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| 01:42.26 | hans | wow. linux really is spreading |
| 01:42.48 | Jayce^ | oh? |
| 01:42.52 | hans | new eq presidency (they kept me, the secretary around), and 2 out of the 3 are linux-competent |
| 01:42.53 | Jayce^ | something new happen? |
| 01:42.58 | Jayce^ | nice |
| 01:43.44 | hans | one astrophysics major and the other business (and he's from Ecuador) |
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| 04:51.18 | Bradipo | Hello? |
| 04:53.15 | Jayce^ | yo |
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| 14:35.35 | rama | elg: why District Webmaster? |
| 14:37.04 | elg | one of the habitual cross-posters |
| 14:37.32 | elg | iirc |
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| 14:38.21 | elg | i don't mind it so much - but only when there's a good reason. ie if the problem really is urgent and they really have read the docs and you don't know which list more likely has someone who knows the answer |
| 14:39.14 | elg | i have cross-posted in such circumstances. usually only one list takes off, the other just sits there like a bump on a log |
| 14:39.20 | rama | ahhh...I understand. Guess I never paid attention. I'm only on PLUGlist, so I don't get the ULUG posts |
| 14:39.26 | rama | sorry UUG |
| 14:40.00 | elg | the real irritation of course is when replies to cross posts also get cross-posted and things on one list are out-of-context |
| 14:40.44 | rama | makes sense... |
| 14:41.12 | rama | I've never had reason to cross-post unless its to a list that more than likely noone on either list is a part of the other. |
| 14:43.35 | elg | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:46.40 | rama | hehe...just reading that as you typed it...lol |
| 14:48.05 | elg | good thing I'm in a basement |
| 14:54.57 | elg | Microsoft Awarded Homeland Security Contract |
| 14:55.01 | elg | or is that homeland insecurity? |
| 14:55.52 | rama | In other words, Microsoft sent it's Executives to talk with Tom Ridge, probably even paying the government themselves to get the government to use M$ |
| 14:56.08 | rama | Wonder if Mr. Ridge has a new car now |
| 14:58.26 | rama | If you noticed, what's his name (President of M$) just sold a bunch of his shares...wonder if that is what he's using the money for |
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| 16:10.03 | elg | have I ever mentioned I love OMD? |
| 16:10.24 | levi | Heh. |
| 16:10.44 | levi | Did you go to the concert the OMD dude was at a couple years ago? |
| 16:10.56 | levi | OMD, Berlin, Real Life, etc. |
| 16:11.09 | elg | no |
| 16:11.19 | brailsmt | i hate OMD... |
| 16:11.23 | levi | Was supposed to be Synthstock, but ended up being 80's nostalgiafest. |
| 16:11.57 | brailsmt | my sister forced me to listen to OMD all the way to San Diego a long time ago... I hated that road trip... |
| 16:12.58 | rama | I like OMD, but not an avid, hard-core fan |
| 16:13.12 | brailsmt | and btw, I bet the SCO lawsuit played into the gov'ts decision to award linux the contract |
| 16:13.23 | brailsmt | who has deeper pockets than the gov't? |
| 16:13.37 | brailsmt | so the gov't would become SCO's #1 target... |
| 16:13.39 | levi | I like OMD, too, but don't listen to them a whole lot. |
| 16:13.57 | brailsmt | that was back in '93, the OMD road trip that is |
| 16:14.22 | brailsmt | s/linux/MS |
| 16:14.30 | brailsmt | that was a big typo... sheesh... |
| 16:15.09 | elg | what port does bzflag server listen on? |
| 16:15.59 | brailsmt | i find it strange I can't concentrate if I listen to music on normal speakers, but i concentrate better when I listen on headphones... odd |
| 16:16.09 | brailsmt | to the same music |
| 16:17.01 | levi | I love SomaFM |
| 16:17.21 | brailsmt | groove salad and drone zone are my favorites, good music for working |
| 16:17.27 | levi | I mostly listen to Secret Agent and Indie Pop Rocks, but Groove Salad is good. |
| 16:17.50 | brailsmt | i have a list of music from the playlists that I want to buy |
| 16:18.22 | brailsmt | so long as they stay away from yanni, john tesh, etc... I think i will keep liking them... |
| 16:18.26 | brailsmt | :) |
| 16:19.40 | levi | Heh, I don't think you have anything to worry about there. |
| 16:19.49 | brailsmt | me neither... |
| 16:20.04 | brailsmt | how scary is it that my dad likes this kind of music too? |
| 16:20.14 | brailsmt | i am getting old |
| 16:20.17 | brailsmt | :D |
| 16:20.47 | levi | Your dad likes Groove Salad? |
| 16:20.56 | brailsmt | well part of it is that this music a lot better then having my kids listen to me listen to eminem or snoop dog or linkin park, etc... |
| 16:21.45 | brailsmt | he likes music like that, he is a huge new age/ambient music fan... |
| 16:22.28 | brailsmt | he used to be really big into classical music then he started listening to the new age stuff and really likes it... |
| 16:22.34 | levi | Groove Salad is not really new age or ambient. Drone Zone is definitely ambient, though. |
| 16:23.06 | elg | anyone got a minute to try out the bzflag server on phantom.byu.edu ? |
| 16:23.40 | brailsmt | i think it is, at least i would classify it like that... some of the stuff he would *not* like but I bet that if i sent him a CD with some of the songs from groove salad he would go buy the artists album |
| 16:23.43 | levi | Well, I suppose some of Groove Salad could be considered ambient, but not in the original sense. |
| 16:24.02 | levi | Not in the "Music For Airports" sense, at least. |
| 16:25.16 | levi | Do you listen to Beat Blender at all? |
| 16:34.23 | brailsmt | no |
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| 17:02.11 | Bradipo | Does Opera support java? |
| 17:02.24 | jayce | yeah |
| 17:06.55 | brailsmt | sounds like groove salad is having a tough day... |
| 17:07.08 | brailsmt | skipping all over the place... |
| 17:08.32 | brailsmt | ruby rocks :) |
| 17:09.00 | elg | i don't see the correlation ;-) |
| 17:09.18 | brailsmt | between what? |
| 17:09.27 | brailsmt | groove salad and ruby? thats easy |
| 17:09.39 | brailsmt | i am listening to groove salad while programming ruby |
| 17:11.12 | jayce | Americas Army, and RTCW:ET |
| 17:11.18 | jayce | both run great in linux |
| 17:11.29 | levi | Groove Salad wasn't skipping for me. Must be some network problems. |
| 17:13.34 | brailsmt | i started after you stopped listening to it... |
