| 00:00.15 | *** join/#utah wd0 (~wd0@c-24-10-167-198.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:00.40 | wd0 | Anybody here? |
| 00:00.45 | Tenebram | nope |
| 00:00.48 | Tenebram | nobody at all |
| 00:01.15 | wd0 | That sucks. |
| 00:01.39 | wd0 | Wondering if anybody knows of a way for me to get my gnome-terminal to work. |
| 00:01.49 | wd0 | it just sits with the cursor in the top right. |
| 00:01.56 | wd0 | however KDE terminal works. |
| 00:02.07 | wd0 | and now .. I don't want a "whydonchajust" |
| 00:02.10 | wd0 | :-D |
| 00:02.25 | sjansen | Try moving away .bashrc, .bash_profile, and .profile |
| 00:02.28 | Tenebram | I really have no idea |
| 00:02.42 | sjansen | Sounds like it's getting stuck source profile information. |
| 00:02.57 | wd0 | Interesting .. |
| 00:03.09 | wd0 | brb |
| 00:03.11 | wd0 | going to try it .. |
| 00:05.14 | *** join/#utah wd0 (~wd0@c-24-10-167-198.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:05.19 | wd0 | No dice. . |
| 00:05.41 | wd0 | It works in KDE, but not in gnome. |
| 00:05.54 | Tenebram | now that's odd |
| 00:06.03 | wd0 | I've tried to chmod /dev/console as well. |
| 00:06.22 | wd0 | xterm won't work either, so I konw its not gnome term. |
| 00:06.41 | wd0 | if I could run STRACE to find out whats up, it would help. .. |
| 00:06.48 | wd0 | but I cant open a shell to do so .. LOL |
| 00:08.00 | tensai | can you log in on tty1? |
| 00:09.01 | sjansen | wd0: Sure you can. Start gnome-terminal from the kde terminal. |
| 00:09.44 | sjansen | How about if you uncheck the "update utmp/wtmp"? |
| 00:10.18 | wd0 | Where's that at? |
| 00:10.53 | wd0 | yah, I can login to tty1 |
| 00:10.54 | wd0 | and 2 |
| 00:10.58 | wd0 | etc. |
| 00:11.37 | wd0 | 1 sec .. BRB |
| 00:11.42 | wd0 | going to strace it in kde. |
| 00:11.59 | tensai | you could log in on tty1, set $DISPLAY=:0 and run strace gnome-terminal there |
| 00:12.15 | tensai | if you can do it from a kde terminal that'll be easier, tho |
| 00:14.55 | wd0 | Ok |
| 00:19.26 | wd0 | its polling on something every second ... |
| 00:19.33 | wd0 | like its waiting for a response and not getting one.. |
| 00:19.37 | wd0 | interesting ... |
| 00:19.51 | wd0 | I don't have enough screen and backbuffer to find what it is. |
| 00:19.55 | wd0 | time for KDE. |
| 00:22.15 | *** join/#utah wd0 (~wd0@c-24-10-167-198.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:22.18 | wd0 | Ok |
| 00:22.32 | wd0 | "resource temporarily unavailable" |
| 00:22.51 | wd0 | after ioctl |
| 00:24.51 | sjansen | wd0: It's under Edit > Current Profile ... > Title and Commands |
| 00:25.38 | hans | dagnabit |
| 00:25.59 | sjansen | shuckty ho dunk doorey |
| 00:26.12 | hans | shopko and walmart both sold out |
| 00:26.19 | sjansen | Ah, man. |
| 00:26.23 | sjansen | I didn't expect that. |
| 00:26.34 | hans | me either. I could have walked to shopko this morning if I'd thought they would sell out |
| 00:26.49 | Jayce^ | hans, you try circuit city.. |
| 00:30.08 | hans | ok, circuit city has some. "uh, plenty" |
| 00:30.27 | Jayce^ | dunno |
| 00:30.30 | hans | 24.whatever, they price match if the other store has it in stock. guess that's $2 loss for laziness |
| 00:30.30 | Jayce^ | they did the pricematching |
| 00:30.42 | Jayce^ | costco should have it in stock |
| 00:31.16 | hans | what was their price? |
| 00:31.55 | Jayce^ | not sure |
| 00:32.32 | sjansen | hans: I can go find out for you. |
| 00:33.27 | hans | sjansen: are you going there? I can just call... |
| 00:34.39 | sjansen | If they have it, I'd consider going. |
| 00:35.14 | hans | i'll call. |
| 00:35.33 | hans | sjansen: would you be willing to pick one up for me? I will give you a check and a piece of fresh-baked sourdough bread. :) |
| 00:36.00 | sjansen | Sounds like a good deal. |
| 00:36.09 | sjansen | I need to get out of the house. Tired of playing with Java. |
| 00:36.10 | Hanuman | hans: check the web for costco - that's where I got it from |
| 00:36.18 | Jayce^ | what's their price, just for info? |
| 00:36.23 | Hanuman | Man this guy's code is terrible - he doesn't even use strict! |
| 00:36.54 | Jayce^ | ewww.. |
| 00:36.58 | Jayce^ | matt's scripts ? :) |
| 00:36.59 | sjansen | Who uses strict? |
| 00:37.17 | sjansen | Perl wa meant to be as unreadable and unpredictable as possible. |
| 00:38.16 | sjansen | Like C. "I didn't initialize the variable because I _wanted_ the side effect." "Sure you can fit a float in an int, what do you think memcpy was invented for anyway?" |
| 00:39.04 | hans | costco in stock. 24.79 |
| 00:39.30 | torriem | You poor slave of the MPAA. |
| 00:39.58 | sjansen | s/slave/slaves/ |
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| 00:40.16 | wd02 | Ok .. |
| 00:40.16 | torriem | That's what I meant to type. Thanks. |
| 00:40.32 | wd02 | it looks like my problem is a permissions problem. |
| 00:40.52 | wd02 | if I run gnome-terminal as root and export my dispaly to 0, it works great. |
| 00:40.57 | hans | torriem: at least some of them are from new zealand :) |
| 00:41.03 | wd02 | problem is, I have no idea what it's choking on. |
| 00:41.05 | torriem | How true. |
| 00:41.22 | sjansen | wd02: Did you try the utmp/wtmp? |
| 00:42.29 | sjansen | Oh well, gotta have your priorities straight. |
| 00:43.30 | Jayce^ | sjansen, but it's 4 dvd's :) |
| 00:45.23 | torriem | sjansen, hans: http://torriem.chem.byu.edu:81/~torriem/lotr.png |
| 00:48.29 | hans | nothing is happening |
| 00:48.35 | torriem | darn |
| 00:48.57 | torriem | stupid dns |
| 00:50.13 | torriem | http://students.cs.byu.edu/~torriem/lotr.png ? |
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| 00:51.51 | hans | :) |
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| 00:52.27 | torriem | That about sums up how I feel about all you guys drooling over the LOTR super special edition type stuff. |
| 00:52.30 | torriem | :) |
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| 01:00.44 | Hanuman | ack! I can't wait to rewrite this code - unfortunately I'm currently only getting paid to get it working again. It is impossible to find anything in here, and it was written for Windows! |
| 01:06.41 | Jayce^ | time to try another kernel :/ wish me luck.. |
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| 01:24.03 | hans | ahhhh. thank you stuart. :O) |
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| 01:28.17 | Jayce^ | we'll see if this one is a little more stable.. |
| 01:35.24 | sjansen | torriem: Who's selling that? It's not too late for me to exchange what I bought. |
| 01:36.50 | sjansen | ~slashdot |
| 01:37.35 | sjansen | Shucks. Not showing up. Slashdot proves the British are brain damaged: http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/11/18/2148253&mode=thread&tid=134 |
