| 00:08:06 | fugalh | "Nickname Enforcement", Bradipo? |
| 00:08:11 | Bradipo | Yep. |
| 00:08:24 | fugalh | does that mean you used an illegal nickname? ;-) |
| 00:08:28 | Bradipo | Nope. |
| 00:09:12 | Bradipo | I was logged in from somewhere else... |
| 00:09:21 | Bradipo | I suppose I could have used a different nick. |
| 00:09:33 | Bradipo | But then I wouldn't have gotten any new memos. :-) |
| 00:10:02 | Bradipo | I actually have the name Bradipo registered. |
| 00:10:21 | Bradipo | Well, at least on irc.openprojects.net |
| 00:10:28 | fugalh | oic |
| 00:16:11 | HarleyPig | How does one do memos? |
| 00:16:33 | Bradipo | Send: /msg MemoServ HELP |
| 00:16:51 | Bradipo | But you must first register your nick with: /msg NickServ REGISTER <password> |
| 00:17:19 | HarleyPig | Ah ... didn't catch the Serv bit before. |
| 00:17:23 | HarleyPig | Thanks. |
| 00:17:33 | HarleyPig | Bradipo: Yeah, my nick is registered. |
| 00:17:38 | Bradipo | Ahh. |
| 00:17:39 | Bradipo | Ok. |
| 00:20:45 | Bradipo | IRC is the best IM system in my opinion. :-) |
| 00:21:04 | fugalh | agreed |
| 00:23:31 | HarleyPig | Definitely. |
| 00:25:58 | fugalh | ok, say I want to add ~/bin to my path. What is everyone's respected opinion of the best place to put this? .bashrc or .profile or .bash_profile ... |
| 00:26:09 | Bradipo | Whichever works. ;-) |
| 00:26:18 | Bradipo | .profile |
| 00:26:26 | Bradipo | But then if that doesn't work, .bash_profile |
| 00:26:46 | HarleyPig | fugalh: I have one and the others symlinked to it ... *shrug* |
| 00:26:57 | fugalh | well, what I had setup (before hdd crash) worked, but I had a path with ...:/home/fugalh/bin:/home/fugalh/bin:/home/fugalh/bin |
| 00:27:09 | fugalh | after opening a few xtemrs |
| 00:27:25 | fugalh | (I did export PATH=$PATH:$HOME/bin |
| 00:27:27 | fugalh | ) |
| 00:28:40 | fugalh | is one sourced on login (xdm) only? |
| 00:29:00 | fugalh | or are they both sourced when an xterm fires up? |
| 00:29:22 | HarleyPig | I don't think they're sourced unless you use the -ls command option. |
| 00:29:29 | HarleyPig | (I think it's -ls) |
| 00:29:51 | Bradipo | It is. |
| 00:30:07 | Bradipo | I always use: xterm -fg white -bg grey13 -ls -sl 1000 -sb -rightbar -tn xterm-color |
| 00:30:09 | Bradipo | :-) |
| 00:30:27 | HarleyPig | :) Was that cut-n-paste or from memory? :> |
| 00:31:21 | Bradipo | Yep. |
| 00:31:24 | Bradipo | From memory. |
| 00:31:30 | Jayce^ | What do you do for/with Perl 6? |
| 00:31:30 | Jayce^ | I dream in Perl 6... ;) |
| 00:33:15 | fugalh | -ls This option indicates that the shell that is |
| 00:33:15 | fugalh | started in the xterm window will be a login shell |
| 00:33:16 | fugalh | (i.e., the first character of argv[0] will be a |
| 00:33:16 | fugalh | dash, indicating to the shell that it should read |
| 00:33:17 | fugalh | the user's .login or .profile). |
| 00:34:06 | fugalh | so as I understand it, .profile (or .bash_profile) will be read on a login shell (hopefully that means xdm login or xterm with -ls) |
| 00:34:24 | fugalh | and .bashrc is read whenever a new shell is started |
| 00:39:55 | fozz | Hello! |
| 00:39:59 | fozz | returns to life |
| 00:47:48 | fugalh | ok, exporting PATH in .bash_profile (or .profile) works for login shells (i.e. logging in via ssh), but neither of them are sourced when logging into x |
| 00:48:22 | fugalh | which brings me to a question I've often pondered. I know about .xsession but it doesn't get sourced when you choose your window manager from gdm/kdm |
| 00:48:53 | fugalh | is there an equivalent file that will get sourced no-matter-what when you start an x session? |
| 00:50:21 | Bradipo | .xsession should get sourced. |
| 00:50:46 | Bradipo | If it doesn't then something is wrong with the xdm setup. |
| 00:50:57 | fugalh | it does with xdm. but not gdm or kdm |
| 00:51:08 | HarleyPig | pong |
| 00:51:09 | fugalh | (unless I choose xsession as my session) |
| 00:51:41 | fugalh | I like to ping someone to see if I have lag... your name is just the most fun to type HarleyPig :) |
| 00:51:48 | HarleyPig | :) |
| 00:54:46 | Jayce^ | oohh |
| 00:54:56 | fugalh | does it vroom? |
| 00:54:59 | Jayce^ | HarleyBot-- |
| 00:54:59 | | HarleyBot: tachyon emissions overloading the system |
| 00:54:59 | HarleyBot | Jayce^: excuse me? |
| 00:55:00 | | wish i knew, harleybot |
| 00:55:00 | HarleyBot | ibot: huh? |
| 00:55:26 | HarleyPig | Ahhh ... ibot killed HarleyBot! |
| 00:55:31 | Jayce^ | bwahahahahaha |
| 00:55:38 | Jayce^ | now that's almost recursion ;D |
| 00:55:44 | HarleyPig | :) |
| 01:02:05 | HarleyPig | Let's try this again. |
| 01:02:30 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: .us? |
| 01:02:30 | HarleyBot | harleypig: no idea |
| 01:02:39 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: .us? |
| 01:02:39 | HarleyBot | .us is probably united states |
| 01:02:53 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: 90210? |
| 01:02:53 | HarleyBot | i don't know, harleypig |
| 01:02:55 | Bradipo | .wz Provo, UT |
| 01:03:09 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: 90210? |
| 01:03:10 | HarleyBot | i guess 90210 is Beverly HillsLos AngelesCA |