| 17:13.35 | brailsmt | :) |
| 17:16.37 | levi | You should try Indiepop Rocks or Secret Agent. |
| 17:16.57 | Bradipo | Hmm, looks like Opera doesn't have Java |
| 17:17.02 | Bradipo | Or I haven't figured out how to enable it. |
| 17:18.09 | levi | Well, you have to use the java plugin. |
| 17:18.30 | Bradipo | Ahh. |
| 17:18.33 | Bradipo | Where do I get that? |
| 17:18.48 | levi | From Sun |
| 17:19.15 | levi | You don't use Java in Mozilla? That uses the plugin, too. |
| 17:19.28 | Bradipo | I don't use mozilla. |
| 17:19.37 | Bradipo | Or rather, don't have it. |
| 17:19.58 | Bradipo | I hate Java, by the way. |
| 17:20.30 | Bradipo | lol |
| 17:21.11 | levi | Well, if you use Java for anything, you should definitely use the latest Java from Sun. |
| 17:21.26 | neybar | you hate using java or programming it... or both :-) |
| 17:21.31 | levi | I think Netscape 4 is the only Linux browser that includes Java, and that Java is horribly broken and prone to crash your browser. |
| 17:21.36 | Bradipo | I hate applications written in Java. |
| 17:21.41 | Bradipo | Yeah, it is. |
| 17:22.07 | neybar | but java is so hip! you are never going to get noticed by hip bosses now... |
| 17:22.16 | Bradipo | I don't care about bosses. |
| 17:22.25 | Bradipo | I want to be able to run applications without it crashing all the time. |
| 17:22.32 | brailsmt | i don't like secret agent, i haven't listened to indie pop rocks |
| 17:22.40 | Bradipo | Tcl/Tk is much better for embedded web applications. |
| 17:22.45 | Bradipo | And it's not different than Java. |
| 17:22.48 | Bradipo | You have to install a plugin. |
| 17:22.59 | Bradipo | But at least it doesn't crash your browser, and it always works properly on any platform. |
| 17:23.03 | Bradipo | Unlike Java. |
| 17:23.05 | elg | hmm. i can't decide which is uglier, java or tk |
| 17:23.07 | neybar | seriously |
| 17:23.15 | Bradipo | They're both ugly. |
| 17:23.17 | Bradipo | Seriously. |
| 17:23.25 | Bradipo | But at least Tk is functional. |
| 17:23.37 | jayce | true.. |
| 17:23.37 | brailsmt | i can't decide which is uglier, asm or perl... |
| 17:23.38 | Bradipo | Java applets barely works on any platform |
| 17:23.38 | elg | yup. i kinda like the way tk does highlighting too. |
| 17:23.39 | brailsmt | :) |
| 17:23.41 | neybar | and not bloated |
| 17:23.45 | jayce | and even tk is faster than java.. |
| 17:23.53 | jayce | perl is beautiful.. |
| 17:24.00 | Bradipo | Well, write it in perl/tk then. :-) |
| 17:24.02 | brailsmt | for the blind |
| 17:24.10 | jayce | perl/Qt |
| 17:24.11 | jayce | :) |
| 17:24.12 | Bradipo | I don't care, as long as it can be embedded in the web browser and not crash it. |
| 17:24.14 | brailsmt | ruby'tk is the way to go |
| 17:24.16 | levi | Java is both functional and less ugly than tk. If you're judging Java on the poor Java support of Netscape 4, you're way off-base. |
| 17:24.38 | Bradipo | I'm judging it based on my experience with Java and any web browser. |
| 17:24.46 | neybar | no I base it on every single java app I have ever run, including those that aren't web apps |
| 17:24.57 | Bradipo | It's much harder to install Java on any platform than it is to install the Tcl/Tk libraries and plugin. |
| 17:24.57 | brailsmt | though FXRuby is definatley the best scripting language/gui toolkit marriage i have seen |
| 17:24.59 | levi | Netscape 4 is a buggy, nasty piece of crap that's nearly completely worthless. I hate it and I wish it would disappear. |
| 17:25.23 | elg | levi: i base my ugliness statement on swing (awt is even worse). |
| 17:25.29 | Bradipo | Unfortunately, it is the only web browser that is halfway decent on alternative systems. |
| 17:25.34 | Bradipo | I agree that Netscape sucks. |
| 17:25.46 | Bradipo | But it is the only one that really works good. |
| 17:25.46 | neybar | I don't think that was ever in question though |
| 17:25.59 | Bradipo | Mozilla is getting more and more bloated. |
| 17:26.01 | levi | Bradipo: Really works good?! |
| 17:26.09 | Bradipo | And Java integration with it sucks. |
| 17:26.15 | Bradipo | Same with Opera. |
| 17:26.28 | brailsmt | i disagree that java sucks, i do agree that java is going to be an increasingly hardre sell with scripting languages that offer write once, interpret anywhere fuinctionality with the same level of performance |
| 17:26.29 | Bradipo | I sure wish Microsoft would port Internet Explorer to *nix. :-) |
| 17:26.31 | levi | Mozilla works well. It renders properly. Java integration works pretty much perfectly. |
| 17:26.44 | neybar | lol, yeah I tried a few java plugins with mozilla, it always crashes my browser. I got rid of the java plugin and haven't missed |
| 17:26.47 | levi | Opera also renders things well, and Java integrates with it just fine too. |
| 17:26.50 | Bradipo | levi: ever tried to use it with e*trade? |
| 17:26.52 | jayce | long live parrot |
| 17:27.05 | levi | Bradipo: Use what with e*trade? |
| 17:27.06 | Bradipo | Or any financial brokerage for that matter? |
| 17:27.10 | brailsmt | :) |
| 17:27.10 | Bradipo | MOzilla, java. |
| 17:27.35 | levi | No, I haven't. |
| 17:27.38 | Bradipo | I have two friends here both using Debian and they are unable to use it with Mozilla and Java. |
| 17:27.45 | brailsmt | my wife like to set it at 60 |
| 17:27.51 | brailsmt | :| |
| 17:27.55 | Bradipo | I use OpenBSD and have the same issues. |
| 17:27.56 | neybar | that is nice, but expensive |
| 17:28.07 | levi | Is this something I'd have to have an account there to test out? |
| 17:28.28 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 17:28.47 | Bradipo | I can show you sometime... :-) |
| 17:28.57 | Bradipo | Where can I find the plugin by the way? |
| 17:29.04 | Bradipo | I'm searching java.sun.com but their search sucks. |
| 17:29.17 | levi | I haven't downloaded it myself in a very long time. |
| 17:29.24 | Bradipo | http://java.sun.com/products/plugin/ <=== thanks to google. |
| 17:30.34 | Bradipo | modelines are cool. |
| 17:31.08 | brailsmt | i just threw one on the end of a debug output code, and now the lines don't wrap :) |
| 17:31.12 | jayce | so Bradipo, out of all your people there at sco, how many use sco linux vs other distro's/unix flavors? |
| 17:32.38 | Bradipo | Well, most people use Windows on their desktop. |
| 17:32.48 | Bradipo | Even most of IT uses Windows on their desktop. |