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| 02:02.45 | Jayce^ | http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=46153 |
| 02:03.46 | sjansen | How dare you interrupt my TTT watching with a SCO link! >:-| |
| 02:04.02 | Jayce^ | mcbride claims this is all about an IBM/Novell/Suse conspiracy against sco :) |
| 02:04.31 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:04.33 | Jayce^ | bwahahahahaha |
| 02:04.35 | Jayce^ | riiight |
| 02:04.43 | Jayce^ | clear cut my @$$ |
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| 02:05.38 | sjansen | Gandalf rocks! |
| 02:07.40 | Jayce^ | what part you at? |
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| 02:09.15 | adiposity | hey Bradipo |
| 02:09.19 | Bradipo | hello |
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| 02:13.16 | emcnabb | McBride: This is a David and Goliath battle. The might and sheer size of IBM against the legal stone that we have, and it just so happens we have a very good legal stone and we have a guy named David [Boies] carrying the slingshot. So we like our chances. |
| 02:15.15 | jakea | Ya, and did you see SCO now wants to do battle with Novell-Suse |
| 02:19.50 | sjansen | Jayce^: Just barely starting. |
| 02:19.56 | jakea | ah... LotR |
| 02:20.22 | sjansen | "We Dwarves are natural sprinters. Very dangerous over short distances." |
| 02:24.56 | jakea | My wife doesn't like it when I refer to the elves as vulcans |
| 02:27.09 | jakea | or romulans |
| 02:35.17 | jakea | And whenever my brother-in-law and I see Elrond (Hugo Weaving) in LotR, we say... "You hear that Mr. Anderson..." |
| 02:44.30 | Mecworks | Just picked up LOTRTT at Walmart in AF for $22.88 - the University Ave stores all were sold out |
| 02:49.25 | emcnabb | Message from syslogd@moccasin at Tue Nov 18 19:48:36 2003 ... |
| 02:49.25 | emcnabb | moccasin kernel: Assertion failure in __journal_remove_journal_head() at fs/jbd/journal.c:1733: "!jh->b_committed_data" |
| 02:49.30 | emcnabb | that's a crappy error to get |
| 02:49.33 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 03:06.20 | emcnabb | ~lart sjansen |
| 03:29.28 | brailsmt | here is a great quote to prove McBride is an idiot |
| 03:29.30 | brailsmt | CRN: Can suing customers, as you've said you will, be good for any vendor? |
| 03:29.31 | brailsmt | McBride: First it's not our customers. I would say we're suing end users. There are only two industries who use the term 'users,' computers and drugs. Not sure if there's a connection there. But the point is, we're not suing our customers. We are going after end users of Linux and I think there's a slight but significant difference there. |
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| 03:31.53 | brailsmt | is he comparing drug users to computer users just because they are called "users"? |
| 03:32.21 | brailsmt | does he actually believe this crap? |
| 03:32.37 | brailsmt | he _is_ educated, right? |
| 03:32.54 | brailsmt | oh yeah, I forgot, his alma mater is BYU... too bad for us... |
| 03:33.34 | brailsmt | another gem... |
| 03:33.34 | brailsmt | McBride: All the big guys, HP, IBM, Oracle, etc. (For more on the Chicago 7, see story.) Or look at the massive amount of money IBM is pushing into Linux companies all over the world. They should start a division in heart lung machines [to support] all those little companies |
| 03:33.34 | brailsmt | IBM is the master of creating an illusion that they're being attacked by this big brutal bully SCO when they're the ones attacking us. They're the ones doing all the behind-the-scenes work. |
| 03:33.53 | brailsmt | so IBM is creating an illusion that SCO is filing these lawsuits? |
| 03:34.17 | brailsmt | did they create the press releases and court filings too, all in a move to create an illusion? |
| 03:34.31 | Mecworks | Yup, he's a sick-o. |
| 03:34.36 | brailsmt | I - D - I - O - T |
| 03:35.08 | brailsmt | "We have a business to run. Our employees are reenergized around the movement back to Unix, reenergized around the role SCO is playing..." |
| 03:35.26 | brailsmt | what employees? the legal shrills, or the R&D staff? |
| 03:35.40 | brailsmt | oh wait, they got rid of their R&D staff... |
| 03:35.58 | brailsmt | nevermind... |
| 03:36.28 | Mecworks | Yup, I was one of them. |
| 03:37.31 | Mecworks | Luckly before McBride of Frankenstein came to the company. |
| 03:41.56 | brailsmt | "I tell you what, I'll give you the Linux community getting mad at us vs. shareholder value. That was the trade off. They were absolutely right, the Linux community got mad and we were right, shareholder value went up. The last time I checked the CEO was in charge of shareholder value, not standing around the campfire singing Kumbaya with the Linux world. So far, I'm pleased with where we're going.." |
| 03:42.06 | brailsmt | This guy is an absolute nutcase |
| 03:47.35 | emcnabb | pot |
| 03:47.43 | emcnabb | is has got to be the pot he smokes |
| 03:47.46 | brailsmt | pot head? |
| 03:48.25 | Mecworks | So, his highest value in life is money. He'd sell his soul to the devil to raise share holder value. He'd try to destroy the most humanitarian computing effort in the history of manknd, he'd try to crush the OS an movement with most environmentaly-friendly developemnt abd distribution system the world has everh seen, he'd stint the growth of the OS that has helped countless millions of people that cannot afford decent computing environemtns, sch |
| 03:48.26 | Mecworks | ools, communities, etc, to rais shareholder value because his company cannot compete on a technological platform. |
| 03:49.13 | emcnabb | Mecworks, that's a great way to put it |
| 03:49.24 | brailsmt | at least no one is saying that he is a devout mormon... |
| 03:49.47 | brailsmt | in the press i mean |
| 03:49.56 | Mecworks | And to put a cherry on the sunday, he counts himself a worthy, temple rcommend holding LaterDay Saint. |
| 03:52.03 | Mecworks | He served his mission in Japan a few years before I was there. |
| 03:52.31 | Mecworks | (yea, no one in the press is tying his actions to the LDS church. |
| 03:52.33 | Mecworks | ) |
| 03:52.54 | Mecworks | Unfortunatly there's enough of that on /. |
| 03:53.30 | emcnabb | I really think several SCO execs might get ex'ed (if there are problems with the law because of this scandal) |
| 03:54.34 | Mecworks | I'm serious about what I stated above (the long diatribe) - I've been thinking along thoes lines for some time. I really think this is a moral issue. |
| 03:55.42 | Mecworks | not a monetary one. |
| 03:59.14 | brailsmt | Darl McBride needs a peanut butter enima... |
| 03:59.20 | brailsmt | extra crunchy... |
| 04:07.08 | emcnabb | Mecworks, I guess we'll see what happens |
| 04:16.36 | Mecworks | yup |
