IRC log for #uphpu on 20070502

00:09.36Lone_Wanderer~pastebin
00:10.06jbotpastebin is probably a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try  http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well
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14:26.59optikalFor CSS peoples... http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/05/01/reset-reloaded/
14:27.00optikalFYI, its muuch better than Yahoo's one
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14:42.07wpsmeyer's website is awful
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15:31.30mgearyhas anyone here ever tried to make a self-extracting zip file with PHP?
15:47.08thebigdognope
15:47.45mgearywell fat lot o' good you are
15:49.32PoeticIntensity~buy mgeary a self-extracting zip file
15:49.34jbotACTION goes to S-Mart and gets a dozen a self-extracting zip files for mgeary
15:49.39mgearywoot
15:49.47PoeticIntensity;-)
15:50.00mgearyi've gotta change the handling of that ~buy action. it's too hard to make work
15:50.24mgearythe whole "dozen" thing making it plural is cumbersome
15:51.12thebigdog~boot mgeary
15:51.14jbotACTION inconspicously shuffles over to get a straight line across mgeary to the window above the dumpster, takes aim, and punts mgeary out to where he belongs!
15:51.29thebigdogty jbot
15:51.30PoeticIntensitywoah.
15:51.35PoeticIntensitysuch violence.
15:51.38PoeticIntensityis it really necessary?
15:51.39thebigdogggggggggggggggggggggooooooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
15:51.48PoeticIntensityLOL
15:51.59PoeticIntensityI see you've been in South America before, eh', thebigdog ?
15:52.07thebigdogyes
15:52.18PoeticIntensitythe whole "goal" thing is freakin' crazy...
15:52.26PoeticIntensityI was there during the '94 Copa Mundial.
15:52.30PoeticIntensityin-freaking-sane.
15:52.35thebigdogyeah...ive seen some big standiums down there
15:52.45PoeticIntensitypeople go NUTS for futbol.
15:52.56PoeticIntensityway more crazy than we are for baseball.
15:53.02thebigdogive been in cities that close down for the games
15:53.08PoeticIntensitypretty much.
15:53.30PoeticIntensitynobody goes anywhere.....  TVs are glowin' and people are rantin' 'n' ravin'.
15:53.51PoeticIntensityheck.... We were walkin' around, and people couldn't care less about us being in their home with them.
15:54.01PoeticIntensityWe could have robbed them dry - as long as we didn't touch the TV.
15:54.26PoeticIntensitygoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllll!
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16:16.07mgearyanyone know if there's a(n easy) way to include high-ascii characters in a plaintext email?
16:16.17mgearyspecifically the © symbol
16:22.57Lone_Wandererare there soccer games going on?
16:27.39tierramgeary: I'd imagine it just takes using the right character encoding
16:35.55macnewboldmgeary: if you could put them in, you'd probably get varied results with them in different mail readers. A lot of places will say (c) instead or Copyright. Or you could try © and hope their mail reader interprets the html
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16:37.21Lone_Wandererhttp://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/online_communities.png - superbly awesome
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16:52.03Utah_Davehey you css/designer pros, what do you think of this?
16:52.04Utah_Davehttp://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/05/01/reset-reloaded/
16:52.31Utah_DaveDo you think resetting all those CSS defaults is useful?
16:55.25wpsI don't
16:55.33tierra08:26 <+optikal> For CSS peoples... http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/05/01/reset-reloaded/                                                  cycokilr
16:55.36tierra08:26 <+optikal> FYI, its muuch better than Yahoo's one
16:55.43wpswhat are they trying to achieve?
16:55.53wpswhat's the problem that they are trying to fix with that?
16:55.58optikalUtah_Dave: Its very useful.
16:56.09optikalwps: Crossbrowser/platform compatabilities.