| 17:32.57 | jayce | that's pretty sad |
| 17:33.11 | Bradipo | There are just three of us in IT that use *nix and I'm the only one that uses *nix exclusively. |
| 17:33.15 | levi | That's reality in the corporate world. |
| 17:33.25 | Bradipo | Yep. |
| 17:33.30 | Bradipo | Kind of lame. |
| 17:33.36 | levi | Indeed. |
| 17:33.41 | Bradipo | But this is why *nix will never be accepted on the desktop. |
| 17:33.54 | Bradipo | Because the companies developing them will not make them a viable solution on the desktop. |
| 17:34.00 | Bradipo | And no applications. |
| 17:34.21 | jayce | ditto |
| 17:34.38 | Bradipo | Ok... |
| 17:34.46 | levi | Pretty much only the software engineers here use Linux, and even them some of them have a second computer running Windows. |
| 17:35.01 | Bradipo | And what software are they developing? |
| 17:35.16 | Bradipo | I'm talking about having a corporate standard of *nix on the desktop. |
| 17:35.21 | levi | Linux cluster management software. |
| 17:35.24 | Bradipo | Unless you are a development firm, this isn't going to happen. |
| 17:35.47 | Bradipo | Not even within our own organization could I convince people that it would be a good idea to run *nix on the desktop. |
| 17:35.51 | Bradipo | Believe me, we have tried. |
| 17:35.53 | brailsmt | that assumes that only corporations can make *nix viable for the desktop |
| 17:36.07 | Bradipo | Only corporations will make it widespread. |
| 17:36.21 | levi | Well, people in general want to run at home what they run at work. |
| 17:36.21 | brailsmt | advocacy will make it grow |
| 17:36.40 | Bradipo | What I mean is that if I go from one job to the next, the likelyhood of me finding Linux in use on the desktop is next to nil. |
| 17:36.45 | levi | Thus the prevalence of DOS and Windows at home now, when initially Apple had the whole home market. |
| 17:37.07 | Bradipo | And it will remain that way until the applications are there. |
| 17:37.16 | Bradipo | I'm not talking about web browsers and email clients either. |
| 17:37.35 | Bradipo | I'm talking about financial software, management software, project software, crm software, etc... |
| 17:37.51 | Bradipo | For example, what solution is there for someone that wants to use Microsoft Project? |
| 17:37.59 | brailsmt | automake |
| 17:38.00 | brailsmt | :) |
| 17:38.04 | Bradipo | lol |
| 17:38.09 | levi | Heh. |
| 17:38.17 | jayce | mr project is getting quite good |
| 17:38.17 | brailsmt | so there :) |
| 17:38.44 | jayce | there are some others, but I haven't played with them |
| 17:38.54 | levi | Like most MS knock-offs, Mr Project looks the same but has a fraction of the features, as far as I've seen. |
| 17:39.06 | brailsmt | i see your point, but *nix on the desktop is not a hopeless dream |
| 17:39.08 | jayce | but has only been around a fraction of the time too.. |
| 17:39.17 | neybar | now if you could just convince MS that it won't hurt them to make the web piece to Project work on browsers other then IE... |
| 17:39.44 | jayce | heck, not even just IE, only ie on windows (and recent ones at that) |
| 17:39.54 | levi | The web portions of all of their software are horrible nasty things. |
| 17:40.06 | levi | HTML export from Word... *shudder* |
| 17:40.22 | jayce | eww |
| 17:40.28 | brailsmt | html from frontpage... horrid |
| 17:40.54 | brailsmt | html from me... worse |
| 17:40.56 | brailsmt | :) |
| 17:41.08 | neybar | speaking of which, does anyone know of a good way to export doc files to plain text without having to open up word/openoffice/other office product? |
| 17:41.33 | brailsmt | i used to use a commandline program, but I forgot the name... |
| 17:42.12 | brailsmt | iirc, abiword uses a program to convert which also has a commandline interface |
| 17:42.21 | neybar | I scoured google/sourceforge last night but didn't hit on the right combination of key words. |
| 17:44.48 | elg | neyabr |
| 17:44.52 | elg | neybar: http://download.sourceforge.net/wvware/ |
| 17:46.14 | neybar | sweet. thanks |
| 17:48.27 | brailsmt | thats it |
| 17:50.30 | rama | you guys are talking to fast - I need to catch up. |
| 17:50.58 | jayce | ok, just for you rama... I ' l l t y p e s l o w l y .. |
| 17:51.01 | jayce | :) |
| 17:51.20 | rama | (at least entirely) |
| 17:51.27 | rama | it's getting there, though |
| 17:51.47 | jayce | actually, think about what most companies need, many companies, *most* people dont' need windows, and would actually do better with the control/lockdown you can do with linux, they just don't understand that.. |
| 17:51.54 | rama | I may be able to finally convert our Win2k SBS to Linux because of the OpenGroupware project |
| 17:52.44 | rama | jayce: I agree - there are many optional solutions out there to accomplish tasks that companies are already doing in Windows. |
| 17:52.45 | brailsmt | sweet, according to sloccount this directory I am working on is worth 1/2 a million dollars :) |
| 17:52.56 | rama | For a new company, Linux would be a viable option |
| 17:53.15 | jayce | brailsmt ?? |
| 17:53.37 | rama | But for those that were stuck in Windows lala land, it costs a lot of time and money to switch all the way over to Linux at once |
| 17:54.06 | jayce | all at once is always difficult for any system.. |
| 17:54.11 | rama | And for those switching from Linux to Windows (like ODF), they're just plain crazy |
| 17:54.12 | jayce | too many things to go wrong |
| 17:54.13 | brailsmt | get sloccount and run it on a directory of source files... |
| 17:54.35 | brailsmt | it will count source lines and give you an estimate of cost to develop and stuff |
| 17:54.43 | jayce | interesting.. |
| 17:55.24 | rama | I think the web and intranets are an excellent way of allowing portability into a company |
| 17:55.49 | rama | M$ Access just has too many limitations!!! |
| 17:56.15 | brailsmt | rama: you are obivously not an MS access power user |
| 17:56.16 | brailsmt | ;) |
| 17:56.54 | rama | I was integrated into a company who's previous programmer knew only Access. I am currently slowly moving us over to Perl, and if I can do the right convincing, Linux as well |
| 17:57.48 | rama | If I can find a spare server, I'm going to start setting up OpenGroupware, PostGres, LDAP, etc. so that we can at least begin to convert our server to Linux |
