| 02:23:41 | brailsmt_ | byu 42 - syracuse 21 |
| 02:24:04 | brailsmt_ | :) |
| 15:35:53 | han_solo | so who won? |
| 15:36:04 | levi_ | BYU |
| 15:36:04 | han_solo | is too lazy to pull up the site. |
| 15:37:31 | han_solo | cool |
| 15:38:10 | han_solo | what's the right way to deal with subdirectories in makefiles and header files (c++ code)? |
| 15:38:23 | brailsmt | BYU won handily |
| 15:38:27 | levi_ | I only know because I talked to someone on the phone who had watched it. |
| 15:38:28 | brailsmt | 42 - 21 |
| 15:38:44 | brailsmt | byu gained 615 yards offense to their 312 |
| 15:38:53 | brailsmt | our defense was much improved |
| 15:42:10 | CosmicPenguin | The score wouldn't have even been 21 if it wasn't for turnovers |
| 15:42:13 | levi_ | We were channel surfing and saw this cool BYU commercial about the engineering dept. building a battery-powered race car. |
| 15:42:41 | CosmicPenguin | - a die-hard Utah fan, was impressed by BYU last night |
| 15:42:44 | levi_ | It was much cooler than the Syracuse commercial, which was mostly pictures of their campus. |
| 15:44:35 | levi_ | Therefore, BYU is a better school regardless of the outcome of the silly game. ;) |
| 15:45:05 | han_solo | :) |
| 15:47:03 | Jayce^ | it wsa quite a fun game to be at |
| 15:49:17 | levi_ | It's more fun when you're at an away game with a bunch of girls who are fans of the opposing team, and said team is losing. |
| 15:49:56 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 15:52:03 | han_solo | ponders learning autoconf |
| 15:56:26 | Jayce^ | anybody here a sendmail fan? (over the others?) |
| 15:56:48 | han_solo | is a sendmail anti-fan |
| 15:57:19 | Jayce^ | heh |
| 15:57:53 | Jayce^ | would like to get somebody to present on it during our MTA wars meeting thi next month |
| 16:00:12 | han_solo | you mean defend it? |
| 16:00:26 | han_solo | from the inevitable onslaught? |
| 16:03:28 | Jayce^ | hey HarleyPig.. |
| 16:03:45 | Jayce^ | han_solo: yeah... actually, Mike Handy would want to defend it, if he was here.. |
| 16:04:00 | HarleyPig | 'lo |
| 16:04:36 | Jayce^ | no major system problems today? |
| 16:04:56 | HarleyPig | No, just lotsa pressure. :/ |
| 16:05:43 | Jayce^ | what's up today? |
| 16:05:48 | HarleyPig | Anyone here know of a way I can test a radius server from a linux command line? |
| 16:06:05 | HarleyPig | 3 projects, high priority, all due by eod ... all by me. |
| 16:06:07 | HarleyPig | Yeah. |
| 16:06:11 | HarleyPig | That's gonna happen. |
| 16:06:15 | levi_ | Fun! |
| 16:06:59 | han_solo | gluck |
| 16:07:17 | Jayce^ | begins plotting on how to distract HarleyPig :D |
| 16:07:24 | HarleyPig | :P |
| 16:07:25 | Jayce^ | oooh.. bright shiny thing.. |
| 16:13:34 | Jayce^ | cool.. reading the man/perldoc has fun side affects.. |
| 16:13:37 | Jayce^ | perl -MCPAN -e 'CPAN::Shell->install(CPAN::Shell->r)' |
| 16:13:56 | levi | Here's a fun distraction: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/Alien_recipes.html |
| 16:13:57 | Jayce^ | that will update every package that has a newer version.. |
| 16:14:21 | Jayce^ | heh.. that one will get HarleyPig's attention for sure |
| 16:17:03 | HarleyPig | Klingon Recipes! |
| 16:18:04 | levi | No, these are for cooking and eating REAL aliens. You know, like blues and greys. |
| 16:19:17 | HarleyPig | Look near the bottom. |
| 16:19:24 | HarleyPig | Recipes of the Damned too. |
| 16:19:52 | levi | Oh, those are other websites, though. |
| 16:29:00 | han_solo | anyone here use automake? |
| 16:31:14 | Jayce^ | nope |
| 16:31:43 | HarleyPig | Only when compiling ... I've never put one together. |
| 16:33:09 | CosmicPenguin | han_solo: unfortunately |
| 16:33:40 | han_solo | CosmicPenguin: I'm wondering if I should turn to it, or stick with hand-crafted makefiles. |
