| 00:06.08 | kryptik | heh, guess not... |
| 00:08.41 | *** join/#utah decriptor (~decriptor@02-087.054.popsite.net) |
| 00:09.18 | kryptik | Your back! |
| 00:09.52 | brailsmt_ | happy day! happy day!! |
| 00:09.54 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 00:10.05 | decriptor | yup |
| 00:10.08 | kryptik | Heh |
| 00:10.32 | kryptik | Hey han_solo I got my op to autoOP me, thanks for trying to help |
| 00:10.55 | kryptik | somebody join #hackerslsb, I want to see if It auto Ops everyone |
| 00:11.18 | kryptik | oops I mean hackerslab |
| 00:11.29 | kryptik | :) |
| 00:11.52 | decriptor | what's better slackware or redhat |
| 00:12.14 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: uhmm, apples and oranges |
| 00:12.24 | brailsmt_ | and define "better" |
| 00:12.43 | brailsmt_ | redhat == easier |
| 00:12.44 | kryptik | neither, if it is linux your good to go |
| 00:12.49 | kryptik | to install thats it |
| 00:13.06 | brailsmt_ | slackware == do it yourself, one level above linux from scratch |
| 00:13.16 | decriptor | not true I hate mandrake |
| 00:13.25 | kryptik | why? |
| 00:13.35 | brailsmt_ | mandrake ~= redhat |
| 00:13.56 | decriptor | that's what I'm debting I don't like the thing that redhat changes the fs a little so you almost have to download there updates |
| 00:13.57 | kryptik | heh |
| 00:13.57 | brailsmt_ | s/~=/approximately equals/ |
| 00:14.14 | kryptik | right. |
| 00:14.24 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: go for gentoo, or debian, or even one of the bsds |
| 00:14.33 | kryptik | gentoo i hear is way good |
| 00:14.39 | kryptik | bsd has always been good |
| 00:14.40 | brailsmt_ | i love it |
| 00:14.56 | kryptik | I never heard of it till like a month ago |
| 00:15.14 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: afaik, slackware doesn't have a pkg mgmt system, so it is a PITA to keep current |
| 00:15.40 | brailsmt_ | redhat's pkg mgmt system is rpm, which, IMO, sucks |
| 00:15.46 | decriptor | they do have rpm from what I understand but I don't mind the tar.gz files |
| 00:15.57 | kryptik | hold on |
| 00:16.41 | decriptor | I'm almost running into the fear of moving from redhat to something else |
| 00:16.42 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: a distro like gentoo, or fbsd has a pkg mgmt system that is easy to work with, yet you still compile from source, and can optimize to your system |
| 00:17.11 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: debian has a nice pkg mgmt system, and recently they added the option to compile from source as well |
| 00:17.39 | decriptor | what do you mean by pkg mgmt system something like rpms? |
| 00:17.50 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: you can have rpm on gentoo as well if you want... |
| 00:18.24 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: meaning that you have a system to resolve all dependencies for you, and manage the current state of the packages you have installed... |
| 00:18.45 | decriptor | thing this is I want to be able to tar files and not have to worry about the paths not matching like in redhat |
| 00:18.53 | decriptor | oh ok |
| 00:18.59 | *** join/#utah kill_you (kryptik@208.187.113.104) |
| 00:19.16 | kill_you | Freak, something in outlook is screwed. |
| 00:19.20 | brailsmt_ | why are you so worried about redhat? |
| 00:19.28 | kill_you | I like it |
| 00:19.33 | decriptor | all I know so far is redhat |
| 00:19.36 | brailsmt_ | s/something in// |
| 00:19.42 | kill_you | So no worries |
| 00:19.57 | kill_you | I run three versions of rh and they run fin |
| 00:19.57 | kill_you | e |
| 00:20.08 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: no need to stay shackled to it though, if you move to a new distro, you don't need to worry about rh anymore |
| 00:20.34 | kill_you | right. |
| 00:20.39 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: with gentoo/debian/*bsd you will not need to use rpms |
| 00:20.52 | kill_you | what is rpms? |
| 00:21.06 | decriptor | the thing is that I end up redoing my system multipy time |
| 00:21.19 | brailsmt_ | kill_you: it is a pkg mgmt system |
| 00:21.29 | kill_you | hmm |
| 00:21.32 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: what do you mean? |
| 00:21.36 | decriptor | redhat package management |
| 00:21.42 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: that is wrong... |
| 00:21.50 | brailsmt_ | it is not redhat pkg mgmt system |
| 00:21.55 | decriptor | my only box right now is 100% linux |
| 00:22.02 | brailsmt_ | it is ... pkg mgmt system |
| 00:22.05 | decriptor | R.P.M.S |
| 00:22.17 | kill_you | I fail to see the trouble |
| 00:22.18 | brailsmt_ | the R is not for RedHat though |
| 00:22.23 | decriptor | really |
| 00:22.29 | brailsmt_ | yes |
| 00:22.29 | kill_you | what is it for |