| 17:58.35 | rama | As for Linux on the desktop, that may take a bit longer, but at least I'll have a starting place |
| 17:59.05 | rama | In my spare time at home I'm thinking of creating a company intranet that does essentially what our M$ Access client does. |
| 17:59.20 | jayce | I think that places like call centers are where the next big corporate inroads on linux could very well be.. |
| 17:59.29 | jayce | they are always looking for ways to lock down kiosks.. |
| 18:00.00 | rama | jayce: I also read an article I think in Businessweek about POS and Cash Registers being a huge inroad to Linux |
| 18:00.14 | rama | Hilton uses Linux on their cash registers. So does Papa Johns |
| 18:04.14 | brailsmt | i think i like papa johns pizza more now |
| 18:04.27 | brailsmt | s/i think // |
| 18:04.52 | rama | They have always been able to pull up more information on past purchases than Dominoes has...Long story on that one... |
| 18:05.06 | rama | needless to say I don't order from Dominoes any more |
| 18:06.30 | rama | Going back to the Java topic, I had a (very slow) Java program that I use to stream files off my ReplayTV. Whenever I closed down the program, my computer shutoff and rebooted. A little scary that Java allows that if you ask me... |
| 18:07.12 | rama | They've fixed it in the latest release of Java, but from what I was reading, it was around for quite awhile |
| 18:07.14 | jayce | did everyone look at that new 'telly' system? |
| 18:07.26 | rama | telly? |
| 18:07.56 | rama | My daughter likes Telly on Sesame Street |
| 18:08.02 | jayce | was on /. last night |
| 18:08.31 | rama | Don't remember that one from my daily headlines |
| 18:09.02 | rama | oh - the PVR?? |
| 18:09.08 | rama | Yes - I like |
| 18:09.47 | jayce | http://interact-tv.com/products.php |
| 18:09.55 | rama | very expandable and hackable |
| 18:10.52 | rama | http://interact-tv.com/expand.php - I like how they encourage hacking... |
| 18:10.54 | jayce | question for the vim boys... how do I switch between frames without having to move my hands from my home keys (eg: the correct vim way) |
| 18:13.36 | rama | I know ctrl-w-w does it, but that doesn't seem true to vim |
| 18:13.54 | jayce | yeah |
| 18:14.14 | jayce | especially when I want more direction |
| 18:14.42 | brailsmt | easy |
| 18:14.48 | brailsmt | use a mapping |
| 18:14.50 | brailsmt | i do |
| 18:15.08 | brailsmt | actually the mapping came with minibufexpl.vim plugin |
| 18:15.26 | brailsmt | it maps control-[hjkl] to control-w [hjkl] |
| 18:15.37 | jayce | ooohh... I need that one.. |
| 18:15.44 | brailsmt | very slick |
| 18:15.45 | jayce | that's just what I would want.. |
| 18:15.52 | brailsmt | and minibufexpl.vim is very nice too |
| 18:16.12 | jayce | what's it do? |
| 18:16.31 | brailsmt | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:16.32 | brailsmt | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:16.32 | brailsmt | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:16.32 | brailsmt | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:16.39 | brailsmt | those are the keymappings... |
| 18:17.44 | brailsmt | it uses a line at the top of the vim window to list all the open buffers and you can easily switch between the buffers by going to the top window (witht he listing of buiffers) and hitting enter with the cursor on the buffer you want to have open in the window... |
| 18:17.56 | brailsmt | very slick buffer manager program |
| 18:18.06 | brailsmt | all my vim screenshots show it in use |
| 18:18.39 | brailsmt | like this one: http://brailsmt.homelinux.org/img/midnight2.png |
| 18:18.44 | jayce | I've been using Project (project.tar.gz on sf.net) I love it.. |
| 18:19.32 | brailsmt | though that screenshot is an older version of the plugin |
| 18:21.04 | rama | jayce: any url for that? I get a million results when I search for project |
| 18:23.01 | brailsmt | http://brailsmt.homelinux.org/img/midnight2_7-16-03.png <-- that is what I am working on at the moment, and it shows the most current minibufexpl.vim plugin |
| 18:23.55 | brailsmt | of all things that I have found at vim.sf.net, minibufexpl.vim is the by far the best |
| 18:28.58 | jayce | this works good for me now, since I use win-[hjkl] for navigating my desktops |
| 18:29.17 | brailsmt | i use control-alt-[hjkl] :) |
| 18:29.30 | brailsmt | and alt-[hjkl] to move my mouse pointer :) |
| 18:29.53 | jayce | I used to do that(c-a) but I like just actually having a use for that stupid key |
| 18:30.01 | brailsmt | whoa this gorrve salad song sounds like madonna |
| 18:30.11 | jayce | http://vim.sourceforge.net/scripts/script.php?script_id=69 |
| 18:30.20 | jayce | http://members.localnet.com/~ablumer/project.gif |
| 18:30.23 | brailsmt | i have the win keys mapped to caps lock :) |
| 18:30.33 | brailsmt | and i have my caps lock mapped to escape :) |
| 18:30.36 | jayce | I keep meaning to map caps to esc |
| 18:30.59 | brailsmt | i have a ready made .xmodmap file if you want to give it a try... |
| 18:31.21 | brailsmt | it may not work with your kbd, but you could try it anyway, if you wanted... |
| 18:31.48 | jayce | sure. |
| 18:32.23 | brailsmt | email or dcc? |
| 18:32.44 | brailsmt | i have a dvorak .xmodmap with caps mapped to esc too ;) |
| 18:32.57 | jayce | email (jayce@lug-nut.com) |
| 18:39.11 | brailsmt | there you go |
| 18:40.37 | elg | for the record, the c-w prefix opens many doors to fabulous window commands. i do like the c-[hjkl] shortcut though |
| 18:40.49 | elg | :he index (scroll down to the c-w stuff) |
| 18:41.03 | brailsmt | i have never used c-w<something> i find it cumbersome |
| 18:41.15 | elg | not as cumbersome as going to the mouse |
| 18:41.29 | elg | and really not bad if you map caps to ctrl like you should ;-) |
| 18:41.32 | brailsmt | i do sometimes use c-w[HJKL] though, so i guess i do use it sometimes... |
| 18:41.46 | elg | c-w c will close the window you're in |
| 18:41.46 | brailsmt | i map caps to esc |
| 18:41.52 | brailsmt | so will :q |
| 18:42.17 | elg | brailsmt: I like to use capsctrl to do c-[ (which is escape in vim) |
| 18:42.31 | elg | and the control is useful outside of vim |
| 18:43.06 | brailsmt | i like caps as esc |
| 18:43.08 | brailsmt | :) |
| 18:44.06 | brailsmt | and i have been using it for about 2 years now |
| 18:45.24 | elg | cool. I got into the whole capsctrl thing when I was at caedm using one of those HP-UX keyboards. there, ctrl really is where caps is. |
