| 01:17.17 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@slkcdslgw12PoolF91.slkc.uswest.net) |
| 15:04.58 | Hanuman | where's Jayce lately? |
| 15:05.41 | Hanuman | Anyway, as soon as people wake up, what's the name of Erasure's new album? |
| 15:06.29 | Hanuman | NM - "other peoples songs" |
| 15:08.59 | *** join/#utah elg (fugalh@byu080630wks.byu.edu) |
| 15:17.10 | Hanuman | Man - bestbuy.com doesn't support Mozilla (at least the search doesn't) |
| 15:17.33 | Hanuman | I'll have to e-mail them when I get a chance |
| 15:45.01 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@slkcdslgw12PoolF91.slkc.uswest.net) |
| 16:01.42 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@dsl.dyn.02-59.budget.net) |
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| 16:33.53 | Hanuman | must convince wife first |
| 16:36.22 | Hanuman | hmmm...anyone here use AT&T for their cell service? |
| 16:44.50 | tensai | Hanuman: I used to |
| 16:45.55 | tensai | service was just fine. calls had a bit of compression artifacting, but not bad. |
| 16:46.13 | tensai | internet service was as good as WAP can be |
| 16:46.26 | tensai | I got unlimited online time for free which was cool |
| 16:55.40 | Bradipo | I have AT&T wireless. |
| 17:02.25 | *** join/#utah synic|laptop (~synic@cpe-66-87-26-56.ut.sprintbbd.net) |
| 17:06.53 | synic|laptop | hey, any of you guys know anyone that is in the UUG that lives near Alpine/Highland? |
| 17:09.11 | hans | synic|laptop: as in AF? |
| 17:10.29 | synic|laptop | yeah, sort of |
| 17:10.36 | synic|laptop | a little more north |
| 17:10.44 | synic|laptop | by the mouth of AF canyon |
| 17:15.06 | hans | my brothers live in AF, not far south of the temple |
| 17:15.34 | synic|laptop | and they are in the UUG? |
| 17:17.14 | Hanuman | Darn it - AT&T isn't available in this area - they have SunCom, which uses the AT&T wireless network. |
| 17:17.29 | hans | synic|laptop: yah |
| 17:17.30 | Hanuman | The P800 uses GSM - wonder if it would still work with SunCom's network |
| 17:18.17 | synic|laptop | think they would mind giving a sponge a ride to the meetings once in a while? I've never been to one... |
| 17:19.11 | hans | i'm sure they'd be ok with it... but I think they normally are already down here (school/work) |
| 17:26.33 | tensai | Hanuman: around here they have Edge wireless which is like your SunCom. AFAICT it's the same as my AT&T was in Utah. |
| 17:27.12 | tensai | I would think that if AT&T supports GSM then SunCom would too |
| 18:29.13 | Hanuman | Yah - it does, but their tech support seemed to shy away from supporting the P800 |
| 18:29.43 | Hanuman | I think I'm going to try T-mobile - they're GSM as well |
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| 19:18.24 | hans | i must be getting old. I have no desire to join the distro war |
| 19:19.33 | Hanuman | distro war? where???? |
| 19:20.04 | hans | uug |
| 19:20.16 | Hanuman | I'm still a Red Hat fan |
| 19:20.43 | Hanuman | Debian would be my second choice although I've never tried it before, so I shouldn't be too sure of that |
| 19:20.50 | Hanuman | I hate Mandrake |
| 19:21.02 | hans | i shouldn't be so sure redhat is the best if you haven't tried Debian. ;-) |
| 19:21.07 | Hanuman | Source Mage and Gentoo sound somewhat appealing, but I don't have time for them |
| 19:21.24 | Hanuman | Yeah, but with apt4rpm you don't need Debian ;-) |
| 19:21.34 | hans | i disagree |
| 19:21.38 | hans | debian is more than just apt |
| 19:21.46 | hans | although apt is definitely its most visible strong point |
| 19:22.10 | Hanuman | without apt, Debian and Red Hat are very similar IMHO - Red Hat just has more money |
| 19:22.48 | hans | you haven't used debian, or you'd know they're about as different as redhat and mandrake are |
| 19:23.02 | Hanuman | that's true - I don't have a place to stand on that issue |
| 19:23.20 | Hanuman | but I own stock in Red Hat, so I have to give my word where I can ;-) |
