| 00:02.37 | *** join/#utah levi (~levi@208.177.141.226) |
| 00:15.28 | Bradipo | lol |
| 00:15.39 | Bradipo | I think I would know too... |
| 00:15.49 | Bradipo | <-- Bradipo has quit (Ping timeout: 302 seconds) |
| 00:16.03 | Bradipo | I saw that in my xchat window, but as far as I can tell I have been connected... |
| 00:52.09 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@65.218.37.161) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:52.09 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@dsl233.sisna.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:52.09 | *** join/#utah brailsmt (~michael@12-254-250-249.client.attbi.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:52.09 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by tolkien.freenode.net |
| 01:31.01 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@12-210-185-198.client.attbi.com) |
| 03:54.36 | *** join/#utah Moeser (moeser@hades.moenix.com) |
| 03:54.52 | *** join/#utah brailsmt_ (~michael@12-254-250-249.client.attbi.com) |
| 04:08.08 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (~linuxalie@12-254-238-235.client.attbi.com) |
| 04:21.02 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@12-210-185-198.client.attbi.com) |
| 04:37.14 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (~linuxalie@12-254-238-235.client.attbi.com) |
| 07:51.02 | *** join/#utah Bonez39 (~Bonez@206.71.67.22) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:51.02 | *** join/#utah jayce_ (~jayce@slkc6400gw3poolB84.slkc.uswest.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:51.02 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (~emcnabb@12-255-28-7.client.attbi.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:51.02 | *** join/#utah Moeser (moeser@hades.moenix.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:51.09 | *** join/#utah ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 07:51.09 | *** join/#utah brailsmt_ (~michael@12-254-250-249.client.attbi.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:51.09 | *** join/#utah levi (~levi@208.177.141.226) |
| 07:51.09 | *** join/#utah jtate (~jtate@rdu74-181-041.nc.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:51.09 | *** join/#utah hans (~fugalh@byu074948wks.rn.byu.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:51.09 | *** join/#utah albino (~albino@neuf.dorms.usu.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:51.09 | *** mode/#utah [+o ChanServ] by tolkien.freenode.net |
| 07:51.13 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@65.218.37.161) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:51.13 | *** join/#utah brailsmt (~michael@12-254-250-249.client.attbi.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:51.13 | *** join/#utah Hanuman (~jstayii@pool-141-152-11-122.rich.east.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:51.13 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (~amb@ip-64-32-156-231.dsl.lax.megapath.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:51.13 | *** join/#utah Mecworks (marc@208.186.182.174) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:51.14 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by tolkien.freenode.net |
| 08:01.56 | *** join/#utah brailsmt1 (~michael@12-254-250-249.client.attbi.com) |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@65.218.37.161) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah Bonez39 (~Bonez@206.71.67.22) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah jayce_ (~jayce@slkc6400gw3poolB84.slkc.uswest.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (~emcnabb@12-255-28-7.client.attbi.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah Moeser (moeser@hades.moenix.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah Mecworks (marc@208.186.182.174) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (~amb@ip-64-32-156-231.dsl.lax.megapath.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah Hanuman (~jstayii@pool-141-152-11-122.rich.east.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah brailsmt (~michael@12-254-250-249.client.attbi.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah brailsmt1 (~michael@12-254-250-249.client.attbi.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah levi (~levi@208.177.141.226) |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah jtate (~jtate@rdu74-181-041.nc.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah hans (~fugalh@byu074948wks.rn.byu.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah albino (~albino@neuf.dorms.usu.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:15.02 | *** join/#utah ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 08:15.02 | *** mode/#utah [+oo Jayce^ ChanServ] by tolkien.freenode.net |
| 11:37.55 | *** join/#utah levi (~levi@208.177.141.226) |
