| 11:52:30 | han_solo | morning world |
| 13:53:18 | scothoser | Morning all |
| 14:01:23 | scothoser | whois |
| 14:05:00 | scothoser | q |
| 15:40:47 | han_solo | appears |
| 15:41:53 | brailsmt | pulls out his light saber and relies on his hokie old religion |
| 15:41:54 | brailsmt | :) |
| 15:43:34 | han_solo | so I got The Pragmatic Programmer from the library, and learned ruby. |
| 15:44:22 | brailsmt | Pragmatic Programmer is a *GOOD* book |
| 15:44:56 | brailsmt | one of the authors hangs out in #ruby-lang every now and then |
| 16:30:08 | scothoser | Morning again.. |
| 16:30:59 | han_solo | morn |
| 16:31:41 | scothoser | hey han, if you had a choice, would you take a laptop with more RAM or longer battery life? |
| 16:31:57 | han_solo | depends, how long is the battery life of the lesser one? |
| 16:32:08 | scothoser | 2.9 hours to 5 hours. |
| 16:32:54 | scothoser | I'm trying to decide between a Mac G3 laptop, or a Toshiba.. |
| 16:33:08 | han_solo | oh well, then I'd probably take the mac myself. |
| 16:33:23 | han_solo | how much ram does the lesser have? |
| 16:33:39 | scothoser | The mac has 128, and the toshiba has 256 |
| 16:34:02 | scothoser | the G3 is a 700, and the Toshiba is a 1.2 Ghs Celeron.. |
| 16:34:16 | han_solo | wishes he had to make that decision. |
| 16:34:35 | Bradipo_ | I would go for more RAM. |
| 16:34:38 | scothoser | The toshiba has a larger hard drive as well, but the Mac almost doubles the battery life.. |
| 16:35:00 | Bradipo_ | How often do you run on battery? |
| 16:35:05 | han_solo | well since I am not a hardware taxer, I'd go with the G3 with longer battery life and mac architecture |
| 16:35:11 | Bradipo_ | That's definitely something to consider. |
| 16:35:41 | han_solo | up until a few weeks ago I ran on 233mhz. now I'm at 550 and happy as can be. :) |
| 16:36:14 | scothoser | I don't right now, but I would like something that would let me watch LOTR before the battery dies.. ^_^ |
| 16:37:17 | han_solo | i guess you should consider whether you want to boot into osX and/or need (want?!) to boot into Windoze |
| 16:37:21 | scothoser | I like Macs, but I can't install SMGL on it (at least I don't know of any PPC ports for it).. and I _really_ like SMGL.. |
| 16:37:50 | han_solo | isn't smeagol like gentoo? don't you build for your arch? |
| 16:37:54 | scothoser | It would be either OSX or Linux.. (can't stand windows..) |
| 16:38:19 | scothoser | SMGL is Source Mage Gnu Linux.. Linux from source.. |
| 16:38:42 | han_solo | osx is nice, real nice. I would probably spend more time in linux, but I'd probably boot into osx now and then. |
| 16:38:50 | scothoser | I could get a PPC version of Mandrake or something, but I really like the control of SMGL.. |
| 16:38:56 | han_solo | yeah, I know. I just gave it a nickname. |
| 16:39:05 | han_solo | or debian |
| 16:39:33 | tensai | han_solo: I think it's a funny nickname |
| 16:39:43 | levi_ | After upgrading my Mac G3 to a faster processor, I use it for most of my computing. I really like OS X. |
| 16:39:47 | tensai | scothoser: which is cheaper to upgrade later, the battery or the RAM? |
| 16:39:50 | scothoser | I've heard that OSX is really nice.. I would love to try it.. but the RAM is kind of holding me back.. and the Linux install.. |
| 16:40:09 | han_solo | levi_, is there a way to bring back good ol' window shading? |
| 16:40:24 | han_solo | i would guess RAM, but that's just a guess. |
| 16:40:33 | levi_ | There's a way to do it for Carbon apps, but not Cocoa, AFAIK. |
| 16:41:32 | han_solo | well I'd take the mac in a heartbeat. But your needs/wants may be different |
| 16:41:39 | scothoser | Man, I wish Harleypig were here.. |
| 16:41:47 | levi_ | X11 also compiles fine, and runs rootless on top of Quartz. |
| 16:42:06 | levi_ | So you can install Gnome or KDE or whatever, if you want to run that stuff. |
| 16:42:10 | scothoser | I've also heard that ibooks are silent, because there isn't a fan in them |