| 19:10.51 | brailsmt | same for solaris kdbs |
| 19:11.28 | brailsmt | jayce: either of those .xmodmap files work? |
| 19:13.58 | jayce | haven't had a chance to try |
| 19:15.36 | rama | lol - this site wants to sign up for our affiliate program: |
| 19:15.39 | rama | http://sandramargot.100megsfree5.com/index.html |
| 19:32.39 | *** join/#utah Mecworks (~Marc@151.155.126.173) |
| 19:40.01 | rama | I hate affiliates who bid against our own copyrights on search engines - it's like our own sales people competing against our business with their own business |
| 19:40.40 | brailsmt | i hate it when I can chat on IRC, but can't visit any websites, nor ping them... |
| 19:40.50 | jayce | ?? proxy? |
| 19:40.54 | rama | cool... |
| 19:41.04 | brailsmt | nope, not proxy |
| 19:41.07 | rama | firewall? |
| 19:41.09 | brailsmt | s/not/no |
| 19:41.54 | brailsmt | yeah, but it worked just a few minutes ago, then it stopped... the firewall is my own, and it has run flawlessly for about six month to a year |
| 19:42.28 | rama | do you need to restart iptables or network or something? |
| 19:42.30 | brailsmt | anyone else having a hard time with ATT ATM? |
| 19:42.37 | jayce | no att |
| 19:49.33 | rama | we lost him completely... |
| 19:54.40 | rama | Any e-macs users that can tell me what Jonathan's message means? |
| 19:55.00 | jayce | rama, emacs features he thinks only emacs has.. |
| 19:55.23 | rama | that's what I thought - figured I'd wait until someone who used e-macs and vim replied |
| 19:55.46 | rama | my last boss used it, but we just made fun of him |
| 19:57.10 | *** join/#utah wdo (~matt@w172.z067104095.slc-ut.dsl.cnc.net) |
| 19:57.16 | rama | They thought they could do what we were doing w/ Windows |
| 19:57.57 | wdo | Anybody know if the GIFs are "okay" now? |
| 19:57.59 | rama | which they probably could, but I can't imagine how much money they spent doing it |
| 19:58.11 | rama | wdo: I was wondering that myself |
| 19:58.53 | wdo | rama: The wordage on their site says that it is no longer enforcable .. except in countries where the patent still holds .. But, I am a skeptic. |
| 19:59.37 | rama | I've always used gifs. Never really had money worth them suing me for, though. |
| 20:00.34 | wdo | er .. the main reason I ask is because I could never get the "gif" plugin to work in GIMP for windoze ... :-/ |
| 20:02.24 | rama | ahh...I think I got it to work not too long ago. The problem I had was with eps files...but that's a different issue |
| 20:09.05 | *** join/#utah brailsmt (~michael@12-254-250-249.client.attbi.com) |
| 20:10.05 | jayce | brailsmt, you going to reply to the emacs list on plug? |
| 20:10.31 | rama | jayce beat me to the question... |
| 20:11.58 | brailsmt | i am not on plug |
| 20:12.21 | brailsmt | i guess i should be since it appears i just missed a juicy flamebait |
| 20:12.57 | jayce | oh yeah.. |
| 20:13.08 | brailsmt | can you forward it to me? |
| 20:13.24 | jayce | Jesse Stay wrote: |
| 20:13.24 | jayce | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:13.24 | jayce | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:13.24 | jayce | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:13.25 | jayce | M-x make/manual-page/gdb/... |
| 20:13.27 | jayce | gnuserv-start |
| 20:13.29 | jayce | start-keyboard-macro |
| 20:13.31 | jayce | isearch-forward-regexp |
| 20:13.33 | jayce | registers |
| 20:13.35 | jayce | kill ring |
| 20:13.39 | jayce | and of course, |
| 20:13.41 | jayce | M-x doctor :) |
| 20:13.47 | jayce | -Jonathan |
| 20:14.02 | brailsmt | i don't get it... what is all that crap? |
| 20:14.08 | brailsmt | emacs idea of usability? |
| 20:14.16 | jayce | features in emacs that he doesn't think are in vim... |
| 20:14.23 | rama | I don't know enough to keep up my end of the flame... |
| 20:14.25 | jayce | i know some of them are, others I dont' know wtf they are |
| 20:14.27 | brailsmt | some aren't... like gdb |
| 20:14.42 | brailsmt | gnuserv-start? |
| 20:14.48 | jayce | no clue |
| 20:15.13 | brailsmt | start-keyboard-macro? you have to type that to use a kbd macro, or just define one? |
| 20:15.24 | brailsmt | registers is laughable |
| 20:15.28 | brailsmt | kill ring? |
| 20:15.35 | brailsmt | M-x doctor? |
| 20:17.14 | rama | I think Jonathan is against everything I believe in... |
| 20:17.26 | rama | I can't think of anything he's agreed with me on... |
| 20:17.29 | brailsmt | wtf is M-x doctor? |
| 20:17.46 | jayce | heals your hands after bending them out of shape to hit meta keys |
| 20:17.48 | jayce | :) |
| 20:18.09 | brailsmt | i guess, do you actually have to type all of that to access those features?!? |
| 20:18.26 | jayce | no clue |
| 20:18.29 | levi | You can type them all out, or you can bind them to keys of your choosing. |
| 20:18.36 | brailsmt | if so, it is insane |
| 20:18.44 | jayce | levi, can you explain some of those that we aren't familiar wiht? |
| 20:18.47 | brailsmt | levi: wtf is M-x doctor? |
| 20:18.57 | brailsmt | or gnuserv-start? |
| 20:18.59 | levi | Oh, I don't know what they do. I'm not that up on my emacs. |
| 20:19.03 | jayce | k |
| 20:19.20 | brailsmt | o would visit #emacs if it didn't make me feel infected... |
| 20:19.20 | brailsmt | :) |
| 20:19.21 | levi | It's just that EVERYTHING in emacs has a long name that you can get to with M-x long-name |
| 20:19.31 | levi | It's just that most of them are also bound to keys. |
| 20:20.06 | brailsmt | kill ring? isearch-foreward-regexp? and of course "M-x doctor"? |
| 20:20.08 | brailsmt | :) |
| 20:20.11 | rama | seems to me that E-macs ~~wants~~ to be like vim by binding shortcuts to keys |
| 20:20.29 | levi | No, that's just the way emacs has always been. |
| 20:20.51 | rama | Then back to my original question - why emulate vim when you can use it? |
| 20:21.16 | levi | Because you like parts of both, but prefer emacs? |
| 20:21.28 | levi | I don't see the reason for the fuss, really. |
| 20:22.37 | rama | Dan started it... ;-) |
| 20:22.47 | brailsmt | why let someone continue to suffer when there is relief available? and only through ignorance does this poor soul suffer |
| 20:22.52 | levi | emacs is a really cool editor. I like it. I just prefer to use vim. |
| 20:23.32 | jayce | I've never been able to enjoy or get used to emacs... and have been happy in vim |
