| 01:03:35 | han_solo | hey brailsmt, I tried waimea today |
| 01:03:40 | brailsmt | yeah? |
| 01:03:51 | han_solo | looks cool, slick. like the slit/dock/whatever |
| 01:03:59 | brailsmt | slit? |
| 01:04:48 | han_solo | blackbox term for the dock. Things like gkrellm can sit in the slit too though, so more general than windowmaker. man page looks real configurable, but what do you do for quick launch? |
| 01:04:49 | han_solo | i.e. like the dock in windowmaker. If i want mozilla I double-click mozilla, if it's open it takes me to that desktop, if it's not it starts it up. |
| 01:05:02 | han_solo | i like menus, but not for my frequently-used apps |
| 01:05:14 | han_solo | (and real frequently used ones I have keyboard shortcuts) |
| 01:05:19 | brailsmt | yeah, they don't have anything like the clip in wmaker |
| 01:05:39 | brailsmt | but I never ever used the clip anyway... |
| 01:05:53 | han_solo | reminded me a lot of fluxbox |
| 01:06:05 | brailsmt | i launch all my apps from the cmd line |
| 01:06:29 | brailsmt | i guess I am a cli junkie :) |
| 01:06:37 | han_solo | that gets hairy when you forget to add & :) and apps that spit lots of junk out on stdout/err... and those stupid gtk font warnings |
| 01:07:29 | brailsmt | yeah, but I tend to use 1 app per desktop (plus the term) so I usually just have the app sitting on top of the term and I never see the dumb warnings... |
| 01:09:26 | brailsmt | but you have a good point, and it is one that used to bother me... |
| 01:09:26 | brailsmt | ...then I just learned to ignore it, I guess |
| 01:10:31 | han_solo | I'm less efficient, I have lots of terminals hanging around and apps, I have big apps like mozilla on their own page (but then open satellite terminals to do stuff where I need to see the web page) |
| 01:10:43 | brailsmt | how can I bounce mail with procmail? say I get lots of spam and I want to bounce it instead of sending it to /dev/null, can I do that with just procmail, or do I need to configure qmail? |
| 01:10:48 | han_solo | but everything else is something like my desk. :) |
| 01:11:12 | han_solo | you can do it with procmail, if nothing else by piping it through sendmail or whatever MTA you have |
| 01:11:27 | han_solo | or mutt for that matter |
| 01:11:30 | brailsmt | my desk is a complete mess... open books and papers with jotted notes all over the place... :) |
| 01:12:00 | brailsmt | not to mention cables running all over the place... |
| 01:14:31 | han_solo | actually, I have decided to call this spare bedroom with computer stuff the 'studio' since I have a synthesizer in here now |
| 02:20:03 | Jayce^ | that's like me calling my unfinished basement the 'office' since I work down here.. |
| 02:50:37 | han_solo | :) |
| 03:16:43 | han_solo | http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Hans%20The%20Devourer |
| 03:24:25 | Jayce^ | oohhhhh k.. |
| 03:31:49 | han_solo | http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DrBrain for more info |
| 03:53:27 | neybar | I seem to be missing a brain... |
| 03:56:52 | han_solo | buwahaha |
| 05:19:43 | brailsmt | that link reminds of an X Files episode I saw once... |
| 14:18:54 | cosmic_isgone | is back (gone 15:02:27) |
| 19:32:33 | Jayce^ | another day, another name for hans.. |
| 19:36:49 | fugalh_ | I know who my true friends are when they know all my nicks |
| 19:38:18 | Jayce^ | is glad *he's* not schizophrenic like some people.. |
| 19:44:42 | Jayce | makes fun of Jayce^ |
| 19:45:06 | Jayce^ | slaps Jayce with a 50lb Unix manual |
| 19:45:14 | Jayce | grabs the manual and runs |