16:56.12tierrawps: it's so you don't confuse default styles between browsers
16:56.29synictierra: /nicklist off
16:56.40optikalVery important when you must ensure you site looks identical on all browsers/platforms
16:56.55tierrasynic: I know, I've got a binding for it too, but I forget to hit it before C&P
16:57.25wpsI guess I'd rather make a few adjustments for the quirks then set everything to zero and have to manually build it all back out
16:57.27wpswhat a pain in the butt
16:57.31wpsdefaults are there for a reason
16:58.20tierrawps: that style in particular aims to not just reset everything to zero, but to compromise on a single default setting
16:58.45tierrahttp://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/04/18/reset-reasoning/
16:58.51optikalwhereas I'd much rather specify values for my css attributes and know that those, and only those are applied to my elements and that every browser will determine it the same way.. I don't have to go through the site and look at everything in 10 different browsers and scan the site with a fine tooth comb
17:00.21macnewboldsome of the incompatibilities come from different _interpretations_ of the css settings rather than different settings though, especially with MSIE, which can't seem to understand how width and height should be measured relative to padding, borders, and margins
17:00.59optikalmacnewbold: hehe, got to love their box model
17:01.14optikalBut yeah, CSS is definitely a crazy game.. the reset is just one thing that makes my life easier.
17:01.28optikalKeeping in mind all the browsers quirks/bugs/interpretations is always fun hehe
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21:55.00Lone_WandererWow, is anyone still here?
21:55.21mgeary_me
21:58.21_psychic_?
21:58.38beandognope.
21:58.59Lone_WandererI was going to vent about my co-worker, but I found someone else to vent to who's not a potential future employee ;)
21:59.14beandogIts not me is it?
21:59.20beandogI put on deodorant today.
21:59.32beandogand I like dogs.
21:59.36beandogHow could anyone not like me?
21:59.49Lone_WandererNo, it's the person who sits behind and to the left of me.
22:00.10Lone_WandererWho is an English major and just told me to tweak some JavaScript code to do something server side.
22:00.14beandogoh, well as long as its not me I can sleep at night
22:00.15Lone_Wandererlol, Jason did you just get up to see who sits there?
22:00.33Lone_WandererAs soon as I typed that I see Jason's head pop in real quick.
22:00.57beandoglol
22:02.52Lone_WandererIt's just annoying to be told to do something, and then when I do exactly what I was told, to be told that it's all wrong.
22:03.56beandoghmm
22:03.58beandogsorry man
22:09.10Lone_WandererShe just told me to use javascript code on the server.
22:12.49bradymgood luck with that ;)
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22:21.03mgeary_so, no one here remembers LiveWire?
22:21.10Lone_WandererThe name sounds familiar
22:21.11mgeary_it was from Netscape. Serverside Javascript
22:21.14Lone_Wandererbut I can't place its face.
22:21.50mgeary_is this the same person you had that email exchange with regarding your email validation?
22:22.07Lone_WandererThis is the exact same issue, in fact.
22:22.25Lone_WandererShe finally said "Well, they have a popup on this other form that validates the email, just use that."  So I did.
22:23.02Lone_WandererAnd today she comes back saying "Why do you have a popup checking their email, but the other field's errors show up when the page reloads?  You need to have the interface be consistent."
22:31.51tierratechnically speaking, you should always have server side validation whether you have client side validation or not, and just add client-side validation when you want to avoid page reloads, responsiveness, and just overall more convenient checking
22:32.01beandogjavascript validation is useless
22:32.01Lone_WandererIndeed.
22:32.11beandogjavascript is worthless
22:32.14beandogwere all gonna die!
22:32.35mgeary_not *worthless*
22:32.38Lone_WandererHowever, the details of our contract with the customer in question precludes the use of our standard email validation code, and I didn't (until just now) have permission to develop a new one.
22:32.47Lone_Wandererwith razor blades in the candy, right?
22:33.06Lone_WandererOr botulism toxin?
22:33.22mgeary_i'd guess that 90+% of all validation actually happens in javascript. it's just foolish to *rely* on JS for validation. that's one thing i like about QuickForm. it gives you client-side and server-side with one rule
22:34.37Lone_WandererIs QuickForm the PEAR class?
22:34.40mgeary_yep
22:34.49beandogpear++
22:35.27Lone_WandererI've used that before, it was pretty awesome at the time.
22:35.46Lone_WandererAnd I can only imagine that it's become significantly more awesome in the interim.  I should re-look at it.
22:35.50mgeary_yeah. QF2 is supposedly ready, but there are no docs on it, so i'm staying with QF1 for now
22:36.09Lone_WandererI was just thinking the other day that we need some kind of easy form-creation thing here, because creating and validating forms is a good portion of my work.
