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| 06:16.52 | Jayce^ | ouch, it had to happen.. |
| 06:17.28 | Jayce^ | in the latest /. sco article, mormons are compared to scientologists.. |
| 07:40.39 | goozbach | link? |
| 07:44.06 | Jayce^ | don't have it up anymore.. |
| 07:44.19 | Jayce^ | AC post, about halfway down.. modded to +5 funny :( |
| 07:46.55 | goozbach | found it. thanks for the heads up. |
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| 13:30.20 | hans | anyone up yet? |
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| 14:16.53 | hans | morning. TimRiker, say I want to package something for Debian - do I need to become a debian developer for that? |
| 14:29.14 | TimRiker | yes. or find a sponsor to submit the packages once you have them built. |
| 14:31.28 | hans | how hard is it to become a developer? |
| 14:34.49 | TimRiker | there is an approval process, it's easier if you have a "sponsor". they ask you a bunch of debian policy questions and you need to have some other debian developer sign your gpg key. |
| 14:35.21 | TimRiker | It also helps if you have a package ready. Be sure that it conforms to the current debian policy guidelines. |
| 14:36.01 | TimRiker | it takes a few months to get through the queue, but as I mentioned your sponsor can upload packages until you are approved. |
| 14:36.45 | TimRiker | http://www.debian.org/devel/join/newmaint |
| 14:37.12 | TimRiker | andersee is the only registered debian developer in utah that I know of now. |
| 14:37.29 | TimRiker | there may be more, just not that I'm aware of. |
| 14:40.41 | hans | you're a developer, aren't you? |
| 14:46.36 | TimRiker | yes, but no longer in utah. I'm in dallas now. |
| 14:46.52 | hans | right. but you've signed my key |
| 14:47.15 | hans | according to that site (which I've skimmed) that completes the identification step |
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| 16:41.46 | Jayce^ | going to prove sco wrong? |
| 16:41.58 | statik` | Heh. |
| 16:41.59 | hans | heh. No, but if I see anything I'll tell you. :) |
| 16:45.13 | hans | speaking of which... looks like sco found an amendment (1996) to the novell contract that they claim transfers copyright to them. |
| 16:45.28 | hans | novell doesn't have it any of their files, though |
| 16:45.35 | hans | http://news.com.com/2100-1016_3-1013865.html |
| 16:45.45 | statik` | I hope SCO burns. |
| 16:47.09 | Bradipo | Well, if it has their signature, are you going to claim that SCO forged a corporate executive's signature? |
| 16:48.04 | Bradipo | If they don't have it, maybe they were careless with their legal documents... :-) |
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| 16:51.31 | Bradipo | Nope. |
| 16:51.41 | Bradipo | I work in IT. |
| 16:52.03 | Bradipo | Besides, the majority of IT jobs out there are Windows shops. |
| 16:52.11 | Jayce^ | yuck |
| 16:52.12 | Bradipo | I haven't touched a Windows server in years. |
| 16:52.27 | Jayce^ | we can understand that sentiment |
| 16:53.45 | Jayce^ | to me it just seems funny that a paralegal, just finds an ammendment, that they didn't know about in the beginning, right after novell brought up their point.. |
| 16:53.48 | Jayce^ | and with novell not |
| 16:53.51 | Jayce^ | having a copy |
| 16:54.28 | Bradipo | Right, but why didn't Novell know about it when they brought up the point? |
| 16:54.43 | statik` | And Novell agreed with them to a point. |
| 16:54.48 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 16:54.52 | statik` | That some of the assumptions were correct. |
| 16:55.00 | Bradipo | Well, the acknowledged that it appeared to be legitimate. |
| 16:55.01 | statik` | They do own some of the copyrights. |
| 16:55.16 | statik` | Hmm.. |
| 16:55.55 | statik` | I have really been down on SCO lately, I lost all respect I had for them. |
| 16:56.24 | Bradipo | That's the funny thing about---has anyone ever really been *for* SCO? |
| 16:56.37 | statik` | I hope someone takes the unixware source, hacks thier site and posts a message to the public saying something along the lines of, "we are sorry, and we give up; Heres the unixware source, take it and use it." |
| 16:56.41 | Bradipo | Have you ever seen any good comments about SCO/Caldera prior to this lawsuit? |
| 16:56.59 | statik` | No, but I liked caldera linux |
| 16:57.18 | Bradipo | Caldera linux was actually a pretty good distribution. |