| 20:06:09 | han_solo | http://axon.cs.byu.edu/~randy/gen/Remerge.pdf <- good paper on merging |
| 20:08:23 | CosmicPenguin | What, like on I15 when the HOV lane ends? |
| 20:08:42 | han_solo | no, much more complicated than that. :) merging genealogical databases. |
| 20:09:06 | han_solo | perhaps less frustrating in that a mistake won't leave your car totaled and your neck broken |
| 20:09:51 | han_solo | dreams of being able to transfer a program running on one display (say at home) to another display (say at work) through ssh |
| 20:10:10 | Jayce^ | yeah, kinda like screen, but for gui apps right?? |
| 20:10:15 | han_solo | right |
| 20:10:27 | Jayce^ | I was just thinking this morning again of how badly I want that.. |
| 20:10:45 | han_solo | wonder if anyone over at Xfree has gotten that idea |
| 20:11:02 | han_solo | if you could change displays for a program, the ssh portion would be trivial |
| 20:11:03 | CosmicPenguin | That would be tough |
| 20:11:06 | han_solo | if not automatic |
| 20:11:22 | Jayce^ | looking at that paper.. and remembering the "handprint" alg we were using at OGF (onegreatfamily) |
| 20:11:49 | han_solo | i badmouthed OGF in my ethics class the other day |
| 20:12:02 | Jayce^ | oh yeah... I'd love to hear that... they deserve it.. |
| 20:12:09 | CosmicPenguin | Each program would have to have to know how to transfer the display - I don't think the server could do it for them |
| 20:12:26 | han_solo | it was just a quick comment about how they wouldn't take my personal info off |
| 20:12:26 | Jayce^ | actually, just certain people... although most everybody left because of those aforementioned people.. |
| 20:12:37 | Jayce^ | only donny hasn't given up, and that's because of his financial stake.. |
| 20:13:01 | Jayce^ | because they *can't*... they could.. but now they can't.. |
| 20:13:17 | han_solo | how so? |
| 20:14:30 | Jayce^ | morons.. they are losing control of their own data... I dont' know the current state (left a while ago).. but when they were partnering with satan^H^H^Hmicrosoft they were going to be sharing a bit of the db.. and also were having trouble working out how to store the versions of data, so you could remove levels of it.. |
| 20:15:22 | han_solo | so now personal info about me is not only on their public website but in micro$oft's databases? great. |
| 20:15:27 | levi | Have you guys looked at xmove? |
| 20:15:35 | Jayce^ | xmove? |
| 20:15:37 | han_solo | levi: no, what is that? |
| 20:15:52 | levi | It's an X proxy for... moving X sessions between displays. :) |
| 20:16:44 | Jayce^ | han_solo: when I worked there, they were trying to have me get passport working.. back then a) didnt' work on freebsd, which is what our servers were. Plus you had to key your database according to the passport db, plus you had to allow at all time remote, unrestricted access to microsoft to your database, along with providing schema documentation.. |
| 20:16:44 | han_solo | wow. |
| 20:16:47 | han_solo | is apt-getting it now |
| 20:17:19 | Jayce^ | dont' see it on freshmeat.. |
| 20:18:16 | Jayce^ | found the site... gotta love the google.. |
| 20:18:29 | Bradipo | Not so sure about that anymore. |
| 20:18:40 | Bradipo | Now that google is censoring what they index. |
| 20:19:26 | Jayce^ | by law |
| 20:19:29 | han_solo | xmove looks pretty cool. a few limitations but it might be usable |
| 20:19:45 | Bradipo | Yeah, not their fault I guess. |
| 20:20:02 | Jayce^ | they have been complaining like crazy about it.. |
| 20:20:09 | levi | Google is not censoring, foreign governments are censoring and google is complying with the law. |
