuman | The thing people haven't realized is that a degree gets you nothing in this country (relatively speaking) - you still have to work your way to the top whether you have the degree or not |
| 20:40.03 | Hanuman | Jayce^ started it... |
| 20:40.08 | Hanuman | :) |
| 20:40.14 | HarleyPig | No, not having a degree prevents you from getting to the top. Having a degree doesn't guaruntee it. |
| 20:40.33 | Hanuman | HarleyPig: not necessarily, especially when it comes to graduate degrees |
| 20:40.49 | Hanuman | My brother-in-law beats out Harvard MBA's all the time in the jobs he's had |
| 20:41.02 | HarleyPig | Maybe in smaller companies. |
| 20:41.03 | Hanuman | he has no MBA - just an Accounting degree from BYU |
| 20:41.31 | HarleyPig | Well, he's an exception to the rule then (the rule being my experience. :) |
| 20:41.38 | Hanuman | He's worked for Monitor and Sorenson capital - I don't consider either too small |
| 20:41.44 | Hanuman | especially Monitor |
| 20:42.32 | Hanuman | degrees put your resume on top in HR - once you get past HR the degree doesn't necessarily mean anything |
| 20:43.27 | HarleyPig | For our profession, true for the most part. But I don't see that happening much in other professions. |
| 20:43.43 | Hanuman | There's no doubt degrees can help, but they are not what bring you to the top - your experience, knowledge and abilities are what put a person to the top in America |
| 20:43.57 | Hanuman | in any profession |
| 20:44.07 | HarleyPig | Ok. |
| 20:44.11 | HarleyPig | :] |
| 20:44.22 | Hanuman | My boss, the marketing director for the company has a degree in Art History |
| 20:44.33 | *** join/#utah the-donn (wtf@strider.ut.sco.com) |
| 20:44.42 | Hanuman | but yes, we are probably considered a small company |
| 20:45.11 | Hanuman | the-donn: like your e-mail address |
| 20:45.26 | HarleyPig | :D apropos |
| 20:45.50 | the-donn | just don't try emailing me there :) |
| 20:45.57 | HarleyPig | wtf ... strider ... sco ... all *ring* true somehow. |
| 20:46.07 | Hanuman | lol |
| 20:46.30 | Hanuman | HarleyPig: note that I'm currently in school, so take what I say w/ a grain of salt :) |
| 20:47.00 | HarleyPig | :] |
| 20:47.36 | the-donn | who was it in here that made high-gain antennas for WAPs? |
| 20:48.18 | the-donn | I need a little signal boost... |
| 20:48.19 | Hanuman | I made my own 2 meter antennae for Ham Radio once |
| 20:48.27 | Hanuman | w/ a pvc pipe |
| 20:48.29 | Jayce^ | :p |
| 20:48.43 | the-donn | mmmm...pringles... |
| 20:48.53 | Hanuman | they didn't know about pringles back then |
| 20:49.07 | Jayce^ | you trying to built a directional, or omni anteannea? |
| 20:49.11 | the-donn | omni |
| 20:49.17 | the-donn | for my complex |
| 20:49.25 | Hanuman | close the pringles can then ;-) |
| 20:49.44 | Hanuman | you could make a nice dipole antennae |
| 20:50.14 | Jayce^ | yeah, pringles sure wouldnt' make a good omni |
| 20:50.15 | the-donn | do you have to have a certain WAP or can you slap an ext antenna on anything? |
| 20:50.43 | Jayce^ | the-donn, some are built to allow you to swap it out.. mine can, (a netgear). I know a lot of linksys do.. |
| 20:51.03 | Jayce^ | basiclly if you can unscrew it, then you can get a piece and attach it to any powered or unpowered external |
| 20:51.15 | the-donn | i have a netgear 802.11g POS and a Linksys WRT54G - should be able to make it work |