22:36.10mgeary_i've been through several trenches with QF, so if you encounter issues, bring them here
22:36.17Lone_Wandererexcellent, thanks
22:36.51mgeary_i've actually got a mini-framework that integrates pretty seamlessly with QuickForm
22:36.59Lone_Wandererawesome
22:37.00mgeary_has built-in ActiveRecords
22:37.00beandogLone_Wanderer: Ive got one I wrote
22:37.07beandognot as cool as mgeary_'s
22:37.17beandogbut I can show you my class if you like
22:37.25beandogit makes it extremely simple to do just that.
22:38.34Lone_Wandererthat'd be great
22:38.52Lone_WandererI've been thinking that Code Greene needs to have some kind of standard library
22:39.04Lone_Wandererthat people can add to and/or document when there's downtime
22:39.19Lone_Wandererbecause there's a lot of good code in our various projects, but it's not collected anywhere
22:41.02beandogtoties
22:41.05beandogand we need to use svn!
22:41.06beandog:D
22:41.12Lone_WandererWhy svn?
22:41.25Lone_WandererI guess the revision history would be nice.
22:41.27mgeary_svn++
22:41.30Lone_WandererAnd rolling back stuff would be heaven.
22:41.30beandoguh, because thats what I know best?
22:41.34beandogand its better than CVS
22:41.40Lone_WandererMaybe I should use svn on my own machine.
22:41.45beandogand trac rules the world
22:41.49Lone_WandererYou can do it on your own, right?
22:41.53mgeary_yep
22:41.56beandogyah
22:42.06mgeary_here's a hot tip: Dreamhost offers 300GB hosting and svn hosting
22:42.09Lone_WandererJust install it on Tahiti and use it yourself, and other people could keep doing their thing?  Or would that break horribly?
22:42.14beandogwoots!
22:42.20beandogmgeary_: only if you use postgres though
22:42.25beandogI have my standards, yanno.
22:42.27mgeary_you could show me the error of my ways
22:42.34beandogNot that we don't here, so I dunno how that one worked out
22:42.47beandoger, not that we do
22:42.59beandogLone_Wanderer: you can easily do it per project
22:43.09beandogor per directory
22:43.16Lone_Wanderercool
22:43.18beandogas in, directory <--> project
22:43.21Lone_Wandererright
22:43.28mgeary_anyway, this Dreamhost account: 300 GB for a year for THIRTY bucks!
22:43.31mgeary_beat that!
22:43.33beandogmgeary_: really?
22:43.34beandognice.
22:43.38mgeary_yep
22:43.42beandog:D
22:43.44beandog$30/mo
22:43.45mgeary_plus, they give you a gig every week
22:43.51Lone_Wandererbeandog: where?
22:43.51mgeary_beandog: really? $30 for a colo?
22:43.55Lone_WandererI've been thinking about getting a colo
22:43.58mgeary_we're paying $130/mo
22:44.00beandoghttp://serverpronto.com/
22:44.04beandogIts an Athlon though
22:44.06Lone_WandererWhat does xmission charge?
22:44.10beandogbut its the speediest little Athlon I've ever seen.
22:44.15beandogThey give you the box + the colo
22:44.21Lone_WandererOh, you don't get to have control over the hardware?
22:44.27beandogNo, but who cares.
22:44.32mgeary_so it's not really colo
22:44.34mgeary_it's a dedicated server
22:44.37Lone_Wandererwell that's the point of colo
22:44.41beandogyah
22:44.42beandogwhatever.
22:44.43Lone_Wandererthat you can do what you want with the hardware
22:44.44beandogjerks.
22:44.45mgeary_heh
22:44.47beandogI'm happy. :)
22:44.50mgeary_beandog: do you get root access?
22:44.59beandogmgeary_: yah
22:45.06beandogIts like a VFS
22:45.12beandogexcept you get a *real* server
22:45.13mgeary_VPS?
22:45.14beandogand its cheaper.
22:45.19mgeary_yeah, that's a great price
22:45.23beandog:)
22:45.25beandogYah
22:45.26mgeary_i'll have to remember that
22:45.29beandogim running wonkabar.org on it
22:45.32beandogand spaceparanoids.org
22:45.33beandogand nephi.org
22:45.37beandogThey put Gentoo on there
22:45.39beandogwhee!
22:45.46beandogThey can image about a dozen linux os's for me
22:45.49beandoger, you.
22:52.31beandogmgeary_, Lone_Wanderer : http://wonkabar.org/archives/242
22:52.35beandogmy initial setup
22:53.12beandoghttp://spaceparanoids.org/phpsysinfo/
22:53.48Lone_WandererI just had the weirdest idea ever
22:54.00Lone_Wanderercould you run two OS's on a single machine at the same time?