| 19:24.05 | Hanuman | So, stepping down to be humble, how is Debian better than Red Hat? |
| 19:24.17 | hans | in a short sentence, debian is sane, consistent, and makes sense. Red Hat is much closer to ad-hoc and quite inconsistent, in my experience. and that in spite of the fact that debian is done by a bunch of volunteers and red hat does everything itself |
| 19:24.39 | hans | and in a word: policy. |
| 19:25.40 | Hanuman | that's one thing I like about the volunteer system - volunteers tend to stick to policy better |
| 19:26.35 | hans | yup. redhat has a bottom line. debian doesn't. in fact it has an anti-bottom line because debian developers are so sick of people complaining about the release cycle that I think sometimes they slow it down on purpose. :-) after all, they are running the latest and greatest since they use unstable or testing. |
| 19:27.46 | hans | see there, I'm not so old after all. You got me to give my speel in spite of myself. ;-) |
| 19:28.27 | synic|laptop | or FreeBSD.... if the filesystem wasn't so horribly bad. |
| 19:28.41 | Hanuman | hans started it... |
| 19:29.19 | Hanuman | you pointer you |
| 19:29.25 | Hanuman | *hans |
| 19:29.27 | synic|laptop | oh, I see it :) |
| 19:29.36 | synic|laptop | yeah, casey started it. |
| 19:30.32 | Hanuman | Redhat has done alot for Linux though - the business structure they have has gotten alot of deals with people like Oracle, IBM, etc. |
| 19:30.50 | Hanuman | whether they have a good OS or not |
| 19:31.02 | synic|laptop | hey, and they helped Linus make his first couple-a-million dollars. |
| 19:31.19 | Hanuman | made me $200 |
| 19:32.02 | Hanuman | I'm waiting till they hit $10/share to sell, though |
| 19:34.09 | hans | well now, I didn't say redhat was bad, just not as good as debian. Give me redhat over mandrake or windows any day |
| 19:34.17 | synic|laptop | never tried Debian. |
| 19:34.27 | synic|laptop | I was slack, then gentoo |
| 19:34.32 | synic|laptop | and a little freebsd |
| 19:34.39 | synic|laptop | one time I had a redhat CD |
| 19:34.47 | synic|laptop | but I never installed it |
| 19:34.58 | hans | the message from the guy with the filesystem problem on plug is encouraging |
| 19:35.15 | hans | he's quite apparently a newbie and yet somehow managed to install debian on his own. :) |
| 19:35.33 | hans | probably because nobody told him it was supposed to be hard to install. |
| 19:37.05 | tensai | that was me. a friend used Debian so I tried it. only found out later that it was hard |
| 19:37.43 | Hanuman | I went from Mandrake to RedHat (basically), and never moved since |
| 19:37.59 | Hanuman | I tried gentoo and sourcemage, but gave up after awhile |
| 19:38.10 | Hanuman | Sometime I need to try Debian |
| 19:38.18 | synic|laptop | Hanuman: I gave up on gentoo like 5 times before I switched. I was just too used to slack... |
| 19:38.35 | Hanuman | I like RedHat better than Mandrake because I can actually install most things from source and not have to worry where my directories are placed |
| 19:38.48 | Hanuman | synic|laptop: why do you like gentoo? |
| 19:38.49 | synic|laptop | I now realize that slack is horrible... |
| 19:39.26 | synic|laptop | Hanuman: sort of the package manager, but mostly the community. There are 702 people in #gentoo right now, and they have a no-harassing-the-newbies policy. Same thing on their forums. |
| 19:40.17 | synic|laptop | I don't really care about the optimizations... they are barely noticeable, if at all. |
| 19:40.24 | Hanuman | that's cool - I like it when IRC channels are friendly like that |
| 19:41.13 | synic|laptop | another thing that's cool is that their packages are the most up-to-date I have seen in a distro, so you can get bleeding edge if you want (you don't have to) |
| 19:42.38 | Hanuman | doesn't debian allow that as well? |
| 19:42.44 | Hanuman | Red Hat does, but it's not easy |
| 19:42.59 | synic|laptop | I dunno about debian... never tried it. |
