| 00:28.58 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@12-254-139-232.client.attbi.com) |
| 01:01.37 | brailsmt | SCO's Motto: "Fake a difference!" |
| 01:01.44 | brailsmt | :) |
| 01:01.59 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 01:02.27 | brailsmt | and Darl McBride is no longer the CEO, he is now the CE-ho |
| 01:02.30 | brailsmt | :) |
| 01:03.06 | emcnabb | I think it's funny how people think I'm of the devil because I had my picture take with McBride :-) |
| 01:03.34 | brailsmt | yeah, you must be evil incarnate for being civil and polite... |
| 01:03.46 | emcnabb | haha |
| 01:04.32 | brailsmt | last i checked, generals in all out warfare treat each other civily while at the same time trying to kill each other... |
| 01:09.06 | emcnabb | good way to put it |
| 01:12.34 | emcnabb | I'm really bad with IRC (I've only started using it really in the last week); how do you send a message directly to another person |
| 01:20.09 | brailsmt | /msg <nick> <msg> |
| 01:37.42 | brailsmt | oh yeah... kahakai just released 0.2 alpha yesterday... |
| 01:37.47 | brailsmt | kahakai.sf.net |
| 01:38.07 | brailsmt | i plan to add full ruby support for the 0.3 release... |
| 01:39.02 | brailsmt | speaking of which... i need to go work on it... too bad i have to translate python to ruby first... |
| 02:05.04 | *** join/#utah harleypig (~harleypig@67-42-18-17.customers.uswest.net) |
| 02:05.22 | harleypig | Ok ... I've got ide-scsi working and I've burned a cd ... now how do I get the dvd player working? |
| 02:05.38 | harleypig | I keep getting "Can't open VMG info!" errors with MPlayer. |
| 02:06.04 | harleypig | googling for that string doesn't bring much help. |
| 02:38.28 | *** join/#utah brailsmt (~michael@12-254-250-249.client.attbi.com) |
| 02:39.22 | *** join/#utah brailsmt (~michael@12-254-250-249.client.attbi.com) |
| 02:59.07 | Jayce^ | harleypig: figure anything out yet? |
| 03:06.34 | harleypig | Yeah ... I need to have the UDF fs compiled. |
| 03:07.10 | harleypig | I find it kind of funny ... I find it kind of sad ... the dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had. |
| 03:18.38 | Jayce^ | heh.. |
| 03:18.49 | Jayce^ | so did your wife get mad at you yesterday? |
| 03:21.48 | harleypig | Why? Oh, did she call you? |
| 03:22.01 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 03:22.33 | harleypig | I'd had about 3 hours in 4 days, just walked slow and missed the bus a few times whilst running some errands. |
| 03:24.50 | Bradipo | Are you playing never winter nights in Linux? |
| 03:24.57 | Jayce^ | yeah.. |
| 03:25.00 | Bradipo | Sweet! |
| 03:25.02 | Jayce^ | plays great |
| 03:25.15 | Bradipo | Now, if only I had a system that was decent enough to install it on. |
| 03:25.18 | Jayce^ | finally bought it friday after they released it.. |
| 03:25.26 | Jayce^ | 'officially' for linux. |
| 03:29.44 | harleypig | Did they get past that needing to have the game installed on a winders box before being able to install on a linux box? |
| 03:29.57 | Jayce^ | yes and no... |
| 03:30.12 | Jayce^ | it's easier if you have that.. otherwise you have to download a 1.3gb file :) |
| 03:30.27 | harleypig | Yipes. Still ... it's worth it I think. |
| 03:30.29 | Jayce^ | although tuxgames I think is releasing a linux specific install cd |
| 03:30.33 | Jayce^ | it is.. |
| 03:30.57 | harleypig | I'm gonna have to clear up some space ... get rid of those pr0n dvd rips. |
| 03:31.51 | Jayce^ | hey hey hey... where are your priorities! |
| 03:32.01 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 03:32.09 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@12-254-139-232.client.attbi.com) |
| 03:32.25 | emcnabb | has anyone made a gentoo ebuild before? |
| 03:32.34 | harleypig | NWN is more important than empty entertainment that just frustrates me cause my wife looks at it and goes "AINT NO WAY BUCKO!" |
