| 00:31:33 | bbeattie | BZFlag: do you know how much the hardware costs oem? |
| 00:44:08 | BZFlag | nope. |
| 02:52:50 | bbeattie | alright, |
| 05:43:27 | tylerl | Is anybody here awake? |
| 05:45:32 | brailsmt | |
| 14:11:29 | cosmicatwork | is back (gone 14:32:27) |
| 15:54:46 | orbit | Can anybody recommend a good JRE? I know there's the one by Sun, but are there any better? |
| 15:57:57 | han_solo | depends on what you're doing |
| 15:58:34 | han_solo | I'm using gcj-3.2 for compiling, but sun's JRE for running |
| 15:58:35 | orbit | Just running a Java app. |
| 15:58:44 | orbit | Not compiling or anything... |
| 15:59:05 | han_solo | because the stuff I'm using won't run in other free JREs |
| 15:59:57 | han_solo | well, there's gij and kaffe |
| 16:00:05 | han_solo | what distro? |
| 16:00:49 | orbit | RH 7.2 |
| 16:09:40 | han_solo | i'd look for rpms for those two. I hear ibm has a jre too, and there's blackdown which i've never tried |
| 16:10:17 | orbit | ok, thanks. |
| 16:19:57 | han_solo | are flex and bison in cygwin, I would guess? |
| 16:21:34 | orbit | han_solo: I would think so... |
| 16:25:40 | Jayce^ | whaddup HarleyPig |
| 16:27:27 | HarleyPig | The sun, the moon, clouds, little yellow birdies. |
| 16:33:23 | CosmicPenguin | polution |
| 17:07:02 | Jayce^ | dangit.. I hate it when you go to use something, and you can't because you didn't enable something in the kernel that it needs.. |
| 17:08:19 | HarleyPig | :D |
| 17:08:30 | HarleyPig | Enable *EVERYTHING* hahahahaha |
| 17:08:35 | HarleyPig | Oh, wait. |
| 17:08:44 | Jayce^ | ok windows boy.. |
| 17:08:59 | HarleyPig | Hey! No need to get vicious! |
| 17:08:59 | Jayce^ | considers adding that to harleypigs description from ibot |
| 17:09:17 | | Jayce^'s computer. is nothing but a frothy plate of beslubbering dog vomit. |
| 17:09:17 | HarleyPig | ibot insult Jayce^'s computer. |
| 17:09:23 | HarleyPig | :] |
| 17:09:35 | | HarleyPig's kernel is nothing but an elf-skinned accumulation of industrial craptacular carpet droppings. |
| 17:09:35 | Jayce^ | ibot insult HarleyPig's kernel |
| 17:09:36 | | Jayce^'s game playing skills is nothing but a lumpish assload of vassal-willed slurpee-backwash. |
| 17:09:36 | HarleyPig | ibot insult Jayce^'s game playing skills |
| 17:09:45 | levi | Mmmm, beslubbering dog vomit. |
| 17:09:53 | | HarleyPig's MoM is nothing but a tastless half-mouthful of crook-pated entrails. |
| 17:09:53 | Jayce^ | ibot insult HarleyPig's MoM |
| 17:09:54 | HarleyPig | elf-skinned? |
| 17:10:13 | HarleyPig | craptacular? |
| 17:10:21 | levi | craptacular is a great word |
| 17:10:44 | Jayce^ | that is just so craptacular.. |
| 17:12:38 | CosmicPenguin | Its a perfectly cromulant word... :) |
| 17:12:49 | HarleyPig | Anyone know "Software and More"'s website name? |
| 17:13:01 | Jayce^ | heh, they still in business? |
| 17:13:04 | HarleyPig | I need that DICT plugin for xchat. |
| 17:13:07 | Jayce^ | you getting a new vid card HarleyPig? |
| 17:13:24 | HarleyPig | Yeah ... told Suzanne mines getting old and needs to be replaced. |
| 17:13:26 | CosmicPenguin | weeps for a generation so heavly influenced by The Simpsons |
| 17:13:47 | Jayce^ | tells CosmicPenguin to eat his shorts.. |
| 17:13:54 | Jayce^ | HarleyPig: what's your budget? |
| 17:14:08 | Jayce^ | might be able to find a better deal through "friends" |
| 17:14:42 | HarleyPig | Not sure yet ... depends on if^Whow much I get paid today. |
| 17:15:44 | HarleyPig | dictionary.com doesn't have cromulant ... what's it mean? |
| 17:15:53 | HarleyPig | Probably around $200 though. |
| 17:15:58 | Jayce^ | dang!! |
| 17:16:07 | HarleyPig | Which should be enough I think for a decent card. |
