| 00:01.41 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@208.186.182.172) |
| 00:01.41 | *** topic/#utah is No, we don't really like SCO... | Happy 10th birthday Debian! |
| 00:01.42 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 00:19.48 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@208.186.182.172) |
| 00:19.48 | *** topic/#utah is No, we don't really like SCO... | Happy 10th birthday Debian! |
| 00:19.49 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 00:27.06 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@208.186.182.172) |
| 00:27.06 | *** topic/#utah is No, we don't really like SCO... | Happy 10th birthday Debian! |
| 00:27.06 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 01:58.19 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (~emcnabb@byu080738wks.byu.edu) |
| 03:20.25 | *** join/#utah ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 03:20.25 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (~emcnabb@byu080738wks.byu.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:20.25 | *** join/#utah brailsmt1work (michael@byu081030wks.byu.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:20.25 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@dsl233.sisna.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:20.25 | *** join/#utah Hanuman (~jstayii@pool-141-152-11-122.rich.east.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:20.25 | *** join/#utah jayce__ (~jayce@slkc6400gw3poolF207.slkc.uswest.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:20.25 | *** join/#utah Mecworks (marc@208.186.182.174) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:20.25 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (~amb@ip-64-32-156-231.dsl.lax.megapath.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:20.25 | *** join/#utah hans (~fugalh@byu074942wks.rn.byu.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:20.25 | *** join/#utah levi (~levi@208.177.141.226) |
| 03:20.25 | *** join/#utah Bonez39 (~Bonez@206.71.67.22) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:20.25 | *** mode/#utah [+o ChanServ] by niven.freenode.net |
| 03:20.45 | *** join/#utah elg (fugalh@byu080804wks.byu.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:27.54 | neybar | elg are you alive? |
| 03:32.31 | Mecworks | ibot: convert 196.31 barleycorns to lightyears |
| 03:33.33 | Bradipo | Hey Mecworks, how's it going? |
| 03:33.47 | Mecworks | Pretty good how are you? |
| 03:34.02 | Bradipo | Doing well enough. |
| 03:34.19 | Mecworks | good |
| 03:34.24 | Bradipo | Did Novell get affected at all by this weeks M$ virus mess? |
| 03:35.37 | Mecworks | Yea, it seems they were. Not me... 8^) Linux...bla bla bla. It was affected by both the worm and the sobig.f |
| 03:35.41 | Mecworks | how about sco? |
| 03:35.55 | Mecworks | 8^) |
| 03:35.56 | Bradipo | I haven't heard of any infections yet. |
| 03:36.07 | Mecworks | bummer....Oh, I mean, that's good. |
| 03:36.22 | Bradipo | Apparently it is hitting a lot of places pretty hard. |
| 03:36.50 | Bradipo | I have actually patched qmail to reject all executable content. |
| 03:37.05 | Bradipo | So, even if the virus companies don't yet have a ``signature'' it will be blocked. |
| 03:37.23 | Mecworks | Yea, I admin a server in SLC and one of their machines got the sobig.f but as an admin, I got several hundred virus warnings from myu scanning software. (it caught them all.) |
| 03:37.41 | Mecworks | (except that first one, then I updated and it got the rest). |
| 03:38.03 | Bradipo | Did I tell you I went geocaching in WY? |
| 03:38.10 | Mecworks | no. How was it? |
| 03:38.19 | Bradipo | Fun as usual. |
| 03:38.28 | Mecworks | (I knew you were going to do it but I havn't had a report). |
| 03:38.43 | Mecworks | cool. Out in the middle of nowhere... 8^) |
| 03:38.43 | Bradipo | They were kind of easy, but I was taking my wife's nieces and nephews because they had never been before. |
| 03:38.57 | Bradipo | It was out in Curt Gowdy State Park. |
| 03:39.08 | Mecworks | cool. It's pretty fun. I've had a good tiem taking scout groups before. |
| 03:39.09 | Bradipo | Kind of the middle of nowhere, but what isn't in WY? |
| 03:39.16 | Mecworks | 8^) trie |
| 03:39.18 | Mecworks | true |
| 03:39.26 | Bradipo | The drive was close to 10 hours. |
| 03:39.33 | Bradipo | Of nothing but small hills. |
| 03:41.06 | Mecworks | Yea, I've made that drive before. It's long. I used to do tours in SD (mt rushmore, etc) the head back thorugh WY on my way home. |
| 03:41.38 | Bradipo | How far from Cheyenne is Mt Rushmore? |
| 03:41.50 | Mecworks | about 4 or 5 hours NE |
| 03:42.03 | Bradipo | Hmm, I guess it wouldn't have been an option for us then. |