| 20:23.42 | Bradipo | I used to enjoy emacs. |
| 20:23.44 | jayce | and I'm definately not a power user of either.. |
| 20:23.48 | Bradipo | When I first started using Unix. |
| 20:23.55 | Bradipo | I couldn't ever understand vi. |
| 20:24.03 | Bradipo | Then one day I took the time to learn it. |
| 20:24.40 | levi | Well, of course you couldn't ever understand vi until you took the time to learn it. |
| 20:24.59 | brailsmt | i would classify myself a vim power user... |
| 20:25.00 | levi | That's the nature of vi. |
| 20:25.06 | brailsmt | ;) |
| 20:25.11 | jayce | that's the nature of either... |
| 20:25.24 | brailsmt | s/heads/head |
| 20:25.33 | levi | Well, you can get a bit farther in emacs without really learning it. |
| 20:25.34 | brailsmt | i want to clarify that I have *one* head :) |
| 20:25.46 | levi | Especially if you use xemacs or something. |
| 20:26.24 | jayce | first time I ever used emacs, i was told to type 'info <something>' couldn't get out, or navigate.. |
| 20:26.38 | jayce | of course, I'd only been playing with linux a few days at the time.. |
| 20:27.05 | brailsmt | i used emacs for a few weeks before using vim |
| 20:27.08 | levi | Anyway, since emacs has its whole guts exposed and programmable, it's pretty darn powerful. You can open network sockets, etc. |
| 20:27.27 | levi | You can also reprogram the functionality of the editor from within. |
| 20:27.54 | rama | emacs is easy to learn because it's based on the same libraries as bash, if I understand right |
| 20:27.54 | brailsmt | you can with vim as well if you use one of the available scripting language extentions... |
| 20:28.01 | rama | That's why my old boss used it |
| 20:28.14 | Bradipo | levi: I didn't have as hard a time learning emacs as I did vi. |
| 20:28.14 | levi | Well, the keybindings for bash are based on emacs. |
| 20:28.17 | Bradipo | vi is way more cryptic. |
| 20:28.22 | brailsmt | all of my scripts for vim are written in ruby |
| 20:28.33 | brailsmt | set-o vi |
| 20:28.36 | brailsmt | err... |
| 20:28.37 | Bradipo | I put forth very little effort to learn emacs and it seemed to come a lot more natrually. |
| 20:28.38 | brailsmt | set -o vi |
| 20:28.46 | levi | Since every function in emacs has a long name to it, you can learn a few commands that will help you look up the other ones. |
| 20:28.50 | brailsmt | what does M-x doctor do? |
| 20:28.54 | Bradipo | vi on the other hand required a lot more effort to learn than emacs. |
| 20:29.11 | jayce | I had trouble with vim at first, from the cryptic/mode ideas, but then I caught on to how it made things easier (less hand movement, etc) and that made me start liking and wanting to understand more. |
| 20:29.14 | levi | And there are other commands that will tell you what keys are bound to the long names, so you can learn the shortcuts. |
| 20:29.15 | Bradipo | This is my own personal experience though. |
| 20:29.30 | Bradipo | Yeah, that's how I learned emacs so easily. |
| 20:29.43 | Bradipo | Now, I won't even touch emacs and wouldn't recommend it. |
| 20:29.45 | jayce | yeah, I taught a few people there at idi.. sad thing is I knew so little of it.. just the basics.. |
| 20:29.48 | Bradipo | But I can see why emacs users like it. |
| 20:29.53 | brailsmt | i learned vim by being in #vim :) |
| 20:30.11 | jayce | :help :) |
| 20:30.16 | rama | That's what got me started, though...after using it awhile I learned it was much more addictive than Homesite |
| 20:30.23 | jayce | yeah... |
| 20:30.33 | brailsmt | well, ":he <partial word>control-d" :) |
| 20:30.42 | jayce | even better |
| 20:30.43 | brailsmt | try it |
| 20:30.47 | brailsmt | its fun :) |
| 20:30.53 | rama | the intriguing thing about vim is there's always more to learn and expand on |
| 20:31.23 | jayce | the more you know, the more you realize you dont' know.. . but that goes for emacs too, and a lot of other FOSS stuff |
| 20:31.29 | jayce | which I love about all of them |
| 20:32.03 | levi | Thing is, emacs has been around forever. Probably half the things you love about vim did not exist in the original vi. The added features in vim make it more like emacs. |
| 20:32.08 | brailsmt | there is one person on earth that knows all of vim's commands, that person is Bram... no one uses all of vim's commands.. :) |
| 20:32.30 | brailsmt | i bet he does |
| 20:32.57 | brailsmt | but the point is to get an efficient working set of vim commands... |
| 20:33.27 | jayce | reminds me of the last perl conference I was at.. Damian Conway was presenting his SelfGOL script (an example of extreme obfuscation).. even larry and others were shocked when he was breaking it down.. |
| 20:34.11 | jayce | hehe |
| 20:34.48 | levi | perl sucks! ruby sucks! python is the one true language! |
| 20:34.56 | elg | ~lart python |
| 20:35.02 | brailsmt | don't get me going on python |
| 20:35.28 | jayce | ooh ooh.. and add php in with it.. |
| 20:35.36 | brailsmt | php is a *HACK* |
| 20:35.38 | brailsmt | ;) |
| 20:35.42 | jayce | barely that.. |
| 20:35.48 | elg | brailsmt: c'mon, python is so much better than those non-oo languages |
| 20:35.50 | jayce | php is the VB of the open source world.. |
| 20:35.54 | elg | like eiffel and ruby |
| 20:35.58 | elg | ;-) |
| 20:36.06 | brailsmt | this wm that I have been trying to work on has taught me far too much about python... |
| 20:36.08 | levi | Heh, eiffel. |
| 20:36.18 | elg | oh, almost forgot smalltalk |
| 20:36.26 | brailsmt | oohh, yeah python is psuedo OO at best |
| 20:36.50 | levi | CLOS is the one true programming system! |
| 20:36.56 | brailsmt | and this whitespace stuff... it is hyper annoying |
| 20:37.22 | brailsmt | def method(self): |
| 20:37.25 | brailsmt | argh... |
| 20:37.32 | brailsmt | crap... oh well... |
| 20:37.53 | jayce | ooh, pascals end; and end. |
| 20:37.58 | brailsmt | a little snippet of pythons "readable" whitespace mumbo jumbo |
| 20:38.06 | levi | Everyone should switch to Lisp. |
| 20:38.12 | brailsmt | def method(self): |
| 20:38.12 | brailsmt | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:38.12 | brailsmt | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:38.17 | brailsmt | dangit... |
| 20:38.22 | wdo | Assembly .. the only PURE language. |
| 20:38.28 | brailsmt | there was supposed to be some blank lines there... |
| 20:38.41 | wdo | MOV wdo,ax; |