| 20:51.23 | Hanuman | the-donn: you probably need one that has connectors - once you have a connector to hook up to coax, there are formulas you can use to create different antennaes for different frequencies |
| 20:51.47 | Hanuman | Linksys should work - never used the netgear |
| 20:51.50 | the-donn | ok - good to know. I think I have an old Intel WAP around that had the coax connections |
| 20:52.24 | the-donn | Ivyhall will be wireless yet! |
| 20:52.46 | levi | Apparently, the cablemodem was just connected at my new apartment. Woo. |
| 20:53.00 | hans | levi: merry Christmas! |
| 20:53.22 | levi | I had to resort to Playstation last night, since I had no internet. |
| 20:53.31 | levi | Things were dire, I tell you. |
| 20:53.48 | Hanuman | they finally opened up port 80! |
| 20:54.04 | levi | It wasn't open before? |
| 20:54.11 | levi | Mine was open at my last place. |
| 20:54.33 | Jayce^ | depends on where you are |
| 20:56.43 | Hanuman | mine wasn't 6 mos ago here in VA |
| 20:56.43 | levi | The Comcast lady told me they were planning on doubling speeds in my area in the next couple of months. |
| 20:56.43 | Hanuman | it is now |
| 20:56.43 | Hanuman | I think they just did that in our area |
| 20:56.43 | Hanuman | I hate their Customer Support, though |
| 20:56.43 | Hanuman | luckily, they don't require as much customer support as other companies I've been with |
| 20:56.43 | levi | What don't you like about their customer support? |
| 20:56.43 | Hanuman | the-donn: you can always get a ramsey-kit: |
| 20:56.44 | Hanuman | http://www.ramseykits.com/catalog/pdf/2002-106.pdf |
| 20:56.44 | Hanuman | levi: they want off the phone as quick as possible, and will try to get you to do things that don't need to be done like uninstalling stuff, etc |
| 20:56.44 | the-donn | Hanuman: wow - not that expensive |
| 20:56.46 | Hanuman | and don't ever mention Linux or they run away |
| 20:56.54 | Hanuman | or Mac OSX Panther |
| 20:57.28 | Hanuman | the-donn: yeah, but you'll have great signal-strength |
| 20:57.45 | Hanuman | Just try getting into Ham-radio - it's a VERY expensive hobby |
| 20:58.31 | levi | Well, the sales support lady was nice and helpful. Never had need of any tech support. |
| 20:59.26 | Hanuman | I just tried the "do-it-yourself" install and that took me about 2 hours on the phone until I finally rebooted into Linux and got it to work |
| 21:00.17 | Hanuman | First of all, the kits they sell at Best Buy don't work, and secondly, noone there knows how to do a self-install w/o the software in the kit |
| 21:00.49 | Hanuman | After some prying they started me through a web interface that took 2 hours to get working |
| 21:01.03 | Hanuman | (we could only get it to work in Mozilla Firebird on Linux) |
| 21:01.26 | Hanuman | that was the short version... |
| 21:05.33 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (~sanchiro@64.122.114.148) |
| 21:10.28 | Hanuman | the-donn: here's a good article on antennaes (although directed towards Ham Radio operators): |
| 21:10.31 | Hanuman | http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/9507077.pdf |
| 21:10.43 | Hanuman | looks like you want either a j-pole or a coaxial-collinear antennae |
| 21:12.09 | the-donn | Hanuman: thanks for the reading material. |
| 21:14.33 | Hanuman | Here's a good j-pole howto - you will want to get some antennae books from the ARRL on how to determine antennae sizes for a particular frequency, though - this one I imagine is directed towards the 2 meter band, which IS NOT what WAP uses |