| 03:42.12 | Mecworks | You go up thorugh Mammoth SD on the way. pretty cool place. |
| 03:42.13 | Bradipo | I learned something though. |
| 03:42.23 | Mecworks | what? |
| 03:42.29 | Bradipo | The highest point along I-80 is Lincoln Memorial Park |
| 03:42.40 | Bradipo | Or whatever it was called. |
| 03:42.44 | Mecworks | 8^) I guess that is something 8^) |
| 03:42.45 | Bradipo | There is a geocache nearby it. |
| 03:42.57 | Bradipo | And that Lincoln Highway Park |
| 03:43.06 | Mecworks | cool - di you go by newspaper rock? Oh I mean independance rock? |
| 03:43.08 | Bradipo | Lincoln Highway Memorial Park. |
| 03:43.28 | Bradipo | It was also supposed to be a highway that connected the west coast to the east coast. |
| 03:43.33 | Bradipo | I don't think so. |
| 03:43.35 | Bradipo | Where is that? |
| 03:44.15 | Mecworks | It's a big rock where the saints arrived on independance day. It has been signed my many travelers of that era and has many historical sigs on it. |
| 03:44.36 | Mecworks | Its a large rock in the middle of a valley. |
| 03:44.43 | Bradipo | In WY? |
| 03:45.08 | Bradipo | I think we need a new backup server. :-) |
| 03:45.15 | Bradipo | It's getting slow these days. |
| 03:45.27 | Mecworks | http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=%22independence+rock%22+wyoming&spell=1 |
| 03:46.12 | Bradipo | We should have headed up to it. |
| 03:47.45 | Bradipo | Some of those signatures are pretty big. |
| 03:49.43 | Mecworks | Yea. Itss pretty cool. |
| 03:50.05 | Bradipo | Ssspeaking of itsss, I can't wait for it to come out. |
| 03:50.16 | Bradipo | LotR that is. :-) |
| 03:50.40 | Bradipo | Rather we can't wait for its to come out. |
| 03:53.24 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 03:59.47 | Bradipo | It's amazing how many poorly configured or poorly written email servers there are out there. |
| 04:00.13 | Bradipo | kmart.com's mail servers will bounce a message when receiving a 4xx level deferral status. |
| 04:00.32 | Bradipo | Messages are only supposed to bounce upon 5xx codes. |
| 04:00.56 | Bradipo | Simply amazing that such outfits can even participate on the Internet. |
| 04:07.16 | Bradipo | So, how is Debian pronounced anyway? |
| 04:07.34 | Bradipo | I have always said: Deh bee un. |
| 04:07.47 | Bradipo | But I have heard some people say: Dee bee un. |
| 04:09.07 | Jayce^ | I say deh |
| 04:09.16 | Jayce^ | most people I know say it that way |
| 04:10.38 | Bradipo | That's what I thought. |
| 04:11.04 | Bradipo | I always said it that way because of how the name was brought together (Debby Ian) |
| 04:11.12 | Bradipo | I have never heard Debbie pronounced Deebee. :-) |
| 04:35.10 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (~emcnabb@12-255-28-7.client.attbi.com) |
| 04:44.14 | neybar | anyone know of a free virus scanner for linux? for use on my MTA, not to clean up my linux box :-) |
| 04:44.46 | Jayce^ | mailscanner, or amavis maybe? |
| 04:44.54 | Jayce^ | not sure if free or not.. |
| 04:45.30 | emcnabb_ | http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/21/1061434974481.html |
| 04:45.48 | neybar | both of those still require a virus scanner |
| 04:46.04 | Jayce^ | I thought that's what they were |
| 04:46.28 | neybar | they are scanners, but you still need a virus scanning engine. |
| 04:58.06 | Bradipo | Is uvscan for linux free for non-commercial use? |
| 04:58.25 | Bradipo | uvscan is the McAfee scanner. |
| 04:58.28 | Bradipo | It may not be. |
| 05:12.10 | elg | neybar: I am now |
| 05:45.55 | *** join/#utah Bonez39 (~Bonez@206.71.67.22) |
| 06:12.21 | Mecworks | A little paranoid are we Mr.McBride? http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/08/21/HNscoibm_1.html |
| 08:56.16 | Bonez39 | mec? are you here? |
| 13:41.47 | Hanuman | neybar: you in here? |
| 13:43.55 | Hanuman | please won't you be, please won't you be, won't you be my neybar! o/~ |
| 13:44.21 | Hanuman | when you get in here I've got some answers to your virus-scan woes - I've been very pleased with mine. |
| 13:58.48 | hans | Mecworks: not paranoid, I don't think. I think it's just an attempt to look like the underdog |
| 13:59.40 | hans | america loves underdogs. 'help! IBM and its thugs are after us! we're a poor honest little technology company just trying to make a living and protect our IP and IBM and its thugs are trying to take us out!' |
| 14:00.05 | hans | I've known kids like that. Sometimes they get sympathy but even the dense adults see through them after one or two shenanigans |
| 14:00.18 | hans | (that is, except for their parents) |
| 14:13.48 | Hanuman | hans: do you know where I can find docs on ibot? I'd like to learn more about it |