| 03:32.53 | harleypig | ermmm ... Did I say that out loud? |
| 03:33.06 | Jayce^ | harleypig: most anyone would look at you and say that :) about *normal* stuff |
| 03:34.30 | emcnabb | because he could then help Evan debug his problems :-) |
| 03:35.55 | Jayce^ | if I really wanted ports that badly.. I'd just use a bsd.. |
| 03:35.55 | Jayce^ | again.. |
| 03:36.19 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 03:36.20 | Jayce^ | I think you should just try sourcemage :) |
| 03:36.29 | emcnabb | maybe I will... :-) |
| 03:37.01 | emcnabb | so Jayce^, how did you end up having a ^ after your name? |
| 03:37.15 | Jayce^ | ever use pascal? |
| 03:37.41 | Bradipo | One of my first programming classes was in pascal. :-) |
| 03:37.43 | emcnabb | not really, kind of before my time |
| 03:37.56 | Bradipo | My very first was basic. |
| 03:38.00 | Jayce^ | my first non-basic class... where I first learned about pointers.. |
| 03:38.16 | Jayce^ | I didn't get the hang of them very quickly... :) |
| 03:38.16 | harleypig | Before your time? *choke* |
| 03:38.19 | Bradipo | And in pascal, they weren't even really pointers... |
| 03:38.33 | Bradipo | Not in the C sense anyway. |
| 03:38.36 | Jayce^ | now, if you know pascals pointers, you see it in my name.. |
| 03:38.37 | Jayce^ | no.. |
| 03:38.41 | Bradipo | Yep. |
| 03:39.07 | Bradipo | I completely forgot about that. |
| 03:39.09 | emcnabb | well, I didn't get into computers until high school and never really programmed until college |
| 03:40.07 | Jayce^ | so the other students I was with used to tag that on.. *real* geeky joke among the friends... |
| 03:40.12 | Jayce^ | geeks picking on geeks :D |
| 03:40.35 | emcnabb | maybe I'll be *emcnabb |
| 03:40.37 | Jayce^ | spelling it that way just came from usually have 3-4 other jason's in every class.. |
| 03:40.37 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 03:40.43 | emcnabb | haha |
| 03:40.51 | Jayce^ | same kinda thing... |
| 03:41.00 | Jayce^ | if pointers were your trouble.. |
| 03:42.28 | *** join/#utah synic (~synic@67.40.96.176) |
| 03:54.18 | harleypig | Jayce^ has been playing with pointers again. |
| 03:57.52 | brailsmt_ | emcnabb: if you need help with gentoo try #tugc |
| 04:04.04 | emcnabb | ok, thanks |
| 04:05.09 | synic | any of you guys do freelance web programming? |
| 04:11.09 | harleypig | Yes. |
| 04:11.20 | harleypig | What'd you have in mind? |
| 04:14.53 | synic | well... how much do you charge, and what do you use? |
| 04:30.23 | harleypig | Oh well. |
| 05:12.01 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~jayce@65.218.37.161) |
| 05:12.20 | Jayce^ | ok, I have a serious problem I need some help with.. |
| 05:12.28 | Jayce^ | my main box just had some freaky kernel panic |
| 05:12.43 | Jayce^ | it crashed, and coming back up, /home was gone!!! |
| 05:12.48 | Bradipo | Nice. |
| 05:13.02 | Bradipo | What filesystem? |
| 05:13.12 | Jayce^ | it's reiserfs.. I was able to reiserfsck it, and it was able to rebuild it's tree |
| 05:13.37 | Bradipo | I wouldn't have done that... |
| 05:13.37 | Jayce^ | but, it won't let me mount it, give the usual mount error, wrong fs, bad sb, or too many.. |
| 05:13.45 | Jayce^ | why? |
| 05:13.50 | Bradipo | My experiences with reiserfsck have been that it corrupts the filesystem even more. |
| 05:13.57 | Jayce^ | all I could come up with at the time.. |
| 05:14.06 | Jayce^ | well, it wouldn't show any data before that.. |
| 05:14.08 | Bradipo | In fact, I wouldn't even recommend resierfs on a production system. |
| 05:14.22 | Bradipo | Does it show anything at all now? |
| 05:14.25 | Jayce^ | it's been running great for me.. until now |
| 05:14.35 | Bradipo | Yeah, I had the same thing happen to me. |
| 05:14.40 | Jayce^ | yeah, when it does the fsck it sees the files (they scroll by) |
| 05:14.43 | Bradipo | Server was running great until one day it crashed. |
| 05:14.49 | Bradipo | Ran reiserfsck and it was all toast after that. |