| 01:03:25 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: slashdot |
| 01:03:26 | HarleyBot | Slashdot - Updated 2002-07-16 00:30:00 | Will BEEP Simplify Network Programming? | Pop-up Ads Coming to A TV Near You | A Medireview Approach To Stopping E-Mail Attacks | Caffeine May Reduce Alzheimers |
| 01:04:16 | fugalh | 84604 |
| 01:04:28 | fugalh | harleybot: 84604 |
| 01:04:28 | HarleyBot | it has been said that 84604 is Provo, Utah |
| 01:04:44 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: search for harleypig |
| 01:06:42 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: port 110? |
| 01:06:43 | HarleyBot | no idea, harleypig |
| 01:06:51 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: port 110? |
| 01:06:52 | HarleyBot | port 110 is, like, pop3 - Post Office Protocol - Version 3 |
| 01:07:33 | fugalh | harleybot, who is harleypig? |
| 01:07:33 | HarleyBot | i think harleypig is a genius |
| 01:07:40 | HarleyPig | :D |
| 01:07:43 | HarleyPig | Kewl. |
| 01:07:53 | fugalh | it's alive |
| 01:08:00 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: port 25? |
| 01:08:00 | HarleyBot | harleypig: bugger all, i dunno |
| 01:08:09 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: port 25? |
| 01:08:09 | HarleyBot | port 25 is smtp - Simple Mail Transfer |
| 01:09:08 | fugalh | whois harleybot |
| 01:09:15 | fugalh | with a slash. |
| 01:09:26 | fugalh | i had way too much fun with irc before my mission |
| 01:09:34 | HarleyPig | Ah. |
| 01:09:35 | HarleyPig | :> |
| 01:09:57 | HarleyPig | I see ... cool. |
| 01:10:05 | Bradipo | I recently wrote my own slashbot |
| 01:10:14 | HarleyPig | slashbot? |
| 01:10:25 | Bradipo | It keeps track of the current topics as well as notifies the channel when a new one is posted. |
| 01:10:33 | Bradipo | A slashdot bot. |
| 01:10:37 | HarleyPig | Ah. |
| 01:10:45 | fugalh | realizes he hasn't quite gotten used to tirc |
| 01:11:08 | fugalh | i'd like to write a bot, is it hard? |
| 01:11:13 | Bradipo | Not at all. |
| 01:11:29 | HarleyPig | Not really ... it's just that once you've done it you want to add to it ... |
| 01:11:33 | Bradipo | The IRC protocol is pretty simple. |
| 01:11:48 | HarleyPig | Heh ... and with the perl Net::IRC module it's even simpler. |
| 01:12:09 | | Jayce^ was last seen on #utah 16 minutes and 31 seconds ago, saying: now that's almost recursion ;D [Tue Jul 16 01:55:38 2002] |
| 01:12:09 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: seen Jayce^ |
| 01:12:09 | HarleyBot | I haven't seen 'Jayce^', HarleyPig |
| 01:12:21 | Bradipo | If you use perl... |
| 01:12:23 | HarleyPig | Heh. |
| 01:12:27 | Bradipo | I personally don't like perl. :-) |
| 01:12:37 | HarleyPig | Bradipo: True ... *gasp* don't like perl?! |
| 01:12:47 | HarleyPig | feels faint. |
| 01:12:54 | HarleyPig | :> |
| 01:13:07 | Bradipo | I actually wrote the bot in Tcl. |
| 01:13:18 | fugalh | has flashbacks |
| 01:13:23 | Bradipo | But would have done it in C had I the time. |
| 01:13:24 | fugalh | I ued tcl one summer |
| 01:13:30 | Bradipo | I just wanted a quick hack. |
| 01:13:39 | HarleyPig | Ah ... does tcl have an irc library? or did you write it froms cratch? |
| 01:13:45 | Bradipo | Scratch. |
| 01:13:51 | Bradipo | That's why I needed to learn the IRC protocol. |
| 01:13:53 | HarleyPig | fugalh: Bad flashbacks? |
| 01:14:00 | Bradipo | Like I said, though, it's a very simple protocol. |
| 01:14:03 | HarleyPig | Bradipo: I see. |
| 01:14:06 | fugalh | nah, tcl wasn't so bad. it was storyserver that was bad |
| 01:14:12 | Bradipo | lol |
| 01:14:15 | HarleyPig | :> |
| 01:14:23 | HarleyPig | rfc 1222 |
| 01:14:27 | HarleyPig | rfc 1222? |
| 01:14:33 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: rfc 1222? |
| 01:14:34 | HarleyBot | i haven't a clue, harleypig |
| 01:14:39 | Bradipo | 1432 or something like that. |
| 01:14:44 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: rfc 1222? |
| 01:14:44 | HarleyBot | well, rfc 1222 is Advancing the NSFNET routing architecture. H.W. Braun, Y. Rekhter. May-01-1991. (Format: TXT=15067 bytes) (Status: INFORMATIONAL) |
| 01:14:52 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: rfc 1432 |
| 01:14:53 | HarleyBot | HarleyPig: huh? |
| 01:14:58 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: rfc 1432? |
| 01:14:59 | HarleyBot | harleypig: i haven't a clue |
| 01:15:02 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: rfc 1432? |
| 01:15:03 | HarleyBot | rfc 1432 is Recent Internet Books. J. Quarterman. March 1993. (Format: TXT=27089 bytes) (Status: INFORMATIONAL) |
| 01:15:11 | Bradipo | Hmm, not that one. |
| 01:15:12 | HarleyPig | Uh ... yeah. :> |
| 01:15:23 | fugalh | so harleypig, how do you teach it these things? |
| 01:15:45 | Bradipo | HarleyBot: rfc 1459? |
| 01:15:45 | HarleyBot | wish i knew, bradipo |
| 01:15:47 | HarleyPig | It goes and asks other bots. Wierd. |
| 01:15:55 | HarleyPig | Bradipo: Yeah, just found it. |
| 01:16:04 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: rfc 1459 |
| 01:16:05 | HarleyBot | rumour has it rfc 1459 is Internet Relay Chat Protocol. J. Oikarinen & D. Reed. May 1993. (Format: TXT=138964 bytes) (Status: EXPERIMENTAL) |
