| 03:48.27 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:48.27 | *** topic/#utah is http://sllug.org http://plug.org http://uug.byu.edu http://fslc.usu.edu http://www.ldsoss.org |
| 03:48.27 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 03:59.53 | *** join/#utah synic|home (~synic@65-100-247-91.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 04:39.13 | *** join/#utah RedHat (~al@c-24-10-194-77.client.comcast.net) |
| 04:58.57 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 04:58.57 | *** topic/#utah is http://sllug.org http://plug.org http://uug.byu.edu http://fslc.usu.edu http://www.ldsoss.org |
| 04:58.57 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 05:50.32 | *** join/#utah torriem (~torriem@c-67-161-219-205.client.comcast.net) |
| 06:01.48 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 06:01.48 | *** topic/#utah is http://sllug.org http://plug.org http://uug.byu.edu http://fslc.usu.edu http://www.ldsoss.org |
| 06:01.48 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 06:31.54 | *** join/#utah Beandog (~steve@c-24-2-78-226.client.comcast.net) |
| 07:16.48 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 07:16.48 | *** topic/#utah is http://sllug.org http://plug.org http://uug.byu.edu http://fslc.usu.edu http://www.ldsoss.org |
| 07:16.48 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 07:21.40 | emcnabb | ~lart torriem |
| 07:21.47 | emcnabb | yup, ibot works |
| 07:22.31 | emcnabb | ~help |
| 07:22.54 | torriem | ~help |
| 07:23.34 | emcnabb | ibot, how are you tonight? |
| 07:23.36 | | emcnabb: I think you lost me on that one |
| 07:23.43 | emcnabb | ibot, hello |
| 07:23.43 | | what's up, emcnabb |
| 07:23.49 | emcnabb | ibot, not much |
| 07:23.50 | | emcnabb: I wish you would RTFM. |
| 07:23.59 | emcnabb | ibot, screw you |
| 07:24.00 | | emcnabb: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface. |
| 07:24.27 | torriem | :) |
| 07:24.35 | emcnabb | ~whaleslap torriem |
| 07:24.38 | | ACTION slaps torriem upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 07:25.07 | emcnabb | ~slashdot |
| 07:25.21 | torriem | ibot is cool |
| 07:25.24 | | torriem: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox? |
| 07:25.29 | emcnabb | hahah |
| 07:27.56 | torriem | The real torriem is still torriem |
| 07:28.30 | torriem | Although I am feeling slightly scytzophrenic |
| 07:28.41 | emcnabb | well, I better get to bed |
| 07:28.48 | emcnabb | that is a goal |
| 07:28.48 | torriem | nighty |
| 07:56.05 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (~sanchiro@64.122.114.148) |
| 08:31.56 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 08:31.56 | *** topic/#utah is http://sllug.org http://plug.org http://uug.byu.edu http://fslc.usu.edu http://www.ldsoss.org |
| 08:31.56 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 09:46.54 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 09:46.54 | *** topic/#utah is http://sllug.org http://plug.org http://uug.byu.edu http://fslc.usu.edu http://www.ldsoss.org |
| 09:46.54 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 11:01.51 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 11:01.51 | *** topic/#utah is http://sllug.org http://plug.org http://uug.byu.edu http://fslc.usu.edu http://www.ldsoss.org |
| 11:01.51 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 12:16.51 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 12:16.51 | *** topic/#utah is http://sllug.org http://plug.org http://uug.byu.edu http://fslc.usu.edu http://www.ldsoss.org |
| 12:16.51 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 12:54.59 | *** join/#utah synic|home (~synic@65-100-247-91.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 13:31.46 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 13:31.46 | *** topic/#utah is http://sllug.org http://plug.org http://uug.byu.edu http://fslc.usu.edu http://www.ldsoss.org |
| 13:31.46 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 14:46.46 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 14:46.46 | *** topic/#utah is http://sllug.org http://plug.org http://uug.byu.edu http://fslc.usu.edu http://www.ldsoss.org |
| 14:46.46 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 15:05.25 | Hanuman | ~whaleslap ibot |
| 15:05.28 | | ACTION slaps ibot upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 15:06.32 | emcnabb | Hanuman, yup |
| 15:06.32 | Hanuman | emcnabb: I think I remember seeing that fedora has a problem or two with Ximian, but I can't remember what - the release notes for fedora might mention what that was |
| 15:06.48 | emcnabb | oh, ok |
| 15:06.49 | Hanuman | lol - we talked at the same time |
| 15:06.52 | Hanuman | lol again |
| 15:06.53 | emcnabb | I was just wondering |