| 14:14.08 | Hanuman | Also, we ought to add to it a ~lart on any time McBride is mentioned ;-) |
| 14:26.22 | elg | Hanuman: /msg ibot help |
| 14:26.39 | elg | i didn't write an ibot script - it's an irssi script |
| 14:26.49 | elg | so I'm not much help there |
| 14:34.51 | Hanuman | cool - that's what I use. I was just curious what could be done with it. |
| 14:35.00 | Hanuman | How did we get it to ~lart SCO? |
| 14:40.32 | Hanuman | is <layer> w3-certified any more? If not, what's the equivalent in xhtml? |
| 14:40.49 | Hanuman | z-index? |
| 14:46.09 | elg | my script watches for the word SCO and then does a "/msg ibot lart #utah SCO" |
| 14:51.42 | neybar | I'm awake... sorta now Hanuman |
| 14:51.59 | neybar | and that was a really terrible play on my nickname :-P |
| 14:59.40 | Hanuman | I just had to sing it... |
| 15:00.42 | Hanuman | neybar: I use MailScanner to work with Sendmail, SpamAssassin, and f-prot. I was having lots of problems trying to configure amavis and found MailScanner very easy to setup. |
| 15:01.01 | Hanuman | f-prot is free for non-commercial use in scanning for viruses |
| 15:02.27 | Hanuman | I tried antivir which is also free for non-commercial use, but had all sorts of problems with it. f-prot gave me no problems |
| 15:08.34 | neybar | can you use MailScanner in a procmail filter? |
| 15:09.36 | Hanuman | I think so, but I'm not completely sure - you'd have to check the docs |
| 15:21.47 | Hanuman | I imagine you can use procmail in addition. Mailscanner works on top of sendmail |
| 15:44.42 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (~emcnabb@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 15:51.13 | neybar | MailScanner has terrible doc. |
| 16:00.32 | elg | some virus spammer out there is targeting geeks with a microsoft virus. hath no business sense. I got 4 or 5 forged from debian.org addresses and one with slashdot in the user part of the from address |
| 16:06.02 | Hanuman | neybar: I thought it was better than amavis' docs |
| 16:06.21 | elg | ~slashdot |
| 16:06.55 | Hanuman | elg: I'm on a couple lists that have both linux and windows users and I am getting spammed to death from those lists |
| 16:07.05 | elg | it's only a matter of time before AOL screws its users over too (not like they haven't tried before) |
| 16:07.13 | Hanuman | one of the is through sf.net - I thought they would have better filtering |
| 16:07.41 | Hanuman | s/the/them |
| 16:07.59 | Hanuman | s#s/the/them#s/the/them/# |
| 16:08.10 | Hanuman | that was confusing |
| 16:19.28 | emcnabb_ | http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=75706&cid=6765474 |
| 16:19.34 | Jayce^ | so who all uses jabber in here? |
| 16:19.35 | emcnabb_ | this is interesting... |
| 16:19.38 | emcnabb_ | me |
| 16:19.45 | Jayce^ | I have elg on jabber, and emcnabb |
| 16:21.16 | Bradipo | Does groupwise really suck as much as I think it does? |
| 16:21.49 | Jayce^ | it did when I used it a long time ago.. but I also hate evolution/outlook too.. |
| 16:21.49 | Bradipo | I mean, does it really bounce messages that are intended to be deferred with a 4xx code in SMTP? |
| 16:21.53 | *** join/#utah Elimist (Elimist@ACC0C19E.ipt.aol.com) |
| 16:22.15 | Bradipo | The only time a mail server should bounce a message is if it receives a 5xx code. |
| 16:22.22 | Bradipo | 4xx codes are meant to defer email. |
| 16:22.22 | emcnabb_ | mutt4ever |
| 16:22.30 | Bradipo | Groupwise sucks. |
| 16:22.50 | Hanuman | I've never been that impressed either |
| 16:22.52 | Jayce^ | ~lart Hanuman for getting a IBM linux poster.. |
| 16:23.25 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, implementing graylisting? |
| 16:23.27 | Hanuman | Outlook is much better than Outlook Express |
| 16:23.39 | Hanuman | ;-) |
| 16:24.03 | Elimist | Neither are great |
| 16:24.18 | Hanuman | Hey it's a cool poster - it says "LINUX for S/390... ...it's cool." |
| 16:24.20 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 16:24.43 | Jayce^ | figured, since you were talking about the smtp bounces.. |
| 16:24.44 | Hanuman | it has a picture of a bunch of penguins and the S/390 on it in the snow |
| 16:25.17 | Hanuman | Elimist: I'm really beginning to like Mozilla Mail, I only wish it had calendar and tasks that I could sync with my palm |
| 16:26.08 | Hanuman | You know, if Franklin really wanted an opportunity, they could have a great mail client with their planner philosophy |
| 16:26.21 | Elimist | Why don't you just use the plam desktop software to snyc that stuff? Another program you have to go through, I know... |
| 16:26.21 | Hanuman | I'd only hope it worked in Linux as well as Windows |