| 01:16:59 | fugalh | who uses mutt? |
| 01:17:03 | | mutt is the client of choice for now I think. althea for IMAP. |
| 01:17:03 | fugalh | what is mutt? |
| 01:17:03 | HarleyBot | well, mutt is the best MUA |
| 01:17:19 | fugalh | that's what I thought. :) |
| 01:17:23 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: rfc 1459 is also http://www.networksorcery.com/enp/rfc/rfc1459.txt |
| 01:17:24 | HarleyBot | okay, HarleyPig. |
| 01:17:29 | | i think rfc 1459 is http://www.networksorcery.com/enp/rfc/rfc1459.txt |
| 01:17:29 | HarleyPig | HarleyBot: rfc 1459? |
| 01:17:29 | HarleyBot | rfc 1459 is Internet Relay Chat Protocol. J. Oikarinen & D. Reed. May 1993. (Format: TXT=138964 bytes) (Status: EXPERIMENTAL) or http://www.networksorcery.com/enp/rfc/rfc1459.txt |
| 01:19:03 | HarleyPig | Well, heck, rfc 1459 is only 65 pages or so ... easy reading! :> |
| 01:23:52 | Bradipo | Oh yeah. |
| 01:24:36 | Bradipo | But to write a bot you really only need to read the client parts. |
| 01:44:51 | fugalh | ok perl gurus, I install as non-root user a module using CPAN in ~/perl |
| 01:44:51 | fugalh | do I have to specify the full path in my 'use' statement, or is there an environment variable I can set? |
| 01:48:11 | HarleyPig | PERL5LIB |
| 01:49:00 | HarleyPig | You can set PERL5LIB to whatever path you like and perl will search it *first* for modules. |
| 01:49:25 | fugalh | thx |
| 01:49:41 | HarleyPig | np |
| 01:50:33 | Jayce^ | you can also "use lib ''" |
| 01:50:52 | HarleyPig | Yeah, but he was wondering if there was another way. |
| 01:51:33 | HarleyPig | Hmmm ... if he's doing that as a cgi script PERL5LIB won't work. |
| 01:52:00 | HarleyPig | Unless it's set by the user that the webserver calls perl as. |
| 01:52:41 | HarleyPig | Dangit ...can someone help me troubleshot an xinetd file? |
| 02:04:32 | Jayce^ | byroni. |
| 02:04:41 | byron | how |
| 02:04:55 | byron | whoops, enter key != apostrophe |
| 02:05:01 | byron | how's it going? |
| 02:05:15 | Jayce^ | hehe.. |
| 02:05:17 | Jayce^ | pretty good |
| 02:09:26 | byron | thinks Jayce^ is counting the hours until next week |
| 02:11:57 | Jayce^ | yeah, pretty much |
| 02:14:04 | byron | does smgl have a spell for either spice or gnucap? |
| 02:24:19 | Jayce^ | uhh, lemme check |
| 02:25:48 | Jayce^ | dont' see any |
| 02:25:59 | | they are giving the pinout of the plug that goes to DB25 |
| 02:25:59 | Jayce^ | what are they? |
| 02:26:01 | byron | how about geda? |
| 02:26:34 | byron | spice and gnucap are circuit simulation programs... i can built gnucap by hand, but spice seems beyond me |
| 02:26:52 | byron | all this creating your own makefile and adding all the right defaults, seems beastly |
| 02:28:20 | Jayce^ | nope.. don't see them,.. |
| 02:31:51 | Jayce^ | of course, they might be in the devel tree, or in the submittal process |
| 03:06:45 | byron | howdy art |
| 03:08:59 | BZFlag | . o O ( the channel count slowly grows... ) |
| 10:08:32 | art | anybody awake? |
| 10:11:27 | BZFlag | no |
| 10:20:02 | art | ha ha |
| 10:20:06 | art | Isaw that |
| 14:00:27 | hansel | morning |
| 14:19:57 | art | good morning |
| 14:23:11 | fozz | Good morning. |
| 14:25:57 | art | how is everyone this glorious morning? |
| 14:26:14 | Bradipo | Not bad. |
| 14:26:28 | Bradipo | Could be out geocaching instead... |
| 14:28:15 | fozz | :) |
| 14:28:24 | fozz | I've got to drive down to SLC today. |
| 14:28:42 | fozz | I'm not looking forward to that - going through that silly construction in North Ogden. |
| 14:30:03 | euler | fozz: Forget diamonds, Construction is forever. |
| 14:30:35 | art | especially in Utah |
| 14:32:20 | fozz | :) |
| 14:33:26 | fozz | "Hey honey, instead of a diamond ring, I'm giving you a 'SLOW' sign. It represents my undying love that lasts forever... just like Utah construction." |
| 14:33:38 | euler | heh |
| 14:33:55 | euler | fozz: Yah, I am sure your wife would love that :) |
| 14:34:32 | fozz | She'd say, "Oh- I'll give _you_ a slow sign." |
| 14:34:59 | euler | I was thinking more along the lines of a "Stop" sign. |
| 14:35:21 | fozz | Or a "Road Ends Ahead" :) |
| 14:35:24 | euler | heh |
| 14:35:38 | euler | Definitely not "lanes merge" |
| 14:36:12 | fozz | euler: How is your baby? |
| 14:36:27 | Bradipo | The Road Goes Ever On and On. |
| 14:37:58 | euler | She's doing really well. Did I tellyou she was lactose intolerant? |
| 14:38:15 | fozz | No. I didn't know that. |
| 14:38:40 | fozz | Has that discovery made her "operate" better? |
| 14:39:10 | fozz | My sister had to drink goats milk as a baby because of that. |
| 14:40:41 | euler | Yah, the diaper rash has completely cleared up. She also just recently had a reaction to an anti-biotic she was taking. It cause this weird rash on her arms,legs, and face. |
| 14:40:58 | euler | s/cause/caused |
| 15:01:33 | fozz | Dang. |
| 15:01:40 | fozz | heads to SLC |
| 15:13:20 | Jayce^ | whaddup neybar |
| 15:13:20 | Jayce^ | whaddup neybar |
| 15:20:25 | neybar | not much |
| 15:20:58 | neybar | what are you up to these days Alan? |
| 15:22:28 | Jayce^ | Alan? I didn't see any messages from him.. |