| 21:14.39 | Hanuman | http://www.n7qvc.com/amateur_radio/copper.html |
| 21:18.31 | Hanuman | Here's a collinear one just for WAP: |
| 21:18.32 | Hanuman | http://www.guerrilla.net/reference/antennas/2ghz_collinear_omni_lowpwr/ |
| 21:20.08 | Hanuman | Antennaes 101: |
| 21:20.09 | Hanuman | http://www.lns.com/papers/BAWUG-antenna101/ |
| 21:20.16 | Hanuman | s/Antennaes/Antennas/ |
| 21:20.25 | Hanuman | ~spell Antennas |
| 21:20.27 | | 'Antennas' may be spelled correctly |
| 21:21.47 | Hanuman | Here's where I'm getting all that: |
| 21:21.50 | Hanuman | http://www.itee.uq.edu.au/~mesh/faq.html#7.4 |
| 21:22.56 | Hanuman | I'm done now... |
| 21:23.29 | Tenebram | hehe, that was cool. |
| 21:24.55 | Hanuman | They are probably the cheapest part of ham radio |
| 21:25.17 | Tenebram | and themost expensive part? |
| 21:25.27 | Jayce^ | the radio itself |
| 21:25.47 | Tenebram | and themost exciting part? |
| 21:25.50 | Tenebram | Gah... |
| 21:25.55 | Tenebram | Same mistake twice. |
| 21:26.46 | Hanuman | the transmitter |
| 21:26.54 | Hanuman | or tranceiver |
| 21:27.13 | Tenebram | what about the smallest part? |
| 21:27.26 | Hanuman | the chips inside the tranceivers |
| 21:27.41 | Tenebram | most painful part? |
| 21:27.48 | Hanuman | the microwave dishes |
| 21:28.07 | Tenebram | shiniest part? |
| 21:28.17 | Hanuman | the yagi antennas |
| 21:28.34 | Tenebram | most confusing part? |
| 21:28.51 | Hanuman | morse code |
| 21:29.06 | Hanuman | at 20wpm |
| 21:29.06 | Tenebram | the first part? |
| 21:29.30 | Hanuman | hmmm...the chicken? or was it the egg? |
| 21:30.06 | Tenebram | well, the embryo is formed before the shell forms around it... |
| 21:30.40 | Hanuman | so it was the chicken! I knew it! |
| 21:31.00 | Tenebram | well of course! |
| 21:31.04 | Jayce^ | now, who knows what part of the egg forms the chicken? |
| 21:31.24 | Tenebram | what kind of stupid nerd would know the parts of an egg? |
| 21:31.28 | Tenebram | Oh, sorry Jayce... |
| 21:31.31 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 21:31.33 | Tenebram | I didn't realize you were in here... |
| 21:31.55 | Jayce^ | family work :( |
| 21:31.55 | Tenebram | Ohh, fun1 |
| 21:31.59 | Tenebram | Gah... |
| 21:35.37 | Hanuman | Tenebram: that's alright - fun was already taken |
| 21:35.54 | Tenebram | in this scope? |
| 21:36.55 | Jayce^ | anybody here play paintball (looking for more players for a game this weekend) |
| 21:39.38 | tensai | Jayce^: so which part forms the chicken? |
| 21:39.53 | Tenebram | I never really got into it, Jayce. |
| 21:41.19 | Jayce^ | the white |
| 21:41.29 | Jayce^ | the yolk is the food |
| 21:41.50 | Tenebram | There are more than just two parts, aren't there? |
| 21:42.25 | hans | Tenebram: there's also the shell |
| 21:42.28 | hans | it holds stuff in |
| 21:42.39 | tensai | so what's the thick white goober you sometimes see? |
| 21:42.41 | Tenebram | YOU hold stuff in, hans! |
| 21:43.58 | Hanuman | did you know if you put an egg in vinegar it de-calcifies and becomes soft? |
| 21:44.10 | Tenebram | I did. |
| 21:44.20 | Jayce^ | there is the air bubble.. |
| 21:44.38 | Hanuman | what about the dead chicken? |
| 21:44.40 | Jayce^ | Tenebram, that is the undeveloped part.. think of it as a placenta.. :) |
| 21:44.45 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, I've seen it.. |
| 21:45.08 | Hanuman | I learned that from Nickelodean |
| 21:45.30 | tensai | Jayce^: you've just spoiled egss for me |