| 15:06.54 | emcnabb | yeah |
| 15:07.00 | emcnabb | what are the chances of that |
| 15:07.25 | Hanuman | we must have been psychic that the other was going to talk to us |
| 15:07.33 | emcnabb | haha |
| 15:25.03 | hans | lol. that's always the response when someone finds the light of Debian. "Have you tried X yet?" To be fair that's my response when someone rants about X, too... |
| 15:27.11 | hans | (unwarranted lateral analogy) Have you tried Catholocism yet? ;-) |
| 15:27.36 | Hanuman | ~whaleslap Debian |
| 15:27.39 | | ACTION slaps Debian upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 15:27.42 | Hanuman | :-p |
| 15:28.14 | Hanuman | It's a cool distro if I could just get it to work on my system - which is primarily my own fault |
| 15:29.20 | Hanuman | Redhat has just been so easy to use and that's why I use it. |
| 15:34.50 | hans | i think you have a point. without picking unduly on rh and friends, they are like windows in that they're easy to use and harder to administer. Not a necessary tradeoff but an easy one to fall into. |
| 15:35.14 | hans | which is why it is a good transition from windows for people. RH was my transition distro too. |
| 15:35.50 | Hanuman | How is RedHat harder to administer? |
| 15:36.11 | Hanuman | Mandrake was my transition distro |
| 15:36.13 | hans | to that I can only say you have not seen the light yet |
| 15:36.30 | emcnabb | I went from Debian to RH to Gentoo |
| 15:36.39 | emcnabb | haven't looked back since |
| 15:37.09 | hans | gentoo has a lot of the niceties of Debian, even if you do have to compile everything |
| 15:37.11 | Hanuman | I'd rather use FreeBSD than Gentoo since their packaging system has been around longer, but I've only researched Gentoo, so my response is not very educated |
| 15:37.20 | Hanuman | I have used FreeBSD in my job, though |
| 15:37.28 | emcnabb | it's so nice |
| 15:37.50 | emcnabb | the thing is that gentoo has added a lot of features from the BSD versions |
| 15:37.59 | emcnabb | I've used both and gentoos is 10x better |
| 15:38.04 | Hanuman | that's cool |
| 15:38.05 | hans | that's like saying you'd rather use Slackware than Fedora because it's been around longer. That's not necessarily the best criteria (although often a good thing) |
| 15:39.50 | Hanuman | I hear Slackware's making a comeback - I seem to see more people using it these days |
| 15:41.12 | Hanuman | Most of my *nix experience has been in Mandrake, FreeBSD, and RedHat, although I've also tried Corel Linux and Caldera Linux before (I quickly switched to another distro after trying those) |
| 15:41.41 | Hanuman | RedHat has seemed to work best in the business environments I've been in |
| 15:42.10 | Hanuman | (among those that I mentioned) |
| 15:42.17 | Hanuman | although FreeBSD wasn't too bad either |
| 15:46.46 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 15:46.46 | *** topic/#utah is http://sllug.org http://plug.org http://uug.byu.edu http://fslc.usu.edu http://www.ldsoss.org |
| 15:46.46 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 15:47.42 | Hanuman | hans: are there versions of the install with newere kernels on them? The version of 2.4 that was on the CD I was working with just didn't seem to like my SIS card. RedHat's default kernel gives me no problems. |
| 15:47.43 | hans | it's ok, Hanuman. I gave up the first two or three times on Debian too. Well, define give up - I installed it on my family's computer (the only thing we could find at the software store and downloading was out of the question) |
| 15:47.50 | hans | and got it working but didn't use it myself |
| 15:48.16 | Hanuman | s/newere/newer/ |
| 15:48.28 | hans | there may be. There's been talk of upgrading the install CDs for woody with a fresh kernel |
| 15:48.58 | hans | frankly for debian newcomers I agree with Halcrow - the best way is to use knoppix and install it to the hard drive. you get more cruft but hardware is not an issue. |
| 15:49.05 | Hanuman | Maybe I'll have to download all the CD images manually and do a manual install, then copy over a fresh kernel from one of my other computers |
| 15:49.44 | Hanuman | hans: but I like to learn the hard way - I just give it a hard time until I get it working ;-) |
| 15:51.26 | Hanuman | I still need to learn the deb install methods - ie how to download a kernel deb and install it, etc. - I hate installing from source if I don't have to. |
| 15:51.33 | Hanuman | except in certain instances |
| 15:51.47 | Hanuman | brb |
| 15:57.45 | Hanuman | back |
| 16:00.30 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@dsl.dyn.02-59.budget.net) |
| 16:03.30 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@128.187.136.156) |