| 04:19.25 | brailsmt | things just more and more desperate at SCO these days, I would not be surprised if they die soon... |
| 04:19.40 | brailsmt | they are now going after the BSD can of worms... |
| 04:19.59 | brailsmt | which is likely to piss off Apple and MS since both their OSes rely on BSD code... |
| 04:22.02 | Mecworks | well, I think we all feel they should but it looks like their defensive actions are centered around entrenching themsevles for the long haul. When one path seems to dimm, then grasp at another straw, and poke and jab the eyes of the OOS comunity whenever they can trying to provoke them, at what seems to be an attempt to build their case agains the "radical' opensourcsists who fought back. |
| 04:22.10 | sjansen | The Economist has tied him to the church. |
| 04:22.38 | Mecworks | interesting. |
| 04:22.49 | sjansen | They're very pro-OSS. |
| 04:23.33 | brailsmt | yeah, but they (the press in general) have not made the general assertion that he is a mormon, which is good... |
| 04:23.45 | Mecworks | 1 |
| 04:25.34 | Mecworks | (I mean, 0<1 - which is to say "true") |
| 04:28.45 | emcnabb | ~slashdot |
| 04:30.17 | emcnabb | that's phil windley on slashdot (the one who wrote about McBride) from the CS department |
| 04:32.39 | brailsmt | byu cs dept? |
| 04:33.44 | emcnabb | yeah |
| 04:33.50 | emcnabb | the professor |
| 04:42.29 | emcnabb | http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=86343&cid=7507961 |
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| 05:23.33 | torriem | In thinking about what you said, Mecworks, the phrase "calling evil good and good evil" comes to mind, with regards to what McBride is saying |
| 05:28.05 | Mecworks | I certainly agree |
| 05:29.35 | jakea | that certainly sums it up |
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| 05:43.44 | sjansen | "He was twitching because he's got my axe embedded in his nervous system." |
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| 06:11.31 | torriem | I think asking SCO to sponser our club t-shirt for the uug would be a hoot. |
| 06:11.36 | torriem | (thanks to jason holt) |
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| 06:21.57 | spr5 | They've got the money on hand for the shirts... |
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| 14:35.35 | Hanuman | So, anyone awake this morning, or does everyone have TwoTowers hangovers? |
| 14:35.55 | Tenebram | I'm up |
| 14:36.00 | Tenebram | Then again, I never went to sleep |
| 14:36.05 | Tenebram | so does that count? |
| 14:36.14 | Hanuman | well Good morning (or good night) |
| 14:36.24 | Hanuman | up watching TT? |
| 14:36.26 | Tenebram | Whatever it is, it's definitely good. |
| 14:36.33 | Tenebram | Nope, sure wasn't. |
| 14:36.44 | Tenebram | Just wan't even remotely tired for most of the night. |
| 14:36.44 | Hanuman | studying? |
| 14:36.56 | Tenebram | Study! Now THAT would have been a good idea. |
| 14:37.04 | Tenebram | No, nothing so productive. |
| 14:37.10 | Tenebram | Just playing with my computer. |
| 14:37.16 | Hanuman | that was my next question |
| 14:37.41 | Hanuman | You know Dale Carnegie theorizes that if we were always doing things we enjoyed we would not ever need sleep |
| 14:37.46 | Hanuman | it's boredom that makes us tired |
| 14:37.46 | Tenebram | When I eventually did get tired, I realized that if I DID go to sleep, I'd be too tired for my 8:00 class. |
| 14:37.55 | Tenebram | not that is an excellent theory. |
| 14:38.18 | Tenebram | However there have been times that I've been doing something I thoroughly enjoyed and become quite tired. |
| 14:38.34 | Hanuman | yeah - it's clearly unfounded, but wouldn't it be nice |
| 14:38.41 | Tenebram | Althought there have been other times when I just haven't gotten around to sleeping because I've been too distracted by something enjoyable. |
| 14:38.47 | Tenebram | It would be VERY nice. |
| 14:39.25 | Tenebram | Maybe if I just choose to believe it it'll become true for me. |
| 14:39.33 | Tenebram | Think that'll work? |
| 14:40.10 | Tenebram | You know, I should check dependancies more carefully before I install something. |
| 14:40.23 | Tenebram | I was tired then though, so I forgive myself. |
| 14:40.33 | Tenebram | It's compining several odd gnome packages. |
| 14:40.38 | Tenebram | compiling, even |
| 14:43.44 | Hanuman | as long as it's not complaining about them |
| 14:44.51 | Tenebram | no, just compiling them. |
| 14:45.04 | Tenebram | and installing them |
| 14:45.27 | Tenebram | gnome-base/gnome-desktop-2.4.1.1 merged. |
| 14:45.31 | Tenebram | hrmm... |
| 14:45.36 | Tenebram | looks like I've got gnome now |
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| 14:58.28 | bonez39 | stuart, howdy... |
| 15:13.14 | Hanuman | ~editor |
| 15:13.17 | | ACTION 's favorite editor is vim, what else? |
| 15:38.38 | sjansen | morning |
| 15:39.00 | sjansen | bonez39: Oops, looks like you've fallen into my Inbox blackhole. |
| 15:47.52 | bonez39 | oh, sorry |
| 16:06.04 | Tenebram | now THAT was fun. |
| 16:06.11 | Tenebram | and by fun I mean economics |
| 16:08.11 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@dsl.dyn.02-59.budget.net) |
| 16:08.13 | sjansen | Does anyone know why double slashes in a URL is a possible security problem? |
| 16:08.42 | Tenebram | I actually have no idea |
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| 16:21.26 | sjansen | All I've been able to find is that it's used disguise ../../ from IDSes. Apparently they're less likely to catch ..//..// |
| 16:24.33 | sjansen | Hmm... looks like the problem is more widespread. Not just IDS but the web server itself may get security wrong. |
| 16:24.51 | sjansen | Yeah, I can see why it's better to filter this out. |
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| 16:51.09 | neybar_work | that CRN article reference on /. makes me really mad |
| 16:52.03 | Tenebram | Eh? |
| 16:52.30 | neybar_work | it is about an interview with darl mcbride |
| 16:52.47 | neybar_work | http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=46153 |
| 16:56.14 | HarleyPig | It's slashed ... got a mirror link? |
| 16:56.33 | HarleyPig | nm, just came up |
| 16:56.40 | HarleyPig | It's still slashed though |
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| 18:09.36 | Hanuman_work | !a ups so my internet connection quits going out |
| 18:09.56 | Hanuman_work | nope - just what I thought - my internet connection's down at home |
| 18:14.48 | bonez39 | just curious..what do you all use for security..to keep the spyware from infecting your systems, and to keep the spam and junk out? |
| 18:15.11 | bonez39 | is there anything effective to scan a linux box ...to find out if anything unwanted it lurking in the background? |
