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| 13:10.59 | Hanuman | morning |
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| 14:28.00 | hans | morning scott |
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| 14:36.49 | scott | stuart.. good morning |
| 14:36.51 | scott | hi hans |
| 14:37.02 | sjansen | Morning. |
| 14:37.05 | scott | hans: I just finally got apt-get install to install 2.4.22 kernel image.. |
| 14:37.21 | sjansen | hans: Do youhave Dan C.'s contact information? |
| 14:37.37 | scott | it's asking about a boot block.... whether to instlal using the existing /etc/lilo.conf |
| 14:38.03 | scott | do I say Y or N? I'd also rather just run GRUB once this gets finished installing.. |
| 14:39.45 | scott | I don't want to choose unwisely, and then not be able to boot the next time . |
| 14:48.36 | hans | sjansen: I have his email, yes |
| 14:49.15 | hans | scott: it won't hurt to run lilo and then install grub |
| 14:49.29 | Jayce^ | hans, so did you have an extra ticket or something? |
| 14:49.32 | hans | won't hurt to not run lilo either - you're pretty safe here |
| 14:49.44 | hans | Jayce^: no extras |
| 14:50.01 | scott | well, does that mean, answer yes? or no? to install a boot block? |
| 14:50.08 | hans | just say no |
| 14:50.27 | scott | hehee, like with drugs...eh? just say no |
| 14:50.31 | hans | Jayce^: you plan to sell Tyler his ticket then? |
| 14:50.45 | scott | wipe out old lilo configuration and create a new one? |
| 14:50.53 | hans | scott: no |
| 14:50.59 | scott | the default is no |
| 14:51.00 | scott | ok |
| 14:51.31 | hans | Jayce^: I gave Dan his ticket. I now have 6 remaining, for: me, jacob, von, von, jordan, micah |
| 14:51.51 | hans | and you sell Tyler his, right? |
| 14:52.05 | Jayce^ | oh, I had dans ticket, and gave it to stuart |
| 14:52.10 | Jayce^ | Tyler? |
| 14:52.24 | hans | oh, ok. then stuart can give me dan's ticket which will now be tyler's ticket. :) |
| 14:52.30 | Jayce^ | k |
| 14:52.32 | hans | tyler is dan's friend |
| 14:52.37 | Jayce^ | works |
| 14:53.40 | hans | hear that stuart? |
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| 14:54.27 | scott | hans: thanks..it just returns the prompt..should I reboot now and see if it took? if it boots up the new kernel? anything else I need to tweak before reboot? |
| 14:55.32 | sjansen | hans: Nope. I won't be giving it to you in class today. I sold it for $100 to a rabid fan. ;-) |
| 14:56.06 | hans | scott: have you installed grub yet? |
| 14:56.46 | hans | scott: won't do much good to reboot until you do, unless you answered yes to the first lilo question |
| 14:58.47 | scott | no, haven't installed grub yet |
| 15:02.48 | scott | hans: ok, I will try installing grub, would it be apt-get install grub |
| 15:02.53 | hans | yup |
| 15:02.58 | hans | then you need to run grub-install |
| 15:03.14 | hans | then update-grub, then edit /boot/grub/menu.lst, then run update-grub again |
| 15:04.57 | scott | when it asks for install_device what do I tell it for that? |
| 15:05.26 | scott | grub-install just brings up the help and options screen, returning a prompt |
| 15:05.35 | scott | update-grub |
| 15:06.04 | scott | ok..just running update-grub.. |
| 15:06.34 | scott | format of install_device not recognized..so I guess I have to tell it something for that.. |
| 15:11.32 | scott | I cd'd to /boot/grub, found 'device.map' there, the only file in that directory and entered 'grub-install device.map' but still just get the help screen...with it indicating the format of install_device not being recognized |
| 15:13.36 | hans | sorry, grub-install /dev/hda |
| 15:14.11 | scott | ok |
| 15:14.50 | scott | hans: I am booting from /dev/hda, but we aren't using /dev/hda1..as that partition of /dev/hda is bad, right? but still booting from it |
| 15:14.58 | hans | right |
| 15:15.31 | hans | unless you can set your bios to read the boot sector off of hdb |
| 15:15.33 | scott | ok...it worked though..so I'll do the other steps now |