| 16:16.46 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 16:16.46 | *** topic/#utah is http://sllug.org http://plug.org http://uug.byu.edu http://fslc.usu.edu http://www.ldsoss.org |
| 16:16.46 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 16:31.53 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 16:31.53 | *** topic/#utah is http://sllug.org http://plug.org http://uug.byu.edu http://fslc.usu.edu http://www.ldsoss.org |
| 16:31.53 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 16:31.56 | levi | So, either wait, or don't worry about the camera bit. They really suck now, they're just toys. |
| 16:32.05 | Hanuman | I do like the keyboard on the treo, though |
| 16:32.29 | levi | I took a picture of the Blackbird in the Museum of Flight in Seattle. I showed it to some people on the phone, and they couldn't even tell there was an airplane in the picture. |
| 16:32.34 | Hanuman | does the i500 have option for a headphone jack so you can listen to mp3's? |
| 16:32.42 | levi | Nope, doesn't play mp3s. |
| 16:32.57 | levi | Only has 16mb of storage. |
| 16:33.02 | Hanuman | treo allows for that, too with an adaptor and 3rd-party software |
| 16:33.21 | levi | If you want something that's mostly a PDA but with phone capabilities, the i500 is not for you. |
| 16:33.52 | levi | I want something that's mostly a phone, but with decent calendar/todo/contact software. |
| 16:34.18 | Hanuman | yeah - I'm looking for a replacement PDA mainly - I don't use cellphones much |
| 16:34.32 | Hanuman | but I would probably use the wireless web and e-mail functionality a bit |
| 16:34.38 | levi | What I love about the i500 is that it's a better Palm than my current Palm V, and it's the same size as my current phone. |
| 16:34.51 | Hanuman | that's cool |
| 16:35.20 | Hanuman | It's tempting to wait till later on in the year next year. Seems like alot of companies are moving more towards the "smart-phone" idea |
| 16:35.34 | levi | My Palm V works fine for me, except that the power button is semi-broken and it's awkward to carry around along with the phone. |
| 16:35.56 | Hanuman | I've got a bulky black and white Handspring Visor right now |
| 16:35.58 | *** join/#utah irmer (~irmer@tispc14.informatik.uni-hamburg.de) |
| 16:36.39 | levi | The Treo600 would be a pretty good PDA, I think. I'm less interested because it's about 1.5x as thick as my Palm V, even though it's smaller in the other dimensions. |
| 16:36.42 | Hanuman | uh oh - I see a vim/emacs war coming on PLUG |
| 16:37.12 | Hanuman | yeah - makes sense. It's still smaller than my current Handspring, so I don't really mind |
| 16:37.14 | levi | I dunno, I'd have to see if it was really okay to carry around in my pocket all the time. |
| 16:37.28 | Hanuman | I'd probably carry it on my belt |
| 16:38.03 | Jayce^ | ooh, yeah, art's comments are quite funny :) |
| 16:39.11 | Hanuman | His quote needs to go on vim's website |
| 16:41.03 | Hanuman | The thing I've always like about Handspring (I guess now Palm) is it's extensibility - alot can be added to them to extend their use |
| 16:41.39 | Hanuman | alot of the PDA's are getting more that way, though, so I guess it's up to which one is best |
| 16:44.42 | levi | If I didn't want phone capabilities, I'd look seriously at a Palm Tungsten. |
| 16:46.44 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@cpe-66-87-26-31.ut.sprintbbd.net) |
| 16:46.52 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@cpe-66-87-26-31.ut.sprintbbd.net) |
| 18:12.28 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 18:12.28 | *** topic/#utah is http://sllug.org http://plug.org http://uug.byu.edu http://fslc.usu.edu http://www.ldsoss.org |
| 18:12.28 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 18:13.14 | hans | synic: cvs update -A\ |
| 18:13.17 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@65.218.37.130) |
| 18:13.20 | hans | without the backslash. doh |
| 18:13.54 | synic | ah, ok |
| 18:13.54 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 18:14.22 | hans | you guys have it all wrong. you need to go get an original pilot with Palm OS 2.05 and 2MB of memory (that's a lot for this model!). Then you will achieve true Palm utopia |
| 18:25.46 | levi | hans: You are a freak. :) |
| 18:26.04 | levi | If I wanted legacy hardware, I'd get a Newton. |
| 18:26.46 | Jayce^ | nah, just program your hp with some apps :) |
| 18:29.03 | hans | anyone tried gramps lately? just looking at the website it looks like they might be cruising along. |
| 18:29.10 | Jayce^ | not too lately.. |
| 18:29.18 | Jayce^ | last one I tried choked on my data |
| 18:29.30 | Jayce^ | couldn't handle large datasets for crap |
| 18:31.24 | hans | just about to claim DOS PAF would be an improvement over gramps' current state and want to make sure I don't put my foot in my mouth. (on LDSOSS) |
