| 02:02.28 | *** join/#utah Beandog (~Beandog@12-255-24-195.client.attbi.com) |
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| 13:24.26 | Hanuman | good morning all |
| 13:32.15 | Hanuman | cool - new version of XFce available today |
| 13:32.22 | Hanuman | I still need to try that one out |
| 13:42.05 | Hanuman | Man - Mozilla has improved leaps and bound in it's html support |
| 13:42.28 | Hanuman | it used to be I had to program for Mozilla and it would usually work in IE |
| 13:42.45 | Hanuman | Now I have to program for IE and it almost always works in Mozilla |
| 13:43.04 | Hanuman | s/program/write html/ |
| 13:43.35 | Hanuman | it's frustrating in some ways the lack of xhtml and css support ie has |
| 13:43.36 | hans | anyone know how to convince cron/anacron to do its daily jobs at, say, 3 in the morning instead of 7:30ish? |
| 13:44.21 | Hanuman | never needed to do it. I'd have to look it up |
| 13:59.06 | hans | ok, anacron basically picks up missed jobs when needed, but otherwise cron does things. So I just had to change /etc/crontab |
| 14:01.15 | hans | ok, I was wrong. at least on Debian the default crontab looks like "test -e /usr/sbin/anacron || run-parts ..." |
| 14:03.42 | hans | so anacron does do them. I'll use at to have anacron run at 4am |
| 14:04.00 | hans | that will keep it from running at 7:45 every morning. |
| 14:10.03 | *** join/#utah skidd (~skidd@205.158.184.116) |
| 14:21.25 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@byu079633wks.byu.edu) |
| 14:22.20 | Hanuman | man it's a pain to get css to work the same in both mozilla and IE |
| 14:22.44 | Hanuman | I think I finally got it, though - 3 columns w/o tables is nearly impossible for cross-browser compatibility |
| 14:22.58 | Hanuman | (see http://www.thestays.org/ldsoss.html) |
| 14:23.10 | Hanuman | it's not nearly finished, but I have 3 columns now |
| 14:23.28 | Hanuman | I need to figure out how to get thin borders in IE |
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| 15:11.06 | sjansen | Gotta love the security product we're using. |
| 15:11.30 | sjansen | At the moment I log in as myself and it thinks I'm root. |
| 15:13.00 | sjansen | Another fine product by a company known by it's two letter name. |
| 15:24.37 | jalance | lol |
| 15:34.38 | Hanuman | gotta love that feature |
| 15:36.11 | Hanuman | question - who came out with "where the streets have no name" first - Pet Shop Boys or U2? |
| 15:37.50 | Hanuman | I'm listening to the Pet Shop Boys singing it for the first time right now |
| 15:38.00 | Hanuman | Can't figure out when this version was released, though |
| 15:39.16 | Hanuman | it's on their discography album |
| 15:39.22 | sjansen | http://www.petshopboys.net/html/interviews/behaviuor013.shtml |
| 15:40.41 | Hanuman | ok - that's what I though |
| 15:40.45 | Hanuman | t |
| 15:42.46 | levi | Hah, I like Bono's quote in that article. |
| 15:43.34 | levi | The Interpol show rocked, by the way. |
| 16:06.47 | jalance | grr! gcc 2.96 blows |
| 16:07.43 | jalance | anyone have experience running RH 7.3 and tried updating gcc? |
| 16:09.20 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@dsl.dyn.02-59.budget.net) |
| 16:13.12 | sjansen | Why are you running 7.3? |
| 16:13.29 | jalance | not my choice |
| 16:13.31 | sjansen | And why do you want to change compilers? |
| 16:14.04 | jalance | I can't use the nice cflag options like march-pentium4 |
| 16:14.57 | sjansen | So? If you're on 7.3, it's probably a production server, right? |
| 16:15.15 | jalance | yes |
| 16:15.24 | sjansen | Changing the compiler is opening a can of worms that may not be appropriate for a production system. |
| 16:15.36 | sjansen | If you as me, a compiler flag isn't worth risking system stability. |
