| 00:05.12 | *** join/#utah Tenebram (~tene@128.187.242.41) |
| 00:05.43 | Tenebram | quit poof |
| 00:05.46 | Tenebram | gah... |
| 00:05.54 | *** join/#utah Tenebram (~tene@128.187.242.41) |
| 00:06.01 | Jayce^ | poof? :) |
| 00:06.07 | Tenebram | maybe |
| 00:12.11 | Tenebram | What's wrong with "poof"? |
| 00:13.21 | HarleyPig | Tenebram: A 'poofter' is ... not a good thing. :> |
| 00:13.34 | HarleyPig | Well, depends on yer pov I guess. |
| 00:13.37 | Jayce^ | naaaooo poofda's (however you want to say it) :) |
| 00:13.45 | Tenebram | what? |
| 00:14.02 | Jayce^ | sorry, from a monty python sketch.. |
| 00:14.10 | Tenebram | no, not really |
| 00:14.13 | Jayce^ | dont' even remember what one..... |
| 00:14.36 | HarleyPig | Turn in yer geek card Tenebram! |
| 00:14.58 | Tenebram | I can't becacause of [geeky reason] |
| 00:15.20 | HarleyPig | Oh, c'mon. You can do better'n that! |
| 00:15.28 | Tenebram | um... |
| 00:15.52 | Tenebram | HarleyPig: your tag isn't closed! |
| 00:15.57 | HarleyPig | :D |
| 00:16.12 | Jayce^ | lol |
| 00:51.00 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 01:17.18 | *** join/#utah mzq (~anonymous@67.107.199.254.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 01:36.24 | *** join/#utah byron (~byron@dsc02-wei-ut-205-187-215-11.rasserver.net) |
| 01:58.27 | *** join/#utah mhalcrow (~mhalcrow@adsl-66-143-167-109.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) |
| 01:59.02 | mhalcrow | Hanuman: I'm still ostracized. |
| 01:59.17 | Tenebram | ostracized? |
| 01:59.52 | mhalcrow | 1. (Gr. Antiq.) To exile by ostracism; to banish by a popular |
| 01:59.52 | mhalcrow | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:00.49 | mhalcrow | :-) |
| 02:00.51 | Tenebram | Ostracized from what society or organization, mhalcrow? |
| 02:01.08 | mhalcrow | ldsoss-committee mailing list |
| 02:01.24 | Tenebram | Why? |
| 02:01.41 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@dsl233.sisna.com) |
| 02:01.50 | mhalcrow | I unsubscribed, and I can't seem to get resubscribed. |
| 02:01.58 | mhalcrow | It's really quite a drab story. |
| 02:02.10 | Tenebram | You could make up a more interesting one. |
| 02:02.18 | Tenebram | Abot how you offended the entire community. |
| 02:06.26 | Hanuman | mhalcrow: have you tried sending to committee-subscribe@ldsoss.org? |
| 02:09.11 | mhalcrow | Just did. |
| 02:09.16 | Hanuman | nm - you're listed as being subscribed - are you sending with a return address of ldsoss-list@halcrow.us? |
| 02:09.26 | mhalcrow | Yup. |
| 02:09.33 | Hanuman | hmmm...just a sec |
| 02:11.16 | Hanuman | interesting - you're listed as having all the same permissions as the others in the admin interface of mailman |
| 02:11.41 | mhalcrow | Oh. Maybe there hasn't been any activity on the list today? |
| 02:12.15 | mhalcrow | The ``List-Id'' header is wrong. |
| 02:12.28 | Hanuman | I did get one request to accept a send from your mike@halcrow.us address today |
| 02:12.42 | mhalcrow | That was a mistake. |
| 02:13.17 | Hanuman | yeah - there hasn't been any activity today |
| 02:13.43 | mhalcrow | Looks like it's working. n/m. :-) |
| 02:13.44 | Hanuman | I'm showing you as subscribed, though so you should be able to start getting e-mails |
| 02:15.26 | mhalcrow | My wife just told me that I'm not the boss. |
| 02:15.31 | mhalcrow | :-/ |
| 02:19.00 | *** join/#utah bigdog (~bigdog@65-100-201-52.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:19.21 | Tenebram | interesting... |
| 02:20.23 | Tenebram | 19:10 < FireFox31> <GameTime> <Tene[loom]> 19:08 < GameTime> <Bill> [21:08] <squeakymewmew> <SI_Coma> [18:08] <Tene[loom]> 19:07 < Bill> [21:08] <Dhraakellian> -its |
| 02:25.42 | Jayce^ | heh.. mysql no longer releases gpl binaries for sco :) |
| 02:26.03 | Tenebram | hehe |
| 02:27.13 | Jayce^ | they'll built a commercially licensed one if you really want to pay.. |
| 02:28.51 | Hanuman | That's a great move - those that buy sco are prepared to pay anyway, so why not charge for it? |
| 02:30.10 | Jayce^ | and even better, it shows their opinion of sco.. |
| 02:30.33 | Jayce^ | heck, they make gpl binaries for windows... which is great.. |
| 02:30.42 | Jayce^ | and they make it for less used systems.. |
| 02:31.00 | Jayce^ | but now they say either sco is worse than microsoft, or less used than everything else they support |
| 02:31.49 | *** join/#utah mzq (~anonymous@67.107.199.254.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 02:48.21 | *** join/#utah AJ_IzzyCom_Netwo (~none@63-255-178-227.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 02:51.58 | *** join/#utah byron (~byron@dsc02-wei-ut-205-187-215-190.rasserver.net) |
| 02:52.18 | *** join/#utah brailsmt_ (~michael@pcp03487133pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net) |
| 03:10.26 | *** join/#utah torriem (~torriem@c-67-164-203-109.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:37.09 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@ts46-01-qdr2863.gpass.or.charter.com) |
| 03:41.23 | tensai | here some funny output from slashdot |
| 03:41.29 | tensai | $dbh = DBI->connect("DBI:mysql:lg2",'lg2','Mh4gTgasd') or die "Unable to connect to contact Database:" |
| 03:41.56 | bigdog | its php code... |
| 03:42.18 | tensai | no, it's Perl. it was supposed to be executed rather than printed. hee, hee |
| 03:42.35 | bigdog | oh yeah...lol... |
| 03:43.03 | Jayce^ | wow, when did you get that? |
| 03:43.04 | bigdog | was that from a page u where viewing |
| 03:43.24 | Jayce^ | actually, that really shouldn't even be possible in slashdot, that cant' be right.. |
| 03:43.27 | tensai | just now. I did a refresh and it's gone. It was the LinuxGames slashbox. That's the lg2. |
| 03:43.33 | Jayce^ | they use DBIx, pasword |
| 03:43.46 | tensai | I was really surprised. thought you would be too |
| 03:44.03 | bigdog | yeah usually you dont see that on their pages... |
| 03:44.13 | bigdog | sometimes i have seen it in rss feeds |
| 03:44.18 | Jayce^ | well, that's the interesting thing.. that cant' be from /. code, that must be from the linuxgames site itelf |
| 03:44.23 | bigdog | with php not perl |
| 03:44.24 | tensai | the rest of the page loaded fine |
| 03:44.28 | Jayce^ | exactly, in the lg rss, which is what the slashbox uses |
| 03:44.53 | tensai | ah, yeah. that makes sense. I figured /. was sucking the RSS into a database. |
| 03:44.56 | Jayce^ | the /. code doesn't use a dbi connect statement like that.. |
| 03:45.20 | Jayce^ | they suck it down, render it into a page, and store that in the db, and a cached html page |
| 03:46.26 | tensai | on the lg site there's a cryptic message about unplanned downtime. that must be it. |
| 03:47.07 | bigdog | question: has anyone ever done error logging for enterprise java? |
