| 00:00.45 | HarleyPig | So that's about 1/4 million a day. |
| 00:01.44 | HarleyPig | I realize that number fluctuates, but still ... |
| 00:02.33 | HarleyPig | Oh ... I misheard ... they're currently doing 5-10M a week, they want to move up to daily 3-5M |
| 00:04.37 | bartw | and the saddest commentary on our society is that if you shot them, you could go to jail. |
| 00:04.57 | HarleyPig | *would* go to jail. :> |
| 00:05.09 | Tenebram | only if you got caught, Harley. |
| 00:05.26 | HarleyPig | They're spammers. My luck, I'd get caught on tape. |
| 00:16.20 | Jayce^ | what jury would convict? :) |
| 00:18.37 | HarleyPig | heh |
| 00:22.37 | HarleyPig | Off to school. CYA |
| 00:24.44 | sjansen | Harley isn't the only spammer in the Plug. |
| 00:25.04 | sjansen | Who was the other?... |
| 00:28.05 | sjansen | ibot ping hans |
| 00:28.09 | | pong hans |
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| 00:29.04 | sjansen | stupid ibot |
| 00:29.31 | sjansen | sighup is smarter than ibot |
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| 03:11.47 | Jayce^ | sjansen, neybar is stuck working for a spammer right now.. |
| 03:28.23 | tensai | speaking of spammers, last week I set up a quiet little public mail server which has basically no traffic to it. I'm already seeing failed relay attempts. |
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| 14:11.49 | Hanuman | good morning... |
| 14:18.13 | neybar_work | morning |
| 14:20.43 | Hanuman | You want to completely lose your economics teacher? |
| 14:20.57 | Hanuman | Ask him whether OSS is good or bad for an economy |
| 14:21.09 | neybar_work | tell him to read the cringely article? |
| 14:21.36 | Hanuman | I brought that up last night and the geeks in the class got into a nice heated discussion, but he kept asking questions like "why would someone want to give it away for free?" |
| 14:22.16 | Hanuman | do you have a url for that? |
| 14:22.36 | neybar_work | yeah I've had a few interesting discussions here at work. I am the only one who is really interested in the OSS model. My co-workers have no trouble using free software, but they have no interest in giving back |
| 14:22.42 | neybar_work | http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20031023.html |
| 14:22.50 | Hanuman | tnx |
| 14:23.19 | Mecworks | There's a lot of non-oss examples of products which are given away for free where one signs up for a service - cell phones come t mind. |
| 14:23.37 | Hanuman | yeah - I think it's a better form of economy that would put us superior to the rest of the world if we were to move more to a services-based economy rather than goods |
| 14:24.25 | Hanuman | if we could get rid of our need to keep physical things secret and just share, technology would improve so much faster |
| 14:24.46 | neybar_work | besides the fact that in the long run you are actually going to make more money with services then you will goods. Granted goods have the potential of giving you more money upfront, but that will quickly fad as some one else or technology passes you by |
| 14:25.20 | Mecworks | yup, because of "trade secrets", etc. Many companies and people reinvent the wheel daily. |
| 14:26.08 | Hanuman | It's interesting to watch companies such as IBM become more services oriented (bundling already existing software and hardware together and providing to the public) |
| 14:26.36 | neybar_work | yeah, I am actually looking into law school. I am hoping to start next year if I can get my LSAT and stuff done in time. The current state of our patent/copyright system really bothers me |
| 14:29.58 | Mecworks | Not to detract from the current subject or anything .... my Rio Karma is on it's way... http://www.computers4sure.com/product.asp?productid=1798314 Coupon code 'ddm994' gives you an additional $20.00 off plus there's a $20.00 rebate. |
| 14:30.20 | Mecworks | free shipping, no tax. |
| 15:10.14 | brailsmt | SCO's at it again... |
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| 16:44.21 | neybar_work | is there a way to make files created in a particular directory tree to be owned by the same group as the parent directory? |
| 16:47.05 | bartw | use the set GID bit. |
| 16:47.21 | bartw | chmod g+s <dir> |
| 16:47.23 | bartw | I believe. |
| 16:48.05 | Jayce^ | I was thinking of having someone give a 2 minute rundown on that topic at plug (since the question comes up a lot).. maybe I really will |
| 16:48.13 | neybar_work | I found it |
| 16:48.38 | Jayce^ | start a new 'quick tips & tricks' section to the intro.. |