| 19:43.18 | synic|laptop | I wouldn't mind putting debian on the laptop if it did, because gentoo is a little intensive for a 500mhz machine |
| 19:44.02 | tensai | Debian unstable tracks upstream pretty closely. It's not really as unstable as it seems |
| 19:44.21 | tensai | I run unstable for my desktops and stable for servers |
| 19:45.34 | tensai | and you can always recompile your own packages which is generally pretty simple |
| 19:45.59 | synic|laptop | yeah, but does recompiling them break the package manager (ie, the package manager does not know if you have the package installed)? |
| 19:46.07 | Hanuman | That's one thing that is very appealing about debian for me. rpm does the same thing, but not very easily |
| 19:47.13 | Hanuman | and it's in kind of a round-about way |
| 19:47.33 | Hanuman | you have to build the re-compiled source into a package to even do it |
| 19:47.39 | tensai | recompiling is built into apt. you build your own deb packages which track just like normal using dpkg |
| 19:47.43 | Hanuman | s/re-compiled/re-compile/ |
| 19:47.57 | synic|laptop | cool |
| 19:48.13 | Hanuman | nm on my s/// |
| 19:49.08 | Hanuman | s!s/re-compiled/re-compile/!# s/re-compiled/re-compile/! |
| 19:49.16 | Hanuman | there's an s/// for you |
| 19:53.01 | Hanuman | Disaster recover plan gains new meaning in the path of a hurricane |
| 19:53.04 | tensai | how far are you from the coast? |
| 19:53.35 | Hanuman | We're about 90 miles or so from the coast |
| 19:54.16 | Hanuman | enough to not see the worst of it, but still get some pretty strong winds from it, possible tornadoes, and flooding |
| 19:54.36 | Hanuman | I'm making sure we've got backups at my home and at work, just in case |
| 19:54.50 | tensai | backups are never a bad idea |
| 19:57.35 | Hanuman | that place is a fortress |
| 19:57.42 | Hanuman | built to withstand anything |
| 19:58.27 | Hanuman | then I could IRC and let you guys know how it was going |
| 19:59.01 | Hanuman | Although with no windows I don't know If I'd be able to tell |
| 19:59.12 | tensai | web cam on the roof? |
| 20:00.32 | Hanuman | That would be cool - know of any water-proof webcams? |
| 20:01.26 | Hanuman | If we could get the security gaurds to let us see the security cams we could get an idea |
| 20:01.26 | tensai | we're thinking too hard. I'm sure somebody from cnn will be standing on the beach with a camera crew the whole time. |
| 20:01.39 | brailsmt_work | any webcam with a glass bowl over it is waterproof... |
| 20:01.40 | Hanuman | hehe - that's definitely true |
| 20:01.40 | brailsmt_work | :) |
| 20:02.02 | tensai | brailsmt_work: not in 140mph wind it isn't :) |
| 20:02.10 | brailsmt_work | though, maybe not in a hurricane... |
| 20:02.25 | brailsmt_work | just fasten it down real good... |
| 20:02.42 | brailsmt_work | you could gloop vaseline all over the webcam... |
| 20:02.45 | brailsmt_work | :) |
| 20:02.58 | brailsmt_work | or clay |
| 20:03.14 | brailsmt_work | they do that with engines to make them waterproof... |
| 20:03.42 | brailsmt_work | then you could time it to see how long it lasts... :) |
| 20:03.49 | Hanuman | If the power just stays on, I could actually broadcast from my home. Maybe I'll point it out my window. |
| 20:04.09 | Hanuman | I don't know if I even want my computers on during it, though |
| 20:07.48 | Hanuman | Wonder how much people would pay to watch a hurricane live |
| 20:07.52 | Hanuman | via webcam |
| 20:08.05 | Hanuman | If people would pay, I could use the money to buy a generator to keep my power going |
| 20:08.06 | synic|laptop | I'll give you a dollar... |
| 20:08.18 | synic|laptop | but you have to pay for me to ship it to you |
| 20:08.36 | Hanuman | :) |
| 20:09.05 | Hanuman | I could advertise through /. |
| 20:09.12 | Hanuman | I bet /. would post it |
| 20:09.20 | synic|laptop | I bet you would get a bit of cash for it, too |
| 20:10.11 | Hanuman | but then I'd need bandwidth, too |
| 20:10.13 | levi | Get some google ads set up beforehand, and you'll rake in the dough. |