| 16:26.48 | Hanuman | Elimist: then I have to go to multiple places to get my e-mail, check my calendar, tasks, etc |
| 16:27.04 | Hanuman | I like the ability of one location for everything |
| 16:27.19 | elg | i don't |
| 16:27.25 | elg | I can't get anything done with my email open |
| 16:27.29 | Hanuman | Not to mention the groupware functionality - that can be useful at times for a large company |
| 16:27.43 | elg | but to get stuff done I need my task list/calendar (usually mental unless I get real busy) |
| 16:27.43 | Elimist | I think that I should give a bit of an introduction to who I am - I just got into Linux recently, live in Ogden, discovered the SLLUG, and noticed that the SLLUG website mentioned this channel, so I thought I'd pop in |
| 16:27.55 | elg | welcome |
| 16:28.06 | Hanuman | greetings |
| 16:28.27 | Hanuman | yvan eht nioj! |
| 16:28.32 | Jayce^ | welcome |
| 16:28.45 | elg | and at times like this I have to hide IRC if I wanna get anything done too. :) (note the if) |
| 16:28.53 | Hanuman | elg: me too |
| 16:30.02 | Elimist | in case anyone wanted to know - I'm going to be installing slackware 9.0 on my desktop (this computer) soon, and I'm working on installing an older version of slack on my very, very, old almost worthless toshiba laptop |
| 16:30.22 | Hanuman | actually, I really like the speed and ease-of-use of mutt and pine - sometimes I just like an all-in-one solution, though |
| 16:30.41 | Hanuman | can anyone fathom the thought...pine with groupware functionality |
| 16:30.57 | Hanuman | ;-) |
| 16:31.22 | Hanuman | actually, for how I use it, that would be cool |
| 16:32.09 | Elimist | interesting thoughts, Hanuman... |
| 16:32.50 | Hanuman | I don't think it would ever happen with mutt or pine, though |
| 16:32.57 | Hanuman | those are pretty much anti-groupware |
| 16:34.14 | Bradipo | I'm really finding out which mail servers are super broken. |
| 16:34.19 | Bradipo | Of course this one could simply be misconfigured. |
| 16:34.27 | Bradipo | I can't imagine all groupwise servers are this stupid. |
| 16:35.16 | Elimist | Hanuman: I'm sure you know the alternative; find the open source program that does closest to what you want and 'fix' it =P |
| 16:35.18 | Hanuman | I have to deal with Exchange every day - that is a huge pain, and very expensive, too |
| 16:35.52 | Hanuman | Elimist: oh yeah - I'd probably have to fork, though - I don't think the pine or mutt crowd would find that feature very appealing |
| 16:37.09 | Hanuman | Bradipo: I'd almost prefer groupwise over Exchange. I'm going to experiment with opengroupware at home, though - we'll see how that fares and maybe I can try it out in a test environment at work |
| 16:37.17 | Elimist | The general crowd doesn't have to find it appealing, though...just release it in the right way according to the license. |
| 16:38.01 | Hanuman | I'll have to look at that (maybe one of my many tasks when I finish school and have time in the evenings again) |
| 16:38.37 | Hanuman | I wonder if it would be better to write some sort of plugin, or add-on, or if the project-maintainers would accept code to completely just add a feature to the program |
| 16:40.01 | Elimist | I've never used pine or mutt (remember I'm really new to Linux and the open source idea in a whole)... |
| 16:43.18 | Elimist | And it seems like I just brought the conversation to an end with my stupid and noob comments |
| 16:44.41 | Jayce^ | lol... no. |
| 16:44.48 | Jayce^ | you'll notice it does that often.. |
| 16:44.51 | Jayce^ | we do have to work some.. |
| 16:46.51 | Hanuman | Jayce^: what did you say? I was working... |
| 16:46.57 | Hanuman | ;-) |
| 16:47.34 | Hanuman | Elimist: pine and mutt are very nice for very quick and easy access to e-mail. I used nothing but it at my last place of employment. |
| 16:47.53 | Elimist | I know what they are, just not familiar with them, really. |
| 16:48.26 | Jayce^ | just hang around for a while, and you will :) |
| 16:48.46 | Elimist | I'm guessing I'm younger than all of you... |
| 16:48.54 | Hanuman | How old? |
| 16:48.59 | Hanuman | (may I ask?) |
| 16:49.12 | Hanuman | I just got a year older |
| 16:49.20 | Elimist | Ha...don't laugh, mind you. |
| 16:49.22 | Elimist | 14 |
| 16:49.46 | Hanuman | Hey - that's cool. I wish I had Linux when I was 14 |
| 16:49.59 | Hanuman | I was stuck with Windows and Pascal |
| 16:50.14 | Elimist | I've been using windows all my life - well, DOS when I was really young |
| 16:50.48 | Elimist | Just now recently got introduced to the opensource idea - most importantly, Linux |
| 16:51.05 | Hanuman | Who brought it to your attention? Was it school, or a friend? |