| 03:48.08 | tensai | yes |
| 03:49.25 | bigdog | i am looking at having a minimum of 8000 concurrent users and maybe you can through some ideas out? |
| 03:51.29 | tensai | what does the application do? what information do you need to log? how do you need it stored and presented? |
| 03:51.56 | bigdog | error logging...we are using log4j and i am wondering if syslog can handle it |
| 03:52.40 | bigdog | this will be a cluster and i am thinking of setting up a couple of syslog servers to handle all the error message |
| 03:53.38 | tensai | I'm not much of a syslog guru. I've heard complaints about dropped messages but I've never seen any myself. It's UDP so there's no guarantee of reliablity. |
| 03:54.04 | tensai | personally I think it ought to work but I'd set up a test environment first |
| 03:54.11 | bigdog | yeah...is there anything else that can handle this type of workload that you have used? |
| 03:54.37 | bigdog | yeah we are working to set up a test environment |
| 03:55.36 | tensai | all the enterprise apps I've used have had pathetic logging. Either none or a self maintained log file with no rotation :( |
| 03:55.55 | tensai | that's no fun to debug |
| 03:56.22 | tensai | I like log4j though, the limited experience I've had with it |
| 03:56.23 | bigdog | exactly...i might have to write some type of parser for it too...no fun there |
| 03:56.26 | Jayce^ | I like logging to a db.. proper schema makes traking things *real* easy |
| 03:57.04 | bigdog | we did go that route first however, with the database the jdbc was getting slow |
| 03:57.12 | bigdog | we could not batch it up |
| 03:57.57 | bigdog | i thought about doing a jms queue and that has some issues with dropping messages too |
| 03:58.26 | bigdog | has anyone ever done hierarchal syslog'in before |
| 03:58.29 | bigdog | ? |
| 03:59.05 | tensai | not I |
| 03:59.29 | tensai | I'm curious about your original db setup |
| 04:00.15 | tensai | it reminded me of an app I saw that *did* do really good logging. It used JDBC and handled a really heavy load. |
| 04:00.20 | Tenebram | Someone just asked me for a comparison of apt and portage. I have no experience at all with apt. Thoughts? |
| 04:00.40 | bigdog | just a really simple schema logging(timestamp, machine, thread, level, message) |
| 04:02.01 | mhalcrow | Real men don't need SQL. |
| 04:02.06 | bigdog | we would have one database taking connections (errors) from all nodes in the cluster...i think there is a better way with the database, however, i am not sure about the cost |
| 04:02.07 | mhalcrow | Going to bed. Night :-) |
| 04:04.28 | bigdog | Tenebram: i know apt is similar to the debian pkg however, i have never used apt |
| 04:04.51 | bigdog | Tenebram: i do like to use ximian red-carpet though |
| 04:04.57 | Tenebram | maybe I should ask in #gentoo to get some unbiased opinions. |
| 04:07.21 | tensai | what were the symptoms when jdbc got slow? what was the database? |
| 04:08.00 | bigdog | the application runs slower, huge performance decrease -- oracle9i |
| 04:08.59 | bigdog | with portage you really have the ability to customize to your specific needs and wants |
| 04:09.26 | tensai | why does the application generate so many errors? |
| 04:10.30 | bigdog | its more debugging information |
| 04:10.52 | bigdog | but we need to track before and after the actual exceptions |
| 04:11.36 | *** join/#utah spr5 (~spr5@auth11-2.ycell.octelecom.net) |
| 04:28.23 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@128.187.251.67) |
| 04:34.56 | *** join/#utah byron (~byron@dsc02-wei-ut-205-187-220-101.rasserver.net) |
| 05:00.09 | *** join/#utah synic|home (~synic@65-100-210-193.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 05:04.13 | *** join/#utah Tenebram (~tene@128.187.242.41) |
| 05:17.52 | brailsmt_ | someone at SCO is SCOmoking SCOrack... |
| 05:17.56 | brailsmt_ | </old news> |
| 05:57.51 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@sorenson.dsl.csolutions.net) |
| 06:20.35 | Bradipo | Hello |
| 06:20.41 | Tenebram | Hello |
| 06:20.43 | Bradipo | I seem to recall some discussion about decent CRMs for *nix but I don't recall what they were now. |
| 06:20.55 | Bradipo | One was used by a local company. |
| 06:22.01 | Bradipo | Some company that makes targets or something. |
| 06:27.12 | Bradipo | I remember partly now... |
| 06:27.15 | Bradipo | It was actiontarget.com |
| 06:27.27 | Bradipo | Now, if only I could remember what CRM they were recommending or using. |
| 06:42.30 | *** join/#utah wolfepakt (~wolfe@dsc01-wei-ut-205-186-88-6.rasserver.net) |
| 06:43.06 | *** part/#utah wolfepakt (~wolfe@dsc01-wei-ut-205-186-88-6.rasserver.net) |
| 06:44.10 | tensai | Bradipo: http://www.wyatterp.com/ |
| 07:13.01 | Bradipo | Hmm, that looks like it. |
| 07:14.10 | Bradipo | Looks like that is just a library that provides an API to develop CRM systems. |
| 07:21.03 | tensai | wylib is an app, but wyatterp is an app |
| 07:21.14 | tensai | er, wylib is a library |
| 07:22.19 | tensai | I think it's designed to be customized though |
| 07:28.58 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 07:29.03 | Bradipo | Looks pretty decent. |
| 07:29.11 | Bradipo | And I like the fact that it's Tcl/Tk :-) |
| 07:33.08 | tensai | I'm actually writing a CRM/ERP system right now using j2ee. There's been talk about open sourcing it which would be way cool. |
| 07:33.54 | tensai | my boss wasn't satisfied with anything he could find, so I got nominated to create one |
| 07:49.17 | *** part/#utah torriem (~torriem@c-67-164-203-109.client.comcast.net) |
| 09:34.06 | *** join/#utah bartw (bart@192.41.88.101) |
| 12:33.49 | *** join/#utah synic|home (~synic@65-100-210-193.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 13:50.52 | bonez39 | welcome synic |
| 14:05.11 | Hanuman | good morning |
| 14:13.42 | Hanuman | I am so glad Comcast finally decided to open up port 80 |
| 14:46.50 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@128.187.243.4) |
| 15:30.24 | Hanuman | isn't globalservers owned by About (who owns freeservers, operated out of Orem)? |
| 15:30.28 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 15:30.47 | Hanuman | ie where Dan Hanks works |
| 15:33.42 | Hanuman | looks like it - they've got some cool ads on /. |
| 15:47.26 | *** join/#utah Tenebram (~tene@128.187.242.41) |
| 15:48.31 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@byu147158wks.byu.edu) |
| 15:55.39 | *** join/#utah tomeast (~teastmond@63-253-57-90.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 16:11.00 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@dsl.dyn.01-75.budget.net) |
