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| 00:33.17 | brailsmt_ | ...coding is ruby is fun to do, fun to do, fun to do... |
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| 00:34.08 | Josh222| | rama: are you in richfield or something? |
| 00:34.16 | rama | Richmond, VA |
| 00:34.21 | Josh222| | oh |
| 00:34.40 | Josh222| | what are you doing out in these parts? |
| 00:34.40 | rama | I used to live in Provo |
| 00:35.06 | rama | Job market was better out here (somewhat), so I came to Richmond. |
| 00:35.31 | rama | I'm about two hours south of the "other silicon valley" up in Northern VA |
| 00:36.41 | brailsmt_ | provo is really silicon valley... |
| 00:36.49 | brailsmt_ | shh.... |
| 00:36.53 | brailsmt_ | don't let t esecret out |
| 00:36.59 | brailsmt_ | ;) |
| 00:37.09 | rama | I wish - I'd love to stay up there |
| 00:37.37 | rama | There's probably silicon up in those mountains, though |
| 00:38.24 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 00:38.35 | rama | brailsmt_: where are you from? |
| 00:38.47 | brailsmt_ | KC, MO |
| 00:39.11 | brailsmt_ | roughly |
| 00:39.14 | rama | That's about 8 hours from here - we drove through there to get to Richmond |
| 00:39.41 | brailsmt_ | Kansas City is * hours from Richmond, VA... are you smoking something? |
| 00:39.47 | brailsmt_ | s/*/8/ |
| 00:40.05 | rama | brailsmt_: are you Mormon? |
| 00:40.08 | brailsmt_ | more like 16 hours, i would bet |
| 00:40.11 | brailsmt_ | rama: yes |
| 00:40.19 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 00:40.23 | rama | so you're from the "real" Zion, then |
| 00:40.26 | rama | ;-) |
| 00:40.44 | brailsmt_ | born and raised in the Independence Missouri Stake :) |
| 00:41.08 | rama | Drove through Independence, too. We didn't get a chance to stop anywhere, though. |
| 00:41.11 | brailsmt_ | aka, Jackson County |
| 00:41.22 | brailsmt_ | rama: on I-70? |
| 00:41.26 | rama | yup |
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| 00:41.37 | Josh222| | lol |
| 00:41.37 | rama | I ate at I think it was KFC there |
| 00:41.41 | brailsmt_ | you passed about 100 yds from the McDonalds I worked at in HS |
| 00:41.56 | brailsmt_ | and about a mile from my HS |
| 00:42.14 | rama | Maybe it was McDonalds - probably the same one you worked at |
| 00:42.15 | brailsmt_ | and you went right through my hometown of Blue Springs |
| 00:42.26 | brailsmt_ | just East of Independence |
| 00:42.34 | Josh222| | you were about 3 states away from the state i was born! |
| 00:42.45 | brailsmt_ | Josh222|: wow |
| 00:42.47 | rama | What state is that? Utah? |
| 00:42.51 | Josh222| | no, LA |
| 00:43.07 | rama | hehe - I was born 3 states away in Utah |
| 00:43.11 | brailsmt_ | MO is about 3 states away from most of the country :) |
| 00:43.22 | rama | I grew up in TX, though - just 4-6 hours from LA |
| 00:43.44 | brailsmt_ | rama: is richmond on the far western side of VA? |
| 00:43.49 | Josh222| | true... ive driven across MO on i-70, but it was at night so i didnt see much |
| 00:44.22 | rama | brailsmt_: Far East - we're one hour West of Williamsburg - not quite the coast yet, but almost. We're right in the middle north/south-wise |
| 00:44.31 | brailsmt_ | i used to drop firecrakers on the cars on I-70 from an overpass... |
| 00:44.51 | brailsmt_ | now the overpass is no longer in the boonies... :( |
| 00:44.53 | rama | So that's who it was... |
| 00:45.23 | rama | Josh222|: if you drove far enough west into Kentucky you missed some beautiful country |
| 00:45.36 | brailsmt_ | that and chewed up store bought biscuit dough :) |
| 00:45.58 | brailsmt_ | it really splats at 65 MPH |
| 00:46.00 | rama | Or maybe I have my roads mixed up |