| 16:51.22 | Elimist | A channel on another IRC server |
| 16:51.46 | Elimist | And theres no way in hell it was school - they're all unbelievably biased towards windows |
| 16:51.53 | Hanuman | That's really cool. I wish the high schools promoted open-source more |
| 16:52.08 | Elimist | You'd be hard pressed to find a public school that had any machines running windows. |
| 16:52.13 | Elimist | I mean running Linux |
| 16:52.23 | Hanuman | It's much easier for a poor student (no offense - I'm one too) to learn on a Linux machine |
| 16:53.14 | Hanuman | In a sense, the schools are teaching piracy, because they're teaching students on machines they can't afford |
| 16:53.19 | Elimist | It would save a lot of tax money if they didn't have to renew expensive licenses on software year after year |
| 16:53.26 | Hanuman | that too |
| 16:54.07 | Hanuman | Forcing Windows on the students promotes unequality and favors the rich |
| 16:54.22 | Hanuman | (and I'm a conservative - I can't believe I said that!) |
| 16:54.31 | Elimist | I don't know - at my own local high school is completely biased towards microsoft in its computer classes |
| 16:54.49 | Elimist | They offer NO computer classes using things that are platform independent - except for HTML |
| 16:54.58 | Elimist | The programming class is in VB |
| 16:55.02 | Hanuman | It's probably because your teachers don't know anything but Windows |
| 16:55.27 | Hanuman | You should start a Linux club in your high school |
| 16:55.39 | Elimist | That strengthens your point - Who at our high school has the money to go spend HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS on VB? |
| 16:55.50 | Hanuman | exactly |
| 16:56.33 | Hanuman | I was a ham radio operator at your age, one of the few young ones. Me and the other 2 ham radio operators in my high school started a ham radio club and got other students interested because of it. |
| 16:57.22 | Hanuman | What high school do you go to? |
| 16:57.49 | Elimist | Bonneville High...in Ogden |
| 16:58.28 | Hanuman | okay. A bit north of what I'm familiar with. My wife went to West Jordan High |
| 16:58.36 | Hanuman | I grew up in Texas |
| 16:58.47 | Elimist | ah - okay |
| 16:59.34 | Elimist | Hey, Hanuman, are you in SLLUG? |
| 16:59.46 | Hanuman | No - just PLUG |
| 16:59.54 | Hanuman | I actually live in Richmond, VA right now |
| 16:59.58 | Elimist | Oh |
| 16:59.59 | Hanuman | I moved here from Provo |
| 17:00.12 | Hanuman | I like PLUG more than our local group, though |
| 17:00.22 | Elimist | Hey, is anyone here in SLLUG? |
| 17:00.32 | Elimist | I was going to ask if there was anyone around my age in it |
| 17:01.01 | Hanuman | I think there's a couple - I don't know about your age though |
| 17:01.14 | Hanuman | You should bring some friends into the club |
| 17:01.36 | Elimist | I only know one kid that might be interested |
| 17:02.31 | Hanuman | that's cool - bring him to their next meeting (sorry - I'm not familiar as to when their meetings are, though) |
| 17:02.53 | Elimist | 3rd wednesday of every month |
| 17:03.58 | Elimist | I've got to head out for now |
| 17:04.06 | Elimist | I'll be back on later today, actually, tho... |
| 17:05.22 | Hanuman | Well, time for lunch - cya in a few |
| 17:05.31 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@128.187.136.158) |
| 17:05.48 | sjansen | Could someone let IBM know I haven't gotten my check yet? |
| 17:08.14 | elg | yeah, Jayce^, who is our contact? |
| 17:08.58 | Jayce^ | wish we had one.. |
| 17:09.17 | Jayce^ | I've tried to get in contact with them before for schwag, etc.. but no luck |
| 17:13.17 | Hanuman | tell them you are considering using IBM for your Linux servers. They will send out a salesman with some Schwag to your company |
| 17:13.28 | Hanuman | That's how I got my poster |
| 17:19.15 | Hanuman | I wonder if McBride reads /. |
| 17:19.34 | emcnabb_ | it would make him too depressed |
| 17:20.16 | Hanuman | At least he'd get a reality check - does he believe in humility? |
| 17:23.06 | Hanuman | http://www.jekporkins.net/ |
| 17:23.15 | Hanuman | for all you star wars fans out there... |
| 17:58.31 | Bradipo | Hanuman: I wouldn't ever use Groupwise knowing what I know now. |
| 17:58.53 | Bradipo | It flagrantly violates the standards by not attempting to deliver messages if they are deferred. |
| 17:59.05 | Bradipo | How can Groupwise users not notice this? |
| 17:59.17 | Bradipo | Imagine how many times messages are deferred for various reasons... |
| 17:59.54 | Bradipo | At this point, I am inclined to think that Groupwise admins are more clueless than Exchange admins. |
| 18:00.07 | Bradipo | For choosing to go with Groupwise in the first place. |