| 16:16.47 | Hanuman | I've had quite a few get through lately - I think I'm going to have to switch to an external bayesian filter |
| 16:17.24 | Jayce^ | these three were almost identical, except for a small amount of gibberish... training bayes on them.. with it's points, it should put it over my threshold |
| 16:20.30 | Hanuman | I probably ought to up my sensitivity for bayes a bit higher |
| 16:21.31 | *** join/#utah decriptor ([ESrme5otp@c-67-169-250-162.client.comcast.net) |
| 16:24.17 | tensai | I got a money laundering scam from congo today. Looks like I'll be rolling in money soon. I'll invite you all to the beachhouse for a party. |
| 16:25.42 | Jayce^ | sweeet |
| 16:25.46 | Hanuman | tensai: I should send you the money laundering scam I got proclaiming that the guy is a firm Christian and wanted my money because I was "of the faith" |
| 16:26.24 | Hanuman | well, he didn't want my money - he wanted my account number so he could "send me his inheritance" |
| 16:26.42 | Hanuman | so, basically, he wanted my money |
| 16:28.57 | Bradipo | I haven't received spam in at least a month. |
| 16:30.06 | Hanuman | Bradipo: you feel like writing a document on your anti-spam techniques so we can try it too? |
| 16:30.37 | Bradipo | Sure. |
| 16:30.43 | Bradipo | Requires that you control your MTA. :-) |
| 16:32.19 | Hanuman | I do - both at home and at work |
| 16:32.33 | Hanuman | What MTA do you use? |
| 16:33.39 | Jayce^ | yeah, I was really surprised when those ones got through today... just barely under the bar |
| 16:36.11 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@asterix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 16:36.51 | Bradipo | I use qmail |
| 16:37.15 | Bradipo | Yeah, I've had a few that pass through bmf. |
| 16:37.24 | Bradipo | But that's because I don't get enough spam to properly train bmf. |
| 16:37.36 | Hanuman | cool - I keep meaning to try qmail - I'm a die-hard sendmail user for the moment |
| 16:37.40 | Bradipo | Hanuman: I've been using greylisting and it is very effective at the moment. |
| 16:37.57 | Hanuman | Bradipo: yeah - you were telling me about that - it sounds very interesting |
| 16:37.59 | Bradipo | It could lose part of it's efficiency if spammers start to use real mail servers. |
| 16:38.22 | Bradipo | I've set it up at work too... |
| 16:38.32 | Bradipo | Here are some statistics from it: |
| 16:38.39 | Hanuman | have you wrote your own programs for it, or are you using a pre-written package? |
| 16:38.51 | Hanuman | s/wrote/written |
| 16:39.08 | Bradipo | I wrote it myself (based off of someone else's algorithms). |
| 16:39.16 | Bradipo | It's in Tcl. |
| 16:39.38 | Hanuman | cool - I'd love to see it sometime |
| 16:39.43 | Bradipo | Since enabling it we have 3766857 records. |
| 16:41.33 | Hanuman | sweet |
| 16:41.41 | Bradipo | Only 28334 of those have ever been delivered to their final destinations. |
| 16:42.00 | Bradipo | Now, it's not enabled company wide. |
| 16:42.15 | Bradipo | I only enable it if people complain about getting a lot. |
| 16:42.28 | Bradipo | One guy was getting like 4000 spam per week. |
| 16:42.34 | Bradipo | This pretty much eliminated it for him. |
| 16:43.04 | Bradipo | I have only run into one problem using this technique... |
| 16:43.14 | Bradipo | Novell GroupWise servers. |
| 16:43.17 | Bradipo | They are broken. |
| 16:43.28 | Bradipo | With respect to RFC 821. |
| 16:44.06 | Bradipo | Or 2821. |
| 16:44.12 | tensai | their IMAP compliance isn't so hot either |
| 16:44.25 | Bradipo | Well, at least that's a client/server issue. |
| 16:44.36 | Hanuman | uh oh - hopefully they fix it when they start switching things to Linux |
| 16:44.54 | Bradipo | They may have fixed it already. |
| 16:45.16 | Bradipo | Anyway, GroupWise will interpret a 4xx error message as a permanent failure and bounce the message. |
| 16:45.20 | Bradipo | Rather than defer it. |
| 16:45.25 | Bradipo | So broken. |
| 16:47.38 | Hanuman | yup - isn't 5xx a permanent failure? |
| 16:47.44 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 16:48.00 | Bradipo | 5xx is permanent, 4xx is temporary (meaning retry delivery later). |
| 16:48.03 | *** join/#utah ample_ (~ample@c-24-10-202-120.client.comcast.net) |
| 16:52.05 | bonez39 | has hans been around today ? I see he is away now |
| 17:18.11 | *** join/#utah HarleyPig (~JS@65.105.156.40) |
| 17:29.48 | *** join/#utah mattfred (~mattfred@c-24-10-180-237.client.comcast.net) |
| 17:30.42 | Hanuman | How do I change my bayes sensitivity in spamassassin? |
| 17:30.49 | Hanuman | I can't find it in the docs anywhere |
| 17:32.55 | mattfred | DOesn't (new) mozilla mail have spam filtering? |
| 17:33.06 | Jayce^ | yes, bayesian.. |
| 17:33.35 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, perldoc Mail::SpamAssassin::Conf |
| 17:33.40 | Jayce^ | that'll show you all you can do |
| 17:35.52 | Tenebram | Yay, it's hans! |
| 17:36.15 | hans | ok, wireless gurus, what is the 'best' chipset for linux? I know prism cards have more features, but they use a funky driver not in the standard kernel?... |
| 17:36.37 | hans | and different user tools, etc. what's the accepted one to go with? |
| 17:38.26 | mattfred | I used prism, because the hostap driver let me do anything. |
| 17:38.30 | mattfred | hostap isn't difficult to install either. |
| 17:38.46 | Hanuman | Jayce^: I couldn't find it in Mail::SpamAssassin::Conf |
| 17:39.14 | mattfred | But, orinoco / avaya / lucent are also a close contender because the drivers for them are coming up close to par with hostap. |
| 17:39.45 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@cpe-66-87-26-31.ut.sprintbbd.net) |
| 17:39.58 | mattfred | If you're gong to run Kismet (for aghem .. monitoring purposes ...) you will probably do best with a prism card. |
| 17:40.22 | mattfred | If you're going to be running your wireless as a simple client, orinoco/luc/avay probably the best. |
| 17:49.31 | hans | anyone know of any good mars wallpapers using these new images? |
| 17:49.48 | tensai | I had an orinoco from Lucent and it worked great. Even got it working with Airsnort once. Worked with no fuss in Debian. |
| 17:56.15 | HarleyPig | Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong with the following macro? #mutt is being less than helpful |
| 17:56.33 | HarleyPig | macro index <Alt>s <save-message>+/home1/harleypig/mboxes/spam.mbox |
| 17:58.08 | Hanuman | hmmm...I can see how to change bayes sensitivity for Maildrop, but can't find any docs on how to change it for spamassassin - is it even possible? |
| 17:58.15 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, score TAG_NAME xx |
| 17:58.38 | Hanuman | is that what those are for? |
| 17:58.51 | hans | HarleyPig: what do you have the + in there for? |