| 00:46.01 | Josh222| | rama: i drove through kentucky in daylight |
| 00:46.35 | rama | Josh222|: then you got to see some really pretty country. Did you get to West Virginia? |
| 00:46.45 | Josh222| | no, i was going to florida |
| 00:47.04 | Josh222| | so i missed that one |
| 00:47.05 | rama | West Virginia gets even prettier - much taller mountains |
| 00:47.15 | rama | Not quite rockies size, though |
| 00:47.39 | Josh222| | well, being from utah, i was more interested in seeing a beach than seeing more mountains |
| 00:48.00 | Josh222| | im too jaded to appreciate mountains |
| 00:48.37 | rama | Virginia Beach has some really pretty beach. But if you want real beach (but cold), you would have a much shorter trip driving to CA |
| 00:49.04 | rama | And if you want pretty and warm, Hawaii is the best in the US |
| 00:49.29 | rama | In the world, I would recommend Thailand |
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| 14:43.26 | hans | brailsmt: up? |
| 14:48.39 | Jayce^ | you know, we should have a plug "spare parts swap meet".. |
| 14:48.45 | Jayce^ | see how many computers we can all build |
| 14:54.25 | rama | greetings pluggers |
| 14:55.07 | rama | hans: how do I scroll up in irssi to see the history of what's been discussed? |
| 14:55.21 | hans | pgup |
| 14:55.29 | rama | duh |
| 14:55.32 | rama | tnx |
| 14:55.32 | hans | :) |
| 14:55.40 | hans | just leave off the shift. :) |
| 14:56.00 | rama | hehe - what does that do? |
| 14:56.05 | hans | nada |
| 14:56.22 | rama | I will be sure to do that, then |
| 14:56.34 | rama | screen is awesome - did I mention that? |
| 14:56.52 | rama | I just picked up right off where I left at home |
| 15:02.16 | rama | Do any of you guys watch Screen Savers on TechTV? |
| 15:22.00 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@dsl.dyn.01-86.budget.net) |
| 15:24.24 | rama | tensai! That's fun to say. |
| 15:24.32 | rama | Is that Japanese? |
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| 15:33.13 | tensai | rama: yes. it means "genius". It's my little inside joke on the world. |
| 15:33.33 | tensai | ah nuts. he left |
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| 15:33.58 | tensai | rama: yes. it means "genius". It's my little inside joke on the world. |
| 15:34.34 | rama | tensai: do you speak Japanese? |
| 15:34.48 | tensai | rama: yup. served my mission there |
| 15:35.04 | rama | Cool - I served mine in Thailand |
| 16:13.38 | Mecworks | cool. I had a Japanese girlfriend who went on a vacation to Thailand... 8^) |
| 16:15.47 | rama | I'd like to go on vacation to Thailand sometime...not in this economy, though |
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| 18:02.25 | rama | anyone here do any search engine marketing? |
| 18:05.14 | Jayce_laptop | ahve done some |
| 18:05.32 | rama | know of any OSS tools to aid in reporting and bidding on search engines? |
| 18:05.43 | Jayce_laptop | perl :) |
| 18:05.48 | rama | Right now all I can find are services that require monthly license agreements |
| 18:05.52 | Jayce_laptop | not anything prebuilt that I know of |
| 18:05.59 | rama | k |
| 18:06.31 | rama | I know I can program one, but convincing my employer to let me spend time developing one isn't very easy |
| 18:06.46 | rama | I've got a million other tools I'm developing right now |
| 18:06.56 | Jayce_laptop | yeah, depending on what you need, a service might be best.. |
| 18:14.52 | rama | yeah - sure would be nice to find time to do it myself. I'd love a tool that handled all of my ppc programs, analytics, statistics, affiliate programs, and customized them to our needs. There are tools out there that come close that can be purchased, but none that do everything. |