| 16:34:36 | CosmicPenguin | han_solo: It depends... what kind of project are you looking at? |
| 16:34:46 | CosmicPenguin | han_solo: if you don't mind me asking |
| 16:35:06 | han_solo | not at all - it's genealogical |
| 16:35:16 | han_solo | c++ code deals with the gedcom files |
| 16:35:49 | han_solo | java (thanks be to SWIG) for the GUI |
| 16:35:55 | CosmicPenguin | han_solo: so its all one project, not something complex like a complete rootfs, right? |
| 16:36:03 | CosmicPenguin | han_solo: lots of outside dependancies? |
| 16:36:22 | han_solo | but the c++ code is really part of another project. and a version of the gui will be a part of that project too |
| 16:37:16 | han_solo | both parts are in-house, but we will be using several libraries at least on the java side. |
| 16:37:30 | han_solo | and the c++ side uses qt libraries |
| 16:38:54 | han_solo | oh and it will be cross-platform |
| 16:39:03 | CosmicPenguin | han_solo: in that case, you definately want to use automake |
| 16:39:14 | CosmicPenguin | s/automake/automake/autoconf/ |
| 16:39:23 | CosmicPenguin | Oops, bad regex... |
| 16:39:23 | CosmicPenguin | :) |
| 16:39:23 | han_solo | ok, then I'll break down and learn it. |
| 16:39:26 | han_solo | lol |
| 16:39:38 | han_solo | thx |
| 16:39:55 | CosmicPenguin | Actually, don't use automake, it just gets confusing, but autoconf will save your life - especially when you need to find the QT libraries and outside dependancies |
| 16:40:16 | CosmicPenguin | Plus you will need to use libtool, which personally I think is the spawn of the devil, but then again, I never write cross platform code |
| 16:41:05 | han_solo | why is automake confusing? the web page claims to use a format simpler than makefiles |
| 16:42:37 | han_solo | not that I believe everything I read... |
| 16:43:11 | CosmicPenguin | han_solo: Perhaps confusing was the wrong word - the Makefile that is ultimately created seems to be overly complex for my tastes... |
| 16:43:56 | han_solo | oic. I have seen automake-generated makefiles and I readily agree. but if I never have to edit them by hand I don't mind. |
| 16:45:39 | CosmicPenguin | han_solo: for example, I have an directory that builds a simple library - 9 cfiles collapse into 1 library |
| 16:45:47 | CosmicPenguin | han_solo: the generated Makefile for that is 311 lines long |
| 16:46:51 | han_solo | which files did you have to hand-write? just Makefile.am and configure.in right? How long are those? |
| 16:48:03 | CosmicPenguin | In that directory, Makefile.am is about 10 lines, but configure.in is a few hundred lines |
| 16:48:16 | han_solo | and you had to write confiure.in? |
| 16:48:20 | CosmicPenguin | yeah |
| 16:48:43 | han_solo | what is in it? why so long? |
| 16:48:52 | CosmicPenguin | Anyway, I don't like it - the final result is way too complex. But then again, I only write code destined for linux kernels, so I can afford tobe snobby |
| 16:50:34 | CosmicPenguin | my configure.in is designed for cross compile (Ipaq) - so I have do some custom checking for the correct host and target architectures, then I have to check for half a dozen dependancies, and finally I need to tweek the C code for a borked cross compiler |
| 16:52:14 | han_solo | oh, fun |
| 17:56:20 | scott | http://icfpcontest.cse.ogi.edu/task.html |
| 17:56:25 | scott | ICFP 2002 task just went up |
| 18:18:19 | CosmicPenguin | When a robot is pushed it gets rebooted. While rebooting no command can be executed. |
| 18:18:28 | CosmicPenguin | Apparently, the robots are running Win2K |
| 18:18:32 | han_solo | lol |
| 18:25:49 | Jayce^ | ouch |
| 18:39:11 | Jayce^ | so, we going to make a plug entry to this :D |
| 18:42:05 | han_solo | dumps core |