| 18:15.48 | sjansen | bonez39: Spyware isn't much of a problem on Linux. |
| 18:16.26 | sjansen | Keep the system up to date with the latest patches. Only install packages from a trusted source. |
| 18:16.39 | bonez39 | sjansen: ok...I am glad..that's why I am here...let me ask it a different way.....you mention patches..what patches? |
| 18:16.59 | bonez39 | sjansen: I don't have any entries in my sources.list file that I don't trust... |
| 18:17.12 | sjansen | Viruses/Spyware/etc. while theoretically possible on Linux are rare and would be greatly limited in their capabilities. |
| 18:17.22 | sjansen | What distro do you use? |
| 18:17.39 | bonez39 | debian 3.0 |
| 18:18.01 | sjansen | Then all you need to do is regular "apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade" |
| 18:18.02 | neybar_work | apt-get update |
| 18:18.06 | neybar_work | apt-get upgrade |
| 18:18.31 | sjansen | I'm not a debian user, but I check for updates roughly daily. |
| 18:19.46 | Hanuman_work | yum update |
| 18:19.53 | Hanuman_work | :-p |
| 18:20.11 | bonez39 | I was talking with a friend..he's a windows user, ... was discussing Changing Lanes, that Affleck movie...where the guy pays that goon to mess the other guy's life up...I said is that really possible? he thought it was easily done...I worry about that sort of thing, but perhaps I should not |
| 18:20.26 | bonez39 | sjansen: I run apt-get update regularly |
| 18:20.57 | Hanuman_work | bonez39: always worry about it, but worry more if you run Windows |
| 18:21.01 | sjansen | Followed by either "apt-get upgrade" or "apt-get dist-upgrade"? |
| 18:21.30 | bonez39 | Hanuman: I mean, I am behind a firewall........could someone..still get through and mess with my network? |
| 18:21.49 | sjansen | Identity theft is possible. A malicious person can definetly do it. But it isn't as easy as the movies make it out to be. |
| 18:22.00 | Bradipo | It's probably easier. :-) |
| 18:22.06 | sjansen | Ruining your credit is easy. Giving you a criminal record is a little harder. |
| 18:22.14 | Hanuman_work | bonez39: depends on your firewall setup, physical access to your computer, vulnerabilities in your firewall software and your OS - any port you open on the firewall releases possible vulnerabilities |
| 18:22.22 | Bradipo | bonez39: Yes, a firewall only keeps out unwanted traffic. |
| 18:22.33 | Bradipo | It doesn't keep out traffic that you want that might carry malicious payloads. |
| 18:22.39 | Hanuman_work | bonez39: oh - and shred things up before you put them in the trash |
| 18:22.44 | Hanuman_work | put a lock on your mailbox |
| 18:23.03 | bonez39 | Bradipo: I hear there is trouble brewing down there with Mr. McBride and cronnies...hiring bodyguards and such now... |
| 18:23.25 | bonez39 | shred stuff..eh? suggestions on a shredder? |
| 18:23.36 | Bradipo | Hmm, it wouldn't surprise me with the fervor with which some of the linux community acts. |
| 18:23.36 | Hanuman_work | Bradipo: and that's assuming your firewall doesn't have vulnerabilities |
| 18:23.55 | Hanuman_work | bonez39: best shredder is a match |
| 18:24.02 | bonez39 | match, ok..... |
| 18:24.17 | Hanuman_work | and then turn the ashes to pulp |
| 18:24.29 | Hanuman_work | that's how the CIA does it |
| 18:24.35 | Hanuman_work | so they say |
| 18:24.38 | tensai | that's a little overkill, but fun |
| 18:24.54 | tensai | a nice little crosscut shredder will do just fine |
| 18:25.02 | Hanuman_work | bonez39: in reality, just tear things up with your hands - cheap and easy |
| 18:25.03 | Bradipo | If I had a wood stove I would burn all my shredded papers. |
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| 18:25.14 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 18:25.22 | Hanuman_work | nice tinder for a fireplace this winter |
| 18:25.53 | bonez39 | true..true..I will start shredding...and take it home to burn.. |
| 18:26.10 | Hanuman_work | I got a cheap shredder from office max and just shred necessary documents |
| 18:26.14 | bonez39 | Hanuman_work: I thought you were talking about a digital shredder.. |
| 18:26.37 | hans | which linux kernel processor family option should I choose for |
| 18:26.37 | hans | model name : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 1.70GHz |
| 18:26.42 | *** join/#utah Tenebram (~Tenebram@128.187.247.215) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
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| 18:26.49 | Bradipo | Isn't there a PIV option? |
| 18:27.33 | hans | pentium 4? yeah. is that what a xeon is? |
| 18:27.36 | Jayce^ | hans: p4 |
| 18:27.55 | Jayce^ | so, ideas people.. got a box that keeps locking up.. |
| 18:28.05 | Jayce^ | checked all the hardware, verifies fine |
| 18:28.11 | sjansen | hans: You really don't want to be using that machine. It'll give you no end of trouble. Tell you what, I've got a nice 800Mhz AMD machine at home I trade you for no extra fee. |
| 18:28.20 | Jayce^ | even swapped some out (mobo).. and still the same issues.. |
| 18:28.33 | Jayce^ | tried new kernels.. different configs,options.. |
| 18:28.50 | Jayce^ | turned off different parts, audio, nic, etc.. |
| 18:28.52 | sjansen | How did you "verify" the hardware? |
| 18:29.05 | Jayce^ | sjansen: software qa tools.. |
| 18:29.06 | Tenebram | he had a wizard do it |
| 18:29.15 | Jayce^ | took it in to the shop.. |
| 18:29.35 | Jayce^ | even, gasp, tried a windows disk in it.. |
| 18:29.41 | Jayce^ | windows didn't crash! |
| 18:29.58 | Tenebram | not even a little? |
| 18:30.03 | Jayce^ | no, scary enough |
| 18:30.17 | Jayce^ | and nothing is getting to the logs giving any hints as to a cause.. |
| 18:30.21 | Hanuman_work | is it your new mobo causing the problems? |
| 18:30.25 | Jayce^ | machine hard locks.. can't even ping the thing |
| 18:30.28 | Hanuman_work | maybe the kernel drivers? |
| 18:30.51 | Jayce^ | this box was stable for months.. then one day to the next it happened.. |
| 18:31.24 | tensai | can you use the magic sysrq key? |
| 18:31.25 | Hanuman_work | so this isn't your new mobo machine, right? |
| 18:31.46 | Jayce^ | tensai, nope |
| 18:32.06 | Jayce^ | Hanuman_work: this is one of the reasons I switched mobos.. trying to figure this out |
| 18:32.17 | Hanuman_work | ahh... |
| 18:32.25 | Hanuman_work | still happens w/ the new mobo eh? |
| 18:32.34 | tensai | tried a 2.2 kernel? |
| 18:33.19 | Bradipo | Jayce^: When does it lock up? |
| 18:33.27 | Bradipo | Did you run memtest86 on it? |
| 18:33.41 | Tenebram | If I had a dollar for every time I had sixty cents, I'd be Canada. |
| 18:34.07 | Hanuman_work | very true eh? |
| 18:34.14 | *** join/#utah HarleyPig (~JS@65.105.156.40) |
| 18:34.25 | HarleyPig | I know what I want for christmas: http://lycoris.com/press/portege.php |
