| 00:00.36 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@65.218.37.161) |
| 00:00.48 | Bradipo | Jayce^: you know Cisco well? |
| 00:01.10 | Jayce^ | no.. |
| 00:01.43 | Jayce^ | never managed cisco stuff, only times I've had it at a company, it's been colo and managed |
| 00:18.03 | Bradipo | Ok. |
| 00:18.48 | Bradipo | goozbach: Do you know how to tftp a config from a router to a system? |
| 00:56.42 | goozbach | Bradipo: sorry I don't. I didn't get much time to play on that hardware before we sold it. |
| 00:59.08 | Bradipo | Hehe, that's alright. |
| 00:59.16 | Bradipo | I think the problem is that the packets aren't getting to the router. |
| 00:59.46 | Jayce^ | hehe.. speaking of it... just got an email from rackspace, doing emergency upgrades on our cisco pix tonight :) |
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| 01:19.38 | emcnabb | there have been a lot of security holes recently; bugtraq has been really busy :-) |
| 01:21.01 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 02:08.36 | rama___ | fortunately it's only for a direct frame between us and our distributor |
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| 03:01.50 | neybar | anyone on here know their way around gimp? |
| 03:03.50 | synic | I dunno, what are you looking for? |
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| 03:18.41 | neybar | I am trying to export a file to gif and gimp isn't letting me. I want to create a file that has a transparent background. Jpeg won't work cause it doens't do transparency. png would be ok except that IE sucks and fumbles over png. |
| 03:19.13 | Jayce^ | neybar, your version *might* not have the gif libraries, due to the old restrictions.. |
| 03:19.43 | synic | yeah, if it has them.. you basically just save it as a gif. |
| 03:19.50 | neybar | it lists gif in my options but won't let me select it... seems odd to list it if I can't create them |
| 03:20.42 | Jayce^ | probably your libraries then, probably not compiled in.. |
| 03:20.59 | neybar | hmm |
| 03:21.19 | rama__ | neybar: You can get the gif libraries from their website - you just have to say you live in another country... |
| 03:21.32 | neybar | lol |
| 03:22.26 | rama__ | They didn't build in gif support on purpose. I don't think they've updated it to support the expiration of the patent (is that what happened?) |
| 03:22.38 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 03:23.30 | synic | bleh. I thought we were all gentoo users by now? emerge gimp! |
| 03:23.31 | synic | :) |
| 03:24.26 | rama__ | I may just need to learn more about gimp - I hear there are a lot of plugins that can make it work very similar to Photoshop |
| 03:27.11 | Jayce^ | bleh: gentoo |
| 03:27.32 | Jayce^ | gimp can even use photoshops plugins |
| 03:28.13 | rama__ | Jayce^: I didn't realize that... |
| 03:28.36 | rama__ | I ought to get a Gimp book. Can you train Gimp to work with Photoshop shortcuts? |
| 03:29.23 | Jayce^ | not sure, go look for 'grokking the gimp'.. |
| 03:29.27 | Jayce^ | it's available free online |
| 03:30.32 | rama__ | downloading it as we speak... |
| 03:31.15 | rama__ | http://genoogle.thestays.org - think Google can sue me for this - it's going to use their search engine (don't try it - it doesn't work yet) |
| 03:31.58 | rama__ | I'm doing it as kind of POC - maybe if it works and people like it Google would adapt something like it to use Google to do their genealogy |
| 03:52.23 | rama__ | time for bed... |
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| 13:57.13 | elg | anyone running windows at the moment? |
| 13:57.28 | elg | (you can /msg me if you're too embarrassed to say aloud ;-) |
| 14:06.53 | rama__ | I am...I'm also running Linux at the same time. |
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| 14:14.36 | *** mode/#Utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 14:16.37 | *** part/#utah TimRiker (~timr@proxyle01.ext.ti.com) |