| 19:00:03 | HarleyPig | I'm using Authen::Radius to check the status of a server ... |
| 19:00:22 | HarleyPig | and I can connect all right, but no matter how the user is setup it's denied service. |
| 19:00:29 | HarleyPig | This user works everywhere else. |
| 19:00:31 | HarleyPig | Any ideas? |
| 19:04:35 | Jayce^ | never played with that.. so can't say |
| 19:07:09 | levi | Woo, I have my road bike now. |
| 19:07:36 | Jayce^ | what kind? |
| 19:09:43 | levi | It's a Specialized Allez Elite |
| 19:12:47 | Jayce^ | not familiar with them |
| 19:16:53 | levi | http://www.specialized.com/SBCBkModel.jsp?san=03AllezElite27&bl=road |
| 19:23:27 | han_solo | for the record, the name of that place brailsmt was looking for is Utilitix |
| 21:31:35 | Jayce^ | umm.. ok |
| 21:37:20 | Jayce^ | hey dan.. what's up? |
| 21:37:24 | orbit | hiya. |
| 21:37:31 | orbit | just sitting here at work. |
| 21:37:32 | Jayce^ | 'bout time you joined us :D |
| 21:37:38 | orbit | hehe. I've been on a few times. |
| 21:37:42 | Jayce^ | great review? did you already tell marsee? |
| 21:37:48 | orbit | Yeah. |
| 21:37:59 | orbit | I've got a couple others queued up too. |
| 21:38:03 | Jayce^ | ok, I won't then.. getting a letter ready for her.. |
| 21:38:06 | orbit | k |
| 21:38:20 | Jayce^ | yeah, I have to finish some, but most aren't o'reilly (manning and new riders) |
| 21:38:30 | orbit | I've gotta plow through 1000+ pages of Unix Power tools. |
| 21:38:39 | orbit | Cool book, but huge! |
| 21:39:08 | orbit | Have you ever worked with HTML::Mason? |
| 21:39:22 | Jayce^ | no.. but they have a book coming out real soon |
| 21:39:28 | orbit | Which publisher? |
| 21:39:37 | Jayce^ | O'reilly I believe.. |
| 21:39:58 | Jayce^ | I know garron, who works at verio uses it.. |
| 21:40:10 | orbit | Cool. I just started playing with it this week. |
| 21:40:54 | orbit | Lets you embed Perl in HTML. |
| 21:41:01 | orbit | Among other things. |
| 21:41:58 | Jayce^ | yeah, I've never liked that direction though... |
| 21:42:17 | Jayce^ | I hate having code in my html... not separated enough for me |
| 21:43:11 | orbit | Right. |
| 21:43:32 | orbit | Well, you're not constrained to put all your code in the html. |
| 21:43:36 | Jayce^ | part of the reason I dont' like PHP.. it's the same ASPish style, which I disklike.. |
| 21:43:40 | Jayce^ | yeah I know.. |
| 21:43:40 | orbit | hehe. |
| 21:44:09 | Jayce^ | I've been playing with the cpan module today... dang that's cool |
| 21:44:19 | orbit | It appealed to me, because I hate print qq|'ing all my html :-) |
| 21:44:32 | orbit | cpan - yah. |
| 21:44:48 | Jayce^ | my boss didn't want to use make on our new system that we're starting.. so I'm upgrading a build tool that he started.. way sweet |
| 21:44:55 | orbit | I wrote a little script using CPAN to suck down tarballs, and write out rpm specs for me. |
| 21:45:19 | Jayce^ | yeah, I don't want any html inside my code either, I like them in separate files/db's completely |
| 21:46:24 | orbit | I see. |
| 21:47:42 | Jayce^ | right now I'm tyring to decode how Apache::Test works, to run it in our build system, since it's build for makefiles |
| 21:47:45 | orbit | So do you have some process that swaps in values for variables in your html? |
| 21:48:28 | Jayce^ | yeah, depending on what company I've been at.. each one has had their own templating system it seems like :D |
| 21:48:46 | orbit | Yep. We've got our own here... |
| 21:48:54 | Jayce^ | the one I'm at now does it rather incorrectly, that's why those of us there now are rewriting everything.. |
| 21:49:07 | orbit | heh. |
| 21:49:27 | Jayce^ | so this months presentation should be good.. |
| 21:49:42 | orbit | Yeah, I think so. |
| 21:49:49 | orbit | Major 'slugfest'. |