| 18:35.23 | tensai | my machine used to lock up frequently. it's a problem with the geforce card. In the BIOS I changed the halt on all errors to halt on none. That eliminated 80-90% of the lockups. |
| 18:35.44 | Jayce^ | Bradipo: yeah.. memory checks out on memtest and one other |
| 18:35.51 | Tenebram | now THAT is pretty |
| 18:36.04 | Hanuman_work | HarleyPig: does it do handwriting recognition? |
| 18:36.20 | Jayce^ | tensai: wow, never had that, and it's been running this card for 2 years |
| 18:36.39 | Jayce^ | Bradipo: can't find a pattern for when it locks up.. and I've been trying |
| 18:36.52 | Jayce^ | sometimes it's when I am doing something, other times, it's sitting still |
| 18:36.53 | tensai | Jayce^: it's just a bad card I believe. happens in Linux and windows. |
| 18:37.25 | sjansen | How long did you spend in Windows? Did you really excercise it? |
| 18:37.49 | Jayce^ | sjansen: left it on over the last weekend (and played a game the whole way through :) ) no locks.. |
| 18:37.50 | HarleyPig | Hanuman_work: Not yet. |
| 18:38.17 | Jayce^ | put another disk in, and had it run for 4 hours doing a full virus scan... worked fine |
| 18:38.19 | sjansen | Are you using any tainted kernel modules? |
| 18:38.19 | HarleyPig | They claim it'll be done by christmas, but we'll see. |
| 18:38.42 | tensai | I know. diff -u /usr/src/windows /usr/src/linux. See what that shows. :-) |
| 18:39.08 | Hanuman_work | HarleyPig: cool |
| 18:39.34 | Hanuman_work | could it be memory? |
| 18:39.38 | Jayce^ | sjansen: nvidia video... but I've been using that for several years now |
| 18:39.44 | Jayce^ | Hanuman_work: nope.. double tested that.. |
| 18:40.26 | Jayce^ | I'd blame it on the distro, but I know others running it just perfectly.. |
| 18:40.28 | Hanuman_work | you could send me your new mobo and I'll trade it for mine |
| 18:40.37 | Jayce^ | *gasp* even reinstalled to try that |
| 18:40.51 | hans | have you tried hooking up to the serial port and see if you can catch the kernel panic through that (or via network syslog) |
| 18:41.22 | Jayce^ | no, no serial cabling. |
| 18:43.18 | tensai | have you tried running it without X? or in run level 1? |
| 18:43.52 | sjansen | Try running it w/o the nvidia drivers for awhile. |
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| 18:44.15 | sjansen | I've had them randomly lock my system before. |
| 18:44.17 | *** join/#utah brailsmt_ (~michael@c-67-169-252-177.client.comcast.net) |
| 18:44.35 | hans | or with the vesa driver |
| 18:44.38 | hans | framebuffer? |
| 18:46.15 | Jayce^ | the problem of no nvidia is I run dual monitors :) |
| 18:46.19 | Jayce^ | can't live w/o that :D |
| 18:47.27 | sjansen | Better than locking the system. |
| 18:48.01 | Jayce^ | but I know others using the same @#$@ drivers in dual monitor, and not having the trouble.. |
| 18:48.01 | sjansen | You sound like a windows user. |
| 18:48.38 | Jayce^ | and why did they just stop working one day to the next? |
| 18:49.23 | sjansen | *shrug* Strange and mysterious are the ways of the kernel and it mobo buses. Powerful and beyond reproach. Ours is not to question, merely to obey. |
| 18:49.36 | Jayce^ | sjansen: now you sound like the windows user :) |
| 18:49.47 | Jayce^ | touche |
| 18:50.20 | sjansen | All I'm suggesting is an experiment. I started having problems a few weeks after I started usign the nvidia drivers. The box has been rock solid since I stopped. |
| 18:51.28 | sjansen | Quite frankly, this is why kernel developers refuse to supporte tainted kernels. Who knows what kind of stupid things nvidia might be doing. |
| 18:52.12 | Hanuman_work | Jayce^: you could get an ATI card - they are now providing Linux drivers for their cards |
| 18:52.40 | Jayce^ | ugh.. no thanks. |
| 18:52.58 | Hanuman_work | I love my ATI's |
| 18:52.59 | Jayce^ | I was running that version of that driver for 3 months before I had issues though |
| 18:53.23 | Jayce^ | and been running the previous ones for a couple years before that.. |
| 18:53.35 | Hanuman_work | First step to overcoming addiction (to Nvidia) is to admit it... |
| 18:53.44 | Hanuman_work | ;-) |
| 18:55.37 | Jayce^ | hah |
| 18:55.45 | Jayce^ | never had good results with an ati |
| 18:55.49 | Jayce^ | especially for 3d |
| 18:55.59 | Tenebram | I've got an old matrox card... |
| 18:57.08 | Tenebram | just pipe the video output to your speakers, and work by sound. |
| 19:00.20 | hans | Jayce^: see <linux>/Documentation/oops-tracing.txt |
| 19:09.40 | neybar_work | Jayce^: have you tried using the 2.6 or 2.2 kernel yet? |
| 19:09.51 | Jayce^ | not 2.2 |
| 19:09.56 | Jayce^ | the 2.6 I tried wouldn't boot |
| 19:10.13 | Jayce^ | some of my stuff wont' work with 2.2 |
| 19:10.14 | neybar_work | the urpmi one, or self compilied? |
| 19:10.19 | Jayce^ | urpmi |
| 19:10.25 | neybar_work | interesting |
| 19:10.29 | Jayce^ | dont' have time right now to learn all the 2.6 config stuff |
| 19:11.32 | tensai | fyi, the nvidia binary driver doesn't work with 2.6 |
| 19:12.06 | Jayce^ | tensai: I've seen some stuff out there to allow it to work |
| 19:13.36 | sjansen | You have no sense of shame, do you? |
| 19:14.09 | sjansen | Running a binary module on a kernel it wasn't designed for. Madness. |
| 19:15.35 | Jayce^ | actually, it has been designed for it now.. supposedly :) |
| 19:17.51 | Hanuman_work | The new drivers produced by ATI are supposed to work really well under Linux |
| 19:31.15 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~jayce@65.218.37.130) |
| 19:31.15 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 19:37.33 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@65.218.37.130) |
| 19:43.23 | Hanuman_work | so is SCO ever going to go through with their FUD? To me they are my morning comic - fictional possibilities |
| 19:43.53 | Hanuman_work | I'm sick of them making threats and not seeing any action from their threats |
| 19:45.06 | Hanuman_work | All right - which one of you is threatening SCO execs to cause them to hire bodyguards? |
| 19:45.24 | Hanuman_work | Maybe it's the PLUG mtgs being held across the street that has them frightened |
| 19:46.17 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 19:46.40 | Hanuman_work | All those guys in beards are scaring them |
| 19:46.52 | Hanuman_work | never know what might be hiding in that beard, you know |
| 19:47.05 | Jayce^ | harleypig stood outside there in his speedo |
| 19:47.59 | Hanuman_work | Or maybe it's just Stallman testifying that has them scared |
| 19:54.10 | sjansen | Happily, it wasn't true. Or if it is, it happened after I left. |
| 19:54.45 | Jayce^ | sjansen, nah, he wanted to wait until it was cold out :) |