| 11:38.01 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@65.218.37.161) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 11:38.01 | *** join/#utah Mecworks (marc@208.186.182.174) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 11:38.01 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (~amb@ip-64-32-156-231.dsl.lax.megapath.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 11:38.01 | *** join/#utah Hanuman (~jstayii@pool-141-152-11-122.rich.east.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 11:38.01 | *** join/#utah brailsmt (~michael@12-254-250-249.client.attbi.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 11:38.01 | *** join/#utah brailsmt1 (~michael@12-254-250-249.client.attbi.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 11:38.01 | *** join/#utah Moeser (moeser@hades.moenix.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 11:38.01 | *** join/#utah jayce_ (~jayce@slkc6400gw3poolB84.slkc.uswest.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 11:38.02 | *** join/#utah Bonez39 (~Bonez@206.71.67.22) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 11:38.02 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by tolkien.freenode.net |
| 12:45.17 | *** join/#utah Moeser (moeser@hades.moenix.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:45.17 | *** join/#utah jayce_ (~jayce@slkc6400gw3poolB84.slkc.uswest.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:45.17 | *** join/#utah Bonez39 (~Bonez@206.71.67.22) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:46.28 | *** join/#utah Bonez39 (~Bonez@206.71.67.22) |
| 13:29.46 | *** join/#utah elg (fugalh@byu080817wks.byu.edu) |
| 13:39.06 | Hanuman | Good morning - anyone awake yet? |
| 13:44.08 | *** join/#utah Bonez39 (~Bonez@206.71.67.22) |
| 14:01.37 | elg | morn |
| 14:04.56 | Hanuman | morn |
| 14:07.12 | jtate | Mornin' |
| 14:10.37 | Hanuman | elg: I never got an answer yesterday (I don't think) - what would be your favorite C++ book? |
| 14:15.01 | Hanuman | cool - Mozilla is so much css-standards compatible than IE |
| 14:15.12 | Hanuman | s/so much/so much more/ |
| 14:21.21 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@slkcdslgw12PoolD192.slkc.uswest.net) |
| 14:22.12 | elg | Hanuman: that's easy - http://www.research.att.com/~bs/3rd.html |
| 14:23.17 | Hanuman | hehe...take it from the source, eh? I ought to check that one out. |
| 14:23.56 | Hanuman | I have to admit - I'm impressed with the Windows version of Mozilla - much more stable than Netscape for Windows |
| 14:24.03 | Hanuman | Much more standards compliant, too |
| 14:24.18 | Hanuman | Looks like I will be using IE much less now |
| 14:24.26 | Hanuman | http://www.csszengarden.com/ |
| 14:28.02 | Hanuman | Note - that site does not work at all in IE |
| 14:28.06 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (~emcnabb@12-255-28-7.client.attbi.com) |
| 14:29.14 | elg | Hanuman: also much faster (although ie starts up quicker thanks to os integration) |
| 14:30.38 | Hanuman | It would work perfectly with my genealogy website system (haven't quite figured out an exact name for it yet) |
| 14:34.40 | jtate | Hanuman: If you use the mozilla quick start it comes up pretty quick. |
| 14:39.14 | Hanuman | yeah - I've got that installed. XP is slow, anyway, but it definitely helps. |
| 14:40.37 | Hanuman | What I don't get is if Microsoft can claim that its operating system can work independently of IE, why does a critical component such as Windows Update require it? |
| 14:41.19 | Hanuman | That alone shows me that they are practicing unfair competition using IE with their Operating System |
| 14:42.11 | Hanuman | I would like the default browser in my system to be Mozilla, and I want Mozilla to work with everything I normally can access |
| 14:42.24 | Hanuman | (w/ IE) |
| 14:42.47 | Hanuman | It's not fair that M$ prevents Mozilla from doing that |
| 14:45.04 | Hanuman | You know, I bet it wouldn't be hard to write a plugin for Mozilla that queries the M$ download site for updates to your system, and integrate it into the GUI of Mozilla |
| 14:48.57 | jtate | Hanuman: try uabar.mozdev.org. It allows you to spoof the user agent string to websites that blindly block mozilla. |
| 14:49.50 | Hanuman | opera allows that - I'll have to try that for Mozilla. Wonder if WindowsUpdate will still work. |
| 14:50.19 | jtate | Nope, but it'll let you in at least. |
| 14:52.45 | Hanuman | hehe...I want Windows Update to work w/o IE - This is what I don't understand as to why they haven't been broken up or forced to do such things |
| 14:56.10 | jtate | Hanuman: If you have XP installed, set it up to automatically download updates. |
| 14:56.39 | jtate | You won't get "Suggested updates", or driver updates, but you won't have to use IE (It'll be used behind the scenes). |
| 15:01.26 | Hanuman | yeah - it's flawed, though and doesn't work all the time for some reason. |
| 15:01.39 | Hanuman | In Win2k at home, it works all the time. |
| 15:01.58 | Hanuman | That is a good way of overcoming it, though |
| 15:02.19 | Hanuman | I can't seem to get uabar to work - I installed it, but can't figure out where to turn it on and select useragent strings, etc. |
| 15:25.03 | jtate | View->Show/Hide->Useragent Toolbar |
| 15:25.11 | jtate | You'll have to restart mozilla |
| 15:31.23 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@dsl.dyn.02-59.budget.net) |
| 15:32.01 | Hanuman | brb - need to reboot XP |
| 15:32.05 | Hanuman | :-( |
| 15:33.29 | elg | ~mock hanuman |
| 15:34.48 | jtate | ibot: lart Hanuman |
| 15:45.39 | Hanuman | ~lart Windows XP |
| 15:45.46 | Hanuman | thank you ibot |
| 15:45.50 | Hanuman | ibot: thanks |
| 15:45.50 | | Hanuman: my pleasure |
| 15:46.54 | Hanuman | jtate: I restarted Mozilla, etc - Useragent Toolbar isn't appearing in the menus. I wonder if I've got the wrong version. |