| 21:45.37 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 21:46.03 | tensai | they're too high in cholesterol anyway |
| 21:46.15 | Jayce^ | tensai, I could make it worse, and describe the life of an idustrial chicken (the ones you get your eggs from).. |
| 21:46.30 | Jayce^ | tensai, actually not really, although the normal store ones have some |
| 21:46.53 | Jayce^ | free range is very healthy |
| 21:47.44 | tensai | 180mg per egg is high |
| 21:48.08 | Jayce^ | depends on where you get your egg, most arent' that high.. |
| 21:48.15 | Hanuman | I like the brown, Thai eggs |
| 21:48.15 | Jayce^ | but free range is very low |
| 21:48.37 | Hanuman | that probably came from a chicken down the street |
| 21:48.37 | Jayce^ | brown is just dependant on the type of chicken.. |
| 21:48.41 | Tenebram | So, Jayce, What do you think of how industrial chickens are treated? |
| 21:48.48 | Jayce^ | we had mostly brown egg layers.. usually larger.. |
| 21:49.06 | Jayce^ | although we had some types of chickens that had red, blue, and green eggs.. |
| 21:49.12 | Hanuman | Jayce^: do they sometimes bleach the eggs to make them white? |
| 21:49.47 | Jayce^ | Tenebram, a cage, not much larger than their body, beaks are cut off to discourage pecking, and they just have a food and water trough in front of them |
| 21:50.03 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, no |
| 21:50.22 | Hanuman | just wondering - I know they die tomatoes red |
| 21:50.32 | Tenebram | Ooh, talk about what the bottom of the cagfe does to their feet. |
| 21:50.59 | Jayce^ | they don't die tomates.. they expose them to a vitamin/gas that enourages them to change. |
| 21:50.59 | Jayce^ | dye |
| 21:51.03 | Bradipo | Produce in America sucks. |
| 21:51.15 | Hanuman | Bradipo: wait till you see it in other countries |
| 21:51.15 | Bradipo | The best fruits and vegetables I had when I was in Italy. |
| 21:51.21 | Bradipo | I've been in other countries. |
| 21:51.32 | the-donn | Bradipo: it's even worse in Italy (so I hear) |
| 21:51.35 | Hanuman | I saw them beat a pig to death with a baseball bat in Thailand |
| 21:51.38 | Bradipo | Tomatoes, oranges, bananas, etc... were all better in Italy. |
| 21:51.47 | Bradipo | They are all farmers there so you get it fresh. |
| 21:52.00 | Hanuman | fruits are always better in other countries (I see what you're saying now) |
| 21:52.00 | Bradipo | I haven't had a good juicy orange in 8 years. |
| 21:52.04 | Jayce^ | but I dont' like the pre-ripe, altered produce |
| 21:52.15 | Bradipo | They are all dried and/or overripe. |
| 21:52.28 | Hanuman | although nothing beats an American Apple |
| 21:52.30 | Bradipo | We pick them early so they can get the most profit out of them rather than letting them mature properly. |
| 21:52.40 | Hanuman | they were terrible in Thailand |
| 21:52.41 | Jayce^ | nothing beats a Washington apple.. |
| 21:52.45 | Hanuman | so were Oranges |
| 21:52.45 | Bradipo | American apples aren't much better unless they are grown locally. |
| 21:52.57 | Jayce^ | the ones you get even in Utah have nothing on local washington ones |
| 21:53.07 | hans | you will come to see that there is much unexpected in #utah |
| 21:53.13 | Hanuman | the-donn: wait until we talk politics |
| 21:53.31 | hans | like ruby vs perl |
| 21:53.33 | Hanuman | or BBQ |
| 21:53.35 | Bradipo | Tomatoes really suck here. |
| 21:53.40 | the-donn | well i'm assuming you're mostly Utahns so there's not much to discuss - just a bunch of conservative republicans right :) |