22:54.06beandogsure
22:54.08beandogits called ...
22:54.09beandogsomething.
22:54.16beandogThats how VPS's work
22:54.17Lone_WandererNot dual booting.
22:54.19beandoguser mode linux.
22:54.20beandogI know.
22:54.41thebigdogUML is what many refer it as
22:55.05beandogthere ya go
22:55.08beandogthebigdog++
22:55.11Lone_WandererBut that's a single OS that sets up VM's and "hosts" the other OS's, isn't it?
22:55.56thebigdogyes there is an os underneath that manages the uml
22:56.15Lone_WandererYeah, what I mean is having two OS's run simultaneously, both sharing direct access to the hardware.
22:56.39Lone_WandererI don't think it's possible with the BIOS's that are available.
22:56.49thebigdogyou have uml in the middle
22:57.05thebigdogthat manages the direct access from the os'es
22:57.06thebigdoglike vmware
22:57.20Lone_WandererRight, but that's one OS managing two others.
22:57.35thebigdogyes one os will run all the others
22:57.40Lone_WandererI'm talking two OS's running at the same level with nothing between or below them.
22:58.00thebigdogthat would not work
22:58.12Lone_WandererNot given available BIOS's.
22:58.17Lone_WandererYou could make it work.
22:58.36thebigdogthat would be extremely complicated
22:58.41Lone_WandererYeah it would.
22:58.45thebigdogimagine the interrupts alone would kill you
22:58.46Lone_WandererBut it'd be Extremely Awesome too.
22:58.58thebigdogif you think so
22:58.59beandogyou can run near native speeds with vmware anyway
22:59.08Lone_WandererThe Awesome factor increases linearly with the Difficulty.
22:59.28Lone_WandererThat's not the point! :{
22:59.42thebigdogi would rather have a monitor that could handle multiple computers without switching the screen
22:59.51Lone_WandererThat'd be cool too!
23:00.23beandogKVMs are fun.
23:00.24thebigdogi have seen computers that run two of everything
23:01.00thebigdogbeandog, but imagine the monitor as the widget master and then you can have widgets from different computers
23:01.20thebigdogkinda like ssh x11 but way cooler
23:01.23beandogah
23:01.24beandoggotcha.
23:01.37beandogI like Xnest a little better, actually.
23:01.49thebigdogyeah but take that a step further
23:02.10beandoghwo much does a decent widescreen one cost anyway
23:02.41thebigdogyou can get a good 19" for pretty good price
23:03.00beandoghmm
23:03.01beandogyoure right.
23:03.14mgeary_i got a 22" for less than $300 in January
23:03.15thebigdogyou could probably get a 20" for decent too
23:03.22mgeary_i actually got 4 of them (for work)
23:03.26thebigdogi need a new one
23:03.47_psychic_I got a free 17" yesterday. :)
23:03.47beandogI should check craigslist
23:03.56_psychic_freecycle
23:04.10beandogbah.
23:05.09thebigdoghttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824116075
23:05.14thebigdog20" wide
23:05.18thebigdogi like viewsonic
23:05.43beandogme too
23:05.46mgeary_these acers have worked out great
23:06.04thebigdogmgeary_, have any issues at all with them?
23:06.08mgeary_nope
23:06.17mgeary_they've gotten fabulous reviews, too
23:07.08thebigdogman i might pick up that viewsonic tonight
23:07.16mgeary_http://www.amazon.com/Acer-AL2216Wbd-22-LCD-Monitor/dp/B000HAR8UI/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/002-5839359-3060055?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1178147192&sr=8-2
23:07.18thebigdogi wonder what the wife will say if i just get it
23:07.19beandogIm really tempted, too
23:07.21beandogthanks for the link
23:07.27thebigdognp
23:07.30thebigdogi thought they would be more
23:07.31Lone_WandererIt depends on whether Kristy will agree to date me or not.
23:07.40beandogI like how prices are coming down
23:07.41thebigdogmgeary_, great link
23:07.41beandogvery nice
23:07.47mgeary_yep
23:07.59thebigdog22" that is nice
23:08.04mgeary_i've found them for much cheaper than amazon
23:08.15beandogLone_Wanderer: what size are ours, do you know?
