| 00:01:50 | brailsmt | whats the problem? |
| 00:06:43 | Bonez39 | well, I have installed this app called swiftview..for viewing multipage .tif files.. |
| 00:06:54 | Bonez39 | it works when pointing directly to the file.... |
| 00:07:59 | Bonez39 | but I have inserted the path statments and the export commands to have it be available from any prompt, and yet even though echo $NDGUTIL will return the folder where it's located....still, after sourcing /etc/profile it will not start up correctly. |
| 00:11:02 | brailsmt | Bonez39: well, I am not familiar with the app and it appears to be a problem with setting up specific paths for the app... |
| 00:12:22 | Bonez39 | ok... |
| 00:12:47 | Bonez39 | how can I create a text file from the output of running ls -al in a folder? |
| 00:13:01 | brailsmt | ls -sl > <file> |
| 00:13:15 | Bradipo | ls -al > filename.txt |
| 00:13:30 | brailsmt | so "ls -al > ls.out" will put the listing into ls.out |
| 00:13:34 | Bradipo | Yep. |
| 00:13:50 | Bonez39 | ok....... |
| 00:13:52 | Bonez39 | thank you.. |
| 00:14:07 | Bradipo | Hmm, without punctuation a sentence is hard to understand. :-) |
| 00:14:12 | brailsmt | Bonez39: that works for everything the prints output to stdout |
| 00:14:14 | Bradipo | brailsmt: I thought you were asking a question. |
| 00:14:33 | Bonez39 | thank you.. |
| 00:14:38 | Bonez39 | this is why I love linux.... |
| 00:14:47 | Bonez39 | quick answers....to simple yet perplexing questions... |
| 00:14:54 | brailsmt | the only puctuation I know how to use correctly is the ';'... :) |
| 00:23:07 | Bonez39 | is away: but please leave a message |
| 00:30:12 | han_solo | anyone else here on byu's resnet? |
| 03:26:41 | Jayce^ | http://www.perl.org/advocacy/spoofathon/ |
| 03:26:46 | Jayce^ | that is just too funny |
| 03:34:13 | brailsmt | han_solo: I am here now... :) |
| 03:37:25 | brailsmt | how about, english is better than perl.... |
| 03:37:54 | brailsmt | last I heard no one ever wrote a love sonnet in perl... |
| 03:39:21 | Jayce^ | wannna bet... |
| 03:40:14 | brailsmt | well, shakespeare certianly isn't in perl... it is difficult to follow as it is... :) |
| 03:40:48 | brailsmt | notice that it isn't limited to computer languages only... |
| 04:17:15 | han_solo | and then I wasn't here :) |
| 18:35:39 | han_solo | that lab that they're making us do in c++... I did it in ruby in 3 hours, it has taken about 12 man-hours to do in c++ and we still don't have it running without segfaulting |
| 18:38:32 | levi_ | Ahh, the joys of C++ |
| 18:41:26 | Jayce^ | and the joys of scripting.. |
| 18:42:18 | han_solo | I wish I knew lisp well enough to do it in lisp. I wouldn't come up with any impressive numbers though since I haven't used lisp in at least a year |
| 18:43:06 | CosmicPenguin | It will take you three hours just to type the parens... :) |
| 18:43:29 | han_solo | :) |
| 18:44:37 | levi | Doing it in Lisp would be cool. Hey, it's a good excuse to learn, right? ;) |
| 18:46:15 | han_solo | probably :) But I did this because I knew I could crank it out fast in ruby. I'm going to do a passive protest against having made us do it in c++. |
| 18:49:08 | Jayce^ | I've done that for quite a few classes.. teachers never liked it.. would always do the assignment in the forced lanaguage (Java, VB, or C++ usually) then would show the Perl version... |
| 18:49:38 | CosmicPenguin | It depends on what the project was thouogh |
| 18:50:15 | CosmicPenguin | Its important to know Java, VB and C++ - you never know when they might be userful |
| 18:50:22 | han_solo | don't care much if he likes it. :) |
| 18:50:28 | han_solo | yeah, I know c++ much better than ruby |
| 18:50:40 | han_solo | c++ is my chief language. I also know java. |