| 16:50.48 | neybar_work | only problem with tips and tricks is that there are so many with *nix that it would be hard to sort through :-) |
| 16:51.06 | Jayce^ | but it's a great starter, especially for new people.. |
| 16:51.25 | neybar_work | I can only hold so many tricks in memory at once, then they start falling off at the back |
| 16:51.26 | mhalcrow | It wouldn't hurt for Linux to have a nice task-oriented documentation index. |
| 16:51.46 | Jayce^ | mhalcrow, Unix Power Tools :) |
| 16:51.53 | neybar_work | what I really need is UPT v3 |
| 16:52.23 | mhalcrow | Is there an on-line version? |
| 16:52.38 | Jayce^ | mhalcrow, maybe in safari :/ |
| 16:52.51 | neybar_work | Jayce^: it was a toss up between Unix Power Tools and the Vim book for Christmas... |
| 16:52.55 | Jayce^ | someone probably has a pdf version on warez sites :) |
| 16:52.59 | Jayce^ | neybar_work, tough choice |
| 16:53.21 | mhalcrow | I'm only interested in Free documentation, ala man. |
| 16:53.44 | neybar_work | I agree for most things, dead trees are very nice though |
| 16:54.26 | BigDog | the vim book is free too on the vim.org website |
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| 16:54.58 | neybar_work | true, that is actually what inspired me to buy the book |
| 16:55.17 | neybar_work | it was too hard to read online, and I was really liking the few chapters I had waded through |
| 16:55.28 | BigDog | likewise...it is really a great read |
| 16:55.29 | mhalcrow | You can't grep a dead tree. |
| 16:56.11 | Jayce^ | no, but you can use a real highlighter, and use it without power :) (says the man who's laptop doesn't work without a power cord now) |
| 16:56.22 | neybar_work | you also can't huddle up on the couch with a nice hot cocoa with grep |
| 16:56.49 | Jayce^ | I would love to have a e version of many of these books, but I don't have safari anymore :( |
| 16:56.58 | Jayce^ | even better to have a man/whatever version.. |
| 16:57.10 | Jayce^ | I wonder if it's on their unix bookshelf.. |
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| 16:58.06 | sjansen | You also get funny looks when you try to take an online book into the bathroom. |
| 16:58.23 | mhalcrow | Thank goodness for WiFi |
| 16:58.46 | mhalcrow | Dropping a Thinkpad on the tile stinks though. |
| 16:58.51 | BigDog | Jayce^, yes it is the oreilly bookshelf |
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| 16:59.14 | BigDog | dropping almost anything on the tile stinks |
| 16:59.25 | Jayce^ | ooh, the new web developer one comes with the practical mod_perl :) |
| 17:00.25 | mhalcrow | Perl what? Are people still using Perl?? Ruby's at version 1.8.1, you know. |
| 17:00.25 | Jayce^ | yeah, unix bookshelf has the 3 rd version in it :) |
| 17:00.29 | Jayce^ | mhalcrow, yeah, and perl is at 5.8.2 :) |
| 17:00.37 | Jayce^ | with 6 well under development :) |
| 17:00.52 | mhalcrow | But it doesn't have real objects. It has make-believe objects. |
| 17:01.18 | mhalcrow | And where's JPerl? http://jruby.sourceforge.net/ |
| 17:01.25 | Jayce^ | "make-believe"? gee, work real enough for me.. |
| 17:01.53 | mhalcrow | Hmmmm... http://www.javainc.com/projects/jperl/ |
| 17:01.55 | Jayce^ | why would I want jperl? |
| 17:01.58 | bartw | What are the arguments for Ruby over Python? |
| 17:02.07 | BigDog | or lisp...lol |
| 17:02.45 | mhalcrow | http://www.rubygarden.org/iowa/faqtotum/abUltuFOrJ5lE/d/1.11.7.2.5 |
| 17:03.02 | mhalcrow | http://www.approximity.com/ruby/Comparison_rb_st_m_java.html |
| 17:03.34 | mhalcrow | Jayce^: Based on what I see from that web site, you wouldn't. :-) |
| 17:04.00 | Jayce^ | mhalcrow, but for any reason... why do in java what is done well in C? |
| 17:04.10 | Jayce^ | perl itself is nice, fast, portable.. |
| 17:04.43 | mhalcrow | Jayce^: I agree that it's silly. But there *are* a lot of useful things written in Java, and it's convenient to be able to use them. |
| 17:04.51 | mhalcrow | I would never write them though. |
| 17:05.01 | Jayce^ | eww, that last page you showed shows receiver as $_[0].. that's only an unused default, all styles point to use $self |
| 17:05.26 | Jayce^ | mhalcrow, so, if you want to use java and perl, use Inline::Java (or other language if you prefer).. |
| 17:05.37 | Jayce^ | or even better, help out with parrot, and just use parrot |
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| 17:07.10 | sjansen | bartw: Python isn't as much fun as Ruby. |
| 17:07.21 | mhalcrow | I was converted to Ruby when I discovered that ``1'' was in instance of a class. |