| 18:31.57 | sjansen | I found out during in my last area during the last week of my mission. Was teaching a guy with a Newton (in Brazil). Mentioned I was going to buy one when I got back and he told me Apple had sold it to Microsoft and Microsoft wasn't doing anything with it. |
| 18:32.00 | hans | it would indeed be an improvement over what I'm seeing now (gramps won't start on my system) |
| 18:32.39 | hans | make that, won't start on my work system. |
| 18:32.44 | hans | maybe has to do with nfs |
| 18:32.59 | Jayce^ | why should it care about nfs? |
| 18:33.05 | hans | dunno |
| 18:33.10 | hans | CORBA I think |
| 18:33.13 | hans | gobject.GError: Adding client to server's list failed, CORBA error: IDL:omg.org/ CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.0 |
| 18:33.30 | hans | all this stupid gnome/kde stuff goes overboard and fails to work all too often. |
| 18:33.39 | hans | KISS |
| 18:34.14 | Jayce^ | what version you trying to run? |
| 18:34.26 | hans | 0.9.5 |
| 18:35.00 | Jayce^ | just downloading rpms for that now |
| 18:35.26 | hans | (working via ssh tunnel to my home system) |
| 18:40.01 | hans | looking good. they really are making progress. I'll modify my quip |
| 18:47.02 | Jayce^ | wow, I gotta adjust the rules that debian set for my spamassassin.. |
| 18:47.10 | Jayce^ | hans email just scored 11.1 |
| 18:49.12 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:49.12 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:49.12 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:49.12 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:49.12 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:49.12 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:49.14 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:50.38 | Bradipo | He's a spammer. |
| 18:50.43 | Bradipo | Get a rope. |
| 18:51.57 | Jayce^ | forgot to get my SA settings from my old box when I set this one up. |
| 18:56.35 | *** join/#utah RedHat (~al@c-24-10-194-77.client.comcast.net) |
| 18:57.51 | Hanuman | hans: I've got close to that version - I'm running Palm OS 3.01 on my Handspring |
| 18:58.28 | Hanuman | I remember these things were supposed to be the future for PDA's, with the slots for modules, etc. |
| 18:58.43 | Hanuman | It sure takes up a bit of space in my pocket, though |
| 18:59.18 | Hanuman | levi: I just went to Best Buy on my lunch break and saw the new Treo, right next to the i500 |
| 18:59.21 | Hanuman | both are very cool |
| 18:59.58 | levi | Basically, the i500 is a sexy phone/pda, while the Treo 600 is a sexy pda/phone. |
| 19:00.06 | Hanuman | I think if I were to get the i500, though it would be a close match between that and Sony Ericsson's latest model (p800?) |
| 19:00.28 | Hanuman | The Ericsson isn't Palm OS, though, although Symbian is an Open OS |
| 19:00.50 | levi | The nice thing about having a Palm one is it'd sync with my Mac. |
| 19:01.21 | Hanuman | yeah - I think I'm sticking with Palm for now, and I need a new PDA so I'll probably go with the Treo - that was really slick |
| 19:01.52 | Hanuman | The stupid sales guy didn't even know how to use it, though - I asked him questions and he fiddled with it, and I eventually had to show him how to do what he was trying to do |
| 19:01.58 | levi | Plus, I have to wait a while if I want a non-Sprint phone. |
| 19:02.09 | Hanuman | yeah |
| 19:02.19 | Hanuman | that's the disadvantage to the p800 |
| 19:02.34 | Hanuman | if Sprint is an advantage |
| 19:03.35 | levi | Well, I couldn't figure out Verizon's network plans, but I have unlimited network usage with Sprint. |
| 19:03.57 | hans | this whole novell/ibm vs ms/sco thing is interesting. like an epic battle out of a tolkien novel. What's next, WordPerfect rises out of the ashes and 'buys' openoffice and pumps developers and $$ into it until it far surpasses Word, all in the course of a year... |
| 19:04.22 | Hanuman | that would be cool |
| 19:04.57 | Hanuman | If people saw OO at the same level as WP, it would say tons for OO |
| 19:05.22 | hans | ~lart SpamAssassin |
| 19:05.24 | levi | I dunno, WordPerfect has lost pretty much all its mindshare. |
| 19:05.49 | Hanuman | but people still see WordPerfect as the former competition for M$ |
| 19:05.51 | hans | levi: right, and so did Novell and before it adopted Linux to an extent IBM |
| 19:05.59 | levi | Hanuman: I just wish the PDA phones weren't $600. :/ |
| 19:06.12 | Hanuman | levi: yeah - I'm saving my money |
| 19:06.24 | Hanuman | It just means it will be that much longer before I get my Mac |
| 19:06.27 | emcnabb | hans, you around? |
| 19:06.51 | levi | Hanuman: $600 is only a bit less than I payed for my eMac. |
| 19:07.04 | Hanuman | yeah |