| 18:52:39 | CosmicPenguin | Like for example QT -- thats a perfect example of when C++ might be suitable for use |
| 18:54:22 | han_solo | my rub with this lab was that what we're doing is rudimentary logic programming - the kind of thing lisp was made for. it just fits that paradigm better. (using prolog wouldn't be much fair since prolog has the functionality of the lab pretty much built in I think) |
| 18:54:50 | levi | I recall writing something like that in Java for a class. |
| 18:55:25 | levi | Ended up being a database with a prolog-like query language. |
| 18:55:40 | han_solo | similar to that (That was 236 I think) |
| 18:55:49 | han_solo | but this project is so mickey-mouse it's ridiculous |
| 18:56:34 | han_solo | in order to make it small enough to do in c they make a million simplifying concessions to the point that the end result is utterly worthless |
| 18:56:51 | han_solo | to do in c in the amount of time they want us to spend on it, rather |
| 18:57:54 | levi | Yeah, that does sound silly when they're trying to teach something other than 'software engineering in c++' |
| 18:59:45 | han_solo | yeah. otoh I don't think they really have anywhere to go even if they let us do it in another language, since the lowest-common-denominator students just know c++ and/or java, and would have a hard time even thinking about doing it in another language |
| 19:00:35 | han_solo | i imagine it's a hard balance to strike as a department - how do you get people proficient in the standards like c++ and java, and otoh use the right tool for the job. |
| 19:03:19 | levi | Yeah. I think it'd be a good idea for CS depts. to focus on a couple of languages, one that's very high level and good for rapid prototyping of the learned concepts, and another that's relatively low-level to go along with engineering-oriented, architecture, and OS classes. |
| 19:03:42 | CosmicPenguin | You wouldn't get very far without C, so thats a must. |
| 19:03:52 | levi | So you could do Lisp and C, or Ruby and C++, etc. |
| 19:04:23 | CosmicPenguin | And a good CS department (one that hasn't sold out to M$) should at least teach one of the web scripting languages - Perl, PHP or Python |
| 19:04:32 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 19:04:54 | Jayce^ | heck, even one that has sold out has reason to teach those. |
| 19:05:05 | neybar | not UOP... |
| 19:05:14 | CosmicPenguin | Nah, they would just teach Visual Basic and tell people how to use FrontPage |
| 19:06:27 | levi | Well, I think anyone with a high-level dynamic language and a low-level static language could pick up a web scripting language easily on their own. No need to waste class time on it. |
| 19:07:30 | CosmicPenguin | I dunno - I would have loved to have learned Perl when I was in college |
| 19:07:56 | CosmicPenguin | Better than doing a whole class of Visual Basic |
| 19:08:15 | Jayce^ | yeah.. ditto here.. |
| 19:08:22 | levi | Well, I'm just saying that there's no need for CS people to take perl /or/ VB classes. |
| 19:09:05 | levi | The dept should teach a couple of languages and allow you to learn and use others if you want/need to. And otherwise focus on concepts that aren't as easy to pick up on your own. |
| 19:09:18 | han_solo | i agree |
| 19:09:27 | CosmicPenguin | as do I |
| 19:09:29 | han_solo | i think a high-level language would be a real boon |
| 19:09:49 | levi | Perl and VB classes are the 'trade school' type classes of the computer world. |
| 19:09:53 | han_solo | not only as a tool, but a lot of times people get their c++/java-colored glasses on and think in implementation terms |
| 19:09:56 | han_solo | and miss out on the big picture |
| 19:10:38 | CosmicPenguin | It would actually be a good semster project to write a script interpeter.... |