| 17:58.59 | Jayce^ | yeah, to modify the default score for a tag, in your user pref |
| 17:59.44 | hans | + or = is a prefix expanded to your "folder" variable |
| 17:59.52 | Hanuman | ah - score _BAYES_ - there we go |
| 18:00.12 | Hanuman | what is the default Bayes score - do you know? |
| 18:00.26 | Jayce^ | depends on the percentage... |
| 18:00.32 | hans | so either, <save-message>+spam.mbox or <save-message>/home1/harleypig/mboxes/spam.mbox (assuming folder = /home1/harleypig/mboxes) |
| 18:00.40 | hans | folder is ~/Mail by default |
| 18:00.58 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% (an example) |
| 18:02.03 | Hanuman | so setting score _BAYES_ 80 would make all messages with a probability of 80-100% marked as spam, correct? |
| 18:02.32 | HarleyPig | hans: Didn't realize ... I copied it from somewhere ... thought it was part of the save-message command. |
| 18:02.56 | *** join/#utah mhalcrow (~mhalcrow@adsl-66-143-167-109.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) |
| 18:03.04 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, no, look at /usr/share/spamassassin/23_bayes.cf (or where your system has it) for the possible categories |
| 18:03.46 | mhalcrow | I'm still using bogofilter separately from spamassassin. Is spamassassin's bayesian filter any better? |
| 18:04.09 | Jayce^ | mhalcrow, both are good, the advantage to having it inside, is that it's just another part of the SA chain |
| 18:04.21 | Jayce^ | and it's a single process :) |
| 18:04.59 | Jayce^ | the SA version can then also evaluate the message without the rest of the SA tagging, so it looks at just the original message.. |
| 18:05.00 | mhalcrow | Bogofilter takes 5-6 seconds to register a new spam message on my P-133. :-/ |
| 18:05.15 | Jayce^ | hans, you using spamc? |
| 18:05.30 | hans | nope |
| 18:05.30 | Jayce^ | or just starting a spamassassin process? |
| 18:05.50 | Jayce^ | nope to which? |
| 18:07.07 | Hanuman | man - the docs on the bayes filter for spamassassin are very scarce - that cf file made no sense to me |
| 18:07.55 | Jayce^ | the perldoc has a pretty good section on it |
| 18:08.04 | Jayce^ | at least how to configure it |
| 18:08.11 | Hanuman | I checked the perldoc - what section? |
| 18:08.36 | hans | no spamc |
| 18:08.57 | Jayce^ | hans, that would make a very large difference on your processing time... very large |
| 18:09.50 | bonez39 | greetings, Hans |
| 18:09.56 | mhalcrow | Whacking spammer over the head with a big stick would also help your processing time. |
| 18:09.58 | mhalcrow | +s |
| 18:11.05 | mhalcrow | I'm thinking about going to a whitelist-only/challenge-response system. |
| 18:11.40 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, just search for bayes, it's broken into the tags associated with learning, and those dealing with the bayes setup itself |
| 18:11.45 | Hanuman | mhalcrow: I was thinking of the same thing - BradIPO's greylisting is a good way of doing that |
| 18:12.04 | hans | Jayce^: ok, then, point me to a doc that says how to set it up in under 5 minutes. spamassassin's docs are very bad so don't even try to point me there |
| 18:12.09 | Jayce^ | so, anybody setting up their own wayback system now :) |
| 18:12.21 | Hanuman | Jayce^: I think I'm looking under the wrong section - I need to change the sensitivity for salearn, which I think has to be passed into the command-line |
| 18:12.27 | Jayce^ | hans, on you debian box it should be cake.. |
| 18:13.01 | Jayce^ | just modify the default/ file so spamassassin get's started in your init, and start it up with the init script.. |
| 18:13.12 | Hanuman | mhalcrow: another way of doing it I was thinking was to allow either whitelisted entries or entries with a certain passphrase in the subject |
| 18:13.12 | Jayce^ | then set your procmail to use spamc.. and that's it |
| 18:13.37 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, sensitivity for salearn?? so is it sensitive? |
| 18:13.50 | Bradipo | I also use a CR system. |
| 18:13.58 | Hanuman | Jayce: nm - I'm being stupid |
| 18:14.07 | Bradipo | I use qconfirm (kind of like TMDA but not as loaded). |
| 18:14.19 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, man sa-learn |
| 18:14.24 | Hanuman | what is CR? |
| 18:14.34 | Bradipo | Challenge-Response. |
| 18:14.42 | hans | charp :) |
| 18:14.58 | Hanuman | ah - does it auto-add the responders to a whitelist? |
| 18:15.09 | mhalcrow | You can set it up to work transparently in mutt too. (sa-learn, bogofilter, etc.) |
| 18:15.10 | Bradipo | Yes. |
| 18:15.11 | Bradipo | If you want. |
| 18:15.28 | mhalcrow | macro index X "<enter-command>unset wait_key\n<pipe-entry>bogofilter -s\n<enter- |
| 18:15.28 | mhalcrow | command>set wait_key\n<delete-message>" |
| 18:15.33 | mhalcrow | macro pager X "<enter-command>unset wait_key\n<pipe-entry>bogofilter -s\n<enter- |
| 18:15.33 | mhalcrow | command>set wait_key\n<delete-message>" |
| 18:16.00 | Hanuman | cool - I'll have to look into qconfirm |
| 18:16.12 | Jayce^ | hans, /etc/default/spamassassin, just set the enabled, then start the init script... then add to your procmailrc |
| 18:16.14 | Jayce^ | :0fw |
| 18:16.14 | Jayce^ | * < 256000 |
| 18:16.14 | Jayce^ | | spamc |
| 18:16.18 | Jayce^ | and it's configured |
| 18:16.58 | Bradipo | Hanuman: http://smarden.org/qconfirm/ |
| 18:17.04 | Hanuman | Bradipo: tnx |
| 18:17.35 | Bradipo | Greylisting is alos a type of challenge-response system but at the SMTP level. |
| 18:17.43 | Hanuman | yeah |
| 18:17.46 | Bradipo | The challenge really is just to retry deliveyr. |
| 18:17.49 | Hanuman | I like that method even better |
| 18:18.53 | hans | Jayce^: thanks. seems to be working |
| 18:19.11 | mhalcrow | Until that recruiter gives up and decides to contact someone else who doesn't make him jump through hoops to offer you a job. |
| 18:19.30 | hans | i just set up spamassassin with autolearning this morning, and took bogofilter out of the loop. want to see how it does. bogofilter is having trouble with all these japanese and chinese spams I'm all of a sudden getting |
| 18:19.35 | Jayce^ | hans, spamc is just a really light c program, just pipes it to a running sa daemon.. hence the much lower startup cost.. |
| 18:19.39 | Hanuman | Jayce^: i've done a search for bayes and I don't see any tags for learning - I just see the auto_whitelist and auto_blacklist tags |
| 18:20.06 | Jayce^ | hans, do you want the foreign messages (probably from ruby stuff maybe?) |
| 18:20.19 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, what version is you sa? |
| 18:20.27 | mhalcrow | hans: I hear that blocking Asian domains does wonders for spam reduction. |