| 15:47.56 | jtate | Hanuman: What version of Mozilla are you running? |
| 15:49.16 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@dsl233.sisna.com) |
| 15:49.38 | Hanuman | 1.4 |
| 15:49.54 | jtate | uabar must be installed as root or equivalent |
| 15:50.46 | Hanuman | I thought I had admin privs - I'll have to double check - that could be it. |
| 15:51.10 | Hanuman | Hey - is there an Exchange plugin for Mozilla mail that will show calendar, tasks, etc? |
| 15:52.09 | jtate | http://<your exchange server ip>/ |
| 15:53.53 | Hanuman | hehe...I know how to do that - I was just curious if I could use Mozilla mail like Evolution or Outlook to connect to Exchange |
| 15:55.13 | jtate | You can, just not for calendar tasks, etc. If such a thing exists, check www.mozdev.org |
| 15:56.04 | *** join/#utah HarleyPig (~ayoung@209.180.91.155) |
| 16:04.03 | Hanuman | This mozilla mail client is very nice. I may just use it for mail. |
| 16:04.07 | Hanuman | Very secure |
| 16:07.30 | Hanuman | Yes - much better - more stable, too |
| 16:07.42 | Hanuman | I like the anti-spam features that are built-in |
| 16:08.07 | Hanuman | Also, I like that I can deny the request notification on receipt that people use - I hate that |
| 16:12.19 | jtate | The only problem is that it doesn't do a good job of keeping connections (refreshing connections) to IMAP servers. It occasionally loses the connection. |
| 16:12.38 | jtate | Switching the open folder generally fixes that. |
| 16:15.08 | Hanuman | That's good to know. I'll have to remember that. |
| 16:19.04 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 16:21.02 | elg | here's a rich spam |
| 16:21.04 | elg | or virus |
| 16:21.22 | elg | to hans@fugal.net, from admin@fugal.net (yeah, right) |
| 16:21.28 | elg | I would like to inform you about important information regarding your |
| 16:21.28 | elg | email address. This email address will be expiring. |
| 16:21.28 | elg | Please read attachment for details. |
| 16:21.45 | jtate | Yeah, that's been popping up on another list that I'm on. |
| 16:21.48 | jtate | It's a virus |
| 16:22.00 | elg | too bad I use linux, eh? |
| 16:22.41 | jtate | It's being sent to a LUG list. |
| 16:44.10 | Jayce^ | ~slashdot |
| 16:44.21 | Jayce^ | interesting top story 'eh? |
| 16:48.20 | HarleyPig | Darl McBride is claiming *conspiracy*!!! |
| 16:51.17 | brailsmt1 | darl mcbride is a disgrace to BYU grads all over... |
| 16:52.19 | emcnabb | and I wonder why he knows japanese so well |
| 16:53.44 | emcnabb | that virus has been confusing a ton of people in the CS dept |
| 16:54.23 | elg | Jayce^: my brother in law will be happy to hear that. |
| 16:55.38 | Hanuman | I can now use Linux on the desktop |
| 16:56.03 | Hanuman | HarleyPig: we should invite him to the LDSOSS list - wonder what he'd think of that. |
| 16:56.21 | Hanuman | He'd probably find some way to sue us |
| 16:56.56 | brailsmt1 | Hanuman: he already is suing us (albeit indirectly) |
| 16:57.31 | Bradipo | What kind of a virus is it? |
| 16:57.44 | HarleyPig | Hanuman: :D |
| 16:57.45 | Bradipo | Anyone have a copy and can post it to a website (as plain text). |
| 17:00.06 | Hanuman | I wonder if Disney would mind posting their porting solution somewhere so others can enjoy the wealth |
| 17:06.57 | elg | all together now, type help. If it gives you something other than the bash help message, do tell. |
| 17:11.13 | brailsmt1 | i got the bash help message |
| 17:12.11 | Jayce^ | Hanuman, in the article.. it's using wine... but they made sure it works for them.. |
| 17:13.22 | Jayce^ | "Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds |
| 17:13.34 | Jayce^ | cool.. |
| 17:13.54 | Jayce^ | brailsmt1.. wonder how close the perl debugger is to gdb in terms of your porting :) |
| 17:14.09 | brailsmt1 | as soon as I test it to make sure that much works I will release it as an alpha |
| 17:14.21 | emcnabb | Jayce^, that's a good quote |
| 17:14.28 | brailsmt1 | Jayce^: the ruy debugger is number 2 on the list... perl debugger isn't on the list |
| 17:14.35 | brailsmt1 | ;) |
| 17:16.42 | brailsmt1 | s/ruy/ruby |
| 17:16.55 | brailsmt1 | though the Ruy Lopez opening isn't too bad |
| 17:17.41 | elg | some idiot is ranting on the debian-devel list about how unusable debian is. He is the epitomy of contradiction. In the same email message he says that typing help at the command prompt should give a useful help message, that boot messages should be less cryptic, and that he is a 3+years daily linux user. |
| 17:17.56 | Hanuman | Jayce^: I'd like to see what steps they used to get it to work under Wine, though |
| 17:18.21 | jtate | elg: He should use Mandrake |
| 17:18.51 | brailsmt1 | some people think that just the simple act of using linux makes you knowledgeable |
| 17:18.54 | elg | jtate: exactly, but he is trying his darndest to look intelligent so the mean debian developers will agree to his point |
| 17:20.07 | elg | i remember a couple of months ago discovering the help command in bash. I guess I'd never bothered to type help before then. I was enlightened in my bash usage at that point |
| 17:20.54 | brailsmt1 | i did not know about it |
| 17:20.58 | brailsmt1 | until today |
| 17:20.58 | *** join/#utah HarleyPig (~ayoung@209.180.91.155) |