| 17:07.31 | mhalcrow | So elegant... |
| 17:08.02 | sjansen | mhalcrow: Yes, but there's no comparison to mod_perl yes. And if there ever is, it will because of Parrot (a largely Perl effort). |
| 17:08.28 | BigDog | or mason |
| 17:08.28 | sjansen | I was turned off on Python when I pushed it to the limit and it broke. Perl never did that to me. |
| 17:08.39 | mhalcrow | Ruby is a fun language, but I still do my hard-core coding in C. :-) |
| 17:08.57 | mhalcrow | sjansen: You mean the interpreter broke? |
| 17:09.01 | Jayce^ | dont' forget, the perl guys are going against guido and the python.net guys this year, for who has the faster python implementation |
| 17:09.06 | sjansen | I could do sick an twisted (bug orthogonal and logical in their own way) things in Perl and it worked. I tried doing the same in Python and discovered the seams. |
| 17:09.15 | sjansen | I haven't had a chance to push Ruby that far yet. |
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| 17:10.48 | sjansen | Now C, there's a language for you. Simple, yet beautiful and powerful. At the same time, a hideous and jealous tormentor. The best proof why there is no "one true language" and the greatest ever created. |
| 17:10.52 | mhalcrow | If you're in the business of pushing the limits, Ruby probably isn't for you. But I might be pleasantly surprised. |
| 17:11.44 | mhalcrow | I tend to do object-oriented C (I impose my own object-oriented style to my C code; I don't want the language constraining me to do it, thank you very much). |
| 17:12.17 | sjansen | Well then you can hardly complain about Perl object implementation if you're willing to do the work needed in C. |
| 17:12.22 | mhalcrow | :-) |
| 17:12.24 | Hanuman | mhalcrow: if you're going to resort to C, why not just use Perl? |
| 17:12.44 | mhalcrow | Hanuman: Try getting LKML to accept a Perl module into the kernel. |
| 17:12.44 | levi | Why in the world would you consider C and perl for the same sorts of tasks? |
| 17:13.00 | levi | You guys are all perl freaks. I don't get it. |
| 17:13.13 | sjansen | You wouldn't understand, Mr. PHP. ;-) |
| 17:13.31 | levi | Mr. PHP? |
| 17:13.37 | mhalcrow | Why can't we just accept our incredible diversity of language preference and love one another? |
| 17:13.40 | sjansen | Actually, mhalcrow is just pointing out that Perl isn't appropriate for all things. |
| 17:13.52 | mhalcrow | Dang, I've been in Austin too long... |
| 17:14.13 | sjansen | No, we can't "just get along." You must all be assimilated! |
| 17:14.33 | mhalcrow | I have something to confess, actually. |
| 17:14.48 | mhalcrow | I've been using VI. |
| 17:14.51 | mhalcrow | Not a lot. |
| 17:15.02 | mhalcrow | Just when it was inconvenient to install EMACS. |
| 17:15.05 | decriptor | what's wrote with VI |
| 17:15.39 | decriptor | wrong |
| 17:15.42 | sjansen | mhalcrow has not yet accepted Vim as his editor. He's not yet willing to leave the church of emacs, his childhood faith. |
| 17:16.00 | bartw | all that's left now is a "which is the best distro" war. |
| 17:16.13 | mhalcrow | decriptor: It's a religious thing. |
| 17:16.14 | decriptor | I hate when I mess up typing something |
| 17:16.20 | levi | mhalcrow: I use vim, but I still think emacs is pretty nifty. I'm just too out of practice with it to use it. |
| 17:16.46 | decriptor | VI is only good when you learn the shortcuts |
| 17:16.52 | decriptor | well not only |
| 17:16.58 | levi | Shame on you people, worshipping the false gods of computer software. ;) |
| 17:16.59 | decriptor | but it's a lot better when you learn them |
| 17:17.37 | mhalcrow | There is some degree of truth in all programming languages and in all text editors. |
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| 17:18.55 | Hanuman | mhalcrow: LKML hasn't converted yet - when they see the light we will all see Perl kernel modules :) |
| 17:19.18 | Hanuman | They will all be assimilated some day |
| 17:19.22 | mhalcrow | Hanuman: When you implement the O(1) scheduler in Perl, I will indeed see the light. |
| 17:20.18 | mhalcrow | But first, I need to implement the kernel in ELISP so EMACS can do the resource and process management on my box. |
| 17:20.28 | mhalcrow | That's the last step... so close... |
| 17:21.07 | mhalcrow | Time to get back to work, folks. Be good or have fun! |
| 17:21.23 | levi | Mmm, lisp machines. |
| 17:22.51 | decriptor | here is a question for you how to get dual monitors with the nvidia drivers to work |