| 19:10:54 | levi | Yeah, a lot of times the class isn't about implementation, it's about design or algorithms or whatever, and worrying about implementation of the little details is distracting and counterproductive. |
| 19:11:10 | CosmicPenguin | THat would be as much fun as the kernel development class |
| 19:11:44 | levi | I think there should be a clear distinction between 'software engineering' and 'computer science' courses, and some of both should be required. |
| 19:12:54 | levi | I mean, there's a lot of overlap, but there's a clear distinction and it's easy to pick up one without 'getting' the other much at all. |
| 19:16:11 | levi | And I think it would be really nice to let people who are more interested in one than the other to get more emphasis on that area. |
| 19:20:48 | han_solo | yup |
| 20:02:42 | Jayce^ | ens? |
| 20:02:50 | han_solo | maybe he meant Jens |
| 20:09:22 | BZFlag | everyone in utf8? |
| 20:09:28 | BZFlag | ibot x en es teachme |
| 20:09:29 | | BZFlag: teachme |
| 20:09:33 | BZFlag | ibot x en es teach me |
| 20:09:34 | | BZFlag: enséñeme |
| 20:10:03 | BZFlag | you should see enseneme with the e accented, and the n with a tilde. |
| 20:10:10 | Jayce^ | nope |
| 20:10:15 | Jayce^ | enséñeme |
| 20:10:32 | BZFlag | your paste looks right to me. |
| 20:10:50 | BZFlag | sounds like you are in latin-1 or something. |
| 20:10:50 | Jayce^ | you wanted enseme ? |
| 20:10:54 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 20:11:01 | han_solo | still sees nothing |
| 20:11:10 | | BZFlag: excuse me? |
| 20:11:10 | BZFlag | ibot x en jp teach me |
| 20:11:15 | BZFlag | heh |
| 20:16:11 | fugalh | ibot x en es teach me |
| 20:16:12 | | fugalh: enséñeme |
| 20:16:12 | CosmicPenguin | I'm using latin |
| 20:16:45 | fugalh | cool. while we're talking utf8, how do you get rid of those annoying gtk messages about fonts? |
| 20:17:03 | fugalh | The font "-*-arial-medium-r-normal--*-120-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1, |
| 20:17:05 | fugalh | -*-helvetica-medium-r-normal--*-120-*-*-*-*-*-*" does not support all the required character sets for the current locale "en_US.UTF-8" |
| 20:17:05 | fugalh | (Missing character set "JISX0208.1983-0") |
| 20:17:05 | fugalh | (Missing character set "KSC5601.1987-0") |
| 20:17:05 | fugalh | (Missing character set "GB2312.1980-0") |
| 20:17:05 | fugalh | (Missing character set "JISX0201.1976-0") |
| 20:17:07 | fugalh | and the like |
| 20:17:56 | CosmicPenguin | Whew... iso8859-1 is *way* off |
| 20:18:02 | BZFlag | only method I know of is to pick a font that has all encodings. I don't know of one off hand. |
| 20:18:37 | Jayce^ | yeah, dia and gimp always give lot's of those.. |
| 20:18:45 | fugalh | thing is, almost every gtk program uses one of those for the menus |
| 20:19:04 | fugalh | that's the #1 reason I don't go straight utf-8, that and man pages get messed up |
| 20:20:33 | BZFlag | notes that CosmicPenguin could do a ctcp version ;-) |
| 20:20:42 | BZFlag | ibot: x en jp teach me |
| 20:20:42 | | BZFlag: 私を教えなさい |
| 20:20:47 | CosmicPenguin | I don't like to impose |
| 20:20:51 | CosmicPenguin | :) |
| 20:20:51 | BZFlag | anyone see those? |
| 20:20:57 | CosmicPenguin | Nope - what font are you using? |
| 20:21:06 | fugalh | i see bunches of boxes in tirc and nothing in xchat |
| 20:21:07 | BZFlag | I don't see them either. |
| 20:21:17 | han_solo | bbiab |
| 20:21:27 | BZFlag | I see 7 boxes in xchat under utf8 |
| 20:21:46 | CosmicPenguin | I see 17 boxes |
| 20:21:57 | fugalh | i see some carats between boxes |
| 20:22:12 | han_solo | ibot: x en jp teach me |
| 20:22:12 | | han_solo: 私を教えなさい |
| 20:22:32 | han_solo | just boxes in xchat |
| 20:24:15 | CosmicPenguin | I'm not even sure how to tell which of my fonts are UTF8 or not |
| 20:26:20 | BZFlag | nope, searched around for a font that had those characters, but no luck. |