| 17:16:08 | Jayce^ | some serious cash for a vid... |
| 17:16:19 | Jayce^ | very good.. go a little less and get more ram :) |
| 17:16:21 | HarleyPig | GeForce4, 32MB? |
| 17:16:56 | Jayce^ | (they dont' have 32mb versions :) ) |
| 17:17:00 | HarleyPig | Oh. |
| 17:17:03 | Jayce^ | 64 or 128.. I've got the 64 |
| 17:17:04 | HarleyPig | :] |
| 17:17:23 | HarleyPig | Wait ... can UT2003 run on a 850MHz system? |
| 17:17:45 | Jayce^ | that's towards the low end.. but it can.. |
| 17:17:59 | Jayce^ | you'll just want to lower ceratin aspects.. and not host.. |
| 17:18:08 | Jayce^ | having and cmgl linux box will help.. |
| 17:18:14 | HarleyPig | Nutz ... can't afford to upgrade the cpu yet. |
| 17:18:16 | HarleyPig | cmgl? |
| 17:18:20 | HarleyPig | ducks. |
| 17:18:39 | Jayce^ | I've got plug (duron 900, 256 mb) hosting a dedicated server |
| 17:18:42 | Jayce^ | smgl.. |
| 17:18:56 | Jayce^ | well, for about $100 you can set up a duron 1 ghz.. |
| 17:19:48 | HarleyPig | In my current box? |
| 17:21:02 | Jayce^ | yeah, swap the mb/cpu.. share the ram.. |
| 17:22:20 | HarleyPig | Hmmm ... maybe I could squeeze another $75 out ... |
| 17:26:30 | HarleyPig | How can I find out what I can upgrade on my box? |
| 17:45:53 | Jayce^ | well, by budget, we can detirmine a lot |
| 17:53:16 | HarleyPig | Cool. |
| 17:53:53 | HarleyPig | Who would I need to talk to? |
| 17:54:20 | Jayce^ | well, I can probably help some.. |
| 17:54:41 | Jayce^ | kelly says's he'll sell you his geforce 2 pro for cheap.. good card, and would save you a bit.. |
| 17:55:00 | HarleyPig | Pro... isn't that the one with tv in/out? |
| 17:55:18 | Jayce^ | at least out.. but more it's got a lot faster clock speed.. |
| 17:55:30 | HarleyPig | How much? |
| 17:55:39 | Jayce^ | ooohh.. new wallace & gromit |
| 17:55:45 | Jayce^ | noword yet. |
| 17:56:47 | HarleyPig | K. I'm kind of wanting to upgrade as much as possible ... it's going to be a long time before I can upgrade again. |
| 17:57:09 | Jayce^ | yeah.. I'll look to see what I can find.. |
| 17:57:22 | HarleyPig | Thanks. |
| 17:58:53 | Jayce^ | about $200 you could buy and athlon XP 1600 mb/chip/fan.. |
| 17:59:28 | HarleyPig | Not bad ... would the memory I have now fit? |
| 17:59:48 | Jayce^ | but you'd need to ram for that one.. $100 for 512 ddr.. another $100 for acard? |
| 18:00:00 | HarleyPig | acard? |
| 18:00:06 | Jayce^ | a video card |
| 18:00:49 | Jayce^ | bye bye card.. |
| 18:00:50 | HarleyPig | oh. So, basically, $400 total? (mb/cpu - 200; ram - 100; video 100) |
| 18:00:57 | HarleyPig | splits! Whee |
| 18:01:01 | Jayce^ | for that... gotta look around.. |
| 18:02:35 | Jayce^ | if you went with a duron 1ghz.. for around $71 (mb/chip/fan).. that would use the same ram you have right now.. |
| 18:03:07 | HarleyPig | How good is the duron? |
| 18:04:12 | Jayce^ | good... comparing duron to XP as celeron is to Pentium IV, the duron is much better than the celeron |
| 18:04:42 | Jayce^ | geforce 4 mx, 64mb for $55 online. |
| 18:04:53 | HarleyPig | Hmmm ... that might be the way to go. |
| 18:04:54 | Jayce^ | that's the lowest end 4 of course.. |
| 18:05:24 | HarleyPig | Yeah, but about 6 feet above my current setup! |
| 18:06:10 | HarleyPig | The link gun sounds like a wierd weapon. |
| 18:11:54 | Jayce^ | it's the same gun as before.. but has some extra tricks.. |
| 18:12:39 | Jayce^ | so right there.. for under $200 you could go to a duron 1ghz, and a gforce 4mx.. not the *best* upgrade... but well in your budget.. |
| 18:22:41 | HarleyPig | Yeah ... I might have to go for that. |
| 18:23:12 | Jayce^ | gotta look around more of course, that's just a quick note.. |
