| 00:09.06 | sjansen | The DoS is real. Linux has no future on the desktop. BSD is freer than GPL. Some other stuff. |
| 00:09.41 | byron_ | sjansen: for some reason I don't believe anything you said there :) |
| 00:09.48 | byron_ | what did the sco guy have to say? |
| 00:10.20 | sjansen | Bradipo: Was I off the mark? |
| 00:13.17 | byron_ | well if that's the case I guess it's time to work on my FreeBSD skills |
| 00:16.14 | Jayce^ | well, Bradipo has some differing beliefs than many of us on linux on the desktop, and the bsd vs. gpl idea :) |
| 00:16.31 | Jayce^ | but yes, the dos part was right |
| 00:17.34 | byron_ | Bradipo works for sco? |
| 00:19.14 | sjansen | "Note that Microsoft Internet Explorer users who have the default "smart errors" feature turned on may not see your useful custom error pages. One workaround for this feature is to have more that 512 bytes of data in your error pages." If that's true.... |
| 00:20.33 | Jayce^ | byron_, yeah.. |
| 00:20.57 | Jayce^ | interesting sjansen.. that size does it.. |
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| 00:44.13 | HarleyPig | How do I get the last insert id from a mysql db handle? |
| 00:44.20 | HarleyPig | last_insert_id doesn't seem to be doing it. |
| 00:46.09 | HarleyPig | neither does $sth->{insertid} |
| 00:46.34 | *** join/#utah spr5 (~spr5@auth11-2.ycell.octelecom.net) |
| 00:47.59 | HarleyPig | Ok. I'm an idiot. it's mysql_insertid. |
| 00:54.50 | Bradipo | sjansen: I have no idea if you were on the mark. |
| 00:54.55 | Bradipo | Everyone has different marks. |
| 00:55.01 | Bradipo | The question is, were you true to your mark? |
| 00:57.23 | Bradipo | Jayce^: I do use Linux/BSD on my desktops but I am also not the typical non-technical user. |
| 00:58.01 | Bradipo | Many of you are also not the typical non-technical user either and it makes sense for you that it might actually work on the desktop. |
| 00:58.15 | Bradipo | And as I stated before, it does make sense in certain environments. |
| 00:58.29 | Bradipo | Linux as a workstation is great. |
| 00:58.47 | Bradipo | For labs, for kiosks, for development companies, etc... |
| 00:59.00 | bartw | for Darl... |
| 00:59.13 | Bradipo | It isn't good for folks that only know how to use Office and don't know how to find files using My Computer. |
| 00:59.45 | Bradipo | Not even Ransom knew how to use Linux. |
| 01:02.17 | Bradipo | Too bad byron_ left, he's missing all the discussion once again. |
| 01:02.26 | Hanuman | Bradipo: I agree with you up to a point - Linux workstations are great - Linux as a home desktop isn't there yet |
| 01:02.28 | Jayce^ | figures.. |
| 01:03.38 | Hanuman | For most people, especially workers, Windows is just as foreign as Linux is to them. |
| 01:03.56 | Hanuman | Many workers do not even have computers in their homes |
| 01:04.57 | Hanuman | I could use Linux on the desktop at work - I can't for many functions at home |
| 01:05.10 | Hanuman | there are too many apps that I need that haven't been created for Linux yet |
| 01:05.38 | Hanuman | That's why I use both at home |
| 01:06.00 | Hanuman | Jayce^: me neither - I just can't run everything I need to on Linux |
| 01:06.02 | Jayce^ | don't even have windows here.. |
| 01:06.10 | Hanuman | I'd prefer to run Linux on everything if I could |
| 01:06.15 | Bradipo | Hanuman: I think linux fits very well into certain industries. |
| 01:06.19 | sjansen | Wish I knew why Debian requires Python with a postgresql install. |
| 01:06.44 | Bradipo | Like point of sales devices, industrial sites and likewise. |