23:08.32Lone_WandererNo clue.
23:08.56Lone_WandererBut I really like them.
23:09.01beandogbtw, anyone wanna buy an amd64?
23:09.04beandogI have like three I'm not using at home.
23:09.10thebigdoghttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824116076
23:09.10beandogor at least one.
23:09.34Lone_Wandererbeandog: is it just the processor, or... what all comes with it?
23:09.40Lone_WandererI'm considering building a new computer.
23:09.41beandogdecked out, baby
23:09.50Lone_WandererHmm.  What are the details?
23:09.54beandogHmm
23:09.55beandogsecond.
23:10.09beandogmeh, I cant tell right now.
23:10.20beandogIll have to get back to you on that one.
23:11.04beandogwhat are you looking for?  its an older one (these days)
23:11.08beandogabout a year old
23:11.21Lone_WandererI don't care, I just play WoW.
23:11.40beandogyou should get a dell with ubuntu on there
23:11.46*** join/#uphpu VeryHF (n=mark@166-70-102-216.ip.xmission.com)
23:12.42beandogGet a Dell without Vista on there
23:12.55thebigdogtime to head out
23:12.58thebigdogbbq time
23:13.01thebigdogand then some wow
23:13.04beandogseeyas
23:13.10beandogyou crazy wow addicts.
23:13.14beandogplay some Baldur's Gate 2!
23:13.17beandogthat'll put hair on your chests.
23:13.21thebigdogwow all the way
23:15.18*** join/#uphpu synico (n=synic@66.236.72.104.ptr.us.xo.net)
23:15.26Lone_WandererDid I tell you that I'm thinking of joining the Guard, beandog?
23:15.32beandogYou mentioned it the other day
23:15.39beandogI think that's cool
23:16.21Lone_WandererI'm debating between special forces (two years of training) and... anything else (one or two months of training).
23:16.30Utah_DaveLone_Wanderer: what MOS do you want?
23:16.40Lone_Wanderer18D (special forces medic)
23:16.45beandogcant you decide to do special forces later?
23:17.20Lone_WandererI imagine you could, yeah.
23:17.38Lone_WandererBut you can also enlist directly into it.
23:18.32beandogHmm
23:18.38beandoghey mindjuju
23:18.57beandogIm just thinking you might wanna see how much you like it before committing so long-term
23:19.34Lone_WandererYeah, good point.
23:19.41Lone_WandererWhat I really want to do is fly a blackhawk.
23:20.17Lone_WandererWhich doesn't require special forces anything.  I just think it'd be awesome to be able to say that I'm in the special forces.
23:20.33beandog:)
23:33.39PoeticIntensitybeandog.  I'm interested in your box.  Got any details?
23:33.52PoeticIntensityI'm gonna need one to write music on.
23:33.57PoeticIntensityI've already got all the HDs.
23:34.02PoeticIntensityand a case.
23:34.08PoeticIntensityI thin,.
23:34.09PoeticIntensityhtieks.e
23:34.10PoeticIntensitythink.
23:34.24PoeticIntensityeon't ya use7t loves 8yit when
23:34.30PoeticIntensityzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
23:34.43synicohrmm.
23:34.50synicoI wonder if his keyboard battery ran out
23:34.53beandogthat boy has issues.
23:35.12beandog:)
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23:47.29mindjujuyeah, sounds likely
23:49.00beandogmindjuju: have you seen the invisible?
23:49.19mindjujuhaven't
23:49.26mindjujusay the reviews for it, though
23:49.29beandogI went and saw it last night
23:49.31mindjujuthey weren't nice to the movie at all
23:49.34mindjujuwas it anygood?
23:49.44beandogIt wasnt what I was expecting
23:49.50beandoga drama, more than a thriller / mystery
23:49.54beandogin fact, it wasnt a mystery at all.
23:49.58mindjujuyup, that's what everybody was saying
23:50.05beandogbut I love dramas, so.
23:50.06beandog++
23:50.12beandoga litttle graphic for me
23:50.16mindjujuthat it was like this dude was trying to find out who killed him, according to the trailers
23:50.21mindjujubut the movie wasn't about that at all
23:50.23beandogwell thats the thing
23:50.23mgeary_later folks
23:50.25beandoguh
23:50.33mindjujulater mgeary
23:50.51beandogseeya man
23:51.08*** part/#uphpu mgeary_ (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49)

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