| 15:26:41 | neybar | I took a wild guess that Harley was him... maybe not. |
| 15:34:45 | Jayce^ | HarleyBot is a bot he's set up.. |
| 15:57:12 | art | hey euler, were you on #gentoo earilier this morning? |
| 16:13:49 | Jayce^ | wb tensai |
| 16:14:14 | tensai | Jayce^: thank you |
| 17:10:56 | art | byron! |
| 17:11:01 | art | how's it going? |
| 17:19:43 | Jayce^ | must not be going at all |
| 17:20:29 | | byron is nothing but a puking tongueful of common-kissing cat bladders. |
| 17:20:29 | Jayce^ | ibot: insult byron |
| 17:20:30 | HarleyBot | byron is nothing but a puking tongueful of common-kissing cat bladders. |
| 17:20:37 | art | I guess so, maybe he's away from his desk. |
| 17:20:40 | art | ouch!!! |
| 17:20:56 | Jayce^ | wow, they both came up with the same insult... better look at that code.. |
| 17:21:04 | | byron is nothing but a craven coagulation of unintelligent fish heads. |
| 17:21:04 | Jayce^ | insult byron |
| 17:21:04 | HarleyBot | byron is nothing but a craven coagulation of unintelligent fish heads. |
| 17:21:11 | Jayce^ | yup.. interesting.. |
| 17:21:22 | art | insult Jayce^ |
| 17:21:22 | HarleyBot | Jayce^ is nothing but an unoriginal puddle of inferior dog vomit. |
| 17:21:23 | | Slashdot - Updated 2002-07-16 17:31:27 | Microsoft in Peru, Living Room | Project Rainbow - 802.11 Across the U.S. | Perl for Web Site Management | Mac PVR Coming Soon |
| 17:21:23 | Jayce^ | ibot slashdot |
| 17:21:38 | art | sorry, I was just trying that out |
| 17:21:43 | | Jayce^: what? |
| 17:21:43 | Jayce^ | ibot cant' do two things at once.. |
| 17:21:44 | Jayce^ | riiight |
| 17:22:08 | art | I didn't mean to insult you, but really HarleyBot did. |
| 17:22:41 | art | Jayce^ do you know if Linux from Scratch has a PowerPC port? |
| 17:22:48 | Jayce^ | that's ok, I'll take it out on harley.. |
| 17:22:54 | Jayce^ | no idea.. haven't tried that one.. |
| 17:23:17 | Jayce^ | I know sourcemage is doing another test on their ppc iso this weekend hopefully.. we'll see how that works out.. |
| 17:23:39 | art | I just installed gentoo this last weekend, and have been pleased with it. |
| 17:24:45 | fugalh | ponders the possibility of installing gentoo when he gets a cpu upgrade |
| 17:25:37 | art | the only reason I went from debian to gentoo was so I could have all the eye-candy f Gnome2.0 and antialiased fonts. |
| 17:26:32 | fugalh | again, eye-candy = slow on my cpu :) |
| 17:27:32 | Jayce^ | go sourcemage ;D |
| 17:27:39 | Jayce^ | what cpu? |
| 17:27:47 | fugalh | amd k6 233mhz |
| 17:29:34 | Jayce^ | yeah, pretty slow then.. |
| 17:30:30 | fugalh | but I'm waiting for my 'new' amd k6 500mhz to drop in my 'new' mobo - both from ebay for a total of $35 with shipping |
| 17:31:00 | art | can't complain about that. |
| 17:31:16 | art | I'm running gentoo on my 400 Mhz powerpc processor. |
| 17:31:25 | art | I don't know how that translates. |
| 17:31:31 | art | to x86 |
| 17:31:41 | fugalh | me either. but probably at least as good as 500mhz |
| 17:31:43 | Jayce^ | depends on what your doing.. |
| 17:32:16 | Jayce^ | I've got smgl on a dual 466, a celeron 600 laptop, and a amd duron 900 server.. all run great.. |
| 17:32:38 | Jayce^ | heck, my laptop can start up kde 3 faster than my mandrake desktop can, and it's a nice system |
| 17:32:40 | fugalh | smgl = smeagol = gollum? |
| 17:32:59 | Jayce^ | hehe.. sourcemage linux (#sourcemage) |
| 17:33:08 | art | gotta go. |
| 17:33:13 | art | see ya'll |
| 17:33:17 | Jayce^ | it and gentoo are very similar projects.. except smgl is in bash, not python |
| 17:36:23 | fugalh | jayce^, have you used ruby? |
| 17:37:31 | Jayce^ | almost none.. |
| 17:41:59 | fugalh | i've heard it described as 'like pure oop perl' |
| 17:42:12 | fugalh | wondered what a perl guru's opinion on that is. :) |
| 17:45:02 | Jayce^ | kinda.. there is more to it than that.. |
| 17:45:16 | Jayce^ | personally, I think it's a bit more like python, with braces ;D |
| 17:48:46 | fugalh | is python the one that uses whitespace? |
| 17:48:54 | fugalh | wacky, that. |
| 17:48:58 | Jayce^ | yeah (blech).. |
| 17:49:22 | Jayce^ | for some reason every python user also believes that their code is somehow more reasonable because of that.. |
| 17:49:52 | fugalh | lol. if whitespace made readable code we could all run indent and go home. |
| 17:50:00 | Jayce^ | hehe.. |
| 18:34:23 | fugalh | anyone do java programming here? |
| 18:34:40 | byron | ouch, that'll teach me to join the room and then go to lunch |
| 18:38:44 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 18:38:51 | Jayce^ | I stay away from it.. |
| 18:39:14 | byron | where is ibot running from? |
| 18:39:42 | | i am "the" bot around |
| 18:39:42 | fugalh | ibot, who are you? |
| 18:39:55 | fugalh | harleybot, who are you? |
| 18:39:55 | HarleyBot | rumour has it i am HarleyBot, the baddest bot in town |
| 18:50:55 | tensai | fugalh: I program in Java |
| 18:51:38 | Bradipo | (~HarleyBot@208.186.180.38) : HarleyBot |
| 18:51:39 | HarleyBot | rumour has it i am HarleyBot, the baddest bot in town |
| 18:51:49 | Bradipo | It runs from that address. |
| 18:54:26 | fugalh | tensai, what platform? |