| 00:22.30 | decriptor | I always thought it was |
| 00:23.15 | han_solo | i think it was then they changed it posthumously |
| 00:24.42 | decriptor | one of the things that I want to do is learn the console better |
| 00:24.48 | *** join/#utah kill_you (kryptik@208.187.113.104) |
| 00:25.01 | kill_you | Man I cant get my nick to go away |
| 00:25.05 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: you should get away from an rpm based system, IMO |
| 00:25.18 | decriptor | yeah I know |
| 00:25.24 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: to learn something else at least |
| 00:25.29 | decriptor | I just hate blowing my system out |
| 00:25.55 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: get a new hdd and install a new distro on it... |
| 00:26.04 | kill_you | somebody kick kryptik |
| 00:26.07 | decriptor | that was why I was thinking about slack |
| 00:26.08 | brailsmt_ | or backup you current system, and then redo it |
| 00:26.26 | decriptor | I'm poor |
| 00:26.34 | kill_you | Heh, |
| 00:26.39 | decriptor | I've only been in Utah for three weeks |
| 00:26.42 | brailsmt_ | i have never used slack, but it may be too bare bones if you are new to linux or have only used redhat/mdk |
| 00:26.44 | kill_you | me to |
| 00:26.51 | decriptor | no job yet |
| 00:27.09 | decriptor | I used to be a linux sys admin for lucent technologies |
| 00:27.10 | kill_you | hmm, play everquest and sell your level 60 characters, lol |
| 00:27.25 | decriptor | about two years ago |
| 00:27.54 | kill_you | ANYONE know why my nick wont go away |
| 00:28.02 | kill_you | KRYPTIK NEEDS TO LEAVE I WANT THAT NICK |
| 00:28.04 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: well I still suggest using a distro with a good package management system, and I don't classify slack in that category... |
| 00:28.18 | decriptor | I agree |
| 00:28.20 | brailsmt_ | kill_you: it will go away after a little while |
| 00:28.29 | kill_you | Ok... I will wait |
| 00:28.34 | kill_you | ... |
| 00:28.37 | kill_you | ... |
| 00:28.49 | decriptor | I also hate downloading I only have a 56k modem |
| 00:29.02 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: can't you partition your current drive and not blow the whole thing away? |
| 00:29.04 | kill_you | till switchpoint comes back, right |
| 00:29.05 | decriptor | kill_you my bro had that teacher last year |
| 00:29.17 | kill_you | really? |
| 00:29.18 | decriptor | don't have partition magic |
| 00:29.20 | kill_you | shes cool |
| 00:29.21 | kill_you | I like her |
| 00:29.23 | decriptor | yeah |
| 00:29.26 | decriptor | wouldnt |
| 00:29.28 | decriptor | know |
| 00:29.30 | kill_you | heh |
| 00:29.47 | kill_you | Youll probably meet her if your that interested. |
| 00:30.01 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: gentoo/debian/*bsd are heavy on the bandwidth |
| 00:30.18 | decriptor | how big is gentoo |
| 00:30.22 | kill_you | get coyote linux, you can download that in like three minutes... |
| 00:30.22 | kill_you | lol |
| 00:30.33 | kill_you | fits on a floppy |
| 00:30.49 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: well, it has 3000+ pkgs in it, but you only need a little bit of that to get going... |
| 00:31.08 | kill_you | I always install them all |
| 00:31.46 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: with any of the distros I have mentioned the packages are not store on your computer, rather you issue a command which then downloads the source and compiles it... |
| 00:32.09 | kill_you | thats cool |
| 00:32.12 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: the gentoo 1.4 live install cd is only 100-200 MB |
| 00:32.16 | kill_you | rh doesnt do that |
| 00:32.20 | decriptor | that's true I heard that bsd did that but the other I didn't know that |
| 00:32.41 | kill_you | hmm. |
| 00:32.59 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: gentoo is based on bsd ports |
| 00:33.02 | decriptor | the other thing is I just bought redhat 8 pro don't ask why |
| 00:33.20 | brailsmt_ | ok i won't ask, but why? :) |
| 00:33.26 | kill_you | why did you buy it |
| 00:33.39 | decriptor | I think it's the first time I bought redhat since 5.2 |
| 00:33.41 | kill_you | you must really hate downloading |
| 00:33.55 | brailsmt_ | i mean rh will certainly work, but its pkg mgmt system is pretty poor, IMO |
| 00:34.04 | decriptor | I think it's more because I didn't have the patience to download it |
| 00:34.25 | kill_you | what are the difference between pkg mgmt systems, and what should I look for? |
| 00:34.47 | brailsmt_ | i downloaded mandrake 8.1 on a 56.6 modem... it took 2 days... |
| 00:35.07 | decriptor | yeah but my internet at home is shared between four computers |
| 00:35.09 | kryptik | ahhh... |
| 00:35.13 | brailsmt_ | and we only had one phone line... |
| 00:35.23 | decriptor | yup so do I |