| 17:25.57 | neybar_work | get yanc |
| 17:26.06 | neybar_work | from yanc.sf.net I belive |
| 17:27.03 | neybar_work | the nvidia docs are really good if you want to jump into the XFree86-4 config file and do it your self |
| 17:27.40 | decriptor | I gave up on that I know I missed something small but I just couldn't figure it out |
| 17:28.06 | decriptor | I have a dual monitor card |
| 17:28.16 | decriptor | and it seems like most people have two cards |
| 17:28.23 | neybar_work | yanc is what you want then |
| 17:30.03 | Jayce^ | decriptor, no, I'm running duallies off this single card |
| 17:30.10 | decriptor | oh |
| 17:30.21 | neybar_work | me too |
| 17:30.28 | decriptor | I've been trying to find someone that has been doing that |
| 17:31.02 | Jayce^ | the nvidia docs explain it pretty well |
| 17:31.37 | decriptor | yeah I even tried coping in their file and changing it to what I wanted but had no success I got close but not close enough |
| 17:31.56 | decriptor | oh do both monitors have to be the same as far as resolution |
| 17:32.11 | neybar_work | no |
| 17:32.23 | decriptor | cool I have a 19" and a 17" |
| 17:32.34 | neybar_work | it is easier to setup if they are, but you definately don't have to |
| 17:32.52 | decriptor | nice I got the 19" because of the size and resolution |
| 17:33.43 | neybar_work | you will want to at least skim the twinview section of the docs so you can understand what yanc is doing. |
| 17:34.21 | decriptor | ok |
| 17:35.29 | decriptor | thanks for the help on that one don't know if this is possible but can you split you console to two monitors or are you stuck with a clone of the first one |
| 17:37.02 | neybar_work | twinview lets you treat how ever monitors you have as one viewing space |
| 17:37.27 | neybar_work | it is similar to how xinerama works |
| 17:41.04 | sjansen | Hanuman: You're thinking outloud again. |
| 17:41.31 | decriptor | I mean if you don't have the gui running just pure console |
| 17:42.29 | neybar_work | ah, no idea |
| 17:42.58 | decriptor | I wondering if I can't be done |
| 17:42.58 | decriptor | it would be nice |
| 17:43.32 | neybar_work | seems like it would be more useful to assign different terms to the separate monitors |
| 17:44.12 | neybar_work | all even numbers terminals on one, and all odds on the other |
| 17:44.23 | neybar_work | hmm |
| 17:50.54 | Jayce^ | decriptor, no, console is just a clone as far as I know |
| 17:51.07 | Jayce^ | because the nvidia trick is using X, not console |
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| 17:53.02 | decriptor | yeah that's what I'm thinking it would be nice if you could |
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| 18:02.38 | Hanuman | sjansen: cc # and pin is encrypted in my brain so I won't think it outloud |
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| 18:10.07 | Dan | anyone here know what elf.so does? |
| 18:11.05 | tensai | where do you see it? |
| 18:11.15 | sjansen | My guess would be that it's related to parsing ELF files. ELF is the prefered format for executables in Linux. |
| 18:11.30 | sjansen | I think it's also used for shared libraries. |
| 18:11.32 | Dan | it's in an error log... one sec while I grab the line |
| 18:11.40 | Dan | on FreeBSD |
| 18:11.57 | tensai | elf is common to all unix I believe |
| 18:12.04 | Dan | [Thu Dec 25 08:54:24 2003] [error] [client 67.30.43.131] Premature end of scriptheaders: /www/cgi-bin/nationwide_search.cgi |
| 18:12.07 | Dan | err |
| 18:12.09 | Dan | missed a line |
| 18:12.16 | Dan | /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1: /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/mach/auto/DBD/mys |
| 18:12.16 | Dan | ql/mysql.so: Undefined symbol "mysql_error" |
| 18:12.47 | Jayce^ | poorly linked library sounds like |
| 18:12.47 | Dan | upgraded php, mysql, apache and perl |
| 18:12.59 | Dan | all at the same time without testing individually |
| 18:13.01 | Jayce^ | did you upgrade the necessary perl modules? |
| 18:13.25 | Jayce^ | since if you upgraded just perl and mysql, then the C DBD::mysql library wouldn't work with your new binaries |
| 18:13.29 | Dan | I'm not that familiar with perl |
| 18:13.52 | Dan | so if I update DBD::mysql through cpan |
| 18:14.03 | Dan | would that at least be a good first step? |
| 18:14.10 | Jayce^ | then it should upgrade (or since you are freebsd, maybe ports) |
| 18:14.26 | Jayce^ | Dan, yes, because it will have to be recompiled to work with your upgraded stuff.. |
| 18:14.27 | Dan | seems like cpan would be a better choice |