| 21:53.46 | Hanuman | or how Texas is better than Utah |
| 21:53.47 | Bradipo | Well, the kind of tomatoes required for good pasta anyway. :-) |
| 21:53.53 | Bradipo | Some tomatoes aren't bad. |
| 21:53.58 | Bradipo | Like the kind you put on sandwiches. |
| 21:54.16 | Bradipo | But it is next to impossible to find good plum tomatoes. |
| 21:54.38 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, tomatoes are bad because they are picked green, so they can ship ok, then gassed so they *turn* red, but don't actually ripen |
| 21:54.40 | neybar_work | no kidding |
| 21:54.44 | Hanuman | mmm...tomatoe, peanut-butter and mayonaise sandwiches |
| 21:54.46 | Bradipo | Yep, same with Oranges. |
| 21:54.47 | Jayce^ | you need to shop at a farmers market to get decent produce |
| 21:54.56 | neybar_work | eww |
| 21:54.57 | Bradipo | Hmm, I think I'll start doing that. |
| 21:55.21 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, watch 'good eats' on food network, he'll show you the tricks on all this stuff |
| 21:55.25 | Bradipo | I'll be growing my own next year, that's for certain. |
| 21:55.45 | Jayce^ | yeah, finally have my garden space this year, get to grow mine too |
| 21:55.50 | Bradipo | Cool. |
| 21:56.00 | neybar_work | me three, but probably not this year... my yard is kinda thrashed |
| 21:56.01 | Bradipo | Make sure you grow some fresh basil too. |
| 21:56.02 | Hanuman | I love making gardens |
| 21:56.03 | Jayce^ | still, the soil type isnt' good for certain things, that's just a given.. |
| 21:56.10 | Bradipo | I have a hundred basil seeds if you want some. |
| 21:56.10 | tensai | I love Good Eats |
| 21:56.12 | Bradipo | They are genovese. |
| 21:56.14 | Jayce^ | onions out here won't be as good as a more sandy soil.. |
| 21:56.23 | Jayce^ | Alton Brown is the mans chef :) |
| 21:56.36 | Bradipo | Make a sandy spot in your garden for onions. |
| 21:57.00 | Hanuman | Bradipo: really - I didn't know that trick |
| 21:57.05 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, yes, but the sand isnt' as good, you'll get a higher sulfur content.. which is still ok, but not as good.. |
| 21:57.27 | Bradipo | Jayce^: Well, it has to be possible, this is America right? :-) |
| 21:57.37 | Jayce^ | lol.. |
| 21:57.55 | Jayce^ | oh yeah, drove by a garlic farm coming back from christmas.. man I wanted to stay there |
| 21:58.24 | the-donn | Jayce^ you need to visit the Gilroy garlic festival one of these years... |
| 21:58.30 | Hanuman | garlic makes great thai food |
| 21:58.38 | Hanuman | if you could just grow fish sauce |
| 21:58.41 | hans | i have good hot new mexico hatch chile |
| 21:58.45 | Hanuman | and oyster sauce |
| 21:58.46 | hans | if anyone needs seeds |
| 21:59.15 | Bradipo | I'm looking for some good peperoncino seeds. |
| 21:59.39 | Jayce^ | the-donn, that's where neybar_work is from :) hence my comment |
| 21:59.56 | Jayce^ | hans, I'll take some.. I love pepper gardens |
| 21:59.57 | neybar_work | mmm garlic icecream |
| 22:00.07 | the-donn | Jayce^ a-ha it all makes sense now... |
| 22:00.07 | hans | remind me next time we're due to see eachother |
| 22:00.38 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (~sanchiro@64.122.114.148) |
| 22:00.44 | Jayce^ | hans, next wednesday |
| 22:01.01 | neybar_work | hans: I would love some hatch chile seeds. Too bad I don't have the right soil form them to taste the same |