| 21:50:05 | Jayce^ | next month han_solo will be presenting on VIm :D |
| 21:50:27 | Jayce^ | yeah, mike's upset, he wants to be here to defend sendmail against you guys.. |
| 21:50:40 | orbit | lol...:-) |
| 21:50:55 | orbit | I'd probably use qmail before I ever chose sendmail :-) |
| 21:51:06 | orbit | who's han_solo? |
| 21:51:11 | han_solo | me |
| 21:51:17 | han_solo | is Hans |
| 21:51:19 | Jayce^ | really? |
| 21:51:28 | Jayce^ | dang, didn't get the question out in time :D |
| 21:51:32 | orbit | Ah. |
| 21:51:54 | orbit | Yep. |
| 21:52:08 | orbit | Sendmail is just bloated and slow. |
| 21:52:13 | orbit | IMNSHO :-) |
| 21:52:35 | Jayce^ | hehe.. I'm going to request the sendmail books from marsee though.. just to try and get the freebies. |
| 21:52:36 | orbit | Mature and stable, but bloated and slow :-) |
| 21:52:40 | orbit | hehe. |
| 21:52:46 | Jayce^ | anybody publish a postfix book? |
| 21:53:01 | Jayce^ | O'reilly has an exim one too |
| 21:53:05 | orbit | I think New Riders has one. |
| 21:53:12 | Jayce^ | I didn't see one.. |
| 21:53:13 | orbit | Maybe |
| 21:53:19 | orbit | Probably another publisher. |
| 21:53:25 | Jayce^ | covets his new copy of the New Riders VIm book |
| 21:53:36 | Jayce^ | my precious |
| 21:53:39 | han_solo | that's my job Jayce^ |
| 21:53:51 | han_solo | it's mine. my own |
| 21:54:02 | orbit | Sams. |
| 21:54:26 | Jayce^ | dang, sams doesn't have a user group program.. talked to them at oscon.. |
| 21:54:47 | orbit | losers :-) |
| 21:54:56 | Jayce^ | yup |
| 21:55:25 | orbit | Now if only Addison-Wesley gave out review copies so easily :-) |
| 21:55:37 | orbit | tries this out... |
| 21:55:41 | Jayce^ | heh.. I have one of there books, that's it.. |
| 21:56:08 | orbit | I've got a couple, not counting textbooks. |
| 21:56:18 | orbit | they've got some good database books. |
| 21:56:25 | orbit | Stuff I could go over for hours on the list :-) |
| 21:57:12 | Jayce^ | apress (who sent us those dumb ones) said they would send me their new perl modules for CPAN book |
| 21:57:30 | orbit | Cool. |
| 21:57:35 | han_solo | needs to crack down and write reviews on his oreilly's |
| 21:57:46 | orbit | I've still got to read that SQL Server book they sent. |
| 21:57:53 | Jayce^ | yup.. you get lotsa freebies.. |
| 21:57:55 | orbit | The O'Reilly ones have been 'funner' |
| 21:58:32 | Jayce^ | oh yeah, this month is plugs 6th birthday.. gotta make a cake.. |
| 21:58:33 | orbit | I'm starting to write a book review database app to manage all my reviews. |
| 21:58:38 | orbit | right. |
| 22:04:11 | | the one tru MTA is the almighty Postfix. |
| 22:04:11 | orbit | ibot, what is the one tru MTA? |
| 22:04:20 | orbit | hee hee |
| 22:04:20 | Jayce^ | d'oh :D |
| 22:04:35 | orbit | ibto, who is the ruler of the free world? |
| 22:04:42 | orbit | er ibot, who is the ruler of the free world? |
| 22:04:43 | Jayce^ | ibto 'eh? |
| 22:04:51 | orbit | type. |
| 22:04:56 | | Jayce^ is the president (ha) of the Provo Linux Users Group (http://www.plug.org) or a Perl Monger or the punk going to OSCON or a few electrons short a charge. |
| 22:04:56 | Jayce^ | ibot, who is Jayce^? |
| 22:04:57 | orbit | er typo. |
| 22:05:05 | orbit | heheh. |
| 22:05:13 | | well, the ruler of the free world is Thayne, of course. |
| 22:05:13 | orbit | ibot, who is the ruler of the free world? |
| 22:05:21 | Jayce^ | ouch.. :D |
| 22:05:34 | Jayce^ | does thayne use Sendmail? |
| 22:05:45 | orbit | Dunno. |
| 22:14:38 | orbit | We might want to elect a treasurer this next meeting. |
| 22:14:53 | orbit | Tasked with setting up a bank account (or at least a paypal account) |
| 22:15:11 | orbit | And establishing the non-profit org. |
| 22:15:56 | orbit | Mike had to pay the Verisign tax again. |