| 20:20:26 | Jayce^ | and only within that domain |
| 20:20:36 | Bradipo | I suppose that the german and french governments dictate how .fr and .de are to be used then? |
| 20:20:42 | levi | I hate how people are blowing that all out of proportion. |
| 20:21:35 | Bradipo | What if google.fr and google.de aren't even hosted in those countries? |
| 20:22:26 | Bradipo | Maybe it is blown out of proportions. |
| 20:22:44 | Bradipo | I mean, not that I support nazism and similar institutions. |
| 20:24:07 | Jayce^ | considers having somebody show off xmove at plug.. |
| 20:24:12 | Jayce^ | that's cool.. |
| 20:24:24 | Jayce^ | a mini-presentation at the beginning.. |
| 20:24:51 | Bradipo | xmove sounds like screen for X. |
| 20:25:03 | Bradipo | Just a virtual X. |
| 20:25:28 | han_solo | it doesn't seem like it can detach like screen does though, or am I missing that? |
| 20:25:34 | Bradipo | Hmm. |
| 20:25:47 | Bradipo | How else would you move between displays? |
| 20:26:17 | Bradipo | Detaching would be cool though. |
| 20:28:11 | Mecworks | BTW, it's bbeattie's birthday today! |
| 20:28:25 | han_solo | spanks bbeattie |
| 20:29:00 | bbeattie | :-) |
| 20:30:44 | Mecworks | wheels in the largest birthday cake you have ever seen on a large four-wheeled hand truck. It has several (to many to count) candels buring on it, dripping wax onto the icing. Your mouth begins to water. |
| 20:31:14 | CosmicPenguin | I love birthday Candels! |
| 20:33:26 | bbeattie | candles? :-) |
| 20:33:55 | Mecworks | Oops... |
| 20:33:57 | bbeattie | waits for Tux to jump out. |
| 20:34:02 | Mecworks | yea, that's right... |
| 20:34:35 | bbeattie | watches CosmicPenguin follow mecworks off the lemming cliff. |
| 20:34:54 | CosmicPenguin | Nah - candles are 8th century technology - Candels are future in birthday illuminance |
| 20:35:44 | CosmicPenguin | (feel free to insert a 'the' in that sentence... anywhere you want) |
| 20:35:45 | Mecworks | yea, their known as 'phiber-optik-candels' |
| 20:36:16 | bbeattie | blows them out with a pair of wire clippers. |
| 20:36:43 | bbeattie | Well, I'm off, happy irc'ing to all. |
| 20:36:49 | CosmicPenguin | hb |
| 20:37:10 | Mecworks | happy b day... |
| 20:39:02 | Mecworks | gets busy opening the presents that bbeattie left behind. Humming happily he pulls out a new scanner, 120meg harddrive and a new leatherman from the wrinkled heaps of wrapping paper lying next to the yet uneaten cake. |
| 20:41:19 | han_solo | pulls a new video card out from the frosting and runs |
| 21:09:09 | Kryptik | thinks about trying to stop han_solo but takes some cake and follows after him |
| 21:12:36 | Jayce^ | pokes around for another 512 ram.. |
| 21:12:45 | han_solo | 512k? |
| 21:12:50 | Jayce^ | mb |
| 21:12:56 | Jayce^ | either that or a zaurus |
| 21:13:33 | Kryptik | I havent seen it |
| 21:22:15 | han_solo | anyone here want to promote grub? |
| 21:22:40 | han_solo | i am listening to grub arguments in the next few minutes. |
| 21:22:54 | Kryptik | whats grub |
| 21:23:05 | han_solo | an alternate boot loader to lilo |
| 21:23:12 | CosmicPenguin | it is, by far, the greatest application ever invented for a computing device |
| 21:23:25 | CosmicPenguin | But seriously, folks, it is wicked cool.... |
| 21:23:34 | Jayce^ | never found any reason to use it over lilo.. |
| 21:23:36 | CosmicPenguin | I can't say enough good things about it exept for use it! use it now! |
| 21:23:48 | han_solo | i'm looking at a howto about it |
| 21:23:58 | CosmicPenguin | You don't have to update your boot loader to use it |