| 19:07.14 | hans | hmm, let's see - new PDA or a Mac. Long live the pilot with 2 megs! |
| 19:08.03 | Hanuman | I'm wondering how long it will be before prices start going down |
| 19:08.31 | levi | The Sprint Store woman said it usually takes about a year. |
| 19:08.58 | levi | For the Sprint phones, at least. |
| 19:09.51 | levi | Probably in a few months there will be some used ones on ebay for less. |
| 19:12.34 | Jayce^ | lol, bryan is a good example of loving java despite sun :D |
| 19:26.58 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 19:27.48 | levi | Hmm. Looks like there are some 'Buy it now' links on eBay for $520 for a Treo 600. |
| 19:31.34 | levi | You can get $150 of service credit from Sprint with a new 2-year contract. |
| 19:32.19 | Hanuman | cool - looks like Ebay will be my first point of reference then |
| 19:36.29 | *** join/#utah jayce_ (~Jayce^@65.218.37.130) |
| 19:37.39 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 19:47.45 | Hanuman | Can't remember who brought it up, but you know, one option other than merging UUG and PLUG would be to have UUG post all general Linux questions to PLUG, and BYU-specific discussion to LDSOSS |
| 19:48.31 | Hanuman | This could encourage more BYU students to use LDSOSS as a resource to promote OSS |
| 19:54.15 | Jayce^ | actually, there is something bigger starting to be cooked up.. |
| 19:54.22 | Jayce^ | you'll hear about it before too long |
| 19:54.55 | brailsmt | ooooh, secrecy... |
| 19:55.06 | Jayce^ | got a handshake and everything :D |
| 19:55.07 | Jayce^ | j/k |
| 19:59.18 | hans | Hanuman: and dump all the off-topic on the poor ldsoss members? many of them are not in the least interested in the uug off-topic discussions, or even byu-centric discussions |
| 19:59.39 | hans | in fact non-byu mormons get quite ruffled when people assume mormons want to talk about byu. :) |
| 20:01.37 | sjansen | ~slashdot |
| 20:02.37 | sjansen | ibot, you fogot to mention that computer viruses are 20 years old this week. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3257165.stm |
| 20:02.39 | | I think you lost me on that one, sjansen |
| 20:12.54 | Hanuman | hans: I have to like BYU since my wife, mom, dad, brother, sister, and brothers-in-law all graduated from there |
| 20:13.03 | Hanuman | otherwise I would understand what you are saying |
| 20:13.16 | Hanuman | ;-) |
| 20:14.22 | Hanuman | Over here in VA we have Southern Virginia University, an all-LDS college - not too many of them are fond of BYU |
| 20:14.58 | Hanuman | (at least I think that's what it's called - either Southern or Southeastern VA, can't remember) |
| 20:15.04 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, are they still not accredited? |
| 20:15.09 | Jayce^ | I remeber they weren't. |
| 20:16.57 | Hanuman | they are now |
| 20:17.16 | Hanuman | I think as of a couple years ago in fact, I don't stay on top of it, though |
| 20:18.28 | Hanuman | It's interesting - alot of people over here like to disassociate themselves with Utah completely. The people from Utah are sometimes outcasts out here. |
| 20:18.47 | Hanuman | My ward in Texas was completely different in that regard |
| 20:18.55 | tensai | think they'll ever become BYU - Virginia? |
| 20:19.08 | brailsmt | my sister in law went to SVU |
| 20:19.14 | brailsmt | she loved it |
| 20:19.19 | Hanuman | tensai: they want to - I doubt they will, though - they've tried multiple times |
| 20:19.20 | brailsmt | too expensive though |
| 20:19.31 | levi | LDS-specific cultural quirks drive me nuts. |
| 20:19.33 | Hanuman | brailsmt: that's what it seems |
| 20:21.23 | Hanuman | actually, I like aspects of both worlds |
| 20:23.25 | hans | here's something to think about (briefly): the anagram of |
| 20:23.25 | hans | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:24.52 | levi | My thought: Uh, so what? |
| 20:27.04 | tensai | so far I'm liking Gramps. I've never used PAF, though. What don't you like about it hans? |
| 20:28.40 | hans | about gramps? i tried it a while back and it was insufficient. it looks like it has come a long way since then. Jayce^ had trouble with it taking his large db a few months back. |
| 20:30.42 | Hanuman | hans: kind of like neybar ;-) |
| 20:30.57 | neybar | eh? |
| 20:31.38 | Hanuman | neybar := barney |
| 20:31.45 | Hanuman | redhat := hatred |
| 20:31.56 | neybar | ah |
| 20:32.08 | tensai | "barney" and "hatred". two words just meant for each other |
| 20:32.20 | neybar | lol |
| 20:32.35 | Hanuman | so does redhat = barney? |
| 20:33.21 | hans | sjansen: no, but it's almost like bandy (bandie) for whatever that's worth |
| 20:33.31 | hans | Hanuman: exactly |
| 20:36.06 | Jayce^ | hrm.. can gunzip recognize and uncompress a self extracting zip? |