| 18:14.52 | rama | Do you know if mod_perl and resin can be run on the same server? |
| 18:14.52 | Jayce_laptop | of course, although you might need to play with proxy/multi-server/port setups.. |
| 18:14.52 | Jayce_laptop | haven't set up resin, so can't say more than that.. |
| 18:15.10 | rama | hmmm...could be interesting to try at home to see what difficulties I run into. I'd love to begin developing some mod_perl-based tools for my company's use on our web servers |
| 18:15.38 | rama | Or I could always delve into the world of Java, dare I try |
| 18:15.53 | Jayce_laptop | no, stay away.. |
| 18:15.58 | rama | or dare I even consider or think of it... |
| 18:16.08 | Jayce_laptop | setting up a mod_perl apace that get's proxied to is really easy.. |
| 18:16.14 | rama | mod_perl is beauty |
| 18:16.19 | Jayce_laptop | especially with an apache (2) front end.. |
| 18:16.48 | rama | we're running 1.x at the moment |
| 18:17.47 | Jayce_laptop | yeah, you run the 1.x with mod_perl stable on the backend, and an apache2 on the front.. works *really* well.. |
| 18:18.05 | Jayce_laptop | and then you can have different apache's/other servers on the backend, each optimized for their taskss |
| 18:18.25 | rama | I could probably have our BigIP forward all port (name your port) requests to a mod_perl box in our NAT |
| 18:18.43 | rama | I know the BigIP runs Apache - not sure which version |
| 18:19.42 | rama | I just can't interrupt our current setup or I think our president would have a heart-attack |
| 18:19.53 | rama | He's scared-to-death of change |
| 18:19.56 | Jayce_laptop | we have our cisco box passing everything to each boxes apache2 on port 80.. the apache 2 serves the static content itself, and proxies mod_perl content to an apache 1 on the backend (transparently).. |
| 18:20.03 | Jayce_laptop | you can have any number of backends |
| 18:22.11 | rama | that's pretty cool. I'd have to read up on that. Haven't looked much into Apache 2 yet. |
| 18:22.34 | Jayce_laptop | you can do it with apache 1 too, works well, but apache2 is better, and easier to configure |
| 18:23.56 | rama | haven't ever messed with proxying in Apache much - looks interesting, though |
| 18:24.07 | rama | I did read a basic summary of it once, though |
| 18:24.37 | brailsmt_ | perl... *barf* |
| 18:24.41 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 18:24.57 | brailsmt_ | though after translating from python to ruby, I would rather code perl than python |
| 18:25.10 | brailsmt_ | at least perl doesn't pretend to be OO |
| 18:25.13 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 18:25.18 | Jayce_laptop | hah.. |
| 18:25.20 | rama | We have to be very careful about cached content, though - so setup of the proxy would need to be careful. Our content is very dynamic, and changes several times a day at times. |
| 18:25.31 | Jayce_laptop | perl can be fully oo, or completely non.. it just doesn't force it |
| 18:25.47 | rama | I don't program in anything but oo now in Perl (usually) |
| 18:25.51 | Jayce_laptop | rama: mod_proxy and mod_cache are separate.. you only cache if you set it up to do that specifically |
| 18:26.09 | Jayce_laptop | still, changing several times a day could lend itself very well to caching |
| 18:26.28 | rama | Jayce_laptop: that's good |
| 18:26.48 | brailsmt_ | python's purely OO way of finding the length of an array... arrayLen(an_array), C's non OO way finding the length of a string (array of chars) strlen(a_string)... (notice the strong resemblance...) |
| 18:26.53 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 18:27.11 | brailsmt_ | ruby's purely OO way... an_array.length |
| 18:28.02 | rama | Perl's OO way of finding the length of an array - scalar(array)-1, or $#array |