| 18:00.15 | Bradipo | And I think that I would rather use Exchange over Groupwise. |
| 18:00.23 | Bradipo | And I hate Microsoft products. |
| 18:02.12 | Bradipo | Of course, it's entirely possible that the admin of said Groupwise server just doesn't know anything... |
| 18:02.24 | Bradipo | But I have now encountered two such misconfigured systems, from two separate organizations. |
| 18:02.32 | Bradipo | So, is that coincidence or just a stupid product? |
| 18:06.31 | Hanuman | interesting |
| 18:06.59 | Hanuman | I know a lot of the teachers and programmers I've met over there haven't been able to answer all of my questions when I've had them. |
| 18:07.19 | Hanuman | Not to slam all people over there. I just have met a couple of clueless ones |
| 18:07.33 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, should ask plug if anyone knows.. got several developers on the list. |
| 18:09.17 | Bradipo | Groupwise developers? |
| 18:09.44 | Bradipo | Hey, I don't know if any of you have seen this, but: http://www.f-secure.com/news/items/news_2003082200.shtml |
| 18:10.02 | Bradipo | Sobig could really have some fun in 50 minutes... |
| 18:16.08 | Hanuman | cool - anyone ready for widespread power-outages, nuclear stations losing security, trains being derailed? - these worms could get dangerous |
| 18:16.20 | Hanuman | it's a bit scary |
| 18:18.05 | Hanuman | see - there went evan's power |
| 18:18.19 | Jayce^ | heh |
| 18:19.23 | Jayce^ | so funny, the guy has load balanced the download of the next phase over 20 machines.. |
| 18:19.49 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (~emcnabb@12-255-28-7.client.attbi.com) |
| 18:19.49 | Jayce^ | but I hope he has just one location to grab the third step, since it's so timed.. might /. himself :D |
| 18:20.57 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@12-255-28-7.client.attbi.com) |
| 18:33.07 | emcnabb | http://welovethescoinformationminister.org/ |
| 18:34.49 | levi | Heh. |
| 18:46.06 | *** join/#utah brailsmt_work (michael@byu081087wks.byu.edu) |
| 18:46.41 | brailsmt_work | SCO further seperates itself from reality... http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/08/21/HNscoibm_1.html |
| 18:47.10 | brailsmt_work | my favorite passage in the article... |
| 18:47.14 | brailsmt_work | However, SCO's public relations (PR) department has had a busy few months. McBride proudly dumped two phone-book-sized binders of press clippings on the stage during his SCO Forum keynote on Monday as proof that his company had become more relevant in the high technology industry. SCO has issued 46 press releases since filing suit against IBM on March 7. Last year it issued only 29 press releases between March and August. |
| 18:47.28 | Jayce^ | ..Beware the IDEs of Microsoft... |
| 18:47.38 | brailsmt_work | someone needs to inform Mr. McBride that press clippings do not make you more relevant |
| 18:47.53 | Jayce^ | especially when all but the provo ones rail on you.. |
| 18:48.14 | brailsmt_work | Xerox PARC, and DARPA probably have fewer press clippings than that in the last 30 years, but they are very relevant |
| 18:48.27 | brailsmt_work | far more than SCO |
| 18:49.06 | brailsmt_work | sounds like SCO is trying to portray itself as the victim... |
| 18:49.12 | brailsmt_work | I just don't feel sorry... |
| 18:49.17 | Jayce^ | sometimes I wonder how Bradipo manages to stay on the channel nowadays :) |
| 18:50.12 | Jayce^ | victimization is always popular in modern american culture... :( |
| 18:50.14 | Hanuman | Maybe the sobig virus is just a big conspiracy by SCO to get a list of all people running linux (somehow) |
| 18:50.23 | Hanuman | or maybe it could be the RIAA |
| 18:50.25 | brailsmt_work | my favorite quote in this whole SCO induced circus was in the Wall Street Journal <paraphrase>"Sometimes in David and Goliath battles you want to root for Goliath"</paraphrase> |
| 18:50.26 | Hanuman | or IBM |
| 18:50.43 | Hanuman | It's all a conspiracy! |
| 18:51.02 | Jayce^ | brailsmt_work, yeah, got that article clipped out.. |
| 19:12.34 | Bradipo | How many of you would recommend RAID5 for a database server? |
| 19:17.49 | sjansen | Nah, go with RAID0. Live dangerously. |
| 19:19.01 | sjansen | BYU has a very nice machine with terabytes of hardware based RAID5. She's a beaut. But I'm not sure what to say if you're not interested in shelling out lots of money to IBM. |
| 19:20.30 | sjansen | To me, data integrity is everything. If the data is important, RAID5 is a resonable part of the solution. You might take some performance hit, but configure the system to distribute the load well and you can get the same performance as a single disk but with better reliablity. |