| 15:16.10 | hans | scott: you probably won't have to edit /boot/grub/menu.lst but it probably wouldn't hurt to look at it and see if there's anything you want to customize |
| 15:17.51 | hans | actually you might have to set your kopt line to make sure root=/dev/hdb3 |
| 15:32.34 | scott | hans: once I have done all that... |
| 15:33.12 | scott | hans: yeah, it configured that with root=/dev/hdb3 |
| 15:33.15 | scott | ok...cool |
| 15:33.36 | scott | I should be able to reboot now and have it try to load the 2.4.22 kernel.. |
| 15:39.15 | scott | going to reboot...if I don't return soon, it's cause my system got hosed.which I doubt will happen |
| 15:46.21 | Hanuman | hans: I'll peel onions in a submarine anytime - just don't make me peel submarines in an onion. That would be torture. |
| 15:48.18 | Hanuman | Didn't know PHP had such bad character encoding capabilities |
| 15:48.53 | Hanuman | That is very important to me - I speak, read, and write Thai fluently, which will not show up correctly in normal character-encoding schemes |
| 15:49.13 | Hanuman | well, fluently is relatively speaking |
| 15:50.18 | synic | Hanuman: I didn't think PHP had any character encoding capabilities |
| 15:50.35 | synic | as in... it's all up to your browser. |
| 15:51.08 | Jayce^ | synic, it's important that your language support it in the backend, for things like string manipulation, searching, etc.. |
| 15:51.10 | Hanuman | See hans's article - very informative: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html |
| 15:51.21 | Jayce^ | perl's support just grew greatly with 5.8.1 |
| 15:51.38 | Hanuman | yup - and it's always at least had some sort of support for it. |
| 15:52.03 | Hanuman | hans: this is one of the best articles I've seen on this topic |
| 15:52.26 | synic | hrmm |
| 15:53.27 | synic | I need to learn another language so I can worry about these things |
| 15:53.43 | Jayce^ | yeah, but until 5.8.0 (well, 5.6 for the first level) it was always external, now it's core |
| 15:55.37 | Hanuman | Jayce^: very smart on Perl's part |
| 15:55.46 | Hanuman | Now Allen at OGF can't complain |
| 15:55.50 | Hanuman | ;-) |
| 15:56.39 | Jayce^ | oh, he would anyways |
| 15:58.21 | Hanuman | (anyone seen daddy-daycare?) |
| 15:59.32 | synic | bleh. wouldn't it be cool if the sllug had meetings? |
| 15:59.44 | synic | or at least posted the ones they will be having on their site? |
| 16:00.35 | Jayce^ | hehe |
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| 16:06.25 | scott | hans: I booted up ok, to 2.4.22 kernel |
| 16:11.41 | Hanuman | cool - he quotes Larry Wall in this article |
| 16:12.28 | scott | I can't get X to load up though, so no graphical interface ever comes up..I have installed gdm and gnome too..or at least made the attemp |
| 16:18.58 | scott | hanuman: any ideas about my X problem? |
| 16:19.05 | scott | hanuman: what distro do you run? |
| 16:21.25 | Hanuman | scott: check your X logs - see if they are producing any errors |
| 16:22.02 | Hanuman | Just to make sure I understand - you are typing in "startx", and nothing happens, right? |
| 16:32.14 | scott | hanu: no, I didn't type anything. I rebooted, and have installed gnome, plus gdm to get me to a grahical login..and hopefully run gnome after that.. |
| 16:35.52 | Hanuman | does it give you a text login then? |
| 16:36.24 | Hanuman | if so, type "startx" - if that gets you into X, then X is working - you just need to get gdm working |
| 16:37.06 | Hanuman | sorry - login, then type "startx" |
| 16:43.10 | scott | ok...I am apt-getting x-window-system..installing that..then will reboot and see if it opens as anticipated |
| 16:43.34 | scott | typing startx gives a ton of error messages,telling me basically that X is not set up correctly.. |
| 16:43.58 | Hanuman | well it may not necessarily be your X installation. It just may not be configured correctly. |
| 16:44.17 | Hanuman | at least do an update of it to make sure you have the latest version |