| 01:06.47 | Hanuman | Jayce^: yes, but I bet you sacrifice a bit to be able to use only Linux |
| 01:06.55 | Jayce^ | like what.. |
| 01:07.00 | Hanuman | Halo? |
| 01:07.08 | Hanuman | other games |
| 01:07.14 | Jayce^ | if I really wanted halo, I could play it on an xbox.. |
| 01:07.18 | Bradipo | Hanuman: I believe he does to, but he would never admit it. :-) |
| 01:07.19 | Hanuman | My TV card works better in Windows |
| 01:07.21 | Jayce^ | but there are better ones |
| 01:07.30 | Bradipo | My TV card works alright in linux. |
| 01:07.42 | Bradipo | I used to watch TV on my linux desktop (until we moved and I haven't set it up). |
| 01:07.53 | Hanuman | Mine works well under MythTV, but in a smaller window so I can watch while I'm working it doesn't |
| 01:07.56 | Jayce^ | I dont' have one yet, but I know of many I can use in linux |
| 01:08.06 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, same driver. |
| 01:08.09 | Hanuman | My Windows TV player has transparnecy to it so I can run apps under it |
| 01:08.35 | Bradipo | Interesting. |
| 01:08.43 | Bradipo | So you can see your xterm underneath the TV? |
| 01:08.49 | Hanuman | Jayce^: it uses different sound-sources, the way my system is set up |
| 01:09.03 | Hanuman | Bradipo: well, it being Windows I can see putty underneath the TV |
| 01:09.10 | Hanuman | Linux has yet to have such an application |
| 01:09.14 | emcnabb | fun toy alert: http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~dinoj/smartcard/javaring.html |
| 01:09.22 | emcnabb | I have the ring |
| 01:09.24 | Hanuman | until ATI ports their MMC over to Linux, which I believe they're working on |
| 01:09.40 | emcnabb | my dad got it long ago at java world |
| 01:09.45 | emcnabb | he never used it |
| 01:09.47 | Jayce^ | or just don't buy an ati :) |
| 01:09.48 | emcnabb | now I have it |
| 01:10.07 | Hanuman | Jayce^: find me an NVidia All-in-one-type device and I won't |
| 01:10.11 | emcnabb | I guess it has a processor in it (pretty much a smart card) |
| 01:10.22 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, they do have one, have had it for a while |
| 01:10.40 | Hanuman | Jayce^: which one is it? I've been trying to find one |
| 01:10.43 | Jayce^ | the latest version is a little old, based off a 5200 Fx I believe |
| 01:10.57 | Hanuman | Is the software that comes with it very good? |
| 01:11.12 | Jayce^ | dunno, I dont' use one, nor do I run windows |
| 01:11.13 | Hanuman | See that's the problem - xawtv just isn't a very good tv app |
| 01:12.20 | Jayce^ | still waiting to see what I'm missing out on.. |
| 01:13.25 | sjansen | Ugh. Stock Postgresql is listening on TCP. |
| 01:13.50 | sjansen | I'm starting to question the security of a stock Debian system. |
| 01:13.51 | bytheway | Hmm, it didn't used to |
| 01:14.25 | Newsome | emcnabb, iButton is actually a pretty cool thing. It's considered a one-wire interface (though it also has a ground wire). It's pretty cool. |
| 01:15.03 | bytheway | aah, I don't know about the debian pg package. |
| 01:15.19 | emcnabb | Newsome, have you ever played with one before? |
| 01:15.24 | sjansen | Well, pg_hba blocks everything but localhost, so it isn't quite as bad as I first thought. But I still don't like it. |
| 01:15.30 | emcnabb | hello bytheway |
| 01:15.39 | bytheway | no, pg comes with tcp pretty locked down. |
| 01:15.49 | bytheway | even if it is enabled. |
| 01:15.52 | bytheway | hello emcnabb |
| 01:15.58 | emcnabb | http://linbutton.sourceforge.net/ |
| 01:16.00 | sjansen | I'm talking Debian's stock postgresql package. |
| 01:16.02 | Bradipo | pg comes that way. |