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| 16:16.43 | sjansen | On a seperate note, I just grabbed the latest version of gaim. One of the changes is supposed to be more MSN smileys. |
| 16:17.16 | sjansen | They got ten different animated smileys. Only two aren't annoying. |
| 16:17.27 | jalance | lol |
| 16:17.29 | sjansen | And I just noticed Microsoft Bob hiding in there. |
| 16:17.42 | sjansen | As well as an XBox smiley. |
| 16:26.34 | Hanuman | is clippy there too? |
| 16:33.20 | sjansen | Thankfully no. But I think Bob is actually scarier. |
| 16:33.20 | Hanuman | I forgot how much I like the Cure |
| 16:33.34 | Hanuman | I agree with you on that one |
| 16:33.43 | Hanuman | I used to have to do tech support on MS Bob |
| 16:33.52 | Hanuman | for Gateway computers |
| 16:37.00 | jalance | ouch |
| 16:48.32 | levi | The Cure - Head on the Door is a great album. |
| 17:30.05 | sjansen | I don't know if anyone is familiar with the building across from BYU that used to belong to UVSC. |
| 17:30.15 | levi | Yup. |
| 17:30.28 | levi | Home of the computer surplus sales. |
| 17:30.35 | sjansen | That's where I work. Some co-workers that've been here for awhile just got started talking about our departments history here. |
| 17:30.52 | sjansen | The building is in lousy shape, but fascinating to explore. |
| 17:31.22 | sjansen | Shortly after they moved in, there were two rooms with and annoying wall between them. |
| 17:32.09 | sjansen | One day everybody came in to work and there was a "door". BYU: "How'd that get here." Everyone: "I don't know." BYU: "Don't do that again." |
| 17:33.07 | sjansen | There's the remains of an observatory, a radio station, a cafeteria, a couple labs with rooms entirely lined in copper. |
| 17:33.24 | levi | Heh, weird. |
| 17:34.02 | sjansen | A basketball court, extremely high power transformers for training linemen, alot of shops... |
| 17:34.49 | sjansen | We had a student employee move into one of the wings until he was discovered. It's used to store some interesting stuff like costumes and dinosaur bones. |
| 17:36.02 | sjansen | The cops used to close off the basement for training exercises, now the pre-shool plays down there. |
| 17:37.05 | sjansen | Nothing like 5 years in this building to reinforce that we're lower on the totem pole than even the history department. |
| 17:38.24 | neybar | has anyone here set up dual apache processes? I am using apache1 to handle dynamic content and apache2 to handle static content. I have my mod-rewrite rules working, now I want to add SSL capabilities to that, but I can't get things to route correctly |
| 17:38.24 | levi | What department are you in? |
| 17:49.16 | sjansen | neybar: Apache, especially SSL, creates some temporary files. They have to be put in seperate directories. |
| 17:49.30 | sjansen | Or is that not the problem you're having? |
| 17:58.14 | neybar | well I am trying to figure out if a specific connection is SSL or not |
| 17:58.35 | Jayce^ | the mod_perl lists talk about that some I know, but usually for mod_perl stuff.. |
| 17:58.53 | Jayce^ | you should be able to have your ssl config specific stuff.. |
| 17:59.03 | Jayce^ | or have your apache1 server port 443 completely |
| 18:03.18 | *** join/#utah Hanuman (~jesse@207.199.144.170) |
| 18:03.58 | sjansen | neybar: What exactly are you trying to accomplish? |
| 18:04.03 | Hanuman | Man - something with my 'net connection at home keeps going out during the middle of the day. Either that or my router's going bad. |
| 18:04.33 | Hanuman | probably has something to do with the hurricane cleanups |
| 18:05.17 | Hanuman | ~\o "Spiderman is having me for dinner tonight!" ~\o |
| 18:05.17 | | Hanuman: okay |
| 18:05.29 | Hanuman | lol |
| 18:05.59 | Hanuman | Who can name the group? |