| 16:57.23 | statik` | Yeah, I liked it. |
| 16:57.28 | Bradipo | But the linux community didn't think so. |
| 16:57.33 | statik` | Why not? |
| 16:57.37 | Bradipo | Not sure. |
| 16:57.51 | Bradipo | They have always been negative about Caldera linux. |
| 16:57.54 | Jayce^ | Bradipo: I did about caldera before some of the United crap that wen ton.. |
| 16:57.58 | Jayce^ | but not since |
| 16:58.05 | Bradipo | Actually, I think United Linux was a smart move. |
| 16:58.13 | Bradipo | THe problem with linux is that there are too many distros. |
| 16:58.16 | Jayce^ | caldera was my first distro of linux.. |
| 16:58.27 | Bradipo | My first was Slackware. :-) |
| 16:58.39 | Jayce^ | I think the united idea was good, but I don't like some of the implementation, or more, how the caldera/sco side handled it.. |
| 16:58.44 | Bradipo | In fact, I'm still using slack on my desktop at home. |
| 16:58.53 | Bradipo | I see. |
| 16:58.57 | statik` | You know.. it happens when you get a large group of purists, who just complain because its not geeky enough. I hear people bashing mandrake because its to windowish. IMHO, the only way the relate is ease of use. The difference is the one works, so where do the complaints come from. |
| 16:59.00 | Bradipo | I think it could have been done better. |
| 16:59.17 | statik` | way they realate* |
| 16:59.18 | Bradipo | I don't like Mandrake because things are goofy. |
| 16:59.32 | statik` | What do you mean? |
| 16:59.55 | Bradipo | At any rate, if Linux wants enterprise vendors to port to linux, it needs to be more standardized. |
| 17:00.11 | Bradipo | That was the point of United Linux---provide vendors a single platform to which they could port, rather than 500. |
| 17:00.24 | tensai | wasn't that also the point of the LSB? |
| 17:00.27 | statik` | I dont know.. |
| 17:00.30 | Bradipo | Kind of. |
| 17:00.37 | statik` | I kinda like the choice. |
| 17:00.40 | Bradipo | LSB wasn't going anywhere though. |
| 17:00.55 | Bradipo | At least as far as I understand it. |
| 17:01.12 | Bradipo | Well, I like choice, but what happens when you can't run an application on your favorite distro? |
| 17:01.29 | Bradipo | For example, what if Oracle only releases their DB for Mandrake? |
| 17:01.31 | statik` | I understand |
| 17:01.42 | Bradipo | But you prefer RedHat... |
| 17:01.47 | statik` | But thats what linux is based on. |
| 17:01.54 | statik` | You get the distro that was built for a reason |
| 17:01.54 | Jayce^ | that's what a large part of lsb was though (at least locations, naming, deployment, etc..) |
| 17:01.58 | statik` | They all have a strong point. |
| 17:02.02 | Jayce^ | versioning isn't covered I think |
| 17:02.04 | Bradipo | I guess that's one way to see it, yeah. |
| 17:02.29 | statik` | Some guy didnt like the way any other distros way of handeling routing rules, so he creates one that works for him. |
| 17:02.38 | Bradipo | Use RedHat for this, Mandrake for nothing, Debian for everything else. :-) |
| 17:03.13 | statik` | I dont make sense.. |
| 17:03.21 | Jayce^ | mandrake makes a good desktop/starter imho... but never a server |
| 17:03.22 | statik` | I should quit talking |
| 17:03.30 | Bradipo | No, you make sense. |
| 17:03.56 | statik` | Mandrake has the tools that others are missing. |
| 17:04.00 | Bradipo | I don't think Mandrake is good for even a beginners desktop. :-) |
| 17:04.12 | statik` | If any distro is going to start the windows/linux conversion, it would be mandrake at this point. |
| 17:04.14 | Bradipo | The first time I used Mandrake on the desktop was the last. |
| 17:04.15 | Jayce^ | heck, even my wife can use mandrake.. |
| 17:04.22 | Bradipo | What about Lindows? |
| 17:04.27 | statik` | Heh.. |
| 17:04.30 | statik` | Lindows is a joke. |
| 17:04.38 | statik` | It crashes more than windows. |
| 17:04.44 | Bradipo | Could be, I've never really used it. |
| 17:04.59 | statik` | I had it crash on me every time I ran a lindows native program. |
| 17:05.21 | statik` | Its a good idea gone bad. |
| 17:06.25 | hans | i'm almost as crippled in mandrake as in windows |
| 17:06.35 | hans | actually, maybe a bit more. I still remember how to make windows behave. |
| 17:07.00 | statik` | Mandrake has a guified tool for everything you could want to do |