| 19:17:01 | fugalh | anyone know what to do about this: |
| 19:17:02 | fugalh | $ ./java -version |
| 19:17:04 | fugalh | Error: failed /home/fugalh/src/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/lib/i386/client/libjvm.so, because libstdc++-libc6.1-1.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 19:17:17 | fugalh | debian woody, downloaded the jdk from sun |
| 19:29:58 | Jayce^ | ok, so does #utah have an offical BZFlag server? |
| 19:33:03 | Jayce^ | hrmm. does bzflag have a dedicated server option, for machines that don't have opengl or anything? |
| 19:35:03 | | bzflag is TimRiker, CTO of Embedix, Inc. (Lineo) or a 3D internet multiplayer multiplatform (linux, irix, win32, etc) opensource opengl Battlezone capture the flag game that you must try at http://BZFlag.org/ |
| 19:35:03 | fugalh | what's bzflag? |
| 19:35:22 | | fugalh: what? |
| 19:35:22 | fugalh | ibot, i love you |
| 19:35:24 | Jayce^ | well, that makes that question easy.. |
| 19:35:30 | fugalh | bots are cool |
| 19:35:51 | fugalh | i'm going to write an evangelist bot one day to extol the virtues of debian, vim, and mutt |
| 19:37:05 | Jayce^ | I'll agree on the vim, but not the others.. |
| 19:40:49 | fugalh | heh, wouldn't be an evangelist bot if everyone agreed. :) |
| 19:42:40 | euler | is back. |
| 19:46:21 | BZFlag | July SLLUG will be booth planning. Whitmore library. Not on the web site yet. |
| 19:46:36 | Jayce^ | booth planning? |
| 19:46:55 | fugalh | is front |
| 19:47:08 | BZFlag | Jayce^: bzfs can be run almost anywhere. one.bzflag.org is a mips box with no video card. |
| 19:47:33 | Jayce^ | bzfs? k... I might just put one on plug.org then ;D |
| 19:48:19 | BZFlag | Jayce^: where is plug.org hosted? latency is the big issue for a good bzflag server. |
| 19:48:33 | Jayce^ | ponders installing slash::wiki on plug.org |
| 19:48:34 | BZFlag | "apt-get install bzflag-server" ;-) |
| 19:48:59 | Jayce^ | there shouldn't be a latency issue on it's current box.. when first set up is was just on my gateway, and had some NASTY connect times.. |
| 19:49:08 | fugalh | well I have a headless hp 9000 series, could it handle bzflag-server? |
| 19:49:09 | Jayce^ | BZFlag: nope... cast bzflag ;D |
| 19:49:39 | BZFlag | fugalh: sure. latency is the issue. If it's on a fast connection, a PDA could handle the server. |
| 19:49:46 | fugalh | t1 |
| 19:50:08 | fugalh | ping fugal.net |
| 19:50:17 | BZFlag | Jayce^: cast? what distro is that? gentoo? |
| 19:50:35 | Jayce^ | sourcemage (www.sourcemage.org or #sourcemage here) |
| 19:50:40 | BZFlag | mtr fugal.net ;-) |
| 19:51:11 | fugalh | hmm. apt didn't find it (did on my i386 but not hppa) |
| 19:52:05 | fugalh | E: Package libgl-dev has no installation candidate |
| 19:52:06 | fugalh | E: Failed to process build dependencies |
| 19:52:11 | fugalh | oh well |
| 19:52:30 | BZFlag | fugalh: bzflag depends on gl, bzflag-server does not. |
| 19:52:46 | Jayce^ | the sourcemage spell only does the full install, have to look up the config options for just the server and submit a server only option.. |
| 19:52:55 | fugalh | hmm. sounds like the debian package maintainer needs a bug report |
| 19:53:54 | BZFlag | hmm... looks like there is no version for hppa. hppa using gcc 3.1 or something? |
| 19:54:18 | Jayce^ | bzflag not like 3.1 ? |
| 19:54:40 | fugalh | not everything works yet on hppa |
| 19:54:52 | fugalh | it's a young platform - distributionally speaking of course |
| 19:54:55 | BZFlag | yeah, gcc 3.1 c++ changed somewhat. 1.8 builds with 3.1 now, but 1.7* might still have issues. |
| 19:55:24 | Jayce^ | k, sourcemage is doing the full switch to 3.1 right now... |
| 19:55:50 | BZFlag | ponders setting up his hppa system sometime. |
| 19:56:12 | fugalh | bzflag, I'll help ya. It's fun to install a system without ever attaching a monitor or keyboard to it |
| 19:56:35 | fugalh | or cdrom - network boot/install over serial line |
| 19:56:46 | BZFlag | I do that all the time with my mips box and other embedded systems, but I've never done hppa before. |
| 19:57:08 | Jayce^ | I should try that too.. got an *old* sparc box just sitting here.. can't get a monitor to work on it.. |
| 19:57:23 | Jayce^ | does have an external cd though.. |
| 19:58:12 | BZFlag | I've got an sgi, sparc, mac powerpc, hppa, etc. boxes here to setup when I get some "spare time". |
| 19:59:00 | Jayce^ | mmmm. I'd love the powerpc... I want to play with one of those more.. |
| 19:59:19 | Jayce^ | this sparc is barely that.. ;D old SparcStation 2 ;D like 75mhz |
| 20:00:09 | fugalh | discovers that he should read apt output more carefully. |
| 20:00:15 | Jayce^ | oh? |
| 20:00:21 | fugalh | it was a virtual package, I installed my choice and now it's building |
| 20:00:53 | fugalh | libgl-dev was a virtual package: it needed one of about 4 installed, I needed to choose one manually. |
| 20:01:22 | BZFlag | fugalh: hppa then? what gcc version? |
| 20:01:46 | fugalh | $ gcc --version |
| 20:01:46 | fugalh | 3.0.4 |
| 20:01:47 | Jayce^ | BZFlag: what are the config options for the server only? (don't have the source here to read myself yet) |