| 18:20.27 | hans | no, aside from the occasional character my brother throws in |
| 18:20.37 | mhalcrow | As long as nobody in Asia is trying to contact you. |
| 18:20.43 | hans | like my bro on a mission... |
| 18:21.03 | Hanuman | Jayce^: 2.55 |
| 18:21.18 | Jayce^ | sa let's you provide scoring for charsets.. |
| 18:21.42 | Hanuman | I only allow english and thai characterset e-mails through |
| 18:22.16 | Jayce^ | english and pt |
| 18:22.25 | hans | i'm not into editing files to tweak filtering |
| 18:22.27 | Hanuman | you can also block subnets through sa |
| 18:22.27 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, pretty sure you need to upgrade for the bayes.. |
| 18:22.35 | Jayce^ | think it was introduced around 2.6 or so |
| 18:22.58 | Hanuman | Jayce^: ahh...stupid Redhat 9.0 - I'll have to remove the rpm then and install from source I guess |
| 18:23.01 | mhalcrow | I like the idea of vigilante justice better. |
| 18:23.03 | Jayce^ | hans, dont' have to, that's just an option.. |
| 18:23.09 | hans | no need to when we have these machine learning things like bayes. and bayes is simplistic and easy to implement. I'd just as soon write more intelligent AI code than tweak rules |
| 18:24.16 | mhalcrow | We just need to get users groups around the world involved in a response system. |
| 18:24.39 | mhalcrow | Just a friendly visit. To remind the spammers that some folks are taking a personal interest in their activities. |
| 18:24.51 | mhalcrow | :-) |
| 18:24.55 | Hanuman | bbl - lunch |
| 18:25.19 | Hanuman | raway |
| 18:25.20 | hans | say, is there a userspace IMAP daemon? (would run on a high port obviously) |
| 18:25.22 | Hanuman | oops |
| 18:25.25 | mhalcrow | Actually, maybe we can send a group invoice to spammers. |
| 18:25.33 | mhalcrow | Class-action invoices. |
| 18:25.47 | mhalcrow | To collect for processor time and bandwidth usage on private networks. |
| 18:25.58 | *** join/#utah Mecworks_|Work (~Marc@novell123456.print.lab.novell.com) |
| 18:26.15 | hans | preferably one that understands Maildir and is quite configurable |
| 18:27.02 | Bradipo | hans: I assume you don't have root access to setup IMAP normally? |
| 18:29.03 | hans | well technically in this case I do have root access, but wouldn't like to run a regular IMAP server for all users - just would like to serve up my Maildirs |
| 18:29.34 | tensai | why not just a client that understands maildir? |
| 18:31.35 | *** join/#utah jalance_ (~jalance@208.187.199.250) |
| 18:31.58 | hans | tensai: my solution up to this point. mutt. works well enough. like they say, if it ain't broke, break it |
| 18:32.39 | Jayce^ | connection problems in provo? jalance_, Mecworks_|Work are both doubles of people.. |
| 18:35.01 | Jayce^ | grr, there has got to be a way to do this... |
| 18:35.13 | Jayce^ | can you add yourself to a group, and have it's access without having to relogin?? |
| 18:37.15 | Newsome | Jayce: yeah, it should work that way. after you've added yourself, use 'id' to see who you are |
| 18:37.30 | hans | Jayce^: in my experience, you can't |
| 18:37.45 | hans | but you can fire up a new login shell xterm if you need to |
| 18:37.45 | mhalcrow | Would anyone here like to take part in class-action invoices and/or lawsuits against spammers? |
| 18:38.10 | mhalcrow | For their use of your private networking resources? |
| 18:38.12 | Jayce^ | Newsome, what method are you using to add yourself, because it doesn't work like that for me.. |
| 18:38.16 | HarleyPig | Sure ... want my spam corpus? |
| 18:38.29 | mhalcrow | There would be several steps involved. |
| 18:38.42 | mhalcrow | I'm afraid it may require new legislation. :-/ |
| 18:39.08 | mhalcrow | Something that would allow you to, at your discretion, bill someone for using your private networking facilities via electronic messages. |
| 18:39.09 | Jayce^ | mhalcrow, so start signing up all our legislators to spam lists.. |
| 18:39.13 | Newsome | hmm, strange... serves me right for thinking :) |
| 18:39.32 | mhalcrow | This would be a varient of the ``token'' spam solution, only without the token. |
| 18:39.44 | mhalcrow | variant |
| 18:40.24 | mhalcrow | You might need a notification on your web site, explaining your acceptable use policy for your e-mail services. |
| 18:40.50 | mhalcrow | Exmplain that unsolicited commercial e-mails to your servers carries a charge. |
| 18:40.54 | mhalcrow | -m |
| 18:41.28 | mhalcrow | Then get a large group of people who have that notification up, who receive the same spam, to create a collective $25,000 invoice to the spamming entity. |
| 18:41.45 | Newsome | Jayce, looks like you'll have to log out/in again. sorry |
| 18:42.05 | mhalcrow | There needs to be a coalition. |
| 18:42.13 | mhalcrow | And that's a lot of work. :-) |
| 18:43.28 | mhalcrow | It would involve an extension to the MTA to include a congregating feature, whereby a number of MTA's can report on specific spams to a source. Kind of like RBL's. |
| 18:43.49 | mhalcrow | The more prevalent spam's would get earmarked for invoicing. |
| 18:44.07 | mhalcrow | And the coalition would draft an invoice to the sending entity on behalf of all who received the spam. |
| 18:44.25 | mhalcrow | That invoice may have to go to collections, or to court, and the coalition would fight it to the end. |
| 18:45.57 | mhalcrow | Just some thoughts. Now back to work... |
| 18:46.24 | Tenebram | I actually recieve very little spam. |
| 18:46.34 | Tenebram | 3-4/day |
| 18:46.40 | mhalcrow | Would you like me to fix that for you? :-) |
| 18:46.48 | Tenebram | no, I wouldn't. |
| 18:47.33 | mhalcrow | Ever hear about those stories where people infect others with some disease in order to garner support for curing that disease? |
| 18:47.46 | mhalcrow | It's a sick mentality. :-) |
| 18:48.47 | Tenebram | no, I've never heard those stories. |
| 18:49.04 | mhalcrow | They're (ironically enough) in chain letters sometimes. |
| 18:49.28 | mhalcrow | Like the AIDS-infected needle in the coin slot or the gas pump. |
| 18:49.53 | mhalcrow | Look it up sometime. Those stories are widely regarded as hoaxes though. |
| 18:49.55 | Tenebram | that's an interesting idea though... |
| 18:50.06 | Tenebram | sign up as many politicians for as much spam as possible |
| 18:52.52 | Tenebram | get their serves flooded with spam. |
| 18:53.20 | HarleyPig | You don't think someone hasn't already done that? |
| 18:54.26 | Tenebram | I really have no idea. |
| 18:54.50 | Tenebram | although I'm sure however much they recieve, they could still recieve much more. |
| 19:05.44 | mhalcrow | Who here would run a separate mail server that provides authentication? |
| 19:05.47 | mhalcrow | If one existed? |
| 19:06.02 | mhalcrow | Like XMTP (eXtended Mail Transfer Protocol)? |