| 00:35.31 | brailsmt_ | my wife got mad... |
| 00:35.33 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 00:35.39 | decriptor | I sure she did |
| 00:35.48 | kryptik | heh, i am on dial up but quik internet only give me a 26k connection |
| 00:36.04 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: gentoo is better than that, it distributes the need for downloading over the life of the system... ie, you only download what you need |
| 00:36.13 | decriptor | I can't wait until air switch works again |
| 00:36.22 | kryptik | yup |
| 00:36.25 | decriptor | that's really nice |
| 00:36.33 | kryptik | first phase is in like two more weeks |
| 00:36.40 | kryptik | just intime for christmas |
| 00:37.00 | decriptor | I might have to download it from somewhere else |
| 00:37.07 | decriptor | where there is a faster connection |
| 00:37.16 | kryptik | I can get it and burn it for you |
| 00:37.33 | kryptik | if you want |
| 00:37.40 | decriptor | that is another reason for using slack I already have the iso |
| 00:37.49 | decriptor | that's why I said redhat or slack |
| 00:38.03 | kryptik | I have both so... |
| 00:38.15 | kryptik | if you want. I can give em to you |
| 00:38.24 | decriptor | so for gentoo I just download phase one |
| 00:38.29 | han_solo | decriptor: i have a debian cd you can have if you wan |
| 00:38.29 | decriptor | and then I should be able to install it |
| 00:38.42 | decriptor | I've never tried debian |
| 00:38.43 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: yes |
| 00:38.51 | decriptor | that would be cool |
| 00:39.47 | decriptor | I have a lot of distros at my house the only problem is that I got them at a linux expo over two years ago so they are all old |
| 00:40.00 | kryptik | hmm |
| 00:40.06 | kryptik | where was the linux expo |
| 00:40.12 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: i also have the 1.4 live cd for gentoo, the iso for it is only 223MB |
| 00:40.12 | decriptor | New York |
| 00:40.24 | kryptik | cool |
| 00:40.35 | kryptik | i would go but I am poor |
| 00:40.42 | kryptik | so I hold my own.. |
| 00:40.44 | kryptik | heh |
| 00:40.58 | decriptor | I was thinking of going to linuxcentral and grabbing some distros but it seems to be limited |
| 00:41.13 | decriptor | the linux expo in NY is great |
| 00:41.15 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: but you can get away with only a 10MB d/l for that stage 1 install... |
| 00:41.24 | decriptor | really that's it |
| 00:41.28 | kryptik | hmm |
| 00:41.51 | kryptik | that is an hour download for dial up |
| 00:41.55 | brailsmt_ | i first installed gentoo by mounting the 10MB iso on my mandrake system and installing from there... |
| 00:42.05 | decriptor | that seems like the kernel and nothing else |
| 00:42.06 | brailsmt_ | 10MB == an hour? |
| 00:42.13 | kryptik | i was joking |
| 00:42.20 | decriptor | no even 45 |
| 00:42.26 | decriptor | I got a 30 mb in 2 hours |
| 00:42.32 | kryptik | it seems like it and you can get it in under a half hour |
| 00:42.48 | brailsmt_ | gentoo will install a very minimal system at the start... |
| 00:42.53 | decriptor | I downloaded the 2.5.50 kernel and was so excited and then it wouldn't compile |
| 00:42.55 | kryptik | hmm. |
| 00:42.58 | kryptik | heh |
| 00:43.42 | brailsmt_ | it will bootstrap and then install a kernel, then install the fs, then a few utilities, and then you are done, and ready to install whatever else you want... |
| 00:43.46 | kryptik | Hey who is the guy that is trying to get his software out on the market.. |
| 00:43.54 | kryptik | here at PLUG |
| 00:44.21 | kryptik | heh |
| 00:44.34 | decriptor | I want to start my own company |
| 00:44.39 | brailsmt_ | me too |
| 00:44.46 | decriptor | in what feild |
| 00:44.56 | kryptik | nah, there was a guy at PLUG not last time, but the time before who was talking about his own software, writen in php |
| 00:45.04 | brailsmt_ | software design/engineering |
| 00:45.08 | kryptik | yay |
| 00:45.10 | kryptik | me too |
| 00:45.53 | decriptor | I'm looking basically the same thing |
| 00:46.02 | decriptor | I just have to get through college first |
| 00:46.12 | kryptik | ahh, and what languages would you use? |
| 00:46.25 | kryptik | heh |
| 00:46.29 | brailsmt_ | kryptik: ruby |
| 00:46.37 | brailsmt_ | ruby, ruby and some more ruby |
| 00:46.40 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 00:46.43 | kryptik | Hmm I cant get rub to work |
| 00:46.47 | kryptik | ruby* |
| 00:46.49 | decriptor | ruby? |
| 00:46.55 | kryptik | japanese language |
| 00:46.57 | brailsmt_ | www.ruby-lang.org |
| 00:47.15 | decriptor | what kind of language is it |
| 00:47.15 | brailsmt_ | kryptik: that is a good mis-description... |
| 00:47.23 | kryptik | what is? |
| 00:47.27 | kryptik | oo |