| 20:04:36 | BZFlag | 3.0? yuck. new features, but new bugs too. |
| 20:05:17 | BZFlag | Jayce^: http://bzflag.org/man-bzfs.html <- though that should be updated for 1.7e6 |
| 20:06:06 | fugalh | could probably get 3.1 if I upgraded to unstable |
| 20:06:18 | Jayce^ | I mean ./configure --server_only # or something like that.. |
| 20:06:23 | fugalh | but haven't had need to as of yet (apt-get source builds have worked so far) |
| 20:07:25 | Jayce^ | BZFlag: sourcemage is like gentoo in that it's all source, so your "spells" are files with the source location (urls) and configure options and such. |
| 20:11:07 | BZFlag | great, yald (yet another linux distribution) |
| 20:12:00 | BZFlag | Jayce^: ahh. there is not server only build at the moment. |
| 20:12:36 | BZFlag | Jayce^: though it does try to build the server first, so if the first error you get is missing GL headers, then your server built fine. |
| 20:17:01 | BZFlag | fugalh: status? |
| 20:18:13 | fugalh | building. it had trouble so I had to run make again |
| 20:18:18 | fugalh | we'll see... |
| 20:18:39 | fugalh | (this thing isn't much faster than my 233 k6 either. ;-) |
| 20:20:10 | fugalh | hmm. |
| 20:20:11 | fugalh | bzfs.cxx: In function `WorldInfo* defineWorldFromFile(const char*)': |
| 20:20:11 | fugalh | bzfs.cxx:2808: `nocreate' is not a member of type `std::basic_ios<char, |
| 20:20:12 | fugalh | std::char_traits<char> >' |
| 20:20:12 | fugalh | make[4]: *** [bzfs.o] Error 1 |
| 20:20:36 | fugalh | and I get lots of these: |
| 20:20:37 | fugalh | cc1plus: warning: -fnonnull-objects is no longer supported |
| 20:29:52 | Jayce^ | decides that he probably should start packing for oscon, since he leaves on thrusday AM |
| 20:32:37 | BZFlag | you can ignore the nonnull warnings. |
| 20:33:54 | tensai | fugalh: found your java problem. apt-get install libstdc++2.9-glibc2.1 |
| 20:34:27 | fugalh | tensai: thanks. Actually I found the solution on google (is irc making me lazy?) so it's already working |
| 20:34:36 | tensai | fugalh: I just asked apt |
| 20:36:18 | BZFlag | fugalh: remove the " | ios::nocreate" |
| 20:36:41 | fugalh | bzflag from what? |
| 20:36:52 | fugalh | line 2808? |
| 20:36:59 | BZFlag | bzfs.cxx:2808, yeah |
| 20:38:41 | fugalh | k. building again |
| 20:39:26 | BZFlag | I changed it in cvs. |
| 20:42:56 | fugalh | had to do a make clean, dpkg was confused. so it'll be a few... |
| 20:44:28 | BZFlag | ok |
| 20:45:53 | fugalh | got through bzfs.cxx ok... |
| 20:46:29 | BZFlag | fugalh: sweet. |
| 20:47:15 | BZFlag | you can run the server now. though I'm interested to know if the rest builds. Do you have a GL display? even remote glx should work. |
| 20:48:10 | fugalh | we'll see. It's still building, but I think i have a gl something-or-other |
| 20:50:11 | crowderb | hello all |
| 20:50:20 | fugalh | morning ben |
| 20:50:56 | crowderb | how's gdmxml coming along? |
| 20:51:18 | fugalh | loads of fun. I'm in the thick of it now |
| 20:51:33 | fugalh | feel like I'm making real progress. you on the list? |
| 20:51:35 | crowderb | yup |
| 20:51:40 | crowderb | i'm working at myfamily.com with bennett cookson |
| 20:51:50 | crowderb | (i'm on genealogyxml too) |
| 20:51:53 | fugalh | ah. cool. |
| 20:52:01 | fugalh | that list is something else. ;-) |
| 20:52:06 | crowderb | definitely :) |
| 20:52:33 | crowderb | i hope the standards committee actually happens |
| 20:52:57 | fugalh | if it gets buy-in from the people that count it would be sweet |
| 20:53:36 | crowderb | i'm not sure if ancestry.com will go with it; bennett's still talking with the powers that be, i think |
| 20:54:25 | fugalh | what was the last word anyway? I think I missed something with mail server probs |
| 20:54:35 | crowderb | about the standards committee? |
| 20:56:02 | crowderb | hey, do you use hjkl to move around in vim or do you use the arrow keys? |
| 20:58:47 | BZFlag | what's this standards thing? |
| 20:59:05 | fugalh | hjkl |
| 20:59:07 | BZFlag | wants a paf like web interface for all his family to be able to use. |
| 20:59:08 | crowderb | a committee in the works to produce a standard for storing genealogical data in xml |
| 20:59:24 | crowderb | do you keep your fingers on the home row keys or do you move them over so your index finger is on h? |
| 20:59:34 | fugalh | home-row |
| 20:59:48 | fugalh | crowderb: yeah, about the committee |
| 20:59:49 | BZFlag | perferably with access controls. and definitly with complete edit history / version control. |
| 20:59:51 | crowderb | good :) |
| 21:00:01 | crowderb | i didn't want to have to re-learn how to type :) |
| 21:00:29 | BZFlag | crowderb: all of gedcom functionality? what else? |
| 21:01:09 | crowderb | hmm... |
| 21:01:27 | crowderb | i'm not quite sure |
| 21:01:29 | fugalh | mostly it's aimed at data standards, specifically xml |
| 21:02:45 | crowderb | has anyone played around with texmacs? |
| 21:02:56 | crowderb | genealogy in xml is very, very cool (the idea, that is) |
| 21:03:07 | fugalh | bzflag: cp -p bin/bzflag debian/bzflag/usr/games/ |
| 21:03:07 | fugalh | cp: cannot stat `bin/bzflag': No such file or directory |
| 21:03:07 | fugalh | make: *** [bzflag] Error 1 |