| 17:21.17 | jtate | it's like info, except with saner context hilighting |
| 17:21.20 | Jayce^ | lol: I find that wine helps me use a lot of Linux applications too. In fact, I have to be flat out drunk before I'll even start Emacs. |
| 17:21.37 | HarleyPig | :D |
| 17:21.48 | elg | Bradipo: I got ahold of the virus again (deleted it the first time) |
| 17:21.50 | elg | still want a copy? |
| 17:22.35 | elg | the zip file is one html |
| 17:23.13 | elg | with the following header |
| 17:23.14 | elg | MIME-Version: 1.0 |
| 17:23.14 | elg | Content-Location:File://foo.exe |
| 17:23.14 | elg | Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary |
| 17:24.51 | Hanuman | I highly recommend it - use it with F-Prot (free for noncommercial use) and you've got virus-free e-mails to all connecting to your mail server |
| 17:25.15 | elg | cringely's revised 'snapster' proposal is interesting |
| 17:30.10 | elg | mailman is broken on my box |
| 17:30.35 | elg | new subscriptions refuse to be processed. other functions work fine |
| 17:32.07 | Jayce^ | python whitespace error... |
| 17:32.08 | HarleyPig | Anyone live up near enough to AF and have the room and be willing to give me a ride to PLUG tomorrow night? |
| 17:32.22 | Jayce^ | :) sorry, had to say that just for levi's comments yesterday :D |
| 17:33.28 | jtate | elg: do you have a "mailman" list? |
| 17:33.50 | jtate | What version of mailman are you running? Did it get updated automatically? |
| 17:34.58 | elg | jtate: yes, 2.1.2, and yes |
| 17:35.15 | elg | (but I had to fix things re the mailman list once before and was under the impression that it was working) |
| 17:35.39 | elg | in /var/log/subscribe: Aug 01 15:12:43 2003 (599) gdmxml: pending Randy Wilson <wilsonr@ldschurch.org> 12.110.19.201 |
| 17:36.24 | elg | but no other message confirming it |
| 17:37.33 | jtate | Hmm. I've had a similar problem, but it was because postfix wasn't configured correctly. It wouldn't send out the confirmation request e-mails. |
| 17:37.34 | elg | mailman never sends the confirmation messages (or at least they never get to the destination) |
| 17:37.50 | jtate | Can you use smtp from the box normally? |
| 17:37.50 | elg | hmm. how was it misconfigured? |
| 17:37.55 | Jayce^ | any postfix errors? |
| 17:38.00 | elg | let's try |
| 17:38.08 | jtate | is it postfix or sendmail? |
| 17:38.24 | jtate | Also tail -f /var/log/maillog |
| 17:38.24 | elg | exim |
| 17:38.49 | jtate | jtate: Mine was set up to relay through another server, which didn't relay back. |
| 17:39.09 | jtate | Can't help you with exim. |
| 17:39.52 | elg | jtate: smtp is working fine |
| 17:40.03 | elg | i don't see squat in my mail logs about it |
| 17:40.49 | Jayce^ | smtp from localhost not working maybe? |
| 17:41.11 | elg | Jayce^: nope, just tested that |
| 17:42.39 | Hanuman | elg: that's because squat is an smb configuration client - oh wait, that's swat |
| 17:42.51 | Hanuman | ;-) |
| 17:43.08 | elg | what's more, is mailman has no trouble sending me the auto-discard notifications (which is a blessed feature, btw) |
| 17:43.36 | jtate | No clue elg |
| 17:44.45 | elg | a clue. at least one subscription attempt failed because relaying is prohibited. now I have to figure out if that's my server or the one on the other end |
| 17:45.02 | brailsmt1 | anyone care to draw some little tiny icons I can use for the gdb plugin? |
| 17:45.15 | brailsmt1 | a little stop sign, a little arrow, etc... |
| 17:45.31 | brailsmt1 | they can be no more than two chars width, and one char high |
| 17:45.50 | *** join/#utah elg (fugalh@byu080817wks.byu.edu) |
| 17:53.55 | elg | yup, that's the problem. relaying denied |
| 17:55.11 | Jayce^ | brailsmt1, scan your xpm's, etc.. gnome, kde, etc.. usually come with a bunch of those.. |
| 17:55.18 | Jayce^ | I've done that several times.. |
| 17:56.13 | elg | blast. now the server decides to go on vacation. |
| 17:56.49 | Bradipo | Which server? |
| 17:57.21 | elg | mine :p |
| 17:57.41 | elg | the thing is so dang slow and memory is so tight |
| 17:57.49 | elg | it could just be thrashing, or it may have crashed |
| 17:57.54 | elg | in any case it stopped responding |
| 17:58.06 | elg | (it could be network troubles too. I'll panic in about an hour) |
| 17:58.22 | Bradipo | lol |
| 17:58.40 | Bradipo | You running sendmail? |
| 17:58.42 | Jayce^ | elg, what kinda memory? |
| 17:58.46 | Jayce^ | and speed? |
| 17:58.51 | Bradipo | Sendmail will gladly chew up all your memory. |
| 17:59.34 | elg | real funky special IBM memory |
| 17:59.59 | elg | i actually have some extra that ed gave me (he gave me the box in thef irst place, then found more memory), but haven't gotten around to putting it in |
| 18:00.13 | elg | i guess if it's really down now would be a good time. :) |
| 18:00.33 | elg | but it's not. it's alive after all |
| 18:00.47 | brailsmt1 | good old halting problem... |
| 18:00.55 | brailsmt1 | is it really down, or just taking a long time? |
| 18:21.50 | elg | ~slashdot |
| 18:22.05 | elg | and that's an 'introductory' price |
| 18:23.51 | Jayce^ | dang, somebody just reviewed the book I was about to reveiw.. |
| 18:26.07 | brailsmt1 | quick, everyone switch to 2.6 kernel... |