| 00:47.37 | brailsmt_ | it is an interpreted OO scripting language |
| 00:47.41 | decriptor | oh |
| 00:47.50 | kryptik | i used small oo's |
| 00:47.51 | decriptor | similar to c++ ? |
| 00:47.55 | kryptik | kinda |
| 00:47.57 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: not really |
| 00:48.11 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: similar in that it has objects |
| 00:48.12 | decriptor | all I kind of know is c and some bash |
| 00:48.20 | han_solo | ruby rocks |
| 00:48.24 | kryptik | well knowing c will help |
| 00:48.26 | decriptor | that's what made think that |
| 00:48.38 | decriptor | what is ruby used for |
| 00:48.43 | brailsmt_ | you can easily write ruby extensions in C |
| 00:48.48 | kryptik | hmmm |
| 00:48.55 | kryptik | what do I do after download |
| 00:48.58 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: anything perl is used for |
| 00:49.06 | kryptik | perl is cool too |
| 00:49.11 | han_solo | and more |
| 00:49.18 | han_solo | 'cuz it's oo |
| 00:49.27 | kryptik | han_solo like what |
| 00:49.35 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: I use ruby to script vim, and in anywhere that I used to use bash... |
| 00:49.44 | decriptor | oh |
| 00:49.45 | kryptik | hmm |
| 00:50.06 | kryptik | What should I do after it is downloaded. |
| 00:50.12 | han_solo | kryptik: like my AI class projects |
| 00:50.25 | kryptik | no way!? i bet that is a blast |
| 00:50.49 | decriptor | oh so does it replace perl |
| 00:50.54 | kryptik | NO |
| 00:50.57 | decriptor | in a way |
| 00:51.05 | kryptik | nuh uh |
| 00:51.07 | decriptor | man there are too many languages |
| 00:51.11 | kryptik | heh |
| 00:51.13 | brailsmt_ | i use ruby quite a bit for writing guis, then I write a C wrapper to connect the gui to my c++ code... |
| 00:51.22 | decriptor | oh |
| 00:51.29 | kryptik | hmm |
| 00:51.35 | kryptik | I wish I knew how to right guis |
| 00:51.43 | kryptik | everyone tells me to learn visual c |
| 00:51.47 | kryptik | but I dont want to... |
| 00:51.54 | kryptik | maybe I will anyways. |
| 00:51.56 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: yes, rubys aim is to be a better scripting language than perl/python/etc... |
| 00:52.05 | decriptor | that's cool |
| 00:52.15 | decriptor | I was thinking about learning perl after c |
| 00:52.25 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: in fact it incorporates a lot of the best stuff from the best languages around... |
| 00:52.53 | kryptik | well all languages are the best of others, nowadays |
| 00:53.08 | decriptor | I want to learn c and learn some other language since it seems that a look of stuff is based off of c |
| 00:53.09 | kryptik | php for example |
| 00:53.10 | brailsmt_ | kryptik: yeah, they all claim to be... |
| 00:53.16 | brailsmt_ | php is a hack |
| 00:53.21 | kryptik | whatever |
| 00:53.25 | brailsmt_ | i use eruby instead of php |
| 00:53.39 | kryptik | for webdevelopment? |
| 00:53.43 | brailsmt_ | yes |
| 00:53.54 | kryptik | and its called eruby? |
| 00:53.55 | brailsmt_ | not that I do much web stuff |
| 00:54.01 | decriptor | you can use ruby instead of php so this is basically a language to replace a bunch of other languages |
| 00:54.03 | brailsmt_ | kryptik: yes |
| 00:54.13 | brailsmt_ | decriptor: yes |
| 00:54.17 | kryptik | well I can code some serious shiz in php real fast so... |
| 00:54.24 | decriptor | interesting what do you think about c# |
| 00:54.36 | kryptik | ouch it is sharp |
| 00:54.46 | kryptik | I dont ever think I will use it |
| 00:54.52 | brailsmt_ | but the downside of ruby is that it is a fairly new language, and so it doesn't have the module support of perl |
| 00:54.57 | decriptor | I'm pretty anti microsoft |
| 00:55.03 | kryptik | arnt we all |
| 00:55.13 | brailsmt_ | i here that c# is a pretty good language |
| 00:55.17 | decriptor | oh that's what happens in the beginning of everything |
| 00:55.21 | kryptik | really!? |
| 00:55.33 | kryptik | I have heard both sides, but more bad than good |
| 00:55.39 | brailsmt_ | yeah, but I am not jumping on the bandwagon, I have used it so I can't comment first hand |
| 00:55.53 | brailsmt_ | i mean I haven't used it |
| 00:56.04 | decriptor | really microsoft made something that works |
| 00:57.08 | han_solo | brailsmt_: that's an advantage for people like us that want to leave a mark. :) |
| 00:57.09 | kryptik | Oh ok , you had me confused. |
| 00:57.09 | brailsmt_ | i have heard that it is better than java for instance... |
| 00:57.09 | kryptik | Oh no.. I like java |
| 00:57.09 | brailsmt_ | not that that is particularly hard though... |
| 00:57.09 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 00:57.09 | brailsmt_ | i used to really like java |
| 00:57.09 | brailsmt_ | then I learned c++ |
| 00:57.09 | kryptik | Im still learning c |
| 00:57.10 | kryptik | and c++ |