| 19:55.05 | sjansen | You've probably hit it on the head. Now that we're meeting near them, they probably thing we're IBM operatives staking out their office. |
| 19:55.06 | Hanuman_work | stop! stop! I can't take it anymore |
| 19:55.31 | Hanuman_work | or those scary protesters that were outside their offices that one day |
| 19:55.41 | Hanuman_work | you know how violent that got |
| 19:55.59 | sjansen | Tires burning in the street. |
| 19:56.21 | sjansen | A VM bug turned upside down. |
| 19:56.24 | Hanuman_work | or was that the pretty car in the background in that picture on the website |
| 19:56.26 | Jayce^ | hey, we were outside their office late the other night.. saw them working in the conference room.. |
| 19:56.27 | sjansen | s/VM/VW/ |
| 19:58.52 | tensai | you need to get one of those laser microphones. hear what's really going on |
| 19:58.57 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 19:59.23 | tensai | make sure the laser could also be mounted on a rifle ;) |
| 20:00.06 | sjansen | Now, now, that kind of comment could land you in court these days. Much better to suggest toppling their offices, plowing them under, and salting the earth. |
| 20:01.06 | Hanuman_work | man - they're going to sue PLUG next thing we know |
| 20:01.13 | Hanuman_work | next target LUG's |
| 20:01.31 | Hanuman_work | Got any lawyers in PLUG? |
| 20:02.03 | tensai | sjansen: you're right. make sure the laser can mount on a bulldozer. |
| 20:02.05 | Jayce^ | At any rate, McBride has no plans to compromise SCO's claims. The title of his address Tuesday night to the Computer Digital Expo at Mandalay Bay was: "There's No Free Lunch -- or Free Linux." |
| 20:03.20 | Hanuman_work | Yeah - I got a laugh out of that |
| 20:03.41 | hans | yeah, who is trying to get free lunch here? |
| 20:03.51 | Hanuman_work | Linux will always exist - I don't care |
| 20:04.11 | Hanuman_work | SCO is making it so we can't afford lunch |
| 20:04.30 | Jayce^ | but he's fighting for his right to a second house, remember... |
| 20:04.35 | Jayce^ | we're trying to steal that from him :) |
| 20:04.43 | Hanuman_work | Does he have a private plane yet? |
| 20:05.25 | Hanuman_work | I can't wait until the SEC starts getting involved in all this - I am willing to be that they will |
| 20:06.03 | Hanuman_work | Generating FUD to drive up stock prices - isn't that illegal? |
| 20:08.19 | Jayce^ | no, he turned us down before |
| 20:08.37 | Hanuman_work | is he scared? |
| 20:08.45 | Hanuman_work | or just doesn't care |
| 20:11.54 | hans | you heard him. he doesn't want to sing kumbaya. |
| 20:20.47 | Hanuman_work | I like singing kumbaya |
| 20:23.02 | Hanuman_work | ~\o Kumbaya, my Lord ~\o |
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| 20:23.11 | HarleyPig | Am I really here? |
| 20:23.12 | Hanuman_work | ~\o Kumbaya! ~\o |
| 20:23.15 | HarleyPig | cool. |
| 20:23.19 | Hanuman_work | as long as you're not in a Speedo |
| 20:23.35 | HarleyPig | Hey ... I have a speedo. i wear it swimming every summer. |
| 20:23.50 | HarleyPig | What you don't want to see is me in a dayglo leather butt thong. |
| 20:23.59 | Hanuman_work | Do you ever wear it outside of the SCO building? |
| 20:24.37 | HarleyPig | Speaking of which, check out ouchytheclown.com ... it's work safe, as long as you don't go to deeply into the site. |
| 20:25.24 | HarleyPig | I've been wanting to give a full moon to them for a long time ... I mean, go up and press the ol' butt cheeks to the glass and everything. |
| 20:27.05 | HarleyPig | Well, that's what's stopped me ... If he's gonna make such a case out of gossamer ... what's he gonna do with a living, breathing sow's ear? |
| 20:28.24 | Hanuman_work | I need to modify my gimmie script so it sues whatever is put after the ! |
| 20:28.32 | Hanuman_work | I can have it run under the nick SCO |
| 20:29.58 | Hanuman_work | !HarleyPig |
| 20:30.06 | Hanuman_work | SCO sues HarleyPig |
| 20:31.54 | HarleyPig | :> |
| 20:32.03 | HarleyPig | !Darl McBride |
| 20:32.17 | Jayce^ | HarleyPig, just do it after the next plug meeting :) |
| 20:32.25 | Jayce^ | one cheek on each door |
| 20:32.25 | HarleyPig | Oh, you made it up. duh. |
| 20:33.05 | HarleyPig | OTOH ... it'll be amusing thinking of everyone opening the doors next morning. |
| 20:35.20 | HarleyPig | That'd be one way of getting my name know worldwide! |
| 20:35.29 | HarleyPig | And my wife to leave me. |
| 20:35.39 | Hanuman_work | HarleyPig: I'm going to write a SCO irssi bot that does that - look for nick SCO on here coming soon |
| 20:36.30 | HarleyPig | SCO sends a c&d to $_ |
| 20:37.16 | Hanuman_work | it would be fitting to have a SCO bot in #utah |
| 20:37.27 | Hanuman_work | add some personality |
| 20:38.20 | Hanuman_work | what do you guys think? |
| 20:38.44 | HarleyPig | And you could add servile-ness to it : /me smacks SCO |
| 20:38.44 | HarleyPig | SCO: I'm sorry ... I won't do that again. |
| 20:40.12 | Hanuman_work | lol |
| 20:40.27 | Hanuman_work | That will be a fun script to write |
| 20:42.46 | Hanuman_work | I'll have to post that one to sf.net - that could be popular at this time on the irc channels |
| 20:44.40 | *** join/#utah art (~art@c-67-169-246-102.client.comcast.net) |
| 20:46.35 | art | anyone using exim out there? |
| 20:46.46 | hans | yu |
| 20:46.56 | art | hey hans. |
| 20:46.56 | hans | p |
| 20:47.35 | art | I've been looking a the docs and I haven't been able to figure out how to bounce messages from a particular domain. |
| 20:47.45 | Hanuman_work | heh - hans said yu p |
| 20:49.17 | hans | art: hmmm |
| 20:49.42 | art | by the way, I'm lovin exim. |
| 20:49.45 | art | it rocks. |
| 20:49.58 | art | much better than postfix |
| 20:52.46 | Hanuman_work | How many NFL teams are there? |
| 20:53.39 | hans | too many |
| 20:54.26 | Jayce^ | not enough |
| 20:54.42 | neybar_work | I like exim too, I moved to it after battling with postfix to do smtp auth |
| 20:54.42 | Hanuman_work | I'm just curious how many Pepsi products I need to buy before I get a hat |
| 20:55.03 | Hanuman_work | how does it compare with qmail's MTA? |
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| 21:00.25 | hans | qmail is more complicated, but also more modular |
| 21:00.33 | hans | i like qmail's docs a lot better than exim's |
| 21:01.08 | Hanuman_work | I hear qmail has excellent docs |
| 21:01.37 | Hanuman_work | we had it installed at the last place I worked, but I wasn't the one who set it up or used it |
| 21:01.41 | hans | that's the only way it has been able to thrive. withot docs qmail would be impossible to get working |
| 21:01.59 | hans | but as it stood a few years ago (when I tried qmail) it was very doable thanks to the good docs |
| 21:10.41 | Hanuman_work | ~editor |
| 21:10.42 | | ACTION 's favorite editor is vim, what else? |