| 17:07.16 | hans | i think it's not unreasonable to think novell just misplaced the amendment. Seems odd that SCO didn't find it before though - makes me think even more that they're just shooting from the hip. |
| 17:07.16 | statik` | I like that word. |
| 17:07.24 | hans | statik`: that's just the problem |
| 17:07.35 | hans | that's real nice until you have to remotely administer a box |
| 17:07.45 | statik` | hans: Webmin |
| 17:07.49 | hans | and I even remotely administer my desktop |
| 17:07.50 | Jayce^ | they have curses versions of all their tools too |
| 17:07.56 | hans | statik`: not on your life |
| 17:08.02 | Jayce^ | alhtough you can still do it all normally |
| 17:08.22 | statik` | hans: And how do you just misplace and forget about signing over the copy rights to one of the biggest OS's of all time. |
| 17:08.32 | hans | Jayce^: 'normally' means you can edit files but they're all screwed up and in non-standard places. |
| 17:08.46 | Jayce^ | such as? |
| 17:09.13 | Jayce^ | the menus are the only ones I can think of.. but they've been pushing that to others for a long time.. |
| 17:09.22 | Jayce^ | both gnome and kde share the same menu's with them |
| 17:09.30 | hans | it's a minor example, but do you see /etc/init.d/[wxkg]dm? no, they've collapsed it into /etc/init.d/dm |
| 17:09.42 | hans | ok, fine, but all these little things add up |
| 17:09.55 | hans | and I am left never knowing what to do to configure the thing by hand. |
| 17:10.19 | hans | menus - i don't think there's a standard for menus. :) what a mess |
| 17:11.06 | statik` | My blackbox menu is so organized. |
| 17:11.15 | statik` | I dont think I have ever had one so easy to use. |
| 17:11.53 | statik` | Kde and gnome's are redundant. They show the same programs twice sometimes. |
| 17:13.59 | Bradipo | I prefer the simple WindowMaker desktop. |
| 17:14.16 | hans | bradipo: ditto |
| 17:16.11 | tensai | anybody know Exim? |
| 17:16.19 | hans | define 'know' |
| 17:16.44 | tensai | I need to create some funky routing rules |
| 17:17.02 | hans | not I |
| 17:17.16 | tensai | unfortunately, not I either |
| 17:17.17 | Bradipo | Nor I. |
| 17:17.43 | tensai | maybe I'll just see if this seems possible |
| 17:18.00 | Bradipo | Ok. |
| 17:18.08 | statik` | http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,59111,00.html |
| 17:18.14 | tensai | I have 2 domains that we use internally that need to be routed through different external smart hosts |
| 17:18.15 | statik` | FasTCP |
| 17:18.38 | tensai | seems easy enough to say "from *@domain1, use mx1", "from *@domain2, use mx2" |
| 17:18.48 | statik` | "Caltech is already in talks with Microsoft and Disney about using it for video on demand," the magazine added. |
| 17:18.52 | statik` | ... figures. |
| 17:19.29 | statik` | I mean, they COULD give it to the internet as a whole, but nah.. who am I kiddin; disney and ms can give them what we cant. |
| 17:19.35 | tensai | statik`: that article was wildly inaccurate |
| 17:19.44 | statik` | oh? |
| 17:19.46 | statik` | How so? |
| 17:19.52 | Bradipo | tensai: that should be possible to do. |
| 17:20.08 | Bradipo | Wait, you want it to relay based on who it comes from? |
| 17:20.29 | Bradipo | Or route rather... |
| 17:20.29 | tensai | statik`: FastTCP is only useful for extremely high bandwidth (10 GB) lines, which nobody has |
| 17:20.34 | tensai | Bradipo: yes, from |
| 17:20.52 | Bradipo | Hmm, not sure if that is possible. |
| 17:21.04 | statik` | Thats not true.. |
| 17:21.10 | Bradipo | I can think of ways to accomplish it, but they probably aren't what you are thinking. |
| 17:21.16 | statik` | I know a kid with lines that big ) |
| 17:21.41 | Bradipo | Just have the clients on one domain connect to a different IP and anything that comes on that IP goes through mx1. |
| 17:21.41 | tensai | Bradipo: well, as long as it gets the job done, I don't really care. |
| 17:21.58 | Bradipo | Then the other clients are configured to use a different IP or port and anything that comes in on that IP goes to mx2. |
| 17:22.01 | Bradipo | Make sense? |
| 17:22.22 | statik` | Besides.. I prefer slow connections; I can start the download and go do something else. |
| 17:22.23 | Bradipo | This means, however, that there will be two groups of clients. |
| 17:22.26 | tensai | Bradipo: sure, but I can't do that. The plot thickens. |
| 17:22.47 | Bradipo | Then you would have to use a catchall... |