| 05:15.03 | Jayce^ | well, it can see the data in the fsck, but I can't mount it.. |
| 05:15.04 | Bradipo | I'm sure the data is all still there. |
| 05:15.33 | Jayce^ | heck, I'll do something else, but how can I get the data off (I have other drivespace) and reformat that partition, and get the data back in? |
| 05:15.33 | Bradipo | Anyone here have good reiserfs expertise? |
| 05:15.56 | Bradipo | There may be programs that can recover data from a corrupted filesystem. |
| 05:16.01 | Jayce^ | I'll move it to something else if I can get the data out.. |
| 05:16.12 | Bradipo | We have been using ext3 and it seems pretty stable. |
| 05:16.18 | Jayce^ | well, the data checks out fine now.. no corruptions.. |
| 05:16.25 | Bradipo | But you can't mount it... |
| 05:16.31 | Jayce^ | yeah.. |
| 05:17.06 | Bradipo | Does reiserfsck have an option to repair the superblock? |
| 05:17.17 | Bradipo | mount probably can't find the filesystem. |
| 05:17.30 | Bradipo | You do have the reiserfs module loaded (or built into the kernel) right? |
| 05:17.42 | Jayce^ | yes, it does.. I did that.. I'm thinking that might be the problem though.. I used the defaults it showed.. |
| 05:17.52 | Jayce^ | yeah, I have a different reiser partition loaded just fine |
| 05:18.55 | Bradipo | Hmm, anyone else have an idea about reiserfs? |
| 05:19.16 | Bradipo | I have avoided reiserfs like the plague and hence haven't had as much experience with it as other filesystems. |
| 05:19.36 | Jayce^ | gahh.. I need my /home.. |
| 05:19.51 | Bradipo | Look through the man page for something that fixes the superblock. |
| 05:20.42 | Jayce^ | yeah, I've used that command, had to do it to get the thing back in the first place |
| 05:23.14 | Bradipo | I would rather suffer through the fsck of ext2 than worry about what happens to reiserfs in a crash situation. :-) |
| 05:23.36 | Bradipo | At least with ext2 it puts your files in lost+found and you can manually patch them in place again. :-) |
| 05:24.59 | Bradipo | Find a program to extract the data from your partition? |
| 05:25.08 | Jayce^ | no |
| 05:25.28 | Bradipo | I wonder if PowerQuest has a tool to repair reiserfs... |
| 05:25.56 | Jayce^ | not last I saw |
| 05:26.44 | Bradipo | The thing that is odd is that it is repaired. |
| 05:26.52 | Bradipo | Or at least reiserfsck thinks it is. |
| 05:27.09 | Bradipo | Did you look at dmesg after trying to mount it? |
| 05:27.16 | Bradipo | Sometimes the kernel will complain about things like that. |
| 05:28.10 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:28.10 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:28.10 | Jayce^ | progs package installed. If reiserfsck from the latest reiserfsprogs package should also fail, you are encouraged to get the latest pre version of reiserfsprogs at our ftp site. And if that also fails, please send a bug report to our mailing list and be ready to answer our questions. |
| 05:28.15 | Jayce^ | (from their faq) |
| 05:28.30 | Jayce^ | looks like I'm up to date on the progs |
| 05:29.44 | Bradipo | Ouch. |
| 05:30.04 | Bradipo | Maybe you just need to set the root inode value to something other than 1. :-) |
| 05:30.11 | Bradipo | Er, -1. |
| 05:30.15 | Jayce^ | hrmm. would dd copy that inode numbering too? |
| 06:01.56 | Bradipo | Yeah, it should. |
| 06:02.05 | Bradipo | Just make sure you backup whatever you do. :-) |
| 06:02.10 | Bradipo | Later all. |
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| 13:25.39 | *** join/#utah ramannoodle (~jesse@207.199.144.170) |
| 14:05.30 | hans | what's an ascii character that can be seen, can't be typed, isn't generally used, and doesn't have meaning to the shell |
| 14:06.02 | hans | and is legal in a filename in vfat |
| 14:06.57 | hans | isn't generally used in song names, that is |
| 14:10.19 | ramannoodle | 64-bit? |