| 14:23.34 | elg | rama__: would you have a moment to check out http://www.adobe.com/svg/viewer/install/beta.html |
| 14:23.53 | elg | and answer a few questions: is it standalone or a browser plugin? does it work with mozilla? |
| 14:56.52 | rama__ | I think it's a plugin...not sure what browsers it's compatible with - can't figure that out |
| 14:57.01 | rama__ | For a Linux version, you can try http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/magic/svgviewer/linux/3.x/3.0x77/en/adobesvg-3.0-linux-i386.tar.gz |
| 14:57.14 | rama__ | They say it's for Red Hat, though |
| 14:58.17 | elg | familiar with that one |
| 14:58.27 | elg | also familiar with its problems |
| 14:58.53 | rama__ | There's a Solaris version |
| 14:58.57 | elg | it's a long story, but basically adobe 'release early release often'd and mozilla changed their unfrozen API |
| 15:00.19 | rama__ | "If you install another copy of Mozilla/Netscape 6 which supports Mozilla plug-ins, you can make a symbolic link from the file libNPSVG3.so in installation folder to your browser's plugins folder" |
| 15:00.21 | elg | mozilla as a whole doesn't really care about svg very much, and adobe got mad. so we were left with a broken (but half-functional) plugin |
| 15:00.34 | rama__ | That's from the readme of the Red Hat install |
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| 17:23.46 | rama__ | elg: you may have converted me to Debian...that policy of shared libraries is impressive. |
| 17:24.42 | rama__ | can someone kick my rama id off? For some reason the system still thinks it's logged on, and these __ are bugging me |
| 17:25.15 | rama__ | nm - doesn't look like it's being listed in this channel |
| 17:25.18 | Bradipo | rama__: if you have registered your nick with NickServ you can kick it yourself. |
| 17:25.28 | rama__ | someone else must be using it |
| 17:25.34 | elg | poor rama |
| 17:25.38 | rama__ | Someone else has it registered, but never uses it |
| 17:26.05 | Bradipo | Maybe they're using it now. |
| 17:26.06 | Bradipo | :-) |
| 17:26.59 | jayce | not sure why my other machine doesnt' have ops right now |
| 17:28.04 | rama__ | Bradipo: NickServ says they haven't logged on for 13 weeks |
| 17:28.14 | rama__ | s/13/18/ |
| 17:29.15 | ramannoodle | This at least gets rid of the __ |
| 17:30.06 | \ | interesting... |
| 17:30.37 | elg | heh |
| 17:30.41 | elg | keep that one. register it |
| 17:31.08 | Bradipo | Maybe you you spell it ramen (i.e. ramen noodles) |
| 17:31.09 | jayce | yeah, definately register |
| 17:31.16 | \ | already registered |
| 17:31.21 | jayce | mmm.. ramen... back to the college days :) |
| 17:31.26 | \ | I'll steal it for now |
| 17:31.36 | Bradipo | Or if you like ramen, ichiban is better. |
| 17:31.49 | Bradipo | But poor college students usually can't afford ichiban. |
| 17:31.53 | \ | I like rama better - the reincarnation of Vishnu in the Ramayana |
| 17:32.15 | \ | I was taught that in elementary school when I lived in Indonesia |
| 17:36.09 | ` | dang it - that one's registered, too |
| 17:36.25 | ` | I like this one even better, though |
| 17:36.38 | ` | nah - the other is closer to root... |
| 17:37.50 | \usr\bin\perl | cool...now that's better |
| 17:39.35 | \usr\bin\perl | if only it allowed the # and the ! |
| 17:39.40 | jayce | hehe.. a little funky though.. |
| 17:39.47 | jayce | needs / though :) |
| 17:39.57 | \usr\bin\perl | yeah - we'll pretend it's Windows... |
| 17:40.40 | \usr\bin\perl | doesn't like the / even w/i the nick |
| 17:46.30 | \usr\bin\perl | cool - got this one registered... |
| 17:47.13 | \usr\bin\perl | now if only the system could take rama off so I can register that one |
| 17:48.19 | \usr\bin\perl | wish the : worked - i'd probably be banned from this channel, though |
| 17:48.58 | \\usr\bin\perl | now it doesn't have to be Windows... |
| 17:49.36 | \\usr\bin\perl | I'm done experimenting now |
| 17:50.25 | \\usr\bin\perl | it would be cool if irc accepted unicode characters, or non-standard ascii |