| 16:42:31 | levi_ | I didn't see any point in installing Linux on my Mac, but then I've also got a couple of other Linux boxes on my network that I can use. |
| 16:43:08 | scothoser | Yeah.. this will be for work (kind of ^_^), and I am soo sick of having to use my WIndows box.. |
| 16:43:25 | han_solo | what work? |
| 16:44:12 | scothoser | Administering my network here at work. I could get them to get me a laptop, but there is no knowing what they will give me.. |
| 16:44:41 | scothoser | This way it is mine, and I can use it for anything I want. |
| 16:45:03 | scothoser | But I can't decide between the mac and the intel. They both have good options.. |
| 16:45:14 | levi_ | A whole lot of open source unix apps compile on OS X just as well as on Linux. And the number that do should get even better with the Jaguar release of OS X. |
| 16:45:55 | han_solo | quicktime works on the mac (obviously) - what is the status of quicktime in linux? I had heard some rumors but never looked at it |
| 16:46:20 | scothoser | I've heard it works with the older Sorensen codec, but that's it. |
| 16:46:23 | levi_ | I believe there are a couple of ways of making it work, mostly through commercial wine-spinoffs. |
| 16:47:28 | scothoser | I wonder if you could compile rdesktop on OSX.. |
| 16:47:46 | tensai | han_solo: the Two Towers trailer plays fine in Xine |
| 16:47:51 | scothoser | sits back and smiles. |
| 16:48:29 | scothoser | tensai: Was that a .mov file, or another codec? |
| 16:49:07 | han_solo | tensai: funny, we tried that here and xine croaked. |
| 16:49:09 | scothoser | brb |
| 16:50:08 | tensai | scothoser: "demux_qt: 'SVQ1' video @ 240x180" |
| 16:50:29 | tensai | scothoser: I guess that means sorenson. It's a quicktime .mov |
| 16:51:06 | tensai | han_solo: with the debs from unstable? |
| 16:51:10 | han_solo | so what windows emulators are there? wine... any others? what's the best? |
| 16:51:15 | han_solo | actually, at work - rh 7.3 |
| 16:51:42 | tensai | han_solo: dunno about that then |
| 16:52:04 | scothoser | back |
| 16:53:01 | han_solo | i'm apt-getting xine at home now, we'll see when I get home whether it can handle it :) |
| 16:53:02 | scothoser | han_solo: I have heard that WineX works really well (finally). Haven't got it yet tho.. |
| 16:53:21 | han_solo | isn't WineX commercial? |
| 16:53:29 | han_solo | Mostly I'm looking to run PAF on it |
| 16:54:17 | scothoser | I beleive so. I haven't found an open source project that works really well (tho I haven't checked for a year or so). |
| 16:54:50 | scothoser | PAF it DOS-based isn't it? Couldn't you run a DOS emulator for it? |
| 16:55:40 | han_solo | goodnes, not that PAF. since 4.0 it's windows based |
| 16:56:26 | scothoser | Ahh.. Too bad the church hasn't open-sourced the code. Then we could compile a Linux version.. |
| 16:57:44 | brailsmt | anyone thought of writing to church HQ and asking them to open the source? |
| 16:58:21 | scothoser | OR at least offer free Linux binaries.. |
| 16:58:23 | han_solo | not sure. it's possible someone has, but it's possible noone has |
| 16:58:36 | han_solo | I very much doubt they'll offer linux binaries |
| 16:58:46 | han_solo | and I also doubt it would be easy to cross-compile |
| 16:59:09 | han_solo | (having worked at the church last summer and seen how things go there) |
| 17:00:33 | brailsmt | the church is currently working to make things like education and stuff available to everyone especially ppl that can't afford it themselves, so why not the same for PAF? |
| 17:02:21 | han_solo | well PAF is free. |
| 17:02:26 | han_solo | not open, but free |
| 17:02:41 | brailsmt | but not on linux... |
| 17:02:48 | han_solo | of course they assume everyone has windows - mostly ignorance (although sometimes chosen ignorance) |
| 17:02:52 | brailsmt | just a thought... |
| 17:03:22 | brailsmt | well, unfortunately they are mostly right |
| 17:03:28 | han_solo | if someone could present a good argument for poor people in africa that can only afford to run linux if anything at all |