| 00:57.13 | brailsmt_ | i really like c++ until I learned ruby |
| 00:57.25 | kryptik | win2000 isnt that bad of an os |
| 00:57.27 | brailsmt_ | han_solo: well said :) |
| 00:57.44 | brailsmt_ | i even liked perl until I learned ruby |
| 00:57.51 | decriptor | win2k bits the big one |
| 00:58.03 | decriptor | sounds like I should learn ruby |
| 00:58.03 | kryptik | I like it. |
| 00:58.07 | kryptik | me too. |
| 00:58.08 | kryptik | heh |
| 00:58.15 | decriptor | at work it would crash when we printed |
| 00:58.20 | brailsmt_ | i liked win2k until I learned ruby :) |
| 00:58.34 | decriptor | sounds like ruby is a drug |
| 00:58.37 | kryptik | heh |
| 00:58.38 | brailsmt_ | lol |
| 00:58.43 | kryptik | heh |
| 00:58.48 | brailsmt_ | i liked win2k until i used it |
| 00:58.50 | kryptik | man that ruby is a killer |
| 00:58.52 | kryptik | lol |
| 00:59.15 | decriptor | what is everyone studying or has studied |
| 00:59.30 | decriptor | he's been infected |
| 00:59.53 | brailsmt_ | www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/talks/introruby/introruby.htm |
| 01:00.10 | kryptik | I love the internet |
| 01:00.12 | brailsmt_ | that is a nice intro to what ruby is, and what it can do... |
| 01:00.28 | kryptik | do you compile it |
| 01:00.40 | brailsmt_ | and it is by the authors of "The Pragmatic Programmer", which should be required reading of CS students, IMO |
| 01:00.49 | brailsmt_ | kryptik: no, you don't compile the internet |
| 01:00.56 | kryptik | oh duh. my bad. |
| 01:01.01 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 01:01.04 | kryptik | heh |
| 01:01.23 | brailsmt_ | atm, ruby does not have a compiler, but it is planned for the 2.0 release of ruby... |
| 01:01.32 | kryptik | oh ok. |
| 01:01.46 | decriptor | so everyone here is working on CS or is there anyone that has or is doing engineering |
| 01:01.59 | kryptik | what is CS |
| 01:02.02 | brailsmt_ | there are some that are engineering |
| 01:02.04 | brailsmt_ | Computer Science |
| 01:02.09 | kryptik | OH... |
| 01:02.11 | kryptik | college |
| 01:02.24 | decriptor | I'm planning on doing electrical engineering |
| 01:02.30 | decriptor | so I was looking for advice |
| 01:02.34 | kryptik | hmm |
| 01:02.35 | brailsmt_ | i was an EE major once... |
| 01:02.46 | decriptor | it seems that everyone was once |
| 01:02.50 | kryptik | quote "once..." |
| 01:03.18 | decriptor | I'm looking at a Phd in EE is it that hard |
| 01:03.21 | brailsmt_ | my major path: CS -> EE -> EE, Math -> <Mission> -> Psychology, Math -> Pyschology -> CS |
| 01:03.33 | brailsmt_ | i shoudl have stayed put with CS in the first place :) |
| 01:03.34 | decriptor | wow |
| 01:03.40 | decriptor | where did you go on your mission |
| 01:03.46 | brailsmt_ | Chile |
| 01:03.50 | decriptor | cool |
| 01:03.56 | decriptor | I had a friend that went there |
| 01:03.56 | kryptik | Heh, my teacher brags about chile |
| 01:04.08 | brailsmt_ | and when I got back I thought that EE was too worldly, so I went for a more noble profession... |
| 01:04.09 | decriptor | I went to italy |
| 01:04.23 | kryptik | yay, I know a guy who went to italy |
| 01:04.52 | brailsmt_ | then I had kids and realized that I would make more money with a BSCS than a Pysch PhD |
| 01:05.18 | brailsmt_ | and one of the two required less school |
| 01:05.20 | decriptor | what do you mean that EE was too worldly |
| 01:05.21 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 01:05.37 | decriptor | that will help a decission |
| 01:05.59 | brailsmt_ | meaning, that I was riding a mission spiritual high, and anything that didn't directly help my fellow humans be better, was beneath me :) |
| 01:06.31 | decriptor | I'm sure there has to be a way to help people through a EE |
| 01:06.33 | brailsmt_ | it means the logic was fundamentally flawed |
| 01:07.19 | decriptor | I've thought that through owning my own company I could help people financialy |
| 01:07.37 | decriptor | I guess that is my rationalization |
| 01:07.41 | decriptor | (sp?) |
| 01:07.44 | brailsmt_ | well, then I realized my mission here is to take care of my family, and that had to take precedence over help others, since there is no compensation for failure iun the home, at least that is how I see it... |
| 01:08.00 | decriptor | that is so true |
| 01:08.37 | decriptor | that is one of the things that I have thought of I'm not married yet so I don't fulling understand it |
| 01:08.45 | brailsmt_ | so my job as a dad is to make sure my own kids grow up well grounded, and that can happen whether I am a PhD in pysch or a BSCS... |
| 01:09.01 | decriptor | this is true |
| 01:09.19 | decriptor | but you can still do it with EE my home ward was mostly EE people |
| 01:09.43 | decriptor | my grandfather was one and my dad and uncle are |
| 01:10.07 | decriptor | although people tend to try and talk me out of it |