| 21:13.11 | HarleyPig | Anyone know of a simple cron like parser in perl? |
| 21:19.24 | Hanuman_work | what do you mean? |
| 21:19.30 | art | ok never mind about that exim question. |
| 21:19.37 | art | I solved it with spamassassin. |
| 21:19.41 | art | I love linux. |
| 21:20.02 | HarleyPig | Hanuman_work: Me? |
| 21:20.53 | Jayce^ | cron like parser? |
| 21:20.57 | Hanuman_work | HarleyPig: yeah - what are you trying to get it to do? |
| 21:21.06 | Jayce^ | as in a tool that does something at certain times? |
| 21:26.33 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 21:28.00 | Hanuman_work | ~sco HarleyPig |
| 21:28.21 | Hanuman_work | where's ibot when you need him? |
| 21:28.42 | HarleyPig | :> |
| 21:28.48 | HarleyPig | Sorry ... multi tasking. |
| 21:29.49 | HarleyPig | I have a program that needs to run every day, but it's subroutines should fire only under specific date circumstances. |
| 21:30.17 | HarleyPig | I can't install DateTime::Event::Cron because of problems with the installatoin in general and Schedule::Cron doesn't do what I want. |
| 21:31.19 | HarleyPig | I ran across a module some time ago that parsed cron like entries but I can't find it now. What I liked about this module was, that was *all* it did ... it returned a list of valid dates when the cron entry should run. |
| 21:31.20 | Hanuman_work | HarleyPig: you can always write it in your code using Date::Calc |
| 21:31.47 | HarleyPig | ? How? |
| 21:32.17 | HarleyPig | Does Date::Calc parse "* * * 2-6/2 *" ? |
| 21:32.27 | Hanuman_work | I do this in some of my code to not run certain things on Monday: |
| 21:32.34 | Hanuman_work | if (Day_of_Week(Today()) == 7) {# do something} |
| 21:33.08 | Hanuman_work | educate me on what that is so I don't have to look it up in man |
| 21:33.22 | HarleyPig | What? The format? |
| 21:33.41 | Hanuman_work | yeah - is that day 2-6? |
| 21:33.47 | HarleyPig | minute hour monthday month weekday |
| 21:33.52 | HarleyPig | yeah. |
| 21:34.18 | Jayce^ | HarleyPig, I have on that I do like that.. cron fires it at the correct time, then it just ahs a sub that determines if the last conditions are met |
| 21:34.30 | Jayce^ | (needed it to do the first 4 mondays of a month) |
| 21:34.37 | Jayce^ | since some months have 5 |
| 21:34.50 | HarleyPig | The times to be run are arbitrary and changing. |
| 21:35.08 | HarleyPig | Ok ok ok ... I'll tell you what I'm working on ... just don't beat me! |
| 21:35.16 | HarleyPig | It's a mass emailer. |
| 21:35.26 | Hanuman_work | oh - can't help you there then ;-) |
| 21:35.42 | HarleyPig | :P |
| 21:35.52 | HarleyPig | Customer: "But it's all opt-in!" |
| 21:36.03 | HarleyPig | Anyway ... this is what I have: |
| 21:36.20 | Hanuman_work | HarleyPig: don't blame me - I'm doing sidework for something similar for someone saying exactly the same thing |
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| 21:37.04 | HarleyPig | %campaigns = { 'descr' => { 'freq' => '* * * 2-6/2 *', 'qry' => 'query' } } |
| 21:37.49 | Hanuman_work | what does the /2 do? |
| 21:38.44 | HarleyPig | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.56 | HarleyPig | It would be the same as 2,4,6 |
| 21:39.06 | Hanuman_work | okay - every other day on days 2-6 |
| 21:39.14 | HarleyPig | Right |
| 21:40.16 | Hanuman_work | Just parse the freq and do a Date::Calc function on it to determine if it should be run on the current day |
| 21:40.25 | Hanuman_work | then run it in cron as often as you want |
| 21:40.54 | Hanuman_work | checking for that condition each time it is run |
| 21:42.00 | HarleyPig | I think I'm being dense. can Date::Calce parse cron entries? 'freq' could be "* * <5 */2 1" |
| 21:42.41 | HarleyPig | or anything else. |
| 21:44.41 | Hanuman_work | no - you would have to write your own parser |
| 21:44.46 | Hanuman_work | then use Date::Calc to do the rest |
| 21:45.05 | Hanuman_work | I don't know if there is any existing parser out there |
| 21:45.58 | HarleyPig | Ah ... Ok ... DateTime::Event::Cron will do it ... but it's rather complex ... and I can't install it. And I'm having a hard time seeing where in the code the actual parsing is done. |
| 21:46.36 | bonez39 | anyone here use efax, e.g., in /etc/efax.rc? |
| 21:46.51 | HarleyPig | nope, sorry |
| 21:49.15 | HarleyPig | Hanuman_work: Hmmm ... okay. I'll see what I can come up with. |
| 21:49.32 | HarleyPig | I'm just not sure how I would translate <5 to date::calc |
| 21:53.33 | Hanuman_work | if (calculatedmonth) < 5 then do something |
| 21:54.15 | Hanuman_work | you'll have to figure out all the characters cron accepts |
| 21:54.41 | HarleyPig | Oh ... so, just && the three fields (not accepting minute or hourly mass mailings). |
| 21:55.49 | Hanuman_work | you could probably do even minute or hourly mass mailings if that's how often you want to do them |
| 21:56.12 | HarleyPig | Oh, probably ... but I'm not going to. It's not technically feasible. |
| 21:56.52 | HarleyPig | The client probably isn't willing to pay for a new ip range everytime he get's blocked. That's why it's not technically feasible. |
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| 22:04.58 | jsmith | What's new? |
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| 22:32.13 | levi | Nada mucho. |
| 22:43.22 | jsmith | No se' como hablar in castillano... se me olvido' |
| 23:06.44 | Tenebram | someone I know on another server needs some help, but I'm clueless. |
| 23:06.48 | Tenebram | "Just tell me how to access the server-side variable HTTP_REFERER through a Norton Personal Firewall/Internet Security-enabled computer and you get $30, possibly $40" |
| 23:06.54 | Tenebram | any ideas? |
| 23:08.21 | Tenebram | thought you guys'd be the best place to ask |
| 23:14.37 | jsmith | Hold on... I'm a little confused... |
| 23:15.17 | jsmith | Person A is hitting web server X, and server X is behind a Norton Perosonal Firewall... |
| 23:15.27 | jsmith | s/Perosonal/Personal/ |
| 23:15.33 | jsmith | Correct? |
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| 23:16.46 | jsmith | Tenebram: Hello? |
| 23:17.14 | Tenebram | I'm checking |
| 23:18.02 | Tenebram | apparently person A is behind the firewall |
| 23:19.49 | Tenebram | For a problem he portrays a urgent, he's slow in responding. |
| 23:20.11 | Tenebram | "Norton, by default, disables HTTP_REFERER, so it's just an empty string" |
| 23:20.33 | Tenebram | "It can be easily disabled, but we don't have access to tell the clients to turn off that teensy part of it" |
| 23:20.41 | Tenebram | that makes a lot more sense now |
| 23:22.13 | Tenebram | Seems rather messy though |
| 23:23.35 | *** join/#utah Wiggy (~adwignall@c-24-1-141-177.client.comcast.net) |
| 23:23.46 | Tenebram | and here he is |
| 23:23.55 | Tenebram | so I'm bowing out now. |