| 20:36.35 | tensai | Jayce^: not if it's a zip as in pkzip. unzip will tho |
| 20:37.07 | tensai | it can remove it too |
| 20:37.12 | tensai | (the EXE code) |
| 20:37.14 | Jayce^ | k |
| 20:37.15 | Jayce^ | good |
| 21:00.20 | hans | wow, I haven't posted this much to ldsoss since who knows when |
| 21:10.24 | Jayce^ | tensai, that unzip worked great on the church's palm reader program, but not on avantgo's program download :/ |
| 21:10.28 | Jayce^ | anybody got that? |
| 21:11.23 | emcnabb | sjansen, you are funny |
| 21:11.31 | Jayce^ | interesting hans, all you email to lds-oss get's marked as spam to me.. but not other peoples.. |
| 21:11.49 | hans | Jayce^: your spamassasin is poorly trained. |
| 21:12.17 | tensai | Jayce^: I've never had it fail. you sure it's a zip, not maybe an arj or somesuch? |
| 21:12.29 | Jayce^ | hans, right now it's the default that came with debian.. |
| 21:12.56 | hans | well, spamassassin is by default fairly lame :) for one thing, it uses RBLs |
| 21:12.57 | hans | evil |
| 21:12.59 | Jayce^ | tensai, dunno, self executing archive.. |
| 21:13.06 | hans | looks like that might be where it's failing |
| 21:13.16 | Jayce^ | it's just funny that it doesn't like you :) |
| 21:13.43 | Bradipo | RBLs aren't evil. |
| 21:14.12 | hans | are too. ;-) |
| 21:14.18 | Bradipo | Unmanaged RBLs maybe... |
| 21:14.30 | hans | explain this: http://opm.blitzed.org/details?ip=209.210.58.42 |
| 21:14.43 | Bradipo | Let me look. |
| 21:15.14 | Bradipo | Is this your IP? |
| 21:15.39 | hans | yup |
| 21:15.52 | Bradipo | Well, it looks like it is saying that you have an open proxy. |
| 21:16.01 | hans | I occasionally turn on squid to get around BYU's proxy when it's braindead (or just plain dead) |
| 21:16.22 | Bradipo | But, is that proxy open to the world and is it usable by spammers? |
| 21:16.31 | hans | looks like that's what the reporter complained about. so I, 90% of the time innocent of any relaying, get blacklisted and Jayce^ sees it as spam. |
| 21:16.34 | *** join/#utah lukfugl (~kip@67.50.41.115) |
| 21:16.50 | hans | Bradipo: I didn't think squid could be used as a spam proxy, but this page thinks so: http://opm.blitzed.org/fix?ip=209.210.58.42 |
| 21:16.57 | Bradipo | It can be. |
| 21:17.10 | Bradipo | There are hundreds of misconfigured proxies out there that allow spammers to relay email. |
| 21:17.15 | lukfugl | is this where I sign up for the ibot abuse lessons? |
| 21:17.59 | Jayce^ | ~lart lukfugl |
| 21:18.04 | Jayce^ | ooohhh |
| 21:18.11 | Bradipo | http://opm.blitzed.org/209.210.58.42 according to that page it is no longer active. |
| 21:18.39 | hans | i just 'removed' it |
| 21:19.09 | hans | so soon Jayce^ will not have problems with my email. he'd be wiser to not use RBLs, IMNSHO |
| 21:19.34 | hans | a simple bayesian filter does much better than an RBL and doesn't cause these sorts of troubles. |
| 21:19.36 | Jayce^ | hans, hehe.. nah, I just don't like you :) |
| 21:19.38 | Bradipo | Well, I disagree. Certainly some RBLs are less useful than others. |
| 21:19.44 | Bradipo | RBL blocks it at the source. |
| 21:19.54 | Jayce^ | I just have a new box, and don't have SA's bayesian running yet.. |
| 21:19.55 | Bradipo | Bayesian filter requires that you accept the email and use up resources. |
| 21:20.10 | Bradipo | But of course if you are using RBL in SA then it is the same. |
| 21:20.33 | Bradipo | I don't recommend using all RBLs, but there are some that are well maintained. |
| 21:20.47 | Bradipo | And if you have a proxy running, I better not receive spam from your system. ;-) |
| 21:21.07 | Bradipo | I personally wouldn't use the blitzed.org RBL. |
| 21:21.25 | hans | like I said, I run it occasionally and then turn it off. completely innocent. I don't have the RAM to be running squid all the time. :) |
| 21:21.52 | Bradipo | I don't really care if people run proxies, but if they allow spammers to abuse them, that's another story. |
| 21:22.12 | hans | i admit this is news to me that you can use a proxy to send email. how does that work? |
| 21:22.30 | Bradipo | Well, it's only misconfigured proxies... |
| 21:22.35 | lukfugl | ouch, that was a mean one, jayce :) |
| 21:22.46 | Bradipo | But basically they generate an HTTP request that submits a document in some way. |
| 21:22.56 | Bradipo | Then it injects it into your local MTA. |
| 21:23.31 | Bradipo | So, while your MTA may not allow relaying from my IP address, it will most certainly allow relaying from local submission. |
| 21:24.03 | hans | do you know if squid is 'misconfigured' by default? were they saying mine was misconfigured, or just proxying and open? |
| 21:24.18 | Bradipo | Well, it really isn't apparent from that link. |