| 18:27:07 | HarleyPig | On a different note ... how do I make the kernel recognize audio cds? |
| 18:27:16 | HarleyPig | or, what moutn command would I use? |
| 18:28:15 | levi | I dunno if you can mount audio CDs. I don't recall ever doing it. |
| 18:28:49 | HarleyPig | I can't get grip or cdparanoia to recognize the cd in the drive. |
| 18:29:21 | levi | Shouldn't need any special mounting or anything for grip or cdparanoia to work. What sort of drive? |
| 18:29:57 | HarleyPig | *shrug* Just a minute. |
| 18:30:09 | levi | IDE or SCSI, I mean. |
| 18:30:14 | HarleyPig | Oh. IDE |
| 18:30:24 | Jayce^ | yeah, you don't mount audio, they are read directly.. |
| 18:30:59 | HarleyPig | Then what am I doing wrong so that xmms and cdparanoia and the like aren't seeing any data? |
| 18:31:03 | Jayce^ | ugh.. just did a sorcery update on my laptop, first time in a month... it's going to be busy for a while.. |
| 18:31:16 | Jayce^ | /dev/cdrom not there? not pointing to the right spot? |
| 18:31:27 | HarleyPig | :\ Yeah, and you'll need to do a rebuild after that long too. |
| 18:31:42 | HarleyPig | Nope, /dev/cdrom is fine (data cds work just fine). |
| 18:32:05 | levi | You aren't using scsi-emulation, are you? |
| 18:32:09 | Jayce^ | is it automounting? |
| 18:32:33 | HarleyPig | Not that I'm aware of (to both). Checking automount, and how do I check scsi emu? I haven't explicitly set it. |
| 18:32:34 | Jayce^ | just as a note on that.. do *not* use supermount when trying to install ut2k3.. wont' work.. |
| 18:32:52 | Jayce^ | HarleyPig: is it a burner? if not then probably not |
| 18:33:11 | han_solo | Jayce^: you inspire me to do apt-get upgrade |
| 18:33:20 | HarleyPig | Not automounting ... non-burning drive. |
| 18:33:28 | Jayce^ | han_solo: just about an equal command there.. |
| 18:33:50 | Jayce^ | han_solo: except this one has to compile *everything* that's updated.. |
| 18:33:58 | han_solo | just wrote his first parser in flex/bison |
| 18:34:19 | levi | han_solo: What's it parse? |
| 18:34:41 | han_solo | first order logic sentences, in implicative normal form |
| 18:36:18 | Jayce^ | well, mike handy should be driving down tomorrow... |
| 18:46:05 | levi | Sadly, I don't remember 'first order' or 'implicative normal form'. |
| 18:46:24 | levi | In terms of logic sentences, at least. |
| 18:49:09 | han_solo | e.g. IsSmart(x) AND CanProgram(x) => UsesLinux(x) |
| 18:49:54 | han_solo | => is implies |
| 18:50:32 | han_solo | implicitave normal form is just everything on the left is a big conjunction (and'ed together) and everything on the right is a big disjunction |
| 18:50:37 | han_solo | (or'ed) |
| 18:51:00 | han_solo | The universal quantifier is implied for variables (i.e. forall x) |
| 18:51:54 | levi | My predicate logic is rusty. But that makes sense. What are you writing this for? |
| 18:52:28 | han_solo | AI class |
| 18:52:48 | han_solo | the lab will take two such sentences and apply 'resolution' to come up with what other sentences can be inferred |
| 18:53:29 | Jayce^ | gotta write something along those lines for work I think... gotta do some smart helpdesk responder stuff.. |
| 18:53:36 | han_solo | this is the sort of stuff lisp was written for, and the prof. is making us do it in c or c++ |
| 18:54:00 | levi | Sounds like the sort of stuff Prolog was written for, actually. |
| 18:54:31 | levi | Which I learned a bit of at BYU AHSSP, which was lots of fun. |
| 18:55:23 | han_solo | yeah, prolog pretty much looks like that with different syntax. not too familiar with prolog though, i thought it was just a declarative language, i.e. how do you actually do stuff in it, instead of just representing stuff? |
| 18:55:46 | levi | I don't remember, but you can. :) |