| 17:50.32 | \\usr\bin\perl | (for nicks) |
| 17:51.39 | elg | anyone up for a lunchtime game of bzflag? |
| 17:51.59 | levi | \\usr\bin\perl: Or arbitrary bitmaps |
| 17:52.00 | jayce | not on this box/network.. .if I was home I coulda |
| 17:52.00 | Bradipo | I'm downloading it... |
| 17:52.09 | Bradipo | I'll test it out on my new desktop here at work. :-) |
| 17:52.18 | jayce | Bradipo, what'd you get? |
| 17:52.24 | Bradipo | Well, it's not really new. |
| 17:52.28 | Bradipo | I've had it for a while. |
| 17:52.40 | Bradipo | But it's an AMD Athlon XP 2800 |
| 17:52.49 | \\usr\bin\perl | My lunchtime just barely ended |
| 17:53.04 | \\usr\bin\perl | Bradipo: is this for home or work? |
| 17:57.22 | *** join/#utah jayce (~jayce@slkc6400gw3poolC139.slkc.uswest.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:57.22 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (~amb@ip-64-32-156-231.dsl.lax.megapath.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:59.28 | elg | Bradipo: cool. it'll be a few - are you flexible? |
| 17:59.44 | Bradipo | Hmm, didn't work so well. |
| 17:59.51 | elg | (we gotta test drive the server on phantom for the uug party tomorrow) |
| 18:02.17 | elg | oh? |
| 18:02.45 | jayce | elg, I could probably test tonight :) |
| 18:02.57 | elg | jayce: I won't be on a computer that can handle it tonight. :) |
| 18:03.10 | jayce | lol... elg, you *really* need a new computer.. |
| 18:03.44 | elg | amen. I'm secretly hoping that we'll have enough to get a laptop just before fall semester |
| 18:03.49 | jayce | even if you just had a &*() agp slot, I could hook you up with a card.. |
| 18:03.52 | elg | it's a long shot but not completely impossible |
| 18:04.16 | jayce | what kinda budget you think you'll have? what performance? |
| 18:04.39 | *** join/#utah goozbach (~drock@216.20.236.28) |
| 18:04.47 | elg | thinking medium performance. $500 to $1000 if I'm really lucky |
| 18:04.59 | jayce | medium == 1ghz? what? |
| 18:05.15 | elg | sure, ghzish |
| 18:05.26 | jayce | $1k, get an ibook :) |
| 18:05.35 | elg | that's what I have my eye on :) |
| 18:05.48 | jayce | ebay ebay ebay :) |
| 18:06.35 | elg | not so sure about ebay for something like a laptop. |
| 18:07.02 | elg | i don't want trash ;-) I'd rather end up with a slower reliable machine than fast trash |
| 18:07.38 | jayce | well, there's always the financing option too |
| 18:08.06 | jayce | my wife's ibook has really made me want a mac laptop.. |
| 18:09.45 | \\usr\bin\perl | I like the fact that you don't need a crossover cable to connect 2 laptops together with one CAT5 |
| 18:09.53 | \\usr\bin\perl | (on ibooks) |
| 18:10.26 | jayce | just use wireless :) |
| 18:12.53 | \\usr\bin\perl | I saw on TechTV the other day software that can be used on a Mac to control a presentation using bluetooth from a cell phone to that on an ibook |
| 18:16.31 | jayce | hrmm, anybody know offhand the host for aim authentication, seems to have disappeared from my gaim |
| 18:17.17 | elg | login.oscar.aol.com |
| 18:17.20 | elg | 5190 |
| 18:17.50 | jayce | thanks... that was a little wierd.. |
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| 18:41.57 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@208.186.182.172) |
| 18:41.57 | *** topic/#utah is http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Operating_Systems/Linux/User_Groups/North_America/United_States/Utah/ --- http://mirror.lug-nut.com <- sco protest site |
| 18:41.57 | *** mode/#Utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 19:14.46 | elg | hey folks, |
| 19:14.52 | elg | it's national ice cream day |
| 19:15.28 | \\usr\bin\perl | funny - I actually brought ice cream to work for the first time today w/o knowing that |
| 19:20.15 | *** join/#utah orbit (~hanksdc@63.108.71.130) |
| 19:21.22 | jayce | wow.. something's up, orbit entered the room :) |
| 19:21.30 | orbit | hehe. |
| 19:21.45 | orbit | Nah, just thought I'd mosey on over... |