| 16:54.17 | scott | hanuman: I ran the updates..and I think it took, no errors this round.. |
| 16:54.38 | scott | is there anyway to check, other than just starting X, or running gdm to load the graphical interface? |
| 16:55.15 | Jayce^ | check your /var/log there is an xfree86 log in there.. |
| 16:55.30 | Jayce^ | but you do have to run it |
| 17:01.26 | scott | ok..I ran 'starx' and now have x running in another virtual machine.. |
| 17:01.37 | scott | it doesn't do anything and I can't get it to close..but it loaded up.. |
| 17:04.54 | Hanuman | scott: what do you mean by "virtual machine"? |
| 17:05.14 | scott | well, at another console |
| 17:05.16 | scott | sorry, |
| 17:06.10 | Hanuman | oh - okay |
| 17:06.23 | Hanuman | can you get back to that console? |
| 17:09.42 | scott | yeah, |
| 17:09.51 | scott | it closed out fine..and I got the console back |
| 17:10.01 | Hanuman | Jayce^: is it just me or does McNabb remind you of Allen Eaton? |
| 17:10.18 | Jayce^ | why?? |
| 17:10.27 | Hanuman | scott: so when you run it in the current console, does X start |
| 17:10.46 | Hanuman | Jayce^: some of his attitudes and presumptions towards Linux programmers |
| 17:11.33 | Jayce^ | you mean Mcbride right? not mcnabb :D |
| 17:11.44 | Jayce^ | mcbride reminds me more of Comer though |
| 17:11.55 | Hanuman | sorry - that's what I meant |
| 17:12.05 | Hanuman | That's funny - I always mix up "Mc" names |
| 17:12.31 | Hanuman | I have a girl in my Sunbeam class with the last name of "McClean" and I always say "McAllister" for some reason |
| 17:12.41 | scott | hanuman: yeah, X starts..and it gives an X screen..it's not really that intuitive..but yeah, it loads a graphical screen |
| 17:12.41 | Jayce^ | emcnabb is going to get you for being compared to mcbride |
| 17:12.43 | Hanuman | Jayce^: That's probably true |
| 17:12.59 | Jayce^ | they even look a lot alike |
| 17:13.05 | Hanuman | hehe - that's why I was confusing it - Evan submitted the article |
| 17:13.06 | scott | McBride..is that of the Darl sort? |
| 17:13.27 | scott | I know someone here works for Mr. McBride..right? |
| 17:13.47 | Hanuman | scott: so it loads, but doesn't load gnome, right? |
| 17:14.01 | scott | hanu: yeh, correct..X loads up, but no gnome in there |
| 17:14.16 | Hanuman | sounds like you need to just get it to load gnome then |
| 17:14.27 | Hanuman | I'm not sure where in Debian that is set, though |
| 17:14.56 | scott | ok... |
| 17:15.09 | scott | I am going to exit and reboot once more to see if I can figure this out. |
| 17:15.27 | Hanuman | k |
| 17:32.42 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:34.05 | Jayce^ | what's your msn account? |
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| 17:35.47 | scott | hanu: ok, I was able to get the gnome login up, but when attempting to load it..it said my setup is not right..login to failsafe or soemthign to fix it.. |
| 17:36.58 | Hanuman | not familiar with that message |
| 17:37.17 | Hanuman | can you boot into gnome from a normal text login? |
| 17:37.28 | Hanuman | through typing "startx" |
| 17:38.09 | Hanuman | oh - I remember that message now |
| 17:38.28 | Hanuman | sounds like your X Config isn't setup right |
| 17:38.53 | Hanuman | either your video drivers are being loaded wrong, aren't installed in with the kernel, or something of the like |
| 17:39.25 | Hanuman | redhat has its own X config. Anyone know if Debian has something similar? |
| 17:39.36 | Hanuman | Or what's the default X config that comes witht the latest X? |
| 17:40.23 | Hanuman | I don't think xconfigurator is in there anymore |
| 17:42.05 | Hanuman | How much you wanna bet (with the length of time they're giving it) that the next Longhorn involves a UNIX flavor in with it somehow |
| 17:42.09 | scott | hanu: I'll try just starting x again.. |
| 17:42.22 | Hanuman | scott: you can try, but I think it's configured wrong |
| 17:43.08 | Hanuman | just installing X doesn't always configure it for your video card |