| 21:23:59 | Kryptik | ahh lilo eh? I had so much trouble with that when you used to have to configure it manually I would install caldera and then everytime I reboot it was gon |
| 21:24:01 | Kryptik | e |
| 21:24:17 | CosmicPenguin | You don't have to do anything to handle weird disk geometries |
| 21:24:22 | Kryptik | hmm |
| 21:24:28 | han_solo | the howto says you don't have to rerun it every time, but then it says run update-grub when you install a new kernel |
| 21:24:33 | CosmicPenguin | I'm sorry - you don't have to update your bootloader every time you change your kernel |
| 21:24:42 | han_solo | latest lilo has no problems with disk geometries that I know of |
| 21:24:50 | CosmicPenguin | Thats prolly just to update your script for a new kernel version |
| 21:24:57 | CosmicPenguin | han_solo: ever tried to run lilo on a compact flash? |
| 21:25:16 | han_solo | ok, got me there |
| 21:25:18 | CosmicPenguin | Plus, you it has a full command line of cool debug features |
| 21:25:52 | CosmicPenguin | I use it on all of my stuff (except for Disc On Chip... stupid M-Systems) |
| 21:27:17 | Jayce^ | has never needed to do that.. so never been a consideration for me.. |
| 21:30:11 | han_solo | so its only advantage is that you don't have to rerun it when you install a new kernel? |
| 21:30:54 | Kryptik | I have not had a need to change the kernel so... |
| 21:31:06 | Kryptik | but i guess if I never needed to or wanted to that would come in nice |
| 21:31:22 | CosmicPenguin | han_solo: well, thats more of a byproduct of the fact that it can read the filesystem and figure things out for its self |
| 21:31:55 | CosmicPenguin | Which, IMHO is a pretty cool thing. |
| 21:32:30 | han_solo | I guess I'm looking for an "I have used lilo forever, know its configuration format, and it doesn't give me any trouble, so what does grub offer me that should entice me to change" argument |
| 21:32:43 | CosmicPenguin | Flexibity... |
| 21:32:51 | han_solo | how so? |
| 21:34:32 | han_solo | (I don't cling to 'what I'm used to', but I like to know what benefits learning something new will give me before diving in) |
| 21:34:44 | CosmicPenguin | Its trival to learn |
| 21:34:47 | CosmicPenguin | if that matters |
| 21:35:08 | han_solo | doesn't look trivial to me. well, not like learning a new language or something |
| 21:35:09 | CosmicPenguin | but I would take a look at the GRUB manual online - that should give you the best idea of some of the things that you can do |
| 21:35:39 | CosmicPenguin | Trust me - I was in your same boat, I had half a dozen different projects running lilo, but once I got into grub, it was love at first sight |
| 21:35:40 | han_solo | the config format looks horrendous. |
| 21:35:46 | CosmicPenguin | its really not |
| 21:35:52 | CosmicPenguin | not nearly as bad as LILO |
| 21:36:03 | han_solo | hd(0,0)? why not /dev/hda ? |
| 21:36:22 | han_solo | but you're probably right, I'm just used to lilo's format. |
| 21:36:40 | han_solo | although that hd(0,0) stuff is definitely not principle of least surprise |
| 21:36:44 | CosmicPenguin | hd(0,0) because its not operating system specific - it is built for the HURD remember |
| 21:37:12 | | jayce^: wish i knew |
| 21:37:12 | Jayce^ | ibot: hurd? |
| 21:37:15 | han_solo | so is it pc architecture specific then? |
| 21:37:20 | Jayce^ | don't we all :) |
| 21:37:44 | CosmicPenguin | han_solo: no, its still only for the Intel |
| 21:38:21 | han_solo | do they plan to move to other architectures? |
| 21:38:42 | | OK, CosmicPenguin. |
| 21:38:42 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: The GNU Hurd is the GNU project's replacement for the Unix kernel. |