| 20:38.45 | levi | Bah, asm. |
| 20:38.48 | jayce | lisp((()))? |
| 20:38.59 | wdo | JMPE 0x112A |
| 20:39.02 | levi | It's not the only pure language. |
| 20:39.06 | jayce | jnz ax |
| 20:39.18 | wdo | Hehe. |
| 20:39.27 | jayce | now, motorola's assembly, not x86 |
| 20:39.32 | elg | levi: I like lisp theoretically. I hate trying to code it though |
| 20:39.38 | brailsmt | is that bad to say that? |
| 20:39.46 | jayce | yes.. because it's perl :) |
| 20:39.46 | wdo | you're going to hell. |
| 20:39.54 | levi | brialsmt: Yup. That's blasphemy all right. |
| 20:39.55 | wdo | :-D |
| 20:40.05 | wdo | I haven't touched ruby... |
| 20:40.10 | jayce | actually, I have it straight from the first presidency that God answers prayers in portugues |
| 20:40.14 | levi | Scheme is a pretty pure language. |
| 20:40.22 | wdo | Scheme? |
| 20:40.23 | wdo | Uh .. |
| 20:40.31 | wdo | Isn't that OO? |
| 20:40.33 | rama | jayce: funny - I have the same that he answers prayers in Thai |
| 20:40.41 | wdo | elg: Ouch! Its HOT! |
| 20:41.02 | wdo | Oh yeah? Mine always come out in some funky Irish dialect ... |
| 20:41.22 | jayce | President Faust stated that after eyring made a statement about the beauty of praying in Spanish.. |
| 20:41.23 | levi | Scheme is not OO, it is a simplified Lisp. |
| 20:41.29 | elg | define pure |
| 20:41.45 | jayce | brainf*ck :) now there's a language |
| 20:42.12 | rama | wonder if God speaks Perl? |
| 20:42.18 | jayce | of course.. |
| 20:42.20 | levi | Well, probably 'Lisp' as a concept rather than any particular implementation is one of the most pure languages. |
| 20:42.56 | levi | It's syntactically and operationally very simple. |
| 20:43.20 | rama | thimple??? |
| 20:43.42 | rama | Thomas Jefferson had a lisp |
| 20:43.55 | wdo | Pure = Linear programming |
| 20:43.55 | levi | Basically the lambda calculus, which is a turing-equivalent theory of computation. |
| 20:43.56 | elg | simplicity is usually at the cost of verbosity |
| 20:44.21 | levi | wdo: What kind of a whacked definition of pure is that? |
| 20:44.36 | rama | Did I mention I love Dan Hanks? |
| 20:44.40 | jayce | oh sure levi, get all mathy and stuff on us... geez.. |
| 20:44.41 | rama | okay, not really |
| 20:44.45 | wdo | levi: I didn't get a chance to drop my ha-ha's .. :( |
| 20:45.07 | wdo | Pure programming is ansi c |
| 20:45.10 | rama | but he's a smart guy |
| 20:45.20 | jayce | yeah, very funny.. |
| 20:45.41 | levi | Well, ansi C is a fairly pure language when you compare it to something like C++ or Java, but it's still nowhere near Lisp. |
| 20:46.07 | levi | I'm not all that familiar with it, but I suspect Forth is a very pure/simple language too. |
| 20:46.22 | elg | levi: you're making me want to take more language theory classes again |
| 20:47.06 | elg | i've found another great use for screen: interactive fiction |
| 20:47.09 | levi | I'm making me want to take more CS classes. That's scary. |
| 20:47.28 | jayce | resist it levi... :p |
| 20:47.33 | elg | maybe I'll just go check out the dragon book instead |
| 20:47.47 | levi | Well, I do want to have a degree at some point. |
| 20:47.49 | elg | that reminds me, I need to write a review tonight |
| 20:47.58 | levi | Which would require taking more classes. |
| 20:48.05 | jayce | elg, which book? |
| 20:48.17 | elg | the classic compilers text |
| 20:48.32 | elg | http://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/d/DragonBook.html |
| 20:49.13 | jayce | that the one you are writing the review on? |
| 20:49.28 | wdo | Pure = no magic variables. |
| 20:49.36 | wdo | ;) |
| 20:49.39 | jayce | *magic* variables? |
| 20:50.14 | wdo | No type definitions, or bounds, or structures = impure |
| 20:50.46 | jayce | I enjoy my three types, scalars, lists, and hash's |
| 20:51.03 | levi | Uh, there's no way ANYONE can get away with calling perl pure. Useful, good, fun... these you could argue. Pure, no... no way. |
| 20:51.17 | wdo | Hahah |
| 20:51.33 | wdo | $val = scalar @array; |
| 20:51.41 | wdo | $val = 1; |
| 20:51.50 | wdo | $val = "Hi, I am a string"; |
| 20:51.50 | jayce | so you had one element in the array.. |
| 20:52.03 | wdo | Heheh. |
| 20:52.04 | wdo | no. |
| 20:52.07 | jayce | yeah, all works good.. |
| 20:52.18 | wdo | I just think its cool. |
| 20:52.19 | wdo | Thats all. |
| 20:52.29 | jayce | ah, yes |
| 20:52.30 | wdo | Thats the problem. |
| 20:52.36 | wdo | Is that it all does work like that. |
| 20:52.48 | jayce | yeah, it's nice... |
| 20:53.04 | wdo | Perl is great for RAD / POC. |
| 20:53.19 | wdo | The performance is pretty bad though. |
| 20:53.41 | jayce | actually, it's performance is quite good... sure bad coding can slow it down, but it compiles down great |
| 20:53.58 | wdo | so what are you saying? That I am a crappy perl coder? ;) |
| 20:54.17 | wdo | No, I had problems with threads and forks. |
| 20:54.30 | wdo | and portability. |
| 20:54.36 | wdo | GEEEEZ portability. |
| 20:54.44 | jayce | it's really surprising how fast perl acutally can be.. used to do a lot of things in C backends, but then benchmarked, and (obviously depending on each task) you could often come up with comprable results.. |
| 20:54.48 | wdo | But, that all behind me now .. |
| 20:55.09 | jayce | perl has java on portablilty big time.. .I love that.. |
| 20:55.16 | jayce | especially 5.8 |
| 20:55.23 | wdo | I wish there was a perl-encoder like (aghem) java that could compile it to bytecode so it wouldn't have to parse it every time. |
| 20:55.45 | jayce | perlcc |
| 20:55.46 | wdo | PHP has a bunch of progs that do that. |
| 20:55.52 | wdo | Yeah, I tried perlCC but it didn't like my program. |
| 20:56.19 | wdo | Does perlCC compile down to bytecode? I Thought it compiled a binary? |
| 20:56.22 | jayce | it can have trouble with certain things (bad libs, etc).. but usually it works.. |
| 20:56.28 | jayce | no, that's a pure c binary |
| 20:56.57 | jayce | of course, if you want speed in a web environment.. you gotta go mod_perl |
| 20:56.58 | rama | wdo: mono will probably do that |
| 20:57.03 | wdo | (Perlcc'ing a helo world) |
| 20:57.04 | jayce | parrot |
| 20:57.06 | rama | .net already does |
| 20:57.31 | wdo | Ah ha .. I wonder if I can "hack" mod_perl to write a "snapshot" of the pointer of memory of the pre-compiled perl to disk ... |
| 20:57.42 | wdo | That would be the equiv of bytecode ... |