| 21:03:49 | Jayce^ | crowder - home row |
| 21:03:51 | fugalh | have you seen gedml? basically a mapping of gedcom to xml, can use for xslt and stuff |
| 21:04:09 | crowderb | yup, i've seen gedml, genxml, geniml, etc. etc. etc. :) |
| 21:05:00 | fugalh | have you come across SAG? |
| 21:05:08 | crowderb | hmm, it looks slightly familiar, but i can't place it |
| 21:05:19 | fugalh | simple api for gedcom or something like that. think SAX |
| 21:05:24 | crowderb | i'm beginning to find that it's *much* faster not to use the arrows/pageup/etc. in vim |
| 21:05:29 | fugalh | it's kinda buried in the search pages |
| 21:05:30 | crowderb | did michael kay write it? |
| 21:05:55 | crowderb | i've got to retrain myself to use capslock-remapped-to-ctrl and ctrl-] for esc |
| 21:06:34 | BZFlag | fugalh: so bzflag did not build. must be another error earlier. try running make again. |
| 21:06:38 | fugalh | no, danny ayers |
| 21:06:50 | crowderb | ah, i think i *did* see it, a while ago |
| 21:08:18 | fugalh | he says it was before gedml and not quite done, it's on the back burner |
| 21:08:30 | fugalh | but the idea - event-based parsing of a gedcom file |
| 21:08:32 | fugalh | I like that. |
| 21:10:17 | crowderb | hmm, my brain must not be working right now :) |
| 21:10:23 | crowderb | event-based parsing meaning...? |
| 21:10:47 | crowderb | (i'm sure it would be quite clear if i'd had more sleep last night :)) |
| 21:10:52 | fugalh | familiar with SAX? |
| 21:11:22 | crowderb | a little bit |
| 21:11:33 | crowderb | i hadn't done much with xml until i started at ancestry.com a month ago |
| 21:12:08 | fugalh | familiar with the concept of callbacks? |
| 21:12:13 | crowderb | yup |
| 21:12:30 | BZFlag | so is there a distrbuted geneology app that runs on a web site that has access control and edit history that anyone would recommend? |
| 21:12:32 | fugalh | that's it - you implement the ContentHandler interface and it gets callbacks |
| 21:12:55 | fugalh | bzflag if you see one PLEASE let me know. if you want to write one, let me in on it. :) |
| 21:13:03 | BZFlag | I'm not interested in a pay server on the net. I might consider a free service, but I'm reluctant to post complete info on live people there. |
| 21:13:30 | fugalh | there's some commercial sites but I wouldn't consider any of them from what I've seen |
| 21:13:38 | BZFlag | I'd like one that allows interlinking to other databases. |
| 21:14:42 | crowderb | i haven't looked into online genealogy apps at all yet |
| 21:15:00 | crowderb | SAX sounds quite cool |
| 21:15:28 | Jayce^ | BZFlag, dont' bother looking into onegreatfamily.com |
| 21:15:48 | Jayce^ | it has some of those features.. I used to work there.. |
| 21:16:02 | fugalh | growls |
| 21:16:15 | Jayce^ | windows only, and the guy who runs it is not somebody you wan tot work with.. |
| 21:16:24 | Jayce^ | fugalh: uhhh.. what for? |
| 21:16:26 | fugalh | I found all my private info available there, so sent a polite email asking them to please take it out |
| 21:16:41 | Jayce^ | fugalh: they probably didn't. |
| 21:16:45 | fugalh | all i got was the standard 'customer service' runaround |
| 21:17:03 | fugalh | about how it was the people who submitted it, they didn't have control, etc.. bull |
| 21:17:22 | Jayce^ | when they started, some of us were building their site.. freebsd boxen, mod_perl.. but the owner decided to have a hissy fit, and wanted to sell to microsoft.. so out we went.. |
| 21:17:40 | fugalh | :) |
| 21:18:30 | Jayce^ | what's really sad, is the model and idea were great. but then the guy running it wanted it windows only.. |
| 21:19:16 | fugalh | the idea perhaps was good, but I wasn't thrilled with all the automatic merging. |
| 21:19:21 | fugalh | didn't seem too thorough to me |
| 21:19:36 | fugalh | i have a hard enough time merging information from my own family members |
| 21:20:23 | Jayce^ | it was orignially not going to be fully automatic.. was going to have more revisioning stuff.. then they were having trouble implementing it.. |
| 21:20:54 | fugalh | most likely because of the data model... if they (like almost everyone) started out with GEDCOM it is very difficult |
| 21:21:12 | fugalh | hence the GDM (genealogical data model from GENTECH) and hence my project gdmxml |
| 21:21:19 | Jayce^ | no, they have an internal model... |
| 21:21:35 | fugalh | something along those lines is really necessary to have a quality revision-control system |
| 21:22:22 | crowderb | yes, the GDM is a *large* step forward |
| 21:22:29 | crowderb | i've been quite impressed with it |
| 21:23:28 | scott | gdm is the login thing isn't it? how do you improve a login screen? |
| 21:23:32 | crowderb | other gdm :) |
| 21:23:34 | fugalh | lol |
| 21:23:58 | fugalh | http://gentech.org/gdm |
| 21:24:07 | fugalh | word format, alas. :( |
| 21:24:19 | scott | so what's the other gdm? |
| 21:24:26 | fugalh | Gentech Data Model |
| 21:24:27 | scott | nm, page came up |
| 21:24:49 | fugalh | http://www.gentech.org/gdm/ |
| 21:24:55 | scott | ahh, the boring gdm :) |
| 21:25:40 | fugalh | but speaking of the linux gdm... |