| 20:10.21 | Hanuman | and what if my bandwidth provider goes down |
| 20:10.34 | Hanuman | I should charge by the minute |
| 20:12.31 | Hanuman | If I could somehow get a line that goes directly to west virginia, I should be set with no interuptions |
| 20:12.47 | Hanuman | anyone got alot of cable? |
| 20:12.57 | synic|laptop | ::P |
| 20:12.58 | synic|laptop | nope |
| 20:13.05 | Hanuman | and a few hubs to extend the signal? |
| 20:13.17 | Hanuman | water-proof, of course |
| 20:13.31 | Hanuman | each attached to a generator of its own |
| 20:13.44 | Hanuman | I need a few windmills and I'd be set |
| 20:15.12 | synic|laptop | lol |
| 20:16.36 | Hanuman | That actually would be a fun project - create a windmill to power my home during the hurricane. |
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| 20:22.16 | Hanuman | okay - now a more serious question - I've got imap setup on my Linux server at home, but for some reason when I connect in Windows using Outlook, I can't delete anything - it just gets "marked for deletion" Is that just a feature of IMAP, or some setting in my client that I need to change to get it to actually delete the items? |
| 20:23.28 | synic|laptop | that's a feature of IMAP. Go to Edit->Purge Messages to actually delete them |
| 20:23.59 | synic|laptop | some clients don't display the messages marked for deletion... |
| 20:24.02 | synic|laptop | and some do... |
| 20:24.26 | Hanuman | k - know of any way in Outlook to get that to actually work like a regular mail folder and move them to the deleted items folder or just purge them? |
| 20:24.47 | synic|laptop | I never did figure out a way in Outlook. I always just purged them when I was ready |
| 20:24.50 | synic|laptop | same thing in evolution |
| 20:24.59 | synic|laptop | but... mozilla does it like you think it should |
| 20:25.04 | Hanuman | cool |
| 20:25.07 | Hanuman | I love mozilla |
| 20:25.32 | Hanuman | what I'm doing now is just setting the folders to auto-hide items marked for deletion |
| 20:26.12 | Hanuman | I guess in a way it works better than moving to "deleted items" because it keeps the deleted items in the same folder they were originally |
| 20:27.06 | tensai | synic|laptop: yes. under View->Hide Deleted Messages |
| 20:27.13 | Hanuman | synic|laptop: have you figured out a way to improve the refresh-rate for IMAP in Outlook? |
| 20:27.38 | synic|laptop | brb |
| 20:27.55 | Hanuman | That's the only other problem I've seen - folders show themselves haveing new messages when in reality they don't |
| 20:28.00 | Hanuman | s/haveing/having |
| 20:42.10 | synic|laptop | nah, been a while since I used outlook |
| 20:42.35 | synic|laptop | tensai: thanks :) |
| 20:42.53 | Hanuman | I'm only on it right now as a test platform to see if I can do the same for work |
| 20:42.56 | synic|laptop | man I love the xfce-basic gtk engine |
| 20:42.56 | synic|laptop | it's so pretty |
| 20:43.21 | Hanuman | I've heard so many good things about that one |
| 20:43.34 | synic|laptop | it's pretty enough that it needs a non-basic name. |
| 20:43.35 | levi | Is that for gtk or gtk2? |
| 20:43.38 | synic|laptop | gtk2 |
| 20:43.57 | levi | Screenshots? |
| 20:44.07 | synic|laptop | one sec. |
| 20:44.30 | hans | cool just got a russian spam |
| 20:44.40 | hans | and my utf-8 setup is apparently working. :) |
| 20:45.16 | synic|laptop | hrmm... I don't have anywhere to upload it to. |
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| 20:51.45 | Hanuman | levi: http://www.xfce.org/en/screenshots.html |
| 20:52.55 | Hanuman | synic|laptop: reminds me alot of OSX |
| 20:53.15 | levi | Ahh, that is a nice theme. |
| 20:55.49 | Hanuman | if they could just make the little panel on the bottom a little more rounded or maybe transparent (with auto-enlarging icons) I would think it was almost OSX |
| 20:56.01 | Hanuman | I don't like the boxy-look of the panel |
| 20:56.50 | synic|laptop | levi: d'oh, sent it anyway. |
| 20:57.14 | synic|laptop | levi: so you work for those guys in draper that make linux clusters? |