| 18:07.10 | Jayce^ | tmbg, that one is easy... |
| 18:07.31 | Hanuman | nope |
| 18:07.41 | Jayce^ | sorry, cure |
| 18:07.41 | Hanuman | think PerlHoser... |
| 18:07.48 | Hanuman | got it |
| 18:08.03 | Hanuman | Lullaby |
| 18:08.13 | Hanuman | This is one of my favorite CDs of theirs |
| 18:08.18 | Jayce^ | that's what I meant, but then you said perlhoser.. and he puts tmbg to mind first |
| 18:08.29 | Hanuman | ahh - is he a bigger tmbg fan? |
| 18:08.32 | Jayce^ | I like the all mixed up versions the best. |
| 18:08.39 | levi | Hanuman: Do you have Head on the Door? |
| 18:08.39 | Hanuman | I always think the Cure when I think of him |
| 18:08.59 | Hanuman | I have access to it. I don't own it. I can listen to any of the albums I want with Rhapsody. |
| 18:09.13 | levi | What's the Rhapsody thing you keep mentioning? |
| 18:09.15 | Hanuman | I'm not that big of a Cure fanatic - I just like their music |
| 18:09.21 | Hanuman | www.listen.com |
| 18:09.35 | levi | I'm not a fanatic either, but Head on the Door is good. |
| 18:10.24 | Hanuman | $10/mo gives you access to just about any artist on demand - you can play entire albums of theirs, just single songs, or all music by the artist and similar artists. |
| 18:10.37 | Hanuman | You can also download them for $.79 a song |
| 18:11.19 | Hanuman | It's only available on Windows, though unfortunately (AFIK) |
| 18:11.36 | Hanuman | I'm addicted to them now |
| 18:12.08 | Hanuman | I don't need to download mp3s if I can just listen to songs on demand at CD quality |
| 18:12.36 | Hanuman | I'll always buy CDs just for collection's sake, but this will satisfy my listening needs. |
| 18:13.49 | Hanuman | levi: what songs are on Head on the Door? |
| 18:14.42 | Hanuman | NM |
| 18:14.50 | Hanuman | I'm listening to it now |
| 18:15.35 | *** join/#utah Hanuman_ (~jstayii@pool-141-152-52-110.rich.east.verizon.net) |
| 18:16.45 | Hanuman | Cool - my home connection's back on |
| 18:17.13 | Hanuman | Wow - the Cure has been around since before I was born (originally called "The Easy Cure") |
| 18:21.51 | levi | I use emusic.com, which doesn't have many well-known bands. There's a lot of good stuff if you can find it, though. |
| 18:23.15 | tensai | given the choice, I'd take emusic too. With Rhapsode, Pressplay, etc. it's all about streaming. But I have lots of devices that can't be streamed to. |
| 18:25.58 | levi | On the other hand, Rhapsody would be great for sampling random bands you haven't heard before that are more mainstream than emusic carries. |
| 18:28.17 | tensai | ideally, I'd like compulsory licensing for p2p music swapping so I could get recommendations from friends, download the mp3 from them and still be paying the artists. |
| 18:29.12 | Hanuman | Yeah - that was my problem with emusic - not much selection to choose from. With Rhapsody I can still download songs if I want - I just have to pay $.79 per song to do so. I would probably choose emusic over Rhapsody if they had a better selection. |
| 18:29.33 | Hanuman | tensai: I agree with you on that one |
| 19:02.07 | Jayce^ | cool, perl 5.8.1 is now the official release |
| 19:02.37 | Hanuman | Cool - what's new in this release? |
| 19:04.59 | Jayce^ | few things, some changes to hash internals, better unicode support, etc... check the changelog |
| 19:05.45 | Hanuman | I will have to do that. |
| 19:06.22 | Hanuman | Most of what I do now is on Windows, or on my system at home |
| 19:06.34 | Hanuman | At home is the only place I get to really use mod_perl nowadays |
| 19:06.47 | Jayce^ | me too..... |
| 19:06.47 | Hanuman | My last job that's all I did |
| 19:06.52 | Jayce^ | oh wait.. I work at home :D |
| 19:07.13 | Hanuman | There's a good chance I could be doing that too w/i the next year |