| 19:06.16 | mhalcrow | Listen to a new port. Receive messages with authentication headers. |
| 19:06.37 | mhalcrow | Use GPG web-of-trust model to evaluate trust. |
| 19:06.44 | Tenebram | I would. |
| 19:07.03 | mhalcrow | I think we just need pockets of people to start using something other than SMTP. |
| 19:07.13 | Tenebram | That's an excellent idea. |
| 19:07.53 | Jayce^ | mhalcrow, you ever read up on amtp? |
| 19:08.02 | Jayce^ | amtp.bw.org I think |
| 19:08.15 | mhalcrow | checking.. |
| 19:08.29 | mhalcrow | Ah. Interesting. |
| 19:09.05 | mhalcrow | Now we just need an implementation. |
| 19:09.20 | Jayce^ | right |
| 19:09.26 | mhalcrow | And of January, so the guy says... |
| 19:09.27 | mhalcrow | End |
| 19:09.32 | Tenebram | there's amtp-impl.sf.net |
| 19:09.34 | Tenebram | wait, no there isn't |
| 19:09.36 | Jayce^ | yeah, I work with bill. |
| 19:09.48 | Jayce^ | bill == bw |
| 19:09.52 | mhalcrow | Hm. |
| 19:10.05 | mhalcrow | This needs Slashdot coverage. :-) |
| 19:10.21 | Jayce^ | the first draft was linked on /. |
| 19:10.33 | mhalcrow | I will be among the first to run something like this on my server. |
| 19:10.57 | Jayce^ | mhalcrow, then get on his list and have fun :) |
| 19:11.08 | Jayce^ | he's looking for more folks who are interested |
| 19:11.24 | mhalcrow | Yet another project to jump into... <sigh> |
| 19:11.24 | mhalcrow | :-) |
| 19:11.38 | Jayce^ | ahh the life of a geek :) |
| 19:15.21 | mhalcrow | smtp+spf looks neat too |
| 19:16.26 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@asterix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:17.10 | *** join/#utah bytheway (~bbythewa@gibraltar.deseretbook.net) |
| 19:22.30 | *** join/#utah BigDog (~BigDog@206.71.92.161) |
| 19:31.06 | *** join/#utah synic|home (~synic@65-100-210-193.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 19:46.08 | Jayce^ | ok, I cant' remember which list it was, but I know the other day I saw a quick description of setting up a /home share in samba 3.0 |
| 19:46.23 | Jayce^ | I haven't used samba in ages, and setting up the shared home dirs doesnt' seem to be working.. |
| 20:14.50 | Hanuman | hehe - that would be interesting - the internet in a way began in Utah - imagine a new mail protocol emerging out of Utah |
| 20:15.37 | Hanuman | #utah is the center of the internet it seems ;-) |
| 20:17.44 | Hanuman | Are there any tricks to getting jobs in Silicon Valley? |
| 20:19.18 | Jayce^ | be smart |
| 20:19.21 | brailsmt_ | Hanuman: free love |
| 20:19.26 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 20:19.26 | jalance_ | shaking their hand? |
| 20:19.30 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 20:19.56 | Hanuman | :) |
| 20:20.19 | brailsmt_ | silicon valley is the only place in the world were you can make a six figure salary and barely be able to afford a cardbox box for your home... |
| 20:20.28 | Hanuman | lol |
| 20:20.54 | Hanuman | I was thinking the other day that I'd love to have some of the companies in S.V. on my resume, though |
| 20:21.12 | Hanuman | most of them have *great* benefits despite the pay, too |
| 20:21.12 | neybar_work | no joking, I read an article a year or so ago that said the poverty level was at 70,000 |
| 20:22.12 | Hanuman | I'm hoping I at least get to talk with the guy at yahoo finance that I applied for - he wrote the Mastering Regular Expressions book |
| 20:22.19 | neybar_work | at the same time I would love to live somewhere around there. I love the bay area |
| 20:22.26 | Hanuman | well, I applied for a job, not the guy |
| 20:22.48 | Hanuman | I like all of Texas westward |
| 20:23.05 | Hanuman | Easterners are too prideful of being Easterners |
| 20:23.11 | brailsmt_ | i would, however love to live and work in texas... housing there is cheap |
| 20:23.25 | Hanuman | oh yeah - if I could just convince my wife... |
| 20:23.35 | Hanuman | I'd move to TX in a heartbeat |
| 20:23.56 | Hanuman | Austin where mhalcrow works has a ton of tech jobs |
| 20:24.00 | brailsmt_ | places on my list to avoid: Silicon Valley, Boston... |
| 20:24.04 | Hanuman | it's a fun place to live, too |
| 20:24.36 | brailsmt_ | they rank really high on salary, but real low on income adjusted for cost of living... |
| 20:24.56 | hans | boston is a heckuva cool place though |
| 20:25.02 | brailsmt_ | iirc, houston and dallas ranked #1 and #2 for income adjusted to cost of living... |
| 20:25.11 | Hanuman | Northern VA, beltway area is also like that |
| 20:26.02 | brailsmt_ | :| |
| 20:27.45 | Hanuman | Where? In TX? |
| 20:27.48 | brailsmt_ | MO |
| 20:28.03 | Hanuman | ahh...where all the farmers live |
| 20:28.05 | brailsmt_ | TX is more like 3000 sqft on 1.5 acres for that price |
| 20:28.56 | Hanuman | My parents bought their 2000+ sqft home in Houston for right around 100k |
| 20:29.08 | brailsmt_ | a few years ago my wife and were going to buy a 1300 sqft home in saratoga springs on .35 acres for $175,000... |
| 20:29.17 | Hanuman | property taxes are high, though |
| 20:29.35 | brailsmt_ | grr... my wife and I that is... |
| 20:29.45 | Hanuman | brailsmt_: sounds like homes around where I am right now |
| 20:30.25 | brailsmt_ | then there is Salisbury homes... a 1200 sqft shack on a postage stamp for $100k |
| 20:30.34 | Jayce^ | ouch |
| 20:30.37 | brailsmt_ | that will fall apart in 2 years |
| 20:31.05 | brailsmt_ | over in the Ranches the lots are .1 - .25 acres... |
| 20:31.29 | Jayce^ | uhh, ranches goes up to 5 acres |
| 20:31.32 | brailsmt_ | a few feet of yard surround the house... real easy to mow though... |
| 20:31.41 | brailsmt_ | Jayce^: not for the typical home... |
| 20:31.52 | Jayce^ | mine is a .23, one of the smallest allowed in our subdivision |
| 20:32.09 | Hanuman | We almost bought a home in the ranches |
| 20:32.21 | Hanuman | Jayce^: are your utilities high? |
| 20:32.25 | brailsmt_ | we did too, but the small lot size dissuaded us |
| 20:32.31 | Hanuman | brailsmt_: us too |
| 20:32.34 | Jayce^ | not too much more than they were before |
| 20:32.46 | Jayce^ | and my lot is larger than most the ones in our range in orem |
| 20:32.46 | Hanuman | before you bought the home? |
| 20:33.01 | Jayce^ | before, as in old house |
| 20:33.13 | Hanuman | ahhh - you're one of the lucky ones then so I hear |
| 20:33.23 | Jayce^ | actually, our dsl is a lot less, and our electric is a little more.. |
| 20:33.32 | brailsmt_ | we could have bought a house on a .21 acre lot, but we would have had to pay a lot premium!?! |
| 20:33.47 | Jayce^ | gas was quite good, until they raised the minimum, but it's still not very much |
| 20:34.03 | Hanuman | Have you had any of the poligamists try to convert you yet? My wife has a friend over there who says their ward has a big problem with people converting over to poligamy |