| 20:26:57 | BZFlag | iso10646-1 is unicode which is what utf8 wants. |
| 20:28:35 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: x en es teach me |
| 20:28:36 | | CosmicPenguin: enséñeme |
| 20:28:57 | CosmicPenguin | With arial iso10646-1, I see a copyright symbol in the 5th spot |
| 20:29:26 | BZFlag | you have the right font, but the wrong mapping. |
| 20:29:34 | CosmicPenguin | hmm.... |
| 20:29:40 | fugalh | heh. does that mean microsoft copyrighted the ene? |
| 20:29:40 | BZFlag | you need the LANG set before you run your client. |
| 20:29:47 | BZFlag | heh, no. |
| 20:29:52 | Jayce^ | I see that too.. and the +- thing in the 7th |
| 20:29:57 | CosmicPenguin | admits that ne knows mothing about international fonts |
| 20:30:26 | Jayce^ | only uses the extended latin type accent marks.. |
| 21:25:36 | Kryptik | Hey all, you guys want to help me out with something. |
| 21:26:01 | CosmicPenguin | sure |
| 21:26:03 | CosmicPenguin | why not |
| 21:26:33 | Kryptik | I am learning perl and I want to know how to send a mail message, but I cant find a decent guide or tutorial anywhere, any suggestions. |
| 21:26:49 | Jayce^ | hehe.. check out perl.com, or perlmonks.com |
| 21:27:06 | Jayce^ | lot's of instructions on those two sites, and I knoow they have discussed that a lot.. |
| 21:27:26 | Kryptik | Why is it a common question |
| 21:27:31 | Jayce^ | common task.. |
| 21:27:46 | Kryptik | yea.. |
| 21:28:05 | Jayce^ | just so you know, there are several modules written to make that very easy.. Mail::Sendmail among others.. or just open a pipe to sendmail itself :) |
| 21:28:28 | Kryptik | rthanks |
| 21:29:01 | Jayce^ | functions like Mail::Sendmail make it very clean, and OO to do this, you just suppoly some info.. |
| 21:29:48 | Kryptik | Ok that helps a ton |
| 21:30:03 | Jayce^ | do you have any perl books? |
| 21:30:23 | Kryptik | NO, I am poor and I cant find a ride to the library |
| 21:30:31 | Jayce^ | figures :) |
| 21:30:45 | Kryptik | Hmm Yep |
| 21:31:03 | Jayce^ | quick pointer.. anytime you want to know how a command works, on the command line type "perldoc -f functionname" and it will tell you.. |
| 21:31:12 | Kryptik | I looked into ruby though, cant get it installed yet, well actually dont want to untill I understand more |
| 21:31:20 | Kryptik | I am in windows |
| 21:31:21 | Jayce^ | want to know how an installed package works.. "perldoc package" |
| 21:31:34 | Jayce^ | still works, and I think they have an HTML version too.. |
| 21:32:08 | Jayce^ | so, if you had Mail::Sendmail, you could type "perldoc Mail::Sendmail" and get the document for it.. |
| 21:32:27 | Kryptik | Oh ok. Hmm I must not be looking in the right places, I have been to perl.org or .com whatever, but all I found that looked like it might help was the mailing list |
| 21:32:49 | Kryptik | you do a lot with perl? |
| 21:33:02 | CosmicPenguin | or you could just go to perldoc.com |
| 21:33:03 | CosmicPenguin | :) |
| 21:33:05 | Jayce^ | perl.com :) perl.org serves the lists and some other stuff.. I think learn.perl.org might still be up.. |
| 21:33:17 | Jayce^ | yeah, perldoc.com is very nice.. forgot about that one for a second.. |
| 21:33:21 | Kryptik | ok that would do it |
| 21:33:24 | Jayce^ | and of course, search.cpan.org is great.. |
| 21:33:36 | Jayce^ | especially the latest version.. |
| 21:33:42 | Kryptik | yea I found learn.perl |
| 21:34:05 | Jayce^ | Kryptik: yes, that's my job... Perl.. |
| 21:34:15 | Kryptik | Where do you work |
| 21:34:27 | Jayce^ | at home :) telecommute for a guy in Alaska.. |
| 21:35:02 | Kryptik | Hmm sounds fun |
| 21:35:06 | Jayce^ | very |
| 21:35:26 | Kryptik | Heh did you know you can ssh from a palm |
| 21:35:39 | Jayce^ | with the right stuff.. mine can't.. |