| 01:10.26 | decriptor | where did you go to school |
| 01:10.27 | brailsmt_ | and my dad told me in a phone conversation that, if I want to help other ppl, then somewhere along the line I may get the chance to counsel ppl as a bishop... |
| 01:10.34 | brailsmt_ | i thought that was pretty good advice... |
| 01:10.42 | decriptor | that is |
| 01:11.38 | decriptor | the one thing about being a EE and having lots of money is that I can serve a couple mission |
| 01:12.07 | brailsmt_ | EE is good, if you're a hardware head :) |
| 01:12.24 | brailsmt_ | if am not |
| 01:12.29 | brailsmt_ | s/if/i |
| 01:12.31 | decriptor | I'd go more into the software stuff though |
| 01:13.20 | brailsmt_ | i like the whole process of making software, it is very dynamic, no two projects are the same, it is a challenge, and it is fun |
| 01:13.33 | decriptor | yeah this true |
| 01:13.48 | brailsmt_ | and the field really didn't taken hold until about a decade ago... |
| 01:14.00 | brailsmt_ | so it is pretty new... |
| 01:14.04 | decriptor | my dad is working on something interesting the H.323 stack protocol |
| 01:14.31 | brailsmt_ | dangit, I am supposed to be working on this mandelbrot implementation... :| |
| 01:14.55 | decriptor | what is this mandelbrot implementation |
| 01:14.58 | brailsmt_ | nice chatting, but I gotta get to work, cya later |
| 01:15.02 | brailsmt_ | madelbrot set |
| 01:15.06 | brailsmt_ | fractals |
| 01:15.23 | decriptor | have fun |
| 01:15.23 | brailsmt_ | i have to code up a mandelbrot set implementation for my graphics class |
| 01:15.46 | decriptor | don't really know what that is |
| 01:15.46 | brailsmt_ | debugging rarely is... :| |
| 01:15.59 | brailsmt_ | google for it, and you will see a few |
| 01:16.07 | decriptor | don't feel bad my dad's code is 100 of 1000 of lines |
| 01:16.12 | decriptor | ok |
| 01:28.26 | *** join/#utah brailsmt (~michael@12-254-226-160.client.attbi.com) |
| 01:58.13 | *** part/#utah decriptor (~decriptor@02-087.054.popsite.net) |
| 02:00.48 | han_solo | what are the gotchas when looking for a cdrw drive? |
| 02:13.48 | brailsmt_ | han_solo: none, afaik... so long as it is supports scsi, which is all cdrws that I know of, then it will work... |
| 02:14.00 | brailsmt_ | but beware, I am no expert... |
| 02:15.39 | han_solo | all cdrw's you know of are scsi support? as in emulation or what? most I've ssn are atapi |
| 02:17.21 | brailsmt_ | yeah, emulation... my cdrw/dvd drive for instance, I could access cdroms just fine with ide, but when I passed "hdc=ide-scsi" to the kernel, then I could read, write cds and read dvds... |
| 02:17.50 | han_solo | yeah, my cdrom works fine under scsi emulation |
| 02:17.55 | brailsmt_ | it is an ide bus, but all the burning stuff is done via scsi emu... |
| 02:18.07 | brailsmt_ | s/bus/device |
| 02:18.43 | brailsmt_ | and my cdrw/dvd drive is an el cheapo one too... |
| 02:20.30 | han_solo | where did you get it, how much? |
| 02:21.05 | brailsmt | it came with the laptop, and the laptop is full of VIA chips and cards... |
| 02:21.14 | brailsmt | and VIA is cheap... |
| 02:22.03 | brailsmt | 0,0,0 0) 'MATSHITA' 'UJDA730 DVD/CDRW' '1.02' Removable CD-ROM |
| 02:22.11 | brailsmt | that is the device in question... |
| 02:37.54 | han_solo | so I'm looking at about $50 for a cheap cdrw, am I not looking in the right places or does that sound about right? |
| 02:39.59 | brailsmt_ | i was looking a few months ago and the cheapest I found then was $69 after rebates... |
| 02:41.35 | han_solo | well, at newegg there's one for 47 with $4 fedex shiping |
| 02:42.11 | han_solo | and the 2 user reviews are both very positive. one gave 4 out of 5 stars because it didn't match his case in color. the other 5 out of 5. I know two people isn't much to go on statistically |
| 02:42.23 | han_solo | but if it works I'm happy |
| 02:44.33 | brailsmt_ | search google for that particular drive to see if anyone has that drive and uses it with linux... |
| 02:44.50 | brailsmt_ | thats how I found out my laptop worked with linux... :) |
| 02:51.29 | han_solo | don't see anything on google, good or bad, other than the manufacturer's site saying it works in linux |
| 02:52.15 | brailsmt | han_solo: at least the manufacturer knows about linux, that is encouraging :) |
| 02:53.41 | han_solo | yeah. always like to patronize people that actually acknowledge it |
| 02:54.01 | han_solo | they even provide a dos driver. so the manufacturer is on the ball at least |
| 02:54.34 | brailsmt | there are three possibilities when buying cheapo hardware... |
| 02:54.39 | brailsmt | 1) it is old |
| 02:54.45 | brailsmt | 2) it is crap |
| 02:54.59 | brailsmt | 3) the company is an up and comer and is trying to break into the market... |
| 02:55.07 | brailsmt | :) |