| 18:26.19 | brailsmt1 | By purchasing a SCO Intellectual Property License, customers avoid infringement of SCO's intellectual property rights in Linux 2.4 and Linux 2.5 kernels. |
| 18:27.30 | *** join/#utah byersa (~byersa@c-67-161-222-80.client.comcast.net) |
| 18:35.38 | jtate | Some are suggesting unloading some of what they're selling on SCO's doorstop. A nice truckload of fresh manure. |
| 18:41.07 | Jayce^ | would be nice.. |
| 18:41.15 | brailsmt1 | i can't help but think that red hat forced SCO's hand on this one |
| 18:41.36 | brailsmt1 | i mean the day after rh announces its lawsuit, SCO releases this |
| 18:42.48 | Jayce^ | fuel for RH's injunction :) |
| 18:44.19 | emcnabb | oh, they've been planning this for a while |
| 18:44.33 | emcnabb | I personally heard that out of the mouth of McBride |
| 18:44.34 | brailsmt1 | emcnabb: yeah, but you must admit the timing is curious |
| 18:44.54 | brailsmt1 | the day after rh announces its lawsuit |
| 18:45.06 | emcnabb | yeah, but it takes days to get press releases ready, updates to the website, etc |
| 18:45.13 | emcnabb | that's not something you do over night |
| 18:45.21 | emcnabb | I just called up their offices |
| 18:45.25 | brailsmt1 | i bet it is |
| 18:45.29 | brailsmt1 | and/ |
| 18:45.30 | brailsmt1 | ? |
| 18:45.39 | emcnabb | just to harrass them |
| 18:45.41 | emcnabb | it was fun |
| 18:46.30 | Jayce^ | oh? do tell. |
| 18:46.52 | emcnabb | oh, I just asked prices |
| 18:47.09 | Jayce^ | price for how much? and what situation? |
| 18:47.27 | Jayce^ | wonder if the conference call is still going.. |
| 18:47.27 | emcnabb | then I asked if SCO ended up losing the lawsuit and this turned out to be a scam could I get my money back? |
| 18:47.37 | emcnabb | she said she would get back to me if I wanted |
| 18:47.39 | brailsmt1 | lol |
| 18:47.43 | Jayce^ | lol |
| 18:47.44 | jtate | Jayce^: Nope |
| 18:47.53 | brailsmt1 | emcnabb: don't count on it |
| 18:48.03 | Jayce^ | jtate, did you listen in? |
| 18:48.04 | elg | heh |
| 18:48.21 | emcnabb | she was like "I'm not sure about the answer to that, but if you give me your number I'll call you back" |
| 18:48.24 | emcnabb | it was funny |
| 18:48.33 | brailsmt1 | emcnabb: the license is how they plan to pay for the legal action... ; |
| 18:48.35 | jtate | No but someone on #trilug did |
| 18:48.35 | brailsmt1 | ;) |
| 18:48.38 | emcnabb | haha |
| 18:48.59 | Jayce^ | oohh.. $1400 if we wait a month |
| 18:49.00 | brailsmt1 | self-financing FUD |
| 18:49.04 | emcnabb | I know |
| 18:49.34 | brailsmt1 | or $0 since it isn't really SCO's to license ;) |
| 18:49.51 | elg | i can just see microsoft. "See, linux is so expensive!" |
| 18:49.57 | brailsmt1 | lol |
| 18:50.06 | elg | maybe redhat can start charging for MS licenses |
| 18:50.06 | emcnabb | oh yeah, that should happen in a day or two |
| 18:50.38 | jtate | elg: Maybe BSD can start charging for MS licenses |
| 18:51.03 | brailsmt1 | coming to video stores near you "MS does SCO"... |
| 18:51.11 | Jayce^ | heh.. counting the boxes with linux currently installed in my house, I would need to pay $4845, not including the mac, or the 12 other systems without anything atm.. |
| 18:51.46 | emcnabb | Jayce^, time to pay up; you've been having this free ride for too long |
| 18:52.16 | brailsmt1 | is that per kernel? I have probably 10 kernels... |
| 18:52.23 | elg | emcnabb, Jayce^: sounds like we need to organize some massive fundraisers. ;-) |
| 18:52.34 | brailsmt1 | at leatst |
| 18:53.10 | emcnabb | elg, haha! |
| 18:53.27 | Jayce^ | good point brailsmt1, then I'd be in serious crap :) |
| 18:54.12 | jtate | it's per cpu evidently |
| 18:54.22 | brailsmt1 | here is a neato link... |
| 18:54.24 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 18:54.24 | brailsmt1 | http://ir.sco.com/edgar.cfm |
| 18:54.37 | brailsmt1 | SCO has been dumping stock the last week... |
| 18:54.50 | brailsmt1 | s/week/several weeks/ |
| 18:57.06 | Jayce^ | what's interesting is the one guy selling as both "senior vp international sales" and also as a common employee |
| 18:57.48 | Hanuman | I find it interesting that SCO fails to mention that all RedHat and other Linux Kernel contributors have to do when the lawsuit comes out and the code is revealed is to just change the code in question. Then noone pays any license fees. |
| 18:57.54 | brailsmt1 | Reginald Charles must want to get out while the stock price is still in the $13 range |
| 18:58.02 | Jayce^ | "I hope when you buy these licenses you get a free T-Shirt with "Sucker!" in large letters on the front." |
| 18:58.20 | brailsmt1 | SCOcker, more than likely |
| 19:00.08 | Hanuman | people who pay the licenses have no understanding of Open-Source whatsoever |
| 19:00.25 | Hanuman | nor its power |
| 19:00.29 | brailsmt1 | people who pay the licenses deserve it |
| 19:00.40 | Jayce^ | interesting, pointed out on /., they attribute all the copyrights/trademarks in their press release except for Linux (c) |
| 19:01.00 | Hanuman | I think if anything this SCO case ought to strengthen OSS's position in the world - it will only show that it survives no matter what |
| 19:01.31 | Hanuman | I don't think it even matters if SCO wins the case - OSS and Linux will still survive |
| 19:01.44 | Hanuman | w/o licensing fees |