| 23:24.09 | Tenebram | I'm too sleepy to be trusted relaying messages. |
| 23:25.07 | HarleyPig | Hanuman_work: Are you still listening? |
| 23:25.11 | Tenebram | This is the person asking me for help with HTTP_REFERER |
| 23:25.41 | HarleyPig | Wiggy: Don't trust it. It can be set as a meta tag. |
| 23:26.16 | Wiggy | I know. This isn't mission-critical data, but I'm open to alternatives |
| 23:26.52 | Wiggy | I'm pretty sure Tene explain my problem, but the situation is thus: the site I'm working on needs to track search engine referrals, which is done quite easily using HTTP_REFERER. The only problem is that certain versions of Norton Personal Firewall (and variations thereof) disable HTTP_REFERER, or it can be spoofed. So, any other ways to get the linking page would be appreciated |
| 23:27.29 | HarleyPig | Oh. I see what you mean. Do you control of the linking page? |
| 23:27.42 | jsmith | http://link.to/page?referrer=my_friend |
| 23:27.44 | Wiggy | Nope, the linking page is Excite, Google, Altavista, Yahoo, etc |
| 23:27.59 | jsmith | Uh... you're pretty much out of luck then... |
| 23:28.05 | Wiggy | So I thought |
| 23:28.08 | HarleyPig | Then you can't unless they put something in the links. |
| 23:28.22 | Wiggy | Yea, that's how we're doing it with our affiliates |
| 23:28.45 | jsmith | So, either get a better firewall, or don't depend on HTTP_REFERER |
| 23:29.00 | Wiggy | And we can't tell our clients to get a better firewall ;) |
| 23:29.05 | HarleyPig | Well, for what he's doing, he's pretty much stuck with getting a better firewall. |
| 23:29.17 | HarleyPig | Or, is there a way to turn that off in NPF |
| 23:29.21 | HarleyPig | ? |
| 23:29.29 | Wiggy | Yea, it's very, very easy to turn off |
| 23:30.16 | HarleyPig | Then tell them if they want the info to turn that feature off. Is NPF good enough to specify which connections can have it and which can't? |
| 23:31.27 | Wiggy | Yep, but if we flash a message when a random visitor enters that "Please go through this detailed information about turning off a teensy part of you internet security", we won't get much help |
| 23:33.20 | HarleyPig | Oh! This is on the client side, not your clients. I get it. |
| 23:33.25 | Wiggy | Yep |
| 23:33.26 | HarleyPig | Yer screwed. |
| 23:33.35 | Wiggy | Yea, I figured as much |
| 23:33.38 | HarleyPig | Sorry to put it so bluntly. |
| 23:33.39 | Tenebram | that's what I thought originally |
| 23:33.39 | HarleyPig | :> |
| 23:34.05 | Wiggy | But again, this isn't mission-critical. We just won't get information from people with Norton set up with the default info |
| 23:34.58 | Wiggy | So, this is a place to come for PHP help, eh? |
| 23:35.51 | Tenebram | I'd think 3php would be a lot better for that |
| 23:35.55 | Tenebram | #php, even |
| 23:36.24 | Wiggy | Well, I don't really need PHP help, it's just that I don't hang out with anyone else who knows PHP |
| 23:36.38 | Tenebram | ahh |
| 23:36.45 | Tenebram | I still need to learn it |
| 23:36.50 | Tenebram | I've been meaning to for ages. |
| 23:37.29 | Wiggy | I remember two, three years ago, I had just read my fourth book on ASP and was using it regularly, and I was adamantly against learning PHP. I had gotten too lazy |
| 23:37.43 | Wiggy | I didn't want to have to start writing pages that required "syntax" or "proper capitalization" |
| 23:38.01 | jsmith | Tenebram: It's easy... and powerful... |
| 23:38.12 | Tenebram | and takes a small amount of time |
| 23:38.21 | Tenebram | which I never get around to investing |
| 23:39.01 | jsmith | Well, along with being a sys-admin and VoIP guru... |
| 23:39.14 | Wiggy | But I'm just a sub-contractor |
| 23:39.56 | Wiggy | I stay in my apartment and a guy in California who knows no server-side languages says "Such-and-such needs to be done. I told the guys it's possible. Have it ready by Monday?" |
| 23:40.21 | jsmith | Been there... done that... still have the scars to prove it... |
| 23:40.50 | synic | better than the "We've been selling echo merchant accounts to our customers. You probably ought to write an interface for it." |
| 23:41.10 | jsmith | synic: Uh, yeah... been there, done that too... |
| 23:41.42 | jsmith | synic: "We told our customers that we could tie our bar-code system directly into their back-end database... Well, they need to show it to their CEO this afternoon..." |
| 23:41.46 | synic | it's like "Thanks for letting me know... two weeks later..." |
| 23:41.58 | synic | lol... |
| 23:42.19 | synic | jsmith: lovely - you gonna have it done? |
| 23:42.56 | jsmith | synic: Oh yeah... had it done that afternoon... well, late that afternoon... more like evening... |
| 23:43.06 | synic | hehe :) |
| 23:43.17 | jsmith | synic: Of course, they just gave me complete access to their database (across the internet!) |
| 23:43.35 | jsmith | synic: Had PHP talking to SQL Server in no time... Ahhhh... the good ol' days... |
| 23:43.54 | Wiggy | I'm enjoying my good ol' days |
| 23:43.55 | synic | never had to do that. I've never had to use anything but MySQL with PHP. |
| 23:44.13 | Wiggy | I'm working on ASP working with PHP working with MSSQL |
| 23:44.26 | jsmith | I prefer Postgres... but that's just me... MySQL is a good second choice... |
| 23:44.44 | jsmith | Wiggy: FreeTDS is your friend... that's all I'm gonna say... |
| 23:44.57 | Wiggy | I doubt it's more secure than MS SQL |
| 23:45.06 | Wiggy | Why, it's so secure on this server that it doesn't even have a password set! |
| 23:45.09 | Wiggy | Boy howdy, that's secure |
| 23:45.39 | Tenebram | secure like a moose! |
| 23:45.43 | Tenebram | err... |
| 23:45.47 | Wiggy | A well-oiled moose |
| 23:46.00 | Tenebram | Yeah! |
| 23:47.09 | jsmith | Nothing like accessing MS-SQL over the internet with a blank "sa" password... and their idea of security was running SQL server on a different port number... |
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| 23:47.17 | HarleyPig | :D |
| 23:47.17 | levi | Secure like a pamplemousse? |
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| 23:50.39 | Wiggy | These people are real geniuses. I'm not trying to make it as secure as possible for them, I'm trying to make them realize it's not the most secure website |
| 23:51.21 | Wiggy | Such as, on the old tracking system they had installed, I had (in big red letters) "Default username is Admin, password is password. Please change this to make this message go away" |
| 23:51.28 | Wiggy | Three months later, that message is as red as ever |
| 23:53.34 | Tenebram | ack! |
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| 23:54.25 | jsmith | Anybody going to the SLLUG meeting tonight? |
| 23:55.41 | HarleyPig | SHIT! Why do I even bother with #perl. Soopid arrogant *&(%($%(*&^(*&'s |