| 14:11.08 | hans | well, what I want is a delimiter character that isn't likely to show up in filenames (I could escape it but that should be the exception) |
| 14:11.47 | ramannoodle | I can give you some Thai characters, but they would be 64-bit ascii, I believe. |
| 14:11.48 | hans | as long as it's valid vfat (i.e. won't give windows a fit) and won't throw off scripts... being typable would be a big bonus too |
| 14:12.17 | ramannoodle | Those could be seen, though |
| 14:12.26 | hans | i want them seen |
| 14:12.39 | hans | so i guess having some semblance of delimiterness would be a bonus too :) |
| 14:13.58 | ramannoodle | I don't know if Thai characters are valid vfat or not - don't know enough about ascii to know. I'll have to look it up. |
| 14:14.13 | hans | i'm sure they're not regular ascii |
| 14:14.18 | hans | but i don't know what's valid vfat |
| 14:14.20 | ramannoodle | All I know is that when I install Thai on Linux or Windows, I can type in Thai characters. |
| 14:16.11 | ramannoodle | I'll see if I can look it up when I get a chance. |
| 14:16.33 | ramannoodle | Hey - do you use Musicmatch Jukebox on any Windows machines (man - I wish they'd port to Linux) |
| 14:16.38 | ramannoodle | ? |
| 14:16.45 | hans | no, what's that? |
| 14:18.17 | ramannoodle | similar to winamp, xmms, etc. - best one I've used, though for Windows, especially if you fork the $50 for the Pro version |
| 14:18.51 | ramannoodle | I'm trying to figure out the port it uses to look up music info on the web |
| 14:19.31 | hans | Think I'll use ~ |
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| 14:20.42 | ramannoodle | ~'s a good one, unless it's going to be used by a Mexican |
| 14:22.08 | hans | you don't use ~ by itself in spanish either |
| 14:25.58 | ramannoodle | I use ~ more than I use ` |
| 14:28.48 | hans | ` is a shell-special character though |
| 14:28.53 | hans | ~ is only at the beginning |
| 14:29.00 | hans | less escaping for the typist |
| 14:29.11 | hans | i'm having second thoughts about the whole plan, though |
| 14:41.53 | Jayce^ | hd is dying.. just lost my home dir last night with all my personal info.. |
| 14:42.07 | Jayce^ | thank goodness for rma's.. but that's a lot to lose. |
| 14:43.49 | Jayce^ | anybody know how to pull data off a filesystem that you can't mount anymore? |
| 14:44.31 | ramannoodle | I had the same problem awhile ago, but I couldn't figure it out. I just ended up losing the data. Let me know what you find out. |
| 14:45.05 | Jayce^ | looks like that's what I have to do. |
| 14:45.11 | neybar | d'oh. is it one of your new drives? |
| 14:46.02 | Jayce^ | not *new*.. it's my main 80 on axis |
| 14:46.18 | Jayce^ | all my email.. |
| 14:46.32 | neybar | dang |
| 14:46.37 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 14:46.50 | hans | Jayce^: I can forward you my plug and uug mbox's if you want. ;-) |
| 14:47.12 | Jayce^ | hehe.. nah.. I can get those old ones.. work ones I worry about.. |
| 14:48.08 | Jayce^ | now if hans had already given his presentation, this wouldnt' be a problem for me :) |
| 14:48.13 | Jayce^ | and I could set it up right this time.. |
| 14:49.19 | ramannoodle | Yeah - I lost all my e-mail, genealogy, finances, web design, saved computer games, etc. - I wasn't too happy |
| 14:49.52 | hans | i did once too. i keep stuff I don't want to lose on my raid now, and think about backing it up. |
| 14:50.03 | ramannoodle | Windows has a few programs that can find files on unmounted filesystems - not sure about Linux, though. |
| 14:50.25 | ramannoodle | I was able to restore some essays I had written for scholarships I was applying for through that method |
| 14:50.33 | Jayce^ | this is the sad thing, reiserfsck can see the files... |
| 14:50.48 | Jayce^ | but I can't mount the drive.. |
| 14:53.38 | Jayce^ | why is it, when I have a chance/reason to switch my desktop to smgl, I don't have an up to date disk? |
| 14:53.46 | Jayce^ | and because it's my desktop, I can't burn one |