| 18:55:51 | han_solo | :) |
| 18:56:17 | levi | It's perfect for writing expert systems. |
| 18:56:33 | han_solo | the lab is ridiculously simple, with all sorts off allowed assumptions like limits on sentence length and number of terms and so on - apparently to make it easy to parse for the complete moron |
| 18:56:51 | han_solo | I just threw those away and decided to try my hand at flex/bison |
| 19:24:04 | brailsmt | flex is nice |
| 19:25:30 | han_solo | brailsmt: use it a lot? |
| 19:26:07 | brailsmt | I used to use for a project I was working, I wrote a parser to parse the game output of TradeWars 2002... |
| 19:26:11 | brailsmt | it was a beast |
| 19:26:24 | brailsmt | since the output wasn't designed to parsed... |
| 19:26:56 | han_solo | did you use c or c++ or interface to ruby or what? |
| 19:27:07 | brailsmt | han_solo: you looked into racc? there is also a ruby bison something or other |
| 19:27:35 | brailsmt | no it was all in java... I was using jflex, not flex, but the syntax and sematics are the same |
| 19:27:43 | han_solo | oic. |
| 19:27:58 | han_solo | heard of it. I might use it for my ruby gedcom parser |
| 19:28:37 | brailsmt | I wrote a script last night to generate JUnit test class templates... :) |
| 19:28:53 | brailsmt | took about 20 minutes :) |
| 19:29:16 | brailsmt | that was one of the things Dr. Woodfield was saying was nice about JTest... |
| 19:29:26 | brailsmt | ruby is a lot cheaper though... :) |
| 19:30:44 | han_solo | :) |
| 19:31:00 | han_solo | I just ran JTest. I copped out. ;) |
| 19:31:52 | han_solo | reading on /. yesterday about RMS and BitKeeper, the whole linux kernel thing |
| 19:33:01 | brailsmt | i don't follow /., what was the article about? |
| 19:33:05 | han_solo | I've always been happy with CVS but I can see the issues for a big project and got me wondering how hard such a project really would be. BitKeeper claims it's huge, but I'm not so sure. Not tiny, that's obvious, but I don't know if I'd put it up there in complexity with say vim or emacs |
| 19:34:06 | brailsmt | isn't apache working on a CVS replacement? |
| 19:34:41 | han_solo | basically, linus et al use bitkeeper for the kernel development. bitkeeper is non-Free. Recently they changed some licensing so that you can't use the free (as in beer) version of bitkeeper to develop competing products (say, CVS). |
| 19:35:13 | brailsmt | well, cvs is at a point where it can use itself |
| 19:35:19 | brailsmt | anyway, I gotta go eat... |
| 19:36:27 | han_solo | i don't know about an apache thing |
| 19:37:45 | Bradipo | What's wrong with CVS? |
| 19:38:37 | han_solo | for big projects there are some things which CVS lacks. linus has a list of things he can't stand about cvs, one that I can remember is that you can't rename a file without losing the history of it. |
| 19:39:08 | han_solo | managing binary files was another big one, though I'm not sure what kinds of binary files kernel development needs... |
| 19:39:22 | Bradipo | How do you track changes in a binary file? |
| 19:39:37 | han_solo | got me |
| 19:39:44 | Bradipo | I guess you could do binary patches... |
| 19:40:09 | Bradipo | But that probably requires something more specialized than the patch command. |
| 19:43:27 | Jayce^ | subversion is the cvs replacement/upgrade |
| 20:03:19 | brailsmt | is there anything more mature than subversion? it is only 0.1... |
| 20:05:30 | han_solo | subversion claims to be alpha stable - they've been using it to host itself for over a year now and haven't lost "any data *at all*" |
| 20:07:07 | Jayce^ | I haven't used it yet.. so not sure about it. |
| 23:26:17 | CosmicPenguin | is away: Uh, oh.. the weasel got out again... |