| 18:28.08 | Jayce_laptop | lol |
| 18:28.47 | Jayce_laptop | rama: no, $# array is the *last index value* in the array, not it's length |
| 18:29.05 | tensai | Jayce_laptop: I've been burned by that one before |
| 18:29.06 | rama | That's right - I mix them up all the time. |
| 18:29.08 | Jayce_laptop | scalar(@array) is the length |
| 18:29.24 | Jayce_laptop | and in perl 6, you will have a pure OO method |
| 18:29.26 | brailsmt_ | OO constructor in python "class foo: foo(self):..." C's OO constructor "struct foo; init_foo(struct foo self);"... once again note the strong similarities... |
| 18:29.35 | Jayce_laptop | actually, I think that already works in the current perl 6 |
| 18:29.46 | rama | what is it? |
| 18:30.05 | Jayce_laptop | check out the perl 6 book, or install parrot yourself :) |
| 18:30.22 | Jayce_laptop | (translation, I can't remember, and I'm neck deep in work ) :) |
| 18:30.25 | brailsmt_ | python's class methods... Oh wait, you can't have class methods in python! |
| 18:30.35 | brailsmt_ | must suck... |
| 18:31.03 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 18:31.14 | Jayce_laptop | I would love to write a hack one day, that breaks into the python repository (whatever it's called) and random replaces some tabs with whitespace.... |
| 18:31.27 | brailsmt_ | lol |
| 18:31.45 | brailsmt_ | i really like this construct... |
| 18:31.50 | brailsmt_ | def foo: |
| 18:31.52 | brailsmt_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:31.54 | brailsmt_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:31.57 | brailsmt_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:32.19 | brailsmt_ | it is plainly obvious that the first and second a are in the same scope... |
| 18:32.48 | brailsmt_ | dang, my spacing was off... |
| 18:32.54 | brailsmt_ | there goes the app |
| 18:32.57 | brailsmt_ | ;) |
| 18:33.13 | Jayce_laptop | hrhr |
| 18:33.15 | Jayce_laptop | hehe |
| 18:33.20 | Jayce_laptop | stupid laptop keyboard.. |
| 18:34.36 | brailsmt_ | and ruby's way of wrapping C code is much less verbose and much more plain that python's... though python is nicer to embed in C++ than ruby |
| 18:35.00 | brailsmt_ | rb_define_method(...) -- leaves little to the imagaination... |
| 18:35.18 | brailsmt_ | python's printf-ish way is just odd to say the least... |
| 18:35.44 | brailsmt_ | DIE!!! |
| 18:38.37 | Jayce_laptop | guido also annoys me.. just as much as python.. |
| 18:38.48 | Jayce_laptop | the language reflects him alot.. |
| 18:38.58 | Jayce_laptop | arrogant... my way or the highway |
| 18:40.55 | brailsmt_ | ruby 1.8.0 is forthcoming :)) |
| 18:41.19 | rama | you didn't go this year??? |
| 18:41.30 | brailsmt_ | matz is a mormon and a very nice guy |
| 18:41.42 | brailsmt_ | two plusses in my book :) |
| 18:41.58 | Jayce_laptop | matz? from ruby? |
| 18:42.02 | brailsmt_ | yup |
| 18:42.06 | Jayce_laptop | no, was going to, then some things "came up" |
| 18:42.17 | Jayce_laptop | I didnt' know that, definate plus imho too |
| 18:42.28 | brailsmt_ | Youkihiro Matsumoto aka. matz, the creator of ruby |
| 18:42.36 | Jayce_laptop | yeah.. |
| 18:42.47 | Jayce_laptop | larry wall is very christian :) |
| 18:43.10 | Jayce_laptop | actualy, larry is a very good guy.. but a lot of the other big perl guys are very wierd... :) |
| 18:43.41 | Jayce_laptop | they ahve the ruby conference at oscon this year too.. along with the perl conference, python, php, mysql, ... and many others.. |
| 18:45.03 | brailsmt_ | http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/rc2002-minor/mgp00001.html |
| 18:45.53 | brailsmt_ | specifically slide 3 |
| 18:46.19 | brailsmt_ | slide 5 is good too :) |