| 14:55.31 | ramannoodle | surely there has to be some file restore utilities for Linux - can't find any though on sf or freshmeat |
| 14:56.10 | Jayce^ | well it seems like there would be standard tools... not sure how to use them though |
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| 15:12.31 | Bradipo | Jayce^: Ever get your filesystem recovered? |
| 15:12.50 | Jayce^ | no. looks drive the drive is failing |
| 15:13.04 | Bradipo | Ahh, that could be a problem. |
| 15:13.27 | Jayce^ | so it keeps locking the machine when it get's to the bad sectores |
| 15:13.31 | Jayce^ | sectors |
| 15:21.03 | ramannoodle | sectores - is that Portuguese? |
| 15:21.32 | Jayce^ | heh.. maybe |
| 15:22.18 | ramannoodle | put it this way - at least it's not your wife's computer, too, and she's not breathing down your neck like mine was... |
| 15:22.39 | ramannoodle | my wife was about ready to kill me when I said we lost almost everything |
| 15:24.34 | ramannoodle | did you have the drive in multiple partitions for different types of data? (besides the standard) |
| 15:25.07 | Jayce^ | yeah, only lost /home |
| 15:25.17 | Jayce^ | but I think the badness is spreading |
| 15:25.51 | Bradipo | What makes you think its the drive? |
| 15:25.53 | ramannoodle | home can be the most critical, unfortunately |
| 15:26.18 | Jayce^ | it consistently dies when it hits certain parts of the drive.. |
| 15:27.02 | ramannoodle | I know this is the obvious, but have you tried to repair it w/ fsck? |
| 15:27.12 | Jayce^ | many many many times.. |
| 15:27.27 | Jayce^ | any time it get's to that part of the drive... kablooie |
| 15:27.58 | ramannoodle | Well if they'd just build better drives, we'd all be fine, then wouldn't we? |
| 15:28.06 | ramannoodle | darn drive makers |
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| 16:15.48 | ramannoodle | http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2914132,00.html |
| 16:15.53 | ramannoodle | gotta leave it to RMS |
| 16:16.04 | ramannoodle | very well put |
| 16:45.25 | hans | yes. ever since this mess started I've known that if worse comes to worse we migrate to hurd and free unix-like systems as we know it suffer a mild performance hit |
| 16:45.35 | hans | (mild depending on who you are and what you do) |
| 16:46.58 | Bradipo | It's not GNU/Linux |
| 16:47.07 | Bradipo | Drives me nuts. |
| 16:47.42 | hans | ditto, but the kernel/distro separation is fairly clean-cut |
| 16:47.55 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 16:48.03 | hans | doesn't mean we need to call it GNU/Linux though. ;) |
| 16:48.22 | hans | i can see it now - a campaign to "Join the Hurd!" |
| 16:49.16 | hans | i'm not sure what the hurd's status is, but I bet the NetBSD or FreeBSD kernels are more ready to step into place. not that I think that will happen - it would seem much easier to clean the linux kernel first |
| 16:49.56 | Bradipo | What does this mean: ``To copy Unix source code would not be ethically wrong, but it is illegal...'' |
| 16:50.11 | Bradipo | Why is it not ethically wrong? |
| 16:50.32 | Bradipo | Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here... |
| 16:50.36 | hans | i think that refers to the openness of the unix source code and the environment/attitudes under which it was developed |
| 16:50.46 | Bradipo | Hmm, I see. |
| 16:50.52 | hans | 'would not be ethically wrong' if it weren't illegal |
| 16:51.08 | hans | of course SCO has a different opinion on that being the 'IP owner' |
| 16:51.18 | Bradipo | That would make sense I guess, but maybe he should clarify that so people that aren't familiar with the zealous GNU folks goals and intentions. |
| 16:51.24 | hans | moot point being that it's illegal, though |
| 17:33.18 | ramannoodle | I think the ethics of any programmer are not to re-invent the wheel if it's already been done, and I think that's what he're referring to. |