| 19:21.47 | jayce | orbit, probably will have that swap meet at a different time too, so you could come.. |
| 19:22.55 | jayce | anybody here tried getting a RH 9 box to have kmail + agypten (gpg authentication, etc.) |
| 19:23.06 | jayce | know of an rpm? |
| 19:38.15 | \\usr\bin\perl | sup orbit? Don't see you here often... |
| 19:38.29 | \\usr\bin\perl | (btw - I'm just experimenting w/ this nick) |
| 19:50.12 | \\usr\bin\perl | I'm surprised this hasn't made /. yet |
| 19:50.46 | \\usr\bin\perl | Thawte just issued us an e-mail saying there was a bug in their cert issuing software that allowed you to share the same serial number as another user on their network |
| 19:50.50 | \\usr\bin\perl | That's bad |
| 19:51.24 | \\usr\bin\perl | The scary thing is that they don't specify a way to overcome the problem |
| 19:58.31 | jayce | so post it |
| 20:00.36 | orbit | ewps |
| 20:00.49 | orbit | So much for good PKI.... |
| 20:05.57 | \\usr\bin\perl | orbit: what do those acronyms mean? - I'm not very good with acronyms |
| 20:07.18 | orbit | PKI = Public Key Infrastructure |
| 20:07.29 | \\usr\bin\perl | ewps? |
| 20:07.52 | orbit | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:07.58 | orbit | :-) |
| 20:08.38 | \\usr\bin\perl | hehe - didn't see that - I was thinking too hard... |
| 20:09.06 | \\usr\bin\perl | I can't figure out how to submit a potential post to /. Anyone had experience doing this b4? |
| 20:09.44 | jayce | 'submit story' link on the left hand side |
| 20:10.12 | \\usr\bin\perl | ahh...there it is. tnx |
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| 20:31.56 | elg | www.neurosaudio.com |
| 20:32.04 | elg | ogg firmware |
| 20:39.33 | \\usr\bin\perl | They rejected my Thawte story - must not be that big of news |
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| 20:47.01 | *** join/#utah orbit (~hanksdc@63.108.71.130) |
| 20:47.34 | goozbach | WTF I reconnect to my irc session and I am no longer logged into fslc.usu.edu but planetradio.de. |
| 20:47.57 | goozbach | something if FU**ED up. |
| 20:49.08 | goozbach | anyone able to ping fslc.usu.edu? |
| 20:50.08 | jayce | nope |
| 20:50.22 | orbit | Ditto here. |
| 20:51.20 | orbit | I can even resolve it from DNS. |
| 20:51.33 | orbit | Er can't |
| 20:54.40 | elg | i can |
| 20:55.15 | orbit | Same here. |
| 21:01.34 | orbit | Anyone know if mailman can obfuscate email addrs in list archives? |
| 21:01.59 | jayce | orbit, you ask mike yet? maybe he knows |
| 21:02.18 | jayce | I'd say to add it in, but it's python, and who'd want to willingly work on python code? |
| 21:02.27 | jayce | dang, brailsmt isn't in here :) |
| 21:03.01 | orbit | It looks like Mike has set mailman to show the list address for each post as the person's email address. |
| 21:03.20 | orbit | I guess that sorta works... |
| 21:03.32 | orbit | Would be nice if it could do something like foo at blah dot com |
| 21:03.35 | elg | brailsmt is sitting next to me |
| 21:03.35 | *** join/#utah brailsmt_work (michael@byu080993wks.byu.edu) |
| 21:03.48 | jayce | lol.. |
| 21:03.56 | elg | orbit: I think recent versions of mailman do it |
| 21:04.02 | jayce | just wanted brailsmt_work to have a chance to pipe in on the python code :) |
| 21:04.10 | elg | well, not obfuscate, but they don't show it |
| 21:04.44 | brailsmt_work | :) |
| 21:04.52 | jayce | orbit, you could do the 'right' thing for the lds-oss mailing list too, and annoy Bradipo, make replies to the list :) |
| 21:05.03 | jayce | ~lart python |
| 21:05.25 | elg | ~lart list reply-to |
| 21:05.41 | levi | python rocks! |
| 21:05.50 | jayce | ~lart non-list reply-to |
| 21:05.56 | brailsmt_work | lets overload the + operator in python "def __add__..." that makes perfect sense... |
| 21:06.03 | brailsmt_work | ruby: "def +..." |
| 21:06.10 | brailsmt_work | much easier to read :) |
| 21:06.41 | levi | ruby sucks! |
| 21:06.46 | brailsmt_work | lets find an array length in "OO" python... 'arrayLen(an_array)' |