| 17:03:52 | han_solo | that's probably the best leverage. they do of course care about people in other countries. PAF's language support is the best in the industry that I have seen. |
| 17:04:40 | scothoser | it's a fairly save assumption tho.. most people that are running programs like PAF are Windows users (and just barely that, if my wife's grandparents are the average). |
| 17:04:41 | han_solo | but people in US without access to windows is practically unheard of (unless by choice of course) - we are after all a rich society |
| 17:05:09 | han_solo | exactly |
| 17:49:38 | han_solo | depmod: *** Unresolved symbols in /home/fugalh/src/linux/debian/tmp-image/lib/modules/2.4.18/kernel/drivers/char/drm/sis.o |
| 17:49:38 | han_solo | depmod: sis_malloc_Ra3329ed5 |
| 17:49:38 | han_solo | depmod: sis_free_Rced25333 |
| 17:50:17 | han_solo | from a kernel compile. anyone know why I might get this? I'm compiling this module in hopes that my so-far-unimpressive onboard video card might actually be worth something. |
| 21:14:31 | Jayce^ | finally online again... but only barely |
| 21:21:02 | han_solo | do tell |
| 21:21:26 | Jayce^ | isp switched circuits, and also is moving their towers (wireless).. |
| 21:21:47 | Jayce^ | need to get a new IP, and of course, the Plug server now needs a new IP too.. |
| 21:47:26 | brailsmt | the more I use ruby, the more I love it! |
| 21:51:50 | han_solo | me too |
| 21:52:21 | han_solo | although I wrote a cgi page in ruby and the cgi module is a lot like programming in scheme. not that I dislike scheme - i very much like first class functions |
| 21:52:40 | brailsmt | i recently have taken to coding guis in ruby and then writing a C extension to tie the gui with my C/C++ app :) |
| 21:53:29 | han_solo | is it hard to make a gui? what gui toolkits are available? I know tk and gtk, but any others (not particularly fond of either). |
| 21:53:35 | han_solo | in particular I'd love a binding to Qt |
| 21:55:23 | Jayce^ | Qt seems to not like working outside of C++ or python.. |
| 21:55:42 | han_solo | Well how did they get it working in python? |
| 21:56:06 | Jayce^ | some of the trolltech people like python ,so they kinda help that one out.. |
| 21:56:25 | brailsmt | ruby has bindings for tk, gtk, qt, fox, and a few others |
| 21:56:53 | han_solo | Project name: Ruby/Qt Version: 0.15 Status: just started, Ultra alpha |
| 21:57:08 | brailsmt | well, its there... :) |
| 21:57:23 | han_solo | cool. I'll give it a try |
| 21:57:30 | brailsmt | i like ruby/tk the best, it seems to be the most ruby-ish |
| 21:57:30 | Jayce^ | taht's about the perl status too.. they had it working well in 1.x but since then they've been kinda shut out ome |
| 21:57:33 | Jayce^ | some |
| 21:58:50 | han_solo | the thing that drives me nuts about gtk and tk apps is that they can never figure out how to size the window. I'm ALWAYS resizing those silly windows because I can't see all the dialog options/text. |
| 21:59:35 | brailsmt | I don't know about gtk, but in tk it is easy... |
| 22:00:37 | han_solo | so it's the developers and not the toolkit? In that case i could live with it (although seeing a pattern indicates that maybe the toolkit isn't as good as it should be) |
| 22:04:14 | han_solo | ok, so if I want to make a tk gui, what's a good reference (free on the web is nice of course. :) |
| 22:06:25 | brailsmt | of course |
| 22:06:47 | han_solo | although I do have the tcl/tk quick reference (o'reilly) at home |
| 22:06:56 | brailsmt | that will be very handy |
| 22:07:32 | han_solo | rbot hello |
| 22:07:32 | rbot | han_solo: hola :) |
| 22:07:32 | brailsmt | |google ruby/tk |
| 22:08:11 | brailsmt | search ruby/tk |
| 22:08:16 | brailsmt | haha... |
| 22:08:19 | brailsmt | |search ruby/tk |
| 22:08:19 | rbot | ruby/tk: http://httpd.chello.nl/k.vangelder/ruby/learntk/ |
| 22:08:23 | brailsmt | there you go |
| 22:08:50 | brailsmt | i'll help wherever I can |
| 22:09:13 | han_solo | thx. :) now if I can just squeeze it in. ;-) |
| 22:09:19 | han_solo | is packing up |