| 19:03.32 | brailsmt1 | i don't understand how SCO can charge for something that contains << 1% unix code (being generous here, if any unix code at all, and assuming that sco can prove it didn't put the code there in the first place) all the time claiming IP rights, while at the same time trampling all over Linus Torvalds' IP |
| 19:04.13 | brailsmt1 | seems like it screams hypocrisy to me... |
| 19:04.43 | brailsmt1 | of course that is the kind of ppl these SCO execs must be |
| 19:06.02 | Hanuman | brailsmt1: not just that, but that 1%, if it exists, can be changed probably almost overnight if it is certainly copyrighted code. Linus would be first to change it to not infringe on copyright laws. |
| 19:06.40 | jtate | Ok, so what have ya'll there in Utah done about this besides the protest? |
| 19:06.45 | Hanuman | If that code exists, SCO is charging for code that will probably no longer exist when this case is done iwth |
| 19:06.46 | brailsmt1 | hence the reason SCO does not release the code, and hence the reason rh filed for their preliminary injuction |
| 19:07.27 | brailsmt1 | too bad habeus corpus doesn't apply to corporations |
| 19:08.23 | Hanuman | I wonder how many people have old versions of Caldera on CD. We could all send them our copies via mail at once in a mail protest. |
| 19:08.34 | jtate | COD? |
| 19:09.18 | jtate | I've got free versions that I got from COMDEX or something |
| 19:09.23 | brailsmt1 | s/know/now |
| 19:09.33 | Hanuman | I've got a whole bunch, too. |
| 19:09.47 | Hanuman | I've been trying to figure out what to do with them. |
| 19:11.45 | brailsmt1 | that would be far more effective if organized on /. |
| 19:13.14 | Hanuman | yeah, but we would need a website to describe the event and details on when everyone should do it. Does PLUG want to sponsor this? |
| 19:14.13 | Hanuman | The question is, how many people would do it, and would we look like wimps with only a few CDs mailed to them, or would we make an impact by bombarding them with all their old CDs on the day we send them? |
| 19:14.59 | Hanuman | I guess I could get a semi-informal poll by using ask /. to ask that above question |
| 19:19.21 | brailsmt1 | http://www.quicken.com/investments/insider/?p=scox |
| 19:19.34 | brailsmt1 | that is a condensed version of the link i posted earlier |
| 19:23.11 | Hanuman | yeah - there has been some increased activity over there in their stock |
| 19:36.48 | emcnabb | we (CS Dept) owe about $110,000 to SCO, just for our openlabs; that doesn't include research labs and professor's computers |
| 19:36.48 | levi | We've sold clusters with over 2000 CPUs in them. |
| 19:36.49 | Jayce^ | hehe.. |
| 19:37.09 | *** join/#utah geekpimp (~geekpimp@dsl-212-23-23-232.zen.co.uk) |
| 19:39.16 | levi | But hey, that'd be a great revenue stream, if it actually worked for them. |
| 19:39.47 | levi | Charging people to run software you didn't create or distribute at all is a pretty good racket. |
| 19:40.05 | emcnabb | WE NEED TO GET $3 BILLION IN MONOPOLY MONEY!!!! |
| 19:40.22 | emcnabb | that would be a great plug activity! |
| 19:40.27 | emcnabb | post it to slashdot |
| 19:40.43 | emcnabb | we could drive it up to sco's office in a few trucks |
| 19:41.18 | emcnabb | we really want to do |
| 19:41.45 | emcnabb | it |
| 19:42.48 | brailsmt1 | btw: Reginald Broughton has sold > $750000 on stock in the last month and a half... |
| 19:42.56 | brailsmt1 | s/on/in |
| 19:43.10 | brailsmt1 | sounds suspicious... |
| 19:44.38 | emcnabb | wow |
| 19:45.35 | emcnabb | Jayce^, what do you think |
| 19:45.43 | emcnabb | or how about 3 billion turkish lira |
| 19:45.50 | emcnabb | that's worth $700 |
| 19:45.58 | emcnabb | or 1 SCO license |
| 19:47.42 | Jayce^ | dunno... |
| 19:48.37 | tensai | seems like sco tried to follow too closely enron's and worldcom's examples |
| 19:48.45 | tensai | only they let the details slip before getting caught |
| 19:49.07 | emcnabb | Jayce^, I'm going to bring a NeXT station tomorrow night to show off |
| 19:49.23 | Jayce^ | sweet |
| 19:49.44 | tensai | I bet Darl has a one way ticket to Brazil ready |
| 19:50.21 | Jayce^ | nah, too many brasileiros are open source folks, and it's easier to do things "outside of the law" there :) |
| 19:50.35 | tensai | shhhh. don't tell |
| 19:53.12 | elg | read that, source-distro lovers |
| 19:53.25 | Jayce^ | yeah, read that the other day |
| 19:53.50 | Jayce^ | of course elg, it does show mandrake kicking it up over debian too |
| 19:54.47 | elg | what? mandrake never rakes debian over the coals, and usually is behind debian |
| 19:55.02 | emcnabb | I think mandrake is the future |
| 19:55.06 | elg | with the exception of the version difference of gnumeric |
| 19:55.10 | emcnabb | that's what they've proved |
| 19:55.15 | Jayce^ | gnumeric was a big difference. |
| 19:55.18 | emcnabb | just like sco has proved it's case |
| 19:55.31 | elg | Jayce^: but when the same version of gnumeric was on debian, debian was faster than mandrake |
| 19:55.46 | elg | but for the most part everything was statistically indecisive |
| 19:56.03 | Jayce^ | mdk is slightly faster in gimp |
| 19:56.06 | elg | although gentoo lagged behind by about the same margin in all tests |
| 19:56.13 | elg | Jayce^: yes, that one test it led. |
| 19:56.23 | Hanuman | They were probably too afraid to put Redhat in there, as it would outdo all the others in the indecisive test |