| 18:14.33 | Dan | k |
| 18:14.35 | Jayce^ | seems like if you did a ports upgrade, it would have triggered them |
| 18:14.43 | Dan | yeah |
| 18:14.48 | Dan | okay, I'll give that a shot |
| 18:14.51 | Jayce^ | actually, quite similar, they both work in a similar manner |
| 18:16.18 | Dan | k |
| 18:16.25 | Dan | in cpan it's just |
| 18:16.30 | Dan | install DBD::mysql |
| 18:16.30 | Dan | ? |
| 18:16.34 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 18:16.40 | Dan | k |
| 18:17.25 | Jayce^ | how did you upgrade the other stuff? source? ports? |
| 18:17.55 | Dan | actually I'm helping out a friend |
| 18:18.02 | Dan | so I'm not sure how he did it |
| 18:18.08 | Dan | it says DBD::mysql is up to date though |
| 18:20.57 | Hanuman | I ran into the same problem the other day - I ended up having to find the associated rpm for the perl libraries, which I *hate* doing for perl modules |
| 18:21.14 | Jayce^ | try just make DBD::mysql |
| 18:21.19 | Dan | k |
| 18:21.49 | Hanuman | what country is .no? |
| 18:21.50 | Dan | that's in /ports/lang/perl or summat right? |
| 18:22.04 | Dan | norway probably |
| 18:22.12 | Jayce^ | can't remember, been too long since I've used freebsd.. |
| 18:22.34 | Hanuman | I've got someone from that address connecting to a whole bunch of ports on our server - ldap, netbios, etc |
| 18:22.50 | Dan | Hanuman - sounds suspicious |
| 18:23.09 | Tenebram | it wasn't me. |
| 18:23.10 | *** join/#utah byron (~byron@tiny.byu.edu) |
| 18:23.13 | Tenebram | I had nothing to do with that. |
| 18:23.13 | Hanuman | yeah - just noticed today - the funny thing is I have those ports that they are connected to closed to the public |
| 18:23.23 | Hanuman | Tenebram: sure... |
| 18:23.30 | Hanuman | we all know you're from Norway |
| 18:23.42 | Tenebram | No, I've never been to norway! |
| 18:23.52 | Tenebram | And I might not have a shell account on a server there! |
| 18:23.55 | Hanuman | That's what they all say |
| 18:24.32 | Hanuman | maybe its the person who was DOS'ing SCO |
| 18:24.47 | Tenebram | which also wasn't me, by the way. |
| 18:24.49 | Dan | they can hit the ports and not get a connection |
| 18:24.56 | Hanuman | Windows sucks for getting info about a person |
| 18:25.01 | Hanuman | Dan: they are connected |
| 18:25.04 | Dan | oh |
| 18:26.52 | Hanuman | TCP server01:ldap pc3-98.messe.eunet.no:49006 ESTABLISHED |
| 18:27.07 | Hanuman | not sure what ESTABLISHED means... |
| 18:27.39 | Dan | wheee, I found the DBD-mysql port |
| 18:27.50 | Tenebram | Oh, ESTABLISHED means "definitely not suspicious" |
| 18:27.55 | Hanuman | cool |
| 18:28.02 | Dan | boo, it's not working |
| 18:28.05 | Hanuman | Tenebram: so *you* say ;) |
| 18:28.32 | Dan | I've only known this Tenebram guy for five minutes and I'm already believing the opposite of anything he says. |
| 18:28.33 | Dan | ;) |
| 18:28.46 | Tenebram | Hey, I'm a trustworthy guy! |
| 18:28.53 | Tenebram | What reason would I have to lie to you? |
| 18:29.14 | Tenebram | Gah, you Utah types... always so untrusting... |
| 18:29.29 | Hanuman | Tenebram: you're from Norway, aren't you? |
| 18:30.01 | Dan | bah, Jayce is away. anyone know how to uninstall and then reinstall a module from cpan? |
| 18:30.10 | Tenebram | I am SO not from Norway. |
| 18:30.16 | Tenebram | I'm from right here in Utah. |
| 18:30.18 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@byu147158wks.byu.edu) |
| 18:30.20 | Tenebram | Born in Provo. |
| 18:30.30 | Hanuman | Dan: I think you can just do a force install and it will install over the previous version |
| 18:30.35 | Dan | cool |
| 18:30.37 | Hanuman | I was born in American Fark |
| 18:30.55 | Hanuman | but I claim Texas as my home |
| 18:31.04 | Tenebram | Gah... Texas... |
| 18:31.09 | Tenebram | Land of the infernal heat... |
| 18:31.12 | sjansen | But he lives in Virginia. |
| 18:31.18 | Hanuman | mmm...heat.... |
| 18:31.25 | Tenebram | Heat bad! |
| 18:31.27 | Hanuman | and I used to live in Indonesia |
| 18:31.29 | sjansen | I like the Texas hill country. |
| 18:31.35 | Hanuman | I was a missionary in Thailand |
| 18:31.49 | Hanuman | I lived 5 years in Ohio |
| 18:31.56 | Hanuman | Texas is still home, though |
| 18:32.06 | Hanuman | Utah is second in my heart, though |
| 18:32.10 | Dan | I spoke Hmong on my mission |
| 18:32.21 | Tenebram | Bleh, Utah in the summer is already much too hot for me. I couldn't take Texas. |
| 18:32.37 | Hanuman | Dan: cool - we studied in the same area as the Mongs |