| 20:58.17 | levi | Yup. |
| 20:58.40 | synic|laptop | nifty :) |
| 20:59.21 | levi | Yeah. We have some serious hardware here. :) |
| 20:59.46 | synic|laptop | I bet |
| 21:00.01 | levi | Large clusters of dual-Opterons, etc. |
| 21:00.14 | synic|laptop | what kind of clients do you get? |
| 21:00.15 | Hanuman | levi: you should come to our data center up in Northern VA and see Google's Linux cluster - very cool |
| 21:00.28 | Hanuman | of course you guys may have played a part in that |
| 21:00.40 | levi | Hmm... I don't know if we've sold anything to google yet. |
| 21:00.47 | synic|laptop | oh man, I would love to see google's. I have heard that if they upgrade the kernel it takes them a month to reboot all the machines. |
| 21:00.55 | levi | Most of our systems to go high performance computing people, like national labs and whatnot. |
| 21:00.56 | synic|laptop | but... that may be a rumour. |
| 21:01.04 | Hanuman | All I know is it was a ton of linux machines, rows and rows |
| 21:01.21 | Hanuman | all the covers were removed for ease of maintenance |
| 21:01.32 | levi | I got to help install a cluster at Lawrence Livermore which ended up in the same room as ASCI Blue. |
| 21:01.39 | Hanuman | that way they can easily swap cards, hard-drives, etc without opening up each of the machines |
| 21:03.05 | levi | Are they not rack-mount machines there? |
| 21:04.17 | Hanuman | oh - they're rack-mounted, just don't have front-covers |
| 21:04.33 | Hanuman | it was row-upon row of rack-mounted linux machines |
| 21:05.09 | Hanuman | My boss and the President of our company who were with me had no idea what type of experience I was having when they guy showing us around pointed those out to me |
| 21:05.43 | Hanuman | At that point I could care less where our servers were - I just wanted to go back and drool at the Google servers |
| 21:06.27 | Hanuman | And I imagine this is just one of their data-centers |
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| 21:06.54 | Hanuman | This place actually gets National-gaurd sent in to protect it in the case of national-emergency |
| 21:07.38 | levi | Heh. If you think that's crazy, you should have seen the security at Lawrence Livermore when I was there. Guys standing around at the gates with machine guns, mandatory background checks, etc. |
| 21:08.08 | Hanuman | that's cool - we didn't have gaurds w/ machine guns at the time I was there, but we had the background checks |
| 21:08.32 | Hanuman | levi: how many doors did you have to go through to get into the actual facility? |
| 21:08.52 | levi | I don't remember. There were quite a few. |
| 21:09.15 | Hanuman | These secure facilities are really cool - it would be fun in some ways to work at one |
| 21:10.27 | levi | Yeah, the national labs seem like geek heaven. |
| 21:17.59 | Hanuman | cya guys later... |
| 21:19.19 | synic|laptop | have you all converted to Jabber yet? |
| 21:19.47 | hans | synic|laptop: yup |
| 21:19.49 | levi | I don't chat with too many tech-savvy people via IM, so mostly I use AIM and ICQ. |
| 21:20.04 | synic|laptop | levi: at least it's not MSN. |
| 21:20.51 | synic|laptop | it's too bad... Jabber is _so_ cool compared to the others |
| 21:20.51 | levi | Never used MSN, though not on ideological grounds. |
| 21:21.22 | levi | I don't really need something cool, I just need something that works and that my friends are using. |
| 21:22.15 | synic|laptop | yeah, I suppose - but wouldn't it be nice if you could sign up for the "UUG newsletter" and recieve event notices via IM? |
| 21:24.17 | synic|laptop | hans: what client do you use? |
| 21:24.32 | hans | gaim |
| 21:34.29 | hans | i can't wait to make silly putty |
| 21:34.46 | hans | http://www.chem.umn.edu/outreach/Sillyputty.html |
| 21:36.00 | levi | I made some funky putty-like stuff in a chemistry class once. |
| 21:36.14 | brailsmt_work | you sneezed? |
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