| 19:56.28 | Jayce^ | well, out of three tests.. |
| 19:56.40 | elg | Jayce^: yes, it's not a huge test |
| 19:57.23 | elg | still it demonstrates that gentoo doesn't blow everything out of the water just be being compiled from source |
| 19:57.32 | Jayce^ | I just know that my smgl runs a crapload faster on my boxes that have it, vs the previous distro's they've used.. |
| 19:58.09 | elg | Jayce^: you should set up a benchmark then |
| 19:58.28 | Jayce^ | someday, in my "spare" time.. |
| 20:01.01 | elg | cool. ardour is in unstable |
| 20:01.41 | byersa | an interesting discussion. What is the general concensus on organizing all the lugs under one open source group in the state? |
| 20:02.09 | byersa | I think the state could sanction it and corporations sponsor. |
| 20:02.40 | byersa | Also, RH has started an Open Source Now Fund for legal defense. |
| 20:03.07 | byersa | I think it would be a nice gesture if we organized a compaign to raise money for it. |
| 20:03.33 | byersa | It would be a positive thing that brings to the attention of others how strongly we feel about this situation. |
| 20:06.50 | brailsmt1 | and have local chapters of the statewide organization |
| 20:10.19 | Jayce^ | yeah, we've had discussions on that.. |
| 20:10.59 | Jayce^ | but then you get some groups that don't want a "linux" group, or such |
| 20:24.44 | *** join/#utah levi_ (~levi@208.177.141.226) |
| 20:25.44 | levi_ | Hmm. |
| 20:35.06 | Hanuman | Cool ad on the back of the latest Information week: |
| 20:35.08 | Hanuman | Email |
| 20:35.14 | Hanuman | Oracle |
| 20:35.19 | Hanuman | 42000 Employees |
| 20:35.29 | Hanuman | 3 Oracle Email Database Servers |
| 20:35.34 | Hanuman | Microsoft |
| 20:35.39 | Hanuman | 50000 Employees |
| 20:35.52 | Hanuman | 110 Microsoft Exchange Servers (Source: Microsoft CIO) |
| 20:36.13 | Hanuman | "Unless you have as much money as Microsoft, you may want to use Oracle for email" |
| 20:36.46 | Jayce^ | heh |
| 20:37.41 | Hanuman | As expensive as they are, I have to admit, Oracle gets it (usually) |
| 20:43.11 | Bradipo | How much does Oracle cost for those 42000 employees versus how much it costs for the 50000 employees with MS? |
| 20:48.06 | Hanuman | That's the question |
| 20:48.18 | Hanuman | I don't know |
| 20:49.11 | Jayce^ | call your local oracle sales rep and find out :) |
| 20:49.19 | jtate | Well, if an oracle server license is comparable to an Exchange server license and client costs are similar, I'd say about $200,000 |
| 20:50.06 | Hanuman | It also depends on what types of contacts you have at M$ |
| 20:50.09 | Bradipo | I'll stick with postgres for now. :-) |
| 20:50.14 | Hanuman | M$ cuts deals all the time |
| 20:50.22 | Jayce^ | but so does oracle.. |
| 20:50.38 | Hanuman | Jayce^: that's probably true |
| 20:51.21 | emcnabb | yeah baby! we just got PXE booting network linux imaging installs working |
| 20:51.26 | emcnabb | www.systemimager.org |
| 20:51.37 | Jayce^ | the sales guys are the same on both sides... they have quotas to meet, commissions, leeway/margins... and of course mandates to "not lose" to certain clients at certain costs.. |
| 20:52.02 | Jayce^ | cool emcnabb, might have you present on that :) |
| 20:52.32 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@slkcdslgw12PoolD192.slkc.uswest.net) |
| 20:54.39 | Hanuman | emcnabb: so what does that mean now? |
| 20:55.55 | *** join/#utah geekpimp (~geekpimp@dsl-212-23-23-232.zen.co.uk) |
| 20:58.00 | emcnabb | we have a 150 linux lab machines |
| 20:58.13 | emcnabb | and one image that we want to install on all of them |
| 20:58.39 | emcnabb | in the past we took the image to each lab, connected it up, put floppies in each one, and made an exact replica |
| 20:59.03 | emcnabb | now we have a client that installs an image of itself on one of our servers |
| 20:59.13 | jtate | Ahh. Couldn't you get g4u to work on a PXE boot? |
| 20:59.30 | Jayce^ | dan hanks does all that kinda stuff with kickstart.. pretty interesting stuff. |
| 20:59.38 | emcnabb | now we can walk into any lab, hit f12, and it will reformate the drive and install an exact copy of the image on each one (with rsync) |
| 20:59.57 | Hanuman | very cool |
| 21:00.21 | emcnabb | it is very smooth |
| 21:00.29 | emcnabb | and will save us a lot of time |
| 21:00.45 | Hanuman | definitely. |
| 21:01.04 | emcnabb | SCO wants $32 for each linux embedded device |
| 21:01.04 | Hanuman | s/my/his/ |
| 21:01.20 | emcnabb | all of our servers run linux and 50%+ of the lab machines |
| 21:01.22 | Bradipo | How many linux embedded devices are there anyway? |
| 21:01.28 | Bradipo | Tivo, Zaurus? |
| 21:01.32 | emcnabb | our windows labs are empty these days |
| 21:01.33 | Hanuman | So would Tivo count as an embedded device, or full-blown linux license? |
| 21:01.43 | emcnabb | I think embedded |
| 21:02.09 | Hanuman | emcnabb: very cool. very different from the semester I was there. |
| 21:02.11 | emcnabb | it pretty much keeps people from making any more linux based devices :-) |
| 21:02.32 | emcnabb | yeah, it's been a struggle to convert people but it's working |
| 21:03.24 | emcnabb | and it doesn't help that hyperthreading and big mem support sucks in the 2.4 kernel (when our file server would crash some windows bigots would tell us how we would have no problems if they were using microsoft products) |