| 19:07.31 | Hanuman | I've stumbled upon a very entrepeneuristic man who is very pro-opensource |
| 19:07.51 | Hanuman | he wants me to do some freelance right now, but has many other projects he could have me work on if this one works out well |
| 19:08.13 | Jayce^ | that's always nice |
| 19:08.24 | Hanuman | yeah - I've got my fingers crossed |
| 19:17.05 | hans | ah, it's nice to have my familiar spam box back. I didn't realize a spam mailbox could look uglier, but start filling it with virii that claim to be from microsoft and it sure can. |
| 19:29.47 | Hanuman | spam from Microsoft is one thing, but spam claiming to be from microsoft is a whole other story ;-) |
| 19:30.33 | hans | Hanuman: I could care less whether it did come from microsoft. It's the notion of having a gazillion messages that say microsoft in the subject or from that's sickening. |
| 19:30.47 | hans | in _my_ mailbox! (even if it is a spambox) |
| 19:30.57 | Hanuman | lol |
| 19:32.37 | Hanuman | I had a really sick one the other day that I accidentally read because it said "hurricane" and the date of the hurricane in the subject, along with saying it was from "hurricane update" or something to that effect. Stupid me opened it, and in it was a huge picture of the rear-ends of half-naked ladies advertising viagra. These spammers are getting really sick and really desperate. |
| 19:32.56 | Hanuman | I don't see how someone could say spam like that should be legal |
| 19:33.27 | Hanuman | My spam filter did catch it, though - I was just stupid enough not to trust the spam filter |
| 19:34.08 | hans | heh. |
| 19:34.22 | Hanuman | I can't remember - who here is a postfix guru? (or at least knows some of it) |
| 19:34.26 | hans | that's why I use mutt |
| 19:35.10 | Hanuman | yeah - at least in mutt you get the pretty colors w/o the html |
| 19:40.57 | Jayce^ | dan hanks is a postfix guru |
| 19:44.55 | Hanuman | k - thanks - just trying to help Steve out |
| 19:53.04 | sjansen | ~slashdot |
| 19:53.11 | sjansen | Take it to 'em IBM! |
| 19:57.49 | Hanuman | That's what you get when you play with the big guys |
| 19:58.16 | Hanuman | Now this would be a defining moment for the GPL |
| 20:17.45 | Hanuman | that's my next desktop as soon as a computer frees up at home where I can install Linux |
| 20:18.02 | Hanuman | (as a desktop) |
| 20:20.20 | sjansen | Tried it yesterday. My current desktop is just too perfect. I couldn't switch. |
| 20:20.34 | sjansen | I've gotten tired of it, but nothing else works as well. |
| 20:20.39 | Hanuman | sjansen: what's your current desktop? |
| 20:22.20 | sjansen | Gnome. The panels are the important part. |
| 20:22.39 | sjansen | This is pretty much it, though I've tweaked it a bit and changed the background. http://uug.byu.edu/view_screenshot.php?id=100 |
| 20:23.21 | sjansen | Hidden at the bottom is an autohide panel dedicated solely to the window lister. |
| 20:24.08 | hans | not xfce |
| 20:24.09 | hans | xfe |
| 20:24.25 | hans | i looked at xfce too, but it's too much like cde. might be nice on a slow system though |
| 20:26.16 | sjansen | hans: url? |
| 20:26.46 | hans | sjansen: apt-get install xfe ;-) |
| 20:27.11 | sjansen | :-P |
| 20:28.02 | hans | http://www.roland65.ovh.org/xfe/xfe.html |
| 20:28.27 | sjansen | http://www.roland65.ovh.org/xfe/screenshot-s3.png takes me back to when I was learning Unix in the HP-UX labs. |
| 20:38.14 | Hanuman | Well hans, I think I'm doing it this weekend |
| 20:38.25 | Hanuman | I'm setting up dual-boot Debian on my home machine |
| 20:38.36 | Hanuman | wish me luck |
| 20:39.22 | Jayce^ | Hanuman going debian... wow! |
| 20:39.33 | Hanuman | we'll see if I like it |
| 20:39.44 | Hanuman | apt seems very powerful on debian |
| 20:39.55 | Hanuman | is 2.2_rev7 the latest iso? |
| 20:41.43 | Jayce^ | wow, that IBM countersuit has now dropped scox almost $3 today |