| 21:24.28 | Bradipo | They don't seem to go into much detail. |
| 21:25.05 | *** join/#utah byron (~byron@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 21:25.22 | Bradipo | It seems to be saying that you have an ``open proxy'' |
| 21:25.27 | Bradipo | Meaning that you allow others to use the proxy. |
| 21:25.48 | Bradipo | And that you should reconfigure it to only allow authorized users. |
| 21:26.16 | Bradipo | So, while yours may not allow relaying, it is nevertheless an open proxy. |
| 21:26.32 | Bradipo | That is what it says. |
| 21:26.48 | hans | is an open proxy a problem, or just a misconfigured open proxy? |
| 21:26.57 | Bradipo | That's a good question. |
| 21:27.08 | Bradipo | Maybe an open proxy is misconfigured. :-) |
| 21:27.13 | tensai | an open proxy is a problem waiting to happen |
| 21:27.44 | Bradipo | http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/openrelay.htm |
| 21:27.55 | Bradipo | There's an interesting document by the FTC... |
| 21:28.07 | tensai | basically you're allowing anyone to connect anywhere through your box |
| 21:28.13 | Bradipo | Yep. |
| 21:29.42 | tensai | hanse: I can help you with some Squid acls if you want |
| 21:29.50 | tensai | s/hanse/hans/ |
| 21:30.34 | hans | i'll remember that next time I need to use the internet and BYU's transparent proxy is dead |
| 21:31.26 | Jayce^ | tensai, might be good to post them on the list.. |
| 21:31.41 | Jayce^ | I was thinking of doing some squid + dans on my box, so I'd probably want to see them too |
| 21:32.01 | tensai | there's nothing really tough about them. the default Debian install is secure |
| 21:34.44 | tensai | Jayce^: I'll see if I can put together something informative |
| 21:34.56 | hans | tensai: ah, well then I would be secure. I used the default debian instal |
| 21:35.45 | *** join/#utah Oberon (~mirc@c-24-2-92-91.client.comcast.net) |
| 21:37.03 | Oberon | So this is where we exchange flames and discuss off-topic miscellanea, right? |
| 21:37.30 | hans | only after you've been initiated |
| 21:37.30 | tensai | hans: are you using ssh tunnelling? |
| 21:37.35 | hans | ~lart Oberon |
| 21:37.47 | hans | tensai: to do what? |
| 21:37.49 | Oberon | what's lart again? |
| 21:38.01 | hans | luser attitude readjustment tool |
| 21:38.05 | Oberon | oh yeah |
| 21:38.11 | tensai | to forward the proxy port? or is the port open? |
| 21:39.51 | hans | tensai: I guess I may have opened it. I can't seem to find the squid config files |
| 21:39.59 | tensai | /etc/squid.conf |
| 21:40.38 | tensai | default has allow localhost, deny all so either you modified that or are using ssh |
| 21:40.44 | hans | oh, it helps to be logged into the correct machine. :) |
| 21:42.01 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@208.187.199.250) |
| 21:42.50 | hans | tensai: is ip/netmask valid syntax for an allow line? |
| 21:43.00 | hans | looks like I did open it. |
| 21:43.18 | tensai | yes |
| 21:44.47 | tensai | I'd recommend using ssh instead. has the nice effect of obscuring your surfing from IT services. :) |
| 21:45.45 | hans | good idea. I'll remember that in the future. I'm sure I opened it in sheer exasperation because I _needed_ the net and the proxy was broken. |
| 21:46.39 | *** join/#utah tomeast (~teastmond@63-253-57-90.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 21:48.36 | emcnabb | later all |
| 21:48.55 | Oberon | what happened, Hans? |
| 21:52.54 | hans | my mail server was RBL'ed by an RBL (now that's odd english) because I sporadically momentarily have squid set up to open relay |
| 21:54.58 | Oberon | ahhh |
| 21:55.16 | Oberon | so you had squid set up to open relay for just a bit and they caught it quick like? |
| 21:56.18 | Oberon | seems pretty impressive, even if it is a pain to deal with. |
| 21:56.43 | Jayce^ | definately can see how it could be abused.. |
| 21:58.09 | Oberon | What's the general consensus about RBL's? I've only heard bad things about them, but that was all from non-technical users. |
| 22:01.59 | neybar | does anyone know how to recursively change the modes on a dir without changing the mode on the dir itself? I am trying to remove the executable attribute, but once it removes the executable bit on the dir it stops processing. |
| 22:02.16 | *** join/#utah jason_u (~jason@208.187.199.44) |
| 22:02.35 | hans | neybar: you could use find and xargs |
| 22:02.54 | tensai | neybar: find dir -type d -exec chmod ugo-x {} \; |
| 22:03.07 | hans | Oberon: i'm a technical user and you would hear only bad things from me. Bradipo will disagree, though. |
| 22:03.11 | tensai | er, wait. -type f |
| 22:03.31 | hans | Oberon: i'm not sure when they did it - i've had my proxy running for days at a time in the past. |
| 22:03.42 | hans | during a particularly vicious oit storm |