| 17:33.39 | ramannoodle | Unfortunately, closed-source programs violate that ethic. |
| 17:33.47 | ramannoodle | I think that's what he's referring to. |
| 17:34.25 | ramannoodle | Imagine how much time would be saved if we all just worked together and used each other's code to write our own code. |
| 17:34.46 | ramannoodle | Not to mention the amount of money the govt would save if they were to make that legal. |
| 17:35.27 | ramannoodle | It would be a mess to make it legal, but you catch my drift... |
| 17:36.45 | ramannoodle | I liked his point of how if there ever is code recognized to be a copy of UNIX, that the great thing about Linux is that the code can easily be rewritten to follow the law. |
| 17:37.00 | ramannoodle | Whereas it would be much harder for closed-source programs to do so. |
| 17:37.37 | ramannoodle | SCO and others against this will only hurt themselves, as Linux and GNU are built to always survive. |
| 17:37.58 | Bradipo | Imagine how secure the Internet would be if we all reused DJB's code! |
| 17:37.59 | ramannoodle | they will certainly hurt after ibot does that |
| 17:38.36 | ramannoodle | forgive my naiveness, but who's DJB? |
| 17:38.45 | Bradipo | Daniel J Bernstein. |
| 17:38.54 | ramannoodle | ahhh... |
| 17:38.55 | Bradipo | The guy who sued the United States and is winning. |
| 17:39.13 | Bradipo | Wrote qmail, djbdns, publicfile and a large number of other securely written programs. |
| 17:40.26 | ramannoodle | yes, there would be no need for standards. People would just write good code and choose from the best out there. |
| 17:40.58 | ramannoodle | Forget what BG says about OSS hurting business - it only helps business |
| 17:41.18 | ramannoodle | makes business more productive |
| 17:41.33 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 17:42.05 | ramannoodle | The great thing about OSS is you can still charge for it if you want to |
| 17:42.45 | ramannoodle | M$ knows that fair and square, considering their use of it in the past |
| 17:44.29 | ramannoodle | yes, I do that sometimes |
| 17:44.51 | Bradipo | I personally prefer the BSD license over GPL. |
| 17:45.02 | Bradipo | It is clearly more business friendly. |
| 17:48.26 | Matt_O | greetings program |
| 17:50.15 | tensai | "business friendly" depends on the point of view |
| 17:50.41 | tensai | if I'm a company releasing a product and use BSD, then my competitor can take my code and bundle it as proprietary |
| 17:50.49 | tensai | not so if I use GPL |
| 17:51.37 | tensai | I see a lot of good uses for both |
| 17:53.05 | hans | same here. I have been fantasizing of writing some genealogical software, and separating the db backend stuff and the frontend; bsd or apache for the backend and gpl for the front |
| 17:53.17 | Bradipo | tensai: If you're a company releasing a product and use BSD you don't have to release your code and they can't take it. |
| 17:53.39 | hans | to encourage standards compliance (if other vendors use my code we'll me more compatible and that's a Good Thing in genealogy) |
| 17:55.06 | tensai | if I don't want to release my code, I won't license it to anybody then |
| 17:55.28 | tensai | that assumes I haven't incorporated someone else's code, of course |
| 17:56.33 | tensai | I see your point and agree it's a valid one. There are times when you *want* to release your code but don't want it misappropriated. |
| 17:56.50 | tensai | GPL works for that |
| 17:56.58 | Matt_O | I agree |
| 18:03.58 | hans | http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030619.html |
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| 19:38.58 | ramannoodle | I hate thinking |
| 19:45.28 | levi | Yeah. Down with thinking! |
| 19:47.06 | statik | What!? What does that mean? |
| 19:47.08 | statik | :P |
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| 20:03.03 | ramannoodle | http://www.macwhiz.com/articles/art-of-turboing.html |
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