| 17:23.00 | tensai | All the clients are connecting to one Exchange mail server. That can't be fixed :( |
| 17:23.25 | Bradipo | Is this for incoming mail? |
| 17:23.27 | Bradipo | Or outgoing? |
| 17:23.38 | tensai | outgoing |
| 17:24.46 | Bradipo | Hmm... |
| 17:24.54 | tensai | this just hasn't been my week for mail servers |
| 17:25.18 | Bradipo | Well, this is actually the reverse of what most people normally do with email. :-) |
| 17:26.01 | tensai | figures, with my luck |
| 17:27.03 | Bradipo | I might have a method brewing... |
| 17:35.52 | Bradipo | Ok, what about this---warning, I'm thinking out loud... |
| 17:37.05 | Bradipo | if SENDERDOMAIN=x1 then reinject message to USER=HOST@mx1 (replace the @ with =) |
| 17:37.26 | Bradipo | Then on mx1 use a catchall to extract the email and reinject for USER@HOST |
| 17:37.38 | Bradipo | tensai: Follow me? |
| 17:37.49 | tensai | I think so |
| 17:38.11 | Bradipo | You would have to be careful though... |
| 17:38.25 | Bradipo | Maybe you would want to use a ``secret'' alias. |
| 17:38.42 | Bradipo | If someone discovered that you are doing this they could relay email to other hosts. |
| 17:39.15 | Bradipo | So, instead of sending to USER=HOST@mx1 send to secret-alias-USER=host@mx1 |
| 17:39.48 | Bradipo | Then, have the secret-alias handle the extraction of USER=HOST, convert to USER@HOST and forward it on. |
| 17:40.55 | tensai | that might work |
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| 18:01.21 | Jayce^ | question on mutt, what's the rc setting for the default 'from' address? |
| 18:27.25 | brailsmt | set from="brailsmt@yahoo.com" |
| 18:27.52 | brailsmt | set envelope_from=yes |
| 18:48.12 | tensai | Bradipo: I got it. Turns out you can script the router definitions in Exim's config, so I do a match on $header_From: to pick the right one |
| 18:48.44 | tensai | now all that's left is to make critical changes in 2 production servers, without interrupting service. Piece of cake. |
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| 18:59.06 | statik` | Who wants to hear jingle bells? |
| 18:59.23 | statik` | Here I go! |
| 18:59.30 | statik` | |
| 18:59.32 | statik` | |
| 18:59.33 | statik` | |
| 18:59.43 | statik` | I messed up |
| 18:59.46 | statik` | |
| 18:59.48 | statik` | |
| 19:00.30 | statik` | Beep beep beep! Beep beep beep! |
| 19:01.15 | Jayce^ | ok, that sucked... |
| 19:01.28 | Jayce^ | I was in another desktop.. things started beeping at me.. |
| 19:01.32 | statik` | Heh.. |
| 19:01.43 | statik` | Sorry, I should have warned.. I didnt think about it. |
| 19:02.39 | Jayce^ | thought something was going wrong |
| 19:02.52 | statik` | Heh. |
| 19:02.58 | statik` | Did it sound like jingle bells at all? |
| 19:03.13 | goozbach | yeah... sure it did. |
| 19:03.21 | statik` | Well tahts good |
| 19:03.27 | goozbach | </sarcasim> |
| 19:11.51 | statik` | Heh. |
| 19:26.18 | goozbach | wow what a timeout. |
| 19:26.27 | statik` | I was just about to say that |
| 19:26.32 | goozbach | blasted |
| 19:26.45 | statik` | Heh.. |
| 19:27.47 | goozbach | on all the other servers I'm on ~190 seconds is a large timeout. |
| 19:29.38 | statik` | I had a problem with my X session, and I closed it. Then I got back in and statik was still here.. That was a LONG time |
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| 19:45.23 | statik` | Do you guys remember that guy who went hunting and left his two/three year old son in the car. The kid got out of the car and froze to death? |
| 19:46.03 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 19:46.15 | statik` | Theres a guy here who left his one year old son in the car for 8 hours while he was at work, and the tempiture reached 104 |
| 19:46.25 | Jayce^ | dang! |
| 19:46.29 | statik` | I know. |
| 19:46.30 | CosmicPenguin | Ugh |
| 19:46.43 | statik` | The guy who left his kid and went hunting got prison time |
| 19:46.50 | statik` | this guy is gettin off scotch free |
| 19:47.23 | statik` | Is that right.. scotch free... |
| 19:47.26 | statik` | that sounds wrong. |
| 19:47.57 | hans | maybe you mean scotch Free? |
| 19:48.09 | statik` | Heh, thats it. |
| 19:48.24 | statik` | Anywho... kinda sad. |
| 19:48.27 | Jayce^ | scott free |
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| 21:02.24 | goozbach | sometimes I get away scotch free but other times I have to pay for it. |
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