| 22:01.27 | hans | neybar_work: no, not the same soil, but my mom grew some out in vernal last summer and they were still delicious (and hot!) |
| 22:01.39 | neybar_work | cool |
| 22:02.07 | Jayce^ | neybar_work, you tried it didnt' you? |
| 22:02.23 | neybar_work | no, you've talked about it though |
| 22:02.38 | Jayce^ | last year I had some decent anaheims, jalapeno, and a couple others.. |
| 22:02.42 | Jayce^ | mmm.. |
| 22:03.03 | Jayce^ | k, next time you come over (saturday still on?) I'll let you try some |
| 22:03.04 | the-donn | too bad we're turning our family garden into BYU housing this year.. |
| 22:03.15 | neybar_work | jalapeno is about my limit. I like hot, but I like flavor more. I'm not into the Insanity sauce et al |
| 22:04.05 | Bradipo | I have Dave's Insanity Sauce. |
| 22:04.07 | Jayce^ | I like flavor, but that's why I like habanero.. it has some of the best flavor.. you just use a whole lot less :) |
| 22:04.09 | Bradipo | But it isn't even the hottest either. |
| 22:04.16 | Bradipo | The hottest is Caldera Sauce. |
| 22:04.17 | Hanuman | nothing like a good Thai chili pepper |
| 22:04.18 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, they have a couple levels of that stuff.. |
| 22:04.26 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 22:04.35 | tensai | Bradipo: isn't that SCO Sauce now? |
| 22:04.36 | Hanuman | habaneros are 1 step hotter, though |
| 22:04.36 | Bradipo | I have the 250,000 scoville unit level. |
| 22:04.47 | Bradipo | Yeah, they stole our secrete recipe. |
| 22:04.55 | Hanuman | lol |
| 22:04.57 | tensai | :) |
| 22:05.04 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 22:05.16 | Bradipo | http://hotsauce.com/product.php?id=103&FUNK_SESSION=a23185e319953143550259a8bb069d98 |
| 22:05.22 | Hanuman | well, time to head home... |
| 22:05.22 | the-donn | how do you secrete hot sauce? |
| 22:05.37 | the-donn | now that would hurt |
| 22:05.38 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, I was in kansas city a coupel years ago, and they open up a store there during the christmas buying season.. they let you sample everything... drinks are a buck |
| 22:05.46 | Jayce^ | ouch |
| 22:06.51 | the-donn | any MVHS alum in here? |
| 22:07.27 | bbeattie | anyone know what's newer, amavis-ng or amavis-new ? :) |
| 22:07.30 | Bradipo | http://www.sweatnspice.com/Top%20Sauces.htm |
| 22:07.31 | HarleyPig | ? I thought MVHS weren't smart enough to get online! |
| 22:07.33 | HarleyPig | :> |
| 22:07.40 | Bradipo | Look at where Dave's Insanity Sauce is in that line up. |
| 22:07.50 | Bradipo | If you've ever had Dave's you can only imagine how hot some of the others are. |
| 22:08.07 | the-donn | HarleyPig sounds like we might be rivals :) |
| 22:08.09 | Bradipo | And if you haven't had Dave's we need to get together so you can taste some of my Dave's Sauce. :-) |
| 22:08.55 | the-donn | and besides - once I got that AOL CD in the mail - getting online was a snap! |
| 22:10.08 | HarleyPig | the-donn: OHS Go tigers! |
| 22:10.21 | HarleyPig | the-donn: :D |
| 22:10.38 | the-donn | HarleyPig: i'm sure our girls x-country team beat yours so there (not much of a claim to fame - but whatever) |
| 22:10.48 | HarleyPig | I'm not sure which is worse ... the email address or the isp! |
| 22:11.26 | the-donn | heh... |
| 22:11.29 | HarleyPig | Actually, when I was in HS MV was just starting out ... I seem to remember we pretty much beat y'all in everything ... :] |