| 21:38:59 | | OK, CosmicPenguin. |
| 21:38:59 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: the GNU Herd is also http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html |
| 21:39:10 | Jayce^ | thinks of all sorts of other sarcastic things to add on to that :) |
| 21:39:17 | Jayce^ | s/Herd/Hurd/ |
| 21:39:22 | Kryptik | heh |
| 21:39:33 | | CosmicPenguin: I forgot gnu herd |
| 21:39:33 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: forget GNU Herd |
| 21:39:41 | | okay, CosmicPenguin. |
| 21:39:41 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: the GNU Hurd is also http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html |
| 21:39:55 | | i don't know, jayce^ |
| 21:39:55 | Jayce^ | ibot: Hurd? |
| 21:40:03 | | GNU Hurd is, like, the GNU project's replacement for the Unix kernel. or http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html |
| 21:40:03 | han_solo | ibot, GNU Hurd? |
| 21:40:03 | Kryptik | Im lost |
| 21:40:09 | Kryptik | herd? |
| 21:40:13 | Kryptik | hurd |
| 21:40:14 | Jayce^ | didnt' think it knew that. |
| 21:40:16 | | bugger all, i dunno, han_solo |
| 21:40:16 | han_solo | ibot, kryptik? |
| 21:40:23 | | OK, han_solo. |
| 21:40:23 | han_solo | ibot, kryptic is lost. |
| 21:40:30 | Kryptik | eh? |
| 21:40:33 | | I haven't seen 'kryptic', han_solo |
| 21:40:33 | han_solo | ibot, seen kryptic? |
| 21:40:36 | Jayce^ | Kryptik: just follow those links, it explains it... |
| 21:40:39 | | kryptik was last seen on #utah 9 seconds ago, saying: eh? [Thu Oct 24 15:40:30 2002] |
| 21:40:39 | han_solo | ibot, seen kryptik? |
| 21:40:55 | Kryptik | ok thanks |
| 21:41:08 | han_solo | one of these days I want to give the hurd a whirl |
| 21:41:29 | Kryptik | sounds like a amusement ride. |
| 21:42:42 | han_solo | what do you call the period of time between punch-in and punch-out (thinking of a class name) |
| 21:42:52 | CosmicPenguin | Anyway, without getting sidetracked, I still think the GRUB is very cool |
| 21:42:59 | Bradipo | work |
| 21:43:09 | CosmicPenguin | class OnClock { } |
| 21:43:18 | han_solo | more generic - could be tracking school projects or something else |
| 21:43:21 | han_solo | onclock might be good |
| 21:43:38 | han_solo | log maybe? |
| 21:43:49 | han_solo | timelog |
| 21:44:30 | CosmicPenguin | timelog->punch_in(); |
| 21:44:35 | CosmicPenguin | timelog->punch_out(); |
| 21:44:40 | CosmicPenguin | timelog->break(15); |
| 21:44:44 | CosmicPenguin | I like it! |
| 21:44:54 | han_solo | timelog->adjust(5hours, yesterday) |
| 21:45:18 | Jayce^ | $timelog->period('5 hours'); |
| 21:45:26 | CosmicPenguin | timelog->fired(); |
| 21:45:29 | han_solo | lol |
| 21:45:35 | han_solo | ok, timelog it is |
| 21:45:43 | Kryptik | heh |
| 21:46:15 | Kryptik | i like the punch out being followed by break |
| 21:48:20 | CosmicPenguin | Can you guess who the perl programmer is from reading the past 15 lines? |
| 21:48:52 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 21:49:03 | Jayce^ | I thought about it, and just had to add that.. |
| 22:04:52 | Kryptik | thekernel eh... I like |
| 22:05:26 | thekernel | It's also good for junk email aliases |
| 22:06:51 | thekernel | Anyone have any interesting projects going on? |
| 22:07:18 | thekernel | New tuxbox advances? Does homer still speak? |
| 22:07:49 | Kryptik | um I am trying to figure out a php script that finds and deletes html tages |
| 22:07:52 | Kryptik | tags |
| 22:08:21 | thekernel | I did a search and insert with html tags using sed the other day |
| 22:08:32 | Kryptik | whats sed |