| 01:16.02 | Newsome | No, but I've looked into them a bit. |
| 01:16.04 | emcnabb | this is the only thing I can find |
| 01:16.05 | Bradipo | But debians pg may not. |
| 01:16.21 | emcnabb | Newsome, I have it hooked up to my serial port right now |
| 01:16.28 | bytheway | which postgres version are you installing? (just curious) |
| 01:16.29 | emcnabb | the only thing I can get out is a . :-) |
| 01:16.45 | Bradipo | If it's stable it is 7.2.2 or something. |
| 01:17.01 | Newsome | The really cool thing about it is the fact that only needs two connections to communicate. Ground and Data/Power. |
| 01:17.20 | emcnabb | yeah, it's a really good idea |
| 01:17.35 | Hanuman | Bradipo: also, with the ATI MMC I can minimize the TV and TV plays as my wallpaper |
| 01:17.57 | Newsome | emcnabb: have you stored anything onto it yet? or are you just trying to see if there's anything interesting on it? |
| 01:18.12 | emcnabb | Newsome, I'm just trying to see if I can do anything with it |
| 01:18.25 | emcnabb | I have no clue where to even start |
| 01:18.35 | Hanuman | I can also have picture in picture, with one small window showing one channel, and another small window showing the other, all while I'm doing other work at the same time |
| 01:19.42 | Hanuman | Jayce^: not just the TV, but my scanner software is superior to what Linux can provide |
| 01:20.07 | Newsome | hmm. so it connects to your serial port? did it come with anything? |
| 01:20.11 | emcnabb | http://www.rcpt.to/keymgr/applet.html |
| 01:20.19 | Hanuman | And I have yet to find a home budgeting software solution that beats Quicken |
| 01:20.28 | emcnabb | yeah, I have serial reader with it, that's about it |
| 01:21.01 | Hanuman | Not to mention PAF 5.0 |
| 01:21.16 | Hanuman | Gospelink |
| 01:21.56 | Hanuman | MusicMatch Jukebox, and all my kids games |
| 01:22.26 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, I love sane with mine.. |
| 01:22.40 | Jayce^ | especially with saned, network sharing of my scanner |
| 01:22.43 | Newsome | emcnabb: hmm. I can look at it later. |
| 01:22.45 | Hanuman | Jayce^: yes, but does your scanner have an auto-photo feeder with software to manage it? |
| 01:22.53 | bytheway | I've heard rumors gospelink may be moving to a web-based subscription model |
| 01:22.55 | Hanuman | sane won't handle that |
| 01:23.00 | Jayce^ | mine doesn't have that feature.. |
| 01:23.22 | sjansen | But it also doesn't have an auto-virus feeder. |
| 01:23.23 | hans | ~lart MusicMatch Jukebox |
| 01:23.27 | emcnabb | Newsome, I'll let you know if I get it working |
| 01:23.49 | sjansen | The fact is, I'm a programmer at heart, not a sysadmin. My Linux box is just less frustrating. |
| 01:24.06 | bytheway | and gospelink should be cross-platform cross-browser. (it won't be IE only) |
| 01:24.18 | Jayce^ | gnucash (people who've taken accounting hate non double entry hacks) |
| 01:24.40 | Jayce^ | besides, if I want to use quicken, my wife has it on her mac. |
| 01:24.56 | Jayce^ | I can use gramps (or others) instead of paf (and do) |
| 01:25.05 | Jayce^ | no way I'm touching music match. |
| 01:25.17 | sjansen | I jumped ship because Windows was giving me too many head aches. This was back in the 98 days, and I know alot has changed, but I don't have time to learn Windows as well as I now know Linux. |
| 01:25.34 | sjansen | Plus, I love being able to SSH into a locked machine and fix the problem cleanly. :-) |
| 01:25.51 | Jayce^ | I thought I needed to have an extra windows partition, until it died and I never found myself needing to reinstall |