| 18:46.35 | Jayce_laptop | Christian Mormon... as compared to a non-christian one :D gotta love having to address what people think of us |
| 18:47.13 | brailsmt_ | yeah |
| 18:47.22 | brailsmt_ | i like slide 5 alot |
| 18:47.28 | Jayce_laptop | ddefinately |
| 18:49.50 | rama | wow - he really is mormon - slide 5 is good. |
| 18:50.20 | rama | We need to get him on the LDS-OSS list |
| 18:57.43 | rama | wonder if tensai has met him |
| 19:07.07 | hans | that would be cool if he'd join us there |
| 19:11.30 | rama | anyone know him personally? |
| 19:13.15 | hans | I think brailsmt_ has corresponded with him by email once or twice. |
| 19:13.53 | rama | brailsmt_: are you on lds-oss? |
| 19:14.20 | brailsmt_ | rama: nope, never heard of it... |
| 19:15.35 | brailsmt_ | i sent him an email asking if he would be interested in coming to provo and speaking at byu... he said yeah, but the dept. isn't really chomping at the bit to pay for it... |
| 19:15.54 | tensai | rama: nope. he lives half-way across Japan from where I was. there goes my chance for fame and glory. :) |
| 19:16.48 | rama | brailsmt_: lds-oss is a group we've setup for the focus of oss for the use in promoting L |
| 19:16.54 | rama | LDS values |
| 19:17.11 | rama | you can subscribe at ldsoss-request@taurus.northsky.com |
| 19:17.55 | rama | I need to see if Stuart has talked to Dan about setting up the website and if he needs any help |
| 19:18.08 | brailsmt_ | tensai: you will have your 15 minutes sooner or later |
| 19:19.45 | rama | brailsmt_: Dan Quass, the CTO for the church Family History department is on the list and has given us some excellent heads up on where the church plans to go with OSS |
| 19:20.05 | rama | it would be cool to get Matz on the list, too |
| 19:21.01 | rama | but then again, we may have to program everything in Ruby if he's there ;-) |
| 19:21.36 | hans | I'll get started in getting him there. ;-) |
| 19:21.46 | hans | can I quote you on that? :) |
| 19:21.48 | rama | Maybe we can convert him to Perl |
| 19:22.02 | Jayce_laptop | lol |
| 19:22.23 | rama | You can quote me on that ;) |
| 19:22.31 | rama | (the Perl statement) |
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| 19:32.51 | rama | Jayce_laptop: just ordered TMBG's greatest hits album (can't remember the name of it) |
| 19:33.05 | Jayce_laptop | cool |
| 19:46.34 | rama | brb |
| 19:56.34 | rama | back |
| 19:59.07 | levi_ | Anyone going to the TMBG concert this month? |
| 20:00.02 | Jayce_laptop | how much is it.. I've heard very little about it |
| 20:00.06 | rama | Is it in July? |
| 20:00.14 | Jayce_laptop | just that it's at some field/open air place |
| 20:00.19 | Jayce_laptop | and that it's this month |
| 20:01.18 | rama | I'm coming up end of August - I can come if they'll perform then. |
| 20:13.17 | levi | Yeah, they're $22 + fees from ticketmaster and they're at the Red Butte Gardens at the U. |
| 20:13.30 | levi | July 23rd |
| 20:13.55 | Jayce_laptop | cool beans... that's a pretty good price.. |
| 20:13.57 | Bradipo | What's TMBG? |
| 20:14.02 | Jayce_laptop | anybody been to that location? is it any good? |
| 20:14.08 | Jayce_laptop | They Might be Giants |
| 20:14.11 | Bradipo | Ahh. |
| 20:15.31 | levi | I've been there, but not for a concert before. It's pretty nice. |
| 20:32.27 | rama | That opacity thing that Wade presented was pretty cool - I'm going to have to try that sometime |
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| 20:47.41 | brailsmt_work | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:47.47 | brailsmt_work | stupid whitespace |
| 20:47.50 | brailsmt_work | ;D |
| 20:47.59 | Jayce_laptop | lol |
| 20:48.50 | brailsmt_work | that one works on so many different levels... |
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