| 20:34.06 | Jayce^ | brailsmt_, what builder? sounds more like a problem with the developer than the ranches in all |
| 20:34.19 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, nope, don't know any around here. |
| 20:35.05 | Hanuman | I got a kick out of that at least - her friend must be further North I'm guessing |
| 20:35.14 | brailsmt_ | Jayce^: panda homes, american something or other, we looked at salisbury for a few days, basically all the ones that were building in the ranches back in 2000 |
| 20:35.20 | Jayce^ | you mean east.. |
| 20:36.01 | Jayce^ | americraft... yeah, you musta looked right at the area near the 4-way stop, the rubber stamp houses.. |
| 20:36.10 | Hanuman | Is it east of there that all the poligamists live? |
| 20:36.10 | Jayce^ | I'm east of there.. |
| 20:36.18 | brailsmt_ | Jayce^: that is all there was at the time... |
| 20:36.22 | Jayce^ | sorry, west, out by cedar fort |
| 20:36.38 | Jayce^ | brailsmt_, looks a *lot* different now :) |
| 20:37.10 | Jayce^ | we live close to the elementry school, churches all over now, lotsa parks, golf course is excellent.. |
| 20:37.19 | brailsmt_ | we then looked at buying one from petersen(?) a bit further up te highway on an acre lot |
| 20:37.32 | Hanuman | yeah - when we looked it was all construction over there |
| 20:37.37 | Jayce^ | cedar pass area.. dont' know that bulider, but the larger lots |
| 20:38.04 | Jayce^ | well, there is still tons of construction.. building all the houses alongside the course now.. |
| 20:38.09 | Hanuman | We ended up buying a home in south Provo right up on the mountain (above the Youth detention center) |
| 20:38.18 | brailsmt_ | it would have been 165k base price for 12sqft home on that acre lot, and the location was way out in the middle of nowhere... |
| 20:38.23 | Jayce^ | got stores near us now, building more/better roads out here. |
| 20:38.55 | brailsmt_ | we drove by last summer (back in the ranches) and from what we saw, it looked the same... too many houses too close together... |
| 20:39.40 | Hanuman | If I worked from home I'd live in the Ranches too I think (on the larger lots at least) |
| 20:39.52 | brailsmt_ | until you drive through the cheap houses out here you don't notice how close together all the houses in utah are... |
| 20:40.56 | Hanuman | Why don't I ever see any Perl jobs in Utah posted on jobs@perl.org? |
| 20:41.14 | Jayce^ | because there aren't many jobs here :) |
| 20:41.23 | Hanuman | :( |
| 20:42.10 | Hanuman | Any chance of IDI hiring in the near future? |
| 20:42.42 | Jayce^ | lol.. thought you wanted a real job :) |
| 20:43.15 | Hanuman | well, I'd certainly bargain with them on salary and benefits |
| 20:43.22 | Hanuman | benefits are what I care about most right now |
| 20:44.07 | Hanuman | I'm just looking for anything in Utah - as long as it has something to do with Perl |
| 20:44.07 | Jayce^ | and they would say, if you won't work for super cheap, and no benefits, we don't want you.. |
| 20:44.14 | Hanuman | (and pays me what I'm worth in either money or benefits) |
| 20:44.27 | Hanuman | guess IDI's out of the question then |
| 20:45.05 | Jayce^ | like they have ever been a serious option |
| 20:45.52 | Hanuman | It's fun to pretend at least - if management was decent and pay was decent they'd be a decent company to work for |
| 20:46.25 | Jayce^ | but management is not decent, pay is never decent, nor stable.. |
| 20:46.42 | Hanuman | oh - and benefits were terrible - don't know if that has changed since or not |
| 20:46.59 | Jayce^ | probably not.. |
| 20:47.03 | Jayce^ | probably worse, if anything |
| 20:47.13 | Hanuman | Actually, my last job was the best job I've had - all Linux, all mod_perl, all MySQL, public company, great benefits, great pay |
| 20:47.26 | Hanuman | if I could find that in Utah I'd be in heaven |
| 20:47.57 | Hanuman | wonder how About's doing these days |
| 20:48.13 | Jayce^ | a lot less people :) |
| 20:48.29 | Hanuman | yeah - they'd be a cool company to work for if I didn't have to worry about the less people thing |
| 20:48.47 | Hanuman | I started out there when they were still just doing Freeservers |
| 20:48.52 | Hanuman | doing tech support |
| 20:48.58 | Jayce^ | sure, just sit there and listen to dan go over true relational theory :p |
| 20:49.04 | Hanuman | That was a cool company as well as they grew |
| 20:49.10 | Jayce^ | I can bug him, since he hasnt' been able to come for a while |
| 20:49.11 | Hanuman | lol |
| 20:49.29 | Hanuman | Mike Handy was the talkative one there |
| 20:49.47 | Jayce^ | sure, mike always is, just get him started on star wars :) |
| 20:49.52 | Hanuman | His brother Nate was my boss |
| 20:50.10 | Jayce^ | he said he can come this month, as his wifes YW night changed from wednesday |
| 20:50.32 | Hanuman | yeah - it was the first year Star Wars was released when I was working there - we heard every secret about the movie before it came out |
| 20:51.05 | Hanuman | We often wondered if he actually worked or just read Star Wars news all day |
| 20:52.54 | Hanuman | I was noticing this morning that Globalservers was doing some cool ads on /. |
| 21:08.03 | synic | uh... so does perl read the shebang? I just accidentally ran a ruby script with perl test.rb and it worked |
| 21:12.43 | Hanuman | when you run it from the perl executable it knows where the perl binary is located, so doesn't need the shabang |
| 21:12.45 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@128.187.246.0) |
| 21:13.27 | synic | ah, apparently both perl and ruby will read the shebang first and switch to one or the other |
| 21:13.39 | synic | if you use the command like $ perl file.rb or $ ruby file.pl |
| 21:14.30 | Hanuman | the shabang I think is ignored by perl itself - it is used primarily by the shell if I understand correctly |
| 21:14.43 | Hanuman | ruby probably does the same thing |
| 21:14.55 | synic | only if you use it as an executable, ie: $ ./file.rb |
| 21:15.01 | Hanuman | yeah |
| 21:15.25 | sjansen | The mod_perl list sure is low volume. |
| 21:16.49 | tensai | probably because only the technologically inept use Perl, right Jayce^ |
| 21:17.25 | Jayce^ | the opposite |
| 21:17.32 | synic | muhahah |
| 21:17.35 | synic | :) |
| 21:17.36 | Jayce^ | sjansen, it's not that low, on the official list.... |
| 21:18.02 | Jayce^ | I've got about 950 messages since the beginning of last month |
| 21:18.05 | sjansen | What's the "official" list? All i found was modperl@perl.apache.org |
| 21:18.22 | Jayce^ | yeah, that's the main one |
| 21:18.34 | sjansen | Has it just been slow the last few days? |