| 20:57.48 | jayce | interesting idea... not sure.. |
| 20:58.02 | jayce | check the porters list.. |
| 20:58.14 | jayce | of course just looking into doing it with parrot/perl6 would be better.. |
| 20:58.24 | wdo | 48k for a hello world binary perlcc'd |
| 20:58.28 | wdo | thats actually not too bad. |
| 20:58.39 | wdo | strips down to 36k |
| 20:58.42 | wdo | hmm... |
| 20:58.46 | wdo | I will have to play with this a bit more. |
| 20:58.49 | jayce | yeah, you have some definite initial overhead coming from the perl.. |
| 20:59.20 | jayce | also, look at the PAR system.. you might really like that.. |
| 20:59.29 | jayce | packaged semi binarie.. |
| 20:59.30 | jayce | s |
| 20:59.35 | wdo | Par .. |
| 20:59.37 | jayce | just check cpan for PAR |
| 20:59.39 | wdo | OK |
| 20:59.47 | jayce | basically, kinda like a JAR but for perl.. |
| 21:00.03 | wdo | I will take a look. You ever program threads / forks? |
| 21:00.08 | jayce | yeah |
| 21:00.08 | wdo | (in perl) |
| 21:00.14 | jayce | to both |
| 21:00.27 | wdo | how well does perlcc compile them? |
| 21:00.32 | jayce | but not usually at the same time :) |
| 21:00.34 | wdo | or do I have to play with my race conditions. |
| 21:00.36 | wdo | HA! |
| 21:01.00 | jayce | I haven't perlcc'd them, but dont' think it wouldnt' work... |
| 21:01.23 | jayce | perlcc just takes advantage of the fact that perl is written in C, and you have the source :) makes it a little easier.. |
| 21:01.44 | jayce | in fact, until perl5 that's all the perl run process was, compiled it into a C binary |
| 21:04.21 | rama | jayce: have they added any of the PAR or PerlCC to the Advanced Perl programming book? |
| 21:04.40 | jayce | dont' think so... |
| 21:05.18 | rama | That would be a suitable place to talk about them, I would think... |
| 21:06.11 | Bradipo | Hey, what are those small stackable computers called? |
| 21:06.35 | Bradipo | Or small flat desktop systems? |
| 21:07.13 | jayce | pizza boxes :) (nickname for old suns) |
| 21:07.34 | jayce | you talking about that new style of case, small boxy style? |
| 21:10.20 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 21:10.47 | Bradipo | Yeah, very small in size, like a DVD player or VCR. |
| 21:12.59 | wdo | Compiling a "fork" program in perlcc now .. |
| 21:13.12 | wdo | Yikes! |
| 21:15.59 | wdo | But .. it worked .. |
| 21:16.24 | jayce | gotta include a few libraries to do that 'eh? |
| 21:16.31 | wdo | Oh wow.. |
| 21:16.42 | wdo | I didn't relize it actually compiles it monolithic. |
| 21:16.43 | jayce | Bradipo, I just blanked on their name, just because you asked |
| 21:17.03 | Bradipo | microATX? |
| 21:17.09 | Bradipo | Or is it something else... |
| 21:17.19 | jayce | wdo, fork libraries must require a lot of other libs |
| 21:17.26 | wdo | I guess so. |
| 21:17.43 | wdo | Yeah, I have used microATX to build wireless access points before. |
| 21:18.34 | wdo | http://www.fic.com.tw/product/motherboard/1stmainboard.aspx?type=uatx |
| 21:19.55 | wdo | has anybody ever tried linuxbios.org? |
| 21:20.36 | jayce | no, we had a presentation on it about 2 years ago, looked really cool, but I haven't read anything on it since.. |
| 21:21.30 | jayce | $we eq "PLUG" in case you didnt' know wdo :) |
| 21:22.01 | wdo | Crap .. I guess I wasn't a plugger back then. |
| 21:22.22 | jayce | I'd like to see one on that again, see what's changed.. |
| 21:22.59 | wdo | I have a couple of motherboards that are compatible with it .. I am sorely tempted ... |
| 21:24.16 | wdo | Cool idea ... |
| 21:27.23 | goozbach | maybe I should look to putting it on my cluster I'm building tomorrow |
| 21:27.32 | jayce | cluster.. oooohh :) |
| 21:27.48 | goozbach | just a little 3 node cluster. |
| 21:28.03 | goozbach | I haven't ever built one I thought I'd give it a try. |
| 21:28.35 | jayce | brailsmt replies :) |
| 21:28.59 | jayce | cool.. I just built a frakenstein box, and have the base parts to start others, would be fun to get them as one.. |
| 21:30.36 | goozbach | My cluster will have PIII's |
| 21:30.49 | jayce | be nice to have those extra parts/boxes around |
| 21:34.21 | jayce | riiight |
| 21:51.42 | goozbach | if any of you are interested there is just such an auction on the 30th-31st. |
| 21:51.45 | goozbach | http://www.dovebid.com/Auctions/AuctionDetail.asp?auctionID=2128 |
| 21:53.53 | jayce | too bad it's in CA.. |
| 21:54.01 | jayce | and will probably have a few people bidding :) |
| 21:57.31 | goozbach | jayce: it's a webcast and there are fewer people bidding than you think. |
| 21:57.49 | goozbach | last year we got a catlist 5500 for about $5000 |
| 21:59.44 | jayce | hrmm. |
| 21:59.49 | jayce | now if I just had money |
| 22:00.16 | goozbach | that is the problem here too. |
| 22:01.46 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (~timr@proxyle02.ext.ti.com) |
| 22:01.46 | *** mode/#Utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 22:06.42 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@dsl.dyn.02-59.budget.net) |
| 23:10.09 | rama | goozbach: have any docs on how you made your car mp3/ogg player? I'd love to implement something similar sometime... |
| 23:12.26 | goozbach | rama: I haven't written anything up as of yet. I basicly did the same thing as my friend Roberto: other than mine has no lcd yet. It is pretty much a bare bones system |
| 23:12.56 | goozbach | here's a link to Roberto's jukebox. http://www.brasileiro.net/roberto/jukebox/ |
| 23:13.06 | rama | Does it just play all the time then and you just switch to the mp3 source, or how do you get the mp3s to play? |
| 23:13.09 | rama | cool - tnx |
| 23:15.40 | goozbach | rama: no I have it running with a little 10 key keyboard I use that to control it. |
| 23:15.45 | levi | I don't think that would fit in my trunk. ;) |
| 23:16.50 | goozbach | the next step is to get wifi working so I can push my playlists and music files without carting a 40' ethernet cable out the front door. |
| 23:19.06 | goozbach | I kinda ran out of money so I have no display or any fancy controls. |
| 23:19.46 | goozbach | I may take it out of my car. And build a media center PC with it. |
| 23:20.46 | goozbach | as I plan on selling the car (chevy citation) in the near future. (I now drive a '03 chev Caviler) |
| 23:22.07 | goozbach | rama: I got most of my Ideas from this site: http://www.ryanspc.com/index.pl?page=carmp3 |