| 22:11.33 | Jayce^ | that da'bomb stuff is dang hot.. I've had that |
| 22:12.07 | HarleyPig | I voted for South Orem High School, but Mountain View won out. Dangit. |
| 22:12.09 | the-donn | HarleyPig: then you must be older than me - so there :) |
| 22:12.12 | HarleyPig | :D |
| 22:12.29 | HarleyPig | Or was it West? I don't remember. |
| 22:12.35 | the-donn | west makes more sense |
| 22:12.37 | HarleyPig | it was one of those two. |
| 22:12.42 | HarleyPig | Yeah. |
| 22:13.27 | HarleyPig | They kept changing the boundaries while I was in jr high ... my best friend kept changing sides. |
| 22:13.47 | Tenebram | and you trusted him? |
| 22:13.51 | Tenebram | What a traitor! |
| 22:14.05 | HarleyPig | When they finally settled he ended up being right on the boundary. |
| 22:14.06 | HarleyPig | :D |
| 22:14.27 | HarleyPig | Well, he didn't ... but which school he was going to. |
| 22:14.39 | hans | ~lart curbs |
| 22:17.35 | hans | spend another $400 to fix this pile of junk car, or spring for a new one? |
| 22:17.53 | Tenebram | steal a new one. |
| 22:17.59 | Tenebram | Cheaper, and you end up with a better car. |
| 22:18.08 | hans | i know, we'll get a new honda shadow and some nice warm leather clothing |
| 22:18.28 | hans | if only I could convince my wife of that |
| 22:19.17 | Jayce^ | crap, built my first 2.6, but get an error cause it's trying to load root as ext2, not xfs |
| 22:21.35 | hans | Jayce^: haven't you learned to check that your root filesystem is compiled in yet? |
| 22:21.46 | Jayce^ | yes, I made sure it was |
| 22:22.34 | hans | hmm. that's odd. never used xfs |
| 22:23.06 | sjansen | Jayce^ just has to have the large file optimizations for /boot |
| 22:23.14 | Tenebram | Maybe you have the special no-2.6 version of xfs. |
| 22:27.13 | Jayce^ | ahh, forgot, wrong box.. it's a reiser root, and reiser was a module |
| 22:27.34 | Tenebram | hehe |
| 22:28.14 | hans | Jayce^ is getting old :) |
| 22:28.25 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 22:28.33 | hans | http://powersports.honda.com/images/model/c028_029_030_031_photos_all/motorcycles/2004/Shadow_Aero/LargeHoriz/Aero_large_05.jpg |
| 22:28.38 | Jayce^ | this box used to have an xfs root, for a long time |
| 22:29.13 | Jayce^ | my cousin has that honda with the 1800 engine on it.. thing is huge |
| 22:32.32 | bonez39 | how do I set my machine's IP address.....? so that it does not change? I have a DHCP router/mode...and currently it's assigned 10.0.0.10..I want to set up port forwarding on 22....for remote access... |
| 22:33.12 | Jayce^ | bonez39, on your router, you can tell it the mac address of your computer, and to allways give that MAC the specific IP |
| 22:33.24 | sjansen | Motorcycles are accidents waiting to happen. |
| 22:33.37 | Jayce^ | usually a dhcp server will try and keep a box at the same IP anyways though |
| 22:34.01 | Jayce^ | sjansen, so are cars, planes, and C coders.... bikes just leave better smears on the road |
| 22:34.11 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 22:34.30 | hans | ~highfive Jayce^ |
| 22:34.35 | sjansen | In an accident, I want steel and crumple zones around me. |
| 22:34.49 | Jayce^ | thanks hans :) |
| 22:34.55 | hans | helmets and leather |
| 22:35.04 | sjansen | I still remember my branch president's son. I didn't leave the house for week thanks to a couple broken legs and a broken arm. |
| 22:35.05 | Jayce^ | sjansen, some people just like brain buckets... go out in style |