| 21:18.45 | sjansen | Or is BYU filtering out a bunch of messages I should be getting? |
| 21:19.22 | Jayce^ | yeah, I've only got about 17 messages since monday |
| 21:19.36 | Jayce^ | so it's slower than, say uug :) |
| 21:20.15 | sjansen | Which can produce 17 messages in an hour. |
| 21:20.27 | sjansen | Given the right (off-)topic. |
| 21:20.46 | sjansen | How many since yesterday? |
| 21:22.15 | jakea | it's mostly been that wireless network thread going on |
| 21:22.37 | jakea | and no one commented on my "SCO software" I offered. Made me sad. |
| 21:24.17 | sjansen | You were just trolling. Why feed a troll? |
| 21:25.40 | sjansen | Besides, we're all afraid of upsetting brother SCO. |
| 21:27.45 | Hanuman | ^sue sjansen |
| 21:27.48 | bonez39 | how's SCO doing? I read in the Trib recently that their stock is SOARING....what's that about? |
| 21:28.11 | Hanuman | media attention |
| 21:28.19 | bonez39 | Do these investors not read the news or know what's going on? Are they getting clients from the American Fork Training School? |
| 21:28.22 | bonez39 | ah.... |
| 21:28.23 | bonez39 | ok |
| 21:28.27 | Hanuman | people anticipating that they have a chance |
| 21:28.42 | HarleyPig | People speculating ... hoping to dump it before it tanks. |
| 21:29.16 | Hanuman | Just imagine - if they are right, which it doesn't look like it, they will be a very valuable company |
| 21:29.19 | Jayce^ | about 15 |
| 21:30.06 | HarleyPig | I'm more cynical ... I think people are watching very closely ... as soon as SCO's stock starts to seriously dip they're gonna dump it hard. |
| 21:30.46 | HarleyPig | Kind of like that truck in T3 when the hook grabbed the pavement. Hopefully McBride and company will get smashed flat too. |
| 21:31.43 | *** join/#utah MdG_work (~mdg@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com) |
| 21:32.17 | MdG_work | I didn't know byu has a uug. |
| 21:33.20 | Jayce^ | they do, poor things :) |
| 21:33.48 | MdG_work | lol |
| 21:34.06 | Hanuman | actually, I think they had one before Provo did |
| 21:34.12 | Jayce^ | nope |
| 21:34.19 | Hanuman | was PLUG around longer? |
| 21:34.33 | Jayce^ | plug was originally going to be a byu group, but they couldn't get a sponsor or permission.. |
| 21:34.40 | Jayce^ | uug started a few years later.. |
| 21:34.48 | Hanuman | ahh...okay |
| 21:34.56 | Hanuman | I know it was around in the early days of Linux |
| 21:35.11 | Jayce^ | yeah, plug is pretty old, but sllug is older still |
| 21:35.15 | Jayce^ | one of the earliest |
| 21:35.41 | Hanuman | I had a companion tell me all about how he was an officer of UUG before his mission (that was in 97 I think) |
| 21:38.56 | sjansen | The founder of the UUG is still kicking about Orem. |
| 21:39.08 | Hanuman | what year was UUG founded? |
| 21:39.36 | sjansen | I visited a UUG meeting around 96-97. |
| 21:39.49 | sjansen | You'd have to ask someone older than myself. |
| 21:40.01 | jakea | sjansen: Trolling? Would you like me to REALLY troll the UUG list? Cause I could |
| 21:40.31 | HarleyPig | :D |
| 21:41.25 | jakea | I was just being funny. |
| 21:42.08 | sjansen | And I wasn't? |
| 21:43.08 | jakea | ;) |
| 21:45.21 | sjansen | :-P |
| 21:51.32 | MdG_work | I always thought "Orem" sounds like a body part. |
| 21:53.19 | jakea | only if you talk in the Utahan dialect |
| 21:53.29 | jakea | like.... |
| 21:53.35 | *** join/#utah mhalcrow (~mhalcrow@adsl-66-143-167-109.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) |
| 21:53.45 | jakea | My wife goes to work in arm deli. |
| 21:54.12 | MdG_work | sad |
| 21:54.16 | MdG_work | ;) |
| 21:55.03 | BigDog | when linux loads up does it grab all the memory and then allocate it to apps when they need it? |
| 21:55.40 | MdG_work | I think it just knows about the memory...I dont' think it's actually using all of it. |
| 21:55.51 | mhalcrow | Linux manages the memory. Without a memory manager, you can't "grab" anything. |
| 21:56.40 | BigDog | yeah, i get that...but when i look at my free memory of 1 gig with nothing running i have only 12mb free. |
| 21:56.55 | mhalcrow | It allocates all the memory to the page cache. |
| 21:57.05 | mhalcrow | Use ``free'' |
| 21:57.14 | mhalcrow | To determine what kind of space you actually have available. |
| 21:57.54 | mattfred | The "FREE" memory on your box is only memry that linux couldn' |
| 21:57.57 | mattfred | t find a use for. |
| 21:58.18 | mattfred | cache and buffers are your "effective" free memroy. |
| 21:58.25 | BigDog | that is my 12mb |
| 21:58.53 | BigDog | cool then i need to read up on that...any good places to start |
| 21:59.00 | mhalcrow | The source ;-) |
| 21:59.05 | mattfred | Geez .. |
| 21:59.07 | mhalcrow | ``Understanding the Linux Kernel'' |
| 21:59.11 | mattfred | LOL |
| 21:59.13 | mhalcrow | The 2nd edition is out now |
| 21:59.38 | mattfred | I scoured google for those same answers a few weeks back... |
| 21:59.42 | mattfred | I know its out there. |
| 22:00.26 | mattfred | See, linux tries to UTILIZE your system resources as much as possible. If an application takes more than your 12mb (free) then it is going to dump something off out of the cached memory. |
| 22:02.30 | BigDog | thanks |
| 22:03.30 | mhalcrow | You're very much welcome. Come back anytime! |
| 22:03.34 | mhalcrow | :-) |
| 22:03.44 | BigDog | lol |
| 22:04.07 | BigDog | "i will be all week" -> |
| 22:10.35 | tensai | on the subject of free memory, Linux also allocates swap memory before it needs it so the output of 'free' regarding swap is misleading |
| 22:10.48 | tensai | use vmstat to see if you're really swapping |
| 22:36.53 | neybar_work | is there a redhat tool for setting up a self signed cert for apache? I am running fedora core... thought I would give it a whirl |
| 22:37.47 | mhalcrow | I think somewhere in the neighborhood of 75% of the certs out there are self-signed. That keeps us around 1976-era crypto technology. |
| 22:38.00 | mhalcrow | I use OpenSSL to make my self-signed certs. |
| 22:42.32 | neybar_work | I figured it out, the cert was already there, but the conf file was pointing to the wrong place |
| 22:43.17 | mhalcrow | I was thinking about opening a new joint. ``Mike's Used Cars and X.509 Certs''. |
| 23:04.56 | neybar_work | lol |
| 23:05.08 | neybar_work | free is good on a dev box |
| 23:13.24 | *** join/#utah Voip (~ample@c-24-10-202-120.client.comcast.net) |
| 23:13.31 | mhalcrow | Going home now. That means I get to fight Austin traffic again... |
| 23:41.34 | *** part/#utah tomeast (~teastmond@63-253-57-90.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 23:54.07 | *** join/#utah incubi (~barry@67.107.199.254.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 23:55.55 | incubi | HarleyPig you awake? |