| 18:32.48 | Hanuman | do you know the crab song (I think that's what it's called)? |
| 18:33.03 | Hanuman | sorry - s/Mong/Hmong/ |
| 18:33.07 | Dan | Hmong ;) |
| 18:35.32 | Hanuman | This is just sick - I'm using a VB program to monitor ports on our Windows machine |
| 18:35.53 | Tenebram | that IS sick. |
| 18:35.57 | Tenebram | even sicker than me. |
| 18:36.07 | Tenebram | I'm not very sick though, it's just a slight cough. |
| 18:36.20 | Tenebram | It's worse today than yesterday, and it will prbably be even worse tomorrow. |
| 18:36.22 | Dan | ever read The Hot Zone? |
| 18:36.39 | Tenebram | nope |
| 18:36.41 | Hanuman | never read it |
| 18:36.54 | Dan | good book |
| 18:36.57 | Dan | (speaking of being sick) |
| 18:37.01 | Dan | it's about ebola |
| 18:37.04 | Dan | true story |
| 18:37.13 | Tenebram | actually, I might have... |
| 18:37.20 | Tenebram | I remember reading A book about ebola |
| 18:37.26 | Tenebram | but I can't recall the details. |
| 18:38.18 | hans | i read an article in reader's digest about ebola |
| 18:38.24 | neybar_work | Dan: try recompile from cpan, it will "the make/test/install cycle with brute force over all installed dynamically loadable extensions (aka XS modules) with 'force' in effect." |
| 18:38.57 | Dan | mmkay |
| 18:39.04 | Dan | recompile DBD::mysql |
| 18:39.04 | Dan | ? |
| 18:39.12 | neybar_work | just recompile() |
| 18:39.13 | Dan | I'm getting this: |
| 18:39.14 | Dan | Stop in /usr/home/chris/.cpan/build/DBD-mysql-2.9003. |
| 18:39.14 | Dan | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:39.14 | Dan | Running make test |
| 18:39.14 | Dan | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:39.14 | Dan | Running make install |
| 18:39.14 | neybar_work | no args |
| 18:39.15 | Dan | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:39.19 | Dan | k |
| 18:39.24 | Dan | from within cpan though right? |
| 18:39.27 | neybar_work | yes |
| 18:39.41 | Dan | k |
| 18:39.49 | Dan | then force install DBD::mysql |
| 18:39.57 | Dan | eh? |
| 18:39.58 | Hanuman | neybar_work: I wasn't familiar w/ recompile - is that in the help for cpan? |
| 18:40.09 | neybar_work | yes |
| 18:40.17 | Hanuman | must not have ever paid attention |
| 18:40.24 | Dan | do those several lines of error messages I copied and pasted help at all? |
| 18:40.29 | neybar_work | that recompile will force install and XS bases modules |
| 18:40.46 | Hanuman | why not just do force install? |
| 18:41.18 | Dan | I did, that's what it gave me. Those errors. |
| 18:41.20 | neybar_work | you can do that too, but with as many changes that Dan mentioned, recompile will iterate through all XS modules |
| 18:41.36 | Dan | what are XS modules |
| 18:41.37 | Dan | ? |
| 18:42.23 | Hanuman | ah... |
| 18:42.40 | neybar_work | maybe drop to the shell and try the "perl Makefile.pl && make && make install" process manually, it might be looking for an environmental variable or something |
| 18:42.48 | Hanuman | Dan: XS modules are the modules that communicate w/ the C libraries |
| 18:42.53 | neybar_work | XS modules use... ditto |
| 18:43.44 | Dan | cool |
| 18:43.50 | Dan | I did it from the shell too, using ports |
| 18:43.54 | Dan | it gave the same error either way |
| 18:44.14 | neybar_work | did perl Makefile.pl run w/o errors? |
| 18:44.25 | Dan | haven't tried it yet |
| 18:44.28 | Dan | it's still running compile |
| 18:44.36 | Dan | compile seems to be going well though |
| 18:44.39 | neybar_work | ok |
| 18:47.21 | Dan | I'm thinking that someday I should read my Essential System Administration book from O'Reilly |
| 18:48.53 | Hanuman | Forget the VB Script - I'm switching to ethereal |
| 18:49.09 | Tenebram | Yay! |
| 18:52.16 | Dan | what's ethereal? |
| 18:52.36 | Hanuman | Dan: it's a port monitor program |
| 18:52.40 | Dan | is that the dealybob that monitors traffic on a windows machine and... yeah |
| 18:52.52 | Hanuman | and Linux - it's Open-source |
| 18:52.53 | Dan | I was going to use it to write a command-line version of a chat program I was using |
| 18:52.54 | Dan | but |
| 18:52.55 | Dan | didn't |
| 18:56.22 | Hanuman | I love agreeing to the GPL in Linux |
| 18:56.26 | Hanuman | s/Linux/Windows/ |
| 18:59.49 | hans | question for yall |
| 19:00.58 | hans | When I bring up my interface (dhcp, with pump) it apparently registers with a dynamic dns setup on the dhcp server |
| 19:01.28 | hans | (the -h option to pump) |
| 19:02.00 | hans | but after a day or so that expires, and although I maintain my dhcp ip address the hostname falls off the face of dns. |