| 21:35:53 | Kryptik | Just got one doing it know. |
| 21:36:07 | Jayce^ | wants a zaurus bad.. |
| 21:37:17 | Kryptik | heh if I had 349 I would get you one |
| 21:41:11 | Kryptik | Got quiet |
| 21:41:15 | Jayce^ | yup |
| 21:41:19 | Jayce^ | usually is :) |
| 21:42:45 | Kryptik | Man I remember way back when (a year maybe two years), IRC was for file sharing, AOL style chat was unheard of. Now it is used for poweridling... |
| 21:43:26 | Kryptik | begins to make copies of reddragon.mpeg |
| 21:43:35 | Bradipo | What is used for poweridling? AOL or IRC? |
| 21:43:48 | Jayce^ | heh.. IRC is still very much used for that...just not this network.. |
| 21:43:49 | Kryptik | Irc |
| 21:44:09 | Kryptik | switches from openprojects to relicnet |
| 21:44:30 | Kryptik | then distributes his copies of reddragon.mpeg to the elemtary kids |
| 21:44:39 | Kryptik | elementary |
| 21:44:47 | Kryptik | never graduated. |
| 21:45:04 | Jayce^ | heh.. |
| 21:45:11 | Jayce^ | watches lightning out his window.. |
| 21:45:20 | Kryptik | I love this weather |
| 21:46:21 | Jayce^ | is from seattle... it dont' get better than overcast with something falling out of it :) |
| 21:46:41 | Kryptik | is moving there or ireland asap |
| 21:51:36 | CosmicPenguin | We had some pretty good lighting up here about 30 minute ago |
| 21:51:41 | CosmicPenguin | cooled things off nicely |
| 21:52:17 | Jayce^ | yeah, I saw the big stuff head by then, very little happened here, but seemed to liven up over SLC |
| 21:57:11 | Kryptik | I am in pg |
| 21:57:40 | Kryptik | Looking out the office window there is storms to the left and right but not direcly out torwards the mtns |
| 21:58:04 | Jayce^ | my window out my backyard faces north.. |
| 21:59:03 | Kryptik | Hmm |
| 22:02:28 | Jayce^ | rain now.. |
| 22:05:48 | Kryptik | you must be near the temple or the mtns |
| 22:08:44 | Jayce^ | nope.. opposite side of the valley |
| 22:12:45 | Kryptik | really? I thought you lived in pg |
| 22:12:56 | Kryptik | or does pg extend over there |
| 22:15:33 | Jayce^ | no... I'm on the west side of lehi.. |
| 22:17:58 | Kryptik | Really? Hmm there was someone who lived her close to me |
| 22:18:12 | Jayce^ | think there are a few people up there.. |
| 22:18:44 | Kryptik | Hmm wierd thought it was you. |
| 22:24:48 | Kryptik | begins to drool at the thought of Tucanos |
| 22:25:30 | Jayce^ | ooohhhhh.... haven't been there or rodizios in a while... |
| 22:25:59 | Jayce^ | notes that that is pronounced "ho-gee-zee-ohs" |
| 22:26:35 | Kryptik | takes thought of all the places he hasnt been |
| 22:27:39 | Kryptik | turns up the system blazing the latest hit from backstreet boys, while being gunned down for just that... |
| 22:27:58 | Jayce^ | joins in on the shooting spree.. |
| 22:29:18 | Kryptik | turns it down as he takes his one thousandth and fourty third tag to the chest |
| 22:29:39 | Jayce^ | gotta love shooting with a phalanx :) |
| 22:30:16 | Kryptik | for get that.. how about being hit by one |
| 22:30:35 | Kryptik | forget (back to the elementary thing) |
| 22:32:22 | Kryptik | watches the sh|! that went down on 9/11 |
| 22:37:01 | Kryptik | changes channel out of anger |
| 22:44:19 | CosmicPenguin | Argh! Why would a web hosting service not allow remote authorization on their SMTP sever????? |
| 22:45:57 | Kryptik | Cause they are trying to get into guieness for the compony who went bankrupt fastest |
| 22:50:14 | CosmicPenguin | wonders if they are using encrypted |
| 22:52:55 | CosmicPenguin | hugs apt-get for RPMS |
| 23:06:59 | CosmicPenguin | is away: Uh, oh.. the weasel got out again... |
| 23:35:40 | han_solo | there's a nifty review of Debian 3.0 on debian planet - a frank review that's not all peaches and cream so don't read it unless you already love debian like me. :) |