| 21:26:08 | crowderb | anyone able to get a screenshot of the gnome 2 gdm? |
| 21:26:11 | fugalh | and kdm... I want to source a file a la .xsession before/after the gdm startup script (gnome,kde,fluxbox,whatever) |
| 21:26:18 | crowderb | i haven't installed g2 yet but the new gdm sounds pretty cool |
| 21:26:28 | crowderb | i've tried doing that (.xsession) with no success |
| 21:26:42 | fugalh | .xsession isn't sourced. and that's ok, but I want another file to be sourced, dangit |
| 21:26:44 | fugalh | ;-) |
| 21:26:47 | crowderb | i ended up putting my stuff in /usr/share/apps/switchdesk/Xclients.fluxbox |
| 21:26:51 | crowderb | which is not the way i want it to be... |
| 21:27:07 | crowderb | but it works and i'm going to be in the mtc in a month so i've been too lazy to fix it :) |
| 21:27:11 | fugalh | yeah, I end up writing an .xsession file with my wm of choice and using the xsession session from gdm instead |
| 21:27:15 | tensai | fugalh: won't .bashrc be sourced? |
| 21:27:19 | fugalh | nope |
| 21:27:29 | fugalh | nor .profile | .bash_profile |
| 21:27:35 | fugalh | but they are sourced on ssh login |
| 21:27:43 | BZFlag | http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpgedview/ looks interesting. |
| 21:27:52 | tensai | fugalh: maybe .source-this-dangit would work? |
| 21:28:13 | fugalh | :) |
| 21:29:07 | BZFlag | look for Xsession and add souring there. ;-) |
| 21:30:10 | crowderb | hmm, http://www.albany.net/~anthonyw/mhonarc/ looks like it'll be useful in converting the uug archives to mbox |
| 21:30:22 | fugalh | mhonarc is nice and easy to use |
| 21:32:22 | tensai | fugalh: it looks like the Debian GDM session scripts do source files, just different ones each time. Gnome does .gnomerc, KDE has .kde2rc and Xsession has .xsession |
| 21:32:26 | fugalh | that php one looks cool |
| 21:32:49 | tensai | fugalh: I don't know about others like WM since I don't use it |
| 21:33:07 | fugalh | that's useful, but I'd rather have a general one - I usually go either windowmaker or fluxbox |
| 21:33:32 | tensai | fugalh: you could make symlinks, or create them and have them include another |
| 21:33:40 | crowderb | ~/.Xclients doesn't work either, sadly |
| 21:35:16 | fugalh | no, but I haven't looked closely |
| 21:36:27 | BZFlag | crowderb: have you looked at the Xsession file? I normally edit mine and at least source /etc/profile |
| 21:36:48 | crowderb | BZFlag: ~/.Xsession? |
| 21:36:49 | fugalh | now there's a good idea. source /etc/profile from Xsession |
| 21:37:13 | BZFlag | crowderb: no. you are using gdm? does it have /etc/X11/gdm/* files? |
| 21:37:13 | fugalh | and $HOME/.profile too I think. That's what I'll do. |
| 21:38:11 | BZFlag | fugalh: yeah, I add the same rules as a login shell. source /etc/profile then ~/.bash_profile or ~/.profile if one of them exists. |
| 21:39:36 | fugalh | are we the only ones with a clue? why isn't there something to do this already? |
| 21:39:46 | crowderb | Yes, there are files in /etc/X11/gdm/* :) |
| 21:39:55 | crowderb | what happened to the good old .xinitrc days? |
| 21:40:38 | BZFlag | .xinitrc should be handled as well. ;-) |
| 21:40:57 | fugalh | i remember when I tried to do this stuff the first time on HP-UX |
| 21:41:03 | fugalh | couldn't keep my .[xX] files straight |
| 21:41:05 | BZFlag | crowderb: and is there an Xsession or similar in /etc/X11/gdm/ ? edit that |
| 21:42:00 | fugalh | all these in /etc/X11/gdm/Sessions : Debian fluxbox Gnome KDE Xsession |
| 21:42:19 | fugalh | "Debian" is broken for WindowMaker |
| 21:43:19 | fugalh | for gdm it looks to me like if you put something to source your files in /etc/X11/gdm/Init/Default that would work |
| 21:43:21 | crowderb | No, there isn't an Xsession in /etc/X11/gdm |
| 21:43:22 | crowderb | I'm on Red Hat 7.3 |
| 21:44:13 | tensai | fugalh: I don't think so. That's for while gdm is running. It'll restart the X server when you log in. |
| 21:44:54 | tensai | fugalh: maybe PreSession/Default? |
| 21:46:00 | fugalh | ahh yes, I think you're right |
| 21:46:03 | BZFlag | good/bad experience with other online databses? ancestry.com? others? |
| 21:46:32 | fugalh | bzflag: no experience really. mostly because nobody's come up with an offer that i've seen that entices me |
| 21:46:52 | BZFlag | free and secure is what I'm after. |
| 21:49:21 | fugalh | me too |
| 21:51:52 | crowderb | i think ancestry.com will remain commercial, sadly |
| 21:55:23 | fugalh | what was .xinitrc for anyway? |
| 21:55:46 | fugalh | are .xinitrc and .xsession mutually exclusive? |
| 21:56:23 | crowderb | i think .xinitrc was for when you started X manually (startx) |
| 22:00:08 | BZFlag | crowderb: but you can create your own database and ancestry.com for free, no? |
| 22:00:55 | fugalh | cyall |
| 22:05:23 | crowderb | BZFlag: i think so :) |
| 22:05:34 | crowderb | i don't know very much about it, to tell the truth |
| 22:07:10 | BZFlag | http://freshmeat.net/projects/geneweb/ looks like it has potential. |
| 22:12:21 | crowderb | looks pretty cool. wow, it's powered by ocaml. :) |
| 22:14:46 | crowderb | seeya |
| 22:16:07 | euler | Heading for home. Catch all you Utah folks later. |