| 02:56.00 | brailsmt | you know what operator= and operator+= should return? I always get it confused... it is void and modify the receiver directly, or return a new object? |
| 03:03.13 | han_solo | dunno |
| 03:03.44 | brailsmt | i think they should return the receiver... |
| 03:03.47 | brailsmt | i think... |
| 04:06.00 | *** join/#utah brailsmt (~michael@12-254-226-160.client.attbi.com) |
| 04:47.59 | *** join/#utah kryptik (kryptik@208.187.113.39) |
| 04:48.45 | brailsmt | any c++ programers in here? I cannot overload operator= for a class of mine for some reason... |
| 04:48.54 | brailsmt | ComplexNumber & ComplexNumber::operator=(ComplexNumber & compl) { |
| 04:48.54 | brailsmt | } |
| 04:49.20 | brailsmt | crap... |
| 04:49.24 | brailsmt | this is not my night... |
| 04:50.16 | han_solo | oh, you were talking about c++? |
| 04:50.33 | brailsmt | ComplexNumber & ComplexNumber::operator=(ComplexNumber & compl) { |
| 04:50.33 | brailsmt | this->real = compl.real; |
| 04:50.33 | brailsmt | this->imaginary = compl.imaginary; |
| 04:50.33 | brailsmt | return *this; |
| 04:50.33 | brailsmt | } |
| 04:50.40 | brailsmt | that does not compile... |
| 04:50.58 | brailsmt | complex.cpp|31| parse error before `)' token |
| 04:50.58 | brailsmt | complex.cpp|31| `ComplexNumber& ComplexNumber::operator=(...)' must take exactly one argument |
| 04:51.01 | brailsmt | complex.cpp|31| prototype for `ComplexNumber& ComplexNumber::operator=(...)' does not match any in class `ComplexNumber' |
| 04:51.05 | brailsmt | complex.h|22| candidate is: ComplexNumber& ComplexNumber::operator=(const ComplexNumber&) |
| 04:51.07 | brailsmt | those are the errors i am getting... |
| 04:51.26 | brailsmt | i have no operator=(...) method... |
| 04:51.35 | han_solo | from a book: const Array &operator=(const Array&); |
| 04:51.43 | brailsmt | only operator=(ComplexNumber &) |
| 04:51.58 | brailsmt | const before it? |
| 04:52.19 | brailsmt | but I am changing the receiver... |
| 04:52.27 | han_solo | yeah |
| 04:52.33 | han_solo | and it might not go in the class |
| 04:53.06 | brailsmt | same errors... |
| 04:54.43 | kryptik | I am starting to... your blowing me out of here though.. I thought :: was perl only! |
| 04:55.22 | han_solo | from the book, for a class called String: |
| 04:55.34 | han_solo | const String &String::operator=(const String &right) |
| 04:55.38 | han_solo | { |
| 04:55.38 | han_solo | ... |
| 04:55.46 | han_solo | return *this; // enables cascaded assignments |
| 04:55.50 | han_solo | } |
| 04:55.56 | kryptik | ??? |
| 04:56.08 | han_solo | in the ... section, it sets itself to a copy of the string passed in. |
| 04:56.52 | han_solo | rather, sets its attributes (with a helper function) |
| 04:57.06 | han_solo | what's complex.cpp line 31? |
| 04:58.26 | han_solo | brailsmt, did you set put const in both places? |
| 04:58.48 | brailsmt | yes |
| 04:58.50 | han_solo | at the beginnning, and in the parenthesis. also in the .h and .cpp files? |
| 04:59.02 | han_solo | weird. |
| 04:59.38 | han_solo | well, I get to go to bed now. good luck. you could always resort to a setter method |
| 06:43.34 | *** join/#utah brailsmt (~michael@12-254-226-160.client.attbi.com) |
| 07:14.19 | kryptik | time for a caffiene jolt |
| 07:14.22 | kryptik | ... |
| 07:19.10 | kryptik | ehh... sunny d will have to do... |
| 13:07.39 | *** join/#utah han_solo (~fugalh@byu074851wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 15:46.51 | *** join/#utah CosmicPenguin ([PaiBQaoNK@cosmic.censoft.com) |
| 16:02.05 | han_solo | anyone make audio cds in linux? |
| 16:03.42 | levi | I've burned audio CDs in linux before, if that's what you mean. |
| 16:04.38 | han_solo | I have some wavs I want to make into an audio cd. is that fairly straightforward with, say, xcdroast? |
| 16:04.52 | *** join/#utah fozz (~fozz@12-255-9-5.client.attbi.com) |
| 16:05.21 | han_solo | or do I need to do something first to make an iso or something? |
| 16:05.51 | han_solo | (if it's possible I'll figure out how with the docs) |
| 16:09.30 | han_solo | brb |
| 16:13.39 | *** join/#utah han_solo (~fugalh@byu074851wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 17:01.40 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@dsl233.sisna.com) |
| 17:37.58 | *** join/#utah han_solo (~fugalh@trident.cs.byu.edu) |
| 18:29.43 | *** join/#utah HarleyPig (~harleypig@208.186.180.38) |
| 19:28.19 | *** join/#utah BZFlag (timr@rikers.org) |
| 19:28.50 | *** mode/#Utah [+o BZFlag] by ChanServ |
| 20:29.46 | *** join/#utah BZFlag (~timr@gk2-ext.lineo.com) |
| 20:30.17 | *** mode/#Utah [+o BZFlag] by ChanServ |
| 21:29.54 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (~bbeattie@cpe-66-1-180-69.ut.sprintbbd.net) |
| 21:34.22 | kryptik[work] | ahh, schools out. |
| 21:43.07 | *** join/#utah HarleyPig (~harleypig@208.186.180.38) |