| 22:35.52 | bonez39 | hans: do those changes in /etc/network/interfaces take effect upon rebooting, or running inetd, or when ? |
| 22:36.01 | hans | bonez39: ifdown eth0; ifup eth0 |
| 22:36.15 | hans | there's responsible cycling, and then there's bullet-bike idiots |
| 22:36.45 | bonez39 | hans: ok, so I change dhcp to 'static' and add the line 'address 10.0.0.10' right, in that file? |
| 22:36.59 | Jayce^ | then there's HarleyPig :) |
| 22:37.00 | hans | cycling is dangerous, like rock climbing, river rafting, skydiving, freeway driving, and walking out your front door |
| 22:37.48 | hans | judging by my performance in flightgear so far, I'd be much more liable to kill myself in a plane (crumple zones or no) than on a motorcycle. (which I do know how to ride) |
| 22:38.00 | sjansen | But people are less likely to drive on sidewalks and more likely to not notice a bike. Bikes in traffic are moving targets. |
| 22:38.00 | hans | bonez39: yes |
| 22:38.28 | Jayce^ | sjansen, you must not have been paying attention in brasil.. |
| 22:38.35 | Jayce^ | actually, I've seen that here in provo |
| 22:39.33 | hans | are you hinting that being a pedestrian is safer than being on a motorcycle? i should beg to differ, in the case of utah peds. (of course it's their own fault; they're idiots) |
| 22:39.55 | hans | just try to drive down 800n without hitting someone if you want to see what I mean |
| 22:48.31 | HarleyPig | :D |
| 22:49.42 | Tenebram | Or drive down 800n and try to hit as many people as you can. |
| 22:49.48 | Tenebram | that's much more entertaining. |
| 22:50.12 | HarleyPig | No, it'd be like god mode ... |
| 22:50.18 | HarleyPig | well, that could be fun too. |
| 22:50.34 | Tenebram | hehe |
| 23:12.53 | levi | Hah. Apparently the cable modem installer took 2 hours to figure out how to make the cable modem software work on my Mac. |
| 23:19.37 | HarleyPig | Wonder what he would've done with a linux box. :> |
| 23:20.21 | levi | Probably given up. |
| 23:20.39 | levi | I dunno what the install process is, but apparently they have to do some configuration to the modem. |
| 23:22.27 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@dsl.dyn.01-75.budget.net) |
| 23:22.43 | HarleyPig | OMG: http://script-central.com/products.php?script=MLM%20Dream |
| 23:22.57 | HarleyPig | Only $200 to be a pyramid online! |
| 23:23.31 | HarleyPig | And it's in perl (wail) |
| 23:27.30 | sjansen | How can anyone advertise that? |
| 23:29.16 | Bradipo | Why would anyone want to be a Mailing List Manager. |
| 23:35.17 | Hanuman | sweet! this campus has wireless access (I'm in class right now) |
| 23:35.30 | Tenebram | Yay! |
| 23:44.21 | Hanuman | sweet - open notes exams in this class |
| 23:48.21 | tensai | Hanuman: does that include your computer? |
| 23:51.54 | Hanuman | I just asked - he said yes |
| 23:52.11 | Hanuman | it's precalc, so notes don't always do a ton |
| 23:52.28 | Hanuman | I don't know if they know there's a wireless router nearby |
| 23:52.39 | Tenebram | they do if "notes" = "mathematics packages" |
| 23:54.06 | Hanuman | yeah - I wonder if this guy knows what's possible w/ a computer |
| 23:54.25 | Tenebram | I was playing with maple for the first time today. |
| 23:54.50 | Hanuman | It sounds cool - I'll need to check it out |
| 23:57.50 | tensai | Hanuman: ask if it's okay to play games if the lecture gets boring |
| 23:58.54 | sjansen | Anyone know if there's a way to make apache listen to a unix domain socket? |