| 01:26.15 | Hanuman | Jayce^: Mac is an excellent OS for the home desktop |
| 01:26.43 | sjansen | I've tried maintaing multiple systems. I just don't have the time and interest. Linux does everything I want, end of story. |
| 01:26.44 | Tenebram | Same here, Jayce |
| 01:27.04 | Tenebram | yeah, same here |
| 01:27.13 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, and it plays nicely with my linux boxen... cups, nfs, etc.. |
| 01:28.07 | Hanuman | Jayce^: you also work from home, so your linux machine is used more for work purposes |
| 01:28.25 | Jayce^ | umm, yeah.. something like that :D |
| 01:28.48 | Hanuman | I'm just saying Linux makes a great workstation - it's not ready for the average home desktop user yet |
| 01:29.15 | sjansen | Jayce^ just pretends to work. He actually subcontracts to China and spends the day gaming. |
| 01:29.24 | hans | heh |
| 01:29.27 | hans | I need to do that, I think |
| 01:29.28 | Hanuman | lol |
| 01:29.36 | Jayce^ | dangit, you found me out |
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| 03:33.22 | Hanuman | man I love mod_perl |
| 03:40.44 | Hanuman | Man - DBD::Mysql's Makefile has some serious issues - at least the CPAN module does |
| 03:40.51 | Hanuman | Jayce^: have you had similar problems? |
| 03:54.42 | Hanuman | well, looks like Bundle::DBI took care of it for me |
| 04:05.20 | Newsome | The Order to Compel came through! getting it transcribed right now, and it should be up soon. |
| 04:20.49 | Newsome | anyone know if there is a Gentoo package for Acrobat Reader? |
| 04:30.22 | Hanuman | if I smart relay a domain through my ISP and the ISP requires authentication, anyone know if this is possible through sendmail? |
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| 05:17.12 | tensai | hans: it's bubbling! |
| 05:19.43 | Hanuman | cool - I set up a "smart" relay w/ authentication for just e-mails going out to aol users! |
| 05:19.52 | Hanuman | I love playing with e-mail servers |
| 05:20.11 | tensai | what server is it? |
| 05:20.12 | Hanuman | I can now send e-mail to my parents |
| 05:20.21 | Hanuman | tensai: it's my home e-mail server |
| 05:20.27 | Hanuman | sendmail |
| 05:20.47 | tensai | that's one I've never dared tackle |
| 05:20.55 | Hanuman | It's basically forwarding all mail to *@aol.com to my ISP's smtp server |
| 05:21.02 | Hanuman | everything else gets relayed directly |
| 05:21.13 | Hanuman | it actually wasn't that hard as soon as I found some good docs on it |
| 05:21.18 | tensai | why not just forward everything to your ISP? |
| 05:21.27 | Hanuman | because I hate trusting my ISP |
| 05:21.40 | Hanuman | it's also one more step that doesn't need to be taken |
| 05:21.49 | tensai | fair enough |
| 05:22.55 | Bradipo | Anyone know of a good wireless ISP in SLC? |
| 05:23.14 | Hanuman | I don't - wish I could find one here in VA, though |
| 05:23.26 | Hanuman | too many trees here |
| 05:24.33 | tensai | Sprint has something going I think. been too long since I've been in Utah |
| 05:25.33 | Hanuman | well, time for bed...good night guys |
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| 15:05.11 | Hanuman | Any spamassassin experts in the house? |
| 15:22.27 | emcnabb | Hanuman, what's up? |
| 15:22.50 | emcnabb | I use spamassassin and I went to the meeting the other night |
| 15:22.57 | emcnabb | does that make me an expert? ;-) |
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| 15:34.46 | sjansen | What the?! Debian creates the ssl.key 755. I don't care if it's fake or not, that's not good policy. |