| 22:09:08 | thekernel | man sed |
| 22:10:26 | Kryptik | I dont want to insert I want to find the <body> tag and delete everything before it... |
| 22:10:51 | thekernel | hrm... |
| 22:11:10 | Kryptik | it and everything before it |
| 22:12:17 | thekernel | Sounds like something someone would use perl for. Too bad I don't know perl |
| 22:12:31 | CosmicPenguin | ahh, nuts.... its thekernel |
| 22:12:37 | CosmicPenguin | looks around for the exit |
| 22:12:38 | thekernel | That's right |
| 22:12:51 | thekernel | Don't worry, you don't have to work with me any more |
| 22:13:02 | CosmicPenguin | homer still speaks, though |
| 22:13:13 | CosmicPenguin | I might even release some code that wasn't compile for 2.4.7 some day soon, you never know |
| 22:13:22 | thekernel | I hooked him back up last week |
| 22:13:34 | CosmicPenguin | I want another one, but they are very hard tofind |
| 22:13:49 | thekernel | I pulled him out of storage and he doesn't move now |
| 22:13:58 | Kryptik | I am learning perl right as we speek |
| 22:14:35 | CosmicPenguin | has visions of Number 5 leafing through books |
| 22:14:51 | CosmicPenguin | Or Trinity learning how to fly a helicopter |
| 22:15:01 | Kryptik | thats sweet though |
| 22:15:19 | Kryptik | thirty seconds to learn anything you want |
| 22:15:35 | thekernel | That long? |
| 22:15:52 | Kryptik | it was faster though like five secs |
| 22:16:15 | thekernel | CosmicPenguin: I'm getting something strange when I run kdm. |
| 22:16:20 | thekernel | AUDIT: Thu Oct 24 15:11:14 2002: 15526 X: client 2 rejected from local host |
| 22:16:20 | thekernel | Auth name: XDM-AUTHORIZATION-1 ID: -1 |
| 22:17:13 | thekernel | I'm just trying to compile the DRI CVS again and see if there was just a bug that got checked in. |
| 22:17:40 | CosmicPenguin | xhost+ |
| 22:18:28 | CosmicPenguin | are you trying to run it as root? |
| 22:18:33 | thekernel | yes |
| 22:18:51 | CosmicPenguin | Is root authorized to use your X server? |
| 22:18:54 | thekernel | kdm that is. Those lines came from /var/log/XFree86.0.log |
| 22:19:24 | thekernel | startx works fine, I just have trouble with xdm and kdm. xdm gets farther than kdm, it actually takes a username and pass |
| 22:19:49 | CosmicPenguin | So you can run X apps? |
| 22:20:01 | thekernel | I'm using X as I type |
| 22:20:09 | thekernel | I just can't use a dm |
| 22:21:36 | CosmicPenguin | Thats a little wierd |
| 22:21:51 | thekernel | I can also do things by running /usr/bin/X11/XFree86 and then running an X program with the XDISPLAY env variable set. |
| 22:22:04 | CosmicPenguin | I know its herasy for a Debian user, but did you try gdm? |
| 22:22:21 | thekernel | I did a CVS update and alot of stuff changed in the Xserver directory in the source tree so I'm rebuilding |
| 22:22:28 | thekernel | Havn't done that yet. |
| 22:23:18 | CosmicPenguin | do you have a .session_errors file in your home directory |
| 22:23:23 | thekernel | On a side note, I think I'm going to become a mac user. |
| 22:23:47 | thekernel | nope |
| 22:24:03 | CosmicPenguin | stupid xchat |
| 22:24:37 | thekernel | no .session_errors files |
| 22:31:49 | thekernel | Ever just forget what / command you're using? |
| 22:33:15 | CosmicPenguin | No... I've got this cool thing called an monitor that actually shows me what I am typing |
| 22:33:53 | thekernel | It's been a while so I thought /l was somethig else |
| 22:43:19 | thekernel | brb |
| 23:13:02 | CosmicPenguin | is away: Uh, oh.. the weasel got out again... |
| 23:13:50 | han_solo | what did you think /you were? |
| 23:15:08 | Jayce^ | I. M. Weasel |