| 21:06.55 | Bradipo | Good thing I'm not on lds-oss |
| 21:06.57 | Bradipo | :-) |
| 21:06.58 | brailsmt_work | ruby: an_array.length |
| 21:07.00 | levi | emacs rules! |
| 21:07.19 | jayce | Bradipo, no, it's set up the way you like... non list reply-to |
| 21:07.23 | brailsmt_work | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:07.27 | brailsmt_work | ;) |
| 21:07.27 | jayce | the way I dont' like.. |
| 21:07.28 | Bradipo | Oh, I better get on there! |
| 21:07.37 | Bradipo | While it's still uncorrupted. |
| 21:07.41 | jayce | brailsmt_work, yeah, he's in windows.. he has other issues.. |
| 21:07.48 | brailsmt_work | lol |
| 21:08.12 | Bradipo | That's one of the reasons why I stopped following UUG and I will probably drop PLUG eventually. |
| 21:08.20 | jayce | levi, now get serious, start shouting that it has to be GNU/* |
| 21:08.35 | Bradipo | Too much work for me to have to go back and insert someone's email address. |
| 21:08.48 | jayce | Bradipo, probably, since mike and I much prefer list reply-to |
| 21:08.56 | Bradipo | That's why I wrote my reply filter to ignore the reply-to for PLUG. |
| 21:09.19 | orbit | Bradipo: I have no such problem with my email client. |
| 21:09.19 | Bradipo | Because it really can't be trusted. |
| 21:09.35 | Bradipo | How do I know that the original poster didn't want replies to go directly to him instead of the list... |
| 21:09.44 | orbit | He would have said so. |
| 21:09.49 | Bradipo | orbit: So, when you hit reply to PLUG what happens? |
| 21:09.53 | jayce | why wouldn't you? |
| 21:10.22 | jayce | replies to the pluglist.. of which, the poster is a member, so he get's 1 copy... |
| 21:10.30 | Bradipo | What if you want to reply directly to the original poster and not the list? |
| 21:10.35 | brailsmt_work | 'L' - replies to the list (if I am subscribed), 'r' -- replies to the author... |
| 21:10.40 | jayce | I cant' stand it when a person replies to me, and the list and I get a couple copies.. |
| 21:10.45 | orbit | Ditto. |
| 21:10.53 | brailsmt_work | gotta love mutt |
| 21:10.59 | Bradipo | I love it. |
| 21:11.20 | Bradipo | What happens if I post a message and then minutes after the list server goes down or there is a mail loop or routing issue somewhere with PLUG? |
| 21:11.46 | Bradipo | I will then have to wait for someone to fix PLUG before I get a reply, however, if someone replies to me and Cc's the list, I get their reply immediately. |
| 21:11.48 | Bradipo | No waiting on the list. |
| 21:11.49 | jayce | same thing can happen to the person.. |
| 21:11.57 | Bradipo | Also, what if the list has 10000 subscribers... |
| 21:12.16 | Bradipo | It could be minutes to hours before I get a reply, whereas if he replies directly to me with a Cc I get it instantly. |
| 21:12.22 | Bradipo | Provided there aren't other issues. |
| 21:13.17 | orbit | If he wanted to get ahold of you so badly he would email you directly anyways. |
| 21:13.34 | elg | jayce: never slap a moose ;-) |
| 21:13.39 | jayce | or IM, or phone, or talk... yadda yadda... it's the nature of email.. |
| 21:13.43 | Bradipo | Well, it's not about getting ahold of me. |
| 21:13.59 | jayce | elg, got a funny story about that actually.. |
| 21:14.13 | Bradipo | It's when I send an email to a mailing list with thousands of subscribers, if someone replies, I don't want to wait for the mailing list to process everyone else's address before I get it. |
| 21:14.33 | Bradipo | In the past, PLUG was very, very slow and it sucked waiting for the reply to come. |
| 21:14.45 | Bradipo | Things have improved in that respect though. |
| 21:14.52 | jayce | worked at a scout camp in idaho one year... had a lot of moose there... some bright kid thought he'd try sneaking up, and grabbing a cow's (female moose) back hooves.. |
| 21:15.18 | jayce | Bradipo, that was a software and hardware concern though... |
| 21:17.25 | elg | list reply-to is for users of simplistic MUAs. that's the long and short of it. |