| 17:43.34 | Hanuman | Also, if you don't load the right modules with the kernel when you install a new kernel, it can mess up X |
| 17:44.25 | scott | hanu: it tells me it can't open /dev/input/mice |
| 17:50.11 | Jayce^ | scott, k, you running devfs? it should make a link for you, but to do it yourself, as root make a symlink from /dev/input/mice to /dev/input/mouseX or somesuch (whatever exists in there) |
| 17:50.53 | scott | jayc: and what is 'devfs'? hehe. there's your answer |
| 17:50.59 | Jayce^ | np.. |
| 17:51.08 | Jayce^ | ask hans about how to install it.. |
| 17:51.09 | scott | I'll go in there, and see..and make the link if it's not there |
| 17:51.11 | scott | ok... |
| 17:51.37 | Hanuman | scott: you could always switch to RedHat and I could help you even further ;-) |
| 17:51.49 | Hanuman | Or you may not even need help |
| 17:51.54 | Jayce^ | yeah, there is an option for xfree to start without a mouse, but it's better for you to just get the mouse linked in right |
| 17:52.01 | scott | ok.... |
| 17:52.17 | Hanuman | That was a Debian flame, in case you couldn't tell ;-) |
| 17:52.18 | Jayce^ | basically, your conf tells it to look for a link there for the mouse.. you just need to link to your actual mouse device |
| 17:53.12 | scott | jayc: what's weird is that both /dev/input/mice and /dev/input/mouse0 exist, but you said mouseX right? |
| 17:53.22 | Hanuman | the default kernel for the install won't recognize my network card |
| 17:53.50 | scott | hanu: thanks for the offer.. |
| 17:54.14 | Hanuman | scott: I'm just joking anyway. Keep trying to figure this out. Debian's a good flavor if you can figure it out |
| 17:54.38 | scott | both mouse0 and mice are marked crw-rw---- with ls -al |
| 17:54.45 | scott | what does the c there mean? |
| 17:54.50 | Hanuman | All the distros have their own way of doing certain types of things, though, so you have to know the mindset for the distro you're working on |
| 17:54.51 | scott | ok |
| 17:55.00 | scott | hanu: it's worked fine for me... |
| 17:55.12 | scott | I'll persist..until I conquer all these challenges |
| 17:55.24 | scott | I'll be back in 5.. |
| 17:55.37 | Hanuman | I had the same problems w/ Redhat when I was first using it |
| 17:55.47 | Hanuman | still have problems at times |
| 17:56.44 | Hanuman | Jayce^: KDE's support for svg is making me want to switch to KDE |
| 18:07.22 | levi | I like KDE now. |
| 18:07.24 | levi | I used to hate it. |
| 18:07.48 | levi | Kind of like I used to hate mustard, but now I like it since I've discovered fancier varieties. |
| 18:10.00 | Hanuman | The newer versions are getting very pretty |
| 18:10.13 | Jayce^ | scott, X meant replace with the number :) |
| 18:10.15 | Hanuman | I think they're getting my Mac idea |
| 18:10.54 | Hanuman | levi: does KDE still have the animated icons that can get bigger when you mouse-over? |
| 18:11.25 | levi | Animated icons? You can make the menubar icons grow when you mouseover, but I hate that so I never use it. |
| 18:11.25 | Jayce^ | they aren't animated, but it's an option for the kasbar to have them get bigger |
| 18:11.38 | Hanuman | yeah - that's what I meant |
| 18:11.46 | Hanuman | cool - is it still pretty slow? |
| 18:11.54 | Jayce^ | no |
| 18:12.15 | Hanuman | Maybe I'll install it tonight and see if I like it |
| 18:12.53 | Hanuman | but it must be stable |
| 18:13.01 | Jayce^ | kde is that. |
| 18:13.16 | Hanuman | cool |
| 18:31.39 | scott | levi: I am used to gnome...can I install and run kde too, while I try to figure out my gnome trouble? |
| 18:31.55 | Jayce^ | yeah, you can switch between |
| 18:32.17 | scott | ok.. |
| 18:32.21 | scott | back after lunch |
| 18:36.12 | Hanuman | scott: I don't think your problem is related to gnome, but rather X - at least the errors your getting |
| 18:36.20 | Hanuman | now graphical login is another story |