| 19:02.11 | hans | if I restart pump, it comes right back |
| 19:02.11 | Dan | weird |
| 19:02.52 | sjansen | Sounds like a bug in the DHCP server to me. |
| 19:02.57 | hans | heh, well I could do that |
| 19:04.38 | Dan | man, the more I learn, the more I don't know anything at all. |
| 19:06.07 | hans | oh great, now nasa has a flash site |
| 19:06.08 | neybar_work | that's why I love Linux |
| 19:07.24 | Hanuman | hans: I noticed that yesterday, but refrained from thinking outloud |
| 19:07.32 | Hanuman | my mind was quiet yesterday |
| 19:07.49 | Hanuman | that is strange for NASA |
| 19:07.57 | Hanuman | must be their PR department doing that |
| 19:08.58 | Dan | is flash bad? |
| 19:09.01 | hans | oh it's probably a good thing - public like flashy sites and nasa has an opportunity with all this mars stuff to be in the public eye positively |
| 19:09.11 | Dan | aside from not being viewable by text-only browsers |
| 19:09.19 | hans | Dan: that's why it's 'bad' |
| 19:09.22 | Dan | ja |
| 19:09.54 | hans | flash does what it does. I think it's a sort of dead end. the shortcut that gets you where you want to be and keeps you from going further |
| 19:10.34 | hans | the internet is at its heart about information. flash is about presentation. we all know the two often don't mix well. flash is just a presentation engine for the information parking lot |
| 19:10.54 | hans | </soapbox> |
| 19:11.31 | Dan | you can use flash as an api |
| 19:11.43 | Dan | to build dynamic thingies |
| 19:11.48 | hans | an afterthought, but true |
| 19:11.50 | Dan | which is kind of cool |
| 19:12.00 | Dan | it doesn't fix the problem |
| 19:12.05 | Dan | but it's still kind of cool |
| 19:12.22 | hans | yeah, although for the most part svg is the better solution in those cases |
| 19:12.29 | Hanuman | figured out what it was that was connecting to our server |
| 19:12.32 | Dan | what's svg? |
| 19:12.47 | hans | think of it as the open standard version of flash |
| 19:13.02 | hans | and like most open standards it is less mature. :( but it is quite nice |
| 19:13.25 | Hanuman | KDE is going to use svg for it's icons (so I hear) |
| 19:13.37 | hans | actually it does graphics and animation quite well. Adobe has a nice plugin for it. the area it lacks from flash is sound, although there is partial support |
| 19:13.40 | hans | gnome already does |
| 19:13.54 | Hanuman | hans: really? I didn't realize that? |
| 19:13.59 | Hanuman | as of which version? |
| 19:14.07 | hans | the latest fancy one |
| 19:14.21 | Hanuman | Maybe I'll have to switch back to gnome |
| 19:14.41 | Hanuman | The thing I don't like about gnome is it's lack of desktop-configuration options |
| 19:14.52 | sjansen | Gnome already uses svg as an option. |
| 19:14.54 | Hanuman | and the fact it tries to mimick Windows |
| 19:15.04 | hans | and kde doesn't? |
| 19:15.28 | sjansen | Gnome is trying to simplify. |
| 19:15.44 | hans | simple is good. it's the one reason I don't use fvwm |
| 19:15.48 | Hanuman | kde is configurable, though - you can have the panel bar up on top to make it work like a Mac, you can configure your shortcuts - much more that can be done |
| 19:15.55 | sjansen | They make some things Windows-like to ease corporate transition. But there big push is getting rid of "crack". |
| 19:16.00 | Hanuman | kde is simple, too by default - it's just configurable |
| 19:16.22 | sjansen | Of course, some people want to keep it, so the cool things just get hidden. You have to use gconf (kinda like editing your registry). |
| 19:16.56 | Hanuman | sjansen: really? I'll have to look into gconf then |
| 19:16.58 | sjansen | Them as are power users, get to keep the power. Them as aren't, don't get scared by the options. |
| 19:17.16 | Hanuman | sjansen: that's just fine - as long as there's a way for me to customize how I want it |
| 19:17.22 | sjansen | gconf-editor specifically |
| 19:17.36 | Hanuman | okay - I will remember that |
| 19:17.55 | sjansen | For what ever reason, the UI people say that an "Advance Options" button is verboten. |
| 19:17.59 | Hanuman | I like gnomes look and feel better than kde - I just didn't like how it forced you into your configuration |
| 19:18.25 | sjansen | I think they're up in the night, but over all I appreciate everything Sun has contributed. |
| 19:23.30 | Dan | everyone clicks the advanced options button |
| 19:23.36 | Dan | 'cause everyone thinks they're an advanced user |
| 19:23.39 | Dan | and then they break things |
| 19:23.47 | Dan | and then call me for help |