| 21:18.10 | Bradipo | Amen. |
| 21:18.52 | Bradipo | Or stated more bluntly, reply-to is for unsophisticated users that use unintelligent MUAs. ;-) |
| 21:19.04 | Bradipo | i.e. Outlook... |
| 21:19.11 | orbit | Pine ;-) |
| 21:19.14 | orbit | Yeah, baby! |
| 21:19.21 | jayce | ouch.. |
| 21:19.25 | Bradipo | I still use pine. |
| 21:19.28 | Bradipo | Not very often. |
| 21:19.35 | orbit | It's about all I use. |
| 21:19.38 | Bradipo | But it does have list reply I believe. |
| 21:19.45 | orbit | Call me simplistic, but it works fine. |
| 21:21.05 | orbit | And it handles the Reply-to quite nicely. |
| 21:21.17 | orbit | No confusion (usually) for me as to whom I am sending email. |
| 21:23.18 | Bradipo | Well, my point is that it shouldn't have to handle the reply-to |
| 21:23.27 | Bradipo | All modern mailing lists use list- headers. |
| 21:23.52 | Bradipo | A ``simplistic'' MUA would need only use the list- headers to determine whether or not to reply to the list. |
| 21:24.04 | Bradipo | reply-to could then be unambigous. |
| 21:24.23 | Bradipo | The problem is, some bright mailing list administrator thought it would be cool to overload the reply-to header's function. |
| 21:25.11 | Bradipo | Granted, for some specific types of mailing list, a reply-to might be appropriate (i.e. automated announcements, or the like). |
| 21:25.43 | Bradipo | It all comes down to ease of use versus education. |
| 21:25.53 | orbit | Sure. |
| 21:25.54 | Bradipo | Unfortunately, ease of use always wins out (Windows has taught us that). |
| 21:26.23 | Bradipo | People don't want to learn things, they just want it to work. |
| 21:27.04 | jayce | no, that's not what windows taught us, or mac would have ruled a long time ago |
| 21:27.13 | Bradipo | Out of all the mailing lists I subscribe to, PLUG is the only one that uses reply-to |
| 21:27.29 | Bradipo | I'm on a number of DJB lists, OpenBSD, and various other technical mailing lists. |
| 21:27.31 | brailsmt_work | i will have an annuerism the next time I hear someone say that they don't want to learn anything to make their computer work... |
| 21:27.32 | orbit | lds-oss might be headed there soon too ;-) |
| 21:28.05 | orbit | I don't think it's always that people don't want to learn... |
| 21:28.19 | orbit | Just that they sometimes have other things they'd prefer to learn about. |
| 21:28.40 | Bradipo | Maybe. |
| 21:28.41 | orbit | Instead of spending endless hours just trying to get their email to work. |
| 21:30.17 | brailsmt_work | everyone has to learn something to use a computer, I usually hear it when I mention linux to anybody... you can use kde without spending hours to get things to work... |
| 21:30.42 | Bradipo | What I find funny is that once they have learned something, they forget how to learn. |
| 21:30.46 | jayce | yeah, I had my wife playing with kde and gnome, it was easy (and she didnt' want to admin it :) ) |
| 21:30.56 | Bradipo | Do you think it was easy for people to learn how to use Windows for the first time? |
| 21:31.03 | Bradipo | Why do they expect Linux to be any easier? |
| 21:31.06 | jayce | of course, I got my wife a mac, and now it's even easier.. |
| 21:31.23 | brailsmt_work | Bradipo: my point exactly |
| 21:31.28 | jayce | Bradipo, that's laziness... they learned one, and dont' want to learn another.. |
| 21:31.29 | Bradipo | Mac just got easier to use, now that it has Unix underneath. :-) |
| 21:31.34 | jayce | yup |
| 21:31.43 | Bradipo | The problem is not that they don't want to learn. |
| 21:31.47 | Bradipo | It's that they are afraid to learn. |
| 21:31.48 | jayce | mac just got allowed in my house, since it has unix underneath :) |
| 21:31.54 | Bradipo | Computers scare the majority of people. |
| 21:32.11 | Bradipo | Not just computers, but technology in general and technical terms are above most people's heads. |
| 21:32.13 | brailsmt_work | my next new computer will be a mac |