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| 18:40.26 | Hanuman | Jayce^: so is unicode automatically built into the STDIN, vars, and STDOUT functions in perl 5.8.1? |
| 18:40.41 | Hanuman | or do I have to use specific unicode functions? |
| 18:58.54 | hans | ok, I only skimmed it, but please hold your debian flames |
| 18:59.06 | hans | the problem is that he's running gnome 2 now and he was using 1.4 |
| 18:59.09 | hans | so flame gnome |
| 18:59.11 | hans | X was running fine. |
| 18:59.59 | hans | scott: ignore /dev/input/mice unless you have a usb mouse. it shouldn't harm anything |
| 19:01.43 | hans | scott: try moving ~/.gnome and related directories (i.e. anything from ls -a ~ that looks like it might be somehow related to gnome) |
| 19:01.46 | hans | and starting afresh |
| 19:07.05 | Hanuman | redhat would have taken care of all the .gnome stuff ;-) |
| 19:07.14 | Hanuman | at least it has in the past |
| 19:07.32 | Hanuman | I'm just having fun throwing unnecessary flames out |
| 19:08.22 | hans | so gnome doesn't take care of it's own backwards-compatibility and depends on distros/users to do it? bad form. |
| 19:08.59 | Hanuman | no - just my experience has been that redhat's rpms built for those upgrades have taken care of those issues |
| 19:09.09 | Hanuman | it might still be gnome's original problem |
| 19:10.35 | Hanuman | I agree - it is bad form for gnome to do that |
| 19:10.48 | Hanuman | (if that's what happened) |
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| 20:00.50 | scott | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:01.33 | scott | hans: where should I move the ~/.gnome stuff? |
| 20:02.35 | scott | hans: what if I just removed gnome and had it then reinstall, after removal? |
| 20:06.27 | sjansen | What are we accusing Gnome of? |
| 20:06.37 | sjansen | They were very careful to maintain compatibility. |
| 20:16.58 | scott | hmmm |
| 20:40.05 | Hanuman | http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1335241,00.asp |
| 20:40.17 | Hanuman | Now if only Mac can implement this into the PowerBook |
| 20:54.59 | scott | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:55.00 | scott | here |
| 20:57.34 | scott | back in a while |
| 21:19.52 | Jayce^ | hrm, anybody here know if image magick has a pdf to jpg format? |
| 21:26.57 | Jayce^ | yup |
| 21:40.35 | Jayce^ | now, you want a real 3d screen... |
| 21:40.38 | Jayce^ | http://www.elumens.com/products/visionstation.html |
| 21:42.38 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:42.40 | Jayce^ | ...but as a timesaver, it comes with its own RIAA and MPAA subpoenas attached. |
| 21:47.49 | brailsmt | can an abstract class provide a constructor that subclasses can call? |
| 21:47.51 | brailsmt | in C++ |
| 21:56.38 | *** join/#utah scott_ (~scott@64.122.114.148) |
| 21:59.27 | *** join/#utah bonez98 (~scott@64.122.114.148) |
| 22:08.26 | *** join/#utah tyce (~tyce@ts64.vps2.iserver.net) |
| 22:14.51 | bonez98 | hi tyce |
| 22:35.48 | bonez98 | anyone? |
| 22:35.58 | Hanuman | I'm here, kinda |
| 22:36.56 | Hanuman | anyone know of a graphical yum package to work with yum in installing rpms? |
| 22:38.03 | bonez98 | hanu: you don't use a palm do you? or other PDA? |
| 22:38.09 | bonez98 | trying to get mine workin.. |
| 22:38.29 | Hanuman | yeah - what type of palm do you have? |
| 22:38.46 | bonez98 | m505 |
| 22:38.54 | bonez98 | trying to get it to sync with pilot-xfer |
| 22:39.08 | Hanuman | what problems are you having? |
| 22:39.45 | bonez98 | can't get it to work with the synch..not working right... |
| 22:40.13 | Hanuman | errors? what's it doing? |
| 22:40.38 | bonez98 | well when I hit the sync button, I get error messages on the screen, so linux can see my palm cradle, but can't really do much with it yet |
| 22:41.10 | Hanuman | what errors? |
| 22:42.09 | bonez98 | it's like both are talking, but in a different language.. |
| 22:42.28 | Hanuman | what are the errors you're getting? |
| 22:44.09 | bonez98 | I'll have to try this later..have to run now |
| 22:44.19 | Hanuman | k |