| 22:03.47 | Bradipo | You probably had spammers using your system as well. |
| 22:03.50 | Bradipo | Without knowing it. |
| 22:04.11 | Jayce^ | nah, it was just hans himself.. |
| 22:04.16 | Jayce^ | making some money on the side |
| 22:04.17 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 22:04.20 | brailsmt | what is an RBL? |
| 22:04.36 | Bradipo | Realtime Blackhole List |
| 22:06.01 | tensai | neybar: did that work? |
| 22:06.35 | neybar | yes |
| 22:06.54 | neybar | thanks hans and tensai |
| 22:13.12 | Hanuman | ooh...RBL wars! |
| 22:13.44 | Hanuman | and spamassassin |
| 22:14.31 | Oberon | flame on, I'll be upstairs fixing more hot chocolate ;) |
| 22:14.36 | Hanuman | in relation to SPAM, AOL is now blocking anyone with a dynamic IP |
| 22:14.53 | Hanuman | just posted that to /. - been pending all day |
| 22:15.12 | brailsmt | aol blows |
| 22:15.21 | brailsmt | they always have, always will |
| 22:15.22 | Hanuman | I can't send e-mail to my mom now |
| 22:15.32 | Hanuman | my poor parents |
| 22:15.58 | Oberon | they'll think you're dead |
| 22:16.16 | tensai | Hanuman: just bounce it through hans' box :) |
| 22:16.37 | brailsmt | doesn't everyone have a dynamic ip, nowadays? except ISPs and corps? |
| 22:16.42 | brailsmt | lol |
| 22:17.45 | Hanuman | yeah, but not everyone runs a mail server through a dynamic IP |
| 22:18.03 | Hanuman | so now I have to trust my ISP's SMTP for mail security if I want to send to AOL |
| 22:18.10 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (~sanchiro@64.122.114.148) |
| 22:19.02 | Oberon | I think we should implement mail relay DNS records |
| 22:20.17 | Oberon | and refuse mail from any domain without a sending-mail record... |
| 22:20.23 | brailsmt | well, my mail is sent through my mail server... so AOL ppl just won't get mail from me :) |
| 22:20.52 | brailsmt | though my ip is "persistant"... :D |
| 22:21.08 | brailsmt | its changed like twice in the last year... |
| 22:22.12 | brailsmt | sometimes in vim... if i forget what mode I am in, the 'kkk' will remind me... ;) |
| 22:23.49 | Hanuman | brailsmt: not sure how aol works with that. You'll have to try and let me know. |
| 22:24.30 | brailsmt | i know of no aol email addresses... |
| 22:24.41 | brailsmt | i could spam them... ;D |
| 22:25.45 | brailsmt | btw, I don't spam, nor am i sympathetic to the kkk... |
| 22:26.12 | brailsmt | :) |
| 22:46.50 | *** part/#utah tomeast (~teastmond@63-253-57-90.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 22:50.16 | *** join/#utah tomeast (~teastmond@63-253-57-90.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 23:12.34 | *** join/#utah HarleyPig (~JS@65.105.156.40) |
| 23:21.35 | Oberon | well, folks, it's off to learn how to kill people more efficiently |
| 23:23.58 | Jayce^ | oh? |
| 23:24.33 | HarleyPig | That's interesting. |
| 23:24.49 | HarleyPig | Is Oberon in the military? or just militant? |
| 23:25.03 | Jayce^ | dunno |
| 23:34.27 | HarleyPig | Perl question for you Jayce^ ... I have some attributes in a html file ( <tag required="<<var>>"> ) I want to dump all the <<var>> into an array (no repeats, natch). |
| 23:35.29 | HarleyPig | Any ideas? I mean, I could loop through it, but i was hoping for an idiomatic short way to do it. |
| 23:36.20 | Jayce^ | gimmie a sec.. |
| 23:36.26 | Jayce^ | on the phone with your coworker :) |
| 23:36.42 | HarleyPig | jeremy or ryan? |
| 23:37.38 | Jayce^ | dan |
| 23:38.04 | HarleyPig | Ah |
| 23:44.58 | Bradipo | I read a rumor that AT&T is now only allowing whitelisted IPs. |
| 23:44.59 | Jayce^ | well, the loop would probably just be fastest to get out, and be the least likely to require debugging.. |
| 23:45.07 | Jayce^ | so 'd go with that |
| 23:45.12 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, I heard they did a retraction on that.. |
| 23:45.17 | Bradipo | Bummer. |
| 23:45.27 | Bradipo | I thought that was the most bold attack at the spam problem ever. |
| 23:45.34 | Bradipo | I was actually hoping it would happen. |
| 23:45.37 | HarleyPig | Jayce^: Actually, I figgerd it out |
| 23:45.46 | Jayce^ | apparently they caught a lot of heat.. forcing it form people.. |
| 23:45.57 | HarleyPig | my @r = $$shell =~ /required=["'](.*?)\1/g; |
| 23:47.09 | Jayce^ | ah |
| 23:47.36 | HarleyPig | But I think that'll pick up duplicates. |
| 23:49.40 | HarleyPig | Ooops. Problems. |
| 23:50.44 | HarleyPig | my @r = $$shell =~ /required=(["'])(.*?)\1/g; gives '"', 'var1', '"', 'var2' ... |
| 23:50.57 | *** part/#utah tomeast (~teastmond@63-253-57-90.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 23:52.34 | HarleyPig | Ok ... ready for this? |
| 23:53.00 | HarleyPig | my %r = map { $_ => 1 } $$shell =~ /required=(['"])(.*?)\1/g; |