| 19:21.02 | Bradipo | How can you take a performance hit with RAID5? |
| 19:21.11 | Bradipo | Doesn't it stripe the data across multiple disk spindles? |
| 19:21.27 | Bradipo | I agree with you about the integrity of the data, that should be paramount. |
| 19:22.16 | sjansen | You have to do the parity checks. But with hardware, my understanding is that it isn't bad. Like you said, the fact that it's stripped might actually speed things up, if done right. |
| 19:22.37 | Bradipo | Hmm. |
| 19:22.43 | Bradipo | Thanks for the opinion. |
| 19:23.01 | sjansen | The important thing is to play and learn before going production. We were rushed out the door, and the first server is stuck forever slower than it could have been because it wasn't configured right. |
| 19:23.15 | Bradipo | Well, we always use RAID5 in production. |
| 19:23.25 | Bradipo | But someone here is telling me that RAID5 isn't good for databases. |
| 19:23.41 | Bradipo | I personally wouldn't want to run the risk of losing everything if a single drive fails. |
| 19:23.49 | Bradipo | http://www.acnc.com/04_01_05.html |
| 19:24.00 | Bradipo | This site seems to indicate that RAID5 is good for database servers. |
| 19:24.43 | sjansen | Ignore them. Raid should be transparent to the software. |
| 19:25.44 | sjansen | They could argue 5200RPM drives aren't as good as 7200RPM, and they might be right looking through a tiny window. But then you start considering reliability, bus, cache size etc. |
| 19:26.28 | sjansen | I'd rather a 5200 with a proven track record from a reliable vendor over a 7200 from a fly by night company. |
| 19:28.04 | sjansen | Now if they're arguing for a differnt RAID level... well that's a different story. But alot of people seem to think that 5 has the best cost/benefit ratio. |
| 19:32.45 | sjansen | I still remember watching the IBM rep prove the hardware. After checking the system was healthy, and reminding us not the do this normally, he disconnected a random drive. Lights started flashing as the system rebuilt on a hot spare. There was a slight slow down until the new drive came online, but no data was lost and we could replace the dead drive when convenient instead of scrambling during a crisis. |
| 19:39.00 | *** join/#utah Elimist (Elimist@ACC3B936.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:00.48 | *** join/#utah tewk (tewk@192.41.88.101) |
| 20:18.11 | *** join/#utah tewk (tewk@192.41.88.101) |
| 20:20.30 | Hanuman | Looks like BYU beat the U in top schools |
| 20:21.22 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, depends on your RAID card and setup. |
| 20:21.39 | Jayce^ | if it's a good one, with its own memory, it's better.. if it's software, it can penalize in write speed |
| 20:24.23 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@128.187.136.158) |
| 20:27.05 | Jayce^ | gaahhhhhh!!!! |
| 20:27.24 | Jayce^ | they are doing a day-log marathon, in theaters, of the whole lotr trilogy... in extended form.. |
| 20:30.55 | sjansen | When? Where? How much do I have to pay?! |
| 20:31.39 | Jayce^ | http://www.theonering.net/staticnews/1061560805.html |
| 20:31.54 | Jayce^ | they'd better get a theater in utah to do this... I am sooo there |
| 20:36.01 | sjansen | Wonder if I can convince my professors to let me take finals early.... |
| 20:36.39 | Hanuman | convincing my wife to take the children for that long will be the problem for me |
| 20:36.52 | Hanuman | I was just dreaming of that as well. |
| 20:37.05 | Hanuman | 11 hours of pure LOTR |
| 20:37.09 | Hanuman | that would be cool |
| 20:37.39 | Hanuman | I take it Return of the King won't be extended |
| 20:38.06 | Jayce^ | no, not then |
| 20:38.12 | Hanuman | That's a long time to not use the restroom - when would you get up to use it? |
| 20:38.26 | Jayce^ | I'm sure they have intermissions, they'll want people buying more food |
| 20:38.47 | Hanuman | I sure hope so - getting up to miss some of it - I wouldn't imagine |
| 20:39.30 | Hanuman | Well, the internet hasn't come to a standstill - the time has passed for the sobig worm thing to happen |
| 20:39.55 | Jayce^ | nah, all but one of the 20 servers was taken down, so it got SLAMMED.. still is |
| 20:41.13 | Hanuman | I'm not seeing any difference |
| 20:50.06 | *** join/#utah tewk (tewk@192.41.88.101) |
| 20:50.25 | Hanuman | well, gonna head home cya guys on Mon |
| 21:12.29 | neybar | that article about ernie ball was cool |
| 21:13.37 | neybar | also the two weeks before Return of the King comes out will not be very productive for me :-) |
| 21:43.53 | Jayce^ | just a bit |