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| 16:13.30 | Hanuman | emcnabb: I keep getting an error when salearn is run that says "Failed to create default user preference file //.spamassassin/user_prefs" |
| 16:13.45 | Hanuman | I'm guessing a variable isn't being set somewhere for the home directory |
| 16:19.08 | sjansen | How does one list the contents of debian package? |
| 16:22.47 | sjansen | dpkg -L |
| 16:35.02 | emcnabb | Hanuman, that's strange; so I assume all the permissions are right then? |
| 16:49.02 | Hanuman | emcnabb: I imagine so - it's being run from cron.daily |
| 16:49.10 | Hanuman | as root |
| 16:50.20 | Hanuman | The command it's running is: |
| 16:50.37 | Hanuman | sa-learn --ham --mbox "/home/jessestay/Ben's Letters" |
| 16:50.40 | Hanuman | (for example) |
| 16:50.48 | Hanuman | it's running a whole bunch of those in a row |
| 16:51.05 | Hanuman | on each mailbox that's ham, and then runs --spam on my spam boxes |
| 16:51.42 | emcnabb | so does it work if you just run the command outside of cron? |
| 16:52.10 | Hanuman | I think - let me try |
| 16:52.35 | Hanuman | yeah - it does work |
| 16:53.04 | emcnabb | I think you might have to have sa-learn be suid root |
| 16:53.08 | emcnabb | it runs as cron |
| 16:53.11 | emcnabb | right? |
| 16:53.14 | Hanuman | yeah |
| 16:53.17 | Hanuman | hmm... |
| 16:53.18 | emcnabb | I had a similar the other day |
| 16:53.23 | emcnabb | problem |
| 16:54.04 | Hanuman | is there a way in cron or from shell to set the suid? |
| 16:55.16 | emcnabb | chmod u+s /path/to/sa-learn |
| 16:55.22 | emcnabb | be careful with that though |
| 16:55.52 | emcnabb | now anyone should be able to run it as root |
| 16:56.18 | emcnabb | someone in here might want to correct me if this is a super bad thing to do |
| 17:01.15 | Hanuman | emcnabb: actually, I just figured out how to set the user preferences file - I'll just do that |
| 17:01.32 | Hanuman | sa-learn -p "/path/to/userprefsfile" |
| 17:02.26 | Hanuman | actually, sa-learn --prefs-file=file |
| 17:03.04 | emcnabb | Hanuman, cool |
| 17:12.03 | hans | sjansen: submit a bug report to the maintainer |
| 17:12.25 | hans | tensai: sweet! |
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| 17:23.50 | sjansen | hans: On closer inspection, I was reading things wrong. |
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| 17:48.10 | bonez39 | anyone on now? |
| 17:48.54 | byron | sure |
| 17:49.36 | sjansen | kinda |
| 18:38.29 | Hanuman | where's Jayce when you need him? |
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| 18:40.25 | sjansen | Probably scoping out the RoTK line early. |
| 18:40.48 | Hanuman | is that started already? |
| 18:41.15 | sjansen | Nah, they won't let anyone line up until 9am day of. Threaten to have security remove anyone before then. |
| 19:03.19 | hans | sjansen: and thank goodness. I wouldn't want to sleep overnight. |
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| 19:06.45 | Hanuman | How cold is it up there? |
| 19:28.30 | neybar | not too bad. about 45 |
| 19:30.10 | emcnabb | 0 Kelvin |
| 19:31.46 | jakea | ummmm.... |
| 19:43.41 | sjansen | jakea: emcnabb is only talking about his own heart |
| 19:46.54 | emcnabb | ~lart sjansen |
| 19:47.01 | emcnabb | ahhh, that's better |
| 20:16.57 | Hanuman | it's in the 30's here |
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| 23:30.56 | emcnabb | steghide is cool! |
| 23:45.59 | emcnabb | I thought UML support was built into the 2.6 kernel |
| 23:54.39 | sjansen | It's supposed to be, although a little old. |
| 23:54.49 | sjansen | My understanding is it's still best to patch the kernel. |