| 20:42.38 | Jayce^ | In the memo to the sales force, IBM also said it won't offer to indemnify its Linux customers from facing lawsuits related to intellectual property claims involving Linux. |
| 20:43.12 | Hanuman | nm on 2.2 - I think it's 3.0, isn't it? |
| 20:43.48 | Hanuman | I'm confused - I see both - is one stable and one not? which should I get? |
| 20:44.06 | Jayce^ | thus the confusion of debian begins :D |
| 20:44.10 | hans | 3.0 |
| 20:44.20 | hans | 3.0 is woody. |
| 20:44.35 | hans | ever installed debian before? |
| 20:44.39 | Hanuman | nope |
| 20:44.42 | Hanuman | first time |
| 20:44.45 | hans | i should set up a web page for this advice: |
| 20:44.47 | Hanuman | that's why I'm doing it |
| 20:45.05 | hans | don't run dselect, don't run tasksel (yet) |
| 20:45.11 | hans | once you're installed, do |
| 20:45.11 | Hanuman | ok |
| 20:46.08 | hans | apt-get install vim aptitude discover hotplug read-edid mdetect |
| 20:46.19 | hans | _then_ run tasksel |
| 20:46.30 | hans | (that will make getting X set up right easier) |
| 20:46.47 | Hanuman | there are like 8 iso's - which should I get? |
| 20:47.07 | hans | after that, edit your /etc/apt/sources.list and s/(stable|woody)/sarge/g |
| 20:47.17 | hans | apt-get update |
| 20:47.24 | hans | (actually do that before running tasksel) |
| 20:47.37 | Hanuman | k |
| 20:47.39 | hans | finally, fire up aptitude and have fun. |
| 20:47.54 | hans | just get the first CD unless you're on a modem, in which case grab one and two |
| 20:48.09 | Hanuman | k - will get the first |
| 20:49.00 | Hanuman | Is it going to be tough to set it up on one of my existing partitions? |
| 20:49.11 | hans | nope |
| 20:49.24 | Hanuman | Any chance it will detect the Windows drive letters? |
| 20:49.36 | Hanuman | I've got 4 partitions |
| 20:49.44 | hans | you mean set u pmount points automatically or set up lilo to boot windows too? |
| 20:49.52 | Hanuman | and I want one devoted to Linux, but I don't want to overwrite any of the others |
| 20:49.53 | hans | i don't remember on mount points, and lilo it will. |
| 20:49.59 | hans | oh it won't overwrite them. |
| 20:50.25 | hans | you have full steer of the process. |
| 20:50.31 | Hanuman | I think I'm just going to delete that partition through windows fdisk, and re-add it through the debian install |
| 20:50.45 | Hanuman | that way I don't have to worry about which partition is which |
| 20:51.02 | hans | you can use an existing partition, whatever. you can use fdisk or cfdisk (i think) during the install by switching (alt-f2) |
| 20:51.21 | Hanuman | cool |
| 20:54.48 | hans | of course, you *could* grab the newfangled pre-alpha installer and test that if you're up for a real challenge. Just don't do it without submitting bug reports because that would be a real waste. ;) |
| 20:55.04 | Hanuman | I want to experiment with gimp and see if I can do with it what I do with Photoshop. If so, I'll be using Linux much more. Right now I'm just using a license from work at my home computer, and I'm debating to buy a real Photoshop license or not. |
| 20:55.45 | Hanuman | hans: I'll stick with stable for the moment until I get used to Debian |
| 20:56.43 | Hanuman | Xine has also made a lot of progress and is much more compatible with my ATI AIW card, so I should have fewer problems with it as a desktop now |
| 20:58.20 | Hanuman | dang it - should have started that wget with screen so I could resume viewing it from home. |
| 21:00.04 | Hanuman | well, see you guys later. |
| 21:00.08 | *** part/#utah Hanuman (~jesse@207.199.144.170) |
| 21:48.15 | hans | if he complains that stable is too out of date remind him what he just said. ;-) |
| 21:49.36 | levi | Heh. |
| 21:49.46 | levi | Using stable would bug me. |