| 21:32.21 | Bradipo | Mine too, I think. |
| 21:32.31 | Bradipo | If I ever have enough money for a new one. :-) |
| 21:32.35 | jayce | i'm still at a toss up... if my next desktop (someday) will be mac or opteron |
| 21:32.39 | levi | Excellent. :) |
| 21:32.53 | levi | My current primary computer at home is an ancient Mac. |
| 21:33.03 | jayce | but it will be at least 64 bit, that's for sure.. |
| 21:33.10 | brailsmt_work | my wife want something easy to use (she doesn't think KDE on a 300 MHz machine is easy, she is right, it is slooooow), i want something where I don't have to pay the MS tax... |
| 21:33.41 | jayce | brailsmt_work, get the wife a mac... seriously, my 'tech support' time is down to almost nothing.. |
| 21:34.12 | brailsmt_work | i always ask computer sales ppl how much they will take off the price if they sell me a computer without windows installed... the usually say $50... last I checked windows cost more than $50 per license... |
| 21:34.28 | Bradipo | Yeah, that's lame. |
| 21:34.30 | jayce | brailsmt_work, oem's can get discounts.. |
| 21:34.44 | brailsmt_work | that steep a discount though? |
| 21:34.47 | tensai | I'm amazed they'll take off anything |
| 21:34.48 | jayce | yes, it is.. |
| 21:35.14 | Bradipo | Tell them that you won't buy from them unless it is their cost less MS Windows retail price. |
| 21:35.30 | brailsmt_work | i have asked TAC, AROMA, and a similar place in Orem... |
| 21:35.35 | jayce | retail price :) now that'd be a good discount.. |
| 21:35.39 | Bradipo | Yep. |
| 21:35.50 | Bradipo | That's your tax for them making crooked deals with Microsoft. |
| 21:35.59 | tensai | do the same for all the components and walk out with cash :) |
| 21:36.01 | jayce | yeah, my neighbor is a TAC manager... they only pay about 50 to sell the license, but cant sell the media.. |
| 21:36.47 | brailsmt_work | my favorite repsonse was this q: "How much can you take off if I don't want windows?" a: "You don't want '98, even Microsoft is going to stop supporting it" |
| 21:36.54 | brailsmt_work | :) |
| 21:36.55 | Bradipo | It's not that I hate Windows so much as I hate that there are no other viable alternatives for your common home user. |
| 21:37.04 | jayce | yeah |
| 21:37.39 | Bradipo | I want to use what I want to use, and not what some corporate dictates I use. |
| 21:37.45 | jayce | I had a fun one when swapping my mobo the other day (it died bad)... took it in to get the swap, first question the tech asked.... "What version of windows are you running"... |
| 21:37.46 | Bradipo | corporation. |
| 21:37.52 | jayce | of course I answered.... "None"... |
| 21:38.01 | jayce | got a seriously blank look on the guys face.. :) |
| 21:38.48 | brailsmt_work | my other favorite dumb computer salesman remark was, q: "I don't need a big video card, sound card, etc... I just want lots of memory and cache for faster compiling" a: "Is compiling a fun game?" |
| 21:38.52 | brailsmt_work | i walked out... |
| 21:39.39 | jayce | LOL! |
| 21:39.39 | brailsmt_work | that was PC Laptops |
| 21:39.39 | brailsmt_work | ;) |
| 21:39.39 | jayce | ouch :) |
| 21:39.53 | jayce | so did anybody else look at those benchmarks that guy at nasa did with the g4, g5 and p4? |
| 21:41.49 | *** join/#utah geekpimp (~geekpimp@dsl-212-23-23-232.zen.co.uk) |
| 21:45.01 | neybar | yeah I went to pc laptops. I took a copy of knoppix with me to test their laptops. It took me like 5 minutes to convince the salesman that I wasn't going to try and infect their laptop with a virus or anything. Eventually I just said that if he didn't let me try to see if linux would run on their computer I was leaving. It turns out knoppix didn't run on the model I was testing anyway. |
| 21:47.46 | brailsmt_work | ooh, good idea |
| 22:46.09 | *** mode/#Utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 23:12.13 | *** join/#utah hans (~fugalh@128.187.242.99) |
| 23:12.35 | hans | ok, bzflag veterans - i need a good world file |