| 21:57.54 | Jayce^ | from an article about sco... "I feel a harsh, bitter Norwegian cold equivalent to hell toward SCO." |
| 22:05.01 | Jayce^ | http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/08/22/1746248&mode=thread&tid=19 |
| 22:05.03 | Jayce^ | quite funny |
| 22:06.48 | Jayce^ | "Yes, one of the parties I talk with is, in fact, IBM. And you know what? They're smarter than you." |
| 22:08.06 | Jayce^ | "I'd ask if you'd found the right sort of isolated wasteland for your citadel of dread yet, but that would be a silly question; you're in Utah, after all." |
| 22:10.01 | *** join/#utah Bonez39 (~Bonez@206.71.67.22) |
| 22:24.14 | *** join/#utah _Bradipo (~amb@ip-64-32-156-231.dsl.lax.megapath.net) |
| 22:24.37 | Bonez39 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:24.49 | Bonez39 | anyone else on now? |
| 22:24.53 | Jayce^ | ayup |
| 22:24.59 | Jayce^ | whazzup bonez? |
| 22:25.11 | Bonez39 | I am hoping to find someone else who runs AvantGo.....I can't get my installation of it to work now.. |
| 22:25.37 | Bonez39 | I went to the site, added a few new titles..and took others away..since then, I get password errors when synching it with Jpilot.. |
| 22:25.48 | Jayce^ | I haven't run it for almost 2 years now.. did work great with the pilot plugin for me though, when I did |
| 22:25.49 | Bonez39 | can't get the right password..despite fact that password is same as before.. |
| 22:25.57 | Jayce^ | hrmm.. |
| 22:28.38 | Bonez39 | any ideas? |
| 22:33.32 | Bonez39 | Bradipo....do you run AvantGo...on a palm device? |
| 22:33.57 | Bradipo | Nope. |
| 22:34.02 | Bradipo | Never even heard of AvantGo. |
| 22:47.11 | Bonez39 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:54.54 | Jayce^ | not really Bonez39, don't see what could have changed.. |
| 22:57.51 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, good to see your message on plug :) |
| 22:58.21 | Bradipo | I'm sorry for the rant. |
| 22:58.25 | Bradipo | But that is just so absurd! |
| 22:58.39 | Jayce^ | I agree... |
| 22:58.41 | Bradipo | I hated Groupwise before, now my hatred is even more deep. |
| 22:58.50 | Jayce^ | it was built into SMTP for a very good reason.. |
| 22:58.57 | Jayce^ | I've needed it some the last few days actually.. |
| 22:59.03 | Jayce^ | and I like the graylisting concept |
| 22:59.06 | Bradipo | Really? |
| 22:59.26 | Bradipo | Well, hopefully nobody using a Groupwise tries to contact you because their messages will bounce and you will never see them. |
| 22:59.38 | Jayce^ | yeah, had postfix stop working during an upgrade.. had an hour or two downtime.. |
| 22:59.47 | Bradipo | I hope there are some Groupwise developers on PLUG. |
| 22:59.51 | Bradipo | I doubt it though. |
| 23:00.05 | Jayce^ | then had my ip change, and of course the fun of letting the dns servers propogate.. |
| 23:00.12 | Bradipo | Oh yep. |
| 23:00.19 | Bradipo | That will do it for you. |
| 23:00.26 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, I know there are some guys from that area, and at least some sales and support guys we can follow up with on the list.. |
| 23:00.26 | Bradipo | Don't expect any email to come in from Groupwise. |
| 23:00.42 | Jayce^ | also, you ever read http://schlockmercenary.com/ ? |
| 23:00.53 | Jayce^ | a great webcomic, very intellectual actually |
| 23:00.54 | Bradipo | Let me check. |
| 23:01.15 | Jayce^ | but the comic designer is actually one of the big guys in charge of groupwise.. |
| 23:01.30 | Bradipo | Hehe, haven't seen this one before. |
| 23:01.38 | Jayce^ | so we could always ask him :) I've actually talked to him a couple times.. really great guy |
| 23:02.19 | Bradipo | It's no wonder they got the protocol screwed up---hiring a comic designer to speak SMTP... ;-) |
| 23:02.40 | Jayce^ | this is the guy who had links to how to build a Rail gun at home (links to buy the stuff even).. |
| 23:02.43 | Bradipo | Maybe I should send my gripe into this comic site. |
| 23:02.49 | Jayce^ | hehe.. |
| 23:03.13 | Bradipo | I bet that the site means gripes with the website though, not with Groupwise. :-) |
| 23:04.40 | Bradipo | I just can't believe how lame that is. |
| 23:04.50 | Bradipo | What if your mail server uses a backend LDAP database for users? |
| 23:05.06 | Bradipo | And the LDAP is down at the time the email is attempted, but comes back after 10 minutes or so. |
| 23:05.59 | Bradipo | I can't imagine that Groupwise administrators haven't just had a slew of email problems... |
| 23:06.21 | Bradipo | Maybe they are just all so clueless that they lump them all together as one problem and figure it's broken on the other end. |
| 23:06.58 | Bradipo | No sense in retrying. |
| 23:07.12 | Bradipo | What's worse... |