| 21:04.11 | Bradipo | No problems is a big stretch. |
| 21:04.12 | emcnabb | well, time to head home |
| 21:04.16 | emcnabb | later |
| 21:04.21 | Bradipo | Different problems is more realistic. |
| 21:04.27 | emcnabb | Bradipo, yeah |
| 21:24.12 | brailsmt1 | if only i had tiny little icons instead of text to show breakpoints and current line |
| 21:24.33 | brailsmt1 | now to get gdb output to a window of its own |
| 21:24.56 | brailsmt1 | then i can start working on 'disp' and 'print' commands to print to their own window... |
| 21:27.54 | tensai | Bradipo: we have two embedded Linux devices here. Both are file servers that my boss bought before I (the only Linux guru) got here. |
| 21:28.06 | jtate | brailsmt1: How is what you're doing different from DDD? |
| 21:29.13 | brailsmt1 | jtate: it runs inside vim |
| 21:29.42 | jtate | Ahh. That's nifty. |
| 21:29.53 | Jayce^ | brailsmt1, you do know, that I'm going to find some way to get you to come to plug and present that... |
| 21:29.55 | jtate | Can you launch make from inside vim? |
| 21:30.25 | Jayce^ | tensai, what brand? |
| 21:31.01 | brailsmt1 | jtate: definately |
| 21:32.57 | jtate | Hmm. I used to compile within emacs all the time. Haven't done much C/C++ coding in Linux in a while. |
| 21:33.58 | brailsmt1 | all you need is a Makefile then you run ":make" and you can jump to the errors |
| 21:34.37 | Jayce^ | what I'd like is to do it with the perl debugger, then automate the stuff you have to do to tie it with a mod_perl apache, and run the debugger on mod_perl scripts.. |
| 21:34.52 | jtate | Cool. Now to learn how to quickly jump between files |
| 21:34.58 | tensai | Jayce^: 3com and Snap! |
| 21:35.33 | Jayce^ | tensai, cool... a friend just got hired as the utah rep for adic support... a lot of their stuff is embedded linux.. |
| 21:35.42 | Jayce^ | jtate, d'oh |
| 21:36.06 | Bradipo | tensai: Are they Cobalt Qubes? |
| 21:36.58 | tensai | Bradipo: yeah, I wish |
| 21:37.06 | Bradipo | THat bad eh? |
| 21:37.35 | tensai | why do you say that? |
| 21:38.01 | brailsmt1 | http://brailsmt.homelinux.org/img/gdb_vim_plugin.png |
| 21:39.14 | Jayce^ | ooohhh |
| 21:39.22 | levi | Spiffy. |
| 21:39.37 | levi | brailsmt: You know, you're making vim more like emacs... ;) |
| 21:39.38 | brailsmt1 | i hope to have a usable version by the weekend |
| 21:39.57 | brailsmt1 | levi: except this is a plugin, and you don't get it unless you want it |
| 21:40.23 | Jayce^ | brailsmt1, yeah, definately a presentation... yeah... |
| 21:40.48 | levi | Well, same with emacs. The gdb mode is elisp code you have to load. Same sort of deal. Just giving you a hard time, you know it's one of my hobbies now. ;) |
| 21:40.52 | brailsmt1 | ok, but this is like really, really, really super-duper alpha atm |
| 21:41.04 | brailsmt1 | levi: i know |
| 21:41.26 | brailsmt1 | ;) |
| 21:41.47 | brailsmt1 | actually, only a brailsmt troll |
| 21:41.50 | brailsmt1 | :) |
| 22:00.43 | levi | ruby suxxors!!1 |
| 22:01.03 | levi | python r000lz!!! |
| 22:01.14 | levi | Ahem. |
| 22:36.03 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@dsl233.sisna.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:36.03 | *** join/#utah Bonez39 (~Bonez@206.71.67.22) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:36.03 | *** join/#utah hans (~fugalh@byu074948wks.rn.byu.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:36.03 | *** join/#utah albino (~albino@neuf.dorms.usu.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:36.44 | *** join/#utah jtate (~jtate@rdu74-181-041.nc.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:38.33 | *** join/#utah Retina (~Bonez@206.71.67.22) |
| 22:40.40 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@dsl233.sisna.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:40.40 | *** join/#utah hans (~fugalh@byu074948wks.rn.byu.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:40.40 | *** join/#utah albino (~albino@neuf.dorms.usu.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:45.26 | *** join/#utah brailsmt_work (michael@byu080817wks.byu.edu) |
| 22:55.23 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (~emcnabb@12-255-28-7.client.attbi.com) |
| 23:04.38 | brailsmt_work | http://www.xmission.com/~fozz/darlandsaddam.jpg <-- from plug |
| 23:04.52 | Jayce^ | yeah, was just looking at that one, quite funny |
| 23:51.11 | Jayce^ | During the press conference, McBride also said, "Red Hat claims that SCO is at fault for Red Hat's loss of business. We believe it's not our fault. We believe Red Hat is losing business because Red Hat has a faulty business model and that the business model's real problem is that it based around distributing Linux under the General Public License (GPL)." |
| 23:51.42 | brailsmt_work | the guy is on something |
| 23:51.49 | brailsmt_work | a power trip maybe |
| 23:53.41 | Jayce^ | I like how this so called formel gpl pushing company now is so against it.. |
| 23:54.00 | Jayce^ | just because they couldn't do it right, doesn't mean it can't be done.. |
| 23:55.24 | brailsmt_work | Jayce^: not so fast my freind, in their press release where they offered to seel us a license to use a free OS they state that their license conforms with the GPL... |
| 23:56.21 | Jayce^ | only because it *has* to :) |