| 19:23.52 | Dan | that's why it's verboten |
| 19:25.12 | Dan | cripes, that recompile is still going |
| 19:26.37 | Dan | yay it's done |
| 19:27.39 | Dan | and... it fixed nothing |
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| 20:24.40 | hans | brailsmt: ping |
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| 21:12.11 | Mecworks|Work | Anyone near to Jayce^ that can poke him? |
| 21:14.50 | sjansen | Jayce^ works from home usually. He mention to me awhile ago that he had to go somewhere. |
| 21:15.20 | sjansen | *sigh* I really do know how to spek Engrish. |
| 21:15.32 | Mecworks|Work | 8^ |
| 21:15.33 | Mecworks|Work | ) |
| 21:15.58 | Mecworks|Work | BTW, have you seen www.engrish.com? |
| 21:16.17 | Mecworks|Work | tensai: you might be interested as well. |
| 21:17.11 | tensai | Mecworks|Work: yes, I probably would. thx |
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| 21:32.29 | Hanuman | well I'm officially a geek now |
| 21:32.35 | hans | um, congrats |
| 21:32.40 | Hanuman | I have to get glasses for staring at the computer |
| 21:33.34 | Hanuman | I guess either that or get used to the voice on my Mac |
| 21:33.54 | hans | does that mean you're a geek, or that you're old? |
| 21:34.01 | Hanuman | probably both |
| 21:34.19 | Hanuman | although I'm not *that* old |
| 21:34.35 | sjansen | Nah, just old. If getting glasses made you a geek, alot of people would be smarter than they really are. |
| 21:35.40 | hans | or maybe it means your screen is too small? or dirty? |
| 21:35.44 | Hanuman | Okay - but could you say they make me a nerd? (I want to have some stereotype from them!) |
| 21:35.54 | hans | how about "4-eyes"? |
| 21:36.01 | Hanuman | that will work |
| 21:36.20 | Hanuman | Maybe it's my 1600x1200 on a 12" screen that's doing it to me |
| 21:36.28 | hans | ouch |
| 21:36.48 | Hanuman | nah - I don't do that any more - it could be part of what caused it, though |
| 21:36.54 | byron | 1600x1200 on a 12" screen? That sounds heavenly |
| 21:36.55 | hans | odd, I've never heard this song |
| 21:36.59 | hans | lol |
| 21:37.07 | Hanuman | well, 15" screen - I was exagerating |
| 21:37.15 | hans | byron: what are you running? 800x600 on a 2" screen? |
| 21:37.16 | Hanuman | forgive my spelling |
| 21:37.43 | HarleyPig | What about Tori? |
| 21:37.53 | byron | hans: 1024x480 on a tiny screen... no one else can read it. |
| 21:38.25 | HarleyPig | byron: You don't have to worry about shoulder surfers. |
| 21:39.07 | byron | HarleyPig: shoulder surfers nothing, people can't even sit down at my computer and use it |
| 21:39.23 | HarleyPig | :D |
| 21:47.15 | Jayce^ | well, heard the first song from the new tears for fears album today... |
| 21:47.24 | hans | and? |
| 21:47.47 | sjansen | Who was looking for Jayce^? |
| 21:47.48 | Jayce^ | actually didn't like it that much :( |
| 21:48.09 | Jayce^ | you. :) |
| 21:48.12 | sjansen | I know how you feel. I was sorely disappointed by the newest Toby Keith. |
| 21:48.47 | sjansen | Nah, somebody wanted to do you physical harm as I recall. |
| 21:49.53 | Jayce^ | probably neybar, he has been asking for a beating for a while :) |
| 21:49.55 | sjansen | Yeah, I know, Toby's alot better. |
| 21:51.17 | Jayce^ | thbbtt.. |
| 21:51.36 | hans | it was Mecworks|Work |
| 21:52.04 | hans | what's that? toby keith is a gambler? figures |
| 21:52.21 | hans | would probably even bet his beer and dog if he was out of other bettables. |
| 21:52.30 | hans | (like his girlfriend?) |
| 21:55.38 | sjansen | The old Country stereotype is <impersonation person="valley girl">, like, sooooo</impersonation> tired. |
| 21:55.51 | Jayce^ | but yet sooooo accurate :) |
| 21:56.06 | hans | now I have to think. :( |
| 21:56.14 | sjansen | ~whaleslap Country haters |
| 21:56.19 | | ACTION slaps Country haters upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 21:56.31 | Jayce^ | ~whaleslap Country lovers |
| 21:56.36 | | ACTION slaps Country lovers upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 21:56.42 | Hanuman | ~whaleslap all music lovers |
| 21:56.45 | | ACTION slaps all music lovers upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
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| 21:57.28 | HarleyPig | ~whaleslap everyone who whaleslaps |
| 21:57.32 | | ACTION slaps everyone who whaleslaps upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 21:57.48 | Jayce^ | HarleyPigslap ? :) |
| 21:57.53 | HarleyPig | :D |
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