| 21:47.45 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~jayce@pcp01404819pcs.potstn01.pa.comcast.net) |
| 21:59.23 | *** join/#utah brailsmt (~michael@128.187.254.17) |
| 22:14.45 | Jayce^ | heh... so we all going to plan to go to the 12:01 showing of Two Towers? |
| 22:16.37 | Jayce^ | get a good group together.. |
| 22:16.51 | Jayce^ | watch the special edition of LoTR in line.. |
| 22:17.43 | CosmicPenguin | I'm shooting for the 10:00 AM showing the next day - the whole office is going |
| 22:17.55 | Jayce^ | might do both :) |
| 22:21.48 | HarleyPig | I'm gonna have to wait until after the baby is born ... |
| 22:21.55 | Jayce^ | slacker! :) |
| 22:22.03 | HarleyPig | Suzanne might not appreciate my going to a movie and turning off my cell. :> |
| 22:22.13 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 22:23.46 | HarleyPig | Although ... the doctor is talking about inducing a week early ... on Friday 13th! w00t! |
| 22:23.58 | neybar | women have the strangest priorities... |
| 22:24.05 | HarleyPig | :] |
| 22:24.17 | HarleyPig | btw, I got twinview working. |
| 22:25.38 | Jayce^ | about time.. what was it? |
| 22:26.01 | HarleyPig | Bad card. |
| 22:26.43 | HarleyPig | Took the tech 30 minutes to test all the stuff I told him I'd allready done. |
| 22:27.15 | Jayce^ | hah.. |
| 22:27.31 | Jayce^ | very nice isn't it.. |
| 22:30.21 | HarleyPig | 'tis ... gonna have to explore its capabilities some more. |
| 22:33.14 | Jayce^ | can't live without the real estate any more |
| 22:37.45 | HarleyPig | I'm already hooked. |
| 23:31.17 | *** join/#utah han_solo (~fugalh@byu074851wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 23:49.51 | *** join/#utah Bonez39 (~sanchiro1@206.71.67.22) |
| 23:50.10 | Bonez39 | what's a good kernel channel, to discuss newer kernel compile issues? |
| 23:51.08 | han_solo | Bonez39: unless it's really in-depth probably here is plenty good. |
| 23:51.42 | CosmicPenguin | kernelnewbies on oftc is good too |
| 23:52.04 | han_solo | speaking of kernels, anyone know if there's compelling reason to go from 2.4.19 to 2.4.20? |
| 23:52.14 | CosmicPenguin | Nope |
| 23:52.19 | Bonez39 | well, I am trying to compile and run 2.4.20....it's not working though.... |
| 23:52.34 | Bonez39 | my compelling reason is to move to 2.4.20 from 2.4.2 |
| 23:52.36 | CosmicPenguin | In fact, under 2.4.20-ac1 my system keeps OOMing and crashing |
| 23:52.48 | Bonez39 | what is OOM? |
| 23:52.52 | CosmicPenguin | Out Of Memory |
| 23:53.30 | CosmicPenguin | The kernel (tries) to be kind, and kill the programs that are using up too much memory (or at least, the ones that are allocating the most memory) |
| 23:54.07 | CosmicPenguin | On my system, there seems to be a memory leak in the kernel, so the kernel progressively kills off all my programs |
| 23:54.16 | CosmicPenguin | s/programs/processes/ |
| 23:54.21 | Bonez39 | and this is with the 2.4.20 kernel? |
| 23:54.33 | Bonez39 | what is -ac1? |
| 23:55.22 | Bonez39 | I figure if I keep trying....and recompiling, and patching til I get it right..my effort might eventually fly... |
| 23:55.42 | han_solo | Bonez39: can you live with 2.4.19? that might be a better shot |
| 23:56.11 | Bonez39 | how critical are errors like this: via-pmu.c:36: asm/prom.h: No such file or directory |
| 23:56.11 | Bonez39 | via-pmu.c:37: asm/machdep.h: No such file or directory |
| 23:56.11 | Bonez39 | via-pmu.c:41: asm/sections.h: No such file or directory |
| 23:56.30 | Bonez39 | well, I suppose I can live with 2.4.19.... |
| 23:57.04 | han_solo | only because CosmicPenguin is the only person I've heard using 2.4.20 and he's having trouble |
| 23:57.07 | Bonez39 | here are a few other error messages: /home/scott/kernel/linux-2.4.20/.hdepend:1019: warning: overriding commands for |
| 23:57.08 | Bonez39 | target `/home/scott/kernel/linux-2.4.20/include/linux/kbd_kern.h' |
| 23:57.08 | Bonez39 | /home/scott/kernel/linux-2.4.20/.hdepend:1019: warning: ignoring old commands for target `/home/scott/kernel/linux-2.4.20/include/linux/kbd_kern.h' |
| 23:57.53 | Bonez39 | finally, I get: {standard input}: Assembler messages: |
| 23:57.54 | Bonez39 | {standard input}:342: Fatal error: Symbol mhi_void_hook already defined. |
| 23:57.54 | Bonez39 | make[1]: *** [mki.o] Error 1 |
| 23:57.54 | Bonez39 | make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/scott/kernel/linux-2.4.20/arch/i386/mki' |
| 23:57.54 | Bonez39 | make: *** [_dir_arch/i386/mki] Error 2 |
| 23:58.01 | Bonez39 | I promise no more messages... |
| 23:59.24 | Bonez39 | han_solo: so what you are saying is that perhaps, I haven't been able to compile it correctly....that there are bugs in the kernel source...disallowing the compile to proceed correctly? |
| 23:59.50 | han_solo | Bonez39: that is possible. not as likely with a 2.4 kernel, but I know that's why I can't get 2.5 to compile |